Governâ—uâ—s of a Christian society the Priviledge of Commanding in things which God hath nâ—t alâ— ready determined by his own Law We plead for the respect and reverence which is due to the Lawful constitutiâ—ns oâ— the Church whereof we are members and 〈◊〉 the just Authority of the Guides it in the exercise of that power which is committed to the Governours of it as the successours of the Apostles in their care of the Christian Church although not in their Infallibility 6. We allow a very great Authority to the Guides of the Catholick Church in the best times of Christianity and look upon the concurrent sense of Antiquity as an excellent means to understand the mind of Scripture in places otherwise doubtful and obscure We prosess a great Reverence to the Ancient Fathers of the Church but Especially when assembled in free and General Councils We reject the ancient heresies condemned in them which we the rather believe to be against the Scripture because so ancient so wise and so great persons did deliver the contrary doctrine not only to be the sense of the Church in their own time but ever since the Apostles Nay we reject nothing that can be proved by an universal Tradition from the Apostolical times downwards but we have so great an opinion of the Wisdom and Piety of those excellent Guides of the Church in the Primitive times that we see no reason to have those things forced upon us now which we offer to prove to be contrary to their doctrine and practice So that the controversy between us is not about the Authority of the Guides of the Church but whether the Guides of the Apostolical and Primitive times ought not to have greater Authority over us than those of the present Church in things wherein they contradict each other This is the true State of the Controversy between us and all the clamours of rejecting the Authority of Church Guides are vain and impertinent But we profess to yield greater reverence and submission of mind to Christ and his Apostles than to any Guides of the Church ever since we are sure they spake by an Infallible Spirit and where they have determined matters of Faith or practice we look upon it as arrogance and presumption in any others to alter what they have declared And for the Ages since we have a much gâ—eater esteem for those neaâ—est the Apostolical times and so downwards till Ignorance Ambition and private Interests sway'd too much among those who were called the Guides of the Church And that by the confession of those who were members of it at the same time which makes us not to wonder that such corruptions of doctrine and practice should then come in but we do justly wonder at the sincerity of those who would not have them reformed and taken away 7. In matters imposed upon us to believe or practise which are repugnant to plain commands of Scripture or the Evidence offense or the grounds of Christian Religion we assert that no Authority of the present Guides of a Church is to overrule our faith or practice For there are some things so plain that no Man will be guided by anothers opinion in them If any Philosopher did think his Authority ought to overrule an Ignorant Mans opinion in saying the snow which he saw to be white was not so I would fain know whether that Man did better to believe his eyes or the prudent experienc'd Philosopher I am certain if I destroy the Evidence of sense I must overthrow the grounds of Christian Religion and I am as certain if I believe that not to be bread which my senses tell me is so I must destroy the greatest Evidence of sense and which is fitter for me to reject that Evidence which assures my Christianity to me or that Authority which by its impositions on my faith overthrows the certainty of sense We do not say that we are to reject any doctrine delivered in Scripture which concerns a Being infinitely above our understanding because we cannot comprehend all things contained in it but in matters lyable to sense and the proper objects of it we must beg pardon if we prefer the grounds of our common Christianity before a novel and monstrous figment hatched in the times of Ignorance and Barbarism foster'd by faction and imposed by Tyranny We find no command so plain in Scripture that we must believe the Guides of the Church in all they deliver as there is that we must not worship Images that we must pray with understanding that we must keep to our Saviours Institution of the Lords supper but if any Guides of a Church pretend to an Authority to evacuate the force of these Laws we do not so much reject their Authority as prefer Gods above them Doth that Man destroy the authority of Parents that refuses to obey them when they Command him to commit Treason That is our case in this matter supposing such Guides of a Church which otherwise we are bound to obey if they require things contrary to a direct Command of God must we prefer their Guidance before Gods If they can prove us mistaken we yield but till then the Question is not whether the Guides of the Church must be submitted to rather than our own reason but whether Gods authority or theirs must be obeyed And I would gladly know whether there be not some Points of faith and some parts of our duty so plain that no Church-Authority determining the contrary ought to be obey'd 8. No absolute submission can be due to those Guides of a Church who have opposed and contradicted each other and condemned one anâ—ther for errour and hereâ—y For then in case of absolute submission a Man must yield his assent to contradictions and for the same reason that he is to be a Catholick at one time he must be a heretick at another I hope the Guides of the present Church pretend to no more infallibility and Authority than their predecessours in the same Capacity with themselves have had and we say they have contradicted the sense of those before them in the matters in dispute between us Yet that is not the thing I now insist upon but that these Guides of the Church have declared each other to be fallible by condemning their opinions and practices and by that means have made it necessary for men to believe those not to be infallible unless both parts of a contradiction may be infallibly true Suppose a Man living in the times of the prevalency of Arrianism when almost all the Guides of the Church declared in favour of it when several great Councils opposed and contradicted that of Nice when Pope Liberius did subscribe the Sirmian confession and Communicated with the Arrians what advice would N. O. give such a one if he must not exercise his own Judgement and compare both the doctrines by the rule of Scriptures must he follow the present Guides even the Pope himself Then he must
remain unshaken But saith N. O. the Scripture is obscure in some great and important points because S. Peter saith that men unlearned and unstable though it may be diligent enough wrested some places of Scriptures hard to be understood to their own destruction But doth S. Peter say that the Scriptures are so hard to be understood that sober and devout minds cannot learn therein what is necessary to their Salvation This had been indeed to their purpose but it is far enough from St. Peters He only saith that in St. Pauls Epistles there are some difficult passages which men that wanted judgement and constancy and it may be diligence too were ready to pervert to their own mischief But if there be such difficulties is there nothing plain and easy if bad men may pervert them may noâ— good men make a good use of them If some may destroy themselves by their own weakness and folly may not others be saved by their diligence and care If it were proved by N. O. that St. Peter charged all this upoâ— them for want of adhering to their Guides that would approach nearer his business but if St. Peter had intended any such thing as N. O. insinuates what fairer opportunity had there been of preventing this Instability in others by telling them that God had appointed infallible Guides in his Church to prevent such abuses of Scripture and that so long as they adhered to them they were safe but there is not the least word in St. Peter to this purpose when it had been most necessâ—ry to have given such advice but he only bids them have a care of imitating the inconstancy of such wicked men and grow in the grace and knowledge of Iesus Christ. If on so fair and just an occasion offered St. Peter himself whom they believe to have been Head of the Church at that time and at Rome at the writing of this Epistle doth wholly omit referring men in the sense of obscure places to Infallible Guides what can we else infer but that St. Peter knew of no such appointment of Christ or thought no such thing of necessity for his Church For if he had such was his care and faithfulness he would never have omitted so necessary a thing if the Salvation of mens souls had depended upon it If it be not then necessary to mens Salvation to have an infallible interpretation of doubtful places for what other end can it become necessary Is it that without this the Churches peace cannot be preserved because Controversies arising in the Church no issue can be put to them unless there be an infallible Iudge to determine which is the true sence of Scripture For it is impossible That Scripture it self should be judge because the Controversy is about the sense of Scripture So that either there is no way left to determine Controversies or there must be an infallible judge to deliver the sense of Scripture in â—oubtful places This is the force of all that I know can be said in this matter to which I answer 1. The strength of this argument depends upon the supposition of the necessity of determining Controversies in Religion by a living Judge who must pronounce sentence between the parties in 〈◊〉 Which supposition how plausible soever it seems is not built on any sufficient foâ—ndation of Scripture or Reason For the weakness of humane understanding the power of Interest and passion and the ambiâ—â—ity of words are as apt to beget disputes in Religion as in any other things so that we have 〈◊〉 caâ—se at all to wonder that there should happen to be Controversies among men about there 〈◊〉 when we see them daily happen about the Laws of every Country The only Question now is whether as the necessities of people have made it necessary that there should not only be Laws but Judges who should be as the most equal Arbitrators to put an end to such differences as may happen among men about matters of Right and Law it be thus in Religion too And this Question is plainly about a matter of Fact i.e. whether Christ hath appointed such Judges in all Ages who are to determine all emergent Controversies about the difficult places of his Law And in this case we think it is all the reason in the World that they who Affirm should Prove especially when they Affirm a matter of their own Right and challenge a submission from others on the Account of it We desire them who challenge to be our infallible Guides that they would shew their Commission and produce their Patent For as we are ready to yield obedience if they crave it so we think it Treason and Tyranny in them to usurp it if they have it not And it is to no purpose to talk of the Benefits that would come to the world by an infallible Judge of Controversies unless they first prove that there is one But we must not allow men to prove things to be meerly because they think it fitting they should be for that is to make themselves Wiser than Christ and rather to tell him what he should have done than prove what he hath done What if Christ having provided for the necessaries of Salvation by a clear Revelation should leave other things in the dark to exercise the Wits of some and the Charity of others What if he thought it sufficient to oblige men to the greatest honesty and Integrity in knowing and doing the Will of God and hath promised to pass by the errours and failings men are subject to barely as men What if he foresaw this matter of ending Controversies would be an occasion of raising one of the greatest in the Christian World and become a pretence of the most intolerable Tyranny over the minds of men And therefore what if he thought it reasonable to leave the failings of mens understandings and lives upon the same terms so as to give sufficient means to prevent either but not effectually to hinder men from falling into either of them What if the nature of Religion will not bear such a determination of Controversies as civil matters will because civil matters concern the right and wrong of particular persons in which it is not the sentence of the Judge so much as the Civil force whereby it is backed which puts an end to the dispute but in matters of Religion the ending Controversies can be no effect of force and power but of reason and conviction of Conscience and all the pretended infallibility in the World can never satisfy my mind unless I be first assured of that infallibility In all civil causes it is agreed on both sides that such Judges are appointed to determine cases of Law and on the supposition of this men proceed to tryal before them but in our case this is the main thing in dispute and he that pretends to be the Judge is the most accused partie and what reason can there be that only on the pretence of greater
very next Chapter urges this as the Consequence of it that having truth for our Rule and so plain Testimony of God men ought not to perplex themselves with doubtful Questions concerning God but grow in the love of him who hath done and doth so great things for us and never fall off from that knowledge which is most clearly revealed And we ought to be content with what is clearly made known in the Scriptures because they are perfect as coming from the wâ—rd and Spirit of God And we need 〈◊〉 â—onder if there be many things in Religion above our understandings since there are so in natural things which are daily seen by us as in the nature of Birds Water Air Meteors c. of which we may talk much but only God knows what the truth is Therefore why should we think much if it be so in Religion too wherein are some things we may understand and others we must leave to God and if we do so we shall keep our faith without danger And all Scripture being agreeable to it self the dark places must be understood in a way most suitable to the sense of the plain 3. The sense they gave of Scripture was contrary to the Doctrine of faith received by all true Christians from the beginning which he calls the unmoveable rule of faith received in Baptism and which the Church dispersed over the Earth did equally receive in all places with a wonderful consent For although the places and languages be never so distant or different from each other yet the faith is the very same as there is one Sun which inlightens the whole World which faith none did enlarge or diminish And after having shewn the great absurdities of the Doctrines of the Enemies of this faith in his first and second Books in the beginning of the third he shews that the Apostles did fully understand the mind of Christ that they preached the same Doctrine which the Church received and which after their preaching it was committed to writing by the Will of God in the Scriptures to be the pillar and ground of Faith Which was the true reason why the Hereticks did go about to disparage the Scriptures because they were condemned by them therefore they would not allow them sufficient Authority and charged them with contradictions and so great obscurity that the truth could not be found in them without the help of Tradition which they accounted the key to unlock all the difficulties of Scripture And was not to be sought for in Writings but was delivered down from hand to hand for which cause St. Paul said we speak wisdom among them that are perfect Which wisdom they pretended to be among themselves On this account the matter of Tradition came first into dispute in the Christian Church And Irenaeus appeals to the most eminent Churches and Especially that of Rome because of the great resort of Christians thither whether any such tradition was ever received among them and all the Churches of Asia received the same faith from the Apostles and knew of no such Tradition as the Valentinians pretended to and there was no reason to think that so many Churches founded by the Apostles or Christ should be ignorant of such a tradition and supposing no Scriptures at all had been written by the Apostles we must then have followed the Tradition of the most ancient and Apostolical Churches and even the most Barbarous nations that had embraced Christianity without any Writings yet fully agreed with other Churches in the Doctrine of Faith for that is it he means by the rule of faith viz. a summary comprehension of the Doctrine received among Christians such as the Creed is mentioned by Irenaeus and afterwards he speaks of the Rule of the Valentinians in opposition to that of the sound Christians From hence Irenaeus proceeds to confute the Doctrine of the Valentinians by Scripture and Reason in the third fourth and fifth Books All which ways of finding out the sense of Scripture in doubtful places we allow of and approve and are always ready to appeal to them in any of the matters controverted between us and the Church of Rome But Irenaeus knew nothing of any Infallible Judge to determine the sense of Scripture for if he had it would have been very strange he should have gone so much the farthest way about when he might so easily have told the Valentinians that God had entrusted the Guides of his Church especially at Rome with the faculty of interpreting Scripture and that all men were bound to believe that to be the sense of it which they declared and no other But men must be pardoned if they do not write that which never entred into their Heads After Irenaeus Tertullian sets himself the most to dispute against those who opposed the Faith of the Church and the method he takes in his Boo of Praescription of Hereticks is this 1. That there must be a certain unalterable Rule of Faith For he that believes doth not only suppose sufficient grounds for his faith but bounds that are set to it and therefore there is no need of further search since the Gospel is revealed This he speaks to take away the pretence of the Seekers of those days who were always crying seek and ye shall find to which he replys that we are to consider not the bare words but the reason of them And in the first place we are to suppose this that there is one certain and fixed Doctrine delivered by Christ which all nations are bound to believe and therefore to seek that when they have found they may believe it Therefore all our enquiries are to be confined within that compass what that Doctrine was which Christ delivered for otherwise there will be no end of seeking 2. He shews what this Rule of Faith is by repeating the Articles of the Ancient Creed which he saith was universally received among true Christians and disputed by none but Hereticks Which Rule of Faith being embraced then he saith a liberty is allowed for other enquiries in doubtful or obscure matters For faith lyes in the Rule but other things were matters of skill and curiosity and it is faith which saves men and not their skill in expounding Scriptures and while men keep themselves within that Rule they are safe enough for to know nothing beyond it is to know all 3. But they pretend Scripture for what they deliver and by that means unsettle the minds of many To this he answers several ways 1. That such persons as those were ought not to be admitted to a dispute concerning the sense of Scripture because they rather deserved to be censured than disputed for bringing such new heresies into the Church but chiefly because it was to no purpose to dispute with them about the sense of Scripture who received what Scriptures they pleased themselves and added and took away as they
Testimonies of Scripture it must be made manifest to be the sense by clear Evidence of Reason But he rather approves the way of proving the sense of Scripture by other places of Scripture where the interpretation is doubtful So that the way in doubtful places which he prescribes is this either to draw such a sense from them as hath no dispute concerning its being a true Proposition or if it have that it be confirmed by other places of Scripture Besides these he lays down the 7. rules of Ticonius the Donatist which are not of that consequence to be here repeated that which I take notice of is that St. Augustin thought the rules he gave sufficient for understanding the meaning of Scripture in doubtful places but he doth not in the least mention the Infallibility of the Guides of the Church as a necessary means for that end But he doth assert in as plain terms as I have done that Scripture is plain in all necessaries to Salvation to any sober enquirer and what ever consequences are charged upon me for making that a Fundamental principle must reflect as much upon St. Augustin as me and I do not fear all the objections can be made against a principle so evident to reason and so agreeable not only to St. Augustin but the Doctrine of the Catholick Church both before and after him The next after St. Augustin who hath purposely writ of this argument about the sense of Scripture is Vincentius Lerinensis about 4. years after St. Augustins death and 3. after the Council of Ephesus who seems to attribute more to the Guides of the Church than St. Augustin doth yet far enough short of Infallibility He saith that every man ought to strengthen his faith against Heresie by two things first by the Authoriry of the divine Law and then by the Tradition of the Catholick Church which tradition he makes necessary not by way of addition to the Scripture for he allows the perfection and sufficiency of that for all things but only to interpret Scripture by giving a certain sense of it there being such different opinions among men about it For all the Hereticks whom he there names had different senses of Scripture as Novatianus Sabellius Donatus Arius Macedonius Photinus c. But then he bounds this tradition within the compass of the universal consent of Antiquity as well as the present Church or as he expresseth it within those things which were believed every where always and by all persons That we may therefore consider how far these rules of Vincentius will serve for explaining the sense of Scripture we are to take notice of the restrictions he lays upon them 1. That they are to be taken together and not one of them separate from the rest As for instance that of Vniversality in any one Age of the Church being taken without the consent of Antiquity is no sufficient rule to interpret Scripture by For Vincentius doth suppose that any one Age of the Church may be so overrun with Heresie that there is no way to confute it but by recourse to Antiquity For in the case of the Arian heresie he grants that almost the whole Church was overspread with it and there was then no way left but to prefer the consent of Antiquity before a prevailing novelty In some cases the Universal consent of the present Church is to be relyed upon against the attempts of particular persons as in that of the Donatists but then we are to consider that Antiquity was still pleaded on the same side that Vniversality was and supposing that all the Ancient Church from the Apostles times had been of the same mind with the Donatists the greater number of the same Age opposing them would have been no more cogent against them than it was afterwards for the Arians It is unreasonable to believe that in a thing universally believed by all Christians from the Apostles times the Christian Church should be deceived but it is quite another thing to say that the Church in any one or more Ages since the Apostles times may be deceived especially if the Church be confined to one certain Communion excluding all others and the persons in that Church have not liberty to deliver their opinions for then it is impossible to know what the Judgement of the whole Church is And so universality is not thought by Vincentius himself to be alone sufficient to determine the sense of Scripture supposing that universality to be understood according to the honesty of the Primitive times for a free and general consent of the Christians of that Age in which a man lives but since the great divisions of the Christian world it is both a very hard matter to know the consent of Christendom in most of the Controverted places of Scripture and withal the notion of Vniversality is debauched and corrupted and made only to signifie the consent of one great Faction which is called by the name of the Catholick Church but truly known by the name of Roman 2. That great care and Judgement must be used in the applying those Rules for 1. The consent of Antiquity is not equally evident in all matters in dispute and therefore cannot be of equal use 1. There are some things wherein we may be certain of such a consent and that was in the Rule of Faith as Vincentius and most of the ancient Writers call it i.e. the summary comprehension of a Christians duty as to matters of faith which was not so often called the Symbol as the Rule of Faith that I mean which was delivered to persons who were to be baptized and received into the Church this the ancient Church Universally agreed in as to the substance of it And as to this Vincentius tells us his Rule is especially to be understood For saith he this consent of Antiquity is not to be sought for in all questions that may arise about the sense of Scripture but only or at least chiefly in the Rule of Faith or as he elsewhere explains himself alone or chiefly in those Questions which concern the Fundamentals of the Catholick Doctrine which were those contained in the Rule of Faith delivered to all that were to be baptized Suppose men now should stretch this Rule beyond the limits assigned it by Vincentius what security can there be from him that it shall be a certain rule who confined it within such narrow bounds Not that I think his Rules of no use at all now no I think them to be of admirable use and great importance to Christianity if truly understood and applyed i.e. When any Persons take upon them to impose any thing upon others as a necessary matter of faith to be believed by them we can have no better rules of Judgement in this case than those of Vincentius are viz. Antiquity Vniversality and Consent and whatsoever cannot be proved by these Rules ought to be rejected by all Christians To make this plain the
power and that they were to be so looked on by all But the Pope did not think this sufficient but declares all those Articles that related to liberty of Religion Church-lands or any Ecclesiastical Rights or brought any the least prejudice to them or might be thought or pretended so to do to be null void invalid unjust damned reprobate vain and without any force or power and that they shall remain so for ever and that no person though never so much sworn to observe those articles shall be bound by such oath no right title plea prescription shall accrue to any by vertue of them and therefore out of the Plenitude of Apostolical power he doth absolutely damn reprobate null and cassate all those articles and protests before God of the nullity of them and restores all persons and places to their ancient possessions notwithstanding them with very much more to the same purpose This was dated at Rome apud Sanctam Mariam Majorem sub Annulo Piscatoris die 26 Novemb. and solemnly published there the third of Jan. 1651. in the eighth year of his Pontificat Call you this Sir the Popes confirming them Is it credible that he who in the beginning of his Answer had charged the late Protestant Books which he most ingeniously calls Libels to be crammed with nothing else but what we know to be false should within a few Pages have the confidence to affirm in the face of the world so notorious an untruth But I leave this ingenious Author to be Chastised for this and other his extravagancies by his worthy Adversary and return to my own After all these unsuccessful attempts at last the Knight himself resolves to encounter the Dragon and accordingly he buckles on his armour mounts his stead and according to all ancient and modern Pictures of the combat directs his lance into the very mouth of it wisely considering if the head were mortally wounded the whole Body would fall to the ground After him at a convenient distance follows his Squire I. S. who had a particular spight at the Dragons Tayl and without fear or wit falls unmercifully upon it and in his own opinion hath chopt it into a thousand pieces But such mischievous creatures whose strength lies scattered in all their parts do often rise up when they are triumphed over as dead and give their most deadly wounds when they are thought to lye gasping for breath It happened that when T. G's Answer to the first part of my Book came out I was before engaged in the Defence of the Protestant principles of faith against the Guide in Controversies and E. W. the Author of those two learned Treatises as T. G. calls them Protestancy without Principles and Religion and Reason part of which being then in the Press I was forced to go through with that before I could take his Book into consideration And thereupon I resolved to dispatch all those which relate to the Principles of Faith together and then to proceed to the Principles of Worship in answer to him which God willing I intend as soon as the former part is finished All that I shall take notice of him here is to represent the ingenuity of his dealing with me in his Preface wherein he charges me with dissenting from the Doctrine of the Church of England in accusing the Church of Rome of Idolatry And by this one Instance I desire the Reader to judge what Candour and sincerity he is to expect in his Book For the sense of the Church of England I appealed to the Book of Homilies not to any doubtful or general or single passage therein but to the design of one of the largest and most elaboratâ— Homilies in the whole Book consisting of three several parts the last of which iâ— said not to be meerly for the People but for the instruction of those who were tâ— teach them The design of that last part is thus set down 1. That Popish Images and the Idols of the Gentils are all one concerning themselves 2. That they have been and be worshipped in our time in like form and manner as were the Idols of the Gentils And for that Idolatry standeth chiefly in the mind it shall in this part first be proved that our Image-maintainers have had and have the same opinions and judgement of Saints whose Images they have made and worshipped as the Gentils Idolaters had of their Gods and afterwards shall be declared that our Image-maintainers and worshippers have used and use the same outward rites and manner of honouring and worshipping their Images as the Gentils did use before their Idols and that therefore they commit Idolatry as well inwardly as outwardly as did the wicked Gentils Idolaters and this that Homily is intended for the proof of which it doth very fully But saith T. G. why did I not appeal for the sense of our Church to the 39. Articles As though the approbation of the Book of Homilies were not one of them viz the 35. The second Book of Homilies the several Titles whereof we have joyned under this Article among which Titles the second is this of the Peril of Idolatry doth contain a godly and wholesome Doctrine and necessary for these times Which Articles were not only allowed and approved by the Queen but confirmed by the subscription of the hand of the Arch-bishop and Bishops of the upper House and by the subscription of the whole Clergy in the nether House of Convocation A. D. 1571. Now I desire T. G. to resolve me whether men of any common understanding would have subscribed to this Book of Homilies in this manner if they had believed the main Doctrine and design of one of them had been false and pernicious as they must have done if they had thought the practice of the Roman Church to be free from Idolatry I will put thâ— case that any of the Bishops then had thought the charge of Idolatry had been unjust and that it had subverted the foundation of Ecclesiastical Authority that there could have been no Church or right ordination if the Roman Church had been guilty of Idolatry would they have inserted this into the Articles when it was in their power to have left it out and that the Homilies contained a wholesome and Godly Doctrine which in their consciences they believed to be false and pernicious I might as well think that the Council of Trent would have allowed Calvins Institutions as containing a wholesome and Godly Doctrine as that men so perswaded would have allowed it the Homily against the Peril of Idolatry And how is it possible to understand the sense of our Church better than by such publick and authentick acts of it which all Persons who are in any place of trust in the Church must subscribe and dâ—clare their approbation of them This Homily hath still continued the same the Article the very same and if so they must acknowledge this hath been and is to this day the sense
salvation so that the force of the argument comes to this whatsoever Church does embrace the ancient Creeds cannot be guilty of Idolatry but the Church of Rome doth embrace all the ancient Creeds by my own concession therefore it is a contradiction for me to grant that they hold the ancient Creeds and yet to charge them with Idolatry And these matters being thus made plain there is no great difficulty to answer by denying the major Proposition and asserting that a Church which does own all the articles of faith which are contained in them may yet teach and practise those things which take away from that worship which is proper only to God and give it to meer creatures as I have proved the Church of Rome doth in the worship of Images adoration of the Host and Invocation of Saints But to make this yet more plain there are two things we consider in a Church the essence and the soundness of it as in a man we consider his being a man and his health when we discourse of his meer Being we enquire into no more than those things which make him a man whether he be sound or not so in a Church when we enquire into the essentials of it we think it not necessary to go any farther than the doctrinal points of faith the reason is because Baptism admits men into the Church upon the profession of the true faith in the Father Son and Holy Ghost and whatever is sufficient to make a member of the Church that is in it self sufficient being embraced to make a Church but when we enquire farther into the moral integrity or soundness of a Church then we think our selves bound not barely to know what is acknowledged and received but how far it is so and whether that Church which owns the Fundamentals of Christian faith doth not by gross and damnable errours corrupt the Worship of God and debauch those very Principles which they profess to own And in this respect none of us ever said That the Church of Rome did not err nay we do say and have manifestly proved that she hath erred against the Christian faith by introducing palpable errours in doctrine and manifold Superstitions and Idolatries in practice From hence it plainly appears that the concession I. W. urges me with of the Church of Rome being a true Church signifies nothing in the sense by me intended which contradicts the charge of Idolatry unless they can prove that none who own the Apostles Creed or their Baptism can so long as they so do teach Idolatry or be guilty of giving the honour due only to God to meer creatures These things being thus explained I hope the Sophistry of this way of arguing is made so evident that no man of understanding that resolves not before hand what to believe is capable of being deceived by it Before I come to the next contradiction charged upon me I shall for the diversion of the Reader and the suitableness of the matter take notice of his Appendix wherein I. W. goes about so pleasantly to prove me an Idolater by a notable trick which it seems came into his head a little too late after he had finisht this worthy Treatise I should have suspected it had been intended only for a piece of Drollery but that the man so severely rebukes me for it and withall talks of nothing less than demonstration in the case What thought I is it come to this at last and am I become an Idolater too who was never apt to think my self enclined so much as to superstition but what can not the controverting Wit of man do upon second and serious thoughts All the comfort I found left was towards the conclusion wherein he confesses that the same argument proves the Prophets Evangelists and Holy Ghost himself to be Idolaters Nay then I hoped there was no great harm to be feared in so good company and by that consideration armed my self against this terrible assault But at last as he made nearer approaches to me I found no mischief was like to come but what I brought upon my self for he charged me with nothing but my own Artillery and the train that was laid to blow me up was fetched from my own stores only he had disposed it in a way fittest for this deep design But the best of it was his plot went no farther than my Idolatry and both lay only in Imagination For there he makes the seat of my Idolatry which he demonstratively proves must be so by my own argument I shall therefore consideâ— what that was and with what great art he imploys it against me Among other arguments to shew that the prohibition of worshipping Images was not peculiar to the Iews but of an unalterable nature I insisted upon Gods declaring the unsuitableness of it to his own infinite and incomprehensible nature which could not be represented to men but in a way which must be an infinite disparagement to it To whom will ye liken God or what likeness will ye compare to him It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth c. and the reason given of the Law it self was because they saw no sâ—militude of God from hence I shewed that the wisest Nations and Persons among the Heathen looked on the Worship of God by Images as unsuitable to a Divine and Infinite Being and that the Gospel still more discovered Gods Spiritual nature and the agreeableness of Spiritual Worship to him that the Apostles urged this Argument against the Heathen Idolatry and the Fathers of the Church thought the reason of this Law did equally oblige us with the Iews now by what art doth he from hence prove me necessarily to be an Idolater as well as they of the Church of Rome who Worship God by Images against the very words and reason of this Law The argument is briefly summed up by himself thus Whoever Worships God represented in a way far inferiour to his greatness is an Idolater but whosoever Worships God represented to him without the Beatifical vision either by words or by imaginations as well as Images he Worships God in a way far inferiour to his greatness ergo whoever worships God represented unto him without the Beatifical vision is an Idolater but Dr. St. Worships God without the Beatifical vision no doubt of it ergo Dr. St. is an Idolater there is no help for it Nay from hence he proves that I cannot so much as think of God without Idolatry my self nor Preach of him without provoking others to it O the insuperable force of reason and the dint of demonstration but the mischief is all this subtilty is used against the Law-maker and not against me Did I not cite the words of God himself who therefore did forbid the making any likeness of him because nothing could be like him Is there no difference between having imperfect conceptions of God in our minds and making unworthy
is that it is a foolish thing to make use of a medium as uncertain as the thing which is to be proved by it and therefore if the Infallibility of the the Church be as liable to doubts and disputes as that of the Scriptures it is against all just Laws of reasoning to make use of the Churches Infallibility to prove the Scriptures by And to this no answer can be proper but either by saying that there is no absurdity in such a way of proving or else that the Infallibility of the Church is more certain and evident than that of the Scriptures Which I should be glad to see undertaken by any man who pretends to sense which N. O. doth too much to meddle with it and therefore fairly shuffles it off and turns my words quite to another meaning as though they had been spoken of the doubtful sense of the Decrees of Councils which although elsewhere I had sufficient reason to speak of yet that was not pertinent to this place But this was a way to escape by saying something though not at all to the purpose and yet he gives no sufficient answer to that sense he puts upon my words by bringing a Commentary upon them out of words used by me in another Discourse Wherein I did at large argue against the Infallibility of General Councils and after disproving it in general I undertook to prove that no man can have any certainty of Faith as to the Decrees of any Council because men can have no certainty of Faith that this was a General Council that it passed such Decrees that it proceeded lawfully in passing them and that this is the certain meaning of them all which are necessary in order to the believing those Decrees to be infallible with such a Faith as they call divine The words produced by him do speak of the doubtful sense and meaning of the Decrees of Councils by which I shew that men can have no more certainty of the meaning of them than of doubtful places of Scripture not as though I supposed it impossible for Councils to give a clear decision in matters of controversie so as that men might understand their meaning but I expresly mention such Decrees as are purposely framed in general terms and with ambiguous expressions pressions to give satisfaction to the several dissenting Parties for which I instanced in some of the Council of Trent whose ambiguity is most manifest by the disputes about their meaning raised by some who were present at the making of them I am far enough from denying that a Commentary may make a Text plainer or that a Iudges sentence can be clearer than the Law or that any Council can or hath decided any thing clearer than the thing that is in controversie which are his exceptions but I say if Councils pretend to do more than the Scriptures and to decide controversies for the satisfaction of the World and that men ought to have that certainty of Faith by them which they cannot have by the Scriptures they ought never to be liable to the same ambiguity and obscurity upon the account of which the Scripture is rejected from being a certain rule of Faith For as he saith well Infallibility alone ends not Controversies but clearness clearness in the point controverted which if Councils want they are as unfit to end Controversies as the Scriptures can be pretended to be But this is not the thing intended by me in this Proposition and therefore it needs no farther answer for the only subject of that Proposition is the Infallibility of the Church and not the clearness of the Decrees of Councils But I cannot admire the ingenuity of this way of answering me by putting another sense upon my words than they will bear and by drawing words out of another Discourse without shewing the purpose for which they are there used and leaving out the most material passages which tended to the clearing of them If N. O. thinks fit to oppose that whole Discourse against the Infallibility of General Councils and set down fairly the several Arguments I should be then too blame not to return a just answer but I am not bound to follow him in such strange excursions from the 17. Proposition of this Book to a single passage in a larger Book and from that back to another at a mighty distance in the same Book which being dismembred from the Body of the Discourse must needs lose much of their strength Yet with all the disadvantage he takes them which is such that the best Book in the World may be confuted in that manner he hath no great cause to glory in the execution he hath done upon them In answer to my Lord of Canterburies Adversary who boasted of the Unity of the Roman Church because whatever the private opinions of men are they are ready to submit their judgments to the censure and determination of the Church I had said that this will hold as well or better for our Unity as theirs because all men are willing to submit their judgments to Scripture which is agreed on all sides to be infallible Against these words thus taken alone N. O. spends two or three Pages which might have been spared if he had but fairly expressed what immediately follows them in these words If you say it cannot be known what Scripture determines but it may be easily what the Church defines it is easily answered that the event shews it to be far otherwise for how many disputes are there concerning the power of determining matters of Faith to whom it belongs in what way it must be managed whether Parties ought to be heard in matters of Doctrine what the meaning of the Decrees are when they are made which raise as many divisions as were before them as appears by the Decrees of the Council of Trent and the later of Pope Innocent relating to the five Propositions so that upon the whole it appears setting aside force and fraud which are excellent Principles of Christian Unity we are upon as fair terms of Union as they are among themselves I do not therefore say that the Church of Rome hath no advantage at all in point of Unity but that all the advantage it hath comes from force and fraud and setting these aside we are upon as good terms of Union as they and we do not envy them the effects of Tyranny and Deceit It is the Union of Christians we contend for and not of Slaves or Fools we leave the Turk and the Pope to vie with each other in this kind of Unity although I believe the Turk hath much the advantage in it and I freely yield to N. O. that they have a juster pretence to Vnity without Truth than we Which is agreeable to what he pleads for that they are more united in opinion than we united in opinion I say true or false saith he here matters not we speak here of Vnion not of Truth This and