man but as holie men of God spake it inspired by the holy Ghost yet most contrary to this expresse rule euery priuate mā shall haue libertie to interprete it to his owne peruers will after a priuate interpretation otherwise then at first it was inspired to the holy men If euer man maie appeale from the Ecclesiasticall sence of the vniuersall Churche to the Text it self as he vnderstandeth it 4 The fourth Reason is becausé by appealyng onely to the Scripture you séeme to giue men libertie to denie all vnwritten verities which wee haue receiued of the Churche either by expresse definition in generall Counsaile or but by tradition And I beleeue at my firste na 〈…〉 of unwritten verities Maister Crowley and his 〈…〉 straight waie as though all suche were 〈…〉 to temper their follie I will not saie their pride a 〈…〉 that point I aske them all this question How thei proue the Trinitie of persones in the Vnitie of the substaunce in Godheade by the expresse Scriptures Or the two distinct natures in Christe and but one person Or God the Father to be Ingenitus Or the proceedyng of the holy Ghoste both from the Father and from the Sonne as from one Fountaine or the descendyng of Christ into Hell by plaine wordes of Scripture beyng therefore of many now a daies flatly deuyed Or the custome of Baptising of Infants seeyng the Scripture soundeth rather as though thei should bee taught first their faith before their were Baptized saiyng Goe and teathe all Nations Baptizyng them c. Or why we should kéepe the Sondaie now at all and not the Saterdaie rather whiche was the Iewes Sabothe daie that the Scripture speaketh of to be sanctified Although your Puritanes which goe to plough vpon all the Churches Holydaies seeme not yet to know the Sondaie for any of their makyng or why we should not abstaine now still like Iewes from strangled meates as the Apostels once decreed in the Acts and by no expresse Scripture againe abrogated Yea then why maie not any Hereticke denie al our thrée Créedes both the Apostles Créede the Nicen Creede as it is called the Creede of Athanasius seing neuer a one of these is written in Scripture expresly but all lefte vs by tradition onely vpon credite of the Churche Marke you not how these Bedlem Scripture men would shake all the foundations of our Christian faith by binding vs to beleue nothing but Scripture Do not these blinde guides thinke you leade us a trim daunce towarde infidelitie Thus muche of the fourth Reason 5 The fift is because that without a certaine Iudge for interpretatiō of Scripture absolutely this absurditie would followe y t God which is the Author of al perfectiō and disposeth euery thing in swete decent order had left his vniuersall Church in yearth in this confusion y t when soeuer any doubtfull question should arise vpō construction of his holy will there were no prouision at all ordained by God for deciding of such strifes and preseruation of concord among his people and then certainly the kingdome of Gods Churche were not so well prouided for in their gouernment as euery ciuill kindome is by pollicie of carnall men amōgst whom none almost are so barbarous but that thei haue Counsellers for gouernment of their state Iudges for expounding executing of their lawes aswell as lawes written or els it were ridiculus would not he be counted a very wise man thinke you in one of our Parliamentes whiche should steppe vp like a graue Burgesse and perswade all his fellowes that for asmuche as thei had a noble and an auncient Lawe written vnto them the Realme should haue no longer neede henceforthe of any Prince nor any Rulers nor Peeres nor Iudges nor Iustices nor ciuill Magistrates but euery man vppon his worde for the warrant would bee content to gouerne hym self orderly by the lawe written whiche as his wisedome thinkes is plaine enough And truely no wiser be thei but muche more to bee laughed to scorne whiche will haue the Scripture to bee the onely Iudge for euery man to appeale vnto and refuse all authoritie of the Churche in expoundyng thereof for who knoweth not that the Arrian Heretickes brought fortie places of Scripture for their horrible Heresie more then the Catholikes had against theim but all falsely vnderstoode whiche when it is so misunderstoode and misapplied then S. Augustine calleth it the Heretickes howe wherewith they shoote out their owne venemous arrowes And Vincent Lir. saieth it is then the Sheepes cloathyng whiche the Wolfe doeth shroude hym self in because that when a simple bodie feeleth the softnesse as it were of his fliece he should not mistrust the Tyrannie of his teethe That is to saie of his false construction of Scripture wherwith he would deuour his saule So did the Deuill hymself alleadge Scripture vnto Christ and as oft as any Heretikes aleadge Scripture to vs against the Catholike faith So oft saieth Vincentius we maie be out of doubt the Deuill doeth speake vnto vs by their mouthes and saieth vnto vs euen as he saied vnto Christ Si filius deies mitte te deorsum as much to saie If thou wile bee the sonne of God and professor of his holy Gospell cast thy self doune from the high authoritie and tradition of this Catholike Churche whom if wee aske againe why we should so doe then saieth Vincentius he commeth out with Scriptum est enim because it is written saieth he in the holie booke from thence thou must learne a newe lesson of me how to be a right Christian man To whom we must saie then Vade Satan non tentabis c. Auaunt Sathan c. and that with greate feruencie of faith for more perillous is the temption of such a flatteryng Serpent saieth S. Augustine then the roaryng of an angrie Lyon because the one wee flee from with feare but the other with entising maie come the nerer to sting vs. 6 The sixt reason most waightie of all is this because if you will refuse the authoritie of the Churches absolute iudgement vppon the Scriptures true cense you shall seeme plainly to denie the holy Ghoste to be the Spirite of truthe whiche vppon the Apostles and all the faithfull was sent doune with visible signes and with his Church is promised to remaine vnto the worldes ende by these wordes of our Sauiour I will aske my Father and he shall send you an other comforter to tarie with you for euer the spirite of truth And a little after thus The holy Ghoste the comforter whom my Father will sende in my name shall teache you all truthe Loe the Church is the surest Iudge and none shure but the Churche for all men in doubtes of Scripture because it hath a promise that it shall neuer erre in iudgement whiche is notably confirmed by the Prophet Esay saiyng This is my couenaunt with them saieth our Lorde my spirite whiche is in thee and my worde which I
It was the pleasure of God to set in the scriptures a sure Bulwarke against deceytfull errours against which Scriptures no man that is any way wylling to séeme to be a Christian dare be bolde to speake As golde by the toutch stone so are the spirites tryed by the Scripture And euerie one that is skilfull in the scriptures that is that can by conferring of one scripture with an other finde out the meaning of the holy ghost in the scriptures may be as bolde to vse the scripture in the tryall of spirites as the Goldsmith may be to vse the toutch stone in the tryall of mettalles And if ye thinke that the conference of one Scripture with an other be not the surest way to attaine to the true meaning of the Scriptures looke Saint Austine De Doctrina Christiana Lib. 3. Cap. 26. And thus much for aunswer to your second Reason which I haue called False The third Reason THe thirde Reason that mooueth you to thinke that the Scriptures are to be iudged by the Church is for that S. Peter hath written That no Scripture is to be taken after any priuate interpretation c. This Reason I haue called Foolishe for that foolishly you doo rushe into the Epistle of Saint Peter and report his wordes otherwise then he wrote them and then you your selfe doo make a priuate interpretation of them contrarie to the decrée made in the Councell of Trent whereof you would séeme to make greatest accoumpt The words of Saint Peter as they doo stande in that translation that the Coūcell of Trent hath allowed are these Hoc primùm intelligentes quód omnis prophaetia scripturae propria interpretatione non fit Vnderstanding this thing first that no prophesie of the scripture is made by priuate interpretation I meruayle howe you being such a Catholique as you professe to be durst set downe Peters wordes otherwise then you finde them in that translation For I am sure you are not ignoraunt of the penaltie that the Councell hath appointed for such doinges But this is not all your misdemeanour in this behalfe For you make a priuate Interpretation contrarie bothe to the decrée and also to this thyrde Reason of yours For to make a priuate interpretation is to make such a one as differeth from the auncient wryters and is not allowed of the Church But where can you shewe me any auncient writer that hath interpreted those wordes of Peter as you doo Saint Austine medleth not with them No more dooth S. Ierome S. Ambrose S. Gregorie nor Chrysostome nor any other of that tyme that I haue séene or can heare of Nicholaus Lyranus writing vpon these wordes of S. Peter sayth that the meaning of S. Peter was to teach that no propheticall Scripture hath begynning in or dooth spring out of humane sense or mannes meaning For thus he wryteth Propria interpretatione non fit id est non fit sensu humano ideo subditur Non enim voluntate humana allata est aliquando prophetia sed spiritu sancto inspirati c. It is not made sayth he by any mans owne interpretatiō that is to say it is not made by humane sense and therefore this saying is set immediatly after Prophecie hath not at any tyme been brought in by mans wyll but men inspired with the holy Ghost c. I thinke your Fathers of the Councell of Trent will allowe Lyranus for a Catholique wryter wherefore I thinke also that they wyll not dispense with you for dissenting from him in the interpreting of S. Peters wordes But nowe if ye wyll giue me leaue I wyll tell you what I thinke to be the meaning of S. Peter in these words First I thinke that you doo know that S. Peter wrote in Greeke And then you must knowe that the wordes which in the allowed translation are Priuata interpretatione are in the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And they that haue any skyll in the Greeke tongue will tell you that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dooth signifie Impulsus as well as Interpretatio And may we not translate the wordes of S. Peter thus Omnis prophetica scriptura non fit proprij impulsus Euerie propheticall Scripture is not made of or by priuate or proper impulsion Or to translate it more English lyke No propheticall Scripture is made of or by priuate or proper impulsion It séemeth to me that bothe the wordes that goe before and also the wordes that followe doo enforce this to be the meaning of Saint Peter For he sayth thus We haue a firme and sure propheticall spéeche and you doo well in that you doo giue good héede thereto as vnto a Candle that appeareth in a darke place vntyl the day may waxe cleare and the day starre may aryse in your heartes But yet so that you doo first knowe that no propheticall Scripture is made by priuate or proper impulsion For prophesie hath not at any tyme bene brought vnto vs by the wyll of men but the holy men of God haue spoken as by the spirite of God they haue bene driuen or vehementlie mooued to speake Let your fréendes consider of this and tell you whether this may be allowed for Catholique or not I do◠not write this as one that doo not thinke that saying of yours No Scripture is to be taken after any priuate interpretation to be true or as one that dooth allowe the rashnesse of such as wyll rushe into the Scriptures without such reuerance as is séemely and take vppon them to make interpretations after their owne fantasies I know that all that we can doo and all the helpes that we can haue are lyttle enough and therefore I thinke it méete for all men to follow the rules that S. Austine prescribeth writing De Doctrina Christiana And thus much may suffise to be sayde to your thirde Reason which by good Reason and for iust cause as I thinke I haue called Foolishe The fowrth Reason YOur fowrth Reason is for that by appealing to the Scripture we seeme as you say to giue men lybertie to denie all vnwritten verities which we haue receyued of the Church eyther by expresse definition in generall Councell or but by tradition c. And first you delyght your selfe with a frumpe at Crowley and his fellowes that wil laugh as you say so soone as they heare of vnwritten verities And it séemeth that you perswade your selfe that you haue done it verie finely And therfore I haue named this Reason of yours Fātasticall But yet a little to temper our follie you will not say our pride you will aske vs how we prooue the Trinity of persons and the vnitie of substaunce in the Godhead by expresse Scriptures c. Nine verities we must prooue by Scriptures which are not as you say written in the Canonicall Scriptures Well to staie your wisdome I wyll by Gods mercifull assistance doo what may be done in this matter And I hope to prooue as many of them as be
An Aunswer to sixe Reasons that Thomas Pownde Gentleman and Prisoner in the Marshalsey at the commaundement of her Maiesties Commissioners for causes Ecclesiasticall required to be aunswered Because these Reasons doo moue him to think that controuersies and doubts in Religion may not be Iudged by the Scriptures but that the Scriptures must be Iudged by the Catholique Church 1. The first is for that the Scriptures are mute and dum 2. The second for that they be full of harde and deepe mysteries 3. The thirde for that S. Peter sayth No Scripture is to be taken after any priuate interpretation 4. The fourth for that to appeale to the Scriptures dooth seeme to denie all vnwritten verities 5. The fyft is for that it were a great absurditie not to haue a certaine Iudge of absolute Authoritie in the interpreting of Scriptures c. 6. The sixt is for that in refusing the Authoritie of the Churches absolute Iudgement herein we seeme to denie the holie ghost to be the spirite of trueth Written by Robert Crovvley ¶ Imprinted at London by John Charlewood 1581. ¶ To all the Pope his Catholiques in England or else where IN September last I with others was by sufficient Authoritie appointed to cōfer with such of your sort as at that tyme were in her Maiesties prisons of the Marshalsey the white Lion in Sowthwark restrained of lybertie for refusing to conforme themselues to that order of Religiō which is now publique in this Realme of England And according to our duety in that behalfe Maister Henrie Tryp and I did as we were required make our spedy repaire first to the one prison and then to the other And after some conference had with certain that were close prisoners we came to confer with one Maister Thomas Povvnde Gentleman in the lodging where he then laye And finding him altogeather vnwylling to enter into any conference by speaches because as he sayd he feared to fall into daunger of Lawe therby I aunswered that he ought to haue a better opinion of her Maiestie by whose appointment we were come to offer cōference then to thinke that she would send vs to entrap him or any other her subiects For she needeth not to seeke more aduantage against any of them then that which already by their disloyall behauiour they haue giuē her So that if she would proceede against them in rigour of lawe and not in mercie she might cut their heads from their shoulders and make no more to doo with them But being desirous by some meanes to bring to passe that they might become as obedient subiects to her as she both hath and dooth shew her selfe a louing Prince to them she would not abridge them of lybertie which for good and iust yea necessary causes shee is now enforced to doo but that shee would withal prouide that by cōferēce with such as be learned they might either be drawn from their errours or els be found to be obstinate and wilfully blinde But none of these speaches could mooue maister Pownd to like of any conference by speaches Yet notwithstanding he sayd he was ready to confer by wryting and offered so to doo Whereunto I aunswered that we had no commission to deale that way but yet if he would write I promised to aunswer him in writing Vpon this he pulled a Pāphlet out of his bosome the copie wherof I haue caused to be set before mine aunswer called in such as he thought meete to heare it read And after he had read it he deliuered it to me to be aunswered And this was done the. 7. day of September The ninth of the same month I began to shape him an aunswer and finished the same with as much conuenient speed as I could being letted with busines besides that busines enough to occupy som mā thorowly But by Gods helpe the time was not long before the aunswer was finished But in this meane whyle I know not by what occasion Maister Povvnd was remoued to another prisō further of so that I could not come to delyuer mine aunswer to him neyther did I thinke it meete to be sent to him immediatly from me because I vnderstoode that the right Reuerend Father the Lorde Bishop of London had commaunded him to be remooued thence I did therefore reade in the hearing of as many of your sorte as I then found in the Marshalsey bothe the Reasons contayned in Maister Povvnd his Pamphlet and also mine aunswers to the same Promising that with as much speede as I might I would send bothe to my sayd Lord the Bishop with my Letters beseeching him at his discretion eyther to send mine aunswer to Maister Pownd or els to cause him to be brought back againe to the Marshalsey whether I might repaire to proceede in conference with him by writing But my sayde Lorde being oppressed with other affaires more waightie and thereby enforced to commit this busines to some other that were not so carefull for the dispatch thereof as I would they had And I my selfe also not altogether vnoccupied otherwise did not as in dutie I ought call vpon my sayd Lord but supposing that mine aunswer had beene shortly conuayed to Maister Povvnd because I heard not of his returne to the Marshalsey I rested looking to haue receyued some replie from him tyll at the last euen in the Moneth of December last I heard that the Copies of his Pamphlet were made common to many of your sorte with great brags that the reasons therein contayned are vnaunswerable Yea and some of our side were required to aunswer them euen as Maister Povvnd had required me Whereupon repayring to my sayd Lorde the Bishop I receaued my sayde aunswer againe the 4. of this Ianuarie with his allowance to publish it in Printe together with the Copies of Maister Povvnd his Pamphlet and the breefe aunswer that Maister Trippe wrote after I had finished mine as by the same may appeare And this was thought needefull to be don because the Copie of Maister Povvnd his Pamphlet is already made so common our annswers being as yet made knowne but to fewe And that you may haue that firste in sight that you like best I haue caused the Printer to place the Copy of Maister Povvnd his Pamphlet immediatly after this short Epistle Reade these Reasons for your pleasure and our aunswers for your profite And if you mislike with our aunswers replie if you can You shall finde them of our side that will deale with you faithfully and freendely too Be not obstinately and wilfully blinde least you doo thereby prouoke yea and enforce our mercifull Prince contrary to her naturall inclination to deale with you in Iustice without mercie Though we haue great cause to thinke that you all the sorte of you doo hate both our Prince and vs for that Religion which bothe she and we do professe yet I dare assure you that bothe she and all the Honorable learned of her Realme yea and all of all estates
expectantes satagite immaculati inuiolati ei inueniri in pace domini nostri longanimitatem salutem arbitremini sicut charissimus frater noster Paulus secundum datam sibi sapientiam scripsit vobis sicut in omnibus epistolis loquens in eis de hijs in quibus sunt quaedam difficilia intellectu quae indocti instabiles deprauant sicut caeteras scripturas ad suam ipsorum perditionem And I thinke that you your selfe would translate them into Englishe thus Wherefore dearely beloued waityng for these thinges giue your endeuour to be founde vnto hym in peace beeyng without spot and vndefiled and thinke that the long sufferyng of our Lorde is saluation euen as our moste deare brother Paule according to the wisedom that is giuen vnto him hath written to you euen as in euery Epistle speakyng in them of those thinges amongst whiche are some thinges that are harde to be vnderstanded whiche vnlearned and vnstable menne doe depraue euen as thei doe other Scriptures to their owne destruction I trust you doe see now that we neede not that reason whiche you doe call childishe and is not indeepe so childishe but that it hath in all ages been and is still allowed amongst the learned for the beste rule in vnderstandyng of places of the Scripture wherein is any difficultie But now you doe begge or rather take leaue to pose vs one question furder to the quicke And thus you saie How is it possible to knowe by any conference of the Scriptures which is Canonicall Scripture and which is not c. You seeme to bee perswaded that this question toucheth to the quicke in deede For you affirme plainly that if any Infidell Hereticke or Arbeist shall denie any parte of the olde or newe Testament or the whole olde and new Testament as in tymes past some haue doen. c. We haue no Ankor holde against such but onely the Reuelation of God to the Churche by Tradition which Churche is the piller and sure staie of truth c. I confesse that the Church is the Piller and sure staie of truthe as Sainct Paule writeth But that this truth is reuealed to the Churche by Tradition as you write that I denie For God hath taught and doth still teach the truthe to his Churche by the worde of truth and not by Reuelation or Tradition And that worde of truthe is sufficient and needeth not that any thyng should bee added to it either by Reuelation or by Tradition Yea there is an horrible cursse pronounced against all such as shall adde any thyng to in The true Catholique Churche is in deede the Piller and sure staie whereon that truthe that is taught by the worde of truthe doeth staie For that worde of truthe is the voyce of her Sheepeheard and she delighteth in hearyng that voyce but the voyce of a straunger she can not abyde to heare The truthe taught by the voyce of her Sheepehearde she laieth vp in her harte and all her delight is to lette men see it in her life and conuersation that séeing her good lyfe they may be occasioned therby to glorifie her spouse Christe and his and her heauenly Father This is that authoritie that S. Austine sayth moued him to beléeue the Gospell And this authoritie caused him to write thus against that Epistle of Manichaeus which the Maniches called theyr foundation Ego veró Euangelio non crederem nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commoueret authoritas Surely I would not beléeue the Gospell except the authoritie of the Church dyd mooue me thereto Not many lines before those words S. Austine sayth thus to the Maniches Apud vos vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat c. That is Amongst you where no part of that thing is which might allure and holde me there soūdeth only a promising of the trueth which vndoubtedly if it be shewed foorth so manifestly that it may not be doubted of it is to be preferred before all those thinges that doo holde me in the Church I pray you Maister Pownde ponder well these wordes of Austine and be not afrayde with Austine to yéelde to the manifest trueth when it shall be manifested to you onely because it lacketh the consent of Peoples and Nations the authoritie of Myracles the nourishment of hope the increase of looue the establishment of Antiquitie the holde from Peters seate the succession of Priests and the name of Catholique For S. Augustine sayth That the manifest trueth must be preferred before all these But if you wyll marke it well you shall finde that the trueth which we holde and teach and would wishe you and all your sort to embrace dooth not lacke the chéefest of those thinges that mooued S. Austine first to embrace it For it is the same that first gotte credite by those Myracles that were wrought by Christe and his Apostles It was and is styll nourished by hope It was and is styll increased by looue it is also confirmed by that seate which you call Peters and hath the succession of Priests although not in such sort as you allowe of And last of all it hath the right name of Catholique Thus I hope you doo now sée that you haue not rightly applied eyther the words of Paule or of Austine mynding thereby to prooue that the Church of Roome being such a Church as nowe it sheweth it selfe to be is the Piller of trueth and that Catholique Church whereunto all Christians should and must of necessitie cleaue if they wyll be saued by Christe Your conclusion wherein you aduise all men to beware of fléeing from the Church to the iudgement of the Scriptures onely c. Was not so aduisedly made as were séemely to be made by one that were so well séen in the writings of y e Fathers as you would séeme to be For as I thinke yea I am perswaded that I may safely affirme there is not one of the auncient Fathers of your minde in that poynt Saint Austine in his Epistle fortie and eight written to Vincentius sayth thus Noli ergò frater contra diuina tam multa tam clara tam indubitata testimonia c. Doo not therefore Brother shewe thy selfe wylling to gather out of the wrytinges of Bishoppes reproches against so heauenly so many so cleare and so vndoubted testimonies whether the same Bishops be on our side as Hillarius or of the vnitie it selfe before the faction of Donatus was separated from it as Cyprian and Agripinus First for that that kinde of writing must be distinguished from the authoritie of the Canon for they are not so read that testimonie should be taken out of them that it might not be lawfull for any man to be of a minde contrarie thereto if perhappes they shall in any place be of other minde then the trueth requireth For we are of that number that may not disdayne to take euen vnto our selfe this saying of the Apostle And if ye be of an
necessary to be knowne to saluation euen by plaine scriptures And the rest I hope I shall be able to prooue in such sort as the Fathers haue prooued them against such as haue at any tyme denied them And first I must prooue that in the Godhead there be thrée distinct persons and but one substaunce This and the second that is that in Christe there be two distinct Natures and but one person I thinke I shall easily prooue The Prophet Dauid hath written thus Psal 110. The Lord hath sayde to my Lord syt thou at my right hande tyll I make thine enimies thy foote stoole The Lord shall send out of Sion the Scepter of thy power beare thou rule in the myddes amongst his enimies Thus much in the two first verses And in the fift verse he sayth thus The Lord at thy right hand hath wounded euen Kinges in the day of his wrath That the Prophet Dauid dyd in these verses of this Psalme speake of the diuine Maiestie and of the second person Christ it is manifested by that which S. Mathew writeth in his twenty and two Chapt. Vos quid dicitis de Christo cuius filius est What doo you say of Christe whose sonne is he c. The Lord. That is God the Father Sayde to my Lord. That is to God the Sonne c. Héere haue we two distincted persons the Father and the Sonne And in the seconde verse he sayth The Lorde shall send out of Sion the Scepter of thy power which is the worde of the Gospell And this Scepter was sent out of Sion by the holy Ghoste in the feast of Pentecoste when he rested vppon the Apostles in the shape of 〈…〉 rie tongues deuided So that héere we haue the thyrde person and so consequently thrée distinct persons The Father sayth to the sonne sit thou at my right hand c. And the holy Ghost sendeth the word which is the scepter of the power of the Sonne out of Sion And in the fift verse he sayth The Lorde at thy right hand shall wounde euen Kinges in the day of his wrath Thus speaketh the diuine Maiestie God the Father God the Sonne God the holy Ghoste one diuine Maiestie to the Church of Christe hée re milytaunt vppon earth So haue we the vnitie of the thrée distinct persons in the deitie And Christe him selfe expounding the first verse of this Psalme to be spoken of him selfe dooth a warrant vs that he béeing Dauids sonne after the flesh is neuerthelesse Dauids Lorde and therefore God And so bothe God and man and yet but one Christe For be sayth What say you of Christe Whose sonne is hée This might suffise to shewe that these two verities are not vnwritten as you do terme them But to satisfie you to the full looke what S. Mathew hath written in the last Chapter last words of his Gospell reporting the wordes of our Sauiour who sayth thus there All power bothe in heauen and earth is giuen vnto me Goe your way therfore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost teaching them to obserue all those thinges that I haue commaunded you And behold I am with you euerie day euen to the ende of the world Héere the man Christe receyueth from the diuine Maiestie all power bothe in heauen and in earth and by that power he giueth commission to his Apostles to goe and teache all Nations and to Baptize them in the name of the Father of the Sonne of the holy Ghost So that héere againe we haue thrée distinct personnes and their vnitie in giuing to Christe all power in heauen and in earth and the two natures in one person Christe in that he receyueth all power in heauen and in earth and giueth commission to his Apostles to teach and baptize If this will not satisfie you I refer you to that which S. Austine hath written in his booke De Trinit There shall you finde proofe vpon proofe that these verities are not vnwritten The thirde veritie that you say is vnwritten is that God the Father was neuer begotten It séemeth that you haue not read S. Peaules Epistle to the Ephesians for if you had you must néedes haue séene that this is no vnwritten veritie Saint Paule writeth thus Huius rei gratia flecto genua mea ad patrem Domini nostri Iesu Christi ex quo omnis paternitas in coelo in terra nominatur For this cause sayth S. Paule doo I bowe my knées to the Father of our Lorde Iesus Christe of whome all Fatherhoode bothe in heauen and in earth dooth take name I trow you will not now say that this veritie is vnwritten The fowrth veritie that you say is not written is that the holy Ghost procéedeth bothe from the Father and the Sonne as from one fountayne If you would reade that which S. Iohn hath written I thinke you would not say that this veritie is vnwritten Cum venerit paracletus quem ego mittam vobis a patre spiritū veritatis qui a patre procedit ille testimonium perhibebit de me c. When the Comforter shall come whome I wyll sende vnto you from the Father euen the spirit of trueth that procéedeth from the Father he shall testifie of me c. And in the twentie Chapter he sayth Haec cum dixisset insufflauit dixit eis Accipite spiritum sanctum When he had spoken these wordes he breathed vpon them and he sayde vnto them Receyue ye the holy Ghost c. If breath may be sayde to procéede from the person that breatheth then may we say that it is written that the holy Ghost procéedeth from Christe the sonne of God euen as it is written that he procéedeth from God the Father I wyll be bolde therefore without any more a doo to conclude that these fowre verities are not vnwritten but written in déede in the Canonicall Scriptures The fift vnwritten verity is the descending of Christ into hell this you must haue prooued by plaine wordes of Scripture the lacke whereof as you say hath caused many nowe a dayes to deny it flatly I am none of them that doo so deny it But that he descended in such manner as your Catholiques haue taught and as it hath bene set foorth in their Stage Playes and in their payntinges in glasse windowes else where I thinke would be as harde a thing for you to prooue any way as for vs to prooue by plaine wordes of Scripture that he dyd in déede descende into hell I thinke you wyll graunt that the spéeche vsed in the Créede concerning Christes descending into hell is figuratiue vsed by the figure Synecdoche wherein the whole is vnderstanded in the parte For you wyll not I thinke say that Christes body went into hell For that was buried and rested in the graue tyll the tyme that it was restored to lyfe againe Well Then it was his spirite
that descended into hellâ— and not his body and spirite bothe This being grauÌ„ted as I think you wyll not deny to doo we shall easily prooue euen by plaine wordes of the Scripture that Christe descended into hell Saint Peter in the thirde Chapter of his first Epistle sayth thus Quia et Christus semel pro peccatis mortuus est iustus pro iniustis vt nos offeret Deo mortificatus quidem carne viuificatus autem spiritu In quo his qui in carcere erant spiritibus veniens praedicauit c. For euen Christe sayth Saint Peter dyd once dye for sinnes the iuste for the vniuste that he might offer vs vnto God mortified in the fleshe indéede but quickened in the spirite in which spirite comming to those spirites that were in prison he dyd preach vnto them Nowe I thinke you wyll say that I haue prooued by plaine words of Scripture that Christe descended into hell But howe great a matter were it If this might not be prooued by any playne Scripture séeing the Nicene Créede vsed in your Masse maketh no mencion of it And Damasus that was Bishop of Rome 360. yéeres alter Christes ascencion when Iulianus the Apostata was Emperour hath in his Créede no worde of it And yet he concludeth his Creede with these wordes Haec lege haec crede haec retine huic fidei animam tuam subiuga vitam consequeris premium a Christo That is Reade these wordes beléeue them holde them faste yoake thy soule to this Faith and thou shalt obtayne of Christe bothe life and reward I note this because I sée that you shoote at this marke To binde vs eyther to prooue all your vnwritten verities by Scripture or else for lacke of such proofe to beleeue as true whatsoeuer your Catholique Church shall allowe for trueth although the same be neuer so vnnecessarie to be prooued or receyued for trueth Your sixt vnwritten veritie is the custome of Baptizinge Infauntes For this I néede not to wryte much Our Sauiour Christe hath sayde Suffer little Chyldren to come to me and forbidde them not For to such dooth the kingdome of God belong And Saint Paule sayth That the Children of beléeuing Parents are holy Therefore they are not to be holden from Baptisme more then the Iewes children from Circumcision Your other thrée whyes are scarce worthy the aunswering Why should we kéepe the Sunday now at all and not the Saturday Why should we not abstaine now styll like Iewes from strangled meates as the Apostles decreed And why may not any Heretike deny all the thrée Créedes c. The first of these whyes shall be aunswered with an other why As why may not the Church of Christians being Lordes of the Sabaoth chuse for their Sabaoth one daye in seuen euen that daye the obseruing whereof they shall sée to serue best for theyr owne edification And why did the Apostles as it maye be gathered by that which Saint Iohn hath written in his Reuelation chuse the first daye of the wéeke to be theyr Sabaoth and not the laste And why doo you not remember that Saint Paule dooth number the Sabaoth amongst such indifferent things as are Meates and Drinckes Festiuall dayes and new Moones which were but shadowes of thinges to come c. And to your second why I say that the Apostles saw that it was necessarie for the tyme to forbydde those Christians that then lately had bene Heathen men to séede vpoÌ„ strangled or blood And néeded not to abrogate it afterwarde when they were further instructed and knew how to vse the ChristiaÌ„ lybertie without offence A man might meruayle why any wise man would mooue such a why as this Your thirde last why may be fully aunswered with these wordes Because there is no thing in those thrée Créedes that may not easily be prooued by the Scriptures And thus are all your whyes aunswered But doo you not marke howe these bedlem Catholiques would shake the foundation of our Christian fayth by bynding vs to beléeue that Christes Catholique Church hath set foorth as infallibly true and to be beléeued vnder paine of dampnation three Créedes the Articles whereof they are not able to prooue by the Scriptures doo not these blinde guides thinke you leade vs a trym daunce towardes shameles error and ignorauuce And thus much to your fowrth Reason which for good cause I haue called Fantasticall Bothe for that it séemeth that you perswade your â—elwfe that you handle your selfe verie finely in all that you write therein and also for that you haue vttered nothing therein that may not well séeme to spring out of a fantasticall head The fift Reason YOur fift Reason I haue called Fradulent because you doo therein compare the lawes and Scriptures of God to the lawes of men made for ciuill pollicie and gouernment And the Iudges gouernors in ciuill pollicie to the Ecclesiastical ministers gouernours of the Church of Christ in matters of faith This is fraudulently to bring y â— holy Scriptures which of right are the toutchstone for all mennes iudgements to be tryed by to be vnder the iudgement of some one man as your Pope who challengeth authoritie aboue the generall Councels or of that number of men that shalbe gathered together in a generall CouÌ„cell which doo challenge authoritie aboue the Pope But God that is Author of all perfection and dooth dispose euery thing in a swéet and decent order hath prouided much better for his Catholique Church héere millitaunt on earth then that it should be driuen to séeke for resolution of doubts at the bandes of such Iudges as may erre as your Pope and generall Councels haue and may doo The Father of lyghts the giuer of all good gyftes in whome there is no chaunge or shewe of variablenesse The Spirite of trueth that can neyther deceyue nor be deceyued is ready at hand with euery one that in humilitie of minde craueth wisedome and wyll not suffer any such loÌ„g to be in doubt of any thing the knowledge whereof is necessarie to saluation If you sayth our sauiour which be naught doo know how to giue good gifts to your children How much more shall your heauenly Father giue the holy spirit to them that aske it of him Gods chyldren may be bolde in such cases as I haue spoken of to craue Gods spirite and assure themselues to receyue it at his handes But the proude and hauty minded shalbe as sure to finde God theyr enimie This Iudge is alwayes ready in the scriptures to open the vnderstaÌ„dings of as many as doo resort thether with humilitie of minde séeking there to be resolued of theyr necessarie doubts That both your Popes generall CouÌ„cels haue erred therfore may erre I wil by Gods help plainly proue First if it were possible to perswade you that to make a decrée directly contrarie to the expresse commaundement of God is an error then it should be an
easie matter to cause you to confesse that bothe a Pope and a generall Councell haue erred For the sixt generall Councell holden at Constantinople where .289 Bishops were gathered together it was amongst other thinges decréede that holy Images should be had in Churches and that the same should be with great reuerence worshipped And this Councell was holden when the first Agatho was Pope and this decrée was allowed by him And afterward by Adrian the first Pope of that name So that one generall Councell and two Popes haue erred in one decrée made against and directly contrary to Gods commaundement Thou shall not make to thy sâ—lâ—e any grauen Image c. Iohn ths 12. of that name behaued him selfe so well in his nine yéeres gouernment that one Historian calleth him Sceleratum virum A man giuen ouer to all wickednesse And an other calleth him Monstrum hominis A Monster amongst men And at the last he was slaine being taken in adulterie But peraduenture you wyll say these faults procéede of humane infirmitie But what wyll you then say to Syluester the seconde that gaue him selfe to the Diuell that he might obtaine y e Popedome which he obtayned in déede and dyd enioy it fowre yéeres Benedictus the ninthe lyued so wickedly governing the Church fiftéene yéeres that one Historian sayth he was Vir plane probrosus infamis that is A man altogether worthy of reproches or euyll reportes and infamous And an other sayth that after his death hée was séene in an horrible shape and that be sayde thus Iusto Dei iudicio damnatus sum quia fine Lege vixi I am dampned euen by the iuste iudgement of GOD because I lyued without lawe If all this wyll not suffise you consider I pray you the Councell of Basill holden in the yere .1431 And Pope Eugenius that in those dayes ruled the Church .16 yéeres This Engenius dyd once allowe the decrées of that CouÌ„cell And afterward he did disallow the same Whereby it is manifest that he erred either in the first or in the last And if the Popes authorite be aboue the Councell then that Councell dyd erre in deposing that Pope And if the Councell be aboue the Pope then did that Pope erre in excomunicating that Councell If you wyll take paines in reading the Histories you shall finde amongst the Popes the Saduces errour the Arrians errour the Pellagians errour mainteyned Yea you shall finde and we doo sée manifestly that at this day your whole Church dooth mainteyne the heresie of the Anthropomorphits For you haue in all your Churches the Image of God the Father resembling an olde man with gray haires as though tyme had now made him olde as it dooth all creatures But when your Church had thrée Popes at one time Iohn the .23 Gregorie the .12 and Benedict the .13 To which of these would you haue sent vs for resolution of our doubtes Yea and when your Church was two yéeres together without eyther Pope or generall CouÌ„cell whether would you haue wished vs to leaue the Iudgement in matters of Church coÌ„trouersies at that tyme I hope you wyll no longer wishe vs to leaue the Scripture that neuer did nor shall fayle vs and depend vpon such Iudges as these that haue so often failed and as yet were neuer full agréed As for your comparison that you make betwixt the Churches and worldly kingdomes it is not woorth a Walnut And your similitude of a wyse Burgesse in Parliament we weigh not We knowe and confesse that mens lawes are not neither can be made so plaine or perfect but that it is necessary that there be Iudges that may haue authoritie to discide those coÌ„trouersies y t may arise by occasioÌ„ of sinister construing of y e meaning of the words of the lawe or by occasion of the darknesse of the same But where finde you any such darknesse or imperfection in the Scriptures of God Dooth not Dauid say Lucerna pedibus meis verbum tuum lumeÌ„ semitis meis Thy worde sayth Dauid is a Lanterne to my féete and a lyght to my pathes Take héede that you be not one of them that Esay speaketh of That doe call lyght darknesse and darknesse lyght c. I doo graunt that there may some question arise amongst men about the vnderstaÌ„ding of some places of Scripture but this ryseth not of the darknesse that is in the scriptures but of that darknesse that is in mans vnderstanding Which till it be opened by the mercifull goodnesse of God cannot perceyue those thinges that doo belong to the spirite of God And we doo thinke it necessarie that there be good and learned men chosen put in authoritie in the Church such as may when néede is call together y e most graue wyse and godlie learned persons in the feare of God to delyberate for the good gouernment of the Church and to take order that all thinges in the Church may be done to the edification of the same according to the rule of S. Paule And if any proude or froward person or any simple or ignoraunt person doo mooue any question or his or theyr misdemeanour doo cause any questioÌ„ to be mooued or any doubt to aryse about the true meaning of any part of the Scripture We thinke it méete that in these cases those places of Scripture be reuerendly weighed by those wyse learned graue godlie men so called together in the feare of God And that the persons so in doubt be by them certified of the true meaning of those places And that if they will not yéeld to that interpretation that shall be made by those men and prooued by due circumstances conference of those places with other to be the verie meaning of the holie Ghost in those places then we holde those men for Heretiques and doo iudge them worthy to be excommunicated Thus if you wyll you may sée that we are some thing wiser then your Burgesse in Parliament and not so worthy to be laughed to scorne as he Although we doo not make these men Iudges of the scripture but we doo put them in trust to search the Scriptures that both they and we may submit our selues to that iudgement which they by theyr reuerende searching shall finde in the Scriptures As for the fortie places of Scripture that the Arrians brought for the defence of theyr horrible Heresie we are able enough by the help of God to set foorth plainly in theyr true meaning and to withstand the Arrians without the helpe of our Catholique Church Notwithstanding the fortie places of Scripture that they bring more then we can bring for the trueth And we say as S. Austine sayth that the Scriptures to mysse vnderstanded and mysse applied are the Heretiques bowe to shoote out theyr owne venemous arrowes And as Vincentius sayth They are the shéepes cloathing which the Woolfe dooth shrowde her selfe in in c. Yea and we confesse that the
Reasons if happily they had any force Secondly that which you bring out of y e fift of S. Iohns Gospell to prooue the scripture to be but witnes bearer to y e truth and not the Iudge though it haue some shew of reason yet being well wayed it well vanishe for you imagine because you finde the worde witnesse which is Verbum forence That by by you must haue a pitched Court a iudgement seate where shall be presented many persons in seuerall places one to be witnesse an other to be Iudge and perhaps some to be iustified and some to be condempned But if you had wayed other places of scripture you shoulde haue séene that the holy Ghoste admitteth no such straight collctions but framing his writing to our capacitie Useth some time one phrase and sometime an other And you might haue found where the worde is called a Iudge as in the twelfth Chapter of the same Euangelist If any man heare my wordes and beleeue them not I iudge him not c. He that refuseth me and receyueth not my words hath one that iudgeth him The word that I haue spoken shall iudge him in the last day For I haue not spoken of my selfe c. Now iudge you how soundly you haue gathered it is witnesse therefore not Iudge or not rather bothe a witnesse a Iudge So might you reason of the diuerse Metaphors giuen to the word which is called Bread Wine Oile Milke Hony Water Raine Light Fyre Golde Siluer Pearle and Iron rod Scepter Sword the breath of the Lords mouth Now were it not a fonde Reason to gather because it is the breath of the Lordes mouth therfore it is no Sword because it is a sword or Iron rod therfore it is not Gold c. Or because it is Gold therfore it is no bread when as the holy Ghost hath set downe those sundrie Metaphors to expresse the power dignitie and commoditie of the worde But this is none of your six Reasons and therfore the weight of your cause lyeth not vpon it yet in pronouncing your Treatise before witnesse you gaue it a greate force ¶ Now to your Reasons YOur first Reason is grouÌ„ded vpon a false principle for you imagine our church to be without a Ministerie to teach and open the Scriptures which is not so yea rather your Préestes are mute and not onely that but ye close vp the booke of God will not let it be read to make the Scriptures wholy mute least they might bewray your corruptions But God be thanked God hath opened the mouthes of many by the Scriptures to witnes agaynst your errors and so iudge you by the same wordes if you amend not Your second Reason pretendeth that the Scripture is verie full of hard déepe mysteries surely I confesse that the Scripture hath his harde Misteries and hard places but hath it not also his easie familyar doctrines Is there not meate for all Estates Milke for babes and strong meate for good stomacks But I dare be bolde to auouch that it was Sathans policie to robbe the people of the whole vse of the Scriptures vnder pretence of ambiguitie as though the whole Scriptures were nothing else but Rydles As for the tryall of harde places the learned haue set downe two excellent rules which I meruaile you can reiect the one is conference of Scripture with Scripture the other is begging of wisedome of God who giueth it to the Babes lyttle ones and hydeth it from the wise in their owne conceyte who stumble at playne places not being dyrected by Gods spirite But howsoeuer they labour to trie the spirites or whatsoeuer knowledge they doo attaine they leaue the suueraigntie of the iudgement to the word Your thyrde Reason grounded on Saint Peters testimony 2. Peter 1. Erreth in not considering what the Apostle meaneth by priuate or not priuate you séeme to place it in the multytude of personnes that giue the interpretation but the Apostle placeth it in the authoritie of the Author of the word Therefore one Prophete speaking in the Lordes name being truely sent from the Lorde is more to be beléeued then the whole packe of Préestes resisting of mallice or ignorance and they being many are priuate and one Prophete being but one is not priuate Secondly you pretende that euerie man may interprete the Scriptures as he lysteth which is a false charge But we desyre them and allowe them to reade the Scriptures and to sée whether those thinges which we teache them be so or no according to the example of the faithfull Acts. 17. And as they are commaunded by Christe and the Apostle 1. Iohn 4. In your fowrth Reason whyle you went about to temper our pride as you say it séemeth you disteÌ„pered your own wits in putting downe so many things in y e name of vnwritten verities which notwithstaÌ„ding are written you aske of the matter when I suppose ye meane y e termes brought in by the Fathers to expresse the doctrine more plainlie As the word Trinity person and other to make plaine the doctrine against the Arrians Héere you were foully ouerséen And you would make as beléeue that the Church hath authoritie to poynt vs newâ— Articles of faith without warrant of scripture she was wont to challenge some liberty in Ceremonies indifferent things but you giue her power in Articles of faith Your fift Reason stumbleth on the false principle whereon you grounded your first Reason where you iudge no gouernment to be in our Church because we giue the highest rule to the worde gouerne thereby as by a most perfect lawe after which no newe Parliament néede to be called to adde or diminishe from it but all men of all estates ought to put to theyr hands to sée it executed and kept for the which cause if they at any tyme assemble the worde written is theyr direction Against your sixt Reason I auouch that he that appealeth to the iudgement of the written worde dooth yéelde a most waighty Reason to ratifie the sending of the holy Ghost to his Church and that it is the spirite of trueth For 〈◊〉 the Apostles were so mightely endewed with the spirite that they bothe taught and left in writing the whole CouÌ„cels of God enough to make the man of God perfect c Then the Church that challengeth the promise of that spirite wherewith they were endewed must subscribe to that trueth which they haue lefte written for whatsoeuer is not agreeablâ— thereto commeth from an other spirit opposing it selfe against the spirit of God which is neuer contrarie to it selfe Thus I haue bréeflie layde down 〈…〉 which I could haue done more at large but Maâ—ster Crowley hath giuen you matter enough and yet more then eyther he or I can wryte is set downe by Chemnicius and others whose Treatises you might doo well eyther to reade for your learning or to impugne if you be able ¶ Your well wyller H. T. FINIS Iohn â— The first Reason The secoÌ„d Reason The third Reason 2. Pet. 1. d. The fourth Reason The fift Reason The sixt Reason Titu 3. 2. Tim. 3. Luk. 24. 1. Cor. 2. 2. Cor. 3. Aug. de verbis Domini ser 13. 2. Pet. 3. 1. Tim. 3. Tom. 6. Mark 16. Phil. 3. Epist 15. De Bapt. Libr. 2. Cap. 2. Ephe. 6. 1. Cor. 11. De Trini Libr. 15. Iam. 1. 1. Cor. 11. In. 1. Iohn Epist Cap. 2. 2. Pet. 1. Sessio 4. Lyranus in 2. Epi. Peter Psal 110. Math. 22. Tom. 3. Ephe. 3. Iohn 15. 20. 1. Pet. 3. Ieroni Tom. 4. Mark 10. 1. Cor. 7. Mark a. Apoc. 1. Collo 2. Acts. 15. Luk. 11. 1. Pet. 5. Tom. 1. Disti 16. An. 956. Vorat Plat. Plat. Volat. Volat. Plat. Psal 119. Esai 5. 1. Cor. 2. 1. Cor. 14. Luke 22. Psal 91. Alexan. 3. An. 1174. Math. 4. Sap. 4. Tom. 4. Esai 59. Esai 44. Iohn 16. Luke 10. In Asceticis