of as great mutability as time hath mutation is in potentia another thing to the proportion of the changes of time as because a man who walks can stop and the flame of a candle go out in an instant therefore the consistency of a material subject as to our minds consideration is but moment-strong and we can affirm nothing of it in force of contradiction more durable then the unchangeableness or identity of time which is purely a thought or an abstraction Out of this it follows that if we put in spirituall substances a more then momentanean constancy we must also put the force of contradiction in them proportionable to that constancy or identity of it self to it self Now your self seeming to admit this constancy under the name of aeviternity in spirits for a future eternity it seems to me you should admit nothing in spirits that is not compossible together in the subject and by evident consequence that not to have an act and to have one in the same aeviternity is as impossible as not to have and to have in the same instant of time You will peradventure tell me this position ruins some common opinions in Divinity and my brittle Vindicator would tell me it moulder'd away his faith Sir if you be of the opinion that Theology is arriv'd to its non plus ultra I am not I think many now common and probable opinions will in after ages be demonstrated against and prove erroneous and therefore the pure authority of Divines who build upon pure reason hath no farther force with me then their reason And I think I have learned this lesson out of Saint Augustin as I am sure your self also have how ever in practice apparences may seduce you from the exercise of it as if you believe it consonant to Scriptures Fathers Councils c. without a legitimate examination of them which when you go about you find them to be easily eluded by the glosses of blasted Authors many of which kind of Authors nevertheless Saint Hierom in his Comments upon the Scriptures was used to cite that men of understanding might see in the variety of divers conceits what truths might be picked out even of blasted Authors as Aristotle out of the verities mingled among false opinions drew his own demonstrations The rest of these Chapters is but an explication indifferent to both sides in which as you admit in Purgatory a disposition to charity so me thinks you should to the change of affections by it And whereas you say that the soul is extra viam the common Tenet of Divines should admonish you that she is not in state to have new revelations and changes which are the propriety of Via Notes on the tenth Chapter WHich is for its Positions entirely true and holy but you seem to suppose as true some misinformations or misapprehensions concerning your Adversary as that he questions generall traditions and calls them novelties which how you can do who know Saint Austin testifies in his time as yet the question was not agitated and that each part might prove either true or false and that the Authour of the celebrated Dialogues expresly teaches they were unknown till his dayes and from thence till Saint Odilo's time very little esteemed or noysed How such an opinion can chuse but be a Novelty in respect of the Church of God I cannot understand or that six hundred years ago with a known beginning can enroll it into the practices or doctrins delivered by the Apostles passes my reach As for the universall sense of the Church I hope the Council of Florence's act will demonstrate the contrary as you may see in my answer to the Vindicator whither I beg leave to remit you The Text you cite out of Saint Austin is excellently true Quae universa tenet Ecclesia ab Apostolis praecepta bene creduntur quanquam scripta non reperiantur but with these cautions That the Church that is the community of Believers as such not as a multitude of men hold them as of faith not opine them only to be current truths else every common perswasion grounded on any probable Reason or Authority would become an unchangeable Article of Christian Religion and in this I think I have your consent if I mistake not the the 32. Chapter of your Systema which I formerly cited and desire my Reader to peruse the whole Chapter being excellently pertinent to this purpose As also Verons general Rule of Catholike faith which I hear is newly translated into English There you shall see how warily that experienced Controvertist proceeds in separating faith from opinions No doctrin says he begun since the Apostles though confirm'd by miracles and those miracles reported by Saints or approved by generall Councils or attested in the Bulls of canonization can ever be an Article of faith Nor is the practice says the same Auhor even of the universall Church a ground firm enough to build a point of Catholike faith upon because the object of faith is truth and the Church often guides her practices by probable opinions which upon occasion she may change And for Decrees of Councils the same Doctor maintains and cites Bellarmin for his opinion that unless the Council proceed conciliarly that is by due examination c. and define properly not barely affirm a thing by simple assertion and occasionally as it were en passant it does not oblige our belief and which is highest of all though the Council decree expresly and professedly a Doctrin debated yet unless it be defined as a truth to be believed with Catholike faith they are not properly heretiques that hold the contrary What you deliver that one mans satispassion may by way of impetration satisfie for another and profit him is very acceptable and none but they who mistake the words can dislike the sense for we see humiliations accompany solemn prayers both in the Law of Moses and Grace and nature it self teaches us it is a convenient habit for him that intreats mercy Notes on the eleventh Chapter WHere I see very little for me particularly to except against but that you term our Tenet an Innovation which name better becomes your own But this is an Indulgence to be granted to the conceit every one has of his own arguments For the opinion that the sensitive or corporeall part of man is capable of venial sin in it self and so of goodness I neither have nor will have any thing to do with it You say 't is taught by the most speculative Divines as Scotus's Scool and Cajetan c. I dare not meddle with such great men As for your Opiniators you speak of I cannot point you to a fairer example then the Vindicators Creed which he hath declared to be his faith in his Discourse against me To the touch you give about probable opinions the question is too great to engage in on so slight an occasion The place you quote out of Saint Austin seems not to concern the
too credulous to fabulous narrations In it are recorded the famous tales of Trajan and Falconilla saved from Hell by the prayers of Saint Gregory and Saint Thecla There is the monstrous story which you are pleased to recount to your Readers of an Heathens scull that told a good Eremite they received some comfort when they were pray'd for Which story is taken either out of Palladius his Historia Lausiaca or else Evagrius his Vitae Patrum of which Saint Hierom testifies onely the first life to be true and even in it is that notorious Romance of Macarius Romanus And of the former the same Saint Hierom testifies he was an Origenist wherefore the Authour of this Oration attributed to St. John Damascen is justly fear'd to have himself also been one seeing his fine stories aym at the comfort of the damned Besides our Criticks tell us this story is imposed on the great Saint Macarius being originally written of another of the same name and the Oratour adding that the answer was from God whereas the Original attributes it to the scull of a dead heathen Priest and so far likelier came from the Devil All the rest you say in this Chapter is just the Doctrin of your Epistolar Antagonist as far as you let us understand his mind and mine too to wit that to deny prayers profit the dead cometh from the Devil The general resistence you plead against this Doctrin of Souls continuance in Purgatory finds a parallel in all popular perswasions how weakly grounded soever which none but discreet persons can endure to hear opposed And for the answer I intreat your pardon if I remit you to my late Reply to the Vindicator For the rest you seem to press us that we must take your sence of the Fathers and Councils telling us it is the onely ingenious one and others are but extorted meanings Truly I believe you speak what you think but I desire you think what you speak that is examin it well for I believe your thinking is bred ex consuetudine videndi your education hath been amongst them who dayly practis'd it you hear the Bells ever ringing to such devotions you see the custom spread over all the Western Church and do not lift up your eyes to the beginning of it and therefore you think it was ever so and that it is the sence of those great Authorities But I cannot omit a by-word of yours that it is easie to elude the Fathers by the voluntary glosses of blasted Authors Is this spoken like a Controvertist like a victorious and crowned Champion over Heretiques and that by weapons out of the Fathers as you are esteemed and worthily too When you bring Fathers against any of them do you profess they may be easily answer'd by blasted Authors Whence then comes it that in this Controversie you flie to an evasion so unprofitable to your self injurious to the Fathers and advantageous to the common Enemy but that you esteem the Fathers you bring come not home to the point and that they must be inched out by a pious affection whereof to tell you my mind I believe all speciousness of piety which prevents the understanding from being indifferent to judge of the truth is in very deed a piece of impiety and temerity And in our present Controversie if the words of the Fathers by which they attribute purging of souls to the fire of Judgment be not beyond contest I will yeeld the whole cause Some I have cited in my Treatise and more I can cite if necessity requires but if they be why is it not lawfull for me to alledge them though Heretiques make use of them for an evil end charge either the Fathers for writing so or the Heretiques for abusing them however I I am free Notes on the second and third Chapters THese 2 Chapters go without Proofs being as it were but inferences from the pretended Ones of the First and consequently their fate depends on the fortune of their Leaders which I hope I have already sufficiently disabled Yet give me leave here to add one Caution that may accompany you in your journey to ask all the Catholick world whether they believe a Release of Souls out of Purgatory ordinarily obtainable before the day of Judgment as an Article of their faith or onely assent to it as a current truth which they never doubted nor ever examin'd Should you proceed thus warily I believe your number would strangely diminish how many think you would fall off as not conceiving themselves able to examin so hard a Question how many of the learned would confess the more they impartially consider it the more they discover reasons not to be too confident of its being a point of Faith especially if they have the fortune to compare it with other common perswasions which themselves acknowledg Universal and ancient yet not of Faith as that of material fire now in Hell and Purgatory c. how few then will the number of your Voters be set but aside all those who think there 's literal fire there which you are bound to do because they believe it cerraintly yet is it not of Faith and presently your multitude in Spain Italy Turky and Soria whither you went for witnesses will shrink into a slender and inconsiderable number Whereas you add we never read in Scriptures Fathers or Councils that all those that go to Purgatory must necessarily be detaind there without any relief till the day of Judgment I answer first 't is but a negative Argument Secondly It plainly agrees with my Opinion who hold them relieved there as well as you though I explicate my Tenet another way Which here I intend in brief to shew you Wherein that we may proceed more safely let us first see how far we agree and where we begin to differ We agree that there is a Purgatory and that souls there detain'd are helpt or reliev'd by the prayers of the faithfull We begin to differ in explicating what we conceive by relief and we wholy disagree in the time of ordinary deliverableness Your conception of Relief I imagin is that when prayers are said for the departed their souls are really changed from the state of pains they were in before to one of a milder affliction where they must expect till some new cause raise them a step higher and so by degrees having past over all those steps are at last admitted into heaven your self will agree these words are metaphoricall and translated from our manner of speaking and I gather and conceive the sense too of these words is translated from our thinking and indeed if we mind our selves well we shall still find our words of the same piece with our notions now we being conversant onely with our bodies frame all our notions after their measure and speak and think too generally of spirits and even of God himself as of things we daily commerce with Do we not still fancy such motions changes and other operations
question being only about the meaning of a Text of Scripture however the saying is a very good saying Concerning some seeming excrescencies as you call them in practical Devotion you speak like a grave man you dislike them indeed but in such soft and gentle words that none but a very tender ear will feel the stroke they have no strict acquaintance with Church orders they are onely a sort of Bigotterie which is a dark word and many of the persons most concern'd will least understand it Much after this fashion did old Eli chide his sons who had got an ill-favour'd trick to fetch up with a new invented fork part of the sacrifice out of the Caldron and cheat the people of the fat of their offerings What says the old father to his sons for this Quare facitis res hujusmodi c. Nolite filii mei non enim est bona fama quam ego audio ut transgredi faciatis populum Domini And almost thus far you seem angry too but is this enough Have you sufficiently contributed to the secure disparaging such exorbitances like a free and zealous Divine should you not have branded 'em particularly and smartly as being not only sure even in your own judgment not good but abominable detestable let any indifferent person seriously consider the intolerable flattering promises unwarrantably and scandalously applyd to certain praiers and other actions good enough of themselves but incredibly abused by such false and covetous Merchants and he will find you might have seasonably applyd a little sharper correction then what imports they are only in strict account not justifiable This I confess is not our direct Controversy yet it is more censurable only in degree then an eager inviting of people to bestow alms with promise of a speedy delivery out of Purgatory especially if they name the day as I think some priviledg'd Altars venture to do Notes on the twelfth Chapter IN which you justly say it is a most uncertain thing to determin of souls in Purgatory how long they stay there and that indeed there is neither reason nor revelation to conduct us in that speculation which is very true and I shall seek to confirm it by the testimony of the Church of Rome or at least of the Pope who takes the granting of Indulgences to be his personall priviledge If we believe the Author of the Roman History of Trent who seems to speak it out of good warrant I give you the words of an Author writing and printing in Rome not full twenty years since and therefore who credibly was an eye-witness of what he wrote Audiatur saith he verborum formula qua utuntur Romani Pontifices in suis de liberandis Animabus concessionibus and annexeth for the form these words Nos divina misericordia confisi concedimus ut quotiescumque sacerdos in tali loco Missam celebraverit pro liberatione unius animae in Purgatorio existentis quae per charitatem Deo unita ab hac luce decessit piorum suffragiis juvari meruit ipsa anima quantum Divinae bonitati placuerit opportunis de thesauris Ecclesiae subsidiis adjuta peccatorum remissionem consequatur de poenis Purgatoriis facilius valeat ad coelestem patriam pervenire Where you see that notwithstanding a soul enjoys the priviledge granted to such Altars she may stay in Purgatory till doomsday And that none of our opinion have reason to abstain from the use of priledg'd Altars and the like Indulgences for the dead or do well if they speak against them but ought to cry out against the abuse of those who perswade innocent souls of strange vertues which were never granted them so delude them with hopes for which they have no ground Nevertheless I desire you to reflect that if this be the profession of the Roman Church concerning the souls which seem to have an eminent favour degree in Christs merits and the prayers of the universall Church that it can be no greater in respect of those souls which have only the private intercession of friends whence we may gather that such mediations make them not come sooner then other souls but easilier to the Kingdom of heaven I wonder also that you being neer a Jubilate Divine should make difficulty to censure an opinion what is there more of difficulty in censuring then in approving nay then in determining a case to be Usury or Simony Are there not divers kinds of censuring Some juridical and they suppose superiority Some unappealable and they suppose supremacy Some only rationall and they need no more then Equality and with reference to this last branch you and I may freely censure or approve of one anothers sayings as we see cause In this very Chapter do not you charge my opinion with Novelty and consequently with falshood which surely is a kinde of censure and as for the consequence it self I shall easily admit it in Faith but not in Opinions which I conconceive may possibly be new and true too I have no more to note concerning your Book unless I should mark that you seem to make Participem esse fidei Romanae all one with submitting to the decisions of Rome but that concerns not our present question yet I desire you would be more rigorous in your interpretations that so the credit of your citations may be the greater Only three things come into my mind which I forgot to note in their proper places one should have been about the middle of your fourth Chapter where you would escape the Argument drawn from the frequent mention of the Day of Judgment in the Roman Liturgy by saying 't was partly that the dead might receive comfort before the last terrible day neither can the words have any other sense Pray read over the sequentia again Can these words Ne me perdas illa die inter oves locum praesta c. Confutatis maledictis flammis acribus addictis voca me cum benedictis c. have no other sense but delivery before the day of Judgement Joyn to these the prayers of the Breviary Cum veneris in novissimo die dum veneris indicare seculum per ignem libera me Domine de morte eterna in die illa tremenda c. And indeed all over the offices for the dead Can none of these words have any other sense then release before the day of Judgement Is it possible the Churches prayers should be thus cross interpreted that where we expresly pray for delivery in the day of Judgment you should think we must necessarily mean before the day of Judgment Another note which I omitted concerns your first Chapter where you treated of Revelations For farther answer to which I would offer you a notable example of no less a Person then Gregory the ninth who considering the ill success of the designs he had undertaken at the instance of Peter of Arragon and upon the assurances of St. Bridget and St.