be_v every_o body_n else_o that_o i_o can_v speak_v to_o and_o which_o be_v worst_a of_o all_o i_o must_v not_o judge_v between_o these_o different_a party_n which_o of_o they_o speak_v the_o church_n sense_n because_o i_o be_o that_o way_n infallible_o throw_v upon_o my_o own_o sentiment_n which_o be_v as_o private_a as_o can_v be_v in_o this_o state_n there_o be_v no_o council_n sit_v i_o have_v no_o live_a judge_n upon_o earth_n to_o help_v i_o and_o i_o be_o sure_a i_o must_v not_o be_v a_o live_a judge_n for_o myself_o so_o that_o i_o have_v no_o oracle_n to_o go_v to_o but_o a_o few_o dead_a letter_n which_o can_v speak_v and_o i_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o expect_v whilst_o i_o be_o doubt_v whether_o the_o word_n mean_v capisucchi_n or_o de_fw-fr meaux_n sense_n that_o the_o letter_n shall_v disappear_v and_o other_o letter_n rise_v in_o the_o room_n of_o they_o and_o make_v word_n plain_a enough_o to_o end_v the_o dispute_n and_o therefore_o i_o think_v we_o must_v do_v as_o 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for_o those_o advice_n do_v not_o only_o of_o themselves_o intimate_v that_o there_o be_v some_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n who_o need_v they_o but_o by_o the_o opposition_n that_o be_v make_v against_o it_o they_o show_v too_o that_o there_o be_v some_o practice_n condemn_v there_o which_o the_o prevail_a part_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n can_v not_o bear_v the_o condemnation_n of_o the_o vindicator_n indeed_o will_v make_v we_o believe_v 5._o pag._n 5._o that_o the_o church_n be_v not_o to_o answer_v for_o the_o extravagancy_n condemn_v in_o those_o advice_n because_o she_o have_v always_o take_v care_n to_o instruct_v the_o people_n better_o but_o he_o regard_v not_o what_o he_o say_v i_o pray_v what_o care_n do_v she_o take_v to_o instruct_v they_o better_o when_o monsieur_n widenfelt_n who_o take_v a_o little_a honest_a care_n about_o it_o be_v serve_v as_o father_n crasset_fw-la assure_v we_o he_o be_v when_o the_o holy_a see_v condemn_v he_o when_o spain_n banish_v he_o and_o forbid_v the_o read_n and_o print_n of_o his_o book_n and_o in_o a_o word_n when_o the_o learned_a of_o all_o nation_n be_v say_v to_o condemn_v he_o and_o all_o this_o but_o for_o advise_v the_o people_n better_o the_o vindicator_n call_v this_o a_o scandalous_a insinuation_n and_o say_v that_o the_o defender_n know_v it_o to_o be_v such_o and_o talk_v as_o if_o he_o have_v prove_v it_o without_o say_v a_o word_n where_o he_o have_v do_v so_o and_o yet_o father_n crasset_fw-la publish_v it_o no_o long_o ago_o than_o in_o the_o year_n 1679._o in_o the_o preface_n to_o his_o la_n veritable_a devotion_n etc._n etc._n what_o shall_v we_o do_v with_o this_o man_n who_o grow_v rude_a when_o he_o have_v nothing_o to_o say_v to_o the_o argument_n and_o will_v then_o have_v we_o to_o speak_v against_o our_o conscience_n when_o he_o either_o do_v so_o himself_o or_o talk_v of_o thing_n without_o knowledge_n he_o say_v the_o defender_n have_v give_v we_o in_o another_o place_n it_o may_v 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at_o all_o this_o man_n will_v fain_o say_v something_o if_o he_o know_v what_o do_v nothing_o then_o belong_v to_o popery_n at_o all_o which_o father_n crasset_fw-la do_v not_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n i_o be_o somewhat_o sure_a that_o father_n crasset_fw-la will_v not_o acknowledge_v it_o to_o be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n that_o no_o more_o honour_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o virgin_n than_o what_o mr._n widenfelt_n or_o m._n de_fw-fr meaux_n allow_v to_o be_v give_v to_o she_o nay_o instead_o of_o defend_v we_o be_v very_o sure_a that_o he_o have_v oppose_v that_o doctrine_n and_o do_v not_o the_o bishop_n exposition_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n in_o this_o point_n belong_v to_o popery_n at_o all_o but_o let_v this_o pass_n at_o present_a fa._n crasset_fw-la defend_v in_o gross_a what_o widenfelt_n condemn_v and_o do_v withal_o defend_v it_o as_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n to_o what_o he_o take_v widenfelt_n book_n to_o be_v a_o outrage_n and_o if_o crasset_fw-la believe_v what_o he_o defend_v not_o only_o to_o belong_v to_o popery_n but_o to_o be_v the_o true_a and_o genuine_a popery_n of_o the_o church_n this_o man_n hurt_v himself_o and_o not_o we_o by_o do_v all_o he_o can_v to_o prove_v that_o crasset_n doctrine_n can_v belong_v to_o popery_n at_o all_o this_o be_v what_o we_o say_v that_o some_o of_o they_o call_v that_o popery_n which_o other_o deny_v to_o be_v so_o and_o that_o what_o be_v heretofore_o universal_o maintain_v as_o popery_n and_o be_v so_o maintain_v by_o the_o most_o considerable_a as_o well_o as_o the_o most_o numerous_a party_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n now_o be_v by_o some_o other_o that_o we_o have_v to_o do_v with_o reject_v as_o not_o belong_v to_o popery_n at_o all_o which_o make_v good_a what_o the_o defender_n say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o in_o our_o calumny_n that_o this_o reflect_a distinction_n be_v to_o be_v find_v but_o in_o the_o real_a disagreement_n of_o those_o of_o their_o own_o communion_n but_o because_o these_o man_n be_v always_o fly_v to_o the_o church_n sense_n to_o make_v they_o and_o the_o old_a papist_n one_o though_o all_o the_o world_n see_v that_o they_o be_v divide_v about_o this_o question_n what_o be_v popery_n therefore_o the_o defender_n be_v desirous_a to_o know_v what_o at_o last_o this_o thing_n call_v the_o church_n sense_n be_v and_o how_o we_o may_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o it_o to_o both_o part_n of_o this_o question_n the_o vindicator_n condescend_v though_o with_o some_o frown_v to_o return_v a_o answer_n first_o 5._o pag._n 5._o say_v he_o the_o church_n sense_n in_o our_o case_n be_v that_o which_o she_o deliver_v as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n or_o a_o necessary_a practice_n i_o shall_v be_v too_o troublesome_a to_o he_o to_o ask_v upon_o this_o occasion_n what_o he_o shall_v mean_v by_o those_o word_n in_o our_o case_n and_o by_o some_o other_o expression_n that_o occur_v in_o the_o 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vindicator_n good_a leave_n and_o first_o of_o the_o former_a i._o where_o i_o desire_v he_o not_o to_o take_v it_o ill_o if_o i_o ask_v he_o one_o question_n or_o two_o with_o some_o under_o question_n which_o can_v be_v spare_v for_o if_o he_o have_v no_o mind_n to_o answer_v they_o he_o may_v let_v it_o alone_o the_o question_n be_v this_o whether_o there_o be_v no_o way_n to_o know_v what_o the_o church_n deliver_v as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n but_o by_o her_o voice_n in_o her_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n the_o reason_n of_o the_o question_n be_v this_o because_o if_o there_o be_v another_o way_n and_o if_o the_o gentleman_n of_o the_o old_a popery_n shall_v chance_v to_o prove_v their_o doctrine_n to_o be_v the_o church_n sense_n that_o way_n the_o vindicator_n will_v be_v at_o
a_o loss_n again_o and_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n in_o council_n will_v do_v he_o little_a service_n in_o those_o point_n where_o it_o may_v be_v council_n be_v silent_a if_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n out_o of_o council_n be_v plain_o and_o loud_o against_o he_o and_o his_o party_n if_o the_o vindicator_n than_o shall_v say_v that_o though_o the_o church_n have_v a_o sense_n of_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n out_o of_o council_n yet_o that_o sense_n can_v or_o at_o least_o be_v never_o deliver_v but_o by_o her_o voice_n in_o general_a council_n then_o i_o have_v one_o other_o question_n to_o put_v which_o will_v break_v out_o into_o a_o few_o more_o but_o which_o he_o who_o have_v consider_v these_o thing_n very_o well_o will_v make_v no_o difficulty_n to_o answer_v this_o question_n be_v how_o the_o church_n sense_n come_v to_o be_v know_v concern_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n before_o any_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n deliver_v they_o for_o such_o which_o question_n will_v appear_v to_o be_v a_o very_a reasonable_a one_o if_o he_o will_v please_v to_o read_v these_o that_o follow_v 1._o whether_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o the_o same_o now_o that_o they_o be_v from_o the_o beginning_n 2._o whether_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n concern_v these_o doctrine_n have_v not_o be_v always_o the_o same_o 3._o whether_o the_o church_n therefore_o have_v not_o the_o same_o sense_n of_o they_o before_o they_o be_v deliver_v by_o her_o voice_n in_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n that_o she_o have_v afterward_o or_o whether_o she_o have_v one_o sense_n and_o deliver_v another_o and_o then_o as_o i_o say_v at_o first_o 4._o if_o she_o have_v the_o same_o sense_n before_o it_o be_v so_o deliver_v that_o she_o have_v when_o she_o deliver_v it_o and_o after_o she_o deliver_v it_o how_o come_v that_o sense_n to_o be_v know_v before_o this_o i_o think_v be_v plain_a enough_o but_o if_o it_o be_v not_o i_o will_v try_v to_o make_v it_o plain_o therefore_o 1._o we_o say_v with_o the_o romanist_n that_o it_o be_v a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n that_o the_o son_n be_v of_o the_o same_o substance_n with_o the_o father_n but_o this_o doctrine_n be_v never_o deliver_v in_o a_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n before_o the_o first_o council_n of_o nice_a as_o it_o be_v impossible_a it_o shall_v because_o that_o be_v the_o first_o general_n council_n i_o will_v know_v of_o the_o vindicator_n whether_o the_o church_n sense_n concern_v that_o doctrine_n be_v not_o to_o be_v know_v before_o and_o how_o it_o be_v to_o be_v know_v 2._o the_o romanist_n say_v that_o it_o be_v a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n that_o in_o the_o eucharist_n the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n and_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o wine_n into_o the_o substance_n of_o his_o blood._n but_o this_o be_v never_o deliver_v in_o any_o pretend_a general_n and_o approve_a council_n as_o we_o be_v very_o sure_a before_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n under_o innocent_a iii_o i_o will_v know_v of_o the_o vindicator_n whether_o the_o church_n have_v the_o same_o sense_n of_o this_o transubstantiation_n before_o that_o lateran_n council_n which_o it_o be_v say_v to_o have_v have_v since_o and_o whether_o that_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n be_v know_v and_o if_o so_o then_o how_o it_o be_v know_v i_o have_v give_v the_o vindicator_n two_o instance_n one_o of_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n for_o which_o we_o contend_v no_o less_o than_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o as_o we_o think_v to_o better_a purpose_n another_o of_o a_o doctrine_n which_o that_o church_n say_v be_v of_o faith_n though_o we_o say_v it_o destroy_v all_o faith_n and_o these_o two_o in_o behalf_n of_o all_o that_o be_v real_a and_o of_o all_o that_o be_v by_o they_o pretend_v to_o be_v doctrine_n of_o faith._n for_o till_o i_o be_o better_a inform_v by_o the_o vindicator_n in_o answer_n to_o the_o foresay_a question_n i_o say_v of_o all_o the_o doctrine_n of_o both_o kind_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v some_o way_n to_o come_v to_o the_o church_n sense_n about_o these_o thing_n before_o she_o deliver_v her_o sense_n of_o they_o in_o the_o voice_n of_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n this_o i_o shall_v presume_v till_o he_o acquaint_v i_o otherwise_o and_o if_o he_o do_v not_o yet_o understand_v which_o way_n these_o question_n drive_v i_o will_v now_o tell_v he_o let_v he_o keep_v to_o his_o principle_n and_o show_v i_o by_o what_o way_n the_o church_n sense_n come_v to_o be_v know_v concern_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n before_o they_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o voice_n of_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n and_o then_o let_v he_o leave_v it_o to_o i_o to_o show_v he_o by_o the_o same_o way_n that_o old_a popery_n as_o we_o call_v it_o have_v be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n till_o these_o expound_v and_o represent_v day_n of_o we_o nay_o and_o that_o father_n crasset_fw-la shall_v prove_v by_o the_o same_o way_n that_o it_o be_v now_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n whatever_o some_o few_o man_n of_o that_o communion_n may_v pretend_v to_o the_o contrary_n and_o when_o i_o have_v do_v this_o the_o vindicator_n shall_v by_o i_o be_v never_o contradict_v while_o he_o on_o the_o other_o side_n prove_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v quite_o different_a from_o what_o father_n crasset_fw-la in_o his_o way_n prove_v to_o be_v so_o for_o most_o undoubted_o he_o thereby_o do_v our_o work_n for_o we_o and_o enable_v we_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o must_v of_o necessity_n be_v two_o church-sense_n betwixt_o they_o and_o consequent_o two_o sort_n of_o popery_n a_o old_a popery_n and_o a_o new_a popery_n whereas_o therefore_o the_o vindicator_n say_v till_o you_o can_v prove_v by_o the_o express_a word_n of_o a_o general_n approve_a council_n that_o what_o you_o term_v old_a popery_n be_v deliver_v as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n all_z you_o say_v will_v avail_v nothing_o i_o will_v be_v glad_a to_o know_v what_o the_o vindicator_n will_v have_v say_v in_o behalf_n of_o transubstantiation_n so_o some_o such_o man_n as_o rabanus_n maurus_n or_o bertram_n or_o berengarius_fw-la if_o he_o have_v live_v in_o their_o time_n and_o they_o shall_v have_v say_v to_o he_o though_o i_o think_v in_o my_o conscience_n none_o of_o they_o will_v have_v talk_v so_o insipid_o till_o you_o can_v prove_v by_o the_o express_a word_n of_o a_o general_n approve_a council_n that_o what_o you_o term_v the_o catholic_a faith_n concern_v christ_n presence_n in_o the_o eucharist_n be_v deliver_v as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n all_o you_o say_v will_v avail_v nothing_o here_o i_o will_v not_o allow_v that_o the_o vindicator_n shall_v bring_v in_o the_o doctor_n and_o saint_n of_o the_o church_n who_o may_v be_v pretend_v to_o bear_v testimony_n to_o the_o church_n sense_n in_o this_o point_n for_o he_o have_v foreclose_v himself_o as_o to_o this_o relief_n and_o that_o by_o give_v the_o defender_n a_o notable_a reason_n why_o all_o he_o can_v say_v will_v avail_v he_o nothing_o if_o he_o bring_v not_o the_o express_a word_n of_o a_o council_n for_o say_v he_o you_o bring_v only_o the_o sentiment_n of_o private_a man_n which_o other_o member_n of_o the_o same_o church_n condemn_v i_o have_v urge_v this_o matter_n further_o than_o i_o intend_v at_o first_o for_o i_o mean_v not_o to_o press_v for_o answer_n to_o the_o forego_n question_n with_o much_o importunity_n and_o now_o i_o say_v no_o more_o than_o that_o i_o shall_v take_v it_o very_o kind_o of_o the_o vindicator_n if_o he_o will_v please_v to_o admit_v these_o thing_n into_o his_o consideration_n and_o enlighten_v i_o with_o his_o thought_n about_o they_o ii_o i_o proceed_v in_o the_o second_o place_n to_o suppose_v a_o very_a strange_a thing_n for_o fear_v the_o vindicator_n shall_v affirm_v it_o and_o that_o be_v that_o nothing_o be_v to_o be_v take_v for_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n as_o to_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n but_o what_o she_o declare_v by_o her_o voice_n in_o general_n approve_v council_n for_o if_o we_o take_v the_o cause_n by_o this_o handle_n the_o distinction_n between_o old_a and_o new_a popery_n will_v i_o believe_v go_v on_o as_o roundly_o as_o it_o do_v before_o and_o some_o inconvenience_n too_o will_v follow_v in_o the_o close_a to_o trouble_v the_o vindicator_n no_o less_o than_o this_o odious_a distinction_n between_o old_a and_o new_a popery_n because_o i_o will_v lead_v he_o fair_o to_o the_o business_n i_o ask_v he_o in_o the_o first_o place_n whether_o his_o church_n have_v deliver_v her_o sense_n concern_v those_o two_o point_n which_o he_o mention_n upon_o this_o occasion_n by_o her_o voice_n in_o general_n and_o
approve_a council_n or_o whether_o she_o have_v not_o the_o two_o point_n be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o the_o doctrine_n of_o worship_v image_n if_o she_o have_v not_o do_v it_o then_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n there_o can_v be_v no_o doctrine_n concern_v these_o two_o thing_n which_o can_v be_v call_v a_o doctrine_n of_o faith._n the_o vindicator_n therefore_o will_v say_v i_o hope_v that_o she_o have_v deliver_v her_o sense_n by_o her_o voice_n and_o so_o i_o ask_v he_o in_o the_o second_o place_n whether_o by_o the_o doctrine_n which_o the_o church_n deliver_v he_o understand_v only_o so_o many_o word_n put_v together_o and_o not_o rather_o the_o sense_n of_o those_o word_n which_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o church_n use_v that_o be_v which_o her_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n have_v put_v together_o to_o express_v their_o mean_v by_o this_o be_v a_o question_n which_o the_o vindicator_n must_v needs_o understand_v because_o i_o do_v in_o effect_n but_o borrow_v it_o of_o his_o friend_n for_o the_o like_a question_n have_v be_v often_o put_v to_o we_o by_o they_o and_o particular_o by_o his_o good_a friend_n the_o representer_n and_o it_o may_v be_v by_o himself_o viz._n whether_o by_o the_o scripture_n we_o understand_v the_o word_n or_o the_o sense_n so_o say_v i_o by_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n which_o the_o vindicator_n say_v be_v deliver_v by_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o her_o general_n council_n do_v he_o mean_v the_o sense_n or_o the_o word_n only_o of_o her_o council_n i_o will_v for_o once_o answer_v for_o he_o that_o he_o mean_v the_o sense_n which_o be_v contain_v under_o the_o word_n i_o ask_v he_o therefore_o the_o three_o time_n whether_o the_o sense_n of_o those_o word_n which_o his_o general_n council_n have_v put_v together_o 6._o pag._n 6._o be_v not_o as_o he_o say_v what_o true_o we_o ought_v to_o mean_v by_o popery_n if_o i_o may_v be_v bold_a to_o answer_v for_o he_o once_o more_o he_o must_v needs_o grant_v it_o for_o if_o the_o church_n doctrine_n of_o faith_n be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o sense_n of_o her_o general_a council_n and_o if_o that_o which_o we_o ought_v to_o call_v popery_n and_o to_o mean_v by_o popery_n be_v the_o church_n doctrine_n of_o faith_n it_o will_v go_v very_o hard_o if_o popery_n be_v not_o the_o sense_n of_o her_o general_a council_n and_o now_o the_o odious_a distinction_n clear_v up_o apace_o in_o go_v this_o way_n to_o work_v for_o if_o that_o part_n of_o popery_n which_o be_v make_v by_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n be_v neither_o more_o nor_o less_o than_o the_o sense_n of_o general_n council_n concern_v such_o doctrine_n as_o we_o protestant_n disclaim_v it_o follow_v present_o that_o the_o sense_n of_o those_o council_n be_v what_o we_o ought_v to_o call_v popery_n and_o therefore_o 1._o i_o humble_o conceive_v that_o if_o there_o be_v two_o party_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n that_o be_v not_o agree_v what_o the_o sense_n of_o her_o general_a council_n be_v it_o follow_v out_o of_o hand_n that_o so_o far_o they_o be_v not_o agree_v about_o popery_n and_o that_o for_o this_o very_a good_a reason_n because_o the_o sense_n of_o her_o general_a council_n and_o the_o faith_n part_n of_o popery_n according_a to_o he_o be_v all_o one_o and_o indeed_o but_o two_o expression_n of_o the_o same_o thing_n 2._o it_o follow_v also_o that_o in_o what_o sense_n soever_o either_o of_o those_o party_n take_v the_o word_n of_o the_o church_n council_n that_o sense_n be_v and_o must_v necessary_o be_v that_o party_n popery_n because_o the_o sense_n of_o her_o council_n be_v popery_n that_o which_o be_v to_o one_o party_n the_o sense_n of_o her_o council_n must_v likewise_o be_v popery_n to_o that_o party_n 3._o if_o therefore_o one_o of_o those_o party_n take_v the_o word_n of_o her_o council_n in_o one_o sense_n and_o another_o take_v the_o same_o word_n in_o a_o contradictory_n sense_n then_o because_o the_o sense_n in_o which_o the_o former_a take_v those_o word_n be_v the_o popery_n of_o or_o to_o that_o party_n and_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o latter_a be_v its_o popery_n it_o unavoidable_o follow_v that_o there_o be_v two_o pretend_a popery_n betwixt_o those_o two_o party_n which_o be_v inconsistent_a with_o one_o another_o 4._o if_o the_o sense_n of_o one_o of_o these_o party_n be_v that_o which_o prevail_v without_o control_v ever_o since_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n till_o very_o late_o and_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o other_o party_n be_v therefore_o but_o of_o yesterday_o then_o of_o these_o two_o popery_n the_o former_a must_v needs_o be_v the_o old_a popery_n and_o the_o latter_a the_o new_a popery_n 5._o so_o much_o reason_n as_o we_o have_v to_o believe_v the_o old_a popery_n to_o be_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o the_o church_n council_n rather_o than_o the_o new_a one_o so_o much_o reason_n also_o we_o have_v to_o believe_v that_o the_o old_a popery_n be_v the_o true_a popery_n and_o the_o new_a to_o be_v but_o a_o imposture_n or_o a_o mistake_n of_o those_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o have_v of_o late_o bring_v it_o up_o 6._o and_o last_o if_o protestant_n do_v not_o make_v those_o different_a sense_n for_o they_o but_o each_o party_n in_o that_o church_n make_v they_o for_o themselves_o than_o this_o distinction_n of_o a_o old_a and_o a_o new_a popery_n be_v no_o misrepresentation_n falsification_n or_o calumny_n of_o protestant_n but_o a_o distinction_n ground_v upon_o the_o real_a disagreement_n of_o papist_n about_o popery_n quod_fw-la erat_fw-la demonstrandum_fw-la but_o i_o think_v that_o man_n be_v never_o put_v to_o it_o as_o we_o be_v to_o make_v solemn_a proof_n of_o thing_n that_o be_v so_o evident_a that_o they_o need_v not_o to_o be_v prove_v at_o all_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n determine_v that_o we_o be_v to_o fly_v to_o the_o prayer_n the_o help_n and_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o saint_n if_o we_o will_v know_v the_o council_n sense_n in_o this_o matter_n the_o old_a one_o will_v tell_v we_o that_o the_o meaning_n be_v we_o shall_v have_v recourse_n to_o they_o for_o other_o aid_n beside_o their_o prayer_n and_o as_o one_o will_v very_o take_v this_o for_o the_o meaning_n from_o the_o construction_n of_o the_o word_n themselves_o so_o the_o term_n of_o invoke_v the_o saint_n which_o be_v then_o use_v in_o their_o office_n and_o still_o be_v so_o do_v manifest_o favour_v that_o interpretation_n but_o our_o new_a expositor_n come_v and_o tell_v we_o that_o they_o require_v no_o other_o aid_n and_o assistance_n from_o the_o saint_n than_o their_o prayer_n and_o the_o vindicator_n intimate_v that_o if_o they_o do_v we_o shall_v have_v something_o to_o say_v against_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o what_o they_o practise_v if_o popery_n therefore_o be_v not_o so_o much_o the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n in_o which_o i_o acknowledge_v they_o all_o agree_v as_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n in_o which_o they_o do_v not_o agree_v how_o be_v it_o possible_a but_o that_o here_o be_v two_o popery_n in_o this_o matter_n advance_v among_o themselves_o one_o against_o the_o other_o again_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n affirm_v that_o due_a honour_n and_o veneration_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n and_o therefore_o what_o one_o party_n in_o that_o church_n take_v to_o be_v that_o due_a honour_n be_v popery_n to_o they_o because_o it_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n to_o that_o party_n and_o what_o another_o believe_v to_o be_v so_o be_v their_o popery_n and_o here_o i_o be_o sure_a if_o we_o find_v a_o harmony_n it_o be_v make_v up_o all_o of_o discord_n indeed_o one_o will_v have_v think_v that_o the_o council_n by_o due_a honour_n and_o veneration_n have_v mean_v that_o worship_n which_o be_v at_o that_o time_n give_v to_o image_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o their_o office_n require_v and_o for_o which_o their_o most_o celebrate_a writer_n have_v contend_v and_o this_o way_n of_o come_v to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n must_v lead_v a_o man_n to_o the_o popery_n of_o give_v the_o same_o honour_n to_o the_o image_n that_o be_v due_a to_o the_o prototype_n or_o at_o least_o a_o inferior_a honour_n by_o which_o the_o image_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v true_o and_o proper_o worship_v for_o the_o former_a sense_n cardinal_n capisucchi_fw-it dos_n at_o this_o day_n earnest_o contend_v and_o very_o fair_o argue_v it_o against_o all_o opposer_n from_o the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n but_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n and_o the_o representer_n and_o the_o vindicator_n be_v as_o cross_v to_o that_o sense_n as_o downright_a contradiction_n can_v make_v they_o they_o say_v etc._n see_v second_o def._n p._n 31_o 32_o etc._n etc._n that_o in_o presence_n of_o
image_n respect_n be_v pay_v to_o the_o person_n who_o they_o represent_v but_o image_n themselves_o be_v not_o to_o be_v worship_v no_o god_n forbid_v but_o only_o use_v to_o put_v we_o in_o mind_n of_o the_o original_a thus_o they_o explicate_v the_o language_n i._n e._n give_v we_o the_o sense_n of_o their_o church_n in_o her_o decision_n of_o faith_n but_o so_o i_o dare_v say_v as_o it_o be_v never_o explicate_v before_o however_o if_o these_o gentleman_n believe_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n to_o be_v as_o they_o say_v i_o wonder_v how_o it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o the_o vindicator_n shall_v not_o acknowledge_v it_o to_o be_v popery_n for_o he_o must_v not_o forget_v that_o popery_n be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n which_o she_o deliver_v by_o her_o voice_n in_o council_n and_o therefore_o that_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n word_n it_o true_o popery_n and_o consequent_o what_o he_o and_o his_o party_n take_v to_o be_v their_o sense_n they_o must_v in_o spite_n of_o their_o heart_n confess_v to_o be_v their_o popery_n unless_o they_o care_v not_o how_o inconsistent_o they_o talk_v and_o then_o i_o will_v ask_v the_o vindicator_n whether_o it_o be_v possible_a to_o reconcile_v he_o and_o the_o bishop_n sense_n with_o cardinal_n capisucchi_n and_o those_o of_o his_o way_n the_o truth_n be_v the_o vindicator_n have_v give_v up_o the_o cause_n for_o by_o say_v that_o we_o bring_v only_o the_o private_a sentiment_n of_o man_n which_o other_o member_n of_o the_o same_o church_n condemn_v he_o confess_v that_o they_o do_v in_o these_o thing_n condemn_v one_o another_o which_o perfect_o acquit_v we_o from_o the_o charge_n of_o misrepresent_v they_o when_o we_o say_v that_o there_o be_v two_o sort_n of_o popery_n among_o they_o by_o which_o we_o never_o mean_v any_o thing_n else_o than_o that_o one_o party_n of_o they_o and_o that_o the_o great_a do_v earnest_o contend_v that_o that_o be_v popery_n which_o the_o other_o utter_o disclaim_v and_o do_v therefore_o set_v up_o another_o sense_n of_o their_o council_n and_o their_o public_a office_n opposite_a to_o that_o of_o the_o former_a as_o for_o his_o call_v the_o sentiment_n of_o the_o opposite_a party_n private_a sentiment_n if_o he_o mean_v that_o they_o keep_v their_o persuasion_n to_o themselves_o and_o do_v not_o trouble_v the_o church_n with_o they_o he_o be_v to_o know_v that_o as_o the_o man_n be_v not_o private_a but_o of_o great_a note_n and_o authority_n in_o the_o r._n church_n and_o the_o number_n of_o their_o follower_n far_o more_o considerable_a than_o of_o they_o who_o condemn_v they_o so_o their_o sentiment_n be_v not_o private_a neither_o but_o as_o public_a as_o dispute_v for_o they_o and_o censure_v and_o punish_v their_o opposer_n can_v make_v they_o but_o if_o i_o can_v understand_v he_o by_o private_a sentiment_n he_o mean_v the_o sentiment_n of_o man_n out_o of_o council_n so_o that_o no_o measure_n be_v to_o be_v take_v of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o their_o church_n by_o what_o be_v deliver_v by_o such_o man_n though_o they_o be_v bishop_n or_o cardinal_n and_o their_o number_n never_o so_o great_a and_o their_o declaration_n never_o so_o public_a and_o notorious_a and_o their_o censure_n never_o so_o sharp_a against_o those_o that_o oppose_v they_o for_o still_o they_o be_v but_o the_o private_a sentiment_n of_o man_n out_o of_o council_n why_o then_o must_v the_o representer_n or_o the_o vindicator_n or_o even_o his_o lordship_n the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n sentiment_n concern_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n go_v for_o any_o other_o than_o the_o private_a sentiment_n of_o man_n for_o their_o exposition_n have_v be_v neither_o make_v nor_o approve_v in_o general_a council_n must_v cardinal_n capisucchi_fw-it the_o archbishop_n of_o bourdeaux_n and_o father_n crasset_fw-la with_o his_o holy_a bishop_n and_o learned_a doctor_n nay_o and_o with_o the_o learned_a of_o all_o nation_n be_v say_v to_o deliver_v only_o the_o sentiment_n of_o private_a man_n while_o a_o few_o teacher_n that_o arise_v in_o this_o age_n who_o party_n be_v despicable_a who_o labour_n under_o the_o mark_n of_o insincerity_n who_o doctrine_n be_v profess_v in_o good_a earnest_n be_v persecute_v by_o that_o church_n who_o faith_n it_o be_v say_v to_o be_v whilst_o those_o man_n i_o say_v must_v be_v think_v to_o deliver_v the_o true_a and_o genuine_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n but_o if_o neither_o the_o one_o side_n nor_o the_o other_o side_n deliver_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n who_o know_v what_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n be_v and_o how_o shall_v i_o come_v by_o it_o the_o vindicator_n direct_v i_o to_o the_o express_a word_n of_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n but_o then_o i_o must_v needs_o ask_v he_o who_o be_v to_o be_v judge_n of_o the_o sense_n of_o those_o express_a word_n i_o see_v express_v word_n indeed_o and_o i_o be_o very_o apt_a to_o think_v that_o i_o do_v understand_v the_o sense_n of_o plain_a and_o express_v word_n but_o if_o i_o may_v be_v allow_v to_o understand_v express_a word_n why_o can_v i_o not_o as_o well_o understand_v such_o word_n in_o the_o scripture_n as_o in_o their_o council_n for_o the_o word_n of_o the_o scripture_n seem_v to_o i_o to_o be_v very_o express_o against_o many_o thing_n that_o be_v hold_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o here_o i_o have_v be_v tell_v that_o this_o be_v not_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o my_o private_a sense_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v a_o dead_a letter_n till_o the_o church_n interpretation_n give_v it_o life_n and_o sense_n that_o private_a judgement_n be_v fallible_a and_o therefore_o not_o to_o be_v rely_v upon_o that_o the_o same_o place_n seem_v to_o be_v express_v to_o one_o man_n for_o this_o thing_n and_o to_o another_o man_n for_o that_o thing_n that_o so_o many_o private_a head_n as_o there_o be_v so_o many_o bible_n there_o will_v be_v that_o after_o all_o our_o assurance_n that_o we_o understand_v plain_a and_o express_v text_n of_o scripture_n there_o be_v no_o certainty_n to_o be_v have_v but_o by_o submit_v to_o authority_n and_o receive_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n not_o from_o the_o scripture_n but_o from_o the_o church_n well_o i_o submit_v to_o the_o church_n and_o ask_v where_o or_o by_o who_o she_o deliver_v her_o sense_n concern_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n ans_fw-fr by_o her_o voice_n in_o her_o general_n and_o approve_a council_n but_o where_o be_v that_o voice_n to_o be_v hear_v ans_fw-fr in_o the_o express_a word_n of_o those_o council_n i_o go_v therefore_o to_o those_o council_n god_n help_v they_o that_o can_v here_o indeed_o i_o find_v express_v word_n if_o a_o man_n can_v but_o tell_v how_o to_o come_v to_o the_o sense_n of_o they_o for_o i_o think_v myself_o very_o sure_o of_o the_o meaning_n of_o express_a word_n of_o scripture_n but_o it_o seem_v i_o be_v mistake_v then_o what_o assurance_n have_v i_o that_o i_o be_o not_o mistake_v now_o for_o express_v word_n be_v but_o as_o express_v word_n in_o the_o council_n as_o they_o be_v in_o the_o scripture_n and_o if_o my_o sense_n of_o such_o word_n in_o the_o scripture_n be_v but_o a_o private_a sense_n before_o my_o sense_n also_o of_o such_o word_n in_o the_o council_n be_v no_o more_o now_o and_o therefore_o if_o i_o must_v trust_v to_o my_o own_o private_a sense_n i_o shall_v be_v sore_o tempt_v to_o go_v back_o again_o and_o to_o make_v as_o good_a a_o shift_n as_o i_o can_v with_o my_o private_a sense_n and_o the_o scripture_n together_o rather_o than_o follow_v those_o who_o tell_v i_o my_o private_a sense_n be_v not_o to_o be_v trust_v and_o yet_o leave_v i_o to_o it_o at_o last_o for_o when_o all_o be_v do_v the_o church_n sense_n according_a to_o this_o man_n be_v a_o mere_a notion_n of_o a_o thing_n that_o be_v no_o where_o to_o be_v find_v for_o the_o several_a sense_n of_o her_o word_n in_o council_n be_v but_o the_o sentiment_n of_o private_a man_n which_o this_o man_n oppose_v to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n to_o save_v his_o church_n from_o two_o popery_n for_o instance_n if_o i_o go_v to_o cardinal_n capisucchi_fw-it and_z his_o party_n to_o ask_v they_o what_o the_o church_n sense_n be_v of_o that_o due_a honour_n and_o veneration_n that_o be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o holy_a image_n they_o tell_v i_o the_o very_a same_o that_o be_v give_v to_o the_o person_n represent_v by_o they_o but_o what_o be_o i_o the_o near_a for_o this_o be_v but_o the_o sentiment_n of_o private_a men._n i_o go_v to_o ask_v the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n and_o his_o party_n and_o they_o cry_v god_n forbid_v the_o church_n require_v no_o such_o thing_n but_o i_o conceive_v his_o sentiment_n be_v as_o private_a as_o the_o cardinal_n and_o so_o
and_o the_o curate_n in_o the_o right_n this_o at_o least_o be_v enough_o for_o the_o defender_n that_o there_o be_v two_o sort_n of_o popery_n among_o they_o as_o to_o this_o matter_n of_o adore_v the_o cross_n one_o that_o of_o the_o curate_n and_o the_o archbishop_n another_z that_o of_o imbert_n and_o the_o vindicator_n between_o both_o which_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n have_v by_o this_o unhappy_a accident_n be_v constrain_v to_o play_v fast_o and_o loose_a here_o therefore_o if_o i_o have_v the_o representer_n talon_n i_o may_v cry_v out_o where_o be_v the_o calumny_n where_o be_v the_o misrepresentation_n where_o be_v the_o falsehood_n in_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o two_o sort_n of_o popery_n when_o the_o matter_n of_o fact_n be_v so_o evident_a that_o process_n have_v be_v issue_v out_o by_o the_o old_a popery_n against_o the_o new_a in_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o archbishop_n against_o imbert_n but_o the_o vindicator_n say_v that_o the_o curate_n be_v in_o the_o wrong_n for_o cry_v out_o the_o wood_n the_o wood_n and_o whatever_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n himself_o say_v his_o exposition_n must_v say_v what_o the_o vindicator_n do_v but_o now_o poor_a imbert_n say_v the_o same_o and_o yet_o though_o they_o all_o agree_v in_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n such_o be_v the_o hard_a fate_n of_o some_o above_o other_o the_o bishop_n and_o his_o vindicator_n flourish_v and_o be_v applaud_v for_o say_v what_o imbert_n say_v but_o imbert_n suffer_v for_o say_v no_o other_o thing_n than_o what_o the_o bishop_n exposition_n say_v before_o he_o and_o his_o vindicator_n after_o he_o upon_o which_o no_o unbiased_a man_n can_v reflect_v but_o he_o must_v acknowledge_v not_o only_o that_o there_o be_v a_o new_a and_o a_o old_a popery_n among_o they_o but_o withal_o that_o the_o new_a one_o be_v set_v up_o for_o nothing_o but_o to_o decoy_n we_o into_o the_o old_a one_o for_o let_v the_o vindicator_n tell_v i_o why_o imbert_n have_v be_v so_o severe_o treat_v for_o say_v that_o the_o curate_n be_v in_o the_o wrong_n but_o that_o he_o seem_v to_o be_v in_o good_a earnest_n and_o in_o truth_n will_v not_o have_v the_o wood_n to_o be_v adore_v and_o if_o other_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o be_v yet_o approve_v what_o other_o reason_n can_v be_v give_v for_o the_o difference_n but_o that_o they_o be_v understand_v to_o be_v in_o jest_n as_o to_o the_o matter_n which_o they_o affirm_v and_o in_o earnest_n only_o as_o to_o the_o end_n they_o aim_v at_o which_o be_v in_o good_a time_n to_o make_v we_o adorer_n of_o the_o wood_n according_a to_o the_o strain_n of_o old_a and_o true_a popery_n the_o exposition_n be_v frame_v to_o catch_v protestant_n it_o be_v imbert_n mistake_n to_o think_v it_o design_v for_o the_o reformation_n of_o papist_n for_o which_o reason_n mounseur_fw-fr ranchin_n will_v be_v advise_v to_o have_v a_o care_n how_o he_o talk_v of_o the_o exposition_n be_v no_o less_o needful_a for_o the_o instruction_n of_o the_o catholic_n than_o of_o the_o reform_a the_o defender_n say_v that_o imbert_n case_n be_v enough_o to_o clear_v he_o from_o the_o charge_n of_o calumny_n and_o falsification_n in_o that_o account_n he_o give_v of_o their_o good-friday_n service_n and_o in_o translate_n those_o word_n ecce_fw-la lignum_fw-la crucis_fw-la venite_fw-la adoremus_fw-la behold_v the_o wood_n of_o the_o cross_n come_v let_v we_o adore_v it._n for_o say_v the_o defender_n not_o only_o the_o curate_n but_o the_o archbishop_n think_v there_o be_v no_o calumny_n in_o it_o and_o he_o will_v not_o be_v so_o uncharitable_a as_o to_o wish_v the_o vindicator_n the_o like_a conviction_n of_o it_o that_o imbert_n have_v meet_v with_o but_o since_o this_o man_n go_v on_o still_o to_o cry_v calumny_n and_o falsification_n i_o may_v without_o breach_n of_o charity_n wish_v mounseur_fw-fr imbert_n out_o of_o durance_n and_o the_o vindicator_n in_o his_o room_n who_o without_o question_n will_v get_v out_o again_o present_o the_o vindicator_n say_v that_o the_o false_a translation_n be_v so_o manifest_a that_o he_o need_v not_o make_v any_o more_o word_n of_o it_o i_o say_v if_o there_o be_v nothing_o to_o justify_v the_o defender_n translation_n but_o the_o antiphone_fw-la itself_o in_o its_o full_a length_n that_o be_v enough_o behold_v the_o wood_n of_o the_o cross_n upon_o which_o the_o saviour_n of_o the_o world_n do_v hang_v come_v let_v we_o adore_v adore_v what_o it_o say_v the_o defender_n he_o say_v the_o vindicator_n now_o in_o common_a sense_n the_o choir_n invite_v one_o another_o to_o adore_v that_o which_o the_o priest_n show_v they_o with_o a_o behold_v sure_o he_o that_o shall_v say_v behold_v a_o house_n by_o the_o wood-side_n come_v let_v we_o go_v in_o or_o behold_v a_o dinner_n upon_o the_o table_n come_v let_v we_o eat_v or_o behold_v virgil_n among_o the_o poet_n come_v let_v we_o read_v will_v take_v it_o ill_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o any_o thing_n but_o go_v into_o that_o house_n or_o eat_v of_o that_o dinner_n or_o read_v of_o that_o book_n but_o if_o indeed_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n in_o that_o service_n to_o oblige_v a_o man_n to_o depart_v from_o the_o common_a construction_n as_o to_o those_o word_n and_o to_o apply_v the_o adoration_n not_o to_o the_o wood_n which_o the_o people_n be_v call_v to_o behold_v but_o to_o he_o that_o suffer_v upon_o the_o cross_n who_o they_o can_v behold_v than_o the_o defender_n will_v be_v in_o a_o ill_a case_n but_o if_o the_o rubric_n upon_o this_o occasion_n do_v express_o make_v the_o wood_n the_o object_n of_o adoration_n than_o the_o vindicator_n be_v in_o a_o worse_a case_n who_o have_v both_o the_o natural_a construction_n of_o the_o word_n and_o the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o place_n against_o he_o once_o more_o therefore_o and_o but_o once_o the_o reader_n shall_v by_o some_o part_n of_o the_o rubric_n judge_v of_o the_o modesty_n of_o this_o man_n and_o the_o vindicator_n shall_v have_v the_o pleasure_n of_o imagine_v all_o the_o while_n what_o the_o reader_n must_v think_v of_o he_o afterward_o i._n e._n after_o thrice_o sing_v of_o the_o antiphone_fw-la and_o the_o prostration_n of_o all_o upon_o thrice_o show_v the_o cross_n the_o priest_n alone_o bear_v the_o cross_n to_o the_o place_n prepare_v for_o it_o before_o the_o altar_n and_o kneel_v he_o lay_v it_o there_o by_o and_o by_o put_v off_o his_o shoe_n he_o come_v to_o adore_v the_o cross_n thrice_o bend_v his_o knee_n before_o he_o kiss_v it_o after_o a_o while_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o altar_n and_o then_o other_o clerk_n and_o laic_n with_o thrice_o bend_a knee_n as_o be_v now_o say_v adore_v the_o cross_n parasc_n missale_n rom._n feria_n vi_o in_o parasc_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n while_o the_o adoration_n of_o thf_n cross_n be_v make_v the_o expostulation_n and_o other_o hymn_n be_v sing_v which_o follow_v either_o all_o or_o some_o of_o they_o as_o the_o great_a or_o lesser_a number_n of_o adorer_n require_v one_o of_o the_o antiphones_n sing_v in_o common_a be_v that_o which_o begin_v we_o adore_v thy_o cross_n o_o lord_n and_o to_o make_v all_o sure_a the_o rubric_n that_o close_v this_o ceremony_n and_o pass_v to_o other_o thing_n begin_v thus_o towards_o the_o end_n of_o the_o adoration_n of_o the_o cross_n the_o candle_n be_v light_v upon_o the_o altar_n etc._n etc._n yet_o say_v the_o vindicator_n let_v we_o adore_v it_o be_v a_o false_a translation_n nay_o it_o be_v so_o manifest_a that_o he_o need_v not_o make_v any_o more_o word_n of_o it_o that_o it_o be_v not_o false_a as_o to_o the_o sense_n be_v so_o manifest_a both_o by_o the_o antiphone_fw-la and_o the_o rubric_n nor_o as_o to_o the_o word_n by_o the_o use_n of_o our_o english_a which_o require_v the_o repetition_n of_o the_o thing_n by_o a_o pronoun_n more_o than_o the_o latin_a do_v this_o i_o say_v be_v so_o manifest_a that_o i_o will_v never_o make_v any_o more_o word_n about_o it_o with_o the_o vindicator_n 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construction_n be_v no_o false_a translator_n but_o a_o true_a one_o especial_o if_o that_o sentence_n be_v part_n of_o a_o work_n where_o the_o latin_a be_v every_o where_o else_o very_o good_a and_o that_o sense_n which_o the_o construction_n make_v agree_v with_o all_o that_o be_v in_o connexion_n and_o 1._o it_o agree_v very_o well_o with_o the_o mention_n of_o those_o many_o benefit_n which_o relic_n be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o mean_n of_o and_o 2._o it_o hold_v with_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o matter_n of_o this_o period_n and_o that_o of_o the_o forego_v one_o much_o better_a than_o the_o vindicator_n sense_n do_v for_o he_o will_v have_v the_o help_v of_o the_o saint_n to_o be_v mention_v here_o but_o let_v he_o observe_v that_o this_o be_v abundant_o take_v care_n for_o in_o the_o provision_n that_o go_v immediate_o before_o and_o therefore_o if_o it_o be_v indifferent_a as_o it_o be_v not_o which_o way_n the_o construction_n shall_v be_v carry_v according_a to_o the_o 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deliver_v as_o a_o necessary_a practice_n 6._o pag._n 6._o by_o she_o universal_o practise_v such_o thing_n as_o necessary_a i_o ask_v therefore_o 1._o do_v not_o the_o church_n intend_v her_o public_a office_n for_o rule_n of_o universal_a practice_n and_o be_v they_o not_o therefore_o one_o mean_n by_o which_o we_o be_v to_o judge_v of_o such_o practice_n 2._o whether_o those_o thing_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o be_v do_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o her_o public_a office_n require_v 3._o whether_o she_o do_v not_o practise_v those_o thing_n as_o necessary_a which_o she_o practise_v in_o conformity_n to_o her_o own_o public_a office_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v indifferent_a for_o the_o child_n of_o the_o church_n to_o observe_v her_o rule_n or_o to_o refuse_v to_o observe_v they_o the_o vindicator_n understand_v himself_o to_o be_v liable_a to_o these_o question_n and_o therefore_o when_o he_o come_v to_o apply_v this_o mean_n of_o know_v the_o church_n sense_n in_o necessary_a practice_n he_o add_v a_o new_a limitation_n unless_o say_v he_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o what_o you_o term_v old_a popery_n be_v deliver_v as_o a_o practice_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n all_o you_o say_v will_v avail_v you_o nothing_o for_o the_o church_n be_v to_o answer_v for_o nothing_o which_o she_o require_v not_o as_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o though_o she_o oblige_v all_o her_o child_n to_o worship_v the_o wood_n on_o good-friday_n and_o condemn_v those_o that_o refuse_v as_o schismatic_n as_o imberâ—_n know_v to_o his_o cost_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o the_o church_n sense_n that_o they_o shall_v do_v so_o because_o the_o rubric_n do_v not_o add_v that_o this_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n so_o that_o if_o the_o church_n have_v command_v we_o to_o worship_n moloch_n that_o have_v not_o be_v popery_n or_o the_o church_n sense_n unless_o she_o have_v insert_v that_o reason_n for_o her_o command_n that_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o 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especial_o against_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n who_o impute_v to_o the_o pagan_a religion_n those_o abuse_n which_o be_v public_o commit_v among_o they_o and_o laugh_v at_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o philosopher_n that_o will_v put_v a_o good_a sense_n upon_o their_o abominable_a worship_n the_o vindicator_n say_v he_o admit_v the_o parallel_n but_o he_o be_v certain_a that_o it_o will_v never_o make_v any_o thing_n for_o we_o till_o we_o can_v show_v that_o the_o church_n do_v or_o do_v make_v use_n of_o rack_n and_o gibbet_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o torture_n to_o oblige_v people_n to_o believe_v and_o practice_v those_o thing_n which_o we_o call_v old_a popery_n as_o the_o heathen_n do_v to_o make_v they_o worship_v idol_n that_o be_v to_o say_v he_o do_v not_o admit_v the_o parallel_n though_o he_o say_v he_o do_v admit_v it_o for_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n be_v bring_v in_o charge_v paganism_n with_o a_o barbarous_a and_o idolatrous_a worship_n upon_o the_o account_n of_o 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word_n it_o have_v have_v and_o to_o this_o day_n it_o have_v a_o inquisition_n to_o uphold_v it_o as_o for_o what_o he_o say_v that_o the_o defender_n must_v show_v 7._o pag._n 7._o that_o the_o church_n allow_v such_o wicked_a practice_n as_o correspond_v to_o his_o author_n example_n of_o kill_v and_o rob_v and_o be_v as_o dangerous_a to_o the_o church_n as_o those_o be_v to_o a_o state._n i_o reply_v that_o the_o question_n be_v not_o here_o how_o dangerous_a those_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n be_v which_o we_o call_v old_a popery_n but_o whether_o indeed_o they_o be_v to_o be_v charge_v upon_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o similitude_n be_v bring_v to_o show_v that_o it_o be_v to_o as_o little_a purpose_n to_o defend_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n against_o our_o exception_n by_o pretend_v that_o no_o decision_n of_o council_n can_v be_v produce_v require_v that_o service_n and_o worship_n which_o be_v universal_o give_v to_o saint_n and_o image_n as_o to_o acquit_v a_o city_n where_o they_o rob_v and_o kill_v without_o contradiction_n by_o say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o law_n command_v man_n to_o rob_v and_o murder_v one_o another_o as_o for_o the_o danger_n of_o those_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n which_o we_o call_v old_a popery_n it_o be_v another_o question_n in_o which_o i_o be_o pretty_a confident_a that_o good_a man_n the_o representer_n be_v bind_v to_o appear_v he_o and_o the_o vindicator_n therefore_o shall_v agree_v about_o it_o at_o their_o leisure_n i_o shall_v do_v my_o part_n to_o bring_v they_o fair_o together_o and_o so_o let_v they_o compound_v the_o matter_n betwixt_o they_o as_o well_o as_o they_o can_v the_o vindicator_n feel_v himself_o bear_v down_o with_o those_o clear_a testimony_n of_o a_o old_a popery_n which_o the_o defender_n ply_v he_o with_o and_o by_o what_o appear_v now_o he_o struggle_v
have_v a_o strong_a fancy_n that_o the_o good_a advice_n be_v the_o representer'_v own_o but_o the_o vindicator_n good_a word_n of_o it_o will_v not_o i_o guess_v make_v amends_o for_o undo_v the_o representer_n in_o his_o main_a chance_n 7._o for_o that_o parallel_n which_o the_o defender_n require_v to_o the_o account_n of_o thing_n in_o q._n elizabeth_n time_n for_o which_o dr._n heylin_n be_v quote_v this_o man_n say_v no_o more_o than_o to_o this_o purpose_n that_o if_o it_o be_v not_o for_o some_o hotheaded_a spirit_n these_o brangle_v about_o religion_n may_v be_v end_v which_o be_v as_o much_o as_o to_o say_v that_o he_o insinuate_v something_o which_o his_o superior_n have_v forbid_v he_o to_o own_o it_o seem_v that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v insinuate_v but_o not_o speak_v plain_o but_o because_o he_o forbear_v i_o shall_v do_v so_o too_o and_o refer_v myself_o to_o the_o world_n if_o he_o have_v not_o now_o make_v nonsense_n of_o the_o application_n of_o heylin_n account_n 8._o as_o to_o his_o be_v a_o spy_n upon_o the_o defender_n his_o vindication_n of_o himself_o be_v the_o very_a masterpiece_n of_o his_o answer_n for_o no_o man_n that_o close_o attend_v to_o his_o word_n can_v tell_v whether_o he_o deny_v or_o confess_v it_o though_o to_o a_o superficial_a reader_n he_o seem_v to_o deny_v it_o his_o word_n be_v elaborate_o put_v together_o and_o though_o i_o be_o in_o very_o great_a haste_n yet_o i_o must_v needs_o let_v the_o reader_n see_v they_o if_o i_o reflect_v upon_o your_o preach_n it_o be_v from_o mere_a report_n but_o he_o may_v be_v at_o church_n when_o he_o do_v not_o reflect_v upon_o the_o defender_n preach_v for_o i_o assure_v you_o sir_n what_o you_o be_v tell_v of_o my_o be_v sometime_o a_o part_n of_o your_o auditory_a be_v like_o many_o other_o story_n which_o you_o abound_v with_o in_o all_o your_o write_n i_o suppose_v too_o from_o hear-say_n but_o if_o the_o defender_n be_v not_o tell_v of_o it_o but_o see_v he_o at_o church_n than_o this_o come_v not_o within_o the_o case_n because_o he_o have_v it_o not_o then_o from_o hear-say_n but_o from_o eyesight_n again_o if_o the_o defender_n be_v tell_v of_o it_o than_o indeed_o he_o have_v it_o from_o hear-say_n but_o he_o may_v hear_v the_o truth_n for_o all_o that_o the_o vindicator_n be_v afraid_a of_o proof_n and_o i_o advise_v he_o to_o be_v so_o still_o that_o which_o follow_v be_v just_a such_o another_o pleasant_a strain_n it_o concern_v the_o sunday_n night_n conference_n but_o the_o reader_n shall_v go_v for_o that_o himself_o as_o he_o like_v the_o other_o but_o whereas_o upon_o this_o occasion_n of_o the_o defender_n preach_v he_o bid_v he_o ask_v his_o conscience_n whether_o they_o who_o acknowledge_v only_o one_o god_n who_o they_o must_v adore_v can_v be_v guilty_a of_o such_o a_o horrid_a crime_n as_o to_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o saint_n i_o have_v ask_v the_o defender_n about_o it_o who_o have_v also_o ask_v his_o conscience_n and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o his_o conscience_n he_o say_v that_o they_o may_v be_v guilty_a of_o that_o horrid_a crime_n and_o more_o than_o that_o he_o intend_v to_o give_v these_o man_n such_o reason_n for_o his_o conclusion_n as_o he_o be_v in_o his_o conscience_n persuade_v can_v be_v fair_o answer_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o will_v give_v the_o vindicator_n a_o question_n for_o his_o question_n and_o desire_v he_o to_o put_v it_o to_o his_o own_o conscience_n whether_o a_o woman_n who_o acknowledge_v only_o one_o husband_n to_o who_o she_o must_v pay_v conjugal_a duty_n can_v be_v guil-of_a such_o a_o horrid_a crime_n as_o to_o give_v her_o husband_n bed_n to_o another_o and_o then_o let_v he_o use_v a_o little_a conscience_n in_o the_o application_n 9_o for_o what_o next_o follow_v that_o he_o will_v not_o be_v think_v to_o have_v abuse_v the_o defender_n auditory_a that_o the_o defender_n have_v better_o give_v up_o the_o cause_n that_o he_o give_v ill_a language_n and_o justify_v it_o that_o he_o believe_v every_o idle_a report_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n 12._o pag._n 11_o 12._o rather_o than_o his_o vindication_n and_o his_o explain_v of_o the_o word_n reverie_n this_o shall_v all_o pass_v off_o quiet_o 10._o and_o so_o shall_v his_o next_o reflection_n too_o but_o that_o he_o be_v so_o warm_a upon_o it_o that_o he_o must_v not_o be_v neglect_v the_o defender_n have_v affirm_v those_o expression_n of_o st._n german_n st._n anselm_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o they_o concern_v the_o virgin_n which_o crasset_fw-la have_v transcribe_v to_o be_v horrid_a blasphemy_n this_o the_o vindicator_n can_v not_o endure_v the_o defender_n therefore_o transcribe_v they_o out_o of_o crasset_fw-la and_o leave_v the_o reader_n to_o judge_v what_o now_o say_v the_o vindicator_n why_o true_o he_o know_v not_o well_o what_o to_o say_v to_o confess_v plain_o that_o they_o be_v blasphemy_n will_v be_v to_o vindicate_v the_o defender_n to_o deny_v it_o plain_o be_v yet_o a_o little_a too_o soon_o for_o though_o new_a popery_n be_v draw_v on_o it_o have_v not_o yet_o breathe_v its_o last_o he_o take_v a_o middle_a course_n and_o thus_o inform_v the_o defender_n 12._o pag._n 12._o have_v you_o only_o say_v that_o father_n crasset_fw-la have_v collect_v such_o passage_n from_o those_o great_a saint_n as_o if_o take_v in_o that_o strict_a and_o dogmatical_a sense_n he_o bring_v they_o for_o may_v be_v call_v blasphemy_n that_o father_n must_v only_o have_v answer_v for_o they_o this_o man_n have_v a_o notable_a gift_n of_o speak_v and_o say_v nothing_o which_o do_v he_o great_a service_n at_o a_o pinch_n he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o if_o those_o passage_n be_v take_v in_o that_o strict_a and_o dogmatical_a sense_n for_o which_o crasset_fw-la bring_v they_o than_o they_o may_v be_v call_v blasphemy_n for_o this_o have_v be_v to_o bring_v father_n crasset_fw-la upon_o his_o back_n with_o all_o those_o great_a saint_n which_o crasset_fw-la have_v already_o raise_v up_o against_o widenfelt_n and_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o if_o the_o defender_n have_v say_v what_o he_o suppose_v for_o he_o that_o father_n crasset_fw-la can_v have_v bring_v himself_o off_o no_o he_o answer_v more_o wary_o that_o that_o father_n must_v only_o have_v answer_v for_o they_o which_o it_o may_v be_v he_o can_v and_o it_o may_v be_v he_o can_v not_o now_o here_o he_o shall_v have_v end_v for_o crasset_fw-la may_v take_v himself_o to_o be_v sacrifice_v in_o what_o follow_v but_o to_o lay_v they_o to_o those_o holy_a saint_n charge_n to_o call_v they_o superstitious_a man_n their_o expression_n horrid_a blasphemy_n be_v what_o true_o pious_a ear_n can_v hear_v without_o indignation_n for_o father_n crasset_fw-la be_v in_o a_o ill_a case_n if_o to_o lay_v the_o holy_a saint_n expression_n in_o crasset_n sense_n to_o the_o charge_n of_o the_o holy_a saint_n be_v what_o true_o pious_a ear_n can_v hear_v without_o indignation_n but_o i_o beg_v the_o vindicator_n pardon_n for_o now_o i_o see_v how_o crasset_fw-la may_v be_v bring_v off_o again_o or_o rather_o the_o vindicator_n for_o perhaps_o that_o which_o pious_a ear_n can_v hear_v be_v not_o every_o particular_a by_o itself_o but_o altogether_o i._n e._n pious_a ear_n may_v hear_v those_o passage_n lay_v to_o the_o charge_n of_o the_o saint_n even_o in_o crasset_n sense_n but_o that_o therefore_o those_o saint_n shall_v be_v call_v superstitious_a man_n and_o their_o expression_n horrid_a blasphemy_n as_o they_o be_v not_o by_o crasset_fw-la but_o by_o the_o defender_n this_o be_v what_o true_o pious_a ear_n can_v hear_v without_o indignation_n now_o after_o all_o this_o dexterity_n he_o have_v not_o offer_v to_o show_v that_o those_o passage_n which_o the_o defender_n produce_v be_v not_o horrid_a blasphemy_n or_o that_o they_o be_v capable_a of_o a_o good_a sense_n if_o the_o reader_n have_v forget_v they_o he_o may_v go_v to_o the_o defender_n for_o they_o p._n 89_o 90_o etc._n etc._n and_o then_o he_o will_v be_v satisfy_v that_o all_o this_o shuffle_n come_v to_o no_o more_o than_o this_o that_o the_o vindicator_n can_v bear_v any_o thing_n that_o reflect_v dishononourable_o upon_o his_o great_a and_o holy_a saint_n but_o his_o pious_a ear_n can_v hear_v expression_n from_o they_o that_o do_v blasphemous_o reflect_v upon_o almighty_a god_n without_o any_o indignation_n at_o all_o 11._o the_o defender_n produce_v those_o prayer_n and_o ceremony_n in_o the_o consecration_n of_o a_o cross_n which_o to_o he_o seem_v to_o be_v magical_a incantation_n rather_o than_o prayer_n the_o vindicator_n to_o be_v even_o with_o he_o say_z that_o we_o use_v the_o like_a prayer_n and_o ceremony_n in_o the_o consecration_n of_o church_n and_o chapel_n now_o if_o we_o do_v than_o i_o for_o my_o part_n will_v say_v