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A73011 Looke beyond Luther: or An ansvvere to that question, so often and so insultingly proposed by our aduersaries, asking vs; where this our religion was before Luthers time? VVhereto are added sound props to beare vp honest-hearted Protestants, that they fall not from their sauing-faith. By Richard Bernard, of Batcombe in Sommersetshire. Bernard, Richard, 1568-1641. 1623 (1623) STC 1956.3; ESTC S123041 43,757 64

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to true Councels Can an ordinarie man then iudge of these things And if he cannot let him not be deceiued by pretence of them II. Touching the ancient Fathers this they must know that they are found to be of differing opinions and had contentions among themselues that they held not their owne iudgements infallible nor submitted to one another otherwise then men godly and learned doe now but onely as by good reason and authoritie they were ouercome that they haue erred and this is acknowledged by most learned men on both sides that our aduersaries of the greatest note do often shake off their authoritie when they are against them that of the Fathers writings some are doubted of some are corrupted and many counterfeites are put out vnder their names that the iudgement of all the Fathers cannot be had for all our controuersies These things being so how idle is it then for ordinarie men to be talking of Fathers of the opinion of all the Fathers or for any such men to be carried away with such a sound which is not possible for them to vnderstand seeing our aduersaries alleage them for their selues and we more truly for our selues III. Concerning the Churches custome and path in euerie age let them consider that this is very vncertaine Historians haue not alwaies in euery relation bin found faithfull that euerie Age hath not had in it such as haue truly written of the Church that a man may spend his whole life in seeking out the whole Churches course and yet not be able to find it out I suppose I erre not if I say that all men now liuing cannot do it exactly in euery Age. And therefore it s but a gulling flourish of our aduersaries to boast of the whole Church in euery Age and yet withall so boasting fraudulently to meane their owne particular Romane Church By alleaging then these arguments to wit Councels Fathers and the generall custome of the whole Church the conscience of an ordinarie Christian cannot bee throughly satisfied his knowledge cannot herein bee certaine to conuince his iudgement these are beyond his reach and capacitie Be aduised therefore not to be drawne with these reasons which are to thee so vncertaine but rest vpon the other which be plaine and easie within thy capacitie and certaine vnto thee by which thou mayst through Gods helpe maintaine that which thou professest and confute the aduersaries vntruths or at least gather thence such strength as they shall not easily draw thee to beleeue them as for instance in some particulars I wil shew thee They say that the Pope is the head of the Catholike Church There is no plaine Scripture for this We find Iesus Christ to be called the Head of the Church but no other It s no Article of our Creed therefore thou art not bound to beleeue it But I adde this that what we beleeue is inuisible Heb. 11.1 and not seene 2. Cor. 5.7 If therefore the Pope be the Head there must be a visible head of an inuisible body Againe the head immediately giues life motion and direction to its true body which the Pope cannot doe to Christs Church It s also vnreasonable to thinke two heads to bee for one body whether one besides another or one vnder another it is a monstrousity Common experience testifieth against the Popes inabilitie to performe the true office of the true Head to Gods Church They say that he cannot erre Let it be taken in the best sense they can conceiue it there is no plaine Scripture which giueth this to any one particular person It s no Article of our Creed to beleeue it experience hath found him to haue erred foully They say that after the words of consecration the bread is turned into the very body of Christ and the wine into his bloud so as Iesus Christ is there corporally as he was borne of the Virgin Marie vnder the accidents of bread and wine In holy Scripture there is no such thing taught there is a sacramentall phrase This is my Body and the like vsed in the Sacraments of the old Testament This is my Couenant Gen. 17.10 This is the Lords Passeouer Exo. 12.11 The Rocke was Christ 1. Cor. 10.4 but yet no turning one substance into another The Creed teacheth vs to belieue him to be in heauen and thence to expect his comming when hee shall appeare to iudge the quicke and the dead This transubstantiation therefore is no part of our Faith It s against reason for a true body and continued quantitie to be in two places yea in a thousand mouthes at once The Angels reason vnto Marie Mat. 28.6 confuteth this grosse opinion for he said to her when she with the other Marie came to seeke Christ He is not here for hee is risen that is He is not in this place because he is else-where in another If Christ could haue been in two places at once the Angels argument had been of no force remember that this is an Angell-reason which know wee how to reason truly This opinion is against our sences we see not feele not nor taste not flesh and blood Now God neuer deluded mans sences whensoeuer he turned one substance into another Moses staffe was made a Serpent dust was Lice the water blood and water was wine and all these sensible No Scripture nor any other approued testimony can be produced to shew vndoubtedly the contrarie Yea this is certaine that the true body of Christ is discernable by sense to be a true bodie wheresoeuer it is therefore when the Disciples doubted at his sudden appearing he said It is I my selfe And to proue this he willeth them to vse their senses saying Handle me and see that so they might discerne his true body flesh and bones and so might it be in the Sacrament if indeed and truth he were there corporally It hath been witnessed against by the blood or many Martyrs but where be so many in defence of our aduersaries grosse opinion Which of them haue euer hitherto or dare to suffer for this their opinion as ours haue done against it This opinion of our aduersaries is to be detested for first the falshood thereof secondly for the grosse idolatry committed through it euen a piece of bread adored for Almightie Iesus Christ himselfe Thirdly for the bloodie crueltie which for the vpholding of it hath been done with furious rage vpon the bodies of Gods Saints because they would not beleeue this false doctrine nor commit this abominable idolatrie Fourthly all such as thus beleeue sinne not only in the act damnably for Idolaters perish euerlastingly Reuel 21.8 but also irrepentantly because they be perswaded that in so beleeuing and worshipping they doe not onely not sin but doe a most excellent worke and meritorious seruice to God They teach that there is a Purgatorie a place of torment In holy Scriptures we find plainely Heauen Earth Hell Sea but no