and the chief Governors of it to learn them from their mouths or from the Vniversal Tradition of Christendome But that every particular Christian is to receive and know what he is to believe what not by his sole perusal of Gods written word as though every particular point of Christian Faith were particularly set down in it or by particular respective consequences or other particular proofs concerning every such point to be deduced from it is so great a Paradox that no man I think who hath his right senses can averr it For besides the unlearned which is the far greater part of Christendome whereof a very great part know neither to write nor read and therefore depend upon the credit of others what are the words of Scripture or if they can read know no other save their Mothers tongue and thereby are subject to a thousand misconstructions of the words or Phrases in the Original or if they arrive to the knowledge of the original know not the true Rules of interpretation of Scripture and thereby run into errors or if they know them out of Pride or self-conceit of their own wit and jugdment will not apply them And as to the Learned seeing they after all their industry skill in Languages comparing one place with another c. are yet so far from according one with another in the interpretation of divers places of Scripture touching points of Faith controverted that there is no hope after 150 years discord they will ever come to an agreement But suppose some learned men might have a greater insight into Scripture and approach nearer to the sense of it then those that are less learned or the ignorant yet Scripture interpreted by private mens judgment cannot be a sufficient Rule of Faith or means to obtain it For the Rule and means appointed by almighty God to attain Faith must be common and universal to all sorts of Christians nor must there be one rule and means for the learned and another for the unlearned Seeing Scripture cannot be sufficiently interpreted by the sole means of Scripture by the unlearned as I have shewed and Scripture interpreted by private men cannot be the Rule and Means appointed by Almighty God for the guiding of consciences in all points of Faith there must therefore be some other for the unlearned and consequently for all Now this other means and rule can be no other excogitable unless we run to the Sole private Spirit of Phanatiques which is more absurd then all the rest save the direction and universal Tradition of Gods Catholick Church as is above declared As to your last sentence I acknowledg That he who can answer these Queries may answer mine and the same substantial answer mutatis mutandis will satisfie a good conscience in both Nor did I ever think my Queries unanswerable for I know I could answer them my self or any one may do who assents to the Principles of the Roman Church But I propounded my Queries to Protestants and shewed they are unanswerable by them and from them only it is from whom I in this occasion expect an answer N. 2. Now let us weigh the Categorical Answers To the first the Answer seems to be affirmative Onely there is some dubiousness in the word Christianity For all Hereticks make a visible profession of Christianity Supposing therefore you mean true Christianity in their whole Profession the Answer is accepted To the second you add the word Ordinarily If therefore you mean by this that some may be saved in extraordinary cases out of the visible Church I take the Answer to be affirmative that some may be saved out of the visible Catholick Church which I think is contrary to the stream of all Christian Antiquity The third hath nothing of a Categorical Answer For I demand amongst all different pretended professions which is now the Holy Catholick Church by designation of some one or some set number of Professions now on foot And you tell me what the Holy Catholick Church is but give no designation of any particular profession or professions of Christians Or if you intended to make a designation you have answered obscurum per aequè obscurum which can be no Categorical Answer For it is now as obscure among Christians which profession that is which now professeth the true Catholick Faith once for all delivered to the Saints c. as it is which is now the Holy Catholick Church Your fourth Answer is defective ex insufficienti enumeratione partium and not Categorical For I put two parts in my Querie Destructive of Salvation or indangering of it You answer to the first but you say nothing to the second wherein notwithstanding was the main force of the Querie Your fifth Answer is not Categorical because only conditional You say The Catholick Church so long as it continues so cannot c Now this conditional So long as it continues so supposes that the Catholick Church can cease to be the Catholick Church which is both contrary to your answer to the first Querie wherein you grant that there is in all ages a Visible Catholick Church and a most damnable error in Christianity For if the Visible Catholick Church can ever cease to be Christ who hath promised it shall ever be Eph. 4. 10 11 12. c. will become a false Prophet But suppose you had given a Categorical Answer That it can never obtrude false Scripture c. then you must grant that the Catholick Visible Church is infallible in the delivery of Scripture If so then is there an Infallible Judg upon the earth concerning this point If so I require some satisfactory reason why the Church should be infallible in this and fallible in other points of Faith seeing it is as great absurdity to abuse the world with salse Faith as with false Scriptures Or what authority is there either in Scripture or Antiquity which limits the infallibility of the Church to the sole determination of Scriptures Or is it not as pernicious to a Soul to be put in danger of damnation by having a dangerous error taught it by the Church as by having some Books happily less dangerous than that error imposed upon it by the Church To your Conclusion I answer The reason why you are to desert the Protestant English Church is not because it adheres to the Scriptures as a Rule of Faith for the Roman doth that as well as the Protestant but because they will have that the sole Rule in exclusion of Vniversal Tradition and the voice of the Catholick Church Nor is it any reason to refuse to join with the Roman Church because it enjoyns one to renounce his Senses and Reason For it enjoyns this no more than Scripture and the Protestant Church does For was not Lot to deny his Senses when he perceived them to be Angels whom his eyes ears and touch taught him to be living men And how could our Saviour pass through a whole crowd of people and neither
and unlearned and easier to be applied by particular Christians then the Scripture the study whereof for the discovery of so much as is necessary to be believed and done requires infinitely less pains then is requisite for the certain knowledge of what the Church in all ages and places hath taught as matter of faith necessary to salvation You Sir are pretty well versed in Books and have been inquisitive into Antiquity and I believe you will conclude it much easier to know the mind and will of God which is the measure of spiritual wisdom and the Vnum necessarium the One thing necessary for us to seek after then to learn the sence of the Church that is still according to the Querists Exposition of the chief Pastors in all Ages concerning the points in debate between us To close up this Discourse try whether you find not within your self enough of reason to consent to this resolution he that by attendance on Gods Ordinances dispensed by a faithful Ministry and by private study of Gods Book hath learned the Gospel of Christ and is a good practical Scholar of the saving Grace of God which hath appeared unto all men a Catholick Light common as the Sun teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we live soberly righteously and religiously in this present world this man I say being * taught of God doth know à priori before-hand and by the very seed and in the first principle what the true Church Catholick holds For that Word of God which lives and abides for ever in Heaven Psal 119. 8 9. in the hearts of believers 2 Cor. 3. 3. 1 Joh. 3. 9. in the Scriptures and in the Church is that incorruptible seed by which the Church Catholick is begotten and by which it lives Since then the Church is no longer or further a Church then as it believes the Gospel and the faithful Pastors in all ages do teach that Gospel it must needs be that whosoever knows the Gospel knows what is the sense of the Catholick Church though he never spend an hour in the reading of history whereas if he spend Methusalahs age in tumbling over the Fathers Schoolmens Ecclesiastical Histories and other Volumes he may weary his flesh and yet notknow by them what was the Faith of the Catholick Church Now to the mans conclusion He acknowledges that a direct fit and true answer to my Queries mutatis mutandis would be an answer to his captious questions which he propounds with the same mind as his admired Masters the Scribes and Pharisees did trouble our Saviour Christ with Interrogatories thinking but in vain that we should be intangled in our ovvn Ansvvers whereas indeed he had been catched if he had given apposite Answers But after mine examination which I resign up to your discretion I desire you to transform your self by the power of imagination for a while into the person of a well-minded Jew that seeks for satisfaction in Religion in a distracted estate of the Church and try whether this Querist being forced to turn Respondent hath fully and fitly answered my Counter-Queries My next Task is to examine his exceptions against my Categorical Answers I shall not contend about words nor much crave excuse for want of accurate expression in that hasty delivery of my Conceptions to comply with your request at that time As to the first he excepts against the term Christianity as dubious to make my Answer acceptable I will insert the Term he desires and say True Christianity But I fear the addition will dispel no mist of doubtfulness if there were any such about the answer For Hereticks alwaies pretend to Truth as much as to Christianity and would be taken for the only true Christians But to satisfy his nice and curious palate I answer as fully as he desires There was is and shall be till the worlds end a Catholick Church that in every age is visible by profession of true Christianity to the persons then living That is to say In all ages God had and will have and preserve some Christians who shall so profess the Truth according to the doctrine of the Gospel that their light of Faith shall shine to the men of their generation respectively But I cannot so easily admit another addition sliely made by the Querist to my Answer viz. in their whole profession Latet anguis in herbâ He that professes true Christianity may build hay and stubble upon the foundation and yet not miscarry in his person whilst he holds fast his profession of the saving truth unto the end though he be saved through the fire and loose his superstructure as St. Paul assures us It is not therefore necessary that any person or Church which maintains true Christianity should profess it in such an absolute purity as that water should never be mixed with the wine It is enough that poyson is not admixed with the liquor of life But because I perceive that there is much ambiguity in the termes of the Query for which it deserves to be called Fallacia plurium interrogationum a sophistical trick of asking many things under one word that hath two faces under a hood I will weigh the vvords over again and mould my answer anevv fitted to his explication of the vvord Catholick In common speech Catholick is no more-than Universal Justin Martyr vvho vvith many others of that age believed a particular Resurrection of some that should rise and reign 1000 years before the end of the World calls the last Resurrection 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Catholick or in plain English Universal Resurrection There is also a Catholick Faith vvhich is common to all Christians and comprises all that is necessary to Salvation And the Church of Christ novv unconfined to any one place or nation but spreading like a fruitful vine her branches throughout the earth is called Catholick that is not National as the old Church of the Jevvs vvas but Universal since the Gospel is preached to all the vvorld indifferently and the voice of the Apostles vvent forth into all the earth and their vvords unto the ends of the habitable vvorld It is not to be omitted that in a secondary and borrovved sense the word Catholick is applied to them that hold the true Faith which is common to all Christians and therefore Catholick In this sense not only a particular Church but also a singular person may be called Catholick meaning one that professes the Catholick Faith But the Querist who hath a peculiar language and though he speaks English yet means Italian hath taught me since I first read his Questions and answered them according to the common usage of the words that he meant by the Catholick Church the Representative Church in a full and lawful meeting of the Priests and Pastors to teach the Church diffusive Now according to this sense of the words Catholick Church I do turn my Affirmative Answer into a Negative and
discern a good tree from a bad by the fruit as our Saviour directs us to do then we must first know what is good and bad in fruit and then consider what fruit the tree bears and from thence give a judgement of the tree This is the method which we must take in the enquiring for a true Church Till we know what is Truth and that is the Faith once delivered to the Saints we cannot know what Church brings forth good or bad fruit Profession of faith is bearing of fruit The goodness of this fruit is Truth that is agreeableness to the Word of God It is therefore necessary that we know the Truth before we can know a Church to be true Now though the Truth or the holy Catholick Faith may be under doubt and debate yet hath God set it up in the Scriptures so conspicuously that if the Gospel be hid it is hid to them that perish Therefore I added to the Character of the Church by which I designed it to be known that is the profession of faith the means whereby we may know what the faith is which being professed is the sole certain mark of a true Church For the marks of the Church which Romanists commonly give are separable from the Truth and if they be taken singly without truth are false and treacherous indices whereas the true faith of it self is a sure note of a true Church And I pointed at Scripture which is the Rule of faith on purpose in mine Answer that I might not be thought to send a man to look for a thing in the dark without a light And now Sir do you judge whether I have deserved blame by my designation of the Catholick Church by professing the Catholick Faith But to make mine Answer both applicable to the Question and also useful to you I shall a little explicate and enlarge my sence It is presumed that the enquiry after a Church is made by a Christian that may be distracted in the variety of visible Societies differing one from another but every one equally pretending to be a Church but his distraction is the greater because of all Societies only the Roman Synagogue doth challenge to her self to be the Ark out of which there is no salvation There are three Reasons which may move Christians to enquire for a Church or a visible Society of Christians 1. That they may serve God and offer up the spiritual sacrifices of praise and prayer by Christ Jesus 2. That they may grow in grace and the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ 3. That they may joyn with Gods people and keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace by communicating together in Gods holy Ordinances To compass these ends a Christian is not concerned to enquire where the Catholick Church is for it is confessedly diffused through the Nations but so spread by Gods dispensation of the light that the Sun of righteousness doth not at one time arise to all parts of the world Besides the Candlestick is moveable from any place and the Kingdom of God may be transferred from one Nation to another neither hath God by any the least indication of his will and pleasure encouraged any portion of mankind or part of the world to promise to themselves a perpetual establishment of the Church in that place and in that successive body of men which at some time hath been or is now irradiated with the Gospel It is therefore not at all material to trouble our selves with delineations of the Catholick Church which hath no set or certain limits of extent That which concerns us to know is what Church pretending to be a member of the Church Universal for no men but Papists that can admit contradictions into their Creed will speak such non-sense with deliberation as that is when they call a particular society of Christians combined under one Bishop the Universal Church is fit and safe to be communicated withal that we must reap the benefits of a Christian Congregation Therefore the Question is now whether the Church wherein I was born and baptized and by Gods Providence am seated under its government or another different society of Christians which invite me to their communion be such a company as I may safely joyn with them in all publick offices of Religion For if it be I am bound to communicate with that Church as being a member of the Body of Christ the unity of which Body I am bound to maintain The Truth therefore of the doctrine taught the integrity and purity of the divine worship celebrated and the way of administring Ecclesiastical power must be examined by some Rule and known to be agreeable to the Gospel of Christ before a Christians conscience can be satisfied of the necessity of communion with that Church upon this account because it is a member of a Church Catholick Since then it is the custome to call any publick society of Christians that are compacted together by a frame of political government into one body a Church that particular Church is a member of the Catholick which holds that Faith the profession whereof constitutes the Church Catholick He that sleights this Designation would have dealt kindly with us if he had discovered unto us a better way or a clearer Light by which we might find the Church and discover a true Church from a vain pertender Till he or some other do that office for us we think it best to seek for a Church if we were now to seek by looking for the light of truth in it which alwaies shines in the house of God And because truth and peace are both the legacies of Christ bequeathed unto the Church we may do well to try what society of Christians doth follow peace and edification of the Body of Christ If the Church of Rome that sets up Images of God which are the teachers of lies in their Temples and by her Anathemaes makes divisions in Christendome be tryed by those two marks I leave the event to any one that will impartially pronounce sentence according to the evidence of fact in the whole bulk of their doctrines and Devotions and in their publick Government My fourth Answer hath the same fate with the former to be called not Categorical I must learn new Logick as well as new Theologie to understand this Gentleman But it is charged with defect because it reflects not upon the whole Question and takes no notice of the tail wherein the sting of the Scorpion lies I confess mine Answer comes short in that particular because I did not apprehend then the last clause of his question to be of any moment For I thought it enough that the Church Catholick is secured from any error that is destructive of Salvation But because I am now informed that the main force of the Querie lies in this Whether the Holy Church so designed can teach any error as matter of Faith endangering of Salvation
I now make a return to that part as well as to the former and indeed to the whole Question 1. Errors that endanger Salvation do not alwaies destroy it 2. God hath promised to preserve his Church from destruction but not from danger 3. All errors when they are discovered are to be rejected 4. No doctrines offered by any Church to her Children are to be received without examination 5. The Catholick Church as it signifies the whole Body of Christendome is too big to be a teacher that may be consulted and hearkened unto 6. The Church in this mans sense and explication that is an Assembly of chief Pastors in Council may teach errors endangering Salvation Arianism hath been taught in as large Assemblies of chief Pastors as the true Faith hath been 7. But because it is the design of this man that we should take the Roman Church for the Catholick I stick not to say that the Roman Church teaches her children errors that endanger the attaining of Salvation My fift Answer is excepted against for the interposition of these words so long as it continues so which looks like a condition and seem to suppose that the Catholick Church can cease to be so The words are capable of another construction viz. The Holy Catholick Church so long as it continues secured from teaching destructive errors cannot even for that reason abuse the world with forged Scriptures This was then my meaning who had no intention that my last Answer should contradict my first Let us now see what he draws from my Answer if it were Categorical and how rational his inference is For now we are come to the bottom of his project And he thinks he hath catched us so fast in his trap that either we must give him the Cause or be condemned out of our own mouths If mine Answer be says this new fashioned Logician that the Church can never ohtrude false Scripture c. then you must grant that the Catholick visible Church is infallible in the delivery of Scripture If so then is there an infallible Judg upon the earth concerning this point How rash this inference is and how incoherent the conclusion with the premises a few words will serve to discover It is acknowledged on both sides that the primitive Church which received the Scriptures was not and because Gods spirit guided and governed the Church in this important business could not be abused and mistaken in the receiving of Canonical Scripture The Catholick Church being quickly after enlarged and spred through many regions of the earth did together with the Gospel preached receive Copies of the Scriptures which had been communicated by the particular Churches to which they were directed at first unto their neighbour Churches These Scriptures were by all Churches reverenced and preserved as the Grand Charter of their Salvation and the Laws and Records of their Society as the Church was the Kingdome of Christ distinguished from the world The zeal of Christians for their Laws and their knowledg of them which were frequently read in the publick Assemblies according to an * Apostolical order to which we must add above all the Providence of Gods watching over the Church for the preservation of Scriptures being more pretious to God than to Man and as pretious to God as the world it self these being well considered may assure us that it was morally impossible that the whole Church of God should be cousened into the reception of any forged Scriptures And if the Church in following ages could not combine together to coyn counterfeit Scriptures then the Church universal could never obtrude any thing upon the world for Canonical Scripture which was not received from the Primitive Church at first But how doth it follow from hence that the Church is an Infallible Judg in this point A creditable witness is not presently an Infallible Judg. A faithful Depositary that keeps Records is not the same thing with an unerring Judg. The Tradition of the Church Universal which hath derived the Holy Scriptures from age to age is not an Act of Judicature The Nation of the Jews is at this day a credible witness of the divine Original and authority of the Old Testament at least at the first plantation of the Church Christian the Jevvish Church did preserve and deliver the Holy Scriptures intire so much at least as God thought necessary or expedient and if any book vvere lost that by being lost became unnecessary and vvas secured by Gods Providence in the conveyance of his Oracles to Christians Doth it hence follovv that the People of the Jews was a visible Infallible Judg in that point and if so then in all matters of Faith For thus the Papist proceeds If so I require some satisfactory reason says the Querist why the Church should be infallible in this and fallible in other points of Faith c. I have already shewed that the Case is not so as this man imagines therefore I am not bound to give him the satisfaction which he requires Yet for your further information I add this 1. The reception and tradition of Scriptures by the Church is a fact which God orders as expedient for the preservation of Religion 2. The certain number of the Books written by inspiration is not a point of faith necessary for every Christian to know and believe unto Salvation 3. The Catholick Church cannot err in any point of faith necessary to salvation 4. But any particular Church may believe and teach erroneous Doctrine for matter of Faith The Church of Rome which is not the sole keeper of Scripture may and doth err in several points of their Religion and doth impose upon her children uncanonical Books for Scripture and false Doctrines for matters of faith as is evident by the Canons of the Conventicle of Trent And yet it is not in the power of the Church of Rome to abuse the whole Christian world by the imposition of counterfeit Scriptures upon it I shall yet persist in my reflexion upon the Jews that I may shew that the keeping of Scriptures without forgery falsification and corruption is a thing distinct and separable from erring teaching errors The Jews cannot be denied to have been good keepers of the Books even then when they corrupted the Religion enjoyned by the Law written in those Books Never yet was any man so weak as to conclude that the Priests and Rabbies of the Jews were Infallible Judges of the Doctrine concerning the Messias even those who condemned Christ the Son of God to be guilty of blasphemy and worthy of death because they kept the Books of Moses and the Prophets There is now less reason why we should take the present Church of Rome which we evidently see to teach Doctrines and set up a worship as contrary to the Scriptures as darkness is to light to be an infallible Judge of faith upon this account because the Primitive Roman Church in communion with other Churches did