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sense_n believe_v church_n faith_n 5,993 5 6.0238 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41784 Presumption no proof, or, Mr. Petto's arguments for infant-baptism considered and answered and infants interest in the convenant of grace without baptism asserted and maintained : whereunto is prefixed an answer to two questions propounded by Mr. Firmin about infants church-membership and baptism / by Thomas Grantham. Grantham, Thomas, 1634-1692. 1687 (1687) Wing G1542; ESTC R27161 38,572 48

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example_n of_o christ_n who_o when_o little_a child_n be_v bring_v to_o he_o for_o prayer_n do_v not_o refuse_v but_o perform_v it_o and_o will_v that_o little_a child_n be_v bring_v to_o he_o and_o according_o we_o do_v dedicate_v our_o child_n to_o he_o from_o the_o womb_n according_a to_o our_o capacity_n 2._o little_a child_n be_v also_o by_o this_o mean_n i._n e._n of_o their_o parent_n conversion_n under_o the_o blessing_n of_o a_o early_a education_n in_o the_o christian_a religion_n by_o which_o mean_v through_o god_n blessing_n i_o have_v know_v some_o who_o be_v not_o sprinkle_v in_o infancy_n attain_v to_o more_o true_a knowledge_n of_o christianity_n and_o experience_n of_o the_o work_n of_o grace_n so_o far_o as_o man_n may_v judge_n at_o 7_o or_o 8_o year_n of_o age_n than_o multitude_n of_o those_o who_o be_v sprinkle_v in_o their_o infancy_n have_v attain_v at_o the_o age_n of_o 70_o or_o 80_o year_n 3._o our_o gracious_a god_n by_o jesus_n christ_n have_v leave_v we_o a_o open_a declaration_n that_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n belong_v to_o infant_n in_o which_o declaration_n he_o have_v not_o except_v so_o much_o as_o one_o of_o they_o this_o be_v more_o than_o circumcision_n and_o more_o clear_a than_o any_o thing_n before_o declare_v concern_v infant_n though_o there_o be_v evidence_n of_o god_n love_n to_o they_o before_o from_o all_o which_o you_o may_v see_v that_o god_n have_v leave_v we_o in_o the_o room_n of_o circumcision_n a_o far_o more_o excellent_a testimony_n of_o his_o save_a pleasure_n concern_v infant_n than_o that_o be_v or_o any_o legal_a rite_n whatsoever_o as_o for_o mr._n baxter_n argument_n which_o you_o borrow_v it_o be_v answer_v in_o what_o be_v say_v to_o your_o question_n howbeit_o i_o have_v more_o particular_o answer_v it_o in_o my_o examination_n of_o no_o less_o than_o five_o hundred_o query_n gather_v by_o one_o of_o his_o admirer_n out_o of_o his_o voluminous_a work_n all_o which_o have_v be_v redargue_v by_o a_o proportionable_a number_n of_o anti-query_n in_o which_o all_o his_o device_n for_o poedorantism_n be_v in_o some_o measure_n discover_v to_o be_v but_o the_o cunning_a craftiness_n of_o human_a subtlety_n or_o a_o copious_a brain_n of_o who_o book_n on_o this_o subject_a and_o dr._n hammonds_n also_o take_v thus_o the_o judgement_n of_o a_o learned_a doctor_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n now_o live_v i_o have_v see_v what_o my_o learned_a and_o worthy_a friend_n dr._n hammond_n mr._n baxter_n and_o other_o say_v in_o defence_n of_o infant_n baptism_n and_o must_v confess_v i_o do_v not_o a_o little_a wonder_n that_o man_n of_o so_o great_a part_n shall_v say_v so_o much_o to_o so_o little_a purpose_n for_o i_o have_v not_o yet_o see_v any_o thing_n like_o a_o argument_n for_o it_o dr._n barlow_v letter_n to_o mr._n tomb_n thus_o much_o in_o answer_n to_o your_o question_n see_v more_o in_o the_o last_o part._n one_o thing_n i_o take_v special_a notice_n of_o in_o your_o discourse_n of_o infant_n you_o tie_v up_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o infant_n that_o shall_v be_v save_v to_o their_o have_a faith_n some_o way_n yea_o you_o say_v else_o they_o must_v all_o perish_v p._n 90._o and_o you_o allow_v faith_n to_o no_o more_o infant_n than_o be_v elect_v in_o your_o seem_v of_o election_n the_o rest_n of_o infant_n even_o of_o believe_v parent_n be_v reprobate_a and_o damn_a for_o all_o the_o noise_n which_o you_o make_v of_o their_o covenant-interest_n church-membership_n holiness_n etc._n etc._n miserable_a infant_n if_o there_o be_v none_o to_o plead_v your_o cause_n better_o than_o mr._n firmin_n have_v do_v it_o be_v uncertain_a whether_o so_o much_o as_o one_o of_o you_o shall_v be_v save_v out_o of_o a_o thousand_o and_o whilst_o his_o book_n may_v cause_v many_o weak_a reader_n to_o think_v that_o circumcision_n do_v and_o that_o infant-baptism_n do_v great_a thing_n towards_o their_o saltion_n it_o be_v evident_a he_o can_v believe_v no_o such_o thing_n himself_o for_o if_o they_o be_v elect_v save_v they_o shall_v be_v though_o they_o be_v not_o baptize_v and_o for_o those_o infant_n which_o be_v reprobate_v damn_a they_o must_v be_v though_o they_o be_v baptize_v he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o make_v baptism_n of_o infant_n to_o be_v of_o that_o concernment_n which_o you_o may_v imagine_v from_o some_o passage_n in_o he_o that_o he_o plain_o tell_v you_o p._n 20._o that_o he_o do_v not_o think_v that_o a_o sound_a believer_n die_v without_o baptism_n shall_v be_v damn_v and_o then_o how_o a_o innocent_a infant_n die_v without_o baptism_n shall_v be_v damn_v be_v not_o easy_a to_o be_v imagine_v but_o by_o his_o favour_n if_o such_o a_o believer_n have_v opportunity_n to_o be_v baptize_v and_o neglect_v his_o baptism_n he_o will_v hardly_o pass_v for_o a_o sound_a believer_n in_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n because_o in_o this_o thing_n he_o believe_v not_o his_o lord_n who_o tell_v he_o thus_o it_o become_v we_o to_o fulfil_v all_o righteousness_n mat._n 3._o 15._o deut._n 1._o 33._o act._n 3._o 22_o 23._o and_o i_o must_v in_o faithfulness_n tell_v mr._n firmin_n that_o such_o a_o sound_a believer_n i_o take_v he_o to_o be_v for_o after_o all_o the_o improvement_n which_o he_o tell_v we_o he_o have_v make_v of_o his_o father_n covenant_n which_o will_v make_v a_o well_o man_n sick_a even_o to_o see_v what_o pitiful_a work_n he_o make_v with_o it_o pag._n 68_o 69_o 70_o 71._o for_o after_o all_o his_o shift_a from_o post_n to_o pillar_n he_o only_o get_v stomach_n to_o reject_v the_o counsel_n of_o god_n against_o himself_o be_v not_o baptize_v with_o the_o baptism_n of_o repentance_n for_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n as_o some_o of_o the_o learned_a have_v do_v before_o he_o luk._n 7._o 30._o and_o see_v it_o be_v the_o know_a practice_n of_o infant-sprinklers_a to_o sprinkle_v they_o when_o they_o be_v fast_o asleep_a and_o it_o be_v odds_o but_o mr._n firmin_n be_v asleep_a when_o he_o be_v sprinkle_v and_o cross_v and_o therein_o these_o wonderful_a thing_n do_v which_o he_o talk_v of_o without_o scripture_n or_o reason_n to_o warrant_v his_o conceit_n i_o desire_v to_o know_v of_o he_o what_o ground_n any_o man_n have_v his_o parent_n or_o himself_o to_o baptise_v any_o person_n when_o they_o be_v asleep_o this_o be_v no_o idle_a enquiry_n but_o call_v for_o the_o consideration_n of_o all_o serious_a christian_n in_o these_o and_o the_o follow_a page_n you_o will_v find_v this_o to_o be_v mr._n firmin_n sense_n that_o the_o covenant_n as_o it_o concern_v infant_n have_v two_o part_n the_o inward_a and_o the_o outward_a that_o some_o infant_n have_v the_o outward_a part_n who_o be_v not_o concern_v in_o the_o inward_a part_n and_o that_o the_o first_o sort_n of_o infant_n can_v fall_v but_o the_o rest_n may_v and_o shall_v fall_v because_o they_o have_v not_o seminal_a faith_n and_o regeneration_n but_o only_o reputative_a faith._n and_o yet_o sure_a this_o be_v not_o the_o infant_n fault_n for_o it_o can_v not_o choose_v of_o what_o seed_n it_o shall_v be_v produce_v and_o what_o the_o seminal_a faith_n be_v i_o suppose_v mr._n firmin_n may_v know_v as_o much_o as_o those_o infant_n do_v who_o he_o suppose_v to_o have_v it_o dr._n hammond_n be_v a_o great_a man_n for_o infant-sprinkling_a yet_o he_o reject_v this_o fable_n of_o mr._n firmin_n for_o he_o tell_v we_o he_o must_v confess_v that_o faith_n be_v so_o necessary_o found_v in_o understanding_n that_o he_o which_o have_v not_o understanding_n can_v have_v faith._n and_o dr._n taylor_n confess_v whether_o infant_n have_v faith_n be_v a_o question_n to_o be_v dispute_v by_o those_o who_o care_v not_o how_o much_o they_o affirm_v and_o how_o little_o th●y_v prove_v this_o damn_v all_o in●●●●●_n which_o have_v not_o faith_n i_o take_v to_o be_v a_o very_a damnable_a doctrine_n because_o it_o represent_v god_n to_o be_v so_o cruel_a as_o to_o make_v million_o 〈◊〉_d infant_n on_o purpose_n to_o send_v they_o to_o hell_n who_o can_v by_o no_o mean_n help_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d want_n of_o faith._n what_o man_n will_v kill_v his_o newborn_a child_n because_o it_o do_v not_o call_v he_o father_n as_o soon_o as_o it_o be_v bear_v and_o shall_v mortal_a man_n be_v more_o just_a than_o god_n shall_v man_n be_v more_o righteous_a than_o his_o maker_n i_o be_o ashamed_a of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o presbyterian_o and_o independent_o which_o as_o i_o be_o inform_v teach_v that_o infant_n be_v yell_v in_o hell_n yea_o that_o infant_n of_o a_o span_n long_o be_v yell_v in_o hell._n i_o be_o also_o ashamed_a of_o mr._n firmin_n conceit_n pag._n 90._o where_o from_o dr._n ames_n he_o will_v have_v we_o believe_v that_o a_o infant_n be_v as_o capable_a of_o a_o passive_a reception_n of_o
deny_v but_o when_o i_o behold_v the_o miserable_a shift_n you_o be_v put_v to_o to_o prove_v infant_n disciple_n according_a to_o christ_n commission_n matth._n 28._o 19_o i_o do_v with_o the_o great_a admiration_n bewail_v your_o unhappiness_n and_o can_v tell_v how_o to_o imagine_v that_o any_o wise_a man_n among_o you_o do_v real_o believe_v yourselves_o in_o what_o you_o say_v on_o that_o account_n and_o sure_o i_o be_o the_o papist_n have_v as_o strong_a a_o pretence_n from_o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la for_o their_o transubstantiation_n as_o you_o have_v from_o matheteusaté_fw-fr for_o infant-discipleship_a and_o to_o speak_v free_o they_o be_v both_o incredible_a thing_n all_o sense_n and_o experience_n militate_v equal_o against_o both_o opinion_n if_o they_o be_v truth_n it_o must_v be_v because_o they_o be_v both_o miracle_n but_o then_o they_o want_v the_o character_n of_o true_a miracle_n for_o they_o be_v no_o way_n demonstrable_a that_o there_o be_v any_o miracle_n at_o all_o in_o either_o of_o they_o we_o be_v only_o tell_v that_o they_o be_v so_o i._n e._n that_o the_o bread_n in_o the_o eucharist_n be_v real_a flesh_n that_o the_o child_n in_o your_o rantism_n be_v bear_v again_o of_o water_n and_o spirit_n make_v a_o disciple_n of_o christ_n etc._n etc._n but_o no_o mortal_a man_n know_v any_o of_o these_o thing_n to_o be_v true_a and_o what_o be_v it_o that_o we_o may_v not_o believe_v if_o we_o must_v believe_v such_o thing_n as_o these_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a purgatory_n fire_n etc._n etc._n will_v come_v upon_o we_o arm_v with_o our_o own_o argument_n if_o we_o admit_v the_o former_a and_o to_o conclude_v as_o to_o your_o first_o argument_n give_v i_o leave_v to_o say_v if_o your_o hearer_n can_v receive_v your_o dictate_v and_o ill-proved_a affirmation_n i_o know_v not_o but_o they_o may_v believe_v you_o in_o whatsoever_o you_o will_v be_v please_v to_o tell_v they_o what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o antiquity_n of_o infant-baptism_n i_o shall_v here_o consider_v in_o few_o word_n for_o since_o you_o insist_v only_o upon_o cyprian_n testimony_n who_o ground_n for_o infant-baptism_n you_o confess_v to_o be_v unsound_a i_o need_v say_v little_a here_o that_o which_o be_v build_v upon_o bad_a principle_n then_o by_o he_o and_o stand_v upon_o as_o unsound_a one_o now_o by_o you_o do_v gain_v nothing_o by_o either_o of_o you_o but_o will_v you_o know_v that_o it_o be_v plain_o grant_v by_o some_o of_o the_o most_o learned_a of_o your_o way_n that_o there_o be_v neither_o precept_n nor_o practice_n in_o scripture_n for_o infant-baptism_n here_o it_o want_v the_o best_a antiquity_n nor_o any_o just_a evidence_n for_o it_o for_o about_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ._n yet_o it_o come_v in_o upon_o a_o gross_a mistake_n of_o the_o scripture_n that_o in_o what_o mr._n baxter_n and_o dr._n hammond_n have_v say_v for_o it_o there_o be_v nothing_o that_o look_v like_o a_o argument_n dr._n barlow_n this_o be_v enough_o at_o present_a part_n ii_o wherein_o be_v consider_v mr._n petto_n second_o argument_n which_o he_o deliver_v in_o these_o word_n if_o some_o infant_n be_v visible_o or_o external_o in_o the_o covenant_n which_o god_n make_v with_o abraham_n then_o by_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n they_o be_v to_o be_v baptize_v but_o some_o infant_n be_v visible_o or_o external_o in_o the_o covenant_n which_o god_n make_v with_o abraham_n therefore_o by_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n they_o be_v to_o be_v baptize_v before_o i_o answer_v this_o argument_n i_o shall_v consider_v a_o few_o thing_n and_o 1._o that_o as_o mr._n petto_n grant_v god_n make_v the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n with_o abraham_n twenty_o four_o year_n before_o he_o give_v he_o the_o covenant_n of_o circumcision_n see_v gen._n 12._o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4._o with_o 17._o 24._o so_o that_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n have_v no_o external_a sign_n as_o it_o be_v make_v with_o abraham_n gen._n 12._o but_o when_o god_n be_v please_v to_o add_v to_o this_o covenant_n the_o promise_n of_o the_o land_n of_o canaan_n etc._n etc._n then_o it_o be_v that_o he_o give_v he_o the_o law_n of_o circumcision_n and_o these_o additional_a part_n i_o take_v to_o be_v most_o proper_o if_o not_o only_o that_o which_o be_v the_o covenant_n of_o circumcision_n 2._o it_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v that_o abraham_n be_v not_o the_o only_a person_n in_o the_o world_n which_o be_v under_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n at_o this_o time_n when_o god_n make_v covenant_n with_o abraham_n gen._n 17._o it_o be_v observe_v by_o some_o that_o salah_n live_v after_o the_o covenant_n of_o circumcision_n be_v make_v about_o 50_o year_n arphaxad_v live_v thirteen_o year_n after_o and_o that_o heber_n live_v till_o jacob_n be_v about_o twenty_o year_n old_a which_o be_v long_o after_o abraham_n die_v now_o these_o with_o melchisedeck_v if_o he_o be_v not_o one_o of_o these_o with_o many_o other_o among_o who_o be_v just_a lot_n be_v not_o only_o true_a worshipper_n of_o god_n according_a to_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n but_o some_o of_o they_o superior_a to_o abraham_n himself_o for_o melchisedeck_v bless_v abraham_n be_v the_o king_n of_o salem_n and_o priest_n of_o the_o most_o high_a god._n 3._o and_o as_o neither_o these_o nor_o their_o posterity_n be_v liable_a to_o any_o loss_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n by_o their_o not_o be_v circumcise_v after_o the_o manner_n of_o abraham_n so_o neither_o job_n nor_o other_o worthy_a man_n that_o be_v not_o of_o the_o seed_n of_o abraham_n according_a to_o the_o flesh_n have_v any_o obligation_n to_o circumcision_n from_o whence_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o god_n intend_v not_o the_o sign_n of_o circumcision_n to_o belong_v to_o person_n as_o they_o be_v in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n but_o that_o it_o be_v appropriate_a for_o some_o great_a end_n respect_v a_o special_a preservation_n to_o the_o family_n of_o abraham_n as_o of_o the_o kindred_n from_o who_o christ_n shall_v proceed_v and_o with_o who_o he_o will_v presence_n himself_o in_o a_o land_n of_o promise_n by_o a_o distinct_a way_n of_o worship_n from_o all_o nation_n who_o at_o that_o time_n be_v fall_v very_o fast_o into_o idolatry_n 4._o and_o beside_o this_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o this_o sign_n of_o circumcision_n be_v by_o god_n appointment_n to_o be_v affix_v to_o some_o to_o who_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n may_v seem_v to_o have_v the_o least_o extent_n or_o at_o least_o they_o do_v forfeit_v all_o interest_n in_o it_o this_o be_v the_o case_n of_o ishmael_n and_o esau_n who_o prove_v very_o wicked_a and_o it_o be_v to_o be_v question_v whether_o the_o bondman_n or_o slave_n in_o israel_n have_v that_o ceremony_n as_o a_o badge_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n man_n may_v talk_v high_a of_o these_o thing_n and_o prove_v little_a or_o whether_o circumcision_n be_v a_o seal_n of_o the_o righteousness_n of_o faith_n to_o any_o person_n in_o the_o world_n save_v to_o abraham_n and_o in_o what_o sense_n it_o be_v so_o to_o he_o who_o have_v so_o many_o thing_n peculiar_a to_o he_o be_v not_o easy_a to_o be_v demonstrate_v 5._o our_o practice_n in_o religious_a institutes_n be_v not_o to_o be_v gather_v from_o such_o uncertain_a conjecture_n but_o to_o stand_v upon_o the_o clear_a direction_n of_o the_o instituter_n or_o the_o practice_n of_o such_o as_o god_n have_v think_v fit_a to_o make_v precedent_n to_o we_o and_o it_o be_v certain_a we_o be_v not_o at_o all_o concern_v in_o the_o law_n of_o circumcision_n and_o for_o we_o to_o take_v our_o rule_n thence_o for_o the_o subject_n of_o baptism_n be_v very_o childish_a and_o reflect_v dishonour_n upon_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n who_o never_o send_v we_o to_o learn_v infant-baptism_n from_o infant-circumcision_n nor_o indeed_o have_v they_o teach_v it_o at_o all_o these_o thing_n premise_v i_o answer_v to_o the_o argument_n by_o these_o ensue_a distinction_n 1._o if_o by_o covenant_n mr._n p._n mean_v the_o covenant_n of_o circumcision_n as_o he_o do_v for_o he_o quote_v gen._n 7._o 9_o 10_o 11._o to_o prove_v his_o assumption_n and_o by_o some_o infant_n he_o mean_v the_o infant_n of_o christian_n as_o such_o as_o that_o be_v his_o meaning_n then_o i_o deny_v his_o minor._n 2._o or_o if_o by_o covenant_n he_o mean_v that_o covenant_n of_o grace_n gen._n 12._o distinct_a from_o the_o covenant_n of_o circumcision_n and_o by_o some_o infant_n be_v in_o this_o covenant_n external_o he_o mean_v infant_n be_v concern_v in_o the_o outward_a profession_n or_o practice_n of_o worship_n still_o i_o deny_v the_o minor_a for_o god_n by_o that_o covenant_n of_o grace_n gen._n 12._o never_o require_v the_o performance_n of_o such_o duty_n of_o infant_n 3._o if_o by_o covenant_n he_o mean_v the_o gracious_a pardon_n of_o