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sense_n apostle_n speak_v word_n 3,803 5 4.2444 3 true
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A93091 A treatise of liturgies, power of the keyes, and of matter of the visible church. In answer to the reverend servant of Christ, Mr. John Ball. By Thomas Shephard, sometimes fellow of Emanuel-Colledge in Cambridge, and late pastour of Cambridge in New-England. Shepard, Thomas, 1605-1649. 1652 (1652) Wing S3148; Thomason E681_17; ESTC R206794 175,099 213

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other_o gift_n set_v in_o the_o church_n he_o apply_v also_o to_o they_o chap._n 14._o whereas_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o exercise_n of_o divers_a gift_n in_o that_o church_n when_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o vers_n 23_o so_o he_o speak_v the_o same_o of_o himself_o a_o apostle_n vers_fw-la 6._o when_o i_o come_v &c_n &c_n we_o take_v notice_n of_o divers_a reason_n allege_v from_o the_o chapter_n that_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o catholic_n church_n but_o they_o do_v not_o enforce_v it_o for_o grant_v such_o thing_n be_v true_a of_o the_o catholic_n church_n in_o a_o sense_n viz._n that_o in_o it_o god_n work_v all_o in_o all_o in_o it_o be_v diversity_n of_o gift_n etc._n etc._n yet_o the_o apostle_n scope_n be_v to_o speak_v to_o this_o church_n as_o have_v be_v show_v and_o all_o be_v true_o applyable_a unto_o it_o this_o church_n come_v behind_o in_o no_o good_a gift_n chap._n 1._o 7._o this_o church_n be_v one_o body_n vers_fw-la 27._o and_o baptize_v into_o one_o body_n whether_o jew_n or_o gentile_n bond_n or_o free_a the_o member_n of_o this_o church_n need_v the_o help_n one_o of_o another_o must_v not_o make_v schism_n in_o the_o body_n must_v care_v one_o for_o another_o etc._n etc._n yea_o apostle_n as_o well_o as_o other_o gift_n be_v in_o the_o church_n 1_o cor._n 3._o 1._o 1_o cor._n 14._o 6._o so_o that_o from_o the_o scope_n and_o drift_n of_o the_o apostle_n all_o these_o office_n and_o gift_n may_v be_v and_o be_v set_v in_o corinth_n and_o therefore_o this_o place_n will_v not_o evince_v a_o catholic_n organical_a body_n yet_o we_o mean_v not_o that_o apostle_n be_v wedge_v in_o here_o but_o they_o be_v set_v also_o in_o every_o church_n as_o also_o teacher_n be_v in_o every_o church_n but_o each_o according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o office_n the_o one_o limit_v the_o other_o not_o second_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o in_o this_o discourse_n the_o apostle_n also_o vers_fw-la 12_o 13._o intend_v the_o whole_a mystical_a body_n 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visible_a member_n of_o the_o flock_n of_o christ_n understand_v that_o particular_a church_n out_o of_o which_o they_o be_v cast_v so_o the_o right_n of_o baptism_n belong_v to_o their_o infant_n which_o be_v so_o they_o be_v not_o without_o that_o church_n though_o debar_v unjust_o of_o the_o present_a communion_n with_o it_o unless_o he_o renounce_v that_o church_n or_o other_o reply_n second_o if_o such_o church_n renounce_v it_o as_o be_v no_o member_n of_o a_o politic_a spiritual_a fellowship_n be_v without_o than_o the_o member_n of_o one_o church_n be_v without_o unto_o another_o etc._n etc._n answ_n this_o objection_n we_o have_v have_v and_o answer_v oft_o before_o in_o a_o word_n there_o can_v be_v the_o like_a reason_n no_o not_o in_o respect_n of_o that_o other_o church_n who_o may_v in_o a_o due_a order_n of_o christ_n persecute_v the_o censure_n against_o they_o though_o not_o complete_o among_o themselves_o which_o can_v be_v say_v of_o such_o as_o have_v not_o join_v 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not_o the_o apostle_n john_n express_o call_v they_o without_o that_o forsake_v the_o fellowship_n of_o the_o church_n 1_o john_n 2._o 19_o saying_n they_o go_v out_o three_o be_v not_o the_o catechumeni_fw-la of_o old_a in_o this_o respect_n without_o and_o the_o lapse_v in_o time_n of_o persecution_n and_o the_o like_a who_o in_o those_o zealous_a and_o severe_a time_n of_o church_n discipline_n be_v not_o only_o say_v to_o be_v without_o but_o stand_v without_o though_o weep_v and_o pray_v as_o penitent_n at_o the_o church_n door_n sometime_o for_o two_o or_o three_o year_n and_o after_o this_o degree_n of_o preparation_n for_o entrance_n into_o the_o church_n which_o they_o call_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d there_o be_v three_o more_o before_o they_o be_v receive_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n which_o severity_n though_o we_o approve_v not_o yet_o it_o may_v mollify_v the_o mind_n of_o the_o godly_a learned_a that_o be_v apt_a to_o be_v offend_v at_o such_o a_o word_n from_o we_o 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may_v ordinary_o be_v have_v or_o give_v to_o such_o as_o set_v loose_a from_o all_o society_n the_o apostle_n have_v extraordinary_a power_n be_v general_a pastor_n over_o all_o person_n believe_v as_o well_o as_o church_n and_o therefore_o at_o some_o time_n by_o special_a guidance_n of_o the_o spirit_n they_o may_v do_v that_o which_o ordinary_a pastor_n may_v not_o do_v reply_n second_o as_o the_o seal_n so_o the_o word_n of_o salvation_n preach_v and_o receive_v be_v a_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n if_o by_o preach_v be_v mean_v the_o give_n of_o the_o word_n unto_o a_o people_n to_o abide_v and_o continue_v with_o they_o and_o consequent_o the_o receive_n of_o it_o at_o least_o in_o profession_n than_o it_o be_v proper_a to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n answ_n we_o grant_v in_o some_o sense_n it_o be_v a_o privilege_n and_o proper_a to_o the_o church_n so_o to_o have_v the_o word_n but_o this_o no_o way_n take_v away_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o seal_n 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member_n of_o the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n but_o of_o no_o particular_a society_n reply_n you_o say_v it_o be_v evidence_v in_o that_o a_o christian_n as_o athanasius_n for_o a_o example_n may_v be_v cut_v off_o unjust_o from_o the_o particular_a visible_a church_n wherein_o he_o be_v bear_v and_o yet_o remain_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n visible_a orthodox_n church_n answ_n this_o case_n prove_v nothing_o for_o look_v how_o such_o a_o christian_a stand_v to_o the_o catholic_n so_o he_o stand_v to_o the_o particular_a church_n if_o he_o be_v unjust_o censure_v as_o he_o remain_v before_o god_n a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n so_o also_o the_o particular_a church_n for_o clavis_fw-la errans_fw-la non_fw-la ligat_fw-la and_o in_o respect_n of_o man_n and_o communion_n with_o other_o church_n in_o the_o seal_n if_o they_o receive_v he_o be_v satisfy_v that_o he_o be_v unjust_o cast_v out_o they_o may_v receive_v he_o not_o for_o his_o general_a interest_n in_o the_o catholic_n church_n but_o in_o respect_n of_o his_o true_a membership_n in_o the_o particular_a church_n that_o unjust_o cast_v he_o out_o whereas_o if_o the_o church_n be_v not_o persuade_v but_o that_o he_o be_v just_o cast_v out_o of_o the_o particular_a they_o ought_v not_o to_o admit_v he_o to_o seal_n be_v he_o as_o orthodox_n as_o athanasius_n himself_o in_o doctrine_n and_o as_o holy_a in_o his_o life_n reply_n though_o there_o be_v no_o universal_a congregation_n nor_o can_v be_v imagine_v yet_o there_o be_v and_o have_v be_v many_o visible_a assembly_n or_o society_n true_a church_n of_o christ_n to_o who_o the_o prerogative_n of_o the_o seal_n be_v give_v which_o have_v not_o be_v unite_v and_o knit_v together_o into_o one_o congregation_n or_o society_n in_o church-order_n for_o every_o society_n in_o
which_o can_v be_v say_v of_o seal_n and_o censure_n be_v cultus_fw-la institutus_fw-la reply_n second_o a_o person_n baptize_v be_v not_o baptize_v into_o that_o particular_a congregation_n only_o but_o into_o all_o church_n and_o in_o every_o particular_a church_n have_v all_o the_o privilege_n of_o a_o baptize_v person_n and_o so_o to_o be_v esteem_v of_o they_o now_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o baptize_v person_n walk_v in_o the_o truth_n and_o able_a to_o examine_v himself_o be_v to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n as_o all_o circumcise_a person_n have_v right_o thereby_o to_o eat_v the_o passeover_n in_o any_o society_n where_o god_n shall_v choose_v to_o put_v his_o name_n there_o exod._n 4._o 47._o deut._n 16._o 1_o 1._o answ_n this_o seem_v to_o touch_v the_o question_n itself_o rather_o than_o the_o proposition_n of_o this_o four_o consideration_n but_o we_o shall_v answer_v to_o it_o as_o it_o stand_v 1._o here_o you_o grant_v that_o a_o person_n baptize_v be_v baptize_v unto_o a_o particular_a congregation_n which_o we_o accept_v as_o a_o yield_a of_o the_o question_n unaware_o 2._o if_o you_o mean_v that_o such_o have_v a_o liberty_n of_o communion_n in_o a_o way_n of_o brotherly_a love_n in_o all_o church_n where_o he_o come_v we_o grant_v so_o far_o as_o nothing_o in_o he_o just_o hinder_v but_o if_o you_o mean_v that_o he_o be_v baptize_v into_o all_o church_n so_o as_o to_o challenge_v a_o right_n of_o membership_n in_o they_o all_o we_o deny_v it_o as_o a_o position_n that_o will_v take_v away_o all_o distinction_n of_o church_n as_o we_o have_v former_o show_v 3._o we_o deny_v that_o the_o lord_n supper_n be_v the_o privilege_n of_o a_o baptize_v person_n able_a to_o examine_v himself_o &_o walk_v in_o the_o truth_n as_o a_o baptize_v person_n for_o then_o a_o papist_n convert_v to_o the_o truth_n able_a to_o examine_v himself_o have_v a_o right_a to_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o every_o church_n before_o he_o make_v any_o profession_n of_o his_o conversion_n and_o faith_n in_o any_o particular_a church_n for_o he_o may_v be_v such_o a_o baptize_v person_n and_o we_o may_v say_v the_o like_a of_o a_o excommunicate_a penitent_a 4._o we_o grant_v that_o a_o baptize_v person_n be_v not_o only_o baptize_v in_o to_o that_o particular_a church_n whereof_o he_o be_v first_o a_o member_n for_o if_o it_o be_v a_o seal_n of_o his_o initiation_n into_o that_o particular_a church_n only_o then_o he_o must_v be_v rebaptise_v as_o oft_o as_o he_o enter_v into_o another_o but_o he_o be_v baptize_v in_o the_o sense_n former_o show_v into_o the_o whole_a mystical_a body_n of_o christ_n and_o hence_o have_v jus_o ad_fw-la rem_fw-la or_o a_o remote_a right_n unto_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n every_o where_o but_o that_o therefore_o he_o have_v immediate_a right_n to_o the_o fruition_n of_o all_o when_o he_o be_v sever_v from_o that_o particular_a church_n wherein_o he_o be_v baptize_v that_o follow_v not_o for_o as_o he_o have_v this_o latter_a right_n in_o the_o first_o church_n wherein_o he_o be_v baptize_v so_o he_o must_v have_v it_o in_o any_o of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n afterward_o now_o if_o in_o the_o first_o church_n the_o fruition_n of_o ordinance_n come_v by_o orderly_o join_v to_o it_o so_o it_o must_v be_v afterward_o for_o as_o we_o say_v before_o such_o as_o the_o communion_n be_v such_o aught_o to_o be_v the_o union_n he_o that_o will_v have_v political_a communion_n with_o the_o political_a church_n of_o christ_n must_v be_v some_o where_o in_o political_a union_n with_o they_o otherwise_o one_o may_v have_v communion_n in_o all_o church_n &_o yet_o never_o unite_v himself_o to_o any_o one_o which_o loose_a walk_n we_o be_v persuade_v christ_n jesus_n will_v not_o allow_v 5_o the_o similitude_n from_o a_o circumcise_a person_n will_v not_o hold_v first_o because_o there_o be_v no_o parity_n between_o several_a family_n in_o the_o same_o church_n and_o several_a church_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n but_o rather_o several_a seat_n of_o communicant_n in_o the_o same_o church_n answer_v several_a family_n eat_v the_o passover_n in_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n second_o a_o edomite_n circumcise_a though_o he_o be_v convert_v and_o acknowledge_v the_o true_a god_n in_o his_o own_o country_n never_o so_o full_o yet_o may_v not_o eat_v the_o passover_n till_o he_o join_v to_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n as_o all_o other_o proselyte_n do_v &_o so_o be_v it_o here_o reply_n three_o there_o be_v not_o the_o same_o reason_n of_o every_o church_n privilege_n one_o may_v have_v right_a to_o some_o who_o may_v not_o meddle_v with_o other_o as_o member_n of_o one_o church_n may_v join_v in_o hear_v and_o prayer_n with_o another_o church_n but_o not_o meddle_v in_o election_n and_o ordination_n of_o their_o teacher_n and_o therefore_o the_o proposition_n be_v not_o so_o evident_a to_o be_v take_v without_o proof_n that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o admit_v a_o believer_n into_o communion_n in_o any_o church_n privilege_n who_o have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v answ_n what_o be_v here_o object_v from_o the_o liberty_n or_o restriction_n of_o church_n member_n in_o another_o congregation_n be_v answer_v before_o in_o the_o first_o objection_n and_o therefore_o the_o proposition_n may_v stand_v good_a for_o all_o that_o be_v here_o say_v 2_o that_o which_o be_v set_v down_o as_o the_o proposition_n be_v neither_o the_o same_o with_o that_o in_o our_o reason_n nor_o any_o way_n allow_v by_o we_o for_o we_o speak_v not_o here_o of_o power_n to_o admit_v but_o of_o the_o right_a to_o be_v partaker_n neither_o do_v we_o deny_v a_o power_n in_o officer_n to_o admit_v member_n of_o other_o church_n to_o the_o seal_n though_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v they_o 3_o if_o our_o proposition_n seem_v to_o need_v proof_n the_o reason_n of_o it_o be_v at_o hand_n because_o those_o that_o be_v the_o peculiar_a privilege_n or_o proper_a privilege_n or_o propriety_n of_o the_o church_n as_o seal_n and_o censure_n be_v of_o the_o same_o nature_n viz._n outward_a ordinance_n of_o christ_n ordain_v by_o he_o for_o the_o edification_n of_o his_o church_n and_o joint_o give_v to_o his_o church_n and_o therefore_o look_v to_o what_o church_n he_o have_v give_v the_o one_o he_o have_v give_v the_o other_o also_o if_o the_o one_o viz._n censure_n be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n of_o a_o visible_a congregation_n than_o the_o other_o they_o be_v all_o both_o seal_n and_o censure_n contain_v in_o the_o key_n which_o be_v give_v to_o the_o visible_a institute_v church_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n not_o to_o the_o catholic_n as_o such_o for_o a_o godly_a man_n just_o cast_v out_o of_o the_o particular_a church_n yet_o can_v be_v cast_v out_o of_o the_o catholic_n reply_n that_o visible_a believer_n baptize_v into_o a_o true_a church_n profess_v the_o true_a faith_n and_o walk_v in_o holy_a obedience_n and_o their_o seed_n shall_v be_v judge_v such_o as_o be_v without_o in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n because_o they_o be_v not_o external_o join_v as_o set_v member_n to_o some_o peculiar_a congregation_n in_o church_n covenant_n be_v affirm_v not_o prove_v answ_n come_v to_o the_o assumption_n of_o our_o argument_n it_o be_v express_v according_a to_o the_o frequent_a manner_n in_o this_o reply_n in_o such_o term_n as_o it_o be_v not_o affirm_v by_o we_o and_o therefore_o if_o it_o want_v proof_n blame_v not_o we_o our_o assumption_n be_v such_o as_o be_v not_o in_o church_n covenant_n be_v not_o capable_a of_o church_n censure_n where_o by_o be_v in_o church_n covenant_n we_o mean_v either_o implicit_o or_o explicit_o membership_n in_o any_o true_a church_n as_o in_o our_o answer_n we_o express_v to_o prevent_v mistake_n and_o this_o be_v prove_v from_o 1_o cor._n 5._o 12._o and_o in_o apply_v hereof_o we_o do_v not_o affirm_v that_o such_o be_v simple_o without_o in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n but_o 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cast_v his_o argument_n will_v have_v conclude_v so_o much_o if_o it_o have_v be_v suffer_v to_o speak_v out_o in_o the_o conclusion_n for_o in_o stead_n of_o say_v except_o such_o join_v to_o some_o church_n the_o sign_n will_v be_v darken_v and_o obscure_v the_o reason_n right_o conclude_v will_v have_v say_v fieri_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la it_o can_v be_v but_o the_o sign_n will_v be_v confound_v and_o therefore_o in_o his_o judgement_n it_o be_v unavoidable_a that_o such_o mix_v themselves_o with_o unbeliever_n that_o be_v without_o indeed_o proper_o in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n reply_n again_o doctor_n ames_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 17._o speak_v of_o infant_n to_o be_v receive_v say_v it_o be_v require_v first_o that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n by_o outward_a profession_n etc._n etc._n answ_n what_o you_o allege_v here_o out_o of_o doctor_n ames_n we_o confess_v show_v that_o he_o be_v very_o large_a in_o his_o charity_n about_o the_o baptise_v of_o infant_n 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the_o visible_a church_n and_o partaker_n of_o church_n privilege_n among_o we_o to_o the_o lord_n supper_n or_o their_o child_n to_o baptism_n because_o they_o be_v not_o enter_v into_o church-fellowship_n according_a to_o your_o order_n than_o it_o be_v unlawful_a though_o no_o such_o evil_a consequence_n be_v to_o be_v fear_v but_o if_o by_o accident_n some_o abuse_n shall_v fall_v out_o the_o evil_a be_v to_o be_v prevent_v by_o all_o lawful_a mean_n but_o the_o faithful_a be_v not_o to_o be_v debar_v utter_o of_o the_o order_n of_o god_n whereto_o they_o have_v right_a and_o title_n by_o his_o free_a grant_n and_o gracious_a institution_n answ_n we_o can_v but_o still_o complain_v of_o this_o liberty_n which_o be_v take_v in_o change_v the_o term_n of_o the_o question_n first_o that_o clause_n member_n of_o visible_a church_n be_v not_o in_o the_o position_n nor_o be_v it_o maintain_v by_o we_o in_o that_o sense_n neither_o do_v we_o limit_v church-fellowship_n to_o our_o order_n as_o it_o be_v call_v but_o acknowledge_v church_n defective_a in_o matter_n of_o order_n as_o be_v say_v in_o the_o answer_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v a_o apparent_a wrong_n to_o we_o and_o to_o the_o reader_n so_o oft_o to_o put_v in_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v not_o in_o the_o controversy_n second_o if_o it_o be_v unlawful_a by_o divine_a institution_n may_v not_o evil_a consequence_n be_v add_v and_o if_o both_o hold_n be_v not_o our_o reason_n the_o more_o strong_a what_o need_v then_o such_o a_o reply_n three_o we_o have_v oft_o grant_v a_o remote_a right_n but_o next_o and_o immediate_a we_o still_o deny_v and_o we_o conceive_v no_o other_o order_n of_o god_n in_o his_o church_n to_o prevent_v such_o evil_n then_o by_o join_v to_o the_o institute_v church_n of_o christ_n reply_n seal_n may_v be_v profane_v when_o the_o dispenser_n can_v help_v it_o but_o here_o be_v no_o fear_n or_o danger_n of_o such_o consequence_n necessary_a to_o follow_v for_o we_o speak_v not_o of_o all_o sort_n at_o random_n but_o of_o christian_n profess_v the_o faith_n entire_o lawful_o baptize_v know_v and_o approve_v to_o the_o wise_a and_o judicious_a visible_a member_n of_o the_o church_n among_o we_o sufficient_o know_v to_o you_o or_o orderly_o recommend_v etc._n etc._n answ_n the_o fear_n and_o danger_n in_o this_o case_n be_v more_o than_o so_o far_o off_o can_v easy_o be_v discern_v though_o the_o limitation_n be_v good_a in_o themselves_o yet_o the_o application_n of_o this_o description_n in_o the_o first_o part_n of_o it_o will_v open_v a_o door_n wide_a than_o many_o can_v imagine_v for_o many_o such_o in_o the_o judgement_n even_o of_o the_o wise_a come_v in_o to_o this_o state_n of_o temptation_n prove_v far_o otherwise_o even_o yourselves_o be_v judge_n if_o you_o be_v here_o we_o suppose_v the_o experience_n of_o the_o discovery_n god_n have_v make_v in_o these_o late_a trial_n of_o england_n among_o forward_a professor_n will_v teach_v our_o brethren_n to_o consider_v how_o many_o professor_n may_v prove_v here_o yet_o second_o if_o you_o add_v such_o as_o retain_v their_o membership_n in_o your_o church_n be_v recommend_v unto_o we_o by_o your_o church_n or_o by_o know_a godly_a minister_n we_o can_v then_o according_a to_o order_n receive_v they_o and_o avoid_v the_o confusion_n and_o inconvenience_n we_o object_v three_o if_o also_o it_o be_v take_v into_o the_o description_n know_v and_o sufficient_o approve_v of_o ourselves_o than_o the_o door_n be_v open_a to_o they_o to_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o the_o privilege_n thereof_o though_o they_o can_v settle_v in_o the_o place_n of_o their_o present_a abode_n and_o this_o way_n of_o order_n will_v prevent_v the_o inconvenience_n but_o if_o we_o come_v to_o put_v a_o difference_n any_o other_o way_n we_o can_v avoid_v it_o but_o great_a offence_n will_v be_v give_v to_o
that_o the_o apostle_n do_v walk_v by_o ordinary_a rule_n general_o reply_n four_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o receive_v the_o faithful_a etc._n etc._n be_v back_v on_o divine_a precept_n etc._n etc._n answ_n if_o you_o mean_v they_o baptize_v such_o without_o receive_v they_o into_o some_o particular_a church_n we_o deny_v this_o assumption_n upon_o the_o ground_n lay_v down_o before_o reply_n five_o in_o the_o first_o consideration_n you_o prove_v the_o seal_n to_o be_v the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n in_o ordinary_a dispensation_n by_o this_o passage_n of_o scripture_n then_o they_o that_o glad_o receive_v the_o word_n be_v baptize_v but_o if_o the_o apostle_n baptize_v by_o extraordinary_a dispensation_n in_o your_o sense_n this_o testimony_n be_v insufficient_a for_o that_o purpose_n answ_n although_o the_o print_a copy_n of_o our_o answer_n omit_v this_o proof_n whole_o and_o also_o rom._n 9_o 4_o yet_o in_o our_o true_a cypy_n we_o allege_v act_v 2_o 41_o 42._o 47._o wherein_o you_o will_v find_v not_o only_o this_o passage_n then_o they_o that_o glad_o receive_v the_o word_n be_v baptize_v but_o withal_o that_o they_o be_v add_v to_o the_o church_n and_o such_o a_o church_n as_o continue_v steadfast_o in_o the_o fellowship_n etc._n etc._n of_o the_o apostle_n likewise_o verse_n 47._o that_o the_o conversion_n and_o baptise_v of_o disciple_n be_v omit_v the_o join_n or_o add_v to_o the_o church_n be_v put_v in_o the_o stead_n thereof_o which_o proof_n as_o they_o be_v omit_v whole_o in_o the_o print_a copy_n so_o also_o you_o make_v no_o reply_n unto_o they_o second_o by_o these_o proof_n it_o may_v easy_o have_v be_v see_v that_o we_o do_v not_o look_v upon_o all_o the_o apostle_n act_n in_o this_o case_n of_o baptism_n as_o extraordinary_a but_o that_o their_o first_o and_o lead_v example_n be_v ordinary_a and_o in_o that_o order_n we_o plead_v for_o which_o if_o it_o have_v be_v regard_v much_o labour_n have_v be_v save_v in_o this_o dispute_n which_o have_v be_v spend_v to_o little_a purpose_n and_o our_o second_o reason_n reply_n in_o due_a order_n the_o seale●_n belong_v to_o they_o to_o who_o the_o grant_n be_v give_v but_o the_o grant_n be_v vouchsafe_v to_o the_o faithful_a and_o their_o seed_n forgiveness_n of_o sin_n etc._n etc._n and_o the_o benefit_n of_o the_o covenant_n be_v so_o link_v together_o that_o where_o one_o be_v grant_v none_o be_v deny_v etc._n etc._n answ_n it_o be_v true_a the_o seal_n belong_v to_o all_o they_o by_o a_o remote_a right_n to_o who_o the_o grant_n be_v give_v as_o have_v be_v oft_o say_v but_o not_o immediate_a yet_o in_o the_o very_o propound_v of_o this_o reason_n we_o may_v observe_v two_o thing_n that_o do_v cut_v the_o ●●ewes_n of_o it_o 1_o the_o limitation_n of_o due_a order_n which_o as_o have_v be_v say_v can_v no_o where_o be_v find_v but_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n let_v any_o show_n what_o order_n christ_n have_v put_v his_o catholic_n visible_a church_n into_o or_o where_o that_o order_n be_v to_o be_v see_v but_o in_o particular_a church_n by_o which_o order_n every_o one_o be_v bind_v to_o join_v to_o such_o church_n as_o well_o as_o to_o partake_v in_o the_o outward_a ordinance_n of_o god_n worship_n which_o be_v there_o only_o to_o be_v find_v second_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o not_o only_a forgiveness_n of_o sin_n but_o all_o other_o benefit_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n be_v link_v together_o and_o be_v the_o grant_v seal_v up_o in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o if_o so_o be_v not_o visible_a conjunction_n with_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n with_o all_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n and_o ordinance_n of_o the_o same_o part_n of_o that_o grant_n by_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n or_o of_o the_o gospel_n we_o suppose_v none_o will_v deny_v it_o why_o then_o shall_v not_o visible_a believer_n require_v and_o take_v up_o this_o part_n of_o the_o grant_n as_o well_o as_o the_o seal_n of_o it_o for_o sigillum_fw-la sequitur_fw-la donum_fw-la let_v they_o take_v this_o gift_n and_o the_o seal_n be_v ready_a for_o they_o and_o this_o may_v answer_v the_o first_o part_n of_o the_o reply_n about_o rom._n 4._o 11._o as_o also_o all_o the_o rest_n which_o follow_v be_v thing_n so_o oft_o repeat_v and_o answer_v before_o as_o make_v it_o tedious_a to_o all_o chap._n xiiii_o position_n 5._o that_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v so_o in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n that_o what_o the_o major_a part_n shall_v allow_v must_v be_v do_v though_o the_o pastor_n and_o governor_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o assembly_n be_v of_o another_o mind_n and_o that_o peradventure_o upon_o more_o substantial_a reason_n reply_n this_o question_n be_v much_o mistake_v for_o the_o demand_n be_v not_o whether_o in_o the_o congregation_n matter_n shall_v be_v carry_v by_o number_n of_o vote_n against_o god_n as_o you_o interpret_v the_o position_n but_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n so_o lie_v in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n as_o that_o sentence_n must_v proceed_v in_o externo_fw-la foro_fw-la according_a to_o the_o vote_n and_o determination_n of_o the_o major_a part_n and_o so_o in_o admission_n of_o member_n etc._n etc._n and_o though_o they_o have_v no_o power_n against_o god_n but_o for_o god_n yet_o in_o execution_n of_o that_o power_n they_o may_v be_v divide_v in_o judgement_n and_o one_o part_n must_v err_v now_o hence_o the_o question_n be_v move_v whether_o the_o power_n he_o so_o in_o the_o people_n that_o what_o the_o major_a part_n determine_v must_v stand_v answ_n if_o our_o whole_a answer_n have_v be_v attend_v unto_o it_o be_v so_o clear_a and_o full_a that_o it_o can_v not_o with_o any_o show_n of_o reason_n be_v subject_a to_o such_o a_o mistake_n to_o omit_v the_o first_o part_n of_o our_o answer_n affirmative_o wherein_o we_o cite_v mr._n parker_n as_o consent_v with_o he_o in_o the_o second_o part_n to_o the_o position_n as_o state_v our_o answer_n be_v plain_o negative_a that_o excommunication_n be_v not_o so_o seat_v neither_o aught_o to_o be_v so_o in_o any_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n what_o follow_v be_v our_o reason_n ground_v upon_o the_o last_o clause_n of_o the_o position_n because_o church_n ought_v to_o carry_v thing_n not_o by_o number_n of_o vote_n against_o god_n as_o this_o position_n imply_v but_o by_o strength_n of_o rule_n and_o reason_n according_a to_o god_n and_o for_o edification_n 2_o cor._n 13._o 8._o 2_o cor._n 10._o 8._o now_o let_v any_o judge_n whether_o the_o position_n do_v not_o imply_v such_o a_o absurdity_n so_o oft_o as_o thing_n shall_v be_v carry_v by_o the_o major_a vote_n against_o the_o officer_n and_o the_o rest_n have_v better_a reason_n and_o therefore_o we_o be_v apt_a to_o think_v that_o if_o the_o learned_a author_n have_v be_v so_o ready_a to_o embrace_v any_o syllable_n that_o lend_v to_o dislodge_v these_o thought_n of_o we_o as_o lean_v to_o separation_n he_o will_v have_v believe_v our_o plain_a negation_n of_o this_o position_n which_o indeed_o be_v according_a to_o our_o constant_a practice_n never_o follow_v the_o major_a part_n of_o vote_n against_o the_o officer_n but_o count_v it_o the_o duty_n of_o the_o officer_n in_o such_o case_n either_o to_o satisfy_v the_o conscience_n of_o the_o major_a part_n or_o lesser_a by_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n or_o to_o yield_v not_o to_o the_o vote_n but_o reason_n if_o they_o be_v stranger_n or_o to_o suspend_v the_o business_n and_o refer_v to_o the_o counsel_n of_o other_o church_n if_o they_o can_v agree_v but_o a_o division_n arise_v according_a to_o the_o pattern_n act._n 15._o reply_n among_o they_o that_o hold_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n some_o as_o fenner_n parker_n i._o d._n distinguish_v between_o the_o power_n itself_o which_o they_o give_v to_o the_o church_n and_o the_o execution_n which_o they_o confine_v to_o the_o presbytery_n other_o give_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n with_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o to_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o church_n or_o if_o in_o the_o dispensation_n they_o attribute_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o officer_n it_o be_v but_o as_o servant_n of_o the_o church_n from_o who_o they_o derive_v their_o authority_n and_o here_o lie_v the_o stone_n at_o which_o the_o separation_n stumble_v and_o which_o we_o conceive_v to_o be_v your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n wherein_o we_o require_v your_o plain_a answer_n but_o have_v receive_v no_o satisfaction_n you_o refer_v we_o to_o mr._n parker_n reason_n to_o prove_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n belong_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n who_o be_v of_o far_o differ_v judgement_n from_o he_o in_o the_o point_n itself_o and_o if_o your_o judgement_n and_o