Selected quad for the lemma: sense_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	catholic_n	church_n	roman_a	2,613	5	8.9971	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A25225	The additional articles in Pope Pius's creed, no articles of the Christian faith being an answer to a late pamphlet intituled, Pope Pius his profession of faith vindicated from novelty in additional articles, and the prospect of popery, taken from that authentick record, with short notes thereupon, defended.	Altham, Michael, 1633-1705.; Altham, Michael, 1633-1705. Creed of Pope Pius IV, or, A prospect of popery taken from that authentick record.	1688 (1688)	Wing A2931; ESTC R18073	87,445	96

to admit of them and embrace them And this he pretends to do both by an Apostolical Precept and Apostolical Practice Two mighty arguments if they be apposite to the thing in hand and well managed which whether they be or no I shall now examine The Apostolical Precept which he produceth is in the Epistle to the Hebrews c. 13. v. 7 17. in these words Remember them which have the rule over you c. Obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for they watch for your Souls as they that must give an account c. In the former of these Verses as their own Lyra upon the place tells us we are taught how to behave our selves towards our Spiritual Rulers that are dead Lyra in Hebr. c. 13. v. 7. We ought to remember them by following their Faith and imitating their good Examples And lest we should be at a loss to know who they are whom we are to remember and whose Faith and Vertue we are to follow the same Lyra tells us They were the Apostles and other Disciples of Christ In the latter place the same Lyra tells us we are taught how to behave our selves towards our Spiritual Rulers who are alive viz. by obeying their Commands and giving due Reverence to their Persons That obedience is due from Inferiors to their Superiors we readily grant But then I. They must be such Superiors as not only pretend to have but really have a right to rule over them Now we do not think that any particular Church no not the Church of Rome it self hath any authority to give Laws to another Church for it is a certain Rule Par in parem non habet imperium Equals have no power over one another And if so then the Church of Rome hath no reason to expect our compliance with every thing which she thinks fit to require of us II. As they ought to have a right to rule over us so their commands ought to be such as we may without sin obey them otherwise the rule of the Apostles will dispense with us Act. 4.19 Whether it be better to obey God or Man judge ye Now whether they be so or no how can we tell if we are not allowed before-hand to know what they are These things being thus premised I dare now venture any unbyassed Reader to be the Judge whether by virtue of this Precept the Church of Rome may justly challenge a power to impose what Observances and Constitutions she pleaseth upon the whole Christian World For that is truly the question between us Having considered the Precept by him procured and found him mistaken in it Let us now consider his argument from Primitive Practice and see whether that will stand him in any more stead This he tells us was the practice of the Apostles even of St. Paul himself and Silas who as they went through the Cities they delivered them the Decrees for to keep that were ordained of the Apostles and Elders which were at Jerusalem And so were the Churches established in the Faith Acts xvi 4 5. The Apostolical Council held at Jerusalem having finished their Decrees commissionated Paul and Barnabas with Judas and Silas to publish the same among the Brethren that were of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia Acts c. xv v. 22 23. These Men faithfully discharged their duty in performing their Commission and their so doing had a good effect for thereby the Churches were established in the Faith and increased in number daily Now what is all this to the Vindicator's purpose Will it necessarily follow That because Paul and Silas published the Apostles Decrees in these places Therefore the Church of Rome may impose what Ordinances and Constitutions she will upon all Christians If not I do not see what good this instance of Apostolical Practice will do the Vindicator I also admit the Holy Scripture according to that Sence which our Holy Mother the Church has held and does hold to whom it belongs to judge of the true Sence and Interpretation thereof Nor will I ever admit or interpret it otherwise than according to the unanimous consent of the Holy Fathers WHAT Tertullian said merrily of the Heathens in his time Tertul. in Apologetico Vnless God please Man well He shall be no God and so now Man must be friendly and favourable unto God may with a little variation be here applied to the Church of Rome Vnless the Holy Scriptures please Her well they shall be no Scriptures For unless they speak according to Her Sence they are not to be admitted it belonging to Her to judge of the true Sence and Interpretation of them For I do not at all doubt but it is of that Church that this Article speaks and which it stiles Our Holy Mother the Church And for this I have the warrant of Pope Pius himself who in his XXIII Article stiles it The Holy Catholick and Apostolick Roman Church the Mother and Mistress of all Churches Nor indeed can it be otherwise understood for if the true Sence of Scripture must depend upon the Judgment of the Universal Church i. e. of all the Christians or at least of all the Bishops and Pastors in the World how is it possible to get them together to declare the Sence thereof or must we reject all Scripture till we have such a Declaration If you tell me that we must look for it in the unanimous consent of the Holy Fathers I answer I. That this is an impossible task for all sorts of Christians for Women and unlearned Men can never perform it if therefore their Salvation depend thereupon they must inevitably be damned II. Those that are learned and able to read and understand the Fathers do not find any such unanimous consent among them so that if according to this Article we must not admit the Scripture till they are all agreed about the Sence of it both learned and unlearned will for ever want a Rule to govern themselves by in the eternal concerns of their immortal Souls To avoid these difficulties The Church of Rome by Catholick understands the Roman Catholick Church and by Our Holy Mother the Church the Church of Rome which they call the Mother and Mistress of all Churches But will this make the business ever a jot the more easie Must all the Christians in the World out of Greece Egypt and many other more remote parts repair to Rome to receive the true Sence and Interpretation of the Scriptures Or if they do are they sure to meet with it when they come there Will they not find as much difference in opinions between the Doctors of that Church as of any other Will they not find that Councils have contradicted Councils and Popes condemned Popes And if so where then can they hope to meet with an infallible Interpretation of the Holy Scriptures To this may be added That if it belong to the Church to judge of the true Sence

did frequently relax some part of their penance And if this be all that is intended by Indulgences we shall not much quarrel with him about them but I am apt to think that this Gentleman will find but few of his own Communion who will be so ready to comply with him herein as we are There are two eminent persons of his own Church if he has any acquaintance with them viz. Greg. de Valentia Greg. de Valentia de Indulg c. 2. Bellarm. de Indulg l. 1. c. 7. and Cardinal Bellarmine who if he please to consult them in this matter will tell him another tale The former will assure him That this opinion differs not from that of the Hereticks and makes Indulgences to be useless and dangerous things And the latter will inform him That if this opinion be true then there will be no need of the Treasure of the Church and that Indulgences will be rather hurtful than profitable It is plain That these Doctors had a far different notion of Indulgences from that which the Vindicator here would perswade us to But it may be he will appeal from them as private Doctors which if he do whither will he send us to learn the Intention of the Church in this matter The Council is silent and gives us no Definition of the thing established by it and their chief Pastor who by the Bull of Pope Pius IV. is made the sole Interpreter of that Council hath not by any publick Act that we ever yet heard of declared the sence of the Council in this Decree So that we are still left either to spell out the intention of the Church in the Writings of their approved Doctors or else to guess at it by the practices of their supreme Pastors As to the former I have already given you a taste in two eminent Instances and might without any great trouble furnish you with many more And for the latter we need go no farther than the Tax of the Apostolick Chamber and the Bullarium in the former of which you may find Rates set which being paid an Indulgence may be had for almost any kind of Sin. And in the latter you have an account of several Bulls of Indulgence by several Popes Vide Bullar Tom. I. p. 204. Tom. III. p. 74 Tom. IV. p. 86. wherein a plenary and most plenary Remission of Sins and of all Sins is granted Which certainly must amount to more than a bare Relaxation of some part of Canonical Penance or else the poor People who purchased them were horribly cheated both of their Money and Expectations And if this be their notion of Indulgences we do not believe that any such power was ever given or left by Christ to his Church or that the use of it is at all beneficial to the Faithful I acknowledge the Holy Catholick and Apostolick Roman Church the Mother and Mistress of all other Churches and I promise and swear true Obedience to the Bishop of Rome Successor of St. Peter Prince of the Apostles and Vicar of Jesus Christ. THE Vindicator foreseeing what Objection might be made to the Catholicism of the Roman Church begins his defence of this Article with an explanation of that Title telling us That as the Catholick or universal Church signifies a Church consisting of all particular Churches united in the Communion of the same Faith and Sacraments and submission to the same Ecclesiastical Government the Church of Rome is not the universal or Catholick Church but a part of it but as it imports a Church which is universal in its influence and by a singular privilege hath Authority over all other particular Churches and is the Center of their Communion the Church of Rome in this sence is the Catholick or universal Church and is rightly stiled the Mother and Mistress of all other particular Churches This Notion of the Catholick Church is liable to as many if not more Objections than the other For 1. Where or by whom was ever the Catholick or Universal Church understood to import a particular Church endowed with universal Influence 2. By what singular privilege hath any particular Church this universal Influence or Authority over all other particular Churches seeing par in parem non habet imperium 3. Whence had the Church of Rome this singular Privilege Was it from God or of Men If from God let her produce her Charter if of Men then those who gave it were superior to her to whom it was given and certainly they did not give away their own Superiority and if not then the Church of Rome instead of being a Mother and Mistress must own her self to be a Daughter and Handmaid to another 4. When where or by whom was the Church of Rome ever made or owned to be the Center of Catholick Union or Communion These Questions I doubt will not be quickly answered and till we are satisfied in these and some others we shall hardly be perswaded to subscribe this Article But why not The Vindicator assures us This was the Doctrine of the first Ages of the Church and if so then ought we rather to suspect our own Judgments than distrust theirs To this I answer That if this was the Doctrine of the first Ages then Pope Gregory the Great who certainly was as Infallible as any other Pope was mightily mistaken For when John Bishop of Constantinople did arrogantly assume to himself the Title of Oecumenic or Vniversal Bishop Gregory sharply reproves him for it and tells him Gregor l. 4. Epist 38 39. c. It is a New Name a wicked profane insolent Name the general plague of the Church a corruption of the Faith against Canons against the Apostle Peter and against God himself And he farther adds That never any Godly Man never any of his Predecessors used those Titles and whosoever doth or shall use them is the very Fore-runner of Antichrist From whence it is plain that before his time which was about Six hundred Years after Christ there never was any pretence made to it But the Vindicator says there was and that it was the Doctrine of the first Ages Now whether Gregory or this Gentleman be in the right is the thing in question The Vindicator to make good his ground urgeth us with the Authority of Irenaeus l. 3. c. 3. adv Haer. where he saith That the Church of Rome is the greatest and most ancient of all others founded and established there by the Two most Glorious Apostles Peter and Paul. 'T is necessary that every Church should recurr to this by reason of its more powerful principality To this I answer That Irenaeus in that Book writeth against Valentinus Cerdon and Marcion who contrary to the Doctrine of the Apostles had devised certain strange Heresies for trial whereof he appeals to those Churches which the Apostles had planted saying The Church of Ephesus first instructed by St. Paul and afterward continued by St. John is a sufficient witness of the Apostles

the reasons of it are expressed at large in the Epistle of that Council to Pope Coelestinus Thus have I considered the Proofs brought for Vindication of this important Article and having laid them in the Balance have found them all too light But he hath yet one Authority more not from Antiquity but from a Modern Author and one of our own viz. the Reverend and learned Doctor Sherlock This I confess Disc of the Knowl of Jes Christ p. 163. I did not expect for who would ever have thought that that worthy Gentleman should ever have been brought upon the Stage as an Advocate for the Popes Supremacy But this Gentleman thinks that whatsoever is said by any Body touching Order and Discipline in the Church and the necessity of subjection and obedience to the Governors thereof must needs terminate in the Pope who they say is the Center of Unity though in so saying they do but beg the Question For we can with great cheerfulness and willingness subscribe to all that Dr. Sherlock hath there said and yet think our selves never a jot the more obliged to swear Obedience to the Bishop of Rome I undoubtedly receive and profess all other things delivered defined and declared by the Sacred Canons and General Councils and particularly by the Holy Council of Trent and I condemn reject and anathematize all things contrary thereunto and all Heresies whatsoever the Church hath condemned rejected and Anathematized THIS he tells us is the consequence of that Doctrine of our Creed wherein we profess to believe The Holy Catholick Church But how comes this to be the consequence of that Doctrine Very naturally for the Church of Rome is this Catholick Church 'T is boldly said but how doth this appear Very plainly for there are the greatest reasons in the world to believe it So that now we must either show our selves to be unreasonable Men or else of necessity we must subscribe this Article But are we obliged to take all this upon the bare word of the Vindicator May we not look into and consider these reasons whether they be so great and good as he talks of Surely we may or else he would not have exposed them to publick view Well then let us see what they are R. 1. His first Reason is Because the Church of Rome has continued in a visible Succession of Pastors from Christ's time till now Ans The point of Succession hath been already considered and I think enough said to show the unreasonableness of that Plea. But because he so much insists upon the visible Succession of Persons in the same place let me ask him two or three questions 1. Who was the Bishop of Rome next by Succession to Peter who the second who the third who the fourth For in this they are not yet well agreed Some say Linus was the second others say Clemens Some say Anacletus was the third others say Clemens Some say Anacletus was the fourth others say Anacletus 2. Whether an Heretick or a Necromancer or a Blasphemer being in the Chair be the true Successor of St. Peter and if not whether that do not break the Line of Succession 3. Whether when there was no Pope for some Years the visible succession of Pastors in that Church was not discontinued 4. When there were three or four Popes at one and the same time and not known who was the true one there was not an apparent interruption of their visible succession R. 2. Because the Church of Rome never went out of or separated from any precedent Church but all other separate Congregations have gone out from her Ans If by going out of or separating from any precedent Church he mean departing from the Doctrine and renouncing the Discipline of that Church which he must do if he mean any thing then we say That in both these the present Church of Rome hath gone out of and separated from the Primitive Church as hath been plainly made appear in this Discourse And that those who separate from her do not separate from the Church but from the corruptions of that particular Church which they are well warranted to do by St. Paul who having told the Corinthians That there can be no fellowship between Righteousness and Unrighteousness no Communion between Light and Darkness no Concord between Christ and Belial nor any Agreement between the Temple of God and Idols at last thus inferrs Wherefore come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord and touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you 2 Cor. vi 14 15 16 17. Because the Church of Rome hath sent Apostles abroad and converted all Heathen Nations to Christianity R. 3. Ans This is so notoriously false and so well known to be so to every one that hath but looked into Church History in which we have an account of most Nations when and by whom they were converted that I cannot but wonder at the Confidence of this Gentleman in asserting it But if we should grant him this would it thence follow That the Church of Rome is the Catholick Church Might I not as well reason thus The Scribes and Pharisees compass Sea and Land to gain Proselytes therefore those two Sects were the whole Jewish Church Because the Church of Rome in publick Synods has opposed and condemn'd in all Ages arising Heresies R. 4. This is as notoriously false as the former Ans as is plain from those two Instances of the Milevitan and African Councils which I mentioned in the precedent Article and might easily be made more plainly appear by Instances of other Councils which have not only not desired but rejected the Authority of the Church of Rome when it would have inposed But the thing is so well known that I shall not need to do it These are all the Reasons he alledgeth and these he tells us are the greatest in the World. If they be so the World is in an ill condition and men like the great Nebuchadnezzar may be sent now to graze amongst the Beasts of the Field having lost their Reason I am of Doctor Sherlock's mind That Men cannot own the Authority and Government of Christ till they submit to the publick Instructions Authority and Discipline of the Church But what is all this to the Church of Rome's being the Catholick Church 'T is plain he doth not say it and I am well assured he never meant it I subscribe to St. Austin's Judgment That particular Councils Aug. de Bapt. cont Don. l. 2. c. 9. must yield to General because the whole is deservedly preferred before a part But did ever any Council either particular or General decree a part to be the whole or a particular Church to be the Catholick Church If not I do not see how the Vindicator can avail himself of this passage nor for what end he did produce it Thus it appears that the New Articles in Pope Pius his Creed are neither agreeable to Scripture nor the Sence of