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scripture_n holy_a tradition_n unwritten_a 2,627 5 12.0852 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A01094 Foure sermons, lately preached, by Martin Fotherby Doctor in Diuinity, and chaplain vnto the Kings Maiestie. The first at Cambridge, at the Masters Commencement. Iuly 7. anno 1607. The second at Canterbury, at the Lord Archbishops visitation. Septemb. 14. anno 1607. The third at Paules Crosse, vpon the day of our deliuerance from the gun-powder treason. Nouemb. 5. anno 1607. The fourth at the court, before the Kings Maiestie. Nouemb. 15. anno 1607. Whereunto is added, an answere vnto certaine obiections of one vnresolued, as concerning the vse of the Crosse in baptisme: written by him in anno 1604. and now commanded to be published by authoritie Fotherby, Martin, 1549 or 50-1620. 1608 (1608) STC 11206; ESTC S102529 138,851 236

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our_o own_o be_v we_o never_o so_o ignorant_a it_o must_v be_v none_o other_o man_n be_v he_o never_o so_o learned_a and_o it_o must_v be_v our_o own_o not_o by_o ordinary_a course_n of_o read_v attain_v either_o from_o old_a or_o new_a writer_n neither_o yet_o by_o often_o iteration_n decoct_v but_o in_o a_o sort_n after_o the_o anabaptistical_n manner_n both_o sudden_o infuse_v and_o effuse_a this_o be_v with_o those_o man_n that_o noble_a and_o that_o worthy_a kind_n of_o preach_v which_o must_v in_o credit_n and_o authority_n equal_a the_o holy_a scripture_n in_o power_n and_o perspicuity_n far_o excel_v they_o a_o very_a blind_a and_o a_o bad_a kind_n of_o doctrine_n for_o these_o great_a inconvenience_n must_v needs_o ensue_v of_o it_o first_o if_o our_o sermon_n be_v true_o and_o proper_o the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o they_o common_o affirm_v it_o will_v from_o thence_o follow_v that_o the_o preacher_n in_o his_o sermon_n can_v err_v for_o the_o word_n of_o god_n can_v not_o 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less_o preach_v unto_o we_o because_o they_o lack_v a_o voice_n whereupon_o they_o call_v the_o scripture_n in_o a_o kind_n of_o derision_n but_o mutum_fw-la magistrum_fw-la that_o i_o sa_o dumb_a teacher_n we_o positive_o set_v down_o both_o the_o contrary_n against_o they_o first_o for_o their_o position_n that_o the_o scripture_n in_o themselves_o be_v but_o dark_a and_o obscure_a and_o such_o as_o can_v teach_v we_o we_o set_v down_o this_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d against_o they_o 1.19_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v as_o clear_v and_o as_o bright_a as_o a_o light_n which_o shine_v in_o darkness_n as_o the_o apostle_n peter_n teach_v we_o johan._n nay_o as_o bright_a as_o the_o sun_n beam_n as_o saint_n chrysostom_n avouch_v they_o be_v in_o themselves_o so_o facile_a and_o evident_a that_o they_o be_v able_a to_o instruct_v even_o the_o simple_a and_o idiot_n in_o all_o doctrine_n necessary_a unto_o their_o salvation_n gen._n adeo_fw-la ut_fw-la divina_fw-la scriptura_fw-la opus_fw-la non_fw-la habeat_fw-la humana_fw-la sapientia_fw-la ut_fw-la intelligatur_fw-la as_o he_o write_v in_o a_o other_o place_n so_o that_o as_o the_o apostle_n paul_n affirm_v if_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v hide_v unto_o any_o 4.3_o it_o be_v but_o only_o unto_o such_o as_o perish_v and_o this_o truth_n we_o prove_v against_o the_o papist_n by_o many_o great_a and_o strong_a argument_n ground_v partly_o upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n partly_o upon_o the_o concludencie_n of_o necessary_a reason_n and_o partly_o upon_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n 4._o be_v twenty_o six_o in_o number_n as_o i_o find_v they_o collect_v by_o a_o learned_a writer_n and_o all_o of_o they_o most_o excellent_a answer_v full_o all_o objection_n which_o be_v usual_o bring_v either_o by_o papist_n or_o schismatic_n against_o those_o position_n which_o because_o they_o be_v all_o of_o they_o most_o worthy_a your_o hear_n and_o yet_o the_o time_n 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false_a position_n now_o for_o their_o frivolous_a reason_n why_o the_o scripture_n can_v teach_v we_o because_o they_o lack_v a_o voice_n we_o set_v down_o this_o position_n that_o the_o scripture_n have_v not_o only_o a_o lively_a voice_n in_o they_o as_o bird_n and_o beast_n have_v but_o also_o a_o speak_a voice_n too_o as_o man_n and_o angel_n have_v whereby_o they_o do_v both_o teach_v we_o and_o preach_v unto_o us._n and_o this_o we_o prove_v by_o many_o sound_a reason_n whereof_o i_o will_v give_v you_o a_o taste_v but_o only_o of_o some_o one_o or_o two_o because_o the_o argument_n be_v long_a and_o the_o time_n be_v short_a our_o first_o argument_n be_v this_o which_o because_o i_o be_o now_o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o school_n and_o as_o in_o a_o colony_n of_o both_o the_o university_n i_o will_v conclude_v in_o scholastical_a form_n it_o be_v in_o effect_n thus_o much_o if_o the_o scrpture_n instruct_v we_o with_o a_o speak_a voice_n then_o do_v they_o likewise_o preach_v 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speak_v unto_o us._n 4.3_o and_o diverse_a other_o such_o like_a place_n there_o be_v allege_v by_o our_o man_n against_o the_o papist_n in_o discuss_v the_o five_o question_n upon_o the_o scripture_n wherein_o we_o labour_v to_o prove_v it_o as_o a_o ground_n of_o our_o religion_n against_o the_o papist_n heretical_a doctrine_n that_o the_o scripture_n in_o themselves_o do_v both_o speak_v and_o preach_v unto_o us._n our_o second_o argument_n be_v this_o that_o if_o the_o scripture_n do_v expound_v the_o scripture_n unto_o we_o then_o do_v they_o also_o preach_v unto_o us._n for_o what_o other_o thing_n be_v preach_v but_o expound_v of_o the_o scripture_n but_o the_o scripture_n expound_v the_o scripture_n unto_o we_o ergo_fw-la they_o preach_v unto_o us._n the_o assumption_n of_o this_o argument_n we_o prove_v by_o many_o argument_n every_o one_o have_v the_o strength_n of_o a_o firm_a demonstration_n and_o contain_v sufficient_a matter_n to_o furnish_v a_o whole_a sermon_n be_v 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than_o the_o soldier_n in_o pacu●ius_n do_v against_o a_o snail_n which_o they_o think_v to_o be_v some_o monstrum_fw-la borrendum_fw-la inform_v ingens_fw-la as_o the_o poet_n speak_v aeneid_n that_o be_v some_o fierce_a and_o terrible_a monster_n when_o they_o hear_v it_o thus_o describe_v animal_n terrigenum_fw-la tardigradum_fw-la divin_v domiportum_fw-la sanguine_fw-la cassum_fw-la thus_o ignorance_n and_o blindenes_n there_o feign_v many_o monster_n where_o true_a and_o solid_a knowledge_n find_v none_o at_o all_o but_o let_v we_o now_o proceed_v unto_o our_o second_o position_n that_o read_v be_v a_o effectual_a and_o a_o powerful_a kind_n of_o preach_v for_o which_o point_n whereas_o the_o papist_n teach_v we_o that_o the_o scripture_n as_o they_o be_v dark_a and_o can_v teach_v we_o so_o they_o be_v weak_a and_o can_v move_v we_o whereupon_o they_o call_v the_o scripture_n but_o literam_fw-la frigidam_fw-la and_o egenum_fw-la elementum_fw-la that_o be_v a_o weak_a and_o beggarly_a rudiment_n we_o positive_o
set_v down_o these_o thesis_n to_o the_o contrary_a first_o for_o the_o plainness_n and_o perspicuity_n of_o the_o scripture_n that_o deus_fw-la nobis_fw-la in_o scripture_n planissime_fw-la loquor_fw-la that_o god_n speak_v unto_o we_o most_o plain_o in_o the_o scripture_n which_o be_v jewel_n position_n in_o his_o apology_n second_o for_o the_o power_n and_o efficacy_n of_o the_o scripture_n that_o sacra_fw-la scriptura_fw-la vel_fw-la cum_fw-la ligitur_fw-la vel_fw-la cum_fw-la auditur_fw-la est_fw-la ordinarium_fw-la organon_n quo_fw-la spiritus_fw-la sanctus_fw-la mentes_fw-la lectorum_fw-la &_o auditorum_fw-la regenerate_a illustrat_fw-la vivificat_fw-la &_o coelestibus_fw-la virtutibus_fw-la ornat_fw-la what_o can_v there_o be_v more_o plain_a or_o more_o full_a or_o more_o direct_a unto_o our_o purpose_n and_o this_o be_v the_o categoricall_a position_n of_o brentius_n in_o his_o learned_a disputation_n upon_o this_o point_n against_o sotus_n he_o express_o affirm_v that_o 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powerful_a in_o operation_n and_o sharp_a than_o any_o two_o edge_a sword_n that_o it_o pierce_v even_o to_o the_o divide_n of_o the_o soul_n and_o the_o spirit_n the_o joint_n and_o the_o marrow_n and_o be_v able_a to_o discern_v even_o the_o very_a inward_a thought_n and_o intention_n of_o the_o heart_n a_o notable_a place_n indeed_o and_o which_o evident_o prove_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o either_o a_o dumb_a teacher_n nor_o yet_o a_o dull_a worker_n but_o a_o mighty_a and_o a_o potent_a preacher_n even_o to_o the_o very_a heart_n of_o man_n neither_o be_v these_o place_n to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o word_n preach_v only_o the_o only_a evasion_n of_o our_o ignorant_a adversary_n but_o of_o the_o word_n read_v also_o for_o to_o that_o only_a end_n they_o be_v allege_v by_o we_o protestant_n against_o the_o papist_n and_o otherwise_o they_o shall_v be_v allege_v beside_o the_o purpose_n the_o question_n be_v between_o we_o not_o of_o the_o preach_a of_o the_o scripture_n but_o of_o the_o read_n of_o they_o of_o the_o native_a and_o inherent_a perspicuity_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o not_o of_o that_o accidental_a light_n which_o be_v bring_v unto_o they_o by_o our_o exposition_n as_o they_o that_o be_v learned_a and_o conversant_a in_o the_o controversy_n do_v right_o well_o understand_v let_v we_o therefore_o now_o proceed_v unto_o our_o three_o position_n which_o be_v think_v the_o great_a monster_n that_o preach_v be_v not_o always_o more_o powerful_a than_o read_v for_o that_o point_n let_v i_o give_v you_o but_o only_o this_o one_o watch_n word_n that_o it_o be_v know_v to_o be_v a_o notable_a art_n and_o cunning_n of_o the_o papist_n to_o join_v unto_o their_o former_a disgrace_n of_o read_v a_o excessive_a and_o hyperbolical_a commendation_n of_o preach_v that_o so_o they_o have_v wean_v the_o people_n from_o the_o read_n of_o the_o scripture_n whereby_o their_o error_n may_v be_v discover_v and_o bring_v they_o on_o whole_o to_o depend_v upon_o their_o sermon_n and_o as_o it_o be_v to_o hang_v upon_o their_o lip_n that_o their_o ipse_fw-la dixit_fw-la may_v pass_v for_o demonstration_n they_o may_v so_o lead_v they_o more_o easy_o as_o it_o be_v hood_v and_o blindfold_a into_o all_o kind_n of_o error_n i_o pray_v god_n it_o be_v not_o also_o the_o drift_n of_o some_o other_o that_o will_v seem_v to_o be_v far_o unlike_a unto_o the_o papist_n but_o to_o return_v unto_o our_o question_n whereas_o petrus_n a_o s●●o_n a_o notable_a papist_n set_v down_o the_o whole_a sum_n of_o papistical_a doctrine_n as_o concern_v the_o comparison_n of_o read_v and_o preach_v in_o this_o short_a position_n that_o praedicatio_fw-la viva_fw-la longè_fw-la superat_fw-la scripturam_fw-la mortuam_fw-la that_o lively_a ●reaching_n be_v far_o more_o excellent_a then_o be_v dead_a read_n that_o position_n do_v brentius_n a_o very_a learned_a protestant_n confute_v and_o refel_v as_o a_o popish_a error_n in_o his_o defence_n of_o the_o confession_n of_o christopher_n duke_n of_o wittenberg_n where_o he_o handle_v this_o point_n both_o full_o &_o substantial_o both_o large_o and_o learned_o censure_v this_o forename_a position_n of_o sotus_n to_o be_v a_o contumely_n and_o reproach_n not_o only_o against_o the_o holy_a scripture_n but_o also_o against_o our_o saviour_n christ_n himself_o again_o whereas_o hossius_n a_o other_o papist_n affirm_v unto_o the_o same_o effect_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v but_o bare_a and_o naked_a element_n but_o preach_v be_v indeed_o the_o lively_a word_n of_o god_n that_o position_n do_v jewel_n the_o jewel_n of_o our_o church_n most_o earnest_o confute_v in_o his_o learned_a apology_n affirm_v it_o to_o be_v a_o speech_n in_o effect_n as_o blasphemous_a as_o the_o horrible_a heresy_n of_o montanus_n who_o presumptuous_o vaunt_v of_o himself_o that_o he_o can_v speak_v better_a than_o the_o holy_a ghost_n himself_o which_o be_v indeed_o both_o a_o true_a and_o a_o wise_a censure_n of_o it_o for_o what_o be_v it_o else_o to_o prefer_v our_o sermon_n before_o the_o holy_a scripture_n but_o to_o prefer_v man_n speech_n before_o the_o holy_a ghost_n therefore_o this_o doctrine_n of_o the_o papist_n the_o protestant_n confute_v by_o many_o strong_a reason_n which_o prove_v unto_o we_o plain_o that_o the_o scripture_n of_o themselves_o be_v both_o in_o teach_v and_o in_o mean_v of_o far_o great_a power_n than_o any_o man_n exposition_n how_o artificial_a soever_o i_o will_v give_v you_o but_o a_o taste_n of_o some_o one_o or_o two_o of_o our_o man_n reason_n and_o so_o pass_v on_o to_o the_o second_o of_o their_o scruple_n first_o therefore_o for_o the_o first_o point_n that_o the_o scripture_n have_v in_o themselves_o a_o great_a power_n to_o teach_v and_o instruct_v we_o than_o any_o preacher_n sermon_n luther_n prove_v it_o by_o this_o reason_n because_o all_o preacher_n and_o expounder_n of_o the_o scripture_n do_v prove_v their_o exposition_n to_o be_v true_a by_o scripture_n but_o every_o proof_n must_v be_v a_o notiori_fw-la as_o those_o that_o be_v learn_v know_v ergo_fw-la the_o scripture_n be_v notiores_fw-la that_o be_v to_o say_v more_o know_v and_o more_o plain_a than_o any_o preacher_n exposition_n this_o be_v luther_n opinion_n confirm_v with_o his_o reason_n which_o the_o learnede_a on_o our_o side_n have_v allow_v for_o a_o good_a one_o yea_o and_o do_v use_v the_o same_o themselves_o against_o the_o papist_n now_o second_o for_o the_o second_o point_n that_o the_o scripture_n have_v also_o great_a power_n to_o move_v we_o than_o any_o preacher_n sermon_n that_o most_o grave_a and_o learned_a father_n brentius_n for_o so_o it_o please_v bishop_n jewel_n to_o honour_v he_o 520._o yea_o and_o very_o worthy_o too_o for_o his_o great_a learning_n and_o wisdom_n he_o not_o only_o affirm_v it_o as_o his_o opinion_n but_o also_o confirm_v it_o by_o good_a and_o sound_a reason_n and_o he_o cit_v for_o this_o
siaurum_fw-la argento_fw-la pretiosius_fw-la dicatur_fw-la be_v therefore_o silver_n make_v no_o silver_n if_o a_o man_n chance_n to_o say_v that_o gold_n be_v better_a so_o may_v i_o likewise_o reason_n in_o this_o our_o present_a question_n be_v therefore_o preach_v make_v no_o preach_n if_o in_o some_o point_n it_o be_v surpass_v by_o read_v or_o must_v preach_a of_o necessity_n be_v disgrace_v if_o read_v in_o any_o respect_n be_v prefer_v he_o must_v needs_o be_v a_o man_n of_o a_o deplore_a blindness_n unto_o who_o thing_n so_o distant_a do_v seem_v to_o have_v coherence_n then_o why_o shall_v my_o commendation_n of_o ead_v which_o i_o give_v both_o according_a to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o to_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o to_o the_o profess_a doctrine_n of_o all_o true_a protestant_n be_v rather_o account_v a_o disgrace_n of_o preach_v than_o their_o excessive_a commendation_n of_o preach_v be_v account_v for_o a_o disgrace_n unto_o read_v or_o unto_o pray_v both_o which_o they_o have_v justle_v out_o of_o the_o church_n by_o their_o preach_v to_o use_v cartwrights_n own_o word_n this_o forsooth_o be_v the_o matter_n that_o in_o compare_v a_o sermon_n with_o the_o scripture_n i_o call_v preach_v but_o the_o word_n of_o a_o man_n which_o they_o confident_o hold_v to_o be_v true_o and_o proper_o the_o very_a word_n of_o god_n and_o resolute_o affirm_v that_o it_o ought_v to_o find_v the_o same_o credit_n and_o authority_n with_o all_o man_n a_o very_a untrue_a and_o a_o unsound_a position_n that_o i_o say_v no_o more_o of_o it_o and_o therefore_o i_o pray_v so_o much_o equity_n of_o you_o that_o be_v unlearned_a which_o i_o doubt_v not_o to_o obtain_v of_o those_o that_o be_v learned_a that_o that_o which_o shall_v be_v speak_v against_o this_o false_a opinion_n may_v not_o be_v so_o pervert_v as_o if_o it_o be_v speak_v simple_o against_o all_o preach_a which_o every_o good_a christian_a must_v of_o necessity_n confess_v to_o be_v a_o necessary_a duty_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o a_o powerful_a instrument_n to_o draw_v man_n soul_n unto_o he_o but_o yet_o for_o all_o that_o as_o preach_v may_v be_v too_o much_o depress_v so_o may_v it_o be_v likewise_o too_o much_o advance_v even_o to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o god_n himself_o who_o own_o work_n it_o be_v for_o as_o job_n note_v in_o his_o book_n that_o a_o man_n may_v speak_v wicked_o even_o in_o defence_n of_o god_n 7._o so_o may_v a_o man_n speak_v wicked_o even_o in_o defence_n of_o preach_v which_o sure_o be_v then_o do_v when_o we_o make_v our_o own_o sermon_n which_o be_v but_o man_n invention_n to_o equal_v in_o authority_n god_n divine_a and_o holy_a scripture_n and_o therefore_o that_o you_o may_v the_o better_o perceive_v the_o monstrous_a absurdity_n of_o this_o foolish_a opinion_n give_v i_o leave_v i_o pray_v you_o in_o a_o word_n or_o two_o to_o set_v before_o your_o eye_n that_o strange_a kind_n of_o doctrine_n which_o these_o man_n have_v deliver_v as_o concern_v preach_a for_o so_o you_o shall_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o easy_o discern_v whether_o such_o kind_n of_o preach_v be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n or_o no._n first_o they_o open_o deny_v that_o the_o read_n of_o god_n word_n be_v a_o preach_v of_o it_o because_o this_o lack_v exposition_n and_o yet_o s._n james_n tell_v we_o 15.21_o that_o moses_n be_v preach_v whensoever_o he_o be_v read_v even_o without_o exposition_n in_o which_o only_a instance_n of_o read_v the_o scripture_n preach_v may_v true_o and_o proper_o by_o call_v the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o yet_o this_o read_n though_o it_o be_v of_o all_o other_o in_o this_o one_o respect_n the_o most_o divine_a and_o authentical_a kind_n of_o preach_v because_o it_o deliver_v the_o word_n of_o god_n most_o simple_o and_o sincere_o in_o his_o own_o proper_a form_n without_o either_o any_o mixture_n of_o humane_a invention_n or_o any_o tainture_n of_o humane_a corruption_n yet_o this_o do_v they_o first_o of_o all_o and_o most_o of_o all_o cast_v away_o from_o be_v preach_v and_o call_v this_o no_o better_o than_o play_v upon_o a_o stage_n 579._o they_o be_v the_o very_a word_n of_o some_o of_o our_o chief_a reformer_n though_o i_o know_v there_o be_v many_o which_o will_v hardly_o believe_v that_o so_o lewd_a and_o profane_a a_o comparison_n shall_v ever_o proceed_v out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o a_o christian_a especial_o of_o so_o purify_v and_o refine_a christian_n as_o they_o will_v seem_v to_o be_v second_o they_o exclude_v from_o preach_v all_o those_o discourse_n which_o be_v make_v by_o any_o other_o person_n then_o only_o by_o ourselves_o whether_o it_o be_v by_o way_n of_o explication_n of_o a_o text_n as_o the_o comment_n and_o sermon_n of_o diverse_a great_a divine_n both_o ancient_a and_o recent_a or_o by_o way_n of_o common_a place_n without_o any_o certain_a text_n as_o the_o homily_n of_o our_o church_n which_o be_v indeed_o most_o learned_a and_o most_o godly_a sermon_n howsoever_o disgrace_v by_o those_o scornful_a spirit_n which_o spare_v not_o as_o you_o see_v the_o word_n of_o god_n itself_o but_o blasphemous_o compare_v the_o read_n of_o it_o unto_o the_o play_n upon_o a_o stage_n but_o yet_o neither_o of_o these_o kind_n do_v they_o allow_v for_o preach_v because_o they_o be_v not_o of_o our_o own_o but_o of_o another_o man_n make_v 8._o and_o yet_o baruk_v be_v command_v by_o the_o prophet_n jeremie_n to_o read_v his_o prophecy_n unto_o the_o people_n that_o be_v to_o read_v a_o sermon_n of_o another_o man_n make_v and_o be_v tell_v that_o it_o shall_v work_v a_o excellent_a effect_n in_o they_o as_o it_o do_v in_o very_a deed_n 29._o as_o before_o i_o have_v show_v but_o yet_o this_o will_v not_o those_o man_n allow_v for_o preach_v though_o saint_n augustine_n do_v yea_o &_o show_v great_a use_n of_o it_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n whereupon_o there_o do_v follow_v this_o evident_a absurditi●e_n which_o i_o pray_v you_o well_o to_o mark_v that_o if_o a_o 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especial_a point_n more_o eminent_a than_o the_o rest_n which_o will_v occupy_v the_o whole_a time_n only_o here_o let_v i_o give_v you_o this_o one_o general_a note_n to_o make_v the_o way_n more_o plain_a unto_o that_o particular_a subject_n whereupon_o i_o purpose_v somewhat_o long_o to_o insist_v that_o whereas_o there_o be_v but_o three_o kind_n or_o form_n of_o music_n 18._o as_o isidore_n observe_v the_o first_o harmonical_a which_o be_v express_v by_o voice_n and_o sing_v the_o second_o rhythmical_a which_o be_v express_v by_o string_n and_o striking_n the_o three_o organical_a which_o be_v express_v by_o pipe_n and_o blow_v 149._o or_o as_o s._n augustine_n distinguish_v they_o in_o somewhat_o other_o word_n but_o to_o the_o same_o effect_n cantus_fw-la flatus_fw-la pulsus_fw-la cantus_fw-la ju_n choro_fw-la flatus_fw-la in_fw-la tuba_fw-la pulsus_fw-la in_fw-la cithara_fw-la the_o psalmist_n here_o call_v for_o every_o one_o of_o they_o and_o will_v have_v none_o leave_v 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the_o gather_n of_o the_o grape_n when_o the_o vintage_n be_v end_v
side_n which_o lead_v you_o unto_o disobedience_n then_o unto_o the_o other_o which_o lead_v you_o unto_o dutiful_a and_o christian_a obedience_n that_o way_n which_o you_o go_v you_o have_v nothing_o to_o carry_v you_o but_o only_o the_o blast_n of_o a_o windy_a opinion_n yea_o &_o not_o that_o neither_o for_o your_o opinion_n be_v not_o settle_v that_o other_o way_n which_o you_o leave_v you_o have_v two_o great_a weight_n so_o sway_v you_o viz._n the_o authority_n of_o the_o law_n both_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a and_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n both_o ancient_a and_o modern_a a_o very_a heavy_a counterpoise_n &_o therefore_o i_o wonder_v how_o you_o can_v set_v they_o so_o light_a especial_o you_o have_v no_o such_o weighty_a authority_n to_o uncertain_a you_o 4._o as_o the_o church_n example_n may_v have_v be_v to_o resolve_v you_o which_o even_o in_o this_o particular_a case_n of_o the_o cross_n have_v both_o traditionem_fw-la auctricem_fw-la and_o 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crede_fw-la donec_fw-la aut_fw-la respuenda_fw-la esse_fw-la aut_fw-la semper_fw-la creden●a_fw-la vel_fw-la ratio_fw-la doceat_fw-la vel_fw-la authoritas_fw-la pracipiat_v a_o very_a sound_a rule_n &_o fit_a to_o be_v observe_v in_o every_o church_n by_o all_o the_o particular_a member_n of_o it_o wherein_o he_o prescribe_v no_o more_o unto_o we_o they_o he_o have_v subscribe_v unto_o himself_o as_o evident_o appear_v out_o of_o the_o former_a place_n who_o judgement_n &_o practice_n concur_v both_o together_o ought_v not_o be_v so_o light_o esteem_v of_o we_o especial_o we_o have_v in_o this_o case_n of_o the_o cross_n beside_o his_o authority_n &_o the_o example_n of_o the_o church_n both_o rationem_fw-la docentem_fw-la and_o authoritatem_fw-la praecipientem_fw-la either_o of_o which_o in_o his_o judgement_n be_v sufficient_a argument_n to_o lead_v we_o to_o obedience_n ob._n but_o you_o say_v you_o will_v not_o pin_v your_o conscience_n upon_o other_o man_n sleeve_n resp._n i_o answer_v that_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n where_o you_o may_v have_v the_o light_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n for_o your_o full_a instruction_n it_o be_v not_o simple_o good_a to_o pin_n your_o conscience_n upon_o the_o sleeve_n of_o man_n though_o how_o far_o saint_n augustine_n do_v yield_v even_o in_o this_o case_n i_o have_v before_o declare_v but_o in_o matter_n of_o order_n and_o obedience_n such_o as_o the_o observation_n of_o the_o cross_n be_v the_o scripture_n themselves_o do_v pin_n your_o conscience_n unto_o other_o man_n sleeve_n for_o in_o thing_n in_o different_a command_v for_o order_n sake_n where_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o magistrate_n go_v before_o there_o the_o conscience_n of_o the_o subject_a aught_o to_o lead_v he_o after_o as_o if_o it_o be_v pin_v unto_o the_o magistrate_n sleeve_n by_o the_o concur_v judgement_n of_o the_o two_o chief_a apostle_n 13.5_o peter_n and_o paul_n of_o who_o the_o one_o command_v we_o to_o submit_v ourselves_o to_o all_o ordinance_n of_o man_n for_o the_o lord_n sake_n the_o other_o to_o obey_v they_o even_o for_o conscience_n sake_n therefore_o to_o shut_v up_o this_o first_o objection_n i_o conclude_v with_o plato_n si_fw-la positioni_fw-la non_fw-la credis_fw-la theatet_fw-la reprobare_fw-la debes_fw-la si_fw-la reprobare_fw-la non_fw-la potes_fw-la positioni_fw-la credes_fw-la either_o prove_v you_o that_o the_o cross_n be_v a_o thing_n against_o conscience_n or_o else_o yield_v obedience_n unto_o it_o for_o conscience_n sake_n the_o second_o objection_n whereas_o order_n and_o comeliness_n be_v the_o ground_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o the_o church_n may_v add_v i_o have_v doubt_v that_o this_o sign_n exceed_v both_o these_o because_o there_o be_v give_v it_o a_o spiritual_a signification_n of_o our_o valour_n in_o confess_v christ_n bold_o answer_n the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n as_o we_o now_o use_v it_o be_v neither_o against_o comeliness_n nor_o against_o good_a order_n but_o very_o consonant_a unto_o both_o 28.29_o even_o by_o caluines_n own_o description_n of_o comeliness_n and_o order_n and_o therefore_o by_o your_o own_o rule_n ground_v upon_o saint_n paul_n may_v lawful_o be_v add_v and_o use_v by_o our_o church_n now_o if_o beside_o these_o two_o forename_a commodity_n it_o have_v also_o a_o three_o 3._o to_o wit_n a_o spiritual_a signification_n yea_o and_o that_o such_o a_o one_o as_o have_v not_o only_o be_v allow_v but_o also_o affect_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n this_o ought_v not_o to_o debar_v the_o use_n of_o it_o among_o we_o but_o rather_o to_o infer_v that_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o use_n for_o the_o very_a same_o apostle_n which_o prescribe_v the_o two_o former_a rule_n 14.26.40_o of_o order_n and_o comeliness_n in_o the_o very_a same_o chapter_n prescribe_v a_o three_o of_o great_a importance_n than_o they_o both_o to_o wit_n that_o they_o tend_v unto_o edification_n and_o except_o our_o ceremony_n be_v thus_o condition_v they_o ought_v not_o in_o any_o christian_a church_n to_o be_v use_v 32._o as_o caluine_n himself_o note_v totum_fw-la obseruationum_fw-la usum_fw-la &_o finem_fw-la ad_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la aedificationem_fw-la referamus_fw-la say_v he_o refer_v not_o only_a their_o intend_a end_n but_o also_o their_o daily_a use_n unto_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n ob._n but_o you_o say_v that_o to_o have_v a_o spiritual_a signification_n be_v to_o exceed_v the_o nature_n of_o a_o ceremony_n and_o to_o draw_v it_o unto_o a_o high_a quality_n 190._o perhaps_o you_o mean_v unto_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o sacrament_n for_o that_o be_v t._n c._n conceit_n from_o who_o i_o guess_v you_o borrow_v it_o resp._n but_o therein_o you_o great_o mistake_v the_o matter_n for_o not_o only_o sacrament_n but_o also_o ceremony_n too_o aught_o to_o have_v their_o spiritual_a signification_n of_o which_o if_o they_o be_v destitute_a they_o utter_o degenerate_a into_o vain_a and_o idle_a gesticulation_n neither_o be_v there_o any_o reason_n why_o such_o shall_v have_v any_o place_n in_o the_o church_n galat._n the_o apostle_n say_v of_o ceremony_n that_o they_o be_v shadow_n of_o thing_n to_o come_v of_o good_a thing_n and_o of_o heavenly_a thing_n saint_n hierom_n say_v that_o they_o be_v not_o only_a shadow_n but_o also_o eminency_n too_o he_o call_v they_o imagine_v and_o exemplaria_fw-la futurorum_fw-la which_o ought_v no_o less_o to_o be_v observe_v in_o our_o christian_a ceremony_n than_o it_o be_v in_o the_o jewish_a for_o as_o saint_n augustine_n observe_v whosoever_o observe_v any_o ceremony_n or_o sign_n christiana_n and_o not_o understand_v what_o thing_n it_o do_v signify_v he_o do_v seruire_fw-la sub_fw-la signo_fw-la he_o be_v a_o slave_n &_o a_o servant_n unto_o the_o outward_a sign_n but_o he_o that_o observe_v it_o know_v the_o signification_n of_o it_o he_o serve_v not_o the_o sign_n but_o the_o thing_n whereunto_o it_o be_v refer_v yea_o and_o calvin_n allow_v ceremony_n in_o all_o christian_n church_n 14._o require_v these_o three_o condition_n in_o they_o that_o they_o have_v in_o numero_fw-la paucitatem_fw-la in_o
can_v see_v how_o the_o cross_n can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v leave_v unto_o we_o by_o they_o unless_o you_o thereby_o intend_v that_o we_o have_v as_o it_o be_v wring_v it_o out_o of_o their_o hand_n and_o that_o so_o they_o leave_v that_o to_o we_o which_o they_o can_v not_o withhold_v from_o us._n if_o you_o take_v this_o phrase_n left_a unto_o we_o in_o a_o sense_n so_o prodigal_o and_o prodigious_o large_a that_o you_o count_v all_o that_o to_o be_v leave_v unto_o we_o by_o those_o man_n which_o have_v use_v the_o same_o thing_n before_o we_o then_o may_v both_o the_o sun_n and_o the_o moon_n and_o all_o the_o element_n be_v say_v to_o be_v leave_v unto_o we_o by_o idolater_n and_o consequent_o to_o be_v the_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n and_o so_o what_o be_v there_o any_o where_o which_o in_o this_o so_o large_a and_o so_o lax_n a_o sense_n may_v not_o be_v call_v a_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n as_o for_o this_o point_n therefore_o we_o true_o profess_v that_o we_o borrow_v not_o this_o ceremony_n from_o the_o romish_a synagogue_n though_o they_o have_v more_o late_o use_v it_o but_o from_o the_o primitive_a church_n who_o first_o ordain_v it_o so_o that_o as_o it_o can_v true_o be_v say_v that_o the_o papist_n have_v leave_v we_o either_o the_o lord_n prayer_n or_o the_o apostle_n creed_n or_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n but_o that_o we_o take_v all_o these_o by_o our_o own_o right_n out_o of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n 33._o which_o be_v open_a to_o we_o as_o well_o as_o to_o they_o so_o can_v it_o not_o true_o be_v say_v that_o the_o papist_n have_v leave_v unto_o we_o the_o cross_n but_o that_o we_o do_v borrow_v it_o from_o the_o primitive_a church_n who_o custom_n the_o papist_n have_v no_o more_o authority_n to_o engross_v unto_o themselves_o than_o the_o protestant_n have_v but_o may_v as_o free_o be_v use_v by_o we_o as_o by_o they_o for_o patet_fw-la omnibus_fw-la veritas_fw-la nondum_fw-la est_fw-la occupata_fw-la but_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o this_o ceremony_n of_o the_o cross_n though_o leave_v unto_o we_o by_o the_o primitive_a church_n yet_o be_v bring_v unto_o we_o by_o the_o hand_n of_o papist_n do_v that_o present_o make_v it_o a_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n if_o one_o shall_v receive_v a_o token_n by_o the_o hand_n of_o a_o pagan_a which_o be_v send_v unto_o he_o from_o a_o christian_a be_v it_o therefore_o make_v a_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n because_o he_o that_o bring_v it_o be_v a_o idolater_n holy_a order_n be_v give_v unto_o the_o first_o protestant_n by_o the_o hand_n of_o papist_n do_v this_o so_o defile_v the_o order_n of_o our_o ministry_n as_o to_o make_v they_o present_o the_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n sure_o though_o the_o papist_n have_v very_o foul_a hand_n yet_o do_v i_o not_o take_v they_o to_o be_v so_o ugly_a foul_a as_o the_o harpy_n foot_n be_v which_o defile_v all_o thing_n that_o they_o once_o have_v touch_v non_fw-la mihi_fw-la persuadeo_fw-la say_v peter_n martyr_n papatus_fw-la impietatem_fw-la esse_fw-la tantam_fw-la ut_fw-la quicquid_fw-la attingit_fw-la aeneid_n contaminatum_fw-la reddat_fw-la quò_fw-la bonis_fw-la usui_fw-la sancto_fw-la concedi_fw-la non_fw-la possit_fw-la in_o who_o christian_n and_o charitable_a judgement_n i_o do_v willing_o sit_v down_o ob._n now_o for_o your_o three_o objection_n that_o the_o change_n of_o our_o end_n in_o the_o use_n of_o the_o cross_n do_v not_o make_v any_o change_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n resp._n i_o wonder_v you_o will_v affirm_v a_o thing_n so_o contrary_a unto_o the_o rule_n of_o logic_n and_o reason_n who_o know_v not_o that_o of_o all_o the_o cause_n vincent_n it_o be_v only_o the_o end_n which_o make_v all_o action_n to_o be_v either_o good_a or_o evil_n especial_o in_o thing_n of_o indifferent_a nature_n tertullian_n do_v give_v we_o some_o instance_n to_o this_o purpose_n 10_o et_fw-la ego_fw-la mihi_fw-la gallinaceum_fw-la macto_fw-la non_fw-la minùs_fw-la quam_fw-la aescul●pio_fw-la socrates_n say_v he_o et_fw-la si_fw-la i_o odor_n alicuius_fw-la loci_fw-la offenderit_fw-la arabiae_n aliquid_fw-la incendo_fw-la what_o be_v the_o reason_n then_o that_o his_o kill_n of_o a_o cock_n and_o his_o burn_a of_o incense_n be_v all_o one_o action_n with_o that_o of_o the_o idolater_n yet_o be_v not_o idolatry_n as_o their_o action_n be_v he_o answer_v it_o himself_o quia_fw-la usus_fw-la ipsius_fw-la administratio_fw-la interest_n 3._o and_o again_o that_o he_o do_v these_o thing_n nec_fw-la eodem_fw-la ritu_fw-la nec_fw-la eodem_fw-la habitu_fw-la nec_fw-la eodem_fw-la apparatus_n quo_fw-la agitur_fw-la apud_fw-la idola_fw-la so_o that_o it_o be_v his_o difference_n in_o the_o end_n which_o make_v such_o a_o difference_n in_o the_o action_n for_o as_o saint_n augustine_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n observe_v non_fw-la actibus_fw-la 6.2.5.16_o sed_fw-la finibus_fw-la pensantur_fw-la officia_fw-la which_o our_o saviour_n also_o declare_v by_o three_o notable_a instance_n in_o the_o pharisy_n viz_n fast_v alm_n &_o pray_v all_o which_o good_a action_n be_v in_o they_o corrupt_v by_o their_o evil_a end_n because_o they_o do_v they_o to_o be_v see_v of_o man_n so_o that_o the_o end_n as_o you_o see_v not_o only_o exempt_v a_o action_n from_o sin_n but_o also_o infect_v a_o action_n with_o sin_n ob._n but_o you_o say_v that_o then_o by_o alter_v of_o the_o end_n we_o may_v bring_v back_o again_o even_o heathen_a idol_n too_o resp._n i_o answer_v that_o the_o comparison_n be_v very_o unequal_a for_o heathen_a idol_n be_v most_o evident_o forbid_v and_o condemn_v in_o the_o scripture_n which_o the_o cross_n be_v not_o and_o yet_o that_o there_o may_v be_v such_o a_o alteration_n in_o the_o end_n that_o even_o heathen_a idol_n may_v have_v some_o use_n in_o god_n service_n i_o have_v show_v you_o before_o out_o of_o saint_n augustine_n judgement_n 59_o a_o reply_n to_o fortify_v the_o ten_o objection_n ob._n all_o outward_a form_n and_o likness_n in_o god_n worship_n ordain_v by_o man_n and_o that_o to_o edify_v teach_v stir_n up_o man_n affection_n towards_o god_n they_o be_v forbid_v in_o the_o second_o commandment_n this_o be_v by_o the_o very_a text_n necessary_o consequent_a exod._n 20_o 4._o but_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n be_v such_o a_o likeness_n for_o master_n hooker_n a_o authentic_a expositor_n of_o our_o ceremony_n condemn_v all_o as_o vain_a that_o be_v not_o significant_a and_o yourself_o show_v that_o to_o be_v your_o judgement_n in_o your_o answer_n ergo_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o of_o saint_n paul_n that_o all_o aught_o to_o be_v to_o edify_v i_o pray_v to_o have_v it_o consider_v whether_o it_o be_v understand_v of_o such_o spiritual_a gift_n only_o as_o god_n give_v to_o his_o church_n and_o as_o be_v there_o name_v 1._o cor._n 14.26_o answer_n that_o all_o outward_a form_n and_o likeness_n ordain_v by_o man_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n to_o edify_v teach_v or_o stir_v up_o our_o affection_n towards_o god_n shall_v be_v forbid_v in_o the_o second_o commandment_n i_o do_v utter_o deny_v and_o i_o wonder_v that_o either_o yourself_o or_o any_o other_o christian_n shall_v affirm_v it_o no_o word_n of_o the_o commandment_n make_v for_o it_o and_o the_o mind_n of_o the_o commandment_n make_v clean_o against_o it_o the_o judgement_n both_o of_o calvin_n and_o beza_n and_o of_o other_o divine_n i_o have_v show_v against_o you_o pag._n 21.45_o the_o place_n which_o you_o cite_v exod._n 20.4_o thou_o shall_v make_v thou_o no_o grave_v image_n etc._n etc._n if_o you_o distract_v it_o from_o his_o meaning_n which_o follow_v in_o the_o next_o word_n thou_o shall_v not_o bow_v down_o to_o they_o nor_o worship_v they_o do_v make_v rather_o against_o the_o make_n of_o all_o image_n which_o error_n i_o think_v you_o will_v not_o maintain_v then_o against_o the_o apply_v they_o to_o so_o good_a a_o end_n as_o you_o in_o this_o place_n seem_v to_o condemn_v impossibi_fw-la shall_v any_o thing_n whatsoever_o be_v think_v unlawful_a which_o instruct_v our_o mind_n and_o stur_v up_o our_o affection_n true_o towards_o god_n 256._o sure_o if_o you_o be_v able_a to_o make_v good_a that_o even_o heathen_a idol_n can_v true_o and_o proper_o produce_v these_o effect_n i_o will_v not_o doubt_v to_o affirm_v even_o they_o to_o be_v lawful_a so_o far_o be_o i_o from_o think_v that_o any_o thing_n be_v in_o this_o commandment_n forbid_v which_o either_o inlightn_v our_o understanding_n or_o inflame_v our_o affection_n towards_o god_n i_o rather_o hold_v it_o for_o a_o certain_a truth_n that_o idol_n be_v here_o forbid_v upon_o a_o contrary_a supposition_n namely_o that_o they_o blind_v our_o understanding_n and_o avert_v our_o affection_n away_o from_o god_n and_o therefore_o your_o proposition_n want_v some_o better_a proof_n than_o your_o bare_a assertion_n for_o as_o i_o say_v i_o do_v simple_o deny_v