feast of Easter Supremacy that they complained when Phocas conferred it vppon Boniface It is an incredible happines which you ascribe to the Roman Church that it neuer fell into heresy when as the n 2. Thes 2.7 mystery of iniquity began to worke euen in the age of the Apostles Then was o Iob. Mar. belg pag 441. Petrarch too blame for calling Rome the Whore of Babylon and p Hist pag. 535. Mathew Paris for saying she was a shamelesse common and prostituted whore Did not Marcellinus commit Idolatry in offering sacrifice to Iupiter Did not Pope Liberius fall into Arianisme when Athanasius stood vppon his right feete I am sure you haue heard that Honorius the first was a Monotholite holding that Christ had but one will and one nature Iab The q Pag. 102. sincerity of doctrine as Ruffinus noteth is the cause that the Church of Rome did neuer add any worde or sillable to the Creede but kept the same intire without addition Ma. Then you graunt as much as we craue that those principall Iewells which the Catholique Church prizest most came not out of Roomes Treasury Me thincks you should blush when you name Ruffinus for how haue you degenerated from that auncient Rome who haue not bene ashamed to add not only sillables but more then eleuen articles to the Apostolicall Creede Reckon them vppon your fingers and you shall neither finde the Popes Supremacy nor Purgatory c. which you haue added as poyntes of like necessity to be beleiued Nick. Then haue they litle affinity with the true Church for r Lett. to T. H. pag. 68. she taketh not vppon her to controll the holy Scripture her mother from whome she drew her first breath She openeth not her mouth till her Mother haue deliuered her minde she commeth not of her owne head with a sleeuelesse arrant Iab You ſ Pag 104. describe the Spouse of Christ as a mannerly young mayd brought vp in Luthers schoole You deserue a t Pag. 106. coate with foure sleeues for this Metaphor which maketh the Church Scripture Daughter Nick. Are these the u Praef. Cumaean sopps you promised take heede least you pluck an old house ouer your eares Such liueries best befitt your indigent followers Let him weare your fooles-coate with fower sleeues that is free of your company You may cutt as large a thonge as you list of your owne hide Ma. The Metaphor is sacred and doth not deserue so ridiculous a weede S. Peter vseth it saying that we are borne a newe not of mortall seede but of immortall x 1. Pet. 1.23 Rom. 10.17 by the worde of God I haue begotten you saith S. Paul y 1. Cor. 4.15 by the Ghospell The Church being begotten and gathered by the worde must not stand vppon tearmes of seniority with her progenitor Iab The z Pag. 107. Church of the old testament was some thousand yeares before scripture the Church of the newe testament did flourish many yeares before any Ghospel was written S. Irenaeus a Pag. 106. 107 writeth that many Churches in his time had neuer read any worde of Scripture yet did they flourish by keeping the Tradition of Christian doctrine in their heartes Ma. A man might pose you should he demaund what proofe you haue for your Negatiue that there were no sacred bookes before those fiue written by Moses seeing he mentioneth a b Num. 21.14 Booke of the warres of the Lord and the c Ioshua 10.13 Booke of the Iust what can you shewe to the contrary why those bookes might not be written by some of the Patriarches Doth not St. d Verse 14. Iude alleadge a testimony out of the prophecy of Enoch Min. Let vs not contend with him for this What if we graunt that the vnwritten worde was more auncient the difference was not in the matter but in the manner It was vnto them being ratifyed by the Prophets and confirmed by extraordinary reuelations in the nature of a written worde And when that worde was expressed in visible Caracters Traditions e Mat. 15.3 were of no longer vse As for the Ghospell it was written before the Race of eye-witnesses was extinct what they preached the same things they registred So that it was one and the f Proliteris spiritus Sancti gratiam se illis daturum repromisit Chrisost bom 1. in Mat. same worde by which the Church in all ages hath bene gathered For as g Euseb l. 3. 20. Irenaeus saith of Polycarpus he deliuered those things which he had learned of them who had seene the worde of life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wholy agreable to that which is written The same Father h Irenaeus l. 3. c. 1 also informes vs that the Apostles left in writing to the Church the same Ghospell which they had formerly preached by worde of mouth that it might be a foundation and pillar of our faith yea of that true and liuely saith which the Church hath receiued from them and doth prescribe to her Children As they preached saith S. Hierom. for the confirmation of faith so was it necessary they should write for the confusion of Heretiques Contra insidiosos errores saith S. i In Epist Ioh. 1. tract 2. Augustine voluit Deus ponere firmamentum in Scripturis Seeing then the ayme of Gods spirit in the deliuery of diuine Scripture which is k 2. Tim. 3.15 able to make a man wise vnto Saluation was as Theophilact writeth to preuent haereses pullulaturas what doe they but open a gappe for all heresyes which giue waye to vnwritten vncertayne and vnnecessary Traditions Considera quam sit extremae dementiae saith S. l Hom. 1. in Mat. Chrisostome nos qui primam illam dignitatem perdidimus ne secundo remedio vti velle ad salutem sed coelestia scripta quasi frustrà ac vanè posita dispicere Consider what extreme m Vide Euseb lib. 3. cap. 33. de Papiae Paradoxis traditione fulcitis madnesse it is that wee who haue lost that first dignity of purity should refuse to vse the second remedy for our Saluation by contemning those heauenly writings as if they were giuen in vaine and for no vse Thus in stead of the folly which you obiect S. Chrisostome requites you with the note of no lesse then extreme madnesse Iab Where is the perpetuall n Pag. 104. 105. Virginity of the B. Mother after the sacred birth of the Sonne of God written in the Scripture What is it but à perpetuall tradition of Gods Church S. Augustine saith it cannot be clearly proued out of Scripture that Heretiques returning to the Church should not be rebaptized and yet the Church hath forbidden the same Shall we tearme this prohibition sleeuelesse Ma. The perpetuall Virginity of the blessed Mother is no matter of saluation whether we beleiue it or no. Yet are we of that opinion because as we read not any thing to the
contrary so it sorteth best with her honour who was the Mother of our Sauiour As for rebaptizing of those who were baptized by o Efficacia Sacramenti est ex institutioni ordinansis non ex sanctitate minâ—strantis Baptismus talis est qualâ—s ille iâ— câ—ius potestate datur non qualiâ— percuius ministerium datur Aug. in Ioh. â— Heretiques we rather follow Augustine then Cyprian yet not because he hath taught it but for that as him selfe saith Ex Euangelio profero certa documenta I haue sure p Eph 4.5 proofes out of the Ghospell Yea he pronounceth a q Cont. lit Petil. lib. 3. ca 6. curse vppon all such as teach any thing either of Christ or his Church or any other matter of faith besides that which is receyued from the Legall and Euangelicall Scriptures I once heard a Papist exceedingly puzled with a speeck of his to r Ad Max. lib. 3. cap. 14. Maximinus Neque ego Synodum Nicaenam nectu Ariminensem debes tanquam praeiudicaturus afferre Nec ego huius authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum auctoritatibus non quorumcumque proprijs sed vtrisque communibus testibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum ratione certet Min. Irenaeus Tertullian who had to doe with such refractory Heretiques as either denyed the purity of the Scriptures or traduced the perspicuity of them did both of them appeale to Tradition because they where challenged at that weapon by their aduersaries And by what Compasse did they saile first they proue that alone to be true and authenticall Tradition which was deliuered by Christ to the Apostles and by them to the Church by whome it was successiuely deriued to posterity Secondly they stand for no other Traditions but for the very same articles of faith which were contayned in the written worde Peruse Å¿ Irenae lib. 1. cap. 2.3 lib. 3. cap. 4. Tertul. lib. de praescrip haeret both their seuerall and specificall Enumerations of Traditions which the Church hath successiuely continued and you shall find them to iumpe in all respects with the Apostles Creede T is true they might haue proued them before competent Iudges by the authority of Scripture but as the Case stoode the authority of the Church was thought more preualent and the rather that they might shew the harmony thereof with the holy Scriptures Wherefore if you stand for such Traditions as they vrge it is fit your Bill should passe otherwise you must not take it ill if your Grace be stopt Iab Doe but t Pag. 105. read your learned Author Hierome Zanchius who will giue you a newer tune then that you haue piped vnto vs. That Author teacheth that diuerse vnwritten Traditions concerning Doctrine and Manners are in the Church which are not only profitable but in a manner necessary which we must reuerence and obey else we contemne the authority of the Church which is very displeasing vnto God Your Dr. Feild grauntes that Papists haue good reason to equall their Traditions to the written worde if they can proue any such vnwritten verities Ma. Zanchius meaneth not your Lenten fast your Ecclesiasticall orders of Acolothytes and Exorcists your Purgatory and Prayer for the dead which you will sooner proue to be dreames then Apostolicall Traditions but the very same which Tertullian and Irenaeus haue recorded for such Dr. Feildes If touching the poynt in question carries the sence of an impossible Supposition which we haue reason to suspect till your Purgatory shewe a better pedigree If you can proue this to be one of those vnwritten TraditioÌ„s whereof Zanchius speaketh then we will according to Dr. Feildes aduise not much dissent from your Conclusion till then we must craue pardon Iab The u Pag. 107. places which the Knight alleadgeth to proue the Churches Doctrine in this pointe to be a Sathanicall figment disgracefull vnto the great mercy of God and euacuating the Crosse of Christ are many but either so triuiall and knowne together with the Catholiques aunsweres or else so ridiculously applied wrung and wrested to your purpose that their very sound is able to breake a learned mans head Nick. Then had you neede of a good head-peice to beare off the weight of the blowe whose sound maketh so great a battery Yet if none but learned mens heads be in daunger of breaking your rough-hewen skonce neede feare the lesse Well seeing my Mr. is arrested for bloud-shed he meanes to aunswere the action vpon Bayle And for want of a better Atorney let me craue a Coppy of your Plea Iab Shall x Pag. 108. I make the Analisis of his Rhetoricall arguments They be three Enthymems I thinke The first The Gates of Hell shall not preuaile against the Church ergo there is no Purgatory The second The scule of Christ went downe to the nethermost hell ergo no Purgatory can be found The third Christ bound the strong man and tooke his Fortresse ergo Purgatory must vanish awaye Ma. The argument that once passeth your fingers is not dismissed without a torne fleece but seeing we must take it as you present it let vs heare your exceptions why it should vndergoe so triuiall and ridiculous a censure Iab Can you y Ibid. deny but many of your praedestinate and Elect are for robbing and stealing and other such crimes locked vp in London Gaoles What shall not Hell-gate preuaile against them shal the wal of a prison mew them vp Hath the soule of Christ gone downe into the nether-most Hell made no passage through Newgates Limbo where sometimes your Elect are kept Hath hee bound the strong man that hee should not harme and shall now a Hangman put them to death You perceiue I hope the vanitie of your Inferences Ma. Hee that lookes vpon them through your spectacles may read Absurdity indeed But that you may know the falsenesse of your Glasse by the mishapen Representation which it giueth to so well a proportioned face you must bee aduertised that the Knights argument was neyther so Wide-mouthed nor so Goggle-eyed as the picture which you haue drawne according to your own Idaea to resemble it He speaks of the state of th'elect in the after-world according to the intendement of the Scriptures alleaged you wrest it to their corrections in this life which haue their profitable vse His scope looks to the satisfying of Gods Iustice which Christ hath fully accomplished and not to those Chastisements which are as spurres to driue men to lay hold vpon that all-sufficient Sacrifice at which your Squint-eyed supposition doth glance Min. There are sundrie reasons why the Lord suffereth his Elect to vndergoe those bodily penalties First for the manifestation of his owne Iustice Secondly for their Correction humiliation and amendement that their Spirits may bee saued in the day of the Lord Thirdly for the Caution and Example of others Fourthly for the maintenance of publike tranquillitie and politique Societie
his owne Ma. This shift is fetch'd beyond the circumference of all probable Appararance Hee speakes in the e In Pref. lâ—b Salomonis present not in the preterperfect tense of the Church then being Legit ECCLESIA sed eos inter Canonicas Scripturas non recipit Yea by way of toleration he deliuers his minde permissiuely thus Legat Ecclesia ad edificationem plebis yet with this Limitation non ad authoritatem dogmatum Ecclesiasticorum confirmandam f De Ciuit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 38. Yea S. Augustine himselfe confesseth that one and the same man may write some thinges historica diligentia which though proceeding from himselfe may serue ad vbertatem cognitionis and other things ex inspiratione diuina which must be receiued ad authoritatem religionis Iab Those g Pag. 43. wordes come short of your summe to proue your Protestant distinction of the Canon of Manners and Canon of faith Ma. I grant Saint Hieromes sentence doth not deliuer these wordes in so many explicite sillables yet doth it necessarily imply as much in the implicite sence The Church readeth them for the edification of the people therefore they are in the Canon of Manners and serue to the bettering of knowledge The Church receiueth them not amongest the Canonicall Scriptures Therefore they are not in the Canon of faith as tending to th' authoritie of Religion Iab Euerie booke h Ibid. that may bee read for edification in the Church may not bee termed a rule of Manners What is iust with the rule of Manners is certainly good But actions aacording to these bookes wee speake of the Knight granteth may bee wicked For example to kill himselfe is a thing vnlawfull yet it is conformable to those actions that he saith are praysed in the Macchabees How then can they bee the Canon and Rule of Manners Min. Besides the Primarie and Diuine Canon of Manners properly so called I meane the Canonicall Scripture which is absolutely to bee receiued as wholy authenticall by and in it selfe there is also a Subordinate Ecclesiasticall rule which by vertue of Concordance is so farre to bee admitted for a rule as it is consonant to the first Thus the Macchabees from i So we call that awedge of Gold wherein there is some drosse the best and greatest part which is certainly good may deriuatiuely receiue the Denomination of the Canon of Manners albeit some little portion thereof be not leuelled and squared according to the first vnerrable squire This Deuiation though it exclude not the reading of the rest which may serue as a Subsidiarie promoter of edification yet can it not but debarre the whole from the Supremacie of k In Apocriphis etsi inuenitur aliqua veritas tamen propter multa falsa nulla est Canonica authoritas Aug. de Ciuit. Dei lib. 15. cap. 23. Canonicall esteeme Ma. Sir It is your courtesie thus to explane your selfe Yet vnder correction you doe not well to flie after the Doctors Lure It is sufficient for you that Saint l A Diuo Hieronimo extra Canonicos libros supputantur inter Apocripha locantur c. Ad Hieronimi limaÌ„ reducenda sunt tam verba Conciliorum quam Doctorum Caietan ad fin comment in l. hist Vet. Test Hieromes vndeniable testimonie hath explaned Saint Augustines Si Sobriè by which though the toleration of the Macchabees bee permitted yet the Canonization is vtterly m Maximè propter istos Martyres Machabaeos disanulled It belongeth to his taske to prooue them to bee of the Diuine Canon which hee shall more easily attempt then accomplish seeing Saint Augustine himselfe confesseth that the Ancient Iewes vtriusque tabulae custodes did not receiue them as they did the Law the Prophets and the Psalmes So that it will bee a point of no small difficultie without some Night-Ghosts reuelation to shew by what warrant or meanes the Church of Christ was after moued to adopt them Iab I could n Pag. 58. ioyne with Saint Augustine other Fathers no lesse ancient then hee canonizing the same bookes but his testimonie may suffice alone which bringeth with it the authoritie of the Church in his dayes Nick. Alas poore Doctor Bragge this is but a coppie of your countenance you will make but a mean liuing by singing Solus cum Solo I trowe Master Vicar wil bee able to vie fathers as fast as you Your Mastershippe may perhaps finde a Counter for the Post but you dare not for your eares bee in at the Payre Ma. Verily I thinke Clichtoueus was more then halfe a Prophet hee doth so visibly deschipher the guise of our Disputant as if hee were here present o Iudocus Clictoueus in Epist ad Franciscum Molinum Alij sunt saith hee qui non nisi suo credunt consilio quod semel asseruerunt volunt oraculo solidius vt haberi Alij autem authoritatula vna aut vnius scribentis dicto vt equus capistro retinentur caeteros aspernaentur qui ea de re aut dixerunt aut scripserunt Min. Sir it is faire play to till this gamester on by reseruing the best card till the last tricke The Ancient records of the Church shall be produced when they shall strike all dead for the present I thinke I shall sufficiently discharge my part if I make good the Knights argument out of S. Augustines ground to ratifie our conclusion Ma. Herein shall you not bestow your paines amisse Min. Then thus p Counters pa. 41 In Holy Canonicall Scripture there is no Diuine precept or permission to bee found that either to gaine Immortalitie or to escape any peril we may q Placuit vt hi qui per ferrum aut praecipitium sibi ipsis mortem inferunt nulla pro illis in oblatione commemoratio fiat Concil Bracaren 1. ca. 34 make away with our selues But Razias mentioned in the Macchabees is commended for a fact of this kind Ergo r His non adhibetur fides in quibus etiam contra fidem librorum Canonicorum quaedam leguntur Aug. de Ciuit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 38 they are not Canonicall Iab It was Å¿ Pag. 49. farre from Saint Augustines grauitie to read the Macchabees with so little Sobrietie as to thinke that Razias was praysed for killing himselfe t Pag. 51. writing against the Circumcellians hee doth often teach and largely prooue that Razias was not commendable for that fact which the Scripture did report not prayse Min. I will not presse you with tautologies neyther would I willingly bring Lyram ad Asinum vnlesse you were a better Musitian Lyraes record is extant that u Lyra in 2. Mach. cap. 14 the Scripture of that Booke which is receiued by the Church to be read for the Information of Manners doth not seeme to reprooue Razias but rather to commend him for killing himselfe c. Iab This is x Pag. 51. false and against the minde of Saint Augustine who
denies it expressely y Pag. 49 neyther is Lyraes Doctrine to the purpose Min. If you grant that Saint Augustine was one of the principall Doctors of the Church then listen a while to Ludouicus Viualdus z De veritate cōtritiouis fol. 52. De Razia saith he nobilissimo milite legimus in 2. lib. Mach c. quòd scipsum a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 animose ac magnifice in mortem dederit cuius mors commendatur ac landibus extollitur A DOCTORIBVS CATHOLICIS eo quod ob reuerentiam Dei atque ob salutem boni publici consummata fuerit We read of Razias c. Whose death is commended and highly extolled by the CATHOLIQVE DOCTORS Ma. Was this the opinion of Catholique Doctors in Viualdus his age then it seemes Saint Augustine was either not well vnderstood or not reputed in that ranke or that those Doctors haue since changed their mindes Howsoeuer the Minor viz. that Razias is commended for that fact hath the warrant of the Catholique Doctors as also of Ludouicus and Lyra maugre the spurning of your Wilde Asses b Pag. 62 Colt Therefore the conclusion that the Macchabees are not Canonicall must by vertue of Augustines ground bee returned with the c Pag. 46. Goose and Woodcock vnto your owne keeping Nick. Saint d Ibid. Augustines Eagle hath alreadie pick't out their eyes and put them to flight they beginne to droop and hang the wings so that they will haue little maw to shew their heads any more on this Coast Iab Is e Pag. 58 it not credible that some fathers who denie these bookes were ignorant of the Churches warrant rather then Saint Aug. so rash and presumptuous as to canonize them without it Ma. Lord what shift the Doctor makes to get loose his strugling makes mee remember the complaint of an f Laurent Valla de volup l. 1. elegant writer which may well beseeme Master Rachils eares Quid facias prauis ingenijs quae tergiuer santur manifestis rationibus repugnant nec se à veritate capi sinunt Min. Nay on my word hee begins to deale more plainly then I expected For whereas before he did set Saint Hierome and Sant Augustine at oddes making no more account of Caietans pearles then ordinary pebbles it is to be attributed to the chollericke fit wherewith he was ouertaken But now vpon better and more mature deliberation hee speakes by the book and tels vs that some Fathers deny these books Yet heerein he is not well aduised in that to free S Augustine from rashnesse and presumption hee sticks not to charge the rest with ignorance Ma. In very deede Doctor you are an vngratious child not worthy of your Mothers blessing Wil you make the Fathers of your Church ignorant in the warrant of your Church Shall they bee admitted to teach others in doubtfull controuersies of faith who are themselues to seeke in the Canon of Hagiographicall Scripture which is the ground of faith I cannot thinke that if the foure first generall Councels had receiued these books into the Canon they would haue beene eyther so ignorant or so rash and presumptuous as to haue disallowed them Iab Why g Pag. 50. should not the Bookes of Machabees be sacred though they prayse Razias for this fact as well as the Booke of Iudges where Sampson is praysed who did the like If this be Saint Augustines sentence which the Knight cites out h Ibid. of Lyra that hee did that fact by speciall instinct of the Holy Ghost who doth not see that your argument to proue the Machabees not to be Scripture is not worth a rush Min. Whether Saint Augustine were of this mind or no the Knight referred it to Lyraes report who there relates as he i Counters p. 45 sayth eyther the verie words or the receiued sence The Knight doth not peremptorily take vpon him to iustifie the words to haue proceeded from Augustines pen hee only presumed so farre vpon the Readers patience as to write out what Lyra there wrote without any distinction of Character touching the general opinion of the commendation of Razias his fact wherein as Lyra k Lyra in 2. Mach. cap. 14 speakes some thought Saint Augustine did beare a part Nick. Whether it were Augustines assertion or Lyraes relation it was sufficient to proue the Minor viz. That Razias his murther was there praysed But how will you answer the like of Sampson which Iabal bringeth out of the Booke of Iudges this maie seeme to inferre a secret addition to Augustine his ground Where hee sayth No Canonicall Booke doth commend or praise killing ones selfe Iabal by way of supposition annexeth this clause viz. without speciall instinct of the Holy Ghost Ma. Master Vicar you thinke Beggars haue no Lice VVho would haue looked for this from the Groome It is fit you should stop this gap Min. Had Razias killed himselfe by that speciall instinct then would not Saint Augustine haue ventured to censure this fact as worthie reproofe but as you say he proues against the Circumcellians that Razias was l Pag. 51. not commendable for that fact which the Scripture did report not praise Besides the text ascribes it to his own choice saying Eligens potius nobiliter mori that he chose rather to die m 2. Mach cap. 14. vers 42. nobly Thomas Aquinas also frees the spirit from that motion in this verdit Quidam saith hee seipsos n Secund. 2 Quaest 64. art 5. ad Quint. interfecerunt aestimantes se fortiter agere de quorum numero Razias fuit non tamen est vera fortitudo sed magis quaedam mollities animi Thus doth hee brand it as an aberration from true fortitude which defect is not incident to that spirit which leades into all truth Ma. You may spare your paines for anie further proofe the Doctor I thinke is of your minde in this It pleased him by occasion of that report which the Knight laid vpon Lyraes penne touching some mens construction of Augustines sence and Razias his fact to play the Questionist and to make a doubt of that wherein it seemes by his silence hee holds himselfe now satisfied Nick. Then cannot the Booke of Machabees bee sacred which both by euidence of the text and th' assent of the Catholique Doctors doth prayse Razias for that whch true fortitude doth disclaime and Canonicall Scripture disallow Iab Truly Saint Augustine o Pag. 52. doth so often clearly and peremptorily auouch the Charter of the Machabees which confirmeth Purgatorie to bee sacred that I wonder any man that hath read his workes wil vndertake to proue the contrarie When he makes the Catalogue of Canonicall Bookes doth not he ranke these with the rest Did hee not subscribe to the Councell of Carthage where those Bookes were canonized Ma. This is that which the Knight did wisely foresee and cautelously labour to preuent Hee feared least his aduersarie might be ouer-swayed
by mistaking of the word Canonicall which is sometimes taken largely to signfie aswel the Bookes that might concerne the Rule of Manners as those which serue for the foundation of the doctrine of Faith in which sence your Father and Councell are to be vnderstood whereas the same word in the strict and proper signification doth only comprehend the Bookes which agree with the Canon of the Hebrewes according to the generall consent of the Ancient Fathers of all Churches before the dayes of Saint Augustine To this end hee sent no worse p Letter to T.H. pag. 62. Messenger to cleare this doubt then a person eminent both by name and place I meane that famous Cardinall Cajetan Ne turberis Nouitie saith he Si alicubi reperias libros istos inter Canonicos supputari Cum hac distinctione poteris discernere dicta Augustini scripta in Concilio Prouinciali Carthaginensi Hee tels you that they are thus to be vnderstood as also that none but Nouices in the writing of the Ancient Fathers will trouble themselues by making any question in so apparaÌ„t a truth Nick. Iabal hath well requited him for his paines I trow he hath sent the Cardinall away with a flea in his eare If Caietan had beene Pope hee would haue beene twice aduised before he had so rudely reiected his Oracles My fellow Iack Footeman would haue no great Maw to carry a Message to such a currish Swaine from whom hee expects no better entertainment Min. Caietan I wis had more wit in his little finger then Iabal in his whole body Beati Pacifici was his aime Should such hot-spurres as our Nouice haue beene made Arbitrators there would haue beene such a broyle amongst the Fathers as would not be easily reconciled For if you take away this fauourable most probable distinction you should soone see a field pitch'd betweene q Vide Admon praefix Concord Bibliorum per haered Wecheli Cyril Cyprian Origen r Si quid extra haec inuenitur inter adulterinos libros numerandum est Greg. Nazian Nazian zene Å¿ Anthonin Summ. maior Parâ— 3. tit 18. cap. 6. § 2. Hierome t Alij libri sunt qui non Canonici sed Ecclesiastici a maioribus appellati sunt eiusdem ordinis Tobiae Iudith et Machabaeorum libri Ruffi in Symbol fol. 575. Ruffinus Epiphanius u Sunt Canonici veteris testamenti libri viginti duo lâ—teris baebraicis numero parâ—s Aâ—ban ex Synopsi Athanasius Eusebius and Gregory on th' one side discarding them and Augustine the Councell of Carthage Trent on th' other part defending them When this pitch'd battel should haue beene fought the Romanists might haue sought our valiant Sanga vnder the Trundle-bedde till the hurly burly had beene at at end vnlesse they had pluckt him out by the heeles no perswasion would haue drawne him to shew his face they are all so peremptory and plaine against the Canonizing of these Apogriphall bookes This was not vnknowne to the Cardinal who was thereby induced to thinke that S. Augustine tooke the word Canonicall in the larger sence as comprehending the Ecclesiasticall writings within the verge thereof Ma. Had it beene an error an the Iewes not to haue receiued these bookes as they did the Law and the Prophets I cannot thinke but that Christ or his Apostles would surely haue reproued so notable a crime seeing they were not meale-mouthed in the reprehension of lesser faults And whereas we receiue this maine benefit by the Apostacy of the Iewes that therby the world seeing them enemies vnto the Messias cannot but giue the greater credence to the bookes of th' old Testament without suspect of partiality which otherwise might haue beene doubted the adopting of these other Apocriphall into the Canon were as much as in vs lieth to vilifie th' authority of their authentique records who may not improbably be thought to haue taken in those that were adulterine as well as to haue degraded those that are found to haue beene diuine Min. If all other reasons were mute me thinkes the Author Matter and Manner of the history might well make an ingenuous person very sparing in the defence The Author if wee may credit the x Vide Zanch. de diuin attrib lib. 4. ca. 4. enlarging Epitomizer of these bookes is y 2. Mac. 2.23 Iason Cirenaeus a z Spiritu sancto inspirati loquuti sunt sancti Dei homines 2. Pet. cap. 1. v. 21. heathen man for-sooth a fit Secretarie for the Court of heauen It seemes pen-men were then as scanty as sometimes a 1. Sam. c. 13. v. 19. Smiths in Palestine This must needs bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which requireth so much b 2. Mac. 2. v. 26. watching sweating and pains in the refining Calamus Scribae velociter scribentis would haue eased all this toyle which is not to bee feared where the Omniscient spirit is the Dictator As touching the matter it is wouen in a webbe of such palpable contradictions that a man who regardeth his credit would be sorry at his heart to bee taken tripping in such contrary tales One while c 1. Mach. c. 6. v. 16. Antiochus died for griefe in Babilon Another while hee was slaine in the Temple of d 2. Mac. c. 1. v. 13. Nanea where his head was cut off And yet is not Antiochus out of his paine As if he had as many liues as a Cat you shal see him stalke once more vpon this historicall Stage and then at last fall downe and dye with a most noysome stinking smell consumed with e 2. Mach. c. 9. v. 9. Ducit ad inferos â— educit wormes Indeede I must needs say he is very modest in the deliuery He writes not f Math. 7. v. 29. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as one who had the custody of the mint to warrant the mettle whereunto he had put his stampe but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pleasure and recreation of the reader Had he had the warrant of the spirit hee would haue spared the labour of begging fauor and suing out a pardon for which hee is faine to crowch to the Readers gentlenesse Ma. Then had the holy Father S. Augustin good cause to say that they are receiued profitably if they bee read Soberly For if they should bee read with a precipitate opinion as Canonicall Scriptures in the strict sence the many leakes which are transparant in them would goe very neere to sinke th' authority of the rest Iab It appeareth by that testimony against the Epistle of Gaudentius that the Christians gaue that authority to those h Pag. 55. bookes which the Iewes did not grant vnto them that the Church did set them vp in the throne from which the Synagogue had kept them which was the Imperiall throne of sacred Authority Otherwise S. Augustins opposition The Iews did not but The Church doth were vaine Ma. The
saith Wee must beleeue that for some light faults there is a purgatorie fire before the day of Iudgement because the truth doth say If any shall vtter Blasphemie against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiuen in this World nor in the world to come In which saying we are giuen to vnderstand that some sinnes may bee forgiuen in this world and some in the next for what is denied of one it is cleare that consequently it is granted of the other Thus didst thou write blessed Saint a thousand yeares agoe euen when thy heart was fullest of comfort for the conuersion of our Country It would not a little haue allayed thy ioy hadst thou foreseene that Ma. Such idle Rhetoricians such seditious Iesuites such superstitious Priests such pompous successors such trayterous and bloudy Popinians should haue corrupted that faith and made that Sea so infamous amongst the most remote nations which both by heart and hand thou tookest so great paines to promote This would haue allaid his ioy indeed Min. As for your fiue or sixe auncient Doctors you shall haue your answere both in weight and tale In the meane while for this of Gregory if it bee his owne it may more then euidently appeare vnto your second suruey of these his Dialogues that hee was by certaine idle apparitions and phantasticall Ghosts som what too easily induced if not seduced to fauor and further this opinion Yet if you will bee pleased to let Gregory answere Gregory listen what he h Greg in 7. c. Iob. lib. 8. c. 8. elsewhere speaketh Cum humani casus tempore siue sanctus siue malignus spiritus egredientem animum claustra carnis acceperit in aeternum secum sine vlla permutatione retinebit vt nec exaltata ad supplicium proruat nec mer sa aeternis supplicijs vltra ad remedium ereptionis ascendat To the same purpose is Gregory alleaged by i Nilus lib. de Purg. Nilus auerring that the time after this life is for punition not for purgation In hac vita tantùm saith S. k Serm. 66. Augustine poenitentiae patet libertas post mortem nulla correction is licentia Hoc tempus est poenitentiae illud iudicij saith S. l In Serm de Euch. in Eucaen Chrysostome hoc agonum illud coronarum hoc laboris illud relaxationis The same father m Hom de Lazar. further tells vs Dum hic fuerimus spes habemus praeclaras simulac vero discesserimus non est postea in nobis situm poenitere neque commissa diluere Here we haue hope but when we are once deceased it is neither in our power to repent nor to make satisfaction for those things which we haue done Iab What thinke you of that Father whom the Knight named a n Pag. 67. marble pillar that euer-admired Augustine Thus he writeth vpon our place of Scripture It could not be truly said of some men that their sinnes should not be forgiuen in this world nor in the world to come vnlesse there should be some men who though they are not pardoned in this world yet they should bee pardoned in the world to come Ma. This the Knight remooued with a writ vnder the hand of Viues who auerreth that these words are wanting in some ancient copies So that iust suspition may not improbably deeme them to haue been inserted by a second hand Iab Yet o Pag. 68.69 Viues addeth Tamen stilus non abhorret ab Augustiniano The stile dissenteth not from S. Augustines Yea further he saith that either in other copies of Saint Augustine the former wordes are found or taken from some other worke of this Father they were heere inserted Ma. Hee is a very simple Impostour that cannot iumpe with S. Augustines stile for a sentence or two But is not heere olde handy pandy when sentences shall be tossed from one place to another without the Authors aduise This inserting of sentences in wrong places raiseth a different sence and puts all out of ioynt So that the Knight was not ill aduised to say that it were ill with the Church if her saith were pinned p Let. to T.H. pag. 7â— on S. Augustines sleeue not that hee misdoubted that holy fathers sincerity but because he was too well acquainted with these Ioyners interlacing subtilty And haue we not then great reason to stand to the sole trial of the Scriptures or is it possible these brabbles should haue an ende as long as such authorities are vrged which are elsewhere contradicted by th' authors themselues Min. If we grant that this authority hath the right stampe of S. Augustines penne yet will it not affoord fuell for the kindling much lesse the maintaining of Purgatory fire He tells vs as you haue often heard that the Catholique faith knew but q Aug. in lib. 5 â—ypognost two receptacles of soules departed The kingdome of Heauen and Hell As for any third place hee saith penitus ignoramus we know none neither find wee any such mentioned in the holy Scriptures And in his eighteenth Sermon De verbis Apostoli Duae habitationes sunt vna in igne aeterno altera in regno aeterno So that howsoeuer there was in his daies some wauering conceit yet was not the doctrine of Purgatory held then as a matter of Faith And to that purpose hee r Euchirid c. 69 speaketh saying It is not incredâ—ble that such a thing should chance after this life and whether it bee so or no it may be questioned and againe Å¿ De ciuit Dei lib. 21. cap. 26. non redarguo quia forsan verum est I do not denye it because perhaps it is true Thus haue you purchased a second forsitan to accompany that which was freely giuen you by Viues his pen. As for other places where it is not expressed it is necessarily to be vnderstood for had he deliuered his mind elsewhere positiuely and apodectically heerein I cannot see what should mooue him heere to shake his owne foundation by making others to doubt of that whereof himselfe was certainely assured The best men in which number S. Bernard may be reckoned haue had through the corruption of time their pardonable errours Sometimes they were led with the blazing starre of coniecture and not alwaies with the day-starre of truth So that we haue no warrant further to follow them though they were Angels then the guidance of Gods word Iab t Pag. 70. What can be sacred and certaine amongst Christians if an vnlearned Knight may be permitted to deride that which the most famous Diuines and Fathers of former ages do without the contradiction of any peremptorily deliuer as an vndoubted verity Nick. Lord how the Noddy rumbles in Iabals stomacke how faine would hee disgorge it on the bosome of the Fathers of whom neuer man spake with greater respect then my master As for those that are of our Doctors ranke I must needs say hee casts the Noddy amongst them without a
how she stareth panteth strugleth and gaspeth as vnwilling to leaue the world when this pillow is pluck'd from vnder her head she wil be soone out of her paine Good Doctor speake not so lowd lest yo call her againe into a second and more fierce agony Iab His first assault is by examples A q Pag. 75.76 Kentish Gentlemā saith he not purposing to make his heire a great Clark saith thus My eldest Sonne shall neyther bee Student in Oxford nor Cambridge were not hee an excellent Artist that should thence inferre Ergo some of his other Sonnes shall goe to Cambridge Or if he should say My Sonne shall neyther bee Schollar in Eaton nor Fellow of Kings Colledge were not hee out of his wits that should hence conclude Ergo a man may be Fellow of Kings Colledge r Being against the foundation that was neuer Schollar of Eaton Ma. Amongest millions of stones and faces t is impossible to finde two so a like that there shall bee no difference Similitudes are not of equall size in euerie part t is sufficient if they agree in the maine scope What can bee more pregnant to shew the follie of your Deduction The two English Vniuersities answere the two Worlds the Gentlemans speech is only touching his eldest Sonne as our Sauiours assertion touching one kind of sinners the Inference concerning his other sonnes is against art your Consequence touching other Sinners being no part of Christs scope cannot free it selfe from vnmannerly intrusion Iab He shewes ſ Pag 79. himselfe such an excellent Artist that he brings examples that make against his purpose For the Kentish Gentlemans speech that his eldest Sonne shall not be Student in Oxford or Cambridge nor Scholler in Eaton nor Fellow of Kings Colledge though it doe not import that eyther his second or third or fourth Son shal be Student in Cambridge or Fellow of Kings Colledge yet this doth follow that some youths may and vse to be students in Cambridge some men Fellowes of Kings Colledge else it were foolish to make that speciall exception against his first Sonne which is generall to all other mens children Ma. See how your wit runnes a wooll-gathering while you seeke to contradict the Knight you giue euidence against your selfe The immediate question betweene the Knight and his Aduersarie in this place was this Whether the wordes of our Sauiour in this Scripture did necessarily imply forgiuenesse in the World to come touching sinnes of a lesser growth and degree You answere to a speech of like nature that it doth not import that his second or third sonne c. shall bee Student in Cambridge which is all one as if you should say Our Sauiours speech doth not determine that Sinners of another nature shall be forgiuen in the world to come which is as much as we craue Iab Yet this seemes to follow That some youths may and vse to bee Students in Cambridge c. else it were foolish to make speciall exception against his first Sonne Ma. Though it bee true that there are Students there yet it doth not necessarily follow from the Gentlemans speech for hee might send his sonne to bee a Student in Queenborrow Castle or any other place where the Artes were neuer read before Indeed if there were no such place as Cambridge then his speech might haue seemed absurde So likewise it followes from our Sauiours speech that there is a world to come but that other sinnes not formerly remitted shall bee there forgiuen you confesse it doth not import Iab Should this Gentleman say t Ibid. My eldest Sonne shal not be an Vniuersitie Schollar neyther in Oxford nor in Queenborough Castle were not his speech absurde Why I pray you but because Queenborough is no Vniuersitie Nick. You meane when my Master is away but I can tell you when he is there you would sweare it is a little Vniuersitie I may speake it to my credit I haue often wished those bookish Disputants a good way off their arguing hath made vs wait so long for our dinner And when they are risen it is one bodies worke to runne vp and downe with Bookes to set them agreed Ma. T is well done Nick to stand pro aris focis Had we a good Towne-stocke thou shouldest haue a pension for thy good spoake Min. Nay listen a while to the Doctor who was neyther an Vniuersitie Scholler in Oxford Cambridge nor Queenborrough Castle how doth hee conclude Were not the speech sayth hee absurde seeing Queenborrough Castle is no Vniuersitie as if there were no difference betweene a Horse-Mill and a Mill-Horse betweene a specificall difference crossely applied and an accidentall attribute figuratiuely continued The absurditie of your speech sauours of the Mint where it was coyned yea it hath little or no agreement with the phrase in hand For there is a necessarie succeeding dependance betweene this world and the next which is not to bee found betweene Oxford and Queenborrough Castle wherfore the Negatiue is most improper in th' one which is tollerable and significant in the other Yet if anie man should so speak we are probably to vnderstand that he had no intention to make his sonne an Academick yea scarce a Countrie Schollar seeing Queenborrough is no place of note destinated for that purpose So when our Sauiour sayth It shall neyther bee forgiuen in this world nor in the world to come which is not found capable by the Scriptures prerogatiue of any such effect it is plaine his intent is that it shall not be forgiuen at all neyther doth it imply that other Sinners are there to be forgiuen as you would wrest the sence contrarie to your former acknowledgement Iab Except there bee u Pag. 77 some remission of sinnes in the World to come the speech of Christ should be sencelesse and absurde against one sinne that it shall be remitted neyther in this world nor in the next except some sinnes may be remitted in the world to come wherefore to make the speech of Christ discreet and wise wee must needes grant that some sinnes are pardoned in the world to come Nick. Itque reditque viam toties This is right Sellengers round forward and backward A great Horse that could trot the Ring so well were worth much monie The speech indeede cannot but bee discreete and wise if it come once to your making Min. Hee paceth foot by foot after x De Purgatorio cap. 13 Lensaeus his wordes are these Wee say that Christ did not vse this distribution lightly ridiculously or without weightie reason And wee say that hee speakes figuratiuely grauely and pathetically y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aggrauating the sinne by th'eternitie of remedilesse punishment excluding it from the present remission which is incident to other sinnes and debarring the person so obnoxious from the hope of future joy which other sinners after their timely repentance are to receiue It is no vnusuall thing in the Holy Scriptures to
vse May not such a Pilot as Dr. Iabal steere their vessells vpon the rockes and sandes how shall they know that this or that is the sence or Tradition of the Catholique church I see no remedy for them but to fly to Socrates Zozomen Eusebius Theodoret and the other Antiquaries for releife and then they must be well skilled in the tongues Nick. Yf there should be a grammar schoole erected for the feminine gender it would be a braue world Iabal would sue for the Vsher-shipp O how featly would he discipline their Albes There would be Tollo tollis sustuli The Girles will neuer consent to so harsh a motion they had rather speake true english at home then make false latin at Schoole vnder such an yll-faced Tutor Iab Had not m Pag. 58. Luther the first fruites of the protestants spirit Yet he erred most grossely that euen Zuinglius his fellow-witnes against the Pope doth giue this testimony against him Thou Luther doest corrupt the worde of God thou art seene to be a manifest corrupter of the holy Scriptures If he be so corrupt what translation or spirit of your church may your Ladies trust Ma. These are not the first fruites of your witlesse malice neither was Luther the first Coyner of our protestant faith which doth carry the right stampe of the most auncient sacred and primitiue truth Let the Scripture be the arbitrator of his writings then will your slaunder be soone silenced and supprest with shame As he was a man he might be subiect to some particular error which if Zuinglius reproued by warrant of the Scriptures it proceeded from his loue to the truth not out of hatred to his person And haue there not bene worse broyles among your scholasticall Diuines Haue not the positiue Constitutions of former Councells bene repealed by those that succeded Haue not the Popes Decrees bene censured and discarded by their successors Where was your Catholique spirit all that while It is in vaine to looke for a n Foelix qui minimis vrgetur heauen vppon earth Shall the whole fabrick be puld downe because a Wyndowe or a Chimney or a Tyle is misplaced He is a good Architect that leaues nothing to mend Zuinglius his reproofe may informe you that our Church is more deuoted to the Scriptures verity then to the most prime mans authority Iab This is o Pag. 98. 99. the felicity of our Catholike Ladies that by the worde of the Church they know certainlie which is the letter of the scripture Which your Ladyes like stray-sheepe must seeke on the topp of craggy mountaines as the Knight tearmeth the Hebrew language not without eminent daunger of an eternall downefall Nick. Here is a doe with the Ladies falling Yf you were their Gentleman Vsher should they not haue a stout supporter Stand to your tackling good Doctor Iab There is such a Ibid. confusion in your Church that as Irenaeus noted of auncient Heretikes one shall scarce find two that will spell the same sence out of the same wordes Ma. Why hath God giuen such diuersity of guiftes to his Church but that there should be q Quid in diuinis eloquiis largius vberius potuit diuinitus prouideri quam vt eâ—dem verba pluribus inte ligantur modu Aug. de Doct. Chris lib. 3. variety of applications Is not the Kings Daughter in fimbrijs aureis circumamicta r Psal 45.14 varietatibus Clad in a vesture wrought about with diuerse colours If the stuffe be the same t is no great matter though the lace and embrodery be not laid in all alike What contradictions can can you specify in their expositions Iab These foure Å¿ Pag. 99. wordes Hoc est corpus meum contayning not aboue fourteene letters you haue deuised aboue fower times fortie expositions so different as the Authors of the one damne the Fauorers of the other to Hell Ma. A fitt receptacle for all such loud lyars who care not what Crudityes they vomit vppon the bosome of the most eminent and innocent persons without either feare or shame Min. They that are conuersant in the writings of your Catholique Authors know that there is allmost as much difference among them about the three letters of this one sillable Hoc as is amongst the Protestants in the whole sentence Ma. If Mercury himselfe were amongst them with his rodd of truce all his Rhetorique would hardly teach them their t Quid dem quid non dem renuis tu quod iubet alter Concordes Iabal forgets how Leo the second condemned Pope u In Epist ad Imperat. ad fin 6. Synod Honorius for an Heretique Had Zuinglius serued Luthers bookes as Pope x Platina in Sabin Senens lib. 4. pag. 23. Sabinian did the workes of Gregorie his predecessor wee should haue an outcry against fiery spirits then he might more tolerably haue demaunded What shal your poore Ladies do in this combate Iab They may y Pag. 99. rashly perswade themselues that this or that exposition is the best but certaine of any thing they can neuer bee till they admit the Catholike Ladies A.B.C. the Churches authoritie learning of her the sence of whom they tooke the text Nick. When the men of Thessalonica z Act. 17.11 tried the Apostles Doctrine whether it were true or no did they send a Legate to learne the judgement of the Church of Rome Vnto whom did they repaire but vnto a Scrutabantur Scripturas him that had the wordes of life Our Ladies are not so raw in the Scriptures but that if there were such difference amongst our Ministers as you suppose they can take that which doth best agree with the Analogie of Faith and the Rule of Charitie The spirit of God is not so fixed to the Doctors chaire but that it is most free to make euen them of the lowest forme b Super Senes intellexi quia mandata tua quaesiui Psa 119 v. 100. wise vnto saluation Ma. I haue heard a worthie speech of Panormitan often alleaged to this purpose that there is more credit to be giuen to one c Plus credendum viro Laico afferenti Scripturas c. Laick that bringeth Scripture then to a generall Councell representing the vniuersall Church if it haue not the warrant of the word It is not long time since I read how Paphnutius by this meanes preuailed against a whole Synode and stopped the passage of the warrantlesse superstition of single life And not without great reason For if antiquitie be to bee respected or consent to be regarded the Prophets and Apostles haue the superioririe in both Min. Whereas he complaines of confusion and danger of misinterpretation for the magnifying of Tradition he forgets the censure of d Lib. 3. Cap. 2 Irenaeus vpon the prime Heretiques for the same quarrell e Difficilis paucisque conueniens eruditis Aug. aduers Iulian. l. 5. c. 1 Iulian the Pelagian thought by
this lesson of S. Bernard not to speak in the Congregation So that your dumbe Virgine doing these wonders neither in the name of Iesus nor by prayer is no lesse then a forestaller of diuine glory which the Lord hath protested hee will not giue to k Psalm 42.8 grauen Images And what are the Doctrines which your Hall wonders serue to confirme are they not Culinarian Theorems which they striue to support Forsooth they are the buttresses of Purgatory Transubstantiation Worshipping of Images Prayer for the dead and of that diuine honour which is sacrilegiously ascribed to the Virgin Mary Say we not truelie that these are the doctrines of Diuels Can it stand with common sence to giue that adoration to carued images which the most glorious Angells refused or rather is it not most apparant that their miracles are the signes of the Antichristian beast Nick. That which is most worth the noting is this that all your Ladies prodigies are wrought in angulo where but few and those selected are assembled Seldome shall you read that their spirits spake or that their Images came downe l Non qui mira sed qui male agit odit lucem loan 3.30 by day S. m Greg. dial lil 1. ca. 4. Equitius was guelded by an Angell in his sleepe The Maid that crusht the Deuill betweene her teeth in the Lettice had no other witnesse in her mouth besides her tongue vnlesse happilie shee had a little Embrio in her wombe I doe not well remember whether Ignatius Layola did in the daie or in the night open the obstructions of the wench that was troubled with the stone He was a Souldier and therefore perhaps durst doe more then ordinarie in the day This I am sure of I could neuer hear yet by any credible report what tune it was which S. n Fasciculus temporum de anno 754. Gingoffs wife did sing with her nether-lippes whether voluntary Salengers round or Hunts-vp Iabal is a good Musitian his nose would haue beene as good as a Recorder to haue borne a part and then his tongue would haue made a more certaine relation then the Carmelite doth Ma. A man would hardly beleeue that there were in the Catholique towne of Hall so many Infidels as Lipsius by his multiplicitie of miracles would make the world beleeue Were not the greatest part vnbeleeuers those many miracles would bee altogether superfluous Wherefore seeing your Ladies miracles are defectiue in all and euery of these conditions which giue essence to a true miracle their motto may be this Dea picta Miracula ficta So that we may say vnto you as S. o Aug. cont Faustum lib. 13. Augustine spake vnto the Manichyes Miracula non facitis quae si faceretis tamen ipsain vobis caueremus And no maruell for either the Sacrist which is the veriest knaue you can get plaies his part in the Vestry or else some beggarlie fellow iumbles vnder the Eaues of the Church Iab In what p Pag. 132. other histories are they found if they want in Lipsius Min. In the histories of Moses the Prophets the fower Euangelists and the Acts of the Apostles Wee q Pet. 1.19 haue a most sure word to the which you shall doe well to take heede This word saith the r Heb. 2. â— 4 Apostle at the first began to bee spoken by the Lord and was confirmed vnto vs by them that heard him God also bearing them witnesse hoth with signes and wonders and with diuers miracles and gifts of the holy Ghost So much of Christs miracles and doctrine is written in the holy Scriptures that wee Å¿ Iohn 20.31 might beleeue that Iesus is the true Christ the sonne of God and that beleeuing in him wee might haue eternall life What can wee desire more What need is there of Goody Hals miracles doth the spirit of God purposely omit many of our Sauiours miracles and may wee plead the necessity of Hals wonders Are not those that are written sufficient or rather are not yours superfluous If your Lipsianists may be beleeued the dead Image of the Mother hath doubled the miracles of her liuing Sonne Iab Lipsius doth t Pag. 132.133 protest that hee read the Gests and Records out of which he chose those which he iudged most worthy of the print Wil not al men saith he beleeue these things done in the sight of many confirmed by sworn witnesses c. If any man after such inquiry be not moued to beleeue such credible histories I may apply that vnto him of Homer Thou hast eares to heare that wants both wit and shame Nick. Homers verse had I beene his translator should rather haue run thus The Author that such lies did write beleeue me was too blame For why the world did see his pen did want both truth and shame Ma. Did your Authour choose such as hee iudged most worthy of the print It seemes then hee thought some vnworthy It had beene more for his reputation if he had thought so of all Nick. Oh not of all Lipsius protests that some were true Ma. I might answer with a non sequitur What grounds hath hee for his protestation Forsooth he read the Gests and Records and so haue I Gesta Romanorum Their authority is much alike If there were any difference the later were in print whereas Lipsius scraped his out of scribled and moth-eaten Coppies What hath Lipsius to say for his Hall and Sichem wonders which the followers of Antichrist may not alleadge more probably in the defence of the stratagems of their Lord which by all likelihood are to be more conspicuous and yet wee are forewarned not to beleeue them Min. How much those Saint-canonizing Records are to be suspected we may iudge by the caution that Gregory giues vs in his Decretals u Greg. 9. lib. 3 Decret 1. de Reliquijs et venerati me sanctorum cap. 1. Audiuimus saith he quod quidam intervos diabolica fraude decepti hominem quendam in potatione et ebrietate occisum quasi sanctum more Infidelium venerantur And againe x Ibid. cap. 2. Cum ex eo quod quidam sanctorum reliquias exponunt venales veleas passim ostendunt christianae religioni detractum sit saepius Ne in posterum detrahatur presenti decreto statuimus vt antiquae reliquiae amodo extra capsam nullatenus ostendantur c. And hee concludeth Praelati non admittant eos The Prelates may not suffer those that come to their Churches to worship to be deceiued with the variety of figments or false relations as it is accustomed to bee done in most places for gaines sake Now if Hall and Sichem be within the Site of that continent which Gregory taxeth there is no doubt but they who were to reape the profit by the concourse of Contributors would set Lipsius pen in a large field where he might haue sea-roome enough to hoyse vp all the sailes that his wit could beare They would
least mite thrown in his Treasurie as well accepted as the greatest talent of the most mightie Potentate Why then should the Pope be so partiall as to neglect the reliefe of the poorer sort by passing licence to the ambitious Cardinall for the pulling downe of lesser Houses founded with as great Charitie to make princely walls for his pride How will hee escape the dreadfull execrations of the first Founders A thousand Iabalites will not bayle him As for Henrie the eight he is farre more excusable because he followed the president of the Popes Legate whome he thought hee might boldly imitate And when the lands came to the spoyle your owne Catholiques had not the least share Nâ—ck Hee that shall reade the Records of those times shall finde the villanies of the Monastiques so transcendent that no religious King could with a safe conscience any longer tolerate them When you shall call to minde how b 6000. many childrens heads Gregorie saw at the drawing of a fish-pond you will thinke he hath small reason to boast of their pietie feare of God and contempt of the world And were your religious persons thus tainted then must the secular needs be worse infected When their purse would purchase their pardon with a Quodlibet they that had the fairest meanes were likely to harbour the foulest sinnes Ma. And as for humilitie which was the second branch of his maimed comparison as oft as he thinks of Augustines pride mee thinkes hee should turne his face aside when he names it Iab The c Pag. 189. chiefe reason that made this blessed Saint to iarre with the British Bishops was their want of Christian charitie towards the English not yeelding to preach Christ and Christianitie vnto them Ma. T is strange he should be so inconsiderate as to fall out with them before he heard them speake Besides he could not but heare how many worthie Britaines had beene treacherously slaine by Hengystus and his d Fabian part 1. cap. 89. adherents both vpon Ambry or Salisburie Plaine and at a banquet where they expected a better welcome So that his Fatherhood should first haue procured hostages for their safetie and then if they had gainsaied his religious motion they had beene more liable to his cholericke censure That for which his ambition is principally noted is the stately Prologue of his greeting in his surly and Pseudo episcopall cariage towards his poore brethren who had beene his Seniors in this Seignorie The countenance is a token of the heart Iab I confesse e Pag. 190. it is so yet but an vncertaine and fallible token whereupon to frame a resolute and determinate iudgement in the condemnation of any is against Christs expresse Commandement Doe not iudge according to the face Ma. S. Iames explanes our Sauiours meaning when he admonisheth vs not to reiect the f Saepe sub sordido palliolo latitat sapientia poore Saint for the meannesse of his habit nor to respect the proud deuill for the richnesse of his vesture Our Sauiours prohibition extendeth it selfe to worldly additaments and outward hypocriticall semblances it excludes not the censure of the tree by the fruit by which he saies wee shall know them I confesse vice doth oft times beare the counterfet of vertue but neuer did I see yet Christian humilitie so base minded as to stoope to the imitation of pride They are the agents of g Papa nemini mortalium reuerentiam facit assurgendo aut caput inclinando seu detegendo Antichrist that are pontificall in their carriage and loftie in their lookes The Disciples of Christ doe learne of him to bee humble and meeke Though it be rashnesse to iudge of any mans finall estate before the time of our Lord come yet it is a point of Christian wisdome to h Libritui totum te nobis exhibent Aug. in Epist 9. discerne betweene a thistle and an oliue branch Iab How oft i Pag. 190. do godly and discreet Superiours shew anger state grauitie and seueritie in their countenance when their harts are full of humilitie compassion and meeknes Ma. I perceiue you are better acquainted with State policie then Church pietie There may bee iust occasions for Magistrates to be sometimes sharper in words and more austere in their countenance then willingly they would but if by State you vnderstand disdainfull insolencie it is in no hand to be suffered especially in those that should be parternes to the flocke of Christ Christianitie doth alwaies presuppose common ciuilitie Had k Minimus Apostolorum S. Paul beene in Augustines roome would he haue sate as if he had beene nailed to his chaire would hee not rather haue prostrated himselfe before them beseeching them as their seruant in Christ Iesus to bee reconciled Vnlesse you shut your eies you may easily iudge of the domineering spirit of this new Delegate Min. Either you must condemne the l Discite a me quia mitis sum humilis corde ground of holy Scripture vpon which that worthie and much reuerenced Heremite to whom they repaired for counsaile did build his direction or his iudgement in the m Si homo Dei est sequimini illum Si aduentantibus assâ—rgat seruus Dei est inference and application wherein hee did prophetically diuine of the future euent Otherwise your Augustine cannot shake of the generally receiued opinion of arrogancie Nick. Gregorie being wise discouered the hautinesse of his disposition well enough as appeareth by his * Lib. 9. Epist 58 Epistle sent vnto him and therefore he tooke a safe course for beeing troubled with him at Rome to send him into these remote parts where hee might domineere alone without check-mate It would make you smile to read how hee encouraged him in his voyage when as vpon his returne hee would haue faine staied at home Min. Were there no other demonstration of his pride but the crossing of his Masters charge that alone were sufficient So that he might set vp his own Ceremonies he did not much set by Gregories aduertisement Iab Did not n Pag. 184. Gregorie by his Delegate plant the present Romane faith that wee now professe I thinke you say it more with your tongue then with your heart Min. Gregorie had formerly written to him that the same Ceremonies were not necessarily to bee exacted in all Churches and hee giues him his reason Non o Bede lib. 1. cap. 27. pro locis res sed pro bonis rebus loca amanda sunt Notwithstanding he abateth not one graine of his violence in changing the obseruation of their Easter-tide Ma. Is not Gregories doctrine sutable to that which is now holden by the Romanists Did not hee allow of Images the Supremacie and p Necessarium est trepidare de merito religiosum est gaudere de dono Leo. merit of good workes which they so superstitiously maintaine If not then it seemes Augustine went beyond the limits of his commission indeed