world could speake more fully for vs Catholicks in this behalf then doth the Protestāt (2) In his cōsideration of the Papists reasons pag. 105. M. Powel in these wordes I grāt that from the yeare of Christ 605. the Professant companie of Poperie hath been verie visible and perspicuous Or (3) In his discourse vpō the Catalo of Doc. ī the epi. to the Reader Simon de Voyon affirming that Anno 605. when Pope Boniface was stalled in the Papal Throne thē falsehood got the victorie c. Thē was the whole world ouerwhelmed with the dregs of Antichristian filthines abominable superstistions and Traditions of the Pope then was that vniuersal Apostacie from the Faith foretold by Paul And (4) In his exposition of the Creed v. 1. pag. 266. M. Parkins hauing spoken of the second signe of Christs comming which there he maketh to be the reuealing of Antichrist in Boniface Anno 607. alleageth thē next after as a third signe and as being distinct frō the other a general departing of most men from the Faith saying respectiuely thereof during the space of nine hundred yeares c. the Popish Heresie so do Hereticks stile it hath spred it self ouer the earth and so vniuersally in his opinion through-out al parts of Faith that sayth he next afterwards and the faithful seruants of God were but as a handful of wheat in a mountaine of chaffe (8) In his Reioynder to Bristow p. 34 which can scarce be discerned And againe (5) Ib. p. 310. we say for the space of manie hundred yeares an vniuersal Apostacie ouerspred the whole face of the earth and that our Protestant Church was not then visible to the world but lay hid vnder the chaffe of Poperie and the truth of this the Records of al Ages manifest M. Morton (6) Protest Apeale p. 71. would euade these testimonies of M. Parkins by answering that he speaketh this only of the Article of the Popes Primacie and not in regard of so large continuance and general belief of the other points of our now Catholick Faith which yet is most vntrue Parkins speaking in general of a general departing from the Faith and of an vniuersal Apostacie In so much as the Protestant church or Religion was not according to Parkins then visible to the world In which sense also (7) In his Ansvver to a counterf Cath◠p. 36. D. Fulk confesseth that The very Religiō of the Papists came in and preuailed Anno Dom. 607. c. And so vniuersally that saith he The reuelatiō of Antichrist with the Churches flight into the wildernes was Anno 607. So clear and cōfessed it is that our now Roman Religion hath cōtinued vniuersally for these last thousand yeares A truth so euidēt also that most Protestāts do from thence inferre and auouch that al the Popes of Rome for these last 1000. yeares haue been Antichrists (9) De Antichrist in praef p. 1. 2. M. Powel affirmeth that the Pope hath been Antichrist at al times since Gregorie the Great According to (10) Cont. Bellar. par 1. pag. 371. Danaeus The Kingdome of that Antichrist hath now manifestly cōtinued more then nine hundred yeares from the Emperour Phocas to the time af Luther D. whitaker (11) De Eccles cōt Bellar p. 144. affirmeth Boniface the Third who liued Anno 607 and al his successours to haue been Antichrists (12) In his Answ to a counterf catho pa. 27. and in his confut of Purgatory pa. 344 and ParKins v. 1. pag. 266. D. Fulk auoucheth that the Popes from Boniface the Third were blaspemous Hereticks and Antichrists (13) In his treatise of Antic p. 4. D. Downeham auerreth that The whole row or rable of Popes frō Boniface the Third downeward were Antichrists (14) In his Tryal of the Romish cler pa. 330. M. wotton tearmeth Boniface the Third the first reuealed Antichrist And (15) Hist sacr par p. 189. Hospinian censureth him and al his successours to be verissimos Antichristos most true Antichrists D. whitaker (16) De eccl cōt 8. l. cōtro 2. q. 4. p. 144. deliuering his owne and other Protestants opinion herein sayth we affirme Gregorie the Great to haue been the last true and holie Bishop of that Church c. For those that followed were true Antichrists c. And because they aske and demand of vs some certain time we assigne them this to wit of Antichrist's first comming So manifest it is that al the Roman Bishops after these last thousand yeares being thus censured by so many Protestants for Antichrists haue no lesse professed and maintayned the present Roman Religion then Gregorie the Fifteenth who now gouerneth that Sea and is charged by Protestants to be Antichrist himself And as al the Popes for these last thousand yeares are thus censured for Antichrists so is the article of the Popes Primacie or supreme authoritie ouer the whole Church in al matters Ecclesiastical plainly acknowledged by D. Morton himself to be no lesse ancient For wheras M. Brierlie produceth the testimonies of Parkins Napper and Broccard for the continuance of our Roman Religion in general for these last thousand yeares D. Morton restraineth their meaning though vndeseruedly only to the point of the Popes Primacie saying (17) Prot. Appeal p. 71 The alleaged Authours speak of the Primacie of the Pope And againe 18 Ibid p. 72 Be it granted for so it is that the Papal Primacie beginning in Boniface the Third is now nine hundred yeares old So ancient and vniuersal is this so transcendent Article of the Popes Primacie in matters Spiritual A point of such importāce that D. Reynolds affirmeth therein (19) confe p. 568. the very being and essence of a Papist to consist And D. Whitaker auoucheth that (20) contra Duroe pag. 503. It is the head of Popish Religion of which almost al the rest depend But what more forcibly can be produced for the further confirming of our Churches foresayd cōtinuāce for these last 1000. yeares then the publick exercise of our Churches Liturgie the holy Sacrifice of the Masse during the foresayd time Seing not only according to D. Sutclif (21) Answear to Exceptions pa. 11. In the Masse the verie Soule of Poperie doth consist as also according to D. Whitaker (22) contra Duroe pag. 426. Nothing is more holie and diuine in our conceipt But withal the Masse including sundrie articles of our Catholick Faith as true external Sacrifice the Real presence of Christs Bodie and Bloud in the Eucharist Priesthood Prayer to Angels and Saints Prayer and Sacrifice for the dead and sundrie such like thereby doth plainely conuince the vniuersal continuāce of our Catholick Religion D. Luther (23) In colloquiis Ger. de Missae affirmeth that Priuat Masse hath deceiued many Saints and carried them away into errour frō the time of Gregorie for 800. yeares With him agreeth M. Tindal (24) Act. Mon. p. 1338 in
no period or difference of time wherin the Church of Christ hath more gloriously shined either for puritie of Faith or Sanctitie of life then during the time of her primitiue being which according to the accompt (1) Ievvel in his Sermon at Paules Crosse And in his Reply p. 1. Humfrey in vita Iuelli p. 123. 124. VvitaKer Resp ad Ranones Campiani p. 90. of the learnedst ProtestaÌ„ts extended itself to the ful tearme of the first six hundred years after Christ our Sauiour his glorious Ascension In greatest confidence wherof D. Iewel whom M. Mason (2) Consecration of English Bish. p. 267 styleth and esteemeth a Iewel made his so aduenturous a Challenge when he publickly exclaimed at Pauls Crosse O Gregorie O Austin O Hierom O Chrysostom O Leo O Denis O Anaclet O Calixt O Paul O Christ If we be deceaued you haue deceaued vs this you taught vs c. And As I sayd before so I say now againe I am content to yeald and subscribe if anie of our learned Aduersaries or if al the learned men that be aliue be able to bring anie one sufficient Sentence out of anie old Catholick Doctour or Father or out of anie old General Councel c. for the space of 600. yeares after Christ which maketh agaynst anie one of 27. Articles by him there repeated and defended And this he protested to preach not as carryed away with the heate of Zeale but as moued with the simple truth This proffer of D. Iewel was so pleasing to D. Whitaker that he most valiantly renewed it in behalf of al Protestants (3) Resp ad Rat. CaÌ„p p. 90. And see p. 9. saying to our glorious Martyr Campian Attend Campian the speach of Iewel was most true and constant when prouoking you to the Antiquitie of the first six hundred years he offered that if you could shew but anie one cleare and playne Saying out of anie one Father or Councel he would grant you the victorie It is the offer of vs al The same do we al promise and we wil performe it With like courage steppeth forth (4) Of the Church l. 5. in his Appendix therto Part. 1. p. 33. D. Field We say sayth he with Bishop Iewel in his worthie Challenge that al the learned Papists in the world can not proue that either Gregorie or Austin held anie of these twentie seauen Articles of Popish Religion mentioned by him Neither wil D. Morton yeald a foot herein stoutly auouching that (5) Prot. Appeal p. 354. It hath been the common and constant profession of al Protestants to stand vnto the Iudgement of Antiquitie for the continuance of the first foure hundred years and more in al things Yea he further publickly professeth that (6) Protest Appeale p. 573. 574. Protestants in oppugning Doctrines which they cal new and not Catholick c. are so far from suffring the limitation of the first 440. years that they giue the Romanists the scope of the first fiue hundred or six hundred years as our Aduersaries themselues do acknowledge For D. Stapleton writing of the opinion of Luther Caluin and Melancthon sayth that they did yeald vnto the tryal of truth by the testimonie of Antiquitie for the space of the first Fiue or Six hundred yeares M. Campian a Iesuit reporting the Challenge of Bishop Iewel for the mayntenance of these Articles which he then propounded for Catholik sayth that he appealed vnto the Iudgement of Antiquitie for the first six hundred years And againe (7) Ibid. p. 512 Protestants in the disquisition of truth do not absolutely bound the name of Antiquitie within the compasse of the first Centurie of years but are content to allow it a longer extent and therfore in al Doctrines which are truly Catholick c. they refuse not to be tryed by the testimonies of the ancient Fathers in the first fiue hundred years after Christ Yea (8) Ib. p. 680. we repose our securitie in those two impregnable fortresses of the Catholick Faith one is the ancient Tradition of the Primitiue Church as the Protestants are confessed to professe c. So willingly do the learned Protestants prouoke and appeale to the Primitiue Church of Christ for the certayne tryal of truth in matters of Faith and Religion Al which they pretend to do because as Luther sayth (9) Tom. 2. Germ. f. 243. Epist ad Marchionem Branâ—eburg It is dangerous and horrible to heare or beleeue anie thing which is contrarie to the vnanimous testimonie of Faith and to the doctrine of the holie and Catholick Church which she from the beginning agreably kept for aboue One thousand fiue hundred years And as Chemnitius truly obserueth (10) Exam. par 1. f. 74. No man doubteth but the Primitiue Church receaued from the Apostles and Apostolical men not only the Text of Scripture but also the right and natiue sense therof wherupon sayth he (11) Ibid. p. 64. we are greatly confirmed in the true and sound sense of Scripture by testimonie of the ancient Church Which according also to other Protestants (12) Harmonie of Confess p. 400. Is the true and best Mistresse of Posteritie and going before lâ—adeth vs the way Yea sayth D. Beard (13) Retractiue from Romish ReligioÌ„ p. 372 without al question al truth was taught by the Apostles to the Primitiue Church and no part therof was left vnreuealed c. Besides it is as certayn that that Church which next succeeded the Apostles was the most pure and absolute Church whether for doctrine or manners matter or forme that euer was in the world and therefore to degenerate from that must needs be to degenerate from the puritie and sanctitie of Religion And againe it can not be denyed that c. though the Primitiue Age of the Church after the Apostles was most pestered with Hereticks yet euermore the truth preuayled both in regard of birthright and predominance D. Morton Declareth that (14) Protestant Appeale p. 513. In the maine question of discerning the true bookes of holie Writ the Protestants do appeale c. vnto the IudgemeÌ„t of the Primitiue Church attributing vnto it the right and Authoritie of assigning and determining what is the perfect Canon of Scriptures With whom agreeth Chemnitius saying (15) Exam. part 1. p. 69. Andradius affirmeth that the testimonie of the Church is either alwayes to be reiected or alwayes to be receaued I answer c. where the Fathers set downe this Tradition of the books of Scripture they proue it by testimonies of the Primitiue Church if with the same course of certayntie they shal do the like of other Traditions wherof sometimes they make mention it is to be respected and they are to be receaued by the same law D. Sarauia confirmeth the authoritie of the Primitiue Church from her special assistance by the Holie-Ghost saying The (16) De diuersis Ministrorum Gradibus p. 8. Holie-Ghost who gouerneth the Church is the best interpreter
Fathers in particular pronounceth of them in general thus 40) In Col. Conuiual c. De Patribus Ecclesiae See ye what darknes there is in the Fathers writings concerning Faith for when that Article of the Iustification of men is couered with darknes it can by no meanes be that greater errours he auoyded Bullinger doth 41) In Apoc. Serm. 87. fol. 270. acknowledge that The doctrine of Merits satisfaction and Iustification of works did incontinently after the Apostles time lay their first foundations Caluin affirmeth in general that 42) Inst l. 3. c. 25. §. 2. The ancient Writers of the Church vsing euerie where the word Merit gaue occasion of errour to posteritie therby Adde lastly that D. Whiteguift 43) In his Def. against the Reply of Carthw p. 472. 473. treating of Doctrine taught in anie Age since the Apostles time affirmeth without al other exception either of Age or Father that Almost al the Bishops and learned Writers of the Greek Church and Latin also for the most part were spotted with doctrines of Freewil of Merits c. And the same is likewise taught by 44) De Eccl. cont Bellar. p. 299. D. Whitakers Now concerning the ancient Iewes The Books of 45) c. 12 9. 4.10 Tobie and Ecclesiasticus 46) c. 3. 33. are so pregnant for the Merit of works that sundrie Protestants say therof 47) Minist of Lincolne Dioces in their Abridgment p. 76. The two places of Tobie and Ecclesiasticus tend dangerously to the Iustifying of the Merit of Almes-deeds And others writing against the booke of Homilies say 48) â—ilenced Ministers in the 2. Part of Def. p. 164. The book of Homilies whereto we are required to subscribe c. expoundes Tobie saying that Almes is profitable to purge the soule from the spots of sinne alleaging these words of Tobie 4.10 and 12.19 c. and out of Ecclesiasticus c. Yea they further say This 49) Ib. p. 166. place of Tobie were it Canonical c. is verie pregnant for the Merit of works and as strong for it as the Scriptures are for the merit of Christ Buxdorfius also writeth of the Rabbins that 50) Synagog Iudaica p. 23. They perswade themselues that they may satisfy for their sinnes by doing pennance vpon their skinnes and that they may easily merit eternal life by keeping of the Commandments and Good works And the same also is acknowledged in them by 51) Pharisaisme p. 13. 50. M. Hal. I may then conclude that the Fathers of the Primitiue Church are our firmest Patrons for our Catholick Doctrine concerning Good-works confessedly teaching First that Good-works do truly iustify Secondly Meriting Grace and Remission of sinnes in this life and eternal glorie in the next For which verie doctrine the Fathers acknowledged by Protestants are S. Gregorie Chrysostom Augustin Prosper Ambrose Hierom Nyssene Nazianzene Hilarie Ephrem Cyprian Origen Tertulian Theophilus Lactantius Iustin Clemens Alex. Ireneus Hermes Ignatius and the ancient beleeuing Iewes The Protestant Writers producing and charging the forsayd Fathers are Luther the Centurists Brentius the Diuines of Wittemberg Osiander Caluin Melancthon Chemnitius Winkilmamus Schultetus Bullinger Buxdorfeus Wotton Whitaker Humfrey Couel and Whiteguift It is acknowledged by Protestants that the Ceremonies now vsed by the Roman Church in the ministring of seruice or Sacrifice as also of the Sacraments were formerlie vsed by the Bishops Priests and Fathers of the Primitiue Church CHAP. XXII HAuing thus passed through so manie particular Controuersies of greatest weight and finding in al of them a perfect agreement and sweetest harmonie between the ancient most holie and Primitiue Church and the present Roman Catholick Church and this by no weaker proofes or euidences then the free grants Confessions and acknowledgments of our sworne and professed Aduersaries I wil now for my Conclusion in this kind only examen one poynt further which being not purely Doctrinal but most sensible and external wil therby not only prooue most accommodate to the sense and capacitie of the meanest Reader but withal wil most euidently declare and make manifest the outward gracious and beautiful face of Christian Religion practised by the ancient learned and holie Bishops Doctours and people of the Primitiue Church Nothing is better knowne either to those of greater yeares who as yet may wel remember the Ecclesiastical rites and Customes of our owne kingdome or to others more moderne who haue trauailed forraine Nations then the external Ceremonies vsed in Material Churches in Celebration of Seruice and Administration of the most holie Sacraments For who knoweth not that when Catholick Churches are erected they are specially consecrated and dedicated either to Christ or some of his Saincts That in them are seueral Chancels and Vestries as also Altars Candles Reliques and Images that there are truly Priests who offer daily external Sacrifice at the Altar Whose Vestments and vessels are specially hallowed who likewise obserue Canonical houres saying some prayers in Secret others with a loud voice sometimes giuing the people their benediction and burning Incense at the Altar In the Church likewise there is a Font specially hallowed for the administration of Baptisme which is holden necessarie to Saluation and the same is ministred with the Signe of the Crosse with holie Oyles and sundrie other Ceremonies hereafter specifyed And to omit sundrie other In the Church is blessed by the Priest Holiewater Holie-bread Candles Ashes c. I need not describe the naked walles of Protestants Churches or the bare black coates of their wedded Ministers both of them deuoyd of al grace ornament puritie and state duly befitting places and persons Ecclesiastical And therfore I hasten to the confessed practise of the Primitiue Church Wherein I first find that when Material Churches were first built they were specially hallowed by the Bishop so much as S. Gregorie and S. Austin are reproued by D. Humfrey 1) In Iesuit part 2. rat 5. p. 5. 627. for bringing into England the new Consecration of Churches And the 2) Cent. 6. col 364. 365. Centurie-writers do charge S. Gregorie out of his owne writings with Consecration of Churches D. Morton affirmeth that he vsed 3) Prot. Appeal l. 1. p. 53. Superstitious manner of Consecration of Churches Yea the 4) Cent. 4. col 408. further confesse that Athanasius in his Apologie to Constantin plainly sheweth that Christians did not assemble togeather in Churches not consecrated And that in the Fourth Age the Fathers vsed 5) Cent. 4. col 497. Sumptuous Churches consecrated and Superstitious Insolencie in celebrating of Masse appointed to be sayd in no places but such as were hallowed by a Bishop 6) Cent. 4. col 497. Yea they reprooue Constantin himselfe for that say they concerning Consecration of Churches new built proud adorning of them and other Superstitious things the greatest part Constantine inuented and spread abrode in many Churches And wheras Sozomene hist l. 1. c. 8.
abstinence from drie meâ—ts vpon an opinion c. that those things had an euil beginning Now if D. Fulk be comprehended in D. Mortons We then did he vndeseruedly obiect against Catholicks the errour of the Montanists So wholy impertinent is the obiection from Montanus And as to the abstinence from flesh and marriage the Manichees and Tatianists condemned flesh marriage as pertaining to the il God according to the Heresie of the Valentinian before them To this end sayth 21) Ad Quod vult-Deu haer 25. 40. 53. S. Austin of the Tatianists or Encratites They condemne marriages and esteeme of them al alike as of fornication and other pollutions neither admit they to their number anie that vse marriage They eatâ—â— flesh but account al flesh as abhominable A thing so euident that the Puritan M. Iacob 22) Def. of the Churches Ministerie of Eng. p. 59. answerably acknowledgeth in our behalf that Marcion the Heretick and Tatamus did absolutely condemne marriage and certaine meates and so are in no comparison with the Papists if they erred in nothing els In like sort sayth D. Morton our Aduersaries b) Prot. Appeal p. 600. feared the eating of certaine meates as the Heretical Tatianists and Manichees anciently had done but with a difference for the foresayd Hereticks taught that men might not eate certaine sortes of meats because they thought they were not made of the good God but of the Euil for the which cause they were condemned in Councels But abstinence from certaine meates is appointed in our Church say the Rhemists for chastising the bodie with Pennance Heerby acording vnto vs that it is not alwayes Quid but Quo that is not the same Action but the diuers principles and intentions of the Action do distinguish truth from Heresie So confessed a difference there is euen in D. Mortons Iudgement between our Catholick truth and the Heresie of the Tatianists and Manichees concerning abstinence from certaine meates To come then to the second against Prayer for the dead D. Fulk barely affirmeth that it is taken from Montanus not being able to alleage anie one testimonie of anie one Father witnessing the same or charging Montanus with errour in that respect Yea his owne conscience did tel him the contrarie when he confessed that he vttered this but of 23) Against Purgat p. 417. thought and 24) Ib. p. 263. coniecture and as a thing that may wel be so Whereas I haue proued 25 at large that Prayer for the dead was taught by S. Cyprian other Fathers liuing with and before Montanus To the third against Purgatorie fire Origens errour was that Hel-fire was not euerlasting but temporal which as S. Austin (26) Ad. quod vult haer 43. relateth should in time purge not only them that had ended their liues in most horrible sinnes but also the Diuels themselues Which opinion maketh so litle or rather truly nothing against Purgatorie that S. Austin and S. Epiphanus who confute the errours of Origen do yet (27) See before l. 2. c. 11. confessedly beleeue and defend the Catholick doctrine of Purgatorie and Prayer for the dead To the fourth against worshiping of Relicks of Saincts 28) haer 19. S. Epiphanius reporteth that the Essenes were a sect of Iewes that Marthis being the kinswoman of Elxat and Marthana his sister they were in the countrey of the Essenes adored for Gods for that they were of Elxais stock The spitle of which woman and the filthes of their bodies the Hereticks of that countrey did take to them therby to cure diseases but yet without anie effect at al. Now as this follie of the Essenes maketh nothing at al against the 29) Act. 19.12 napkins or handkerchefs which being brought from Paules bodie to the sick the diseases departed from them and the wicked spirits went out so neither doth it make anie thing against the Religious estimation of Saincts Relicks and the Miraculous cures which God hath shewed by them according to the vndoubted and confessed report and 30) See before l. 2. c. 15. testimonie of the ancient Doctours To the fift against the vulgar peoples praying in Latin or other vnknowne tongue S. Epiphanius relateth amongst the other errours of Elxai 31) haer 19. that he prescribed this prayer Abir anid moib nochile daasin ani daasin nochile moib anid abar selan which prayer being interpreted as S. Epiphanius affirmeth it was nothing but vaine words But what maketh this against godlie prayers allowed and prescribed by the Pastours of Christs Church So that D. Fulks pretended errours against the Catholick Church are nothing els being duly examined but malicious forged and idle inuentions of his owne braine Other Protestants m) Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 7. fol. 480. obiect that we take from the Manichees Communion vnder one kinde But this also is most vntrue for 32) Exam. part 2. p. 145. Zepperus de Sacrament p. 41. Chemnitius himself truly explaineth this and sayth The Manichees because they detested wine as an abhominable thing and imagined the bodie of Christ as only phantastical not to haue had true bloud they endeuoured to bring in the receiuing only of one kinde for which errours they were condemned by S. Leo and Gelasius and are stil by al Catholick Doctours And we are further cleered herein at large by (a) Prot. Appeal l. 2. p. 139 140. D. Morton in these words Knowing that the Manichees did heretically celebrate the Eucharist only in one kinde the bread but the wine they did not allow because they imagined wine to haue been created by an euil spirit and were therefore anciently condemned for Hereticks would now the Apologists hold it conscionable in Protestants to accuse the Romanists of that Heresie of the Manichees because they distribute not the Eucharist in both the elements bread and wine Nay would they not rather reiect this accusation as altogeather iniurious saying It was not the Manichees abstinence from the wine but the reason of that forbearance which was iudged heretical So kind is M. Morton here to Catholicks and so scrupulous in conscience least they should be iniured with this so vnworthie imputation But where was his conscience or ordinarie senses when directly contrarie to the premisses in the same booke of the Appeal himself produceth D. Whitaker and ioyneth with him charging vs Catholicks with the sayd imputed Heresie of the Manichees saying But b) Ib. p. 505. M. Whitaker in the same place did further more note the administration of the Eucharist but in one kind now vsed in the Romish Church to haue had the original from the Manichees c. Where now then was his want Shal it not be rather imputed to the Apologists who haue not answered vnto those points which they haue so willingly concealed then vnto our Doctours who hath obiected so many c Thus confessing D. Whitaker to haue obiected to Catholicks the foresaid Heresie of the Manichees and
Fathers were no Protestants but meerly Papists wherin we may glorie as reuerencing their sanctitie admiring their learning and honouring their Antiquitie Neither is it true as Protestants vse to suggest that Catholicks distrusting their cause if it be committed to trial by Scripture do therefore fly from it to Fathers and Doctours for as for al such poynts as are contayned in Scripture to Scripture we appeale it is that we vrge her literal sense and words hath made vs Papists We therefore only recurre to Fathers eyther for the better finding-out and vnderstanding the true meaning of sundrie difficult passages and texts of Scripture or for the true discerning of seueral Ecclesiastical Traditions and doctrines taught and practised by the Church and yet no where mentioned in the Writen Word And as this is not most impiously to oppose Fathers to Scriptures or to fly from Scriptures to Fathers So is it in these respects the most assured meanes to giue vs satisfaction For as none euer left more liuelie Monuments of rarest wit profundest knowledge or more shining testimonies of greatest puritie and sanctitie in life or more astonishing wonders and miracles in confirmation of their Faith and doctrine then these ancient Fathers so were there none euer furnished with so good means eithers of knowing the Apostles or the Apostles preaching as the Apostles first heires and next successours the sweetest fruits of their labours our holie Fathers But to prosecute yet further this so lunatick proceeding of Protestants against these grauest Sages of Christ's Catholick Church what more indigne or iniurious can be vttered then that these so great Doctours al of them vnited members of one Catholick Church should be at deadlie warres and dissention amongst themselues in important articles of Faith Religion Yea that one and the same Doctour should contradict himself that in matters fundamental of greatest consequence And yet Caluin blusheth not to say 32) In Inst in Praef. ad Reg. Galliae p. 7. Those holie men were ignorant of manie things they often fight amongst themselues and sometimes with themselues Beza likewise speaking of the ancient Fathers in Theodosius his time sayth 32) In Inst in Praef. ad Reg. Galliae p. 7. I confesse as then there were most learned Bishops 33) In nou Test Praef. ad Princip Condens p. 4. but this also I affirme c. that scarce anie of them can be named who dissenteth not both from himself and others in manie things and those of greatest moment A thing incredible in such learned Bishops if Caluin and Beza were not the Broachers who seldome tel truth 34) Ep. ad Rom. c. 14. p. 419. Melancthon also thus writeth of the Fathers Seing they sometimes speak contrarie things they must pardon vs if we reprehend certain things in them And 35) Devotis p. 463. Though the Fathers were wise and learned and saw many things sayth Peter Martyr yet they were men and could erre And that chiefly is to be obserued that the Fathers do not always agree amongst themselues and sometimes one dissenteth from himself Those Fathers saith 36) Retractiue from Romish Religion p. 223. 224. D. Beard that liued in the next two hundred yeares after the first speak of this mater of Inuocation of Saints very variously and doubtfully as if it were a Doctrine which they knew not what to say to and were not fully resolued in Thirdly of those Fathers which he alleadgeth though in some places they seeme to allow that custome which was then brought into the Church yet in other places they disallow the same yea and they are disapproued also of others that liued in the same Age. Thus true Athanasius condēneth Inuocation of Saints c. false Athanasius alloweth it c. Basil approueth it but Nazianzene doubteth of it and Epiphanius c. vtterly condemneth it Chrysostome in some places seemeth to allow of it in others he speaketh against it and so doth Augustine and the rest The like contradition D. Whitaker instanceth in S. Basil saying 37) De Sacra Scrip. p. 670. Basil fighteth with himself And 38) De Princip Christ Dog l. 2. c. 10. p. 675. I oppose saith Lubbertus Basil against Basil And 39) Ib. p. 678. Damascene is contrarie to himself Yea 40) Ib. p. 676. I oppose Chrysostome against Chrysostome of whom also saith Whitaker 41) De Sacra Scrip. p. 678. he is at variance with himself And 42) Ibid. p. 676. Let vs not attend what Cyprian sayd but let vs examin him by his owne law Yea of S. Augustin Whitaker blusheth not to say 43) Ibid. p. 690. Although in this he may be thought to fauour Traditions yet in other places he defendeth earnestly the perfection of the Scriptures Of whom also sayth D. Beard 44) Retractiue from Romish Religione 413. Augustin whom they challenge for the greatest Patrone of this fire yet defineth nothing determinately of it but speaketh doubtingly and problematically and if he affirme it in some one place he leaueth it in suspence in others and vtterly denyeth it in a third D. Morton acknowledgeth that Protestants 45) Prot. Appeal l. 2. p. 201. 202. haue particularly and by name obserued that Iustinus Ireneus Clemens Tertullian Origen Cyprian and others albeit manie times they pleaded for the free wil of the corrupt nature of man yet were they sometime reduced vnto the more Orthodoxal hold writing therof more commodiously belike as denying Free-wil But this being only a Protestant or lying obseruation I must inferre that as this so base proceeding against the Fathers doth euidently demonstrate and discouer the vnablenes of Protestants in alleadging the Fathers further against vs then they are pretended to be against themselues which al of iudgement wil confesse to be nothing So doth it alfo no lesse cleerly conuince that Protestants in their owne consciences do find and know the Fathers directly to condemne their opinions and to patronize Papistrie for otherwise they would neuer endeauour so fowly to blemish them by vrging contradiction with themselues which the meanest Writer though in triuial matters doth euer scorne as too cleer an argument of grosse obliuion or worse inconstancie Now from this conceipt of the Fathers ignorance and contradiction to themselues Protestants doubt not to preferre their owne moderne writers for iudgement knowledge and learning before the greatest ancientest Doctours of the Primitiue Church So Luther in his Protestant humilitie thus speaketh of himself 46) Lib. ad Ducem Georgium And see Colloq lat c. de Consolatione Since the Apostles times no Doctour or writer hath so excellently and cleerly confirmed instructed and comforted the consciences of the secular States as I haue done by the singular grace of God This certainly I know that neither Austin not Ambrose who are yet in this matter the best are equal to me heerin 47) Tom. 7. Serm. de Euersione Hierusalem f. 271. The Ghospel