Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	rule_n	tradition_n	unwritten_a	2,845	5	12.5918	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20949	The Iesuites shifts, and euasions; or, his deportment in controuersies of religion. Or, A treatise, wherein the causes are examined why Mr. Arnoux the Iesuite, refuseth to answere to seauenteene questions propounded by the ministers of the church of Paris Wherein also the treatise of fiue euasions which he hath added to the examination of our confession, is likewise examined and answered: by Peter Du Moulin.; Fuites et évasions du Sieur Arnoux. English	Du Moulin, Pierre, 1568-1658.	1624 (1624)	STC 7328; ESTC S111074	27,667	44

and yet not ascribe the title of Reformators vnto themselues And although we should call our selues reformers is it not Mr. Arnoux dutie to shew vs that there is nothing to be reformed in the Church of Rome by prouing his beleefe by the Word of God thereby to withdraw vs from this vnprofitable labour and to hinder vs from applying any more plasters where there is no wound Then that likewise should not hinder him from answering vnto vs. 4 That which followeth is no better vntill saith he that they haue confuted my Paper of confrontation against the which they haue written it were a kind of folly in mee to grant them such a disloyall and friuolous digression For answere hereunto I say that we haue in such manner confuted his confrontations that they are become ridiculous His accusations did not merit the paines were tooke therein but we had a respect to the dignitie of the persons in whose presence he pronounced them And when any man moueth vs to render a reason of our beleefe it is no digression to cause him to yeeld a reason of his owne beleefe For a man alwayes to aske questions and neuer to make answere to any thing that another askes him besides the vniust vsurpation it is a confession of his owne Ignorance For he that askes desireth to be instructed and hee that will not answere silently confesseth that he is not able to giue instruction And if when we make these questions vnto him we should vse a digression yet seeing that our people are not seperated from the Church of Rome and because we cannot satisfie their demaunds by the Word of God it is Mr. Arnoux part to supply their want therein and to giue them instruction Seeing that if his cause be good he shall haue lesse paines to produce a place out of the Scripture touching euery one of our 17. demaunds then to seeke for so many shifts He takes more paines to shew the reasons why he answereth not then he should haue had to answere vs. 5 The fift reason is excellent When saith he they shall plainly and freely confesse that they can no more brag and boast of the Word of God and that their confession is wholly abolished and that it is no more to be spoken of Then I will make no difficultie to instruct them in my beleefe and it shall not be to the end to make them account thereof but to winne them to God He will haue me to leaue my owne Religion before he instructs me in his beleefe but in the meane time what Religion shall I hold while I attend his instruction This is excellent counsell to wish me to leaue my Religion without taking another in a certaine time after and that I should renounce my confession of the faith before I know whether he that induceth me to doe it hath a good religion And if after I haue left my Religion without taking another I come to Mr. Arnoux to learne his faith of him and that therein hee doth not content me shall I remaine without Religion or shall I take that againe which I left That is as much as if a man should leaue his owne Religion not knowing wherefore For I cannot know that my Religion is false vnlesse I know that the contrary Religion is true This Doctor hath learned all this from Father Gontri that published diuers small Treaties wherein are found these slender shifts and childish conceipts to learne men to exempt themselues from answering alwayes to aske questions and to bind vs to proue our allegations in as many words and syllables out of the holy Scripture 6 Lastly after so many ouerthwartings Truth giueth Mr. Arnoux a blow and draweth this confession from him Such questions saith hee cannot be made by those that know well that we neuer promised as they haue done neither yet protested in any of our Articles that we ought not to beleeue any thing but that which is formerly set downe in the Scripture and in expresse termes to the contrary wee hold traditions which they reproue and reiect He should haue said so at the first without seeking so many ouerthwartings and delayes Then he confesseth that he cannot answer our questions by the Scripture and that those points whereof we desire a proofe are not proued by the Word of God contained in the writings of the Prophets and Apostles but by tradition and by the vnwritten Word That is to say that these doctrines are neither in the Law of God nor in the Gospell for in the holy Scriptures the Law of God is whole and the Gospell whole and not halfe vnlesse the title be false And yet these 17. points are the principall points of the Romish Religion and which are held to be necessary for saluation which are the causes of our separation Then be it knowne to all the Realme of France that Mr. Arnoux being at this day seated in so eminent a place after hee hath defied vs with so solemne a defiance in the presence of his Maiestie and of the greatest persons of this Realme hath bled at the nose confesseth his own weaknesse and acknowledgeth that his Religion is not grounded vpon the Word of God contained in the holy Scriptures but vpon an vnwritten Word and vpon Traditions which haue no other rule nor certainty then the authority of those that propound them and who by that tradition haue heaped vp infinite riches and builded an Empire vpon earth While the holy Scriptures which is able to make vs wise to saluation is hidden and withdrawne from the peoples sight And that we on the contrary haue from point to point satisfied and answered to all his questions and obiections Blessed bee the Name of God that makes truth to triumph and drawes our aduersaries condemnation out of their owne mouthes Then with good reason he addeth these words saying they did well to conceiue that I would neuer vndertake an impertinent thing and that also which hee saith that wee would haue him lose dayes and nights and spoile his brest and his stomacke with so much writing and abandon his charge and then stay a long time for an answere and striking after one manner he should lose his blowes It is not impertinent to defend his cause by the word of God that paines will neither hurt nor spoile his brest nor stomacke For it is so hard a matter to produce a place out of the Scriptures for euery one of these 17. points and if not formall at the least such as haue some appearance thereof Touching the places of the Scripture alleadged by Pope Boniface the 8. and by the last Counsell of Lateran in so prodigious and prophane a sense Mr. Arnoux Arnoux p. 112. dares not maintaine such cotations of the Scripture nor yet reiect them least hee should condemne the Popes and their Counsels but findes a way betweene both saying That those proofes are not produced in the literall sense but in an accommodated and

Papists Churches 9 Or that the ancient Church gaue diuers charges and offices to Saints to one ouer one Country to another ouer another Countrey to another ouer an occupation c. 10 Or that the ancient Church beleeued that the Pope can giue and take away Kingdomes and dispence with subiects touching their oath of fidelity cannonize Saints and dispence with vowes and oathes made to God 11 Or that in the ancient Church the Pope by his pardons distributed the supererogatory satisfactions of Saints for remission of the punishments for other mens sinnes 12 Or that the Pope then set vp pardons in one Church not in another making priuiledged Alters to the which sometimes hee granted two or three hundred thousand yeeres of pardon 13 Or that the ancient Church did beleeue that there is a place called Limbus for yong children 14 Or that it adored the hoste which the Priest holdeth in his hands with Latrian worship and that to the same end the Priest lifteth vp the hoste in the Masse 15 Or that the ancient Church euer esteemed the books of Machabees to be Canonicall bookes 16 Or that it beleeued that the Bishop of Rome cannot erre in the faith 17 Or that the ancient Church did beleeue that Iesus Christ by his death and passion did satisfie for the faults and for the sinnes by men committed before baptisme but that for sinnes committed after baptisme it belongeth to vs to satisfie for them either in this life or in the fire of Purgatory Vpon euery one of these points I will content my selfe with two places alleadged by them out of the foure first ages CHAP. III. The fiue manners or wayes of Euasions set downe by Mr. Arnoux to confute the Ministers THe carefull and zealous reading of the holy Scriptures and the ancient doctors the vnderstanding of the Latin Greeke and Hebrew tongues and the knowledge of histories and of Philosophie are things required to be in a Diuine But the onely intelligence of the Scriptures ought to suffice if all of vs were wise and of one accord But the sickenesse of this age and the starting-holes which error hath digged are the causes that diuers other things are required in a Diuine Father Gontri deceased acknowledging that and feeling himselfe to be destitute of many necessary aides therin as of the knowledge of the Greek Hebrew tongues yet desirous to win reputation inuented certaine means and wayes whereby an ignorant person voide of all learning might maintaine a disputation and to that end published diuers smal Pamphlets which serue to forme and frame the manner and order which those that dispute or conferre with vs should hold to whom he giueth these two counsels The first is neuer to yeeld to make any answere nor to binde themselues to defend the Romish Religion but alwayes to put questions and to force vs to the defence of our confession And if they be pressed to proue their beleefe by the Word of God instead of answering vs that they should say It belongs not to you to examine me of my beleefe for I am in possession and you haue no commission to examine me Seeing you are reformers it belongs to you to reforme mee and to produce your proofes And who told you that this is the holy Scripture The other counsell which hee giueth is that when wee come to make obiections and to produce our proofes not to allow of any thing whatsoeuer we shall say if wee shew it not in the Scripture in as many words and syllables as wee alledge it and that if we frame an argument whereof both the propositions are in the Scriptures to deny that they are bound to allow the conclusion because Aristotles rules doe not binde the faith And that if in our discourse we shall happen to vse these words That is to say or by consequence they should force vs to finde those words That is to say and by consequence in the Scripture And that if we produce a place in the Scripture for the clearing and interpretation of another place in the Scripture they should say vnto vs shew mee a third place in the Scripture which saith that this place ought to be expounded by that place And that if we doe not answere them to their desires then that they shall breake off conference and thereupon make and raise clamors and slanderous libels full of triumphant words that they haue brought the Ministers to their Shifts of that is to say and by consequences and to say that a Caroach also is a consequence because it followeth the horses There is no Cobler in the Countrey but that in a quarter of an houre he may become a Diuine if it be sufficient alwayes to put questions and neuer to answere Certainely all this is but a small masse or lumpe of scould-like wrangling which onely learneth a man to defend himselfe with his clawes like a Cat and to prolong a disputation neuer entring into the matter But this dresser of craftinesse and deceit neuer reaped any benefit by his proceedings for at the first encounter with the least of the Ministers his nose fell a bleeding and all his craft vanished away like a tempest driuen backe with the winde of a Hatte and so withdrawing himselfe like a light horseman vnhorst went into another towne there to be dealt withall in the like manner If we would giue the like measure to those that vse these iugling trickes we could at the first word that they speake aske them who they are and who sent them and vpon their answere that they are Priests and Doctors of the Church say vnto them what know wee whether there must bee a Church or not or that there is a Church and thereupon if they speake any thing say vnto them shew that in as many words in the written or vnwritten word And if they chance to come out with Therefore or for that cause say vnto them shew me that word in the vnwritten word and who shall be Iudge c. And so like them vse that simple wrangling which is fit onely for mad-men and malitious wranglers that feare the touch and dare not shew their faces in open field Mr. Arnoux followeth this instruction fit for a man that is meanely furnished and decking himselfe with other birds feathers hath drawne these subtilties into a kinde of Art and reduced them into fiue heads intitling his discourse Meanes or wayes of euasion Wherevnder pretence to discouer our shifts as they say hee sheweth his owne and frames a discipline of small and slender subtilties fitter rather to stay and hinder disputation then to instruct To each of these Euasions we will say somewhat that we may not let any thing passe without replying CHAP. IIII. The first way of Euasion THe first of our wiles which he noteth is that when we are put from a place of Scripture we produce our own interpretations and saue our credits by That is to say Whereunto I reply That if

rules not thinking thereon being insensibly thrust into them by the force of reason Whosoeuer will haue no consequences produced abolisheth all common sense and all vse of reason which onely consisteth therein The rules of Lodgique are no Articles of faith but instruments to mannage all knowledge by order and certainty and by consequence also matters of Diuinitie CHAP. VI. The third Euasion THe third Euasion which Master Arnoux saith we vse is that we serue our turnes with the circle in this that we proue those things to be Scripture by our particular spirit and proue that particular spirit by the Scripture Which is false and slanderous We leaue that particular spirit to mad men none of vs makes our selues Iudges of the Scriptures That is the Popes and his Prelates property who being assembled boast that they pronounce Iudgement touching points of faith and beleeue they cannot erre And our Aduersaries say that euery particular person of the Church of Rome doth certainly discerne the true Church which spirit or particular iudgement is meere blindnesse seeing that the poore people haue no other proofe to know that the Church of Rome is the true Church then onely the witnesse that the same Church giueth of itselfe Touching the circle if any serue their turnes therewith it is our aduersaries for they ground the authoritie of the Scripture vpon the testimony of the Church and yet ground the authoritie of the Church vpon testimonies of the Scripture as one that hauing placed the walles of a house vpon the foundation afterward should place the foundation vpon the walles When we aske them how they know that wee must beleeue the bookes of the new Testament They answere and say because the Church saith it and ordaines it to be so and when we say that how know you that wee must beleeue the Church because say they that the bookes of the New Testament say so and ordaine it to be so for there it is written Tell it vnto the Church c. Certainely as often as they alledge the Scriptures to ground and authorize their Church they ouerthrow that which they will haue men to beleeue which is that the authority of the Scripture is grounded vpon the authority of the Church And thereby are tyed to rowle the circle as Diogenes is to his tub and ouerturne their owne wits by this circulation But when we aske one of them and say how know you that your Church teacheth the true Doctrine or how know you that it is conformable to the ancient Church There they are at a stay and the circle rowles no more and so they are dumbe by necessity For how shall they know the true Doctrine seeing the rule of the true Doctrine which is the holy Scripture is hidden from them And how should they know whether their Church is conformable to the ancient Church seeing it is not knowne but by an infinite number of Greeke and Latine Bookes which the people vnderstand not Then the people must know that the Church of Rome teacheth the true Doctrine onely because those that teach it say so which is to belieue at hazard and to haue a humane Religion grounded vpon coniectures without the Word of God and to allow a man to be a witnesse and a Iudge in his owne cause Therefore Master Arnoux giueth markes to know the true Church without speaking of the holy Scriptures Pag. 119. which are all false First The consent of the people But there are a greater number of the people that disagree with the Church of Rome than those that agree therewith And Iesus Christ saith that broad is the way that leadeth to destruction Math. 7.13.14 and many there be which goe in thereat because straite is the gate and narrow is the way which leadeth vnto life and few there be that finde it Then he addeth the testimony of Martyrs a false marke for there shall neuer be any Martyrs found that died for calling vpon Saints or for Transubstantiation or for Purgatory They suffered death for the doctrine of the Gospell for the which our poore Churches haue suffered so many martyrdomes by meanes of the Church of Rome which suffereth no more but maketh martyrs suffer For a third marke he placeth the authority of the Fathers But the Fathers are contrary to the Doctrine of the Romish Church the people cannot looke into them And Master Arnoux speaketh by heare-say for in his Booke he alledgeth but foure or fiue places out of the Fathers which are not found to be false and corrupted For a fourth marke hee puts the eminence of the Doctrine I thinke that by the eminence hee vnderstandeth the excellency which consisteth in purity and conformity to the Word of God Without proofe to say that the Church of Rome hath the purity of Doctrine it is without proofe to pre-suppose that which is in question To the contrary we haue proued against Master Arnoux that Poperie is a heape of errours and a corruption of Christianitie And how should the people know that purity of Doctrine seeing they hide the rule of purity which is the holy Scriptures from them For the last marke hee se●teth succession neuer interrupted It he vnderstandeth a succession of doctrine wee deny it if he vnderstandeth a succession of chaires without Doctrine that succession is nothing Many other Churches also which condemne the Church of Rome haue their succession and that ancienter than the Romane And schismes haue often broken the succession of the Romish Bishopricke And how can the people know any thing touching this succession which cannot be learned but by reading of infinite Histories and Greeke and Latine Authors that haue written for the space of one thousand sixe hundred yeares CHAP. VII The fourth Euasion THe aduersary noteth another Euasion wherewith wee serue our turnes as he saith which is to produce diuers places of Scripture one with another whereof the one serueth to interpret the other For example he saith that wee expound these words This is my body by this place I am the Vine wherein hee slandereth vs. We know well that these words I am the Vine are not the exposition of these words This is my body Wee note not those places I am the Vine I am the dore This cup is the Couenant The rocke was Christ to interpret these words This is my body but to shew that whosoeuer will alwaies take the words of the holy Scripture literally and leaue these interpretations whereby the Scripture expresseth it selfe should often fall into great absurdities and to shew that ordinarily the Scripture nameth the signes and Sacraments by the names of that which they represent CHAP. VIII The fift Euasion THe fift Euasion which Master Arnoux imputeth vnto vs is a Chaos of confused calumniations He saith that we attribute things to the Church of Rome which shee beleeueth not That we charge the Popes with injuries That wee reiect the originall Text of the Scripture that is the Hebrew and the Greeke

ninth Articles are true wee reiect the Limbus patrum which is said to bee emptie these 1600. yeeres and the Apocriphall bookes 10 It is false that we say that we must confesse our sinnes onely to God We must confesse them to the Church and to our Pastors and to our neighbours whom wee haue offended 11 To take the word iustifie in that sense which our Aduersaries take it for regeneration and sanctification It is false that we say that faith onely iustifieth For a Christian is regenerated by all Christian vertues But if by being iustified they vnderstand absolued and esteemed to be righteous before the iudiciall seate of God which is the sense wherein the Scripture ordinarily taketh the word iustifie in that sense we say that faith voide of workes cannot iustifie vs but that faith accompanied with workes onely hath the vertue to iustifie vs for that among Christian vertues faith onely hath that propertie To apprehend the benefit of our Lord Iesus Christ 12 It is false that we simply say without exception that when the fault is remitted the punishment also is remitted We speake that of satisfactory and vindicatiue punishments but not of chastning punishments which serue to amend and instrust the sinner in time to come Those punishments are sufferable with the remission of sinnes 13 It is false that we say that God hath created men to be damned Caluin saith not so and if hee had said so wee are not bound to beleeue it 14 It is false that we say that euery one of vs hath not an Angell to be his guardian Our Churches haue not defined any thing touching that point Whether God imployeth an Angell for the guarding of diuers persons or many Angels for the guarding of one man It is a thing which wee leaue to the Counsell of God 15 The fifteenth Article is true we honour Saints and set them before vs for an example and aspire to their beatitude but we call not vpon them 16 It is false and slanderous that we say that God thrusteth vs forward and constraineth vs to sinne that doctrine is horrible and diuelish Caluin to whom they impute this doctrine neuer said it but taught the contrary and although he had said it yet our confession of the faith in the seauenth Article protesteth the contrary in these words saying Not that God is the Author of euill or that the fault can be imputed vnto him seeing that his will is the soueraigne and the infallible rule of all doctrine and equitie 17 It is false that we say that the Scripture is easie to bee vnderstood and that the vnderstanding thereof is giuen vnto all men In it there are obscure prophesies and difficult places We say that in the Scriptures there are sufficient euident and cleare places which are instructions vnto vs for saluation and that in things which are plaine and manifest in the Scriptures and which haue no neede of interpretation all that which is necessary for our saluation is contayned 18 It is false that we say that to preach the Word of God there needes no ordinary nor extraordinary calling I haue made a booke expresly to proue the contrary 19 It is false that we say that we must beleeue nothing but that which is written We say that we must not receiue any doctrine as necessary to saluation that is not contained in the holy Scriptures 20 It is false that we say that God hath not giuen power to the Church to remit sinnes faithfull Pastors haue that power but their pardon is conditionall so the party be a repentant sinner which is not certanely knowne but to God onely Therefore their iudgement must of force be conditionall As the holy Scripture saith that Pastors saue soules because God vseth their ministry to saue them so it saith that Pastors pardon sinnes because God vseth their meanes to pardon them 21 It is false that our Churches haue made any definition touching this point that all sinnes are mortall It belongeth not to criminals and sinners to determine what punishment euery sinne they commit deserueth Onely we reiect that distinction which is made betweene mortall and veniall sinnes that is pardonable because those sinnes which are called mortall are pardonable in those that conuert and amend their liues and those sinnes that are called veniall are mortall when men perseuere therein till they die and that contempt and finall obstinacy is added to the transgression 22 The 22. Article is true We doe not presume that wee can merit before God and if thereupon we should be asked whether we cannot merit by the grace of God I answere that the same grace is it which hindereth vs from meriting For for that cause our good workes are not meritorious because they proceed from the grace of God It is no merit to receiue grace 23 It is false that we say that it is impossible to keepe the commandements of God though God doth helpe vs. When it is the will of God to make a man perfect and without sinne no man can hinder it nor limit any rules to the efficacie of his Spirit 24 It is most false that we say that God doth not reward good workes 25 It is false that we hold for a most assured thing that the Saints haue equall glory in heauen That is no Article necessary to saluation we condemne no man for that opinion but suffer euery man to conceiue thereof as hee thinketh it most probable But the Pope which giueth a degree of glory vnto some men aboue the vulgar Saints is bound to maintaine that inequalitie 26 It is false that we say that we must not vse the imposition of hands which the Apostles vsed in Samaria and in Ephesus Whosoeuer hath the vertue by imposition of hands to conferre the same miraculous graces and the gift of tongues which the Apostles conferred shall doe well to vse that ceremony 27 It is false that we say That the precept to annoynt the sicke with oyle whereof S. Iames speaketh ought not to be practised in the Church Wee know that not onely the Apostles but also their disciples after them did profitably vse the same for healing of the sicke Whosoeuer can by that vnction doe the like miraculous effects shall doe well to vse the same ceremony 28 Lastly it is false that our Churches beleeue and teach that prayer for the dead was not anciently in vse Wee say that the first ages whose examples should serue vs for a Law vsed it not and that God did not ordaine it Touching the Machabees it concernes vs nothing to know whether that as then they prayed for the dead For although the bookes of the Machabees are full of fables and that the same history is to be suspected yet although it were true our Religion is not ruled by the Iewes actions but by the commandement of God as also that prayer for the dead whereof wee speake is made with a reference to the resurrection and not to draw soules out of Purgatory The indifferent Reader will consider with what people wee haue to doe seeing that of the 28. Articles wherein they comprehend our Religion there are but foure which truely and without calumniation doe represent our doctrine and what hope is there to end our Controuersies by the Word of God seeing that they binde vs by the Word of God to proue those things which we beleeue not How should they faithfully propound our beleefe to their people when they disguise it vnto vs Put the case that our Religion were as full of errors as it is holy iust and true why doe they insteed of seeking to draw vs out of errours goe about to drowne vs therein why doe they study to make vs worse insteed of amending or bettering vs or doe they thinke that wee haue forgotten our Religion and that wee must be forc't to come to them to learne it Wee are vsed in the like manner by the Bishop of Luzon in his booke that he hath made against our Epistle dedicated to the King In the tenth page hee reduceth our Religion into twelue Articles which he hath forged out of some places of our Authors which he hath clipt and which doe not say that which he would haue them to say which we take for a iustification of our cause seeing that no man dares encounter with vs face to face nor come directly to vs but all of them take a wrong course and goe by-as way and discharge not their choller against our Religion but against another which they haue forged at their pleasures FINIS