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sense_n body_n bread_n transubstantiation_n 1,791 5 11.1891 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41388 Firmianus and Dubitantius, or, Certain dialogues concerning atheism, infidelity, popery, and other heresies and schisme's that trouble the peace of the church and are destructive of primitive piety written in a plain and easie method for the satisfaction of doubting Christians / by Tho. Good. Good, Thomas, 1609-1678. 1674 (1674) Wing G1029; ESTC R23950 83,883 174

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to_o the_o sight_n the_o smell_n the_o taste_n shall_v we_o think_v that_o the_o god_n of_o truth_n give_v to_o m●n_z five_z scence_z to_o deceive_v 4_o of_o they_o by_o one_o pretend_a miracle_n or_o that_o it_o be_v his_o method_n to_o inform_v the_o mind_n by_o imposture_n if_o one_o or_o two_o or_o three_o sense_n may_v be_v deceive_v why_o not_o all_o then_o what_o will_v become_v of_o rome_n oral_a tradition_n for_o may_v not_o the_o ear_n be_v deceive_v as_o well_o as_o the_o eye_n the_o nose_n the_o taste_n the_o touch_n here_o be_v 4_o sense_n to_o one_o against_o that_o tradition_n and_o then_o how_o be_v the_o papi_v certain_a of_o what_o they_o have_v receive_v from_o the_o present_a church_n or_o how_o be_v she_o certain_a of_o what_o she_o receive_v from_o the_o church_n immediate_o before_o she_o be_v not_o the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n which_o teach_v man_n not_o to_o believe_v their_o eye_n and_o other_o of_o their_o sense_n a_o ready_a way_n to_o atheism_n and_o infidelity_n for_o if_o four_o of_o the_o five_o sense_n may_v be_v deceive_v then_o farewell_o all_o tradition_n and_o if_o these_o inferior_a faculty_n may_v be_v thus_o baffle_v what_o satisfaction_n can_v it_o have_v be_v to_o st._n thomas_n that_o christ_n be_v true_o rise_v from_o the_o dead_a by_o put_v his_o finger_n into_o the_o print_n of_o the_o nail_n or_o his_o hand_n into_o his_o side_n but_o beside_o what_o sense_n and_o reason_n witness_v against_o this_o monstrous_a opinion_n the_o scripture_n be_v clear_o opposite_a unto_o it_o for_o christ_n at_o the_o institution_n of_o this_o sacrament_n do_v not_o take_v his_o own_o body_n into_o his_o hand●_n but_o bread_n he_o break_v not_o his_o own_o body_n but_o bread_n he_o do_v not_o eat_v his_o own_o body_n he_o do_v not_o drink_v his_o own_o blood_n but_o he_o drink_v of_o the_o fruit_n of_o the_o vine_n mat._n 26.29_o for_o so_o he_o call_v it_o after_o consecration_n and_o distribution_n i_o will_v not_o drink_v henceforth_o of_o the_o fruit_n of_o the_o vine_n etc._n etc._n in_o like_a manner_n st._n paul_n it_o be_v still_o this_o bread_n and_o this_o cup._n 1._o cor._n 11.26_o when_o our_o saviour_n say_v hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la what_o do_v hoc_fw-la stand_v for_o either_o it_o must_v signify_v this_o thing_n in_o my_o hand_n i._n e._n the_o bread_n or_o else_o his_o own_o body_n which_o body_n he_o hold_v in_o his_o hand_n utter_v these_o word_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la that_o be_v corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la a_o mere_a identical_a trifle_a proposition_n which_o according_a to_o all_o logic_n be_v most_o absurd_a and_o destroy_v the_o very_a nature_n of_o a_o sacrament_n which_o consist_v of_o two_o essential_a part_n the_o sign_n and_o the_o thing_n signify_v beside_o they_o of_o rome_n con●ess_n that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o present_a under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n when_o the_o priest_n begin_v to_o pronounce_v hoc_fw-la nor_o till_o he_o have_v utter_v the_o last_o syllable_n um_o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la such_o poor_a shift_n these_o man_n be_v force_v to_o use_v as_o for_o antiquity_n so_o much_o boast_v of_o by_o those_o of_o rome_n i_o know_v that_o some_o of_o the_o father_n to_o draw_v man_n mind_n from_o the_o earthly_a element_n to_o heavenly_a mystery_n use_v now_o and_o then_o high_a rhetorical_a expression_n never_o dream_v of_o any_o substantial_a change_n of_o the_o element_n into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n as_o be_v evident_a from_o iraeneus_n panis_n communis_fw-la post_fw-la consecrationem_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la amplius_fw-la panis_fw-la communis_fw-la sed_fw-la efficitur_fw-la eucharistia_n quae_fw-la constat_fw-la ex_fw-la duabus_fw-la naturis_fw-la terrenâ_fw-la &_o cael●sti_fw-la haec_fw-la oblatio_fw-la ●st_fw-la figura_fw-la corporis_fw-la &_o sanguinis_fw-la christi_fw-la ambrose_n 1._o ad_fw-la cor._n cap._n 11._o &_o lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr sacram._n non_fw-la dubitavit_fw-la dominus_fw-la dicere_fw-la hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la cum_fw-la dedit_fw-la fignum_fw-la svi_fw-la corporis_fw-la aug_n epist_n 23._o ad_fw-la bonifa_n &_o 12._o cap._n contra_fw-la adiman_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la i._n e._n typus_fw-la corporis_fw-la mei_fw-la ter●ull_a panem_fw-la &_o vinum_fw-la appellatione_fw-la corporis_fw-la &_o sanguinis_fw-la honoravit_fw-la non_fw-la naturam_fw-la quidem_fw-la mutans_fw-la sed_fw-la naturae_fw-la gratiam_fw-la adjiciens_fw-la theod._n dial_n 1._o &_o 2._o in_o a_o word_n the_o ancient_a father_n who_o oppose_v the_o eutychian_a haeresy_n do_v make_v use_n of_o the_o sacramental_a union_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n to_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n show_v that_o the_o humane_a nature_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o more_o change_v into_o the_o divine_a then_o the_o sacramental_a bread_n and_o wine_n be_v into_o the_o very_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n therefore_o they_o believe_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o that_o monstrous_a popish_a transubstantiation_n so_o that_o we_o see_v the_o falsity_n and_o absurdity_n of_o it_o by_o scripture_n antiquity_n common_a sense_n and_o reason_n beside_o the_o great_a danger_n of_o idolatry_n in_o worship_v a_o piece_n of_o bread_n if_o there_o be_v no_o transubstantiation_n as_o some_o of_o the_o papist_n themselves_o confess_v and_o they_o also_o acknowledge_v that_o if_o the_o priest_n that_o consecrate_v be_v not_o right_o ordain_v or_o that_o he_o do_v not_o actual_o intend_v to_o consecrate_v or_o that_o he_o omit_v any_o one_o ceremony_n which_o they_o call_v necessary_a at_o the_o time_n of_o consecration_n that_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v not_o due_o consecrate_a and_o consequent_o no_o transubstantiation_n and_o therefore_o great_a probability_n that_o the_o papist_n in_o worship_v the_o host_n do_v frequent_o commit_v the_o very_a great_a sin_n of_o idolatry_n which_o be_v to_o i_o one_o great_a reason_n of_o forsake_v their_o communion_n firm._n true_o it_o be_v a_o substantial_a reason_n and_o such_o a_o one_o that_o have_v wrought_v upon_o other_o beside_o yourself_o however_o i_o desire_v to_o hear_v from_o you_o what_o further_a reason_n you_o have_v to_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n dub._n the_o next_o which_o i_o shall_v acquaint_v you_o with_o be_v the_o half_a communion_n so_o manifest_o against_o scripture_n and_o antiquity_n our_o bless_a saviour_n at_o the_o instituition_n of_o the_o sacrament_n command_v drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o whereas_o at_o the_o give_v of_o the_o bread_n he_o say_v only_o take_v eat_v foresee_v and_o obviate_a this_o grand_a error_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n it_o be_v true_a the_o person_n then_o communicate_v be_v only_o his_o disciple_n which_o have_v receive_v their_o commission_n to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n before_o that_o time_n but_o not_o in_o that_o ample_a and_o full_a manner_n as_o they_o receive_v it_o after_o his_o resurrection_n as_o be_v plain_a from_o john_n 20_o 22_o 23._o and_o m●t._n 28_o 29._o but_o be_v it_o grant_v that_o they_o be_v all_o in_o full_a order_n and_o upon_o that_o account_n the_o cup_n be_v give_v they_o otherwise_o they_o shall_v not_o have_v receive_v it_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o bread_n may_v be_v deny_v to_o the_o people_n because_o none_o but_o priest_n do_v then_o communicate_v but_o we_o know_v that_o a_o priest_n when_o he_o do_v not_o consecrate_v be_v in_o the_o place_n of_o a_o layman_n and_o consequent_o the_o disciple_n not_o consecrate_v at_o the_o supper_n be_v no_o better_o and_o therefore_o according_a to_o the_o doctrine_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n shall_v not_o have_v receive_v the_o cup._n but_o what_o will_v they_o think_v of_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o corinth_n to_o who_o st._n paul_n send_v a_o first_o and_o second_o epistle_n they_o can_v imagine_v they_o be_v all_o priest_n observe_v then_o how_o ●e_n exhort_v all_o of_o they_o to_o examine_v themselves_o in_o order_n to_o the_o receive_n of_o the_o holy_a eucharist_n under_o both_o kind_n 1._o cor_fw-la 11._o this_o be_v so_o evident_a that_o our_o adversary_n have_n nothing_o to_o reply_v as_o for_o antiquity_n the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v clear_o against_o it_o as_o jam_fw-la able_a to_o demonstrate_v from_o express_a testimony_n of_o the_o father_n but_o our_o learned_a writer_n have_v ●aved_v i_o that_o trouble_n those_o that_o please_v may_v peruse_v chami●re_o ch●mnitius_n jewel_n cracanthorp_n the_o confession_n of_o the_o council_n of_o co●stance_n stand_v as_o a_o last_a monument_n against_o the_o popish_a innovation_n in_o this_o particular_a the_o word_n be_v these_o we_o decree_v in_o like_a manner_n that_o though_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n the_o holy_a eucharist_n be_v receive_v under_o both_o kind_n by_o the_o faithful_a yet_o this_o custom_n to_o avoid_v some_o danger_n and_o scandal_n be_v reasonable_o
tender_a conscience_n and_o the_o occasion_n of_o many_o sh●rp_a contention_n among_o christian_n agree_v in_o the_o substantial_o of_o religion_n and_o see_v that_o conformist_n themselves_o confess_v they_o not_o to_o be_v in_o their_o own_o nature_n necessary_a but_o only_o expedient_a for_o order_n and_o decency_n be_v it_o not_o better_o they_o be_v lay_v aside_o then_o continue_v be_v they_o be_v the_o perpetual_a cause_n of_o discord_n and_o dissension_n among_o we_o firm._n and_o be_v order_n decency_n and_o uniformity_n without_o which_o there_o will_v be_v neither_o ●ove_n peace_n or_o unity_n su●h_v inconsiderable_a nothing_o that_o a_o few_o innocent_a ceremony_n must_v be_v utter_o abollish_v to_o gratify_v the_o dogmatize_v humour_n of_o those_o man_n who_o esteem_v thing_n in_o themselves_o indifferent_a to_o be_v sinful_a and_o unlawful_a which_o be_v s●●t_a superstition_n it_o be_v indeed_o much_o to_o be_v lament_v that_o we_o shall_v quarrel_v about_o mint_n and_o cummin_n to_o the_o prejudice_n of_o more_o weighty_a and_o material_a duty_n and_o the_o scandal_n of_o our_o religion_n but_o by_o reason_n of_o our_o innate_a and_o acquit_v corruption_n it_o be_v necessary_a that_o offence_n shall_v come_v yet_o woe_n be_v unto_o that_o man_n by_o who_o they_o come_v i_o know_v weakness_n and_o renderness_n of_o conscience_n be_v much_o pretend_v and_o we_o ought_v to_o take_v heed_n how_o we_o offend_v any_o of_o christ_n little_a one_o but_o how_o can_v these_o man_n be_v reckon_v in_o the_o number_n of_o weak_a or_o little_a one_o who_o seem_v to_o themselves_o so_o great_a so_o strong_a and_o able_a in_o the_o thing_n of_o religion_n and_o for_o their_o tenderness_n of_o conscience_n we_o appeal_v to_o their_o bloody_a civil_a war_n it_o be_v well_o know_v by_o who_o and_o how_o they_o be_v begin_v and_o carry●d_v on_o till_o at_o length_n they_o come_v up_o to_o the_o death_n of_o the_o king_n though_o i_o believe_v very_o much_o against_o the_o intention_n and_o design_n of_o the_o most_o grave_a and_o sober_a man_n of_o that_o party_n dub._n but_o real_o sir_n be_v it_o not_o more_o beseem_v christian_a prudence_n so_o far_o to_o condescend_v to_o our_o dissent_v brethren_n who_o agree_v with_o we_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o church_n in_o take_v away_o at_o least_o some_o of_o those_o ceremony_n which_o be_v more_o liable_a to_o exception_n then_o to_o comply_v with_o the_o superstitious_a papist_n in_o the_o use_n of_o they_o firm._n i_o confess_v some_o moderate_a man_n have_v think_v so_o especial_o since_o we_o be_v frustrate_v of_o of_o one_o main_a end_n for_o which_o our_o first_o reformer_n retain_v they_o which_o be_v to_o draw_v over_o the_o papist_n into_o the_o communion_n of_o our_o church_n which_o they_o do_v adhere_v unto_o for_o the_o ten_o first_o year_n of_o queen_n elizabeth_n until_o they_o be_v interdict_v by_o the_o pope_n bull_n but_o see_v we_o be_v deprive_v of_o all_o hope_n of_o that_o much_o desire_a issue_n and_o that_o by_o the_o cunning_a of_o priest_n and_o jesuit_n stir_v up_o and_o animate_v the_o conformist_n and_o nonconformist_n against_o each_o other_o about_o these_o ceremony_n our_o difference_n among_o ourselves_o do_v daily_o increase_v and_o multiply_v some_o wise_a and_o peaceable_a man_n have_v desire_v that_o the_o use_n of_o certain_a of_o those_o ceremony_n may_v be_v forbear_v at_o least_o for_o a_o time_n which_o not_o withstand_v they_o be_v still_o continue_v these_o peaceable_a man_n abhor_v the_o great_a sin_n of_o separation_n &_o do_v continue_v their_o conformity_n to_o the_o rite_n of_o our_o church_n daily_o beg_v at_o the_o throne_n of_o grace_n that_o the_o god_n of_o truth_n and_o peace_n will_v for_o his_o mercy_n ●ake_v so_o assist_v those_o power_n which_o he_o have_v ordain_v that_o they_o may_v be_v instrumental_a for_o the_o establish_n of_o truth_n and_o peace_n among_o we_o dub._n i_o like_v well_o of_o the_o temper_n of_o these_o man_n and_o wish_v that_o their_o moderation_n be_v not_o only_o know_v unto_o but_o practise_v by_o all_o man_n for_o certain_o if_o the_o spirit_n of_o love_n peace_n and_o meekness_n do_v rule_n more_o in_o our_o peevish_a and_o froward_a heart_n we_o shall_v enjoy_v a_o great_a measure_n of_o peace_n love_n and_o christian_a charity_n than_o these_o angry_a time_n have_v hither_o to_o be_v happy_a with_o i_o return_v you_o my_o hearty_a thanks_o for_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o you_o have_v give_v i_o in_o those_o scruple_n which_o have_v much_o trouble_v i_o about_o the_o government_n liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n there_o be_v yet_o one_o thing_n behind_o at_o which_o i_o have_v somewhat_o be_v scandallize_v it_o be_v this_o your_o church_n do_v receive_v person_n who_o be_v notorious_o profane_a in_o their_o life_n and_o gross_o ignorant_a in_o the_o principl_n of_o religion_n to_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n beside_o she_o tolerate_v at_o least_o minister_n that_o be_v scandalous_a in_o their_o conversation_n frequenter_n of_o alehouse_n not_o at_o all_o serious_a in_o religion_n show_v little_a sense_n of_o it_o in_o their_o discourse_n preach_v or_o practice_n man_n of_o little_a conscience_n and_o of_o as_o little_a learning_n firm._n this_o accusation_n be_v most_o false_o whether_o it_o spring_v from_o spite_n or_o malice_n or_o extreme_a ignorance_n i_o know_v not_o sure_o i_o be_o our_o church_n order_n that_o no_o su●h_a person_n be_v admit_v to_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n th●t_v no_o such_o minister_n be_v permit_v to_o officiate_v that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v suspend_v once_o and_o again_o and_o if_o they_o do_v no_o not_o reform_v they_o be_v to_o be_v deprive_v for_o the_o first_o you_o may_v see_v the_o rubric_n before_o the_o communion_n and_o the_o 26._o canon_n for_o the_o second_o see_v artic_a 26._o and_o canon_n the_o 74._o and_o 75._o and_o canon_n 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the_o communion_n can._n 26._o dub._n it_o be_v evident_a that_o such_o minister_n be_v not_o punish_v either_o by_o admonition_n suspensition_n or_o deprivation_n firm._n this_o be_v not_o true_a in_o all_o place_n to_o my_o knowledge_n where_o such_o minister_n or_o people_n escape_v unpunished_a it_o be_v most_o by_o the_o fault_n of_o the_o churchwarden_n and_o sides-man_n in_o not_o present_v they_o for_o what_o judge_n either_o ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a can_v punish_v offence_n that_o be_v not_o bring_v before_o he_o dub._n but_o many_o time_n offence_n and_o scandal_n have_v be_v present_v and_o the_o offender_n not_o punish_v yea_o your_o ecclesiastical_a judge_n be_v more_o severe_a against_o those_o who_o be_v nonconformist_n to_o the_o law_n o●_n the_o church_n ●hen_o against_o those_o that_o be_v nonconformist_n to_o the_o law_n of_o god_n as_o profane_v irreligious_a wretch_n firm._n no_o m●n_z c●n_o excuse_v the_o personal_a abuse_n that_o be_v commit_v in_o any_o 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