Selected quad for the lemma: sense_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	bishop_n	church_n	presbyter_n	1,830	5	10.5915	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A34675	A defence of Mr. John Cotton from the imputation of selfe contradiction, charged on him by Mr. Dan. Cavvdrey written by himselfe not long before his death ; whereunto is prefixed, an answer to a late treatise of the said Mr. Cavvdrey about the nature of schisme, by John Owen ...	Cotton, John, 1584-1652.; Owen, John, 1616-1683. Of schisme.	1658 (1658)	Wing C6427; ESTC R2830	62,631	184

Pope of Rome in any one particular that constituteth him such an officer was once instituted by Christ I shall farther attend unto his Reason for his Authority from that of the High-Priests among the Jewes which was not lost as to it's continuance in the family of Aaron notwithstanding the miscarriage of some individuall Person vested therewithall In the close of the Chapter he reassumes his charge of my renouncing my owne Ordination which with great confidence and without the least scruple he had asserted in his Answer of that assersion he now pretends to give the Reasons whereof the first is this 1. The world lookes on him as an Independent of the highest note therefore he hath renounced his ordination and therefore I dare to say so So much for that reason I understand neither the Logick nor morality of this first Reason 2. He knowes from good hands that some of the Brethren have renounced their Ordination therefore he durst say positively that I have renounced mine Prov. 12. 18. 3. He hath heard that I disswaded others from their ordination and therefore he durst say I renownced my owne and yet I suppose he may possibly disswade some from Episcopall Ordination but I know it not no more than he knowes what he affirmes of me which is false 4. He concludes from the principles in my book of Schisme because I said that to insist upon a succession of ordination from Anti-Christ and the Beast of Rome would if I mistake not keep up in this particular what God would have pulled down therefore I renounced my ordination when he knowes that I avowed the validity of ordination on another account 5. If all this will not doe he tels me of something that was said at a publique meeting at dinner it seemes with the Canons of christ-Chhist-Church viz that I vallued not my ordination by the Bishop of Oxford any more than a crum upon my trencher which words whether ever they were spoken or no or to what purpose or in reference to what Ordination I meane of the two orders or in what sense or with what limitation or as part of what discourse or in comparison of what else or whither solely in refference to the Roman succession in which sense I will have nothing to doe with it I know not at all nor will concerne my selfe to enquire being greatly ashamed to find men professing the Religion of Jesus Christ so farre forgetfull of all common Rules of civility and principles of humane society as to insist upon such vaine groundlesse reports as the Foundations of accusations against their Brethren nor doe I believe that any one of the Reverend Persons quoted will owne this information although I shall not concerne my selfe to make enquiry into their memories concerning any such passage or discourse Much reliefe for the future against these and the like mistakes may be afforded from an easy observation of the different senses wherein the terme of Ordination is often used it is one thing when it is taken largely for the whole appointment of a man to the ministry in which sense I desire our Authour to consider what is written by Beza among Reformed and Gerhard among the Lutheran Divines to omit innumerable others another thing when taken for the imposition of hand whither by Bishops or Presbyters concerning which single Act both as to its order efficacy I have sufficiently delivered my judgment if he be pleased to take notice of it I feare indeed that when men speak of an ordained ministry which in its true and proper sense I shall with them contend for they often relate only to that solemnity restraining the authoritative making of ministers singly thereunto contrary to the intention and meaning of that expression in Scripture antiquity and the best reformed Divines both Calvinists and Lutherans and yet it is not imaginable how some men prevaile by the noise and sound of that Word upon the prejudiced minds of partiall unstudied men A litle time may farther manifest if it be not sufficiently done already that another account is given of this matter by Clemens Tertullian Cyprian Origen Justin Martyr and generally all the first writers of Christians besides the Counsels of old late with innumerable Protestant Authors of the best note to the same purpose This I say is the ground of this mistake whereas sundry things concurre to the calling of Ministers as it belongs to the Church of God the ground and pillar of truth the spouse of Christ Psal. 45. and mother of the family or she that tarryeth at home Psal. 68. unto whom all ministers are stewards 1 Cor. 4. 1. even in that house of God 1 Tim. 3. 15. and sundry qualifications are indispensably previously required in the persons to be called overlooking the necessity of the qualifications required and omitting the duty and authority of the Church Acts 1. 15. Acts 6. 2. 13. 2. 14. 22. the Act of them who are not the whole Church Ephes. 4. 11 12. but only a part of it 1 Cor. 3. 21. 2 Cor. 1. 24. 1 Pet. 5. 3. as to ministry consisting in the approbation and solemne confirmation of what is supposed to go before hath in some mens language gotten the name of ordination and an interpretation of that name to such an extent as to enwrap in it all that is indispensably necessary to the constitution or making of ministers so that where that is obtained in what order soever or by whom soever administred who have first obtained it themselves there is a lawfull and sufficient calling to the ministry Indeed I know no errour about the institutions of Christ attended with more pernitious consequences to the Church of God then this should it be practised according to the force of the principle its selfe Suppose six eight or ten men who have themselves been formerly ordained but now perhaps not by any ecclesiasticall censure but by an act of the civill magistrate are put out of their places for notorious ignorance and scandall should concurre and ordaine an hundred ignorant and wicked persons like themselves to be ministers must they not on this Principle be all accounted ministers of Christ and to be invested with all ministeriall power and so be enabled to propagate their kind to the end of the world and indeed why should not this be granted seeing the whole bulke of the papall ordination is contended for as valid whereas it is notoriously knowne that sundry Bishops among them who perhaps received their own ordination as the reward of a whore being persons of vitious lives and utterly ignorant of the Gospell did sustaine their pompe and sloth by selling holy orders as they called them to the scum and refuse of men but of these things more in their proper place Take then Reader the substance of this chapter in this briefe recapitulation 1. He denies our Churches to be true Churches and our Ministers true Ministers 2. He hath renounced his owne ordination 3. When some

particular Church it is no Church at all for the Catholicke Church it is not he replyes that though it be not such a particular Congregation as I intend yet it may be a particular Patriarchall Church but 1 then it seemes it is a particular Church which grants my inference 2. It was a particular Church of Christ's institution that I inquired after doth our Authour think that Christ hath appointed any Patriarchall Church a Patriarchall Church as such is such from it's Relation to a Patriarch and he can scarce be thought to judge Patriarches to be of Divine institution who hath cast off and abjured Episcopacy The Donatists are mentioned againe p. 113. And I am againe Charged with an attempt to vindicate them from schisme my thoughts of them I have before declared to the full have no reason to retract any thing from what was then spoken or to adde any thing thereunto if it may satisfie our Authour I here grant they were Schismatickes with what aggravations he pleaseth wherein their schisme consisted I have also declared but he sayes I undertake to exempt some others from schisme I know whom that suffer with them in former and after ages under the same imputation I doe so indeed and I suppose our Authour may ghesse at whom I intend himselfe amongst others I hope he is not so taken up in his thoughts with charging schisme on others as to forget that many the greatest part and number of the true Churchs of Christ doe condemne him for a Schismatick a Donatisticall Schismatick I suppose he acknowledges the Church of Rome to be a true Church the Lutheran I am perswaded he will not deny nor perhaps the Grecian to be so The Episcopall Church of England he contends for and yet all these with one voice cry out upon him for a Schismaticke and as to the plea of the last how he can satisfie his conscience as to the rejection of his lawfull superiors upon his owne principles without pretending any such crime against them as the Donatists did against Caecilianus I professe I do not understand new mention is made of Episcopall ordination p. 120 And they are said to have had their successive ordination from Rome who ordained therein so indeed some say and some otherwise whether they had or no is nothing to me I lay no weight upon it they held I am sure that place in England that without their approbation no man could publickly preach the Gospell to say they were Presbyters and ordained as Presbyters I know not what satisfaction can arise unto Conscience thereby Party and argument may be countenanced by it they professe they ordained as Bishops that for their lives and soules they durst not ordaine but as such so they told those whom they ordained and affirme they have open injury done them by any ones deniall of it As it was the best is to be made of it this shift is not handsome nor is it ingenious for any one that hath looked into Antiquity to charge me with departing from their sense in the notion of schisme declared about the 3d 4th Ages at the same time to maintaine an equality between Bishops and Presbyters or to say that Bishops ordained as Presbyters not as Bishops nor doe I understand the excellency of that order which we see in some Churches where they have two sorts of Elders the one made so by ordination without Election and the other by Election without ordination those who are ordained casting off all power and Authority of them that ordained them and those who are elected immediately rejecting the greatest part of those that chose them Nor did I as is pretend plead for their Presbyterian way in the yeare 46 all the ministers almost in the county of Essex know the contrary one especially who being a man of great ability and moderation of spirit and for his knowledge in those things not behind any man I know in England of his way with whome in that yeare and the next following I had sundry conferences at publicke meetings of ministers as to the severall wayes of Reformation then under proposall But the frivolousnesse of these imputations hath been spoken of before as also the falsnesse of the Calumny which our Authour is pleased to repeat againe about my turning from wayes in Religion My description of a particular Church he once more blames as applicable to the Catholicke Church invisible and to the visible Catholick Church I suppose he meanes as such when a participation in the same ordinances numerically is assigned as its difference He askes whether it becomes my ingenuity to interpret the capability of a Churches reduction to it's primitive constitution by its owne fitnesse and capacity to be so reduced rather then by its externall hinderances or furtherances But with what ingenuity or modesty that question is asked I professe I understand not and pag. 134 he hath this passage only I take notice of his introduction to his answer with thankes for the civility of the inquiry in the manner of its expresion my words were these whether our Reverend Authour doe not in his conscience thinke there was no true Church in England 'till c which puts me into suspition that the Reverend Doctour was offended that I did not alwaies for oft I doe give him that title of the Reverend Authour or the Doctor which made him cry out he was never so dealt withall by any party as by me though upon review I doe not find that I gave him any uncivill language unbeseeming me to give or him to receive and I heare that somebody hath dealt more uncivilly with him in that respect which he took very ill Let this Reverend Authour make what use of it he please I cannot but againe tell him that these things become neither him nor any man professing the Religion of Jesus Christ or that hath any respect to truth or sobriety can any man thinke that in his conscience he gives any credit to the insinuation which here he makes that I should thanke him for calling me Reverend Authour or Reverend Doctor or be troubled for his not useing those expressions Can the mind of an honest man be thought to be conversant with such meane and low thoughts for the Title of Reverend I doe give him notice that I have very little valued it ever since I have considered the saying of Luther Nunquam periclitatur Religio nisi inter Reverendissimos So that he may as to me forbeare it for the future and call me as the Quakers doe and it shall suffice And for that of Doctor it was conferred on me by the University in my absence and against my consent as they have expressed it under their publicke seale nor doth any thing but gratitude and respect unto them make me once own it and freed from that obligation I should never use it more nor did I use it untill some were offended with me blamed me for my