and holiness and by our own good conversation 1 Pet. 2.15 put to silence the scandals of malicious the ignorance of foolish men that God wil give repentance free pardon in Christ to all our Adversaries who complain of us as contentious because though after long sufferings we seeke in a just and lawfull way to recover our due and just Rights which they unjustly detaine from us desiring if it be the will of God that they may obtaine salvation in the Lord Jesus and be delivered from wrath to come and that one day they may enjoy a happy and peaceable communion with us in glory and to conclude daily powring out my soule to God That the Lord the great Protector of Sion will be pleased to preserve his Highness and Honourable Councell and you my Honourable Lords and the rest of the Honourable Judges Justices Magistrates and other Worthies who are Actors for Piety and Peace to Gods glory and the benefit of these Nations together with this whole Common wealth in Truth Unity and Peace long to continue Most humbly subscribing my selfe Your Honours daily Oratour at the Throne of Grace Immanuel Bourne Pastor of the Church in Ashover London Feb. 26. 1655. A Defence of the Scriptures and of the Holy Spirit of God speaking in them as the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith c. In a Disputation at Chesterfield in the County of Darby Jan. 3. 1654. FIrst when the Ministers came to the Church or Meeting House-yard Iames Nayler was there with his company but seemed unwilling to goe into the Church or Church-House yet at last went into the lower end and stood there But when Mr Billingsley Minister of Chesterfield began with praier to God for a blessing upon the meeting Nayler and his fellowes went forth againe pretending some plot might be against them But after praier assurance given there was none they came in againe Secondly Mr John Billingsley began to read the Questions But after Nayler read them in the Paper sent to him as I take it and then began to read his Answer in writing and when he had read his Answer to the first Question it was desired that that Question and his Answer to that might be first Argued and so the rest afterwards in order Question 1 The first Question was Whether the Spirit of God speaking in the Scriptures bee the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith Mr Bourne shewed Nayler the Bible and asked him if he would owne that as Gods word he answered part of it or to that effect First For the state of the Question By the Spirit was meant the Spirit of God 1 Iohn 5.7 the third Person in Trinity one with the Father and the Sonne Secondly by the Scriptures the Canonicall books of the Old and New Testament Thirdly By the Spirit of God speaking in the Scriptures that voice or speaking forth of Gods Spirit recorded in Scripture which is there now to be found so whether the holy Scriptures or Spirit in them be judg This state was not so fully opened by reason of disturbance even in the entrance Nayler endeavouring to avoid this Question Naylers Answer Nayler in his Answer owned the Spirit that did speake in the holy men who gave forth the holy Scriptures to be Judge and said that Spirit was Judge before the Letter was written and all Controversies were judged by that Spirit but hee did not owne that Spirit that doth now speak in the Scriptures Hee said hee granted the Spirit was Judge and would have avoided the Question Mr Bournes Reply But Mr Bourne pressed to go on with the Question and affirmed it was one thing to say the Spirit that did speake in the holy men that gave out the Scriptures was Judge and another to say the Spirit of God speaking in the Scriptures was Judge or that the holy Scripture was Judge Therefore pressed to go on with the Question and began as I remember with this Reason Mr Bourns 1 Argument Whatsoever was and is the speaking forth of the Holy Ghost himselfe that was and is the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith but the holy Scriptures are the speaking forth of the holy Spirit himselfe therefore they are the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith The first proposition was not denied and the second was proved Acts 1.16 the Scripture which the holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake concerning Judas Here it is evident what Scriptures David writ or spake by writing that the Holy Ghost spake Therefore the holy Scripture is the speaking forth of the Holy Ghost and so judge of Controversies The same again witnessed by the Spirit Acts 28.25 wel spake the Holy Ghost by the mouth of Isaias the Prophet saying c. Here you see the Holy Ghost is witnessed by the Apostle Paul to speak by the mouth of Isaias and that Scripture which Isaiah writ was the speaking forth of the Holy Ghost and so the supreme Judge of Controversies c. Naylers Answer Nayler gave no direct answer but he wrangled and said he did owne the Spirit to be Judge but not the written word or to that effect and that the Spirit did speak not in the dead but in the living which was as I did understand him not in the dead letter of the Scripture but in living men and vapoured as if he had said much but yet would have avoided the Question as needlesse to be further disputed on since he did yield the Spirit to be Judge although he denyed that the Spirit speaking in Scripture was the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith But Mr Bourn went on to press another Argument Mr Bourns 2 Argument Whatsoever Christ himselfe did appeale unto as to a chiefe Judge and send his hearers unto as to a chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith that is and ought to be esteem'd the chief Judge of Controversies of Faith But Christ himselfe appealed to the Scriptures and sent his hearers to the Scriptures as to the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith therefore the holy Scriptures are the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith The first not denyed the second witnessed by the Spirit in John 5.39 in that great controversie of Faith whether Christ were the Sonne of God or equall with God Christ appeales to the Scriptures Search the Scriptures for in them you thinke to have eternall life and they are they that testifie of me therefore the Scriptures are the chiefe Judge Naylers Answer Nayler did not give any answer to satisfie the Argument but said still the Spirit was the Judge not the written word and cried out liar liar hold thy peace the Spirit is Judge not the written word Mr Bourne bad him yield the Question since Christ himselfe appealed to the Scriptures But he cried out and one of his fellow Quakers away lyar the Spirit is Judge Mr Bourn replied The Spirit is Judge but not the Spirit speaking in any man but the Spirit speaking in the Scriptures and pressed
a third Argument Mr Bourns 3 Argument Whatsoever is the very word of God himselfe that is and ought to be the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith But the holy Scriptures are the very word of God himselfe and therefore they are the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith The first not denied the second proved John 10.34 35 Jesus said is it not written in your Law I have said ye are Gods If he called them gods to whom the word of God came and the Scriptures cannot be broken c. Here our Saviour calleth the Scriptures the word of God therefore the holy Scripture is the word of God And the like againe Marke 7.12 13. Ye make the word of God of none effect by your traditions Christ plainly calleth the Scriptures the written Law of God the word of God therefore the holy Scriptures are the very word of God himselfe and so the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith Naylers Answer Nayler cavilled still and cried out it is false it is false the word is not the Judge and sit downe liar But Mr Bourne pressed him to answer And Nayler said the word was God but the Scripture was the letter and that was not Judge Mr Billingsleys 1 Argument Mr Billingsley pressed an Argument to prove that the written word of which the Question is made is not God That which is the word of Christ who is God that is not Christ nor God But the holy Scriptures and word preached and written by the Apostles is the word of Christ Therefore the holy Scripture is not Christ nor God First that Christ is God that is evident Rom. 9.5 of whom concerning the flesh Christ came who is God over all blessed for ever Therefore by this testimony it is evident Christ is God Secondly that the holy Scriptures and word preached by the Apostles is the word of Christ that is witnessed Col. 3.16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdome The Apostle doth not say let the word Christ dwell in you but let the word of Christ Therefore the word of Christ is not Christ nor God so neither the holy Scriptures which are the word of Christ and of the spirit of Christ which holy men spake and writ as they were moved by the Holy Ghost Naylers Answer Nayler instead of a better Answer still quarrelled and cried out liar liar the word is God and God and his word are all one but the letter was in time Mr Bourns Reply To this Mr Bourne replyed that was not so for although God and his written word were one in respect of that agreement of truth was in the written word and in God yet that word of God and God were not all one essentially as the naturall word or Son of God was all one and the same Essence or Being with God Naylers Answer To this Nayler cried out away with thy dark word Iohn â— 12 14. I do not owne that word essentially and so rejected the distinction of Gods written word and essentiall word Mr Bourns Reply Mr Bourne replied that the written word of God was not of the same Being with God Naylers Answer Nayler and one of his fellow Quakers by him cried out liar liar stop thy mouth for shame stop thy mouth God and his word are all one Mr Bournes Argument Mr Bourne bad Nayler hearken to an Argument to prove it by Scripture and told Nayler he was the brazen fac'd foule mouth'd fellow he had heard when his owne mouth was stopped that he could not answer an Argument he still cried out liar liar stop thy mouth stop thy mouth Mr Bourns Argument And Mr Bourne pressed this Argument No word which was written in time part by God himselfe and part by Moses and other holy men of God was or is all one with God essentially or of the same essence or being with God but the holy Scriptures were written part by God himselfe in time and part by Moses and other holy men of God Therefore that word of God was not of one or of the same Essence and Being with God The first Proposition is evident of it selfe The second is witnessed Exod. 31.18 where God gave unto Moses when he had made an end of communing with him two Tables of stone written with the finger or by the power of God And Exod. 34.27 God commanded Moses to write all the words of the Covenant for after the tenour of these words I have made a Covenant with thee and with Israel And this was written two thousand yeare after the Creation of the world which God made therefore God and that written word was not all one or of the same Essence and Being with God and so not the rest of the holy Scriptures which was written in after times Naylers Answer But Nayler with a loud voice still cried out liar liar is not God and his word all one and bad the people beare witnesse hee saith God and his word are not all one Mr Bourn For Reply We distinguish there is a unity of agreement so God and his written word are all one and a unity of Essence or Being so God and his written word the Scripture are not all one Mr Gardiners Argument Mr Gardiner Minister of Eckinton being present when he saw him so audaciously impudent called to Nayler to hearken to an Argument to the contrary which was to this effect Whatsoever is all one with God is eternall but the holy Scripture or written word is not eternall therefore it is not all one with God Naylers Answer The Quaker Nayler presently cried out in a scornfull manner away liar away stop thy mouth the word is eternall and God is eternall And one of his fellow Quakers that stood by Nayler called Mr Gardiner lyar lyar both with a loud voice stop thy mouth thou art a liar thou art a liar But let any indifferent man but read and consider the Argument and see if the Quaker be not proved the liar and justly deserved that shame himselfe which he so unjustly cast upon Mr Gardiner and the other Ministers Then Mr Godfrey Watkinson of Brampton an understanding Gentleman not a Minister being present Mr Godfrey Watkinson of Brampton Moor neer Chesterfield called to Nayler and told him he had lost the Question and he himselfe was the liar for even now he said the letter or written word was in time and so not eternall and now he saith the word is eternall and God and his word is all one when as the Question and Aâ—gument is about the written word which is not eternall and therfore he was the lyar lost the Question or words to this effect for I cannot remember every particular but I endeavour to keep the sence and words as well as I can remember Naylers Answer But Nayler kept on his loud mouthed pace and gave Mr Watkinson some unfit disrespective speeches and said he owned the Spirit speaking in holy men to bee the Judge but would
Scriptures I say to the satisfaction of a man or womans owne conscience in what they are to believe yea those to whom God hath given a more excellent measure of understanding in the mystery of Christ revealed in the Scriptures these may in some measure judge or be inferiour Judges of spirituall things and of private mens opinions in the Controversies of Faith For the Spirit of the Prophets 1 Cor. 14.32 is subject to the Prophets but all private spirits of men in the world yea the Pope himselfe and all the Quakers they are and must bee subject one day to the voice of Gods Spirit speaking in the holy Scriptures and that word of Christ recorded in holy Scriptures shall judge them all at the last day witnesse our Saviour himselfe John 12.48 The Quaker abuseth other places of holy Scripture But the Answers I have given may satisfie any understanding Reader I shal name only one more from Nayler and his fellow Quakers which seems to conclude against the Scriptures excellency and authority of being chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith calling the holy Scriptures a dead letter and the letter that killeth all to discountenance the credit of the Scriptures to exalt their owne private spirit The place of Scripture they pervert is that of the Apostle 2 Cor. 3.6 Who hath made us able Ministers of the New Testament not of the letter but of the Spirit for the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life I might answer at large shew how the letter is taken in severall places of Scripture and evidence the falshood of Naylers application of this place also but in briefe The letter is taken 1. Propperly for the first Elements or beginnings of learning for the letters in severall languages from which by spelling and putting together are made syllables and words and sentences in and by which the mind of God and men is held forth to our understanding as in those letters of Greek and Latine and Hebrew which were written over Christ upon his Crosse Luke 23.38 And these letters may be called dead letters because of themselves they signifie nothing to declare the mind of the writer except they be joined and put together inâ— syllables words and sentences Againe Improperly and more generally letters are taken severall waies in Scripture for Epistles private or publick 2 Cor. 3.6 c. And in that place alledged The letter killeth The Apostle doth speak of the Law which he opposeth to the Gospell which is the ministration of the Spirit as will appear plainly if the Chapter be truly looked into yea the Law it selfe doth not properly kill of it selfe but is said to kill when men break it and so are become subject to death by sinning against it Rom. 7.12 13. Rom. 6.27 Psal 119.50 for the wages of sinne is death otherwise the Law and word of God doth quicken as David found by experience Psal 119. And the written words of God are lively oracles Acts 7.38 Heb. 4.12 2 Tim. 3.16 17 as the blessed Martyr Stephen witnessed yea mighty in operation and able to make us wise to salvation and therefore most fit to be the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith whatsoever the deluding Quakers pretend to the contrary Thus I have done with the first Question I come now to the second Question Mr Bourns Argument The second Question Whether the private Spirit in the Pope or in any Quaker be the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith This was denyed and Mr Bourne proved the negative by this Argument No Spirit which is subject to tryall it selfe can be the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith but the private Spirit in the Pope or in any Quaker is subject to tryall it self therefore the private Spirit in the Pope or in any Quaker cannot be the chiefe Judge of any Controversies of Faith The first proposition was not denied and the second is witnessed 1 John 4. Beloved believe not every spirit but try the spirits whether they be of God for many false Prophets are gone out into the world And here you may see the Evangelist giveth a generall rule for Christians to try the spirit all spirits in any man yea all that pretend to the Spirit of God as the Pope and the Quakers doe therefore their spirits are to be tried and so are not fit to be chiefe Judges of Controversies of Faith Naylers Answer James Nailer wrangled about the Spirit but gave no satisfying answer to the Argument but said the Spirit was not a private spirit if he was but in one against a hundred and said the Spirit was in them and he was Judge in them as if the Spirit in the Quaker were a publick infallible Spirit and so fit to be the chief Judge of Controversies of Faith which cannot be for if the Spirit of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets 1 Cor. 14.32 then much more the Spirit in the Pope or in any Quaker subject to tryall and therefore they cannot bee the chiefe Judges of Controversiies of Faith Mr Bourns 2 Argument Then Mr Bourne pressed a second Argument No Spirit which is a Spirit of Errour lying and false accusation is or can be a chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith But the Spirit in the Quaker and in James Nayler in particular is a Spirit of Errour lying and false accusation therefore that Spirit in them cannot be a chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith The first proposition is cleare because a chiefe Judge must and ought to have in him a Spirit not of errour lying and false accusation but a Spirit of truth and righteousnesse that he may bee directed to give true judgement and not to wrest or give wrong sentence for this is contrary to the Law of God Exod 23.6 7. Thou shalt not wrest the judgement of the poor in his cause and keep the farre from a false matter c. Therefore a Spirit of lying and Errour and false accusation is not fit to be a chiefe Judge of Controversies especially not of Controversies of Faith And for the second proposition that the Spirit in the Quaker and in James Nayler in particular is a Spirit of Errour lying and false accusation Mr Bourne proved it by these Arguments Mr Bournes Argument Whatsoever Spirit did or doth affirme and falsely accuse the Ministers of Christ in England that they erre and are false Teachers because they say the books of Matthew Marke Luke and John are the Gospell that is a Spirit of Errour lying and false accusation But the Spirit that is in James Nayler and some of his fellow Quakers did or doth accuse the Ministers of Christ in England that they erre and are false Teachers because they affirme the books of Matthew Marke Luke and John to be the Gospell therefore the Spirit in the Quakers and in James Nayler in particular is a Spirit of Errour lying and false accusation and so not fit to be chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith To
Nayler answered that he himselfe was as holy just and good as God himselfe And this Mr Baldwâ—nson did offer to depose to Colonell Briggs who is a man fearing God and of eminent trust in the Common-wealth and what is this but presumptuous blasphemy both in Fox and Nayler so proudly to boast of their owne perfection and that not by the imputed righteousness of Christ for that they deny but by their own inherent holiness which they pretend to be Christ within them and yet so basely to manifest themselves notorious lyars The briefe volation of the irreligion of the Northern Quakâ—rs wherein their h … d principles and practises doctrines and manners are discovered read page 24 25. As in that Pamphlet called Saul's Errand to Damascus in which there are a hundred untruths as may be proved by a hundred witnesses testified in that booke called A Briefe Relation of the irreligion of the Northern Quakers page 24. Many of them saith that Author will be as ready to say and unsay any thing as if lying were a vertue and they make no conscience saith he of raising false reports against those especially who doe any way oppose them and he goeth on further Thus wholly by lies lying doctrines lying wonders lying reports they endeavour to build up the Kingdome of the Father of lyes amongst us Thus farre and further that reverend Author I might add many more of their errours lies and abominable blasphemies But these are sufficient to witnesse the Spirit in James Nayler and divers of his fellow Quakers to be a Spirit of Errour and Blasphemy and therefore not fit to be chiefe Judges of Controversies of Faith Other their Errours and Blasphemies are so abominable that I hold them fitter to be buried in silence then to rake them up out of the Devils dung-hill to be an odious noisom stinke and offence to the people of God Now for Naylers answer and his crosse interrogatories upon this and other Questions I have answered them fully in every particular which with my Reply to his Quaeries and discoveries of many of his abominable lies increased in my written hand prepared for the Presse to above threescore sheets of paper which I have ready by me the which I was resolved by Gods grace to have printed in Defence of Christ the Gospell and the faithfull Gospel-Ministers of Christ in England and their maintenance But comming to London I finde these things so sufficiently answered and truth so sully satisfied against the Quakers and their errours by so many godly and learned Divines that I conceive to add more is but to cast water into the sea and therefore I have thought good to print only these few sheets and to let the rest of my labours rest unprinted untill God shall give me a further call unto that worke I now therefore proceed to the third Question Disputed 3 Question Disputed Whether every man be bound to looke to the light within him as sufficient for his ditection to attaine salvation This we denyed The state of the Question The sence of the Question is Whether every man and woman in the world have a sufficient light within them for their direction to attaine eternall life so as he or shee needeth not to looke to the outward light of the written word of God or to the light of the Gospell revealed in the holy Scriptures or to any outward teaching by man whatsoever although it be agreeable to the Scripture of truth This in effect was the opinion of Nayler as it is of divers of his fellow Quakers witness Nayler himselfe in his answer in writing sent to us the day after the Dispute and since printed The light of Christ saith hee which hath enlightned every man that commeth into the world is ourlight and to that is every one bound to look for direction to attaine Salvation and that he affirmeth as sufficient or to that effect And the same did Nayler affirm before in his discourse with Mr Will. Cole at Kendall See the Perfect Pharisee the subscription to the Epistle and pages 17.18 Richard Tarnworth p. 51. c To whom he said that every man in the world had a light within him sufficient to guide them to salvation and this he extended to the Indians that never heard the Gospell witnesse that booke called the Perfect Pharisee written by those five Reverend Ministers nere New Castle named before And thus James Nayler and divers others of his fellow Quakers in other Pamphlets which for brevity sake I omit Mr Bournes Argument But I did prove the contrary by this Argument No man whosoever is darknesse is bound to looke to the light within him as sufficient to direct him to attaine Salvation but every naturall man is darknesse therefore no naturall man is bound to looke to the light within him as sufficient for his direction to attaine salvation and so not every man that commeth into the world The first proposition is evident because it is in vaine to look for light in darknesse And the second proposition is witnessed by the Apostle Paul Eph. 5.8 Ye were once darknesse saith he to the Ephesians but now ye are light in the Lord. In the state of nature corrupted by Adams Fall they were darknesse having their understandings darkened through the ignorance that was in them because of the blindnesse of their minds And what light then had these within them sufficient to direct them to Salvation or what sufficient light hath any naturall man in the world and therefore all are not bound to looke to the light within them as sufficient for their direction to attaine Salvation Naylers Answer All Naylers answer was it is false it is false lyar lyar all are enlightned and have a light within them sufficient to direct them to Salvation or to that effect Mr Billingsley's Argument And after some wranglings by Nayler Mr Billingsley called to Nayler to heare an Argument and gave this or to this effect None of those to whom Paul was sent to turn them from darknesse to light and from the power of Satan to God had a light within them to which they were bound to looke as sufficient to direct them to attaine Salvation But there were some Gentiles to whom Paul was sent to turn them from darknesse to light and from the power of Satan to God therefore some Gentiles had not a light within them to which they could looke as sufficient to direct them to attaine Salvation and so not every man in the world The first proposition is manifest because if those Gentiles had a light within them sufficient to direct them to attaine Salvation then what needed the Lord to have sent blessed Paul through so many dangers to turne them from darknesse to light and from the power of Satan to God And for the second the Evangelist Luke doth witnesse it Acts 26.17 18. Acts 26. Delivering thee from the Gentiles to whom I send thee to turne them from
this purpose was the Argument but shorter Naylers Answer Then Nayler was constrained to acknowledge that a naturall father might bee called father by his child and a civill master might bee called master by his servant but that it was not lawfull for any other to give or receive such honour or titles of honour as father or master or the like or to that effect Although this acknowledgement of Naylers was contrary to the Doctrine and practice even of Nayler himselfe and divers of his fellow Quakers and proselytes as the uncivill carriage of some of them towards their naturall parents and civill masters and of others towards Magistrates and Ministers doth witnesse at full Mr Gardiner Minister of Eckinton Mr Gurdiner a good Disputant as I remember seeing Nayler wrangle and endeavour to shift off from the Question began to presse Nayler with an Argument But before Mr Gardiner could speake out his Argument Naylers Reply Nayler would not heare him but he and some other of his sellow Quakers that stood by him cried out aloud lyar lyar stop thy mouth and made a clamouring noise against him to cause him to hold his peace Mr Gardiner To whom Mr Gardiner seeing Nayler's so uncivill unchristian and unreasonable behaviour Replied fie on thee thou unreasonable man thou art not fit to be reasoned with or to that purpose and so turned his backe upon him Mr Bournes Argument Then Mr Bourne called aloud to Nayler againe and bad him leave his uncivill rayling and reviling speeches and loud clamours and hearken to an Argument to prove it which was to this effect That title of honour which St Paul did give to Festus who was none of his naturall father nor civill master that it is lawfull for Christians to give now to those who are neither naturall fathers nor ordinary civill masters But read Acts 26. and you may finde that St Paul stiled Festus noble Festus which is a title of honour and high respect and therefore it is lawfull now to give honourable titles to such as are neither naturall parents nor civill masters and to be given by such as are neither naturall children nor meniall or hired servants or to this end was the Argument Naylers Answer Nayler answered those were noble Romans and deserved honour c. But now c. as if he thought now we had none so worthy to whom such honour should be given for to my best observation this was the sence of his broken speech for hee did not speake whole sentences but wrangled about giving honour and said howsoever honour might be given to naturall parents or civill masters yet how could we prove that any that professed themselves Ministers of Christ should be called master or father contrary to that of Christ Mat. 23. noted before where he said Christ did particularly forbid his Apostles and ministers to be so called Mr Bournes Reply To which Mr Bourne replied Nayler and bad him reade again that place Mat. 23.1 2. and thou shalt find that Christ did speake there to the multitude as well as to his Disciples and what in that text he did not forbid others he did not forbid them Consider the Text fully and thou maiest see it plaine if thou hast eies to see Naylers Answer Nayler according to his custome instead of other Answers cried out it is false it is false prove that any Minister of Christ should be called master or father or have any such honour given to them or to that effect Mr Maudesley Mr Maudesly Minister of Dronfield being neer to Nayler as I remember brought an Argument from that place Eccl. 12.11 The words of the wise are like goads fastened by the masters of the Assemblies And if by the Masters of the Assemblies be intended teachers of Gods people and Ministers of Christ then it is lawfull for them to be called masters because the Spirit of God in Solomon calleth them so But this is apparent that by masters he meaneth teachers therefore it is lawfull to call the ministers of Christ who are teachers of Gods people masters or to that purpose Naylers Answer But James Nayler sings still his old song liar liar no such thing is intended there and wrangled ignorantly about the sence of that place as nothing concerning ministers in the New Testament Mr Bournes Argument Then Mr Bourne bad Nayler to heare an Argument out of the New Testament from that place of the Apostle to Timothy 1 Tim. 5.17 Let the Elders that rule well be accounted worthy of double honour especially them that labour in the word and doctrine to this effect If preaching Elders that labour in the word and doctrine be worthy of double honour then the faithfull labouring ministers of Christ are worthy of honour but preaching Elders who labour in the word and doctrine are worthy of double honour witnesse the Apostle in that place 1 Tim. 5. therefore the ministers of Christ who labour in the word and doctrine are worthy of honour and so may lawfully have honour given them yea that honour which is due to them that is not only the honour of maintenance but the honour of reverence and esteem let a man esteem of us as ministers of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God 1 Cor. 4.12 Nailers Answer This was not so fully pressed then But Nayler answered and said The ministers of Christ they must bee honoured in the Lord but not be called master or father and have any outward honour And still Nayler wrangled and turned to those people neer him not answering the Argument but railed at ministers for suffering our selves to be called masters vapouring in contemptuous termes but bringing no word of proofe at all Mr Bournes Argument Mr Bourne bad Nayler leave off his vapouring or to that effect and hearken to another Scripture 1 Cor. 4.15 where St Paul did take to himselfe the name of father of the Corinthians their spirituall father though you have ten thousand instructers saith he yet yee have not many fathers for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the Gospell Now if Paul as a minister of Christ converting soules did lawfully take to himself the name of father Then the faithfull ministers of Christ who convert men and women to Christ may lawfully take to themselves the name of father but this was lawfull for blessed Paul therefore it is lawfull also for all the faithfull ministers of Christ Jesus who turne men to God to take to themselves the name of father and so to be called masters or sirs which is a title of honour and respect For what title was lawfull to that blessed Apostle and Silas preachers of the Gospel to receive from men and they did accept that as lawfull now to Gods faithfull ministers But it was lawfull for the Apostle Paul and Silas to receive the title of sirs or masters 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Domini Sirs or Masters a title of honour and they did accept of that title of honour
not own the Spirit of God speaking in the Scriptures Mr Bournes Reply Mr Bourn began to presse other Arguments but Nayler would not hearken but cried stop thy mouth liar liar Then Mr Bourne called to another Question But let any man truly consider the Arguments and see if Naylers mouth was not most fit to be stopped and if Nayler was not the great liar accusing others wrongfully for that of which hee was so justly guilty himselfe Nayler did not then give his answer to the Question in writing but sent it to us the day after the Disputation In which he falsely applieth divers places of Scripture to prove if he could that it is not the Spirit of God speaking in the holy Scriptures but the Spirit in holy men that is the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith I shall only in briefe give some answer to his Allegation of Scripture and some observations by the way and then proceed to the second Question Naylers Allegation 1. The first Scripture Nayler alledgeth is that Exod. 18.16 When they have any matter saith Moses they come to me and I judge between one and another c. Therefore thinks Nayler it is not the Spirit speaking in the Scriptures but the Spirit speaking in men that judgeth To which for answer Reply First I observe with what spirit the Quaker doth agree in this Allegation Cardinalis Bellarmin de judice Controversiarii fidei lib. 3. cap. 3. and this is with the Spirit of Antichrist in Cardinall Bellarmine who brings the selfe same place of Scripture to prove an outward Judge of Controversies of Faith and to bee interpreter of the holy Scripture The Question he proposeth is whether the interpretation of Scripture be to be sought from some one visible common Judge which he affirmeth and endeavours to prove from this Scripture That as Moses did answer to all doubts arising about the Law of God so there must be an outward visible Judge of all Controversies And this is the Church and the Spirit in the Church or in the chiefe Pastor the Pope with his Councill of Pastours saith Bellarmine and the Spirit speaking in holy men saith Nayler that is in himselfe and his fellow Quaker And thus you may see from whom the Quakers received this Doctrine even from the popish seducing Jesuits or some seduced Socinians or other Heretickes who seeke to disgrace the holy Scriptures that they may more easily set forth their owne errours with faire pretences of the spirit But to answer Cardinall Bellarmine and James Nayler both together 1. Moses was an extraordinary man and had an extraordinary measure of the Spirit and yet Moses did not take upon him an infallibility of Spirit and Judgement but did make known to the people the statutes of God and his lawes Thus what God had or did reveale that was the Judge not his own Spirit nor any Spirit in him but the voice of God in his law or Gods own direction to end the Controversie This is evident if you consult these places of Scripture which witnesse what Moses did in the cause of the womans son that cursed God Lev. 24. Lev. 24.11 12 13 14. And about receiving the Passeover by the men that had touched the dead body of a man Num. 6.9 Numb 9.7 8. Numb 32.33 34 15 32. And concerning the man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day Numb 15. he consults with God in all those Thus Moses and holy men before the Law written they enquire of God to know his mind and pleasure and follow that which God taught them But after the Law and word and will of God was written then to the Law and to the Testimony If they speake not according to this it is because they have no light in them Isaiah 8.20 as the Prophet Isaiah doth witnesse 2. Observe what matters they were which Moses did judge they were not matters of Faith but matters of Fact Controversies between man and man he did judge between one and another saith that Text which Nayler himselfe alledgeth nothing to the purpose if he speak of the Question For this is whether the Spirit of God speaking in the Scriptures Exod. 18.16 be the chiefe Judge of controversies of Faith not of actions between man and man And this the Reader whose eies are open may easily discerne that this place of Scripture will neither fit Cardinall Bellarmine a Papist nor James Nayler a Quaker Nayler doth alledge divers other Scriptures of the same nature to the same purpose As that in Solomons prayer 1 Kin. 3.9 1 Kin. 3. That God would give him an understanding heart that he might judge Gods people to which the former answer may give full satisfaction 3. 1 Cor. 2 15 16. Nayler alledgeth that of the Apostle 1 Cor. 2. He that is spirituall judgeth all things yet he himselfe is judged of no man for who hath known the mind of the Lord that he might instruct him but we have the mind of Christ Therefore if Nayler may judge it is not the Spirit of God speaking in the Scriptures but the Spirit speaking in such spirituall men as he is which is the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith And herein the Quaker exceeds Cardinall Bellarmine by far for the popish Cardinall would have infallibility of spirit only in the Pope and his company but the Quaker maketh every particular spirituall man a spirituall Pope to be a chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith otherwise Naylers Scripture is nothing to the Question for the Question is not concerning a private inferiour or particular Judge but concerning a chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith as Nayler himselfe repeateth it Question the first To give an answer to this and divers other Scriptures alledged by Nayler But that he cannot away with a Distinction he might know that there is a twofold Judge of Controversies First A Magisteriall Judge as I may so call it a supreme highest directing publike Judge to judge and discerne and direct and finally sentence in the Church all Controversies of Faith And this is the holy Scriptures and the Spirit of God speaking in the Scriptures to which Christ himselfe did appeale and direct his hearers to appeale unto in that great Controversie of Faith John 5.39 Search the Scriptures for in them ye think to have eternall life and they are they that testifie of me which we noted before Againe there is a Ministeriall inferiour more private Judge of spirituall things and so of Controversies of Faith And this may be every particular spirituall regenerate man or Christian according to the measure of that light of the Spirit and grace of Faith he hath received from Christ and for the satisfaction of his owne conscience by the light of the Spirit speaking in the Scriptures and the light of Christ within him he may so far as he is able judge of opinions and doctrines of men whether they agree to the doctrine of Christ in the holy