his iudgement in that matter ye should haue repaired and sent vs to y e place where at large of purpose he ētreateth thereof which he doth in the twentie or last chapter of the fourth booke of his Institution expressely handlyng there the heauenly authoritie of Magistrates and the duetie of good and obedient subiectes whiche Chapter is written wholly of Politique gouermnent Wherein M. Howlet prooue him if you can to haue written vngodly seditiously or vntruely No as hee writeth very godly and with great authoritie of scriptures and reason so doth he very reuerently and modestly also if any other writer old or new as they say doe so after another manner and sort then eyther you here doe to her Maiestie for all your flattering floures or then your sort haue of late or now doe of Princes and 〈◊〉 els where I woulde wishe the godly and christian reader to bee well acquainted with this M. Caluins writings and I doubt not to affirme to bee true here that was else where saide Let him thinke he hath greatly 〈◊〉 in matters of religion who is brought into a loue and liking of Caluins writings And yet I make neither him my God nor his writings my Byble for all this reuerent thinking and speaking of him and his writings Euen in this matter of Magistrates I praye thee gentle reader looke but into that last Chapter and thou shalt see it shal be hard for thee to read else where 〈◊〉 or profoūder iudgement of a diuine for the excellent dignitie of ciuill Princes and Magistrates or for subiectes and priuate mens obedience to thy satisfaction and contentmēt and to be able with all to confute whateuer M. Howlet or his side can cauill against this seruaunt of GOD or Christes religion here 〈◊〉 I will not nowe stande in diducting this matter but note thus much by the way and nowe come M. Howlet to answere your glenings and pyckings out of his writings In the 10. Chapter of the 4. booke of his Institution he treateth of the authoritie of the Churche in making lawes and of the Popes and popishe Prelates tyrannie ouer mens consciences in that behalfe and namely handling this question whether it be lawfull for the Church by her lawes to binde mens consciences he freely inueigheth against your popish Churches licentiousnes in that behalf without any whit preiudicing politique order onely reseruing mens soules and consciences free to bee spiritually guided by God Christ and his holy woorde in the matters appertayning to the soules health and saluation Nowe M. Howlet if this doctrine mislike you that mens soules and consciences should be aboue the cōpasse of mens authoritie and lawes then condemne our 〈◊〉 Christ the Prophetes and Apostles with M. Caluin who make one spirituall Judge King Lorde and Lawgiuer ouer mens soules that is able to saue and destroy willing vs so to giue to Ceasar those thinges that are Caesars that we giue to God the thinges that are Gods to feare him that hath authoritie to cast into hell and to destroy both soule and body there Whereas men what power soeuer they haue ouer the body afterwarde can doe nothing more nor are not able to kill the soule Againe Yee are bought with a price be not the seruantes of men Stande in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made vs free and be not intangled agayne with the yoke of bondage In the kingdome of God there is neyther Iewe nor Grecian circumcision nor vncircumcision bonde nor free male nor female but ye are all one in Christ he is all in all thinges And yet in place may this distinction bee made and must also be as I noted before Your faulte herein is that yee distinguishe not aright betweene the ciuill and outwarde Courte and the Spirituall Courte of conscience as they speake and Maister Caluin here noteth and else where also howe euer your Fafather and Church haue taken vpon them to deale with mens consctences which is Gods seat to sit and rule there wherein they shewe what they bee yet neither our 〈◊〉 nor other ciuill Princes vsurpe so much ouer Gods right that is proper to Antechrist and your faction Concerning the first Article your corruption and false collection therein are so shamelesse that they may be easily espied I wishe the reader to haue but recourse to the place ye quote to finde out your trecherie or false allegatiō in peruerting the authours woordes and sense to be able to answere the same Excellently well doth M. Caluin in that place defining and treating of conscience reconcile these two pointes togethcr First that mens consciences for their spirituall gouernment are aboue mens reaches reserued only to God which also in time of ignorance as y e said M. Caluin sayth was seene and obserued by your Popish writers though practise were to the contrary as may name ly be seene in your Saint Thomas Next that we must bee subiect to our ciuill Magistrates and that for conscience sake according to the doctrine of the Apostle not so much respecting the thinges commaunded or forbidden by them which of them selues touche not conscience as the generall ende and commandement of the eternall God that hath appointed this order and willed vs by his commandement to be subiect to autoritie And this is it the Apostle tendeth to in his epistle to the Romanes so as leauing your caueling in wordes and syllables if you coulde and woulde distinguishe betwene the ciuill Courte and the court of conscience and betweene generall and particular as M. Caluin speaketh All scrupule auoyded this matter might bee eased and better matter gathered from this godly wryter then you too 〈◊〉 pretende to bee there The booke being both in Englishe and in Latine let the reder iudge of the whole you M. Howlet and your fellowes shall neuer be able to stayne M. Caluin and his doctrine nor cleare your selues from malice c. while you liue if you deale plainely Set vs downe the booke Chapter Section and Caluins wordes for we haue no cause other wise to trust you as you doe your fellowes The second place or article that yee take out of Caluin is so plaine true as I maruell what yee meant to charge him therewith for speaking of Christian libertie hee saith That the consciences of the faithfull are exempted from the power of all men by reason of the libertie giuen thē by Christ so as they are not to be intangled in the snares of constitutions in those things wherein the Lord would haue them free But adde I pray you as hee doth there That as the matter is very worthie and meete to bee knowne so needeth it a large and plaine declaration by reason of the adoe that partly seditious persons partly quarell pickers make as though all obedience of men which is not meant were thereby also taken away and ouerthrowne To preuent this inconuenience doth maister Caluin there a
the holy Ghost his set vs downe by that chosen vessell the blessed Apostle who prayeth Christians to walke worthy their calling whereunto they are called with all humblenes of minde meeknes with long suffering supporting one another in loue endeuouring to keepe the vnitie of the Spirite in the bonde of peace There is one bodie and one spirit c. looke the place To discerne and distinguishe therefore thinges aright here needeth the Spirite of the Lorde the spirite of wisedome vnderstanding the spirite of counsaile and strength the spirite of knowledge and of the feare of the Lorde that may make vs prudent in the feare of the Lord c. whereof the Prophet sayth It shoulde rest vpon Christ who receyued the fame for the behoofe of his Churche and vs to be guided by Wee haue receiued sayth Saint Paule not the spirite of the worlde but the spirite which is of God that we may know the things which are giuē vs of God And the Anoynting which yee receiued of him dwelleth in you saith Saint Iohn and Yee neede not that any man teach you but as the same anoynting teacheth you of all things it is true and is not lying and as it taught you yee shall abide in him Agayne our Sauiour Christ It is written in the Prophetes And they shal be all taught of God A good and sure Schoolemaister is this Spirit of truth to lead vs into all trueth to bring into our remembrance whatsoeuer Christ hath tolde vs and to redresse and direct our wayes according to God his holy woorde which is the truth God only vouchsafe to 〈◊〉 our eares and to touche our heartes continually to heare beleeue and obey this truth Thus much in respect of some certaine for their better satisfiyng if it may be This matter beside the scriptures which may and ought to suffise hath 〈◊〉 and is diducted at large by some writers both olde and new as they are called where the same for them that list may be seen namely Augustine in his writings aforetime against the Donatists and such like wadeth herein very godly and wisely in my opinion and such godly men in our time also as write against Anabaptistes and y e like that are infected herein that I neede not to adde there vnto And besides I doe but here touch the same by the way as a caueat to preuent or cut of cauill and quarrelling if it may be hauing rather to occupie meselfe in answering the 〈◊〉 sarie at this time as one that what reason or answere soeuer other may be thought to haue and to make he surely his fellow Romanists haue very litle or none as who may be thought to haue beene in the orders of this Churche sufficiently if not too muche respected and borne with nowe aboue these twentie yeeres whiche may serue with all the worlde to our 〈◊〉 and the States 〈◊〉 here towardes these men And that a through and full reformation of the Church need not be forborne in respect of them I woulde this great and necessarie matter might as easily be obtayned which our sinnes onely let as it is not harde to answere what euer those fellowes can nowe alleadge for them selues Unto the examination therefore of this mans particular Reasons for refusall of comming to Church I nowe turne my selfe THE first Reason why I being a Catholike in minde may not goe to the Churches or seruice of the contrary Religion is because I perswading my selfe their doctrine to be false doctrine and consequently venemous vnto the hearer I may not venture my soule to bee infected with the same So that the firste proposition or grounde of this first reason to make it in forme of argument is this No man that perswadeth himselfe the doctrine nowe professed and taught in the Church of Englande is false and venemous to the hearer may venture his soule to be infected therewith But euery Romane Catholike is a man that perswadeth him selfe the doctrine nowe professed and taught in the Church of England is false doctrine and venemous to the hearer Therefore no Romane Catholike may venture his soule to be infected therewith First Sir such Catholikes as are of contrary opinion vnto you herein for whose sake you wrote this discourse must you suppose will denie one of your two propositions finde shifts to auoyde all your proofes which will not bee harde to bee done for those of your religion But let them shift with you as they and you can agree I am no patrone of theirs I will speake and answere to the matter Therefore to this first Argument or Reason I answere that it is vayne and naught because it is grounded vpon opinion fancie and ones perswading of him selfe and doing after his perswasion and not vpon the matter and truth Nowe these two matters be diuers and doe differ much I perswade my selfe that such a thing is thus or so And such a thing in deed is thus or so The reason why because one may be and to often is deceiued in perswading himself of things otherwise then they be But the truth is alwaies one and 〈◊〉 not according to our perswasion neither 〈◊〉 thereon What if one perswade himselfe y t he is a Prince or haue a bag of money is he so or hath he it euer the more or euer the sooner for that neuer a whit sure Or if one perswade himself there is a snake in his bed shall he not sleepe neere it or if your fellow perswade himself you go about to deceiue him shall hee not trust you Surely our doing or not doing of thinges euen appertayning to this lyfe to haue the same well done must not depende vpon our own perswasion which is very changeable and vncertayne but our perswasion to doe any thing must depende rather vpon the trueth and goodnesse of the matter that wee minde to doe Otherwise one perswading him selfe that euery man hee shall meete will kil him may not venture to goe abroad about his 〈◊〉 nor come in the companie of any man perswading himselfe that what euer hee eate or drinke poysoneth him hee may not venture to eate nor drinke for being 〈◊〉 And so within a while die like a foole and be guiltie of his owne death because hee will not lay away his owne 〈◊〉 perswasion In religion and matters of 〈◊〉 is this argument much more 〈◊〉 vaine as y t which hath 〈◊〉 and doeth from Gods truth and is the mother and nurse of all superstition and 〈◊〉 So as if this disputer or reasoner will needes grounde this argument or reason vpon his perswasion yet must he giue seaue to 〈◊〉 the grounde of his perswasion whether it bee good or bad true or false And not say as he doth elsewhére that he will not dispute thereof but howe euer that bee the perswasion may not be done against be it true be it false First rather let him prooue the goodnes truth therof
make mention of and suche as your Authour or you seeme to promise shall followe and to shewe that the proceedings of your Catholike part bee not so quiet modest as is in wordes to her Maiestie heere pretended neither they such important a stay in euery of her Maiesties Countries as is heere iollily bragged Though vppon occasion I haue beene rounde in this matter and it may seeme sharpe that I here vtter yet let the matter bee well wayed and I shall not bee founde I trust to haue exceeded the bounds of truth and charitie I protest that I meane not to excite or stirre vp my Soueraigne to any crueltie or the State or any of authoritie heere though on the other side I bee so farre of from disliking of iustice and execution of wholesome lawes that though the same turne to the hurt and mischiefe of some yet I like that better then that an inconuenience should grow to the publike state Let mē looke to themselues but that it is not requisite or needefull nor my part to deale in prescribing nor yet in aduising the wisedome of those that rule this State I am so farre of from hastening any particular mans vndoing that I wold wishe which I am assured is without mee thought of and sought that all meanes might bee vsed to the recalling of men home conferrence and other before execution especially of death And is it not so I doe but preuent the aduersaries cauill and shewe my purpose and meaning I neede not nor list not to wade any further heerein The particular rebellions in the North Irelande and such other sturs from time to time by your Catholike part as to well knowne to all men I here omit Further to diduct and come now to answere that which is obiected in this behalfe to vs by the aduersarie whiche generally consisteth as the former in doctrine and demeanour For our doctrine of Magistrats obedience as we professe no other then that which is set vs foorth and plainly layed vs down in the holy scriptures So I marueile agayne that M. Howlet beyng an Englishe man leaueth out those publique testimonies and wrytinges of our 〈◊〉 in this matter whiche to the viewe of the worlde are published by this Church both in Latine and Englishe to expresse their iudgement herein and chargeth our doctrine with particular mens bookes and teachings of late yeres to bring hatred and displeasure or spitefully to wrecke and reuenge himself vpon some one man if he can doe no more where of though some be aliue yet others are dead so can not answere for thēselues but their books must be their clering to all y t world If the godly doctrine we professe here had bin by you read with a single heart before rash iudgemēt wel weighed as in y e bookes aforesaid is declared you would haue forborne I take it these words y t our final end is as our doctrine declareth To haue no gouernour or ruler at all Whence you tooke this doctrine you y t are so ful of quotatiōs here quote vs nothing And we tell you plainly y t things deuised by your brame or picked out of your fingers ends be none of our doctrine wee say it is a great and vntrue slander ye charge this Church with Her Maiestie though diuers times disturbed in her State by you false Catholiks hath raigned in a Gospelling time nowe aboue twenty yeres as chiefe gouernor by y t doctrine of y t Gospel ruler ouer y t professors thereof in much honor great quiet highly to Gods glory her Maiesties singular cōmendation y t exceeding comfort of all true harted englishe mē her Maiesties natural most bonden subiects and many moe yeres may shee raigne we dayly do beseech y t almighty to y t promoting of Christs holy Gospel y t benefit of his Church her own comfort honor Though it be to y t regret renting of all popish Catholike hearts in Christendome To charge our doctrine about Magistates w tall you set vs down three or foure sentēces takē out of three worthie men Christes faithfull souldiers and seruantes in their time The first is M. John Wickliffe one of our progenitours say you one of the singular instrumentes that it pleased God in his time to vse for the aduauncement of his Gospel say we and so rare a one that hee might iustly bee counted among the rest a bright starre shining and giuing light to a great many to their inestimable comfort he opened long since such a wicket as greatly profited the postetitie in Gods matters The seconde whom you alleadge is Doctor Martin Luther whose rare and excellent giftes euery way mightily both astonished the highest of your side in state Ecclesiastical and 〈◊〉 and no lesse furthered and profited Gods cause and encouraged all the godly by his godly and learned writings and otherwise The thirde is that odde and incomparable man of our time The reuerende Father and most painefull and faithfull Pastor and Teacher in Christes Church M John Caluin Whom thogh your heart swelt you can not discredite among Gods seruantes nor iustly staine his trauailes and writings left among vs for the benefite of Gods Church so hath it pleased his maiestie to blesse this good mans labours The Diuell I confesse as in other hath beene very busie in his instruments to deface and disgrace this excellent man diuers wayes but euer their mischiefes returned vpon their owne pates and they euen as many as haue risen and bent thēselues against him haue had the foyle to their shame Although wee highly prayse God for these men and for his great gifts in them as in others giuing them likewise their due cōmēdation as reasō is yet would I y t you M. Howlet and your fellowes shoulde knowe we make none of them nor them all our Pope to depende of them and their authoritie ne yet the Authours of our religion as you do the man of sinne at Rome But we reserue this priuiledge to Jesus Christ alone w tout being addicted to any mans doctrine or writings for faith and religion further then he shal teach vs by canonicall scriptures All these men are dead gone ye might haue let them rest in peace w tout slanderously charging them if it had so pleased you M. Howlet But it shall not be amisse to enter into particular examination of that ye say first therefore let vs see what it is yee charge M. Wickliffe withall and howe you doe it Iohn Wickliffe say you one of their progenitors teacheth that a Prince if he rule euill or fal into mortal sinne is no longer prince but that his subiects may rise against him and punish him at their pleasures If Wyckliffe should haue holden any errour the times wherein he liued considered it were not greatly to be marueyled at God rather is highly to be praysed that in so corrupt and blinde times he sawe and helde the truth in
large entreate of Christian libertie the consciences of the faithfull as he doth in the other place of maister Caluin cited by you before and by this your misdealing doe wee see how necessary it was often and much to beate in that point In summe we say spirituall libertie in Christe and Politike subiection to Magistrates and Supertours may and doe very well agree and both are taught vs in the Scriptures and haue their place of practise From slaundering of these men that are dead commeth M. Howlet to those that are aliue Whose names hee quoteth downe in his margin mentioning a writing made in the dayes of Queene Marie which he doth but touche and I thinke needelesse to stay thereon considering the thinge being aforetime obtected by M. Harding hath been fully answered vnto by y e reuerend father of blessed memory Maister Iewell late Bishop of Sarisburie as is that of maister Luther before I perceiue that M. Howlet goeth all by report and heare say and seeketh to winne grace by 〈◊〉 other And where wisemen are wont diligently to respect circumstances in all doings he such is his humor throughout his Epistle careth neither what when nor in whom he reprooue so he may finde somwhat to carpe at in any professours of the Gospell I woulde M. Howlet for his owne sake were but so faithfull a seruant of God and her Maiestie and did but halfe so vprightly walke in his calling in zelously aduauncing the Gospell of Christe and dutifully obeying our Soueraigne as the men he nameth to their great commendation in singular modestie and vpright conscience at this day trauell to doe with no small fruite to the Churche and people of God among vs howe euer he obiect old matters to so worthy fathers M. howlets conclusion of this part of charging master Wickliffe mastar Luther master Caluin and the rest is that the Catholike Churche vtterly condemneth all these errours and teacheth her children otherwise and the contrary Nowe I aske M. Howlet if he exempt not the consciences of y t faithfull from Princes lawes and the power of all men with master Luther master Caluin how it commeth to passe that he and his felowes exempt themselues from her Maiesties obedience vnder pretence only of conscience as euen in the leafe before this we haue in hand in the name of y t 〈◊〉 he craueth pardon at her Maiesties hands for not yeelding to such conformitie in matters of religion as is demaunded at their hands which they cannot doe but by offence of their cōsciences c. And the end of all in him his authour is y t her Maiestie must take their disobedience refusall of conformitie for a ful satisfaction because they alleadge conscience Nowe if this among other bee an errour condemned by the Catholike Churche that the consciences of y t faithfull be exempted from the power of all men c. Why doe you being Catholikes as yee say follow it Why doe you make that your pretence Why doe you dwell therein If Princes lawes binde subiects to obedience in conscience so as they may not be exempted for their consciences but y t they must obey them as God himselfe whose roome they possesse and that vnder paine of mortall sinne and eternall damnation how hardly soeuer their Princes deale with thē in their gouernment c. Why learne you not that lesson Why reforme you not your consciences by Gods word that God and her Maiestie may haue due obedience of her Subiects which shee requireth and no more without complaining murmuring this bitter accusing ye tel her Maiestie of errors your selues run into thē headlong Ye wil by no meanes with Luther haue Christians free exempted from Princes lawes no not in their conseiences and yet by meanes of conscience you will exempt your selues what shoulde I say like not that in your selues yee condemne in other The difference gentle Reader betweene vs and them is as thou mayest perceiue that wee exempt mens consciences from all mortall men to giue them to God aboue alone to be guided by his holy worde no other wise which in deede her maiestie alloweth well of slaunder these fellowes what they can herein for her title of supreme gouernour ouer her subiects They without any warrant of Gods worde exempt not conscience but pretended or that they call conscience from dutifulnes to God and their lawfull Prince and Soueraigne in God to giue it to the Pope induced therto because they see her Maiestie to leaue mens consciences free vntouched hauing a tender care great respect therof Where conscience is in deed though it be but weake according to the doctrine of y t Scriptures Gospell where shee learned this not frō popery Pope to whose supreme authoritie grounded vpon suppositiōs false principles these coūterfeited Catholiks haue by reconcilement and oth betaken thēselues according to their rottē religion so defrauding God her Maiestie of their due abusing their Soueraigne authoritie themselues greatly After this commeth M. Howlet to note our demeanour heere passing other as hee saith hee setteth vs downe at large a matter doone the last Sommer at Stamforde and dwelling therin he reprooueth both the doctrine of certaine Preachers there and their demeanour also whereof he maketh no small a doe seditious pretendeth he was the doctrine there taught seditious was the vsage and yet I trowe nothing like to that of theirs in the North in Irelande nor that which I haue described before It is happy God made not him the Prince of this lande nor any of the State otherwise I perceiue the poore men had beene trounced he giueth sentence as though the matter were his owne when nothing was there doone against him and as for her Maiestie and the State they call not for his help in the gouernment heere But I see M. Howlet is still like himselfe that is past shame els woulde he haue blushed to haue spoken so vntruly of a matter so lately doone and so publikely in the face of all the worlde but let vs see what hee saith first he entreth into this matter to quitte as hee speaketh the Puritan that hath so infamed the Catholiks Therefore he thinketh good to diffame him againe Hee hath slaundered you M. Howlet with a matter in trouth as wee haue seene And you cannot forget an iniurie if it were one yee must needes bee quite with the Puritan Alas poore Puritan but it is happie your handes bee bound that yee can doe him no more harme haue you not powred out your spight enough against him before to be quitte with him You play as the Dogge doth that when a stone is flung at him runneth after the stone and for reuenge catcheth the same in his mouth When yee can finde no more matter in the man to raile vpon you immagine he sendeth out Preachers yee call them at Stamforde his Preachers Preachers at this day the more is the pitie
your pleasures without good warrant or ground and so may be reduced to cōformitie prescribed by superiours Your owne S. Thomas in his summe saith Q. 79. art 13. that conscience is no speciall facultie or power of the soule because it may bee laide away which the other cannot but bee that as it wil be A corrupt conscience such as yours is may and ought to bee laide away The reasons in your treatise as in place we finde deale little or nothing to proue the contrary to this I tell you or deale as you doe very hollowly being grounded altogether vpon supposition which not grounded on Gods truth in matters of Religion is a rotten post for conscience to leane vpon Trye your consciences in religion by right iudgemēt and good vnderstanding taken out of Gods booke runne not vpon false suppositions and we shalbe soone at an ende I still maruell M. Howlet how you can exempt your cōsciences from 〈◊〉 and so from her 〈◊〉 that before condemned these sentences as errours That the consciences of the faithfull are exempted from the power of all men that Chistians are fre and exempted from all Princes lawes as touching their consciences c. For you admit this exposition of the former sentence in saying that Caluin and Luther holde therein one doctrine whereof I haue spokē in his place The matter is that your Secondary faith and alleageance sworne vnto her Highnesse as to the sub stitute of God thus yee speake is at the Popes pleasure broken and nowe discharged of that faith by his warrant and the same bestowed vpon him and such as hee wyll appoint without good warrant from God or her Maiestie In the meane while we will take as graunted by you this Maxime or supposition That conscience dependeth of iudgement vnderstanding and not of affect will albeit in your case this wholy raignethin you therefore seemeth not be conscience But because pretended conscience is the grounde of these mens whole matter and the only shift of excuse that both M Howlet and his authour haue to cloke their disobedience withal let mee be bold with thee gentle Reader somewhat at large to vnfolde some parte of their Popish 〈◊〉 in this case of conscience which that I may the better doe I will first set downe some of both their wordes agreeing in this point together Then examining in generall the popish doctrine whereon they grounde themselues without all Scripture yea contrary to Scripture common reason and hon estie also as the same is deliuered vnto vs in their bookes by the principall 〈◊〉 of their religion I will shewe howe godlesly and howe hollowly they may be found to speake write and thinke in the whole enough in my opinion to bring their religion into vtter 〈◊〉 detestation and hatred for broching vs such abhominable abhominations Afterwarde God willing returning to M. Howlets wordes againe and comparing them with the doctrine of the Scripture will I so much as I shall thinke needefull answere the same particularly Thus writeth M. Howlet of this matter heere at large 12 Now because as the Philosopher saith that is onely good vnto euery man which ech mans vnderstanding tel leth him to be good vnto the which the Scripture and 〈◊〉 agree when they say that wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience 〈◊〉 followeth that what soeuer wee doe contrary to our iudgement and conscience is according to the Apostle damnable Because wee decerne it to bee euill and yet doe it So that howe good soeuer the action in it selfe were as for example if a Gentile shoulde for feare say or sweare that there were a Messias yet vnto the doer it should be a damnable sinne because it seemed naught in his iudgement and conscience and therefore to him it shall bee so accounted at the last day Which thing hath made all good men from time to time to stande very scrupulously in defence of their conscience and not to commit any thinge against the sentence and approbation of the same All Princes also Potentates of the woorlde haue abstained from the beginning for the very same consideration from enforcing men to Actes against their consciences especially in religion as the histories both before Christe and since doo declare And amongest the very Turkes at this day no man is compelled to doe any act of their religion except he renonuce first his owne And in the Indies and other farre partes of the worlde where infinite Infidels are vnder the gouernemente of Christian Princes it was neuer yet practised nor euer thought lawfull by the Catholike Churche that suche men shoulde bee inforced to any one acte of our religion And the reason is for that if the doing of such actes shoulde 〈◊〉 sinne vnto the doers because they doe them against their conscience then muste needes the inforcement of suche Actes be muche more greeuous and damnable sinne to the inforcers Mary notwithstanding this when a man hath receiued once the Christian Catholike religion and will by new deuises and singularitie corrupte the same by running out and makinge dissention in Christe his bodie as all Heretikes doe then for the conseruation of vnitie in the Church and sor restraint of this mans furye and pride the Churche hath alwayes from the beginning allowed that the Ciuill Magistrate shoulde recalle suche a fellowe by temporall punishment to the vnitie of the whole bodie againe as all the holy Fathers write to bee most necessarie especially suche as hadde most to doe with suche men as Cyprian Ierome Optatus Augustine Leo Gregorie and Bernarde And Saint Austin in diuers places recalleth backe againe his opinion whiche hee sometimes helde to the contrary So that wee keeping still our olde religion and hauing not gone out from the Protestantes but they from vs wee cannot bee enforced by any iustice to doe any acte of their religion HEnce yee gather y t because ye alleadge your conscience in this cause of yours Therfore neither may ye do there against vnder paine of damnatiō neither be enforced to doe otherwise then you doe vnder like paine to the enforcers and because yee sawe you shoulde be excepted vpon two wayes yee prouide answere for the same first If it bee alleadged against you as is by vs very truly alleadged that the thing yee are called vnto is godly honest and good and seemely to bee yeelded vnto and therefore no reason you shoulde in this case bee left to your pretended conscience to followe that whiche is euill but that you shoulde giue ouer and take a newe course Yee affirme howe good soeuer the action in it selfe bee whervnto yee are called yet the yeelding is damnable sinne to the doer because it seemeth naught in his iudgement and conscience and therefore to him it shall bee so accounted at the last day So he must bee left to his
to the inferiour partes as the will and affections shoulde speake thus and more too in morall philosophie And yet ywis this Prince is many times but ill fauouredly sighted and worse followed and obeyed the truth and experience also telleth vs farther y t mens mindes are corrupted their vnderstanding blinded and become so weake and dull in heauenly thinges in deede to speake no more that too 〈◊〉 nowe can they or will they tell what is good and godly one that is pooreblinde hath but an euill eye to direct and guid a mans body aright A blinde eye guideth yet woorse or nothing at all and yet this is of it selfe mans reason and vnderstanding to leade him in good godly thinges I thinke your selfe wil graunt me for the most parte vnlesse the eyes of our vnderstanding be lightened by Gods holy spirit and framed frō aboue The light of the body is the eye sayth our Sauiour Christ if thē thine eye be single thy whole body shalbe lyght But if thine eye be euil thē thy body is dark Wherfore if the light which is in thee be darkenes how great is that darkenes If therefore thy whole body shal be light hauing no part darke saith he in S. Luke then shall all be light euen as when a candel doeth light thee with the brightnes Your D. Thomas halfe a Philosopher halfe a Diuine could yet decide the matter thus out of the Psalme Many say who shall shew vs good thinges the light of thy countenance Lorde is marked vpon vs as though he should say the light of reason that is in vs can so farre shewe vs good thinges and rule our will as it is the light of thy countenance that is taken from thy countenance the naturall man is not capable of the thinges of the spirit of God for they are foolishnes vnto him neither can he know thē because they are spiritually descerned sayth the Apostle And againe the thinges whiche eye hath not seene neither eare hath hearde neither came into mans heart which God hath prepared for them that loue him but God hath reuealed thē vnto vs by his spirit c. Doe not the contrary opinions that be in mens mindes not of the common sort only where as the common saying is verified So many men so many mindes but euen in the wisest and grauest Philosophers themselues declare the defect that is in mans vnderstanding to guide him by What Philosopher euer knew himselfe aright not knowing the corruption of mans nature Did not one of the greatest of them professe that hee knewe this onely that he knewe nothing was not the name of wisedome and wise men refused among the wisest of them And they content to be called but philosophers that is louers of wisedome onely Did not the Academikes confesse and professe the vncertaintie and weakenes of mans mind and vnderstanding What vnderstanding of man euer conceiued the mistery of Christes incarnation that the word was made flesh or that one should be borne of a virgin such other misteries of our religion In deede they were no Mysteries if mans vnderstanding coulde reache and attaine vnto them Fleshe and bloode hath not reuealed this vnto thee but my father whiche is in heauen sayth our Sauiour Christ vnto Peter confessing him Is that onely good to euery man which ech mans vnderstanding telleth him to be good then farewell in effect all goodnesse in Christes religion Did not the imagination and opinion that there are many Gods greater and lesser c proceede from this puddle of mans vnderstanding whiles he would thereby measure the nature of God Whence grew al the superstitions y t euer were in the world but frō y t vanitie of mens minds their vnderstāding reason Well sayth the Apostle that men became vaine in their reasonings their folish heart was darkned whē they professed themselues to be wise they became fooles c. Is that onely good vnto euery man which ech mans vnderstanding telleth him to be good How if mans vnderstanding and the worde of God disagree as they doe too too often shall that onely be good for him that his vnderstanding telleth him to be good In the Infidels iudgement and conscience it seemeth good to saye there is no Messias it must be good for him by your doctrine to holde that and to yeeld 〈◊〉 doe thereafter is not wicked The doctrine of the Libertines and such as hold and teache that hand ouer head men should follow the motions of the spirit lesse absurde then yours heerein you saye that is onely good to euery man which each mans vnderstanding telleth him to be good they say the spirite mooueth me to this or that therefore I must doe it goodly wordes of youres in Aristotles philosophie and so foorth theirs in diuinitie with better shewe then youres which yet you would make vs beleeue that scriptures and diuines agree But leauing the rule of the scriptures Gods law both are very dangerous and euil to rule men by How far are ye of from that pernitious doctrine that euery one shalbe saued by his owne religion vnlesse possible you will haue all men saued without any religion if that onely be good to euery man which eche mans vnderstanding telleth him to be good The Idolaters vnderstanding telleth him that idolatry is good the blasphemers that blasphemie c. here is a confusiō of good in deed The wiseman sayth that the way of a foole is right in his owne eyes is that and that onely good to him neither of both surely for hee addeth But he that heareth counsaile is wise What is to say euill is good and good euill If this be not to say that is onely good vnto euery man which ech mans vnderstanding telleth him to be good But let me giue you an example out of the same booke of your Maister Aristotle that you here alleadge because that possible may more preuaile with you speaking of many honest and commendable thinges in praysing as he doeth in your place alleadged of many good and profitable in counsailing hee teacheth that to bee reuenged of ones enemies rather then to be reconciled is commendable rendreth the reason for sayth hee to render euil for euil or to requite is a iust thing euery iust thing is cōmendable The Doctrine I ween learned out of this your Maister Aristotle the Philosopher made you to inuent lyes of the faft at Stamforde to quite as you say the Puritan and to write many such like thinges as wee reade in this your Epistle dedicatorie To be euen with one is a iust and a commendable thinge but howe euer this quite the 〈◊〉 it is quite contrary to the Scriptures and heauenly doctrine of Christ and his Apostles Your Maister Aristotle also in the same place you cite sayth those things are good profitable which euery mā is most affected and dilighted withall as the Warriour
Oracle according to Christs answere so you beeleeue geuen Fryer Thomas by the mouth of the Image of the crucifixe Thou hast written well of me Thomas Furdermore if one woulde enter into more particular examination of that you say it were not harde to improoue this your subtile exposition and by as good ground to ascribe to the father authority to the sonn natiuitie or with the scripture power grace which you appropriate to the father and the holy Ghost And to the holy Ghost communitie of the father the son vnitie societie charitie or else power which you ascribe here to the father as it may be to both the father and the holy Ghost c. This were not hard for him to do y t were disposed to dally w t the Scriptures and truth of God as you do drawing y t same into diuers vncertain expositiōs too irreligeously Gregory hath not one word of sin against the holy Ghost in place ye quote I graunt you he speaketh of insirmitie ignorance and purpose but euery sinne done aduisedly or of purpose is not sinne against the holy Ghost I pray you sir if these your catholikes did commit a sinne and that a greeuous sinne in haunting Protestants churches which I trust they doe with better and more religious minds than you iudge or hereafter at least will Iudge nothing beefore the time vntill the Lorde come c. and so sinne not at all But serue God faythfully But I say put the case there be some such naughtie men then God amende them But why I pray you may they not be iudged to do y t they do of humane frailtie as did Peter seeing you say they doe it for feare fauour or some worldly cause This is but hard freedome harde election and hardly to be called meere will and malice if al these termes be admitted to define sinne against the holy Ghost Augustines modestie noted by Thomas would haue beseemed you This is a deepe question let the light of exposition thereof be sought for of the Lorde I tel you beloued there is not possible a greater nor a harder questiō in al the holy Scriptures Thus far Augustine Whose description both Petrus Lombardus and Thomas auowe and like better then I doe youres There seeme ywis moe thinges required in the description of it than you heere expresse In your heat you shake vp these your catholikes God make them wise and you shall gaine little eyther by them or by that kinde of handling It is better going to the Popes hell or by his pretended sending thither than by his that is able to destroy both body and soule in hell fire Wherefore let vs feare him that is the eternall God which alone hath power to saue and to destroy I speake not all this while to defend any man in doing against conscience any thing or if these men haue so shaken off al reniorce of conscience that they are lulled a sleepe in securitie I with them to awake to learne a better religion which is ioyned with conscience I answere the aduersaries vniust charge and threat and hope the best of such as communicate with Christes church and religion here professed or shewe them whereto they haue at least to trust I woulde haue none flatter themselues in euill which these men cariyng such a conscience as he here speaketh of or suche a minde and not altering the same doe and are in a dangerous case for nourishing such a serpent in their bosome as is poperie and yet dissemble with all the worlde in pretending to be of another religion The mans talke here hauing been possible abrode a shriuing of many or taken it frō them that haue so done and so knowing their consciences better then we that liue among them and are dayly conuersant with them for that we sift not their consciences may make one doubte there bee manye hollowe harted Catholikes among vs or worldlinges rather and Atheistes for in deed such are vtterly without God haue no cōscience at al. I wishe them therefore to looke about thē men may be damned many a one is damned for other sins thē the sin against the holy Ghost how euer they sinne that greeuously I dare not say they sinne against the holy Ghost for al this or may not ' be good mē in time to cōe Thus make I mine argumēt against y e aduersarie Nothing supposed to be done of feare fauour or other passiō can be iustly called sin against the holy Ghost The Catholikes cōmunicating w t our churches is a thing supposed to be done of feare fauour or other passion euen by this man and other of that syde Therefore the Catholikes communicating with our Churches can not bee iustly called sinne against the holy Ghost Thus far of those that you accompt the worst and to to badde Catholikes I pray God we may find them good Christians And yet if they haue learned any euill they haue learned it of your religion and in your schoole I haue beene herein the longer bicause the whole booke seemeth to be written against this kinde of men God open their eyes they may see knowe and discerne their friendes from their foes bee carefull and watchfull amending at least in time to come that which is amisse The third sort of catholikes or the seconde as you tearm them quite leauing out such as your selfe are agree but in one of the three points I spake of before dissent in two they iudge all religions beside theyr owne say you false erronious damnable this haue they cōmon with other Romane catholikes but they thinke it lawfull for some worldly respect as for sauing their offices dignities liberties credits or the like to shewe themselues conformable men in going to church and other church proceedinges here c. thinking also other too scrupulous that stand in refusal of y e same This make you y e proper difference of these from other catholikes Nowe as they agree with the rest in the first point so in going to church taking othe communicating c. they disagree from hot Catholikes and agree therein with those I haue at large discoursed of euen now te The more I perceiue they acquaint them selues with the Gospell of Christ here professed and receiued the more dutifull they shewe them selues to her Matestie the worse bee they liked of you but the matter is not great Albeit these agree no better with you hot Catholikes but dissent in mo pointes then the other that went afore yet ye thought it pollicie belike hauing so scourged and taken vp those somewhat here to spare these men least you should do your religion too much hurt if you should fal too farre out with all besides your selues In places elsewhere you take them vp very sharply thogh but here thinking good to forbe are least you should want another mayne branche of your tree yee haue thought good to make
corruptions and haue floung them out of the Text of Scriptures and restored the truth and the Text But your religion towards the Pope and Poperie hath taken away all religion towardes God and his worde As may bee seene in infinite places of the Bible obserued by the godly and learned aforetime and nowe a dayes and by diuers of your owne side and notably in the Newe Testament by Faber Valla Erasmus c. and by those that haue examined and answered your Trent Coūcell as Caluin Kemnitius other To whose writings I refer the Christiā Reader herein to turn all that heere is saide against vs and our translation vpon the Papistes and their corrupt translation of the holy scriptures which I would haue forborne to haue entred into except necessitie and this discoursers importunitie had pulde mee into this odious matter to shew the Papistes partiall and hollowe dealing heerein Nowe because this common Latine translation of the Bible hath gone and still doth with many vnder the name of Hierome his translation and hath gotten thereby credit for the man his great learning our aduersaries also as seemeth woulde faine haue it reputed for Hierom his Therfore shall it not be amisse out of many places to bring one out of Hierome in his Commentaries vpon the Scriptures which plainely condemneth and reprooueth these Gentlemens corrupt translation as not good and so none of Hieromehis A little leauen corrupteth the whole lumpe Thus the olde translation as they call it Hierome thus a little leauē leaueneth or sowreth the whole lump immediatly after in his Cōmentarie on those words It is ill in our Latine bookes saith hee a little leauen corrupteth the whole lumpe and the interpreter translated rather his owne meaning than the Apostle his wordes c. A shrewde checke of your translation by Hierome Why will yee not mende it If you say it bee Hieromes Why will yee not let him mende it But let vs proceede for y e place of the second booke of the Machabees which is the seconde faulte you find in our trāslatiō of y e Bible cōsidering y t it is neuer read in our publike church meetings you might haue spared y t frō being a fault in our seruice sauing y t wher you find none ye think good to deuise imagine faults to put the same vpon vs will we nill wee If ye had had any store ye might would no doubt haue made better fitter choyse to haue found faulte with the English translation read in our assemblies either your skill is not great or your store poore and slender or lastly our English Bibles too well translated to bee iustly controuled by you Your conclusion grounded vppon so weake and slender premises or proofes thereof must needes but ill fauouredly followe This I say and when I haue saide yet reporte mee too any learned indifferente Reader vppon conference with the Greeke to Judge that in these bookes of the Maccabees which are among the Apocrypha as they are called that is priuately and secretly read rather thē opēly approued receiued to be canonical scriptures as Hierom sayth Our english bibles keepe more 〈◊〉 and come neerer to the Greek text than your vulgar translation and more helpe vpon conference shall the Englishe Reader haue to vnderstande the sense of the Authour than at the other Although in deede the Greeke it selfe euen here be somewhat diffused and darke And therefore no maruaile the originall or fountaine being troubled if translations bee not the playnest Iosephus a Iewe hath in Hebrew written fiue bookes of the Iewishe Hystories from their captiuitie in Babylon vntyll Pilate their President In which bookes among other thinges are written the worthye Actes of the Maccabees And entreating this very place in that booke he maketh no mention of this prayer for the dead And this Ioseph Ben Gorion is thought to bee that Iason of Cyrenae out of whome this booke of the Maccabees was taken as an Abrigemēt So as I maruaile howe that shoulde orderly come into the Abrigement whiche is not founde in the bodie of the storie written at large And yet the Abridger doth but tel his opinion of Iudas and his facte wherein if he haue not said and done as he shoulde let him as he requesteth in the ende be pardoned especially seeing he leueth the truth of things in particular to the Authour Besides this it is noted to be noted to be contrary to the custome of the Iewes euen to this day to sacrifice or pray for the dead And what commaundement or warrant is there in God his Lame for the same Lastly to leaue other thinges the example of Razis in killing himselfe an ancient and famous man among the Iewes seemeth likewise to be commended in this storie by this abridger which is not iustifiable by the scriptures though Yee neede not therefore make so great a doe 〈◊〉 the one particular example of Iudas thus commended here to grounde a doctrine thereon for oblations and prayers for the dead nor checke our English translation in the 12. Chapter of the 2. booke of the Maccabees if you consider the matter well sauing that where you haue little or no proofe as the Canonicall Scriptures prooue not that article there you had neede make much of a little or but of the shewe of a thing onely Your deuised Purgatorie and Diriges and Masses haue made this doctrine of prayer for the dead so gainefull vnto you as you are nowe lothe to let it goe The godlie learned and my good brother D. Fulke a paineful and profitable minister in Christs church easeth mee heere by his trauaile As he doth in many other places that I may nowe the more haste to an ende that the Reader findeth not in one to his contentment that possible may he finde in the other I referre therefore to him in that may be here missing and walke somewhat the more confidently and at large after him and his answere hereto which is gone before because he is well knowen God haue the glorie to be so sufficient as he is Thus much concerning the Scripture read in our Assemblies c. So yee speake too lauishly and lewdly Let the reader by this iudge in the rest of your vpright honest and plaine dealing which if you write againe I wishe you to bee better aduised in if you haue respect to your honestie and good name You say and belie vs that throughout the Scripture where idoles are forbidden we translate it images And here in your margin yesay See the English Byble Dedicated to King Henry It is worth the noting that where this gentleman findeth such fault with the Byble Dedicated as he saith To King Henry y e 8. chargeth vs or side and men with that translation those of his owne side then approued the same and some of the greatest Clergie men were then 〈◊〉 and dealers therein He shall neuer bee able