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A41388 Firmianus and Dubitantius, or, Certain dialogues concerning atheism, infidelity, popery, and other heresies and schisme's that trouble the peace of the church and are destructive of primitive piety written in a plain and easie method for the satisfaction of doubting Christians / by Tho. Good. Good, Thomas, 1609-1678. 1674 (1674) Wing G1029; ESTC R23950 83,883 174

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discending to the second thence to the third and so on to the succeding ages of the Church whereby he will perceive how the true Religion has been handed downe from one age to another and how and when this or that errour sprang up as he ●hat sails down some great and clear pure river may easily perceive where little Rivuletts and puddles have run into it and have muddyed and troubled the Cleare● Stream Firm. I much approve of what you say concerning the rise and cause of errours in Religion the chiefe reason of them is ignorance in the records of Antiquity and holy Scriptures and want of orderly proceeding in our studies from age to age whereby we may easily perceive how and when the puddles corrupt rivule●s of errour have troubled the purer stream of Christianity and you may without much labour perceive that if you had been well instructed in the being and Attributes of Almighty God in a firm beliefe of his most sacred word you had never fallen into those most dangerous errours of Popery Quakerism or o● any such pernicous sect Dub. I do confesse my error and especially that I was so great a stranger not onely to the writings of the fathers but to the holy Scripture it selfe which I did too much neglect and scorn but seeing by Gods blessing upon your endeavours I am fully satisfied of the vanity absurdity and falshood of Atheism infidelity and Popery if you please to give your self th●t trouble we will proceed in our discourse concerning Quakerism Anabaptism Independency and Presbytery I shall not trouble you with any other sect because they are all included in some one of these or at least are so vain and ridiculous that we should do them to much honour if we should gratifie them with a sober and serious confutation Firm. I shall most willingly embrace your proposall and if it please you we will proceed to Quakerism the errour which you embraced immediatly before you turned Papist and in truth 't is a faire introduction to Popery and by many grosse errours which the Quakers embrace 't is as evident as the light at noon day who were the fathers of those spurious brats Dub. This is a very truth the Quakers holding many things which are maintained by Papists we may easily know whose Children these poor deluded Souls are and the Corespondence betwixt them made my passage to Rome more ready and easy DIALOGVE IV Against QVAKERISM Firm. You have informed me in our last discourse that being sometime a quaker you had a ready way open to become a Papist I pray tell me why and how you turned a quaker Dub. You put me hard to it for I can give yo● no ver● good reasons for that change and those that moved me are so ridiculous that I am almost ashamed to name them yet such as they are I shall give you the trouble of hearing them I am almost perswaded that the man that perverted me used some enchantments and Diabolicall arts so that I was rather bewitched then rationally perswaded to be of that party as I have heard some have been but because I am not certain of this I shall wave it and shew you my reasons 1. I observed that the cause why there were so many sects and schisms in the world was for want of a certain infallible rule to guide us in our judgments and practises as I was made believe and I was perswaded that the Quakers had such a rule to wit the light within them 2. I observed these men to be very demure in their carriage very austere in their lives sober and temp●●●t● of afflicted dejected countenances very punctuall and just in their dealings not abating one fart●ing of the price of any commodity they first demanded gre●t contemners of the world no respecters of any mans person how great soever so meeke humble and lowly in their apparell and behavior that they cannot endure the wearing of gold-rings silver or silks in themselves or any others and if any man should strike them on the one cheek these poore innocent soules were so farr from revenge that they would turne the other so that I conceiued them to be so many Nathaniels so many true Israelites in whom there was no guile Firm. How could you be deceived by such painted sepulchers what could you see more in them then what was conspicuous in the Scribes and Phari●ees of old take i● for an infalible rule that whosoever hold or practise any thing which is contrary to the law of nature and good manners expresse Scripture the usages of all sober and civill people in the world are so farr from being true Christians that they are not worthy the name of men Dub. I am fully of your perswasion that these men hold and practise many things which are contrary to the law of nature good manners and holy Scripture but for my farther satisfaction let us discourse some of their tenents and practises Firm. For their tenents you may at your leisure peruse the Synopsis of Quakerisme wrote by Mr. Danson The heads whereof are breifly these taken out of their owne writings which are a mixture of Popery and Socinianisme as 1. They affirm that there are not three persons in the Trinity 2. That Christ did not make satisfaction for the sins of men 3. That justification is not by imputed righteousness but that our owne inhaerent righteousness and good works is the cause of our justification 4. That a state of perfection and freedome from sin is attainable in this life 5. That there is a light in every man sufficient to guide him to salvation 6. That the Scripture is not the word of God or a standing rule of faith and manners 7. That there is no resurrection of the dead 8. That there is no need or use of ordinances as Baptisme and the Lords Supper 9. That 't is unlawfull to take an oath before a Magistrate upon any account whatsoever Dub. I know these and many more to be the positions of quakers and that they are directly contrary to sacred Schripture Firm. These things are so clearly confuted by the expresse word of God and tradition of the Catholick Church that 't is superfluous to trouble you with any further discourse about them As for their practises they are extreamly opposite to all good manners and the Civilities of a●l Nations that are not grosly barbarous as well as ●o the holy Scripture and whereas you have observed their carriages to be very demure austere and that they are of a sad countenance 't is no more then what our blessed Saviour reproved in the Scribes and Pharisees long since indeed to be sad and mourn in times of publick Humiliation Calamities and great Judgements is Christian but to be constanly so savours too much of the Pharisee and is contrary to holy Scripture which instructs us there is a time to Laugh as well as to Weepe there is nothing which more delights and cheers the