Three yeares after the death of Stephen Gardner followed the death of Quéene Mary as is before declared the same day Queene Elizabeth was proclaimed Queene with as many glad hearts of her subiects as euer was any King or Queene in this Realme The next day after the death of Queene Mary Cardinall Poole died and shortly after Christopher Bishop of Chichester and Hopton Bishop of Norwich died and Doctor Weston which was the cheefe Disputer against Cranmer Ridley and Latimer First fell into displeasure with the Cardinall and other Bishops because he would not depart from his Deanerie of Westminster vnto the Monks being remoued from thence he was made Deane of Windsor where being apprehended in aduoutry was by the saâ—d Cardinall put from all his spirituall liuings wherefore he appealed vnto Rome and flying out of the Realme he was taken by the way and clapt into the Tower where he remained vntill Queene Elizabeth was proclaimed then being deliuered he fell sick and died The fifteenth day of Ianuary Queene Elizabeth was crowned with triumphant and honourable entertainment of the Citie of London with such celebritie praâ—ers wishes welcommings cryes tender words Pageants Interlâ—des declâ—mations and verses set vp as the like hath not been seene arguing a wonderfull affection of louing hearts towards their Soueraigne and many Letters gratulatory were sent vnto her Maiestie from sundry forraine places as from Zuricke Geneua Basil Berne Wertenberge Argentine Franckfort c. It pleased the Queens most excellent Maiesty to haue a conuenient chosen number of the best learned of either part to conferre together their opinions and reasons and thereby to come to some good and charitable agreement For the Papists were appointed the Bishops of Winchester Lichfield Chester Carlile Lincolne Doctor Cote Doctor Harpsfield Doctor Langdall and Doctor Chedsey For the Protestants were appointed the Bishop of Chichester Doctor Coxe M. Whitehed M. Grindall M. Horne Doctor Sands M. Gest M. Aelmer M. Iuell The matters which they should talk of follow 1 It is against the word of God and the custome of the auncient Church to vse a tongue vnknowne to the people in Common-prayer and the administration of the Sacraments 2 Euery Church hath authority to appoint take away change ceremonies and Ecclesiasticall Rites so the same be vnto edification 3 It cannot be proued by the word of God that there is in the masse offered by a sacrifice propitiatory for the quick and the dead It was resolued by the Quéens Maiesty with the aduice aforesaid that it should be in writing on both parts and that the Bishops should first declare their mindes touching the matters with their reasons in writing and they on the other part should the same day declare their opinions in like manner and each of them deliuer their writings vnto the other to consider what were to be improued therin and the same also to declare in writing some other day the parties of this conference were to put and reade their assertions in the English tongue before the Nobles and States of the Realme that thereupon in the Court of Parlament consequently following some lawes might be grounded The first méeting was the last of March in Westminster Church the Lords and others of the priuie Councell were present and a great part of the Nobilitie the Bishop of Winchester and his Colleagues alleadged that they had mistakeâ— that their reasons should be written but they were readie to argue and dispute this séemed somwhat strange to the Councell yet it was permitted so Doctor Cole Deane of Paules was appointed the vtterer of their mindes who partly by spéech and partly by reading authorities written and somtimes was informed by his Colleagues what to say made a declaration of their meanings and reasons to the first proposition which being ended they were asked by the Councell if they had any more to say and they said no so the other part was licensed to shew their minde which they exhibited in a booke written which after a prayer made most humbly vnto Almighty God for the induing them with the holy spirit and a protestation to stand to the doctrine of the Catholike Church builded vpon the doctrines of the Prophets and Apostles the effect of the protestation iâ— as here followeth We referre the whole iudgement of the controuersie vnto the holy Scriptures and the Catholike Church of Christ whose iudgement vnto vs ought to be most sacred notwithstanding by the Catholike Church we vnderstand not the Romish Church whereunto our aduersaries attribute such reuerence but that Church which S. Augustine and other fathers affirme ought to be sought in the holy scriptures and which is gouerned and led by the spirit of Christ. It is against the word of God and the custom of the primitiue Church to vse a tongue vnknowne vnto the people in the common prayers and in administration of the Sacraments by the word of God wemeane the written word of God or Canonicall Scriptures and by the custome of the primitiue Church we meane the order most generally vsed in the Church for fiue hundred years after Christ in which time liued Iustine Ireneus Tertullian Cyprian Basill Chrysostome Hierome Ambrose Augustine c. This assertion hath two parts first that it is against the word of God and secondly that it is against the vse of the primitiue Church The first is proued by Saint Paule in 1. Cor. 14. where he intreateth of this matter ex professo purposely and though some say that he there meaneth of preaching and not of prayer it appeareth by the exposition of the best writers that he speaketh of prayer and thanksgiuing and of all other publique actions which require any speach in the Church of prayer he saith I will pray with my spirit and with my vnderstanding and of thanksgiuing he saith Thou giuest thanks wel but the other is not edified and how can the vnlearned say Amen at thy giuing of thankes when hee vnderstandeth not what thou sayest then he concludeth that all things ought to be don to edification and he vseth the similitude of a Trumpet If it giue an vncertaine sound who can prepare to battell so if thou speake with vnknowne tongues you speake in the ayre that is in vaine In the old Testament all things belonging vnto publike prayers benedictions thanksgiuings and sacrifices were alwayes in their naturall tongue if they did so in the shaddowes of the law much more ought we to doe the like S. Augustinâ— in his fourth booke De doctrina Christiana and the tenth Chapter saith If they for whose cause we speake vnderstand not our speaking there is no cause why we should speake The barbarous Heathen of all nations and sorts of men euer made their prayers and sacrifices to their gods in their mother tongue which sheweth that it is the very light and voyce of nature Touching the second part of the assertion that it is against the custome of the primitiue Church it is a matter so
as for the feare of death I do not greatly passe when I behold the amiable countenance of Christ my deare Sauiour the vgly face of death doth not greatly trouble me In the which time she reasoned most comfortably out of Gods word of election and reprobation in the euening before she should die two Priests came to her to heare her confession for they would be sorie they said she should die without it She sent them word she had made her confession vnto Christ at whose handsâ— she was sure to haue forgiuenes of her sins for the cause for which she should die she had no cause to repent but rather to praise God that he made her worthy to suffer death for his word and the absolution that they were able to giue her by the authority of the Pope she defied it Well said the Priests to morrow her stoutnes will be tried All the night she was wonderfull cheerefull and merry About thrée of the clock in the morning Sathan began to stirre himselfe busily questioning with her how she could tell that she was chosen to eternall life and that Christ died for her I grant he died but that hee died for thée how canst thou tell She being troubled with this suggestion they that were about her counsailed her to follow the example of S. Paule to be faithfully perswaded that Christ loued her and gaue himselfe for her for S. Paule was perswaded that Christ loued him and her calling and true beléefe and knowledge of Gods word was a manifest token of Gods loue towards her and the operation of the spirit of God in working in her a loue and a desire to please God by these perswasions and the comfortable promises of Christ brought out of the Scripture Sathan was put to flight and she comforted in Christ. When she came to the stake she prayed to God most instantly to abolish the vile masse at which prayer all the people said Amen then she tooke a cup of drinke that was brought vnto her and drunk vnto all them that vnfainedly loued the Gospell of Christ and wished for the abolishment of papistry a great number of the women of the towne pledged her When the fire was kindled about her she neither strugled nor stirred the Papists had appointed some of theirs to raile vpon her and reuâ—le her openly as she went to execution and whilst she was at the stake amongst others there was an old priest which had writing tables and noted the names of the women which drunke with her and caused Processe to be sent for them but God defended them from the hands of the Tyrants Ralph Alerton Iames Awstoo Margery Awstoo and Richard Roth. ON the 17. of September these foure were burned at Iâ—â—ington néere London Ralph Alerton comming to his parish Church of Bently and séeing the people sitting there idle exhorted them that they would fall to prayer and meditation of Gods word wherevnto they consented after prayer he read vnto them a chapter out of the New Testament and departed In which exercise he continued vntill Candlemas and then being informed that he might not doe so by law because he was no Priest he left off and kept himselfâ— close in his house vntill Easter after he was constrained to forsake his house and liue in woods and such places vntill he was apprehended After his Examination my Lord Darcy sent him vp vnto the Councell who sent him to Boner who tempted him openly to recant at Paules Crosse and set him at liberty which after wrought such a terrour in his conscience but the Lord with his fauourable chastisement did raise him vp againe with Peter giuing him vnfained repentance and a most constant boldnes to professe his name and glorious Gospell Wherefore at the procurement of Thomas Tye Priest hee was apprehended againe and sent to Boner before whom he was diuers times examined which examinations written with his owne hand in bloud for lack of Inke hereafter follow His first Examination Boner AH Sirra how chanceth it that you are come hether againe in this fashion Rafe Forsooth if your Lordship remember I set my hand vnto a writing the Contents thereof as I remember was that I did beléeue all things as the Catholique church teacheth in the which I did not disburse my mind but shamefully dissembled because I made no difference betwixt the true church vntrue Church Boner Which is the true Church doest thou call the heretiques Church the true Church or the Catholiques Church Rafe I vtterly abhorre the hereticks Church as abhominable before God with all their enormities and heresies the Church Catholique is it that I onely imbrace whose doctrine is sincere pure and true Boner By S. Augustine that is well said Then a Priest said to my Lord you know not what Church it is which he calleth Catholick Then hee said by Saint Mary he might a deceiued me Sirra which is the Catholick Church Rafe That which hath receiued the wholesome sound spoken of by Esay Dauid Malachy Paul with many others mâ—e the which sound as it is written hath gone throughout all the earth in euery place and to the end of the world Bon. Yea thou saist true before God for this is the sound that hath gone foorth throughout all Christendome and he that beléeueth not this Church as S. Cyprian saith doth erre Hee saith whosoeuer is out of the Church is like vnto them that are out of Noahs ship when the floud came vpon the whole world for the Church is not alone in Germany or here in England in the time of the late schismes as the hereticks doe affirme for then were Christ a lyar for he promised the holy Ghost should come vnto vs and leade vs in all truth and remaine with vs vnto the end of the world So if we wil take Christ for a true sayer then the way that is taught in France Spaine Flanders Italy Denmarke Scotland and all Christendome ouer must needs be the true Catholick Church Raâ—e I spake of all the world and not of all Christendome onely for the Gospell hath been preached and persecuted in all Nations First in Iury by the Scribes and Pharisies And since by Nero Dioclesian and such like and in our daies by your Lordship knoweth whom your church is no more catholick then was figured by Cain Ieroboam Ahab Iezabel Nabuchadonosor Antiochus Herod with ennumerable more the like and Daniel and Esdras prophesieth of these last daies and that there shall come greeuous wolues to deuoure the flocke is affirmed by Christ and his Apostles Boner Hee is the rankest hereticke that euer came before mee by Alhallowes thou shalt be burned thou whorâ—on varlet and Pricklouse the prophecie is of you what is the saying of Esdras that you speake of Rafe He saith the heate of a great multitude is kindled ouer you and they shall take away certaine of you and feed the Idols with Idols and he that consenteth not to them shall be
to know kéep Gods commandements fearing to offend him and louing to please him hoping stedfastly in his mercy continuing in Charity gladly suffering persecutions by the example of Christ and his Apostles all these haue their names written in the Booke of life The gathering together of these that be aliue is the Church fighting against the fiâ—nd the prosperity of the World and the fleshly lusâ—s and I wil submit my selfe only to the rule and gouernance of them whom after my knowledge I may perceiue by the hauing and vsing of the foresaid vertues to be members of the holy Church These Articles and all other that I ought to beléeue by the word of God I verily beléeue in my Soule and I beleeue that the word of God is sufficient to saluation if I haue erred that I submit my selfe to be â—econciled and I beleeue the authorities of Saints and Doctors as farre as they may be approued by the word of God and no further for any earthly power or dignity Sir I pray shall I lay my hand on the Booke to sweare by it yea said he wherefore else Sir I say a Booke is a thing coupled together of diuers Creatures and Gods and Mans Law is against swearing by any Creature but I will sweare vnto you as I ought by Gods Law but for Charity tell me wherein I shall submit my selfe and wherein you will correct mâ— Bishop I will that you swear to forsake all the opinions of the Sect of Lollards which I shall rehearse after you haue sworne and that you will neither priuily nor openly teach none of them nor fauour none of that opinion but withstand them and them that will not yéeld make knowne to the Byshop of the Diocesse and that thou preach no more vntill I do know that thy hart and mouth accord Thorp If I consent vnto you hereâ—n I should be euery Bishops spy Sommoner of al England yea I should deceiue many persons and be y â— cause of their death bodily and ghostly for many of them that stand now in the truth and are in the way of saluation would rather chuse to forsake the way of truth then to be scorned slandered and punished as Byshops and their Ministers now vse to d ee and I finde not in the Scripture that this office you would now enfeoff me with accordeth to any Priest or Christian therefore to do thus were to me a full noyous band for many trust so mickle in me that I would not doe it to saue my life and they might well account me a Traytor to God and man and that I had faâ—sly and cowardly forsaken the truth and slandered shamefully the Word of GOD If I doe thus for feare of bondcheefe and mischeefe in this life I deeme in my conscience I were worthy to bee cursed of GOD and all his Saints from which keepe me and all Christians Almighty God Bishop Thy heart is full hard indurate as the hart of Pharaoh the Diuell hath blinded thy wits that thou hast no grace to know the truth nor the measure of mercy that I haue proâ—â—ered thee but I say to thee lewd Lossell eyther quickly consent to me or by Saint Thomas thou shalt be disgraded and follow thy fellow â—o Smithfield Thorp I thought with my selfe God did me great grace if of his mercy he would bring me to such an end and my heart was not afraid of his menasing but I considered in him that he was not sorrowfull that he had burned William Santry wrongfully and that he thiâ—steth to shed more innocent blood and I was fast mooued to hold him to be no Priest of God and mine inward Man was departed from him to haue no feare of him and I was right heauy that there was no audience of seculer men by and I prayed the Lord to comfort me against them that were against the sothfastnesse and I purposed to speake no more then my neede behooued All the while I prayed God for his grace to speake with a méeke and easie Spirit and that I might haue authorities of Scriptures or open reason for my words and his Clearks said Why muse you do as my Lord commands you Byshop Hast thou not yet bethought thee whether thou wilt doe as I haue said Thorp My Parents spent mickle Mony about my learning to make me a Priest but I had no will to be a Priest wherefore they were right heauy to mee that I thought to leaue theÌ„ at length I desired that I might go to such as were named wise and of vertuous conuersaâ—ion to haue theâ—â— Councell so I communed with such till I perceiued their honest and charitable workes to passe their fame wherefore 〈◊〉 by the example of the Doctrine of them after my cunning and power I haue exercised me to know perfectly Gods Law hauing a desire to liue thereafter and that others exercised themselues faithfully there abouts Then he sheweth the reasons aforesaid and what would follow if he should forsake so suddenly the learning that he had exercised this 30. winters according to the example of some whose name I wil now recite and according to the present doing of Phillip Rampington now Bishop of Lincolne by Gods grace I will learne by them to fly such slander as thâ—y haue defiled themselues with and as much as is in them they haue enuenomed all the Church of God by their flaunderous reuoking at Paules Crosse and how now Phillip Rampington pursueth Christs people which will not be vnpunished of God Bishop These were fooles and heretickes when they were counted wise of thée and sâ—ch loseâ—s but now they are wise though ye deeme them vnwise Thorpe I thinke they are wise concerning this world I did thinke by their former doings that they had earnest of the wisdome of God and deserued â—â—ckie grace of him to haue saued themselues and many others if they had continued faithfull and in their buâ—â—e fâ—â—itfull sowing of Gods word but woe worth false couetousnesse euill councell and tâ—ranny by which they and many be led blindly to an euill end Bishop Which are those holy and wise men of whom thou hast taken thine information Thorpe Sir master Iohn Wicliffe holden of â—ull many the greatest Clarke then liuing â—usâ—ing rulâ— anâ— innocent in his liuing great men communed oft with him they so loued his learning that they wrote it and bâ—sâ—ly inforced themselues to â—ollow it and his learning is yet holden most agréeable to the learning of Christ and his Apostles and master Iohn Ayston taught and wrote accordingly and vsed himselfe right perfectly to his liues end And sometimes Phillip Rampington Nichols Herford Dauid Gotray of Pakâ—ing and Iohn Puruay and many other which were holden right wise and prodent taught and writ busily his foresaid learning with alâ— these men I was right homely and communed with them but of all other I â—hose to â—ollow Wicliffe himselfe as the most wise and godly man that I heard of or know Some of
to Scotland he was not able to suffer the filthinesse and blindnesse of the Countrey he was accused of Heresie and after disputed constantty with the Cardinall and his Band he confessed Christ to be his onely Aduocate excluding the merits of Saints acknowledged frée â—ustification by the merits of Christ and denied Purgatory At last he was condemned and the same day after dinner burned The King being but a Child by the Testimonie of his bloud hee left the verity oâ— of God fixed in the hearts of many William Tindal in his Apology against Moore maketh mention of Thomas Hitten a preacher at Maidstone in Kent whom the Bishops of Canterbury and Rochester kept long in prison and tormented him with diuers torments yet he continued constant and at the lasâ— they burned him at Maidestone for the constant testimony oâ— Iesus Christ and of his frée grace and saluation Thomas Bilâ—ey of the Uniuerâ—itie of Cambridge a man of excellent constancy Cambridge taking roote in him after long barrennes did begin to flourish He conuerted many of his fellowes to the Gospell amongst whom was Thomas Arthur and Maister Hugh Latimer who was Crosse-kéeper of Cambridge bringing it on procession daies at last he forsooke the Uniuersitie and went to diuers places preaching associated with Arthur the authoritie of Cardinall Woolsey was then great but his pride â—reater which declared the vanity of his life and of the liues of the Bishops and Clergy Bilney with others maruelling at the incredible insolency of the Clergy which they could no longer suffer they began to preach against this dignity and against the Pope Then the Cardinall which did not greatly feare any power of Kings but onelie feared the Gospell of Christ to be preached least it should detect their Hypocrisie and deceits Whereupon he caused the said Bilney and Arthur to bee cast into prison then they were brought before the Cardinall and â— number of Bishops into the Charter-house of Westminster then the Cardinall required of them wherefore they had taught the people the opinions of Luther which are condemned and whether he had not once made an oath not to preach or defend any of Luthers opinions but to impugne the same He said He had made such an Oath but not lawfullie After hee was sworne to make true answere and not to reueale his examinations 1 It was laid against him that he preached though Preachers bee restrained now adaies yet he had warranty by the Word of God where he said Goe iâ—to all the world and preach the Gospell By which authority euery man that hath the gift may preach and the Pope nor any other can make any law to the contrary which he confessed 2 That he said when crosses were set vp against Walls in London that men should not pisse there When there were but few men did reuerence them but when in euerie corner there was a Crosse of necessitie men pissed vppon the Crosses So that when there were but few Lawes in the Church then men were afraid to offend them after ward they made many lawes whereof some are pecuniall as they call them and them they doe obserue those that are not pecuniall they call palea and regard them not To this or the like effect he confessed he spake 3 If I should suffer persecution for the Gospell yet there are seuen thousand more that would preach the Gospell as I doe now therefore good people thinke not much if these tyrants put a man to death for preaching the Gospell This Article he confessed 5 That euery Christian man is a Priest so offer vp sacrifice of prayer and if they murmured against Priesthood they murmured against themselues and that we should not pray to Saints nor worship Images 6 That he should preach at Cambridge that a Bachelor of Diuinity or any other knowing the Gospell should be let from preaching by no man and if any Bishop did accurse them for so doing their curses should returne to themselues All these hee confessed Master Luther did recant and submit himselfe vnto the punishment and iudgement of the Church but these Interrogatories were ministred vnto Master Bilney Whether hee beléeued the assertions of Luther impugned by the Bishop of Rochester were detestable Whether generall Councells and Constitutions where or ought to be obserued of all men euen for conscience whether the Popes Keyes were noâ— profitable or against Gods word whether the Catholikâ— Church may erre or whether it may bee demonstrated or poynted out or else whether it is a spirituall Church knowne to God whether Images of Saints ought to bee worshipped of all true Christianâ— whether a man may beléeue that there is not yet any Iudgement giuen vppon the souâ—es departed whether a man may beléeue that our Lady remained not alwayes a Uirgine whether Holy dayes and fasting dayes may without 〈◊〉 bee broken by any priuate man whether we are bound to be obedient to Bishoppes and Kings as vnto Parents whether the Church doo godly in praying to Saints whether all true Christians bee Priests and haue the Keyes of binding and loosing whether faith may bee without workes and charity whether it is more agreable vnto faith that the people should pray in their owne tongue or in a learned and vnknowne tongue whether children should be taught the Lords prayer without the salutation of the Uirgine whether beades be to be denied or no whether Scriptures ought to bee translated into English or no whether Organs and all maner of songs ought to bee in the Churches whether a Bishoppe haue any Temporall power whether it bee a godly Constitution that no man should preach in an others Dioces without lycence of the Bishop whether vowes of priuate men commeth of the spirit of God whether we should pray for the dead or that there is a Purgatory whether Morall philosophy helpe the vnderstanding of the Scriptures whether the Popes pardons are to be â—eiected whether there may bee any Morall verâ—ues without the gracâ— of Christ whether Saluation and damnation come of necessity and nothing to bee in our owne wills whether Images ought to be taken out of the Churches whether preachers should exhort men to Pilgrimage or to the worshipping of reliques hee in a maner confesseth them all Hee answereth that he did beléeue the assertions of Luther and that men were not bound to beléeue Councells and Constitutions and St. Augustine in his timâ— marnailed that we could liue in safety amongst so many snares of Constitutions when Adam and Eue could not obserue one Fourthly he sayd that the Catholike Church cannot erre in fayth for it is the whole Congregation of the Elect knowne onely to God otherwise no man could be assured of his owne or anothers saluation for it is written no man knoweth whether â—e be worthy of hatred or loue yet I may truely say of the generall Councell congregated by the holy Ghost Behold here the Catholike Church denominating the whole by the most worthy part and hee affirmed
Augustine and all the Fathers of antiquitie doe affirme but in asmuch as the substance of bread and wine is another manner of thing then the substance of the body and bloud of Christ it is plaine there is no Transubstantiation 4 The bread is no more transubstantiated then the wine CHRIST calleth that the fruit of the Uine saying I will drinke no more of the fruit of the Vine Therefore by Christes wordes it was not Bloud but Wine therefore it followeth there is no Transubstantiation Chrysostom vpon Mathew and Cyprian doe confirme this reason 5 The bread is called as well Christs mysticall body as his naturall body for the same spirit that saith the bread is my body saith also wee being many are one body but it is not the mysticall body by transubstantiation no more is it his naturall body by transubstantiation 6 The words ouer the Cup are not so effectuall as to transubstantiate it intâ— the New Testament Therfore the words spoken ouer the bread are not so mighty to make Transubstantiation 7 The Doctrine of Transubstantiation doth not agree with the Apostolick and mother Churches which receiued there Doctrine of the Apostles who receiued it of Christ and Christ of God as of Gréece of Corinthus of Philippos Collosia Thessalonica Ephesus which neuer taught Transubstantiation yea it agreeth not with the Doctrine of the Church of Rome taught in times past for Gelasius the Pope doth manifestly confute the errour of transubstantiation and reproueth them of sacriledge which diuide the mysterie and keep the Cup from the lay people Therefore the Doctrine of transubstantiation agreeth not with the truth Communication betwixt the Archbishop of Yorke and the Bishop of Chichester with BRADFORD in prison York HOw know you the word of God but by the Church Brad. The Church is a meane to bring a man to the more spéedy knowledge of the Scriptures as the woman of Samaria was a meane that the Samaritaâ—s knew Christ but when as they had heard him speake they said now wee know that he is Christ not because of thy words but because we our selues haue heard him so after we come to the hearing and reading of the Scriptures shewed vnto vs by the Church we beleeue them and know them as Christs sheepe not because the Church saith they be the Scriptures but because they be so wee being assured thereof by the spirit which wrote and spake them Yorke In the Apostles time the word was not written Brad. True if you meane it for some bookes of the New Testament but for the Old Testament Peter telleth vs it is a more sure word of Prophesie not that it is so simply but in respect of the Apostles which being aliue and compassed with infirmities by reason whereof men might perchance haue found fault with their preaching they attributed vnto the Prophets more firmenes as wherewith no fault could be â—â—und albeit in verity no lesse obedience and faith ought to be giuen vnto the one then the other both proceeding of one Spirit of truth York Ireneus and others doe magnifie much and alledge the Câ—urch and not the Scriptures against the heretickes Brad. They had to doe with such-hereticks as did deny the Scriptures and yâ—t did magnifie the Apostles so that they were inforced to vse the authoritie of those Churches wherein the Apostles had taught and which did still retaine the same Doctrine then the alledging of the Church cannot be principally vsed against me which am so farre from denying the Scriptures that I appeale vnto them vtterly as to the onely Iudge Yorke A pretty matter that you will take vpon to Iudge the Church where hath your Church been hitherto for the Church of Christ is Catholick and visible hitherto Brad. I doe not Iudge the Church when I discerne it from the congregation which is not the Church and I neuer denied the Church to bâ— Catholick and viâ—â—ble although at some times it is more visible then at other times Chichest Where was your Church forty yeares agone which allowed your Doctrine I said I would tell him if he would tell mee where the Church was in Helias his time when Helias said he was left alone he said that is no answere Brad. If you had the same eyes wherewith a man might haue espied the Church then you would not say it was no answer The fault why the Church is not sâ—â—ne of you is not because the Church is not visible but because your eyes are not cléere â—â—ough to sée it Chich. You are much deceiued in making this collation betwixt the Church then and now Yorke said it was very well spoken for Christ said I will build my Church and not I do or haue built it Brad. Peter teacheth me to make this collation saying As amongst the people there were false Prophets which were most in estimation before Christs comming so shall there be false teachers amongst the people after Christs comming and verie many shall follow them and as for your future tense you wil not conclude Christs Church not to haue béene before but rather that there is no builder in the Church but by Christ onely in that he saith I will build my Church for Paul and Apollo be but waterers York He taketh vpon him to iudge the Church a man shall neuer come to certainty that doth so Brad. I speake simply that which I thinke and desire reasons to answere my Obiections assuredly you did well to depart from the Romish Church but you haue done wickedly to coupple your selues to it againe for you can neuer proue it which you call the mother Church to be Christs Church Chichest You were but a Childe then I was but a young man come from the Uniuersitie and went with the World but it was alwaies against my conscience Brad. I thinke you haue done euill for ye are come and haue brought others to that wicked man which sitteth in the Temple of God which is the Church for it cannot be vnderstood of Mahomer or any out of the Church but of such as beare rule in the Church Yorke Sée how you build your Faith vpon the most obscure places of the Scripture to deceiue your selfe as though you were in the Church which are not Brad. Well my Lord though I might by truth iudge you and others yet will not I vtterly exclude you out of the Church but I am not out of the Communion of the Church for it consisteth in Faith York Loe how you make your Church inuisible for you would haue the Communion of it to consist in Faith Brad. To haue Communion of the Church néedeth not visiblenesie of it for Communion consisteth in Faith and not in exterior Ceremonies as appeareth by Paul which would haue one Faith and by Ireneus to Victor saying disagréeing of fasting should not breake the agréeing of Faith Chichest That place hath often wounded my conscience because we disseuered our selues from the Sea of Rome Brad. God forgiue you for you haue done
Therefore much more where there is so great a multitude but in generall Councels Masse hath been approued and vsed therefore it is good Ridley It is true that where so many be gathered together in Christs name it is not credible but two or three be gathered together in his name but if there be an hundreth good two hâ—ndreth bad being the Decrees Ordinances goe according to most voices what can the lesse number of voices preuaile It is a common prouerbe often the greater part ouercommeth the better but it is impossible that any such Councell of good men allowed such a Masse as ours was of late in a strange tongue and stuffed with so many absurdities errors and superstitions for as there is no agreement betwixt light and darknes Christ and Beliall so superstition and sincere religion will-worship and pure worship in spirit and truth can neuer agree together Latimer Touching generall Councels I refer you to your owne experience in our Parliaments and Conuocations the most part in my time did bring forth the six Articles because then the King would so haue it After the most part did repeale the same because our good Iosias would so haue it The same Articles now again the most part hath restored because the Queene will haue it after this sort most commonly are mens proceedings Anto. If in generall Councels men should not folow most voâ—ces then should the church haue no certaine rule to determin waighty matters but it is not to be beléeued that Christ would leaue the Church destitute of so necessary a help Rid. Christ the most louing spouse of his espouse the Church did giue vnto it abundantly all things necessary to saluation but so that the Church should kéep her selfe within the obedience of his commandements and not to séek any thing as necessary to saluation which he teacheth not and for determination of all controuersies in Religion Christ hath left vnto the Church Moses and the Prophets which he willeth the church to aske councell of and all the New Testament that which is hard in Moses and the Prophets is reuealed in them so that wee haue no need to say who shall clime vp to heauen or who shall goe downe into the deepe to tell vs what is needfull to be done Christ hath done both and commanded 〈…〉 〈◊〉 the word of Faith and if we walke diligently therein by his spirit we shall 〈…〉 out the truth and obtaine euerlasting life As in Esay 8. Shall men-aske 〈…〉 of the dead for the liuing Let them goe vnto the Law the Testament 〈…〉 Christ Ioh. 5. biddeth vs Search the Scriptures And Hierom saith Ignorance 〈…〉 scriptures is mother of errors vpon the 25. of Mathew and in another place he saith the knowledge of the scriptures is the food of euerlasting life and we read not that Christ in any place hath â—aid so great a burden vpon the members of his Church that he hath commanded them to go vnto the vniuersal Church it is true that Christ gaue vnto his Church some Apostles and some Prophets some Euangelists some Shepheards and Teachers to the edifying of the Saints vntill we all come vnto the vnity of Faith But that all out of all parts of the world should méet together in Councell to define the Articles of faith it is not commanded of Christ. Lat. There is diuersitie betwixt things pertaining to God or Faith and politick and ciuill matters for in the first we must stand only to the scriptures which are able to make vs perfect vnto saluation if by study and prayer we vnderstand them and the most prudent men of the world are least apt to vnderstand them but in ciuill matters being wee know not otherwise how to maintaine common peace and quiet they doe ordaine that the most part shall take place Anto. It is perilous to attempt any new thing in the Church vnto which the example of the Prophets of Christ and of the Apostles are contrarie for in their time all things were most corrupt the people were miserably giuen to superstition the Priests despised the law of God yet we neuer read that the Prophets made any schismes and Christ haunted the Temples and taught in them daily Peter and Iohn went into the Temple at the ninth houre of prayer Paule after the reading of the law desired to say some thing vnto the people neyther Christ nor his Apostles did refuse to pray with others to sacrifice or be partaker of Moses law Ridley The Prophets Christ nor the Apostles did not communicate with the people in any kind of worshipping forbidden by the law or repugmant to the word Saint Augâ—stine in his Epistle Ad Ianuarium speaking of the ceremonies of the Iewes he saith They were burdens of the law which were deliuered by the word of God and not by the presumptions of men but now the ceremonies are of men and contrary to the word of God and therefore not to be borne In the story of Tobias when all other went to the golden calues of Ieroboam to worship hee alone went to the Temple of the Lord to worship In the third of Kings the man of God threatned terrible plagues to the Priest of Bethell and to the Altar which Ieroboam had made which came to passe by King Iosias The Prophets vehemently rebuked the people still for going a whoreing with their Hill-Altars and this was the chiefe cause wherefore the false Prophets ceased not to maligne the true Prophets therefore they beate them and banished them How otherwise can you vnderstand the saying of S. Paul What concord hath Christ with Beliall the beleeuer with the Infidel the temple of God with Idols for we are said to be Gods temple because God dwelleth in vs wherfore we are bidden to come out seperat our selues from them and to touch no vncleane thing and God will receiue vs and be our Father and we shall be his Sonnes and Daughters In the 12. of Iudith she would not defile her selfe with the meats of the wicked The Machabees died manfully in the defence of the Law S. Augustine saith If we praise the Machabees for their stoutnesse for the Law of Moses how much more ought we to suffer all things for our baptisme and the Lords supper which the Masse vtterly abolisheth and corrupteth Anto. I perceiue you are so obstinatly wedded vnto your owne opinion that no wholsome counsels can draw you to a better mind therefore you must be handled by the lawes and be either compelled thereto or suffer the punishment of the Law he that refuseth to obey the lawes of the realme is an enemy to his Country This is the readiest way to stir vp ciuill wars it is better you should beare your owne â—â—nne then the common quiet to bee disturbed how can you say you will bee the Quéenes subiects when you openly professe you will not kéepe her lawes Ridl It is true he that will not obey the Gospell must be