seauen when Bonifacius Pope there claimed as they say supreamacy first in the Church D. Downames vvordes be q Downame lib. 1. pag. 4. About the yeare of our Lord six hundred and seauen Boniface the Pope and his Successours claymed and obtayned to be head of the Catholike or Vniuersall Church Then I thus demonstrate from these Protestants that this Church of Rome both claymed and exercised this supreame authority vvhen it vvas in this flourishing and best estate a rule to Churches of faith anker of piety c. First D. Sutcliffe is vvitnesse r Sutcl subuers pag. 57. Ireneus saith that euery Church ought to haue respect to the Church of Rome for her eminent principallity vvhich vvas long before any generall Councell or Christian Emperour to giue or allowe this priuiledge Secondly D. Field plainely acknowledgeth ſ Field lib. 3. cap. 1. that the supreamacy belonged to the Popes of Rome before the first Nicen Councell Then by the rules vvhich he giueth to knowe true Traditions t pa. 242. sup custome of the Church consent of Fathers or an Apostolike Churches testimony this must needes be of that kinde And then equall in authority vvith Scripture as he acknowledgeth u page 134. of such Traditions M. Ormerod ascendeth to Pope Anacletus liuing within an hundred yeares of Christ his wordes be these x Ormer pict pap pag. 78. To proue that the Church of Rome hath the preeminence ouer all Churches Anacletus alleadgeth Math. 16. vers 18. Vpon this Rocke will I build my Church and he expoundeth it thus super hanc Petram id est super Ecclesiam Romanam Vpon this Rocke that is vpon the Church of Rome will I build my Church This is as great a clayme of supreamacy and by as great vvarrant as any Pope nowe claymeth it Yet Anacletus vvas a Saint and holy Pope euen in the best estate of that Church Againe there were at those daies accounted but three great parts of the world Asia Africke Europe yet we are told by these Protestants that the Pope in that flourishing and vnspotted time of the Church of Rome claymed and exercised this supreamacy in all these parts For Asia though in the Greeke Church D. Couell telleth vs y Couell against the plea of the Innoc. pa. 65. that Pope Victor in that time did authoritatiuely clayme supreamacy ouer all Asia excommunicating the Churches of it to vse his wordes in seperating all Asia from the vnity of the faithfull for being disobedient in the point and question of Easter What greater supreamacy can be claymed in the Church then to excommunicate and put forth of the Church so great a part of the world D. Downame yeeldeth to Bellarmine y Downame lib. 2. Antich pag. 105. that S. Augustine Victor Vticensis in Africke vvere of opinion that to adhere to the Church of Rome was a marke of a true Catholike in those times And M. Perkins saith z Per. problem pa. 237. 238. Appeales were often made out of Africke to the Popes of Rome in those dayes Neither doth this Doctor denie a Down supr pa. 106. 107. but the Bishops then did sweare obedience to the Pope And entreating of a Bishop recanting his heresies he writeth of him in these wordes b Down supr pag. 107. He sweareth to renounce his former heresies to professe maintayne that faith religion which the Bishoppe and Church of Rome did professe M. Ormerod witnesseth c Ormerod supr pag. 44. that S. Leo taught that God did assist and direct that See in decrees Of Europe there can be no question for generally Protestants agree with D. Field d Field of the Church D. Doue e Doue persw pag. 29. 30. D. Couell f Couel defen of Hook pag. 74. 75. 76. and M. Ormerod g Ormer pict pap pag. 184 that the regiment of the West Churches among which this nation is belonged to the Pope of Rome And D. Sutcliffe giueth particuler examples h Sutcl subu pag. 19. how S. Gregory cōmanded to vse his wordes the Bishops of France commanded also in England the constituting of our Archbishop S. Augustine and the very See of that preeminence at Canterbury D. Couell vvriteth the same i Cou. against Burges p. 49. of Pope Gregories commanding authority in all Spayne who prouoked by the heresie of the Arrians commanded that through all Spaine there should be but once dipping in Baptisme M. Middleton vvitnesseth k Middleton papistomast pag. 39. that at the least the first generall Councell of Nice taught the dignity of Rome ouer the West Prouinces in which we of this nation are and that by old custome which was when that Church was in her best and flourishing estate a rule to all And to proue this custome both larger then ouer the West that is vniuersal ouer al Churches and from the Apostles he addeth thus l page 200. Papias liuing in the Apostles time taught Peters primacy Romish Episcopality And D. Downame writeth thus m Downame l. 1. Anticl rist cap. 3. pa. 35. Diuers Bishops of Rome before the time of Socrates the Historian in that vnspotted reguler time of that Church contended to haue the primacy ouer all other Churches and that is the chiefe scope of many of their Epistles decretall Neither doth D. Downame n page 36. denie but both Iustinian the Emperor and the great generall Councell of Chalcedon in the primatiue Church attributed to the Pope of Rome to be head of the Church which he saith is the greatest stile And he addeth thus of that Church in that best estate Titles of honour and preeminence were giuen to the Church of Rome as the chiefe or head of the Churches And againe Before the graunt of Phocas the Church of Rome had the preeminence and superiority ouer all other Churches excepting that of Constantinople And both D. Field o Field lib. 1. of the Church telleth him absolutely that the Title of Constantinople was but intruded and vsurped And when the first Nicen Councell gaue such honour to the Roman Church there was not so much as the name of Constantinople And that this preeminence and superiority was a commanding and binding authority is proued before from all parts of the world wherein it was exercised in that best and flourishing estate of that Church That no Councell could be kept none confirmed nothing concluded in the primatiue Church without the Bishoppe of Rome his approbation wil approue in the chapter of Councels hereafter Wherefore seing we haue beene taught before by Protestants that one primacy chiefe commanding authority was euer necessary in the true Church of Christ That S. Peter as chiefe of the Apostles had and exercised it in that time And after him the primatiue and most ancient holy Popes of Rome as successors vnto him euer claimed exercised and executed the same soueraigne spiritual Pastorall office
corruptions as may partly appeare by the Abridgement of the Ministers of Lincolne Dyocesse The Protestant Authour of the Aduertisement testifieth h Aduertisemēt an 1604 The Bible is peruerted in 848. places in the old Testament The English Protestant Bible is inferior to the Turkes Alcaron And so Christianity is denyed in England by publike authority Therefore most justly might his Majesty say in the publike conference i Conference pag. 46. That he could neuer yet see a Bible well translated into English but the worst of all he thought the Geneua to be Chapter 6. The true lawfull and juridicall exposition of Scriptures is in the Roman Church and not with Protestants THE true and vvarranted exposition of Scriptures is absolutely proued before to belong to the true Church of Christ and the Roman Church For this place D. Field vvriteth thus a Field lib. 4. c. 19. pa. 134. We confesse that neither conference of places nor consideration of the Antecedentia and Consequentia nor looking into the originals are of any force vnlesse we finde the thinges which we conceiue to be vnderstood and meant in the places interpreted to be consonant to the rule of faith And this rule of faith as he further teacheth b page 242. must be tryed either by the generall practise of the Church the renowmed of all ages or the Pastors of an Apostolike Church vvhich as the vvorld can vvitnesse no Protestant can make clayme vnto Therefore as D. Couell vvriteth c Couell def of Hooker pag. 85. Doctrines deriued exhortations deducted interpretations agreeable are not the word of God And yet these be the groundes of Protestant religion and those vvhereupon their pretended faith and justification it selfe vvith them dependeth Although D. Field thus againe condemneth it d Field p. 226 Priuate interpretation is not so proposed and vrged as if they would binde all others to receiue it Therefore he assigneth e page 228. three kindes of interpretation and judgement One of discretion common to all the other of direction in the Pastours of the Church and a third of jurisdiction proper to them that haue supreame power in the Church And this third hee only acknowledgeth in the Bishops assembled in a generall Councell which as he teacheth may interpret the Scripture and by their authority suppresse all them that gaine-say such interpretation and subject euery man that shall disobey such determinations as they consent vpon to excommunication and censures of like nature Hitherto his vvordes Nowe that there neither hath beene nor possibly can bee any generall Councell among Protestants none clayming further jurisdiction then their owne temporall Terrytories it is both apparant to all and acknovvledged f Relation of relig cap. 47. in expresse vvordes by the Protestant Relator of religion And yet besides D. Field recited before D. Sutcliffe g Sutcl subuers pa. 119. D. Morton h Morton epist dedicat 2. part Apol. lib. 4. 2. part Apol. pa. 340 cap. 18. M. Willet i Willet Antilog and the rest acknowledge ordinarily that a generall Councell hath the highest and binding judgement And although M. Willet doth say k Willet prefat Engl. Antilog pag. 71. 120. That in England the temporall Prince is Gouernour ruler chiefe ouerseer and steward of the Church to whose judgement and redresse the reformation of religion belongeth Yet he addeth l Pag. 150. 43. supr Neither he nor their Church hath any priuiledge from errour But plainely protesteth m Willet prefa to the reader in Antilo They must take out a newe lesson and learne to reforme their erroneous conceits And more then this is generally taught and confessed among them of which hereafter For this time and place I will only make exemplification of D. Doue his graunt and confession vvhich followeth in these vvordes n D. Doue perswas pag. 31. When the Masse was first put downe King Henry had his English Lyturgie and that was judged absolute without exception but when King Edward came to the Crowne that was condemned and an other in the place which Peter Martir and Bucer did approue as very consonant to Gods word When Queene Elizabeth beganne her raigne the former was judged to be full of imperfections and a newe was deuised and allowed by the consent of the Clergie but about the middle of her raigne we grewe weary of that booke and great meanes haue beene wrought to abandon that and establish an other which although it was not obtayned yet we doe at the least at euery change of Prince change our booke of common prayers we be so wanton that we knowe not what we would haue Hitherto his wordes and he freely confesseth errours in all these states and changes Yet this flitting from errour to errour finding no center hath beene so grieuous euen to some Protestants that the Suruey of the booke of common prayer vseth these wordes o Suruey of the commun booke pag. 159. 160. The late Archbishop of Canterbury as is credibly reported tooke such a griefe when the communion booke should haue beene altered discouered by these or like wordes good Lord when shall we knowe what to trust vnto that he presently fell into his palsey was carryed from the Court and dyed shortly after But let any man enter into a serious consideration of Protestant doctrine in this point that vnder paine of damnation vve are bound to finde and followe the truth That generall Councels as before may subject euery man disobeying their determinations to excommunication and censures of like nature the most terrible and fearefull punishment of this world And Protestants in England so seuerely punish all Catholikes for not consenting to their religion which themselues thus loade with errours and all judgements Ecclesiasticall euen generall Councels p Articul 21. anno 1562. may erre and haue erred euen in thinges pertayning vnto God as is defined in their Articles and is commonly taught and beleeued with them to excuse their errours This consideration is able to putmen not regardlesse of saluation into more then a quaking palsey Chapter 7. Traditions are of equall authority with Scripture yet proue Catholike religion THE dignity and authority of vnwritten and Apostolicall Traditions being lawfully proued was euer esteemed such that M. Wotton affirmeth a Wotton def of Perkins pag. 405. Out of all question we are bound to keepe them And telleth b page 436. That M. Perkins was of the same opinion c Field p. 134 D. Field speaketh of such Traditions in these vvordes There is no reason but these should be equall with the Scriptures For it is not the writing that giueth these thinges their authority but the worth and credit of him that deliuereth them though by word and liuely voice only He addeth also d Field p. 240 that the perpetuall Virginity of our Lady was a Tradition and only receiued by such authority and so doe other Protestants And both they
and D. Field e Field supr acknowledge Heluidius was condemned of heresie and justly for denyall thereof which could not be except to denie the doctrine of true Traditions were to denie the word of God in their judgements Nowe let vs see vvhat Traditions we shall haue approued by Protestants The same Authour maketh this discourse and diuision following f Field lib. ◠cap. 19. First we receiue the number and names of the Authours of bookes diuine and Canonicall as deliuered by Tradition This Tradition we admit the number authours and integrity of the partes of these bookes we receiue as deliuered by Tradition The second kinde of Tradition which we admit is that summary comprehension of the chiefe heades of Christian doctrine contayned in the Creede of the Apostles which was deliuered to the Church as a rule of faith The third is that forme of Christian doctrine and explication of the seuerall partes thereof which the first Christians receiuing of the same Apostles that deliuered to them the Scriptures commended to posterities This may rightly be tearmed a Tradition for that we neede a playne and distinct explication of many thinges which are some-what obscurely contayned in the Scriptures g Field p. 239 The fourth kinde of Tradition is the continued practise of such thinges as neither are contayned in the Scripture expressely nor the example of such practise expressely there deliuered though the groundes reasons and causes of the necessity of such practise he there contayned h p. 239 supr The fift kinde of Traditions comprehendeth such obseruations as in particuler are not commanded in Scripture nor the necessity of them from thence concluded c. Lastly comming to Traditions touching conuersation and manners he preuenteth confuteth the vsuall objections of Protestants about this doctrine in these wordes i Field pag. 241. 242. That the Apostles deliuered many thinges of this nature to the Churches some by way of precept some by way of counsaile and aduise only some to particuler Churches and some to all some to continue but for a time and some to continue for euer we make no doubt And exemplifying that the Lordes day or Sonday is of this kinde he addeth k Field supr pag. 242. And sundry other thinges there are which doubtlesse the Apostles deliuered by Tradition but they are confounded with Ecclesiasticall Traditions as Waldensis aptly noteth that we might the more reuerence the constitutions of the Church and are dispensable by the guides of the Church Hitherto be the wordes of D. Field Then to make ashort reflexion vpon this his doctrine By his first rule of Traditions he must needes graunt vnto vs which I haue proued before at large that althose bookes which the Roman church approueth for Scripture together with the speciall doctrines of prayer for the dead to Angels c. are Traditions For not only D. Field and his rules doe so assure vs but D. Couell l Couell against Burges pag. 87. from the primatiue Church hath told vs that all which we receiue were the treasure of the holy Ghost and diuine instrument which the Apostles deliuered to the Churches Secondly we must of necessity resort to the Roman Church to knowe and learne the forme of Christian doctrine and explication of the seuerall parts thereof and the obscurities of Scriptures For he saith that the Apostles deliuered this as a Tradition to posterities And no posterity of Protestants can be of this posterity because both their priorities posterities denie Traditions Thirdly D. Field must needes seeke for or allowe of many Traditions which he remembreth not and in all equall judgement as many Articles of Catholike religion as we claime by Tradition for in his fourth fift and sixt member of Traditions he euer speaketh m Field pag. 241. 242. of them in the plurall number as thinges obseruations of this sort sundry other and the like And yet he only recounteth baptisme of Infants in the fourth n page 239. The obseruation of Lent in the fift o page 239. and Sonday or the Lordes day in the last If he will say they are confounded with Ecclesiasticall Traditions as he did that men might more reuerence the constitutions of the Church Let them at the last recant their contempt and dislike against them And this the rather because the rules vvhich he assigneth to knowe true Traditions being p Field p. 242 the authority and custome of the Church consent of Fathers or testimony of an Apostlike Church neither doe nor possibly can tell of any Traditions to aduantage Protestants which denie all Traditions So that of necessity both the Traditions and rules to knowe them doe and must belong to the Church Apostolike of Rome being in this question a rule of it selfe as he hath declared Then by the doctrine of D. Field and the Protestants before and nowe to be cited Catholikes may lawfully say with the ancient Fathers with D. Couell q Cou. against Burges pag. 139. 124. 125 and other Protestants That the signe of the Crosse is an Apostolicall constitution and Tradition With D. Couel r pa. 122. sup againe and the ancient Fathers from them that the mixture of water with wine in the Eucharist is an Apostolical Tradition With the Pastors of the Apostolike Churches three hundred Fathers and consent and custome of the Church D. Fields rules for true Traditions in the second Nicen Councell ſ Conc. Nic. 2. That reuerence of Images is an Apostolicall Tradition With S. Chrisostome S. Augustine and S. Epiphanius by D. Fields rules and M. Middletons t Middleton Papistomast pag. 137. 138 47. 45. graunt That sacrifice and prayer for the dead was an Apostolicall Tradition With the ancient Fathers so receiuing from those vvhich vvent before them by graunt also of M. Middleton u pa. 134. sup That vowes of chastity and single life in Priestes is to be obserued by Tradition With the ancient Fathers that Reliques to be reuerenced is a Tradition when M. Willet x Willet Antilog pag. 13. telleth vs that Vigilantius was condemned of heresie for denying it With his Majesty y Conference pag. 13. and the conference with the consent of Fathers Apostolike Churches c. That the particuler and personal absolution from sinne after confession is Apostolicall and a very Godly ordinance With the Protestant z Conference supr pag. 18. Bishop of Winchester antiquity so consenting That baptisme to be ministred by priuate persons in time of necessity is an holy Tradition With his Majesty and the said conference a Conference pag. 35. 36. that Bishops he diuinae ordinationis With the same Protestant conference b Conference pag. 10. 11. and antiquity not only that Confirmation is an Apostolicall Tradition But because it is so joyned by them with Baptisme and hath both a visible signe and grace by the Communion booke c Cōm booke tit Confirmation reuiued that it
is a Sacrament by Tradition With the ancient Father S. Basil M. Wotton d Wotton def of Perkins p. 465. 466. so assuring vs of his opinion that the very profession of our faith by which we beleeue in the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost is a Tradition With D. Ceuell e Cou. against the plea of the Innoc. p. 104. That it was an Apostolicall Tradition or Ordination to ordayne Archbishops in their Prouinces as Bishops also in their Diocesse to rule the Church With the Bishop of Winchester f B. Bilsons Suruey of Christs sufferings p. 664. against the Puritans that the Article of Christes discent to hell and the Creede wherein it is contayned is an Apostolicall Tradition deliuered to the Church by the direction and agreement of the Apostles And to conclude briefly why may not we say with the Councell of Florence cited by M. Willet g Willet Synop controuers 1. q. 7. for generall and the Patriarkes of the Apostolike Sees there present with the Councell of Constance not of vnequal authority and the Councel of Trent to passe others with six Cardinals foure Legates three Patriarkes two and thirty Archbishops two hundred twenty eight Bishops and fiue Abbots there assembled as D. Doue telleth vs that Protestancy in all points is false and Catholike religion true when no Protestant Church can shewe any one such like authority for their cause And this of necessity D. Field with his Protestants must acknowledge or freely by their recited doctrine confesse that there neither is nor can be hereafter by his rules true and certayne Scripture Tradition or Religion in the world For if we neither haue Scripture exposition of the difficulties in it or Tradition but by Tradition as he hath graunted and those only three rules to knowe them if those rules may propose vnto vs false Scriptures false expositions of their obscurities and false Traditions in matters of faith faith cannot be certayne and religion grounded vpon it is ouerthrowne Chapter 8. Of the authority and commanding highest power of generall Councels prouing the doctrine of the Roman Church IT may sufficiently be gathered by that which hath beene entreated before both that generall Councels are of highest authority in the Church of Christ and their testimony for Catholike religion Therefore to be briefe in this question concerning their chiefest judgement and preeminence first the Bishop of Winchester writeth thus a B. Bils Suruey of Christs suffer pa. 83. The authority of generall Councels is most holsome in the Church and citeth S. Augustine to that purpose D. Morton writeth b Mortō part 2. Apol. pag. 340. l. 4. c. 18 That concilium publicum est summus judex a generall Councell is highest judge The Protestant Relator of religion is of the same opinion c Relation of the state of relig cap. 47. and calleth it the only remedie in such times of controuersies about religion D. Sutcliffe hath these wordes d Sutcl subu pag. 119. Generall Councels haue souer aigne authority in externall gouernement And againe e Sutc. against D. Kellison p. 41. 42. 102. False it is that we will admit no judge but Scriptures for we appeale still to a lawfull generall Councell f Sutcl subu epist dedicat We hold all the Christian faith explaned in the six generall Councels D. Field is so cleare in this question that he telleth vs first g Field pag. 226. cap. 16. Priuate interpretations doe not binde vs nor are proposed to that purpose secondly he teacheth h Field p. 228 that only Bishops assembled in a generall Councell haue authority to interpret Scriptures and by their authority to suppresse all them that gaine-say such interpretation and subject euery man that shall disobey such determinations as they consent vpon to excommunication and censures of like nature Hitherto of the highest dignity of generall Councels Nowe let vs examine by these Protestants whether they be for them or Catholikes That they be not nor can be for Protestants thus I demonstrate from themselues The wordes of the Protestant Relator of religion are these i Relation of religion c. 47 The Protestants are seuered bandes or rather scattered troopes each drawing a diuers way without any meanes to pacifie their quarrels to take vp their controuersies No Prince with any preeminence of jurisdiction aboue the rest no Patriarke one or more to haue a common superintendance or care of their Churches for correspondency and vnity no ordinary way to assemble a generall Councell of their part the only hope remayning euer to asswage their contentions Hitherto the Relator Where vve see that first the Protestants are diuided secondly they are without any meanes of vnion in controuersies there is no jurisdiction among them no way for that which is the only hope to end contentions in religion therefore this only and highest remedie by generall Councels cannot possibly be for them except they will haue an Vnion Church Faith Truth and Religion vnpossible The same is sufficiently also proued before from D. Couell in my Chapter k Cap. 3. supr Couell against the plea of the Innoc. pag. 103. 104 105. 106 107 108. 109. of the Popes authority where he alloweth of necessity one highest chiefe spirituall commander in the Church to such purposes And shewing how before the time of Constantine there could be no pretence of any Councell to be assembled but by the spiritual authority he addeth thus l Couell supr pag. 110. The Synode of Rome in the yeare 225 called by Cornelius Pope of Rome against Nouatus consisted of threescore Bishops many others of the Clergie And further in these wordes m page 109. And after when Princes came to embrace the faith the best meanes they could deuise to procure peace and aduance religion was by their lawes to referre Ecclesiasticall causes to Ecclesiasticall judges Nowe concerning the Roman Church first the Protestant Relator of religion which hath excluded Protestants from al hope of any generall Councell writeth of the Roman Church in the same place and in these wordes n Relation of relig supr cap. 47. The other Catholikes haue the Pope as a common father aduiser and conductor to them al to reconcile their jarres to appease their displeasures to decide their difference aboue all thinges to drawe their religion by consent of Councels to vnity And this is so cleare in the judgement of al these Protestants that when they denie the authority of generall Councels they haue no pretence of excuse but because they were called by the Popes authority so D. Field o Field booke of the church D. Sutcliffe p Sutcl subu against Kellison c. M. Willet q Will. Antil and the rest And yet D. Fields argument or rule of the Pastour of an Apostolike Church the primatiue Church and holy Fathers consenting doth warrant vs that priuiledge euer belonged to the See of Rome that without
and dignity ouer all Churches in all parts of the world and neither by Councell Emperor or such Donation but by old custome and the institution of Christ And the same Church as before still continueth the true Church of Christ I hope it is no offence to agree with it in this as in other questions Chapter 4. All bookes receiued for Scripture by the Roman Church are Canonicall THus hauing by the directions sentence of Protestant writers of so late memory as this present is found out that the Roman Church is the spouse of Christ his true Church and piller of truth whose communion we must embrace followe her directions rest in her judgement liuing dying therein to haue eternal life the only and chiefest happynes which we can seeke or find And that the authority of the chiefe Bishops of that holy Apostolike See hath euer bin so soueraigne chiefe commanding and supreame as these men haue taught vs in the former Chapters we might here by D. Fields censure and aduise confine our selues and vvade no further in so many intricate controuersies of religion But to giue a finall contentment to all curiosities let vs briefly enter into a particuler-like examination of all principall Articles in question And first of Scriptures vvhose authority is either only or chiefest with Protestants D. Couell writeth in these wordes a Couell def of Hook p. 31 The Church of Rome teacheth no bad opinion to affirme that the Scriptures are holy diuine in themselues but so esteemed by vs for the authority of the Church And againe That the Scriptures are true we haue it from the Church And further thus b pag. 32. 33. supr The Church hath foure singuler offices towardes the Scripture First to be of them as it were a faithfull register Secondly to discerue and judge betweene false and adulterate and that which is true and perfect The third to publish and diuulge to proclayme as a cryer the true edict of our Lord him selfe The last is to be an Interpreter and in that following the safest rule to make an vndiuided vnity of the truth vncapable of contradiction to be a most faithfull expositor of his owne meaning And concludeth thus c page 34. supr We say that we are taught to receiue the word of God from the authority of the Church we see her judgement we heare her voice in humility subscribe vnto all this Hitherto be D. Couels wordes for the major proposition of my Syllogisme But the minor or second position that the Roman Church is the true Church of Christ is allowed and proued by Protestants before Therefore this Protestant argument must be thus concluded All bookes which the Church of Rome proposeth for Scriptures the expositions which shee deliuereth c. In humility we must subscribe vnto them receiue them as the word of God from her authority D. Doue referreth the question what bookes be Canonicall Scripture to the two Doctors S. Augustine and S. Hierome His vvordes be these d Doue perswas pag. 15. Catholikes proue them to be Canonicall out of S. Augustine We that they be Apocrypha out of S. Hierome both which Doctors are of no small authority with the Church of Rome and therefore in this we differ no more from them then S. Hierome did from S. Augustine Therefore I hope for many causes Protestants will giue place vnto vs in this question It is knowne S. Augustine in calling was aboue S. Hierome In learning D. Couell telleth you e Cou. against Burg. pag. 3. he was farre the most learned Doctor that euer was or shall be in all likely-hood Thirdly your publike Conference f Conference infr to be after cited hath answered S. Hieromes authority for Catholikes Fourthly S. Augustine speaketh in the name of the whole Church for these bookes his wordes be these g August tom 10. ser 191. We receiue the old and newe Testament in that number of bookes which the authority of the holy Catholike Church hath deliuered And in the place where he deliuereth the Canon of Scriptures as Catholikes nowe doe hee giueth these rules to him that vvould knowe vvhich bee true Scriptures his vvordes bee these h Tom. 3. lib. 2. doct Christ cap. 8. In Canonicall Scriptures let him followe the authority of the most Catholike Churches among which those be which haue deserued to haue Apostolike Sees and to receiue their Epistles And so proceeding too long to be cited concludeth by all his rules that all those bookes vvhich the Roman Church nowe receiueth there remembred by S. Augustine are Canonicall But to be briefe The Protestant Surueyor of the communion booke affirmeth plainely i Suruey of the booke of common prayer pag. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. that the Protestants of England must approue for Canonicall these bookes with the Roman Church So likewise doe the 22. Preachers of London in their Petition k Petit. of 22. preachers except against homilies and except 4. against the com booke And D. Field is of the same opinion or must be for thus he vvriteth l Field lib. 4. c. 23. pa. 245. The ancient and true beleeuing Iewes before the comming of Christ especially such as liued in Greece and nations out of Iury commonly called Hellenists receiued those bookes for Canonicall Scripture And to vse his vvordes Hence it came to passe that the Iewes deliuered a double Canon of Scripture to the Christian Churches And speaking againe of that volume of the Hellenists he addeth m page 246. These bookes joyned in one volume were translated out of Greeke into Latin and read by them of the Latin Church in that translation And entreating of S. Augustine and the Latin Fathers especially in Africke and the third Carthaginian Councell vvhere this Canon is receiued he vvriteth thus They reckon the bookes of Scripture according as they found them in vse in the Latin Church Then D. Field hath absolutely graunted that in the Latin Church vnder vvhich England is these Scriptures vvere euer esteemed for Canonicall And being translated as he acknowledgeth out of Greeke into Latin this Gretian vvill not easily persvvade but the Greeke Church also first embraced them for he saith thus n page 245. supr The Greeke Iewes or Hellenists deliuered this Canon to the Christian Churches then first to the Greeke Church being in Greece among them and best vnderstanding those Greeke Scriptures before they vvere translated into Latin The Protestant Conference at Hampton-Court entreating of the Protestant exceptions against these Scriptures vseth these wordes o Conference pag. 60. Most of the objections made against those bookes were the old cauils of the Iewes renewed by S. Hierome in his time who was the first that gaue them the name of Apocrypha which opinion vpon Ruffinus his challendge he after a sort disclaimed the rather because a generall offence was taken at his speaches in that kinde Hitherto the censure of that publike
the consent thereof no Councell could be called none confirmed as Pope Damasus r Damas epist ad Illiric hist tripart lib. 5. c. 28. vel 29. Theodor. hist Socrat. hist l. 2. c. 17. Sozō the ancient Fathers and Hystorians witnesse And the Bishoppe of Winchester graunteth these propositions ſ True differēce p. 66. 67 edit an 1586 The Canon of the primatiue Church made euery thing voide that was done without the Bishop of Rome And againe The Canon of the primatiue Church forbad any Councell to be called without his consent t Middleton papistom pag. 39. M. Middleton telleth vs that the first Nicen Councell did approue the dignity of Rome at the least ouer the West prouinces by old custome And if vve should enter into particulers First B. Bilson will tell vs that the Councell of Constance u p. 119 120. vvhere the Protestant doctrine was condemned in Husse and Wicliffe was a generall Councell So he witnesseth of the Councell of Basil x p. 124. 125. condemning the same for heresie M. Willet y Willet Synops controuers 1. q. 7. Limbomastix apud Parkes p. 137. 180. both in his Synopsis and Lymbomastix as M. Parkes is witnesse against him and himselfe also so accounteth it graunteth the same of the Councell of Florence where the seauen Sacraments Purgatory the Popes Supremacy c. were confirmed Of the Councell of Trent no man will question And yet D. Doue hath assured vs before z Doue persw pag. 14. that there were present in that Councell six Cardinals foure Legates three Patriarkes two and thirty Archbishops two hundred twenty eight Bishops The third part of such an assembly would haue beene a great countenance to Protestant religion farre greater then euer it had or is like to procure D. Couell a Couell def of Hook p. 21 and M. Parkes b Parkes against limbomastix p. 176 cite approue as a rule of faith the great Councell of Lateran where transubstantiation was defined and joyneth it with the primatiue Councels of Ephesus and Chalcedon and in the high matter of faith the Deity of the holy Ghost And to ascend to the first of Nice the Protestants haue confessed before c cap. 4. supr that Scriptures which we receiue and they denie were there approued M. Willet d Will. Antil pag. 88. 89. calleth the primatiue Councels of Neocaesarea Toletane the first and the fixt generall Councell allowed before by D. Sutcliffe wherein both generall and prouinciall precedent Councels vvere approued The Papall Church Popery doctrine in Popery And of the seauenth generall Councell he writeth thus e Will. Antil pag. 178. The Greekes in a generall Councell held at Nice confirmed and allowed the adoration of Images But this may suffice of this question for both the Popes supreamacy from the beginning and the authority of all ancient Councels Fathers and Hystories are so manifest for the present doctrine of the Roman Church That M. Middleton telleth vs f Middleton papistomast pag. 200. Papias liuing in the Apostles time taught Peters primacy or Romish Episcopality Concerning the second he vvriteth in these vvordes g page 193. supr Perusing Councels Fathers and Stories from the Apostles forward we finde the print of the Popes feete Whereby is manifest that euen from the Apostles to this present the doctrine of the Church of Rome was alwaies as occasion vvas giuen approued decreed and taught by the holy Councels Fathers and Hystories of all ages Chapter 9. The testimonie of ancient Fathers of great authority and for the doctrine of the Roman Church LASTLY in these generall questions or directions in religion let vs come to the testimony of the holy and learned Fathers of the primatiue Church although of these it appeareth by the former Chapter And consider first the value and dignity of their authority secondly to whose cause whether of Catholikes or Protestants it beareth witnesse The Bishop of Winchester in his Suruey of Christes sufferings writeth thus a B. Bilsons Suruey p. 85. The ancient consent of Godly Fathers is with great care to be searched and followed of vs chiefly in the rule of faith And againe b pa. 82. sup We rest vpon the Scriptures of God vpon the authority of the ancient Doctors and Councels And to the objection of those Protestants which say c page 83. The Canon of the Scriptures is perfect and sufficient in it selfe for all thinges therefore what neede is there that the authority of Ecclesiasticall interpretation should be joyned with it He answereth with Vincentius Lirinensis in these wordes Least euery man should wrest the Scriptures to his fansie and sucke thence not the truth but the patronage of his errour And he addeth that S. Augustine gaue this respect not only to generall Councels but to the testimonies of particuler Fathers Ireneus Cyprian Hilarius Ambrose Gregory Chrisostome Basil and others D. Sutcliffe writeth thus d Sutcl subuers pag. 87. We acknowledge the faith of the Fathers of the fourth fift and sixt ages and adjoyne our selues to that Church And against D. Kellison he vseth these wordes e Sutcliffe against D. Kellison pag. 17. The Fathers in all points of faith are for vs Protestants and not for the Pope M. Willet in the end of his Antilogie sweareth the matter in this manner f Willet Antilog p. 263. I take God to witnesse before whome I must render account c. That the same faith and religion which I defend is taught and confirmed in the more substantiall points by these Hystorians Councels Fathers that liued within fiue or six hundred yeares after Christ And in the page following his wordes be these g p. 264. supr It is most notoriously euident that for the grossest points of Popery as transubstantiation sacrifice of Masse worshipping of Images justification by workes the supreamacy of the Pope prohibition of Mariage and such other they Catholikes haue no shewe at al of any euidence from the Fathers within fiue hundred yeares of Christ And thus againe h Willet Antilog pa. 271. The ancient Fathers that liued within six hundred yeares after Christ are against them And thus I might alleadge from others especially triumphing in this manner either when they write against Puritans whome the Fathers condemne as the Bishop of Winchester is cited or when they speake in generall and the authorities of Fathers are neither to be answered as produced by Catholikes or alleadged for Protestants as it appeareth in those places of D. Sutcliffe and M. Willets great and glorious speaches of the Fathers But when these men are either to answere those primatiue Fathers cited for our cause or stand vpon their testimony in particuler for themselues the case is altered as is objected i Apud B. Bils Suruey p. 84 to the Bishop of Winchester by his Puritan opposite But howe truly they keepe their vvordes and oathes in these protestations shall be hereafter