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A15512 A modest briefe discussion of some points taught by M. Doctour Kellison in his treatise of the ecclesiasticall hierarchy. By Nicholas Smyth Knott, Edward, 1582-1656. 1630 (1630) STC 25779; ESTC S102767 83,544 218

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own_o argument_n or_o else_o both_o contradict_v himself_o &_o tax_v his_o holiness_n as_o have_v not_o yet_o sufficient_o provide_v for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o scotland_n because_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n the_o decree_n of_o canon_n the_o say_n of_o ancient_a father_n the_o doctrine_n of_o all_o catholic_n concern_v the_o necessity_n of_o have_v some_o bishop_n in_o god_n church_n concern_v ordinary_a pastor_n &_o prelate_n in_o the_o proper_a sense_n about_o mention_v &_o not_o delegate_n in_o a_o extraordinary_a manner_n and_o therefore_o as_o i_o say_v m._n doctor_n must_v defend_v himself_o against_o his_o own_o argument_n but_o lest_o i_o may_v seem_v to_o wrong_v so_o learned_a a_o man_n i_o desire_v the_o reader_n not_o to_o give_v i_o credit_n till_o in_o the_o follow_a several_a question_n he_o find_v by_o particular_n the_o truth_n of_o what_o i_o have_v deliver_v in_o general_n the_o second_o question_n whether_o 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imaginary_a precept_n not_o to_o be_v of_o such_o a_o kind_n he_o be_v as_o near_o as_o he_o be_v for_o certain_o if_o any_o cause_n may_v yield_v a_o lawful_a excuse_n or_o require_v dispensation_n a_o just_a fear_n of_o lose_v good_n liberty_n and_o life_n which_o case_n m._n doctor_n direct_o suppose_v in_o his_o assertion_n may_v yield_v a_o most_o reasonable_a excuse_n o●_n cause_n of_o dispensation_n and_o for_o the_o transgressor_n plead_v not_o guilty_a 16_o the_o reason_n which_o m_n doctor_n add_v that_o as_o the_o whole_a church_n have_v one_o supreme_a bishop_n to_o govern_v it_o so_o every_o particular_a church_n also_o must_v have_v we_o bishop_n or_o bishop_n else_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v a_o particular_a church_n and_o so_o t●e_v whole_a and_o universal_a church_n shall_v not_o as_o christ_n have_v institute_v be_v a_o hierarchy_n compose●_n of_o diverse_a particular_a church_n deierlein_v no_o answer_n for_o who_o dare_v say_v that_o there_o be_v as_o much_o necessity_n or_o obligation_n to_o have_v a_o bishop_n
adherent_n in_o schism_n devide_v themselves_o from_o their_o lawful_a pastor_n be_v no_o true_a church_n ergo_fw-la english_a catholic_n live_v in_o perfect_a obedience_n to_o the_o vicar_n of_o christ_n can_v be_v true_o a_o church_n which_o in_o effect_n be_v as_o doughty_a a_o argument_n as_o this_o the_o soul_n and_o bo●y_o separate_v can_v make_v no_o true_a ma●●ergo_v if_o they_o be_v conicy●ed_v they_o can_v make_v a_o true_a man_n for_o as_o the_o conjunction_n of_o the_o soul_n with_o the_o body_n give_v life_n to_o the_o body_n so_o the_o life_n of_o the_o church_n consist_v in_o obedience_n to_o true_a &_o lawful_a pastor_n to_o who_o english_a catholic_n be_v still_o subordmate_n they_o do_v and_o do_v most_o perfect_o fulfil_v the_o definition_n of_o a_o church_n give_v by_o s._n cyprian_n which_o therefore_o make_v nothing_o against_o but_o for_o we_o &_o that_o it_o be_v rather_o against_o m._n doctor_n himself_o may_v be_v evince_v out_o of_o a_o argument_n of_o he_o chap._n 12._o num_fw-la 4._o where_n have_v cite_v the_o say_a authority_n of_o s._n cyprian_a that_o the_o church_n be_v the_o people_n unite_v to_o the_o bishop_n he_o argue_v thus_o see_v there_o can_v be_v a_o people_n unite_v to_o the_o bishop_n without_o a_o bishop_n it_o follow_v that_o there_o can_v be_v a_o church_n without_o bishop_n now_o according_a to_o the_o clear_a sense_n of_o s._n cyprian_n word_n namely_o that_o a_o people_n which_o be_v in_o disobedience_n &_o schism_n against_o their_o lawful_a bishop_n can_v be_v a_o true_a church_n i_o may_v use_v the_o very_a same_o form_n of_o argument_n thus_o whosoever_o be_v not_o in_o schism_n with_o any_o lawful_a bishop_n do_v fulfil_v the_o definition_n of_o a_o church_n give_v by_o s._n cyprian_n but_o those_o who_o have_v no_o bishop_n be_v not_o in_o schism_n with_o any_o lawful_a bishop_n ergo_fw-la those_o who_o have_v no_o bishop_n do_v fulfil_v the_o definition_n of_o a_o church_n give_v by_o s._n cyprian_n this_o argument_n be_v direct_o against_o m._n doctor_n &_o yet_o be_v more_o true_o deduce_v out_o of_o s._n cyprian_n word_n then_o what_o he_o do_v ●●ferie_n i_o know_v the_o church_n must_v always_o for_o other_o respect_n have_v bishop_n and_o therefore_o what_o i_o have_v here_o say_v be_v only_o ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la to_o m._n doctor_n manner_n of_o dispute_v and_o only_o if_o we_o respect_v s._n cyprian_n word_n according_a to_o the_o true_a meaning_n purpose_n and_o occasion_n as_o by_o he_o they_o be_v utter_v 7_o that_o his_o application_n of_o s._n cyprian_n definition_n be_v injurious_a to_o english_a catholic_n be_v manife_a by_o every_o word_n of_o the_o saint_n who_o affirm_v that_o they_o who_o be_v not_o unite_v to_o the_o bishop_n in_o that_o sense_n in_o which_o he_o speak_v be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n that_o they_o have_v not_o peace_n with_o the_o priest_n of_o god_n that_o they_o be_v in_o secret_a communion_n with_o schismatics_n that_o they_o be_v opposite_a to_o that_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v one_o and_o not_o rend_v nor_o deved●d●_n which_o gentle_a epitheton_n or_o rather_o most_o ●o●le_a aspersion_n to_o cast_v upon_o the_o most_o ●e●lo_n be_v catholic_n of_o england_n who_o for_o their_o union_n with_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a constancy_n in_o profession_n of_o their_o faith_n ioyf●ll_o suffer_v loss_n of_o good_n liberty_n and_o life_n have_v be_v a_o spectacle_n gration_n in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n and_o his_o angel_n and_o admirable_a to_o the_o eye_n of_o man_n to_o apply_v i_o say_v such_o epitheton_n to_o those_o glorious_a confessor_n &_o martyr_n our_o english_a catholic_n can_v be_v do_v without_o great_a injury_n and_o yet_o by_o m._n doctor_n the_o say_a definition_n of_o s._n cyprian_n be_v to_o they_o more_o than_o once_o apply_v and_o true_o i_o shall_v not_o be_v able_a to_o wonder_n enough_o how_o a_o learned_a man_n can_v lay_v the_o foundation_n of_o so_o strange_a a_o doctrine_n upon_o a_o ground_n so_o weak_a &_o so_o much_o mistake_v for_o the_o true_a understanding_n whereof_o be_v require_v no_o great_a i_o bour_o then_o look_v on_o the_o book_n nor_o deep_a learning_n then_o understand_v latin_a unless_o i_o do_v consider_v that_o such_o a_o doctrine_n can_v have_v but_o such_o a_o foundation_n but_o i_o will_v urge_v this_o point_n no_o further_o only_a m._n doctor_n may_v gather_v from_o what_o have_v be_v say_v that_o the_o true_a explication_n &_o reason_n of_o those_o word_n in_o s._n cyprian_n allege_v by_o he_o in_o his_o 12_o chap._n num_fw-la 4_o unde_fw-la seire_n debes_fw-la episcopum_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la esse_fw-la et_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la in_o episcopo_fw-la where_o upon_o thou_o must_v know_v that_o the_o bishop_n be_v in_o the_o church_n and_o the_o church_n in_o the_o bishop_n which_o word_n we_o also_o even_o now_o cite_v be_v not_o that_o which_o m._n doctor_n give_v because_o the_o church_n can_v be_v without_o a_o bishop_n nor_o a_o bishop_n without_o a_o church_n but_o that_o suppose_v a_o church_n have_v a_o true_a bishop_n they_o must_v not_o be_v divide_v one_o from_o another_o and_o therefore_o s._n cyprian_n immediate_o after_o the_o say_v word_n add_v qui_fw-la cum_fw-la episcopo_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la in_o ealesia_n non_fw-la est_fw-la he_o that_o be_v not_o with_o the_o bishop_n be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v english_a catholic_n while_o they_o want_v a_o bishop_n be_v in_o the_o church_n other_o wise_a they_o have_v not_o be_v capable_a of_o falcation_n but_o by_o this_o we_o may_v see_v how_o ground_o m._n doctor_n do_v speak_v and_o still_o confirm_v what_o i_o say_v of_o the_o i●●ury_n do_v to_o english_a catholic_n by_o apply_v to_o they_o the_o definition_n of_o s._n cyprian_n 8_o the_o second_o point_n which_o i_o undertake_v to_o make_v good_a namely_o that_o england_n may_v be_v a_o particular_a church_n without_o a_o bishop_n be_v easy_o prove_v for_o the_o pope_n in_o defect_n of_o particular_a bishop_n be_v the_o particular_a bishop_n ordinary_a &_o diocesan_n of_o such_o church_n as_o philosopher_n do_v teach_v that_o almighty_a god_n the_o supreme_a and_o umuc●sall_a cause_n of_o all_o effect_n concur_v not_o only_o as_o immediate_a but_o also_o as_o a_o particular_a agent_n or_o cause_n to_o the_o produce_v of_o effect_n when_o second_o particular_a cause_n do_v fail_v for_o see_v the_o pope_n have_v plenitudinem_fw-la potestatis_fw-la fullness_n &_o eminency_n of_o power_n he_o may_v and_o be_v to_o perform_v whatsoever_o belong_v to_o inferior_a pastor_n when_o necessity_n so_o require_v which_o be_v a_o doctrine_n so_o receive_v by_o all_o canomst_n and_o divine_v that_o i_o suppose_v m._n doctor_n will_v not_o gainsay_v it_o see_v then_o england_n for_o many_o year_n be_v destitute_a of_o bishop_n the_o pope_n himself_o be_v our_o particular_a bishop_n and_o to_o say_v that_o while_o we_o want_v 〈◊〉_d bishop_n we_o be_v a_o flock_n without_o a_o pastor_n a_o army_n without_o a_o general_n a_o ship_n without_o a_o pilot_n etc._n etc._n as_o m._n doctor_n avouch_v seem_v injurious_a to_o the_o vicar_n of_o christ_n as_o if_o he_o want_v either_o power_n or_o good_a will_n to_o be_v our_o particular_a bishop_n and_o pastor_n and_o indeed_o to_o singular_a have_v be_v the_o care_n of_o pope_n over_o our_o distress_a england_n that_o in_o fact_n they_o ever_o show_v themselves_o to_o be_v our_o particular_a bishop_n and_o may_v true_o say_v to_o our_o church_n as_o almighty_a god_n say_v to_o his_o elect_a people_n quid_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la debui_fw-la ultrà_fw-la facere_fw-la vineae_fw-la meae_fw-la &_o non_fw-la feci_fw-la 4_o isa_n 5._o v._n 4_o what_o ought_v i_o to_o have_v do_v to_o my_o vineyard_n more_o than_o i_o have_v do_v we_o erect_v seminary_n we_o send_v learned_a priest_n both_o secular_a and_o regular_a we_o endue_v they_o with_o a●ple_a faculty_n as_o judge_n we_o compose_v difrerence_n as_o master_n we_o resolve_v doubt_n as_o father_n we_o write_v letter_n of_o comfort_n of_o exhortation_n of_o admonition_n as_o bishop_n we_o pround_v all_o spiritual_a help_n requisite_a for_o the_o time_n in_o nothing_o belong_v ●o_o particular_a pastor_n we_o have_v be_v w●nting_v quid_fw-la debuimus_fw-la ultra_fw-la fac●●e_fw-la et_fw-la non_fw-la fecimus_fw-la what_o more_o can_v we_o have_v do_v than_o we_o have_v perform_v for_o the_o good_a of_o our_o belove_a english_a catholic_n the_o church_n of_o s._n john_n lateran_n or_o the_o particular_a diocese_n of_o rome_n be_v i_o trow_v a_o particular_a church_n &_o a_o perfect_a o●e_n yet_o it_o have_v no_o other_o bishop_n for_o ordinary_a beside_o the_o pope_n leo_fw-la the_o 9_o famous_a for_o sanctity_n and_o miracle_n be_v before_o his_o popedom_n b●shop_n of_o tul_n for_o his_o affection_n to_o that_o church_n do_v still_o remain_v particular_a