can be any such Command and by consequence no Injury is offered to our Senses no reproach to the Church His next offer is at a Clip to the Royal Stamp and because he says 't is with Submission I presume it to be unadvised for whereas the Kings Paper runs thus that none can be that Church but that which is called the Roman-Catholic Church he snips off I know not how this word Catholic and so restrains the Kings meaning to the particular Church or Diocess of Rome this must be confessed not to be the best way of examining the King's Coin for tho' by this term Roman sometimes all Churches in Communion with the Church of Rome be signify'd yet by the Parallel made betwixt the whole and the part he is convinced not to have meant so To requite then his Parallel 't is as visible that the word Roman is not Roman-Catholic as that one word is not two as to the Corruption with which in general Terms he aspersed the Roman Church since 't is as invisible as the Proofs he brings to justify the Charge I shall pass it by After it was settled That Christ can have but one Church upon Earth and that this is that Church we profess to believe in the two Creeds He thus subsumes But if those who made those Creeds for our Direction had intended the Roman-Catholic Church why was it not so expressed how came it to pass that such a Limitation of the Sense of Christ's Catholic Church to the Roman should never be put to persons to be baptized in any Age of the Church My first Answer shall be ad hominem by retorfion If the Apostles intended we should believe that Christ was Consubstantial to his Father or that Hereticks were not to be re-baptized why did they not insert it into their Creeds If the Apostles and Nicene Fathers after them intended we should believe the duality of Wills and unity of Persons in Christ how did it escape both their Creeds I believe we shall jump upon the same Solution which is that none of these Doctrines were questioned in those days no Hereticks had opposed them and therefore there was no need of decision this being the Province of General Councils in framing their Creeds Let 's see if this will square to my purpose Catholic and Roman-Catholic-Church in the Language of Antiquity was one and the same thing saving when the particular Church or Diocess of Rome was expressed which being so and the point never call'd in question in the first and best days of the Church when those Creeds were to be published what great surprize is it that the word Roman should not be comprized in any of their Creeds Or that it was not enter'd into the ancient Formulary or Ceremonies of Baptism so venerable to after ages and of which they have ever been most tenacious I have engaged Antiquity for the Roman-Catholic side let 's see whether she will stand by me and let Tertullian lead the Van who well understood the Language both of his own and the foregoing Age. Speak then Tertullian what thou knowest of Marcion's pecunary Oblation in Rome to the Roman Church Marcion says he gave his money to the Catholic Church which was rejected when he fell into Heresie Tertul. contra Marcion lib. 4. cap. 4. See how easily it dropt from his Pen to stile the Roman Church the Catholic Church What 's now the sense of St. Cyprian the mouth of the African Church to Antonianus You writ that I should send a Copy of the Letters to Cornelius Bishop of Rome to the end that he might understand that you communicate with him that is to say with the Catholic Church Cypr. lib. 4. epist. 2. And if it be the same to communicate with the Pope as it is with the Catholic Church then clearly the Roman and Catholic Church are one and the same St. Ambrose in his Funeral Oration upon his Brother Satyrus relates this passage of Satyrus that coming into a City polluted with Heresie he demands of the Bishop of the place whether he was in Communion with the Catholic Bishop that is with the Church of Rome St. Ambros. Orat. funeb So that in the phrase of that time communion with the Catholic Church and Church of Rome nothing differ'd John of Constantinople to Hormisda Pope writes thus We promise hereafter not to recite in the Sacred Mysteries the names of those who have separated themselves from the Catholic Church that is to say who agree not fully with the See Apostolic Tom. 3. Concil Edit Binii inter Epist. Hormisdae By this we may see the stile of old times Nay it was so familiar to use promiscuously the word Roman for Catholic that the very Arians as the Protestants now do called the Catholics by the name of Romanists Victor of Utica brings in Jocundus an Arian thus arguing with King Theodorick If thou put Armogastus to death the Romanists will proclaim him a Martyr Victor Utic lib. 2. de persec Vandal And Gregory of Tours recounts of an Arian King who seeing a miracle wrought by a Catholic concludes that this was a device of the Romanists Since therefore in the vulgar Speech and Records of old days Roman and Catholic are Synonima the King had much reason to declare That none could be that Church but that which is called the Roman-Catholic-Church And a rational account is given why the word Roman was not expressed in the two Creeds nor in the Ritual of Baptism From the Church of Rome's not denying the validity of Baptism to those who are out of her Communion he urges thus From whence it is to me as visible as that the Scripture is in print that the Church of Rome it self doth not believe that she is the one Catholic Church mentioned in the Creeds This is very pleasant it is a fixed principle that there is but one Church Catholic and the Church of Rome by a thousand Declarations takes it upon her self to be that one Church and yet it must be as Visible to this Gentleman as that the Scripture is in print that the Church of Rome doth not believe her self to be that ōne Catholic Church mention'd in the two Creeds what can he offer to justifie so strange a Paradox For then says he it must void all Baptism out of its communion which it hath never yet done But what greater necessity is there for the Church of Rome to void Baptism given out of her Communion then for the Catholic Church Or if the Catholic Church doth not make it void what can oblige the Church of Rome to do it The Reply is That Baptism enters persons into the Catholic Church who though they be out of the Communion of the Roman Church yet having the true form of Baptism are Members of the Catholic Church But I beseech him if Baptism enters Men into the Catholic Church doth not Heresie Apostacy or Insidelity cast them out of the Catholic Church as well
A REPLY TO THE ANSWER Made upon the Three Royal PAPERS Published by Authority LONDON Printed for Matthew Turner at the Lamb in High-Holborn MDCLXXXVI THE PREFACE ENtring upon the Answer to the Three Royal Papers whereof the two first were of CHARLES the Second of ever blessed memory and the last of her Royal Highness the Dutchess of York I met with a Gentleman of so frank a Temper that could his Will bribe his Understanding and he believe as he pleased he tells us he had not fail'd of that Satisfaction in the KINGS first Paper of which for the want of Reason to convince him he was now disappointed This condescending Humour is a fair step made to the Inquest by a second Examen of those excellent Truths illustrated by the pregnant Pens and Sense of those Royal Converts Royal Papers I confess as to their Value may be examined as well as Royal Coin even by a private Subject But as the Royal Stamp in Coin may under that fair Pretence by a private Subject be counterfeited clipt or otherwise disguised so Royal Papers especially of Controversy are no less obnoxious to the same Fate and in this they only differ that no such Alteration in the KING'S Coin can be made by a private Subject but he is look't upon as an ill Man and acting with an ill Design Whereas in the KING' 's Controversial Papers the change either of Sense or Word may be made and that by a well-designing Person from misunderstanding inadvertency or other inculpable Surprize Now as to this Gentleman to determine any thing would be a piece of Injustice for I am ignorant both of his Merits and his Person What Mist hath overcast his sight I know not but if he please to look back by a new Survey on the three Papers he may still see in them Reason and Truth so well fixed that to any thing yet opposed they stand unconcerned and as they bear in their Front the Royal Names and Superscription so their Weight will render them immoveable THE FIRST Royal Paper VINDICATED FOrgers and Clippers of Royal Coin seek their safety in places of all the most obscure and Disguisers and Clippers of Royal Sense hide themselves in the shades of Equivocation the King availing himself in his first Paper upon this supposed Concession That Christ can have but one Church here upon Earth makes this other step and I believe that it is as Visible as that Scripture is in print that none can be that Church but that which is called the Roman Catholic Church Now if the King may be allowed to be the best expounder of his own words and if the whole and sole design of this first Paper be to evince this truth That all Controversial Points of Faith either about holy Scripture or other subjects do fall under the judgment and decision of the Church as is manifest it is then the import of the King's words must be thus that whatever motives render it visible that a Book in print is Scripture that is the Word of God the same or other motives are as powerful to render this other truth as visible That none can be that Church but that which is called the Roman Catholic Church This is the genuine Sense of the King and to this the Examinant of the Royal Papers gives this answer If particular Controuersies about matters of Faith could be ended by a principle as visible as that Scripture is in print all Men of Sense would soon give over Disputing for none who dare believe what they see can call that in question Not to contest with him about the impropriety of the phrase to believe what one sees Luther was a bold Man and yet in the phrase of this Gentleman did not dare to believe what he saw for the Epistle of St. James was in print before his Eyes he perused it and yet cast it out of the Canon of Scripture Catholics and Protestants are both Men of Sense they have the Books of Machabees and others in print they see them they handle them the Catholic gives them their place in the Canon the Protestants do not only question them but seem resolv'd to dispute that point to the end clearly then this principle that the Scripture is in print is not so unquestionable or indisputable as the Gentleman pretends and his miscarriage rests in this That the visibility which in the sense of the King springs from the motives inducing to believe that such or such a Book in print is the holy Scripture he assigns to a bare print of the Book But what if the Church whose Authority 't is said they must submit to will not allow them to believe what they see My first reply is That here is a confusion of Notions for belief is properly of things that are not seen as the Apostle describes it argumentum non apparentium and hath Authority for motive whereas sight or seeing is an inspection into the thing seen and creates a knowledge of it Secondly not to recede from his mode of Speech I am a stranger to such a Church and think it impossible to impose upon any Man a command not to believe what he sees For though it may and doth often fall out that a Man believes what he sees not yet in true Philosophy it can never happen that a Man may not believe what he sees and therefore such a command is ranged amongst the impossibles I well know where his scruple is and what he would be at 't is the Adorable Mystery of the conversion of Bread and Wine into the Body and Blood of our Redeemer where he hopes to evince this assertion but in vain for what is seen are only the forms shapes and figures of Bread and Wine and that we believe to be there consequently the Church lays upon us no command not to believe what we see For instance I will press upon him the two noted passages of holy Scripture the first is of two Angels appearing to Lot and conversing with him in the figure and shapes of Men the second is of the Holy Ghosts descent in the form of a Dove with all let us suppose that God had revealed to Lot this truth that what he did see were not Men but Angels in Mens Shape as he did to the Apostles that what appeared was not a Dove but the Holy Ghost in the Shape of a Dove I now put this question to him was this Revelation a Command upon Lot or the Apostles not to believe what they did see I believe his Answer will be Negative for if there were neither Men nor Dove neither could be seen If then God at any time should reveal to us by his Church that what is in the Holy Sacrament is not Bread nor Wine but the Body and Blood of Christ under those Shapes and Forms why must this revelation be deemed a Command not to believe what we see or where lies the Disparity Evidently then there neither is nor
of Rome of whom they were once a part at Liberty betook themselves to the Examination of the Popes Supremacy and other Articles of the Council of Trent by Scriptures Fathers and Councils but could find nothing in any of them to make out that Supremacy or any Article now in dispute But still the King's Questions pressed upon them who shall be Judge Is not this a President for all Rebellion either in Church or State They have neither Scripture Tradition Councils nor Fathers but what they had from the Roman Church and at the first Breach they were in number very Inconsiderable and yet by a strange Presumption they pretend to have a clearer Sight into those Principles than that Church who gave them their very Being in Christianity I believe were this Gentleman to argue against those Sects that have spawn'd from the Church of England he would not suffer a pride so intollerable as to prefer their own sense in Scriptures or the Rule of Faith before that Church that gave them the Rule Well but having finished this inquiry What did they do He goes on thus Articles of Religion were drawn up wherein the Sense of our Church was delivered agreable to Scripture and Antiquity not the private sense of particular Men. If they be Articles of Religion then they are Articles of Faith if so they must come by Divine Revelation either by the way of Holy Scripture Tradition or otherwise Now I beseech him to declare in which of these principles are all or any of these negative Articles contained as no praying to Saints no Purgatory no reverencing of Images no Transubstantiation and the like with which the nine and thirty Articles are stuft Clearly this is a new Creed which neither the Eastern nor Western Churches did ever profess to hold Nor will it avail to reply that nothing of praying to Saints Purgatory or the like is to be found in the Scriptures or Antiquity which notwithstanding is a manifest illusion for if they be Articles of Religion or of Faith he must bring positive Texts to assert them by which all persons should be obliged to believe them and so to Sacrifice their Lives for them if occasion should be otherwise the Creed-makers will be lookt upon as Cheats and their new Creeds as the deluding Fancies of particular Men. As to the advantages of the Clergy in the Church of Rome I must needs confess they are very considerable and therefore not likely to be lost by any Reformation in Religion since if an Angel from Heaven should bring it they are caution'd not to receive him But that the Clergy should be against and Princes for the Church of Rome is as surprizing as that a Clergy may be byast and a Prince unbyast a Blessing so signally fallen from Heaven upon the Prince who now reigns and his blessed Brother that no advantage under Heaven can be thought so powerful as to have byast them in their Choice THE SECOND Royal Paper VINDICATED HIS late Majesty out of Paternal commiseration and his Princely care for the safety of this Nation breaks out into this complaint It is a sad thing to consider what a world of Heresies are crept into this Nation And this Assailant is much concerned that no distinction should be made between the Religion establish'd by Law and the Parties disowned by it and dissenting from it As if an establishment of a Religion by Law could protect it from being an Heresie or as if Error fix'd by a Law were not more to be pityed than what is vagrant and unsetled He need not trouble himself to vindicate other Sects from Heresie against the four or six General Councils let him defend his own and his work is done But how comes the Church of England to bear the blame of so many Heresies The reason is obvious to any one who reflects upon the breach she made from the Church of Rome and by that example opened a Gate for all Heresies to enter nay the truth is she is a fruitful Womb of Heresies of which Time has and will still deliver her for by throwing the Rule of Obedience and Government over-board the Presbyterians revolted from her from them the Anabaptists the Quakers and how many links more there will or may be God alone can tell since 't is not in the power of that Church but by the Sword to suppress them which if she should use against them nothing would be more unreasonable than to persecute them for adhering too closely to a Rule or Example which she first gave them To his Question How came the Church of Rome to have this power of defining or declaring what 's Heresie I answer By the same way the Church had power in her General Councils to make Creeds and Anathmatize Hereticks and as the Church then did not make any new Articles of Faith when she defined that the Son was Consubstantial to the Father and that Christ had two Wills and one Person so the Church of Rome in her definitions never pretends to make new Articles of Faith but to declare the old ones When the King had pronounced That every Man thinks himself as competent a Judge of Scripture as the Apostles themselves He answers by a Counter-questio Does every one amongst us pretend to an infallible Spirit Yes for by this Gentleman's Position no Man of them will believe but what he sees or understands in the Scriptures and in what they see or understand he conceives they cannot be deceived consequently their Spirit is infallible To use a Man's understanding about Scripture is not to be Judge of Scripture For a Man that so uses his understanding as to submit it to the Tradition of the Church makes the Church the Judge and not himself And whoever uses his understanding in opposition to the Churches Tradition makes himself judge indeed but not to his Salvation We says he own the Authority of Guides in the Church and a due submission to them What 's this Is that submission so due that Heaven will be lost without it If so his Church is as competent a Judge as the Apostles for that is the only punishment due to those who hear not them if otherwise the submission is ad pompam and in the sense of the King every Man thinks himself as competent a Judge of Scripture as the very Apostles themselves The King gives here a Reason for his foregoing Assertion and the sum of it is that the Church of England dares not press her Authority upon other Sects in giving the sense of Scriptures for fear they should confound her for having cast off the Authority of that Church of which she was once a Member and to whom she was equally bound to submit To this he replys That the Church of England pretends to no Infallibility but this is to disguise the Royal Coin for the King abstracts from all Infallibility and his Argument is as forceable without it as with it for if the Sectaries can
that this Gentleman would force his Modesty to such a Degree as to give the Lye to a Lady of her transcendent Quality especially who had been so well bred up in the Principles of the Church of England I shall rather favour him with this Construction that tho' she thought what she said was true yet in reality it was not But how came she to make this Declaration she tells us she never had any scruple till the November before and then they began upon reading Doctor Heylin's History of the Reformation which was commended to her as a Book to settle her and there she found such abominable Sacriledge upon Henry the Eighth's Divorce King Edward's Minority and Queen Elizabeth's Succession that she could not believe the Holy Ghost could ever be in such Councills And because Doctor Heylin's History wrought her Conversion he seems to be displeased at the Author of that Advice but I must needs dissent from him for it being a History of the Reformation it wasmore fit to put that into her hands to settle her in her Religion if the Reformation had been from God being within her Sphere than any Book of Controversy wherein she might have been plunged into difficulties insuperable the Objection oftentimes out-weighing the Solution And tho' in the History of Reformation he tells us there are two distinct parts The one built on Scripture and Antiquity the other upon Maxims of State yet the one being visible and the other invisible had she been a Person of greater Understanding than she was how could she possibly discern both what he requires to have been the Subject of her Consideration was so far beyond her Reach that more Speculative Persons than her Condition would permit her to be come short of that Performance and therefore no better way could be than to be conversant with such Objects or motives as were of her own size One of which was that where the Foundations of a Pretended Reformation were Sacriledge Rapine and Lust She could not believe the Holy Ghost could ever be in such Councills He replies thus were not the Vices of Alexander the Sixth and of many other Popes as great at least as those of Henry the Eighth Be it so and suppose them greater therefore neither she nor any Body else in Prudence can believe that God ever chose Alexander the Sixth or such as he points at by vitiously acting to be the Reformers of his Church or to give Being to a Reformation As to the Invasion upon the Rights and Lands of the Church he replies to by Retaliation Are there not Miscarriages of the like Nature in the Church of Rome It may be so but if by such Miscarriages one should think to reform the Church I shall as freely declare with this great Lady that I cannot believe the Holy Ghost can ever be in such Councils From her scruples which the reading of Dr. Heylin's History of the Reformation had put into her mind she came to the Examen of points in difference by the Holy Scriptures where it seems says he contrary to the Doctrine of the Church of Rome she found some things so easie that she wondered she had been so long without finding them out That some things may easily be met with in Holy Scripture makes not against the Doctrine of the Church of Rome nay standing to the bare Letter without the assistance of Tradition experience has made it manifest that her Champions have fought against all sorts of Enemies with that success even at their own weapon that partiality it self cannot deny her the Victory Nor is it any great wonder that a Lady of her great endowments being but yet a seeker of Truth and not acquainted with the Catholic Rules of Expounding Scriptures and having no other interest but her Soul's safety should easily find what she did not formerly when she thought her self secure and was not concern'd nay what great Doctors do pass slightly over when thousands of lesser Talents than she have done the like What discoveries then hath she made First of the Real Presence then of the Infallibility of Confession and praying for the Dead As to the Real Presence importing a Real and Substantial change of the Elements into the Body and Blood of Christ. He demands In what words of Christ is it to be found I answer in these This is my Body And whereas he adds That the wisest Persons of the Church of Rome have confessed that the bare words of our Saviour can never prove it I answer 'T is hard for him to determine who are the wisest but he knows well that they generally teach that those words cannot be verify'd without that change Confession of Sins as ever commanded is no harder to meet withal than confess your sins to one another And if the Apostles and in them their Successors had power to forgive and retain sins there must be an Obligation in others to confess them otherwise that power had been useless Praying for the Dead is also frequently grounded upon Scripture and though her Royal Highness seems to have been somewhat confirmed in the belief of it by the concession of the two Bishops yet she no where affirm'd that to be the sole Motive to change her Religion but only that it added more to her desire of being a Catholic The Places usually cited for the Infallibility of the Church he would perswade us may as well be apply'd to other Churches as to the Roman but because I have already proved the Roman to be that one Catholic Church I shall supersede from any further trouble at the present From Christ's promise of being with the Church to the end of the World and she now believing no other Church to be that Church but that which is called the Roman she makes this inference That our Saviour would not permit the Church to give the Laity the Communion in one kind if it were not lawful so to do This Illation is evident for otherwise he would not be with his Church to the end of the world From this excellentDiscourse of her Royal Highness 't is an invincible Truth that all the force of Sense and Reason do center in this conclusion that she did not think it possible to save her Soul otherwise than in the Roman Church and by her Paper the world may see the pregnant Power of Truth which forced those two great Lights of England's Church to a private concession of what in publick they were unwilling to own Magna est veritas prâ—valebit FINIS A Catalogue of Books Sold by Matthew Turner at the Lamb in High-Holbourn ACTS of the Clergy of France The second Edition To which is added a necessary advice how to read Books of Controversie Quarto A Discourse of the necessity of Church Guides Quarto The Guide in Controversies Four Parts Quarto A True Narrative of the pretended Popish Plot with Figures A Papist Mis-represented and Represented Quarto Why are you a Catholic And Why are you a Protestant Quarto Bishop Condom's Discourse of Universal History Octavo Digitus Dei against Nullifidians Octavo The MASS Triumphing Octavo The MASS Vindicated Octavo Veron's Rule of Faith Octavo Bishop Condom's Exposition of Catholic Doctrine Twelves His Treatise of Communion in both Species Twelves The Touch-stone of the Reformed Gospel Twelves Turbervil's Manual of Controversies Twelves Abridgment of Christian Doctrine Eighteens Vane's Lost Sheep Return'd home Twelves Counsels of Wisdom or the Maxims of Solomon Twelves The Catechism of Penance Eighteens Four Maxims of Eternity Eighteens Christian Thoughts for every Day Twentyfours St. Francis de Sales Introduction to a Devout Life Twelves Thomas of Kempis Following of Christ. In Twelves and Twentyfours THE END