tâ—e Rule and Foundation of our Faith but what we find written in the holy Scriptures This is that word of God which is authenticall of Authority to his Church and therefore Authority to us because written So as your unwritten word whereiâ— you agree with Bellarmine and your Apostolicke Traditions wherin you come home to your A. C. the Jesuite we receive none of them all as authentick or to have any thing to doe to expound the Scripture in any doubt about the Faith But if you can shew us any Traditions Apostolick we will by your leave examine them by the Scriptures and not the Scriptures by them You name baptizing of Infants for a Tradition Apostolicke We doubt not but the Apostles baptized the Infants of beleeving Parents For the Infants or Children of such are holy as the Apostle sheweth And so they belonged to the Covenant And as the Children of the Jewes in the old Testament were circumcised as pertaining to the Covenant and promise made to Abraham and to his Seed So Baptisme succeding in place of Circumcision as a Seale of the Same Covenant belongs to all Children of beleeving Christian Parents As the Apostle saith Therefore it is of Faith that it might come by Grace and the Promise might be sure to all the Seed not to that onely which is of the Law but to that also which is of the Faith of Abrahâ—m who is the Father of us all So as beleeving Christians have the same interest in the Covenant with Abraham and their Children or Infants have the like priviledge of Baptisme as the Infants of the ancient Israelites had for Circumcision Therefore the Baptizing of Infants was certainly practised by the Apostles as well as the baptising of beleeving Parents So as we doe not baptize Infants because you tell us it is a Tradition Apostolicke but because it is as clearely and firmely grounded in the Scripture as the baptizing of beleeving Parents We exclude therefore whatsoever Word unwritten or Traditions Apostolicke as you call them as being either partiall or equall Rules of Faith with the Scriptures as Bellarmine calls them or as Interpreters and Iudges of the Scripture in doubts about Faith as you are bold to affirme We have no word of God but the Scripture we acknowledge no Traditions Apostolicke but what we find they delivered in Scripture The Prophets in the old Testament sent Gods people to the Scripture for information instruction resolution in all matters of Faith and Cases of Conscience To the Law and to the Testimony Saith Isaiah if they Speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them He Saith not To the Traditions of our Fathers but To the Law and to the Testimony Gods word written Els there is no light in men they are blind guides that in matters of Faith lead us any where but to and by the Scriptures And the Prophet Ieremiah They have rejected the word of the Lord and what wisedome is in them All wisdome without this word of God is foolishnesse all knowledge without this is ignorance and blindnesse So our Saviour Christ Search the Scriptures for in them ye thinke to find eternall life and they are they which testifie of me So as Christ allowes us no other Testimony of him and of Faith in him but the Scriptures We must erunan Search them not the Archives or Sacraries of blind Traditions though guilded over never so faire with the name of Apostolick nor of any pretended word of God unwritten And Christ answereth the Lawyer when he asked what he should doe to inherit Eternall life What is written in the Law How readest thou And the Apostle That none presume above that which is written And Whatsoever things were written afore time were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope And Peter We have a more sure word of Prophecy to wit the Scriptures of the old Testament whereunto ye doe well that ye take heed In all which places and many more the Scripture is still commended to us as the onely absolute sufficient perfect and compleat Rule of our Faith in all matters or doubts of Faith touching our Salvation So as it hath no other interpreter but it selfe not any Tradition not any word unwritten But of this you will give us occasion to speak more at after L. p. 72 73. Faith is the gift of God of God alone and an Infused habit in respect whereof the soule is meerely recipient The Sole Infuser is the Holy Ghost Till the Spirit of God move the heart of man he cannot beleeve P. I confesse when first I read these words I began to muse with my selfe and to argue thus What is my Lord of Canterbury turn'd Orthodox no Arminian in the Doctrine of Grace But looking a little further and observing both the Authors you alledge as Stapleton a great man with you and other Popish Authors as is usuall with you throughout your Book and also considering of what Faith you here Speak I changed my conceit and found that you were no Changeling For wheras I thought that all this faire â—â—ourish of Faith is the gift of God of God alone A habit infused The Holy Ghost the Sole Infuser The soule meerely recipient Till Gods Spirit move mans heart he cannot beleeve had been meant of that Grace of Saving and Iustifying Faith which the Scripture teacheth and particularly the Apostle Ephes. 2.8 By Grace ye are saved through Faith and not of your selves it is the Gift of God c. I imagined I say that as you used the Apostles very words and the Language of Scripture so you had done it in the sense and mind of the Apostle and of the Scripture which Speaks so of the Saving and Iustifying Faith But when I found the contrary I confesse I blushed at my folly in having such a conceit of you having had so much experience both of your usuall perverting of Scriptures and your corrupt sense throughout your Book and considering that light and darknesse cannot stand together and how you hâ—ve altogether suppressed the Preaching of the Doctrines of Grace and finding that all this Faith you Speake of is nothing els but that historicall Faith in beleeving the Scriptures to be the word of God which beliefe is common to the very Reprobates and Devils themselves who beleeve and tremble Phristouâ—i they quiver and Shake as when mens teeth Chatter in their head in extreme cold And yet how doe you abuse the Scripture and your Reader in giving to this Faith those peculiar Attributes which are proper and peculiar to the onely Saving Grace of Saving Faith the Sole Infuser Giver and worker whereof is the Holy Ghost Tell me how come the Devils to that historicall faith whereby they beleeve the Scripture to be the very word of God and all things therein to be most certainly true and so all
as you imposed upon me So as No Right that is No Orthodox Church at Rome And yet no newes it is that I granted the Roman Church to be a true Church For so much very learned Protestants have acknowledged before me and the Truth cannot deny it For that Church which receives the Scripture as the Rule of Faith though but as a partiall and imperfect Rule and both the Sacraments as instrumentall Causes and seales of Grace though they adde more and infuse these yet cannot but be a True Church in Essence How it is in manners and Doctrine I would you would loâ—ke to it with a single eye P. Not Right then not Orthodox you hold the Church of Rome to be That 's somthing yet Yet True you ever have and will hold her to be unlesse she absolutely fall away from the Faith Well And yet I wot well you give absolutely falling away from the Faith So large bounds as it is to be feared you will never come to give her for absolutely gone and fallen away from the Faith so long as she can have but one bare thread or ragge of the profession of the Faith of the Creed nay if she can but say over her Creed though as you Confesse elsewhere she hath quite overthrown the sense of it And if the sense of it be destroyed surely the Faith of it also This will more fully appeare as we goe along We come to your Reasons why you hold Rome a True Church 1. For very learned Protestants which hold with you in this First we can set both as learned and double the number of of Protestants who will weigh down the Scale against those that seem to be of your opinion Secondly we could out of those very Protestant Authors whom you mean though I suppose you seldome read such Authors and in other things scarce name them Honoris causa collect more against this opinion That the Church of Rome is a true Church then you can for it As out of Iunius himselfe for Instance I mentioned before a laâ—e Book intituled Babel no Bethel never yet answered by any Jesuite or other Priest Romish or English where the Author hath cleared all or most of those Protestants which his Adversaries alledged and I suppose you meane from this opinion of yours And then also the Author proves by many concluding Arguments and in my opinion unanswerable that the Church of Rome is no true visible Church of Christ as having lost the very Essence of a true Church To which Booke I referre your Lordship could your patience but brook the Authors name or your Conscience not tremble at the mention of him To your Second Reason First I deny that the Church of Rome receives the Scriptures as A Rule of Faith For first The Rule of Faith must be in it selfe simply Divine and Infallible But such to the Church of Rome the Scripture is not For she makes the Infallibility and Divine Authority of the Scripture to depend upon the Church as you do upon Church Tradition which you confesse to be not simply Divine and Infallible Ergo Rome receives not the Scripture as A Rule of Faith Secondly Rome receives not holds not The Rule of Faith Ergo she is not a true Church As the late Dr Carleton of Chichester in his Book of the Church hath well and learnedly proved For not to hold the Rule of Faith is to deny and destroy the Faith and to fall absolutely away from the Foundation of Faith and to set up a new and false Faith upon a new and false Foundation Nor dare or doe you say that Rome receives the Scripture as The Rule of Faith but onely as A Rule of Faith to wit a partiall Rule as Bellarmine calls it But if the Scripture be as it is The onely Rule of Faith and ever hath been in all ages so held till Rome in the Councel of Trent changed this Rule then not to hold it so for The Rule that is the onely Rule but onely as a partiall Rule joyned with other Rules equall to it as her Traditions which Bellarmine in his Book de verbo Dei non scripto calls the word of God unwritten is to reject the onely Rule and so to fall absolutely away from the Faith And you confesse that the Church of Rome holds the Scripture but as a partiall and imperfect Rule And is this nothing with you What is this but to evacuate and utterly make voyd the Rule when for a perfect intire and absolute onely Rule it is made but a partiall imperfect and joynt Rule And when humane Authority is equalled with Divine Humane Traditions with Divine Scriptures as an equall Rule of Faith Nay and those her Traditions which she calls her word of God unwritten are such as teach things directly contrary to the Doctrines of Scripture as of Purgatory Invocation of Saints and the like Is not this a'kurosai as Christ saith to make voyd and of no Authority the Commandements of God by mens Tradition Yet this Camel you can easily swallow you slight this over as a matter of nothing as if it were all one thing in a manner to hold the Scripture The Rule of Faith and A Rule of Faith namely a part or piece of the Rule The whole Rule and a partiall Rule The onely perfect Rule and An imperfect Rule All this breakes no squares with you but that Rome for all this holds the Rule of Faith and therfore you hold her for a true Church of Christ. But yet in so saying you plainly imply That if Rome held not the Rule of Faith she is no true Church of Christ but is absolutely fallen away from Christ the Foundation For you give this for a Reason that Rome is a true Church because she holds the Rule of Faith Ergo If she hold not the Rule of Faith she is no true Church of Christ but is absolutely fallen away from the Faith Whereupon I argue thus That Church which denyeth the Scripture to be the onely Intire Absolute perfect Rule of Faith is fallen absolutely away from Christ and so ceaseth to be a true Church that is to have the very Essence and beeing of a true Church of Christ But the Church of Rome denyeth the Scripture to be the onely Intire Absolute Perfect Rule of Faith Ergo the Church of Rome is absoluely fallen away from Christ and so ceaseth to be a true Church that is to have the very Essence and beeing of a true Church of Christ. The Minor Proposition is confessed by your Lordship For you say The Church of Rome holds the Scripture but as A Rule a Partiall Rule an Imperfect Rule Thus she denyeth the Scripture to be the onely Intire Absolute Perfect Rule of Faith And for the Major Proposition you doe by necessary Consequence confesse it also to be true For you set it down as a Reason why you hold the Church of Rome to be a true Church because she holds the
in his innocent nakednesse then with his devised Fig-leaves how applyed to the Prelaticall Church 103 104. Prelates Service sensuall and heathenish as done to an unknown God fully displayed 104. Prelates pompous Ceremonies like the Cardinals Sumpter 105. No necessity of Prelates Ceremonies sith both Superstitious and Superfluous saving that they are all the Substance of their Religion 106 107. True Reformation ought to have no Ceremonies at all to bind the Conscience 107. Prelates Ceremonies strengthen Superstition and Idolatry and destroy true piety 108. What is that Substance of Religion which Prelates Ceremonies doe fence 106 107. And what strength they adde to his Religion how it is weaknesse not to see 108. Prelates Ceremonies are beggerly Rudiments yea Aegyptian bonds and Babilonish Chaines 108. How by the Prelates Ceremonies so eagrely urged the Jesuites win ground 108 109. Romes Reconciliation hastened by hossing up wodden Altars and hurling down golden Ministers 109. The Jesuites hale in Popery through the Prelates broad Gates he hath layd open ibid. 21. How the Prelate hath layd open the wider-gates of his Catholicke Church by pulling down the walls and bulwarks of Christs true Church 109. The Prelates wider-Gates whither they lead 110. The Prelate hath nothing to doe with the true Faith nor Communion with the true Saints ibid. He perverteth the Scripture Jude 3. falsely applying the Saints Faith to his boundlesse Catholicke Church 110. What Truth the Prelate professeth and with what singlenesse of heart 110 111. And his notorious hypocrisie in deluding the King 111. The Prelate puts all his Book upon the King as published in obedience to his Majesties command ibid. What we may expect from the Prelate who resolves to dye in that Faith wherein he hath lived ibid. And so what hope he can have of Gods favour 112. THE CONTENTS OF THE MAINE POINTS AND PASSAGES IN THIS insuing Reply to the Relation it selfe 2. WHat is that Church whose judgement the Prelate would have the people to depend upon 113. And not to be too busie with Seripture but moderately in things obvious 114. How the Prelate yeelds the Jesuite this that the Church of Rome is a true Church on whose judgement people must depend 115. The Prelate a Subtile underminer of the Truth 116. 4. The papall Church holds no one point of Saving Truth ibid. 23. How the Prelate vants himselfe for the great Champion of the Church of England 117. 29. How the Prelate overthrows Christ while he makes things not Fundamentall in the Faith necessary to some mens Salvation but tells us not who those be 117 118. 31. How the Prelate can bind all men to peace by his Churches Declaration yea though it be not the Churches 118. The dangerous Consequences hereof 119. 32. The Prelate selfe-condemned for adding things contrary and detracting things necessary 120. 35. How against the Prelate things considered in the manner of Beeing onely are fundamentall in the Faith Instanced in sundry particulars 120 121. The many absurd consequences of Popish Reall-presence ibid. 37. How the Prelate makes things which are fundamentall in the Faith not to be so to all men 122. See 117.118 If the Prelate doe at all discerne what the true Faith is what use he makes of it 122. 39. How the Prelate falsifies Lyrinencis and is loth to English some of his words 123. If the Church of Rome be Lupanar Errorum a Stews of Errours 't were good that all should know her in plain English to be so to avoyd her though the Prelate be loth English men should know it ibid. How the Prelate applauds the Iesuite Stapleton in a grosse point of Popery whom Dr. Whitakers in the Chaire at Chambridge confuted 124. How therein the Prelate prefers Stapleton before Bellarmine who comes nearer to the Truth ibid. 40. How the Prelate is justly as an Enemy to Assurance of Salvation and so of true Saving Faith 124. 43. How the Prelate makes it whether for a penny Beliefe of Scripture or the Creed hath the Precedencie of a Prime Principle of Faith 125. 44. The Prelate allows some Traditions for Apostolick though not fundamentall in the Faith ibid. 45. The Prelates Faith of Christs Descent into hell which Article is by the Replyer discussed 126 to 129. 47.48 For default of examining the Articles of the Creed by Scripture the Prelate overthrows two Articles The Catholicke Church and the Communion of Saints 129. 51. Notwithstanding the Prelate we ought boldly and publickly to affirme The Truth against errour 132. 53. The Prelate submits the Faith of the Church of England to the judgement of the Fathers whether her Articles be according to Scripture How by those Fathers he is condemned 132 133. With what limitation the Church within the first 400 or 500. yeares may be sayd to have been at the best 133 134. How the Replyer declines the occasion of entring into a comparison between the truly Reformed Protestant Churches and that within the first 500. years after the Apostles 134. Conformity to Popish Rites a Pretence to bring Papists to Church as the Christians anciently intertained Heathen manners to draw them to be Christians 134. Augustine complained of Ceremonies then when if the Prelate say true the Church was at the best ibid. 62. The Prelates false professed Faith concerning the Catholicke Church in the Creed which he defines to be the Society of all Christians 135. 66. How the Prelate jumpes with Bellarmine for a word of God as well unwritten as written 135 136 137. Baptisme of Infants a Doctrine of Scripture not an unwritten Tradition We ought to repaire to Scripture in all doubts of Faith 137. 72 73. How the Prelates words not well examined may make us beleeve he is no Arminian but Orthodox in the Doctrine of Grace while he abuses the Scripture most palpably and grosly 138 139. 75 76. What the place and office of naturall Reason is in judgeing of Scripture against the Prelate magnifying naturall Reason to the vilifying of Scripture the blindnesse and vanity thereof in judging of Divine things and matters of Faith 140 141 142 143. Vnsanctified Reason how it judges the Scripture to be false 143. How the Prelate is put to his naturall Reasons pregnancy in matters of Faith 1â—2 77. The Prelates extreme blindnesse or malice in saying The Scripture is strengthened with probable Arguments from the light of Nature and humane Testimony to convince men without which it is not so demonstratively evident of it selfe 144. At large confuted 14â— to 149. A secret power in Scripture convincing a naturall man in the reading or hearing of it preached that it is the very word of God 148 149 150. See also A motion of the Replyer to the Prelate how he shall make tryall of the Scriptures powerfull sufficiencie to convince him that it is the word of God 149. A comparison of the Scripture with the Sun 151. Gods word preached and not Church-Tradition the ordinary prime motive and instrument of Faith Illustrated
by pregnant Comparisons ib. 83. How the Prelate hangs the Beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God necessarily upon the Authority of the present Church and other such poore inducements all but meere probabilities which may beget opinion but never beliefe 152 153 154 155. All examined and proved to be meere vanity in all which the Prelate destroyes all Faith and hope of Salvation 156. also 157. In what sense and way onely a Naturall Man being led by the Prelates hand as of the present Church to read the Scripture may be induced to beleeve it is the very word of GOD 154. 84. Further notorious blasphemies of the Prelate in derogating from Scripture as having no light but as a candle in a box of 12 in the pound till Tradition of the present Church doe light it Examined 157 158 159. How the Prelate perverts the Scripture and puts out the light of it 157. Other blasphemies of the Prelate against the Scripture Gods word and the Holy Ghost making his Church-Tradition the eyes inlightner 159 160 161. Gods own voyce in Scripture read and preached begets beliefe that it is Gods word 161. 85. The Prelates prosecution of this Argument in advancing his present Church Authority further confuted 162 163. 85 86. A Subtile and Sly evasion of the Prelate from the Jusuites true objection 164. A pretty tricke of Legerdemain 195. Scriptures full light teacheth a perfect knowledge against the Prelates Evasion 165 166. 87. The Prelates perverting of Scripture in his Babylonish confounding the Historicall with the Saving and justifying Faith as he alwayes doth and another Scripture in confounding the regenerate with the unregenerate 166. to 170. Whereupon the Replyer addes a notable Discourse of the nature of true Saving Faith 170 to 174 as namely of its admirable operations in the severall faculties of the Soule with its excellencie c. The Prelate Contradicts himselfe not knowing wherof he affirmeth Saving that by Faith he ever meaneth a false Faith whereby he destroyeth the true 173. The Sure beliefe of Scripture is a Christians sure comfort in trouble 172 173. 88. Hookers Sensible Demonstration so applauded by the Prelate throughly scanned and soundly proved to be false by most evident Demonstrations proving the Scripture to prove it selfe Gods word 174 to 177. The Prelates Ground from Nature being applyed to Scripture proved false and Christs Saying which the Prelate objecteth cleared 177 178. 89. Hookers stating of the Question commended by the Prelate for Tradition as the Key to open the Entrance to Scripture proved false in the Prelates sense and that Key to be a false pick-lock 178 179. 91. How the Prelate in charging the Pope for usurping Lordship over the world is taken tardy for doing the like himselfe over All England contrary to S. Peters rule alledged by the Prelate 180. 93. What assistance Lawfully sent Pastors and Teachers have ordinarily of God 180.181 95. The Prelate selfe-condemned ibid. 98. The Prelate belyes the Scripture to credit his church-Church-Tradition 182. Scripture little heholden to the Prelates church-Church-Tradition ib. His bold belying the Scripture as if that gave Authority to his usurped Church-Tradition ib. The Prelate catcht in his own Delemma or Net ibid. A Solecisme of the Prelate ibid. 100. The Prelate maliciously yoakes the precise party as he calls it with the Jesuite onely making that 10 times worse 183 184. The precise party with the Prelates factious silence Ministers vindicated from his wicked and false reproches 184 185 186. The Prelates 3 marks of his imagined Author of Ipswich Newes 186. The Prelates hypocriticall words and desperate deeds for Preaching how they agree and his cursed hypocrisie cryed shame of by his infamous practises 187. The Prelate knows not what true Preaching meanes 188. Difference between true Sermons and the Preachers for infallibility ibid. The Prelates Diabolicall malice against the true Preachers of Gods word 189. The Replyer at length forced by the Prelate to answre his compari-tween the Ancient Fathers and the best moderne Reformed Dison be vines for Preaching 190 191. Other Cavils of the Prelate answered 192 193. 104. The Prelate perverteth the Fathers to uphold Tradition still which they were against to the Prelates sense 194 195 196. Prelates Popish pretence of Scriptures deepnesse to draw men from them to seek to the Oracles of the present Church Tradition 196 to 199. With the mischiefes that may follow upon it ibid. The Prelates Popish zeale noted by occasion in his forcing all Bibles to be bound with Apochrypha 196 197. How the Prelate overthrows a true Principle and Maxime by a false 198. Grace makes Supernaturall truth more evident then Nature doth the Naturall 199. 106. Another excellent discourse of Saving Faith occasioned by the Prelate bewraying his profound ignorance herein 200 201 202. The Prelats bold belying and blaspheming Gods secret Councels 202. The Prelates broad blind Popish way 203. Fully confuted 203 204. 109. Prelate againe blasphemeth in belying Gods Councels 205. 1â—6 The Prelate hangs the Credit of Scripture upon mans opinions of Gods sufficiencie ibid. Mans opinion of Gods sufficiencie how vaine blind and impotent 206. The Prelate himselfe proved to have a blind opinion of God and of his Sufficiencie and consequently he is an Infidel not beleeving the Scripture to be Gods word 207 108. as which saith he depends on mans opinion of Gods sufficiencie 111. The Prelate still detracts from Scripture all along 208. 113. By the Prelates Doctrine the Faith of all the Apostles Martyrs ancient Fathers and Doctors which know no such Tradition of the present Church as a necessary prime inducement to lead them to the beliefe of Scripture to be Gods word is Hereticall and Schismaticall 206 210. Ergo the Prelaticall Church Schismaticall and Hereticall 115. Most notorious blasphemy of the Prelate against the Holy Ghost making him the Author of falshood as is shewed 211 212 213 214. Sundry probable Reasons layd down by the Replyer why the Prelate should as he doth chuse the light of nature as the Second to his Church Tradition to introduce beliefe of Scripture to be Gods word and of God to be God 212 213. No reverend perswasion of Scripture had till first the Tradition of of the present most Reverend Father commend it as Laudable 212. How the Prelate dallies with Romish Idolatry 211. How the Prelate hangs mans beliefe of God as of Scripture upon his Church Tradition 212. 116 The Prelates good inclination to mans free-will in beleeving The Prelates notorious and grosse hypocrisie pretending respect to the Scripture to be the motive of his tedious vain groundlesse and gracecâ—ssâ— discourse in disgracing and vilifying of it altogether and that as gâ—osly as ever any â—esuiâ—e did 215 216. The Prelaâ—es most wickâ—d perverting and abusing of Scripture 216 Wâ—o are his Christianly dâ—sposed men whom in his Discourse he â—ndâ—avoureth to satisfie ibid. 118. A nimble shift and put off of the Prelates 217. The absurbity of his Comparison of his
either in profession dissenteth or in practise differeth from the Church of Rome you reckon those among Romes corruptions Therfore on the contrary in whatsoever you are one and the same Church with Rome those must be no corruptions but the very pure Essence and Substance of that one Church which is just there where Romes is now And what are those Namely One and the same in the Hierarchy or Prelaticall Government which is so essentiall to your Church as where 't is not there 's no Church Onely with this difference The Pope Christs Vicar over the whole world and your Lordship his Vice-roy over all England that other world One and the same in all the members of this great body of the Hierarchy and in all the Officers of this Church-Government as Chancellors Archdeacons Officialls Commissaries and so downe to the very Skirts of that goodly guarded Babilonish Government One and the Same in all your Ecclesiasticall Courts as the Prerogative Court the Court of Arches the Bishops Ordinary Court the Spirituall Court the Court of Inquisition and High Commission with a little difference in the name One and the Same in their Canons and chiefly the Popes Canon Law One and the Same in your Episcopall Robes and vestments both rare and rich as purple and scarlet and fine linnen as it were the livery whereby you are known to be of one and the same house or family with that Woman Rev. 17. aliâs the Great Whore of Babilon with whom you claim Sister-hood So also in your Miters your Rochets Palls Semiters Square Caps Tippets and so cap a pied One and the Same in your Liturgy Service or Matins or Service-Booke which even your Iesuite confessed to be Catholick and so One and the Same in all your Service dressing and garbe as rich Copes Palls and other Altar-ornaments goodly guilt plate faire Crucifixes over them and devout adoration unto them and praying toward the East where your Altar and Crucifix standeth goodly gay Images and Loud-sounding Organs and sweet chanting Choristers and Chanters Deanes and Subdeanes and Prebends Epistlers and Gospellers Singing-men and Viergers and a huge Sately pome and Equipage more then I can tell where you have Long Service and Short Sermons or rather to avoyd tediousnesse none at all yea and your Service in your Cathedralls in an unknown tongue the Popish Service mumbled in a strange tongue and yours in a strange tone chanted and roared out so loud by a sort of profane and drunken Singing Men and Apish Boyes with such a black Sanctus as the people is no way edified as not knowing whether they sing a Song of Robin Hood or play a Scotish Jigge One and the Same in your Altars Priests Sacrifices Onely with some small difference in some termes and manner of expression both holding a reall presence Rome explicitly by Transubstantiation and England implicitly not daring to speake plainly how onely willing to come as neare Rome as the time will give leave in stead of an Host you will have at least your Crucifix a representation of Christs body Sacrificed on the Crosse either upon the Altar for a pawne till the Host it selfe come or as neare over the Altar as may be One and the Same in exercising an Antichristian Tyranny over mens Soules Consciences Bodies Purses Estates by holding them in hard bondage under your roaring Canons and intollerable burthens of Ceremonies but this is rather to be referred to the Title or Caput of Hierarchy the Essence and Substance of your One and the Same Church One in punishing the Transgressors of Ecclesiasticall Canons more severely then of Gods Commandements One in execution of Discipline by Excommunication in your blind Courts for every trifle which must cost more then a trifle to get off So as there must be a Commutation and Solution for Absolution One in Dispensations and Prohibitions dispensing with such as will dispend that by Licence they may Marry or eate flesh in Lent One and the Same in persecuting the true Church of Christ his Word his Ministers his People onely Rome doth it under the name of Hereticks of which you are none and you under the name of Puritans the worst of Hereticks One and the Same in bowing at the Name Iesus One and the Same in observation of Holydayes onely with some difference Rome hath more yet not an English Almanack but sets them forth at least in black attyre as the Papists veile their Images all the Lent from the peoples view to make them hunger the more after such food after their long Fast at Easter in hope that in time they may come to be cladde in Scarlet their Holy-day suit So as a Religious Gentleman late the Astronomy-Reader in Gressham-house but now translated above the Starres for Setting out an Almanacke with a Martyre to every day in stead of the Popes Saints was brought into the High Commission Court where he hardly escaped findging for an Heretick One and the Same in profaning and disesteeming the Lords day both accounting it to be of humane Authority both preferring their Church-holy-dayes before it both profaning it onely with this difference Rome profanes it onely practically but England both practically and professedly and Authentically by Speciall Dispensation and Edict One in condemning Innocents in your Ecclesiasticall Courts mixt with temporall Iudges as in your High Commission and in temporall Courts mixt with Ecclesiasticall Iudges such a sower leaven as after Ecclsieasticall Censure you deliver them over to the Secular power where through your instigation no mercy can be expected your selves being both Parties and Iudges One and the Same in holding the rule of Faith onely with this difference Rome equalling her Tradition with the Scripture and you puting a necessity of the present Churches Tradition and voyce as without which the Scripture cannot be beleeved to be the word of God as was touched before and as will appeare more fully at after So as Rome yoaketh her traditions in equall ranke with the Scripture and you put your Churches Authority and Tradition for the Forehorse to draw and lead the Scripture into mens beliefe as the Oxen drew the Arke towards Ierusalem that it is the word of God One and the Same in exempting your Clergy from the Civill power and Iudicature onely with this difference Rome hath got it in possession and you have often attempted it and openly professed your hope of Seeing the Clergy of England as high as ever they were or as the Lawyers now are In a word One and the Same in your Babilonish Faith and Religion For Rome hath so contrived some of her doctrines as those about Grace layd down in the Decrees of Trent as that those two mighty dissenting Sides about merit of Congruity to wit Andreas Vega with his Franciscans and Dominicus Soto with his Dominicans both Sides bearing a great sway and swindge in the Councel as that each side perswaded it selfe that the Decrees brought from Rome
one of these either expresse word of God or evident consequence â—ut of it And a little before Every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose the Determinations of the Church no not when they are Dogmata deposita Deposed Principles P. Now all these Passages weighed together do clearely and distinctly resolve themselves into these Conclusions 1. That the Church may decide and determine some things without any evidence or so much as a probable Testimony of holy Writ and herein you consent and jumpe fully with that notorious Papist and adversary of the once Church of England Stapleton whom the learned Dr. Whitakers publickly confuted in the Divinity Schooles in Cambridge as his Works can yet testifie And yet behold now the Church of England hath got a Champion in the Chaire of Canterbury who pleads for and applauds that in Stapleton which Dr. Whitakers and many other learned Divines in England formerly have refuted And for further Confirmation hereof you tax Bellarmine as of untruth where he confesses that nothing may be certaine by certâ—inty of Faith unlesse it be contained immediately in the word of God or be deduced thence by evident consequence Whereupon you inferre that if nothing can be certaine then certainly no Determination of the Church it selfe wanting expresse word or evident Consequence out of it Thus you condemne Bellarmines true Saying if by the Word of God he understand the Scriptum alone and not his word unwritten and approve and preferre Stapletons false and hereticall sentence before it Secondly That things so decided and determined by the Church without either evident or so much as probable Testimony of holy writ yet are so de fide so firmely to be beleeved as every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose Consonant hereunto you â—ay at after pag. 224. The Determination of a Generall Councel â—â—ring is to stand in force and to have externall obedience at least yeelded to it till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the Contrary make the errour appeare and untill thereupon another Councel of equall Authority do reverse it And so also pag. 226. c. Where here I mention for clearer proofe of what you say here but not to anticipate or prevent our fuller Answere when we come to those places where we shall supply our brevity here L. p. 40. I hope A. C. will not tells us there 's any Tradition extant unwritten by which particular men may have assurance of their Severall Salvations P. But what think you of it Will you tell us there is no such thing written in the Scripture That true Beleevers may have assurance of their owne Salvation But if there be why doe you forbid Preachers to meddle with it considering the true and solid comfort which it bringeth to him that hath it As the 17 th Article confesseth might it be suffered to speake out and had you not put a gagge in the mouth of it L. p. 43. Mine is That the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God and infallible is an equall or rather a preceding prime Principle of Faith wâ—th or rather to the whole body of the Creed P. How The Belief of Scripture to be Gods word and infallible no more but an equall or rather a preceding prime Principle of Faith with or rather to the whole body of the Creed This is yours you say your Saying And I beleeve it to be yours For it is as like to one of your Sayings as may be For here you attribute no more credit to the Scriptures then to the Creed both equall onely differing perhaps in point of some precedencie of time or So with an or rather equall or rather preceding the difference not great if any Thus doe you not equall a Church Tradition with the Divine Scripture For we have it by Tradition that the Apostles compiled the Creed and each his Severall Article And is this or any other Tradition of equall Credit with Scripture And is not the Scripture the Rule whereby the Articles of the Creed are to be interpreted which are no otherwise to be beleeved but as they are agreeable to the Scripture So as for the Purpose if you goe no further for the Sense of the Article of Christs Descent into hell then the very Letter of the Article you can make no Sense of it nor give any reason for it And how then can you give a reason of your Faith in this particular Except you do beleeve it because you do beleeve it and because the words are He Descended into Hell But of this more by and by L. p. 44. Some Traditions I deny not c. to be Apostolicall but yet not fundamentall in the Faith P. You might do well to point out unto us which be those your Apostolicall Traditions that we may distinguish them from those Traditions which Rome calls Apostolicall Or rather perhaps you admit of all those as Apostolicall indeed but yet not Fundamentall Surely if you can prove them to be truely Apostolicall namely that the Apostles delivered them immediately to the Church by word of mouth why are they not fundamentall in the faith Why are not all bound to beleeve them or give as much Credit to them as to the Articles of your Creed which you Say are fundamentall in the faith L. p. 45. The Church of England taketh the words He descended into hell as they are in the Creed and beleeves them without further Dispute and in that Sense which the ancient Primitive Fathers of the Church agreed in P. Here a Question may be moved 1. In generall Whether a man taking up a matter upon such trust as he gives equall beliefe unto it as to the Scriptures themselves doe not therein Sinne damnably As making that a fundamentall ground of his Faith which is not found to be in the Scripture Secondly in particular Whether a man resting in the very Letter of the Article He descended into Hell beleeving thâ—reupon as surely as he beleeves that God is in Heaven that Christs Soule did locally descend into Hell among the damned there having no regard at all to what the Scripture Saith of it whether the Scripture Say any such thing or no doe not hereby make way for his owne Descent into Hell Or thirdly Whteher you do as verily and firmly beleeve Christs Descent into Hell as you doe his Ascent into Heaven Seeing the Scriptures Speakes clearely and expresly of this but not so of that and whether you are aâ— much bound to beleeve his Descent into Hell because you find such words in the Creed as his Ascent into Heaven because you find it in the Scripture Now for Answere to all these together I conceive that to make any thing of the necessity of Faith to Salvation besides what is found in the Scripture is Sinne and in particular to beleeve that because it is Said in the Creed He Descended into Hell therefore Christ
that coming as neare as you can to the Papists in their Ceremonies you shall thereby bring them to the Church And surely this is the ready way either to bring Papists to your Church or you to their Church But I say the Church was so pestered with Rites and Ceremonies even in Augustins dayes that he complained that Christians were now in a worse case and condition under the Gospel then the Iewes were under the Law for though their yoake was grievous yet those Leviticall rites were of Gods owne ordaining and commandement but Christians saith he are brought under an intolerable yoake of Ceremonies of mens devising and imposing But now on the other side if I should enter into a Comparison between the Reformed Churches since Luther and those Primitive and ancient Churches as aforesaid I know it would be very tedious to your Lordship and extremely move your Patience especially if I should by many degrees preferre Calvin Bezâ— Zanchius Iunius and many hundred more Worthies both for learning and piety and chiefly for Soundnesse in Doctrine in the Reformed Churches beyond the Seaes yea and not a few on this side as Cranmer Ridley Latimer Hooper all Martyrs Iewel Whitakers Reynolds Perkins with infinite more and all within one Century before such as those Centuries aforesayd produced whose Names for Envy-sake I forbeare to mention Lastly you say you are content to submit to them in all those points of Doctrine If you be then for Shame cleare away those Cloudes which the said Declaration hath over-cast your Articles withall and cast away your Arminian Pelagian sense and take off your Suspension of them and let them speak one single truth as they formerly did and as all understood them according to the Scriptures L. p. 62. The Catholicke Church we beleeve in our Creed to be the Society of all Christians P. What you beleeve is one thing But we beleeve the Catholicke Church of Christ in the Creed to be the number and Society of all the Elect as the next Article expounds it The Communion of Saints but not that Company of all Christians which you name and meane Christians in name and profession tag and ragge pell mell good and bad Papists and Protestants of which the greatest number are no true living members of the true Catholick Church the mysticall body whereof Christ is the Head and which by Faith onely we apprehend for we beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church but cannot discerne with our bodily eyes as we doe a visible Object This is that Church which Christ loved for which he gave himselfe that he might sanctifie and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word to present it to himselfe a glorious Church not having spot or wrinckle or any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish This we beleeve to be the Holy Catholicke Church and no other But thus indeed as you tell us before you make wider the Gates of the Catholicke Church then ever Christ made them or rather indeed you exclude the Catholicke Church of Gods Elect and set up a new Catholicke Church which may be seen but ought not to be beleeved L. p. 66. Agreed on for me also it shal be that Gods word may be written and unwritten P. Agreed on with whom Even with no lesse then Bellarmine For in the very next words you give us the reason why it is agreed upon for you that Gods word may be written and unwritten For Say you Cardinall Bellarmine tells us truely that it is not the writing or Printing that makes Scripture the word of God but it is the Prime unerring Essentiall Truth God himselfe uttering and revealing it to his Church that makes it Verbum Dei the word of God Doth Bellarmine say so And that truely And to what end I pray you doth the Cardinall say so Is it not to overthrow the Scripture for being the Sole word of God and to bring in another word of God which he calls verbum non Scriptum an unwritten word that is a word besides the Scriptures and equall to the Scriptures which is Romes unwritten Traditions And to this end and purpose Bellarmine using these words doth he tell you truely and is this the reason for which it is agreed on for you that Gods word may be written and unwritten Now though it be true that that which is spoken by God is his word though it be not written yet to us there is now no other word of God but that which is written that which is contained in the Scriptures And this word written is that alone which our Faith is grounded and settled upon According to that of Iohn Many other Signes truely did Iesus in the presence of his Disciples which are not written in this Booke But these things are written that ye might beleeve that Iesus is the Christ the Son of God and that beleeving ye might have life through his Name So as we are not to inquire further what Christ spake or did besides what we find written But your Lordship tells us before of certaine Traditions Apostolicall which it seems are that word of God which may be unwritten For you say If the Scripture be a Foundation to which we are to goe for witnesse if there â—e doubt about the Faith and in which we are to find the thing that is to be beleeved as necessary in the Faith we never did nor never will refuse any Tradition that is Vniversall and Apostolicke for the better exposition of the Scripture And to this place you referre that which you say pag. 58. As for Tradition I have said enough for that and as much as A. C. where 't is truely Apostolicall From which words first we observe that you make but an If of the Scripture as a Foundation If the Scripture be a Foundation and If in it we are to find the thing that is to be beleeved as If it were to be found in any thing else And Secondly how home you come to A C. the Jesuite in admitting Tradition Apostolicke to expound any doubt about the Faith and so with Bellarmine you are agreed for a word of God unwritten as well as written And you further adde here pag. 66. Speaking of the Scriptures their being written gave them no Authority at all in regard of themselves Written or unwritten the Word was the same But it was written that it might be the better preserved and continued with the more integrity to the use of the Church and the more faithfully in our memories So you Now 't is true that by the writing of the Scripturâ—s Gods word contained therein is preserved continued in integrity and the more faithfully kept in our mâ—mories But is thiâ— all Nay the very writing of them though it added no Authority to Gods word in regard of it selfe yet as the Scriptures are to us Gods word is of the greater Authority because written For we acknowledge no other word of God as
for beliefe And you place the Authority of the Present Church in the forefront as a prime leader and inducer to this beliefe And this you inculcate very often and Say pag. 120 I confesse every where that Tradition introduces the knowledge of them And pag. 126. you tell the Jesuite A. C. saying Herein we goe the same way with you because we allow the Tradition of the present Church to be the First inducing Motive c. So as herein you jumpe with the Jesuite So then Authority of the present Church is the Prime Or as sometimes you call it Tradition or otherwhiles The voyce of the Present Church All comes to one reckoning Then to this Leader you muster up a troop of followers as here Ordinary Grace a mind morally induced and reasonably perswaded and before a mans owne Reason and humane Testimony morall perswasion Reason and Force of the present Church the Holy Ghost Conferring of the Scripture with it selfe and other writings And what then Then and not before the Scripture gives greater and higher Reasons of Credibility to it selfe then Tradition alone could give What No more effect for all this but a Credibility I expected you should with such a Troope under the command of such a Generall as the Authority Tradiâ—ion and voyce of the present Church have effected that Rockie Forâ— of mans heart to have yealded to open the Gates of his Infidelity to let in this Beliefe that Scripture is the word of God And can you obtaine no more then a Credibility Alas poore Scripture Can all Mans witty inventions advance thy credit which they have taken away no higher then to a Credibility But thus we may see the vanity of Mans wit when it hath cast away the truth This is right as the Preacher Saith Lâ—e this onely have I found That God made man upright but they have sought out many inventions So when men reject the word of the Lord what wisdome is in them Then they fall to their inventions like Michals stuffing her Image with Goates haire and laying it in the bed instead of David Or a right Embleme hereof we have in our First Parents when they had disrobed themselves of that plain simple seamelesse but glorious robe of their Innocencie having thus lost their uprightnesse wherein God made them presently they fall to their inventions they will supply the want of that robe with a many faire fresh Fig-leaves sowed together without either needle or thread vainly imagining that this would cover their shame when indeed it was a plain signe they had lost their Glory and yet could not hide their nakednesse So when a man hath lost the Truth he shall loose his wits in his manifold Inventions before he shal be able thereby to make up his losse Thus did the Church of Rome of old no sooner had they thrust out Gods word and the preaching of it out of their Temples but up goe their Images for Lay-mens Books and in comes crowding a multitude of Ceremonies the Inventions of man as if these would make amends with advantage instead of the holy Scriptures Just your practise in the Church of England at this day And just your like practise here When you have cast a black veile over the Scriptures native beauty and light disabling them as sufficient witnesses to prove themselves the word of God you invent here a number of things to stop our mouthes to make us beleeve that by these you will bring Mans naturall blindnesse to see and his infidelity to beleeve just nothing at all that the Scriptures are the word of God So as you deale with us here as some Parents doe with their Children take the piece of gold from them and please them with a handfull of deafe nuts Onely they doe it providently to preserve the Gold from being lost but you Popishly to destroy the Gold and to set up the painted dresse of your New-nothing Or you put out the Eyes of the Scripture and then light your Candle before it as after you tell us But let 's a little examine your words First I note here what a blind guide you commend to blind men to lead them to the beliefe of the Scriptures to be the word of God For what is it Certainty No Probabilty A man is probably led But of Probability we have spoken before And take this with you for a certaine truth Probability may beget an opinion but never a belief But by whom probably led By the Authority of the present Church What present Church Of the Prelates or Hierarchy ever But who gave you Authority to be a Church Or Suppose you were the true Church of Christ who gave you this Authority to take away from the Scriptures their sufficiencie of guiding men to the faith of them and to tie men to depend upon the Authority of the present Church thereby to be induced to beleeve the Scriptures And what 's your present Church Is it not the Same with that of Rome And is not this Authority which you arrogate Romish And what if your present Church with Rome shall induce us to beleeve the Apocryphall Bookes to be part of Scripture Or some word unwritten which you call Apostolick Traditions to be equall with the word written as you agree with Bellarmine in this Distinction of the word written and unwritten as before is touched And what if as you have given us too much proofe you should limit us in beleeving the Scripture what part to beleeve for Canonicall and what otherwise For as Hierome saith The Scripture consists more in the marrow of Sentences then in the barke of words more in the Sense then in the Syllables What say you then to the 4 th Commandement which your present Church denyes to be Morall for a Seventh day Sabbath and thereby overthrow the Sanctification of the Lords day What say you of the Doctrines of Grace which you have overthrowne by your Declaration before your Articles What of Altars and the like If herein you overthrow the Sense of Scripture doe you not proclaime to the world that such and such Scriptures are not Canonicall Or if the words be still holden for Canonicall yet it must be according to the Sense of your present Church As Paulus 4. the Pope in the End of the Councel of Trent tyes all Priests by oath to interpret the Scriptures no otherwise but according to the Sense of the Catholick Church the Summe whereof is the Decrees and Canons of Trent Is not thus the whole Scripture made voyd But come on let men be primely induced by the Authority of the present Church to wit of the Prelates or Hierarchy for no other Church you allow nor we you to be any other but of Antichrist by what Argument trow you is it likelyest they will be perswaded that the Scriptures are the word of God Will you give me leave to tell you my Opinion It is this in briefe When men upon
F 6 ly But since this Division say you nothing hath been done by you to discredit this Principle That the Scripture is the word of God No Nothing Not when you say The light which is in Scripture it selfe is not bright enough it cannot beare sufficient witnesse to it selfe Not when you say The Scripture is a light but as a Candle that yeelds no light till first it be lighted by Tradition of the present Church Not when you say That Scripture to be the word of God is not so demonstratively evident à priore that is of and by it selfe primarily as to inforce assent Not when you say Such a full light we doe neither say is nor require to be in Scripture as is in Prime Principles which carry a naturall light with them Is not this point blank against this Principle That Scripture is the word of God Not when you say God doth not require a full Demonstrative Knowledge in us that the Scripture is his word and therfore in his Providence hath kindled in it no light for that Not when you say That the Scripture cannot beare witnesse to it selfe nor one part of it to another And yet in all this and much more hath nothing been done by you to discredit this Principle That Scripture is the word of God Now let the Lord of the Scripture whose Word it is and all the Children of Truth be Judge in this matter against you G. 7 ly Yet you dare say more that you have given it all honour and ascribed unto it more sufficiencie as more then all even to the containing of all things necessary unto Salvation with satis superque enough and more then enough How enough and more then enough What A worke of Superarogation or superarrogancie rather Now fie for shame Will no bounds of Sober Speech contain your lawlesse spirit but that you must cast it in Gods dish That you had ascribed to his Word all honour and more sufficiencie and more then enough Had you yet turned Lyrinensis his word in the margent superque Abundantly it had been both more agreeable to reason and not lesse disagreeing with Grammer Certainly it had become you of all other to have qualified the construction of Satis superque better considering what palpable hand and harsh language you have dasht the Credit of Gods most holy Bible withall Extreames are not good And your Hypocrisie here is too grosly counterfeited Just as some Gentlewomans bad face for want of Art is daubed so much with laying on of Colours that it is ridiculous to every beholder And how say you in the truth of your heart were there any there that the Scripture containeth all things necessary to Salvation when it doth not containt tha assertion of yours That the Scripture is not known to be the word of God but by the Authority and Tradition of the present Church When yet this That the Scripture is the word of God is by your own expresse Confession one of the greatest Principles of beliefe H 8 ly For your going the same way with the Jesuites partly your whole Booke and partly all your practises doe Satis superque superabundantly witnesse Onely you say you cannot goe so farre in that way with them to make the present Tradition Alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten No not Alwaies Infallible I hope Onely somtimes perhaps Infallible when you say the word of God And if your present Tradition be not alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten I pray you is it at any time an unwritten word of God If it be then at such a time especially when its Infallibility is in Season is it not Infallible For Gods word is alwayes Infallible be it written or when he speaks it from heaven But when shall we se the time when you will prove your present Tradition to be a word of God unwritten or to have any Ground at all in written word of God the Scripture But if your present Church Tradition be not alwaies infallible but that somtimes at least it may deceive us certainly I conceive our safest course wil be alwayes to goe immediately and directly the shortest Cut to the Scripture it selfe which I am sure is alwaies Infallible and will never deceive us and not at any time to depend upon your present Tradition which is not alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten But me thinks I heare you say That you make not the present Tradition An Infallible word of God unwritten No not absolutely not Alwaies We understand English But if you could prove This your present Tradition to be but somtimes an infallible word of God unwritten in the use at least you put it to it were no great Mastery to conclude it to be in that case Alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten and so you should by this way of the Jesuites come full home to Rome But I hope you will more clearely and fully expresse your selfe in this grand point when to use your own words before It shall fit Time and Place In the meane time if this be not the genuine sense which I have picked but not stollen for the interpretation is Grammaticall and sensible out of your words then I confesse your meaning is more abstruse and mysticall then can be gathered from your manner of expression your words having a tang of that confusion of tongues at the building of that old Tower But the summe of it is Here is the grand difference between you and Rome She makes her Tradition alwayes a word of God unwritten unfallible you yours not Alwayes somtimes therfore and so it is blasphemy But at length pag. 127. the Lady calls you from the point of Church Tradition to heare what you will say of the Church of Rome whether you will Confesse it to be the Right Church And saith the Jesuite the Bishop granted that it was Now if the Lady were not dead as elswhere you tell us I should give her hearty thanks for being an occasion of delivering us out of this Purgatory-lake of your tedious irksome and endlesse Discourse of your present Tradition wherein otherwise it is to be feared you lye so long till you had been drowned in your own puddle or burnt up with your own hot zeale But let us heare your Answere to the Jesuites relation of what you granted L. p. 128. There is a great deale of difference between The Church and A Church and some between a True Church and a Right Church For the Church may import in our language The onely True Church and perhaps the root and ground of the Catholick And this I never did grant of the Roman Church nor never meane to doe But A Church can imply no more then that it is a member of the whole And this I never did nor never will deny if it fall not absolutely away from Christ. That it is a True Church I granted also but not a Right
then to Iudas the Standard-bearer of that troope that came to apprehend Christ for Iudas came to Christ with Hale Master and kissed him and with this kisse as by the signall given betrayed him And is not your Ordine primus by this very Character known to be Antichrist while pretending to be Apostolick and a Successor of the Apostles he doth the more easily betray Christ in his Word and Members into the hands and bands of men Object But Peter was Ordine primus What such as to avoyd confusion As a head uniting all the members and governing all the body as your Ordine primus to avoyd confusion necessarily imports Did Peter at any time convent the Apostles Was he that Ordine primus that struck the stroke and gave the Difinitive sentences in that first Generall and Apostolicall Councel Act. 15. Did not Iames determine and the whole Church assented And Gal. 2.9 Is not Iames set before Peter And was not Peter and Iohn sent by the rest of the Apostles to Samaria When was this necessity then of an Ordine primus to avoyd confusion And what confusion is avoyded this day in the Church of England by your being Ordine primus nay prim-as both in honour and Authority and Iurisdiction Have you not by that your Ordine primus brought a confusion upon Religion Upon the Doctrinall Articles Upon the Consciences and Faith of men not knowing what to beleeve or what to doe or how to live in any peace inward or outward But you thinke to shift well enough for one so long as you put an other Ordine primus before as before is noted upon whose back you may lay all your burthens So as if any thing be amisse or succeed not well you are not then the Ordine primus Lastly one thing I observe more from your Ordine primus and that is the necessity of it which say you some one must be What one soever this is whether the Patriarch of the greater world or he of the lesser or other World but Rome rather must be she there 's a necessity for this that one be Ordine primus What 's this By the necessity of this Ordine primus is brought in a necessity of your new Catholicke Militant Church consisting of the Prelacy or Hierarchy which is so one as one must be Ordine primus as generall of the whole Army as the Dragon and his Angels to warre against Michael and his Angels So as here is an indissoluble and inseparable combination and confederacy of Prelates throughout the world making up that one Militant or Malignant Church whereof one must 〈◊〉 the chiefe to order the battel that there be no disorder but that every one keep his ranke and fight in his station against the true Militant Church of Christ as was before noted L. p. 182. Let Rome reduce it selfe to the observation of Tradition Apostolicke to which it held in Irenaeus his time and I will say as he did That it will be then necessary for every Church and for the faithfull every where to agree with it P. Let Rome reduce it selfe to the rule of the Scripture in all things which the faithfull there held in Pauls time when he was prisoner yet Preacher in Rome and then I will say and wil be the first that will doe it I wil be one of the faithfull that will agree with it But for Tradition Apostolicke I know not what you meane and therfore I dare not say as you doe But still you hold with Ordine primus I am sure of it You hold fast together for your Hierarchy wherein you place the Pope your Ordine primus Which while you doe Whatsoever Tradition Apostolicke Rome shall reduce it selfe to it wil be most perillous and pernicious too for any of the faithfull to agree with it And I am sure the Hierarchy and our Ordine primus in that was no Tradition Apostolicke So for that ther 's no talke of reducing either for Romes or Canterbury And could you perswade the world to agree with with the Ordine primus at Rome then that speech of yours pag. 182. would easily take place in these our times as well as Irenaeus his time Very great reason was there in Irenaeus his time that upon any difference arising in the Faith Omnes undique fideles all the faithfull or if you will all the Churches round about should have recourse that is resort to Rome being the Imperiall City and so a Church of more powerfull Principality then any other at that time in those parts of the world But the meaning of A.C. is we must so have recourse to Rome as to submit our faith to hers And should I grant them their own sense that all the faithfull every where must agree with Rome which I may give but can never grant yet were not this saying any whit prejudiciall to us now For first here 's a powerfull Principality ascribed to the Church of Rome so you Here are many words conningly woven and packt up together that to discover your full meaning you had need to unâ—old your whole pack Now all round about Rome is a large compasse for the whole world lyes round about Rome it being also at least there the Imperiall City and so a Church of more powerfull Principality then any other which might therfore challenge resort of all unto it as to the onely Oracle for resolving all your faithfull every where in doubts of Faith Yea and if you should grant too that all must submit their faith to Rome you say it were no whit prejudiciall to us now And should you not grant it how should it agree with your necessity of having one Ordine primus For to what purpose should there be one Ordine primus to avoyd confusion iâ— to his Call Summons and Judgement all your faithfull resorting they should not rest this their faith in his Determination Otherwise how should Confusion be avoyded For then to what one Ordine primus should they goe But do you yeeld it or no You say you may give it but can never grant it I pray you whether shall your affirmative giving or your negative granting be of more force Or if you give it how do you not grant it too Yea giving is more then granting If therfore you give it you doe more then grant it But suppose you restrain it onely to Irenaeus his time Had Rome then an Infallible Oracle in the Popes brest Or was his Iudgement the more infallible because his Chaire was in the Imperiall City Or his sentence of the more credit because his Church had the more powerfull Principality Then why in all doubtfull cases of Faith should not all the faithfull in England resort to the Chaire of Canterbury as which hath the most powerfull Principality of all the Prelates in England Why should not the thresholds of your Palace be as much worne with the footsteps of those that come to your Oracle for resolution
be heard among them And for us thy poore handmaids here humbly suppliant before thee let thy holy Spirit direct lead and assist us in the way which may be most acceptable to thy Majesty and profitable for thy People and comfortable to us all in our distressed estate And shew unto thy Servants what thou wouldst have us to doe in this difficult businesse about the presenting of this Reply to the King which with our selves and all thine we humbly commend to thy grace and blessing through Iesus Christ to whom with thee ô Father and the Holy Ghost be all honour and glory now and ever Amen Mother Now my deare Children I will tell you what resolution GOD hath put into my heart upon the very close of this Prayer namely that we addresse our selves to the King with this Reply together with an humble Petition And because all of us perhaps would be too many let as many of you as are willing to attend me goe with me to the King the rest let them goe and be humble suiters at the Throne of Grace that our GOD would give us to find Grace in the eyes of the King so as hearkening to our Petition he may doe accordingly Such therefore of you as are willing to accompany me stand on this side and the rest stand on that side Well I see you are equally divided Six with me and Six for me With me Charity Humilty Prudence Piety Patience and Verity For me Faith Hope Zeale Iustice Mercy Prayer Now my Gracious Children be strong and of a good courage Our Cause is good and GOD is for us and though our enemies be great yet they shall not prevaile against us TO THE KINGS MOST EXCELLENT MAIESTY THE TRVE CHVRCH AND CHILDREN THE TRUE FAITH AND RELIGION OF JESUS CHRIST do humbly present their Petition of Right THAT whereas a Book intituled A Relation of a Conference between WILLIAM LAUDE and Mr. FISHER the Iesuite hath been by the said WILLIAM now of Canterbury lately republished and that under your Majesties Patronage and in the publishing whereof as he saith he hath obeyed your Majesty And whereas A Reply to the said Relation is now under the Patronage of JESUS CHRIST and in obedience to his Word and by assistance of his Grace here published and presented to your Majesty and before all the World in which Reply are detected and clearely evinced by manifold and infallible Testimonies sundry particular passages and Doctrines of the Relator which directly overthrow all true Christian Faith and Religion And whereas in this Reply is clearely proved that Prelaticall Government of the Church or the Hierarchy as they call it is meere Antichristianisme and the very Mistery of Iniquity branded by the Apostle and expresly forbidden by Christ himselfe to his Apostles whose Successors the Prelates falsely pretend to be and that all Prelates even as they are Prelates are both by their Profession and Practise so many Antiâ—hrists adversaries to CHRIST who as the Great Antichrist sit as Gods in the Temple of GOD Lording over the Faith Soule and Conscience of GODS People thrusting CHRIST out of his Throne And whereas notwithstanding the manifest truth hereof confirmed by most cleare Testimony and undeniable Proofes of Scripture the Relator or Prelate hath in his said Relation uttered sundry blasphemous Speeches belying the Wisedome Counsell and Providence of GOD and of CHRIST as making Him the Author and Ordainer of such a Hierarchicall Government of his Church which is to Father upon GOD and CHRIST a most notorious Lye and Falshood where he addes withall a blasphemous New Article of Belief of the Church of England that this is a truth And whereas the Holy Scriptures is and hath been in all Ages and by all Sound and Orthodox Divines both Ancient and Moderne both Forraigne and Domestick universally received held and constantly beleeved and maintained against all Adversaries of the Truth to be the Onely Rule of Faith and Iudge of Controversies in Divinity and alone Selfe-sufficient to give Testimony to it selfe that it is the undoubted Word of GOD as in this Reply also is fully prooved And whereas the Relator notwithstanding hath loded the Scripture with many intollerable reprâ—ohes and blasphemous words of disgrace censuring it as an insufficient witnesse to it selfe and an incompetent Iudge of Controversies in Faith as being both a blinde dumbe and dead Judge and that it hath no light in it selfe but is as a Candle in a box without light till Tradition of the present Church doe light it and the like the very ground of all Infidelity and Apostacie And whereas notwithstanding all such his blasphemies against the Scripture wherewith he hath stuffed some 30 leaves in Follio besides many other the like scattered all along his Book he the same Relator out of his grosse hypocrisie addeth this proud Blasphemy to all the rest That he hath given the Scripture all honour and ascribed unto it Sufficiencie more then enough And whereas also as appeareth in this Reply the Relator belyes and blasphemes the Holy Ghost himselfe making him the Author of most notorious lyes and vanity And whereas the Relator doth define a meere false and counterfeit Catholicke Church contrary to that Holy Catholick Church beleeved in the Creed whereby he overthrowes both that Article of Faith and with all the Communion of Saints teaching that his Catholicke Church though it cease to be holy yet is a true Church of CHRIST still And whereas of and in this his new Catholicke Church which the Relator beleeveth he makes the Church of England and of Rome to be one and the same Church and both to hold one and the same Faith of that his Catholicke Prelaticall Church which Faith is declared in the Reply not to be the true saving Faith and that they both do set up and professe one and the same Religion not different in which Faith and Religion of the Church of England and of Rome he saith as he hath lived so he resolves to dye as much to say as he will live and dye an English-Romish-Catholicke And whereas the Replyer proveth and which no Papist denyeth that the maine substance of the Romish Religion is the Masse And whereas the Relator confesseth that though a simple Papist may as he saith yet no Romanist as a Romanist living and dying in the Roman Faith can be saved and yet this Faith of Rome is the same with that of England wherein he will end his dayes So as the Church of England may hereby see in what a case she is and how highly she is preferred by her Primate as to be brought to be of the same Church the same Faith the same Religion with Rome enough to startle all your Majesties Subjects that till now thought themselves to bo Protestants and no Papists and to cause all zealous Christians to abandon all communion with such a Church as is the same Church of the same Faith and Religion with Rome And wheras
be expected there Can or will the Lord Iesus Christ long suffer such things And what doth England now attempt The recovery of Scotland First ô England be thou thy selfe reconciled to God humble thy selfe for thy fearefull Apostacie revoke and call in all thy ungodly Edicts against Christ and his Word reforme all thy oppressions of Gods People and thine owne maintain not still open warre against the Spirituall Kingdome of Iesus Christ least he destroy thy temporall looke up to God as highly offended with thee and who hath for the present rent a whole Kingdome from thee who hast rent thy selfe from his Kingly Dominion over thee Be no longer rebellious against God stand not upon the confidence of thine own conceited Prudence and Power which unlesse thou hast God on thy side shal be but a snare unto thee and shall stand thee in no stead at thy need except thou dost repent and turn to God unfainedly and refraine thy violent courses and reform all My zeale hath carryed me thus farre for my God and for my King and for my Countrey and for all the People of God and the King in all his Kingdomes my dayly prayer being for Truth and Peace as the Prophet Saith Love the Truth and Peace Truth is both the Mother and Nurse of Peace But to proceed you say No externall action in the world can be uniforme without some Ceremony If you speak of Naturall Actictions nature it selfe doth teach a fit manner in doing of them If of Morall or Civill actions we commonly use such Ceremonies as either humane Lawes Customes or a mans owne reason hath brought in use But if you Speake of Religious actions such as are conversant about the worship of God That 's quite of another nature for point of Ceremony Onely thus farre it holds proportion with the other that as every naturall action hath for its manner of performance and carriage certaine Principles of Nature to guide a Man in the decent and orderly doing of it and as every Civil and Morall action hath for its manner of the decent carriage of it some Rule either intrinsecall within a man and in his own choyce and power or extrinsecall and without him according either to Custome or humane Law even so the externall manner of performing Gods worship hath for its Sole Principle and Rule the will of God himselfe whose service it is and over which he is the Sole Lord whose will for his whole service both internall and externall he hath clearely expressed in his word the holy Scripture And this is a principle which every man that seeth not but by the Spectacles of Natures Light assenteth unto as a firme and universall truth namely That every Master is so to be served as himselfe commandeth And if a Servant presume to serve his Master as himselfe listeth and not as his Master commandeth shall have small thanks for his labour How much more and beyond all comparison is God to be served of us not as we fancie but as himselfe hath expresly commanded in his word And this is a safe obedience wherein a man observing his Rule cannot erre Whereas obedience to Mans command is onely so farre good as the commandement it selfe is good and lawfull But Gods Word and Commandement being every way perfect and given us with a strict charge and under a most severe penalty even a Curse to those that shall either adde to it or detract from it who but Children of the curse will presume to invent what manner of externall service of God his own proud fancie liketh best Such service cannot be called the service of God as wherewith he is served and pleased but the service of Man wherein he pleaseth himselfe Yea when a man hath pleased his own fancie in the invention of this or that Ceremony in religious worship and not content herewith doth withall impose and injoyne it to be of necessity observed of all so as their Conscience is now by humane Law captivated thereunto this service of God becomes Hereticall For what is Heresie in the common use among Divines but an obstinate holding and maintaining of an errour in faith which mans pride hath made choyce of But not onely presumtuously to elect and obstinately and pertinaciously to maintain but to make a Law to enforce others to conform to any such errour in faith this is the highest degree of Heresie that can be And that the inventing holding and imposing of such Ceremonies in Gods worship is an errour in faith and so hereticall is cleare For it is a point and Article of Christian faith to bebeleeve that Christ is the onely Lord and King of his Church and therfore in the Creed we say And in Iesus Christ his onely Sonne our Lord. To whom then doth the power of ordaining Ceremonies in Gods holy service appertaine but to the King or Master of this service This power is Christs Prerogative in his Church This is Christs Throne wherein he sitteth raigneth and ruleth in and over the Soules and Consciences of his people as before is touched He is the onely Teletarkes or Master of ordaining Ceremonies in Gods house or family as the learned Budaeus interprets that word out of Dionisius Areopageta so as TeletarkÃa which signifies a Prerogative and Power in GOD incommunicable to ordaine Ceremonies in his worship is used for the Soveraigne Deity or Godhead and so for the Holy Trinity And Christ hath ever from the beginning reserved this power intire and peculiar to himselfe even as his glory not imparting it to any earthly power not to his Church not to his Prophets and Apostles not to the Kings of Israel under the Law nor to the Fathers before the Law For before the giveing of the Law in Mount Sina GOD taught his Church the use of Sacrifices and Altars and other Rites with the difference of Meates cleane and uncleane At the giving of the Law GOD shewed Moses a pattern for the Tabernacle and all things thereunto belonging with a Charge to doe all things according to the Pattern which he had seen Not the least Ceremony no not a pin about the Tabernacle was left in Moses power or choyce to make of his own head So afterward when the Temple was to be built David received the pattern thereof and of all things appertaining to the whole service thereof from God in writing which David delivering to his Son Salomon appointed of God to build the Temple Said All this the Lord made me understand in writing by his hand upon me even all the worke of this Pattern even the Pattern of all that he had by the Spirit So as though David was a King and a Prophet and that of singular eminency a man according to Gods own heart and aboundantly indued with the holy Spirit of God and the Sweet Psalmist of Israel and though King Salomon was indued with admirable and incomparable wisedome yet the Lord
have stopped all the Ministers mouthes binding them to peace and externall obedience Although I cannot yet conceive how that Declaration should be the Church of Englands though published in the Kings Name and perhaps compiled in the Conclave of Canterbury And thus also that Order for the Altar of S. GREGORIES which yet is but Dormant in Cryptis not published in Print in which respect it cannot be called the Declartion of the Church yet must be of force to bind all Ministers to Peace and Obedience first to Peace not to speake a word against Altars for his Eares and next to Obedience that if he refuse to have an Altar set up in his Church himselfe shal be made a Sacrifice But why should such an Order thus bind I must crave pardon for making Question And the rather because your Lordship here gives us a Rule or Canon saying The Churches Declaration can bind us to Peace and externall Obedience where there is no expresse Letter of Scripture and Sense agreed on Now though we have expresse Letter of Scripture proving Christ to be the onely Altar of Christians as before is shewed yet because this sense is not agreed on by your Lordship and so by your present Church of England therefore men must be peaceable and obedient in that point and quietly submit to Authority in the admitting and the Adoring too if you will of Altars in every Church And so in all other your superstitious Ceremonies of what force is the expresse Letter of the Scripture where the Sense of it is not by you and your Church agreed upon To give an Instance or two more This is my Body the Sense of these words is not agreed on between your Church of England and that of Rome though you are in Substance both one Church what then Ergo Ministers are bound to Peace and Obedience in not medling to or fro with the manner How Christ is present in the Sacrament though your Article of the Lords Supper doth declare it both affirmatively and negatively how it is and is not but to content themselves with Really which is a very peaceable word about which Rome and you have no great reason to fall at oddes Againe for bowing at the nameing of the Name Iesus although you have no expresse Letter of Scripture for it no not Phil. 2.10 where it is Said En to onómati In or as your Translation hath it at the name of Iesus every knee should bow but it is not Said En to onomazethai tò onoma Iesoun or Iesous In the naming of the name Iesus every knee should bow So as that place is plainly expounded and agreed on by other places of Scripture as Isa. 45.23 and Rom. 14.10 as some of your old English Bibles note those places in the Margent over against the place as in that of Isaiah there is set in in the Margent Rom. 14.10 and Phil. 2.10 all which three places unanimously shew the universall Subjection of all Creatures in heaven and earth and under the earth to Christ in the day of Iudgement yet because this Sense is not agreed on by the present Church of England therefore her Declaration in her Canon binds all to Peace and Obedience to Peace in not speaking or writing against bowing at the nameing of the name Iesus nor in preaching to expound the Letter of Scripture Phil. 2.10 by the plain sense of other Scriptures as afore cited and to Obedience by bowing themselves when they heare that Name to be named So as your Lordships Rule here is very usefull for many things although you have neither Letter nor Sense of Scripture for them L. p. 32. The power of adding any thing contrary and detracting any thing necessary are alike forbidden No power of the Church can doe this P. This Sentence you alledge out of Vincentius and allow it So as it is to be accounted your owne Confession which I suppose you will not deny Whereupon you with your Church fall under just condemnation both for adding things contrary and detracting things necessary For you adde to the service of God as you call it your Altars and sundry other superstitionâ— which the Scripture excludes and condemnes and so are contrary and you detract things necessary as Preaching of the saving Doctrines of Grace Preaching on the Lords dayes in the after noon Preaching Week-day Lectures and Cathechising by expounding the Grounds of Religion Which things are necessary profitable and usefull to the people of God and which God commaundeth as 2 Tim. 3.15.16 and 4.1.2 Gal. 6.6 Let him that is Katekoúmenos Cathechised in the word communicate To katekounti to him that Catechiseth or instructeth him in all good things Thus you and your Church take upon you to do those things which are alike forbidden and which no power of the Church can doe though you can L. p. 35. Wrangle while you will you shall never be able to prove that any thing which is but de modo a consideration of the manner of being onely can possibly be fundamentall in the Faith P. Wrangle I will not but prove that some things which are de modo considered in the manner of being onely not onely may possibly but are really in that very respect fundamentall in the Faith So as to deny them or not to beleeve them is in it selfe damnable And hereof I shall give some Instances 1. Christs body in receiving of the Sacrament is to be considered in the mâ—nnâ—r of its being present to the beleeving Communicant In so much as to exclude such manners of being present as doe destroy either the Article of his perpetuall Residence in heaven till his câ—ming againe or the truth of his Naturall Body doth deny and destroy two Articles of the Faith 1. touching Christs sitting 〈◊〉 tâ—e rigâ—â— hand of God from whence he shall come to Judgemâ—â—â— and 2 ly that he was borne of the Virgin Mary with a true humane body As the Papists apprehending and beleeving Christs naturall body to be locally present in the Eucharist doe thereby overthrow his perpetuall residence in heaven till his coming againe and withall the truth of his naturall body which being a true naturall body with all its naturall properties cannot be locally or corporally in many places at one and the same time which yet the corporall presence in the Eucharist doth necessarily import And if the truth of Christs naturall body be destroyed as by the Manichees and other Hereticks Christ is wholly evacuated and shall profit nothing Besides this Popish beliefe of Christs corporall Presence in their Eucharist makes Christs natural body which hath its dimensions of length breadth thicknesse to be a meere fantasticall and imaginaâ—y body as being contained within the narrow circle and compasse of a thinne Wafer-cake and so they destroy Christs body And so also in that they beleeve they eat this body of Christ which is to destroy it as 1 Cor. 6.13 And this beliefe of Christs corporall presence as aforesaid
did locally in Soule descend into Hell the place of the damned without any proofe from Scripture is Sin My reasons are these 1. Because this opens a gappe to men to beleeve humane Traditions to be of Faith to Salvation as of equall credit and authority to the Scriptures Now it cannot be proved that the Creed it selfe with its forme and words and Articles and Title called The Apostles Creed is other then a humane Tradition or that the Apostles composed the Creed Secondly This argues as a too high estimation of a thing humane as if it were autópistos of selfe-Credit so a too base estimation and undervaluing of the holy Scripture as if they alone were not the Rule of Faith or not to be relieâ— and rested on alone for all matters concerning Christian Faith So as to give Credit to any thing else besides the Scripture as of equall Authority with the Scripture as you make your Creed to be and not examining it by the Scripture is a detracting from the Authority of Scripture and consequently a denying of the Scripture to be the Sole Rule of Faith For the Creed it is either a part of the Scripture or not a part if it be not a part of Scripture as indeed it is not then all the Articles of Faith in it being but a small abridgement of Christian Faith and so of necessity and in comparison of Scripture it selfe very obscure and Scanty are to be proved and illustrated from Scripture the Sole Rule of Faith and Tryall of all Truths Thirdly in Particular to beleeve Christs descent in Soule into hell locally must stand with some reason and analogy or proportion of Faith layd downe in the Scripture For Christ did or suffered nothing but the Scripture shews the Reason Cause and End of it For instance Isaiah Saith To us a Child is borne to us a Son is given So the Angel to the Shepheards To you is borne this day a Saviour which is Christ the Lord. This then shews the End of Christs Incarnation namely for our Salvation Then for his Death He was delivered up for our Sins And Forasmuch as the Children were partakers of flesh and blood he also himselfe likewise took part of the Same that through death he might destroy him that had the power of dâ—ath that is the Devil And deliver them who through feare of death were all their life time subject to bondage So for his Resurrection He rose againe for our Iustification So for his Ascention It was that he might send the Holy Ghost and goe to prepare a place in heaven for all his So for his Sitting at Gods right hand There he makes Intercession for his people rules as King his Church in preserving protecting governing his people and makeing his and their foes his Footstoole But for any such thing as Descent into hell neither is it found in the Scripture nor much lesse any reasons given there of it Indeed Peter Speaking of Christs Resurrection alledgeth Psal. 16. Thou wilt not leave my Soule in Hell So in the English In the Hebrew it is commonly taken for the Grave not for the place of the damned But will you take Peters exposition of it Speaking by Christs owne Spirit This saith he David Seeing before Spake of the Resurrection of Christ that his Soule was not left in Hell neither his flesh did see Corruption So then this place Psal. 16. was by the Holy Ghosts owne Interpretation a Prophecie of Christs Resurrection from the Grave and not of any Descent into Hell the place of the damned For he is not said to rise out of hell as you say he went downe into Hell nor to ascend out of Hell as you beleeve he descended into Hell Will you have a particular Article of Christs descent into Hell and shall you not need another Article for his Ascent out of Hell againe And the Apostle saith Christ descended Eis tà katótera mère tes ges to the lowest parts of the Earth which is spoken of his humiliation to the Death and the Grave but here is no word of his Descent into any such place as Hell the place of the damned But admit your Faith to be true that Christs Soule descended locally into Hell I aske to what end or purpose Can you shew any Reason from Scripture for this Will you say his Soule went thither to suffer Surely that had its Consummatum est upon the Crosse there it was finished Will you say he went to triumph over the Devil in his owne Dâ—nne That was also done on his Crosse as on his Triumphall Chariot And can you give any reason why Christ should descend into hell in regard of us What that so he might deliver our Soules out of Hell Surely this also was done in his Death And againe if it were necessary that Christs soule should goe locally into hell to deliver our soules then also it was necessary for his body to descend into hell to deliver our bodies from thence For he came to redeem our bodies as well as our soules Or what els can you Say Certainly what ever you can invent the Scripture will presently discover the vanity of it But for my part I dare beleeve nothing concerning Christ and my Salvation but what the Scripture hath revealed But the Scripture hath revealed no such thing as the Descent of Christs Soule into Hell locally But you will then object unto me Do I not beleeve my Creed and every Article in it I answere I doe Why then say you Doe I not beleeve the Article of Christs Descent into Hell I say I doe being understood or expounded according to the Scripture and the Analogy of Faith therein How is that Christ dyed and in his Passion he suffered the Torments of Hell in his Soule on the Crosse and in the Garden But his Descent into Hell is set after his buriall And doe you not know that the ancient Heathen used to put Hádes for the state of the dead So as katelthein eis hadou is to goe or to abide in the state of the dead which Christ did for 3. dayes and then arose againe and revived So as the Article shewes the continuance of Christs being dead and buried till his Resurrection Againe you know the Nicene Creed mentions onely Christs buriall and no Descent into Hell and Athanasius his Creed katelthen eis hadou He Descended into Hell without speaking a word of his buriall All which doe confirme what I say that christ in being buried remained so long in the State of the dâ—ad his soule seperated from his body and being said to Dâ—scend into Hell hades signifying also the Grave thereby is meant his being buried for so long a time till his rising againe As it is said in the next Article The third day â—e rose againe from the dead that is from the Grave where he abode in the state of the dead Now I have given
you a reason of my Faith Can you give one reason of yours concerning this Article as you take and beleeve it with your Church of England Show but one reason or shadow of a reason out of Scripture Nay except you bring every Article of the Creed to the examen or tryall of Scripture for the staying and establishing of your Faith you may run into many monstrous errours What doe you beleeve concerning Christs death You beleeve that hee dyed But for whom Whether for the Elect onely in Gods Purpose Account Appointment Acceptance or universally for all men Elect and Reprobate I tell you my Lord if you beleeve that Christ dyed for all men universally as well for the Reprobate as the Elect you destroy both Gods Grace in giving Christ for his people onely the Elect and also the merit and effâ—icacy of Christs death The Scripture shewes these things aboundantly But I mention this onely by the way Againe What doe you beleeve concerning the holy Catholicke Church You beleeve I dare say and you doe say it that the Catholicke Church on earth consists visibly of all Prelates and those that are subject unto them as one intire Body This is your Faith But if you examine this by the Scripture you will find it to be an Errour no lesse soule then false as hath been shewed So doe you not beleeve the Article of the Communion of Saints You doe But who are your Saints on earth You will hardly allow any Saints on earth till after their death they be Canonized by his Holinesse at Rome Nay in plaine termes you persecute both the Saints themselves and their Communion Can you indure such as but professe holinesse And for their Communion doe you not hunt out and persecute Private Fasting and Prayer among the poore soules of Christ when publick they can have none and no other remedy or weapons are left them to defend themselves withall against your bloody Cruelty So as the truth is you neither rightly beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church nor the Communion of Saints but are a notorious both denyeâ— and persecuter of both And therefore we see what a necessity there is that we should bring the Articles of the Creed to the Standard Rule the Scripture both as the surest and safest way yea and the onely way to preserve our Faith from Errour But you object the Fathers for the Sense of this Article of Christs Descent into hell as you beleeve it What if they beleeved so Is their example a sufficient Rule for us We must examine their sense they held of it by the Scripture If it be not according to the Scripture we reject it The Fathers might for a time hold an erronious generally received opinion before it came to be controverted and well sifted and examined by Scripture But they were ever ready to have their faith and opinions tryed by the Scriptures All the ancient Fathers were of this mind and spirit As before Pelagius his time the Fathers spake too liberally of Mans Free-will which after upon his Heresie they reformed and by Scripture abundantly confuted the Pelagians and especially Augustine Ierome Prosper Fulgentius Hilarius and others And Augustine inticing a Donatist to dispute about that Heresie Saith unto him Ratione agamus divinarum Scripturarum authoritate agamus Let us dispute the matter by Argument let us be guided by the Authority of the Divine Scriptures Not what I and thou Say but what Christ Saith And this was the Spirit I say and practise of all the Fathers in such cases So as if this Article of of Christs descent into hell had been by occasion of controversie about it well searched into and examined by the Scripture no doubt but the Fathers would therein have regulated their Faith according to the truth of Scripture But the Church of England say you holds and beleeves that Article as you doe No marvaile when you doe And should you hold otherwise must it not doe so too And yet we have but your bare word for it But you will alledge your Article That Christ went downe into hell But we must examine your Article by the Scripture And it is not the sound of your Article but the sense and that it agreeth with Scripture But we have shewed that no such thing is in Scripture And you tell us withall what Mr. Rogers upon the Articles saith of this That then Then I say in diebus illis the Church of England was not resolved of this Article and he was then the Arch-bishop of Canterbury his Chaplein your Predecessor Richard Bancroft But now your Lordships bare word is enough to Sway the Ballance which before stood but in aequilibrio in an even peize not resolved but now resolved But this I can tell you what ever your Church of England now beleeves there is and I hope a good sound Church of Christ yet in England that beleeves the Creed and all the Articles thereof and this in particular no otherwise then they find them agreeable to the Scripture and the Analogy of Faith And this is agreeable to that which once a Prelâ—te of England said By the generall confâ—ssion of all Antiquity Traditions must he warranted by the Scriptures or els we must reject them And Isidore saith A Prelate if he teach or command any thing besides that which is evidently cammanded in the holy Scriptures let him be taken for a false witnâ—ssie to God and a committer of Sacriledge But looking a little further I find you confessing That the Church of England hath not determined as yet either way by open Declaration upon this Article No hath she not How then doe you affirme and would perswade us that you beleeve with the Church of England that Christ descended into hell without any further Dispute We hope therefore it will not be long before your Declaration come forth with a Definitive Sentence determining the sense of this Article one way or other And the rather because in the late Declaration before the Articles wherein this Article of Christs going down into hell is particularly set downe for one they are declared to be of ambiguous sense and yet men must hold to the letter of the Article So as by that Declaration we are lesse resolved of the Articles then before A new Declaration therefore we would faine see which is cleare Declarative and Determinative and therein tell us whether Christs Soule descended into Hell the place of the damned or into Purgatory the Suburbs of hell and whether Locally and for what end and purpose because the Scripture is altogether silent in this whole mystery and whether you find hell to be in the Center of the Earth or no because your Article saith He went down into hell c. But in the mean time I have for my part ingenuously given you a reason of my Faith touching this Article which I am so resolved on by the Scripture that whatsoever Declaration you or your Church of England
shall set forth to the contrary I must crave pardon if it be not of the same faith with you And thus farre you allow any in the Church of England this liberty for your words are Is it not lawfull for any in the Church of England to say I conceive thus or thus of it c Although you adde L. p. 51. It is one thing to hold an opinion privately within himselfe and another thing boldly and publickly to affirme it P. I doe I confesse boldly and publickly affirme this my faith concerning this Article which my faith I doe assure my selfe is true being grounded upon good and cleare evidence of the Scripture on which my faith is built and not upon any thing of humane Authority And in making open confession of this my faith I doe therin follow the Rule of Scripture which saith Bretheren if any of you doe erre from the Truth and one convert him Let him know that he which converteth a Sinner from the errour of his way shall save a Soule from death and shall hide â— multitude of Sinnes Now what know I that this Declaration of my Faith with Reasons from the Scripture may by Gods grace be a meanes to convert if not your Lordship from your errour yet others or may preserve them from falling into it being dangerously entred into it by such an example as your selfe And however if it be lawfull for you boldly and publickly to affirme such things of beliefe which are not found to be in Scripture why may it not be as lawfull for me boldly and publickly to affirme the Contrâ—ry But the Scope of your Speech as I conceive is to maintaine your practise in punishing in High Commission such as expound this Article by and according to the Scripture L p. 53. For that all the Positive Articles of the present Church of England are grounded upon Scripture we are content to be judged by the joynt and constant beliefe of the Fathers which lived within the first foure or five hundred yeares after CHRIST when the Church was at the best and by the Councels held within those times and to submit to them in all those points of Doctrine P. But first as is before noted as you give accasion why have you made your Articles to be DÃpsucoi of a double sense So as in that respect how can you call them Positive being so perplexed in themselves And againe Whom doe you meane here by Wee I suppose you and your church of England You are contented to be Judged by Fathers and Councels within the first 500. yeares whether your Church-Articles be grounded on Scripture or not Are you contented so indeed Then you must be contented to undergoe the Censure of departing both from the judgement of the Scriptures as disavowing them for the onely rule of Faith and Doctrines to be tryed by and also from the joynt and constant beliefe both of Fathers and Councels within the first 500. yeares For their joynt constant and unanimous beliefe was that nothing besides the Scripture is to be Judge in matters of Faith And if you want leasure to read the Fathers doe but peruse the learned Discourses and Disputes of the Divines of the Church of England before your being a Prelate as Dr. Carleton of the Church De Ecclesia Dr. Whitakers forementioned Dr. White his way to the true Church Dr. Bilson yea and all those that have written of these Controversies and they will abundantly show this that it was ever held as a Principle and therefore not to be denyed nor needfull to be proved and which Dr. Carleton in his said Book proves never to have been altered till in and by the Councel of Trent That the Scripture is the sole rule of Faith But thus you and your Church of England are contented to be one and the Same Church with Rome in refusing the Scripture as the Sole Iudge of your Doctrines But will you be judged by the joynt and constant beliefe of Fathers and Councels within the first 500. yeares whether your Articles about Grace Election Predestination c. bearing as you Declare a double and opposite sense in their Pelagian and Arminian sense be according to the Scriptures or no If I name onely Augustine who was Pelagionorum Malleus that Hammer to knock down the Pelagians both the Fathers and Councels within those first 500. yeares did joyntly and constantly professe that which he writ to be the Beliefe of the whole Church it was so clearely and fully proved out of Scripture In so much as you may read in the Histories of the Councels as in Binius how that some Councels and Bishops of Rome set downe Large Passages in Augustins Tracts against the Pelagians as the Jugement of the Catholick Church and the particular Decrees and Acts of such and such councels If then you will stand to the Judgement of those ancient Fathâ—rs and Councels then you must at their Barre hold up that hand which was a chiefe instrument in drawing up the said Declaration which hath so enigmatized and darkened the Articles as they have no other Light left but a kind of twilight which inclines rather to the night then to the day rather to favour the Pelagian Heresie then the Orthodox verity But this being your language all along that you put not onely your Articles and the Articles of the Creed but the Mysteries also of the Scriptures to the Iudgement of the Primitive Church Fathers Generall Councels we will Supersede from speaking more of it in this place Again where you say that the Church was then at the best if you understand it during the age and time of the Apostles 't is most true but if of the Succeding ages within 500. yeares we may doubt of it or rather resolve the contrary unlesse you meane it comparatively to the ages after that wherein Antichrist and the Mystery of Iniquity began more brightly to shine forth and display themselves in the Roman Sea both in corruption of doctrine and of Gods worship beyond all excesse For you may know that within the space of the first 500. yeares the Church was so overgrown and pestered with the heresie of Arius as the world groaned under it wondering it was become an Arian as Hierome speakes Totus ingemuit mundus miratus se factum esse Arianum And among many corruptions and much unsoundnesse in Doctrine what multitudes of Superstitious devises and heathenish Customes not onely crept but crowded into the service of God Which Heathenish Rites as we find in B. Rhenanus his Annotations upon Turtullian were by the Christians in a kind of carnall policie admitted both because many ancient men being converted to Christianity such as it was could not easily part with their old Customes as also that thereby they might draw other of the Gentiles to become Christians Just such a policie as our new Doctors I meane of your Church of England have used in a pretence at least making us beleeve
your 16 th Sextion mentioned before which continueth from p. 59. to 116. wherein are sundry passages â—o this purpose whereof the last was one and the rest we shall touch as we meet with them And here I cannot though I said I would no more wonder but admire that such Speeches should flow down so fast from the Sea of Canterbury which is a mighty Catarrhact or distillation of the eye drowning the sight and flowing from such an abundant humour in the head as it is like to turne into a Dropsie possessing and putrifying the whole body which if not prevented by some remedy from hâ—aven must needs prove Epedemically mortall You are the first Antagonist of Iesuites that ever uttered such things and you might well have given them leave to utter such base Speeches of the holy Scriptures as more proper for a Jesuite then one pretending the Faith of a Protestant But the difference is not great nor matters is much which of you be the mouth having all one Spirit and being all one and the Same Church So as being the Metropolitan of that Church which with Rome is one and the Same you have the greater priviledge to speake in the language of that pregnant Mother who is so full of the names of Blasphemy against the word of God Now is not the Scripture so demonstratively evident in it selfe as to enforce assent What then shall doe it Probable Arguments from the light of Nature But Nature is blind as we shewed before of naturall Reason And againe how can that which is but probable confirme that which is truth For the Scripture is Truth it selfe As Christ saith Thy word is Truth Now there being strictly no proportion between Probability and Truth how can the Light of Nature which you say is but probable confirme that which is truth And we shewed also how the Naturall man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God which things are contained in the Scripture But you adde Arguments from humane Testimony confirme the Scriptures to be Gods word That which is but humane cannot strengthen that which is Divine I receive not the Testimony of man saith Christ. So the Scripture is so farre above humane testimony that it can receive no strength from it no more then God can receive strength from the creature Gods word from mans word And the Scripture being Gods written word is above Mans bare word As Christ tells the Jewes who took Christ for a meere Man If ye beleeve not Moses his writings how shall you beleeve my words Thereby implying That Writings the Scripture are above mans words Againe humane testimony in Comparison to Gods word is but a lye For every man is a lyer Moreover in saying The Scripture is not evident enough to demonstrate it selfe to be the word of God and to enforce assent but being strenthened by Probable Arguments from the light of Nature and of humane Testimony 't is then wilfullnesse and pride to suspect it Here you set the light of Nature above the word of Grace probability above Truth humane Testimony above Divine Man above GOD. For Christ tells us that the Scriptures beare witnesse of him And you Say the Scriptures are not sufficient witnesses of themselves and so consequently of Christ without mans testimony So as hereby you disable the Scripture as being an incompetent witnesse of Christ because not evident enough in themselves without humane Testimony So as how you can cleare your selfe from blasphemy I see not But this is but one degree For you adde The light which is in Scripture is not light enough it cannot beare sufficient witnesse to it selfe Now you open your mouth a little wider to blaspemy But we shall have yet more of ths Suffe out of your Wardrobe Of which I may say this by the way That you bewray how grosly and palpably blind you are in discerning the Scriptures glorious brightnesse being like that Woman in Lipsius who being blind her selfe blamed the house she was in for being very darke So you because you are blind your selfe the god of this world having blinded your eyes therefore you blame the holy Scriptures of GOD for being darke not bright enough to to beare witnesse to it selfe Why Surely all light is Sui index sui Communicativum it is a witnesse to it selfe that it shineth So as all in the house doe see it yea though it be but the light of a Candle as Christ saith If therefore the Scriptures have not so much light in them as all may see it to shine forth then they have no light at all For if there be any light at all it will shew it selfe But this you will not stick to tell us anon that the Scripture hath no light in it selfe and therefore no mervaile if here you say the Light that is in it is not bright enough And you tell us here also That the Testimony of the Holy Ghost ordinarily is not so much as considerable in this Question Why What is the Question Is it not how or by what meanes we beleeve the Scriptures to be the word of GOD Is not this the Subject Question of this whole 16 th Section and which you handle throughout And this being so have you forgotten what you told us before of this beliefe that the Scripture is the word of GOD Namely that faith is the gift of God of God alone and an infused habit in respect whereof the Soule is meerely recipient and that the sole infuser is the Holy Ghost and Till the Spirit of God move the heart of man he cannot beleeve And now doe you come and tell us The Holy Ghost ordinarily is not so much as considerable in the Question Yea but here you tell us this is not the Question What then Namely how the Scripture may be proposed as a Credible Object fit for beliefe And for this you set us downe a rule of Proposall which must of necessity take its rise from the Tradition or Authority of the Present Church Whereof we shall heare more anon But by your leave this is not the Question but the other For this your manner of Proposall you put it not as a Question but as an a'Ãtema a Question begged not to be argued and disputed upon as the nature of a Question is to be but you doe dogmatÃzein obtrude and force upon us a novell opinion of your owne devising without proofe of Reason Argument or Authority from the Scripture And therefore we deny your Question or Position as Heterodox or a Paradox contrary to the truth of God word which is the onely rule of determining all Questions in Divinity about faith whereof this is not the least How or by what meanes a man comes to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God Now for the determining herof you would tye us to the one only manner of Proposing the Scripture as a Credible object fit for beliefe and that is necessarily to
is in the Scripture such a light as is of force to breed faith Nay you have already again and again and I know not how often expresly and flatly denyed that there is in Scripture so much light as of it self hath force to breed so much faith as to beleeve it to be the word of God And this was all the Question with you but even now But how comes in this Negative Not to make a perfect knowledge The Question was not all this while whether the Scripture had so full a light in it as to make a perfect knowledge But seeing you took this in to cast a myst before mens eyes that they may not so easily discern your jugling trick in answering A.C. and yet keeping your credit as if you herein maintained no other thing then what they Divines of the Church of England have held that which you say the Jesuite pretends I will answere this too That all Orthodox Divines do hold and that according to the Scripture that there is in it such a full and cleare light as to make a perfect knowledge For First there is a knowledge perfect and 2 ly we have no other Schoolmaster to teach it but the Scripture and 3 ly this perfect knowledge is required of Christians Be not children in understanding saith the Apostle but in understanding be men So the English hath it But the Originall is tais dè phresì téleio gÃnesthe In understanding or wisdome be ye perfect So Heb. 6.1 Wherfore leaving the Principles of the Doctrine of Christ let us be caried on to perfection That is to perfection of Knowledge in the mystery of Christ. Now this knowledge is no where but in the Scripture and so this perfection no way to be attained unto but by the Scripture as the onely rule and meanes thereof So the Apostle to Timothy saith From a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto Salvation through faith which is in Christ Iesus All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousnes that the man of God may be perfect thorowly furnished unto all good works So as Tertullian might well say Adoro plenitudinem Scripturarum I adore or admire the fullnesse of the Scriptures It is a Fountaine yea an Ocean of Knowledge And if we cannot attaine to that full perfection of Knowledge in this life which is to be found in the Scripture it is defectus vasis non fontis the defect is in the vessell mans soule For we know but in part and we prophecy in part saith the Apostle and not in the fountaine the Holy Scripture which is like Iacobs Well full of Water but deep so as every one hath not such a lage vessell and long line as can draw forth a full measure of knowldge out of it yet he may draw for a plenitude or fullnesse of the vessell according to its quantity and the proportion of Faith given to every man yet not so exactly full by reason of our infirmity and in-capacity of our vessell which is partly of a leaking condition plenus rimarum as he said full of cracks and a great deale we lose in the very drawing of it up as a bucket doth of water before it come to the toppe So as the defect is not in the Well wherein it was but now over head and eares as we Say under water and fuller then it could hold but in the bucket in bringing it up or containing and retaining of it L. p. 87. Faiths evidence is not so cleare for it is of things not seen Heb. 11.1 in regard of the object and in regard of the subject that sees it is in enigmate in a glasse or darke speaking Now God doth not require a full demonstrative knowledge in us that the Scripture is his word and therefore in his Providence hath kindled in it no light for that but he requires our faith of it and such a certaine demonstration as may fit that And for that he hath left sufficient light in Scripture to Reason and Grace meeting when the Soule is morally prepared by the Tradition of the Church P. Speaking Still of that Faith whereby a man beleeves the Scripture to be the word of God which Faith is Historicall here you confound it with the Saving justifying Faith just as the Papists doe For as they so you here alledge for your faiths unclean evidence Heb. 11.1 where the Apostle describes Faith thus Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen By which very description it is cleare and evident that he speakes not of that Historicall Faith of Scripture common to all men but of the Saving Faith peculiar to Gods Elect Tit. 1.1 and given to the Saints Jude 3. which notwithstanding comprehends in it the Historicall Faith of Scripture to be the word of God and that in a higher degree and measure then any Reprobate can have even as the Rationall Soule of man being it comprehends in it the Sensitive faculty in a more excellent manner then it is in the bruit beasts and the Vegetative faculty in a more excellent manner then it is in the plants because as the sensitive and vegetative qualities of the soule of man being comprehended under the Rationalls are subjected to the rule and command of Reason and so doe participate in some kind of the very nature of the Rationall faculty man being both moving and seeing and hearing and smelling and tasting and touching not as a bruit beast but as a Reasonable creature So Historicall Faith being comprehended under the Saving and Justifying Faith in a true beleever it is in him more excellent and advanced to a higher pitch of perfection then it is or can be in a naturall man so as it participates so farre of that plerophorÃa tes pÃsteoes that full assurance of Saving Faith as that it not onely apprehends and beleeves the Scripture to be the word of God but doth beleeve it so certainly and firmly and with such an affiance and affection as that the Beleever will rather dye then for the terrours of death it selfe be brought to deny this truth And what is this trow you but a full and certaine demonstrative knowledge that perswades him to this But for This Historicall Faith in a meere naturall man or one unregenerate though he be sufficiently convinced in his Conscience that the Scripture is the word of God yet he hath neither so much affiance in it nor affection to it as that he wil be content to loose life and all if need be for the maintenance of this truth This full Demonstration he wants But for that Faith which the Apostle speakes of and describes Heb. 11.1 which you make to be your Historicall Faith and the evidence of it in regard of the objest not so cleare as being of things not seene it is
Preachings by word of mouth of the Lawfully sent Pastors and Doctors of the Church are able to breed in us Divine and Infallible Faith Nay are the very word of God So A. C. expresly And no lesse then so have some accounted of their owne Factious words to Say no more then as the word of God †in the margent at this marke For the freeing of Factious and Silenced Ministers is termed The restoring of Gods word to its Liberty In the Godly Author of the Late Newes from Ipswitch p. 5. P. That the Sermons and Preachings by word of mouth of the Lawfully sent Pastors and Doctors of the Church are able to breed in men Divine and Infallible Faith being according to the Rule and Evidence of Scripture as true Preaching is what good Christian makes a doubt though you deride it I pray you you that are the great Rabbi and Champion of the present Church of England What Say you of the Apostles words How shall they call on him in whom they have not beleeved And how shall they beleeve in him of whom they have not heard And how shall they heare without a Preacher And how shall they Preach except they be Sent So then Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God But we shall heare your judgement by and by As for A. C. with whom you yoak the precise party in the same sentence surely were he no Jesuite nor illegitimate Priest but either a Sound Christian or a Lawfully sent Pastor and Doctor of the Church of Christ the words rightly meant and understood are most true I remember I have read a Story of a Grecian State I take it of Athens where when a vitious Senator in Court on a time gave very good Counsell for the Common-Weale they approved of the Counsell but would not have it Registred in his name but caused an honest man to utter the same forme of words in Court and so under his name it was recorded So I may here Let a good Christian or if you will one of the precise party you mention utter these words and not A. C. and then the sense wil be good and true And by your own words we shall convince you of folly by and by Now for the precise party in the Reformed Churches doe you not meane those who are most reformed in their life and conversation and most refined from the drosse and dregges of all Deformed Churches Superstitions and Idolatries in the pretended worship of God and from all grosse errours in Faith and Doctrine Surely those you must and do meane as whom you most deadly hate and therefore in your wretched malice do couple them with A. C. Of which precise party Iesus Christ is the head that pure and precise Nazarite and Seperatist from all sin and errour with all the Apostles Prophets and Martyrs And what do they say No lesse say you then A. C And what faith A.C. Expresly that Sermons c. as before are the expresse word of God And how prove you that this precise party saith no lesse Nay you say more that they account their own Factious words no lesse to say no more then as the word of God To Say no more Nay surely you have said enough if it be true But if not true a great deale too much Well true or not true 't is enough you Say it and so you make this precise party to be ten times worse then the Jesuite And so you would have it For say you the Jesutie saith Sermons are the very word of God but the Precise That their own factious words are What The word of God No but As the word of God Why do you call them factious words because they are As the word of God Doe you not know that true Preachers words should be hoes logâ—â—â—eou as the Oracles or word of God as Peter speakes such words as become Sound Doctrine Sound Speech that cannot be condemned but unjustly by such as doe heterodidaskalein teach strange Doctrines and agree not to wholsome words keeping the Forme of Sound words But you charge here the precise party with factious words How prove you that For Si sat est accusasse quis innocens erit If your single Accusation be sufficient who shal be Innocent But you bring your proofe è Scriptis good evidence sure What 's that †For the freeing of factious and Silenced Ministers is termed The restoring of Gods word to its Liberty But where do you find these factious words In the Godly Author of the late Newes from Ipswich Well then here be 2 things obserbable 1. The Matter 2. the Author 1. The Matter charged The freeing of factious and Silenced Ministers is termed The restoring of Gods word to its Liberty And who are these factious and Silenced Ministers Namely a matter of about an hundred godly and Conscientious Ministers in Norfolke Suffolk Essex Kent Surrey and other Shâ—res who were in one Summer and the most in the Circuit of one Visitation some silenced some suspended some also excommunicated from Church and Chimney ab Aris ac Focis aqua igni and with their Wives and Children exposed to beggery and all calamity Wherefore They were factious Wherein They would not obâ—y and conforme to the Orders of their Ordinary What Orders For the reading in their severall Congregations the Book for Sports on the Lords dayes For the setting up of Altars in their Chancels For the causing of their People never accustomed to it before to come up to the Altar and there receive the Communion or the Lords Supper on their knees For these and the like which they refused to do they are doomed Factious But the Ministers aledged these were new Impositions praeter praescriptum Legis besides the prescript Law or Statute so as their obedience should have incurred a Premunire No matter for that They are a sort of factious fellows and ringleaders of Puritan-people as you apologised in the Starre-Chamber and so being once silenced 't is too late to talk Yet these men were all Conformists to the Discipline by Law established and lived peaceably How then were they Factious Why surely they would not observe Orders They would notwithstanding an Order to the Contrary preach twice every Lords day They would open the Catechisme-points and not content themselves with the bare words of Question and Answere as it is in the Booke they would hold the people so long with their preaching in the Afternoons that they had no time left to goe to their Laudable Sports nor could the people enjoy their pleasures with a quiet Conscience the Ministers would so trouble them with pressing the Sanctification of the Sabbath according to the 4th Commandement and the like Well then diligent Preachers they were and they preached the word of God by expounding and applying it which we shall heare you by and by to commend if we may beleeve your words when we see your deeds contrary So
Tradition introduceth the knowledge of them P. I doe but name these your words as before being but an Inculcation and Confirmation of such things as I have abundantly Confuted before Onely this I adde That if the Scripture be not before the Tradition or Authority of the present Church whence hath the present Church this her Authority and so whence her Testimony the Credit to be of that absolute necessity to bring men to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God Must you not be forced to come into the same Circle where a little before you found A.C. as to say which yet you never went about to prove to prevent the losse of your labour the Scripture authoriseth Church-Tradition and Church-Tradition necessarily introduceth beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God But if you be in this Circle there I leave you L. p. 121. This Principle then The Scriptures are the Oracles of God we cannot say is cleare and fully manifest to all men simply and in selfe-light for the reasons before given P. The Reasons we have weighed and found them too light But to all true beleevers in Christ This Principle The Scriptures are the Oracles of God is cleare and fully manifest and that simply and in selfe-light For the reasons and proofes before given and which all true Christians and Saints of God Confesse L. ibid. Yet we say After Tradition hath been our Introduction the Soule that hath but ordinary Grace added to Reason may discerne light sufficient to resolve our Faith that the Sun is there P. As this so often repeated by you usque ad nauseam as crambe bis cocta Coleworts twise boyld and to no other purpose it seemeth but to fill the empty belly of this your volume and to make your present Church Authority swell the bigger with its ventosity is but a repetion of the former So I shall not need to repeat the Refutation Onely this Do or can you discerne the Sun in the Scripture by the light of your divine Candle your Church Tradition And hath it not so much shining light or is it so over-clouded or ecclipsed with the black letters as nothing but the Authority of the present Church must in the first place put to her hand to withdraw the Curtaine Surely the Sun is so glorious in it selfe as be it never so much clouded yet that will shew day above our heads if we doe but looke up L. ibid. Now men may be apt to thinke out of Reverence that Divinity can have no Science above it But your own Schoole teacheth me that it hath namely The knowledge of God and of the blessed in heaven P And truly my Lord how ever you account and Reverence Divinity yet for my part I do not onely most highly reverence it but conceive and beleeve the excellencie of it to be so transcendent as I hold there can be no Science above it For what is Divinity in its native and proper Notion Divinity in its proper Prime and most sublime Notion is the Deity or God-head it selfe Theiòtes signifying the Divinity or Deity the derivation from â—eòs GOD. This is the Prime Notion of this word Divinity The second Notion of Divinity is pan tò gnoston tou Theou all which may be known of God which being in God as the light in the Sun comes to be made known unto us as by so many beames shining partly though in Comparison more obscurely in his works and partly and that most clearely in his word and most gloriously in Christ the Sun of Righteousnesse himselfe the brightnesse of his Glory and the expresse Image of his Person the very light of the Scripture and so of his Church And of this Divinity as Christ is the full patterne and perfect platforme so the Essence of the eternall Deity and the subsistances of the 3 Persons in that one Godhead together with all the glorious Attributes of God but also the whole Mystery of Christ the Redeemer comprehending and expressing whatsoever is necessary for us to know and beleeve for our Salvation In which respect the Scripture may be called and that most proproperly as by a Title proper to it quarto modo Gods Divinity-Booke and his Churches Divinity-Schoole So that in the Scripture we have a most perfect and Compleat body of Divinity of all Divinity of whatsoever holy knowledge of God and of Christ and of our selves requisite to our Salvation and the setting forth of the Glory of God In which respect unlesse a man will presume above that which is written we may truly say That Divinity being but one and the same and Science therof one and the Rule of this Science but one all comprehended in the Scripture That Divinity hath no Science above it Yet your Lordship hath learned in the Iesuites or Romes Schoole wherein it seems you have been more trained up then in Christs Schoole That Divinity hath a Science above it And what is that super-science I pray you The knowledge of God say you and of the blessed in heaven If you meane such a knowledge of God and of the blessed in heaven as is not revealed in the Scripture I say Quae supra nos quid ad nos And it is presumption to conceive of any other knowledge of God fit for us to know then what is revealed in the Scripture wherein is declared the whole counsell of God concerning his Glory and our everlasting good And for the knowledge of the blessed in heaven If you meane of the blessed Angels we may know as much of them as the Scripture hath made known unto us But this knowledge is not a Science above Divinity And if you meane the knowledge of the blessâ—d Saints in heaven it is the same with that of the Saints on earth onely Differing in Degrees of perfection Or if you had meant the knowledge that is in God and in the blessed in heaven you should so have exprest it In and not Of. But I think you speake of such a speculation as is above the Spheare of our expression Onely something though it be de non ente you must say that we may take notice what a profound Proficient you are in Romes Schoole in teaching us such a sublime and hyperbolicall Science as is inexpressible in Babylons language and therfore the fitter to darken the lustre of that Divinity which so gloriously shineth and is so exactly set forth in the Scripture But you have plentifully shewed us what Reverence you beare to this Divinity L. p 122. In the margent I would fain know why leaning too much upon Tradition may not mislead Christians as well as it did the Iews P. And I would fain know why leaning so much upon Tradition of the present Church as you doe might not be the Cause that hath lead you so much to undervalue the Scriptures and may not mislead Christians by teaching them as base an opinion of the whole Scripture as the Jewes have
Rule of Faith the Scripture Implying that to hold the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith is one speciall note of A true Church But now you confesse againe that Rome holds not this Rule but as a partiall and imperfect Rule And therefore denying this Rule of Faith she ceaseth to be a pure Church of Christ And which is the more this the Church of Rome doth ex professo solemni Decreto professedly and by solemne Decrees ratified as irrefragable and that under Anathema to be received of all And this is farre more then to doe it by Practise onely And yet in Practise to destroy and overthrow but onely some speciall Doctrines of Scripture though otherwise the Scripture be professed and confessed in this or that particular Church to be the intire and onely Rule of Faith is de facto to disclaime the whole Scripture and to unmake it the perfect Rule of Faith and so thereby such a Church possessing such and such Errors as are Fundamentall that is against the Foundation is fallen from Christ as hath been formerly proved Now if but any one part of Scripture in this or that Doctrine of Christ be overthrown so as therein it is not made the Rule of Faith and this overthrowing such Doctrines being once professed and maintained generally in any one particular Church makes that Church to cease to be a true Church of Christ as not holding the Scripture intirely but professedly overthrowing it in such and such particulars then how much more the Church of Rome professing and maintaining gumne kephale with a whores forehead that the holy Scripture is not the onely Rule of Faith intire and perfect but partiall and imperfect as your Lordship confesseth doth thereby proclaime her selfe to all the world to be fallen away absolutely from Christ and so ceaseth to be a true Church of God And denying the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith she denyeth the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone and so is fallen quite from the Foundation Nor onely thus by Addition of another Rule doth the Church of Rome overthrow the onely Rule of Faith the Scriptures but also by denying the selfe Authority of them as also you doe and withall by tying the sense of Scripture to the interpretation of the Church as also you doe at least in difficult places and by holding and maintaining false Doctrines against the Scriptures which overthrow Christ and wherein they will not be regulated by the Scriptures as you also doe in your Altars and forbidding the Doctrines of Grace to be Preached and other things which if the Church of England hold with the Church of Rome and with you you and both your Churches are fallen absolutely from Christ and so cease to be true Churches of God As also your very Hierarchy makes you to be no true Church of Christ were there nothing else as before is sufficiently proved And if you desire any further proofe that the Church of Rome is no true Church of Christ I still referre you to the forementioned Book Babel no Bethel And though you supprest the Book yet ten to one but one of your Hounds will hunt it out for you Next for the Sacraments which is your second Reason you say The Church of Rome holds both the Sacraments as instrumentall Causes and Seales of Grace though they adde more and misuse these Ergo she cannot but be a true Church in Essence For Answere First she holds them not absolutely to be Sacraments but dependently upon the Priests intention which you mention elsewhere And so hath the Councel of Trent defined of the Sacraments so Vega so Bellarmine Secondly if she be sure the Priests intention be not wanting or going a wool-gathering in his Consesecration then she makes the Sacraments to be not Instrumentall Causes of Graces but aitia kúria Principall and efficient working causes of Grace ex opere operato as they barbarously speake by the immediate vertue of the worke wrought So the Councel of Trent also So as they shut out the Holy Ghost from this worke as the Principall Efficient worker and sealer of Grace Thirdly For Baptisme which you make to be an Infallible Marke of that Church to be Christian besides their infinite corruptions of the Element of water which the Apostle calleth pure water with their spittle salt creame exorcismes or conjurations of the Devils insultations and the like they hang the very beeing not onely the vertue of this Sacrament upon the Priests intention which intention of the Priest is so uncertaine as Vega one of the prime Sticklers in the Councel of Trent as aforesaid in his Booke upon the Councel of Trent especially the sixt Session where he treateth of certainty of Faith in Iustification Confesseth that there can be no certainty of Salvation to a man because he cannot be certain whether he hath true Baptisme or no and that in regard of the Priests intention whereof he cannot be certaine So as by this their own Doctrine no one Papist can be sure that he is a Christian and so consequently neither can all the members of that Church severally nor conjunctly the whole Body it selfe be sure whether they or it be Christian or no and so the Church of Rome upon this very ground cannot resolve certainly whether she be a Church of Christ or no unlesse your Testimony will help her out at a dead lift And that not onely in regard of the Priests intention in the Sacrament of Baptisme but also in their Additionall Sacrament of Orders one of these more which they have added to the two So as for default of the Popes intention in ordering of Prelates or of the Prelates invention in ordering one another and in ordering of Priests and of Priests intention in Consecrating their Sacrament of Baptisme as themselves Vega and others do argue the case they are all put to the stagger whether they have in that Church either Priesthood or Sacraments For all hangs upon that weake pin or haire of the Priests intention So as another of their Primipili a Standard-bearer of the Dominicans in the same Councell Dominicus Soto forementioned in his Book de natura gratia saith that Deus in potestate Sacerdotis posuit Populi salutem GOD hath put the peoples Salvation in the Priests power Now all this considered and withall the time when this was made a Decree in the Councel of Trent a matter of 100 yeares agoe and when it was but new and the Pope and Prelates and Priests could not perhaps of a good while learne their lesson perfectly and so get a habit of it but that in all their Consecration of Prelates and Priests still intention was to seek and where it breakes off as in the Pope and Prelates in their Consecration of Orders there followes a meere nullity in succession of the whole Generation of Priests downwards and so through that whole body no Priesthood now no Sacraments
the making of it That is That it is ill very ill done of those who ever they be Papists or Protestants that give just cause to continue a seperation P. Here you speake plain Papists or Protestants and why not then Protestants as well as Papists that did very ill in making the seperation as they doe ill in continuing of it But yet your meaning here may possibly be that as it was ill done of the Roman party to give the first cause of the separation so it were no lesse ill done to continue the same cause to the continuing of the Schisme You may doe well to perswade Rome to lay down all her Corruptions which the Protestants have and doe protest against her that so if the Schisme be any longâ—r continued it may then appeare to be long of the Protestants â—ut if Rome be obstinate and incorrigible in her errors you have no reason to say it is ill done on the Protestant party to continue the Schisme But it may be perhaps ill done of the Protestant Church of England notwithstanding to continue the Schisme for as it may be well done of you to sowder it againe And therfore while the case is thus in agitation and Rome maks no more hast to meet you the multitude of her impedimenta bagge and baggage and all kind of Trumpery retaining her peace and which in no sort she will part withall and so will not stirre a foot over Tiber what 's wanting on her part you will supply with all expedition dressing up her sister the Church of England in Romes fashion unto such a conformity and symphony as promiseth a making up of the maâ—ch with all faults on both sides sooner perhaps then Rome could hope for L. ibid. The Kings and the Church of England had no reason to admit of a publick Dispute with the English Romish Clergy till they should be able to shew it under the Seale or Powers of Rome That that Church will submit to a third who may be an Indifferent Iudge between us and them or to such a Generall Councel as is after mentioned P. First the English Romish Clergie are by the Laws of England Traitors and therfore to be disputed withall at Tiburne So as if you put them to shew their warrant to dispute with you under Romes seale they will require of you perhaps to shew them under Englands seale an abrogation of the Laws against them And you tell us before that the Church of England knows well that a Parliament cannot be called at all times Nor will the Powers of Rome permit their Religion to be disputed on And whom will you chuse to dispute with them some peaceable men that will not be apt to fall out with the Jesuites your Lordship being Moderator But you know Rome denyes the Rule of Faith the Scripture And Contra negantem Principia non est disputandum Who shall else be the Umpier Who the Third Who the Indifferent Iudge Could both the Churches joyntly chuse a more Indifferent Iudge then your selfe Sure Rome her selfe would nominate you before Bellarmine himselfe if he were living A Generall Councel indeed of Romish English and other Prelates might do much so you should be sure to exclude all the Protestant Reformed Churches for wranglers as Franciscus à S. Clara well adviseth And then if a Generall Councel should reconcile and compose all differences though never so erroniously yet the Error must stand till another Generall Councel shall reverse it as you tell us at after But you adde L. p. ibid. and 146. And this is an honest and I think a full Answer And without this all Disputation must end in a clamour and therfore the more publick the worse because as the Clamour is the greater so perhaps wil be the Schisme too P Nay my Lord if you stand upon termes of honesty indeed you should have nominated the Scripture for the onely sufficient and upright Iudge between you This had been honest in one that professeth but the name onely of a Protestant But for that you told us enough before whereby we understand that this point of honesty is no part of your meaning But if your Answere were not in this respect honest I must tell you neither was it full but an empty and frivolous Answere To dispute of Divinity or Religion where Scripture is not the onely Iudge is as to judge of gold by the colour without the touchstone And so he that could shew the best colour for his matter by a false light should carry it away And I may say truely without the Scripture be Iudge your disputation must needs end in a clamour where the voyce of God is of no authority But then also if Scripture should be the Iudge you might well say The more publicke the worse For it is such a light as would discover all your fallacies and so raysing a clamour of the publicke Audience when they should observe such collusion between the English Clergie and the English Romists it might breed such a detestation against all Reconciliation with Rome as would make the rent the wider and so all your labour should be in vaine And then you might use the Proverbe As good never a whit as never the better L. p. 148. That there are errorr in Doctrine and some of them such as most manifestly indanger salvation in the Church of Rome iâ— evident to them that will not shut their eyes P. To indanger Salvation is much and for you to say so much is much too and you saying so much we need not make much doubt of the truth of that you say in this Case And yet in saying so much you speake not all truth The truth is as we have proved and shall yet further That Romes Errors in Doctrine are damnable and cannot consist with salvation as is evident to those whose eyes are truly opened L. ibid. A. C. himselfe confesses that error in Doctrine of the Faith is a just cause of seperation so just as that no cause is just but that Now had I leasure to descend into particulars or will to make the rent in the Church wider 't is no hard matter to prove that the Church of Rome hath erred in the Doctrine of Faith and dangerously too And I doubt I shall afterwards descend to particulars A. C. his importunity forcing me to it P. By A. C. his canfession then the Protestants are able to justifie their seperation abundantly As for your Lordship you are so charitably and peaceably affected that you are loth upon any termes though it concerne the salvation of mens soules in such a case to speake the truth home to make the rent wider till by your Adversaries importunity I would say A. C. you be forced to it You have too tender a heart to be a Surgion when for feare least the opening of the wound make it wider you suffer it to fester inwardly It were well if you were halfe so tender hearted to the
England because her Great Metropolitan a little before beleeves it Or because Ipse dixit he said Christ thought it fitter to governe his Church by Divers Vice-roys then by One Is there such an Infallibility in your bare word as for the Church of England to establish her beliefe upon Certainly this is an Addition to the Articles of the Faith of the Church of England which in her former dayes she was not acquainted with Well for your Arch-bishops and Bishops we have said I hope enough and perhaps you will say too much and desire no more to be troubled with them Yet I see we must whether we will or no. For first here againe you doe most impiously ne dicam impudenter ye blasphemously bely the Lord Iesus Christ as before you have done more then once or twice and are not yet ashamed but rather hardned in your Habit as being reserved to be confounded Secondly as before you would make Christ to be the Author of such Governours and Vice-Roys as Arch bishops and Bishops so here Besides his Law-Books the Scripture he hath you say made you visible Magistrates and Iudges Surely That is besides the Scripture indeed yea not onely praeter but contra not onely besides but against the expresse Scripture as is but a little before proved that Arch-bishops and Bishops though they have gotten a degenerate Beeing as Mules in Rerum natura yet should have any Beeing at all in the Church of Christ much lesse that they should be Iudges at all in spirituall matters being themselves altogether carnall And For Arch-Bishops it hath not so much as a Name in Scripture as your Bishops have usurped that Title from Scripture and you confesse the Apostles were all equall in what night then grew up this Mushrum And we have before given a touch and tryall what kind of Iudges you would prove would men but pin their faith on your White sleeve But except you can bring some better Authority then your own blasphemous speech that Christ hath left such visible iudges to his Church your Church of England will have but a cold pull of it when she shal be put to give a reason of this her beliefe that Christ did so Or what Or why For truth and peace These words are with you as Mel in ore verba lactis honey in the mouth words of milke but we can discerne by them Fel in Corde fraus in factis Gall in the heart and fraud in actions But by what means will you procure us truth and peace By governing How or by what Law or Rule According to the Scripture say you Stay there and govern according to that for that is the onely way were your Prâ—laticall Government according to the Scripture both to procure and preserve truth and peace But unlesse you can prove which you never can by the Scripture and not by your own single-soled bold affirmation that Christ hath made you Governours of his Church you shall never perswade us to beleeve or hope that you will ever Govern according to the Scriptures But yet is this all Will you be such honest Governours as you will not go beyond Christs Law-books the Scriptures Nothing lesse For there follows immediately a dangerous Conjunction Copulative And. According to the Scriptures And. And what I hope you have no other Law-books to adde to Christs Law-books Have you Produce them And her own Canons and Constitutions Nay then Farewell Christs Law-Books Christ may put up his Pipes as it is said When your Canons and Constitutions come in Place And then farewell Truth and Peace your own Canons and Constitutions can make no Room for them For he that shall hold the truth never so right and firm and shall transgresse but one of your Canons what peace He shal be put to read the Canon that is he shal be shattered to pieces with your shooting off of your Canon And he that comes under the command of your Canon is ipso facto brought under the Babylonian and Antichristian yoak so as not onely his peace is destroyed but the truth power and verture of Christs death which hath freed his people from the bondage of all humane ordinance as hath been shewed in Gods worship and service is overthrown As also your selfe elswhere saith That Peace and Truth are rent by superstitious deâ—iâ—es from which I hope all your Canons and Constitutions are not altogether free How much lesse can that Church be free from most miserable slavery that puts her neck under the yoak and her shoulders under the intollerable burthen of your Canons and Constitutions Nay I will say more If you be the visible Magistrates and Iudges of the Church as the High Priests and Pharisees were although the High-Priests office was grounâ—ed upon Divine Ordinance and Authority and had Christ himselfe to stand at your Barre to be judged though you had not as the Jews said they had a Law to put him to death yet you would find Church-Canons and Constitutions enough or some new devise though not to condemn him to be Crucified yet to Censure him to be Pillorified and to have his Eares closse cropt and his blood shed in a great measure and stript naked and perpetually Imprisoned and exiled as being the Arch-enemy of your Hierarchy Tyranny Hypocrisie and all Impiety And all this you would do by vertue of your Canons and Constitutions which yet were never ratified by any Law of the Land or Act of Parliament But yet seeing you must have your Church-Canons and Constitutions besides Christs Law-Books to govern by yet the Church of England may think her selfe well appayd and in some tolerable though intollerable case if she have but her own Canons such as her selfe hath constituted and assented to For volenti non fit injuria If the Church of England be willing to be an Asse to her Prelates as once she was to the Pope she may And so she hath her amends in her own hands If the yoak of Canons pinch her she may thank her selfe for putting her neck under I but this is not all There be other Canons besides that are not hers that she must be governed by What more Bonds and Fetters yet for thee poore Church of England Yes As well her own Canons and Constitutions as Those also of the Catholicke Church What are those Alas your Church of England is an Ignoramus in all such Canons as you call Catholicke And your Church Catholike you know and tell us doth Comprehend that of Rome and Rome hath innumerable Canons Consâ—itutions and Decretalls so as under the Canons of the Catholicke Church you may bring upon the Church of England all the Canons and Decrees of Trent all the Popes Decretalls and the whole body of the Popes Canon Law so large a field is your Canons and Constitutions of the Catholicke Church But you qualifie the matter in adding Which crosse not the Scripture and the just Laws of the Realme That 's somthing
and needs the Churches mouth and if it be dead as being not living Certainly it can be no fit Iudge at all except ye will admit of a Judge that is both blind and dumb and dead As three Romans being sent in Ambassage one a Foole an other a Coward the third having the Gout Cato told the Senate they had sent an Ambassage that had neither Head Heart nor Feet And such a Judge would you make the Scripture But 't is visible you say So are your dumb dead and blind Images in your Churches they are visible and very conspicuous when the Scripture oftentimes can neither be seen nor heard Now to your Generall Councels L. p. 192. And surely what greater or surer Iudgement can we have where sense of Scripture is doubted then a Generall Councel I do not see And pag. 211. The making of Canons which must bind all particular Christians and Churches cannot be concluded and established but there to wit in a Generall Councel P. 224. I said The Determination of a Generall Councel erring was to stand in force and to have externall obedience yeelded to it till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the Contrary made the errour appeare and untill thereupon another Councel of equall Authority did reverse it And pag. 226. Now suppose a Generall Councel actually erring in some point of Divine Truth I hope it will not follow that this Errour must be so grosse as that forthwith it must be known to private men And doubtlesse till they know it obedience must be yeelded Nay when they know if the Errour be not manifestly against fundamentall verity in which case a Generall Councel cannot easily erre I would have A. C. and all wise men consider whether externall obedience be not even then to be yeelded And p 227 Therfore it may seem very fit and necessary for the peace of Christendome that a Generall Councel thus erring should stand in force till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration make the errour to appeare as that another Councel of equall Authority reverse it And ibid. No way must lye open to private men to refuse obedience till the Councel he heard and weighed And p. 261. A Councel hath power to order settle and define Differences arisen concerning Faith This power the Councel hath not by an immediate Institution from Christ but it was prudently taken up in the Church from the Apostles example Act 15. And ibid. If the Councel be lawfully Called and proceed orderly and conclude according to the Rule the Scripture then the Dâ—finitions therof are binding but not from calling another Councel to reverse or abrogate the former Asts upon just cause P. 346. 'T is true that a Generall Councel de pace facto after 't is ended and admitted by the whole Church is then Infallible for it cannot erre in that which it hath already clearly and truely determined without Errour After 't is confirmed 't is admitted by the whole Church then being found true it is also Infallible that is it deceâ—ves no man And p. 347. For a man upon the pride of his own Iudgement to refuse externall obedience to the Councel was never lawfull nor can error stand with any Government P. 357.358 Christ did just intend to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie either Contentious or Curious or presumptuous spirits And therfore in things not fundamentall nor necessary 't is no matter if Councels erre in one and another and a third the whole Church having power and meanes enough to see that no Councel erre in necessary things c. If it erre in things necessary we can be Infallibly assured by the Scripture the Creed the 4. first Councels and the whole Church where it erres in one and not in another And pag. 360 For one Faith necessary to Salvation a most infallible certainty we have already in the Scripture the Creeds and the 4. first Generall Councels to which for things necessary and fundamentall in the Faith we need no assistance from other Generall Councels P. 378. I submit my Iudgement with all humility to the Scripture interpreted by the Primitive Church and upon new and necessary doubts to the judgement of a lawfull and free Generalâ— Councel And I absolutely make a lawfull and free Generall Councel Iudge of Controversies by and according to the Scripture And p. 386. I have expresly declared that the Scripture interpreted by the Primitive Church and a lawfull and free Generall Councel determining according to these is judge of Controversies P. Thus in your Commending of Generall Councels you are very large that I may not say lavish too And surely in one respect especially you have great Reason for your Generall Councels must consist of Prelates onely so as in exalting Generall Councels you magnifie your Prelacie But I remember a saying of Basill that in his Observation he never knew any good to come of Generall Councels of Bishops who when they met in Councel were more zealous and eagre for their own particular Honours and Dignities then of the Church of God And as Bernard saith Totus fervet Ecclesiastiâ—us zelus sola pro Dignitate tuendâ— All the zeale of Church-men is infâ—amed altogether for the advancing and upholding of their Dignity But let us now take a briefe view of your words which we will collect and reduce to certain summary Heads First That Generall Councels are the supreme Iudge of the sense of Scripture when and where 't is doubted p. 192. Secondly that the Canons and Decrees of Generall Councels bind all Christians of necessity p. 211. Thirdly yea though Generall Councels determine Errors yet that requires at least externall obedience Fourthly That Generall Councels erring in some points of Divine Truth yet you hope it will not be so grosse as to come to the common view or if it doe yet obedience must be yeelded p. 226. onely except the Error be not manifestly against the fundamentall Verities Fifthly That a Generall Councel hath no power from Christ to be Iudge in Controversies but the Church prudently tooke it up from the Apostles example Act. 15. Sixtly That the Difinitions of Generall Councels bind being according to the Rule the Scripture yet that those may be reversed by an after-Councel Seventhy A Generall Councel in things clearely and truly determined cannot erre but in that is infallible Eightly That it is pride not to obey the Councels Difinitions yea unlawfull and not standing with any Government Ninthly That Christ intended to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church but not to satisfie contentions or curious or presumptuous spirits Tenthly That it is no matter if Generall Councels erre in one two three c. things not fundamentall nor necessary Eleventhly That for necessary Faith to Salvation we have an Infallible certainty in the Scriptures Creeds and 4. first Generall Councels to which for things necessary we need not the Assistance of any other Generall Councel Twelfthly That the Scripture interpreted by the
to the Testimony if they speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them Art thou not Christs Spouse Then heare Christs voyce the Scripture Say with the Spouse in the Canticles Tell me O thou whom my soule loveth where thou feedest where thou causest thy flocks to rest at noone For why should I be as one that turneth aside by the flocks of thy companions To whom Christ her beloved Spouse answereth If thou know not O thou fairest among women goe thy way to the footsteps of the Flocke and feed thy Kiddes besides the shepheards Tents Here the true Church Christs Spouse in her perplexities and doubts wherein she is like to loose her selfe goes to Christ to her shepheard and asks of him where he feedeth where he causeth his Flocks to rest at Noon where his Congregations may find a shady layre rest and refreshing from the meridian heat of Persecutions or her Faith find rest in doubtfull cases of Faith or Conscience For why saies she should I be as one that turneth aside by the flocks of thy companions Why should I be uncertain and unsettled in depending upon the guidanâ—â— and conduct of false shepheards such as pretend to be as thy fellow-shepheards that sit as God in the Temple of God shewing themselves to be God equall to thee in power and Regall Authority over thy Kingdome and Church making what Laws they please in binding our Consciences and that even to their erronious Decrees To whom Christ Answereth If thou know not O thou fairest among women although despised by men goe thy way forth by the footsteps of the Flocke to the green Pastures and the waters of comfort the Scriptures where my flocke doth ordinarily find pasture For man liveth not by bread onely but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God there thou shalt find the true Pasture by the footsteps of the flocke by the continuall treading of my sheep which know no other pasture but this For here my sheep heare my voyce even here by the shepheards Tents my Ministers whom I have set over the flocks to feed them with understanding and knowledge Here be those waters for every one that thirsteth here is the milke and wine that 's to be had without money Hearken diligently unto me incline thine Eare and come unto me and thy soule shall live search the Scriptures for in them is eternall life and they are they that testifie of me These are the onely light which I have left to be a lampe for thy feet and a light for thy steps These are the onely Oracles of God which shall clearly resolve thee in all thy perplexed doubts These are my onely faithfull witnesses which I have left to witnesse the truth and to establish thy heart in the faith in me if any man teach otherwise and consenteth not to the wholsome words of Scripture which are mine own lâ—vely voyce and which containe all things pertaining to faith and godlinesse he is puft up and knoweth nothing he is a false Prophet a false shepheard a blind Guide a seducer an Antichrist Thus Christ speaketh to his Spouse in the Scripture his owne voyce the onely true living and infallible Iudge And to this Judge Christs voyce in the Scripture the true Spouse of Christ in all Ages hath still resorted and therein been resolved in her doubts and comforted in her distresse For here is that wisdome which is justified of all her Children And whatsoever is therein written is written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope Nothing can comfort us in our calamities nothing can confirm and establish our faith and hope in all our perplexed doubtings but this Before we shewed how all the Fathers with one voyce took this sanctuary came to this Iudge made this the onely Rule to determine all doubts and disputes by so Augustine so Tertullian so the incertain Author upon Mat. 24. in Chrysostome saith that in the times of Antichrist even in these our Times one cannot know the true Church but by the Scripture because Antichrist with his wicked Clergy make such a faire shew and pretence that they are the Catholicke Church just as your Lordship doth Therfore let all true Christians in these perillous times of Antichrist and Antichristian Prelates which cry down the Scriptures as an insufficient Iudge in Controversies of faith and cry up their own usurped Authority as the supreme Iudge of the Scripture at least in all doubtfull cases though they confesse their Judgement not to be of Infallible Credit fly to the Mountaines and to the Fountaines the Scriptures the lively voyce of Christ they they onely will resolve us and settle our faith in all doubts and difficulties and will discover unto us the true Church of Christ from all false pretended counterfeit Antichristian Prelaticall Hierarchicall Churches and Synagogues Now seeing though you arrogate but are not able to prove that Christ hath left your Catholicke Church an Infallible certainty which yet you confesse to be uncertaine give us leave though we touched this before now againe upon a fresh occasion to vindicate the Truth of Christ that he not onely intended but indeed hath left unto his true Church an infallible certainty of his Spirit which by the rule of his word doth guide his Elect into all truth in all ages successively unto the end of the world When he took his long Farewell of his Apostles and Disciples as concerning his bodily presence with them upon earth he left them this Promise yet to comfort them concerning his perpetuall spirituall presence with them saying Lo I am with you alwayes unto the end of the world To the end of the world Ergo with all those that are his true Disciples unto the end of the world So as wheresoever Christs Churches and Congregations be there his Spirt is This Spirit leads his into all Truth into all necessary and saving Truth infallibly and most certainly This is that Anoynting of which before He that hath not this Spirit of Christ this Spirit of truth is none of his And he that hath it is preserved from the seducements of false Prophets which come in Christs Name and shall deceive many but not the Elect for that 's not possible Every true beleever cannot will not willingly erre in any point of faith and truth necessary to Salvation I say not wittingly For many of Gods deare Children doe that ignorantly whereby Christ is denyed as in yeelding obedience to mans devices in Gods worship and that through custome wheras if they were rowsed and put to it and asked if they beleeved not that Christ is the onely King of his Church and Lord over the Conscience oh they beleeve and acknowledge none other King Aske them againe whether they beleeve that any man may exercise this Authority over them oh
they renounce all such lords Aske them againe why they subject their Consciences soules and bodies to the will and lust of man in will-worship forbidden by the Apostle ô they answere they never knew that before and now that they know it they repent of it and from henceforth they renounce it and resolve to loose rather life and all then they will doe so any longer Thus even a good Christian through ignorance may for a time in a dangerous errour but so soon as he is convinced of it he will not for all the world continue in it So he that hath true saving faith in Christ resting on Christs merits alone for his justification he neither will nor can be brought to beleeve that he must be justified by his works For this is against the very nature of saving faith which rests onely on Christ renouncing all other respects So that 't is impossible that any true member of Christ should by any errour be so seduced as to be seperated from Christ for he is preserved by the spirit of Grace by the power of God through faith unto salvation So that as the whole body of the Church of Christ so every particular member of this body hath the certaine and infallible seale of the Spirit of Truth given him of Christ according to his promise purpose and intention for all truth absolutely necessary to salvation having both his Spirit and word to guide them into all truth Finally 't is very true being taken in a true sence that Christ never intended to leave an infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie either contentious or curious or presumptuous spirits And if not presumptuous spirits certainly not such spirits as usurpe a Prelaticall and Lordly Authority and to sit as visible Iudges of Scripture in Generall Councels imposing upon all men a servile yoake of obedience to their Decrees whether right or wrong true or false Nay to such presumptuous spirits God hath given eyes not to see and hath made their hearts fat not to understand the truth not to see the light that shineth in his word and therfore they say it is darke and speake disgracefully of it So as the presumptuous is properly yours As for the contentious and curious these are they that contend for the truth against your undermining and oppugning of it and are curious â—o search and sound the bottome of that Mystery of Iniquity which is cunningly yet grosly enough folded up in the voluminous leaves of this your Booke So as for these so contentious and curious Christ did intend to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie them and to assure them of the Truth so as not all the opposition and contradiction in the world can beate them from it To the Tenth you make no matter of it if Generall Câ—uncels erre in one or a second or a third so it be not in things necessary In other cases it makes no matter if they erre And what matter is it then if there be none of your Generall Councel at all For you confesse that they may possibly though not easily erre in things necessary and in fundamentall points of Faith and yet obedience must be given If then it be no matter if in other things they erre onâ—e twice thrice yea or if you will in a hundred things take all these together and the world should be free from many dangers if it were rid of Generall Councels altogether But in the meane time you make no matter of it if in so erring they load the world with an intollerable burthen of errours which all men must bow their necks under till another Generall Councel doe free them and perhaps in stead of freeing them may lay as much more load upon them Truly my Lord if you had not a liberty to talk with your pen what you please and a strong opinion also that whatsoever you write or speake must needs be of every body highly applauded as if all you write were Oracles you would never have suffered such foule blots to have dropped from your pen. But 't is no matter If you erre in this and that and another c. aswell as your Generall Councels so as we knowing them may not in obeying or assenting erre with you To the Eleventh you say for necessary faith to salvation we have the Scriptures Creeds 4 first Generall Councels So then being furnisht of necessaries what need we any more I think the Apostles rule for temporall things may hold well in spirituall he saith having food and rayment let us therewith be content So Having all things necessary for faith to salvation let us use these well and bâ— content not affecting to be loaden with a multitudo of humane devises which Prelaticall Councels Courts and Canons put upon us And are Generall Councels so Cheape as that you should keep such a doe having no Necessaries to trouble them withall But it seems you have some other necessaries besides those of faith that will require a Generall Councel For you tell us pag 211. The setling of the Divisions of Christendome as the reconciling of England with Rome the making of Canons which must bind aâ—l particular Christians and Churches cannot be concluded 〈…〉 but there to wit in a Generall Councel Why but there For the Church of England you may doe what you please onely you desire perhaps a Generall Councel to conclude for Altars and other utensils and so ease your shoulders of the envy and crime of Innovation but for that also you have a sufficient put off as is shewed before But the reconciliation and setling of the Divisions of Christendome will conclude all But still the Scripture with you is not alone sufficient for necessary faith to salvation without the Creed and at least the 4 first Generall Councels Why was the Scripture before there were any either Creeds or Councels And was not the Scripture then alone sufficient for all things necessary to salvation The Creeds and Councels are not to be added to the Scripture as if without them it were not an absolute and compleat Rule As for the Creeds they were for the summe and substance of them extracted from Scripture and must still be reduced to Scripture for their true sense and interpretation as before And for the Decrees of the 4 Generall Councels we approve of them no further then the Scripture warrants them And therfore though Twelfthly you humbly submit to the Scripture as it is interpreted by the Primitive Church and Generall Councels and not els yet we submit our faith onely to the Scripture as it is interpreted by it selfe and by the spirit of Christ speaking and breathing in it which by the Scripture interprets the Scripture unto us as Augustine doth well observe in his Second Book de Doctrina Christiana And herein you shew your faith not to be Divine but humane as which you submit not meerly to the Scripture but unto the Iudgment of men as
Protestants except not against it For this difference de Modo of the manner of the Presence of Christs naturall Body in the Sacrament we have spoken before at large And was this Difference trow you so small that cost both Ridley and Cranmer and Frith their lives For you cite them all 3 in one Page calling them the learned of those zealous in Queen Maries dayes Martyrs you do not call them beware of that So as times kà rin for honour sake you mention them not So you cite Calvin a little before whom in the High Commission you honoured with the Title of Rascall And these Martyrs are they whom one of your Divines of note and worth Dr. Heylin in a Booke licensed by your Chaplein stiles with the Honourable Title of Schismaticall Hereticks But to let this passe for currant with you The summe of your whole passage touching this point from pag. 292. to 296. is to perswade us to acknowledge a reall presence of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament onely differing from the Papists quoad moaum as touching the manner of presence Now I confesse this is a very pretty and ready way to lead to your Reconciliation But let me tell you even words and names and verball expressions are of no small force many times to lead men into great errours although at first they meant no harme that used them For instance The Primitive Fathers when they began to call the Lords Table an Altar they little dreamed what an Altar it would prove afterwards as wheron to offer up in sacrifice Christs naturall body So when they called Ministers Priests they imagined not that those Priests would prove afterwards such sacrificing Priests as now are in the Church of Rome And when they called the Lords supper a sacrifice which they meant to be Eucharisticall of thanksgiving they never suspected that this would become afterwards a corporall sacrifice of Christs very body and bâ—ood And yet these very Names so taken up gave occasion afterwards of setting up the greatest Idol that ever was in the world as we see at this day So dangerous is it to expresse Divine matters by any other Name then what the Scripture hath given them Seeing then that in Scripture we find no such words as Reall Presence of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament it is not safe for Christians to take them up And so much the more because we see by experience the mischiefes that this reall presence so called and so understood as the Papists doe hath done in the Church of God How many Martyrs hath it made How much innocent blood hath it spilt So as it hath gotten and that deservedly a very bad Name And it is the Name or Word wherby the Romanists expresse their Great Idol in the Masse And David saith Their Drinke offerings of Blood will I not offer nor take up their Names into my lips So as Christians ought not to use the Names of Idols invented by man to expresse Divine things of Scripture by Yea K. Hezechiah when the Brazen Serpent which God himselfe had commanded to be made for the present occasion in the Wildernesse though he commanded it not to be kept for a Monument began to be abused unto Idolatry he brake it to pieces And so in this case though these words The Reall Presence may beare a good sense yet being and that of long time abused to the setting up and upholding of most grosse Idolatry we are to stamp it to powder and never use it more And we have as little reason to be perswaded hereto by your Lordship as by any For as this word Reall presence is very suspicious in it selfe and much more in regard of the Papists abusing of it so it wants not suspicion that you so commend it unto us First in regard of the whole matter of your Book which generally complyes with Popery Secondly in regard of the main scope of your Booke which is to bring on a Reconciliation with Rome And Thirdly and more especially in regard of some speeches which have now and then dropped from you in publick Court where speaking of Altars-placing you said you would have none to sit above God-Allmighty which must needs imply as before is noted that either your Altar is your God Allmighty or els God Allmighty hath a locall presence and residence there upon your Altar And so Fourthly your eager zeale in promoting of Altars makes us much to suspect your Reall Presence as fearing all will not be well when once we have taken up and let down this Reall presence of God Allmighty into our bellies And so also Fiftly your Priests by that Name doe increase the suspition And Sixtly because you tell us before of a Transubstantiation taken properly and improperly And Seventhly Because you tell us by and by that Transubstantiation Purgatory Forbearance of the Cup are but Disputed and Improbable Opinions Lastly it is used to Idolatry and so to be broken in pieces as the Brazen Serpent was And therfore for all these Reasons we desire not to be troubled with your Reall presence but leave it to the Papists or to you to restore it where you had it or if you like it so well to use it let it be to your selfe or Chappell at Lambeth trouble not the Church of England with it any more which desireth not more matter for a new Booke of Martyrs Now to come to the Martyrs First for Ioh. Friths words Not to make it an Article of Faith but leave it Indifferent First However the words sound we must weigh them by the sense And the best Commentary of his words is his death which he suffered even therfore because he made it an Article of his faith to beleeve that Christ was not Really Present in the Sacrament as the Papists do hold and therfore on the contrary he held it as an Article of his faith That Christ was onely vertually and spiritually present to the Faith of the Receiver according to the true meaning of those Sacramentall words This is my body as a little before we shewed Secondly to take Friths words in your sense doth overthrow a Christians faith as touching the Sacrament wherein the beleever receives and applyes by faith the merits of Christs death to the comforting nourishing and strengthning of his soule And a man is bound to beleeve aright concerning the Sacrament and to put a maine difference between truth and erroâ—â— therein And is it not an Article of Faith to beleeve Christs body not to be corporally present in the Sacrament seeing he saith Me have you not alwayes It is expedient for you that I goe away who sits at Gods right hand whom the heavens must receive till his coming againe And lastly admit his words may be stretched to the full bredth of your sense which is erronious wee must measure all mens words by the Rule of Scripture in divin matters If they dissent or come short or goe
the same honour that you give to the Saints which they represent as divine honour to the Crosse and Crucifix as they teach as we have shewed Is not here a full and home contradiction to the Scripture For Contradiction is not onely in an expresse Negative but in an impiâ—â—â— Negation when such and such a Doctrine doth necessarily imply a contradiction to the Scripture And in this kind all the Doctrines of Popery whereof we have given sundry Instances before are direct contradictions to the truth of the Scriptures L. p. 340. It doth not follow since the Councel of Trent hath added a new Creed that this Roman faith is now the Catholick For it hath added extravea things without the foundation disputable if not false Conclusions to the Faith So that now a man may beleeve the whole and intire Catholicke faith even as St. Athanasiâ—â— requires and yet justy refuse for Drâ—sse a great part of that which is now the Roman faith P. Is it so then Hath the Councel of Trent added a new Creed and so Roman faith is not now the Catholicke but to be refused as drosse extraveous false without the foundation How then doth this agree with that faith which even now you confessed that the Church of Rome had and hath the saving Faith that One Faith of the Apostles as whereby a Papist living and dying in that Faith may be saved And if Rome hath added a new Creed how holds she still that one Faith And do not you beleeve Romes new Creed For what is this Creed That the Roman faith is now the Catholicke How is this then a new Creed That Romes faith is now the Catholicke For say you it hath added extravious things without the foundation Disputable if not false conclusions to the Faith Is this all Parâ—urient Mâ—ntes I expected here some monstrous evidence against the Church of Rome when you began to tell us she had brought forth a new Creed But this your Rumor will not be taken for a Creed without some sounder proofe then we see you yet bring for all your faire florish For what 's this new Creed Alas a poore Cento patcht up of certaine extravious things What without the Foundation Good enough yet so long as nâ— Canon against the Foundation or a mine of Powder to blow up the foundation Onely without the foundation Alas that 's not worth the talking of If the new Creed be of things onely without the foundation you may leave them out of your Creed as things not necessary to be beleeved or at least not to be beleeved of all Christians alike as you teach us before and Bellarmine too that All things de fide are not necessary to be beleeved of all men or are not necessary to salvation And perhaps Bellarmine means Romes new Creed you speak of which though the Councel of Trent hath made it to be de fide yet it is not necessary for every man to beleeve it or not absolutely necessary for every mans salvation But what more 2. Disputable As you sayd before Disputed Quâ—stions Disputed and Disputable still Ergo what can you make oâ— such a Creed at the worst but some disputable matter not yet sufficiently discussed though determined in the Councel of Trent and sit perhaps to be reserved to be determined upon some clearer demonstrations in your next Generall Councel whose Decrees then true or false shall be received as your Creed And as we said before things Disputable may yet prove to be truth being throughly scanned and thus Romes neâ—â— Creed may prove as Credible as you call it disputable But any more yet yes if not false conclusions If Which receiving a faire interpretation from your mouth may be all one as if you had said Nâ—t false Conclusions because as yet Disputable And while things are but disputable and in dispute they are as yet no false Conclusions For the Premisses of the Argument must goe before the Conclusion But yet your Conclusion is somwhat 〈◊〉 For you say A man may beleeve the whole and intire Catholick faith and yet justly refuse for drosse a great part of that which is now the Roman faith What Drosse And Iusâ—ly refuâ—e as Drosse What are you that man that may doe thus And will you doe thus Nay you for your part have bound your hands from taking any thing as drosse which Rome hath put in her new Creed For those things even the worst of them you say are disputable Therfore not yet concluded and determined for Drosse And if you shall now take those things for drosse which with you are but disputable how can you justly doe it For if mettall be in dispute among the râ—siners it is not presently doomed for drosse being yet in their best judgements but disputable the Test must first try it whether it be drosse or not And so it is the Test or the Testaments of Christ that must try all false mettals shine they never so gold like and discover and condemne them for Drosse And surely my Lord your single judgement through never so singular will never be taken by any as solid enough to preponderate the Decrees of a whole Councel as Trent to conclude those Decrees to be Drosse both after you have called them but disputable and after Rome hath Decreed them for her new Creed But you goe no further yet then Posse a man may take them c. And you may in time come actually to take those disputables for no Drosse but good Currant Coine not onely passing for Currant in Rome but also in England as holding the same Creed and being one Church So as a little more Allay then Ordininary shall not disable the currantnesse of it And what is there in all Romes new Creed of Trent which you say is of things Disputable which is any worse drosse but rather as good silver as those her Altars and oâ—her superstitions which you have borrowed of her Which were they but soundly disputed would prove drosse indeed as formerly also is proved Againe here you confine the whole and intire Catholicke faith to Athanasius his Creed You might have at least taken in the other two Creeds to boot and yet not all of them together will make up the adequate Rule of the whole and intire Catholicke faith For the Catholicke faiths full latitude whole and intire cannot be measured but by the line and Rule of Scriâ—ture alone The onely túpos didâ—kus as the Apostle caâ—ls 〈◊〉 the Matrix or Mold wherein faith must be cast 〈◊〉 to receive its perfect forme which is not cannâ—â— be whole and intire but as it is according to the whole and 〈◊〉 Scripture conformed And you adde L. p. 3â—2 No man can properly be said to beleeve the whole Creed that beleeves not the whole sense as well as the letter of it and as intirely P. Now you told us before that Rome hath lost the sense of the Creed at least in some things