have_v not_o believe_v be_v not_o man_n willing_a to_o be_v contentious_a may_v end_v the_o controversy_n and_o for_o the_o authority_n you_o speak_v of_o that_o it_o be_v ridiculous_a to_o pretend_v prescription_n for_o that_o which_o have_v not_o the_o least_o foundation_n neither_o in_o holy_a writ_n nor_o in_o primitive_a christianity_n of_o which_o not_o one_o instance_n appear_v for_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n and_o much_o to_o the_o contrary_n 103._o 16._o reply_v p._n 21._o 21._o 16._o to_o this_o you_o now_o reply_v in_o your_o margin_n with_o great_a assurance_n protestant_n destitute_a of_o scripture_n proof_n against_o the_o doctrine_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n but_o all_o you_o have_v to_o say_v in_o the_o book_n be_v that_o you_o do_v not_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o the_o saint_n nor_o call_v upon_o they_o in_o that_o strict_a sense_n in_o which_o they_o be_v duty_n only_o to_o be_v pay_v to_o god._n that_o be_v to_o say_v you_o play_v with_o word_n and_o make_v use_n of_o such_o distinction_n as_o if_o they_o be_v allow_v a_o man_n may_v evacuate_v any_o other_o of_o god_n command_n without_o a_o possibility_n of_o be_v confute_v and_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o tell_v i_o what_o answer_v you_o will_v make_v a_o impudent_a woman_n that_o shall_v give_v her_o husband_n bed_n to_o another_o and_o be_v charge_v by_o you_o for_o break_v the_o seven_o commandment_n shall_v tell_v you_o that_o you_o be_v not_o to_o be_v so_o uncharitable_a as_o to_o judge_v of_o what_o she_o do_v by_o the_o external_n act_n that_o the_o law_n forbid_v only_o lie_v with_o another_o man_n as_o with_o her_o husband_n and_o that_o in_o this_o strict_a sense_n she_o be_v still_o innocent_a by_o reserve_v that_o high_a degree_n of_o conjugal_a affection_n to_o he_o only_o the_o give_v whereof_o to_o another_o will_v make_v her_o guilty_a 104._o but_o since_o you_o be_v so_o desirous_a to_o know_v what_o our_o reason_n against_o this_o invocation_n be_v i_o will_v now_o very_o free_o lay_v they_o before_o you_o if_o you_o will_v first_o give_v i_o leave_v only_o to_o prepare_v the_o way_n for_o they_o by_o state_v true_o the_o difference_n between_o we_o in_o this_o matter_n which_o you_o be_v wonderful_o apt_a either_o to_o mistake_v or_o to_o palliate_v 105._o you_o tell_v we_o in_o your_o vindication_n 2._o vind._n p._n 30._o repl._n p._n 11._o expos_fw-la sect._n iu._n p._n 5._o papist_n rept_v n._n 2._o p._n 2._o that_o all_o you_o say_v be_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n and_o so_o again_o in_o your_o reply_n the_o difference_n you_o say_v between_o we_o be_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o we_o to_o beseech_v or_o entreat_v they_o to_o pray_v for_o we_o mounseur_fw-fr de_fw-fr meaux_n in_o the_o same_o moderate_a way_n tell_v we_o that_o the_o church_n teach_v that_o it_o be_v profitable_a to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n and_o the_o representer_n from_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n say_v of_o a_o true_a papist_n that_o his_o church_n teach_v he_o and_o he_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v good_a and_o profitable_a to_o desire_v the_o intercession_n of_o the_o saint_n reign_v with_o christ_n in_o heaven_n in_o your_o discourse_n with_o those_o of_o our_o communion_n there_o be_v nothing_o more_o ordinary_a with_o you_o than_o to_o make_v they_o believe_v that_o you_o value_v not_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n nor_o condemn_v any_o for_o not_o do_v it_o that_o if_o this_o be_v all_o they_o scruple_n in_o your_o religion_n they_o shall_v be_v receive_v free_o by_o you_o and_o never_o pray_v to_o a_o saint_n as_o long_o as_o they_o live_v nay_o i_o have_v hear_v of_o some_o who_o have_v go_v so_o far_o in_o this_o matter_n as_o to_o venture_v their_o religion_n upon_o it_o that_o you_o do_v not_o necessary_o require_v the_o practice_n or_o profession_n of_o this_o service_n at_o all_o nor_o pronounce_v any_o anathema_n against_o we_o for_o oppose_v of_o it_o 106._o but_o this_o be_v not_o ingenuous_a nor_o as_o become_v the_o disciple_n of_o christ_n for_o tell_v i_o now_o i_o beseech_v you_o if_o we_o unite_v ourselves_o to_o your_o church_n will_v you_o not_o oblige_v we_o to_o go_v to_o mass_n with_o you_o or_o can_v you_o dare_v for_o our_o sake_n to_o alter_v your_o service_n and_o leave_v out_o all_o those_o thing_n that_o relate_v to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n and_o to_o the_o saint_n in_o it_o shall_v we_o be_v excuse_v from_o have_v any_o thing_n to_o do_v with_o your_o litany_n and_o procession_n your_o vesper_n or_o your_o salve_n or_o will_v you_o purge_v all_o these_o too_o in_o order_n to_o our_o conversion_n when_o we_o lie_v in_o our_o last_o agony_n will_v you_o be_v content_a to_o anoint_v we_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o father_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n and_o leave_v the_o angel_n arch-angel_n patriarch_n prophet_n and_o apostle_n martyr_n confessor_n virgin_n and_o all_o the_o saint_n out_o of_o the_o commission_n and_o when_o our_o soul_n be_v now_o expire_a shall_v we_o be_v sure_a you_o will_v not_o then_o at_o least_o trouble_v we_o with_o that_o long_a beadroll_z which_z your_o office_n prescribe_v to_o be_v call_v upon_o in_o that_o ceremony_n if_o you_o have_v indeed_o the_o liberty_n to_o do_v this_o why_o do_v you_o not_o use_v it_o and_o remove_v so_o great_a a_o stumble_a block_n as_o this_o out_o of_o our_o way_n but_o if_o you_o can_v dispense_v with_o these_o thing_n for_o our_o common_a conversion_n how_o shall_v we_o believe_v that_o you_o can_v do_v it_o to_o satisfy_v a_o private_a proselyte_n 107._o the_o truth_n be_v invocation_n of_o saint_n in_o your_o church_n be_v not_o esteem_v so_o indifferent_a a_o matter_n as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o think_v to_o be_v it_o be_v a_o worship_n you_o suppose_v due_a to_o they_o and_o to_o which_o they_o acquire_v a_o right_n by_o their_o canonization_n so_o cardinal_n bellarmine_n inform_v we_o and_o therefore_o in_o your_o profession_n of_o faith_n set_v forth_o by_o the_o order_n of_o pope_n pius_n ivth_o you_o be_v oblige_v with_o a_o firm_a faith_n to_o believe_v and_o profess_v that_o the_o saint_n who_o reign_n together_o with_o christ_n be_v to_o be_v venerate_v and_o invoke_v and_o though_o the_o alarm_n which_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v in_o upon_o the_o news_n of_o the_o pope_n sickness_n and_o the_o haste_n which_o thereupon_o they_o make_v to_o conclude_v that_o synod_n permit_v they_o not_o to_o frame_v any_o canon_n in_o this_o last_o as_o they_o have_v do_v in_o the_o other_o session_n yet_o the_o material_n put_v together_o in_o the_o chapter_n show_v we_o what_o anathema_n will_v have_v be_v thunder_v against_o we_o 25._o council_n trid._n sess_n 25._o for_o to_o take_v it_o only_o as_o it_o lie_v in_o that_o session_n there_o we_o find_v the_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n command_v to_o teach_v what_o therefore_o i_o hope_v be_v undoubted_o the_o church_n sense_n in_o this_o point_n that_o the_o saint_n who_o reign_n together_o with_o christ_n offer_v up_o their_o prayer_n to_o god_n for_o man_n that_o it_o be_v good_a and_o profitable_a in_o a_o suppliant_a manner_n to_o call_v upon_o they_o and_o that_o for_o the_o obtain_n benefit_n of_o god_n by_o his_o son_n jesus_n christ_n our_o lord_n who_o be_v our_o only_a saviour_n and_o redeemer_n we_o shall_v fly_v to_o their_o prayer_n aid_n and_o assistance_n they_o declare_v that_o those_o who_o deny_v which_o you_o know_v we_o all_o do_v that_o the_o saint_n who_o enjoy_v eternal_a happiness_n in_o heaven_n be_v not_o to_o be_v invoke_v or_o say_v that_o this_o invocation_n be_v idolatry_n as_o we_o general_o believe_v it_o to_o be_v or_o that_o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n or_o derogatory_n to_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o one_o mediator_n between_o god_n and_o man_n christ_n jesus_n or_o that_o it_o be_v foolish_a to_o supplicate_v those_o who_o reign_n in_o heaven_n in_o word_n or_o in_o mind_n do_v think_v wicked_o 108._o these_o be_v the_o word_n of_o your_o council_n if_o therefore_o you_o permit_v your_o prosolytes_n to_o profess_v what_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v if_o you_o receive_v those_o as_o good_a catholic_n into_o your_o church_n who_o nevertheless_o you_o know_v to_o remain_v still_o infect_v with_o wicked_a opinion_n contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n establish_v among_o you_o if_o you_o allow_v they_o to_o assist_v at_o your_o prayer_n without_o any_o intention_n to_o join_v in_o they_o nay_o in_o a_o opinion_n that_o they_o can_v not_o pray_v with_o you_o without_o commit_v a_o grievous_a sin_n then_o go_v on_o to_o make_v folk_n believe_v as_o you_o do_v that_o you_o oblige_v no_o body_n to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n
as_o all_o papist_n do_v be_v by_o the_o proper_a sense_n of_o their_o word_n downright_a idolatry_n if_o they_o say_v their_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o figure_n only_o to_o desire_v they_o to_o procure_v their_o request_n of_o god_n how_o dare_v any_o christian_a trust_n his_o soul_n with_o that_o church_n which_o teach_v that_o which_o must_v needs_o be_v idolatry_n in_o all_o that_o understand_v not_o the_o figure_n 8._o such_o be_v the_o last_o judgement_n of_o this_o learned_a and_o pious_a man_n in_o this_o matter_n if_o after_o this_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o say_v any_o thing_n to_o his_o former_a opinion_n i_o will_v only_o observe_v that_o the_o ground_n of_o it_o be_v this_o mistake_n viz._n 1._o viz._n just_a weight_n and_o measure_n p._n 6._o edit_fw-la lond._n 1662._o cap._n 1._o that_o a_o christian_a church_n without_o renounce_v the_o profession_n of_o the_o true_a god_n can_v be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n now_o this_o 2153._o this_o de_fw-fr imag._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 24._o pag._n 2153._o card._n bellarmine_n himself_o and_o other_o of_o your_o church_n do_v utter_o deny_v for_o say_v he_o it_o be_v idolatry_n not_o only_a when_o one_o adore_v a_o idol_n leave_v god_n but_o also_o when_o a_o idol_n be_v adore_v together_o with_o god._n 9_o the_o last_o of_o your_o divine_n who_o you_o cite_v as_o excuse_v you_o from_o idolatry_n be_v the_o reverend_n 354._o reverend_n dr._n hammond_n pract._n disc_n lond._n 1674._o 1674._o 44._o p._n 351._o sect._n 50._o p._n 353_o 354._o dr._n hammond_n but_o your_o falseness_n be_v as_o notorious_a in_o he_o as_o in_o all_o the_o rest_n for_o in_o a_o particular_a discourse_n of_o idolatry_n idolatry_n 44._o he_o approve_v and_o explain_v the_o design_n of_o our_o homily_n against_o the_o peril_n of_o idolatry_n idolatry_n 50._o he_o say_v that_o your_o worship_v of_o image_n in_o the_o most_o moderate_a way_n that_o can_v be_v be_v for_o aught_o he_o know_v a_o kind_n of_o idolworship_n but_o to_o be_v sure_o a_o prohibit_v act_n act_n 54._o that_o to_o put_v up_o those_o petition_n to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n which_o be_v terminate_v in_o herself_o 354._o sect._n 54._o p._n 354._o as_o many_o form_n if_o not_o her_o whole_a office_n may_v appear_v to_o be_v be_v act_n parallel_v to_o the_o old_a idolatry_n 355._o sect._n 56._o p._n 355._o 355._o 56._o that_o your_o worship_v of_o image_n notwithstanding_o all_o your_o distinction_n of_o worship_v god_n mediante_o imagine_v 357._o sect._n 64._o p._n 357._o or_o relative_a etc._n etc._n be_v idolatry_n idolatry_n 64._o that_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o bread_n in_o the_o sacrament_n must_v certain_o be_v idolatry_n that_o your_o error_n about_o transubstantiation_n and_o your_o good_a design_n of_o worship_v christ_n there_o may_v he_o hope_v be_v some_o excuse_n for_o you_o but_o that_o your_o opinion_n will_v not_o hinder_v it_o from_o be_v at_o least_o material_a idolatry_n and_o the_o worship_v of_o something_o that_o be_v not_o god._n 10._o so_o that_o now_o upon_o the_o whole_a it_o remain_v that_o there_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o a_o shadow_n of_o truth_n in_o your_o assertion_n that_o the_o true_a and_o genuine_a son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v excuse_v your_o church_n of_o the_o odious_a imputation_n of_o idolatry_n my_o next_o business_n be_v to_o show_v that_o you_o do_v or_o ought_v to_o have_v know_v that_o there_o be_v not_o one_o word_n of_o truth_n in_o what_o you_o say_v 11._o now_o this_o will_v depend_v upon_o the_o answer_n which_o i_o shall_v leave_v any_o honest_a man_n to_o give_v to_o these_o two_o plain_a question_n 1._o whether_o when_o you_o steal_v all_o this_o out_o of_o t._n g._n you_o either_o do_v not_o or_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v know_v that_o dr._n st._n have_v answer_v all_o these_o cavil_v many_o year_n since_o and_o show_v that_o there_o be_v no_o truth_n nor_o sincerity_n in_o they_o 2._o whether_o a_o man_n that_o quote_v but_o six_o author_n for_o a_o assertion_n derogatory_n to_o the_o establishment_n of_o their_o church_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o public_a doctrine_n of_o the_o homily_n and_o injunction_n and_o to_o the_o private_a opinion_n of_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o divine_n of_o it_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v be_v sure_a that_o those_o author_n at_o least_o do_v affirm_v that_o which_o he_o pretend_v they_o do_v the_o latter_a of_o these_o will_v conclude_v against_o you_o that_o you_o ought_v to_o have_v know_v that_o what_o you_o here_o say_v be_v false_a because_o you_o ought_v to_o have_v examine_v these_o author_n and_o then_o you_o will_v have_v know_v it_o to_o be_v so_o and_o for_o the_o former_a be_v not_o your_o conscience_n unfit_a to_o be_v appeal_v to_o in_o a_o matter_n of_o truth_n against_o yourself_o i_o dare_v appeal_v to_o your_o own_o soul_n whether_o you_o do_v not_o know_v that_o the_o learned_a man_n i_o have_v so_o often_o mention_v have_v show_v t._n g._n how_o false_a these_o pretence_n be_v but_o i_o go_v on_o with_o you_o to_o your_o next_o paragraph_n where_o you_o tell_v i_o 12._o ad_fw-la pag._n 2._o reply_n you_o will_v glad_o know_v wherefore_o at_o this_o time_n i_o charge_v you_o with_o the_o odious_a imputation_n of_o adore_a man_n and_o woman_n cross_n and_o image_n etc._n etc._n answ_n to_o satisfy_v you_o in_o which_o demand_n i_o reply_v 1._o that_o i_o charge_v you_o with_o this_o because_o it_o be_v true_a and_o i_o have_v both_o show_v it_o already_o and_o will_v yet_o far_o show_v it_o to_o be_v so_o 2._o i_o do_v it_o at_o this_o time_n because_o at_o this_o time_n you_o have_v the_o confidence_n to_o deny_v it_o nay_o to_o charge_v we_o with_o calumny_n and_o misrepresentation_n for_o have_v ever_o accuse_v you_o of_o it_o so_o that_o your_o wise_a question_n be_v in_o effect_n but_o this_o we_o the_o vindicator_n and_o representer_n of_o new_a popery_n have_v public_o expose_v you_o to_o the_o world_n as_o a_o pack_n of_o knave_n that_o have_v misrepresent_v our_o doctrine_n and_o wherefore_o do_v you_o go_v about_o to_o vindicate_v yourselves_o and_o not_o suffer_v we_o to_o make_v silly_a people_n believe_v in_o quiet_a that_o what_o we_o say_v be_v true_a 13._o ibid._n reply_n where_o say_v you_o do_v i_o find_v any_o thing_n of_o this_o in_o the_o 39_o article_n and_o for_o the_o book_n of_o homily_n i_o must_v be_v little_o verse_v in_o our_o own_o doctrine_n not_o to_o know_v that_o several_a eminent_a divine_n of_o our_o own_o church_n do_v not_o allow_v that_o book_n to_o contain_v in_o every_o part_n of_o it_o the_o dogmatical_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n thus_o t._n g._n speak_v into_o your_o mouth_n and_o you_o as_o his_o engine_n echo_v they_o to_o we_o t._n g's_o first_o answer_n to_o dr._n st._n pref._n p._n 8_o 9_o answ_n now_o to_o this_o you_o shall_v have_v know_v that_o dr_n st._n give_v this_o answer_n preface_n answer_v to_o several_a late_a treatise_n by_o dr._n still_o lond._n 1673._o the_o general_a preface_n that_o the_o article_n of_o our_o church_n have_v confirm_v those_o homily_n that_o these_o article_n be_v not_o only_o allow_v and_o approve_v by_o the_o queen_n but_o subscribe_v by_o the_o whole_a clergy_n in_o convocation_n anno._n 1571._o now_o say_v the_o dean_n i_o desire_v t._n g._n to_o resolve_v i_o whether_o man_n of_o any_o common_a understanding_n will_v have_v subscribe_v to_o this_o book_n of_o homily_n in_o this_o manner_n if_o they_o have_v believe_v the_o main_a doctrine_n and_o design_n of_o one_o of_o they_o have_v be_v false_a and_o pernicious_a as_o they_o must_v have_v do_v if_o they_o have_v think_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v free_a from_o idolatry_n i_o will_v put_v the_o case_n that_o any_o of_o the_o bishop_n than_o have_v think_v that_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n have_v be_v unjust_a and_o that_o it_o have_v subvert_v the_o foundation_n of_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n that_o there_o can_v have_v be_v no_o church_n or_o right_n of_o ordination_n if_o the_o roman_a church_n have_v be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n will_v they_o have_v insert_v this_o into_o the_o article_n when_o it_o be_v in_o their_o power_n to_o have_v leave_v it_o out_o and_o that_o the_o homily_n contain_v a_o wholesome_a and_o godly_a doctrine_n which_o in_o their_o conscience_n they_o believe_v to_o be_v false_a and_o pernicious_a i_o may_v as_o well_o think_v that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n will_v have_v allow_v calvin_n institution_n as_o contain_v a_o wholesome_a and_o godly_a doctrine_n as_o that_o man_n so_o persuade_v will_v have_v allow_v it_o the_o homily_n against_o the_o peril_n of_o idolatry_n 14._o for_o your_o objection_n from_o 10._o from_o t._n g_o his_o first_o answer_n to_o dr._n still_o pref._n pag._n
9_o 10._o t._n g._n that_o several_a eminent_a divine_n of_o our_o church_n do_v not_o allow_v that_o book_n to_o contain_v in_o every_o part_n of_o it_o the_o public_a dogmatical_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o three_o of_o who_o name_n from_o 10._o from_o t._n g_o his_o first_o answer_n to_o dr._n still_o pref._n pag._n 9_o 10._o t.g._n still_o you_o adorn_v your_o margin_n with_o he_o answer_v ibid._n answer_v dr._n still_o ibid._n be_v it_o so_o sure_o there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n between_o some_o particular_a passage_n and_o expression_n in_o these_o homily_n and_o that_o which_o be_v the_o main_a design_n and_o foundation_n of_o one_o of_o they_o but_o in_o this_o case_n we_o be_v to_o observe_v that_o they_o who_o deny_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n do_v not_o only_o look_v on_o the_o charge_n as_o false_a but_o as_o of_o dangerous_a consequence_n and_o therefore_o although_o man_n may_v subscribe_v to_o a_o book_n in_o general_a as_o contain_v wholesome_a and_o godly_a doctrine_n though_o they_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a of_o the_o truth_n of_o every_o passage_n in_o it_o yet_o they_o can_v never_o do_v it_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n if_o they_o believe_v any_o great_a and_o considerable_a part_n of_o the_o doctrine_n therein_o contain_v to_o be_v false_a and_o dangerous_a 15._o thus_o do_v this_o reverend_a person_n confute_v your_o oracle_n if_o you_o have_v offer_v any_o thing_n to_o prevent_v the_o same_o answer_n from_o be_v return_v to_o you_o i_o shall_v have_v be_v far_o from_o complain_v against_o you_o for_o advance_v of_o a_o old_a argument_n with_o new_a strength_n but_o when_o you_o see_v how_o unable_a etc._n unable_a see_v dr._n still_o conference_n against_o t._n g._n p._n 22_o etc._n etc._n t._n g._n be_v to_o defend_v these_o cavil_n nevertheless_o still_o to_o produce_v they_o and_o though_o you_o can_v not_o but_o be_v conscious_a to_o yourself_o at_o the_o same_o time_n that_o they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v maintain_v i_o shall_v only_o say_v that_o it_o serve_v to_o convince_v i_o of_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o a_o ancient_a greek_a poet_n once_o observe_v and_o the_o meaning_n of_o who_o word_n you_o may_v inquire_v among_o the_o learned_a at_o your_o leisure_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 16._o ad_fw-la pag._n â—_o reply_n your_o next_o paragraph_n consist_v of_o a_o story_n of_o q._n elizabeth_n 17._o t._n g_o be_v dialogue_n against_o dr._n still_o p._n 17._o and_o that_o too_o echo_a form_n t._n g's_o inspiration_n but_o to_o this_o i_o have_v already_o return_v my_o answer_n and_o when_o you_o shall_v think_v sit_v to_o speak_v out_o what_o you_o mean_v by_o it_o you_o shall_v not_o fail_v of_o a_o far_a consideration_n from_o i_o if_o i_o be_v not_o prevent_v by_o your_o receive_n it_o from_o a_o more_o proper_a hand_n 17._o and_o thus_o have_v we_o do_v with_o what_o concern_v the_o general_a cause_n in_o this_o introduction_n and_o the_o sum_n of_o all_o be_v this_o that_o of_o four_o paragraph_n of_o which_o it_o consist_v the_o first_o be_v calumny_n the_o second_o false_a and_o i_o be_o reasonable_o persuade_v know_v by_o you_o to_o be_v so_o the_o three_o impertinent_a and_o long_o since_o answer_v as_o be_v also_o the_o forego_n by_o the_o reverend_n dr._n st._n the_o last_o seditious_a i_o go_v on_o to_o the_o follow_a part_n of_o this_o first_o article_n to_o examine_v what_o relate_v to_o myself_o in_o it_o 18._o where_o first_o you_o except_v against_o my_o quote_v your_o particular_a author_n to_o find_v out_o your_o church_n meaning_n and_o call_v it_o calumny_n though_o what_o calumny_n it_o be_v to_o say_v that_o those_o author_n who_o you_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o i_o true_o cite_v have_v expound_v your_o church_n sense_n otherwise_o than_o you_o and_o some_o other_o do_v i_o can_v imagine_v but_o however_o you_o tell_v we_o ad_fw-la p._n 3_o 4._o reply_n that_o you_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o school_n that_o i_o must_v take_v your_o doctrine_n from_o your_o council_n the_o public_a authentic_a and_o universal_o receive_v definition_n and_o decision_n of_o the_o church_n answ_n and_o in_o this_o you_o still_o follow_v your_o old_a guide_n 57_o guide_n t._n g._n dial._n against_o dr._n still_o p._n 56_o 57_o t._n g._n but_o i_o have_v preface_n have_v first_o part_v preface_n already_o show_v you_o the_o weakness_n of_o this_o pretence_n and_o for_o your_o next_o supposal_n that_o even_o those_o author_n do_v not_o say_v what_o i_o affirm_v they_o do_v if_o your_o proof_n be_v as_o convince_a as_o your_o assertion_n be_v confident_a i_o have_v already_o promise_v you_o all_o you_o can_v desire_v 4._o repl._n p._n 4._o that_o i_o will_v not_o fail_v to_o confess_v that_o you_o deserve_v not_o so_o ill_a a_o character_n as_o i_o think_v ad_fw-la pag._n 4._o reply_n your_o next_o paragraph_n charge_v i_o with_o vnsincerity_n in_o state_v the_o question_n betwixt_o catholic_n as_o you_o call_v they_o and_o protestant_n for_o that_o i_o represent_v you_o as_o allow_v we_o to_o hold_v the_o ancient_a and_o undoubted_a foundation_n of_o the_o christian_a faith._n answ_n and_o be_v it_o not_o the_o ancient_a and_o undoubted_a foundation_n of_o the_o christian_a faith_n which_o we_o hold_v and_o which_o have_v be_v deliver_v down_o to_o we_o in_o those_o very_a creed_n which_o yourselves_o profess_v and_o into_o the_o faith_n of_o which_o you_o still_o baptize_v your_o child_n nay_o do_v not_o you_o yourself_o confess_v this_o to_o be_v true_a in_o the_o very_a place_n where_o you_o cavil_v against_o i_o for_o this_o assertion_n 24._o assertion_n vindic._n art._n 1._o p._n 24._o vindic._n p._n 24._o where_o you_o grant_v that_o what_o we_o hold_v be_v the_o ancient_a and_o undoubted_a foundation_n and_o only_o deny_v that_o it_o be_v entire_o so_o and_o again_o in_o this_o very_a reply_n in_o which_o you_o repeat_v your_o accusation_n 4._o accusation_n reply_v art._n 1._o pag._n 4._o p._n 4._o i_o tell_v he_o say_v you_o that_o we_o do_v not_o allow_v that_o proposition_n especial_o if_o he_o mean_v all_o fundamental_o so_o that_o then_o the_o vnsincerity_n lie_v not_o in_o my_o say_n that_o what_o we_o hold_v be_v fundamental_a for_o this_o you_o tell_v i_o vindicat._n p._n 24._o no_o body_n ever_o deny_v but_o for_o pretend_v that_o you_o allow_v that_o we_o hold_v all_o which_o you_o esteem_v to_o be_v fundamental_a now_o for_o this_o i_o must_v observe_v one_a that_o you_o dare_v not_o say_v positive_o that_o i_o affirm_v any_o such_o thing_n before_o thing_n reply_v see_v before_o i_o tell_v he_o say_v you_o that_o we_o do_v not_o allow_v that_o proposition_n if_o he_o mean_v all_o fundamental_o so_o that_o you_o positive_o charge_v i_o with_o vnsincerity_n for_o pretend_v that_o you_o grant_v what_o you_o do_v not_o upon_o supposition_n that_o i_o mean_v any_o such_o thing_n two_o that_o to_o make_v something_o of_o this_o charge_n you_o be_v force_v to_o go_v back_o from_o your_o own_o concession_n 24._o vindic._n p._n 24._o for_o whereas_o in_o your_o vindication_n you_o have_v say_v plain_o that_o though_o you_o do_v not_o allow_v we_o to_o hold_v all_o fundamental_o yet_o no_o body_n ever_o deny_v that_o we_o hold_v some_o of_o they_o here_o you_o clap_v in_o a_o insinuation_n even_o against_o this_o too_o 2._o reply_v p._n 2._o i_o tell_v he_o that_o we_o do_v not_o allow_v that_o they_o hold_v the_o ancient_a and_o undoubted_a foundation_n especial_o if_o he_o mean_v all_o fundamental_o so_o that_o though_o you_o do_v deny_v it_o especial_o if_o we_o mean_v all_o fundamental_o yet_o you_o do_v not_o altogether_o allow_v even_o that_o what_o we_o hold_v be_v fundamental_a but_o 3_o where_o at_o last_o do_v you_o find_v that_o i_o ever_o say_v that_o you_o grant_v that_o we_o hold_v all_o which_o you_o esteem_v to_o be_v fundamental_a in_o my_o exposition_n i_o tell_v you_o in_o the_o very_a next_o word_n to_o those_o you_o cavil_v at_o that_o this_o be_v the_o thing_n to_o be_v put_v upon_o the_o issue_n â—_o expos_fw-la c._n e._n p._n â—_o whether_o those_o article_n which_o you_o have_v add_v to_o this_o ancient_a and_o undoubted_a foundation_n as_o superstructure_n to_o it_o be_v not_o so_o far_o from_o be_v necessary_a article_n of_o religion_n as_o you_o pretend_v that_o they_o indeed_o overthrow_v that_o faith_n which_o be_v on_o both_o side_n allow_v to_o be_v divine_a and_o when_o in_o your_o vindication_n you_o first_o make_v this_o little_a exception_n i_o again_o repeat_v it_o in_o these_o very_a word_n which_o you_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o in_o your_o reply_n but_o the_o vindicator_n â—_o defen_n of_o the_o expos_n p._n â—_o jealous_a for_o the_o
the_o supernatural_a gift_n which_o god_n have_v bestow_v upon_o his_o servant_n but_o the_o very_a nature_n and_o quality_n of_o the_o act_n itself_o such_o act_n by_o which_o we_o pay_v not_o only_o all_o that_o worship_n which_o may_v be_v due_a to_o the_o excellency_n of_o a_o pure_a creature_n but_o the_o proper_a exercise_n of_o religion_n as_o prayer_n confession_n and_o such_o like_a and_o these_o with_o all_o the_o circumstance_n of_o a_o proper_a religious_a worship_n in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o his_o solemn_a service_n it_o may_v be_v in_o the_o same_o breath_n and_o form_n in_o which_o we_o address_v to_o the_o creator_n this_o be_v that_o religious_a worship_n which_o we_o constant_o affirm_v and_o which_o you_o yourself_o confess_v may_v not_o without_o impiety_n be_v give_v to_o any_o but_o god_n only_o and_o it_o be_v for_o this_o we_o charge_v you_o with_o that_o which_o by_o your_o own_o acknowledgement_n none_o of_o your_o distinction_n reach_v to_o nor_o will_v therefore_o excuse_v you_o of_o viz._n idolatry_n 5th_o as_o for_o the_o outward_a expression_n of_o this_o honour_n by_o bodily_a action_n as_o bow_v kneel_v prostrate_v etc._n etc._n these_o we_o confess_v be_v ambiguous_a and_o must_v be_v determine_v by_o the_o other_o circumstance_n but_o then_o we_o deny_v that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v mere_o according_a to_o the_o intention_n of_o he_o that_o perform_v they_o there_o be_v a_o external_n adoration_n which_o no_o internal_a act_n of_o the_o understanding_n or_o will_n can_v excuse_v if_o it_o be_v apply_v to_o any_o beside_o god._n such_o as_o be_v perform_v with_o those_o circumstance_n of_o a_o religious_a worship_n before_o mention_v as_o to_o time_n place_n word_n and_o the_o like_a in_o short_a it_o be_v we_o say_v idolatry_n by_o any_o external_n act_n whatsoever_o to_o show_v that_o we_o do_v attribute_v religious_a honour_n to_o any_o other_o but_o god_n alone_o six_o and_o for_o the_o rest_n we_o do_v affirm_v that_o there_o be_v some_o other_o kind_n of_o external_n action_n so_o peculiar_o appropriate_v to_o god_n that_o they_o can_v without_o idolatry_n be_v attribute_v to_o any_o other_o such_o as_o one_a sacrifice_n 4._o sacrifice_n bp_o of_o meaux_n be_v expos_n sect._n iii_o p._n 4._o by_o your_o own_o confession_n 283._o confession_n see_v this_o prosecute_v at_o large_a in_o dr._n still_o first_o answer_v to_o t.g._n p._n 190_o to_o 283._o to_o which_o i_o will_v two_o add_v all_o those_o other_o thing_n of_o the_o like_a kind_n which_o god_n appropriate_v to_o himself_o under_o the_o law_n as_o religious_a adoration_n erection_n of_o temple_n and_o altar_n burn_v of_o incense_n in_o token_n of_o divine_a worship_n solemn_a invocation_n and_o vow_n in_o all_o which_o neither_o our_o saviour_n nor_o his_o apostle_n have_v make_v the_o least_o alteration_n we_o ought_v certain_o as_o both_o the_o jew_n and_o primitive_a christian_n most_o undoubted_o do_v to_o esteem_v they_o still_o his_o own_o peculiar_a prerogative_n have_v thus_o establish_v in_o general_n our_o notion_n of_o religious_a worship_n let_v we_o see_v if_o any_o of_o these_o distinction_n will_v as_o you_o pretend_v excuse_v you_o of_o that_o imputation_n which_o have_v be_v lay_v upon_o you_o answer_v to_o the_o three_o article_n of_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n in_o the_o beginning_n of_o this_o article_n i_o can_v but_o acknowledge_v a_o commendable_a endeavour_n in_o you_o to_o clear_v the_o true_a state_n of_o the_o question_n betwixt_o we_o 10._o reply_v p._n 10._o and_o though_o i_o be_o not_o absolute_o of_o your_o mind_n nor_o do_v i_o see_v any_o cause_n for_o your_o supposal_n that_o mr._n 11._o mr._n p._n 11._o thorndyke_n speak_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o every_o one_o of_o those_o particular_n mention_v by_o you_o in_o order_n thereunto_o yet_o i_o will_v not_o enter_v into_o any_o controversy_n with_o you_o about_o they_o 1._o and_o first_o be_v it_o allow_v that_o the_o word_n prayer_n invocation_n call_v upon_o address_v etc._n etc._n be_v or_o may_v be_v equivocal_a i._n e._n as_o that_o learned_a man_n phrase_n it_o that_o we_o may_v make_v use_n of_o the_o same_o expression_n in_o signify_v our_o request_n to_o god_n and_o to_o man_n though_o yet_o for_o the_o two_o first_o of_o these_o viz._n prayer_n and_o invocation_n they_o be_v seldom_o apply_v to_o any_o other_o than_o a_o religious_a sense_n this_o t._n g._n long_o since_o observe_v and_o you_o have_v now_o borrow_v it_o from_o he_o and_o you_o may_v make_v what_o use_n of_o this_o remark_n you_o please_v in_o manage_v of_o this_o controversy_n 2._o we_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o we_o ought_v to_o honour_v the_o saint_n depart_v as_o well_o as_o holy_a man_n upon_o earth_n only_o we_o desire_v that_o that_o honour_n be_v such_o as_o become_v they_o to_o receive_v and_o we_o to_o pay_v we_o honour_v they_o when_o we_o praise_v and_o much_o more_o when_o we_o follow_v their_o faith_n and_o patience_n and_o because_o the_o reason_n and_o end_v of_o this_o honour_n be_v religious_a you_o may_v without_o be_v contradict_v by_o i_o call_v the_o honour_n itself_o religious_a too_o see_v you_o explain_v yourself_o to_o mean_v no_o more_o by_o it_o than_o a_o a_o external_n denomination_n from_o the_o cause_n and_o motive_n 29._o vind._n p._n 28_o 29._o but_o not_o from_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o act_n its_o self_n 3._o nor_o will_v i_o dispute_v with_o you_o last_o whether_o the_o saint_n in_o happiness_n do_v not_o in_o general_n pray_v for_o the_o church_n militant_a for_o it_o be_v to_o as_o little_a purpose_n to_o deny_v what_o can_v be_v disprove_v as_o to_o affirm_v what_o one_o can_v prove_v i_o have_v as_o great_a a_o honour_n as_o any_o man_n for_o mr._n thorndyke_n memory_n but_o yet_o i_o can_v see_v the_o proof_n even_o of_o this_o in_o those_o scripture_n which_o as_o you_o say_v he_o prove_v it_o by_o 11._o reply_v p._n 11._o some_o father_n i_o know_v have_v say_v so_o but_o their_o say_n it_o be_v not_o to_o i_o a_o sufficient_a proof_n of_o a_o point_n of_o doctrine_n when_o all_o be_v do_v the_o congruity_n of_o the_o thing_n be_v the_o best_a that_o can_v be_v bring_v for_o it_o and_o if_o upon_o this_o account_n you_o be_v resolve_v to_o call_v they_o advocate_n or_o intercessor_n between_o god_n and_o we_o ibid._n ibid._n you_o will_v i_o hope_v excuse_v i_o if_o i_o do_v not_o comply_v with_o you_o in_o it_o that_o they_o be_v full_a of_o charity_n towards_o we_o who_o be_v member_n of_o the_o same_o body_n with_o they_o i_o make_v not_o the_o least_o question_n but_o how_o they_o express_v it_o i_o do_v not_o certain_o know_v because_o many_o particular_n there_o be_v from_o whence_o such_o a_o matter_n be_v to_o be_v conclude_v which_o be_v all_o hide_a from_o my_o knowledge_n one_o thing_n i_o know_v that_o we_o have_v a_o mediator_n at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o god_n who_o know_v all_o our_o want_n which_o i_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o believe_v the_o great_a saint_n in_o heaven_n do_v i_o be_o likewise_o assure_v that_o his_o right_n to_o intercede_v for_o we_o be_v found_v upon_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o his_o death_n and_o since_o the_o gospel_n give_v this_o honour_n and_o prerogative_n to_o he_o only_a to_o appear_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n for_o we_o i_o shall_v never_o whilst_o i_o live_v help_v forward_o a_o ambiguity_n in_o those_o title_n of_o a_o mediator_n with_o god_n or_o a_o advocate_n with_o the_o father_n or_o a_o intercessor_n in_o heaven_n by_o attribute_v of_o they_o to_o any_o saint_n whatsoever_o these_o expression_n so_o apply_v be_v dangerous_a and_o scandalous_a and_o it_o be_v but_o a_o frivolous_a pretence_n for_o the_o do_v of_o it_o that_o possible_o the_o saint_n may_v do_v something_o for_o we_o in_o heaven_n upon_o the_o account_n of_o which_o the_o title_n of_o our_o redeemer_n may_v in_o some_o sense_n be_v give_v to_o they_o 11._o reply_v p._n 11._o 2._o as_o for_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n which_o you_o next_o propose_n you_o shall_v know_v by_o this_o time_n that_o we_o be_v by_o no_o mean_n agree_v that_o the_o only_a thing_n in_o dispute_n betwixt_o we_o be_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o we_o to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o whether_o such_o kind_n of_o address_n as_o these_o be_v of_o such_o a_o nature_n as_o to_o make_v god_n for_o so_o you_o tell_v i_o i_o very_o disrespectful_o call_v they_o ibid._n ibid._n though_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v find_v it_o be_v your_o misrepresenter_n phrase_n and_o not_o i_o of_o man_n and_o woman_n you_o do_v indeed_o with_o your_o guide_n t._n g._n and_o the_o bishop_n of_o
the_o same_o kind_a to_o vow_v and_o to_o pray_v but_o say_v he_o we_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n in_o order_n to_o god_n and_o therefore_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n we_o vow_v to_o they_o too_o and_o the_o main_a excuse_n which_o he_o make_v for_o both_o be_v the_o utter_a ruin_n of_o you_o and_o mounseur_fw-fr de_fw-fr meaux_n pretence_n viz._n that_o the_o saint_n be_v god_n by_o participation_n d._n bellarm._n the_o cult_a ss_z lib._n iii._o c._n 9_o p._n 2235._o d._n a_o remark_n which_o card._n bellarmine_n think_v so_o considerable_a that_o he_o from_o thence_o distinguish_v between_o the_o promise_n that_o be_v make_v to_o man_n on_o earth_n and_o to_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n so_o that_o the_o former_a be_v only_o promise_v the_o latter_a be_v vow_n because_o a_o vow_n do_v not_o agree_v otherwise_o to_o the_o saint_n than_o as_o they_o be_v god_n by_o participation_n 21._o the_o consequence_n of_o all_o be_v this_o plain_a conclusion_n that_o if_o a_o vow_n be_v strict_o and_o proper_o a_o act_n of_o religious_a worship_n and_o not_o only_o call_v so_o by_o a_o extrinsical_a denomination_n from_o the_o cause_n and_o motive_n of_o it_o and_o prayer_n as_o card._n cajetane_v say_v be_v a_o act_n of_o the_o same_o kind_n with_o it_o then_o be_v they_o both_o act_n by_o your_o own_o acknowledgement_n due_a only_o to_o god_n and_o therefore_o it_o must_v be_v a_o sin_n to_o give_v they_o to_o any_o other_o and_o be_v a_o sin_n in_o a_o matter_n of_o religious_a worship_n whereby_o that_o honour_n be_v give_v to_o the_o creature_n which_o be_v due_a only_a to_o god_n it_o remain_v according_a to_o our_o notion_n that_o it_o must_v be_v idolatry_n 22._o and_o thus_o have_v i_o hitherto_o argue_v against_o that_o worship_n you_o pay_v to_o the_o saint_n upon_o your_o own_o principle_n and_o according_a to_o your_o own_o proposal_n i_o shall_v only_o add_v to_o close_v this_o first_o point_n that_o whether_o these_o argument_n shall_v be_v think_v of_o force_n sufficient_a to_o convict_v you_o of_o what_o i_o be_o persuade_v you_o be_v guilty_a in_o this_o service_n it_o be_v your_o concern_v alone_o to_o weigh_v if_o they_o be_v i_o need_v not_o say_v any_o thing_n to_o exaggerate_v your_o offence_n which_o you_o commit_v in_o this_o matter_n if_o they_o be_v not_o yet_o whilst_o we_o be_v neither_o defective_a in_o our_o veneration_n towards_o those_o bless_a soul_n but_o pay_v they_o all_o that_o honour_n as_o i_o have_v before_o show_v of_o which_o they_o be_v now_o capable_a whilst_o we_o transgress_v no_o command_n of_o god_n in_o our_o omission_n of_o these_o superstition_n nor_o fail_v continual_o to_o address_v ourselves_o to_o the_o throne_n of_o grace_n through_o our_o great_a and_o only_a mediator_n jesus_n christ_n we_o be_v not_o only_o sure_a of_o his_o intercession_n who_o we_o know_v be_v able_a both_o to_o hear_v and_o help_v we_o but_o also_o in_o a_o most_o likely_a way_n of_o obtain_v the_o charitable_a assistance_n of_o those_o holy_a soul_n too_o who_o if_o they_o have_v any_o knowledge_n of_o we_o or_o concern_v for_o what_o pass_v here_o below_o will_v doubtless_o need_v no_o solicitation_n to_o be_v kind_a to_o we_o but_o without_o our_o entreaty_n offer_v up_o their_o prayer_n to_o god_n for_o all_o those_o who_o thus_o serve_v he_o in_o sincerity_n and_o truth_n 23._o but_o i_o must_v now_o go_v much_o far_o and_o bring_v my_o charge_n more_o close_o against_o you_o by_o show_v second_o ii_o point_n what_o the_o true_a doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v as_o to_o the_o point_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n now_o the_o sum_n of_o this_o point_n may_v i_o think_v best_a be_v reduce_v to_o these_o four_o consideration_n by_o which_o you_o endeavour_v in_o your_o reply_n to_o justify_v yourselves_o in_o this_o particular_a for_o i._o as_o to_o the_o prayer_n themselves_o you_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o in_o the_o natural_a sense_n of_o they_o they_o do_v imply_v a_o proper_a and_o formal_a invocation_n of_o the_o saint_n to_o who_o you_o address_v but_o than_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o church_n sense_n be_v much_o otherwise_o and_o therefore_o that_o whatever_o their_o word_n may_v seem_v to_o imply_v yet_o the_o intention_n of_o they_o all_o be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o viz._n pray_v for_o we_o ii_o that_o as_o to_o what_o we_o object_n concern_v the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n your_o couclude_v of_o all_o your_o prayer_n in_o this_o form_n through_o jesus_n christ_n our_o lord_n plain_o show_v that_o you_o mean_v no_o more_o by_o it_o than_o this_o 23._o reply_v art._n iii._o iii._o 18._o p._n 23._o that_o god_n will_v vouchsafe_v to_o call_v to_o mind_v the_o glorious_a action_n and_o suffering_n of_o his_o saint_n perform_v in_o and_o by_o his_o grace_n and_o upon_o those_o account_n accept_v your_o sacrifice_n or_o hear_v your_o prayer_n iii_o that_o for_o those_o address_n you_o have_v the_o warrant_n both_o of_o scripture_n and_o antiquity_n whereas_o iu._n we_o have_v neither_o against_o they_o those_o pretension_n i_o offer_v in_o my_o defence_n be_v either_o false_a or_o deceitful_a or_o at_o least_o not_o conclusive_a enough_o to_o engage_v you_o to_o lay_v aside_o a_o practice_n which_o have_v be_v so_o many_o hundred_o year_n in_o the_o church_n and_o that_o by_o our_o own_o confession_n this_o be_v the_o sum_n of_o what_o be_v say_v on_o this_o occasion_n not_o only_o by_o your_o self_n but_o by_o the_o generality_n of_o your_o party_n and_o to_o this_o i_o shall_v answer_v with_o all_o the_o plainness_n and_o candour_n that_o i_o be_o able_a sect_n i._o whether_o all_o the_o prayer_n that_o be_v make_v to_o the_o saint_n by_o those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v fair_o to_o be_v reduce_v to_o this_o one_o sense_n pray_v for_o we_o 24._o for_o thus_o it_o be_v that_o you_o expound_v yourselves_o that_o in_o what_o term_n soever_o those_o prayer_n which_o you_o address_v to_o the_o saint_n be_v couch_v 22._o reply_v art._n iii._o sect_n 16._o p._n 22._o the_o intention_n of_o your_o church_n reduce_v they_o always_o to_o this_o form_n pray_v for_o we_o you_o charge_v i_o with_o voluntary_a fix_v the_o word_n of_o your_o address_n which_o be_v equivocal_a to_o a_o univocal_a sense_n and_o that_o have_v i_o either_o as_o become_v a_o christian_a or_o a_o scholar_n take_v notice_n of_o this_o direction_n lay_v down_o by_o the_o bishop_n of_o condom_n both_o in_o his_o book_n and_o in_o his_o advertisement_n i_o shall_v have_v save_v myself_o the_o labour_n of_o amass_v such_o a_o appendix_n as_o i_o have_v make_v to_o this_o article_n and_o the_o reader_n the_o trouble_n of_o peruse_v it_o to_o as_o little_a purpose_n since_o though_o your_o church_n do_v indeed_o make_v her_o address_n to_o the_o saint_n for_o protection_n and_o power_n against_o your_o enemy_n for_o help_n and_o assistance_n and_o the_o like_a yet_o it_o do_v appear_v manifest_o to_o any_o one_o who_o be_v not_o wilful_a in_o his_o mistake_v that_o all_o these_o be_v reduce_v to_o a_o ora_fw-la pro_fw-la nobis_fw-la it_o be_v a_o kind_n of_o aid_n succour_n and_o protection_n to_o recommend_v the_o miserable_a to_o he_o who_o alone_o can_v succour_v they_o 25._o answer_n such_o than_o be_v your_o pretence_n to_o your_o reflection_n i_o have_v speak_v already_o i_o come_v now_o to_o examine_v your_o reason_n and_o to_o convince_v other_o if_o not_o you_o that_o i_o be_v not_o wilful_a in_o my_o mistake_v as_o to_o the_o meaning_n of_o your_o prayer_n but_o that_o you_o be_v a_o sort_n of_o miserable_a shuffler_n in_o your_o pretend_a exposition_n of_o they_o for_o tell_v i_o now_o i_o beseech_v you_o by_o what_o authority_n be_v it_o that_o your_o new_a guide_n 407._o guide_n answer_v to_o dr._n st._n p._n 399_o 406_o 407._o t._n g._n and_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n undertake_v thus_o to_o detort_v the_o plain_a expression_n of_o your_o address_n to_o a_o signification_n utter_o repugnant_a to_o the_o natural_a mean_v of_o they_o have_v any_o of_o your_o general_n approve_v council_n positive_o define_v this_o to_o be_v all_o your_o design_n in_o they_o 6._o full_a answer_n p._n 6._o and_o if_o they_o have_v not_o be_v you_o not_o according_a to_o your_o own_o language_n 7._o ibid._n p._n 7._o in_o your_o accuse_v of_o i_o on_o this_o occasion_n a_o falsifier_n a_o calumniator_n and_o a_o misrepresenter_n too_o do_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n where_o it_o decree_v this_o service_n be_v to_o be_v pay_v to_o they_o say_v that_o this_o shall_v be_v the_o universal_a ecclesiastical_a sense_n of_o these_o devotion_n nay_o do_v but_o so_o much_o as_o one_o single_a rubric_n in_o all_o your_o office_n give_v we_o the_o least_o intimation_n of_o it_o
doctrine_n as_o to_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n must_v be_v for_o 35._o four_o have_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v of_o the_o same_o opinion_n with_o mounseur_fw-fr de_fw-fr meaux_n i_o shall_v leave_v it_o to_o any_o reasonable_a man_n that_o will_v but_o be_v at_o the_o pain_n to_o examine_v your_o office_n to_o say_v whether_o there_o be_v not_o great_a need_n of_o some_o such_o advertisement_n as_o i_o before_o say_v as_o for_o example_n in_o the_o office_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n you_o thus_o address_v to_o her_o 1631._o officium_fw-la b._n virg._n p._n 84._o antw._n 1631._o we_o fly_v to_o your_o protection_n o_o holy_a mother_n of_o god_n despise_v not_o our_o prayer_n which_o we_o make_v to_o you_o in_o our_o necessity_n but_o deliver_v we_o from_o all_o danger_n o_o glorious_a and_o ever_o bless_a virgin_n and_o again_o 103._o ibid._n p._n 103._o vouchsafe_v that_o i_o may_v be_v worthy_a to_o praise_v thou_o o_o sacred_a virgin_n give_v i_o strength_n and_o power_n against_o thy_o enemy_n now_o that_o these_o prayer_n be_v conceive_v in_o as_o formal_a term_n as_o any_o can_v be_v to_o god_n himself_o be_v not_o to_o be_v deny_v i_o desire_v you_o therefore_o to_o tell_v i_o by_o what_o rule_v of_o interpretation_n by_o what_o public_a and_o authentic_a decree_n of_o your_o church_n we_o be_v to_o expound_v a_o prayer_n make_v to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n that_o she_o will_v give_v strength_n and_o power_n into_o a_o desire_n that_o she_o will_v pray_v to_o god_n that_o he_o will_v do_v this_o 36._o but_o however_o let_v we_o for_o one_o moment_n suppose_v this_o to_o be_v reasonable_a and_o try_v whither_o such_o a_o method_n of_o interpret_n will_v carry_v we_o for_o instance_n thus_o you_o 497._o you_o ibid._n p._n 497._o pray_v to_o the_o apostle_n o_o you_o just_a judge_n and_o true_a light_n of_o the_o world_n we_o pray_v unto_o you_o with_o the_o request_n of_o our_o heart_n that_o you_o will_v hear_v the_o prayer_n of_o your_o suppliant_n that_o be_v to_o say_v we_o do_v desire_v you_o in_o a_o friendly_a way_n and_o only_o after_o the_o order_n of_o brotherly_a society_n though_o in_o compliment_n we_o call_v ourselves_o indeed_o your_o suppliant_n and_o entreat_v you_o to_o hear_v our_o prayer_n that_o you_o will_v pray_v for_o we_o you_o that_o by_o your_o word_n shut_v and_o open_a heaven_n deliver_v we_o we_o beseech_v you_o by_o your_o command_n from_o all_o our_o sin_n that_o be_v you_o who_o by_o your_o prayer_n to_o god_n be_v able_a to_o incline_v he_o either_o to_o shut_v or_o open_a haven_n we_o entreat_v you_o that_o by_o your_o command_n mean_v only_o your_o prayer_n you_o will_v deliver_v we_o that_o be_v to_o say_v will_v pray_v to_o god_n that_o he_o will_v deliver_v we_o from_o all_o our_o sin_n you_o to_o who_o command_n the_o health_n and_o sickness_n of_o all_o man_n be_v submit_v heal_n we_o who_o be_v sick_a in_o our_o manner_n and_o restore_v we_o to_o virtue_n that_o be_v to_o say_v o_o you_o holy_a apostle_n to_o who_o command_n as_o far_o as_o prayer_n may_v be_v so_o call_v the_o health_n and_o sickness_n of_o all_o be_v subject_v forasmuch_o as_o your_o request_n can_v prevail_v with_o god_n to_o submit_v it_o to_o you_o heal_n we_o i_o e._n pray_v to_o god_n that_o he_o will_v heal_n we_o who_o be_v sick_a in_o our_o manner_n and_o restore_v we_o that_o be_v to_o say_v entreat_v god_n that_o he_o will_v restore_v we_o to_o virtue_n 37._o such_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n be_v the_o paraphrase_n of_o this_o prayer_n if_o this_o be_v a_o natural_a way_n of_o expound_v then_o be_v also_o your_o pretence_n allow_v of_o but_o if_o to_o pray_v in_o such_o word_n as_o these_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o what_o i_o have_v express_v be_v a_o downright_a mock_v both_o of_o god_n and_o his_o saint_n then_o let_v the_o world_n judge_v what_o we_o be_v to_o think_v of_o your_o interpretation_n 38._o but_o however_o for_o once_o let_v we_o allow_v even_o this_o too_o what_o shall_v we_o do_v with_o those_o prayer_n where_o god_n and_o the_o saint_n be_v both_o join_v together_o in_o the_o same_o request_n as_o for_o instance_n let_v mary_n and_o her_o son_n bless_v we_o 105._o officium_fw-la b._n virg._n pag._n 105._o here_o i_o doubt_v it_o will_v be_v something_o difficult_a to_o reduce_v they_o to_o what_o you_o call_v the_o church_n sense_n pray_v for_o we_o unless_o you_o pray_v to_o god_n too_o as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o saint_n to_o pray_v to_o who_o i_o can_v imagine_v for_o you_o 39_o i_o shall_v add_v but_o one_o consideration_n more_o from_o your_o service_n of_o the_o saint_n to_o overthrow_v your_o new_a exposition_n but_o that_o such_o as_o i_o shall_v be_v very_o glad_a to_o receive_v a_o honest_a answer_n to_o for_o be_v it_o that_o in_o defiance_n of_o all_o sense_n and_o reason_n your_o prayer_n to_o the_o saint_n in_o what_o term_n soever_o they_o be_v conceive_v must_v all_o be_v interpret_v as_o you_o pretend_v yet_o what_o shall_v we_o do_v in_o those_o case_n where_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o the_o service_n utter_o refuse_v such_o kind_n of_o colour_n as_o i._n when_o in_o your_o vow_n you_o vow_v as_o i_o before_o observe_v to_o god_n and_o the_o bless_a virgin_n and_o to_o st._n benedict_n and_o to_o all_o the_o saint_n that_o you_o will_v be_v obedient_a to_o your_o superior_n ii_o when_o in_o your_o doxology_n you_o give_v glory_n to_o god_n and_o the_o b._n virgin_n mary_n and_o last_o of_o all_o to_o jesus_n christ_n so_o greg._n de_fw-fr valencia_n praise_n be_v to_o god_n and_o the_o virgin_n mother_n mary_n also_o to_o god_n jesus_n christ_n the_o eternal_a son_n of_o the_o eternal_a father_n be_v praise_n and_o glory_n so_o card._n bellarmine_n close_v this_o very_a dispute_n of_o the_o worship_n of_o saint_n honour_n and_o glory_n be_v to_o god_n and_o to_o the_o most_o holy_a virgin_n mary_n and_o to_o all_o the_o saint_n so_o your_o collector_n of_o the_o life_n of_o the_o saint_n 23._o contemplate_v pag._n 23._o verse_n open_v my_o lip_n o_o mother_n of_o jesus_n resp_n and_o my_o soul_n shall_v speak_v forth_o thy_o praise_n verse_n divine_a lady_n be_v intent_n to_o my_o aid_n resp_n gracious_o make_v haste_n to_o help_v i_o verse_n glory_n be_v to_o jesus_n and_o mary_n resp_n as_o it_o be_v be_v and_o ever_o shall_v be_v so_o dr._n j._n c._n now_o what_o you_o will_v think_v of_o all_o this_o i_o can_v tell_v below_o see_v below_o but_o sure_o i_o be_o s._n athanasius_n pronounce_v it_o to_o be_v downright_a idolatry_n and_o what_o no_o good_a christian_n will_v ever_o be_v guilty_a of_o iii_o when_o in_o your_o commendation_n of_o a_o depart_a soul_n you_o bid_v he_o anim._n rit_fw-fr rom._n ord._n comm._n anim._n depart_v out_o of_o the_o world_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o father_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n of_o angel_n and_o archangel_n of_o patriarch_n prophet_n apostle_n and_o of_o all_o saint_n as_o i_o have_v before_o at_o large_a recite_v it_o iv_o when_o in_o the_o confession_n of_o your_o sin_n you_o confess_v to_o god_n almighty_a and_o the_o bless_a virgin_n mary_n miss_n missale_n r._n in_o ord._n miss_n to_o s._n michael_n the_o archangel_n to_o s._n john_n baptist_n to_o the_o holy_a apostle_n peter_n and_o paul_n and_o to_o all_o the_o saint_n v._o when_o in_o absolve_v your_o penitent_n from_o they_o you_o join_v the_o passion_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n poenit._n rituale_fw-la rom._n de_fw-fr sacr._n poenit._n and_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n and_o of_o all_o the_o saint_n together_o for_o the_o remission_n of_o all_o his_o sin_n vi_o when_o in_o your_o conjure_n against_o storm_n you_o contradict_v the_o evil_a spirit_n by_o the_o virtue_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n and_o of_o the_o bless_a virgin._n 77._o rituale_fw-la fr._n de_fw-fr sales_n p._n 77._o vii_o when_o in_o your_o excommunication_n you_o shut_v man_n out_o of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o authority_n of_o god_n almighty_n the_o father_n son_n absol_n pontific_n rom._n ord._n excom_n &_o absol_n and_o holy_a ghost_n and_o of_o the_o bless_a apostle_n peter_n and_o paul_n and_o of_o all_o the_o saint_n viii_o when_o in_o absolve_v they_o from_o this_o sentence_n you_o remit_v this_o bond_n in_o the_o same_o authority_n of_o god_n almighty_n ibid._n ibid._n and_o of_o the_o bless_a apostle_n peter_n and_o paul._n last_o when_o in_o consecrate_v of_o a_o church_n or_o altar_n you_o bid_v this_o stone_n be_v sancti_fw-la ✚_o fie_v and_o conse_n ✚_o crated_a 124._o ibid._n de_fw-fr consecrat_fw-mi ecclesiae_fw-la p._n 124._o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o fa_n ✚_o theridamas_n and_o of_o the_o s_n ✚_o on_z and_o of_o the_o holy_a ✚_o
in_o ambiguous_a term_n whilst_o you_o charge_v i_o with_o it_o the_o word_n merit_n you_o say_v be_v equivocal_a and_o the_o two_o sense_n you_o give_v it_o be_v first_o to_o signify_v that_o we_o do_v by_o our_o own_o natural_a force_n alone_o deserve_v the_o reward_n of_o grace_n and_o glory_n and_o in_o which_o sense_n if_o you_o pretend_v that_o we_o charge_v you_o with_o plead_v your_o own_o merit_n you_o do_v certain_o most_o false_o accuse_v we_o the_o other_o sense_n you_o give_v the_o word_n be_v that_o our_o good_a work_n may_v be_v say_v to_o merit_v because_o they_o apply_v the_o merit_n of_o jesus_n christ_n to_o we_o and_o be_v the_o mean_n by_o which_o we_o attain_v eternal_a life_n in_o virtue_n of_o the_o promise_n of_o god_n and_o merit_n of_o our_o bless_a redeemer_n in_o which_o be_v you_o sincere_a for_o all_o the_o impropriety_n of_o the_o speech_n yet_o we_o shall_v not_o be_v far_o from_o agree_v with_o you_o but_o now_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o your_o pray_v to_o god_n to_o hear_v you_o by_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n this_o may_v do_v well_o in_o its_o proper_a article_n but_o here_o it_o serve_v only_o to_o amuse_v the_o reader_n with_o that_o which_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n that_o so_o he_o may_v be_v dispose_v to_o forget_v what_o you_o be_v to_o prove_v jam_fw-la dic_fw-la posthume_n de_fw-la tribus_fw-la capellis_fw-la 51._o you_o tell_v we_o then_o in_o the_o next_o paragraph_n that_o you_o pray_v that_o god_n will_v not_o respect_v your_o own_o unworthiness_n 24._o reply_v p._n 24._o but_o regard_v the_o merit_n of_o his_o saint_n and_o for_o their_o sake_n i._n e._n for_o their_o merit_n hear_v your_o prayer_n or_o accept_v your_o sacrifice_n but_o where_o then_o be_v the_o misrepresentation_n for_o this_o be_v the_o very_a thing_n we_o charge_v you_o with_o viz._n that_o not_o content_a to_o address_v yourselves_o to_o god_n in_o the_o name_n and_o through_o the_o merit_n of_o our_o only_a mediator_n jesus_n christ_n you_o have_v seek_v out_o to_o yourselves_o other_o intercessor_n in_o who_o name_n and_o through_o who_o merit_n to_o offer_v up_o both_o your_o prayer_n and_o sacrifice_n to_o god._n and_o whether_o we_o do_v not_o in_o this_o very_o just_o accuse_v you_o let_v your_o address_n themselves_o satisfy_v the_o world._n o_o bless_a john_n the_o baptist_n reach_v out_o thy_o hand_n to_o we_o and_o be_v to_o we_o continual_o a_o holy_a intercessor_n to_o the_o clemency_n of_o the_o most_o high_a judge_n that_o through_o thy_o merit_n we_o may_v deserve_v to_o be_v free_v from_o all_o tribulation_n o_o god_n by_o who_o grace_n we_o celebrate_v the_o memory_n of_o thy_o saint_n saturninus_n and_o sisinnius_n grant_v that_o by_o their_o merit_n we_o may_v be_v help_v through_o our_o lord_n merciful_o accept_v o_o god_n our_o offering_n which_o we_o have_v make_v unto_o thou_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o the_o passion_n of_o thy_o bless_a martyr_n saturninus_n and_o sisinnius_n that_o by_o their_o intercession_n they_o may_v be_v make_v acceptable_a to_o thy_o majesty_n and_o in_o the_o breviary_n of_o salisbury_n we_o find_v this_o to_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o constant_a service_n be_v propitious_a we_o beseech_v thou_o o_o lord_n unto_o we_o thy_o servant_n 2._o breviarium_fw-la in_o usum_fw-la sarum_n in_fw-la seruit_fw-la b._n virg._n par_fw-fr 2._o through_o the_o glorious_a merit_n of_o thy_o saint_n who_o relic_n be_v contain_v in_o this_o church_n that_o by_o their_o pious_a intercession_n we_o may_v be_v protect_v in_o all_o adversity_n grant_v we_o beseech_v thou_o almighty_a god_n that_o the_o merit_n of_o thy_o saint_n who_o relic_n be_v contain_v in_o this_o church_n may_v protect_v we_o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v infinite_a to_o recount_v all_o the_o other_o prayer_n which_o run_v in_o the_o same_o strain_n throughout_o all_o your_o office_n insomuch_o that_o the_o very_a 367._o very_a missal_n rom._n p._n 367._o canon_n of_o the_o mass_n be_v infect_v with_o it_o i_o will_v mention_v only_o one_o instance_n more_o which_o be_v indeed_o a_o singular_a one_o not_o so_o much_o because_o of_o the_o expression_n of_o it_o wherein_o the_o general_a word_n of_o merit_n be_v restrain_v to_o the_o particular_a merit_n of_o his_o death_n as_o because_o it_o be_v make_v to_o one_o who_o die_v in_o actual_a rebellion_n against_o his_o prince_n and_o concern_v who_o therefore_o it_o be_v for_o some_o time_n debate_v among_o you_o whether_o he_o be_v damn_v or_o save_v by_o the_o blood_n of_o thomas_n a_o becket_n which_o he_o shed_v for_o thou_o make_v we_o to_o ascend_v to_o heaven_n whither_o he_o be_v go_v 1604._o mornay_n de_fw-fr la_fw-fr messe_n p._n 826._o saumur_n 1604._o 52._o it_o remain_v then_o that_o you_o do_v recur_v to_o the_o saint_n not_o mere_o for_o their_o prayer_n but_o that_o by_o their_o merit_n and_o intercession_n they_o will_v obtain_v grace_n and_o pardon_v of_o god_n for_o you_o this_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o your_o catechism_n adjuvant_fw-la catech_n trid._n par_fw-fr iij._o p._n 256._o the_o invoc_n ss_z n._n 24._o tit_n sancti_fw-la suis_fw-la meritis_fw-la nos_fw-la adjuvant_fw-la that_o the_o saint_n help_v we_o by_o their_o own_o merit_n and_o be_v therefore_o the_o rather_o to_o be_v worship_v and_o invoke_v because_o they_o both_o pray_v continual_o for_o the_o salvation_n of_o man_n and_o that_o god_n bestow_v many_o benefit_n upon_o we_o by_o their_o merit_n and_o favour_n it_o be_v from_o hence_o that_o the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n interpret_v your_o pray_v for_o their_o intercession_n to_o be_v the_o same_o thing_n as_o to_o pray_v that_o by_o their_o merit_n they_o will_v help_v you_o and_o aquinas_n 4._o aquin._n 22dae_fw-la q._n 83._o art_n 4._o we_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n say_v he_o not_o to_o inform_v god_n of_o our_o petition_n by_o they_o but_o that_o by_o their_o prayer_n and_o merit_n our_o prayer_n may_v become_v effectual_a 17._o bellarm._n de_fw-fr beat._n ss_z l._n 1._o c._n 17._o we_o may_v say_v to_o the_o saint_n say_v card._n bellarmine_n save_v i_o or_o give_v i_o this_o or_o that_o provide_v we_o understand_v give_v it_o i_o by_o thy_o prayer_n or_o merit_n so_o that_o in_o all_o this_o we_o say_v no_o more_o of_o you_o than_o what_o both_o your_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n warrant_v we_o to_o do_v 53._o let_v we_o see_v therefore_o how_o you_o excuse_v yourselves_o in_o this_o matter_n you_o say_v that_o your_o conclude_v of_o all_o your_o prayer_n through_o jesus_n christ_n our_o lord_n show_v that_o you_o desire_v all_o at_o last_o by_o his_o merit_n but_o indeed_o this_o be_v but_o a_o poor_a shift_n and_o as_o a_o very_a learned_a man_n have_v long_o since_o tell_v you_o 941._o dr._n jackson_n tom._n 1._o p._n 941._o that_o close_o come_v in_o in_o your_o address_n much_o after_o the_o same_o manner_n that_o the_o mention_n of_o a_o certain_a sum_n of_o money_n do_v in_o deed_n of_o trust_n only_o pro_fw-la formâ_fw-la and_o you_o be_v never_o the_o less_o guilty_a for_o this_o conclusion_n of_o what_o we_o charge_v you_o with_o viz._n that_o you_o join_v the_o merit_n and_o intercession_n of_o the_o saint_n with_o the_o merit_n and_o intercession_n of_o christ_n for_o pardon_n and_o acceptance_n and_o to_o the_o end_n that_o you_o may_v see_v what_o senseless_a petition_n you_o hereby_o make_v to_o god_n in_o these_o address_n i_o will_v only_o take_v one_o of_o your_o prayer_n in_o the_o literal_a meaning_n of_o it_o ib._n idem_fw-la ib._n and_o apply_v it_o in_o a_o plain_a paraphrase_n to_o your_o pretension_n by_o way_n of_o petition_n to_o some_o earthly_a prince_n thus_o than_o you_o pray_v upon_o the_o three_o of_o may._n grant_v we_o beseech_v thou_o almighty_a god_n that_o we_o who_o adore_v the_o nativity_n of_o thy_o saint_n alexander_n etc._n etc._n may_v by_o their_o intercession_n be_v deliver_v from_o all_o evil_n that_o hang_v over_o we_o through_o jesus_n christ_n our_o lord_n now_o change_v only_o the_o name_n this_o according_a to_o your_o exposition_n will_v be_v the_o paraphrase_n of_o it_o i_o beseech_v your_o sacred_a majesty_n that_o you_o will_v vouchsafe_v to_o pardon_v my_o offence_n against_o you_o and_o deliver_v i_o from_o those_o evil_n that_o hang_v over_o i_o for_o they_o at_o the_o intercession_n of_o your_o lord_n chancellor_n etc._n etc._n and_o in_o honour_n of_o this_o his_o birthday_n and_o that_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o the_o prince_n your_o son_n our_o royal_a lord_n and_o master_n in_o this_o extravagant_a petition_n the_o very_a transcript_n of_o the_o forego_n prayer_n he_o must_v be_v blind_a who_o see_v not_o that_o the_o conclusion_n of_o it_o for_o the_o prince_n sake_n etc._n etc._n be_v very_o impertinent_a and_o do_v not_o at_o all_o hinder_a but_o that_o the_o
unconclusive_a in_o short_a you_o can_v deny_v the_o matter_n of_o fact_n though_o you_o will_v be_v think_v to_o suppose_v rather_o than_o allow_v it_o to_o be_v true_a and_o all_o you_o have_v to_o say_v be_v that_o whatever_o they_o believe_v beside_o sure_o you_o be_v they_o do_v pray_v to_o the_o saint_n 75._o answ_n that_o the_o father_n about_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o the_o iv_o century_n begin_v to_o invocate_v the_o saint_n we_o do_v not_o deny_v though_o it_o be_v rather_o in_o the_o way_n of_o a_o rhetorical_a compellation_n than_o of_o a_o formal_a address_n and_o if_o herein_o they_o contradict_v any_o other_o of_o their_o principle_n we_o know_v they_o be_v but_o man_n and_o as_o such_o may_v possible_o in_o their_o religious_a heat_n do_v some_o thing_n not_o entire_o consonant_a to_o themselves_o in_o their_o cool_a hour_n now_o then_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o those_o father_n i_o heretofore_o mention_v do_v teach_v that_o the_o saint_n depart_v do_v not_o yet_o enjoy_v the_o beatific_a vision_n i_o say_v with_o those_o great_a man_n of_o your_o church_n who_o you_o here_o forsake_v that_o they_o can_v not_o reasonable_o pray_v to_o they_o since_o it_o be_v upon_o this_o vision_n especial_o that_o you_o find_v your_o opinion_n of_o that_o particular_a knowledge_n you_o suppose_v they_o ordinary_o and_o constant_o have_v of_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v do_v here_o below_o and_o without_o which_o it_o will_v be_v vain_a and_o absurd_a to_o call_v upon_o they_o and_o therefore_o though_o you_o have_v no_o regard_n to_o bellarmine_n or_o suarez'_v authority_n yet_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o sense_n and_o reason_n answer_v their_o argument_n and_o tell_v we_o a_o little_a upon_o your_o own_o principle_n how_o those_o father_n can_v think_v the_o saint_n be_v fit_a to_o be_v pray_v to_o if_o by_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v yet_o in_o heaven_n they_o by_o consequence_n must_v have_v deny_v they_o to_o have_v any_o ordinary_a and_o certain_a knowledge_n of_o what_o be_v do_v here_o upon_o earth_n 16._o reply_v p._n 16._o 76._o reply_n but_o sixtus_n senensis_n you_o say_v after_o all_o conclude_v that_o those_o father_n do_v not_o intend_v to_o exclude_v the_o saint_n depart_v from_o the_o beatific_a vision_n but_o only_o from_o that_o perfect_a happiness_n which_o we_o shall_v enjoy_v after_o the_o resurrection_n and_o it_o will_v have_v be_v much_o more_o christian-like_a in_o i_o to_o have_v imitate_v his_o example_n than_o to_o argue_v as_o i_o do_v against_o their_o pray_v to_o saint_n from_o this_o principle_n 77._o answ_n have_v i_o be_v cramp_v as_o he_o be_v with_o a_o defininimus_fw-la of_o my_o church_n i_o may_v possible_o have_v be_v tempt_v to_o make_v excuse_n for_o those_o father_n as_o he_o do_v but_o a_o man_n need_v only_o look_v upon_o their_o word_n as_o they_o be_v cite_v by_o he_o to_o see_v how_o little_a such_o shuffle_n will_v avail_v to_o reduce_v their_o doctrine_n to_o your_o pretence_n and_o the_o truth_n be_v this_o sixtus_n senensis_n be_v so_o honest_a as_o to_o confess_v though_o you_o be_v not_o so_o honest_a as_o to_o take_v notice_n of_o it_o for_o have_v offer_v that_o exposition_n of_o their_o word_n which_o you_o mention_v he_o immediate_o subjoin_v thus_o say_v he_o have_v i_o interpret_v the_o expression_n of_o s._n ambrose_n austin_n and_o chrysostome_n but_o if_o there_o be_v some_o say_n of_o the_o holy_a author_n which_o can_v suffer_v such_o a_o interpretation_n yet_o we_o shall_v at_o least_o remember_v that_o this_o error_n ought_v not_o to_o prejudice_v the_o learning_n and_o piety_n of_o such_o illustrious_a father_n see_v the_o church_n in_o their_o time_n have_v not_o yet_o determine_v any_o thing_n certain_a to_o be_v believe_v in_o this_o matter_n thus_o sixtus_n senensis_n ingenuous_o confess_v how_o the_o case_n stand_v and_o this_o you_o can_v be_v presume_v not_o to_o have_v see_v in_o he_o see_v they_o be_v in_o the_o very_a same_o place_n with_o what_o you_o transcribe_v from_o he_o and_o what_o then_o must_v i_o think_v of_o such_o a_o one_o as_o value_v not_o how_o he_o report_v thing_n so_o he_o may_v but_o by_o any_o mean_n seem_v to_o say_v somewhat_o though_o he_o know_v at_o the_o same_o time_n that_o he_o can_v expect_v long_o to_o triumph_v in_o his_o unsincerity_n 78._o and_o now_o there_o be_v but_o one_o thing_n more_o remain_v to_o get_v over_o this_o unlucky_a period_n of_o the_o first_o 300_o year_n 14._o reply_v p._n 18._o sect_n 14._o reply_n for_o what_o if_o the_o few_o write_n of_o the_o ancient_n of_o the_o first_o 300_o year_n which_o remain_v be_v silent_a in_o this_o particular_a do_v it_o follow_v that_o they_o approve_v not_o the_o practice_n answ_n no_o sir_n this_o in_o not_o the_o case_n we_o do_v not_o pretend_v to_o a_o bare_a silence_n of_o those_o holy_a father_n but_o we_o produce_v their_o express_a authority_n against_o you_o and_o that_o i_o hope_n be_v a_o good_a argument_n that_o our_o possession_n be_v at_o least_o 300_o year_n better_o than_o you_o and_o that_o you_o not_o we_o have_v be_v innovator_n in_o this_o particular_a 79._o reply_n ibid._n ibid._n haddit_n this_o custom_n of_o pray_v to_o saint_n be_v only_o introduce_v in_o the_o four_o age_n and_o be_v so_o dangerous_a as_o modern_n will_v persuade_v the_o world_n that_o it_o be_v certain_o the_o succeed_a general_n council_n will_v have_v take_v notice_n of_o it_o or_o some_o one_o of_o the_o father_n will_v have_v write_v against_o it_o but_o on_o the_o contrary_a we_o find_v the_o four_o general_n council_n allow_v this_o invocation_n in_o the_o three_o person_n let_v flavian_n the_o martyr_n pray_v for_o we_o 80._o answ_n to_o your_o instance_n from_o the_o four_o general_n council_n i_o reply_v that_o beside_o that_o you_o yourself_o confess_v that_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n there_o be_v a_o mighty_a difference_n between_o wish_v that_o the_o saint_n will_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n for_o their_o aid_n and_o succour_n you_o shall_v have_v know_v that_o this_o council_n be_v hold_v in_o the_o middle_n of_o the_o fâ—â—th_v age_n and_o so_o be_v without_o the_o compass_n of_o what_o i_o be_o here_o to_o consider_v 81._o but_o i_o will_v go_v yet_o far_o with_o you_o as_o to_o this_o instance_n and_o to_o that_o end_n i_o must_v tell_v you_o that_o your_o author_n have_v very_o much_o deceive_v you_o in_o their_o account_n of_o it_o for_o first_o it_o be_v not_o the_o synod_n but_o only_o a_o party_n in_o that_o synod_n that_o cry_v out_o let_v flavian_n the_o martyr_n pray_v for_o we_o and_o second_o even_o they_o that_o do_v cry_v out_o thus_o be_v as_o far_o from_o design_v to_o pray_v to_o flavian_n at_o all_o as_o you_o be_v from_o understand_v the_o meaning_n of_o their_o exclamation_n b._n labbé_fw-fr conc._n tom._n four_o act._n xi_o p._n 697._o b._n the_o occasion_n of_o those_o word_n in_o short_a be_v this_o in_o the_o eleven_o and_o twelve_o action_n of_o that_o council_n there_o arise_v a_o difficult_a debate_n concern_v bassianus_n and_o stephanus_n whether_o of_o the_o two_o be_v lawful_a bishop_n of_o ephesus_n bassian_n have_v this_o plea_n that_o he_o have_v hold_v it_o quiet_o four_o year_n that_o proclus_n and_o his_o successor_n bishop_n of_o constantinople_n have_v communicate_v with_o he_o as_o lawful_a bishop_n of_o that_o see_v among_o who_o be_v flavianus_n but_o late_o decease_v upon_o this_o the_o father_n that_o be_v of_o bassianus_n party_n urge_v to_o the_o synod_n that_o flavian_n by_o communicate_v with_o he_o have_v acknowledge_v he_o to_o be_v lawful_a bishop_n of_o ephesus_n and_o thereupon_o press_v the_o holy_a bishop_n to_o have_v this_o respect_n to_o flavian_n a_o catholic_n and_o martyr_n as_o to_o acknowledge_v bassianus_n to_o be_v the_o true_a bishop_n see_v he_o have_v communicate_v with_o he_o as_o such_o and_o here_o come_v in_o among_o other_o expression_n this_o that_o be_v the_o subject_a of_o our_o present_a debate_n the_o bishop_n and_o clergy_n of_o constantinople_n cry_v out_o in_o honour_n of_o their_o late_a martyr_n this_o be_v the_o truth_n this_o we_o all_o say_v let_v the_o memory_n of_o flavian_n be_v eternal_a let_v the_o memory_n of_o the_o orthodox_n flavian_n be_v eternal_a flavian_n live_v after_o his_o death_n let_v the_o martyr_n pray_v or_o entreat_v for_o we_o flavian_n judge_n with_o we_o this_o be_v the_o occasion_n of_o those_o word_n and_o it_o plain_o show_v that_o all_o they_o mean_v by_o they_o be_v that_o the_o judgement_n of_o flavian_n a_o holy_a bishop_n and_o martyr_n shall_v prevail_v with_o the_o synod_n to_o judge_v of_o bassianus_n side_n with_o who_o he_o have_v communicate_v 82._o as_o for_o your_o argument_n that_o have_v
a_o observance_n of_o the_o law_n together_o with_o the_o gospel_n teach_v also_o that_o angel_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v say_v that_o the_o law_n be_v give_v by_o they_o this_o custom_n remain_v a_o long_a time_n in_o phrygia_n and_o pisidia_n upon_o which_o account_n the_o synod_n of_o laodicea_n in_o phrygia_n forbid_v they_o by_o a_o law_n to_o pray_v to_o angel_n but._n 116._o three_o and_o to_o come_v more_o immediate_o to_o the_o worship_n of_o invocation_n 14._o rom._n x._o 14._o the_o same_o apostle_n in_o that_o question_n rom._n x._o 14._o how_o shall_v they_o call_v upon_o he_o in_o who_o they_o have_v not_o believe_v furnish_v we_o with_o another_o maxim_n of_o holy_a scripture_n against_o all_o such_o prayer_n viz._n that_o no_o one_o be_v to_o be_v invoke_v in_o our_o religious_a address_n but_o he_o only_o in_o who_o we_o believe_v but_o now_o reason_n scripture_n the_o common_a creed_n of_o all_o christian_n show_v that_o we_o be_v to_o believe_v only_a in_o god_n the_o father_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n and_o therefore_o upon_o he_o only_a must_v we_o call._n as_o for_o your_o distinction_n that_o this_o indeed_o in_o one_o sense_n be_v very_o true_a but_o then_o in_o another_o and_o secondary_a sense_n other_o beside_o god_n may_v be_v both_o believe_v in_o 21._o reply_n p._n 21._o and_o call_v upon_o if_o you_o mean_v in_o a_o civil_a respect_n it_o be_v indeed_o very_o true_a but_o nothing_o to_o your_o purpose_n see_v in_o this_o sense_n we_o can_v no_o more_o believe_v in_o than_o we_o can_v call_v upon_o such_o person_n as_o be_v absent_a from_o we_o and_o know_v nothing_o at_o all_o of_o we_o which_o be_v the_o case_n of_o the_o saint_n depart_v but_o for_o believe_v in_o a_o religious_a sense_n as_o it_o be_v proper_o a_o act_n of_o divine_a faith_n and_o the_o foundation_n of_o that_o assurance_n with_o which_o we_o call_v upon_o god_n by_o our_o saviour_n jesus_n christ_n this_o admit_v of_o no_o distinction_n nor_o may_v it_o by_o any_o mean_n or_o in_o any_o measure_n be_v apply_v without_o sin_n to_o any_o other_o than_o god_n alone_o 117._o i_o will_v add_v but_o one_o principle_n more_o of_o holy_a scripture_n against_o this_o service_n and_o so_o close_a this_o first_o point_n rom._n fourteen_o 23._o 23._o rom._n fourteen_o 23._o that_o whatsoever_o be_v not_o of_o faith_n be_v sin._n but_o now_o those_o prayer_n which_o have_v no_o foundation_n in_o holy_a scripture_n can_v be_v of_o faith_n for_o say_v the_o same_o apostle_n rom._n x._o 17._o faith_n come_v by_o hear_v and_o hear_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o therefore_o such_o prayer_n must_v be_v sin._n if_o god_n have_v any_o where_o reveal_v it_o to_o you_o that_o you_o may_v lawful_o give_v such_o a_o religious_a worship_n to_o the_o saint_n show_v this_o and_o our_o dispute_n be_v end_v but_o if_o you_o can_v do_v this_o nor_o by_o consequence_n can_v pray_v to_o they_o with_o any_o well_o ground_a persuasion_n of_o conscience_n that_o this_o be_v what_o god_n allow_v and_o what_o the_o saint_n be_v capable_a of_o receive_v i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o it_o can_v be_v avoid_v but_o that_o to_o you_o it_o must_v be_v sin_n so_o to_o do_v 22._o s._n basil_n reg._n miral_n 78._o cap._n 22._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d as_o a_o ancient_a father_n argue_v from_o this_o very_a principle_n in_o the_o like_a manner_n 118._o for_o the_o other_o part_n of_o this_o service_n the_o intercession_n of_o the_o saint_n for_o we_o i_o may_v to_o this_o oppose_v all_o those_o passage_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o christ_n be_v set_v forth_o to_o we_o as_o our_o only_a mediator_n but_o i_o shall_v content_v myself_o with_o one_o single_a text_n 1_o tim._n ii_o 5_o 6._o there_o be_v one_o god_n 5.6_o 1_o tim._n ii_o 5.6_o and_o one_o mediator_n between_o god_n and_o man_n the_o man_n christ_n jesus_n who_o give_v himself_o a_o ransom_n for_o all_o now_o if_o there_o be_v but_o one_o mediator_n than_o saint_n and_o angel_n be_v not_o mediator_n as_o you_o pretend_v if_o the_o foundation_n of_o christ_n mediatorship_n be_v this_o that_o he_o give_v himself_o a_o ransom_n for_o all_o then_o see_v the_o saint_n have_v not_o do_v this_o it_o must_v follow_v that_o neither_o can_v they_o be_v our_o mediator_n and_o this_o cut_v off_o your_o new_a distinction_n of_o a_o mediator_n of_o intercession_n and_o a_o mediator_n of_o redemption_n which_o beside_o that_o it_o be_v the_o issue_n of_o your_o own_o brain_n and_o be_v invent_v only_o to_o support_v a_o totter_a cause_n be_v here_o utter_o destroy_v see_v the_o foundation_n of_o christ_n mediate_a now_o in_o heaven_n and_o appear_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n for_o we_o be_v by_o virtue_n of_o his_o be_v our_o mediator_n of_o redemption_n upon_o earth_n and_o he_o therefore_o be_v become_v our_o intercessor_n there_o because_o he_o shed_v his_o blood_n for_o our_o expiation_n here_o this_o be_v that_o great_a argument_n upon_o which_o the_o author_n to_o the_o hebrew_n so_o much_o insist_o chap._n ix_o x._o and_o the_o analogy_n of_o the_o high_a priest_n under_o the_o law_n make_v first_o the_o expiatory_a sacrifice_n for_o the_o people_n and_o then_o enter_v into_o the_o holy_a to_o appear_v before_o god_n for_o they_o most_o evident_o confirm_v it_o to_o we_o and_o this_o may_v suffice_v for_o the_o one_a point_v that_o this_o service_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o principle_n of_o holy_a scripture_n ii_o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o antiquity_n 119._o and_o here_o i_o be_o fall_v into_o a_o vast_a ocean_n and_o shall_v never_o have_v end_v shall_v i_o go_v about_o particular_o to_o show_v how_o vain_a your_o pretence_n be_v to_o possession_n for_o this_o superstition_n it_o shall_v suffice_v i_o at_o present_a only_o to_o point_v out_o to_o you_o a_o few_o of_o those_o remark_n which_o other_o have_v more_o large_o pursue_v and_o which_o do_v abundant_o declare_v how_o little_a conformable_a the_o best_a and_o high_a antiquity_n have_v be_v to_o what_o you_o now_o practice_v 120._o i_o have_v already_o give_v some_o short_a account_n of_o the_o first_o three_o century_n and_o how_o little_a able_a you_o be_v to_o lay_v any_o claim_n to_o the_o authority_n of_o they_o you_o have_v there_o see_v what_o the_o opinion_n be_v of_o those_o holy_a father_n touch_v the_o state_n of_o the_o saint_n depart_v how_o they_o think_v that_o they_o do_v not_o yet_o enjoy_v the_o beatific_a vision_n and_o by_o consequence_n be_v not_o in_o a_o condition_n to_o be_v call_v upon_o by_o the_o church_n on_o earth_n i_o have_v show_v you_o the_o father_n argue_v against_o the_o arrian_n for_o the_o divinity_n of_o christ_n from_o the_o church_n pray_v to_o he_o and_o which_o evident_o prove_v that_o they_o think_v none_o but_o god_n be_v capable_a of_o such_o a_o service_n i_o have_v offer_v you_o the_o definition_n which_o those_o holy_a man_n give_v of_o prayer_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v a_o address_n to_o god_n a_o converse_v with_o god_n and_o the_o like_a and_o in_o all_o which_o they_o still_o restrain_v it_o to_o he_o as_o his_o own_o peculiar_a prerogative_n there_o we_o find_v no_o mention_n of_o any_o call_n upon_o the_o bless_a virgin_n or_o the_o saint_n no_o distinction_n of_o supreme_a and_o inferior_a religious_a worship_n of_o mediator_n of_o redemption_n and_o intercession_n in_o short_a none_o of_o those_o evasion_n with_o which_o all_o your_o discourse_n on_o this_o point_n be_v now_o fill_v and_o without_o which_o indeed_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n it_o be_v impossible_a to_o explain_v it_o 121._o but_o i_o will_v now_o add_v yet_o more_o it_o be_v a_o general_a custom_n in_o the_o three_o and_o follow_a age_n concern_v which_o we_o be_v particular_o to_o inquire_v to_o pray_v for_o the_o saint_n depart_v for_o martyr_n and_o confessor_n dead_a discourse_v of_o purgatory_n and_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a nay_o for_o the_o bless_a virgin_n herself_o as_o have_v be_v elsewhere_o full_o prove_v and_o i_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o have_v the_o confidence_n to_o deny_v it_o now_o let_v i_o appeal_v to_o any_o reasonable_a man_n to_o say_v can_v the_o church_n in_o those_o time_n have_v pray_v in_o a_o suppliant_a manner_n to_o the_o saint_n as_o reign_v with_o god_n nay_o and_o god_n themselves_o by_o participation_n to_o aid_v and_o assist_v they_o when_o on_o the_o contrary_n they_o think_v they_o in_o such_o a_o state_n as_o to_o need_v prayer_n to_o god_n for_o they_o be_v it_o to_o be_v believe_v that_o they_o address_v to_o those_o as_o mediator_n and_o intercessor_n with_o god_n for_o who_o they_o themselves_o intercede_v to_o god_n it_o be_v a_o memorable_a remark_n that_o have_v be_v make_v to_o confirm_v the_o force_n
appear_v that_o you_o be_v in_o this_o matter_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o self-condemned_n if_o you_o believe_v this_o worship_n to_o be_v lawful_a and_o yet_o deny_v it_o of_o hypocrisy_n towards_o we_o if_o you_o think_v it_o to_o be_v idolatrous_a and_o yet_o comply_v with_o it_o of_o a_o great_a sin_n towards_o god._n 115._o and_o that_o which_o yet_o farther_z confirm_v i_o in_o this_o be_v to_o consider_v what_o wretched_a evasion_n you_o make_v use_v of_o to_o excuse_v yourselves_o in_o these_o particular_n can_v any_o thing_n be_v more_o pitiful_a than_o the_o exposition_n you_o have_v here_o offer_v of_o your_o consecrate_v of_o cross_n of_o your_o good-friday-service_n and_o of_o the_o hymn_n of_o your_o church_n which_o i_o have_v allege_v as_o instance_n of_o that_o worship_n you_o give_v to_o image_n do_v not_o these_o plain_o show_v a_o desperate_a cause_n and_o that_o you_o be_v but_o too_o sensible_a that_o your_o old_a practice_n be_v not_o to_o be_v reconcile_v with_o your_o new_a pretence_n 116._o if_o while_o i_o be_o endeavour_v to_o convince_v you_o of_o idolatry_n i_o do_v by_o the_o way_n discover_v your_o insincerity_n it_o be_v wat_fw-mi i_o can_v help_v but_o all_o the_o use_n i_o shall_v make_v at_o present_a of_o these_o remark_n shall_v be_v to_o observe_v that_o even_o those_o among_o you_o who_o pretend_v the_o most_o to_o deny_v a_o divine_a worship_n to_o image_n yet_o must_v allow_v such_o act_n of_o it_o as_o these_o i_o have_v here_o recount_v now_o that_o even_o this_o will_v involve_v you_o in_o this_o gild_n be_v evident_a from_o the_o scripture-notion_n of_o idolatry_n before_o establish_v for_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o tell_v i_o if_o you_o can_v what_o do_v those_o israelite_n do_v when_o they_o worship_v the_o golden_a calf_n that_o you_o do_v not_o at_o this_o day_n practice_v in_o the_o very_a same_o manner_n be_v it_o 1._o that_o they_o worship_v god_n by_o a_o image_n but_o if_o this_o be_v idolatry_n you_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o you_o do_v the_o very_a same_o or_o be_v it_o 2._o that_o they_o do_v not_o refer_v their_o worship_n final_o to_o god_n but_o terminate_v their_o adoration_n upon_o the_o very_a image_n itself_o nay_o but_o aaron_n in_o express_a term_n proclaim_v a_o feast_n unto_o the_o lord_n and_o to_o who_o can_v we_o suppose_v that_o they_o offer_v their_o burnt-offering_n and_o their_o peace-offering_n but_o to_o the_o same_o lord_n to_o who_o the_o feast_n itself_o be_v proclaim_v 117._o to_o conclude_v there_o be_v nothing_o in_o that_o whole_a history_n to_o make_v we_o doubt_v but_o that_o they_o design_v that_o calf_n only_o as_o a_o symbol_n of_o the_o god_n of_o israel_n and_o their_o idolatry_n by_o consequence_n be_v no_o other_o than_o what_o the_o most_o moderate_a man_n of_o your_o church_n must_v confess_v themselves_o to_o be_v guilty_a of_o viz._n that_o contrary_a to_o god_n be_v express_a command_n you_o set_v up_o grave_v image_n as_o representation_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n and_o the_o holy_a trinity_n and_o worship_v the_o infinite_a and_o incomprehensible_a god_n in_o a_o figure_n make_v like_a unto_o a_o mortal_a man_n which_o god_n himself_o have_v warrant_v we_o by_o his_o holy_a word_n to_o call_v idolatry_n 118._o it_o remain_v therefore_o upon_o the_o whole_a that_o either_o you_o must_v show_v we_o to_o be_v mistake_v in_o our_o notion_n of_o idolatry_n or_o you_o will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o acquit_v yourselves_o of_o the_o charge_n of_o it_o and_o when_o you_o have_v do_v this_o we_o shall_v then_o only_o tell_v you_o that_o you_o commit_v a_o sin_n in_o this_o service_n that_o you_o violate_v god_n holy_a law_n which_o forbid_v it_o but_o for_o the_o denomination_n of_o it_o we_o shall_v leave_v it_o to_o you_o who_o sin_n it_o be_v to_o give_v it_o what_o particular_a name_n you_o yourselves_o think_v fit_a of_o relic_n 119._o in_o the_o point_n of_o relic_n you_o offer_v only_o two_o thing_n in_o answer_n to_o all_o that_o i_o have_v say_v upon_o that_o subject_a etc._n replâ—_n p._n 42._o etc._n etc._n viz._n reply_v first_n that_o the_o whole_a of_o my_o discourse_n proceed_v upon_o verbal_a dispute_n what_o we_o be_v to_o call_v that_o honour_n which_o you_o give_v to_o they_o and_o which_o you_o deny_v to_o be_v proper_o worship_n second_o you_o once_o more_o egregious_o cavil_v about_o the_o translation_n of_o that_o part_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n which_o concern_v this_o subject_a and_o deny_v that_o you_o seek_v to_o the_o sacred_a monument_n or_o relic_n of_o the_o saint_n for_o the_o obtain_n of_o their_o help_n and_o assistance_n 120._o answ_n for_o answer_v to_o which_o pretence_n because_o i_o as_o little_a love_n to_o prolong_v dispute_n at_o any_o time_n ibid._n reply_v ibid._n as_o you_o do_v when_o you_o have_v no_o more_o to_o say_v in_o order_n to_o the_o carry_v of_o they_o on_o i_o will_v lay_v aside_o word_n and_o bring_v the_o issue_n to_o the_o thing_n themselves_o and_o show_v how_o miserable_o you_o have_v prevaricate_v in_o this_o point_n too_o as_o wella_n in_o the_o forego_n by_o prove_v i._o that_o you_o do_v proper_o worship_v the_o relic_n of_o your_o saint_n ii_o that_o you_o do_v seek_v to_o they_o for_o help_n and_o assistance_n and_o when_o this_o be_v do_v i_o shall_v not_o need_v say_v any_o thing_n to_o prove_v that_o you_o here_o also_o commit_v idolatry_n see_v you_o allow_v the_o case_n of_o image_n and_o relic_n to_o be_v the_o same_o 44._o reply_v p._n 44._o and_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n make_v this_o to_o be_v the_o very_a difference_n between_o the_o heathen_n and_o they_o and_o that_o by_o which_o they_o hope_v to_o escape_v the_o censure_n of_o idolatry_n viz._n that_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v any_o divinity_n or_o virtue_n in_o image_n for_o which_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v worship_v or_o that_o any_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v ask_v of_o they_o or_o any_o trust_n to_o be_v put_v in_o they_o though_o how_o true_o they_o declare_v this_o the_o account_n i_o have_v before_o give_v of_o your_o consecrate_v both_o of_o cross_n and_o agnus_n dei_n will_n sufficient_o show_v i._o that_o you_o do_v true_o and_o proper_o worship_v the_o relic_n of_o your_o saint_n 121._o this_o be_v a_o point_n that_o in_o any_o other_o age_n or_o country_n but_o we_o will_v have_v need_v no_o proof_n and_o it_o be_v not_o the_o least_o argument_n of_o a_o innovate_a spirit_n in_o you_o that_o no_o word_n or_o expression_n be_v of_o any_o value_n with_o you_o as_o often_o as_o you_o be_v mind_v to_o give_v we_o what_o you_o call_v the_o church_n sense_n let_v your_o writer_n use_v never_o so_o many_o phrase_n to_o assure_v to_o we_o their_o opinion_n that_o relic_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v all_o this_o signify_v nothing_o they_o mean_v no_o more_o by_o it_o than_o a_o honour_n or_o veneration_n due_a to_o the_o sacred_a remain_n of_o those_o saint_n who_o be_v once_o the_o temple_n of_o the_o live_a god_n 42._o reply_v p._n 42._o and_o not_o a_o worship_n or_o adoration_n take_v in_o its_o strict_a sense_n there_o be_v hardly_o a_o expression_n that_o can_v signify_v a_o proper_a worship_n which_o your_o own_o author_n have_v not_o make_v use_n of_o to_o declare_v the_o service_n they_o think_v due_a to_o they_o i_o adore_v worship_n embrace_v the_o relic_n of_o the_o saint_n say_v one_o in_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o the_o whole_a assembly_n resolve_v act._n iu._n that_o their_o bone_n ash_n rag_n blood_n and_o sepulcher_n shall_v be_v adore_v only_a man_n shall_v not_o offer_v sacrifice_n unto_o they_o card._n baronius_n speak_v of_o it_o as_o a_o honour_n do_v he_o by_o pope_n clement_n viiith_o 14._o annal._n ad_fw-la ann._n 821._o 821._o 14._o that_o though_o most_o unworthy_a of_o so_o great_a a_o undertake_n he_o be_v yet_o send_v by_o he_o to_o examine_v and_o adore_v the_o venerable_a body_n of_o s._n cecilia_n and_o though_o the_o cautious_a synod_n of_o trent_n say_v only_o that_o relic_n shall_v be_v venerate_v yet_o see_v it_o neither_o condemn_v the_o opinion_n of_o those_o who_o teach_v they_o be_v to_o be_v worship_v but_o rather_o allow_v the_o act_n of_o proper_a divine_a service_n to_o be_v pay_v to_o they_o what_o can_v we_o conclude_v but_o that_o they_o make_v use_v of_o a_o loose_a expression_n to_o satisfy_v the_o more_o moderate_a party_n of_o your_o communion_n at_o the_o same_o time_n that_o they_o resolve_v by_o their_o practice_n to_o favour_v the_o superstition_n of_o those_o who_o proper_o adore_v they_o 122._o now_o that_o this_o be_v true_o the_o case_n will_v appear_v first_o from_o what_o i_o have_v before_o say_v concern_v the_o holy_a cross_n which_o be_v consider_v by_o