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A81917 An epistolary discourse wherein (amongst other particulars) these following questions are briefly resolved. I. Whether or no the state should tolerate the independent Government? II.If they should tolerate it, how farre, and with what limitations? III. If they should tolerate it, what course should be taken to bring them to a conformity with the Presbyterials? Written by Mr. John Dury. To Mr. Tho. Goodwin. Mr. Philip Nye. Mr. Samuel Hartlib. Published by a friend, for more common use. Dury, John, 1596-1680. 1644 (1644) Wing D2859; Thomason E6_14; ESTC R11327 31,647 43

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property of every member wherewith God hath endued it as the eye the eare the nose the tongue the hand the feet are all members and as in one body and moving by one spirit are bound all to have the same care each for another yet their care is in a different way according to the place and property which they have in the body For some of these members have a more eminent place and property then others and according to the nature of it their care is commanded The members then which have their property and place in the head are commanded to care in the nature of the head which in comparison of the rest of the members is Authoritative thus the property of the eye is towards the foot and hand Authoritative namely to direct it by judging and discerning the way wherein to walke or the matter that is to be felt Now the property of the hand is not of this nature yet it careth for the body and it hath the faculty of feeling to none other end but the propertie of the facultie is not Authoritative and directing further then it is directed by the superiour Members or the faculties of the head By all which I intend to intimate thus much First that the Commandement of mutuall care doth not give to Members of an inferiour facultie any power to act above that which is in the nature of their place in the body far lesse to oversee or overrule the Rulers as the custome of some is or hath been And secondly that this same Commandement doth give to the Members of a superiour facultie a Charge to act lovingly according to the nature of their place and office in the body For the office of every Member doth make the actions done therein according to the Rule and to the end of Common good Authoritative and as it is in the Naturall so it is in the Spirituall and Mysticall body Therefore as in the head of the Naturall body there is a Senate of superiour Senses which in the acts of their Charges cannot be without Authority towards inferior Members so in the Mysticall body of the Church these Officers which partake of the Senses of the Head cannot be without Authoritie in the Acts of their Charges and their care which is recommended to them for the body in their charge is to be understood different herein from that which belongeth to the rest of the Members and if the looking to and caring thus for one another be an expresse Commandement of God as well to Ministers one towards another in their Charges and places as to Members each to others then it must be granted that the best Meanes to performe this duty is also commanded and if this be found to be the Presbyteriall Conjunction of Ministers then I must conceive that a Combination of the Ministers of many Churches is the compleat and entire seat of Church power over each Congregation so combined which is the thing whereof they made a question Now if this Relation of Ministeriall Authoritie and Respective Subjection for mutuall Edification be once setled then all other matters tending to Publike Edification will easily be determined in matters of Publike Worship for Uniformitie therein according to the Rules of the Word which to prevent scandals and divisions is absolutely necessary and that this Uniformitie may be obtained I conceive that these things should be taken notice of 1. That in and about the Acts of the Publike Worship of God some things are his own immediate Ordinances some things are not of that nature 2. His own immediate Ordinances as they are unalterable so they are of necessitie to be observed and must be done in his name 3. All things of another nature are not necessary but alterable and may not be done in his name 4. The things of an Alterable nature relate the bodily and Outward part of the Worship as it is clothed with Outward Circumstances For whatsoever is Spirituall and relating the inward truth and substance of the Worship is determined in the Word and not subject to Outward Circumstances 5. The power to determine what is Alterable and How it is to be altered for Publike Edification doth belong to those that have a Publike Charge in the Church 6. Yet in some Cases which may relate the Rights of the Civill Magistrate his power is not to be neglected but respected joyntly with the Church Officers 7. The limits of the joynt powers in cases of a mixt nature are to be taken from their different Objects Ends and Properties of Fundamentall Rights and Lawes of Government by which they attaine their End severally 8. No particular Church loseth her Right to order within her selfe matters of Particular Edification onely the occasions of Scandall to others must be avoyded and may be prevented by a Brotherly Communication of Reasons why things must be so ordered in a private way 9. Therefore the Uniformitie of Publike Worship is not to be esteemed by meere Circumstantials which ought not to be too precisely determined but by the Fulnesse of Substantials agreeing and by the consent of a Latitude under certaine Rules of Brotherly Correspondencie therein ●etwixt United Churches 10. The Manner of introducing new Orders to be observed or of altering any thing which hath been observed should not be without a due preparation of the understandings of that flock towards which the Alteration is to bee applied If these Positions be not denied I suppose that most of the Scrupulosities of the Non-Communionists may be resolved thereby in matters of Publike Order Decencie and Government about which they seeme to intend a Scholasticall disputation but I would entreat every one whose ayme is Publike Edification to beware of the disputes of that nature which may easily breed heat and needles contradictions about matters of no great consequence Or if they undertake them to agree with those with whom matters are to be discussed of the manner of debating which ought to be limited and regulated and free from all Personall reproaches which lay open the nakednes of other Infirmities or censure faults prejudicially For except these cautions be prudently used those that take in hand to dispute will lose their way and be taken off from the maine worke of the Ministerie which is to declare the Testimonie of Jesus without partialitie as it may be for the Edification of all We know and that experimentally that Knowledge doth puffe up the spirit but it is Charitie that doth edifie Now to maintaine the affections of Charitie in the bonds of Spirituall Unitie there is nothing so effectuall as the Way of Brotherly Consultation by which all can be said which in a Scholasticall or disputative way can be proposed and with more force by how much the ayme is more friendly and insinuating then that of a Contradictorie debate Thus I have briefly done with the last point of this Discourse where many other things might be insisted upon which I purposely omit as not being willing to descend unto Particulars which may be observed in the severall passages of the Apologeticall Narration Hereafter if it be found expedient and you require it I may adde an Appendix to this Discourse containing the same Till then and ever I commend you to the Grace and love of the God of Peace in whom I am Your faithfull friend and servant JOHN DVRT Hague 17 7 March 1644. FINIS
I come to the Third Question wherein the Remedie of the breach betwixt them and their Brethren is to be thought upon in case the State should not yield unto that Toleration which they doe require In this Case two things must be supposed First that the State will finde no such satisfaction in their Way as to thinke indifferently of it Secondly that they of the Non-Communion can finde as little satisfaction in the Presbyteriall Government For if either of these were they would either get a Toleration or need none The way must be then either to give satisfaction to their Brethren or to receive it from them I would advise then that they should labour to beget a good understanding betwixt them and their Brethren For if their difference doth arise from a scruple of Conscience the State is no competent Judge thereof but it should be brought unto the Tribunall of Jesus Christ and judged by his cleere Word amongst those that are Officers in his kingdome and if it be no scruple of Conscience then I see not why they should stand so much upō it why the conscience of the State should be troubled with it why the Church kept in so dangerous uncertainties for it I suppose then that it is a Scrupulositie of Conscience rather then any worldly Consideration which keeps them at a distance from their Brethren and if it be so the neerest way to receive satisfaction therein is to deale with Men that make no lesse Conscience of their wayes then they doe whose Consciences are ruled by the same Principles that theirs are who are every way alike and equall with them in the Kingdome of Christ and who seeme to be offended at their cariage in the Gospel as they seeme to be offended at theirs therefore they are bound mutually to take notice of and to give satisfaction unto each other not should the Civill Magistrate be troubled with a Judicature of meere Spirituall Matters Now the best Way to deale with one another for an Agreement in my opinion is this that either should propose to the other a faithfull Promise of mutuall love and willingnes to yield one to another in that wherein they shal see the will of God directing them to further the means of Mutuall and of Publike Edification This Promise being made they should intend to declare each to other their Sense of that wherein they conceive the Meanes of Mutuall and of Publike Edification to stand Now then give me leave to lay open my thoughts unto you that if by the Grace of God I may be able to let them see that they really agree in all those Meanes which are any way Fundamentall and that the way of making use of the same may be intended Uniformally by both sides each toward other then their difference may be composed and their hearts joyned in the Lord for the advancement of his glorie through the Unitie of the spirit in the bond of Peace I am perswaded then that they have both the same Sence of the New-Covenant of Grace whereby the Soules of believers are joyned to God in Christ This their Sence of this Fundamentall mysterie of Godlines may be declared from the cleare Words of Scripture which may be made a Fundamentall Confession of Faith as I have elsewhere in an Epistle to the Lord Forbes advised And to this ground of all Fundamentalls in Christianity all the points of necessary Doctrine and of duties of Practice which are no lesse Fundamentall in the profession of Christianity then the knowledge of Truths wherein they also fully agree may be referred For it is cleare that all which we either need to know or doe is onely needfull for this end to enable us to walke faithfully and uprightly with God according to the Tenour of his Covenant made with us in Christ This Declaration being agreed upon they should acknowledge themselves therein and thereby Brethren in Christ and Sonnes of the same heavenly Father Servants of the same Master set in his House and over his Houshold to bring all men by their Ministry through the Tenour of that Covenant unto him Here then they should take into consideration the duties of their Ministry to agree upon that which they should doe in it for Mutuall and for Publike Edification For seeing they take themselves to be Servants of the same Master sent forth by him in the same Commission to preach joyntly to the same people the same Word I conceive that it will be no hard matter if they know their Masters will to agree upon the Manner of doing his work But to proceed orderly herein the first Matter should be concerning the calling of Ministers for you know that no man may take this Honour unto himselfe but only he that is called by God unto it as Aaron was Heb. 5.4 Therefore they should determine from the Word and the Practice of the Churches of all Ages What it is to be lawfully called unto the Ministry and What it is to be lawfully called unto a Particular Congregation to exercise the Ministery therein If they agree in this which I hope they will doe by looking to the Word of God and following the Practice of the best Reformed Churches then their next care should be to consider what Rela●ion Fellow-servants in one and the same Worke of the Ministry should have one to another and how they should doe to strengthen one anothers hands and to prevent the occasion of scandalls And if they finde that they ought as Members or the same Body to have the same care one for another and that to shew this care to strengthen one another in their Ministeriall duties and to prevent scandalls nothing is so necessary as to doe all by mutuall Councell and joynt consent then they should agree upon the Forme of such Consultations and upon the Authority which their decrees ought to carry in matters of doubt Wherein as I would have them whom I call the Non-Communionists not to maintaine any thing which may seeme to exempt the Spirits of Prophets from being subject unto the Prophets from whence confusion and trouble will inevitably arise in the Churches So I would not have the Presbyteriall Brethren to presse upon the other any obligation to make them subject unto such decrees further then shall be necessary to make up breaches and prevent scandalis which otherwise will be unavoidable And this I make no doubt they will yeeld unto that the joynt Consent of many in a Spirituall Senate should sway the Spirit of one or of a few to submit it selfe in Circumstantiall Matters which are not precisely determined by the Word but left unto the generall Rules of Christian discretion because the Apostle saith that the wisdome which is from above is peaceable gentle and easie to be entreated Jam. 3.17 from whence it followeth that such as are endued with this wisdome will easily be entreated and not selfe conceited but yeelding to the Common advice of their Brethren in matters