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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	call_v	church_n	visible_a	1,949	5	9.0907	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A63200	A tryall of the nevv-church vvay in New-England and in old ... by that learned and godly minister of Christ, John Ball of Whitmore ; penned a little before his death and sent over to the New England ministers, anno 1637, as a reply to an answer of theirs in justification of the said positions ... ; now published ... by William Rathband and Simeon Ash.	Ball, John, 1585-1640.; Rathband, William, d. 1695.; Ashe, Simeon, d. 1662. Letter of many ministers in old England requesting the judgement of their reverend bretheren in New England.	1644 (1644)	Wing T2229; ESTC R20975	106,044	100

acceptation of the word is not unusuall in Scripture As God hath set some in the Church His bodies sake which is the Church The Church viz. whereof Paul was made a Minister and whereunto the rest of the Apostles were ordained which was the Catholike visible Church the society of men professing the faith of Christ throughout the world divided into many particular Churches whereof some are pure others impure some more others lesse sound Hereunto it may be added that every multitude and society of believers are indefinitely called the Church I persecuted the Church of God The house of God which is the Church of the living God In which sense all the Churches in the world may truly be called one And thus the Apostle Peter writing to many dispersed Churches who could not assemble in one place nor be fed by one Shepherd speaketh of them singularly as one flock Feed the flock of God which is among you But that flock are the strangers dispersed through Pontus Galatia Asia Cappadocia and Bythinia which could not possibly joine together in the Ordinances of Worship or make one distinct congregated assembly And if the Catholike Militant Church be one Society the Seals that are given as a prerogative to the Church are given unto it and the true Members of the Catholike Church have right and title to them in due order though they be not admitted into the Church fellowship you speak of For as the flock or society is one so is the Ministery Faith Covenant and Sacraments which are given as a communion prerogative unto the whole Church and not appropriated to this or that part or member as separated from the whole which is further evidenced hereby that sometime it hath and too often it may fall out that a Christian may be a true member of the universall visible Church i. e. he may hold professe and maintain that holy Catholike Faith pure and undefiled without which no man can be saved who for the present is no actuall member of any particular or visible society in Church order As for example a man may be cut off by Excommunication from all commerce with the present visible Church wherein hee was bred and born when hee is not cut off from the Catholike Orthodox all Church Hee may be deprived of participation of the Ordinance in every particular society when his right and title to them is much better then these who have most injuriously cast him out or debarred him of the means of salvation The communion of Saints whether visible or invisible is the effect and property of the Church Catholike and agreeth to the severall parts and members thereof as they be members of that body under the head and if particular Churches have communion together it must of necessity be that they bee parts and members of the whole body which is one 4. Though there be no universall congregation or assembly nor can be imagined yet there are and have beene many visible assemblies or societies true Churches of Christ to whom the Prerogative of the Seals is given which have not beene united and knit together in Church-order into one congregationall body or society For every society in covenant with God is the true Church of God for what is it to be the flock people or sheepe of God but to be the Church of God And where there is a Covenant there is the people of God They that are of the faith of Abraham are the children and seed of Abraham and within the Covenant of Abraham though but two or three and so of the same Church with him by that covenant The communication on and accepting of the tables of covenant is an undoubted token of a people in convenant or confederate but every society professing the true and entire faith joyning in prayer and thankesgiving receiving the truth of God to dwell among them and in some measure conforming themselves to the obedience of Gods Commandements is in covenant with God It is simply necessary to the being of a Church that it be laid upon Christ the foundation which being done the remaining of what is forbidden or the want of what is commanded cannot put the society from the title or right of a Church For Christ is the foundation and head corner stone of the Church and a people comming unto Christ united unto him built upon him having communion with him and growing up in him are the true Church of God and if the seals be annexed to the covenant by God himselfe as we cannot deny a people in covenant to be the Church so we must not deny their right and title to the Sacraments If therefore the meaning of the proposition be that the seales be given to the Church that is to true and sound Christians and people in covenant with God as a priviledge whether in ordinary or extraordinary dispensation we accept it as good and sound but it makes against your judgement and practice in keeping away such as have right and title to the ordinances If you meane the seales are given to the Church that is onely to set members of some particular society combined by covenant as it is among you we cannot receive it because it implieth a distinction not taught in Scripture and crosse to your selves And for the thing it selfe the Scripture hath nothing but many things against it as hath beene shewed 5 If it be granted that the seales are the prerogative of a particular visible Church known and approved Christians among us and their seed are members of true and visible Churches and so to be esteemed among you before they be entred into Church membership as you call it For every society professing the intire and true faith and joyning together in the right use of the Sacraments in matters substantiall is the true Church of God and every visible beleever receiving the word and professing the true intire faith admitted to the right and lawfull participation of the Sacraments is a visible member of the true Church if he have neither renounced that society nor deserved justly to be cast out by excommunication or Church censure For the intire profession of the truth the dwelling of the truth among men the right use of the Sacraments which is ever joyned with truth of Doctrine and to be esteemed by it is proper to them that be in covenant with God And they that truly partake of the Seales must needes be of a Church for the seales are not without but within the Church an ordinance given unto it and if they be true members of the true Churches of Jesus Christ other Churches are bound to hold communion with them in the ordinance of worship as divine providence shall minister occasion In answer to the ninth position you say the members of other Churches well known and approved by vertue of communion with Churches doe mutually and with

into all Churches and every particular Church where he cometh he hath all the priviledges of a baptised person in respect of his baptisme and is so to be esteemed by them Now the priviledge of a baptised person who is able to examine himself and walketh in the truth is to be admitted to the Lords Supper All circumcised persons had right thereby to eat the Passeover in any societie in the place which God should chuse to put his Name there Exod. 12. 4. 47. Deut. 16. 1 2. So all baptised persons have true and intire right to the Lords Supper in everie true Church where God hath set his Name Thirdly there is not the same reason of every Church priviledge for one may have right to some who is not to meddle with others The members of one society may hear the Word joyne in Prayer and receive the Sacraments in another when they are not to meddle in the election and ordination of their teachers The Ministers of the Gospel may preach the Word and administer the Sacraments in another congregation and hereto he needs no other calling but that God offers an opportunitie there is much need of his help and he is intreated or hath leave from them in place or office but he is not to admit members into the societie or cast them out that be admitted And if the Pastor of one Church shall preach or administer the Sacraments in another contrary to the liking and approbation of the Society and Governours though the act be irregular it was never esteemed a nullitie but if he shall presume to excommunicate the members of another societie without the consent or the Church and approbation of Pastors and Teachers under whose charge and jurisdiction they live it hath been judged a meer nullity Therefore the proposition is not so evident as to be taken without proofe that they have no power to admit a beleever into communion in any Church priviledge who have no power to excommunicate Fourthly that visible beleevers baptised into a true Church professing the true faith and walking in holy obedience and godly conversation that they and their seed should be judged such as are without in the Aposles sense because they be not externally joyned as set members to some particular congregation in Church-Covenant is affirmed not proved 1. It hath and may fall out many times through the ignorance rashnesse or pride of a prevailing faction in the Church that the true members of the Catholique Church and the best members of the orthodox visible flock or congregation of Christ may be no members of any distinct visible societie And shall their posteritie be esteemed Aliens and Strangers from the Covenant and debarred from the Sacraments because their parents are unjustly seperated from the inheritance of the Lord Surely as parents unjustly excommunicated do continue still not onely true members of the invisible body but visible members of the flock of Christ so the right of Baptisme doth belong to the Infants of such parents though not actuall and constant members of this or that present assembly in Church order 2. If they be without because no members of a politike bodie or spirituall fellowship then all members which are of one societie are without to another For they that be not of the bodie are not capable of Church censures or subject to the authoritie one of another And so not being under the judgement of that particular Church to it they are without whereas in ancient and moderne times distinct Societies did communicate together admit and receive each other as brethren to testifie their fellowship in the faith If the reason whereupon the Apostle saith the Church of Corinth was not to judge them that were without was because they were not within the Church of Corinth and so not under their censure or judgement this holds true of them that be of another society admitted to the Sacrament as well as of such as be no set members desiring to be received to the Lords Supper 3. The fornicators of this world do they not explaine whom the Apostle pointeth unto by the title of being without ver 10. 11. such as had not received the covenant of grace 4. Church order is necessarie we denie not but this order that a man should be a constant and set member of a particular societie by covenant to make him a true member of the visible Church or to give him title or interest to the publick order this is not taught of God 5. Paul divides all men into two ranks the first and greater without the last and lesser within but that beleevers who have received the holy Ghost and have been baptised into Jesus Christ that they and their children should be reckoned among them that are without that we read not in this nor any other Scripture but in phrase of Scripture hereticks themselves are within the Church 6. The beleevers not yet gathered as the godly learned think into a certain distinct body are called beleevers brethren disciples but that they should be comprehended under them that are without it hath not been beleeved in the Church 7. Without faith the Apostle whether alluding to this place or not let others judge are dogs inchanters whoremongers not such as are called faithfull and holy walking in integritie beleeving in and professing Jesus Christ to be their Saviour 8. They that are without in the Apostles sense are Aliens from the Common-wealth of Israel strangers from the covenant of promise having no hope and without God in the world but we hope you will not passe such rash and unadvised censure upon your brethren who be not gathered into your societie as set members 9. Let the interpretation stand and he is without not onely who is no set member of some congregationall Assembly but he that is not subject to the censure of the community of that particular combination few or many with or without Officers And so all the reformed Churches in the world who ascribe the power of the keyes to the Presbitry or Classes and not to the community and some amongst your selves if not the most shall be without also And therefore we cannot think approved Christians desiring to be received unto the Sacrament either to be without or uncapable of Church censures for the time being if they should offend though not set members of any particular congregation for desiring baptisme for their children or themselves to be admitted to the Lords Supper for the time they put themselves under the ordinance of Jesus Christ there And as they are members for the time so they might be proceeded against according to the rule prescribed by our Saviour as they would proceed with an offending member 10. If upon just and good reason a passage of Scripture can be cleared to prove that for which it was never alledged by any writer we are not to except against any truth of God because it wanteth mans testimonie Onely if we desire

credit in such cases our reasons must be weightie and convincing But for your exposition of this text of Scripture as yet we have not observed one substantiall ground or approved author to be alledged Doctor Ames shewing the necessitie of Christians joyning themselves to some particular Church giveth this reason Quoniam alias fieri non potest quum conturbentur signa illa quibus fideles ab infidelibus discerni possunt 1. Cor. 5. 12. But herein Dr. Ames manifestly sheweth that by them that are without heathens and unbeleevers must be understood and not beleevers and godly men though of no particular setled societie for the time for thus we conceive he argueth The signes and evidences whereby the faithfull are to be discerned from unbeleevers must not be confounded but unlesse Christians make themselves actuall members of a Societie or Church the signes whereby the faithfull are discerned from unbeleevers will be obscured and darkned And if this be his reason how can that text of Scripture be alledged for confirmation unlesse by men without Infidels be understood Again Doctor Ames in the same book lib. 4. ca. 27. speaking of Infants to be received it is required he saith that they be in the covenant of grace in respect of outward profession and estimation in respect of their parents and that there is hope they shall be instructed and brought up in the same covenant 2. That Baptisme doth most properly belong to those infants whose parents at least one of them is in the Church and not without because baptisme is a signe and seale of the covenant of grace 3. That children that are cast forth are in charitie to be esteemed the children of Christian parents when there is no just cause of presuming the contrary that in admitting unto baptisme a difference must be put betweene the Infants of those who in some sort belong to the Church but openly break the covenant of God and the children of others 1. Because a distinction must be observed in holy things betweene the cleane and uncleane seeing else the ordinance of God cannot be preserved from all pollution To say nothing of that which he addeth touching the baptisme of Infants borne in fornication excommunication and Papists which is more then sufficient to cleare his meaning in the former passage To this may be added that he holdeth it not necessarie that Christians should gather themselves into a particular society but as opportunitie and occasion should offer it self So that it was never his mind to censure them who be not gathered into Church-Covenant because they want means or opportunitie as men without in the Apostles sense His judgement is further manifested in his second Manuduction pa. 33. So many parish Assemblies of England saith he as have any competent number of good Christians in them united to worship God ordinarily in one Societie so many have the essence and integrall forme of a visible Church and all they have intire right to Christ and to all the meanes of injoying him how ever they are defective in the puritie of their combination and in the compleat free exercising of their power whereupon a reverend Elder now among you draws this conclusion Ergo to dischurch them wholly and to separate from them as no Churches of Christ or to denie baptisme to the Infants of their known members is not warrantable by any rule of Scripture that I know nor justified by any assertion or practise Answ 5. Consideration VVE may adde hereunto for a fifth Consideration the evill and pernicious consequences of extending communion in Church priviledges beyond the bounds of Church fellowship for thus 1. The extraordinarie office of the Apostles and the ordinarie office of Pastors and Teachers will be much confounded if the latter be as illimited as the former in the execution of their office beyond the bounds of their own particular Churches 2. The distinction of Church assemblies from the confused multitude is abroagated if without membership in a particular Church the parents may communicate with the Churches in the Lords Supper and their seed in baptisme 3. The Church shall indanger the profaning of the seals and want one speciall meanes whereby the grace and pietie of men may be discerned and made known for if without respect to their Church estate men of approved pietie as you say are to be admitted to fellowship in the seales how shall their pietie be approved to the Church not by their own report of themselves alone without attestation of such as are approved by the Church and how can such beare witnesse to their approved pietie who against light refuse to professe subjection to the Gospel of Christ by orderly joyning themselves in fellowship with some approved Church of Christ as members thereof when they have opportunitie thereunto seeing such fellowship is an action of pietie required of all beleevers in the second Commandment and true pietie frameth mens spirits to have respect to all Gods Commandments And we have had much experience of it that men of approved pietie in the judgement of some have been found too light not onely in the judgement of others but even of their own consciences when they have come to triall in offering themselves to be members of Churches with such a blessing hath God followed this order of taking hold of Church-Covenant by publick profession of faith and repentance before men be admitted to the seales but this meanes of discoverie of mens pietie and sinceritie would be utterly lost if men should be admitted unto the Lords table without entring in Church-fellowship Reply IF it be repugnant to Divine Institution to admit of approved Christians lawfully baptized walking in the faith members of the visible Churches and partakers of Church priviledges among us to the Lords Supper or their children to baptisme because they be not entred into Church fellowship according to your order then it is unlawfull though no such evill consequences are to be feared But if by accident some abuse should fall out the evill is to be prevented by all lawfull meanes but the faithfull are not utterly to be debarred of the order of God whereto they have right and title by his free grant and gracious invitation And no question but the seales of the Covenant may be profaned many times when it is not in the power of the dispensers to put back or expell such as profane them If the Congregation shall admit of or tolerate an unworthy member the Churches priviledges are profaned and yet we conceive you will say the Pastor is not faulty in receiving him when the Church doth tolerate unworthily if he do what pertaineth to his office to keep the holy things of God from contempt But in the case propounded there is no feare or danger of such consequences necessarie to follow for the question is not of all sorts at randame but of Christians professing the faith intirely lawfully baptised known and approved to the consciences of

formes is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of God such also as come over occasionally who withdraw themselvs from the Sacraments in the congregation doe it on this pretence that a stinted Liturgie is a humane invention And if we examine the reasons brought against stinted formes and Liturgies we shall finde them to strike at all formes and Liturgies though devised by men of the same age and congregation and to be used but now and then or but once on set purpose and that either in publike or in private as elsewhere we may have occasion to shew You say it is evident many Preachers constantly use a set forme of Prayer of their own making before their Sermons with whom the people refuse not to joyne And you know we doubt not that such set formes are disliked also And if the grounds be examined in our understanding they make as much against the one as the other View but the reasons why you admit not a stinted Liturgie and forme of prayer and see whether the two last will not in the same terms directly conclude gainst both But what ever is to be thought herein or whether mens practises agree with their opinions we now dispute not This is plaine and manifest that mens opinions are to be judged by their expresse words and reasons not by their practises The Brownists as they are commonly called can separate from no stinted Liturgie amongst us but that which is in use and for ought we know they may joyne with their owne Pastors though they oft use the same forme of prayer in whole or in part in thanksgiving before meat or in prayer before Sermon or the like And yet their opinion is that all stinted Liturgies and set Formes of prayer be unlawfull humane inventions forbidden by the second Commandement But if any thing had beene left doubtfull in the Letter that it might be strained to another sence either because we were short in expression or many of you not informed in the passages which gave occasion to the question it is well knowne what the words meane in ordinary construction And we doubt not but many brethren among you might and could fully informe you of our meaning that there need no such straining to find it out That which followeth in your answer to the position as you interpret it wee passe over because it is not to the matter intended And wee are as unwilling to trouble you with the affaires of other Churches taking you from your owne weightie occasions as you are unwilling to be interrupted Onely in regard of promise and because plaine dealing serves to maintaine love we thinke good to advertise you these few things 1 That your reasons why you accept not of a stinted Lyturgie be ambiguously propounded for sometimes you plead onely for your libertie herein and that a stinted forme is not necessary and sometime you speake so as they that looke at Stinted Lyturgies as Images forbidden in the second Commandement will easily draw your words to their meaning 2 The reasons you bring against a set forme of prayer or Liturgie doe hold as strong against a set forme of Catechisme confession and profession of faith blessing baptizing and singing of Psalmes 3 Wee have not called upon you at this time to witnesse for or against the corruptions in the Communion-Booke This you fall upon by straining the sense of our demands contrary to the true meaning thereof The reasons which you bring against it we cannot approve them all The exceptions which have bin taken both from the matter and manner thereof we know But to esteeme the whole for some corruptions found therein a monument of Idolatry that we have not learned The Argument in the abridgement which is used against conformity to the Ceremonies did not in their judgement who were authors of the Booke hold against the Lyturgie of which opinion we are also 4 If these reasons be intended onely to shew why you receive not our forme of administration it is that which we are perswaded you know we never required of you If to disallow the use of the Booke amongst us altogether in things lawfull good and pertinent they will not hold weight 5 You are generally as you say loath to meddle with the affaires of other Churches unlesse you have been necessarily called thereunto But when some upon the request as we suppose of private friends and others out of their zeale and forwardnesse have laboured to draw many to separation from the Sacrament because ministred in a stinted Lyturgie wee cannot apprehend any just ground of this apologie The Rent is wide and some brethren had their hands deepe therein which made us at this present to crave your judgements and the reasons thereof to make up the breach 6 I. D. objecteth to Master P. that his manner of preaching was disorderly in carrying that matter he speakes of to the Classes before he had declared to the Church the equity of his refusing the Ministers desired by the Scriptures And may not we with like reason object that this manner of proceeding is disorderly in seeking to draw men to Separation because of stinted Liturgie before you had shewed to us or other brethren whom it may concerne by Scripture or reasons drawne from thence that a stinted Liturgie was unlawfull but of this wee may intreat more fully elsewhere II. POSITION That it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer or receive the Sacraments where a stinted Liturgie is used or as we conceive your meaning to be in this as in the former question viz. where and when that stinted Liturgie is used Answer IT seemeth by this your letter the ground of this Position hath beene the separation of divers from your assemblies because of a stinted Liturgie and we are not ignorant of the rigid separation of divers people who withdraw themselves from an able faithfull ministry as no ministry of Christ and from their godly congregations as no Churches of Christ because of some corruptions from which through want of light not love of the truth they are not throughly cleansed Against which practise we have ever witnessed As for our Judgement concerning the Position it selfe we would promise two things First concerning the persons reading this Liturgie which may be either an ungodly or unable Minister or an able and a godly Secondly concerning the Liturgie it selfe which may be either of the whole or some select prayers which may be conceived to be the least offensive Now if the question be of joyning in prayer with and when that whole Liturgie is used or where that which is used is read by an unable and ungodly Minister we then see not how it can be lawfull to joyne in prayer in such cases For 1 The prayers of the Minister are not his private prayers but the publike prayers of the whole assembly whose mouth he is to God And when the prayers offered up by the Minister as a living holy and acceptable