the_o same_o point_v the_o scripture_n be_v also_o sufficient_a and_o clear_a which_o cuident_o show_v that_o you_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n may_v well_o stand_v with_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n &_o consequent_o to_o oppose_v either_o the_o scripture_n or_o church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v one_o a_o heretic_n and_o this_o be_v sufficient_a for_o our_o purpose_n yea_o since_o you_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o it_o be_v heresy_n to_o oppose_v the_o scripture_n and_o that_o you_o also_o grant_v that_o the_o scripture_n affirm_v the_o church_n to_o be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_a point_n it_o follow_v that_o even_o according_a to_o you_o every_o one_o who_o oppose_v the_o church_n in_o such_o point_n be_v a_o heretic_n even_o because_o he_o oppose_v the_o church_n although_o the_o further_a reason_n hereof_o be_v because_o he_o oppose_v the_o scripture_n which_o recommend_v the_o church_n so_o that_o all_o which_o you_o have_v say_v about_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n alone_o be_v in_o diverse_a respect_n nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n 5._o you_o affirm_v that_o 136_o that_o pag._n 136_o eckius_fw-la pighius_fw-la hosius_n turrianus_n costerus_n do_v every_o where_o in_o their_o writing_n speak_v wicked_o and_o contumelious_o of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o because_o this_o be_v a_o common_a slander_n of_o protestant_n against_o catholic_a writer_n i_o do_v here_o challenge_v you_o to_o produce_v but_o one_o i_o say_v but_o one_o only_a place_n either_o out_o of_o any_o one_o of_o these_o who_o you_o name_v or_o any_o other_o catholic_a doctor_n who_o speak_v wicked_o or_o contumelious_o against_o holy_a scripture_n but_o be_v sure_a you_o do_v not_o confound_v speak_v against_o scripture_n itself_o with_o speak_v against_o the_o abuse_n thereof_o or_o against_o the_o letter_n of_o scripture_n wrest_v to_o some_o heretical_a sense_n against_o which_o our_o author_n speak_v and_o can_v speak_v too_o much_o and_o s._n hierome_n with_o other_o father_n do_v the_o same_o 6._o you_o proceed_v and_o say_v the_o testimony_n 139._o testimony_n pag._n 139._o of_o the_o present_a church_n work_v very_o powerful_o &_o probable_o first_o upon_o infidel_n to_o win_v they_o to_o a_o reverend_a opinion_n of_o faith_n and_o scripture_n etc._n etc._n second_o upon_o novice_n weakling_n and_o doubter_n in_o the_o faith_n to_o instruct_v &_o confirm_v they_o till_o they_o may_v acquaint_v themselves_o with_o and_o understand_v the._n scripture_n which_o the_o church_n deliver_v as_o the_o word_n of_o god_n three_o upon_o all_o within_o the_o church_n to_o prepare_v induce_v and_o persuade_v the_o mind_n as_o a_o outward_a mean_n to_o embrace_v the_o faith_n to_o read_v and_o believe_v the_o scripture_n but_o the_o faith_n of_o a_o christian_a find_v not_o in_o all_o this_o any_o sure_a ground_n whereon_o final_o to_o rest_n or_o settle_v itself_o because_o divine_a faith_n require_v a_o testimony_n absolute_o divine_a and_o yet_o our_o adversary_n yield_v that_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o present_a church_n be_v not_o absolute_o divine_a to_o which_o purpose_n you_o cite_v in_o your_o margin_n some_o of_o our_o author_n and_o therefore_o it_o can_v rely_v upon_o the_o church_n 7._o this_o your_o discourse_n be_v neither_o pertinent_a nor_o true_a for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o as_o i_o have_v often_o tell_v you_o whether_o or_o no_o our_o faith_n be_v resolve_v into_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n but_o whether_o we_o may_v not_o true_o infer_v that_o whosoever_o resist_v the_o church_n in_o those_o point_n which_o she_o do_v infallible_o propose_v as_o reveal_v by_o god_n which_o infallibility_n you_o yield_v to_o she_o for_o all_o fundamental_a point_n be_v not_o a_o heretic_n because_o at_o lest_o by_o resist_v the_o church_n he_o consequent_o come_v to_o oppose_v the_o testimony_n or_o reuclation_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o formal_a object_n of_o faith_n beside_o if_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n work_v but_o probable_o upon_o infidel_n and_o novice_n who_o by_o you_o be_v teach_v to_o believe_v that_o she_o may_v err_v unless_o you_o will_v circumvent_v they_o by_o dissemble_v her_o fallibility_n they_o will_v have_v wit_n enough_o to_o tell_v themselves_o that_o since_o she_o may_v err_v and_o speak_v but_o probable_o she_o can_v work_v so_o powerful_o upon_o they_o but_o that_o they_o may_v still_o doubt_v whether_o she_o do_v not_o actual_o err_v and_o deceive_v they_o and_o how_o can_v the_o church_n work_v upon_o all_o within_o she_o to_o prepare_v induce_v and_o persuade_v the_o mind_n to_o embrace_v the_o faith_n to_o read_v and_o believe_v scripture_n be_v they_o within_o the_o church_n before_o they_o have_v embrace_v the_o faith_n or_o must_v they_o want_v faith_n till_o they_o read_v and_o believe_v the_o scripture_n or_o rather_o since_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n all_o faith_n depend_v on_o scripture_n must_v they_o not_o believe_v the_o scripture_n before_o they_o embrace_v the_o faith_n and_o consequent_o before_o they_o be_v in_o the_o church_n how_o then_o do_v the_o church_n prepare_v induce_v and_o persuade_v they_o that_o be_v within_o she_o to_o embrace_v the_o faith_n and_o to_o read_v and_o believe_v the_o scripture_n if_o our_o faith_n must_v rest_v and_o settle_v only_o upon_o the_o write_a word_n of_o god_n how_o do_v s._n irenaeus_n 4._o irenaeus_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 4._o affirm_v that_o many_o nation_n have_v be_v convert_v to_o christ_n without_o scripture_n be_v they_o convert_v only_o to_o a_o humane_a faith_n 8._o and_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o absolute_o divine_a and_o therefore_o can_v be_v the_o last_o and_o formal_a object_n of_o faith_n it_o be_v but_o a_o equivocation_n and_o you_o infer_v that_o which_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v coninck_n who_o you_o cite_v in_o your_o margin_n and_o translate_v by_o half_n answer_v your_o objection_n in_o the_o very_a word_n which_o you_o allege_v although_o say_v he_o the_o church_n 2._o church_n disp_n 9_o dub_v 5._o conel_n 2._o be_v direct_v by_o the_o infallible_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n her_o testimony_n do_v in_o some_o sort_n rely_v upon_o the_o divine_a authority_n and_o receive_v from_o it_o strength_n all_o which_o word_n you_o do_v not_o translate_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o true_o or_o proper_o the_o testimony_n or_o word_n and_o revelation_n of_o god_n but_o proper_o it_o be_v a_o humane_a testimony_n you_o see_v then_o that_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n in_o some_o sense_n be_v divine_a that_o be_v infallible_o direct_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o be_v enough_o for_o our_o purpose_n although_o it_o be_v not_o divine_a in_o another_o sense_n that_o be_v her_o word_n be_v not_o the_o immediate_a voice_n of_o god_n as_o scripture_n be_v because_o she_o do_v not_o propose_v any_o new_a revelation_n make_v immediate_o to_o she_o but_o only_o infallible_o declare_v what_o revelation_n have_v be_v make_v to_o prophet_n apostle_n etc._n etc._n yourself_o affirm_v that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_a point_n and_o consequent_o her_o testimony_n be_v not_o mere_o humane_a and_o fallible_a and_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o absolute_o divine_a and_o so_o you_o must_v answer_v your_o own_o argument_n and_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o some_o point_n may_v be_v to_o we_o a_o ground_n sufficient_a for_o our_o infallible_a assent_n or_o belief_n for_o such_o article_n and_o if_o you_o will_v tell_v we_o that_o faith_n must_v be_v resolve_v into_o some_o authority_n which_o be_v absolute_o divine_a as_o divine_a signify_v that_o which_o be_v distinct_a from_o all_o thing_n create_v you_o will_v find_v yourself_o go_v too_o far_o for_o scripture_n itself_o be_v a_o thing_n create_v and_o not_o a_o god_n be_v not_o divine_a in_o that_o sense_n and_o the_o apostle_n who_o receive_v immediate_a revelation_n from_o god_n when_o afterward_o they_o do_v preach_v and_o declare_v they_o to_o other_o those_o declaration_n which_o suppose_v the_o revelation_n already_o make_v be_v not_o in_o the_o opinion_n of_o many_o divines_n the_o testimony_n or_o word_n of_o god_n but_o of_o man_n infallible_o assist_v by_o god_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o hence_o infer_v that_o it_o have_v not_o be_v heresy_n to_o oppose_v the_o declaration_n of_o the_o apostle_n although_o they_o do_v not_o preach_v new_a revelation_n but_o only_o declare_v and_o propound_v such_o as_o have_v be_v already_o make_v to_o they_o 9_o your_o word_n which_o be_v indeed_o but_o word_n that_o scripture_n 141._o scripture_n pag._n 141._o be_v of_o divine_a authority_n the_o believer_n see_v by_o that_o glorious_a beam_n of_o divine_a light_n which_o shine_v in_o scripture_n i_o confute_v heretofore_o and_o what_o great_a
confutation_n can_v there_o be_v then_o by_o your_o own_o word_n the_o believer_n see_v for_o if_o he_o see_v how_o do_v he_o believe_v or_o if_o he_o believe_v how_o do_v he_o see_v especial_o since_o you_o say_v he_o believe_v and_o see_v upon_o the_o same_o formal_a object_n or_o motive_n yet_o that_o scripture_n be_v know_v by_o itself_o you_o prove_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n who_o saych_a that_o the_o scripture_n 2._o scripture_n de_fw-fr verb._n deilib_n 1._o çap._n 2._o which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o prophetical_a and_o apostolical_a write_n be_v most_o certain_a and_o divine_a scripture_n itself_o witness_v but_o these_o word_n will_v prove_v to_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o bellarmine_n in_o that_o place_n dispute_v against_o the_o swenckfeldian_a heretic_n who_o deny_v all_o scripture_n say_v that_o he_o do_v not_o allege_v ibid._n allege_v ibid._n testimony_n of_o scripture_n as_o if_o he_o think_v that_o his_o adversary_n make_v any_o great_a account_n of_o they_o but_o lest_o the_o scripture_n the_o authority_n whereof_o his_o adversary_n do_v sometime_o abuse_v against_o we_o who_o reverence_n they_o may_v be_v think_v to_o favour_v their_o doctrine_n be_v this_o to_o affirm_v that_o scripture_n be_v certain_o and_o evident_o know_v by_o scripture_n or_o rather_o contrary_o to_o say_v that_o it_o must_v first_o be_v believe_v before_o it_o be_v powerful_a to_o persuade_v and_o therefore_o immediate_o after_o the_o word_n by_o you_o cite_v which_o be_v the_o scripture_n self_n witness_v he_o add_v these_o which_o you_o as_o you_o be_v wont_a leave_v out_o who_o prediction_n of_o thing_n to_o come_v if_o they_o be_v true_a as_o the_o event_n afterward_o do_v manifest_a why_o shall_v not_o the_o testimony_n of_o thing_n present_v be_v true_a where_o you_o see_v that_o he_o prove_v not_o the_o scripture_n by_o that_o beam_n of_o light_n which_o evidenly_a shine_v in_o scripture_n but_o by_o prediction_n which_o we_o grant_v to_o be_v a_o good_a inducement_n or_o as_o divine_n speak_v a_o argument_n of_o credibility_n and_o yet_o no_o infallible_a ground_n of_o faith_n to_o believe_v that_o scripture_n be_v divine_a and_o much_o less_o a_o beam_n of_o light_n clear_o convince_a we_o that_o scripture_n be_v scripture_n for_o one_o may_v be_v inspire_v to_o prophesy_v or_o speak_v truth_n in_o some_o point_n and_o for_o other_o be_v leave_v to_o humane_a discourse_n or_o error_n as_o it_o happen_v in_o balam_n and_o the_o friend_n of_o job._n and_o therefore_o bellarmine_n in_o that_o very_a place_n bring_v other_o extrinsecall_a argument_n as_o miracle_n exemplar_n and_o visible_a strange_a punishment_n of_o such_o as_o presume_v to_o abuse_v holy_a scripture_n etc._n etc._n which_o evident_o show_v that_o he_o intend_v to_o bring_v argument_n of_o credibility_n and_o not_o infallible_a ground_n of_o faith_n whereby_o we_o believe_v that_o scripture_n be_v scripture_n which_o we_o must_v take_v from_o the_o infallible_a testimony_n of_o the_o church_n by_o mean_n of_o tradition_n whereof_o bellarmine_n say_v this_o so_o necessary_a a_o point_n to_o wit_n that_o 4._o that_o deverb_v dei_fw-la nonseripro_fw-la lib._n 4._o c._n 4._o there_o be_v some_o divine_a scripture_n can_v be_v have_v from_o scripture_n itself_o whereby_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o you_o plain_o corrupt_v bellarmine_n meaning_n when_o you_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v out_o of_o he_o that_o scripture_n can_v be_v prove_v by_o scripture_n alone_o the_o contrary_a whereof_o he_o affirm_v and_o prove_v at_o large_a against_o the_o heretic_n of_o these_o time_n the_o place_n which_o you_o cite_v of_o origen_n only_o prove_v that_o those_o who_o already_o believe_v the_o canonical_a book_n of_o scripture_n may_v prove_v out_o of_o they_o that_o scripture_n be_v divine_o inspire_v as_o s._n peter_n 21._o peter_n epist._n 2._o vers_fw-la 21._o say_v neither_o do_v the_o authority_n of_o saluianus_n prove_v any_o thing_n else_o 10._o your_o say_n that_o we_o yield_v to_o the_o church_n a_o absolute_a 144.145_o absolute_a pag._n 144.145_o unlimited_a authority_n to_o propound_v what_o she_o please_v and_o a_o unlimited_a power_n to_o supply_v the_o defect_n of_o scripture_n i_o let_v pass_v as_o mere_a slander_n as_o also_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v absolute_a not_o 144._o not_o pag._n 144._o depend_v on_o scripture_n but_o on_o which_o the_o scripture_n itself_o depend_v and_o you_o can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o that_o which_o have_v be_v so_o often_o inculcate_v by_o catholic_a writer_n that_o the_o scripture_n in_o themselves_o do_v not_o depend_v on_o the_o church_n but_o only_o in_o respect_n of_o we_o who_o learno_fw-la from_o she_o what_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n which_o be_v to_o say_v not_o the_o scripture_n but_o our_o weak_a understanding_n and_o knowledge_n of_o scripture_n rely_v on_o the_o church_n which_o our_o saviour_n christ_n command_v we_o to_o hear_v and_o yourself_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n 142.143_o church_n pag._n 142.143_o be_v the_o ordinary_a outward_a mean_n to_o present_v and_o propound_v divine_a verity_n to_o our_o faith_n you_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o your_o knowledge_n of_o the_o trinity_n incarnation_n etc._n etc._n depend_v on_o scripture_n will_v you_o thence_o in_o fer_fw-fr that_o the_o bless_a trinity_n incarnation_n etc._n etc._n in_o themselves_o depend_v on_o scripture_n as_o if_o god_n have_v not_o be_v god_n unless_o scripture_n have_v be_v write_v beside_o to_o such_o as_o believe_v scripture_n we_o may_v prove_v the_o church_n herself_o by_o scripture_n and_o she_o in_o all_o her_o definition_n do_v consult_v examine_v and_o submit_v herself_o to_o scripture_n against_o which_o she_o never_o do_v nor_o ever_o can_v define_v any_o thing_n &_o in_o this_o sense_n also_o she_o depend_v on_o scripture_n but_o to_o make_v good_a your_o slander_n you_o 144._o you_o pag._n 144._o cite_v bellarmine_n after_o your_o wont_a fashion_n if_o we_o take_v away_o testimonium_fw-la away_o de_fw-fr effect_n sacram._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 25._o §_o tertium_fw-la testimonium_fw-la the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n this_o of_o rome_n be_v your_o addition_n and_o of_o the_o trent-councell_n the_o decree_n of_o all_o other_o ancient_a counsel_n and_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v question_v as_o doubtful_a for_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o doctrine_n and_o of_o all_o counsel_n depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n will_v not_o one_o think_v by_o these_o word_n that_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o doctrine_n depend_v on_o the_o church_n whereas_o bellarmine_n only_o say_v that_o we_o can_v not_o infallible_o know_v that_o there_o be_v such_o general_n counsel_n and_o that_o they_o be_v law_n full_a counsel_n and_o that_o they_o define_v this_o or_o that_o but_o because_o the_o present_a church_n which_o can_v err_v do_v so_o believe_v and_o teach_v us._n which_o word_n demonstrate_v that_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o faith_n or_o doctrine_n in_o themselves_o but_o in_o respect_n of_o us._n and_o do_v not_o you_o yourself_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v the_o church_n which_o direct_v we_o to_o scripture_n and_o that_o she_o likewise_o be_v the_o ordinary_a outward_a mean_n to_o present_v and_o propound_v divine_a verity_n without_o which_o propesition_n no_o object_n can_v be_v convey_v to_o our_o 142.143_o our_o pag._n 142.143_o faith_n and_o what_o be_v this_o but_o to_o acknowledge_v that_o in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n without_o the_o guidance_n direction_n and_o proposition_n of_o the_o church_n we_o have_v no_o faith_n at_o all_o 11._o you_o likewise_o cite_v these_o word_n out_o of_o est_fw-la of_o de_fw-fr eccles_n mil._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 10_o §._o ad_fw-la haec_fw-la necesse_fw-la est_fw-la bellarmine_n the_o scripture_n tradition_n and_o all_o doctrine_n whatsoever_o depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n he_o mean_v say_v you_o that_o of_o rome_n without_o which_o all_o be_v whole_o uncertain_a but_o bellarmine_n word_n be_v these_o since_o the_o scripture_n tradition_n and_o all_o doctrine_n whatsoever_o depend_v upon_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n all_o thing_n will_v be_v uncertaync_a unless_o we_o be_v most_o assure_v which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n you_o see_v bellarmine_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n as_o you_o in_o your_o parenthesis_n will_v make_v he_o seem_v to_o speak_v and_o as_o for_o the_o universal_a true_a church_n what_o principle_n of_o atheis_fw-la i_o be_v it_o as_o you_o very_o exorbitant_o 145_o exorbitant_o pag._n 145_o affirm_v to_o say_v that_o if_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n of_o scripture_n tradition_n or_o any_o thing_n else_o do_v you_o think_v that_o it_o be_v safe_a to_o take_v the_o scripture_n upon_o the_o credit_n of_o a_o false_a church_n as_o well_o may_v you_o take_v they_o upon_o the_o
believe_v infallible_a unwritten_a tradition_n and_o whereas_o you_o say_v bellarmine_n be_v resolute_a that_o the_o article_n of_o the_o descent_n be_v every_o where_o in_o scripture_n and_o in_o latin_a scripturae_fw-la passim_fw-la hoc_fw-la docent_fw-la bellarmine_n word_n be_v all_o man_n agree_v that_o christ_n descend_v into_o hell_n aliquo_fw-la modo_fw-la in_o some_o manner_n or_o sense_n because_o scripture_n every_o where_o teach_v so_o much_o why_o do_v you_o leave_v out_o aliquo_fw-la modo_fw-la which_o word_n may_v well_o have_v show_v that_o there_o be_v no_o contrariety_n between_o bellarmine_n &_o stapleton_n s._n thomas_n do_v not_o purposely_o dispute_v whether_o all_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n but_o only_o upon_o a_o other_o occasion_n teach_v that_o the_o creed_n be_v not_o a_o addition_n to_o scripture_n out_o of_o which_o it_o be_v take_v &_o that_o the_o truth_n believe_v by_o faith_n be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n diverse_a way_n and_o in_o some_o obscure_o which_o do_v in_o no_o wise_n exclude_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n to_o declare_v the_o meaning_n of_o the_o creed_n for_o if_o some_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n but_o obscure_o who_o shall_v declare_v they_o to_o we_o but_o the_o church_n 13._o as_o for_o the_o sense_n of_o that_o 240._o that_o pag._n 240._o article_n some_o hold_n that_o christ_n descend_v real_o into_o hell_n other_o virtual_o and_o by_o effect_n this_o virtual_a descent_n be_v teach_v by_o one_o only_a namely_o durand_n and_o therefore_o your_o other_o be_v but_o a_o exaggeration_n and_o even_o he_o do_v not_o deny_v lymbus_n patrum_fw-la or_o that_o the_o father_n be_v there_o nor_o that_o christ_n descend_v thither_o in_o some_o sort_n but_o only_o differ_v from_o other_o whether_o he_o descend_v secundum_fw-la substantiam_fw-la which_o doctrine_n or_o rather_o doubt_v of_o his_o for_o he_o leave_v the_o thing_n doubtful_a be_v reject_v by_o all_o other_o divines_n as_o erroneous_a 14._o by_o hell_n some_o 240._o some_o pag._n 240._o understand_v the_o low_a pit_n or_o the_o place_n of_o the_o damn_a as_o bellarmine_n at_o first_o other_o the_o lymbus_n patrum_fw-la as_o bellarmine_n at_o last_o will_v not_o one_o conceive_v by_o your_o word_n that_o in_o the_o opinion_n of_o bellarmine_n christ_n descend_v only_o into_o the_o place_n of_o the_o dammned_a and_o yet_o your_o conscience_n can_v but_o tell_v you_o that_o bellarmine_n never_o doubt_v but_o that_o christ_n descend_v into_o lymbus_n patrum_fw-la and_o only_o propose_v it_o as_o doubtful_a whether_o or_o no_o he_o descend_v into_o the_o hell_n of_o the_o damn_a and_o resolve_v probabile_fw-la est_fw-la it_o be_v probable_a that_o the_o soul_n of_o christ_n descend_v to_o all_o the_o infernal_a place_n or_o hell_n but_o afterward_o in_o his_o recognition_n he_o retract_v his_o opinion_n for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v the_o place_n of_o the_o damn_a whereby_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o he_o never_o doubt_v of_o our_o saviour_n descent_n to_o lymbus_n and_o that_o you_o affirm_v the_o contrary_a do_v without_o doubt_n desire_v to_o deceive_v your_o reader_n 15._o you_o say_v that_o it_o be_v the_o most_o important_a 242._o important_a pag._n 242._o and_o most_o fundamental_a of_o all_o article_n in_o the_o church_n to_o believe_v that_o jesus_n christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n &_o the_o son_n of_o mary_n be_v the_o only_a saviour_n of_o the_o world_n wherein_o you_o give_v a_o deadly_a blow_n to_o d._n morton_n who_o teach_v that_o the_o arian_n deny_v our_o saviour_n to_o be_v god_n do_v notwithstanding_o make_v a_o true_a church_n and_o if_o the_o opinion_n of_o m._n hooker_n for_o which_o you_o bring_v diverse_a argument_n be_v true_a you_o can_v exclude_v the_o arian_n or_o trinitarian_n from_o be_v member_n of_o a_o true_a church_n 16._o to_o clear_v the_o confusedness_n of_o your_o church_n in_o her_o 39_o article_n you_o lay_v the_o fault_n upon_o us._n but_o by_o your_o leave_n if_o you_o read_v either_o catholic_a divines_n or_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n you_o will_v find_v that_o they_o speak_v most_o clear_o and_o distinct_o but_o charity_n mistake_v do_v true_o say_v that_o you_o be_v very_o careful_a not_o to_o be_v too_o clear_o understand_v and_o therefore_o in_o many_o controversy_n whereof_o that_o book_n of_o the_o 39_o article_n speak_v it_o come_v not_o at_o all_o to_o the_o main_a question_n between_o they_o and_o we_o etc._n etc._n which_o affirmation_n of_o he_o be_v most_o true_a both_o in_o the_o point_n by_o he_o specify_v &_o in_o diverse_a other_o as_o for_o example_n the_o three_o of_o our_o saviour_n descent_n into_o hell_n the_o 26._o of_o the_o nature_n and_o effect_n of_o sacrament_n the_o 27._o will_v have_v the_o baptism_n of_o child_n to_o be_v retain_v but_o do_v not_o specify_v whether_o or_o no_o it_o be_v necessary_a the_o 28._o about_o the_o lord_n supper_n be_v so_o general_a and_o of_o so_o large_a a_o size_n that_o it_o may_v reach_v to_o zwinglians_n caluinist_n &_o lutheran_n who_o yet_o in_o this_o article_n be_v know_v to_o be_v as_o far_o asunder_o from_o each_o other_o as_o east_n from_o west_n i_o omit_v other_o article_n and_o only_o urge_v that_o which_o charity_n mistake_v press_v and_o you_o whole_o dissemble_v that_o those_o article_n do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o say_v that_o the_o article_n of_o doctrine_n which_o they_o deliver_v be_v fundamental_a either_o all_o or_o half_a or_o any_o one_o thereof_o or_o that_o they_o be_v necessary_o to_o be_v believe_v by_o they_o or_o the_o contrary_a damnable_a if_o it_o be_v believe_v by_o us._n be_v this_o to_o keep_v your_o promise_n not_o to_o omit_v without_o answer_v any_o thing_n of_o moment_n in_o all_o his_o discourse_n certain_o this_o which_o charity_n mistake_v do_v urge_v here_o be_v according_a to_o your_o principle_n the_o very_a quintessence_n of_o all_o other_o point_n i_o will_v not_o stand_v to_o examine_v how_o true_o you_o affirm_v that_o our_o will_n be_v essential_o free_a from_o all_o necessity_n such_o motion_n of_o our_o will_n as_o prevent_v the_o deliberation_n of_o reason_n be_v they_o not_o necessary_a the_o will_n in_o good_a philosophy_n can_v suffer_v coaction_n but_o it_o may_v be_v necessitate_v without_o change_v the_o essence_n thereof_o 17._o to_o the_o demand_n of_o charity_n mistake_v why_o do_v they_o not_o particular_o enumerate_v all_o the_o book_n which_o they_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v of_o the_o new_a testament_n as_o they_o have_v do_v they_o of_o the_o old_a but_o only_o because_o they_o must_v so_o have_v name_v those_o book_n of_o s._n james_n and_o other_o for_o canonical_a which_o the_o lutheran_n have_v cast_v out_o of_o their_o canon_n you_o answer_v that_o the_o lutheran_n do_v now_o admit_v the_o epistle_n of_o s._n james_n and_o the_o rest_n as_o canonical_a which_o you_o prove_v by_o d._n gerhard_n a_o lutheran_n but_o if_o this_o be_v so_o you_o do_v not_o answer_v his_o question_n what_o the_o reason_n be_v why_o your_o church_n do_v not_o particular_o enumerate_v all_o the_o book_n which_o they_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v of_o the_o new_a testament_n as_o she_o have_v do_v they_o of_o the_o old_a beside_o what_o authority_n have_v d._n gerhard_n to_o speak_v for_o all_o the_o lutheran_n of_o which_o there_o be_v diverse_a sort_n condemn_v one_o another_o if_o once_o you_o deny_v the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n what_o infallible_a ground_n have_v d._n gerhard_n this_o day_n to_o admit_v of_o those_o book_n which_o yesterday_o other_o lutheran_n reject_v in_o the_o bibles_n of_o luther_n to_o this_o day_n the_o epistle_n to_o the_o hebrew_n the_o epistle_n of_o s._n james_n and_o s._n jude_n and_o the_o apocalyps_n of_o s._n john_n be_v exclude_v from_o the_o canon_n 18._o now_o that_o none_o of_o those_o book_n which_o we_o hold_v for_o canonical_a be_v apocryphal_a as_o you_o teach_v bellarmine_n çapita_fw-la bellarmine_n de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la l._n 1._o per_fw-la multa_fw-la çapita_fw-la prove_v at_o large_a and_o answer_v all_o your_o objection_n and_o if_o any_o heretofore_o doubt_v of_o some_o of_o they_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o visible_a catholic_a church_n of_o christ_n ought_v to_o preponderate_a all_o doubt_n of_o particular_a person_n and_o it_o be_v strange_a that_o you_o cite_v s._n augustine_n against_o the_o maccabee_n who_o in_o that_o very_a place_n which_o you_o cite_v say_v the_o scripture_n 23._o scripture_n cont._n ep_v gaudent_fw-la lib._n 2._o ç._fw-la 23._o of_o the_o maccabee_n be_v receive_v by_o the_o church_n not_o unprofitable_o if_o it_o be_v read_v and_o hear_v sober_o which_o latter_a word_n be_v understand_v only_o against_o desperate_a inference_n of_o the_o donatist_n who_o upon_o the_o example_n of_o razias_n in_o the_o history_n of_o the_o maccabee_n do_v kill_v and_o precipitate_v themselves_o as_o
of_o charity_n and_o be_v resolve_v to_o take_v scandal_n where_o none_o be_v give_v we_o must_v comfort_v ourselves_o with_o that_o grave_n and_o true_a say_n of_o s._n gregory_n if_o scandal_n eze_n scandal_n s._n greg._n hom._n 7._o in_o eze_n be_v take_v from_o declare_v a_o truth_n it_o be_v better_a to_o permit_v scandal_n then_o forsake_v the_o truth_n but_o the_o solid_a ground_n of_o our_o assertion_n and_o the_o sincerity_n of_o intention_n in_o utter_v what_o we_o think_v yield_v we_o confidence_n that_o all_o will_v hold_v for_o most_o reasonable_a the_o say_n of_o pope_n gelasius_n to_o anastasius_n the_o emperor_n far_o be_v it_o from_o the_o roman_a emperor_n that_o he_o shall_v hold_v it_o for_o a_o wrong_a to_o have_v truth_n declare_v to_o he_o let_v we_o therefore_o begin_v with_o that_o point_n which_o be_v the_o first_o that_o can_v be_v controvert_v betwixt_o protestat_n &_o we_o for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v the_o present_a question_n &_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o argument_n of_o the_o next_o ensue_a chapter_n chap._n ii_o what_o be_v that_o mean_n whereby_o the_o reveal_v truth_n of_o god_n be_v convey_v to_o our_o understanding_n and_o which_o must_v determine_v controversy_n in_o faith_n and_o religion_n of_o our_o estimation_n respect_n and_o reverence_n to_o holy_a scripture_n even_o protestant_n themselves_n do_v in_o fact_n give_v testimony_n while_o they_o possess_v it_o from_o we_o &_o take_v it_o upon_o the_o integrity_n of_o our_o custody_n no_o cause_n imaginable_a can_v avert_v our_o will_n from_o give_v the_o function_n of_o supreme_a &_o sole_a judge_n to_o holy_a writ_n if_o both_o the_o thing_n be_v not_o impossible_a in_o itself_o &_o if_o both_o reason_n &_o experience_n do_v not_o convince_v our_o understanding_n that_o by_o this_o assertion_n contention_n be_v increase_v and_o not_o end_v we_o acknowledge_v holy_a scripture_n to_o be_v a_o most_o perfect_a rule_n for_o as_o much_o as_o a_o writing_n can_v be_v a_o rule_n we_o only_o deny_v that_o it_o exclude_v either_o divine_a tradition_n though_o it_o be_v unwritten_a or_o a_o external_a judge_n to_o keep_v to_o propose_v to_o interpret_v it_o in_o a_o true_a orthodox_n and_o catholic_a sense_n every_o single_a book_n every_o chapter_n yea_o every_o period_n of_o holy_a scripture_n be_v infallible_o true_a &_o want_v no_o due_a perfection_n but_o must_v we_o therefore_o infer_v that_o all_o other_o book_n of_o scripture_n be_v to_o be_v exclude_v least_o by_o addition_n of_o they_o we_o may_v seem_v to_o derogate_v from_o the_o perfection_n of_o the_o former_a when_o the_o first_o book_n of_o the_o old_a &_o new_a testament_n be_v write_v they_o do_v not_o exclude_v unwritten_a tradition_n nor_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n to_o decide_v controversy_n &_o who_o have_v then_o so_o alter_v their_o nature_n &_o fill_v they_o with_o such_o jealousy_n as_o that_o now_o they_o can_v agree_v for_o fear_n of_o mutual_a disparagement_n what_o great_a wrong_n be_v it_o for_o the_o write_a word_n to_o be_v compartner_z now_o with_o the_o unwritten_a then_o for_o the_o unwritten_a which_o be_v once_o alone_o to_o be_v afterward_o join_v with_o the_o write_v who_o ever_o hear_v that_o to_o commend_v the_o fidelity_n of_o a_o keeper_n be_v to_o disauthorize_v the_o thing_n commit_v to_o his_o custody_n or_o that_o to_o extol_v the_o integrity_n and_o knowledge_n and_o to_o avouch_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o judge_n in_o suit_n of_o law_n be_v to_o deny_v perfection_n in_o the_o law_n be_v there_o not_o in_o common_a wealth_n beside_o the_o law_n write_v &_o unwritten_a custom_n judge_n appoint_v to_o declare_v both_o the_o one_o the_o other_o as_o several_a occasion_n may_v require_v 2._o that_o the_o scripture_n alone_o can_v be_v judge_n in_o controversy_n of_o faith_n we_o gather_v very_o clear_o from_o the_o quality_n of_o a_o write_n in_o general_a from_o the_o nature_n of_o holy_a writ_n in_o particular_a which_o must_v be_v believe_v as_o true_a and_o infallible_a from_o the_o edition_n &_o translation_n of_o it_o from_o the_o difficulty_n to_o understand_v it_o without_o hazard_n of_o error_n from_o the_o inconvenience_n that_o must_v follow_v upon_o the_o ascribe_v of_o sole_a judicature_n to_o it_o &_o final_o from_o the_o confession_n of_o our_o adversary_n and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n all_o these_o difficulty_n cease_v and_o all_o other_o quality_n requisite_a to_o a_o judge_n concur_v in_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n our_o lord_n we_o must_v conclude_v that_o â—he_v it_o be_v to_o who_o in_o doubt_n concern_v faith_n and_o religion_n all_o christian_n ought_v to_o have_v recourse_n 3._o the_o name_n notion_n nature_n and_o property_n of_o a_o judge_n can_v in_o common_a reason_n agree_v to_o any_o mere_a writing_n which_o be_v it_o otherwise_o in_o its_o kind_n never_o so_o high_o qualify_v with_o sanctity_n and_o infallibility_n yet_o it_o must_v ever_o be_v as_o all_o writing_n be_v deaf_a dumb_a and_o inanimate_a by_o a_o judge_n all_o wise_a man_n understand_v a_o person_n endue_v with_o life_n and_o reason_n able_a to_o hear_v to_o examine_v to_o declare_v his_o mind_n to_o the_o disagree_a party_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o each_o one_o may_v know_v whether_o the_o sentence_n be_v in_o favour_n of_o his_o cause_n or_o against_o his_o pretence_n and_o he_o must_v be_v appliable_a and_o able_a to_o do_v all_o this_o as_o the_o diversity_n of_o controversy_n person_n occasion_n and_o circumstance_n may_v require_v there_o be_v a_o great_a &_o plain_a distinction_n betwixt_o a_o judge_n and_o a_o rule_n for_o as_o in_o a_o kingdom_n the_o judge_n have_v his_o rule_n to_o follow_v which_o be_v the_o receive_a law_n and_o custom_n so_o be_v not_o they_o fit_a or_o able_a to_o declare_v or_o be_v judge_n to_o themselves_o but_o that_o office_n must_v belong_v to_o a_o live_a judge_n the_o holy_a scripture_n may_v be_v and_o be_v a_o rule_n but_o can_v be_v a_o judge_n because_o it_o be_v always_o the_o same_o can_v declare_v itself_o any_o one_o time_n or_o upon_o any_o one_o occasion_n more_o particular_o then_o upon_o any_o other_o and_o let_v it_o be_v read_v over_o a_o hundred_o time_n it_o will_v be_v still_o the_o same_o and_o no_o more_o fit_a alone_a to_o terminate_v controversy_n in_o faith_n than_o the_o law_n will_v be_v to_o end_v suit_n if_o it_o be_v give_v over_o to_o the_o fancy_n &_o gloss_n of_o every_o single_a man_n 4._o this_o difference_n betwixt_o a_o judge_n and_o a_o rule_n d._n potter_n perceive_v when_o more_o than_o once_o have_v style_v the_o scripture_n a_o judge_n by_o way_n of_o correct_v that_o term_n he_o add_v or_o rather_o a_o rule_n because_o he_o know_v that_o a_o inanimate_a writing_n can_v not_o be_v a_o judge_n fron_n hence_o also_o it_o be_v that_o though_o protestant_n in_o their_o beginning_n affirm_v scripture_n alone_o to_o be_v the_o judge_n of_o controversy_n yet_o upon_o a_o more_o advise_v reflection_n they_o change_v the_o phrase_n and_o say_v that_o not_o scripture_n but_o the_o holy_a ghost_n speak_v in_o scripture_n be_v judge_n in_o controversy_n a_o difference_n without_o a_o disparity_n the_o holy_a ghost_n speak_v only_o in_o scripture_n be_v no_o more_o intelligible_a to_o we_o than_o the_o scripture_n in_o which_o he_o speak_v as_o a_o man_n speak_v only_a latin_a can_v be_v no_o better_o understand_v than_o the_o tongue_n wherein_o he_o speak_v and_o therefore_o to_o say_v a_o judge_n be_v necessary_a for_o decide_v controversy_n about_o the_o meaning_n of_o scripture_n be_v as_o much_o as_o to_o say_v he_o be_v necessary_a to_o decide_v what_o the_o holy_a ghost_n speak_v in_o scripture_n and_o it_o be_v a_o conceit_n equal_o foolish_a and_o pernicious_a if_o one_o shall_v seek_v to_o take_v away_o all_o judge_n in_o the_o kingdom_n upon_o this_o nicety_n that_o albeit_o law_n can_v be_v judge_n yet_o the_o lawmaker_n speak_v in_o the_o law_n may_v perform_v that_o office_n as_o if_o the_o lawmaker_n speak_v in_o the_o law_n be_v with_o more_o perspicuity_n understand_v than_o the_o law_n whereby_o he_o speak_v 5._o but_o though_o some_o writing_n be_v grant_v to_o have_v a_o privilege_n to_o declare_v itself_o upon_o supposition_n that_o it_o be_v maintain_v in_o be_v and_o preserve_v entire_a from_o corruption_n yet_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o no_o writing_n can_v conserve_v itself_o nor_o can_v complain_v or_o denounce_v the_o falsifier_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o it_o stand_v in_o need_n of_o some_o watchful_a and_o not_o err_v eye_n to_o guard_v it_o by_o mean_n of_o who_o assure_a vigilancy_n we_o may_v undoubted_o receive_v it_o sincere_a and_o pure_a 6._o and_o suppose_v it_o can_v defend_v itself_o from_o corruption_n how_o can_v it_o assure_v we_o that_o itself_o be_v canonical_a
be_v some_o universal_a judge_n which_o the_o ignorant_a may_v understand_v and_o to_o who_o the_o great_a clerk_n must_v submit_v such_o be_v the_o church_n and_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o such_o 20._o now_o the_o inconvenience_n which_o follow_v by_o refer_v all_o controversy_n to_o scripture_n alone_o be_v very_o clear_a for_o by_o this_o principle_n all_o be_v final_o in_o very_a deed_n and_o truth_n reduce_v to_o the_o internal_a private_a spirit_n because_o there_o be_v real_o no_o middle_a way_n betwixt_o a_o public_a external_a and_o a_o private_a internal_a voice_n &_o whosoever_o refuse_v the_o one_o must_v of_o necessity_n adhere_v to_o the_o other_o 21._o this_o tenet_n also_o of_o protestant_n by_o take_v the_o office_n of_o judicature_n from_o the_o church_n come_v to_o confer_v it_o upon_o every_o particular_a man_n who_o be_v drive_v from_o submission_n to_o the_o church_n can_v be_v blame_v if_o he_o trust_v himself_o as_o far_o as_o any_o other_o his_o conscience_n dictate_v that_o witting_o he_o mean_v not_o to_o cozen_v himself_o as_o other_o malicious_o may_v do_v which_o inference_n be_v so_o manifest_a that_o it_o have_v extort_a from_o diverse_a protestant_n the_o open_a confession_n of_o so_o vast_a a_o absurdity_n hear_v luther_n the_o governor_n 375._o governor_n tom._n 2._o wittenberg_n fol._n 375._o of_o church_n and_o pastor_n of_o christ_n sheep_n have_v indeed_o power_n to_o teach_v but_o the_o sheep_n ought_v to_o give_v judgement_n whether_o they_o propound_v the_o voice_n of_o christ_n or_o of_o alien_n lubbertus_n say_v as_o we_o have_v 13._o have_v in_o lib._n de_fw-fr principiâ—s_fw-fr christian._n dogm_n lib._n 6._o cap._n 13._o demonstrate_v that_o all_o public_a judge_n may_v be_v deceive_v in_o interpret_n so_o we_o affirm_v that_o they_o may_v err_v in_o judge_v all_o faithful_a man_n be_v prinate_a judge_n and_o they_o also_o have_v power_n to_o judge_n of_o doctrine_n and_o interpretation_n whitaker_n even_o of_o the_o unlearned_a say_v they_o 529._o they_o de_fw-fr sacra_fw-la scriptura_fw-la pag._n 529._o ought_v to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o more_o learned_a but_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n we_o must_v be_v careful_a not_o to_o attribute_v to_o they_o overmuch_o but_o so_o that_o still_o we_o retain_v our_o own_o freedom_n bilson_n also_o affirm_v that_o the_o people_n 2._o people_n in_o his_o true_a difference_n part_n 2._o must_v be_v discerner_n and_o judge_n of_o that_o which_o be_v teach_v this_o same_o pernicious_a doctrine_n be_v deliver_v by_o brentius_n zanchius_n cartwright_n and_o other_o exact_o cite_v by_o 1_o by_o tract_n 2._o cap._n 1._o sect._n 1_o brereley_o &_o nothing_o be_v more_o common_a in_o every_o protestant_n mouth_n then_o that_o he_o admit_v of_o father_n counsel_n church_n etc._n etc._n as_o far_o as_o they_o agree_v with_o scripture_n which_o upon_o the_o matter_n be_v himself_o thus_o heresy_n ever_o fall_v upon_o extreme_n it_o pretend_v to_o have_v scripture_n alone_o for_o judge_n of_o controversy_n and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n set_v up_o as_o many_o judge_n as_o there_o be_v man_n and_o woman_n in_o the_o christian_a world_n what_o good_a statesman_n will_v they_o be_v who_o shall_v idëate_v or_o fancy_v such_o a_o common_a wealth_n as_o these_o man_n have_v frame_v to_o themselves_o a_o church_n they_o verify_v what_o s._n augustine_n object_v against_o certain_a heretic_n you_o sce_n faust_n sce_n lib_n 32._o cont_n faust_n that_o you_o go_v about_o to_o overthrow_v all_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o that_o every_o man_n mind_n may_v be_v to_o himself_o a_o rule_n what_o he_o be_v to_o allow_v or_o disallow_v in_o every_o scripture_n 22._o moreover_o what_o confusion_n to_o the_o church_n what_o danger_n to_o the_o common_a wealth_n this_o denial_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n may_v bring_v i_o leave_v to_o the_o consideration_n of_o any_o judicious_a indifferent_a man_n i_o will_v only_o set_v down_o some_o word_n of_o d._n potter_n who_o speak_v of_o the_o proposition_n of_o reveal_v truth_n sufficient_a to_o prove_v he_o that_o gain_n say_v they_o to_o be_v a_o heretic_n say_v thus_o this_o proposition_n 247_o proposition_n pag._n 247_o of_o reveal_v truth_n be_v not_o by_o the_o infallible_a determination_n of_o pope_n or_o church_n pope_n and_o church_n be_v exclude_v let_v we_o hear_v what_o more_o secure_a rule_n he_o will_v prescribe_v but_o by_o whatsoever_o mean_v a_o man_n may_v be_v convince_v in_o conscience_n of_o divine_a revelation_n if_o a_o preacher_n do_v clear_a any_o point_n of_o faith_n to_o his_o hearer_n if_o a_o private_a christian_a do_v make_v it_o appear_v to_o his_o neighbour_n that_o any_o conclusion_n or_o point_n of_o faith_n be_v deliver_v by_o divine_a revelation_n of_o god_n word_n if_o a_o man_n himself_o without_o any_o teacher_n by_o read_v the_o scripture_n or_o hear_v they_o read_v be_v convince_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o any_o such_o coclusion_n this_o be_v a_o sufficient_a proposition_n to_o prove_v he_o that_o gain_n say_v any_o such_o proof_n to_o be_v a_o heretic_n and_o obstinate_a opposer_n of_o the_o faith_n behold_v what_o goodly_a safe_a propounder_n of_o faith_n arise_v in_o place_n of_o god_n universal_a visible_a church_n which_o must_v yield_v to_o a_o single_a preacher_n a_o neighbour_n a_o man_n himself_o if_o he_o can_v read_v or_o at_o least_o have_v ear_n to_o hear_v scripture_n read_v very_o i_o do_v not_o see_v but_o that_o every_o well_o govern_v civil_a commonwealth_n aught_o to_o concur_v towards_o the_o exterminate_n of_o this_o doctrine_n whereby_o the_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n be_v take_v from_o the_o church_n and_o confer_v upon_o every_o man_n who_o whatsoever_o be_v pretend_v to_o the_o contrary_a may_v be_v a_o passionate_a sedition_n creature_n 23._o moreover_o there_o be_v no_o scripture_n or_o write_v word_n for_o about_o two_o thousand_o year_n from_o adam_n to_o moses_n who_o all_o acknowledge_v to_o have_v be_v the_o first_o author_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n and_o again_o for_o about_o two_o thousand_o year_n more_o from_o moses_n to_o christ_n our_o lord_n holy_a scripture_n be_v only_o among_o the_o people_n of_o israel_n and_o yet_o there_o be_v gentile_n endue_v in_o those_o day_n with_o divine_a faith_n as_o appear_v in_o job_n and_o his_o friend_n wherefore_o during_o so_o many_o age_n the_o church_n alone_o be_v the_o decider_n of_o controversy_n and_o instructor_n of_o the_o faithful_a neither_o do_v the_o word_n write_v by_o moses_n deprive_v that_o church_n of_o her_o former_a infallibility_n or_o other_o quality_n requisite_a for_o a_o judge_n yea_o d._n potter_n acknowledge_v that_o beside_o the_o law_n there_o be_v a_o live_a judge_n in_o the_o jewish_a church_n endue_v with_o a_o absolute_o infallible_a direction_n in_o case_n of_o moment_n as_o all_o point_n belong_v to_o divine_a faith_n be_v now_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n our_o lord_n be_v before_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n which_o be_v not_o write_v instant_o nor_o all_o at_o one_o time_n but_o successive_o upon_o several_a occasion_n and_o some_o after_o the_o decease_n of_o most_o of_o the_o apostle_n &_o after_o they_o be_v write_v they_o be_v not_o present_o know_v to_o all_o church_n and_o of_o some_o there_o be_v doubt_n in_o the_o church_n for_o some_o age_n after_o our_o saviour_n shall_v we_o then_o say_v that_o according_a as_o the_o church_n by_o little_a and_o little_o receive_v holy_a scripture_n she_o be_v by_o the_o like_a degree_n deve_v of_o her_o possess_a infallibility_n and_o power_n to_o decide_v controversy_n in_o religion_n that_o some_o church_n have_v one_o judge_n of_o controversy_n and_o other_o another_o that_o with_o month_n or_o year_n as_o new_a canonical_a scripture_n grow_v to_o be_v publish_v the_o church_n alter_v her_o whole_a rule_n of_o faith_n or_o judge_n of_o controversy_n after_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o after_o the_o write_n of_o scripture_n heresy_n will_v be_v sure_a to_o rise_v require_v in_o god_n church_n for_o their_o discovery_n and_o condemnation_n infallibility_n either_o to_o write_v new_a canonical_a scripture_n as_o be_v do_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n by_o occasion_n of_o emergent_a heresy_n or_o infallibility_n to_o interpret_v scripture_n already_o write_v or_o without_o scripture_n by_o divine_a un_fw-mi write_v tradition_n and_o affistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o determine_v all_o controversy_n as_o tertullian_n say_v the_o soul_n be_v 5._o be_v de_fw-fr test_n antm_fw-la cap._n 5._o before_o the_o letter_n and_o speech_n before_o book_n and_o sense_n before_o stile_n certain_o such_o addition_n of_o scripture_n with_o derogation_n or_o subtraction_n from_o the_o former_a power_n and_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n will_v have_v bring_v to_o the_o world_n division_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o the_o church_n have_v rather_o lose_v then_o
in_o the_o wiekednes_n of_o man_n in_o craftiness_n to_o the_o circumuention_n 4._o circumuention_n ephes_n 4._o of_o error_n all_o which_o word_n seem_v clear_o enough_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n be_v universal_o infallible_a without_o which_o unity_n of_o faith_n can_v not_o be_v conserve_v against_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n and_o yet_o doctor_n potter_n 151.153_o potter_n pag._n 151.153_o limit_n these_o promise_n &_o privilege_n to_o fundamental_a point_n in_o which_o he_o grant_v the_o church_n can_v err_v i_o urge_v the_o word_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v universal_a and_o do_v not_o mention_v any_o such_o restraint_n i_o allege_v that_o most_o reasonable_a and_o receive_v rule_n that_o scripture_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v literal_o as_o it_o sound_v unless_o some_o manifest_a absurdity_n force_v we_o to_o the_o contrary_n but_o all_o will_v not_o serve_v to_o accord_v our_o different_a interpretation_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n diverse_a of_o doctor_n potter_n brethren_n step_v in_o and_o reject_v his_o limitation_n as_o over_o large_a and_o some_o what_o taste_v of_o papistry_n and_o therefore_o they_o restrain_v the_o mention_v text_n either_o to_o the_o infallibility_n which_o the_o apostle_n and_o other_o sacred_a writer_n have_v in_o pen_v of_o scripture_n or_o else_o to_o the_o invisible_a church_n of_o the_o elect_n and_o to_o they_o not_o absolute_o but_o with_o a_o double_a restriction_n that_o they_o shall_v not_o fall_v damnable_o &_o final_o and_o other_o man_n have_v as_o much_o right_n as_o these_o to_o interpose_v their_o opinion_n &_o interpretation_n behold_v we_o be_v three_o at_o debate_n about_o the_o self_n same_o word_n of_o scripture_n we_o confer_v diverse_a place_n and_o text_n we_o consult_v the_o original_n we_o examine_v translation_n we_o endeavour_v to_o pray_v hearty_o we_o profess_v to_o speak_v sincere_o to_o seek_v nothing_o but_o truth_n and_o salvation_n of_o our_o own_o soul_n &_o that_o of_o our_o neighbour_n and_o final_o we_o use_v all_o those_o mean_n which_o by_o protestant_n themselves_n be_v prescribe_v for_o find_v out_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o scripture_n nevertheless_o we_o neither_o do_v or_o have_v any_o possible_a mean_n to_o agree_v as_o long_o as_o we_o be_v leave_v to_o ourselves_o and_o when_o we_o shall_v chance_v to_o be_v agree_v the_o doubt_n will_v still_o remain_v whether_o the_o thing_n itself_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n or_o no_o and_o yet_o it_o be_v great_a impiety_n to_o imagine_v that_o god_n the_o lover_n of_o soul_n have_v leave_v no_o certain_a infallible_a mean_n to_o decide_v both_o this_o and_o all_o other_o difference_n arise_v about_o the_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n or_o upon_o any_o other_o occasion_n our_o remedy_n therefore_o in_o these_o contention_n must_v be_v to_o consult_v and_o hear_v god_n visible_a church_n with_o submissive_a acknowledgement_n of_o her_o power_n and_o infallibility_n in_o whatsoever_o she_o propose_v as_o a_o reveal_v truth_n according_a to_o that_o divine_a advice_n of_o s._n augustine_n in_o these_o word_n if_o at_o length_n 8._o length_n de_fw-fr util_fw-la breed_fw-mi oap_n 8._o thou_o seem_v to_o be_v sufficient_o toss_v and_o have_v a_o desire_n to_o put_v a_o end_n to_o thy_o pain_n follow_v the_o way_n of_o the_o catholic_a discipline_n which_o from_o christ_n himself_o by_o the_o apostle_n have_v come_v down_o even_o to_o we_o and_o from_o we_o shall_v descend_v to_o all_o posterity_n and_o though_o i_o conceive_v that_o the_o distinction_n of_o point_n fundamental_a and_o not_o fundamental_a have_v now_o be_v sufficient_o confute_v yet_o that_o no_o shadow_n of_o difficulty_n may_v remain_v i_o will_v particular_o refel_v a_o common_a say_n of_o protestant_n that_o it_o be_v sufficient_a for_o salvation_n to_o believe_v the_o apostle_n creed_n which_o they_o hold_v to_o be_v a_o summary_n of_o all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n chap._n four_o to_o say_v that_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o point_n necessary_o to_o be_v believe_v be_v neither_o pertinent_a to_o the_o question_n in_o hand_n nor_o in_o itself_o true_a isay_n neither_o pertinent_a nor_o true_a not_o pertinent_a because_o our_o question_n be_v not_o what_o point_n be_v necessary_a to_o be_v explicit_o believe_v but_o what_o point_n may_v be_v lawful_o disbelieve_v or_o reject_v after_o sufficient_a proposition_n that_o they_o be_v divine_a truth_n you_o say_v the_o creed_n contain_v all_o point_n necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v be_v it_o so_o but_o do_v it_o likewise_o contain_v all_o point_n not_o to_o be_v disbelieve_v certain_o it_o do_v nor_o for_o how_o many_o truth_n be_v there_o in_o holy_a scripture_n not_o contain_v in_o the_o creed_n which_o we_o be_v not_o oblige_v distinct_o and_o particular_o to_o know_v &_o believe_v but_o be_v bind_v under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n not_o to_o reject_v as_o soon_o as_o we_o come_v to_o know_v that_o they_o be_v find_v in_o holy_a scripture_n and_o we_o have_v already_o show_v that_o whatsoever_o be_v propose_v by_o god_n church_n as_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n be_v infallible_o a_o truth_n reveal_v by_o god_n it_o follow_v that_o whosoever_o deny_v any_o such_o point_n oppose_v god_n sacred_a testimony_n whether_o that_o point_n be_v contain_v in_o the_o creed_n or_o no._n in_o vain_a then_o be_v your_o care_n employ_v to_o prove_v that_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n necessary_a to_o be_v explicit_o believe_v be_v contain_v in_o the_o creed_n neither_o be_v that_o the_o catalogue_n which_o charity_n mistake_v demand_v his_o demand_n be_v and_o it_o be_v most_o reasonable_a that_o you_o will_v once_o give_v we_o a_o list_n of_o all_o fundamental_o the_o denial_n whereof_o destroy_v salvation_n whereas_o the_o denial_n of_o other_o point_v not_o fundamental_a may_v stand_v with_o salvation_n although_o both_o these_o kind_n of_o point_n be_v equal_o propose_v as_o reveal_v by_o god_n for_o if_o they_o be_v not_o equal_o propose_v the_o difference_n will_v arise_v from_o diversity_n of_o the_o proposal_n and_o not_o of_o the_o matter_n fundamentull_n or_o not_o fundamental_a this_o catalogue_n only_o can_v show_v how_o far_a protestant_n may_v disagree_v without_o breach_n of_o unity_n in_o faith_n and_o upon_o this_o many_o other_o matter_n depend_v according_a to_o the_o ground_n of_o protestant_n but_o you_o will_v never_o adventure_v to_o publish_v such_o a_o catalogue_n i_o say_v more_o you_o can_v assign_v any_o one_o point_n so_o great_a or_o fundamental_a that_o the_o denial_n thereof_o will_v make_v a_o man_n a_o heretic_n if_o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_o propound_v as_o a_o divine_a truth_n nor_o can_v you_o assign_v any_o one_o point_n so_o small_a that_o it_o can_v without_o heresy_n be_v reject_v if_o once_o it_o be_v sufficient_o represent_v as_o reveal_v by_o god_n 2._o nay_o this_o your_o instance_n in_o the_o creed_n be_v not_o only_o impertinent_a but_o direct_o against_o you_o for_o all_o point_n in_o the_o creed_n be_v not_o of_o their_o own_o nature_n fundamental_a as_o i_o show_v 3._o show_v chap._n 3._o n._n 3._o before_o and_o yet_o it_o be_v damnable_a to_o deny_v any_o one_o point_n contain_v in_o the_o creed_n so_o that_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o to_o make_v a_o error_n damnable_a it_o be_v not_o necessary_a that_o the_o matter_n be_v of_o itself_o fundamental_a 3._o moreover_o you_o can_v ground_v any_o certainty_n upon_o the_o creed_n itself_o unless_o first_o you_o presuppose_v that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v universal_o infallible_a and_o consequent_o that_o it_o be_v damnable_a to_o oppose_v her_o declaration_n whether_o they_o concern_v matter_n great_a or_o small_a contain_v or_o not_o contain_v in_o the_o creed_n this_o be_v clear_a because_o we_o must_v receive_v the_o creed_n itself_o upon_o the_o credit_n of_o the_o church_n without_o which_o we_o can_v not_o know_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o thing_n as_o that_o which_o we_o call_v the_o apostle_n creed_n and_o yet_o the_o argument_n whereby_o you_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n be_v ground_v upon_o supposition_n that_o the_o creed_n be_v make_v either_o by_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o or_o by_o the_o 216_o the_o pag._n 216_o church_n of_o their_o time_n from_o they_o which_o thing_n we_o can_v not_o certain_o know_v if_o the_o succeed_a and_o still_o continue_a church_n may_v err_v in_o her_o tradition_n neither_o can_v we_o be_v assure_v whether_o all_o fundamental_a article_n which_o you_o say_v be_v out_o of_o the_o scripture_n sum_v and_o contract_v into_o the_o apostle_n creed_n be_v faithful_o sum_v and_o contract_v and_o not_o one_o pretermit_v alter_v or_o mistake_v unless_o we_o undoubted_o know_v that_o the_o apostle_n compose_v the_o creed_n and_o that_o they_o intend_v to_o contract_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n into_o it_o or_o at_o least_o that_o
sacrament_n which_o belong_v to_o practice_v or_o manner_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o decalogue_n there_o be_v many_o sin_n even_o against_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o light_n of_o reason_n which_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o ten_o commandment_n except_o only_o by_o similitude_n analogy_n reduction_n or_o some_o such_o way_n for_o example_n we_o find_v not_o express_v in_o the_o decalogue_n either_o diverse_a sin_n as_o gluttony_n drunkenness_n pride_n sloth_n covetousness_n in_o desire_v either_o thing_n superfluous_a or_o with_o too_o much_o greediness_n or_o diverse_a of_o our_o chief_a obligation_n as_o obedience_n to_o prince_n and_o all_o superior_n not_o only_o ecclesiastical_a but_o also_o civil_a who_o law_n luther_n melancthon_n caluin_n and_o some_o other_o protestant_n do_v dangerous_o affirm_v not_o to_o oblige_v in_o conscience_n and_o yet_o these_o man_n think_v they_o know_v the_o ten_o commandment_n as_o likewise_o diverse_a protestant_n defend_v usury_n to_o be_v lawful_a and_o the_o many_o treatise_n of_o civilians_n canonist_n and_o casuist_n be_v witness_n that_o diverse_a sin_n against_o the_o light_n of_o reason_n and_o law_n of_o nature_n be_v not_o distinct_o express_v in_o the_o ten_o commandment_n although_o when_o by_o other_o diligence_n they_o be_v find_v to_o be_v unlawful_a they_o may_v be_v reduce_v to_o some_o of_o the_o commandment_n and_o yet_o not_o so_o evident_o and_o particular_o but_o that_o diverse_a do_v it_o in_o diverse_a manner_n 12._o my_o three_o observation_n be_v that_o our_o present_a question_n be_v whether_o or_o no_o the_o creed_n contain_v so_o full_o all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n that_o whosoever_o do_v not_o agree_v in_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o those_o fundamental_a article_n can_v have_v the_o same_o substance_n of_o faith_n nor_o hope_v of_o salvation_n if_o i_o can_v produce_v one_o or_o more_o point_n not_o contain_v in_o the_o creed_n in_o which_o if_o then_o do_v not_o agree_v both_o of_o they_o can_v expect_v to_o be_v save_v i_o shall_v have_v perform_v as_o much_o as_o i_o intend_v and_o d._n potter_n must_v seek_v out_o some_o other_o catalogue_n for_o point_n fundamental_a than_o the_o creed_n neither_o be_v it_o material_a to_o the_o say_a purpose_n whether_o such_o fundamental_a point_n rest_v only_o in_o knowledge_n and_o speculation_n or_o belief_n or_o else_o be_v further_o refer_v to_o work_v and_o practice_v for_o the_o habit_n or_o virtue_n of_o faith_n which_o incline_v and_o enable_v we_o to_o believe_v both_o speculative_a and_o practical_a verity_n be_v of_o one_o and_o the_o self_n same_o nature_n and_o essence_n for_o example_n by_o the_o same_o faith_n whereby_o i_o speculative_o believe_v there_o be_v a_o god_n i_o likewise_o believe_v that_o he_o be_v to_o be_v adore_v serve_v and_o love_v which_o belong_v to_o practice_v the_o reason_n be_v because_o the_o formal_a object_n or_o motive_n for_o which_o i_o yield_v assent_n to_o those_o different_a sort_n of_o material_a object_n be_v the_o same_o in_o both_o to_o wit_n the_o revelation_n or_o word_n of_o god_n where_o by_o the_o way_n i_o note_v that_o if_o the_o unity_n or_o distinction_n and_o nature_n of_o faith_n be_v to_o be_v take_v from_o the_o diversity_n of_o thing_n reveal_v by_o one_o faith_n i_o shall_v believe_v speculative_a verity_n and_o by_o another_o such_o as_o tend_v to_o practice_v which_o i_o doubt_v whether_o d._n potter_n himself_o will_v admit_v 13._o hence_o it_o follow_v that_o whosoever_o deni_v any_o one_o main_a practical_a reveal_v truth_n be_v no_o less_o a_o heretic_n then_o if_o he_o shall_v deny_v a_o point_n rest_v in_o belief_n alone_o so_o that_o when_o d._n potter_n to_o avoid_v our_o argument_n that_o all_o fundamental_a point_n be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o creed_n because_o in_o it_o there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o sacrament_n which_o yet_o be_v point_n of_o so_o main_a importance_n that_o protestant_n make_v the_o due_a administration_n of_o they_o to_o be_v necessary_a &_o essential_a to_o constitute_v a_o church_n answer_v that_o the_o sacrament_n be_v to_o be_v 235._o be_v pag._n 235._o reckon_v rather_o among_o the_o agenda_fw-la of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o credenda_fw-la they_o be_v rather_o divine_a rite_n &_o ceremony_n than_o doctrine_n he_o either_o grant_n what_o we_o affirm_v or_o in_o effect_n say_v of_o two_o kind_n of_o reveal_v truth_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v the_o creed_n contain_v one_o sort_n only_o ergo_fw-la it_o contain_v all_o kind_n of_o reveal_v truth_n necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v our_o question_n be_v not_o de_fw-fr nomine_fw-la but_o re_fw-la not_o what_o be_v call_v point_n of_o faith_n or_o of_o practice_n but_o what_o point_v indeed_o be_v necessary_o to_o be_v believe_v whether_o they_o be_v term_v agenda_fw-la or_o credenda_fw-la especial_o the_o chief_a part_n of_o christian_a perfection_n consist_v more_o in_o action_n then_o in_o barren_a speculation_n in_o good_a work_n then_o bare_a belief_n in_o do_v then_o know_v and_o there_o be_v no_o less_o contention_n concern_v practical_a then_o speculative_a truth_n as_o sacrament_n obtain_v remission_n of_o sin_n invocation_n of_o saint_n prayer_n for_o dead_a adoration_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n &_o many_o other_o all_o which_o do_v so_o much_o the_o more_o import_n as_o on_o they_o beside_o right_a belief_n do_v also_o depend_v our_o practice_n and_o the_o order_n of_o our_o life_n though_o d._n potter_n can_v therefore_o give_v we_o as_o he_o will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o do_v a_o minute_n and_o exact_a catalogue_n of_o all_o truth_n to_o be_v believe_v that_o will_v not_o make_v i_o able_a enough_o to_o know_v whether_o or_o no_o i_o have_v faith_n sufficient_a for_o salvation_n till_o he_o also_o do_v bring_v in_o a_o particular_a list_n of_o all_o believe_v truth_n which_o tend_v to_o practice_v declare_v which_o of_o they_o be_v fundamental_a which_o not_o that_o so_o every_o man_n may_v know_v whether_o he_o be_v not_o in_o some_o damnable_a error_n for_o some_o article_n of_o faith_n which_o further_o may_v give_v influence_n into_o damnable_a work_n 14._o these_o observation_n be_v premise_v i_o come_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o creed_n do_v not_o contain_v all_o point_n of_o faith_n necessary_a to_o be_v know_v &_o believe_v and_o to_o omit_v that_o in_o general_a it_o do_v not_o tell_v we_o what_o point_n be_v fundamental_a or_o not_o fundamental_a which_o in_o the_o way_n of_o protestant_n be_v most_o necessary_a to_o be_v know_v in_o particular_a there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o great_a evil_n from_o which_o man_n calamity_n proceed_v i_o mean_v the_o sin_n of_o the_o angel_n of_o auam_fw-la and_o of_o original_a sin_n in_o we_o not_o of_o the_o great_a good_a from_o which_o we_o expect_v all_o good_a to_o wit_n the_o necessity_n of_o grace_n for_o all_o work_n tend_v to_o piety_n nay_o there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o angel_n good_a or_o bad_a the_o meaning_n of_o that_o most_o general_a head_n oportet_fw-la accedentem_fw-la etc._n etc._n it_o behoove_v 11.6_o behoove_v heb._n 11.6_o he_o that_o come_v to_o god_n to_o believe_v that_o he_o be_v and_o be_v a_o remunerator_n be_v question_v by_o the_o denial_n of_o merit_n which_o make_v god_n a_o giver_n but_o not_o a_o rewarder_n it_o be_v not_o express_v whether_o the_o article_n of_o remission_n of_o sin_n be_v understand_v by_o faith_n alone_o or_o else_o may_v admit_v the_o efficiency_n of_o sacrament_n there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o ecclesiastical_a apostolical_a divine_a tradition_n one_o way_n or_o other_o or_o of_o holy_a scripture_n in_o general_a and_o much_o less_o of_o every_o book_n in_o particular_a nor_o of_o the_o name_n nature_n number_n effect_n matter_n form_n minister_n intention_n necessity_n of_o sacrament_n and_o yet_o the_o due_a administration_n of_o sacrament_n be_v with_o protestant_n a_o essential_a note_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v nothing_o for_o baptism_n of_o child_n nor_o against_o rebaptisation_n there_o be_v no_o mention_n in_o favour_n or_o against_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n of_o power_n in_o the_o church_n to_o institute_v rite_n holy_a day_n etc._n etc._n and_o to_o inflict_v excommunication_n or_o other_o censure_n of_o priesthood_n bishop_n and_o the_o whole_a ecclesiastical_a hierarchy_n which_o be_v very_o fundamental_a point_n of_o s._n peter_n primacy_n which_o to_o caluin_n seem_v a_o fundamental_a error_n nor_o of_o the_o possibility_n or_o impossibility_n to_o keep_v god_n commandment_n of_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n from_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n of_o purgatory_n or_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a in_o any_o sense_n and_o yet_o d._n potter_n do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o aerius_n be_v esteem_v a_o heretic_n for_o deny_v 35._o deny_v pag._n 35._o all_o sort_n
back_o nothing_o with_o your_o gloss_n needful_a for_o our_o salvation_n be_v no_o proof_n unless_o you_o still_o beg_v the_o question_n and_o do_v suppose_v that_o whatsoever_o the_o apostle_n reveal_v to_o the_o church_n be_v contain_v in_o the_o creed_n and_o i_o wonder_v you_o do_v not_o reflect_v that_o those_o word_n be_v by_o s._n paul_n particular_o direct_v to_o pastor_n and_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v clear_a by_o the_o other_o word_n he_o call_v the_o ancient_n of_o the_o church_n and_o afterward_o take_v heed_n to_o yourselves_o and_o to_o the_o whole_a flock_n wherein_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v place_v you_o bishop_n to_o rule_v the_o church_n and_o yourself_o say_v that_o more_o knowledge_n be_v 244_o be_v pag._n 244_o necessary_a in_o bishop_n and_o priest_n to_o who_o be_v commit_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o care_n of_o soul_n then_o in_o vulgar_a laicke_n do_v you_o think_v that_o the_o apostle_n teach_v christian_n nothing_o but_o their_o creed_n say_v they_o nothing_o of_o the_o sacrament_n commandment_n duty_n of_o hope_n charity_n &_o c_o 25._o upon_o the_o same_o affect_a ambiguity_n be_v ground_v your_o other_o objection_n to_o say_v the_o whole_a faith_n of_o those_o time_n 222.223_o time_n pag._n 222.223_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o apoles_n creed_n be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v say_v this_o be_v not_o the_o apostle_n creed_n but_o a_o part_n of_o it_o for_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v not_o all_o one_o with_o that_o which_o we_o common_o call_v their_o creed_n do_v not_o i_o pray_v you_o s._n matthew_n and_o s._n john_n believe_v their_o writing_n to_o be_v canonical_a scripture_n and_o yet_o their_o write_n be_v not_o mention_v in_o the_o creed_n it_o be_v therefore_o more_o than_o clear_a that_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v of_o a_o large_a extent_n than_o the_o apostle_n creed_n 26._o to_o your_o demand_n why_o among_o many_o thing_n of_o equal_a necessity_n to_o be_v believe_v the_o apostle_n shall_v 225._o shall_v pag._n 225._o so_o distinct_o set_v down_o some_o and_o be_v altogether_o silent_a of_o other_o i_o answer_v that_o you_o must_v answer_v your_o own_o demand_n for_o in_o the_o creed_n there_o be_v diverse_a point_n in_o their_o nature_n not_o fundamental_a or_o necessary_a to_o be_v explicit_o and_o distinct_o believe_v as_o above_o we_o show_v why_o be_v these_o point_n which_o be_v not_o fundamental_a express_v rather_o than_o other_o of_o the_o same_o quality_n why_o our_o saviour_n descent_n to_o hell_n &_o burial_n express_v and_o not_o his_o circumcision_n his_o manifestation_n to_o the_o three_o king_n work_v of_o miracle_n &_o c_o why_o do_v they_o not_o express_v scripture_n sacrament_n and_o all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n tend_v to_o practice_v as_o well_o as_o those_o which_o rest_n in_o belief_n their_o intention_n be_v particular_o to_o deliver_v such_o article_n as_o be_v fit_a for_o those_o time_n concern_v the_o deity_n trinity_n and_o messiah_n as_o heretofore_o i_o have_v declare_v leave_v many_o thing_n to_o be_v teach_v by_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o in_o the_o creed_n we_o all_o profess_v to_o believe_v neither_o do_v it_o follow_v as_o you_o infer_v that_o as_o well_o nay_o better_o they_o may_v have_v give_v no_o article_n but_o that_o of_o the_o church_n and_o send_v we_o to_o the_o church_n for_o all_o the_o rest_n for_o in_o set_v down_o other_o beside_o that_o and_o not_o all_o they_o make_v we_o believe_v we_o have_v all_o when_o 223._o when_o pag._n 223._o we_o have_v not_o all_o for_o by_o this_o kind_n of_o argue_v what_o may_v not_o be_v deduce_v one_o may_v quite_o contrary_a to_o your_o inference_n say_v if_o the_o apostle_n creed_n contain_v all_o point_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n what_o need_v we_o any_o church_n to_o teach_v we_o and_o consequent_o what_o need_n of_o the_o article_n concern_v the_o church_n what_o need_v we_o the_o creed_n of_o nice_a constantinople_n etc._n etc._n superfluous_a be_v your_o catechism_n wherein_o beside_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n you_o add_v diverse_a other_o particular_n these_o will_v be_v poor_a consequence_n and_o so_o be_v you_o but_o shall_v i_o tell_v you_o news_n for_o so_o you_o be_v please_v to_o esteem_v it_o we_o grant_v your_o inference_n thus_o far_o that_o our_o saviour_n christ_n refer_v we_o to_o his_o church_n by_o she_o to_o be_v teach_v &_o by_o she_o alone_o for_o she_o be_v before_o the_o creed_n and_o scripture_n and_o she_o to_o discharge_v this_o impose_v office_n of_o instruct_v we_o have_v deliver_v we_o the_o creed_n but_o not_o it_o alone_o as_o if_o nothing_o else_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v we_o have_v beside_o it_o holy_a scripture_n we_o have_v unwritten_a divine_a apostolical_a ecclesiastical_a tradition_n it_o be_v a_o childish_a argument_n the_o creed_n contain_v not_o all_o thing_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o profitable_a or_o the_o church_n alone_o be_v sufficient_a to_o teach_v we_o by_o some_o convenient_a mean_n ergo_fw-la she_o must_v teach_v we_o without_o all_o mean_n without_o creed_n without_o counsel_n without_o scripture_n etc._n etc._n if_o the_o apostle_n have_v express_v no_o article_n but_o that_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n she_o must_v have_v teach_v we_o the_o other_o article_n in_o particular_a by_o creed_n or_o other_o mean_n as_o in_o fact_n we_o have_v even_o the_o apostle_n creed_n from_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n if_o you_o will_v believe_v you_o have_v all_o in_o the_o creed_n when_o you_o have_v not_o all_o it_o be_v not_o the_o apostle_n or_o the_o church_n that_o make_v you_o so_o believe_v but_o it_o be_v your_o own_o error_n whereby_o you_o will_v needs_o believe_v that_o the_o creed_n must_v contain_v all_o for_o neither_o the_o apostle_n nor_o the_o church_n nor_o the_o creed_n itself_o tell_v you_o any_o such_o matter_n and_o what_o necessity_n be_v there_o that_o one_o mean_n of_o instruction_n must_v involve_v whatsoever_o be_v contain_v in_o all_o the_o rest_n we_o be_v not_o to_o recite_v the_o creed_n with_o anticipate_v persuasion_n that_o it_o must_v contain_v what_o we_o imagine_v it_o ought_v for_o better_a maintain_v some_o opinion_n of_o our_o own_o but_o we_o ought_v to_o say_v and_o believe_v that_o it_o contain_v what_o we_o find_v in_o it_o of_o which_o one_o article_n be_v to_o believe_v the_o catholic_a church_n sure_o to_o be_v teach_v by_o she_o which_o presuppose_v that_o we_o need_v other_o instruction_n beside_o the_o creed_n and_o in_o particular_a we_o may_v learn_v of_o she_o what_o point_n be_v contain_v in_o the_o creed_n what_o otherwise_o and_o so_o we_o shall_v not_o be_v deceive_v by_o believe_v we_o have_v all_o in_o the_o creed_n when_o we_o have_v not_o all_o and_o you_o may_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n say_v as_o well_o nay_o better_o the_o apostle_n may_v have_v give_v we_o no_o article_n at_o all_o as_o have_v leave_v out_o article_n tend_v to_o practice_v for_o in_o set_v down_o one_o sort_n of_o article_n &_o not_o the_o other_o they_o make_v we_o believe_v we_o have_v all_o when_o we_o have_v not_o all_o 27_o to_o our_o argument_n that_o baptism_n be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o creed_n d._n potter_n beside_o his_o answer_n that_o sacrament_n belong_v rather_o to_o practice_v then_o faith_n which_o i_o have_v already_o confute_v and_o which_o indeed_o make_v against_o himself_o and_o serve_v only_o to_o show_v that_o the_o apostle_n intend_v not_o to_o comprise_v all_o point_n in_o the_o creed_n which_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o believe_v add_v that_o the_o creed_n of_o 237._o of_o pag._n 237._o nice_a express_v baptism_n by_o name_n confess_v one_o baptism_n for_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n which_o answer_n be_v direct_o against_o himself_o and_o manifest_o prove_v that_o baptism_n be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o apostle_n creed_n neither_o explicitly_a nor_o by_o any_o necessary_a consequence_n from_o other_o article_n express_v therein_o if_o to_o make_v it_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n be_v sufficient_a that_o it_o be_v contain_v in_o in_o the_o nicene_n council_n he_o will_v find_v that_o protestant_n maintain_v many_o error_n against_o faith_n as_o be_v repugnant_a to_o definition_n of_o general_n counsel_n as_o in_o particular_a that_o the_o very_a council_n of_o nice_a which_o say_v m._n whitgift_n 330._o whitgift_n in_o his_o defence_n pag._n 330._o be_v of_o all_o wise_a and_o learned_a man_n reverence_v esteem_v &_o embrace_v next_o unto_o the_o scripture_n themselves_o decree_v that_o to_o those_o who_o be_v choose_v to_o the_o ministry_n unmarried_a it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o take_v any_o wife_n afterward_o be_v affirm_v by_o protestant_n and_o
spirit_n be_v remove_v and_o let_v we_o 3._o we_o cap._n 3._o not_o hear_v these_o thing_n i_o say_v these_o thing_n thou_o say_v but_o let_v we_o hear_v these_o thing_n our_o lord_n say_v and_o what_o be_v our_o word_n 2._o word_n cap._n 2._o wherein_o we_o must_v not_o seek_v she_o etc._n etc._n all_o that_o we_o object_n one_o against_o another_o of_o the_o give_v up_o of_o the_o holy_a book_n of_o the_o sacrifice_a to_o idol_n and_o of_o the_o persecution_n be_v our_o word_n these_o word_n you_o fraudulent_o conceal_v although_o you_o cite_v other_o in_o the_o self_n same_o chapter_n because_o they_o plain_o show_v what_o s._n augustin_n understand_v by_o humane_a testimony_n &_o they_o answer_v all_o your_o objection_n and_o the_o question_n between_o we_o 2._o we_o cap._n 2._o be_v where_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n that_o be_v the_o church_n be_v what_o then_o be_v we_o to_o do_v shall_v we_o seek_v she_o in_o our_o word_n or_o in_o the_o word_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus-chrisnt_a her_o head_n sure_o we_o ought_v rather_o to_o seek_v she_o in_o his_o word_n who_o be_v truth_n and_o best_a know_v his_o own_o body_n and_o let_v this_o head_n 4._o head_n cap._n 4._o of_o which_o we_o agree_v show_v we_o his_o body_n of_o which_o we_o disagree_v that_o our_o dissension_n may_v by_o his_o word_n be_v end_v which_o word_n plain_o declare_v the_o reason_n why_o he_o appeal_v to_o scripture_n because_o both_o part_n agree_v about_o they_o but_o disagree_v concern_v the_o church_n and_o that_o we_o be_v in_o the_o 19_o the_o cap._n 19_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o that_o this_o church_n be_v universal_o spread_v over_o the_o earth_n we_o prove_v not_o by_o our_o doctor_n or_o counsel_n or_o miracle_n but_o by_o the_o divine_a scripture_n the_o scripture_n be_v the_o only_a this_o word_n only_o put_v by_o you_o in_o a_o different_a letter_n as_o if_o it_o be_v s._n augustine_n be_v your_o own_o addition_n document_n and_o foundation_n of_o our_o cause_n these_o be_v the_o place_n by_o you_o allege_v so_o unfaithful_o and_o will_v you_o in_o good_a earnest_n infer_v from_o they_o that_o we_o must_v reject_v all_o counsel_n never_o so_o lawful_a all_o doctor_n never_o so_o orthodox_n all_o miracle_n never_o so_o authentical_a even_o those_o which_o be_v wrought_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n &_o particular_o in_o s._n augustine_n time_n which_o he_o himself_o publish_v 8._o publish_v de_fw-fr civet_n det_fw-la lib._n 22._o çap._n 8._o approve_v and_o admire_v and_o above_o all_o will_v you_o infer_v that_o after_o we_o have_v find_v out_o the_o true_a church_n by_o mark_v set_v down_o in_o scripture_n her_o voice_n for_o other_o particular_a point_n of_o doctrine_n be_v not_o to_o be_v hear_v but_o to_o be_v esteem_v a_o mere_a humane_a testimony_n of_o notary_n etc._n etc._n as_o s._n augustine_n understand_v humane_a testimony_n when_o he_o write_v against_o the_o donatist_n or_o will_v you_o infer_v that_o we_o must_v learn_v from_o scripture_n all_o that_o which_o we_o be_v oblige_v to_o believe_v this_o you_o pretend_v but_o with_o such_o success_n as_o you_o be_v wont_a that_o be_v to_o plead_v for_o your_o adversary_n against_o yourself_o which_o be_v manifest_o prove_v by_o the_o other_o question_n of_o rebaptisation_n controvert_v with_o the_o donatist_n for_o which_o they_o be_v proper_o and_o formal_o heretic_n and_o yet_o s._n augustine_n confess_v that_o for_o this_o point_n of_o belief_n he_o can_v not_o produce_v scripture_n as_o appear_v by_o his_o word_n which_o i_o cite_v in_o the_o first_o 16._o first_o chap._n â—_o num_fw-la 16._o part_n and_o desire_v the_o reader_n to_o save_v i_o the_o labour_n of_o repeat_v they_o here_o and_o then_o he_o will_v easy_o see_v that_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n betwixt_o the_o general_a question_n of_o the_o church_n and_o question_n concern_v particular_a doctrine_n deliver_v by_o the_o church_n in_o which_o this_o holy_a father_n say_v not_o we_o must_v have_v recourse_n to_o scripture_n alone_o but_o that_o we_o ought_v to_o believe_v the_o church_n which_o be_v recommend_v to_o we_o by_o scripture_n and_o this_o he_o teach_v in_o that_o very_a book_n de_fw-fr unitate_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la out_o of_o which_o you_o bring_v the_o aforesaid_a place_n to_o prove_v that_o all_o controversy_n must_v be_v decide_v by_o scripture_n with_o what_o modesty_n then_o do_v you_o say_v the_o mistaker_n be_v ill_o advise_v to_o send_v we_o to_o this_o 33._o this_o pag._n 33._o treatise_n which_o both_o in_o the_o general_a aim_n and_o in_o the_o quality_n of_o the_o argument_n and_o proof_n be_v so_o contrary_a to_o his_o pretension_n 7._o you_o leave_v 33._o leave_v pag._n 33._o a_o passage_n take_v out_o of_o s._n augustine_n to_o charity_n mistake_v to_o ruminate_v upon_o whosoever_o 4._o whosoever_o s._n aug._n de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eççles_n çap._n 4._o will_v believe_v aright_o in_o christ_n the_o head_n but_o yet_o do_v so_o dissent_v from_o his_o body_n the_o church_n that_o their_o communion_n be_v not_o with_o the_o whole_a whersoever_o diffuse_v but_o with_o themselves_o several_a in_o some_o part_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o such_o be_v not_o in_o the_o catholic_a church_n well_o suppose_v all_o be_v do_v as_o you_o desire_v what_o other_o thing_n can_v be_v conclude_v than_o this_o but_o when_o luther_n appear_v protestantisme_n be_v not_o with_o the_o whole_a whersoever_o diffuse_v but_o with_o himself_o alone_o what_o will_v follow_v from_o hence_o you_o have_v so_o much_o logic_n that_o you_o can_v mistake_v wherefore_o at_o this_o day_n and_o for_o ever_o we_o must_v say_v of_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o saint_n augustine_n say_v every_o one_o of_o those_o he_o speak_v of_o heretic_n be_v not_o 3._o not_o de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eççles_n ç._fw-la 3._o to_o be_v find_v where_o she_o be_v to_o be_v find_v but_o she_o who_o be_v over_o all_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o self_n same_o place_n where_o the_o other_o be_v 8._o you_o make_v a_o ill_a choice_n of_o s._n epiphanius_n to_o prove_v by_o his_o example_n that_o the_o father_n be_v wont_a to_o confute_v heresy_n by_o the_o only_a evidence_n of_o scripture_n for_o he_o not_o only_o approve_v tradition_n as_o necessary_a but_o also_o prove_v they_o out_o of_o scripture_n we_o ought_v say_v he_o to_o use_v also_o 61._o also_o haeres_fw-la 61._o tradition_n for_o all_o thing_n can_v be_v take_v from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n the_o holy_a apostle_n therefore_o deliver_v some_o thing_n in_o writing_n and_o some_o thing_n by_o tradition_n as_o the_o holy_a apostle_n say_v as_o i_o deliver_v to_o you_o and_o in_o another_o place_n so_o i_o teach_v and_o so_o i_o deliver_v in_o the_o church_n and_o the_o same_o father_n as_o we_o shall_v see_v anon_o do_v most_o clear_o approve_v tradition_n yea_o and_o confute_v aenrius_n by_o tradition_n alone_o without_o any_o scripture_n it_o be_v then_o no_o wonder_n if_o you_o corrupt_v s._n epiphanius_n to_o make_v man_n believe_v that_o he_o speak_v of_o heresy_n in_o general_a whereas_o his_o word_n concern_v some_o few_o in_o particular_a as_o the_o samosatenian_o arian_n &c._n &c._n his_o word_n as_o you_o translate_v they_o be_v these_o the_o divine_a 65._o divine_a haeres_fw-la 65._o goodness_n have_v forewarn_v we_o against_o heresy_n by_o his_o truth_n for_o god_n foresee_v the_o madness_n impiety_n &_o fraud_n of_o the_o samosatenian_o arian_n manichee_n and_o other_o heretic_n have_v secure_v we_o by_o his_o divine_a word_n against_o all_o their_o subtlety_n but_o the_o true_a translation_n of_o s._n epiphanius_n be_v this_o therefore_o the_o holy_a scripture_n do_v make_v we_o secure_v of_o every_o word_n that_o be_v have_v secure_v we_o how_o we_o be_v to_o speak_v or_o what_o word_n to_o use_v against_o the_o deceit_n of_o the_o samosatenian_o arian_n and_o of_o other_o heresy_n concern_v the_o bless_a trinity_n as_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o these_o word_n immediate_o follow_v which_o you_o think_v fit_a to_o conceal_v for_o he_o do_v not_o say_v the_o father_n be_v the_o only-begotten_a for_o how_o can_v he_o be_v the_o only_o beget_v who_o be_v not_o beget_v but_o he_o call_v the_o son_n the_o only_o beget_v that_o the_o son_n may_v not_o be_v think_v to_o be_v the_o father_n etc._n etc._n where_o you_o see_v he_o speak_v of_o word_n or_o manner_n of_o speak_v and_o concern_v particular_a heresy_n which_o yet_o be_v make_v more_o clear_a by_o the_o word_n immediate_o precedent_a to_o the_o sentence_n by_o you_o cite_v which_o word_n you_o also_o think_v good_a to_o leave_v out_o for_o he_o first_o prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n that_o the_o word_n be_v beget_v of_o the_o father_n but_o that_o the_o father_n be_v not_o beget_v and_o therefore_o the_o only-begotten_a be_v the_o son_n and_o then_o
to_o our_o saviour_n christ_n high_a adoration_n be_v exhibit_v as_o to_o god_n or_o as_o bellarmine_n 9_o bellarmine_n de_fw-fr purg._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 9_o say_v we_o distinguish_v saint_n from_o christ_n because_o we_o offer_v sacrifice_n of_o thanksgiving_a for_o saint_n but_o we_o do_v not_o offer_v sacrifice_n for_o christ_n but_o to_o he_o together_o with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n you_o likewise_o falsify_v s._n epiphanius_n while_o you_o say_v out_o of_o he_o that_o the_o live_a have_v hope_n for_o the_o decease_a as_o for_o those_o which_o be_v from_o home_n in_o another_o country_n and_o that_o at_o length_n they_o shall_v attain_v the_o state_n which_o be_v more_o perfect_a which_o last_o word_n be_v not_o in_o s._n epiphanius_n who_o never_o teach_v that_o we_o offer_v prayer_n for_o saint_n that_o they_o may_v attain_v a_o state_n which_o be_v more_o perfect_a and_o when_o s._n epiphanius_n say_v that_o those_o who_o pray_v for_o their_o brethren_n have_v hope_n of_o they_o as_o of_o those_o who_o be_v in_o another_o country_n you_o leave_v out_o pray_v and_o only_o put_v in_o hope_n and_o that_o you_o may_v be_v assure_v how_o contrary_a s._n epiphanius_n be_v to_o you_o not_o only_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a but_o also_o in_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n for_o which_o he_o belâ—â—ues_v it_o namely_o tradition_n mark_v his_o word_n the_o church_n say_v he_o in_o the_o same_o place_n do_v necessary_o practice_v this_o by_o tradition_n receive_v from_o our_o ancestor_n and_o who_o can_v break_v the_o ordination_n of_o his_o mother_n and_o the_o law_n of_o his_o father_n as_o salomoâ—_n say_v hear_v o_o son_n the_o word_n of_o thy_o father_n and_o retect_v not_o the_o ordination_n of_o thy_o mother_n show_v by_o this_o that_o god_n the_o father_n the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v teach_v both_o by_o writing_n and_o without_o writing_n behold_v divine_a tradition_n and_o our_o mother_n the_o church_n have_v also_o in_o herself_o ordinance_n inviolable_a which_o can_v be_v break_v behold_v ecclesiastical_a tradition_n since_o therefore_o there_o be_v ordinance_n set_v down_o in_o the_o church_n and_o that_o all_o be_v right_a and_o admirable_a this_o seducer_n aërius_n remain_v confute_v and_o together_o with_o he_o all_o those_o that_o follow_v his_o heresy_n and_o let_v we_o yet_o hear_v s._n epiphanius_n speak_v a_o little_a before_o of_o another_o point_n thus_o but_o who_o know_v most_o of_o these_o thing_n whether_o this_o delude_a fellow_n aërius_n who_o be_v yet_o aliuâ—â—_n etc._n etc._n or_o those_o who_o before_o we_o have_v yield_v testimony_n and_o have_v have_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n which_o also_o be_v deliver_v from_o their_o forefather_n as_o they_o likewise_o learn_v of_o those_o who_o be_v before_o they_o in_o which_o manner_n the_o church_n do_v still_o conserve_v the_o true_a faith_n receive_v from_o their_o forefather_n and_o also_o tradition_n consider_v now_o with_o what_o reason_n you_o allege_v s._n epiphanius_n as_o one_o who_o say_v that_o all_o heresy_n be_v to_o be_v confute_v by_o evidence_n of_o scripture_n whereas_o he_o do_v clear_o avouch_v tradition_n in_o general_a and_o do_v in_o particular_a consute_n the_o heresy_n of_o aerius_n without_o allege_v so_o much_o as_o one_o text_n of_o scripture_n 13._o and_o though_o s._n epiphanius_n alone_o may_v suffice_v both_o to_o assure_v we_o what_o be_v the_o heresy_n of_o aërius_n in_o who_o time_n he_o live_v and_o also_o to_o witness_v for_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o greek_a father_n yea_o &_o for_o the_o whole_a church_n because_o he_o avouch_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a to_o come_v from_o the_o tradition_n of_o god_n church_n yet_o i_o will_v add_v some_o more_o of_o the_o greek_a church_n as_o s._n dionysius_n areopagita_n who_o say_v then_o the_o venerable_a 1._o venerable_a eccles_n hierarch_n cap._n 1._o bishop_n do_v pray_v over_o the_o dead_a party_n that_o the_o divine_a goodness_n will_v pardon_v all_o his_o sin_n commit_v by_o humane_a frailty_n and_o transfer_v he_o to_o light_n and_o the_o country_n of_o the_o live_n i_o wonder_v then_o how_o in_o your_o text_n your_o can_v tell_v we_o that_o 37._o that_o pag._n 37._o conformable_o to_o your_o opinion_n the_o ancient_a church_n in_o her_o liturgy_n remember_v all_o those_o that_o sleep_v in_o hope_n of_o the_o resurrection_n of_o everlasting_a life_n and_o particular_o the_o patriarch_n prophet_n apostle_n martyr_n &c._n &c._n beseech_v god_n to_o give_v they_o rest_n and_o to_o bring_v they_o you_o put_v in_o a_o parenthesis_n at_o the_o resurrection_n to_o the_o place_n where_o the_o light_n of_o his_o countenance_n shall_v shine_v upon_o they_o for_o evermore_o and_o in_o your_o margin_n you_o cite_v s._n dionysius_n as_o favour_v you_o who_o nevertheless_o in_o the_o very_a chapter_n which_o you_o cite_v for_o your_o opinion_n be_v direct_o against_o you_o in_o the_o word_n even_o now_o allege_v the_o like_a fincerity_n you_o show_v in_o the_o very_a same_o margin_n in_o cite_v s._n cyril_n who_o do_v clear_o affirm_v that_o in_o the_o sacrifice_n we_o remember_v some_o that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o other_o that_o they_o may_v be_v relieve_v by_o our_o prayer_n and_o sacrifice_n in_o these_o word_n when_o we_o offer_v this_o sacrifice_n 5._o sacrifice_n catech._n 5._o we_o make_v mention_n of_o those_o who_o be_v decease_v of_o patriarch_n etc._n etc._n that_o god_n will_v receyve_v our_o prayer_n by_o their_o intercession_n and_o we_o pray_v for_o all_o who_o be_v decease_v believe_v that_o it_o be_v a_o most_o great_a help_n to_o those_o for_o who_o the_o obsecration_n of_o that_o holy_a and_o dreadful_a sacrifice_n be_v offer_v s._n gregory_n nyssen_n say_v he_o can_v after_o his_o departure_n mortuis_fw-la departure_n in_o orat._n pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la from_o the_o body_n be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o divinity_n unless_o the_o purge_a fire_n shall_v cleanse_v the_o stain_n of_o his_o soul_n 14._o among_o the_o latin_a father_n protestant_n pretend_v to_o esteem_v none_o more_o than_o s._n augustine_n and_o yet_o none_o can_v speak_v more_o plain_o against_o they_o in_o this_o point_n than_o he_o do_v who_o beside_o that_o he_o rank_n aenrius_n among_o the_o heretic_n in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v purge_v i_o 37._o i_o in_o psal_n 37._o in_o this_o life_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o i_o may_v not_o need_v the_o correct_v or_o amend_v fire_n and_o afterward_o it_o be_v say_v he_o shall_v be_v save_v as_o if_o it_o be_v by_o fire_n and_o because_o it_o be_v say_v he_o shall_v be_v save_v that_o fire_n grow_v to_o be_v contemn_v but_o so_o it_o be_v though_o he_o shall_v be_v save_v yet_o the_o pain_n of_o that_o fire_n be_v more_o grievous_a than_o whatsoever_o a_o man_n can_v suffer_v in_o this_o life_n and_o elsw_o where_o some_o suffer_v 13._o suffer_v de_fw-fr civet_n lib._n 21._o c._n 13._o temporal_a punishment_n only_o in_o this_o life_n other_o after_o death_n other_o both_o now_o and_o then_o of_o which_o place_n fulke_n be_v enforce_v to_o say_v augustine_n conclude_v very_o clear_o 110._o clear_o consut_fw-la of_o purg._n pag._n 110._o that_o some_o suffer_v temporal_a pain_n after_o this_o life_n this_o may_v not_o be_v deny_v and_o in_o another_o place_n s._n augustine_n say_v we_o ought_v not_o 34._o not_o de_fw-fr verbis_fw-la apost_n serm_n 34._o to_o doubt_v but_o that_o the_o dead_a be_v holpen_v by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o holy_a church_n and_o by_o the_o wholesome_a sacrifice_n and_o by_o ailrne_n give_v for_o their_o soul_n that_o our_o lord_n will_v avale_fw-mi with_o they_o more_o merciful_o than_o their_o sin_n have_v deserve_v for_o the_o whole_a church_n observe_v this_o as_o deliver_v from_o our_o father_n neither_o can_v you_o avoid_v these_o authority_n by_o fly_v to_o the_o request_n of_o god_n mercy_n that_o they_o may_v have_v their_o 39_o their_o pag._n 39_o serfect_a consummation_n in_o body_n and_o soul_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n at_o the_o last_o judgement_n as_o you_o speak_v for_o beside_o that_o all_o they_o who_o depart_v this_o life_n in_o god_n favour_n be_v most_o assure_v of_o a_o perfect_a consummation_n independant_o of_o our_o almsdeed_n prayer_n &c._n &c._n s._n augustine_n as_o you_o have_v hear_v speak_v of_o a_o purge_v fire_n of_o temporal_a punlishment_n after_o this_o life_n etc._n etc._n and_o do_v elsewhere_o write_v as_o if_o he_o have_v purposely_o intend_v to_o prevent_v this_o your_o evasion_n say_v at_o the_o altar_n joan._n altar_n tract_n 84._o in_o joan._n we_o do_v not_o remember_v martyr_n as_o we_o do_v other_o decease_a who_o rest_n in_o peace_n by_o pray_v for_o they_o but_o rather_o that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o us._n which_o difference_n between_o martyr_n and_o other_o
allege_v in_o your_o margin_n for_o what_o you_o say_v about_o the_o greek_a church_n at_o this_o day_n the_o council_n of_o purgat_fw-la of_o graeeï_n in_o conc._n flor._n ante_fw-la sess_n 1._o in_o quaest_n de_fw-fr purgat_fw-la florence_n whereas_o indeed_o it_o be_v affirm_v in_o the_o council_n that_o declaratum_fw-la fuit_fw-la etc._n etc._n it_o be_v at_o length_n declare_v that_o the_o saint_n have_v both_o attain_v and_o not_o attain_v perfect_a beatitude_n that_o be_v that_o the_o soul_n as_o soul_n have_v attain_v perfect_a beatitude_n yet_o that_o they_o shall_v receive_v some_o perfection_n with_o their_o body_n when_o they_o shall_v shine_v as_o the_o sun_n and_o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o before_o this_o declaration_n be_v make_v the_o greek_a emperor_n come_v into_o the_o council_n and_o so_o it_o be_v do_v with_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o the_o grecian_n 18._o and_o here_o let_v i_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n that_o if_o the_o heresy_n of_o aërius_n whether_o you_o take_v it_o in_o our_o or_o your_o own_o sense_n be_v not_o fundamental_a than_o you_o may_v learn_v that_o to_o make_v a_o heresy_n or_o heretic_n it_o be_v sufficient_a that_o the_o error_n consist_v in_o any_o point_n though_o the_o same_o be_v not_o fundamental_a if_o you_o hold_v it_o to_o be_v fundamental_a than_o it_o follow_v that_o tradition_n and_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n extend_v itself_o even_o to_o fundamental_a point_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o to_o oppose_v such_o tradition_n be_v a_o fundamental_a error_n for_o as_o we_o have_v see_v before_o s._n epiphanius_n and_o s._n augustine_n prove_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a by_o tradition_n though_o i_o grant_v we_o want_v not_o scripture_n for_o it_o but_o you_o who_o both_o deny_v the_o maccabee_n and_o also_o turn_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a into_o a_o bare_a commemoration_n etc._n etc._n will_v find_v no_o scripture_n whereby_o to_o refute_v aërius_n moreover_o whereas_o you_o be_v wont_a to_o impugn_v a_o three_o place_n distinct_a from_o heaven_n and_o hell_n by_o those_o word_n of_o scripture_n if_o the_o tree_n shall_v fall_v to_o the_o south_n 11.3_o south_n ecclesiast_fw-la cap._n 11.3_o or_o the_o north_n in_o what_o place_n soever_o it_o shall_v fall_v there_o shall_v it_o be_v and_o such_o like_a argument_n how_o come_v you_o now_o to_o admit_v a_o three_o temporary_a place_n and_o so_o be_v force_v to_o solve_v your_o own_o objection_n 19_o now_o i_o wish_v you_o to_o consider_v that_o either_o the_o grecian_n do_v believe_v that_o the_o saint_n enjoy_v the_o beatifical_a vision_n &_o be_v not_o as_o you_o teach_v in_o some_o outward_a court_n or_o else_o they_o think_v that_o invocation_n of_o saint_n may_v well_o be_v defend_v though_o they_o do_v not_o see_v the_o face_n of_o god_n which_o two_o point_n you_o 36._o you_o pag._n 36._o deny_v can_v stand_v together_o for_o you_o have_v hear_v both_o out_o of_o the_o greek_a liturgy_n and_o your_o protestant_a writer_n that_o the_o grecian_n believe_v invocation_n of_o saint_n true_a it_o be_v if_o saint_n do_v not_o enjoy_v the_o beatifical_a vision_n they_o can_v hear_v or_o see_v our_o prayer_n in_o verbo_fw-la or_o in_o the_o divine_a essence_n but_o yet_o they_o may_v behold_v we_o and_o our_o prayer_n by_o particular_a revelation_n as_o some_o catholic_a divines_n teach_v de_fw-la facto_fw-la of_o the_o bless_a soul_n and_o angel_n 20._o yet_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o suppose_v that_o invocation_n of_o saint_n can_v be_v defend_v unless_o they_o enjoy_v the_o beatifical_a vision_n you_o shall_v not_o in_o true_a reason_n deny_v invocation_n because_o they_o be_v not_o bless_v but_o contrary_o you_o ought_v to_o believe_v that_o they_o be_v in_o bliss_n because_o it_o have_v always_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n to_o invocate_v they_o nor_o ought_v protestant_n in_o geverall_a to_o deny_v prayer_n to_o saint_n because_o they_o can_v hear_v we_o but_o they_o ought_v on_o the_o other_o side_n to_o believe_v that_o they_o can_v hear_v we_o because_o the_o church_n both_o greek_a and_o latin_a have_v always_o practise_v and_o allow_v prayer_n to_o they_o m._n whitgift_n as_o i_o say_v already_o confess_v that_o almost_o all_o the_o bishop_n and_o writer_n 473._o writer_n in_o his_o defence_n of_o the_o answer_n pag._n 473._o of_o the_o greek_a church_n and_o latin_a also_o for_o the_o most_o part_n be_v spot_v with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o freewill_n of_o merit_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o such_o like_a in_o particular_a the_o saint_n ambrose_n augustine_n hierome_n nazianzen_n basill_n nyssen_n chrysostome_n be_v tax_v by_o your_o brethren_n for_o hold_v invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o your_o conturist_n not_o only_o charge_v ancient_a origen_n for_o pray_v for_o himself_o to_o holy_a job_n but_o they_o also_o say_v that_o there_o be_v manifest_a step_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n in_o the_o doctor_n of_o that_o ancient_a 7_o ancient_a with_fw-mi apol_n prot._n tract_n 1._o sect._n 3._o subd_v 7_o age._n and_o d._n covel_n affirm_v that_o diverse_a both_o of_o the_o greek_a 120._o greek_a in_o his_o examination_n etc._n etc._n pag._n 120._o and_o latin_a church_n be_v spot_v with_o error_n about_o freewill_n merit_n invocation_n of_o saint_n etc._n etc._n that_o vigilantius_n be_v condemn_v as_o a_o heretic_n for_o deny_v prayer_n to_o saint_n may_v be_v see_v in_o 3_o in_o cont._n vigilant_a c._n 2._o &_o 3_o s._n hierome_n and_o be_v confess_v by_o 46._o by_o in_o his_o answer_n to_o a_o counterfeit_v cath._n pag._n 46._o fulke_n thus_o than_o we_o see_v what_o the_o ancient_a church_n hold_v concern_v innocation_n of_o saint_n &_o consequent_o they_o believe_v that_o they_o hear_v our_o prayer_n 21._o your_o say_n that_o we_o invocate_v saint_n as_o commissioner_n 36._o commissioner_n pag._n 36._o under_o god_n to_o who_o he_o have_v delegated_a the_o power_n of_o confer_v sundry_a benefias_n deposit_v in_o their_o hand_n &_o to_o be_v bestow_v at_o their_o pleasure_n i_o let_v pass_v as_o a_o very_a vulgar_a slander_n unworthy_a of_o a_o particular_a answer_n for_o as_o the_o sacred_a council_n of_o trent_n speak_v we_o implore_v 3._o implore_v sess_n 22._o cap._n 3._o their_o assistance_n that_o they_o will_v vouchsafe_v to_o pray_v for_o we_o in_o heaven_n who_o memory_n we_o keep_v on_o earth_n which_o word_n be_v also_o in_o the_o mass_n 22._o but_o how_o solid_o bellarmine_n 6._o bellarmine_n de_fw-fr sanctorum_fw-la beatitud_n lib._n 1._o cap._n 2.3.4_o â—_o 6._o prove_v that_o the_o saint_n enjoy_v the_o sight_n of_o god_n may_v be_v see_v by_o weigh_v his_o argument_n draw_v from_o scripture_n counsel_n father_n both_o greek_a and_o latin_a and_o reason_n ground_v on_o scripture_n and_o your_o affirm_v that_o it_o may_v be_v 35._o be_v pag._n 35._o think_v he_o speak_v against_o his_o knowledge_n &_o conscience_n come_v very_o unreasonable_o beside_o the_o gross_a untruth_n and_o great_a folly_n of_o it_o in_o a_o treatise_n wherein_o you_o tax_v other_o for_o want_n of_o charity_n but_o i_o remember_v that_o s._n thomas_n among_o the_o cause_n of_o suspicion_n put_v the_o first_o of_o they_o to_o proceed_v from_o this_o that_o a_o man_n be_v corp_n be_v 2.2_o q._n 60._o art_n 3._o in_o corp_n ill_o himself_o and_o therefore_o be_v conscious_a of_o his_o own_o sin_n he_o easy_o conceive_v ill_a of_o other_o according_a to_o that_o eccle_n s_o 10._o the_o foolish_a man_n walk_v by_o the_o way_n he_o himself_o be_v foolish_a do_v account_n all_o to_o be_v fool_n do_v your_o prime_a brethren_n speak_v against_o their_o conscience_n who_o affirm_v so_o many_o ancient_a father_n to_o have_v be_v spot_v with_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n which_o you_o say_v can_v stand_v with_o their_o want_n of_o beatitude_n 23._o you_o say_v the_o roman_a writer_n utter_o condemn_v the_o 3â—_n the_o pag._n 3â—_n former_a doctrine_n and_o practice_v of_o antiquity_n one_o of_o they_o fear_v not_o to_o censure_v it_o as_o absurd_a and_o impious_a for_o which_o last_o word_n you_o cite_v in_o your_o vero_fw-la your_o azor._fw-la instit._fw-la moral_a tom_fw-mi 1._o cap._n 20._o lib._n 8._o §_o neque_fw-la vero_fw-la margin_n azor._n but_o it_o be_v a_o egregious_a untruth_n and_o falsification_n for_o we_o do_v both_o admitland_o practise_v thanksgiving_a for_o the_o happiness_n of_o saint_n and_o your_o further_a request_n of_o god_n mercy_n that_o they_o may_v have_v their_o perfect_a consummation_n both_o in_o body_n and_o soul_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n at_o the_o last_o judgement_n be_v whole_o needle_n at_o least_o because_o without_o any_o dependence_n or_o reference_n to_o our_o prayer_n they_o be_v most_o assure_v thereof_o by_o the_o immutable_a decree_n of_o god_n and_o you_o may_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n make_v request_n that_o they_o may_v not_o loose_v their_o
but_o we_o can_v tell_v you_o when_o and_o who_o first_o begin_v to_o oppose_v indulgence_n namely_o the_o waldense_n who_o appear_v about_o the_o year_n 1170._o and_o therefore_o the_o mark_n of_o novelty_n &_o heresy_n must_v fall_v not_o upon_o the_o defender_n but_o the_o impugner_n of_o indulgence_n 12._o you_o say_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n that_o leo_n the_o three_o be_v the_o first_o that_o ever_o canonize_v any_o saint_n as_o before_z pag._n 72._o you_o allege_v out_o of_o he_o that_o the_o worship_n of_o saint_n be_v bring_v into_o the_o church_n rather_o by_o custom_n then_o by_o any_o precept_n and_o in_o your_o margin_n you_o cite_v he_o in_o latin_a saying_n saint_n begin_v to_o be_v uâ—â—_n be_v de_fw-fr saitctorum_fw-la beat_v lib._n 1._o cap._n 8._o §_o uâ—â—_n worship_v in_o the_o universal_a church_n rather_o by_o custom_n then_o by_o precept_n but_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o there_o treat_v in_o general_a of_o worship_n of_o saint_n but_o only_o handle_v the_o question_n cvius_fw-la sit_fw-la etc._n etc._n to_o who_o do_v it_o belong_v to_o canonize_v saint_n and_o prove_v that_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o pope_n to_o canonize_v they_o for_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o not_o for_o some_o particular_a diocese_n alone_o in_o answer_n to_o a_o objection_n that_o there_o be_v many_o worship_v for_o saint_n who_o be_v not_o canonize_v by_o the_o pope_n he_o have_v these_o word_n i_o answer_v that_o the_o ancient_a saint_n begin_v to_o be_v worship_v in_o the_o universal_a church_n not_o so_o much_o by_o any_o law_n as_o by_o custom_n where_o you_o break_v off_o but_o bellarmine_n go_v forward_o and_o say_v but_o as_o other_o custom_n have_v the_o force_n of_o a_o law_n by_o the_o tacit_a consent_v of_o the_o prince_n without_o which_o they_o be_v of_o no_o force_n etc._n etc._n so_o the_o worship_n of_o any_o saint_n general_o introduce_v by_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n have_v force_n from_o the_o tacit_a or_o express_v approbation_n of_o the_o pope_n first_o then_o you_o conceal_v the_o question_n of_o which_o bellarmine_n treat_v second_o you_o leave_v out_o veteres_n ancient_a saint_n and_o say_v only_a saint_n and_o yet_o ancient_n show_v he_o speak_v not_o of_o all_o saint_n but_o of_o some_o who_o be_v not_o express_o canonize_v or_o command_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o saint_n whereas_o diverse_a other_o have_v be_v canonize_v by_o direct_a command_n to_o believe_v that_o they_o be_v happy_a three_o in_o your_o translation_n you_o leave_v out_o universal_a &_o only_o put_v church_n whereas_o bellarmine_n §_o primo_fw-la modo_fw-la express_o teach_v that_o in_o ancient_a time_n every_o bishop_n may_v canonize_v saint_n for_o his_o particular_a diocese_n and_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la they_o do_v command_v some_o feast_n to_o be_v keep_v as_o bellarmine_n prove_v which_o show_v that_o the_o worship_n of_o saint_n be_v hold_v both_o to_o be_v lawful_a and_o be_v to_o some_o particular_a person_n command_v four_o you_o leave_v out_o bellarmine_n word_n that_o the_o worship_n of_o some_o saint_n general_o introduce_v by_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n grow_v to_o have_v the_o force_n of_o a_o law_n or_o precept_n by_o the_o tacit_a or_o express_v approbation_n of_o the_o pope_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o that_o which_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n the_o worship_n and_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v bring_v into_o the_o church_n rather_o by_o custom_n than_o any_o precpt_n and_o now_o to_o come_v to_o your_o former_a objection_n out_o of_o bellarmine_n what_o be_v it_o to_o your_o purpose_n if_o he_o affirm_v that_o leo_n the_o three_o be_v the_o first_o that_o ever_o canonize_v any_o saint_n do_v he_o affirm_v that_o leo_n be_v the_o first_o that_o teach_v worship_n and_o invocation_n of_o saint_n or_o that_o such_o worship_n be_v not_o practise_v by_o custom_n yea_o &_o by_o precept_n before_o his_o time_n as_o we_o have_v seem_v out_o of_o his_o word_n it_o be_v bellarmine_n speak_v only_o of_o such_o form_n and_o solemnity_n of_o canonization_n as_o afterward_o be_v use_v which_o make_v nothing_o for_o your_o purpose_n to_o prove_v that_o our_o doctrine_n of_o worship_n or_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v a_o novelty_n if_o one_o shall_v affirm_v that_o the_o solemnity_n of_o crown_v king_n be_v not_o use_v in_o all_o place_n or_o time_n alike_o shall_v he_o therefore_o deny_v the_o antiquity_n of_o king_n or_o that_o obedience_n be_v due_a to_o they_o you_o may_v see_v not_o only_o the_o error_n but_o the_o danger_n also_o of_o such_o discourse_n 13._o when_o one_o read_v in_o your_o book_n these_o word_n in_o a_o different_a letter_n not_o any_o one_o ancient_a writer_n 78._o writer_n pag._n 78._o reckon_v precise_o seven_o sacrament_n the_o first_o author_n that_o mention_n that_o number_n be_v peter_n lombard_n and_o the_o first_o council_n that_o of_o florence_n and_o in_o your_o margin_n the_o name_n of_o valentia_n and_o bellarmine_n who_o will_v not_o think_v that_o in_o the_o opinion_n of_o these_o author_n no_o ancient_a writer_n before_o lombard_n believe_v that_o there_o be_v seven_o sacrament_n neither_o more_o nor_o few_o which_o be_v most_o untrue_a and_o against_o their_o formal_a word_n &_o express_v intention_n for_o thus_o say_v valentia_n in_o the_o very_a same_o place_n which_o you_o probatur_fw-la you_o tom._n 4._o disp_v 3._o q._n 6._o p._n 2._o §_o tertie_n probatur_fw-la cite_v the_o same_o assertion_n that_o there_o be_v seven_o sacrament_n be_v prove_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o father_n for_o although_o the_o more_o ancient_a writer_n do_v not_o number_v seven_o sacrament_n all_o together_o in_o one_o place_n yet_o it_o may_v be_v easy_o show_v especial_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o s._n augustine_n that_o they_o do_v acknowledge_v every_o one_o of_o these_o ceremony_n to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n thus_o valentia_n in_o general_a and_o then_o he_o prove_v every_o one_o of_o the_o seven_o sacrament_n out_o of_o particular_a place_n of_o s._n augustine_n s._n cyprian_n s._n ambrose_n innocentius_n the_o first_o chrysostome_n bode_n and_o dionysius_n areopagita_n now_o tell_v i_o whether_o valentia_n say_v not_o any_o one_o ancient_a writer_n reckon_v precise_o seven_o sacrament_n do_v he_o not_o prove_v out_o of_o s._n augustine_n every_o one_o of_o the_o seven_o sacrament_n in_o particular_a as_o you_o can_v not_o but_o see_v in_o the_o very_a place_n cite_v by_o you_o be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o say_v not_o any_o one_o ancient_a writer_n reckon_v precise_o seven_o sacrament_n as_o you_o corrupt_v these_o author_n and_o to_o say_v the_o ancient_a writer_n do_v not_o number_v seven_o sacrament_n all_o together_o in_o one_o place_n neither_o be_v your_o falsify_v of_o bellarmine_n less_o remarkable_a who_o have_v say_v that_o the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n and_o ancient_a father_n premise_v this_o observation_n that_o our_o adversary_n ought_v not_o to_o require_v of_o we_o that_o 25._o that_o bellarm._n de_fw-fr sacram._n lib._n 2._o ç._fw-la 25._o we_o show_v in_o scripture_n and_o father_n the_o name_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n for_o neither_o can_v they_o show_v the_o name_n of_o two_o or_o three_o or_o four_o for_o the_o scripture_n and_o father_n do_v not_o write_v a_o catechism_n as_o now_o we_o do_v by_o reason_n of_o the_o multitude_n of_o heresy_n but_o only_o deliver_v the_o thing_n themselves_o in_o diverse_a place_n neither_o be_v this_o proper_a to_o sacrament_n but_o common_a to_o many_o other_o thing_n for_o the_o scripture_n reckon_v the_o miracle_n of_o our_o saviour_n but_o never_o reckon_v how_o many_o there_o be_v it_o deliver_v the_o article_n of_o faith_n but_o never_o say_v how_o many_o they_o be_v the_o apostle_n afterward_o publish_v the_o creed_n of_o twelve_o article_n for_o some_o particular_a cause_n in_o like_a manner_n they_o can_v know_v out_o of_o scripture_n how_o many_o canonical_a break_z there_o be_v but_o counsel_n afterward_o set_v down_o the_o canon_n and_o the_o particular_a number_n which_o they_o have_v learn_v by_o tradition_n and_o afterward_o he_o note_v that_o it_o be_v sufficient_a if_o we_o can_v show_v out_o of_o father_n and_o scripture_n that_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o sacrament_n do_v agree_v neither_o to_o more_o nor_o few_o rite_n than_o seven_o by_o which_o word_n it_o be_v clear_a that_o when_o bellarmine_n say_v lombard_n be_v the_o first_o that_o name_v the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n he_o only_o mean_v as_o he_o explicate_v himself_o of_o the_o name_n of_o seven_o as_o protestant_n will_v not_o find_v in_o all_o antiquity_n the_o name_n of_o two_o sacrament_n so_o that_o from_o the_o word_n of_o valentia_n and_o bellarmine_n as_o they_o be_v indeed_o nothing_o can_v be_v gather_v except_o your_o very_a unconscionable_a deal_v 14._o what_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n
ancient_a time_n priest_n can_v not_o live_v with_o wife_n and_o now_o i_o ask_v whether_o in_o good_a earnest_n you_o believe_v that_o one_o may_v be_v make_v a_o bishop_n who_o will_v not_o believe_v the_o resurrection_n nor_o will_v be_v baptize_v or_o whether_o he_o may_v be_v baptize_v against_o his_o will_n the_o answer_n therefore_o may_v be_v see_v in_o baronius_n who_o spond_n who_o anno_fw-la 410._o n._n 6._o spond_n demonstrate_v out_o of_o the_o epistle_n of_o synesius_n himself_o that_o he_o do_v these_o thing_n not_o to_o be_v make_v a_o bishop_n wish_v as_o he_o affirm_v rather_o to_o die_v then_o to_o endure_v so_o great_a a_o burden_n wherein_o say_v baronius_n he_o seem_v only_o to_o have_v do_v in_o word_n that_o which_o s._n ambrose_n pretend_v in_o deed_n which_o be_v to_o be_v esteem_v incontinent_a and_o unmerciful_a so_o to_o hinder_v his_o be_v make_v bishop_n but_o these_o extraordinary_a proceed_n may_v be_v admire_v but_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v imitate_v to_o say_v that_o the_o ten_o tribe_n notwithstanding_o their_o idolatry_n remain_v still_o a_o true_a church_n can_v but_o make_v any_o christian_a soul_n tremble_v to_o consider_v to_o what_o damnable_a absurdity_n and_o impiety_n they_o fall_v who_o leave_v the_o roman_a church_n you_o falfify_v magallanus_n 3.11_o magallanus_n in_o tit._n 3.11_o as_o if_o he_o with_o m._n hooker_n affirm_v that_o if_o a_o infidel_n 117._o infidel_n pag._n 117._o shall_v pursue_v to_o death_n a_o heretic_n only_o for_o christian_a profession_n sake_n the_o honour_n of_o martyrdom_n can_v not_o be_v deny_v to_o he_o which_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n and_o meaning_n of_o magallanus_n for_o he_o express_o teach_v that_o they_o do_v not_o participate_v of_o the_o grace_n of_o the_o church_n but_o be_v dead_a part_n and_o consequent_o not_o capable_a of_o salvation_n only_o he_o say_v that_o they_o may_v be_v call_v member_n of_o the_o church_n because_o the_o church_n can_v judge_v and_o punish_v they_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o any_o catholic_a author_n shall_v teach_v that_o a_o heretic_n remain_v a_o heretic_n that_o be_v actual_o and_o voluntary_o deny_v a_o reveal_v truth_n sufficient_o propound_v for_o such_o can_v be_v a_o martyr_n but_o such_o as_o you_o be_v may_v affirm_v what_o you_o please_v the_o word_n of_o saluianus_n â—_o saluianus_n de_fw-fr gnbern_n lib._n â—_o which_o you_o cite_v and_o say_v that_o they_o be_v very_o remarkable_a do_v only_o signify_v by_o way_n of_o doubt_n whether_o some_o of_o the_o heretic_n of_o who_o he_o speak_v and_o who_o in_o simplicity_n follow_v their_o teacher_n as_o he_o express_o say_v may_v not_o be_v excuse_v by_o ignorance_n and_o since_o you_o affirm_v that_o he_o speak_v of_o arian_n i_o will_v know_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o think_v arianisme_n to_o be_v a_o damnable_a heresy_n unless_o accidental_o ignorance_n excuse_v some_o particular_a person_n 7._o you_o say_v that_o 131._o that_o pag._n 131._o the_o error_n of_o the_o donatist_n concern_v the_o invalidity_n of_o the_o baptism_n give_v by_o heretic_n and_o of_o the_o novatians_n that_o the_o church_n ought_v not_o to_o absolve_v some_o grievous_a sinner_n be_v not_o in_o themselves_o heretical_a etc._n etc._n neither_o be_v it_o in_o the_o church_n intention_n or_o in_o her_o power_n to_o make_v they_o such_o by_o her_o declaration_n if_o these_o error_n neither_o in_o themselves_o nor_o by_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n be_v heretical_a i_o pray_v you_o how_o be_v they_o heretical_a may_v a_o man_n in_o these_o time_n hold_v they_o without_o note_n of_o heresy_n so_o you_o must_v say_v unless_o you_o grant_v the_o definition_n of_o god_n church_n to_o be_v infallible_a for_o s._n augustine_n profess_v that_o this_o point_n concern_v rebaptisation_n can_v be_v determine_v out_o of_o scripture_n alone_o as_o have_v be_v say_v before_o or_o if_o you_o say_v this_o error_n may_v be_v confute_v out_o of_o scripture_n than_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o heretical_a which_o you_o deny_v but_o no_o wonder_n if_o by_o deny_v the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n you_o be_v bring_v to_o such_o strait_n i_o go_v on_o now_o to_o the_o next_o chap._n v._n in_o this_o section_n you_o handle_v three_o point_n first_o that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a only_o in_o fundamental_a point_n second_o that_o the_o general_n counsel_n and_o three_o that_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v in_o point_n fundamental_a concern_v the_o first_o i_o have_v speak_v in_o the_o first_o part_n the_o second_o and_o three_o be_v particular_a dispute_n from_o which_o you_o ought_v to_o have_v abstain_v if_o you_o have_v mean_v to_o have_v touch_v indeed_o the_o point_n of_o our_o controversy_n but_o since_o you_o will_v needs_o fill_v you_o book_n with_o such_o particular_n i_o must_v also_o go_v out_o of_o the_o way_n to_o answer_v your_o objection_n 2._o if_o i_o take_v pleasure_n as_o you_o do_v to_o fill_v my_o margin_n with_o quotation_n of_o author_n i_o can_v easy_o show_v how_o you_o mistake_v and_o wrong_v our_o schoolman_n as_o if_o they_o hold_v that_o something_o which_o in_o itself_o be_v not_o infinite_a but_o real_o distinct_a from_o the_o divine_a authority_n be_v the_o chief_a motive_n of_o faith_n the_o first_o and_o further_a principle_n into_o which_o it_o resolve_v whereas_o their_o difference_n be_v only_o in_o explicate_v under_o what_o precise_a and_o formal_a consideration_n god_n be_v the_o formal_a object_n of_o faith_n some_o assign_v the_o divinity_n itself_o other_o the_o authority_n of_o god_n command_v other_o which_o be_v the_o common_a opinion_n teach_v that_o it_o be_v resolve_v into_o the_o divine_a or_o prime_a verity_n and_o last_o even_o those_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o call_v unwise_a and_o unwarry_v writer_n against_o luther_n do_v not_o teach_v that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o chief_a first_o and_o further_a principle_n into_o which_o faith_n resolve_v but_o at_o the_o most_o that_o her_o proposition_n be_v necessary_a to_o a_o act_n of_o divine_a faith_n either_o because_o they_o conceyve_v that_o matter_n of_o faith_n ought_v to_o concern_v the_o common_a good_a of_o religion_n and_o so_o require_v a_o public_a authority_n or_o propounder_n or_o else_o because_o they_o hold_v that_o her_o proposition_n in_o some_o sort_n enter_v into_o the_o formal_a object_n of_o faith_n in_o respect_n of_o we_o neither_o be_v the_o author_n of_o this_o opinion_n only_a writer_n against_o luther_n as_o you_o say_v but_o diverse_a other_o schoole-devines_a 3._o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o question_n but_o that_o faith_n be_v supernatural_a in_o regard_n of_o the_o efsicient_a cause_n and_o of_o the_o object_n both_o which_o ought_v to_o be_v supernatural_a it_o seem_v you_o be_v willing_a to_o dissemble_v the_o doctrine_n of_o your_o great_a reformer_n zwinglius_fw-la who_o 159._o who_o tom._n 2._o exposit_n fidei_fw-la christianae_n fol._n 159._o out_o of_o his_o excessive_a charity_n place_v in_o heaven_n hercules_n theseus_n socrates_n aristides_n &c._n &c._n who_o have_v no_o supernatural_a faith_n nor_o belief_n of_o god_n as_o also_o the_o child_n of_o the_o heathen_n die_v without_o 540._o without_o tom._n 2._o fol._n 540._o baptism_n be_v not_o such_o charitable_a man_n very_o fit_a to_o reform_v the_o church_n 4._o you_o fall_v again_o upon_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n which_o point_n i_o have_v already_o answer_v &_o show_v in_o what_o sense_n all_o point_n of_o faith_n may_v be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n to_o wit_n in_o as_o much_o as_o the_o scripture_n do_v recommend_v to_o we_o the_o church_n and_o divine_a unwritten_a tradition_n neither_o can_v you_o allege_v any_o one_o catholic_a author_n ancient_a or_o modern_a who_o speak_v of_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n exclude_v tradition_n by_o which_o even_a scripture_n itself_o be_v deliver_v to_o us._n and_o as_o for_o s._n augustine_n and_o s._n basill_n who_o you_o allege_v for_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n they_o be_v so_o clear_o for_o tradition_n that_o they_o have_v be_v tax_v by_o some_o protestant_n for_o that_o cause_n as_o likewise_o for_o the_o same_o reason_n some_o chief_a protestant_n have_v blame_v clemens_n alexandrinus_n origen_n epiphanius_n ambrose_n hierome_n maximus_n theophilus_n damascene_fw-la chrysostome_n tertullian_n cyprian_n leo_n eusebius_n and_o other_o as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o 22._o in_o tract_n 1._o sect._n 3_o subd_v 22._o brereley_o but_o though_o scripture_n alone_o do_v particular_o contain_v all_o point_n necessary_a to_o saluarion_n do_v it_o follow_v think_v you_o from_o thence_o that_o the_o church_n be_v not_o infallible_a may_v not_o both_o scripture_n and_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o what_o they_o deliver_v do_v not_o yourself_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a for_o point_n fundamental_a and_o for_o
credit_n of_o turk_n or_o infidel_n and_o therefore_o not_o the_o assertion_n of_o bellarmine_n but_o the_o contrary_a to_o it_o be_v a_o plain_a principle_n of_o atheism_n do_v not_o you_o prove_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o perpetual_a visible_a true_a church_n because_o other_o wise_a man_n shall_v want_v that_o ordinary_a mean_n which_o god_n have_v appoint_v for_o our_o instruction_n direction_n &_o salvation_n now_o if_o we_o may_v have_v scripture_n and_o true_a faith_n from_o a_o false_a church_n your_o more_o zealous_a brethren_n who_o deny_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a true_a church_n may_v easy_o answer_v all_o your_o argument_n and_o tell_v you_o that_o a_o true_a church_n be_v not_o necessery_n for_o faith_n and_o salvation_n and_o beside_o be_v it_o not_o in_o effect_n all_o one_o to_o say_v for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v our_o instruction_n christ_n have_v no_o visible_a church_n &_o to_o say_v that_o we_o can_v know_v which_o be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n all_o the_o infallibility_n which_o we_o ascribe_v to_o the_o church_n be_v acknowledge_v to_o proceed_v from_o the_o assistance_n of_o god_n how_o can_v he_o be_v say_v not_o to_o believe_v a_o god_n who_o believe_v the_o church_n because_o she_o be_v assist_v by_o god_n remember_v that_o even_o now_o i_o tell_v you_o that_o according_a to_o your_o own_o affirmation_n the_o church_n be_v the_o ordinary_a mean_n whereby_o divine_a truth_n be_v convey_v to_o the_o understanding_n and_o yet_o you_o think_v yourself_o free_a from_o atheism_n the_o apostle_n of_o themselves_o be_v but_o mortal_a frail_a &_o subject_n to_o error_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o think_v it_o a_o principle_n of_o atheism_n to_o say_v that_o all_o our_o faith_n depend_v on_o they_o 12._o you_o tax_v we_o for_o teach_v that_o much_o of_o the_o matter_n or_o object_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o contain_v in_o scripture_n any_o way_n but_o i_o have_v already_o more_o than_o once_o say_v that_o we_o believe_v nothing_o but_o what_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n in_o some_o sort_n either_o in_o itself_o or_o from_o some_o principle_n from_o which_o it_o may_v be_v certain_o deduce_v or_o in_o those_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o recommend_v the_o church_n &_o unwritten_a tradition_n to_o we_o as_o if_o one_o shall_v in_o his_o last_o testament_n express_v diverse_a particular_n and_o shall_v in_o the_o same_o testament_n refer_v the_o rest_n to_o some_o three_o person_n who_o be_v have_v full_o instruct_v concern_v his_o further_a will_n &_o meaning_n whatsoever_o thing_n be_v perform_v according_a to_o the_o direction_n of_o that_o three_o person_n may_v true_o be_v say_v to_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o testament_n although_o they_o may_v also_o be_v say_v not_o to_o be_v contain_v therein_o because_o they_o be_v not_o mention_v in_o particular_a and_o according_a to_o this_o explication_n canus_n and_o stapleton_n who_o you_o cite_v and_o other_o catholic_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v when_o they_o teach_v that_o we_o believe_v diverse_a thing_n not_o comprehend_v in_o scripture_n 13._o but_o you_o ask_v with_o what_o ingenuity_n 146._o ingenuity_n pag._n 146._o or_o conscience_n do_v they_o pretend_v scripture_n in_o each_o controversy_n against_o we_o since_o by_o their_o own_o confession_n many_o of_o their_o assertion_n be_v mere_a unwritten_a tradition_n lean_v only_o on_o the_o authority_n of_o their_o church_n i_o answer_v that_o some_o point_n of_o faith_n be_v express_o contain_v in_o scripture_n yet_o not_o so_o enforce_o as_o they_o may_v not_o be_v colourable_o elude_v if_o we_o take_v away_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n some_o other_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o scripture_n any_o other_o way_n then_o in_o the_o general_a principle_n of_o the_o church_n authority_n and_o divine_a tradition_n as_o for_o example_n that_o such_o book_n in_o particular_a be_v canonical_a writing_n some_o other_o arâ—_n comprehend_v in_o scripture_n only_o probable_o other_o be_v contain_v so_o clear_o that_o they_o may_v seem_v sufficient_o evident_a to_o a_o man_n not_o perverse_a and_o according_a to_o these_o diversity_n we_o do_v more_o or_o less_o allege_v scripture_n if_o one_o be_v dispose_v to_o use_v such_o argument_n as_o you_o bring_v i_o may_v ask_v on_o the_o other_o side_n to_o what_o purpose_n do_v you_o allege_v counsel_n father_n &_o reason_n if_o out_o of_o scripture_n alone_o you_o can_v convince_v all_o error_n against_o your_o doctrine_n may_v not_o diverse_a argument_n be_v right_o allege_v to_o prove_v the_o self_n same_o conclusion_n 14._o once_o again_o you_o return_v to_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o only_a scripture_n that_o be_v you_o return_v to_o speak_v nothing_o which_o concern_v the_o question_n in_o hand_n which_o you_o prove_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n though_o herein_o say_v you_o as_o not_o seldom_o 14._o seldom_o 〈◊〉_d 14._o contradict_v both_o himseife_n and_o his_o fellow_n how_o consonant_a the_o writing_n of_o bellarmine_n be_v both_o to_o themselves_o and_o to_o the_o common_a doctrine_n of_o other_o catholic_a author_n this_o may_v serve_v for_o a_o sufficient_a proof_n that_o all_o his_o adversary_n can_v never_o show_v yet_o in_o all_o his_o work_n any_o one_o contradiction_n but_o such_o as_o themselves_o have_v first_o forge_v and_o then_o object_v and_o although_o in_o this_o general_a cause_n i_o do_v not_o willing_o meddle_v with_o personal_a thing_n yet_o that_o you_o may_v learn_v hereafter_o to_o speak_v with_o more_o circumspection_n but_o chief_o for_o the_o merit_n of_o a_o person_n so_o eminent_a in_o learning_n and_o dignity_n and_o yet_o more_o eminent_a in_o sanctity_n i_o will_v not_o forbear_v to_o assure_v the_o world_n and_o you_o that_o when_o some_o year_n since_o a_o perion_n of_o high_a authority_n in_o the_o world_n have_v make_v himself_o beneve_v that_o he_o have_v discover_v many_o contradiction_n in_o bellarmine_n d._n dunne_n in_o a_o conference_n that_o he_o have_v with_o a_o person_n of_o honour_n &_o worth_n from_o who_o i_o receive_v it_o though_o i_o hold_v it_o not_o fit_a here_o to_o give_v his_o name_n declare_v that_o there_o be_v no_o ground_n for_o this_o but_o that_o all_o his_o work_n be_v so_o consonant_a and_o coherent_a to_o one_o another_o as_o if_o he_o have_v be_v able_a to_o write_v they_o all_o in_o one_o hour_n space_n and_o if_o you_o d._n potter_n be_v of_o another_o opinion_n you_o shall_v do_v well_o to_o produce_v some_o instance_n to_o the_o contrary_a which_o may_v show_v a_o real_a contradiction_n between_o some_o passage_n and_o some_o other_o of_o his_o work_n wherein_o it_o be_v odds_o that_o you_o will_v be_v answer_v and_o he_o be_v defend_v let_v we_o see_v also_o for_o the_o present_a what_o you_o bring_v to_o make_v good_a your_o asseveration_n the_o cardinal_n say_v you_o grant_v 1â—_n grant_v bellarm._n deverb_v dei_fw-la interpret_v cap._n 10._o ad_fw-la arg_n 1â—_n that_o a_o proposition_n be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la unless_o it_o be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n whatsoever_o god_n 145._o god_n pag._n 145._o reveal_v in_o the_o scripture_n be_v true_a but_o this_o or_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v true_a if_o matter_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n as_o this_o reason_n suppose_v than_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o church_n can_v make_v any_o unwritten_a verity_n to_o become_v matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o to_o salve_v the_o sovereign_a power_n of_o his_o church_n he_o make_v all_o the_o strength_n and_o truth_n in_o this_o syllogism_n to_o depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o consequence_n the_o truth_n of_o the_o conclusion_n which_o ever_o resemble_v the_o weak_a premisse_a so_o as_o if_o this_o be_v true_a there_o be_v no_o truth_n in_o the_o scripture_n or_o in_o our_o religion_n without_o the_o attestation_n of_o the_o church_n but_o now_o how_o many_o corruption_n sleight_n and_o untruth_n be_v couch_v in_o these_o line_n let_v we_o examine_v they_o a_o little_a bellarmine_n have_v teach_v and_o prove_v at_o large_a that_o the_o interpretation_n of_o holy_a scripture_n belong_v not_o to_o private_a person_n but_o to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o in_o respect_n of_o we_o be_v to_o judge_v of_o scripture_n and_o of_o all_o other_o controversy_n in_o religion_n and_o have_v make_v this_o objection_n against_o himself_o if_o our_o faith_n depend_v supra_fw-la depend_v vbi_fw-la supra_fw-la upon_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n than_o it_o depend_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o man_n and_o therefore_o do_v rely_v upon_o a_o most_o weak_a foundation_n he_o give_v this_o answer_n the_o word_n of_o the_o church_n that_o be_v of_o the_o council_n or_o pope_n when_o he_o teach_v as_o out_o of_o his_o chair_n be_v not_o mere_o the_o word_n of_o man_n that_o be_v a_o word_n subject_a to_o error_n
but_o in_o some_o sort_n the_o word_n of_o god_n that_o be_v utter_v by_o the_o assistance_n and_o direction_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n nay_o i_o say_v that_o the_o heretic_n be_v those_o who_o indeed_o lean_a on_o a_o rot_a staff_n and_o then_o he_o come_v to_o the_o word_n which_o you_o cite_v for_o we_o must_v know_v that_o a_o proposition_n of_o faith_n be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n whatsoever_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n be_v true_a god_n have_v reveal_v this_o in_o scripture_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v true_a of_o the_o premise_n in_o this_o syllogism_n the_o first_o be_v most_o certain_a among_o all_o the_o second_o be_v most_o firm_a or_o certain_a among_o catholic_n for_o it_o rely_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n council_n or_o pope_n here_o you_o break_v off_o but_o bellarmine_n add_v of_o which_o we_o have_v in_o holy_a scripture_n manifest_a promise_n that_o they_o can_v err_v act._n 15._o it_o have_v seem_v to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n &_o to_o we_o and_o luke_n 22._o i_o have_v pray_v for_o thou_o that_o thy_o faith_n may_v not_o fail_v but_o among_o heretic_n it_o do_v rely_v only_o upon_o conjecture_n or_o the_o judgement_n of_o one_o own_o spirit_n which_o for_o the_o most_o part_n seem_v good_a and_o be_v ill_a and_o since_o the_o conclusion_n follow_v the_o weak_a part_n it_o necessary_o follow_v that_o the_o whole_a faith_n of_o heretic_n be_v but_o conjectural_a and_o uncertain_a thus_o far_o bellarmine_n and_o now_o wherein_o i_o pray_v you_o consist_v his_o contradict_v both_o himself_o and_o his_o fellow_n perhaps_o you_o mean_v because_o here_o he_o teach_v that_o every_o proposition_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o contradict_v his_o other_o doctrine_n that_o beside_o scripture_n there_o be_v unwritten_a tradition_n but_o the_o vanity_n of_o this_o objection_n will_v by_o and_o by_o appear_v among_o your_o other_o corruption_n which_o now_o i_o set_v down_o first_o you_o see_v bellarmine_n speak_v not_o of_o faith_n in_o general_a but_o only_o of_o matter_n of_o faith_n contain_v in_o scripture_n his_o whole_a question_n be_v about_o the_o interpretation_n thereof_o that_o be_v whether_o we_o be_v to_o rely_v on_o the_o private_a spirit_n or_o humane_a industry_n of_o confer_v place_n etc._n etc._n or_o else_o upon_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o second_o he_o say_v not_o as_o you_o cite_v he_o in_o a_o different_a letter_n by_o way_n of_o a_o universal_a negation_n that_o a_o proposition_n be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la or_o not_o belong_v to_o faith_n unless_o it_o be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n whatsoever_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o the_o scripture_n be_v true_a but_o this_o or_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n &c._n &c._n from_o whence_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o nothing_o at_o all_o can_v be_v believe_v which_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o scripture_n but_o he_o only_o say_v that_o a_o proposition_n of_o faith_n be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n which_o include_v no_o universal_a negation_n but_o be_v mean_v only_o of_o those_o proposition_n of_o faith_n which_o depend_v on_o the_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o his_o discourse_n and_o therefore_o i_o wonder_v why_o you_o shall_v say_v in_o general_n this_o reason_n suppose_v that_o matter_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n for_o to_o teach_v that_o some_o matter_n of_o faith_n be_v in_o scripture_n do_v not_o suppose_v that_o all_o matter_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n and_o yet_o all_o the_o contradiction_n that_o here_o you_o find_v in_o bellarmine_n must_v be_v this_o such_o proposition_n of_o faith_n as_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n whatsoever_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o the_o scripture_n etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la all_o proposition_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n ergo_fw-la there_o be_v no_o unwritten_a tradition_n a_o goodly_a contradiction_n three_o where_o do_v bellarmine_n ever_o teach_v that_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o church_n can_v make_v any_o unwritten_a verity_n to_o become_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o you_o speak_v the_o church_n do_v not_o make_v verity_n to_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o declare_v they_o to_o be_v such_o four_o you_o leave_v out_o the_o word_n which_o clear_o explicate_v in_o what_o sense_n the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v humane_a or_o divine_a by_o which_o your_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o faith_n have_v be_v answer_v and_o your_o fallacy_n discover_v fifih_o bellarmine_n never_o affirm_v as_o you_o say_v he_o do_v that_o the_o strength_n and_o truth_n of_o the_o minor_a in_o the_o say_a syllogism_n depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n but_o only_o that_o it_o be_v most_o certain_a among_o catholic_n by_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n because_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v the_o church_n can_v make_v any_o one_o article_n to_o be_v true_a but_o only_o by_o her_o declaration_n can_v make_v it_o certain_a to_o all_o catholic_n as_o bellarmine_n say_v six_o you_o leave_v out_o bellarmine_n word_n whereby_o he_o prove_v the_o infallibility_n of_o church_n and_o pope_n out_o of_o scripture_n and_o according_o in_o the_o scaventh_n place_n that_o which_o he_o express_o say_v of_o the_o uncertain_a conjectural_a ground_n of_o heretic_n which_o can_v produce_v only_o a_o conjectural_a and_o uncertain_a faith_n because_o the_o conclusion_n follow_v the_o weak_a part_n you_o make_v he_o apply_v to_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n as_o if_o it_o be_v uncertain_a which_o contrary_o in_o the_o word_n by_o you_o omit_v he_o prove_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a &_o infallible_a and_o therefore_o the_o conclusion_n which_o rely_v upon_o a_o proposition_n deliver_v by_o she_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o error_n eight_o you_o return_v to_o the_o slander_n that_o if_o bellarmine_n doctrine_n be_v true_a there_o be_v no_o truth_n in_o the_o scripture_n or_o in_o our_o religion_n without_o the_o attestation_n of_o the_o church_n as_o if_o bellarmine_n have_v teach_v that_o the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n and_o of_o all_o christian_a religion_n depend_v on_o the_o attestation_n of_o the_o church_n which_o can_v not_o in_o you_o proceed_v from_o ignorance_n but_o from_o a_o purpose_n to_o deceive_v your_o reader_n for_o bellarmine_n in_o that_o very_a place_n which_o you_o cite_v declare_v himself_o so_o full_o and_o clear_o that_o you_o can_v be_v excuse_v from_o wilful_a slander_n i_o will_v put_v down_o the_o place_n at_o large_a that_o hereafter_o you_o and_o your_o brethren_n may_v either_o cease_v to_o make_v the_o same_o objection_n or_o else_o endeavour_v to_o confute_v the_o cardinal_n answer_n bellarmine_n then_o make_v this_o objection_n against_o himself_o if_o the_o pope_n judge_v of_o scripture_n it_o follow_v that_o the_o pope_n or_o council_n be_v above_o the_o scripture_n and_o if_o the_o meaning_n of_o scripture_n without_o the_o pope_n or_o council_n be_v not_o authentical_a it_o follow_v that_o the_o word_n of_o god_n take_v his_o force_n and_o strength_n from_o the_o word_n of_o man_n and_o then_o he_o give_v this_o answer_n i_o answer_v that_o this_o argument_n of_o which_o heretic_n make_v great_a account_n consist_v in_o a_o mere_a equivocation_n for_o it_o may_v be_v understand_v two_o manner_n of_o way_n that_o the_o church_n do_v judge_v of_o scripture_n the_o one_o that_o she_o shall_v judge_v whether_o that_o which_o the_o scripture_n teach_v be_v true_a or_o false_a the_o other_o that_o put_v for_o a_o most_o certain_a ground_n that_o the_o word_n of_o scripture_n be_v most_o true_a she_o shall_v judge_v what_o be_v the_o true_a interpretation_n of_o they_o now_o if_o the_o church_n do_v judge_v according_a to_o the_o former_a way_n she_o shall_v indeed_o be_v above_o the_o scripture_n but_o this_o we_o do_v not_o say_v though_o we_o be_v calumniate_v by_o the_o heretic_n as_o if_o we_o do_v who_o every_o where_n cry_v out_o that_o we_o put_v the_o scripture_n under_o the_o pope_n foot_n but_o that_o the_o church_n or_o pope_n do_v judge_v of_o scripture_n in_o the_o latter_a sense_n which_o we_o affirm_v be_v not_o to_o say_v that_o the_o church_n be_v above_o scripture_n but_o above_o the_o sudgment_n of_o private_a person_n for_o the_o church_n do_v not_o judge_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n but_o of_o the_o understanding_n of_o thou_o and_o i_o and_o other_o neither_o do_v the_o word_n of_o god_n receive_v strength_n thereby_o but_o only_o my_o understanding_n receive_v it_o for_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o more_o true_a or_o certain_a because_o it_o be_v so_o expound_v by_o the_o church_n but_o my_o opinion_n
the_o one_o be_v by_o you_o cite_v deliver_v his_o opinion_n in_o the_o person_n of_o his_o disciple_n to_o be_v direct_o for_o the_o infallible_a authority_n of_o counsel_n so_o as_o here_o be_v a_o double_a corruption_n the_o one_o the_o cite_n word_n for_o his_o opinion_n which_o be_v not_o so_o the_o other_o the_o conceal_v those_o which_o be_v his_o and_o direct_o to_o the_o contrary_a clemangis_n his_o work_n be_v forbid_v that_o work_n of_o cusanus_fw-la which_o you_o cathol_n you_o concord_n cathol_n cite_v he_o afterward_o retract_v panormitanus_fw-la in_o the_o place_n electione_n place_n in_o cap._n significasti_fw-la extra_fw-la de_fw-fr electione_n cite_v by_o you_o may_v seem_v to_o speak_v of_o counsel_n disagree_v from_o the_o pope_n and_o though_o he_o say_v that_o if_o the_o council_n err_v it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n shall_v err_v because_o the_o faith_n may_v remain_v in_o other_o yet_o that_o do_v not_o convince_v that_o he_o hold_v a_o general_n council_n together_o with_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v for_o canus_n have_v the_o very_a same_o objection_n and_o answer_n and_o yet_o as_o we_o shall_v see_v anon_o he_o hold_v it_o to_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n that_o general_a counsel_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n can_v err_v nevertheless_o if_o panormitanus_fw-la do_v hold_v that_o general_n counsel_n with_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v he_o can_v only_o be_v excuse_v because_o he_o do_v not_o affirm_v it_o with_o pertinacity_n petrus_n de_fw-fr aliaco_n have_v indeed_o 3._o indeed_o quaest_n in_o vesper_n art_n 3._o the_o word_n which_o you_o cite_v but_o they_o be_v not_o speak_v by_o he_o as_o his_o opinion_n but_o as_o the_o opinion_n of_o some_o other_o &_o so_o he_o have_v also_o the_o clean_a contrary_a proposition_n viz._n that_o a_o general_a council_n can_v err_v nor_o even_o the_o remane_fw-la church_n which_o you_o may_v as_o well_o have_v allege_v for_o his_o opinion_n as_o the_o other_o but_o the_o truth_n be_v that_o neither_o be_v allege_v by_o he_o as_o his_o own_o doctrine_n but_o as_o the_o opinion_n of_o other_o as_o i_o say_v which_o he_o expresl_o say_v that_o he_o do_v forbear_v to_o discuss_v for_o the_o present_a content_v himself_o only_a with_o these_o three_o conclusion_n which_o express_v his_o own_o opinion_n first_o that_o always_o there_o be_v some_o church_n which_o be_v rule_v by_o the_o law_n of_o christ_n which_o according_a to_o his_o former_a explication_n be_v as_o much_o as_o to_o say_v that_o there_o be_v always_o some_o church_n which_o can_v err_v the_o second_o that_o it_o be_v not_o convince_v out_o of_o scripture_n that_o any_o particular_a church_n be_v in_o such_o manner_n conform_v to_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n law_n the_o three_o be_v that_o it_o be_v convince_v out_o of_o scripture_n that_o always_o there_o be_v some_o universal_a church_n which_o never_o swerve_v from_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n neither_o will_v it_o advantage_v you_o that_o he_o teach_v that_o any_o particular_a church_n may_v err_v for_o as_o i_o have_v often_o tell_v you_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o the_o sense_n which_o i_o have_v heretofore_o declare_v be_v all_o one_o with_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o so_o his_o doctrine_n that_o the_o universal_a church_n can_v err_v direct_o prove_v that_o the_o roman_a can_v err_v and_o when_o he_o teach_v that_o the_o universal_a church_n can_v err_v he_o do_v not_o distinguish_v betwixt_o point_n fundamental_a and_o not_o fundamental_a as_o you_o do_v you_o cite_v out_o of_o canus_n these_o word_n i_o confess_v contrà _fw-la confess_v canus_n loc_fw-la lib._n 5._o c._n 5._o §._o at_o contrà _fw-la that_o every_o cenerall_a council_n do_v represent_v the_o whole_a church_n but_o when_o you_o urge_v that_o the_o church_n can_v err_v it_o be_v true_a in_o that_o sense_n in_o which_o faithful_a people_n understand_v it_o which_o be_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n together_o that_o be_v all_o faithful_a people_n do_v not_o err_v but_o this_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n may_v err_v i_o shall_v scarce_o have_v believe_v it_o to_o be_v possible_a for_o any_o man_n alive_a who_o pretend_v to_o have_v credit_n &_o common_a fame_n to_o pervert_v the_o sense_n of_o this_o author_n as_o you_o do_v unless_o i_o do_v see_v with_o my_o own_o eye_n both_o what_o you_o write_v and_o indeed_o what_o canus_n affirm_v for_o in_o the_o chapter_n next_o precedent_n conâ—lusio_fw-la precedent_n cap._n 4._o §._o tertia_fw-la conâ—lusio_fw-la to_o that_o which_o you_o cite_v he_o have_v affirm_v that_o a_o general_n council_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n make_v a_o thing_n certain_a and_o belong_v to_o faith_n in_o respect_n of_o we_o ád_v that_o this_o conclusion_n be_v so_o certain_a that_o the_o contrary_n be_v heretical_a which_o he_o prove_v by_o diverse_a good_a convince_a reason_n and_o among_o the_o rest_n that_o if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v err_v there_o be_v no_o way_n certain_a to_o decide_v controversy_n of_o faith_n and_o in_o the_o place_n which_o you_o cite_v afterward_o he_o impugn_v their_o opinion_n who_o affirm_v that_o a_o general_n council_n be_v infallible_a before_o it_o be_v confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n which_o they_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v because_o the_o council_n represent_v the_o whole_a church_n and_o therefore_o can_v err_v no_o more_o than_o the_o universal_a church_n itself_o to_o which_o argument_n he_o answer_v in_o the_o word_n which_o i_o set_v down_o and_o which_o you_o allege_v to_o prove_v that_o canus_n hold_v a_o general_n council_n may_v err_v namely_o but_o when_o you_o urge_v that_o the_o church_n can_v err_v it_o be_v true_a in_o that_o sense_n in_o which_o faithful_a people_n understand_v it_o which_o be_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n together_o that_o be_v all_o faithful_a people_n do_v not_o err_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o you_o bring_v they_o direct_o against_o his_o word_n and_o meaning_n &_o bring_v the_o objection_n for_o his_o answer_n and_o beside_o what_o we_o have_v already_o relate_v out_o of_o he_o within_o five_o line_n after_o the_o word_n cite_v by_o you_o he_o say_v the_o council_n will_v be_v infallible_a if_o it_o be_v confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o your_o own_o consideration_n what_o judgement_n even_o you_o will_v frame_v of_o any_o other_o beside_o yourself_o if_o he_o shall_v cite_v author_n in_o this_o manner_n 22._o you_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o be_v so_o much_o offend_v that_o we_o equal_a divine_a unwritten_a tradition_n with_o the_o write_a word_n of_o god_n for_o we_o have_v so_o reverend_a a_o opinion_n of_o god_n word_n as_o that_o whersoever_o we_o find_v it_o our_o faith_n believe_v it_o to_o be_v most_o infallible_a nor_o can_v we_o believe_v that_o pen_n ink_n and_o paper_n can_v add_v any_o certainty_n to_o the_o truth_n thereof_o without_o cause_n also_o you_o accuse_v the_o roman_a church_n of_o supine_n negligence_n because_o she_o have_v not_o as_o yet_o give_v a_o catalogue_n of_o unwritten_a tradition_n as_o well_o as_o of_o all_o the_o book_n of_o scripture_n for_o you_o may_v also_o condemn_v the_o ancient_a church_n which_o do_v not_o for_o diverse_a age_n deliver_v any_o catalogue_n of_o canonical_a book_n which_o yet_o afterward_o she_o do_v as_o occasion_v require_v and_o as_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n by_o reason_n of_o your_o heresy_n whereby_o you_o deny_v diverse_a canonical_a book_n of_o scripture_n set_v down_o a_o perfect_a canon_n of_o scripture_n so_o as_o just_a &_o necessary_a occasion_n may_v require_v the_o holy_a ghost_n by_o which_o she_o be_v direct_v will_v not_o fail_v to_o assist_v she_o in_o make_v a_o catalogue_n of_o unwritten_a tradition_n i_o can_v find_v but_o that_o your_o modern_a brethren_n will_v glad_o admit_v of_o some_o apostolical_a tradition_n against_o the_o puritan_n and_o why_o then_o do_v you_o not_o make_v a_o catalogue_n of_o they_o as_o you_o have_v do_v of_o the_o book_n of_o scripture_n your_o famous_a archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n say_v for_o so_o much_o as_o the_o original_a 351_o original_a m._n witgift_n in_o his_o his_o defence_n etc._n etc._n pag._n 351_o &_o beginning_n of_o these_o name_n metropolitan_a archbishop_n etc._n etc._n such_o be_v their_o antiquity_n can_v be_v find_v so_o far_o as_o i_o have_v read_v it_o be_v to_o he_o suppose_v they_o have_v their_o original_a from_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o for_o as_o i_o remember_v s._n augustine_n have_v this_o rule_n in_o his_o 118._o epistle_n and_o in_o proof_n of_o this_o rule_n of_o s._n augustine_n he_o add_v it_o be_v of_o credit_n 352._o credit_n vbi_fw-la sugra_fw-mi pag._n 352._o with_o the_o writer_n of_o our_o time_n namely_o with_o m._n zwinglius_fw-la m._n caluin_n m._n gualther_n and_o sure_o i_o think_v no_o
learned_a man_n do_v dissent_v from_o they_o be_v not_o i_o pray_v you_o these_o and_o the_o like_a tradition_n upon_o which_o your_o hierarchy_n depend_v of_o some_o consequence_n and_o worth_a your_o labour_n to_o put_v they_o in_o a_o catalogue_n or_o do_v you_o not_o hold_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o be_v infallible_a true_a 23._o it_o be_v but_o a_o calumny_n to_o affirm_v that_o 163._o that_o pag._n 163._o we_o receive_v the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n with_o no_o less_o devotion_n than_o the_o holy_a scripture_n for_o you_o cite_v 169._o cite_v pag._n 169._o that_o very_a place_n of_o bellarmine_n where_o he_o 12._o he_o de_fw-fr cont._n l._n 2._o cap._n 12._o set_v down_o at_o large_a five_o singular_a prerogative_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n above_o the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n in_o which_o respect_n your_o fault_n be_v less_o excusable_a it_o be_v your_o own_o doctrine_n that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o all_o fundamental_o and_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o even_o in_o respect_n of_o such_o point_n equal_a her_o authority_n with_o that_o of_o holy_a scripture_n 24._o at_o length_n you_o come_v to_o teach_v that_o general_n counsel_n may_v err_v even_o damnable_o and_o yet_o you_o also_o teach_v that_o their_o authority_n be_v immediate_o 162_o immediate_o pag._n 162_o derive_v from_o christ_n and_o that_o their_o decree_n ibid._n decree_n ibid._n bind_v all_o person_n to_o external_a obedience_n but_o will_v you_o have_v man_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n external_o believe_v themselves_o &_o dissemble_v against_o their_o conscience_n and_o think_v that_o they_o do_v so_o by_o authority_n from_o christ_n the_o truth_n be_v that_o you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v the_o church_n be_v invisible_a as_o to_o say_v that_o her_o infallibility_n consist_v not_o in_o general_n counsel_n but_o in_o this_o that_o every_o member_n of_o the_o church_n can_v err_v damnable_o for_o towards_o the_o effect_n of_o instruct_v man_n in_o doubt_n concern_v faith_n all_o come_v to_o one_o effect_n and_o with_o what_o colour_n of_o truth_n do_v you_o say_v pag._n 164.165_o that_o you_o give_v general_n counsel_n much_o more_o respect_n then_o do_v most_o of_o our_o adversary_n since_o catholic_n believe_v they_o to_o be_v infallible_a which_o you_o deny_v 25._o but_o you_o will_v glad_o prove_v that_o counsel_n be_v fallible_a because_o they_o be_v discursive_a in_o their_o deliberation_n and_o 167._o and_o pag._n 167._o use_v the_o weight_n &_o moment_n of_o reason_n for_o the_o draw_v out_o of_o conclusion_n from_o their_o principle_n wherein_o it_o be_v confess_v they_o may_v mistake_v 26._o it_o be_v true_a we_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n coin_n no_o new_a revelation_n but_o only_o declare_v such_o to_o we_o as_o have_v be_v already_o deliver_v in_o the_o write_v or_o unwritten_a word_n of_o god_n to_o find_v which_o out_o she_o use_v mean_n by_o search_v out_o true_a record_n of_o antiquity_n by_o discuss_v the_o writing_n of_o father_n by_o consult_v the_o holy_a scripture_n tradition_n &c._n &c._n because_o it_o be_v the_o will_n of_o god_n that_o she_o use_v such_o mean_n but_o the_o thing_n upon_o which_o she_o final_o rely_v in_o her_o definition_n ex_fw-la parte_fw-la obiecti_fw-la be_v the_o revelation_n or_o attestation_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o formal_n and_o last_o motine_n of_o faith_n and_o exparte_v subiecti_fw-la in_o behalf_n of_o herself_o she_o rely_v upon_o the_o infallible_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n direct_v she_o not_o to_o propound_v any_o falsehood_n instead_o of_o a_o reveal_v truth_n thus_o we_o read_v in_o the_o first_o council_n act._n 15._o cùm_fw-la magna_fw-la disquisitio_fw-la sieret_fw-la after_o great_a search_n &_o examination_n of_o the_o case_n by_o cite_v scripture_n relate_v miracle_n and_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n declare_v by_o the_o good_a success_n and_o conversion_n of_o so_o many_o gentile_n the_o final_a determination_n do_v not_o rely_v upon_o these_o industry_n but_o visum_fw-la est_fw-la spiritui_fw-la sancto_fw-la &_o nobis_fw-la it_o have_v seem_v to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o we_o which_o word_n express_v both_o the_o formal_a motive_n and_o chief_a efficient_a cause_n of_o faith_n as_o also_o the_o free_a and_o voluntary_a concur_v of_o the_o apostle_n assist_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o out_o of_o these_o diligence_n &_o discourse_n of_o the_o apostle_n infer_v that_o this_o council_n be_v fallible_a or_o that_o there_o be_v no_o more_o certainty_n in_o the_o conclusion_n then_o in_o the_o argument_n themselves_o of_o which_o some_o abstract_v from_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v but_o as_o the_o divines_n speak_v argument_n of_o credibility_n and_o disposition_n to_o faith_n as_o miracle_n etc._n etc._n or_o will_v you_o perhaps_o with_o your_o first_o patriarch_n luther_n reprehend_v even_o this_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o say_v with_o he_o that_o james_n who_o 29._o who_o in_o assert_v art_n 29._o opinion_n the_o whole_a council_n follow_v change_v the_o verdict_n of_o peter_n who_o judgement_n that_o the_o gentile_n shall_v not_o be_v constrain_v to_o observe_v the_o jewish_a ceremonic_n be_v most_o true_a &_o consequent_o the_o opinion_n of_o james_n and_o the_o council_n can_v not_o be_v true_a you_o grant_v as_o i_o must_v often_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_a point_n must_v she_o therefore_o use_v no_o industry_n to_o attain_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o such_o point_n and_o protestant_n who_o hold_v scripture_n to_o be_v the_o only_a rule_n of_o faith_n use_v mean_n of_o confer_v text_n consult_v the_o original_n prayer_n etc._n etc._n for_o attain_v the_o true_a meaning_n of_o scripture_n and_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o grant_v that_o your_o faith_n be_v fallible_a because_o you_o will_v say_v it_o do_v not_o rely_v upon_o those_o say_a fallible_a mean_n but_o final_o as_o you_o apprehend_v it_o rest_v in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o if_o any_o catholic_a author_n equal_v the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n with_o the_o holy_a scripture_n his_o meaning_n be_v that_o both_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o be_v so_o infallible_a that_o they_o can_v deliver_v any_o untruth_n for_o in_o other_o respect_v we_o grant_v many_o singular_a prerogative_n to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n more_o than_o to_o the_o definition_n of_o counsel_n as_o may_v partly_o beseen_v in_o 12._o in_o de_fw-fr conc._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 12._o bellarmine_n 27._o your_o objection_n that_o the_o great_a council_n 170._o council_n pag._n 170._o of_o chalcedon_n correct_v the_o second_o of_o ephesus_n and_o that_o s._n augustine_n say_v provincial_a counsel_n 3._o counsel_n de_fw-fr bapt._n cont_n donat._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 3._o may_v be_v correct_v by_o plenary_a and_o plenary_a counsel_n the_o former_a by_o the_o latter_a have_v be_v answer_v a_o hundred_o time_n and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o you_o have_v read_v bellarmine_n who_o 6._o who_o de_fw-fr couc_n lib._n 1._o cap._n 6._o show_v that_o the_o second_o council_n of_o ephesus_n proceed_v unlawful_o wherein_o s._n flavianus_n bishop_n of_o constantinople_n be_v murder_v by_o the_o faction_n of_o dioscorus_n and_o the_o pope_n legate_n be_v drive_v away_o and_o final_o the_o eutichian_a heresy_n be_v confirm_v for_o which_o cause_v that_o council_n be_v annul_v by_o pope_n leo._n you_o have_v pick_v out_o a_o pretty_a example_n to_o prove_v that_o lawful_a counsel_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v to_o the_o word_n of_o s._n augustine_n bellarmine_n answer_v that_o primò_fw-la that_o de_fw-fr consul_n lib._n 2._o c._n 7._o §._o respondeo_fw-la primò_fw-la either_o they_o be_v understand_v of_o unlawful_a counsel_n such_o as_o be_v the_o second_o of_o ephesus_n or_o else_o they_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o question_n concern_v matter_n of_o fact_n as_o whether_o caecilianus_n have_v deliver_v up_o the_o bible_n or_o final_o that_o latter_a counsel_n may_v be_v say_v to_o correct_v the_o former_a because_o some_o decree_n which_o concern_v manner_n may_v by_o change_n of_o circumstance_n prove_v inconvenient_a although_o in_o the_o beginning_n they_o be_v very_o holy_a and_o fit_a which_o interpretation_n be_v gather_v out_o of_o s._n augustine_n himself_o who_o say_v that_o counsel_n may_v be_v correct_v when_o experience_n do_v manifest_a something_o which_o before_o do_v not_o appear_v now_o experience_n have_v no_o place_n in_o universal_a doctrine_n but_o in_o particular_a fact_n or_o law_n which_o respect_v particular_a circumstance_n of_o time_n and_o place_n etc._n etc._n your_o second_o citation_n in_o your_o margin_n out_o of_o s._n augustine_n maxim_n augustine_n lib._n 3._o count_n maxim_n who_o word_n you_o do_v not_o recite_v bellarmine_n answer_v in_o the_o place_n which_o i_o have_v cite_v
if_o you_o answer_v i_o at_o all_o i_o beseech_v you_o forget_v not_o this_o demand_n and_o whether_o the_o observation_n of_o they_o be_v not_o holy_a and_o forasmuch_o as_o belong_v to_o that_o particular_a object_n a_o perfect_a cbristian_a fast_o and_o meritorious_a in_o that_o sense_n and_o degree_n according_a to_o which_o you_o grant_v that_o other_o work_n be_v meritorious_a or_o deserve_v a_o reward_n for_o the_o other_o part_n of_o your_o objection_n that_o he_o that_o eat_v flesh_n in_o lent_n be_v punish_v with_o a_o more_o grievous_a penance_n than_o he_o that_o blaspheme_v etc._n etc._n you_o show_v how_o modest_a a_o man_n you_o be_v and_o with_o all_o that_o you_o be_v little_o see_v either_o in_o the_o canon_n or_o civil_a law_n for_o the_o civil_a law_n command_v that_o 77._o that_o in_o authentiea_n we_o non_fw-la luxurientur_fw-la homines_fw-la novel_a 77._o blasphemer_n shall_v be_v punish_v with_o death_n because_o say_v the_o law_n hunger_n and_o earthquake_n and_o plague_n come_v by_o reason_n of_o such_o crime_n in_o the_o matediçiâ—â—_n the_o cap._n statuimus_fw-la de_fw-fr matediçiâ—â—_n canon_n law_n blasphemer_n beside_o other_o punishment_n be_v to_o stand_v as_o penitent_n at_o the_o church_n door_n for_o the_o space_n of_o some_o sunday_n and_o for_o some_o friday_n to_o fast_o in_o bread_n &_o water_n etc._n etc._n and_o by_o other_o decree_n of_o pope_n the_o same_o sin_n be_v grievous_o punish_v as_o in_o particular_a the_o council_n of_o lateran_n under_o leo_n the_o 10._o command_n that_o none_o be_v absolve_v from_o blasphemy_n without_o a_o grievous_a penance_n and_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n julius_n iii_o and_o pius_n v._o have_v make_v very_o severe_a decree_n nevertheless_o it_o be_v also_o true_a that_o great_a punishment_n may_v in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la be_v appoint_v for_o some_o sin_n which_o be_v less_o than_o other_o as_o s._n thomas_n do_v 1._o do_v 1.2_o q._n 105._o be_v 2._o ad_fw-la 9_o and_o 2.2_o q._n 39_o art_n 2._o ad_fw-la 1._o true_o affirm_v do_v not_o yourselves_o more_o usual_o punish_v such_o as_o without_o licence_n eat_v flesh_n in_o lent_n then_o they_o who_o take_v the_o name_n of_o god_n in_o vain_a or_o abuse_v themselves_o by_o drunkenness_n or_o wrong_v their_o neighbour_n by_o detraction_n and_o beside_o to_o eat_v flesh_n in_o lent_n may_v be_v a_o act_n of_o heresy_n which_o how_o grievous_a a_o sin_n it_o be_v have_v be_v explicate_v heretofore_o 10._o by_o occasion_n of_o mention_v the_o manichee_n you_o charge_v your_o margin_n as_o your_o fashion_n be_v with_o a_o deep_a piece_n of_o erudition_n that_o the_o name_n forsooth_o of_o their_o founder_n manes_n be_v conform_v to_o the_o greek_a word_n which_o signify_v madness_n but_o if_o we_o delight_v be_v take_v hold_v of_o such_o goodly_a occasion_n of_o vanity_n we_o can_v say_v that_o he_o be_v a_o persian_a and_o his_o name_n be_v first_o cubricus_n which_o he_o change_v into_o name_n which_o in_o the_o babylonian_a tongue_n signify_v 66._o signify_v epiph._n haeres_fw-la 66._o a_o vessel_n but_o let_v we_o leave_v these_o toy_n to_o grammar_n scholar_n 11._o it_o seem_v you_o be_v willing_a of_o set_a purpose_n to_o mistake_v the_o point_n in_o question_n which_o be_v whether_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n or_o no_o about_o which_o charity_n mistake_v have_v instance_a in_o some_o point_n of_o faith_n not_o contain_v in_o the_o creed_n as_o the_o scripture_n and_o sacrament_n he_o add_v these_o word_n beside_o that_o there_o be_v 86.87_o be_v pag._n 86.87_o some_o great_a difference_n between_o they_o mean_v protestant_n and_o we_o about_o the_o understanding_n of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o descent_n of_o christ_n our_o lord_n into_o hell_n and_o that_o other_o of_o the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n and_o that_o also_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n which_o we_o believe_v and_o they_o deny_v to_o involve_v both_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o prayer_n to_o saint_n as_o that_o we_o shall_v not_o be_v much_o better_a either_o for_o our_o know_v or_o confess_v that_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n unless_o withal_o there_o be_v some_o certain_a way_n how_o to_o understand_v they_o aright_o and_o especial_o unless_o under_o the_o article_n which_o concern_v the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n they_o will_v understand_v it_o to_o be_v endue_v with_o so_o perfect_a infallibility_n and_o great_a authority_n as_o that_o it_o may_v teach_v we_o all_o the_o rest_n this_o solid_a discourse_n you_o mangle_v as_o you_o please_v still_o forget_v the_o promise_n you_o make_v in_o your_o preface_n to_o the_o reader_n not_o to_o omit_v any_o one_o thing_n of_o moment_n for_o you_o answer_v not_o a_o word_n to_o his_o particular_a instance_n of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a or_o to_o saint_n nor_o to_o his_o general_a exception_n that_o we_o shall_v not_o be_v much_o better_a for_o know_v that_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n unless_o withal_o there_o be_v some_o way_n of_o understand_v they_o aright_o if_o you_o answer_v that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a or_o to_o saint_n be_v not_o fundamental_a point_n whether_o they_o be_v deny_v or_o affirm_v then_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o you_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o thing_n indifferent_a and_o not_o fundamental_a one_o way_n or_o other_o for_o these_o two_o point_n and_o such_o as_o these_o be_v the_o pretend_a error_n wherewith_o you_o seek_v to_o cloak_n your_o schism_n to_o the_o other_o you_o answer_v the_o church_n of_o england_n 240._o england_n pag._n 240._o question_v not_o the_o sense_n of_o those_o article_n she_o take_v they_o in_o the_o old_a catholic_a sense_n and_o the_o word_n be_v so_o plain_a they_o bear_v their_o meaning_n before_o they_o why_o do_v you_o answer_v to_o these_o two_o point_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o our_o saviour_n descent_n into_o hell_n rather_o than_o to_o the_o other_o which_o charity-mistaken_a do_v mention_n and_o in_o these_o two_o of_o which_o you_o take_v notice_n why_o do_v you_o use_v so_o much_o tergiversation_n why_o do_v you_o not_o plain_o and_o honest_o acquaint_v we_o with_o the_o meaning_n of_o they_o if_o you_o say_v that_o by_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v understand_v a_o church_n always_o visible_a &_o not_o capable_a of_o error_n in_o fundamental_a point_n many_o of_o your_o chief_a brethren_n will_v contradict_v that_o which_o you_o judge_v to_o be_v plain_a and_o your_o church_n of_o england_n speak_v so_o general_o art_n 19_o of_o the_o church_n that_o as_o it_o be_v affirm_v in_o the_o preface_n man_n of_o all_o sort_n may_v take_v that_o article_n to_o be_v for_o they_o and_o as_o for_o the_o other_o article_n of_o our_o saviour_n descent_n if_o it_o beso_fw-es plain_a as_o it_o bear_v the_o sense_n before_o it_o how_o come_v caluin_n to_o understand_v it_o one_o way_n brentius_n another_o beza_n another_o and_o other_o protestant_n in_o another_o different_o from_o catholic_n with_o who_o nevertheless_o some_o other_o protestant_n agree_v who_o teach_v a_o lymbus_n patrum_fw-la as_o lascitius_fw-la oecolampadius_n zwinglius_fw-la peter_n martyr_n bullinger_n and_o 26._o and_o vide_fw-la brereley_o tract_n 3._o sect._n 7._o under_o m._n num_fw-la 26._o bilson_n and_o we_o may_v add_v d._n pottâ—er_n as_o one_o different_a from_o all_o the_o rest_n who_o say_v the_o sense_n be_v plain_a and_o yet_o he_o keep_v it_o to_o himself_o 12._o but_o the_o roman_a doctor_n 2â—â—_n doctor_n pag._n 2â—â—_n can_v agree_v among_o themselves_o about_o this_o article_n be_v there_o any_o catholic_a that_o deny_v lymbus_n patrum_fw-la or_o that_o christ_n descend_v to_o hell_n as_o it_o signify_v lymbus_n yes_o because_o say_v you_o 1._o you_o contr._n 3_o q._n 5._o art_n 1._o stapleton_n affirm_v the_o scripture_n be_v silent_a that_o christ_n descend_v into_o hell_n &_o that_o there_o be_v a_o catholic_a &_o a_o apostolic_a church_n bellarmine_n 12._o bellarmine_n 4._o dâ—_n christo._n cap._n 6._o &_o 12._o on_o the_o contrary_n be_v resolute_a that_o the_o article_n of_o the_o descent_n be_v every_o where_o in_o scripture_n and_o thomas_n grant_v 1._o grant_v 2.2_o q._n 2._o art_n 9_o ad_fw-la 1._o as_o much_o for_o the_o whole_a creed_n what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o disagree_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o chist_n descent_n &_o another_o whether_o that_o doctrine_n which_o they_o believe_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n or_o deliver_v by_o the_o church_n out_o of_o unwritten_a tradition_n among_o protestant_n who_o hold_n scripture_n only_o to_o be_v the_o rule_n of_o faith_n it_o be_v all_o one_o not_o to_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n &_o not_o to_o be_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n but_o not_o so_o with_o catholic_n who_o beside_o scripture_n