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A37296 Nayler's blasphemies discovered, or, Several queries to him proposed with his owne answers thereunto / by a friend to the truth of Christ. Deacon, John, 17th cent. 1657 (1657) Wing D486; ESTC R19310 45,154 64

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till this upstart Faction spread it selfe abroad like an infectious cloud for if in all this time there were no Church then could Christ be no Head without a body nor no Husband without a Spouse nor a Saviour without a people saved Answ. All formes differing from the light of Christ are in Babylon darknesse and distraction and the true Church is in God 1 Thess. 1. 1. Such onely are out of Babylon who are gathered out of the world by the spiritual light of Christ and there it hath been ever since his passion and he hath never been without though but in a small number which he hath saved which the world hated and scornfully miscall'd and into Prisons and corners have they been driven all this time of the man of Sinne and his Papal Priesthood but now he is come who is spreading his truth and multiplying his seed as a cloud to the Egyptians wherefore the Heathen rage exceedingly But it seems by the Query that thou ownest the Church all along since the Apostles to have been in the multitude of the Popish Priests rather then in the Martyrs seeing thou speakest so scornfully of a small number to be the Church of Christ who are so contemptible which the Church ever was and so it is at this day Luke 12. 32. Mat. 7. 14. Mat. 20. 16. Reply 9 10. Now I beleeve you speak truth as that all Formes differing from Christ and so yours among the rest are of Babylon and under the destruction thereof not but that there may be difference in circumstance and yet a concurrence in substance as there was in the Primitive times even amongst the very chiefe of the Apostles and though there be some difference in part of opinion yet may those so different be Christians still but not so if like you they erre in the main And what you tel me here is nothing but what I knew before ever I heard of you and is nothing to the thing required at all for we know and are sure that there now is and ever hath been a Church on earth as also was that of the Thessalonians as well as other Churches which is evidently declared in many places And what I queried was concerning a visible Church not of an in visible Church of which you speak nothing at all and in that you grant that Christ had ever a Church since his passion you also grant your selves to be none of his Church you being never heard of until of late years unless in the days of holy Moses but if you follow their wayes be careful of their end And for what you further adde it is nothing but of words without proofe and the Pope calls them that dye for the testimony of his Apostacy Martyrs which are rather malefactors and for them who are Martyrs indeed they dyed for the testimony of that Religion Doctrine and Ordinances which we professe and you now oppose and like the Heathen rage exceedingly against the Ministers and professors thereof who are so contemptible in your eyes and others of your society as to be railed against with the unchristianlike termes of dumb dogs serpents sons of perdition instruments and children of the Devil and the like and if this be the language of the spirit of God what then is the speech of Satan Qu. 11. Whether you own the Resurrection of the body after death if not of what doth and shall Christs Kingdome consist for he can be no King without his subjects Answ. I say yea the Resurrection I own according to the Scriptures Rep. 11. This is no satisfactory Answer in general unless you do descend unto particulars for I know not whether you doe mean according to the sense you wrest it unto and so by such subtilty smother perhaps heresie in privacy for some of your Fraternity have affirmed to me that there is no other Resurrection spoken of in Scripture but in this life as from the death of the first Adams fin unto the life of the second Adams righteousnesse contrary to the true me aning and so not according to the Scriptures which usually speaks of a resurrection from the dead after a dissolution of the body therefore speak out your meaning plainly Qu. 12. Whether you acknowledge the Trinity of the persons in the Godhead the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost one substance but three in subsistence or manner of beings Answ. For the word Trinity thou mayst send it to Rome from whence it came but God the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghost and that these three are one I know and acknowledge according to the Scriptures 1 John 5. 7. Reply 12. Now O subtil Deceiver yet simple Etymologer doth not thy pen here stink with the tinkture of ancient Hereticks whom you here imitate in that you say that the word Trinity came from Rome in a derision of it I shall not stand to dispute it as a Controversie because perhaps you brought it thence with most if not all of your Tenets but this I know it was a word long time used and never disallowed that I know of by any unlesse erroneous Hereticks for the Latines have it as well as the English thus Trinitas as we Trinity both signifying three in one and so agreeable unto Scripture But O wretched imitator of Hereticks who with thy self hath stumbled at this word Michael Servetus that heretical blasphemer compared the Trinity unto Cerberus the Porter of Hell-gate and Arius that notable Heretick counted the word Trinity a Fiction and a laughing-stock whose end was as wretched as his life was wicked for in easing himselfe of natures courses he disburdened himselfe of his bowels and the same opinion is now upheld by his Successor Biddle a man no lesse obstinate then erroneous The Turkish Mabomet and Sabellio likewise held the word Trinity in derision as doe you and many more of your Society and I fear in many more of your Tenets concurre with them Qu. Whether Jesus the Son of Mary incarnated in the flesh Godman in one person who dyed at Jerusalem upon the Crosse rose from the death to life the third day and ascended on high into the highest heavens and sitteth on the right hand of God be the true Messias that you own and say is within you Answ. Jesus the Sonne of God and Eternal Word which came downe from God became flesh borne of the Virgin God and man who dyed at Jerusalem rose againe ascended and sitteth at the right hand of the Father the true Messias which Christ we own to be within us which no carnal minde which denies his light can comprehend and Christ in you except ye be Reprobates 1 Cor. 10. 4. Reply 13. This is in some sort more then any of the rest satisfactory but that the true Messias is within you I have not faith to beleeve it because I see such opposite actings to him or any thing of his spirit That I apprehend them rather
the first wholly unanswered not on thing being properly cleared Qu. 7. Whether the Bible be the written word of God yea or no if not what means the Apostle 1 Cor. 14. 36. 37 38. Gal. 1. 10 11. 1 Thess. 2. 13. Answ. That is the word which the Bible declares of which is invisible and eternal which they that received it of God and had it in their hearts did speak or write it down which writing they called a declaration Luke 1. 1. 1 John 1. 3. But doth no where say the Bible is the word but God and Christ is the word John 1. 1. 1 Pet. 1. 25. And of this word the Apostle means which was of God and not of man nor by man and the word of God is the name of Christ and not the name of the Bible Rev. 19. 13. Reply 7. I must needs confesse though I am loth to use it thine own language best beseems the exordium of this Reply Thou blind Sot canst thou so much boast of the spirit of light and yet be so far blinded in darknes as not to discern between the co-essential and co-eternal word with God the temporal expressive word of God And if they received this word of God as you acknowledge they did how then can it be but it must be the word of God from whence it did proceed and the Scriptures quoted by thee are nothing to the purpose For John 1. 1. The word was with God and the word was God And so this temporal word is but the expressive word of that co essential word and so it is a lye to say that this is that word that the Apostle means when he saith For this cause thank we God alwayes that when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us ye received it not as the word of man but as it is in truth the word of God This is clear and the Apostle saith that it was not of man nor by man but by the revelation of Jesus Christ and so not the word Christ but the word of Christ who is God And for the other it is so clear speaking plainly of writings that it needs not be discoursed And a learned Author renders that place Rev. 19. 13. as being spoken of Christ as to his co-essential name and I the rather believe it in respect that the same St. John records and testifies of what he writ as from the mouth of an Angel These are the true sayings of God and makes a distinct difference between the word of God and the testimony of Jesus and such like titles are usually attributed to the holy volume of the Scriptures as the word of God * the word of the Lord the commandements of the Lord and the like But that the Scriptures should say that the Bible is the word of God is absurd to imagine because it is a word not there to be found it being a word of Art used to expresse the whole volume of the Scriptures in general but yet that which is therein contained is so called and is so indeed Qu. 8. If the Ministry now established be Antichristian where then and who be Orthodoxal Ans. Those Ministers who have their Authority from Chr. are such as abide in the doctrine of Christ and these are they who are hated of the world ever was for crying out against the deceits and filthinesse of the world Priests and people And whereas thou askest where they are I say in Gaoles and Prisons in this Nation many of these are for the same now by means of those who live out of the doctrine of Christ and in the steps of the false Prophets Scribes and Pharisees seeking for their gaine bearing rule by their meanes being call'd of men Masters c. all which are forbidden by Christ and for bearing witnesse against such much innocent blood hath been shed though they ever call themselves Orthodoxal and the Ministry of Christ establisht by men Reply 8. That these Ministers who are of Christ abide in the doctrine of Christ we know and witnesse and need not you to teach us and hereby are assured you are not of him but of some other And the persecuters in all Ages like you sought to set up ● doctrine and way of worship of themselves and yet were sensual having not the spirit though separated as peculiarly sacred such as are you and your Founder the Pope Yet still was it their practice like as you doe now to cry down and as the Eagle to her prey pick forth first the right eye of Christianity to wit the Ministry that they might no more speak uprightly of that name in which onely is Redemption that so the Shepherds being destroyed and the flock dispersed they might with the more ease and the lesse difficulty be devoured by such wolfes as thy selfe and so be made a prey for the deceiver But since you say the true Ministers are in Gaoles and Prisons in this Nation who doe you meane the Romish Priests from whence you sprung and such like if these be they speak out or are they some of those branches which are sprung from that grove of heresie to wit your vagabond fraternity taken up as strayed from their habitations and from their Religion too But that these are for the same now that the true Saints in former times were martyr'd for is a most notorious lye and prove it if thou canst that ever any dyed for this cause wherein you now persevere except Jesuits and you seem to accuse us as being out of the doctrine of Christ as also saith Rome because we are not one with you and them And you seem to alledge that they seek for their gaine from their quarter speaking of our Ministry of which in my Answer to your Queries and bearing rule by their meance speaking of Scribes and Pharisees which is another lye for it is by Gods Authority they rule over us and watch for our soules and you againe further adde it being called Masters of men which is cleared by that most Reverend Mr. Baxter and answer him if thou canst And then thou sealest all this with thine own Signet a most damnable lye that it is forbidden of Christ and that for bearing witnesse against such much innocent blood hath been spilt but whether you meane the Gunpowder Traytors or Garnet that Jesuit with the rest of those Romish Priests whose beginning was at Tyber and whose end not undeserved at Tyburne but prove that ever any unlesse such dyed for that cause you now stand for if you can name them Qu. 9. Since that you say that Presbiterians Independents and the like differing Forms are of Babylon and under the distruction thereof I quere who are out of it and where is the true Church Qu. 10. And if you say a small number of Quakers I query againe where then hath the Church of Christ been since his passion for this 1600. years and more