adhering and yet not promised to bee petra virtute a rocke for vertue in sustayning So that to conclude there may be as you see in many things a likenesse betweene petrus petra this rocke and that stone yet not so much as that a reasonable lapidarie may not distinguish them SECT VI. The obiection drawne from the question how wee may know the authoritie sense puritie and perfection of the Scriptures handled and resolued THe last forme of argumentation which they vse is drawne from the dependancy which they say the Scriptures haue vpon the Church though not absolutely in themselues yet in respect of vs our discerning of them Whence they thus argue if the testimonie of the Church be not infallible how shall we be resolued in these three interrogatiues The first is touching the Scriptures authoritie whether they be the vndoubted Word of God or no The second touching their interpretation what their sense and meaning is The third concerning their puritie and perfection whether they be perfect and entire or maymed and corrupted To prepare the way for the resoluing of these questions we are to note that as to the right apprehension of an obiect by the sense so to the due comprehension of the Scriptures by the soule three things are ordinarily required Viz. 1. First that the Scriptures bee an obiect capable to be apprehended and discerned 2. Secondly that there bee organs and faculties as those of the bodie so these of the soule fitly disposed and qualified to receiue and discerne that obiect 3. Thirdly that there bee a medium that is a middle instrument or meanes to conuey present and vnite the obiect to the organ 1. For the first wee agree that to the end the Scriptures should bee an obiect capable to bee seene and discerned it is requisite that they should be endowed with such remarkable properties and notes as may distinguish them from other writings For we take not to taske to teach vnreasonable creatures as did Saint Francis neither doe we dreame of fanaticall inspirations imagining that God reueales things vnto vs ouer and besides the Word but wee inuite you to looke vpon the markes and characters of the Word and we say as Philip did to Nathaniel Ioh. 1. Come and see Now these properties notes and Characters by which the Word of God becomes an obiect distinct and capable to be knowne by vs are Either 1. Outwardly accompanying it as antiquitie miracles fulfilling of prophesies testimonies of Martyrs and the like which doe onely procure attention and prepare men to beleeue probably and with lesse difficultie 2. Inwardly imprinted in it as first the diuine and spirituall matters therein contayned surpassing all humane wisedom being things which neither eye hath seene nor eare hath heard neither haue entred into the heart of man Secondly The forme of the stile void of affectation yet transcending in quicknesse maiestie and fulnesse the Master-peeces of the most polite and elaborat Orators Thirdly The sweet harmonie and consent of parts with parts Lastly The efficacy and vertue which it hath to produce the loue of God and our Enemies to procure the peace of our Consciences to alienate a man from the delights of the Flesh and the World to make him reioyce in afflictions to triumph ouer Death all which doe necessarily conclude the diuine authoritie of the Scriptures seeing nature it selfe is thereby vanquisht and a strong man cannot be bound but by a stronger than himselfe 2. For the second wee agree that seeing wee are not able to discerne the Scriptures by any naturall habit or inbred qualitie of our owne For the naturall man as the Apostle speakes receiueth not the things of the Spirit of God because they are foolishnesse vnto him neither can he know them for that they are spiritually discerned 1. Cor. 2. that therefore wee are enabled thereunto by faith and by the inward enlightning and perswasion of Gods Spirit But I neede not insist vpon a point which Bellarmine himselfe labours so to proue in his 6. lib. de Grat. lib. Arbit cap. 1. 2. and is confirmed by the Tridentine Councell in the 6. Sess 3. Can. 3. For the third which is the medium wee are not of Democritus opinion who thought that if the aire which conueyes the beames of the Starres vnto vs were away one should bee able to spie a pismire in heauen but rather with Aristotle we thinke wee should then see nothing according to that axiome in philosophie In vacuo per vacuum nulla fit visio wee conseut therefore that God hath appointed an ordinarie meanes to conuey and present such celestiall obiects as the Word of God to our view and this ordinarie meanes wee say is the Church to which wee willingly attribute these two ordinarie vses in that imployment Viz. 1. First of a witnesse testifying the authoritie and sense of the Scriptures vnto vs wherein for the effect the papist and wee differ but this that wee say it produceth a faith no more than humane they lesse than diuine 2. Secondly of Gods instrument by whose ministerie in preaching expounding the Scriptures the holy Ghost begets a diuine Faith and other spirituall graces within vs. So that the question betweene vs is not whether we are to exclude the ordinarie ministerie of the Church testifying and propounding the Scriptures vnto vs for this wee doe not Nor on the other side Whether the authoritie of the Church be a sufficient argument of it selfe to produce a diuine assent vnto the same for this the learneder sort of them as anon you shal heare will not affirme But this Whether to the end that we may by the assistance of Gods Spirit and those inward notes and properties found in the Scriptures discerne the Word propounded by the Church vnto vs to be the Word of God infallibilitie be a requisite condition in the Propounder As if in playner termes one should say whether to the end that I may by the visage gesture and garments discerne my friend approaching towards me to bee such an one it bee needfull that the aire which conueyes those formes to my eye bee neuer and at no time capable by reason of mists or other accidents to represent false and deceitfull formes Or this whether to the end that a Gold-smith may by his touch-stone discerne a piece of gold deliuered him to bee good and currant it bee required that the parties credit which sells it him should bee vnquestionable This is that which in effect they affirme and this we denie To resolue therefore the difficultie We graunt that where the Propounder is the principall finall and onely cause for whose sake we beleeue a thing there if the Propounder bee liable to error and deceit a firme and vndoubted beliefe of such a thing cannot be had As for example if one onely Trauailer haue beene in the Indies and brings relation by word of mouth touching the commodities of the Countrie and
Credo Ecclesiam Sanctam Catholicam I beleeue the holy Catholike Church THE Authoritie Vniuersalitie and Visibilitie of the CHVRCH handled and discussed By EDWARD CHALONER Dr. in Diuinitie and Principall of ALBAN Hall in OXFORD LONDON Printed by William Stansby and are to bee sold in Pauls Church-yard at the signe of the Gray-Hound 1625. TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE WILLIAM Earle of PEMBROKE Lord HERBERT of Cardiffe Lord Par and Rosse of Kendall Lord Marmion and Saint Qâ—intin c. Lord Chamberlaine of his MAIESTIES Houshold Lord Warden of the Stanneries Knight of the most Noble Order of the Garter Chancellor of the Vniuersitie of Oxford And one of his Maiesties most Honorable Priuie Councell MY LORD THe first assault which was euer made vpon mankind appeared in the shape of a question for in that manner did the Serpent sett vpon Eue and the victorie then purchased hath euer since animated the Viperous brood of that arch-enemie to encounter the Church of God with the same engin Aristotles positiue formes of disputing sute not so well with their distempered materials as those of Socrates which conclude in Questions As it was at the building of Babel so is it now in Babylon their confounded language serues onely to aske and demand not to reply For what are the cryes of Rome which more frequently walke the streets and fill them with lowder clamours then those of London other then these Whereupon doe you lastly ground your beliefe How doe you know the Scriptures to be the Word of God Where was your Church in all ages If the Church of Rome professe not the same faith which anciently it did when did it alter or varie from her first integritie Argumentations of other natures are forbidden the Laytie vnder paine of curse this kinde onely of disputing by Questions is dispensed vnto the rudest by the prouerb which saith An Ideot may propound more in an houre then the learnedst in a Kingdome can resolue in a yeere Hauing therefore discoursed vpon these subiects partly in some Lectures had in a famous Metropolitan Church of this Kingdome where for a time abiding I aduentured to thrust in my Sickle into the Haruest of more worthy Labourers partly in my seuerall attendances vpon our late Soueraigne of happy Memorie and his Gracious Maiestie now being I presume in humble acknowledgment of your noble fauours conferred vpon me to present these my poore endeauours to your honourable protection beseeching your Lordship to passe a fauourable construction vpon my boldnesse and to accept of them as from him who is and alwayes will remayne Your Lordships humbly deuoted ED. CHALONER The Contents of the first Part of this Booke SECT I. THe Preface and partition of the ensuing subiect pag. 1. SECT II. What act of Faith is implyed in this Article of the Church and the errours of Romish Interpreters touching the same pag. 3. SECT III. The Romanists distractions touching the Church set downe in eight Gradations SECT IIII. The palpable abuse offered the Laytie by obtruding the Church vnto them as their soueraigne Iudge displayed by the present practice of the Iesuites pag. 26. SECT V. The obiections out of the Scriptures touching the Churches infallibilitie answered pag. 30. SECT VI. The obiection drawne from the question how wee may know the authoritie sense puritie and perfection of the Scriptures handled and resolued pag. 36. SECT VII The new sleights and deuices which the Iesuites vse in enforcing these arguments touching the Church and the Scriptures pag. 51. The Contents of the second Part. SECT I. THe first way whereby one may know the Church to bee Catholike or Vniuersall pag. 71. SECT II. The second way whereby one may know the Church to be Catholike or Vniuersall Together with an Application of the same to the present question of these times touching the existency of our Church in all Ages pag. 83. Errata Page 58. The â— which is in lin 7. ought to be in lin 14. ibid. lin 12. for obligation r. Religion ibid. lin 14. for but search r. but by search pag. 91. lin 19. for The fift r. The sixt Credo Ecclesiam Sanctam Catholicam I beleeue the holy Catholike Church SECT I. The Preface and partition of the ensuing subject THis parcell of the Creed how compendious soeuer it seems in wordes yet is it in signification so ample that if the Iesuites Comment exceedes not the Text this alone is an abridgement of Diuinitie this a Catechisme sufficient to engrosse the Layties whole studie and beliefe It is not a matter of small consequence to them which oppose names to things and triumph in the naked sounds of Church and Catholike whether you apparell the sense in any other furniture of Language then this they cannot reply as Demosthenes did to Aeschines wheÌ„ being vpbrayded with the improper vse of a word hee answered that the fortunes of Greece consisted not therein No in hoc sit a sum fortunae Romae in these Sillables the fortunes of Rome are entrench'd not the seuen Hils whereon shee is seated not her extended Wals whose auncient Tracts are almost enâ—omb'd with Age not her Castle of Saint Angelo are halfe so relied vpon by her as this single Article For why Shee hopes the Church will serue her for a Cittadle or Towre of defence Holynesse will colour her title and Catholicke will from all quarters furnish her with a voluminous Armie of ancient and experienced souldiers Howsoeuer therefore I am not able to vndertake this subiect either with that power or skill as those which haue preceded me in the same yet because as Rome was not built in a day so neither can shee bee surueied in an houre or as shee is the Beast with seuen heads and ten hornes resembling Hydra which as soone as Hercules had smitten off one head maintained the fight with another so there may remaine after those greater labours of others something for vs of succeeding times and ages to meete withall Be it as it will I shall not thinke my paines mispent if whilest others haue pared off an head my weaker strookes force her but so far as to shrinke in a horne But to leaue Prefaces and come to the handling of the point The words now read vnto you containing in them a matter of Faith and Beliefe doe present two thinges to our consideration Viz. 1. First the act of Faith in these words tacitely implied I beleeue 2. Secondly the obiect of this Faith the Church pourtraited and described by two properties Viz. 1. Sanctitie in that it is called Holy 2. Vnjuersalitie in that it is stiled Catholicke SECT II. What act of Faith is implied in this Article of the Church and the errours of Romish interpreters touching the same COncerning the acte of this faith I beleeue though it be not prefixed to the beginning of this Article as neither to the rest which follow it yet is it to be vnderstood the former I beleeue which precedes the Article of
pronounce him to bee an Heriticke who after so great a pudder as hath beene kept about Saint Francis shall yet deny him to bee in heauen Secondly Turrecremata in his second booke de Ecclesia and Syluester in his summes do grant that the Pope may so farre as in him lyes endeà uour to establish his owne heresie and obtrude it vpon the Church nor doe Valentia and Bellarmine dissalow their position vnder these two prouiso's the one that if he doe it effectually then the contrary hath beene formerly determined by the Church so that the Church can then receiue no danger thereby of erring the other that if the contrary was neuer before determined then the Pope may indeed attempt it as did Ioh. 22. in a question touching the state of the soule after death but God in his prouidence will take such course as that he neuer shall accomplish it The fifth Gradation BVt fiftly grant for the matters that the Pope be this Church in determining any matter of Faith whatsoeuer yet is it not resolued clearely by them for the person in generall whether the Pope vpon which wee are so to relie bee the present Pope or whether the Popes deceased 1. For the voice of the Iesuites speakes this that it is the present Pope nay Gregorie de Valentia is so confident therein that neque Scriptura sacra saith hee neque etiam sola traditio si ab ea separes praesentem in ecclesia authoritatem est illa authoritas infallibilis magistra fidei c. that is neither the Scriptures nor yet traditions if you separat from the present authoritie in the Church is that infallible mistresse of Faith Iudge of controuersies So Bellarmine omnium conciliorum veterum omnium dogmatum firmitas pendet ab authoritate praesentis Ecclesiae the strength of all ancient Councells and all assertions doth depend vpon the authoritie of the present Church and their reasons alleadgedare for that without the authoritie of the present Church wee neither can be assured of the certainty of Traditions and Councells nor of the sense meaning of them 2. But contrariwise the case being put as you haue heard by Turrecremata and Siluester that the Pope may doe what lyes in him to propose an heresie both Valentia and Bellarmine grant the position not to be impossible vpon condition that the heresie haue beene condemned formerly by the Church for then according to their doctrine the Church is to examin the errors of the present Pope by truthes resolued by precedent Popes So that if in all points necessarie to saluation the truth haue beene already determined by former Popes as in 1600. yeeres space they haue had leasure enough to doe it the present Pope ceaseth to bee a competent Iudge in such matters hee may erre touching them hee may doe his best indeuour to obtrude vpon the Church heresies concerning them nay hee stands himselfe to bee arrained at the barre and Tribunall of his Clergie whether he be Orthodoxe or no and that by the prescripts of his predecessors The sixt Gradation SIxtly graunt for the Person in generall that it bee the present Pope which is the Church in that no danger can accrue from the Popes propounding an heresie if that heresie haue beene formerly condemned because as they say the Church may then know him not to bee their Shepherd but a Wolfe yet is it not agreed or determined sufficiently amongst them for the meanes how the Church may bee able to iudge or truly discerne him to be such an one 1. For they which hold a Generall Councell to be aboue the Pope and that it cannot erre as Gerson Cameracensis and others aboue mentioned doe hold likewise that the Pope so erring may bee iudged both for his person and doctrine by the church in a Generall Councell 2. But they which hold a Generall Councell not to be aboue the Pope but that wanting his companie it may erre euen in matters of faith as Bellarmine Valentia Cajetan Turrecremata and others these disable any for being competent Iudges of the Popes doctrine For howsoeuer they may pretend that the Councell proceeding according to former Popes declarations cannot erre yet because they teach that the certaintie sense of former Decrees depends vpon the iudgement of the present Pope I cannot see what meanes may according to their opinion be affoorded for the triall of the Popes doctrine if he should chance to erre The seuenth Gradation SEauenthly graunt for the meanes that the Church neuer neede to passe verdict vpon the Popes doctrine yet is it not agreed vpon by them for the See whether the Popedome bee necessarily vnited to the See of Rome so that the word Roman for ought they know assuredly is not conuertible with Catholike but that he which brags he is a Roman Catholike to day may if the Pope should chance to die prooue a Geneua Catholike tomorrow 1. For Dominicus a Soto vpon the fourth of the Senten saith that the Apostolicall seate and power of vniuersall Bishop is annext to the Bishoprick of Rome onely jure Ecclesiastico that is not by the Law of God but by the Churches constitution so that by the authoritie of the Church a Bishop of another See may be chosen Pope And Bellarmine graunts that it is no matter of faith that the Apostolicall seate may not bee separated from the Church of Rome forasmuch as neither Scripture nor Tradition doe auouch it 2. But Canus Driedo Turrecremata and Gregorie de Valentia doe hold the contrarie that the Bishop of Rome is Peters successor not onely by the constitution of the Church but also by the institution of Christ though Valentia confesseth varias hac de re doctorum sententias that the opinions of the Doctors be diuers in this point The eighth Gradation EIghtly for I shall not yet leaue them graunt for the See that the Bishop of Rome bee the ordayned Successour of Peter by the institution of Christ not onely in the Popedome but also in the particular See of Rome yet is it not certayne for the particular person of this or any present Pope whether hee bee the true and lawfull Bishop of Rome or no 1. For although Gregorie de Valentia doth thinke that Gods prouidence will alwayes secure the Church of a lawfull Pope 2. Yet hee confesseth that graue Doctors doe admit the case as possible and this according to them may fall out diuers wayes First if the Pope be promoted by Simonie and that this is not impossible Aquinas affirmes it 2a. 2a. q. 100. where hee saith Papa potest incurrere vitium Simoniae sicut quilibet alius the Pope may incurre the sinne of Simonie as well as any other The which opinion Cajetan and others vpon Thomas doe follow and it is moreouer a clause in the Bull of Pope Iulius the second That if any Pope happen to be chosen simoniacally the same
suppose to bee infallible that Church being according to their supposition either the Pope in his chaire or a Generall Councell but are engaged altogether to the reports of particular Priests and Iesuites whom none will exempt from being subiect to error and deceit 2. To the second question if the exposition of the Church be not infallible how doe we know the sense and meaning of the Scriptures I answere that although all places of the Scripture are not alike perspicuous as all are not alike necessarie to saluation yet for the opening of the sense thereof so farre as is behoofefull for his Church God is the best Interpreter of his owne meaning expounding outwardly one place of the Word by another inwardly both opening ones eyes to discerne and enclining ones heart to assent vnto the truth As for those which cannot see but with the Popes spectacles and pretend the Scriptures to bee euery where throughout so ouershadowed with a mist that nothing presents it selfe cleerly to their view I wonder the lesse at them because their blindnesse is such that they cannot see to serue God without burning Tapers and lighted Candles at noone day Now on the other side I demand of them if one cannot know the certaine meaning and sense of the Scriptures vnlesse the exposition of the Church be infallible 1. Wherefore hath not the Church of Rome all this while publisht a set interpretation vpon any one book of the Bible considering that they say it is so necessarie and that the Popes Commentaries vpon it haue for so many Marts beene expected 2. How a man which cannot discerne the sense of the Scriptures in plaine places shall be able to shun the processe in infinitum and not runne his wits out of breath considering that according to the Papists themselues the voyce of the Church vttered in former Decrees requires the exposition of the present Church meaning the Pope and that the Churches Canons are inuol'd with no lesse if not more perplexeties than the Scriptures I could instance in ancient Councells as the Nicen and aske whether the sixth Canon wherein these wordes be Quoniam talis est Episcopo Romano consuetudo are to bee vnderstood according to the opinion of Ruffinus or Balsamon or Caranza or Bellarmine which foure are recounted by Bellarmine lib 2. de Rom. Pont. c. 13. But because I desire to confine my selfe to that which is pure Roman let 's cast the water of the Tridentine Synagogue and see whether that runnes so cleere as they pretend I aske therefore first touching the Canonicall bookes the number and names whereof the Fathers therein assembled were so carefull to set downe Sess 4. whether that which we call the Apocrypha Esther be there canonized as Bellarmine affirmeth lib. 1. de verbo Dei c. 7. or whether that booke and those which are called additaments bee there excluded from the Canon as Sixtus Senensis in lib. 1. 8. biblioth sanct doth auouch Secondly for the intention required by the Councell in him which administers the Sacrament Sess 7. I aske whether the wordes of the Councell be to be vnderstood according to Catharinus opinion in opusc or Bellarmines lib. 1. de Sacram in Gen. c. 27. Thirdly I aske how it comes to passe that Priscian and our old Grammarians will not serue to construe the text of the Councel if the Roman Church can endite with so perspicuous a stile but that Sess 7. Can. 8. Opus operatum must contrarie to the Grammar rules as Bellarmine confesseth lib. 2. de Sacram. c. 1. be vnderstood passiuely And that in the sixth Sess cap. 5. de iustif it is said Neque homo ipse nihil omninò agat wherein contrarie to Grammar are two negatiues expressed which cannot bee resolued into an affirmatiue Fourthly if the interpretations of the Church are so facile and easie whether was the Councell of Trents meaning concerning Originall sinne and Iustification the same that Dominicus a Soto affirms it to be or that which Ambrosius Catharinus attributes vnto it seeing both were present at the drawing of the Canons both presented books for proofe of their opinions to the Councell which are now extant and the Councell it selfe being appealed vnto could not decide the Controuersie nor agree what was her owne meaning therein To the third question if the tradition of the Church be not infallible how shall we know whether the Scriptures be perfect and entire or maimed and corrupted I answer that there is a double perfection of the Scriptures the one of integrall parts which appertaines to the perfection of each booke Chapter and verse in particular the other of essentiall parts which pertaine to the perfection of sauing knowledge If the question be of the integrall puritie and perfection how I know that there be copies of the Scriptures in the world by iudicious comparing whereof light may bee giuen to correct all manifest errors and defects crept into the Text whether by negligence or ignorance of the transcribers or otherwise I answer that I am assured thereof by the promises of God in generall to establish a perpetuitie of sauing knowledge and true beliefe in his Church and consequently by that firme foundation of his prouidence which appointing the end to witte eternall life will neuer suffer the meanes conducting thereunto either to perish or being disparaged by corruptions to become fruitlesse Neither doth Greg de Valentia run for farther proofes to secure the Popes legitimacie and salue the danger to which the Latine vulgar edition of the Bible is lyable by often impressions then this prouidence of God But if the question be of the essentiall puritie and perfection of the Scriptures how one may be assured that so much as contaynes points necesarie to saluation is preserued perfect and entire in them I answer that to resolue ones selfe herein he hath besides the generall promises of God and his neuer fayling prouidence an experimentall knowledge also springing from that amplitude of comfort and consolation which Gods Spirit effects by the Scriptures in the hearts and consciences of true beleeuers For such is the vnion and coherence of points necessarie to saluation on with the other that one workes not his proper effect where the other is not at least in some reasonable and conuenient measure knowne and beleeued Now on the contrarie I demaund of them if we cannot bee assured of the puritie and perfection of the Scriptures vnlesse the Tradition of the Church concerning it bee infallible how a man can euer bee resolued thereof from the Church of Rome Which first could neither heretofore preserue her Latine vulgar editions of the Bible which shee preferres before the originall from manifest Corruptions as may appeare by the corrections of Origen and Hierom nor at this day hath been able to Canonize any edition without permitting faults solecismes Barbarismes Misinterpretations Ambiguities Additions Substractions Transpositions Immutations Deprauations and the like which are confest by
shall please God farther to enlighten one as in the question of the authoritie of the Scriptures the knowing of the Instrument or Pen-man whether it bee Saint Matthew or Saint Paul is not simply so requisite as to know the principall Authour which is God nor to determine punctually of the wordes so oblieging as to beleeue the sense nor againe of the sense of some places and texts as of other all are to striue vnto perfection but as the difference is in the gifts of arte grace and nature so shall the difference be in the measure of the knowledge of all or some The third trick and sleight of theirs which they put vpon the people in this kinde is that bidding them to vrge vs to proue the Scriptures to bee the Word of God or that they are cleare and easie in points necessarie to saluation and knowing that the chiefe proofes vpon which we rest are embowelled in the very body of the Text itselfe first they forbid the lay people to reade the Scriptures vnlesse they obtayne speciall licence from the Bishop or Inquisitor to doe it as appeares by the fourth rule of prohibited bookes which is at the end of the Tridentine Councell And the granting of these licences is now againe taken away by Clement the eighth as may bee seene in his Index of prohibited bookes printed at Paris by Laurentius Sonius and cited also by Iustinianus a Priest of the Congregation of the Oratorie lib. 1. de Scriptura cap. 9. Secondly because they know that some people will bee itching notwithstanding this prohibition to looke into the Scriptures and to see whether matters bee so as wee affirme them to bee therefore they crie downe our Bibles and present a Bible of their owne translation which to argue the obscuritie of the Scriptures they patch vp with such gallimaufrie and inke-horne termes that an ordinarie man may bee confounded with the strangenesse of the wordes As in the old Testament publisht by the Colledge of Doway in stead of Fore-skin they put Prepuce Gen. 17. for Passeouer Phase for vnleauened bread Azims Exod. 12. for high places Excelses 2. King 15. for the holy of holyest Sancta Sanctorum 1. Chr. 6. Nor are they lesse ridiculous in the new Testament set forth by the Colledge of Rhemes where you haue these English wordes piping hot out of the Popes mint Depositum Exinanited Parasceue Didragmes Neophyte Gratis with the spirituals of wickednesse in the Celestials and many more labouring by what meanes they can as our learned Fulke shewes in his Preface to that Testament to suppresse the light of Truth vnder one pretence or another Their fourth stratagem is that after their lay disciples haue giuen so loud a defiance to our Cause as may make simple standers by conceiue so great a crie must needes carrie some wooll with it then if by chance any of the companie vndertake to answere them to fetch them off againe with aduantage by making it knowne afore-hand vnto their Pupils that howsoeuer they may bragge it is forbidden yet vnto a lay man vnder paine of excommunication to dispute of matters of faith which constitution is in the Popes owne Decretals and Emanuel Sa hath it in his Aphorismes voce fides By which meanes they both barre vs after iust prouocation to informe and satisfie their adherents and with all cherish presumption in their followers as not being silenced by the weaknesse of their cause but by the command of their Superiors Their fifth deuice is that if notwithstanding the prohibition to dispute aboue mentioned some of their lay Auditors should be so hardie as to venture a skirmish then to diuert them from reasoning out of the Scriptures least the light thereof should some manner of way or other display it selfe they busie their heads with questions aboue their capacitie as where was our Church before Luther what the exposition of the Doctors in all Ages what the Doctrine of the Fathers Councells and Schoolemen which is the common Theame of this Age hoping that either a few old wiues fables or fragments of antiquitie shall serue to puffe vp their men with conceit of victorie where they finde not equall opponents or where they doe yet they shall not abate thereby any whit of their courage as being for want of artes and languages vnable to see the point of the weapon which is darted at them I meane the truth of those things which are alleaged Their sixt deuice is that if any of their laytie notwithstanding those prohibitions and this diuersion will presume so farre vpon the indulgencie of their ghostly Fathers as to hazard a dispute out of the Bible yet to doe it with aduantage enough on their side they counsell him to make no thrusts but to lie onely vpon the ward and therein to enioyne vs to shew the articles of Faith established in our Church in iust so many wordes and syllables in the Scriptures and as if grace destroyed nature to forbid vs the benefit of Reason or Consequences 1. If we infer any thing by way of consequence they tell vs that wee violate that which wee haue promised to the World which is to proue all our Assertions out of the pure Word of God Whereas according to the grand principle of Logicke De omni de nullo a truth deduced out of another truth is acknowledged to bee contayned therein for otherwise it could not bee drawne from thence So that to bee in the Word of God is to bee the Word of God As Gregorie de Valentia saith of the more distinct conceptions of any obiect that they are contayned implicitly in the more generall as particulars are in vniuersalls And therefore Bellarmine speaking of matters of faith makes those things as well to bee knowne by certaintie of faith which are deduced by necessarie consequences from the Scriptures as those which are immediatly contayned therein 2. If we deduce an article from premises whereof any one proposition is not in the Bible though otherwise it be a principle of nature as for example that a body cannot be in two places at the same time they aske how such a Conclusion can bee of faith or how wee can auerre that our articles of faith are proued out of the pure Word of God considering that a Conclusion takes his efficacie not from one but from both the premises Which argument concludes our Aduersaries as much if not more then it doth vs. For the maynest principle of their to wit That those which professe the faith vnder the Bishop of Rome are the Church of Christ cannot be deduced by Bellarmines logick but search made in the Court Rolls of Nature and by borrowing an Euidence from thence to supply the place of one of the premisses But to speake more punctually we say that those principles of Nature which we imploy in this kinde are also vertually included in the Scriptures though not expresly As hee that faith Socrates is a