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A71013 Origo protestantium, or, An answer to a popish manuscript (of N.N.'s.) that would fain make the Protestant Catholick religion bear date at the very time when the Roman popish commenced in the world wherein Protestancy is demonstrated to be elder than popery : to which is added, a Jesuits letter with the answer thereunto annexed / by John Shaw ... Shaw, John, 1614-1689.; N. N. 1677 (1677) Wing S3032C; ESTC R20039 119,193 138

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Popish Fundamentals viz. The Popes Supremacy over all General Councils and the Infallibility of his judicial Sentence in causes of Faith was so far from being acknowledged Catholick and Apostolick Doctrine that it was condemned for Heresy in that Age. The Council of (g) Sess quarta quinta confirmed by Martin V. Ep. Synod Conc. Basil ad omn. Christ p. 143. Constance determined the power of a General Council to be above the Pope which determination was judicially passed for that all the publick Acts amongst which this was entered were Conciliarily Ratified as appears by the Council of Basil writing to Pope Eugenius For when the Fathers there assembled heard that the Pope intended to dissolve them to prevent that Project they thus writ to him It is not likely that Pope Eugenius will any way think to dissolve this Council seeing it is against the Decrees of the Council of Constance which both his predecessor Martin V. and himself had approved And indeed if that Decree was not Conciliarily concluded Martin V. had not been true Pope for in pursuance of this Decree the other contesting Popes were deposed and he created (h) John Gerson who was present at Council upon every occasion in his writings did approve and extol that Decree which he would not have done unless he had known it to be Conciliarily determined Ep. Juliani Cardin. ad Eugen. p. 76. inter opera Aen. Sylvii After this the Council of Basil (i) Confirmed by Eugenius with his Letters read in Council Sess 16. from which the Fathers concluded decret quinque conclus p. 96. his Pontificial Ratification affirmed Decree Sess 33. affirmed the Decree superadding this their sence of it that what was decreed was a (k) Ep. Conc. Bas p. 144. Truth of Catholick Faith that he who gainsaid it was to be accounted an Heretick and that the Universal Church ever till then had embraced it and that so constantly and conformely that never any learned (l) Infin Sess 45. Conclus 5. in decret quinque Concil p. 96. man doubted thereof It is true endeavours were soon used to invalidate it but all the then famous Vniversities (m) Orthuinus Gratius in fasco rer expet p. 240. asserted it and so did many excellent men far and near who were famous for their parts and Piety in that Generation as Card. (n) Lib. 2. de concor Cathol lib. 17. 20. Cusan a Belgian Joh. de (o) Lib. de Auth. Gen. Conc. p. 88. Turrecr a Spaniard Card. (p) C. significasti extrav de electione Panorm a Sicilian and Anton. Rossel (q) Monar part 2. c. 15. part 3. c. 21. an Italian To make sure work if possible against all opposition about four years after the determination of this Council the Pragmatical Sanction which was received saith (r) De Benefic lib. 5.11 By the consent of the whole Clergy and all the Peers of Faanee Joh. Marius lib. de Schis c. c. 28. Duarenus with the applause of all good men was established by Charles the seventh at Bourges for the Confirmation (Å¿) Gagninus annal Franc. l. 10. Bin. Not. in Conc. Bitur ex Gagnino of that Decree Pope Pius the second was hereat much perplexed and laboured with Lewis the eleventh to have it annulled but all in vain for the Parliament at Paris crossed the Popes design by exhibiting a Book to the King which convinced him that the Popes project if it took effect would be in an high degree prejudicial to the State For that if the Pragmatical Sanction were not maintained there would yearly be transported to Rome (t) Defens Paris Curiae pro libert Eccles Gall. adversus Rom. aulam num 67. inde above a thousand thousand Crowns and that the Pope hath had for three years last past for Archbishopricks and Bishopricks above an hundred thousand Crowns for Abbies an hundred and twenty thousand for other Dignities an hundred thousand and for Benefices five and twenty hundred thousand by which means the Goldsmiths Shops were drawn so dry that none but such as made Puppets and (u) Ib. num 71. Childrens Gaudies dwelt in them But here the matter rested not for not long after Lewis the twelfth assembled a Council at Tours (w) Genebr lib. 4. Chron. omn. Epist. Gall. Chron. Mattaei Ann. 1510. consisting of all the Bishops in France and very learned men in which it was resolved the Pragmatical Sauction should be kept inviolably About this time Julius the second was mounted on the Papal Chair who resolved by all means right or wrong to erect and settle the Papacy at his Election he was sworn to summon a General Council which Popes utterly dislike and being after required to remember his Oath and observe the constitution of the Council of Constance viz. That after the determination (x) Concil Constan Sess 39. Oct. 9. Ann. 1417. Caran p. 840. of ten years a new Council should be appointed Pontifice vel non valente vel non (y) Caran p. 884. volente saith my Author The Pope either not able or unwilling which is more likely utterly refused whereupon certain Cardinals at the motion of several Bishops called a Council at Pisa which was favoured by the (z) Sabel Onuphr in vit Jul. II. Emperour and Christian King The Pope being much straitned makes use of his Keys and the Sword which he pretended St. Peter and St. Paul left to his management in Chief whereupon he forthwith excomunicated the King of France and procured Ferdinand King of Arragon to joyn in Arms with him against the French King and other Adherents to the Pisan Council and after maintained a bloody (a) At Ravenna a City of Romaniola in which many thousands were slain Caran p. 884. 885. Lanquet in his Chron. ad Ann. 1512. saith it was Fought on Easter-day and the Pope was discomfited with the loss of 1600 of his Souldiers Battle against them in which many thousands were slain Historians (b) Speculum Pontific per Steph. Szegidinum p. 105. and a Spaniard in the lives of the Popes collected out of Dr. Hascar Friar Joh. de Pineda c. number those that died in this Quarrel within the space of seven years to Two hundred thousand But here the Popes fury for the Man was more enraged by N. N's good leave than ever Luther was stopped not he proceeds to the Excommunication of John de Albert (c) Plat. in vit Julii secundi King of Navarre who by Marriage to Katherine right Heir to Blanch Queen of Navarre held that Kingdom and by his Bull deprived him of it and made a Grant thereof to the above-named Ferdinand to dispose of it as he pleased whereupon he invaded that Kingdom and soon became master of Pampelona the chief City therein and after got possession of the whole In the year 1513. Albert pressed Ferdinand to do him right and reason by the
no Church The step to Christian and Catholick Belief is the well-grounded Credibility excluding all prudent doubts of the Clergy we have the same of the Church and of the Faith and Doctrine proposed by its testimony and the true Faith admits of no such doubts Therefore Protestants before they can prudently believe themselves to have true Faith or be in the Catholick Church must clear all the doubts objected against their Ordination For though any Person shall not be convinced of the Nullity of their Ordination yet he cannot but harbour a prudent doubt thereof there being so many Reasons and Motives for it Now to Receive Sacraments from Priests of so doubtful Authority is without doubt a damnable Sacriledg it being in the highest degree against the light of Right Reason and Rule of Faith to expose the Reverence of the Sacraments and Remedy of our Souls to so manifest an hazard SECT V. J. S. THis Conclusion is of the same temper with the Premises these were a confused heap of Incredibles Improbables and Impossibles this is a wild distempered Sorites carried on with an affected Obscurity to distract and amuse the Reader by multiplying confounding and changing the Terms hudling up many Conclusions in this one If St. Hierome by Church meant the Vniversal Church this always has now hath and ever will have Bishops as Sacerdotes signifies with him but if he spoke of a particular Church then his is not is not to be taken absolutely but respectively not simply to deny it's being and existence but it 's integrity and complement viz. there is no through complete Church which hath not Bishops For we read in the Ancients of some Churches that had received 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the fulness of Dispensations and of others which had not attained 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the complement of Necessaries though in St. Hierom's time all Churches were complete that he might truly affirm there was no Church without a Bishop But it may fall out also that all the Bishops of a well-formed complete Church may dye or by Persecution be so Scattered that they dare not appear or by an Infidel Conquerour be Banished or Murthered but if the remaining Christians in this distressed condition keep their first Faith they are in a salvable state and continue true members of the Vniversal Church as those Roman Converts were who believed upon St. Peter's first Sermon Act. 2. which was long before St. Peter came to Rome Rom. 16.7 2. He suggests It is impossible they should c. For once he guesseth right It is impossible any Church of one denomination can be the true Catholick Apostolick Church that is in the usual sense of the Romanists the Vniversal as it is impossible for a Part to be the Whole or their Catholick Church which is not the fourth part thereof to be Vniversal as they by their common restriction assume but it is possible a particular Church may be a true Catholick and Apostolick Church and the true Catholick and Apostolick Church of such a Nation For the Title Catholick is either taken properly for the Vniversal Church which is the Congregation of all Believers dispersed over all the World in opposition to the Herds of Jews Pagans and Infidels and then it is a contradiction to apply or appropriate it to any particular Church as the Romanists industriously do to huckster off their false Wares which otherwise would stick on their hands or else it is used in the more common signification of an Orthodox Church which participates in the true Faith with the Vniversal Church in a contradistinction to the Conventicles of all Heretical Blasphemers In this Notion the Protestant Church of England is not only a Catholick and Apostolick Church but in due Form of construction the true Catholick and Apostolick Church of England as several particular Churches viz. Rome Carthage c. have been honoured with the Title of the Catholick Church of those respective Nations (k) For as the Roman Church was called the Catholick Church of Rome Leo Ep. 12. So that of Antioch the Catholick Church of Antioch Conc. Constant 5. Act. 1. That of Carthage the Catholick Church of Carthage Aurel. Epist Eccl. Cathol Carthag So Polycarp was the Bishop of the Catholick Church of Smyrna Euseb lib. 4. hist c. 14. And that famous Epistle to the Smyrnians was directed to all the Holy and Catholick Churches id ib. in Princ. Greg. Naz. the Bishop of the Catholick Church of Constantinople in his last Will and Testament witnessed by four Bishops of their several Catholick Churches as of Iconium c. Provinces and Dioceses 3. His doubts and uncertainties have a rare virtue perhaps they may work strongly on weak minds they can demonstrate This is the noble demonstrating faculty of Romish Traditors they can raise doubts and uncertainties where there are none and by their Magick demonstrate first that the Protestant Church is not the Vniversal and then it is no Church first absurdly without Proof suppose the Nullity of its Ordinations and thence conclude the Nullity of its Christianity The best is this is but one Doctors opinion if more there be yet all his Colleagues are not so Magisterial in their nullifying Sentence The Bishop of Chalcedon is more solid and Prudent Persons (l) As Bishop Bramhal cites Reply to the Survey p. 33. saith he living in the communion of the Protestant Church if they endeavour to learn the truth which if they do not they are neither good Protestants nor good Christians and are not able to attain unto it but hold it implicitely in the preparation of their minds and are ready to receive it when God shall be pleased to reveal it they neither want Faith nor Church nor Salvation which elsewhere he confirms by this reason A Church may be Heretical and Schismatical really yet morally a true Church because She is (m) Bishop of Chalced. Survey c. 2. Sect. 4. invincibly ignorant of her Heresy and Schism Pope Innocent was so much offended at the irregularities of the Spanish Ordinations in his time that at first he inclined to null them but upon better thoughts be forbore declaring that for the number of those who were faulty therein he would not question nor doubt of any of them any ways passed but rather leave them to Gods Judgment Epist ad Conc. Tolk Car. sum Conc. p. 270. 4. But saith he a solid doubt c. This is not Universally true for a Church which hath a doubtful Clergy by irregularities of Ordination if She contend for that Faith which was once delivered to the Saints and cannot avoid those irregularities through not a pretended or contracted but a real necessity is a true part such an irregularity not absolutely and totally Un-Churching her of the true Catholick Church True but not Complete not Complete because it wants that which is required to the Integrity and Perfection of a Church yet True because it hath all things essential to