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undoubted_a truth_n and_o upon_o this_o his_o own_o idle_a fancy_n build_v many_o goodly_a argument_n like_v so_o many_o castle_n in_o the_o air_n for_o out_o of_o this_o he_o think_v it_o to_o follow_v that_o we_o vary_v in_o our_o doctrine_n that_o because_o forsooth_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n now_o the_o fide_fw-la which_o be_v not_o before_o and_o whereof_o doctor_n do_v dispute_v which_o see_v we_o may_v not_o now_o doubt_v of_o therefore_o the_o faith_n be_v in_o his_o judgement_n alter_v but_o this_o show_v nothing_o but_o the_o poorness_n of_o his_o judgement_n for_o by_o this_o he_o may_v prove_v that_o the_o sun_n as_o it_o rise_v high_a and_o high_o and_o by_o spread_v his_o beam_n give_v light_n in_o some_o place_n att_o noon_n where_o it_o do_v not_o in_o the_o morning_n that_o therefore_o it_o be_v change_v in_o itself_o than_o which_o what_o can_v be_v more_o absurd_a 7._o and_o that_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o sun_n 6.9_o cant._n 6.9_o 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shine_v before_o so_o may_v the_o church_n spread_v the_o light_n of_o her_o faith_n show_v such_o or_o such_o a_o point_n to_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n which_o before_o be_v not_o so_o know_v to_o be_v or_o which_o though_o it_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n in_o itself_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o to_o us._n 8._o for_o more_o declaration_n whereof_o i_o may_v yet_o bring_v another_o more_o scholarly_o example_n which_o be_v of_o the_o principle_n of_o several_a science_n which_o be_v to_o be_v the_o premise_n in_o demonstrative_a argument_n of_o those_o science_n in_o which_o principle_n or_o premise_n be_v contain_v diverse_a truth_n which_o may_v be_v draw_v out_o of_o they_o by_o many_o several_a conclusion_n one_o follow_v of_o another_o these_o conclusion_n be_v truth_n in_o themselves_o before_o though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o appear_v unto_o i_o till_o i_o see_v the_o connexion_n they_o have_v with_o the_o premise_n and_o how_o they_o be_v contain_v in_o they_o and_o by_o the_o 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to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n 6._o greg._n moral_a lib._n 9_o cap_n 6._o as_o show_v s._n greg._n his_o discourse_n upon_o those_o word_n of_o job._n qui_fw-la facit_fw-la arcturum_fw-la &_o oriana_n &_o hyadas_n etc._n etc._n where_o he_o say_v thus_o vrgente_n mundi_fw-la sine_fw-la superna_fw-la scientia_fw-la proficit_fw-la &_o largius_fw-la cum_fw-la tempore_fw-la excrescit_fw-la as_o the_o world_n draw_v to_o a_o end_n the_o heavenly_a knowledge_n profit_v and_o with_o time_n increase_v wherein_o also_o she_o resemble_v our_o b._n saviour_n her_o chief_a lord_n and_o heavenly_a spouse_n who_o though_o in_o grace_n and_o knowlegde_v he_o never_o receive_v the_o least_o increase_n from_o the_o first_o instant_n of_o his_o conception_n 2.52_o luc_n 2.52_o yet_o the_o scripture_n say_v after_o proficiebat_fw-la sapientia_fw-la &_o aetate_fw-la &_o gratia_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la &_o homines_fw-la to_o wit_n because_o he_o show_v it_o more_o in_o his_o word_n and_o action_n 9_o this_o be_v far_a confirm_v by_o the_o manner_n and_o practice_n which_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n and_o father_n ever_o observe_v in_o and_o out_o of_o counsel_n in_o prove_v or_o define_v point_n of_o faith_n to_o wit_n by_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n belief_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o search_n whereof_o the_o holy_a church_n join_v humane_a industry_n with_o god_n holy_a grace_n and_o assistance_n for_o when_o any_o question_n or_o doubt_v of_o faith_n arise_v particular_a doctor_n several_o dispute_v and_o write_v thereof_o then_o if_o far_o need_n require_v it_o the_o holy_a church_n gather_v together_o her_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n in_o a_o council_n to_o examine_v and_o discuss_v the_o matter_n more_o full_o as_o in_o that_o first_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n 15.6_o act._n 15.6_o whereof_o the_o scripture_n say_v conueneruntque_fw-la apostoli_fw-la &_o seniores_fw-la videre_fw-la de_fw-la verbo_fw-la 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this_o prove_a succession_n of_o pastor_n in_o his_o church_n 4._o chap._n 4._o without_o which_o no_o church_n can_v be_v visible_a it_o be_v clear_a it_o do_v not_o but_o because_o this_o be_v a_o general_a fault_n throughout_o his_o whole_a book_n i_o will_v not_o stand_v note_v it_o in_o every_o section_n apart_o but_o this_o general_a note_n may_v serve_v for_o all_o to_o begin_v here_o with_o the_o title_n of_o this_o section_n if_o by_o popery_n he_o understand_v as_o i_o suppose_v he_o do_v that_o faith_n which_o we_o catholic_n profess_v under_o the_o pope_n as_o our_o supreme_a pastor_n than_o it_o be_v foolish_o say_v of_o he_o that_o some_o have_v renounce_v the_o same_o in_o part_n for_o no_o man_n can_v renounce_v the_o catholic_a faith_n in_o part_n it_o be_v indivisible_a but_o he_o that_o cease_v to_o believe_v one_o point_n cease_v to_o believe_v any_o one_o as_o he_o shall_v that_o be_v by_o way_n of_o true_a divine_a faith_n 2._o now_o to_o prove_v what_o he_o 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humphrey_n you_o condemn_v the_o use_n of_o one_o kind_n the_o council_n will_v not_o have_v it_o condemn_v be_v this_o near_a the_o council_n will_v not_o have_v you_o sever_v yourself_o from_o the_o catholic_a church_n you_o do_v be_v not_o this_o also_o near_o but_o beside_o these_o two_o condition_n the_o council_n require_v a_o three_o to_o wit_n that_o they_o shall_v believe_v that_o there_o be_v no_o more_o receive_v under_o both_o kind_n then_o under_o one_o you_o teach_v the_o quite_o contrary_a how_o near_o then_o be_v you_o now_o over_o and_o above_o all_o this_o you_o know_v the_o council_n of_o basil_n be_v of_o little_a or_o no_o with_o catholic_n as_o be_v reprove_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a 4._o your_o second_o point_n be_v of_o the_o marriage_n of_o priest_n which_o i_o see_v not_o why_o you_o shall_v make_v so_o fundamental_a unless_o it_o be_v to_o gain_v the_o good_a will_n of_o the_o ministry_n with_o who_o i_o confess_v it_o be_v of_o great_a account_n you_o 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he_o bring_v these_o which_o you_o can_v not_o but_o see_v wherefore_o in_o this_o you_o come_v short_a of_o the_o very_a minister_n honesty_n how_o little_a then_o must_v you_o needs_o have_v last_o i_o answer_v this_o very_a authority_n be_v against_o you_o in_o the_o two_o thing_n in_o controversy_n between_o we_o to_o wit_n the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n both_o which_o it_o allow_v and_o be_v against_o we_o only_o in_o one_o not_o so_o proper_o in_o controversy_n to_o wit_n in_o that_o it_o say_v this_o change_n be_v wrought_v not_o by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o the_o benediction_n that_o go_v before_o which_o benediction_n it_o do_v not_o say_v whether_o it_o be_v a_o word_n or_o a_o deed_n and_o it_o be_v as_o like_a to_o be_v some_o word_n as_o otherwise_o but_o whether_o word_n or_o deed_n it_o be_v as_o easy_a to_o consecrate_v by_o these_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n as_o by_o any_o other_o word_n or_o outward_a deed_n so_o as_o 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etc._n etc._n which_o be_v a_o corruption_n of_o you_o thereby_o insinuate_a as_o if_o bellarmine_n teach_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v plain_a and_o with_o out_o difficulty_n so_o as_o every_o body_n may_v understand_v they_o which_o indeed_o be_v a_o ordinary_a say_n of_o you_o protestant_n but_o as_o ordinary_o deny_v by_o we_o catholic_n the_o other_o be_v that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v man_n most_o learned_a and_o acute_a as_o scotus_n be_v you_o say_v the_o most_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n such_o as_o scotus_n which_o word_n the_o you_o can_v but_o know_v alter_v the_o sense_n much_o for_o it_o import_v as_o if_o the_o better_a part_n of_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n go_v that_o way_n which_o be_v false_a and_o contrary_a to_o the_o cardinal_n word_n and_o meaning_n 23._o you_o tell_v we_o now_o in_o the_o next_o place_n that_o you_o will_v proceed_v from_o scripture_n to_o father_n as_o if_o you_o have_v say_v mighty_a matter_n out_o of_o scripture_n not_o have_v indeed_o say_v one_o word_n out_o of_o it_o either_o for_o yourself_o or_o against_o us._n well_o let_v we_o see_v what_o you_o say_v out_o of_o the_o father_n alfonsus_n a_o castro_n say_v you_o be_v a_o diligent_a reader_n of_o the_o father_n yet_o after_o great_a study_n and_o search_n return_v this_o answer_n of_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v seldom_o mention_v in_o the_o father_n but_o sir_n you_o be_v no_o diligent_a reader_n nor_o faithful_a interpreter_n of_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n for_o his_o word_n as_o you_o yourself_o put_v they_o down_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n be_v thus_o indulgent_a alphon_n a_o castro_n lib._n 8._o verbo_fw-la indulgent_a de_fw-fr transubstantiatione_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la rara_fw-la est_fw-la in_o antiquis_fw-la scriptoribus_fw-la mentio_fw-la that_o be_v of_o the_o transubstantiation_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v sedome_n mention_v in_o ancient_a writer_n wherein_o he_o say_v true_a and_o you_o most_o false_a for_o though_o of_o transubstantiation_n there_o be_v rare_a mention_n yet_o of_o the_o conversion_n of_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v most_o frequent_a mention_n as_o bellarmine_n show_v at_o large_a and_o herein_o it_o be_v that_o you_o show_v yourself_o a_o faithless_a interpreter_n 20._o de_fw-fr euchar._n l._n 3._o cap._n 20._o but_o if_o a_o man_n consider_v castro_n his_o meaning_n he_o shall_v find_v you_o to_o have_v abuse_v that_o much_o more_o than_o his_o word_n for_o his_o drift_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o show_v that_o though_o there_o be_v not_o much_o mention_n in_o ancient_a write_v of_o a_o thing_n or_o plain_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n that_o yet_o the_o use_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n be_v sufficient_a bring_v for_o a_o example_n this_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n whereof_o he_o say_v there_o be_v seldom_o mention_n and_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n from_o the_o son_n whereof_o say_v he_o there_o be_v more_o seldom_o mention_n and_o then_o make_v his_o inference_n upon_o it_o thus_o yet_o who_o but_o a_o haeretique_n will_v deny_v these_o thing_n you_o may_v then_o as_o well_o sir_n humphrey_n and_o better_o too_o in_o castro_n his_o judgement_n have_v deny_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o proceed_v from_o the_o son_n than_o the_o bread_n to_o be_v transubstantiate_v into_o christ_n body_n and_o herein_o it_o be_v that_o you_o show_v yourself_o no_o diligent_a nor_o understand_v reader_n of_o castro_n 24._o after_o he_o come_v one_o yribarne_v a_o disciple_n of_o scotus_n who_o word_n you_o also_o corrupt_a in_o the_o translation_n which_o it_o be_v enough_o to_o tell_v you_o of_o for_o the_o matter_n he_o say_v it_o be_v of_o the_o substance_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n that_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n yet_o be_v it_o not_o so_o of_o transubstantiation_n wherein_o he_o seem_v to_o hold_v with_o his_o master_n scotus_n who_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n till_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n for_o which_o you_o yourself_o confess_v he_o be_v censure_v by_o bellarmine_n and_o suarez_n which_o be_v answer_n enough_o for_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o in_o the_o beginning_n we_o do_v not_o bind_v ourselves_o to_o defend_v every_o singular_a opinion_n of_o one_o or_o two_o doctor_n contrary_a to_o the_o common_a opinion_n of_o other_o but_o beside_o i_o answer_v that_o scotus_n plain_o aver_v transubstantiation_n and_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n who_o use_v the_o very_a word_n of_o conversion_n which_o be_v all_o one_o with_o transubstantiation_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v in_o a_o certain_a place_n respondeo_fw-la quod_fw-la nec_fw-la panis_fw-la manet_fw-la contra_fw-la primam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la nec_fw-la annihilatur_fw-la vel_fw-la resoluitur_fw-la in_o materiam_fw-la primam_fw-la 9.3_o sâ—â—t_fw-la 4._o do_v 1â—_n 9.3_o contra_fw-la secundam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la sed_fw-la convertitur_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la et_fw-la ad_fw-la hoc_fw-la multum_fw-la express_v videtur_fw-la loqui_fw-la ambrose_n cvius_fw-la undecim_fw-la authoritates_fw-la supra_fw-la adductae_fw-la sunt_fw-la &_o plures_fw-la habentur_fw-la de_fw-fr consecrat_fw-mi do_v 2._o i_o answer_v that_o neither_o the_o bread_n remain_v against_o the_o first_o opinion_n nor_o be_v annihilate_v or_o resolve_v in_o to_o materia_fw-la prima_fw-la against_o the_o second_o opinion_n but_o be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o this_o purpose_n s._n ambrose_n seem_v to_o speak_v very_o express_o out_o of_o who_o 11._o authoritye_n be_v bring_v before_o and_o more_o be_v to_o be_v have_v the_o consecr_n do_v 2._o 1._o s._n amb._n de_fw-fr iis_fw-la qui_fw-la mist_n initiant_fw-la cap._n 9_o &_o the_o sacrament_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 3._o &_o 4._o lib._n 6._o cap._n 1
church_n be_v to_o be_v speak_v aloud_o for_o say_v bell._n there_o be_v many_o as_o may_v be_v gather_v out_o the_o very_a constitution_n itself_o who_o to_o hide_v their_o own_o ignorance_n do_v contrary_a to_o the_o receive_a custom_n pronounce_v those_o thing_n soft_o which_o shall_v have_v be_v pronounce_v aloud_o and_o this_o to_o be_v so_o may_v appear_v plain_o by_o the_o law_n itself_o which_o you_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o have_v read_v for_o you_o cite_v it_o only_o out_o of_o your_o cassander_n who_o serve_v you_o to_o great_a steed_n for_o most_o of_o your_o citation_n 7._o you_o have_v in_o the_o next_o place_n a_o text_n out_o of_o the_o canon_n law_n the_o former_a be_v out_o of_o the_o civil_a to_o show_v your_o learning_n in_o all_o science_n ord._n cap._n quonian_a in_o plaerisque_fw-la de_fw-fr off_z iud_fw-la ord._n you_o cite_v it_o thus_o we_o command_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o such_o city_n and_o diocese_n where_o nation_n be_v mingle_v together_o provide_v meet_a man_n to_o minister_v the_o holy_a service_n according_a to_o the_o diversity_n of_o manner_n and_o language_n the_o word_n be_v these_o in_o latin_a pontifices_fw-la huiusmodi_fw-la civitatem_fw-la sive_fw-la dioceseon_n provideant_fw-la viros_fw-la qui_fw-la secundum_fw-la diversitates_fw-la rituum_fw-la &_o linguarum_fw-la divina_fw-la illis_fw-la officia_fw-la celebrent_fw-la &_o ecclesiastica_fw-la sacramenta_fw-la ministrent_fw-la instruendo_fw-la eos_fw-la pariter_fw-la verbo_fw-la &_o exemplo_fw-la in_o english_a thus_o letâ—_n the_o bishop_n of_o such_o city_n ordiocess_n provide_v meet_a man_n who_o according_a to_o the_o diversity_n of_o rite_n and_o language_n may_v celebrate_v unto_o they_o the_o divine_a office_n and_o administer_v unto_o they_o the_o ecclesiastical_a sacrament_n instruct_v they_o both_o by_o word_n and_o example_n whereby_o you_o see_v sir_n humphrey_n you_o may_v have_v cite_v the_o place_n more_o true_o though_o that_o be_v not_o so_o much_o the_o matter_n i_o cite_v it_o full_o for_o but_o for_o another_o purpose_n as_o you_o shall_v see_v when_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o bellarmine_n answer_n to_o this_o objection_n which_o be_v this_o that_o this_o decree_n speak_v only_o of_o the_o 2._o language_n greeke_n and_o latin_a for_o it_o be_v make_v by_o inno._n 3._o in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n because_o constantinople_n have_v be_v take_v not_o long_o before_o by_o the_o latin_n and_o then_o there_o be_v a_o latin_a emperor_n and_o patriarch_n and_o many_o latin_n by_o that_o occasion_n be_v mingle_v with_o the_o grecians_n in_o the_o same_o city_n they_o make_v a_o proposition_n in_o the_o council_n that_o they_o may_v have_v 2._o bishop_n one_o latin_a another_o greek_a to_o this_o the_o pope_n and_o council_n make_v answer_n that_o it_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o have_v 2._o bishop_n of_o one_o city_n but_o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o city_n shall_v substitute_v another_o in_o his_o room_n to_o celebrate_v the_o divine_a office_n and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n according_a to_o their_o own_o rite_n and_o language_n and_o this_o bellarm._n prove_v to_o be_v the_o true_a meaning_n of_o this_o decree_n not_o only_o out_o of_o the_o story_n but_o also_o by_o the_o effect_n for_o if_o this_o decree_n have_v concern_v the_o latin_a church_n any_o way_n it_o shall_v have_v be_v put_v in_o practice_n in_o some_o place_n thereof_o and_o most_o of_o all_o in_o italy_n in_o the_o pope_n sight_n but_o there_o be_v no_o sign_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n but_o plain_a proof_n to_o the_o contrary_n which_o answer_n be_v clear_a and_o solid_a but_o beside_o this_o answer_n of_o bellarmine_n a_o man_n may_v answer_n also_o that_o the_o council_n speak_v of_o two_o thing_n here_o to_o wit_n of_o celebrate_v the_o divine_a office_n and_o administer_a sacrament_n and_o then_o put_v two_o thing_n more_o answer_v unto_o those_o two_o to_o wit_n rite_n and_o language_n rite_n answer_v to_o divine_a office_n and_o language_n to_o sacrament_n as_o if_o it_o have_v say_v let_v such_o bishop_n provide_v man_n who_o may_v celebrate_v the_o divine_a office_n according_a to_o the_o diversity_n of_o their_o rite_n and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n according_a to_o the_o diversity_n of_o their_o language_n for_o indeed_o it_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o necessity_n in_o administration_n of_o some_o sacrament_n to_o use_v the_o vulgar_a language_n as_o in_o marriage_n &_o penance_n but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o of_o other_o thing_n for_o this_o reason_n than_o i_o cite_v the_o place_n as_o it_o be_v and_o though_o you_o may_v cavil_n at_o this_o answer_n yet_o i_o see_v not_o though_o there_o be_v no_o other_o why_o it_o may_v not_o serve_v for_o as_o good_a a_o objection_n as_o you_o 8._o but_o now_o you_o say_v you_o will_v not_o stand_v prove_v this_o point_n any_o more_o by_o cite_v the_o particular_a father_n but_o you_o will_v bring_v our_o own_o man_n confess_v that_o prayer_n and_o service_n 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of_o that_o 14._o chap._n of_o the_o 1._o to_o the_o corinthian_n where_o greeke_n be_v the_o vulgar_a and_o indeed_o that_o it_o be_v the_o vulgarne_n or_o commonesse_n of_o the_o tongue_n that_o the_o apostle_n regard_v most_o in_o their_o writing_n of_o scripture_n and_o the_o like_a it_o be_v plain_a by_o that_o that_o s._n paul_n of_o his_o 14._o epistle_n which_o he_o write_v to_o so_o many_o several_a nation_n and_o person_n he_o write_v only_o one_o in_o hebrew_n to_o wit_n that_o to_o the_o hebrew_n the_o other_o thirteen_o in_o greek_a even_o that_o to_o the_o roman_n though_o greek_a be_v not_o their_o vulgar_a or_o natural_a language_n and_o so_o do_v all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n save_v only_o s._n matthew_n who_o write_v his_o gospel_n in_o hebrew_n and_o as_o some_o say_v s._n mark_v who_o write_v his_o in_a latin_a though_o many_o doubt_n of_o that_o and_o say_v rather_o that_o he_o write_v it_o in_o greek_a whereof_o what_o other_o reason_n can_v there_o be_v but_o the_o uniformity_n which_o the_o apostle_n will_v have_v to_o be_v observe_v in_o the_o church_n by_o use_v for_o scripture_n and_o divine_a office_n those_o language_n which_o be_v more_o universal_a and_o common_a to_o most_o nation_n thereby_o to_o draw_v all_o to_o unity_n which_o though_o it_o can_v not_o be_v so_o absolute_a as_o to_o come_v to_o the_o use_n of_o one_o only_a language_n yet_o they_o restrain_v it_o to_o those_o few_o most_o universal_a language_n hebrew_n greek_a 15._o s._n hillar_n ap_fw-mi bell._n lib._n 2._o de_fw-fr verb._n dâ—i_n c._n 15._o and_o latin_a which_o be_v dedicate_v upon_o the_o cross_n our_o saviour_n title_n be_v write_v in_o those_o three_o language_n by_o mystery_n as_o holy_a father_n note_n to_o signify_v that_o by_o they_o christ_n his_o name_n and_o faith_n be_v to_o be_v most_o publish_v and_o preach_v over_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o for_o proof_n hereof_o we_o say_v it_o have_v not_o be_v ever_o hear_v of_o that_o any_o part_n of_o scripture_n be_v original_o write_v in_o other_o language_n or_o that_o there_o be_v any_o liturgy_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o near_o their_o time_n or_o any_o translation_n of_o scripture_n in_o other_o language_n much_o less_o be_v it_o ever_o hear_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v read_v in_o the_o meeting_n of_o christian_n or_o celebration_n of_o the_o divine_a mystery_n in_o other_o language_n then_o that_o wherein_o they_o be_v ordinary_o have_v and_o read_v to_o wit_n in_o some_o one_o of_o those_o language_n of_o late_a time_n we_o confess_v there_o have_v be_v use_n of_o other_o language_n as_o arabic_a chaldaic_a and_o the_o like_a but_o yet_o so_o as_o that_o the_o church_n have_v ever_o make_v choice_n of_o some_o one_o language_n which_o have_v be_v very_o common_a to_o many_o kingdom_n and_o nation_n not_o proper_a to_o any_o particular_a
way_n will_v you_o think_v they_o make_v you_o a_o material_a god_n philo_n authority_n than_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n 7._o for_o the_o jew_n now_o adays_o who_o sir_n edwin_n sands_n say_v be_v avert_v from_o the_o christian_a faith_n by_o have_v the_o crucifix_n show_v unto_o they_o i_o answer_v it_o be_v no_o wonder_n they_o that_o can_v endure_v christ_n how_o shall_v they_o endure_v his_o cross_n s._n paul_n preach_v christ_n crucify_v though_o he_o be_v a_o scandal_n or_o stumble_a block_n to_o their_o ancestor_n and_o must_v we_o leave_v to_o preach_v he_o though_o their_o child_n stumble_v at_o the_o same_o block_n noe_o sir_n humphrey_n we_o must_v not_o cease_v to_o preach_v christ_n nor_o can_v we_o preach_v he_o without_o his_o cross_n they_o go_v both_o together_o no_o man_n can_v love_v he_o and_o hate_v his_o cross_n nor_o hate_v his_o cross_n and_o love_v he_o wherefore_o you_o in_o allege_v their_o hate_n of_o the_o cross_n as_o a_o argument_n why_o you_o shall_v also_o hate_v the_o same_o you_o tacit_o confess_v you_o love_n christ_n as_o well_o as_o they_o do_v 8._o but_o now_o for_o your_o conclusion_n which_o you_o infer_v hereupon_o that_o it_o be_v agree_v upon_o on_o all_o side_n that_o the_o jew_n in_o the_o old_a law_n for_o 4000_o year_n never_o allow_v adoration_n of_o image_n and_o this_o say_v you_o be_v concern_v the_o image_n of_o god_n the_o father_n i_o see_v not_o what_o premise_n you_o infer_v it_o upon_o nor_o who_o agree_v with_o you_o in_o it_o you_o name_v four_o author_n one_o catholic_a one_o jew_n one_o magician_n one_o protestant_a the_o protestant_n to_o wit_n sir_n edwin_n sands_n speak_v not_o of_o any_o picture_n of_o god_n the_o father_n as_o you_o say_v you_o mean_v but_o of_o the_o crucifix_n or_o image_n of_o christ_n upon_o the_o cross_n the_o magician_n to_o wit_n cornelius_n agrippa_n say_v the_o jew_n do_v abhor_v image_n but_o he_o be_v no_o man_n to_o build_v upon_o be_v it_o true_a or_o false_a which_o he_o say_v all_o be_v one_o come_v out_o of_o such_o a_o fellow_n mouth_n the_o jew_n to_o wit_n philo_n say_v that_o the_o invisible_a god_n be_v not_o paint_v which_o we_o grant_v as_o i_o say_v before_o according_a to_o his_o own_o nature_n the_o catholic_a indeed_o to_o wit_n vazq_n say_v that_o image_n in_o state_n of_o adoration_n be_v altogether_o forbid_v but_o yet_o grant_v the_o adoration_n of_o other_o thing_n of_o the_o same_o kind_n as_o the_o ark_n and_o temple_n neither_o do_v his_o opinion_n avail_v you_o for_o even_o according_a to_o it_o you_o must_v confess_v that_o the_o example_n of_o the_o jew_n in_o that_o be_v no_o precedent_n for_o our_o time_n but_o beside_o other_o say_v adoration_n of_o image_n be_v somewhat_o allow_v even_o then_o and_o they_o prove_v their_o say_n by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o cherubin_n in_o the_o temple_n which_o be_v adore_v how_o then_o be_v it_o agree_v upon_o on_o both_o side_n but_o much_o more_o i_o may_v ask_v how_o 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the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n which_o speak_v not_o of_o god_n the_o father_n his_o picture_n but_o only_o of_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n picture_n against_o which_o they_o make_v nothing_o 8._o but_o bethink_v yourself_o a_o little_a after_o you_o say_v you_o will_v descend_v to_o see_v what_o order_n be_v take_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o representation_n of_o he_o and_o his_o saint_n and_o all_o the_o order_n that_o you_o find_v take_v or_o that_o you_o yourself_o take_v be_v to_o say_v that_o this_o law_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v moral_a which_o though_o vazq_n and_o other_o divine_n contradict_v yet_o you_o say_v bellarmine_n be_v of_o that_o opinion_n well_o be_v it_o so_o let_v it_o be_v moral_a as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o what_o be_v you_o the_o better_a do_v christ_n or_o his_o apostle_n say_v so_o or_o be_v this_o the_o order_n that_o they_o have_v take_v if_o it_o be_v not_o you_o be_v never_o the_o 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lib._n 1._o cap_n 5._o euseb_n eua._n procop._n adr._n 1._o damasc_n const_n porphyragenitus_n â—onar_fw-mi nicep_v pho._n niceph._n call_n one_o be_v that_o which_o he_o send_v to_o abgarus_n king_n of_o edessa_n who_o have_v desire_v to_o see_v he_o which_o request_n of_o he_o our_o saviour_n do_v in_o some_o sort_n satisfy_v by_o send_v he_o his_o picture_n another_o be_v that_o of_o veronica_n which_o he_o make_v with_o wipe_v his_o face_n as_o he_o be_v carry_v his_o cross_n and_o give_v to_o that_o devout_a woman_n that_o take_v so_o much_o pity_n of_o he_o as_o to_o give_v he_o a_o handkerchief_n at_o that_o time_n to_o wipe_v his_o face_n all_o bedew_v with_o blood_n and_o sweat_n a_o three_o be_v one_o which_o nicodemus_n give_v to_o gamaliel_n all_o which_o be_v testify_v not_o only_o by_o grave_n and_o learned_a author_n but_o i_o may_v say_v even_o by_o god_n himself_o though_o not_o inscripture_n yet_o by_o great_a and_o wonderful_a miracle_n whereof_o there_o can_v be_v 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wind_n indulgence_n §._o 8._o 1._o we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o last_o §_o of_o this_o chapter_n which_o be_v indulgence_n which_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v after_o your_o wont_a manner_n with_o the_o ten_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n teach_v that_o christ_n have_v leave_v that_o power_n of_o grant_v indulgence_n in_o his_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n have_v use_v the_o same_o from_o most_o ancient_a time_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v retain_v in_o the_o church_n condemn_v also_o whosoever_o shall_v term_v they_o unprofitable_a or_o deny_v authority_n in_o the_o church_n to_o grant_v they_o which_o doctrine_n you_o allow_v not_o of_o as_o not_o be_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n institution_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n you_o confess_v indeed_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v a_o power_n in_o the_o bishop_n to_o remit_v or_o 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pope_n and_o this_o not_o only_o for_o some_o few_o year_n in_o this_o life_n but_o for_o many_o thousand_o in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n 2._o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o though_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v to_o be_v a_o very_a good_a and_o substantial_a one_o yet_o be_v it_o nothing_o so_o for_o first_o it_o neither_o prove_v any_o thing_n nor_o overthrow_v our_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n though_o that_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n of_o these_o time_n and_o those_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o use_n of_o those_o time_n be_v not_o our_o only_a ground_n for_o this_o point_n of_o doctrine_n but_o we_o have_v other_o both_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n &_o undoubted_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o above_o a_o thousand_o year_n at_o least_o and_o this_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n in_o relaxation_n of_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o penitential_a canon_n 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grant_v it_o to_o have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v we_o be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o though_o allege_v as_o a_o difference_n yet_o do_v i_o not_o see_v wherein_o the_o difference_n be_v for_o they_o be_v a_o absolution_n because_o it_o be_v a_o unloose_n or_o untie_n for_o whereas_o by_o the_o canon_n for_o certain_a great_a crime_n man_n be_v bind_v or_o tie_v to_o undergo_v such_o penance_n for_o example_n to_o fast_o with_o bread_n and_o water_n so_o many_o day_n in_o a_o week_n for_o so_o many_o month_n or_o year_n not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n and_o the_o like_a by_o this_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n which_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v untie_v or_o loose_v from_o so_o much_o or_o so_o little_a as_o by_o that_o pardon_n they_o be_v free_v from_o and_o so_o be_v it_o in_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o in_o the_o absolution_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o lose_v or_o untie_n it_o can_v not_o be_v also_o in_o the_o guilt_n which_o must_v needs_o be_v remit_v in_o your_o indulgence_n as_o well_o as_o in_o we_o for_o a_o man_n be_v not_o free_a so_o long_o as_o he_o be_v guilty_a if_o then_o they_o be_v free_v by_o that_o pardon_n the_o guilt_n be_v take_v away_o thereby_o it_o be_v not_o likewise_o in_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n which_o be_v alike_o remit_v in_o the_o one_o and_o other_o for_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n or_o penance_n which_o man_n be_v free_v from_o in_o those_o time_n by_o indulgence_n and_o so_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n which_o we_o be_v now_o adays_o free_v from_o by_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o you_o mean_v sir_n humphrey_n when_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v a_o difference_n in_o this_o say_v that_o indulgence_n which_o be_v first_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v 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liberal_o than_o he_o do_v heretofore_o by_o other_o the_o power_n be_v in_o many_o before_o now_o it_o be_v in_o one_o that_o one_o than_o have_v more_o power_n than_o he_o have_v before_o but_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o power_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n can_v consist_v in_o this_o but_o think_v not_o sir_n that_o i_o grant_v you_o the_o pope_n power_n to_o be_v more_o now_o then_o at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v nor_o less_o than_o they_o now_o it_o be_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o this_o power_n as_o of_o all_o other_o his_o power_n of_o bind_v &_o lose_v whereof_o this_o be_v one_o branch_n which_o do_v ever_o extend_v over_o the_o whole_a church_n over_o all_o pastor_n and_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o
most_o strong_a argument_n of_o antiquity_n that_o it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n time_n out_o of_o mind_n and_o of_o consent_n that_o no_o man_n be_v find_v to_o have_v speak_v against_o it_o but_o only_o know_v haeretique_n such_o as_o the_o waldense_n who_o be_v the_o first_o impugner_n of_o indulgence_n 1_o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr indulg_n cap._n 1_o therefore_o you_o be_v still_o out_o of_o your_o bias_n when_o you_o think_v to_o prove_v the_o novelty_n of_o our_o doctrine_n by_o our_o want_n of_o testimony_n of_o antiquity_n for_o though_o we_o have_v such_o testimony_n for_o superaboundant_a proof_n yet_o it_o be_v enough_o that_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v thaught_v and_o practise_v in_o catholic_a church_n without_o any_o memory_n when_o it_o begin_v for_o that_o be_v s._n augustine_n rule_n continual_o to_o prove_v a_o thing_n not_o only_o ancient_a but_o even_o apostolical_a 10._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o your_o author_n in_o particular_a you_o bring_v durand_n in_o the_o first_o place_n say_v that_o there_o can_v be_v little_o say_v of_o certainty_n concern_v indulgence_n 2._o ap_fw-mi bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr indulg_n cap._n 2._o whereto_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v true_a durand_n do_v not_o speak_v so_o constant_o and_o resolute_o of_o the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o consist_v of_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o saint_n whereon_o indulgence_n be_v partly_o ground_v but_o he_o be_v far_o from_o any_o haeretical_a and_o pertinacious_a denial_n thereof_o much_o less_o of_o indulgence_n for_o suppose_v they_o as_o a_o thing_n most_o certain_a he_o dispute_v theological_a question_n of_o they_o as_o other_o divine_n of_o his_o time_n do_v and_o make_v this_o the_o first_o question_n 3._o dur._n in_o 4._o do_v 20._o q._n 3._o a_o aliquid_fw-la valeant_fw-la indulgentiae_fw-la whether_o indulgence_n avail_v any_o thing_n after_o the_o manner_n of_o school_n he_o put_v two_o argument_n against_o they_o in_o the_o first_o place_n and_o then_o come_v with_o his_o argument_n sed_fw-la contra_fw-la agree_v for_o the_o most_o part_n with_o his_o conclusion_n and_o agree_v express_o in_o this_o place_n he_o say_v thus_o in_o contrarium_fw-la est_fw-la generalis_fw-la consuetudo_fw-la &_o doctrina_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la quae_fw-la contineret_fw-la falsitatem_fw-la nisi_fw-la per_fw-la indulgentias_fw-la dimitteretur_fw-la aliquid_fw-la de_fw-la poena_fw-la peccatori_fw-la debita_fw-la on_o the_o contrary_n be_v the_o general_a custom_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n which_o will_v contain_v falsehood_n if_o some_o thing_n of_o the_o punishment_n dew_n to_o a_o sinner_n shall_v not_o be_v forgive_v by_o indulgence_n and_o then_o have_v set_v down_o his_o resolution_n that_o there_o can_v be_v much_o say_v of_o certain_a because_o neither_o the_o scripture_n make_v mention_n of_o they_o nor_o some_o holy_a father_n who_o he_o there_o name_v yet_o he_o conclude_v that_o in_o speak_v of_o indulgence_n the_o common_a manner_n be_v to_o be_v follow_v and_o so_o go_v on_o with_o other_o question_n per_fw-la quem_fw-la modum_fw-la valeant_fw-la ex_fw-la qua_fw-la causa_fw-la vaeleant_fw-la quis_fw-la eas_fw-la possit_fw-la concedere_fw-la in_o what_o manner_n they_o avail_v out_o of_o what_o cause_n who_o can_v grant_v they_o etc._n etc._n nay_o and_o for_o the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n though_o by_o way_n of_o theological_a dispute_n in_o one_o place_n he_o make_v some_o doubt_n of_o it_o yet_o in_o other_o he_o speak_v plain_o and_o clear_o in_o these_o word_n 3._o dur._n 4._o do_v 20._o q._n 3._o est_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la etc._n etc._n there_o be_v in_o the_o church_n a_o spiritual_a treasure_n of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o saint_n who_o endure_v much_o great_a torment_n than_o their_o sin_n deserve_v and_o therefore_o the_o church_n may_v out_o of_o this_o treasure_n communicate_v to_o one_o or_o more_o what_o may_v be_v sufficient_a to_o satisfy_v for_o their_o sin_n either_o in_o part_n or_o in_o whole_a according_a as_o shall_v please_v the_o church_n to_o communicate_v this_o treasure_n more_o or_o less_o which_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o the_o communication_n of_o the_o pain_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o saint_n to_o we_o to_o satisfy_v for_o our_o sin_n wherefore_o indulgence_n avail_v by_o way_n of_o solution_n or_o payment_n in_o as_o much_o as_o by_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n the_o pain_n dew_n to_o we_o be_v pay_v so_o far_o this_o author_n most_o clear_o true_o &_o catholique_o though_o after_o again_o he_o somewhat_o doubt_v of_o this_o treasure_n as_o i_o say_v before_o in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o consist_v of_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o saint_n now_o for_o the_o very_a place_n which_o you_o allege_v you_o commit_v a_o fault_n in_o make_v it_o seem_v as_o if_o he_o say_v the_o ancient_a father_n in_o general_n do_v not_o make_v any_o mention_n of_o indulgence_n and_o that_o he_o do_v name_n s._n ambrose_n s._n hilar._n s._n aug._n and_o s._n hierome_n only_o for_o example_n sake_n whereas_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o present_o after_o he_o name_v s._n greg._n and_o say_v of_o he_o that_o he_o do_v institute_v indulgence_n at_o the_o station_n in_o rome_n so_o as_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o speak_v only_o of_o those_o 4._o not_o of_o all_o the_o father_n in_o general_n and_o so_o much_o for_o durand_n 11._o as_o for_o alphonsus_n à _fw-fr castro_n another_o of_o your_o author_n he_o deni_v not_o all_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n as_o none_o of_o the_o rest_n do_v but_o only_o plain_a &_o express_v testimony_n and_o though_o he_o also_o confess_v the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n not_o to_o have_v be_v so_o much_o in_o those_o ancient_a time_n as_o since_o yet_o he_o allow_v of_o they_o so_o far_o as_o to_o condemn_v any_o man_n for_o a_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v deny_v they_o these_o be_v his_o word_n indulgent_a alph._n a_o castr_n de_fw-fr haeres_fw-la lib._n 8._o verb._n indulgent_a verum_fw-la etsi_fw-la pro_fw-la indulgentiarum_fw-la approbatione_fw-la s._n scripturae_fw-la testimonium_fw-la apertum_fw-la desit_fw-la non_fw-la tamen_fw-la ideo_fw-la contemnendae_fw-la erant_fw-la quoniam_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la catholicae_fw-la usus_fw-la a_o multis_fw-la annorum_fw-la centurijs_fw-la tantae_fw-la est_fw-la authoritatis_fw-la ut_fw-la qui_fw-la illum_fw-la contemnat_fw-la haereticus_fw-la merito_fw-la censeatur_fw-la but_o though_o there_o want_v open_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n for_o approbation_n of_o indulgence_n they_o be_v not_o therefore_o to_o be_v contemn_v because_o the_o use_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n be_v of_o so_o great_a authority_n that_o whosoever_o contemn_v the_o same_o be_v worthy_o esteem_v a_o haeretique_n and_o again_o in_o the_o same_o place_n apud_fw-la romanos_fw-la vetustissimus_fw-la praedicatur_fw-la illarum_fw-la to_o wit_n indulgentiarum_fw-la usus_fw-la ut_fw-la ex_fw-la stationibus_fw-la romae_fw-la frequentissimis_fw-la utrumque_fw-la colligi_fw-la potest_fw-la among_o the_o roman_n this_o use_n of_o indulgence_n be_v say_v to_o be_v most_o ancient_a as_o may_v be_v somewhat_o gather_v by_o the_o most_o frequent_a station_n at_o rome_n look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n what_o a_o witness_n you_o have_v bring_v for_o yourself_o do_v you_o not_o see_v how_o new_a he_o make_v this_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n confess_v even_o the_o use_n of_o they_o to_o be_v most_o ancient_a and_o of_o many_o hundred_o year_n stand_v nay_o do_v he_o not_o in_o the_o same_o place_n acknowledge_v that_o s._n gregory_n the_o great_a and_o first_o pope_n of_o that_o name_n do_v grant_v some_o indulgence_n which_o be_v above_o a_o thousand_o year_n do_v you_o not_o hear_v how_o much_o he_o give_v to_o the_o church_n acknowledge_v the_o practice_n thereof_o to_o be_v of_o so_o great_a authority_n that_o whosoever_o deny_v the_o truth_n of_o a_o thing_n so_o practise_v be_v worthy_o to_o be_v count_v a_o haeretique_n what_o think_v you_o now_o of_o yourself_o to_o be_v call_v haeretique_n out_o of_o your_o own_o mouth_n as_o it_o be_v that_o be_v out_o of_o your_o author_n mouth_n who_o you_o bring_v for_o you_o for_o castro_n his_o authority_n then_o though_o it_o have_v be_v more_o for_o you_o then_o it_o be_v in_o this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n yet_o you_o have_v be_v better_o have_v let_v it_o alone_o then_o to_o have_v it_o with_o such_o a_o condition_n the_o like_o a_o man_n may_v say_v of_o every_o author_n you_o bring_v here_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n but_o that_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o stand_v so_o long_o upon_o examine_v every_o one_o in_o particular_a 12._o now_o after_o such_o good_a authoritye_n as_o you_o bring_v against_o indulgence_n you_o think_v you_o may_v with_o authority_n prate_v very_o free_o of_o the_o pope_n sell_v of_o indulgence_n and_o bring_v money_n to_o his_o own_o coffer_n by_o they_o but_o to_o that_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v such_o
you_o see_v his_o meaning_n to_o be_v absolute_o to_o condemn_v idol-worship_n and_o approve_v image-worship_n neither_o do_v your_o note_n of_o the_o greek_a word_n in_o the_o margin_n in_o proof_n that_o s._n peter_n speak_v of_o idol-worship_n avail_v you_o for_o val._n speak_v only_o of_o the_o latin_a word_n which_o be_v more_o indifferent_a and_o in_o some_o author_n signify_v the_o same_o that_o imago_fw-la and_o even_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d though_o it_o be_v now_o by_o the_o use_n of_o father_n counsel_n and_o doctor_n determine_v to_o signify_v a_o empty_a or_o vain_a image_n of_o a_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n idolum_fw-la nihil_fw-la est_fw-la in_o mundo_fw-la a_o idol_n be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n 7.4_o cor._n 7.4_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n respect_v the_o primitive_a signification_n or_o etymology_n it_o may_v perhaps_o be_v take_v more_o indifferent_o for_o it_o come_v from_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o signify_v species_n or_o forma_fw-la the_o seem_a shape_n or_o beauty_n of_o a_o thing_n or_o person_n but_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o signification_n of_o word_n we_o must_v follow_v the_o ecclesiastical_a rule_n neither_o do_v i_o allow_v valencia_n his_o use_n of_o the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la and_o explication_n of_o s._n peter_n text_n or_o even_o his_o argument_n draw_v from_o thence_o though_o the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n which_o he_o defend_v be_v true_a to_o wit_n image-worship_n but_o this_o be_v to_o show_v you_o how_o he_o may_v use_v the_o word_n harmeles_o especial_o declare_v himself_o plain_o by_o other_o word_n though_o for_o you_o to_o stand_v trifle_v &_o contend_v about_o word_n when_o you_o see_v his_o meaning_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o your_o want_n of_o matter_n but_o here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o can_v but_o note_v how_o to_o urge_v the_o matter_n more_o against_o valentia_n you_o run_v yourself_o upon_o the_o rock_n for_o you_o observe_v that_o the_o word_n use_v by_o saint_n peter_n in_o that_o place_n signify_v idol-worship_n not_o image-worship_n wherein_o you_o seem_v plain_o to_o confess_v that_o image-worship_n and_o idol-worship_n and_o consequent_o a_o image_n and_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o whereby_o as_o you_o think_v to_o advantage_v you_o self_n in_o this_o place_n against_o the_o jesuit_n so_o you_o do_v not_o mark_v that_o herein_o you_o contradict_v your_o self_n and_o the_o whole_a currant_n of_o your_o own_o doctor_n who_o chief_a argument_n against_o image_n be_v certain_a place_n of_o scripture_n against_o idol_n which_o you_o also_o bring_v before_o for_o if_o a_o image_n &_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o then_o be_v all_o your_o argument_n nothing_o worth_a or_o if_o they_o be_v then_o be_v valentia_n argument_n good_a choose_v which_o you_o will_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o cast_v up_o your_o count_n aright_o you_o will_v find_v you_o have_v lose_v more_o than_o you_o have_v gain_v by_o this_o citation_n of_o valencia_n 15._o a_o five_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n you_o deliver_v in_o these_o word_n concern_v the_o two_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n it_o be_v most_o evident_a say_v bellarmine_n but_o concern_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a and_o out_o of_o canus_n you_o say_v the_o divine_n speak_v so_o uncertaine_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o they_o do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o give_v grace_n or_o no_o thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o place_n of_o bellarm._n you_o be_v convince_v before_o of_o manifest_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellarm._n say_v it_o be_v certain_a fine_a cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o in_o fine_a but_o not_o so_o manifest_v you_o leave_v out_o not_o manifest_a and_o change_v certain_a into_o not_o certain_a beside_o what_o be_v that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v be_v not_o manifest_v but_o certain_a that_o these_o two_o be_v sacrament_n the_o rest_n not_o noe_o such_o matter_n sir_n knight_n it_o be_v their_o signification_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o &_o yet_o not_o their_o signification_n of_o grace_n which_o they_o cause_n but_o their_o signify_v of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o beginning_n and_o aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o grace_n give_v by_o the_o sacrament_n this_o signification_n he_o say_v be_v certain_a but_o not_o so_o evident_a in_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n for_o canus_n you_o corrupt_v he_o as_o foul_o also_o for_o first_o you_o join_v two_o several_a place_n together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v but_o one_o in_o canus_n himself_o &_o then_o make_v he_o say_v that_o the_o divine_n do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o that_o be_v matrimony_n give_v grace_n or_o no_o which_o be_v most_o flat_o false_a for_o as_o i_o show_v before_o he_o grant_v it_o with_o all_o divine_n to_o be_v proper_o a_o sacrament_n his_o two_o place_n several_o be_v thus_o the_o divine_n speak_v so_o diverse_o of_o the_o matter_n &_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o it_o be_v folly_n for_o a_o man_n to_o resolve_v any_o thing_n certain_a this_o be_v one_o whereof_o i_o speak_v more_o before_o &_o show_v that_o his_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a whither_o it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n or_o not_o or_o whither_o it_o have_v a_o matter_n and_o form_n 4._o cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o for_o that_o i_o show_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o by_o most_o express_a word_n of_o his_o own_o but_o that_o no_o man_n can_v say_v determinate_o which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n which_o as_o bellarmine_n say_v well_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a for_o we_o to_o know_v but_o that_o without_o it_o we_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o acknowledge_v a_o true_a sacrament_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o know_v what_o be_v requisite_a for_o celebrate_v a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o what_o those_o thing_n be_v without_o which_o it_o be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n though_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o of_o those_o thing_n be_v the_o matter_n &_o which_o the_o form_n for_o example_n if_o a_o priest_n in_o baptism_n use_v true_a water_n and_o the_o right_a word_n he_o do_v administer_v a_o true_a sacrament_n though_o he_o shall_v not_o know_v which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n nay_o though_o he_o shall_v think_v the_o word_n to_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o water_v the_o form_n though_o the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v truth_n the_o other_o place_n of_o canus_n be_v that_o he_o say_v that_o matrimony_n contract_v without_o a_o priest_n be_v no_o sacrament_n because_o in_o his_o opinion_n the_o word_n which_o the_o priest_n speak_v be_v the_o form_n and_o of_o that_o kind_n of_o matrimony_n he_o consequent_o deni_v it_o to_o give_v grace_n but_o of_o matrimony_n absolute_o and_o as_o it_o be_v use_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n he_o never_o make_v doubt_n see_v before_o his_o word_n 16._o the_o last_o matter_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v of_o our_o tradition_n which_o you_o say_v you_o be_v uncertain_a whereas_o the_o scripture_n be_v write_v to_o give_v we_o certainty_n for_o this_o say_n you_o allege_v no_o catholic_n true_o nor_o false_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v count_v of_o be_v so_o manifest_o false_a for_o whence_o have_v we_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o very_a scripture_n themselves_o but_o by_o tradition_n and_o much_o more_o of_o the_o sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n beside_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v and_o show_v this_o your_o prime_a principle_n be_v not_o only_o false_a but_o contrary_a to_o express_v scripture_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o father_n which_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v in_o whole_a treatise_n write_v hereof_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o your_o section_n of_o certainty_n we_o find_v nothing_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n uncertain_a in_o the_o catholic_a church_n nothing_o certain_a on_o your_o side_n but_o only_o that_o you_o be_v always_o and_o every_o where_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v of_o the_o 11._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 11._o chap._n 11._o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o great_a safety_n comfort_n and_o benefit_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o the_o protestant_a faith_n then_o in_o the_o romish_a chapter_n xi_o 1._o from_z certainty_n you_o come_v to_o safety_n whereof_o you_o need_v not_o have_v make_v so_o distinct_a mention_n and_o proof_n it_o follow_v necessary_o and_o manifest_o that_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v most_o certain_a in_o itself_o be_v also_o most_o safe_a for_o man_n to_o follow_v as_o also_o it_o can_v be_v safe_a without_o certainty_n wherefore_o as_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o certain_a in_o your_o former_a
that_o it_o be_v the_o image_n of_o a_o man_n he_o know_v not_o who_o which_o if_o it_o have_v be_v christ_n or_o any_o saint_n he_o will_v have_v know_v who_o it_o be_v neither_o will_v he_o have_v call_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n or_o any_o saint_n the_o image_n of_o a_o man_n and_o then_o he_o make_v a_o comparison_n or_o likeness_n between_o the_o hang_n of_o that_o picture_n and_o the_o picture_n of_o christ_n or_o some_o saint_n which_o show_v plain_o both_o that_o it_o be_v not_o christ_n nor_o any_o saint_n and_o also_o that_o it_o be_v the_o custom_n to_o hang_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n in_o the_o church_n it_o be_v also_o a_o idle_a senseless_a expression_n of_o you_o when_o you_o say_v a_o veil_n represent_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n for_o the_o veil_n be_v not_o the_o picture_n of_o a_o picture_n and_o therefore_o do_v not_o represent_v the_o image_n but_o represent_v the_o man_n you_o leave_v alsoe_o out_o those_o word_n nescio_fw-la cvius_fw-la erat_fw-la i_o know_v not_o who_o it_o be_v by_o all_o which_o be_v discover_v both_o your_o corruption_n and_o the_o probability_n of_o this_o answer_n suppose_v these_o word_n be_v epiphanius_n his_o whereas_o indeed_o they_o be_v not_o and_o this_o be_v the_o three_o answer_n which_o you_o only_o take_v notice_n of_o but_o without_o take_v notice_n or_o answer_v any_o of_o the_o reason_n allege_v by_o any_o man_n for_o the_o same_o whereas_o bellarmine_n allege_v no_o less_o than_o 9_o all_o very_a good_a and_o substantial_a one_o and_o some_o of_o they_o moral_a demonstration_n as_o that_o those_o word_n be_v a_o piece_n add_v at_o the_o end_n of_o the_o epistle_n put_v to_o no_o man_n know_v how_o nor_o with_o what_o connexion_n another_o be_v that_o s._n hierome_n have_v translate_v that_o epistle_n whereto_o these_o word_n be_v add_v make_v no_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o they_o or_o any_o such_o veil_n a_o three_o be_v that_o in_o the_o 7._o general_a council_n where_o the_o iconoclast_n or_o image-breaker_n allege_v all_o that_o ever_o they_o can_v out_o of_o any_o author_n they_o never_o mention_v any_o such_o authority_n as_o this_o of_o epiphanius_n which_o show_v that_o either_o the_o word_n be_v not_o there_o or_o at_o lest_o that_o they_o have_v not_o any_o shadow_n of_o probability_n against_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n and_o epiphanius_n the_o deacon_n in_o that_o council_n prove_v two_o such_o place_n to_o have_v be_v corrupt_v by_o haeretique_n and_o insert_v in_o the_o work_n of_o s._n epiphanius_n more_o may_v be_v see_v in_o other_o author_n for_o this_o shall_v serve_v to_o discover_v your_o honest_a and_o upright_o deal_n with_o epiphanius_n sir_n humphrey_n and_o show_v what_o cause_n you_o have_v to_o complain_v of_o our_o elude_a or_o reject_v the_o father_n 8._o but_o yet_o i_o shall_v discover_v the_o same_o more_o go_v through_o with_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o father_n testimony_n the_o next_o of_o which_o be_v s._n cyprian_n touch_v tradition_n thus_o from_o whence_o be_v this_o tradition_n for_o the_o lord_n command_v we_o to_o do_v those_o thing_n which_o be_v write_v to_o which_o you_o say_v bellarmine_n make_v answer_n that_o s._n cyprian_n write_v thus_o when_o he_o think_v to_o defend_v his_o own_o error_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n if_o he_o err_v in_o so_o reason_v it_o be_v true_a sir_n humphrey_n bellarmine_n make_v this_o answer_n and_o it_o be_v a_o very_a good_a one_o and_o of_o itself_o do_v serve_v the_o turn_n for_o it_o be_v most_o true_a that_o s._n cyprian_n there_o write_v in_o defence_n of_o rebaptisation_n which_o he_o maintain_v and_o because_o he_o see_v it_o can_v not_o be_v impugn_a by_o the_o write_a word_n but_o only_o by_o unwritten_a tradition_n which_o s._n stephen_n pope_n then_o urge_v against_o he_o he_o reject_v that_o tradition_n and_o flee_v to_o scripture_n wherein_o the_o badness_n of_o his_o cause_n put_v he_o to_o that_o hard_a shift_n for_o proof_n whereof_o i_o will_v but_o only_o ask_v you_o whether_o you_o think_v s._n cyprian_n be_v then_o in_o a_o error_n or_o not_o i_o presume_v you_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o he_o be_v otherwise_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o we_o may_v baptize_v such_o as_o have_v be_v baptize_v in_o your_o church_n and_o be_v convert_v to_o we_o or_o that_o you_o must_v baptize_v such_o of_o we_o as_o fall_v to_o you_o because_o you_o may_v say_v you_o be_v no_o haeresy_n but_o rather_o we_o but_o whether_o soever_o you_o say_v of_o these_o two_o you_o i_o suppose_v will_v not_o nor_o indeed_o can_v grant_v rebaptisation_n for_o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o your_o belief_n &_o practice_n well_o then_o it_o be_v a_o error_n likewise_o this_o error_n be_v not_o otherwise_o maintain_v but_o by_o denial_n of_o unwritten_a tradition_n and_o can_v be_v overthrow_v but_o by_o hold_v they_o and_o therefore_o it_o must_v follow_v of_o necessity_n that_o it_o be_v a_o error_n to_o deny_v tradition_n or_o thus_o if_o this_o rebaptisation_n be_v a_o error_n and_o that_o it_o follow_v of_o that_o principle_n of_o hold_v to_o the_o write_a word_n only_o then_o be_v that_o principle_n false_a for_o it_o be_v a_o ordinary_a rule_n in_o logic_n that_o if_o a_o conclusion_n be_v false_a or_o impossible_a the_o premisse_a or_o principle_n from_o whence_o it_o follow_v must_v of_o necessity_n be_v false_a or_o impossible_a and_o this_o rule_n be_v ground_v upon_o a_o certain_a axiom_n that_o ex_fw-la vero_fw-la nihil_fw-la sequitur_fw-la nisi_fw-la verum_fw-la of_o truth_n there_o follow_v nothing_o but_o truth_n so_o rebaptisation_n be_v a_o error_n as_o you_o can_v deny_v that_o principle_n of_o the_o only_o write_v word_n from_o whence_o it_o follow_v and_o whereupon_o it_o depend_v must_v needs_o be_v false_a whereby_o you_o may_v see_v bellarmine_n argument_n to_o be_v good_a and_o your_o own_o to_o be_v of_o no_o force_n 11._o bell._n de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 11._o but_o beside_o bellarmine_n add_v some_o authority_n to_o his_o reason_n thereby_o give_v it_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o credit_n which_o be_v that_o s._n aug._n do_v answer_n and_o confute_v that_o whole_a epistle_n of_o s._n cyprian_n out_o of_o which_o these_o word_n be_v take_v so_o that_o you_o may_v have_v say_v that_o s._n augustine_n do_v elude_v and_o reject_v s._n cyprian_n authority_n as_o well_o as_o bellarmine_n but_o that_o for_o shame_v i_o you_o can_v not_o be_v so_o bold_a with_o s._n augustine_n as_o you_o may_v be_v with_o bellarmine_n though_o both_o say_v but_o the_o same_o thing_n 9_o the_o 8._o testimony_n be_v s._n chrysostom_n touch_v private_a mass_n in_o these_o word_n it_o be_v better_a not_o to_o be_v present_a at_o the_o sacrifice_n then_o to_o be_v present_a and_o not_o to_o communicate_v bellarm._n say_v you_o make_v this_o answer_n that_o chrysostome_n speak_v this_o as_o at_o other_o time_n by_o exceed_v the_o truth_n when_o he_o will_v only_o incite_v man_n frequent_o and_o worthy_o to_o communicate_v where_o first_o you_o wrong_v bellarmine_n in_o strain_v his_o word_n to_o the_o worst_a sense_n and_o as_o i_o may_v say_v true_o mistranslating_a they_o for_o whereas_o he_o say_v that_o s._n chrysostome_n speak_v this_o by_o excess_n per_fw-la excessum_fw-la be_v his_o word_n you_o say_v by_o exceed_v the_o truth_n which_o be_v false_a for_o it_o be_v not_o all_o one_o to_o say_v that_o a_o man_n speak_v by_o excess_n and_o by_o exceed_v the_o truth_n for_o there_o be_v a_o figure_n in_o rhetoric_n call_v hyperbole_n or_o excess_n which_o whosoever_o use_v be_v not_o say_v present_o to_o exceed_v the_o truth_n or_o speak_v untruel_o as_o you_o will_v make_v bellar._n say_v of_o s._n chrysost_o but_o only_o to_o speak_v by_o hyperbole_n or_o excess_n wherein_o the_o intent_n of_o the_o speaker_n be_v not_o to_o be_v take_v so_o precise_o to_o the_o utmost_a of_o his_o word_n but_o with_o a_o grain_n of_o salt_n as_o we_o say_v because_o by_o that_o manner_n of_o speech_n a_o man_n intend_v only_o to_o signify_v the_o greatness_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o which_o he_o speak_v whither_o it_o be_v commend_v or_o discommend_v and_o it_o be_v certain_a some_o man_n use_v this_o figure_n more_o than_o other_o and_o special_o those_o who_o be_v more_o eloquent_a and_o who_o be_v to_o frame_v their_o discourse_n to_o the_o move_n of_o a_o popular_a or_o vulgar_a auditory_a such_o as_o s._n chrysost_o be_v therefore_o for_o answer_n of_o the_o matter_n bell._n say_v well_o that_o this_o saint_n be_v great_o move_v with_o his_o people_n coldness_n in_o devotion_n and_o backwardness_n in_o come_v to_o the_o holy_a mystery_n speak_v by_o excess_n to_o make_v they_o more_o apprehend_v the_o illnes_n thereof_o as_o we_o
of_o restraint_n though_o if_o there_o have_v be_v we_o may_v very_o well_o have_v warrant_v it_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o s._n hierome_n who_o do_v no_o way_n admit_v such_o free_a use_n even_o of_o the_o latin_a bible_n for_o have_v speak_v large_o and_o learned_o out_o of_o scripture_n of_o the_o hardness_n and_o obscurity_n of_o scripture_n paulin_n ep._n ad_fw-la paulin_n he_o complain_v that_o every_o body_n do_v presume_v to_o take_v read_v and_o teach_v it_o before_o they_o learn_v it_o themselves_o disallow_v that_o even_o such_o as_o himself_o shall_v go_v from_o saecular_a learning_n present_o to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o interpret_v they_o at_o their_o pleasure_n s._n hierome_n then_o think_v they_o hard_o and_o be_v not_o so_o free_a in_o allow_v the_o read_n of_o scripture_n as_o you_o be_v for_o if_o he_o do_v not_o allow_v the_o read_n thereof_o in_o latin_a to_o man_n and_o scholar_n how_o much_o less_o will_v he_o have_v allow_v it_o in_o english_a to_o woman_n and_o child_n beside_o it_o be_v no_o such_o crime_n to_o forbid_v the_o read_n of_o scripture_n to_o some_o sort_n of_o people_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o this_o testimony_n of_o this_o holy_a father_n who_o in_o the_o same_o place_n also_o say_v moreover_o that_o the_o begin_n of_o genesis_n with_o the_o beginning_n and_o end_n of_o ezechiel_n be_v not_o to_o be_v read_v by_o the_o jew_n till_o they_o come_v to_o 30._o year_n of_o age_n which_o kind_n of_o forbid_v be_v no_o derogation_n but_o a_o great_a commendation_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o i_o call_v it_o but_o a_o kind_n of_o forbid_v for_o it_o be_v far_o different_a though_o you_o make_v it_o all_o one_o from_o the_o forbid_v of_o haereticall_a book_n for_o these_o be_v forbid_v as_o wicked_a detestable_a &_o of_o themselves_o dangerous_a the_o other_o out_o of_o reverence_n and_o honour_n dew_n unto_o they_o and_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o danger_n which_o may_v come_v by_o they_o not_o of_o themselves_o but_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o weakness_n of_o the_o reader_n for_o want_v of_o necessary_a learning_n &_o humility_n both_o which_o a_o man_n that_o be_v to_o handle_v the_o scripture_n must_v come_v well_o provide_v of_o 4._o for_o cornelius_n agrippa_n it_o make_v no_o more_o matter_n what_o he_o say_v than_o what_o you_o say_v for_o it_o be_v but_o ask_v my_o brother_n if_o i_o be_v a_o thief_n but_o it_o be_v fine_a that_o these_o fellow_n can_v be_v invite_v by_o a_o general_a council_n with_o promise_n of_o all_o security_n that_o can_v be_v desire_v to_o come_v and_o propound_v what_o they_o can_v say_v out_o of_o scripture_n or_o any_o way_n else_o and_o yet_o when_o they_o come_v before_o a_o judge_n they_o will_v dispute_v forsooth_o and_o by_o dispute_v avoid_v the_o rigour_n of_o the_o law_n indeed_o i_o can_v blame_v they_o but_o if_o this_o seem_v reason_n to_o you_o why_o do_v you_o deny_v catholic_a priest_n the_o like_a liberty_n of_o disputation_n how_o often_o and_o earnest_o have_v they_o desire_v it_o but_o can_v never_o obtain_v it_o but_o neither_o even_o in_o that_o case_n with_o we_o be_v people_n deny_v any_o convenient_a liberty_n neither_o be_v there_o any_o credit_n to_o be_v give_v to_o cornelius_n agrippa_n for_o be_v a_o magician_n he_o may_v very_o well_o be_v say_v to_o have_v shake_v hand_n with_o the_o devil_n the_o father_n of_o lie_n which_o you_o yourself_o it_o seem_v know_v and_o suspect_v that_o his_o testimony_n will_v not_o pass_v for_o currant_n you_o tell_v we_o we_o shall_v hear_v our_o own_o author_n how_o they_o speak_v of_o the_o scripture_n for_o you_o tremble_v to_o speak_v it_o as_o your_o word_n be_v you_o tell_v we_o some_o say_v they_o be_v dead_a character_n a_o shell_n without_o a_o kernel_n a_o leaden_a rule_n a_o wood_n of_o thief_n a_o shop_n of_o haeretique_n imperfect_a doubtful_a obscure_a full_a of_o perplexity_n with_o many_o more_o epithet_n which_o i_o let_v pass_v these_o be_v of_o the_o very_o worst_a and_o especial_o the_o last_o 4._o for_o which_o you_o allege_v lessius_fw-la allege_v likewise_o for_o every_o one_o of_o the_o rest_n a_o several_a author_n whereto_o not_o to_o stand_v answer_v every_o one_o several_o the_o matter_n be_v the_o same_o of_o one_o and_o all_o i_o say_v in_o general_a that_o these_o thing_n be_v speak_v not_o of_o the_o scripture_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o that_o be_v consist_v of_o both_o word_n and_o meaning_n as_o it_o be_v life_n and_o soul_n together_o but_o of_o the_o bare_a word_n and_o letter_n only_o which_o haeretique_n still_o do_v and_o even_o have_v abuse_v as_o the_o devil_n himself_o do_v to_o our_o saviour_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n it_o be_v a_o wood_n of_o thief_n for_o as_o thief_n run_v into_o a_o wood_n to_o escape_v thereby_o so_o do_v haeretique_n run_v in_o all_o controversy_n to_o the_o letter_n of_o the_o scripture_n leave_v the_o true_a sense_n and_o frame_v a_o false_a one_o according_a to_o their_o own_o fancy_n 17_o tert._n de_fw-fr praes_fw-la cap._n 17_o which_o be_v that_o that_o tertullian_n say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o good_a to_o be_v do_v with_o haeretique_n by_o scripture_n for_o that_o either_o they_o deny_v the_o book_n or_o pervert_v the_o sense_n and_o whatsoever_o we_o say_v they_o deny_v or_o what_o we_o deny_v they_o defend_v and_o so_o a_o wood_n of_o thief_n and_o shop_n of_o haeretique_n dead_a character_n and_o the_o like_a be_v all_o one_o the_o meaning_n of_o all_o be_v so_o as_o these_o speech_n be_v not_o mean_v of_o the_o scripture_n proper_o in_o itself_o as_o i_o say_v before_o but_o as_o it_o be_v you_o or_o as_o it_o be_v make_v by_o you_o and_o other_o haeretique_n and_o yet_o alas_o good_a man_n you_o tremble_v to_o hear_v the_o word_n that_o do_v but_o express_v your_o own_o deed_n alac_n for_o you_o that_o your_o stomach_n be_v so_o queasy_a that_o it_o can_v endure_v to_o hear_v that_o which_o you_o be_v bold_a and_o hardy_a enough_o to_o do_v by_o your_o daily_a practice_n 5._o but_o because_o you_o be_v so_o dainty_a that_o your_o stomach_n turn_v at_o what_o our_o modern_a author_n say_v of_o you_o let_v we_o see_v whether_o it_o will_v brook_v any_o better_a what_o that_o ancient_a &_o learned_a father_n s._n hierome_n say_v let_v we_o see_v whether_o your_o tender_a conscience_n will_v be_v so_o scandalize_v at_o his_o word_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o be_v now_o at_o we_o gal._n hierom._n 1._o gal._n martion_n &_o basilides_n say_v he_o &_o caeterae_fw-la haereticorum_fw-la pest_n non_fw-la habent_fw-la dei_fw-la euangelium_fw-la quia_fw-la non_fw-la habent_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la sine_fw-la quo_fw-la humanum_fw-la fit_a euangelium_fw-la quod_fw-la docetur_fw-la nec_fw-la putemus_fw-la in_o verbis_fw-la scripturarum_fw-la esse_fw-la euamgelium_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o sensu_fw-la non_fw-la in_o superficie_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o medulla_n none_o in_o sermonum_fw-la folijs_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o radice_fw-la rationis_fw-la dicitur_fw-la in_o propheta_fw-la de_fw-fr deo_fw-la 2._o michae_n 2._o sermon_n eius_fw-la boni_fw-la sunt_fw-la cum_fw-la eo_fw-la tunc_fw-la scriptura_fw-la utilis_fw-la est_fw-la audientibus_fw-la cum_fw-la absque_fw-la christo_fw-la non_fw-la dicitur_fw-la cum_fw-la absque_fw-la patre_fw-la non_fw-la profertur_fw-la cum_fw-la sine_fw-la spiritu_fw-la non_fw-la eam_fw-la insinuat_fw-la ille_fw-la qui_fw-la praedicat_fw-la alioquin_fw-la &_o diabolus_fw-la qui_fw-la loquor_fw-la de_fw-fr scripture_n &_o omnes_fw-la haereses_fw-la secundum_fw-la ezechiel_n inde_fw-la sibi_fw-la consuunt_fw-la ceruicalia_fw-la quae_fw-la ponant_fw-la sub_fw-la cubito_fw-la universae_fw-la aetatis_fw-la etc._n etc._n grande_n periculum_fw-la est_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la loqui_fw-la ne_fw-la fortè_fw-la interpretatione_n perversa_fw-la de_fw-la evangelio_fw-la christi_fw-la hominis_fw-la fiat_fw-la evangelium_fw-la aut_fw-la quod_fw-la peius_fw-la est_fw-la diaboli_fw-la martion_n basilides_n and_o other_o plague_n of_o haeretique_n have_v not_o the_o gospel_n of_o god_n because_o they_o have_v not_o the_o holy_a ghost_n without_o who_o it_o become_v the_o gospel_n of_o man_n which_o be_v teach_v nor_o let_v we_o think_v that_o the_o gospel_n be_v or_o consist_v in_o the_o word_n of_o scripture_n but_o in_o the_o sense_n not_o in_o the_o superficies_n or_o bark_n but_o in_o the_o pith_n not_o in_o the_o leaf_n of_o speech_n or_o word_n but_o in_o the_o root_n of_o reason_n it_o be_v say_v in_o the_o prophet_n of_o god_n his_o speech_n be_v good_a with_o he_o then_o the_o scripture_n be_v profitable_a to_o the_o hearer_n when_o it_o be_v not_o speak_v without_o christ_n when_o it_o be_v not_o bring_v without_o the_o father_n when_o he_o that_o preach_v do_v not_o insinuate_v it_o without_o the_o holy_a ghost_n otherwise_o both_o the_o devil_n who_o speak_v out_o of_o scripture_n and_o all_o heresy_n according_a to_o ezechiel_n make_v themselves_o pillow_n out_o of_o it_o to_o
put_v under_o the_o elbow_n of_o all_o age_n it_o be_v a_o great_a danger_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n lest_o perchance_o by_o perverse_a interpretation_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v make_v the_o gospel_n of_o man_n or_o which_o be_v worse_o the_o gospel_n of_o the_o devil_n thus_o far_o saint_n hieromes_n word_n which_o i_o think_v without_o more_o ado_n may_v easy_o answer_v your_o whole_a argument_n for_o in_o they_o this_o holy_a father_n say_v as_o much_o or_o more_o as_o all_o those_o epithet_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o our_o several_a author_n put_v together_o and_o withal_o show_v in_o what_o sense_n they_o be_v to_o be_v take_v so_o as_o if_o you_o will_v say_v any_o more_o of_o this_o matter_n you_o must_v undertake_v the_o quarrel_n against_o saint_n hierome_n you_o may_v do_v well_o also_o to_o note_v the_o very_a first_o word_n martion_n basilides_n &_o caeterae_fw-la haereticorum_fw-la pest_n among_o who_o you_o have_v your_o part_n 6._o now_o for_o the_o 4._o last_o epithet_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o lessius_fw-la though_o they_o seem_v not_o such_o strange_a term_n as_o some_o of_o the_o rest_n yet_o they_o be_v far_o worse_o and_o more_o derogatory_n from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n if_o they_o be_v there_o as_o you_o say_v i_o have_v therefore_o more_o particular_o examine_v he_o whither_o he_o say_v so_o or_o no_o 11._o lesle_n consul_n quae_fw-la sit_fw-la fides_fw-la etc._n etc._n rat_n 11._o and_o whereas_o the_o word_n be_v all_o put_v down_o by_o you_o here_o as_o it_o be_v several_a epithet_n a_o man_n will_v have_v think_v they_o have_v be_v all_o so_o together_o in_o the_o author_n himself_o i_o say_v first_o that_o there_o be_v neither_o any_o such_o word_n lie_v together_o nor_o any_o such_o a_o part_n nor_o any_o one_o word_n of_o those_o that_o i_o can_v find_v in_o that_o whole_a place_n or_o reason_n which_o i_o may_v call_v a_o chapter_n for_o it_o be_v in_o manner_n of_o a_o chapter_n much_o 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derogate_a from_o the_o dignity_n of_o holy_a scripture_n or_o any_o way_n condemn_v it_o of_o imperfection_n doubtfulness_n ambiguity_n and_o perplexity_n some_o of_o these_o thing_n may_v be_v true_o say_v and_o in_o a_o good_a sense_n as_o the_o doubtfulness_n or_o ambiguity_n in_o the_o same_o sense_n that_o i_o speak_v of_o the_o uncertainty_n not_o in_o itself_o but_o to_o us-ward_n but_o for_o the_o imperfection_n because_o that_o be_v a_o great_a matter_n with_o you_o i_o absolute_o deny_v it_o for_o neither_o do_v any_o catholic_a say_v either_o that_o or_o any_o thing_n else_o from_o whence_o it_o may_v be_v gather_v for_o it_o be_v not_o all_o one_o to_o say_v that_o it_o alone_o be_v no_o sufficient_a rule_n and_o to_o say_v it_o be_v imperfect_a for_o though_o you_o imagine_v that_o the_o all_o sufficiency_n or_o contain_v of_o all_o thing_n express_o be_v a_o necessary_a point_n of_o perfection_n you_o be_v deceive_v for_o than_o will_v it_o follow_v that_o the_o gospel_n of_o s._n matthew_n s._n mark_v and_o other_o particular_a book_n shall_v be_v imperfect_a and_o special_o that_o of_o s._n john_n wherein_o he_o say_v express_o that_o all_o thing_n be_v not_o write_v neither_o if_o all_o the_o scripture_n do_v contain_v all_o thing_n in_o that_o manner_n as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o and_o so_o be_v perfect_a in_o your_o sense_n yet_o will_v it_o not_o even_o then_o be_v a_o sufficient_a rule_n of_o faith_n of_o itself_o alone_o for_o it_o will_v still_o be_v a_o book_n or_o uriting_n the_o very_a nature_n whereof_o do_v not_o suffer_v it_o to_o be_v the_o sole_a rule_n of_o faith_n or_o judge_n of_o controversy_n for_o a_o jugde_v must_v be_v able_a to_o speak_v to_o hear_v answer_v etc._n etc._n whereas_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o book_n or_o writing_n be_v as_o it_o be_v to_o leave_v itself_o to_o be_v read_v and_o expound_v by_o man_n for_o in_o case_n two_o man_n shall_v expound_v it_o different_o the_o nature_n thereof_o do_v not_o require_v that_o it_o shall_v say_v whether_o of_o the_o two_o expound_v it_o right_n the_o perfection_n therefore_o of_o it_o do_v rather_o consist_v in_o the_o truth_n fullness_n of_o wisdom_n profoundness_n majesty_n gravity_n efficacy_n authority_n and_o certainty_n then_o in_o contain_v all_o thing_n express_o as_o you_o require_v &_o so_o long_o as_o it_o have_v those_o perfection_n contain_v withal_o the_o principal_a matter_n pertain_v to_o faith_n and_o teach_v we_o a_o certain_a and_o infallible_a way_n whereby_o we_o may_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o rest_n which_o be_v the_o church_n it_o can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v unperfect_a or_o to_o want_v any_o perfection_n dew_n thereunto_o and_o this_o may_v be_v answer_n sufficient_a to_o the_o rest_n of_o this_o section_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a more_o of_o such_o wise_a stuff_n for_o you_o tell_v we_o we_o decline_v scripture_n as_o unperfect_a the_o father_n as_o counterfect_v the_o protestant_n as_o haeretique_n our_o own_o author_n as_o erroneous_a of_o which_o there_o be_v not_o one_o true_a word_n but_o this_o that_o we_o decline_v protestant_n as_o haeretique_n for_o so_o we_o do_v indeed_o but_o for_o the_o rest_n it_o be_v most_o false_a for_o what_o catholic_n do_v ever_o decline_v the_o authority_n of_o our_o school_n divine_n or_o ancient_a father_n much_o less_o call_v the_o one_o erroneous_a or_o the_o other_o counterfect_a some_o one_o may_v have_v stray_v a_o little_a from_o the_o common_a opinion_n of_o the_o rest_n in_o some_o one_o particular_a point_n or_o perhaps_o have_v be_v corrupt_v by_o haeretique_n and_o so_o we_o may_v decline_v that_o particular_a author_n in_o that_o particular_a point_n but_o call_v he_o erroneous_a or_o counterfect_a we_o do_v not_o nay_o we_o give_v you_o leave_v
the_o doctrine_n of_o justification_n and_o doctrine_n of_o merit_n as_o they_o be_v deliver_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n every_o catholic_a be_v bind_v to_o give_v his_o life_n as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n whereas_o he_o ask_v whether_o any_o of_o these_o 33._o be_v canonize_v for_o it_o it_o be_v a_o idle_a question_n for_o man_n be_v canonize_v not_o for_o matter_n of_o belief_n only_o but_o for_o practice_v of_o faith_n hope_n charity_n and_o all_o virtue_n together_o which_o belong_v to_o a_o holy_a and_o christian_a life_n in_o general_a and_o to_o their_o own_o particular_a state_n and_o vocation_n and_o though_o there_o be_v no_o special_a mention_n of_o any_o of_o those_o 33._o their_o adoration_n of_o image_n yet_o define_v which_o before_o be_v not_o and_o which_o then_o man_n be_v not_o so_o certain_a of_o nor_o so_o bind_v to_o believe_v as_o after_o so_o consequent_o man_n may_v be_v less_o bind_v to_o suffer_v death_n for_o it_o then_o then_o afterward_o and_o yet_o be_v of_o the_o same_o faith_n with_o those_o that_o come_v after_o so_o long_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o church_n and_o live_v in_o the_o unity_n thereof_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o power_n and_o authority_n to_o determine_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v certain_a those_o ancient_a martyr_n do_v as_o appear_v both_o by_o their_o own_o writing_n yet_o extant_a and_o their_o deed_n record_v by_o other_o man_n in_o good_a authentical_a history_n these_o holy_a martyr_n therefore_o be_v true_o we_o which_o if_o this_o knight_n will_v disprove_v he_o must_v show_v which_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v otherwise_o that_o be_v against_o that_o uhich_v we_o now_o believe_v which_o till_o he_o can_v do_v we_o shall_v still_o be_v in_o possession_n of_o our_o martyr_n and_o of_o their_o faith_n our_o faith_n testify_v that_o we_o be_v their_o child_n and_o their_o blood_n give_v testimony_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o faith_n of_o the_o 17._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 17._o chap._n 17._o our_o adversary_n common_a objection_n draw_v from_o the_o charitable_a opinion_n of_o protestant_n touch_v the_o salvation_n of_o profess_a romanist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o their_o church_n answer_v chapter_n xvii_o 1._o this_o section_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o natural_a language_n and_o therefore_o will_v soon_o be_v answer_v he_o begin_v with_o a_o say_n of_o costerus_n that_o a_o man_n die_v a_o lutheran_n can_v be_v save_v whereupon_o he_o fall_v in_o to_o a_o great_a rage_n against_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v a_o woman_n a_o church_n a_o city_n which_o reign_v over_o the_o king_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o have_v multitude_n of_o nation_n at_o her_o command_n but_o he_o thank_v god_n his_o church_n be_v not_o such_o a_o one_o neither_o do_v protestans_fw-la as_o he_o say_v account_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o their_o church_n and_o from_o thence_o he_o fall_v to_o reckon_v up_o diverse_a particular_a point_n of_o his_o church_n doctrine_n as_o disclaim_v of_o merit_n communion_n in_o both_o kind_n read_v of_o scripture_n and_o bring_v a_o place_n of_o scripture_n for_o each_o of_o these_o he_o ask_v very_o rhetorical_o after_o every_o one_o whether_o they_o be_v accurse_v for_o hold_v they_o and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n ask_v whether_o we_o can_v be_v bless_v that_o forbid_v marriage_n &_o meat_n that_o have_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n adore_v image_n adore_v saint_n adore_v the_o element_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n we_o that_o add_v tradition_n to_o the_o scripture_n and_o detract_v from_o god_n commandment_n and_o christ_n institution_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o discourse_n of_o his_o be_v so_o foolish_a as_o it_o be_v a_o man_n may_v think_v it_o folly_n for_o i_o to_o stand_v answer_v particular_o therefore_o i_o answer_v brief_o and_o in_o general_a first_o that_o though_o it_o take_v up_o half_a his_o section_n yet_o it_o be_v whole_o from_o his_o purpose_n which_o he_o pretend_v by_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o objection_n second_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o he_o object_v unto_o we_o they_o be_v all_o answer_v before_o and_o prove_v some_o false_a for_o the_o thing_n wherewith_o he_o charge_v we_o all_o absurd_a if_o we_o consider_v the_o proof_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v for_o example_n he_o tell_v we_o we_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n both_o which_o be_v most_o gross_o false_a for_o how_o many_o catholic_n be_v there_o in_o england_n man_n and_o woman_n marry_v and_o what_o meat_n be_v there_o that_o catholic_n be_v forbid_v to_o eat_v in_o due_a time_n and_o season_n be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n to_o some_o man_n to_o wit_n such_o as_o have_v voluntary_o promise_v the_o contrary_a and_o some_o meat_n at_o some_o time_n all_o one_o i_o say_v as_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n neither_o marriage_n nor_o meat_n be_v forbid_v in_o these_o case_n as_o ill_o in_o themselves_o in_o which_o sense_n only_o saint_n paul_n term_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n but_o for_o high_a end_n but_o to_o make_v he_o yet_o a_o little_a more_o capable_a of_o this_o answer_n i_o will_v urge_v he_o with_o one_o ordinary_a instance_n which_o be_v this_o i_o presume_v his_o father_n have_v some_o apprentice_n bind_v not_o to_o marry_v during_o his_o apprenticeship_n i_o will_v then_o know_v of_o he_o whither_o his_o father_n in_o that_o case_n do_v forbid_v marriage_n and_o teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n 2._o against_o prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n he_o say_v it_o be_v write_v with_o man_n of_o other_o tongue_n and_o other_o lip_n will_v i_o speak_v unto_o this_o people_n and_o so_o they_o shall_v not_o hear_v i_o and_o in_o the_o margin_n say_v it_o be_v a_o curse_n at_o the_o build_n of_o babel_n for_o they_o that_o understand_v not_o what_o be_v speak_v but_o by_o this_o allege_v of_o scripture_n a_o man_n may_v see_v what_o a_o good_a thing_n it_o be_v to_o have_v it_o in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n for_o every_o man_n to_o read_v and_o abuse_v it_o at_o his_o pleasure_n when_o such_o a_o right_n learned_a man_n as_o this_o knight_n do_v so_o strange_o apply_v it_o he_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v esay_n the_o prophet_n speak_v against_o latin_a in_o this_o place_n but_o the_o man_n be_v quite_o wide_a of_o his_o mark_n but_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o he_o that_o there_o be_v mention_n of_o a_o strange_a tongue_n there_o for_o as_o for_o the_o sense_n he_o care_v not_o or_o rather_o his_o read_n reach_v not_o to_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o place_n which_o be_v but_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o people_n laugh_v at_o the_o prophet_n that_o come_v to_o they_o with_o command_n from_o god_n repeat_v their_o word_n scoff_o manda_fw-la remanda_fw-fr 28.11_o isa_n 28.11_o expecta_fw-la reexpecta_fw-la etc._n etc._n god_n send_v they_o word_n by_o the_o prophet_n that_o because_o they_o will_v not_o hear_v those_o word_n nor_o follow_v the_o good_a counsel_n which_o he_o give_v he_o will_v speak_v another_o word_n unto_o they_o that_o they_o shall_v fall_v &_o be_v catch_v crush_v and_o carry_v into_o captivity_n and_o there_o hear_v a_o language_n which_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v this_o be_v the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n of_o the_o prophet_n s._n paul_n indeed_o use_v it_o in_o another_o sense_n to_o persuade_v the_o corinthian_n that_o prophecy_n be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o tongue_n because_o as_o he_o say_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n be_v a_o sign_n for_o infidel_n that_o be_v to_o speak_v to_o infidel_n for_o their_o conversion_n but_o prophecy_n that_o be_v exhortation_n or_o interpretation_n be_v for_o the_o faithful_a or_o those_o that_o believe_v already_o wherein_o i_o will_v know_v according_a to_o either_o explication_n what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v against_o prayer_n in_o the_o latin_a tongue_n and_o for_o the_o tower_n of_o babel_n the_o knight_n sure_o speak_v by_o contrary_n for_o whereas_o at_o babel_n man_n fall_v from_o unity_n of_o language_n to_o speak_v every_o man_n a_o several_a language_n so_o as_o no_o one_o man_n understand_v one_o another_o &_o by_o that_o mean_v they_o be_v all_o disperse_v into_o several_a nation_n the_o catholic_a church_n do_v quite_o contrary_a draw_v several_a nation_n to_o unity_n of_o language_n make_v all_o to_o speak_v one_o and_o the_o sâ—me_a tongue_n whereas_o haeretique_n in_o several_a place_n by_o use_n of_o other_o language_n understand_v not_o one_o the_o other_o and_o therein_o most_o perfect_o resemble_v the_o babel-builder_n as_o well_o in_o the_o very_a diversity_n of_o tongue_n as_o in_o the_o diversity_n of_o