the rest of the Images of the Saints in memorie and honour of them whom they figure as also their places and Relickes ought to be worshipped with processions bendings of the knee bowings of the bodie incensings kissings offerings lighting of candles and pilgrimages together with all other maners and formes whatsoever as hath beene accustomed to be done in our or our predecessors times And in the Romane Catechisme set out by the appointment of the Councell of Trent the Parish priest is required to declare unto his parishioners not onely that it is lawfull to have images in the Church and to give honour and worship unto them for asmuch as the honour which is done unto them is referred unto the things which they represent but also that this hath still beene done to the great good of the faithfull and that the Images of the Saints are put in Churches aswell that they may be worshipped as that we being admonished by their example might conforme our selves unto their life and maners Now for the maner of this worship we are told by one of their Bishops that it must not onely be confessed that the faithfull in the Church doe adore before the Images as some peradventure would cautelously speake but also adore the Image it selfe without what scruple you will yea they doe reverence it with the same worship wherewith they doe the thing that is represented thereby Wherefore saith he if that ought to be adored with Latrîa or divine worship this also is to bee adored with Latrîa if with Dulîa or Hyperdulîa this likewise is to be adored with the same kinde of worship And so we see that Thomas Aquinas doth directly conclude that the same reverence is to be given unto the Image of Christ and to Christ himselfe and by consequence seeing Christ is adored with the adoration of LatrÃa or divine worship that his image it to be adored with the adoration of Latrîa Vpon which place of Thomas Fryar Pedro de Cabrera a great Master of Divinitie in Spaine doth lay downe these conclusions I. It is simply and absolutely to be said that holy Images are to be worshipped in Churches â—ut of Churches and the contrary is an hereticall doctrine for explication wherof he declareth that by this worshipping he meaneth that signes of service and submission are to be exhibited unto Images by embracing lightes oblation of incense uncovering of the head c. and that this conclusion is a doctrine of faith collected out of the holy Scripture by which it appeareth that things created yea although they be senselesse so that they be consecrated unto God are to be adored II. Images are truely and properly to be adored and out of an intention to adore themselves and not onely the samplers that are represented in them This conclusion which he maketh to be the common resolution of the Divines of that side he opposeth against Durand his followers who helde that Images are adored onely improperly because they put men in minde of the persons represented by them who are then adored before the images as if they had beene there really present But this opinion he saith is censured by the latter Divines to be dangerous rash and savouring of heresie yea and by Fr. Victoria to be plainely hereticall For if Images be adored only improperly they are not to be adored simply absolutely which is a manifest heresie saith Cabrera And if Images were onely to be worshipped by way of rememoration and recordation because they make us remember the samplers which we doe so worship as if they had beene then present it would follow that all creatures should be adored with the same adoration wherewith we worship God seeing all of them doe lead us unto the knowledge and remembrance of God and God is present in all things III. The doctrine delivered by Thomas that the Image and the sampler represented by it is to be worshipped with the same act of adoration is most true most pious and very consonant to the decrees of Faith This he saith is the doctrine not onely of Thomas and of all his disciples but also of all the old Schoole-men almost and particularly he quoteth for it Cajetan Capreolus Paludanus Ferrariensis Antonius Soto Alexander of Hales Albertus Magnus Bonaventura Richardus de Mediavilla Dionysius Carthusianus Major Masilius Thomas Waldensis Turrecremata Angestus Clichtoveus Turrian and Vazquez In a word it is the constant judgement of Divines saith Azorius the Iesuite that the Image is to be honoured and worshipped with the same honour and worship wherewith that is worshipped whereof it is an image Against this use or rather horrible abuse of Images to what purpose should we heape up anie testimonyes of holy Scripture if the words of the second commandement uttered with Gods owne mouth with thundring and lightning upon mount Sinai may not be heard Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any graven Image nor the likenesse of any thing that is in heaven above or in the earth beneath or in the water under the earth Thou shalt not bowe downe to them nor worship them Which thunderclap from heaven the guides of the Romish Church discerning to threaten sore that fearefull Idolatrie which daily they commit thought fit in wisedome first to conceale the knowledge of this from the people by excluding those words out of the Decalogue that went abroad for common use under pretence forsooth of including it in the first Commandement and then afterwards to put this conceite into mens heads that this first commandement was so farre from condemning the veneration of Images that it commanded the same and condemned the contrarie neglect thereof And therefore Laurence Vaux in his Catechisme unto this Question Who breaketh the first Commandement of God by unreverence of God frameth this Answere They that doe not give due reverence to God and his Saints or to their Relickes and IMAGES and Iacobus de Graffijs in his explication of the same Commandement specifieth the due reverence here required more particularly namely that we should reverence everie Image with the same worship that we doe him whose image it is that is to say that wee impart Latrîa or divine worship to the Image of God or of Christ or to the signe of the Crosse also in asmuch as it bringeth the Passion of our Lord unto our minde and that we use the adoration of Hyperdulîa at the Image of the holy Virgin but of Dulìa at the Images of other Saints And can there be found thinke you among men a more desperate impudencie then this that not onely the practise of this wretched Idolatrie should be maintayned against the expresse commandement of almightie God but also that hee himselfe should be made the author and commander of it even in that verie place where he doth so severely forbid it and reveale his wrath from heaven against the ungodlinesse and unrighteousnesse
AN ANSWER TO A CHALLENGE MADE BY A IESUITE in JRELAND WHEREIN THE IVDGEMENT OF ANTIQUITY in the points questioned is truely delivered and the Noveltie of the now ROMISH doctrine plainly discovered By IAMES VSSHER Bishop of Meath MATTH 19.8 From the beginning it was not so DUBLIN Printed by the Societie of Stationers 1624. TO HIS MOST SACRED MAIESTIE IAMES BY THE GRACE OF God King of great BRITAINE FRANCE and IRELAND Defender of the Faith c. Most Gratious and Dread Soveraigne WEe finde it recorded for the everlasting honour of Theodosius the yonger that it was his use to reason with his Bishops of the things contained in the holy Scriptures as if he himselfe had beene one of their order and of the Emperour Alexius in latter dayes that whatsoever time hee could spare from the publike cares of the Common-wealth hee did wholly employ in the diligent reading of Gods booke and in conferring thereof with worthy men of whom his Court was never empty How little inferiour or how much superiour rather your Majestie is to either of these in this kind of praise I neede not speake it is acknowledged even by such as differ from you in the point of Religion as a matter that hath added more than ordinary lustre of ornament to your Royall estate that you doe not forbeare so much as at the time of your bodily repast to have for the then like feeding of your intellectuall part your Highnesse table surrounded with the attendance and conference of your grave and learned Divines VVhat inward joy my heart conceived as oft as I have had the happinesse to be present at such seasons I forbeare to utter onely I will say with Job that the eare which heard you blessed you and the eye which saw you gave witnesse to you But of all other things which I observed your singular dexteritie in detecting the frauds of the Romish Church and untying the most knotty arguments of the Sophisters of that side was it I confesse that I admired most especially where occasion was offred you to utter your skill not in the word of God alone but also in the Antiquities of the Church wherein you have attained such a measure of knowledge as with honour to God I trust I may speake it without flatterie to you in a well studied Divine we would account verie commendable but in such a Monarch as your selfe almost incredible And this is one cause most Gratious Soveraigne beside my generall duty and the many speciall obligations wherby I am otherwise bound unto your Majestie which hath emboldned me to intreat your patience at this time in vouchsafing to be a spectator of this combate which I am now entred into with a Iesuite who chargeth us to disallow many chiefe articles which the Saints and Fathers of the Primitive Church did generally hold to be true and undertaketh to make good that they of his side doe not disagree from that holy Church either in these or in any other point of Religion Now true it is if a man doe only attend unto the bare sound of the word as in the question of Merit for example or to the thing in generall without descending into the particular consideration of the true ground thereof as in the matter of Praying for the dead he may easily be induced to beleeve that in divers of these controversies the Fathers speake cleerely for them and against us neither is there any one thing that hath wonne more credit to that religion or more advanced it in the consciences of simple men than the conformitie that it retaineth in some words and outward observances with the ancient Church o◠Christ. Whereas if the thing it selfe were narrowly looked into it would be found that they have onely the shell without the kernell and we the kernell without the shell they having retained certaine words and rites of the ancient Church but applied them to a new invented doctrine and we on the other side having relinquished these words and observances but retained neverthelesse the same primitive doctrine unto which by their first institution they had relation The more cause have I to count my selfe happy that am to answer of these matters before a King that is able to discerne betwixt things that differ and hath knowledge of all these questions before whom therefore I may speake boldly because I am perswaded that none of these things are hid from him For it is not of late daies that your Majestie hath begun to take these things into your consideration from a childe have you beene trained up to this warfare yea before you were twenty yeeres of age the Lord had taught your hands to fight against the man of sinne and your fingers to make battell against his Babel Whereof your Paraphrase upon the Revelation of S. John is a memorable monument left to all posterity which I can never looke upon but those verses of the Pöet runne alwaies in my minde Caesaribus virtus contigit ante diem Jngenium coeleste suis velocius annis Surgit ignavae fert mala damna morae How constant you have beene ever since in the profession and maintenance of the truth your late protestation made vnto both the houses of your Parlament giveth sufficient evidence So much whereof as may serve for a present antidote against that false and scandalous Oration spread amongst forrainers under your Majesties sacred name I humbly make bold to insert in this place as a perpetuall testimony of your integrity in this behalfe WHAT my religion is my bookes doe declare my profession and my behaviour doe shew and J hope in God J shall never live to be thought otherwise sure I am J shall never deserve it And for my part I wish that it might be written in Marble and remaine to posteritie as a marke upon me when I shall swerve from my Religion for he that doth dissemble with God is not to be trusted by man My Lords I protest before God my heart hath bled when I have heard of the increase of Popery and God is my Judge it hath beene so great a griefe unto me that it hath beene like thornes in mine eies and prickes in my sides so farre have I beene and ever shall be from turning any other way And my Lords and Gentlemen you all shall bee my Confessors if J knew any way better than other to hinder the growth of Poperie I would take it and he cannot be an honest man who knowing as J doe and being perswaded as I am would doe otherwise As you have so long since begun and happily continued so goe on most renowned King and still shew your selfe to be a Defender of the faith fight the Lords battells couragiously honour him evermore and advance his truth that when you have fought this good fight and finished your course and kept the faith you may receive the Crowne of righteousnesse reserved in heaven
in them of the first 400 years In what Pope his dayes was the true Religion overthrowne in Rome Next I would faine know How can your Religion be true which dissalloweth of many chiefe articles which the Saints and Fathers of that primitive Church of Rome did generally hold to be true For they of your side that have read the Fathers of that unspotted Church can well testifie and if any deny it it shall be presently shewen that the Doctors Pastors and Fathers of that Church doe allow of Traditions that they acknowledge the real presence of the body of Christ in the Sacrament of the Altar that they exhorted the people to confesse their sinnes unto their ghostly Fathers that they affirmed that Priests have power to forgive sinnes that they taught that there is a Purgatory that prayer for the dead is both commendable and godly that there is Limbus Patrum and that our Saviour descended into Hell to deliver the ancient Fathers of the Old Testament because before his Passion none ever entred into Heaven that prayer to Saints and use of holy Images was of great account amongst them that man hath free-will and that for his meritorious works he receiveth through the assistance of Gods grace the blisse of euerlasting happinesse Now would I faine know whether of both haue the true Religion they that hold all these above said points with the Primitive Church or they that doe most vehemently contradict and gaine-say them They that doe not disagree with that holy Church in any point of Religion or they that agree with it but in very few and disagree in almost all VVill you say that these Fathers maintained these opinions contrary to the word of God why you know that they were the pillars of Christianitie the champions of Christ his Church and of the true Catholike Religion which they most learnedly defended against diverse heresies and therefore spent all their time in a most serious studie of the holy Scripture Or will you say that although they knew the Scriptures to repugne yet they brought in the aforesaid opinions by malice and corrupt intentions VVhy your selves cannot deny but that they lived most holy and vertuous lives free from all malitious corrupting or perverting of Gods holy word and by their holy lives are now made worthy to raigne with God in his glory In so much as their admirable learning may sufficiently crosse out all suspition of ignorant error and their innocent sanctitie freeeth us from all mistrust of malitious corruption Now would I willingly see what reasonable answer may be made to this For the Protestants graunt that the Church of Rome for 400 or 500 yeares held the true Religion of Christ yet do they exclaime against the abovesaid Articles which the same Church did maintaine and uphold as may bee shewen by the expresse testimonies of the Fathers of the same Church and shall be largely laid down if any learned Protestant will deny it Yea which is more for the confirmation of all the aboue mentioned points of our Religion wee will produce good and certaine grounds out of the sacred Scriptures if the Fathers authority will not suffice And we do desire any Protestant to alleage any one Text out of the said Scripture which condemneth any of the aboue written points which wee hold for certaine they shall never be able to doe For indeed they are neyther more learned more pious nor more holy then the blessed Doctors and Martyrs of that first Church of Rome which they allow and esteeme of so much and by which we most willingly will be tryed in any point which is in controversie betwixt the Protestants and the Catholicks VVhich wee desire may be done with christian charity and sincerity to the glory of God and instruction of them that are astray W. B. AN ANSVVER TO THE FORMER CHALLENGE TO uphold the Religion which at this day is maintained in the Church of Rome and to discredit the truth which we professe three things are here urged by one who hath vndertaken to make good the Papists cause against all gainesayers The first concerneth the originall of the errors wherwith that part standeth charged the Author and time whereof he requireth us to shew The other two respect the testimonie both of the Primitive Church of the sacred Scriptures which in the points wherein we varie if this man may be believed maketh wholly for them and against us First then would he faine know what Bishop of Rome did first alter that Religion which wee commend in them of the first 400 yeares In what Popes dayes was the true Religion overthrowne in Rome To which I answere First that wee doe not hold that Rome was built in a day or that the great dung-hill of errors which now wee see in it was raised in an age and therefore it is a vaine demand to require from us the name of anie one Bishop of Rome by whom or under whom this Babylonish confusion was brought in Secondly that a great difference is to be put betwixt Heresies which openly oppose the foundations of our Faith and that Apostasie which the Spirit hath evidently foretold should bee brought in by such as speake lyes in hypocrisie 1. Tim. 4.1 2. The impietie of the one is so notorious that at the verie first appearance it is manifestly discerned the other is a mysterie of iniquitie as the Apostle termeth it 2. Thes. 2.7 iniquitas sed mystica id est pietatis nomine palliata so the ordinarie Glosse expoundeth the place an iniquitie indeed but mysticall that is cloked vvith the name of pietie And therefore they who kept continuall watch and ward against the one might sleepe while the seeds of the other were a sowing yea peradventure might at unawares themselves have some hand in bringing in of this Trojan horse commended thus unto them under the name of Religion and semblance of devotion Thirdly that the originall of errors is oftentimes so obscure and their breede so base that howsoever it might be easily observed by such as lived in the same age yet no wise man will mervaile if in tract of time the beginnings of manie of them should be forgotten and no register of the time of their birth found extant Wee reade that the Sadducees taught there were no Angels is any man able to declare unto us under what high Priest they first broached this error The Grecians Circassians Georgians Syrians Egyptians Habassines Muscovites and Russians dissent at this day from the Church of Rome in many particulars will you take upon you to shew in what Bishops dayes these severall differences did first arise When the point hath been well skanned it will be found that many errors have crept into their profession the time of the entrance whereof you are not able to designe and some things also are maintained by you against them which have not been delivered for Catholick doctrine in the primitive times but brought in afterwards your selves
of the holy Scripture Or will you say that although they knew the Scriptures to repugne yet they brought in the aforesaid opinions by malice and corrupt intentions Why your selves cannot deny but that they lived most holy and vertuous lives free from all malitious corrupting or perverting of Gods holy word and by their holy lives are now made worthy to raigne with God in his glory Insomuch as their admirable learning may sufficiently crosse out all suspition of ignorant errour and their innocent sanctity freeth us from all mistrust of malitious corruption But by his leave hee is a little too hastie Hee were best to bethink himselfe more advisedly of that which he hath undertaken to performe and to remember the saying of the King of Israel unto Benhadad Let not him that girdeth on his harnesse boast himselfe as he that putteth it off Hee hath taken upon him to prove that our Religon cannot be true because it disalloweth of many chiefe articles which the Saints and Fathers of that primitive Church of Rome did generally hold to be true For performance hereof it wil not be sufficient for him to shew that some of these Fathers maintained some of these opinions he must prove if hee will be as good as his word and deale any thing to the purpose that they held them generally and held them too not as opinions but tanquam de fide as appertayning to the substance of faith and religion For as Vincentius Lirinensis well observeth the auncient consent of the holy Fathers is with great care to be sought and followed by us not in every petty question belonging to the Law of God but only or at least principally in the Rule of faith But all the points propounded by our Challenger be not chiefe articles and therefore if in some of them the Fathers have held some opinions that will not beare waight in the ballance of the Sanctuary as some conceits they had herein which the Papists themselves must confesse to be erroneous their defects in that kinde doe abate nothing of that reverend estimation which we have them in for their great paines taken in the defence of the true Catholick Religion and the serious studie of the holy Scripture Neither doe I thinke that he who thus commendeth them for the pillers of Christianitie and the champions of Christs Church will therefore hold himselfe tyed to stand unto every thing that they have said sure he will not if he follow the steppes of the great ones of his owne Societie For what doth hee thinke of Iustin Martyr Irenaeus and Epiphanius Doth he not account them among those pillers and champions hee speaketh of Yet saith Cardinall Bellarmine I doe not see how we may defend their opinion from error When others object that they have two or three hundred testimonies of the Doctors to prove that the Virgin Mary was conceived in sinne Salmeron the Iesuite steps forth and answereth them first out of the doctrine of Augustine and Thomas that the argument drawne from authoritie is weake then out of the word of God Exod. 23. In judicio plurimorum non acquiesces sententiae ut á vero devies In judgement thou shalt not be ledde with the sentence of the most to decline from the truth And lastly telleth them that when the Donatists gloried in the multitude of authors S. Augustin did answer them that it was a signe their cause was destitute of the strength of truth which was onely supported by the authority of many who were subject to error And when his Adversaries presse him not onely with the multitude but also with the antiquitie of the Doctors alledged unto which more honour alwayes hath beene given then unto novelties he answereth that indeed every age hath alwayes attributed much unto antiquity and every old man as the Poët saith is a commender of the time past but this saith he vvee averre that the yonger the Doctors are the more sharpe-sighted they be And therefore for his part he yeeldeth rather to the judgement of the yonger Doctors of Paris among whom none is held worthy of the title of a Master in Divinitie who hath not first bound himselfe with a religious oath to defend and maintaine the priviledge of the B. Virgin Only he forgot to tell how they which take that oath might dispense with another oath which the Pope requireth them to take that they will never understand and interprete the holy Scripture but according to the uniforme consent of the Fathers Pererius in his disputations upon the Epistle to the Romans confesseth that the Greeke Fathers and not a few of the Latine Doctors too have delivered in their writings that the cause of the predestination of men unto everlasting life is the foreknowledge which God had from eternitie either of the good workes which they were to doe by cooperating with his grace or of the faith wherby they were to beleeve the word of God to obey his calling And yet he for his part notwithstanding thinketh that this is contrary to the holy Scripture but especially to the doctrine of S. Paul If our Questionist had beene by him hee would have pluckt his fellow by the sleeve and taken him up in this maner Will you say that these Fathers maintained this opinion contrary to the word of God Why you know that they were the pillers of Christianity the Champions of Christ his Church and of the true Catholick religion which they most learnedly defended against diverse heresies and therefore spent all their time in a most serious studie of the holy Scripture He would also perhaps further challenge him as he doth us Will you say that although they knew the Scriptures to repugne yet they brought in the aforesaid opinion by malice corrupt intentions For sure hee might have asked this wise question of any of his owne fellowes as well as of us who doe allow and esteeme so much of these blessed Doctors and Martyrs of the ancient Church as he himselfe in the end of his Challenge doth acknowledge which verily we should have little reason to doe if wee did imagine that they brought in opinions which they knew to be repugnant to the Scriptures for any malice or corrupt intentions Indeed men they were compassed with the common infirmities of our nature and therefore subject unto error but godly men and therefore free from all malicious error Howsoever then we yeeld unto you that their innocent sanctitie freeth us from all mistrust of malitious corruption yet you must pardon us if wee make question whether their admirable learning may sufficiently crosse out all suspicion of error which may arise either of affection or want of due consideration or such ignorance as the very best are subject unto in this life For it is not admirable learning that is sufficient to crosse out that suspicion but such an immediate guidance of the holy Ghost as the Prophets and Apostles were
led by who were the penners of the Canocicall Scripture But this is your old wont to blinde the eyes of the simple with setting forth the sanctitie and the learning of the Fathers much after the maner of your grandfather Pelagius who in the third of his bookes which hee writ in defence of Free-will thought he had struck all dead by his commending of S. Ambrose Blessed Ambrose the Bishop saith he in whose bookes the Romane faith doth especially appeare who like a beautifull flowre shined among the Latin writers whose faith and most pure understanding in the Scriptures the enemy himselfe durst not reprehend Vnto whom S. Augustine Behold with what and how great prayses he extolleth a man though holy and learned yet not to be compared unto the authoritie of the Canonicall Scripture And therefore advance the learning and holinesse of these worthy men as much as you list other answer you are not like to have from us then that which the same S. Augustine maketh unto S. Hierome This reverence and honour have I learned to give to those bookes of Scripture only which now are called Canonical that I most firmely beleeve none of their authors could any whit erre in writing But others I so reade that with how great sanctitie and learning soever they doe excell I therefore thinke not any thing to be true because they so thought it but because they were able to perswade mee either by those Canonicall authors or by some probable reason that it did not swarve from truth Yet even to this field also doe our challengers provoke us and if the Fathers authority will not suffice they offer to produce good and certaine grounds out of the sacred Scriptures for confirmation of all the points of their religion which they have mentioned yea further they challenge any Protestant to alledge any one text out of the said Scripture which condemneth any of the above written points At which boldnesse of theirs wee should much wonder but that wee consider that Bankrupts commonly doe then most brag of their ability when their estate is at the lowest perhaps also that Ignorance might be it that did beget in them this Boldnesse For if they had been pleased to take the advice of their learned Counsell their Canonists would have told them touching Confession which is one of their points that it were better to hold that it was ordained by a certaine tradition of the universall Church then by the authority of the New or Old Testament Melchior Canus could have put them in minde that it is no where expressed in Scripture that Christ descended into Hell to deliver the soules of Adam and the rest of the Fathers which were detayned there And Dominicus Bannes that the holy Scriptures teach neither expressé nor yet impressé involuté that prayers are to be made unto Saints or that their Images are to be worshipped Or if the testimony of a lesuite will more prevayle with them that Images should be vvorshipped Saints prayed unto Auricular Confession frequented Sacrifices celebrated both for the quicke and the dead and other things of this kind Fr. Coster would have to be reckoned among divine Traditions which be not laid downe in the Scriptures Howsoever yet the matter standeth we have no reason but willingly to accept of their challenge and to require them to bring forth those good and certaine grounds out of the sacred Scriptures for confirmation of all the articles by them propounded as also to let them see whether we be able to alledge any Text of Scripture which condemneth any of those points Although I must confesse it will be a hard matter to make them see any thing which before hand have resolved to close their eyes having their mindes so preoccupied with prejudice that they professe before ever we begin they hold for certaine that wee shall never be able to produce any such Text. And why thinke you because forsooth we are neither more learned more pious nor more holy then the blessed Doctors and Martyrs of that first Church of Rome As who should say we yeelded at the first word that all those blessed Doctors and Martyrs expounded the Scriptures every where to our disadvantage or were so well perswaded of the tendernesse of a Iesuites conscience that because he hath taken an oath never to interpret the Scripture but according to the uniforme consent of the Fathers he could not therefore have the forehead to say I doe not deny that I have no author of this interpretation yet doe I so much the rather approve it then that other of Augustines though the most probable of all the rest because it is more contrary to the sense of the Calvinists which to mee is a great argument of probabilitie Or as if lastly a man might not dissent from the ancient Doctors so much as in an exposition of a Text of Scripture but hee must presently make himselfe more learned more pious and more holy then they were Yet their great Tostatus might have taught them that this argument holdeth not Such a one knoweth some conclusion that Augustine did not know therefore he is wiser then Augustine Because as a certaine skilfull Physician said the men of our time being compared vvith the ancient are like unto a little man set upon a Giants neck compared with the Giant himselfe For as that little man placed there seeth whatsoever the Giant seeth and somewhat more and yet if he be taken downe from the Giants neck would see little or nothing in comparison of the Giant even so we being setled upon the wits and workes of the ancient it were not to be wondred nay it should be very agreeable unto reason that we should see whatsoever they saw and somewhat more Though yet saith he wee doe not professe so much And even to the same effect speaketh Friar Stella that though it be farre from him to condemne the common exposition given by the ancient holy Doctors yet he knoweth full well that Pygmeis being put upon Gyants shoulders doe see further then the Gyants themselves Salmeron addeth that by the increase of time divine mysteries have beene made knowen which before were hid from many so that to know them now is to be attributed unto the benefite of the time not that we are better then our Fathers were Bishop Fisher that it cannot be obscure unto any that many things as well in the Gospels as in the rest of the Scriptures are now more exquisitely discussed by latter wits and more clearely understood then they have beene heretofore Either by reason that the yce was not as yet broken unto the ancient neither did their age suffice to weigh exactly that vvhole sea of the Scriptures or because in this most large field of the Scriptures even after the most diligent reapers some eares will remaine to be gathered as yet untouched Hereupon Cardinall Caietan in the beginning of
his Commentaries upon Moses adviseth his Reader not to loath the new sense of the holy Scripture for this that it dissenteth from the ancient Doctors but to search more exactly the text and context of the Scripture and if he find it agree to praise God that hath not tyed the exposition of the Scriptures to the senses of the ancient Doctors But leaving comparisons which you know are odious the envie whereof notwithstanding your owne Doctors and Masters you see helpe us to beare off and teach us how to decline I now come to the examination of the particular points by you propounded It should indeed be your part by right to be the Assailant who first did make the Challenge and I who sustaine the person of the Defendant might here wel stay accepting only your challenge expecting your encounter Yet do not I meane at this time to answer your Bill of Challenge as Bills are usually answered in the Chancerie with saving all advantages to the Defendant I am content in this also to abbridge my selfe of the libertie w ch I might lawfully take make a further demōstration of my forwardnes in undertaking the maintenāce of so good a cause by giving the first onset my selfe OF TRADITIONS TO begin therefore with Traditions which is your forlorne Hope that in the first place we are to set upon this must I needes tell you before we begin that you much mistake the matter if you thinke that Traditions of all sorts promiscuously are struck at by our Religion We willingly acknowledge that the word of God which by some of the Apostles was set downe in writing was both by themselves and others of their fellow-labourers delivered by word of mouth and that the Church in succeeding ages was bound not only to preserve those sacred writings committed to her trust but also to deliver unto her children vivâ voce the forme of wholsome words contayned therein Traditions therefore of this nature come not within the compasse of our controversie the question being betwixt us de ipsâ doctrinâ traditâ not de tradendi modo touching the substance of the doctrine delivered not of the maner of delivering it Againe it must be remembred that here wee speake of doctrine delivered as the word of God that is of points of religion revealed unto the Prophets and Apostles for the perpetuall information of Gods people not of rites and ceremonies and other ordinances which are left to the disposition of the Church and consequently be not of divine but of positive and humane right Traditions therefore of this kinde likewise are not properly brought within the circuit of this question But that Traditions of men should be obtruded unto us for articles of Religion and admitted for parts of Gods worship or that any Traditions should be accepted for parcels of Gods word beside the holy Scriptures and such doctrines as are either expressely therein contayned or by sound inference may be deduced from thence I thinke wee have reason to gainsay As long as for the first wee have this direct sentence from God himselfe Matth. 15. In vaine doe they worship me teaching for doctrines the Commandements of men And for the second the expresse warrant of the Apostle 2. Tim. 3. testifying of the holy Scriptures not onely that they are able to make us wise unto salvation which they should not be able to doe if they did not containe all things necessary to salvation but also that by them the man of God that is the minister of Gods word unto whom it appertaineth to declare all the counsell of God may be perfectly instructed to every good worke which could not be if the Scriptures did not containe all the counsell of God which was fit for him to learne or if there were any other word of God which he were bound to teach that should not be contained within the limits of the Booke of God Now whether herein we disagree from the doctrine generally received by the Fathers we referre our selves to their owne sayings For Rituall Traditions unwritten and for doctrinall Traditions written indeed but preserved also by the continual preaching of the Pastors of the Church successively wee find no man a more earnest advocate then Tertullian Yet hee having to deale with Hermogenes the hereticke in a question concerning the faith whether all things at the beginning were made of nothing presseth him in this manner with the argument ab authoritate negativé for avoyding whereof the Papists are driven to flie for succour to their unwritten verities Whether all things vvere made of any subject matter I have as yet read no where Let those of Hermogenes his shop shew that it is written If it be not written let them feare that Woe which is allotted to such as adde or take away In the two Testaments saith Origen every word that appertayneth to God may be required and discussed and all knowledge of things out of them may be understood But if any thing doe remaine which the holy Scripture doth not determine no other third Scripture ought to be received for to authorize any knowledge but that which remaineth we must commit to the fire that is we must reserve it to God For in this present world God would not have us to know all things Hippolytus the Martyr in his Homily against the Heresie of Noëtus There is one God whom wee doe not otherwise acknowledge brethren but out of the holy Scriptures For as he that would professe the wisedome of this world cannot otherwise attaine hereunto unlesse hee reade the doctrine of the Philosophers so whosoever of us will exercise pietie toward God cannot learne this elsewhere but out of the holy Scriptures Whatsoever therefore the holy Scriptures doe preach that let us know and whatsoever they teach that let us understand Athanasius in his Oration against the Gentiles toward the beginning The holy Scriptures given by inspiration of God are of themselves sufficient to the discoverie of truth S. Ambrose The things which vve finde not in the Scriptures how can vve use them And againe I reade that he is the first I reade that hee is not the second they who say he is the second let them shew it by reading It is well saith S. Hilary that thou art content vvith those things vvhich be written And in another place he commendeth Constantius the Emperour for desiring the faith to be ordered onely according to those things that be vvritten S. Basil Beleeve those things vvhich are written the things which are not written seeke not It is a manifest falling from the faith and an argument of arrogancy either to reject any point of those things that are written or to bring in any of those things that are not written He teacheth further that every word and action ought to be confirmed by the testimony of the holy Scripture for confirmation of the faith of the
this service that it is usually put for the whole and the publick place of Gods worship hath from hence given it the denomination of the house of prayer Furthermore hee that heareth our prayers must be able to search the secrets of our hearts and discerne the inward disposition of our soules For the pouring out of good words and the offering up of externall sighes and teares are but the carkase only of a true prayer the life thereof consisteth in the pouring out of the very soule it selfe and the sending up of those secret groanes of the spirit which cannot be uttered But he that searcheth the hearts and onely he knoweth vvhat is the minde of the spirit he heareth in heaven his dwelling place and giveth to every man according to his wayes whose heart he knoweth for he even he ONELY knoweth the hearts of all the children of men as Salomon teacheth us in the praier which he made at the dedication of the Temple wherunto we may add that golden sentence of his father David for a conclusion O thou that hearest prayer unto thee shall all flesh come If it be further here obâ—ected by us that we finde neyther precept nor example of any of the Fathers of the old Testament whereby this kinde of pâ—aying to the soules of the Saints departed may be warranted Cardinall Bellarmine will give us a reason for it for therefore saith he the spirits of the Patriarches and the Prophets before the comming of Christ were neyther so worshipped nor invocated as we doe now worship and invocate the Apostles and Martyrs because that they were detayned as yet shut up in the prisons of Hell But if this reason of his be grounded upon a false foundation as we have alreadie shewed it to be and the contrary supposition be most true that the spirits of the Patriarchs and Prophets were not thus shut up in the prisons of Hell then have we foure thousand yeares prescription left unto us to oppose against this innovation We go further yet and urge against them that in the New Testament it selfe we can descry no footsteps of this new kinde of Invocation more then we did in the Scriptures of the old Testament For this Salmeron doth tell us that the Scriptures vvhich were made and published in the primitive Church ought to found and explaine Christ who by the tacite suggestion of the Spirit did bring the Saints with him and that it would have beene a hard matter to enjoyne this to the Iewes and to the Gentiles an occasion would be given thereby to thinke that many Gods were put upon them in steed of the multitude of the Gods whom they had forsaken So this new worship you see fetcheth his originall neyther from the Scriptures of the Old nor of the New Testament but from I know not what tacite suggestion which smelt so strongly of Idolatry that at first it was not safe to acquaint eyther the Iewes or the Gentiles therewith But if any such sweet tradition as this were at first delivered unto the Church by Christ and his Apostles we demand further how it should come to passe that for the space of 360. yeares together after the birth of our Saviour we can finde mention no where of any such thing For howsoever our Challenger giveth it out that prayer to Saints was of great account amongst the Fathers of the primitive Church for the first 400. years after Christ yet for nine parts of that time I dare be bold to say that he is not able to produce as much as one true testimonie out of any Father whereby it may appeare that any account at all was made of it and for the tithe too he shall finde perhaps before we have done that he is not like to carry it away so cleerly as he weeneth Whether those blessed spirits pray for us is not the question here but whether we are to pray unto them That God onely is to be prayed unto is the doctrine that was once delivered unto the Saints for which we so earnestly contend the Saints praying for us doth no way crosse this for to whom should the Saints pray but to the King of Saints their being prayed unto is the onely stumbling block that lyeth in this way And therefore in those first times the former of these was admitted by some as a matter of probabilitie but the latter no way yeelded unto as being derogatorie to the priviledge of the Deitie Origen may be a witnesse of both who touching the former writeth in this sort I doe thinke thus that all those fathers who are departed this life before us doe fight with us and assist us with their prayers for so have I heard one of the elder Masters saying and in another place Moreover if the Saints that have left the body and be with Christ doe any thing and labour for us in like maner as the Angels do vvho are imployed in the ministery of our salvation let this also remaine among the hidden things of God and the mysteries that are not to be committed unto writing But because he thought that the Angels and Saints prayed for us did he therefore hold it needfull that we should direct our prayers unto them Heare I pray you his owne answer in his eighth booke against Celsus the philosopher We must endevour to please God alone who is above all things and labour to have him propitious unto us procuring his good will with godlinesse and all kinde of vertue And if Celsus will yet have us to procure the good will of any others after him that is God over all let him consider that as when the body is moved the motion of the shadow thereof doth follow it so in like maner having God favourable unto us who is over all it followeth that we shall have all his friends both Angels and soules and spirits loving unto us For they have a fellow-feeling with them that are thought worthy to finde favour from God Neyther are they only favourable unto such as be thus worthy but they worke with them also that are willing to doe service unto him who is God over all are friendly to them and pray with them and intreate with them So as wee may be bold to say that when men which with resolution propose unto them selves the best things doe pray unto God many thousands of the sacred powers pray together vvith them UNSPOKEN to Celsus had said of the Angels that they belong to God and in that respect we are to put our trust in them and make oblations to them according to the lawes and pray unto them that they may be favourable to us To this Origen answereth in this maner Away with Celsus his counsell saying that we must pray to Angels and let us not so much as afford any little audience to it For we must pray to him alone who is God over all