Selected quad for the lemma: sense_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	abraham_n	covenant_n	seed_n	2,017	5	9.1132	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85045	A discourse of the visible church. In a large debate of this famous question, viz. whether the visible church may be considered to be truely a church of Christ without respect to saving grace? Affirm. Whereunto is added a brief discussion of these three questions. viz. 1. What doth constitute visible church-membership. 2. What doth distinguish it, or render it visible. 3. What doth destroy it, or render it null? Together with a large application of the whole, by way of inference to our churches, sacraments, and censures. Also an appendix touching confirmation, occasioned by the Reverend Mr. Hanmore his pious and learned exercitation of confirmation. By Francis Fulwood minister of the gospel at West-Alvington in Devon.	Fullwood, Francis, d. 1693.	1658 (1658)	Wing F2500; Thomason E947_3; ESTC R207619	279,090	362

ancient people may not be excommunicated should of it self put the younger out of the Church or that wickednesse which cannot put elder persons out with censure should be thus effectual to exclude youth just at such a crisis or age 4. Why then are not such persons whose ignorance or want of the answer of a good conscience hath made their interest in the Covenant null upon their after-learning c. to be re-baptiz'd 5. Yea if this confirmation be indeed a new admission viz. upon the account of personal or habitual holinesse and the former ground of our Church and Covenant interest viz. foederal holinesse do passe no further then such an age why are not all at this transition rebaptiz'd we are no longer in Covenant then the reason of being in Covenant holds and the seal of the Covenant holds no longer then our being in Covenant continues and it seemes the reason of our former being in Covenant is now lost and we enter Covenant again upon our personal a new account why then must not we have the seale of entrance applied also viz. baptisme But Lastly this is most expressely confuted by the former instance of Ishmael he was borne in the Church he hath sigillum foederis put upon him and therein he continueth though wicked until he is by violence cast out as the Scripture witnesseth Gal. 4. 30. 2. Then there is no refuge left but that such as are found ignorant c. at yeares of discretion are to be cast out of the Church by Excommunication If this be said 1. I answer that it is hereby granted me that the interest of ignorant persons c. is real until they be excommunicated and consequently that such persons may be that is actually though not lawfully real members of the visible Church as have no saving grace which as much as I need desire in general yea or in this particular for then this Church-membership is continued upon the account of foederal holinesse not saving grace untill this violent accident of excommunication dissolve it 2. Howsoever this doth not at all distinguish the crisis or period of the beginning of the Adult estate which we are now upon for no reason can possibly be shewne why ignorance or scandal should deserve this censure more at this time or state of passing then at any other age of our lives 3. But lastly let me be answered did we ever reade either in Scripture or any history of any Church that ignorance or unreadinesse to answer or learne when catechiz'd doth render youth so censurable as to be wholly extirpated and cast out of all relation to the Church therefore and yet let us bethink our selves is not this the very case Let me conclude with plainnesse a childe is borne in the Church and sealed therein in his infancy and therein continues until ripenesse of yeares and all this by vertue of his first Covenant-holinesse I desire to know whether this his Covenant-holinesse and his relation to the Church so long held and continued till now thereby doth now expire what Scripture or reason depriveth him of it the authority of what Church hath declared it void what can cast him out but excommunication whether all excommunication doth utterly root up Covenant interest what can merit so great a penalty but known and proved scandal and lastly whether all or any ignorance at ripenesse of age or unaptnesse in youth to learn the Catechisme be tollerably to be accounted according to Scripture or the judgement or practise of any one Church of Christ a scandal or such a scandal as may be censur'd and punisht with utter extirpation out of the Church CHAP. XX. Objections from Scripture considered BEfore I passe to the humane authority I hold my self bound to answer such objections against my Scripture-arguments as are offered thence Though I humbly professe I can hardly find or think of any that have either weight or colour in them but what have had sufficient though occasional answer already or at least been anticipated However that this head may have some body and that I may not write nihil hic nisi carmina c. Object 1. It is objected from John 8. 37. that those that were Abrahams seed were yet the devils children Answ What then therefore some Church-members are really the children of the devil but this we deny not onely we still assert that notwithstanding they may be really members of the visible Church as well as really Abrahams seed in regard of their holy profession and state they were really Church-members and children of Abraham yea of God but in regard of their unregenerate nature and rebellious lives they were as our Saviour affirmes the children of the Devil Were there any need we might fully explicate the answer hereunto by distinguishing of the Jews First as they are acknowledged to be Abrahams seed And secondly as they are called the Devils children First these Jews may be thought to be Abrahams seed either carnally ecclesiastically or spiritually i. e. savingly as his natural off-spring as Jews or as borne of him the head of the Covenant as holy branches of that old root or members of the Church Or lastly in that strict and saving sense as the children of Isaac or the seed of the promise elect to salvation 1. Now to apply if our Saviour here mean that these Jews were Abrahams seed onely in this first sense viz. borne of his naturaly body but by their heresie denying Christ and their schisme negative keeping themselves off from the Gospel-dispensation and positive raising themselves as a Church in distinction and opposition to the Gospel Church now planting in the world of all which they were highly guilty deservedly divorced and cut off from the Church then I say this text reacheth not our case for though such desperate murderers of the Lord of life and open rebels against the doctrine and meanes of salvation are no real Church-members it followeth not that therefore we cannot consider others that joyn themselves to the Gospel and professe to expect salvation from Jesus Christ c. to be so neither 2. If our Saviour meant that they were the visible Church and people of God and Abrahams seed in that ecclesiastical or covenant-Covenant-sense This I take to be the common sense of Expositors for though they call these Jews carnales Abrahae posteras yet they oppose carnales here to spirituales i. e. veros in their known and common sense Vid. Expos in locum then it either resteth to be proved that our Saviour intended here to declare them onely nominally or equivocally so because he chargeth them as children of the Devil for which there is no colour in the world seeing both as before may be really predicated of the same subject viz. that they are really members of Christs visible Kingdome and yet really children of the Devil as those children of the Kingdome were who went accursed from the mouth of Christ in another place Or secondly it

is yeelded that these Jews were not onely nominally but really members of the visible Church and then my desire is granted viz. that persons void of saving grace as these Jewes were may be considered to be real members of the visible Church 3. Indeed if we take Abrahams seed here in the last sense viz. spiritually or savingly such then the opposition is most evident for thus they could not be Abrahams seed and the children of the devil also and our Saviour plainly staves off from the first by so sharp a charge of the second q. d. you think because you have Abraham to your father that you are the heirs of salvation and heaven but alas ye are the devils children and must look for your place and portion with him Secondly we may distinguish also of these Jewes as they are here affirmed to be the children of the Devil The children of the devil are so in nature or habitually or in conversation or service or so in state condition profession and visible shew nor though such as are in nature and service the children of God and in grace and works the children of Abraham cannot be in state profession or outward shew the children of the Devil yet on the contrary it is too evident in sad experience and plaine in the Scripture that such as are the children of God and our father Abraham in profession and condition may yet be the children of the world the flesh and the devil in heart and life and service as these Jews were who though they were so notoriously eminent in the service of the devil against Christ and his Gospel are yet acknowledged by our Saviour here to have Abraham to their father and by Paul Rom. 9 4. to be the adopted children of God Object 2. He is no Jew that is onely so outwardly Rom. 2. 28. therefore he is no real Church-member that is onely so in profession Answ 'T is confest that he is no Jew in the Apostles sense that is onely a Jew outwardly and that this by analogy will conclude from Jews to Christians but the great question yet resteth viz. in what sense the Apostle meaneth that the Jew outwardly is no Jew 1. He cannot mean that he was no Jew carnally this is confessed while the Apostle termes him a Jew outwardly 2. He cannot mean that he is no Jew ecclesiastically or with respect to visible Church-membership for that also he allows in the very next words ch 3. 1 2 c. what advantage then hath Quum enim cos circumcisionis symbolo insignitos suisse tra dit quo filii De● haber●ntur non eas fatetur suo aliquo meri to excelluisse sed Dei beneficiis Bul. in loc Rom. 9. 4. the Jew as if he had said if he be in some sense no Jew what then is his advantage above the Gentile he answers himself much every way and wherein but in Church-priviledges and how but as this outward Jew is a Church-member 3. Then thirdly there is no sense left for these words of the Apostle but that spiritual saving sense before mentioned so that here is a Jew and no Jew a carnal Jew and an outward Jew a member of the visible Church to whom belongeth the adoption and the glory of the Covenants c. and yet no Jew spiritually and savingly as the very place interprets it self if any thing heeded where the Jew outwardly is onely asserted to be no Jew in that he is not a Jew inwardly and what 's that but such a Jew as God expects accepts or gives praise unto whose praise is not of men but of God the conclusion is that some are outwardly Christians or members onely of the visible Church who are not spiritually or savingly so or that shall finde no praise or acceptance with God which was never denied Object 3. Some in the Church have onely a name to live when indeed they are dead Rev. 3. 1. therefore there are some that are onely nominal and not real members of the Church Answ I have before confessed that there are some persons mingled with the Church and people of God that are of his Church onely nominally and not really that have the name alone and not the thing whether we respect the visible Church or the invisible such as pretend contrary to their direct intentions as the Jew at New-castle to joyne with the Church upon any corrupt or treacherous designe may have the name but that is all of a visible member thereof Again all hypocrites that cover their rottennesse under specious professions of the truth of their grace from the eyes of the world have the name and shew of the members of the Church invisible or of the Church of the saved when they have nothing at all of the truth or being thereof 2. But 't is most evident that our Saviours words now urged reach onely the latter sort of these pretenders and lay us a ground onely to distinguish of nominal and real members of the Church of the saved so far is it from troubling the course of our question at all for if we mark the Text saith not that this Church hath a name to be a Church but to live to have spiritual and saving life in her in opposition whereunto she is alone said to be dead Againe this life doth not seeme so much as to pretend the life of outward grace or that which is the principle of the state and condition of the visible Church but onely the life of habitual and inward grace or that which is the principle of good works and a holy conversation as is very evident from the very Text I know thy works thy works are not perfect before God v. 1 2. 3. Yea to put all out of doubt the same mouth that thus chargeth her to be dead doth also acknowledge her to be a Church and her Ministry to be an Angel to the Angel of the Church in Sardis v. 1. and concludeth this Epistle v. 7. as he doth the rest Let him that hath an eare heare what the Spirit saith unto the Churches it is also called a golden candlestick as well as the rest yea and by name said to be one of the seven Churches ch 1. 11. and 20. Object 4. To the wicked God saith what hast thou to do to declare my Statute or that thou shouldest take my Covenant in thy mouth c. Psalme 50. 16. therefore wicked men are not in Covenant and consequently not in the Church Answ This passage may be thought to be spoken of wicked Ministers 1. From the context in the verses preceding which chiefly treat of the work of Ministers viz. sacrifices and offerings and burnt-offerings as the special matter of the present discourse from v. 8. to v. 14. 2. From the Text it self which supposeth the persons here reproved to be such as used to declare Gods statutes to others I should not lay much weight upon this interpretation but that it seemeth to have been