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sense_n catholic_n church_n member_n 1,642 5 8.9783 5 false
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A25582 An answer to the champion of the wooden-sword, or, A dialogue betwixt Jack and Will containing that part of his argument wherein he asserts, viz, that the dissenters are members of the Church of England : with some occasional remarks on head-corporation-magistrates as dissenters / by a member of the Church of England.; Answer to a rash dialogue betwixt Jack and Will Member of the Church of England. 1698 (1698) Wing A3396; ESTC R18032 10,579 23

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Come come Jack leave off thy fooling and talk more honourably of thy Brethren J. Yes yes Friend when they deserve it But have a little patience and I 'll make it out W. You never can J. I 'll try that and then we 'll talk to the Wooden-Sword Thou knowest Will the first have added many Inventions to the pure Doctrines of the Christian Faith and therefore all those who protest against Her have Reform'd upon that account W. Very good J. Thou knowest likewise there are Doctrines of Worship and Doctrines of Discipline in that Holy Religion W. Well! J. Now if our Dissenters at home to speak the naked truth and some of the Reform'd abroad substract these Doctrines from the total account or at best are corrupt and deficient in what will you say then W. These are * P. 8. only Circumstantials Jack J. Thou' rt in a grand mistake Will. They are Essentials and an Article of my Creed bearing a principal Relation to the Communion of Saints And you may have heard Will that the Hugonots of France finding the absolute Necessity of Episcopacy to the Constituting a true Church su'd to their Parliament for establish'd Bishops and what Answer was given to it why a great Man told this King then they 'll have the Face of a Church And if Episcopacy be so necessary to the true and complete Communion of Saints then the Doctrines of Worship and Discipline drawn out by that high Order of the Holy Scripture cannot but be necessary too But if you 'd contend about this Matter you 'd best set about the Confutation of those Ancient and † Among which are Dr. Scot. Modern Writers who have sufficiently clear'd that Point already Will. P. 5.8.11 c. Well Jack I ever said thou' rt hot headed Thus wou'd you at one blow cut off all our Dissenting Brethren from the Communion and from the Privileges of the Church of England J. Thou' rt in a grand mistake again Will. It is not I or the Church cut off any from her Communion or Privileges but Obstinacy and Self-conceit Thou knowest Friend the Protestant Name of this Kingdom was first founded in the Church of England as by Law established And that our Martyr'd Reformers first settled it among us according to the present Constitution of that Church or with very little difference And tho' our Brethren pretend to be wiser than those Reformers and make a second Reformation yet I cannot but think it hath authority sufficient to recommend it to all honest Englishmen who delight not in Kickshaws and Novelties Nor can there be any solid grounds of Dispute about those things that you and I and all honest Men cannot but * P. ult 8. acknowledge indifferent And therefore if Men will not be of the Church you cannot make 'em of the Church They cannot be † P. 12. Members of that Body of Protestants who are known by the Name of the Church of England that hate her Episcopacy her Liturgy and her Discipline since these are the things that distinguish Her from all other Churches Will. Well Friend Jack now you talk too severe J. It 's no severity but plain honest sense for if Men will not be of the true Church they are not of the true Church But those who reject the necessary Terms of Communion with the Catholick Church can never be sound Members of ours as far as they corrupt or make void the Essentials of the true Communion of Saints This I shou'd think a plain case And tho' it be confess'd indeed something may be given to mistaken Minds whose strength of understanding cannot reach the strength of those Arguments on which these Substantial Matters do depend and therefore our wise Law-givers have granted them Liberty without any diminution to their Honour or Prudence Yet from the Original of the Reformation it was not so Men were oblig'd to be instructed by their own proper Guides and not by ev'ry Corner-creeper who neither can justifie his Ministry or his Doctrine who may talk Blasphemy at his pleasure and no Man in the Meeting capable to contradict him who may trump up sedition boldly and have enough to side with him who with a whining Cant may pretend to Inspiration whenas his Discourse is so far from that as to be no better than plain down-right Non-sense And as I doubt not but that these are the Circumstances of many thousands of our deluded Brethren thus carry'd away by the slight of Men so I cou'd heartily wish some means might be found out to reconcile our Differences and create * P. 14. an hearty Union among Protestants That so such Persons might be throughly convinc'd of the Excellency of that Reformation so solemnly attested by no less than the Blood of our Martyrs as also first planted by them in the name of the Establish'd Church And you may observe withal that our Episcopacy our Liturgy our Ceremonies and our Discipline were left by them in very near the same form they now are And you know Will that some of them were Bishops themselves W. Well Jack upon granting you all this you still see the Dissenters * P. 6. on condition they subscribe to the Doctrine of the Church are qualify'd for Offices of Power and Trust J. True Will. But I have prov'd already how far they own the Doctrine of our Reformation and I observe farther that they are not qualify'd as Church of England Men but as they are English-men by subscribing to her Articles except three only they 're by vertue thereof admitted to Offices This is the full Sum of that Matter But you err Friend if you reckon them of * P. 12. that Body of Protestants who are known by the Name of the Church of England since you see they will not be so but obstinately refuse Communion with Her And you know very well the three Articles exempt such from acknowledging her Liturgy her Homilies and the Forms of Consecration of her Ministry which are the Principal things we differ about and the cause of their Schism from our Primitive Reformation So that such Persons as reject these are not by vertue of such subscribing rend'red thereby Members of her Religious Body since they will not be so but declare against her Original Reformation What can you make more of it And therefore no Dissenters however qualify'd can be incorporate into our Religious Body either as English-men or Protestants They are only left as they are Dissenters and call'd so all along in the Act. For I suppose the Parliament never design'd to create Impossibilities or create Contradictions at any time And therefore Friend you 'd do well to be more cautious how you rashly comprchend such Men within the Pale of the Church who will not be of the Church and who were never design'd by that August Assembly the Benefits of such a Comprehension Will. Pish Man Why so long a talk about the Church and that Reformation that came