necessarie to saluation not expressed in so manie wordes and syllables yet in full sense contained and to be plainlie concluded out of the holie scriptures and these we receiue to be of as great credit as anie thing that is expresselie contained in the scriptures The other kinde of traditions was rites and cerimonies which are not necessary to saluation but are in the Churches power to alter as it maie stand best with edification Among which S. Basill rehearseth some that long since are abolished as the rite of standing in praier one the Lords daie and betweene Easter and Whitsontid which of it selfe is a thing indifferent as also that manner of glorifying in which they said with the holy ghost whereas al the Church long since hath said neither in the holie Ghost nor with the holie Ghost but to the holie Ghost To beleeue that the holie Ghost is to be glorified equallie with the Father and the sonne it is necessarie to saluation but in what forme of wordes that shal be song in the Church it is indifferent and the later Church hath vsed her libertie herein to alter that forme which Saint Basill saith was deliuered by the Apostles themselues without writing By this I hope it is manifest what kinde of traditions are of equall force or authoritie with the scripture euen they which haue their ground in the scriptures and none other For as the same Basill affirmeth Euerie word or deede ought to be confirmed by testimonie of the holie Scriptures Againe For if all that is not of faith is sinne as the Apostle saith and faith is of hearing and hearing by the word of God whatsoeuer is beside the holie Scripture being not of faith is sinne Thus Basill whatsoeuer he speaketh of vnwritten traditions he meaneth not against the insufficiencie of the holie scriptures except you will saie he is contrarie to him-selfe in manie places beside these that I haue noted Tr. de vera piafide Epist. 80. in Reg. Breu. Inter. 1. 65. 68. de ornatu Monachi Your next testimonie is out of Eusebius lib. 1. Eu. Demonst. cap. 8. whole wordes you mangle after your manner leauing out at your pleasure more then you rehearse Eusebius hauing shewed the excellencie of Christ aboue Moses declareth also that there are two manners ofliuing in Christianitie the one of them that are strong and perfect the other of them that are subiect to manie infirmites and that whereas Moses did write in tables without life Christ hath written the perfect preceptes of the new Testament in liuing mindes his disciples following their Masters minde considering what Doctrine is meete for both sortes haue committed the one to writing as that which is necessarie to be kept of all the other they deliuered without writing to those that were able to receiue it wich haue excelled the common manner of men in knowledge in strength in abstinence c. And this is the meaning of Eusebius in that place not of anie traditions necessarie to saluation of euerie man which are not taught in the holy scriptures but of certaine precepts tending to perfection not enioyned to all but written in the heartes of some The third man is Epiphanius who you saie is more earnest then Eusebius writing against certaine heretikes called Apostolici which denied traditions as our Protestantes do Which is but a tale for they were more like to Popish monkes and friers then Protestantes For they professed to abstaine from marryage to poslesse nothing and such other superstitions they obserued But what saith Epiphanius for traditions He saith that we must vse tradition For all thinges can not be taken out of the scripture wherefore the holie Apostles deliuered somethings in the scriptures and something in tradition Mine answer to Epiphanius is the same that it was to Basilius Namelie that such things as were not expressed in plaine wordes in the scripture were approoued by tradition being neuertheles such thinges as were to be concluded necessarilie out of the scripture As in the question for which he alledgeth tradition it is manifest Tradiderunt c. the holie Apostles of God saith he haue deliuered vnto vs that it is sinne after virginitie decreed to be turned vnto marriage This the Papistes doubt not but that they are hable to prooue out of the scripture except where the Pope dispenseth And we acknowledge that where the vow was made a duisedly to a Godlie purpose and abilitie in the partie to performe it that it is sinne to breake it neither can the Pope dispense with it In the other place where he rehearseth manie examples of traditions he speaketh of rites and ceremonies as is before declared wherof manie are not obserued in the Popish Church neither is there anie of them necessarie to saluation But Epiphanius you saie prooueth it out of scripture 1. Cor. 11. 14. 15. vhere Saint Paulsaith as I deliuered vnto you And againe so I teach and so I haue deliuered vnto the Churches and If you holde fast except you haue beleeued in vaine To the first I answer that it prooueth no traditions necessarie to saluation which are not contained in the scriptures as is more manifest by the second and third text for where Saint Paul saith so I teach in all the Churches of God 1. Cor. 14. 33. he saith immediatelie before that God is not the God of sedition but of peace 1. Cor. 15. 1. 2. 3. the Apostle speaketh manifestlie of the doctrine of the resurrection wherof he him-selfe in that place writeth plentifullie and in manie other places of scripture the same article is taught moste expresselie You see therefore how substantiallie Epiphanius prooueth tradition vnwritten out of the scripture to be necessarie to saluation which is our question But with Epiphanius saie you ioyneth fullie and earnestlie Saint Chrysostome writing vpon these wordes of Saint Paul to the purpose Stand fast and holde traditions out of which cleere wordes Saint Chrysostome maketh this illation Hinc patet c. Hereof it is euident that the Apostles deliuered not all by epistle but manie thinges also without writing and those are as worthie credit as these Therefore we think the tradition of the Church to be worthie of credit it is a tradition seeke no more The sense of these wordes is that the Apostles in their preaching did expresse manie things more perticularly then in their epistles not that they preached anie thing necessarie to saluation but that the same was contained either in their epistles or in other bookes of the holie scripture And so I saie of the tradition of the Church which is a doctrine contained in the scriptures though not expressed in the same or in so manie wordes as the three persons and one God in trinitie and trinitie in vnitie to be worshipped c. is of equall credit with that which is expressed in the scriptures because the ground of our faith standeth not vppon the sound of wordes but vppon
creature can haue except he be also creator and God himselfe therefore Christ truelie as man receiueth that which is giuen but in respect and right of his godheade he is able to receiue and exercise that power which none can haue but God onelie These thinges indeede maie seeme vnto the simple to be farre fetched and farre from the question of priests power to remit sinnes but they are much farther from the truth of our Catholike faith and Religion that our sauiour Christ in respect of his Diuine nature should be spoiled of his authority or els should thereby worke nothing in a manner in the cheife most necessarie partes of our redemption that Popish priests might be made equall or not farre vnlike him in the power of pardoning sinnes ALLEN For as the due consideration of Christes authoritie and excellent office touching his manhood will helpe vp the decaied honour and iurisdiction that the guides of Gods Church by the right of his high calling do iustlie challenge so it shall expresse the boldnesse of certaine miscreants of this age who to further their sundrie euil in tents and detestable doctrines haue dishonoured Christes dignitie touching his incarnation and office of his redemption exceeding much both in himselfe and in persons of his Pristes and substitutes some of them fearing as I take it lest the honour and office of Christes Priesthood might by participation descend to the Apostles and Priestes of the Church letted not to hold that Christ was his fathers Priest according to his diuine nature of which blasphemie Iohn Caluine was iustlie noted wherein the wicked man whiles he went about to disgrace the dignitie of mortall men became exceeding iniurious to the second person in Trinitie One other of that schoole and of his owne neast denied that Christ in his manhoode should iudge the world lest there might seeme to be some force of punishment and correction of wickednes practized by mans ministerie in this life for the resemblance of Christes iudgement to come And so taught one Richerius of a Carmelite a Caluinist Other deny Christ being now in heauen to make praier for vs according to his manhoode because it tendeth towardes the intercession as Saint Paulin expresse wordes recordeth of him Quòd saluare in perpetuum potest accedens ad Deum per semetipsum semper viuens ad interpellandum pro nobis That for euer he is of power to giue saluation hauing accesse to God by him-selfe and alwaies Iiuing to make intercession for vs. Yea most of the Sacramentaries for the aduantage of their vngodlie assertion that Christ in his owne person as he is God and man should not be present in the sacrament doe couertlie blaspheme the blessed and highlie sanctified fleshof our sauiour auouching it to be vnprofitable whereby they vnaduisedlie dishonour the dreadfull incarnation of Christ and all the workes wrought by the meane of his flesh and blood and ministerie of his manhoode for the remission of our sinnes and purchasing saluation to his Church FVLKE The due consideration of Christes authoritie and excellent office touching his manhoode will nothing helpe to restore the decaied honour and iurisdiction of Popish priesthoode except you can both prooue your Popish priests capable of such honour and power as the sonne of God is and also bring forth the recordes out of the holy scriptures for that high calling whereof you boast That any faithful Christian whome you to maintaine an Antichristian authoritie call Miscreantes haue dishonoured Christs dignitie touching his incarnation and office of his redemption it is a slaunder stronglie aduouched but slenderlie prooued For first Caluine affirming Christ to be a priest in his wholl person God and man derogateth nothing from that dignitie neither is he iniurious against the second person in trinitie for Christ is an high priest after the order of Melchesidech and our redeemer not as a minister and seruant onelie but as the sonne as the King os peace and righteousnes without father without mother without genealogy hauing neither beginning of his daies nor end of his life al which things can not be restrained to the humanitie of Christ but are proper to him as he is equall and eternall with his father That Richerius should denie that Christ in his manhoode should iudge the world it might well be a slaunder of that grosse potheaded Cyclops Villegagnon which when he durst not abide the inuasions of the barbarous people in Gallia antarctica where he had enterprised a conquest he quarelled with Richerius and other godlie persons to haue a colour of returne and a wellcome of the Papists And as touching his slaunderous libell that you send the reader vnto I referre you them to the answere confutation of Richerius Thirdlie that Christ doth make praiers for vs according to his manhoode it is not sufficiently prooued by the text of the Apostle to the Heb. 7. because he may and doth make continuall intercession for vs by the vertue and worthines of the sacrifice of his death although he conceiue no prayers for vs in forme of wordes as men vse vpon earth And if it be graunted that Christ so praieth for vs yet it tendeth nothing towardes the intercession of Saints but rather against it because the interceffion of Christ is sufficient without them yea if the intercession of Saints were prooued it draweth not of necessity praier vnto Saints after it and therefore there were smal purpose in them that denie Christ in such forme to praie for vs to controul the inuocatioÌ of Saints which thing being either graunted or denied prooueth neither too nor fro that Saints are to be praied vnto or ãâã That any one of those whome you cal Sacramentaries doth either ouertly or couertly blaspheme the blessed flesh of our Sauiour auouching it to be vnprofitable otherwise then our sauiour Christ himselfe auouched if it were separated from his diuine and quickening spirite doth profitte nothing you are not able to iustifie and therefore you send vs in the margent to Cyrill vpon Iohn lib. 4. Cap 14. whoe sheweth in deede that the flesh of Christ as it is the flesh of the sonne of God hath quickening vertue and power in it to our eternall redemption but otherwise affirmeth nothing thereof that we all are not readie to subscribe vnto ALLEN Let vs therefore Christianlie confes with the scripture and with the Church of Christ that our sauiour not onelie by power equall to his father concerning his diuine nature but also by the sending and graunt of his father and vnction of the holie spirit beeing farre vnder them both in his humane nature doth remit sinnes Whereupon it orderlie followeth that whosoeuer denyeth man to haue authoritie or that he maie haue power graunted him by God to forgiue sinnes he is highlie iniuriouse to our sauiours owne person dispensation of his flesh and mysterie of his holie incarnation For though there be great diuersitie betwixt his state and others because
whereunto scripture is consonant And here you swell as much as anie to ade in the opinion of your deepe knowledge in these matters Neuertheles we ignorant and vnlearned Protestantes thinke it more safe to be ignorant of the manner of the sonnes generation with Saint Ambrose then to determine beside the scriptures thereof with Thomas Aquinas When Saint Ambrose was pressed with the same question that you set downe of the aduersaries how can God beeing a spirit beget a sonne and yet the same not to be after his father in time or nature but equall with him in both and how doth the father beget he answereth thus De side ad Gratian. lib. 1. cap. 5. Quaeris à me quomodo sifilius sit non priorem habet patrem quaero item abste quando aut quomodo putes filium esse generatum Mihi impossibile-est generationis scire secretum Mens deficit vox silet non meatantùm sed angelorum Supra potestaââ supra angelos supra Cherubin supra Seraphin supra omnem sum est quia scriptum est pax autem Christi quae est supra ennem sensum Si pax Christi supra omnem sensum est quemadmodum non est super omnem sensum tanta generatio Tu quoque manum ori admoue scrutari non licet superna mysteria Licet scire quod natus sit non licet discutere quemadmodum natus sit Illud negare mihi non licet hoc quaerere metus est Nam si Paulus ea quae audiuit raptus in tertium coelum ineffablia dicit quomodo nos exprimere possumus paternae generationis ercanum quod nec sentire potuââmus nec audire Thou askest of me how if he be a sonne he hath not his father before him I ask likewise of thee when or how thou thinkest that the sonne was begotten For to me it is impossible to knowe the secret of his generation The minde faileth the voice stayeth not of me ãâã but euen of the Angells It is aboue powers aboue ãâã aboue Cherubim aboue Seraphim aboue all vnderstanding because it is written The peace of Christ which is aboue all vnderstanding If the peace of Christ be aboue all vnderstanding how is not so excellent a generation aboue all vnderstanding Thou also holde thy hande before thy mouth it is noâ lawfull to search these high mysteries it is lawful to know ãâã ãâã begotten it is not lawful to discusse after what manner he is begotten That to denie it is not lawfull for me this to inquââ of I am afearde For if Paul saith that those things which ãâã being taken vp into the third heauen were unspeakeââ how can we expresse the secret of the fathers generation ãâã we could neither vnderstand nor heare c. If thâ determination were no lesse to be beeleeued ãâã other mysteries of the trinitie that are expressed in the scripture as you affirme Saint Ambrose was short in his faith of the trinitie as euerie man may see by his answere Neuertheles whatsoeuer is obiected that the soone should not be equall in time and nature with the father whereof ensueth the pluralitie of Gods is manifestlie confuted by al those scriptutes that affirme one onelie God and Iesus Christ to be God and the onelie be gotten ãâã of the father which must needes argue the ãâã ãâã in nature time or eternity How this may be ãâã ãâã the scripture affirmeth that it is Christians ãâã ãâã ought not or neede not to inquire If infidels in ãâã they are not to be answered by authoritie of ãâã scriptures which they beeleeue not much lesse ãâã the Church which they know not And then the ãâã is out of the matter in coÌtrouersy whether ãâã things that are to be beleeued necessarie to ãâã be conteined in the holie scriptures Neuerthelesse ãâã to infidels that Philosophicall answer may be giuen how the generation of the sonne by the father ãâã be without inequality in time or nature but ãâã it is or must be onelie by vnderstanding of him selfe he thinke it for all your bragges you are not able to ãâã the determination of your Church to auow it ãâã for all is not defined by your Church that the ãâã haue wearied their heades to dispute of But if you could prooue it of necessitie to be so the scriptures that affirme Christ to be the wisedome of the father the word that was in the beginning with the father c. would giue as much light for the manner of his generation as is possible and profitable for man to know Beside this of the ãâã of the sonne you haue other questions of ãâã aduersaries what meane they you saie to holde that the ãâã ghost proceedeth from the father and that the sonne ãâã not but is begotten To this I answere That the ãâã ghost proceedeth from the father the text of ãâã is plaine Iohn 15. 26. that the sonne is begotten of the father Iohn 1. 14. That the sonne proceedeth not from the father albeit he is begotten it is heresie and blaspemie to affirme For he him selfe affirmeth Iohn 16. 28. I proceeded from the father and came into the world and Ioh. 8. 42. Another question you haue like vnto this whie is it heresie to say that the sonne proceedeth from the father or that the holie ghost is begotten I aunswere to saie the holie ghost is begotten it is heresie because the scripture teacheth that the sonne is the onelie begotten of the father But to saie that the sonne proceedeth from the father is no heresie but the contrarie is heresie because it is against the expresse words of Christ as I haue shewed before And Saint Augustine affirmeth expressely that whatsoeuer is begotten proceedeth so that you cannot denie the proceeding of the sonne from the father except you denie his begetting Neuertheleles although the sonne and the holie ghost do both proceede yet not both alike as the same Augustine sheweth de trin lib. 5. cap. 14. vbi illud elucescit vtpote quod solet multos mouere cur non sit filius etiam Spiritus Sanctus cum ipse à patre exeat sicut in Euangelio legitur Exiit enim non quo modo natus sed quo modo datus ideo non dicitur filias quia neque natus est sicut vnigenitus neque factus vtper Dei gratiam in adoptionem nasceretur sicutinos Where that also is made cleare which is wont to moue manie men why the holie ghost also is not the sonne seeing that he also proceedeth from the father as it is read in the gospell For he proceeded not as begotten but as giuen and therefore he is not called the sonne because he is neither begotten as the onely begotten nor made that by the grace of god he might be borne into adoption as we Here you see that proceeding is common to both the persons yet one manner of proceeding proper to the sonne and another to the holie ghost A
FVLKE In that you allow no necessitie that should driue any man to take any sacrament of such as you count heretikes but onelie the sacraments of baptisme and penance in present perill of death and yet account the receiuing of sacraments so necessarie you insinuat whereunto you would bring the matter if it laie in your power and perswasion Your late attemptes by excommuncations and inuasion haue made open your meaning But he that sitteth in heauen shall laugh you to scorne the Lord him-selfe shall haue you in derision and all reasonable men shall thinke you ridiculous while by declaming generallie against heresie and the hurt that cometh thereby you labour to bring your falsehood into credit and the trueth into disdaine It is a great part of popish rhetoricke in these daies to enueie mightelie and eloquentlie against schisme heresie salsehood errors c. let the triall goe whether partie maie be iustlie charged with these crimes But Master Allen albeit he liketh that kinde of disputing and vseth it much him-selfe yet his purpose is in this treatise to examine the matter so throughly that men shal be able not onelie to vnderstand the trueth in their mindes but also to feele it with their handes Of which trueth he hath so great assurance that he sweareth as deepelie as anie Christian man can doe not onelie that he doubteth nothing but also that he can neuer mistrust anie point of that faith in which he was new borne baptized How wel he performeth this large promise as also of such moderation as he wil vse in touching the inmous persons of his aduersaries the booke following will declare wherein if auricular confession be so sensi blie prooued out of the holie scriptures as he maketh vaunt it shal be I my selfe will ioine with him that if it were ten times as burt henous as it seemeth to be no Christian man ought wilfully to omit it in paine of eter nall damnation but if the scriptures of God will afford no commaundement for it and the moste auncient Catholike Church on earth neuer thought it necessarilie to be required I maie reasonablie require that such as thought it needles before this treatise was written when they see as much as can be said for it to be disprooued they will acknowledge that without tyranie to mens consciences it cannot be imposed That Christ did forgiue sinnes not onelie by proper power and nature as he was God but also by ministerie as he was a man and as he was a Priest and head of the Church and that vpon that ground the priests power in remitting sinnes in the Church doth stand THE FIRST CHAP. ALLEN CHrist Iesus the Sonne of the liuing God being euerlastinglie of the same substance power and nature that his Father and the holie Ghost be of as being equall and one God with them both worketh mightelie all thinges in heauen and in eartb iointlie with them both and therefore by excellencie of power propertie of nature and by full and perfect dominion ouer his owne creature he remitteth mans sinnos by the same soueraingne right that they do Who being thus in all excellencie equall with God hath notwithstanding vouchsafed of his singular bountifullnes ioined with maruelous humilitis to abase him-selfe to the receiuing of our nature in which now he hath wrought the same thinges in earth by seruice sute and commission which before he onelie did by might and maiestie of his owne power procure Euen the selfe same God that by will and commaundement might most iustly both haue punished and pardoned whome he list of loue and wisdome infinite continuing alwaies in like excellencie as before became the minister of our reconcilement to God In which state he offereth sacrifice as a Priest for sinne he vseth sacramentes for the remission of sinne he praied to God his Father for the sinnefull he is made the head of the Church the Gouernour of the Church and the iudge of the Church All which functions perteine to our Sauiour in respect and consideration of his humane nature according vnto which power is giuen him of the Father thorugh the holie Ghost to practise the same FVLKE THat the ignorant be not ouertaken with the subtiltie of this Sophister which to deriue his popish absolution from the perso of our sauiour Christ plaieth on while the Nestorian another while the Eutichian It shal be good for them to remember what they are taught in their Creed concerning the person of Christ which is verie God and verie man consisting of two moste diuers natures so vnited into one person as they maie neither be deuided nor confounded without horrible blasphemie In which person ech nature so retaineth the essentiall proprieties of it selfe vnconfounded or destroied that he is but one person our Lord and sauiour Iesus Christ. Whereupon it followeth that some actions arepeculiar to his godhead some proper to his manhood and some proceeding iointlie from him as he is God and man As God he worketh euen as his Father he knoweth the th oughts of mens heartes he knoweth the last daie whereof he is ignorant as man Againe that he did eate drinke sleepe sorrow die it was proper to his humanitie Finallie that he preached the Gospell wrought miracles offered sacrifice for our sinnes rose againe c. and such like thinges he did as the Mediatour God and man And although by reason of the vnitie of the person that is often spoken of the whole person which is peculiar to either nature or of God which is proper to man or of man which is proper to God yet to preserue the essentiall properties of ech nature we must wiselie distinguish that which is proper vnto the diuinitie from that which is proper vnto the humanitie whereof we see Master Allen hath small regard while he affirmeth that all these functions of Christ whereby he offereth sacrifice as a Priest vseth sacramentes praied to God is made the head of the Church the gouernour of the Church and the iudge of the Church pertaine vnto him in respect and consideration of his humane nature For of the sacrifice ofhim-selfe the Apostle expresselie affirmeth that it was made by his eternall spirit which being offered by an inferior nature could not haue beene acceptable vnto God Heb. 9. 14. Also that Christ God and man is the head of the Church and aduanced in his humanitie to be iudge of the worlde it is in respect and consideration ofhis godhead vnto which his humanitie is vnited For as he is the image of the inuisible God by whome all thinges are created in heauen and earth he is the head of his bodie the Church Col. 1. 15. c. And the Apostle Phil. 2. 10. shewing his exaltation from the base shape of a Seruant to be the most honorable iudge of the world vsing the words of the Prophet Esaie cap. 45. in which God challengeth the iudgement to him selfe sheweth plainelie that Christ hath this honour in respect
do principally concerne him The first is his writing which as shall appeare by this authors defense doth conuince him of grosse ignorance and that in verie common matters both of diuinitie and of Philosophie wherein it is well knowne that Campian was moste excellent But seeing the proofe of this conuiction resteth onely in the authors defense the discreete reader will suspend his iudgement vntill he see Master Charkes answere also In the meane time it will appeare by that which other men write in his defence likewise that all is not grosse ignorance which cauilling and malitious Papists seeking to deface him with a false accusation are disposed to impute vnto him As for Campians learning in these two sciences I may be as bold to saie it is well knowne that it was but vulgar and inferior to manie of his yeares and tyme of studie which you commend to be in the superlatiue degree of moste excellencye Some peece of his diuinity he shewed in the conference with in the tower of London His knowledge in Philosophie as it is not to be waighed in the controuersie of Religion which we haue in hand so it is not to be thought that he so far excelled therein but Oxford and Cambridge can aforde an hundreth Masters of Arte his iuniors in time at the lest way his equalls if not his betters therein That Master Charke outfaced him in the towre of London by reason of his high place gaie apparell great wordes assistance of friendes countenance of authoritie and applause of Protestantes standing by it is a poore excuse of Master Campians insufficiencie which though it was manifest to the wise and learned in euery of the former daies of conference yet in that last daie of Master Charkes encounter with him was apparant euen to the simple ignorant so that Campians impudencie wherein he chieflie excelied was so repressed at that time as euen in the opinion of euerie man albeit he was vanquished before yet now at last he seemed to be cleane ouerthrowne And this shamefull foile you would faine haue to be thought to haue happened vnto him as one ouermatched with M. Charkes highe place gaie apparell great wordes c. It is pittie your Champion was noe better armed aganst so weake arguments but did suffer him self to be outfaced with such friuolous reasons of place garmentes wordes countenance multitude verely they that knew his audacitie from a childe marueled to see him so greatlie daunted but that it pleased God that day to make him and all the papists in their foolish deuise of his impudent challenge ridiculous to al the world But if we maie examine these reasons by which he seemed to be so much outfaced what difference of place I praie you was there betweene the opponents and the respondent were not there stooles of equall height you would haue fooles imagine belike that Charke sat a loft in a throne seauen stepps higher then Campian or what meane you to prate of high place As for gay apparell men maie see Master Charke daielie how gorgeouslie he is araied so that he turneth the eies of all men vppon him which waie so euer he goeth or els Campian had smale cause to feare him for his gaie apparell In trueth his apparell was of colour blacke of matter wollen of making such as the common sorte of Ministers in London commonly do vse to weare But if Campian had bene stripped out of his rugge gowne whereunder his ruffianlike garments were hidde he would haue appeared in much gayer apparell for matter colour and fashion then Master Charke was euer seene to weare since he came into the ministerie Neuertheles his gowne could not hide his to spots hat which if not on that daie yet at all other times of the conference it is certaine was the same that was seene with the rest of his Iesuiticali robes when he ridde through Cheap-side towards the tower of London And therefore mee thinkes you neede not to haue spoken of Master Charkes gaie apparell But what were those greate words of his a foote and a halfe long at the lest that Master Campian might be outfaced with them They that were present could obserue no affectation os wordes but weight of matter that bare downe Campians courage especially when he was pressed to answere to syllogismes which as though no man but he could skill of at the first he did scornefully call for The assistance of friendes was a smale prerogatiue when they were onelie hearers and not helpers of his disputation The countenance of authoritie litle auaileth in conference where each partie by leaue of authoritie may saie what he can for his cause Last of all the applause of the Protestantes standing by was no cause of Campians outfacing but a consequent of his vnsufficient answering That vaine scoffe of Campians comming within the reach of Charkes ministeriall power and authoritie sauoreth of nothing but of proude follie and foolish malice For all men maie easilie know that when Campian was apprehended for mouing the Queenes subiects to sedition and committed to the tower for imagining and practising of high treason he was not within the reach of anie Ecclesiasticall persons power or authoritie much lesse of poore M. Charkes iurisdiction which is none at all further then by commission might be graunted to anie of the state ciuill or Ecclesiasticall to examine him or to conferre with him The second matter you haue to speake to Master Charks owne person is of his false dealing to deceaue wherin you graunt him principalitie not onely aboue Campian who had no talent at all therein but euen aboue the chiefe masters of his owne syde most expert in that facultie The terme of talent being taken out of the gospell and signifying some grace or gyfte of god how vngraciouslie it is abused not onely in this place for a facultie of false dealing but also by the auctor him-selfe asterward for a custome of rayling I wish the sober reader to obserue and to consider what religious affection these men beare to the doctrine of Christ that can finde no termes to play with all in their spitefull inuectiues but such as are shamefullie detorted and abused from the holy vse and phrases of the blessed scriptures As for the crime of false dealing let it appeare in Gods name by the tryall and examination of both the parties writings and rest where it shal be found to be practized In the meane time we must a litle consider of these examples here brought for a taste to shew his false dealings by Master setter forth First M. Charke inueigheth against the Censurer verie sharpely because he chargeth Luther with an opinion which he confesseth that sometimes he held and afterward recanteth concerning the licensing of wiues to lie with their neighbour when their husbands by naturall infirmitie were not hable to do their partes This say you seemeth a very reasonable defense where is then the false dealing Mary say you the words
be read of euerie man amonge you with your confutations And Doctor Windham then saide that no wise state would suffer it Neuerthe lesse our state God be thanked vpon conscience of trueth on our side hath with no lesse wisedome then good successe alwaies permitted your bookes with our answers to them to be read of all men to iudge indifferentlie so they conteine nothing but question of religion and not shamefull diffamations and inuectiues against the prince and the state of gouernement which matters deserue to be answered with an axe or an halter rather then with penne and paper But to permitte your bookes vnconfuted to haue free passage althoughe they passe with an hundred times lesse daunger then ours maie doe among you as you require it were neither wisedome godlines equitie nor reason AN OVERTHROVVE OF THE ANSVVERE TO Master Charkes preface touching Discerning of Spirites M. Chark beside the matter in question c. IF this answerer beside the matter in question had not made manie vnnecessarie and vnpertinent digressions the substance of his answere might haue bene contained almoste in as fewe lines as nowe it filleth leaues The triall of the Spirites which Saint Iohn requireth that is by the kinde of doctrine in teaching Christ and not the qualitie of the teachers Master Charke desireth the aduersaries refuse allowing nothing finallie but the onelie and falselie named title of the Catholike Church of Rome for them-selues and accusations of the persons some perhapes true some vtterlie false against vs. To this practize so manie popish treatises and this especiallie in hand doe giue testimonie This is the summe of Master Charkes preface Nowe commeth our answerer and because he had manie by-quarrels to deliuer he taketh occasion to vtter them in this place though litle or nothing pertaining to the direct confutation of Master Charkes preface First he chargeth Master Charke to saie that the Papists refuse Saint Iohns triall which is false for their bookes are extant wherebie they haue called to triall all sectaries of our time among whome he nameth Munster and Stancarus against whome I neuer heard what Papists haue exercised their style especiallie Stancarus holding one principle comming verie neare to their position of Christs priesthood to be onelie according to his manhood as Stancarus taught that Christ was a mediatour onelie after his humanitie but reade their bookes who shall and he must needes confesse Master Charkes saying to bee true For first or last they draw all triall to Rome and not to examine which doctrine giueth al glorie to God by Iesus Christ our onelie Sauiour which is the scope of Saint Iohns triall But if wee had not desired triall of Spirites saith he wee would not haue laboured so much to obteine the same of our aduersaries in free printing preaching or disputation You speake of great labor which none of vs euer heard that you tooke except it were in spreading a fewe coppies of Campians seditious libell not to the end of triall of spirites for discerning of trueth but to the stirring vp of mens bodies and mindes to treason and rebellion as the like labors by the like messengers tooke effect and make manifest demonstration in Ireland But if free printing preaching and disputation be a goodway for discerning of Spirites that Christ maie be knowne from Antichrist whie doe not you Papists graunt the same in Spaine Italie and other countreis thrall to the Popes tirannie yet assaulted by the doctrine of the gospell as by the power of Christ against Antichrist if it be not a good waie as it seemeth you thinke because you take it not your selues how can you saie that you require in those places this triall of spirites No no it is an other triall of the sharpest swordes that you meane when you require such triall of Spirites You adde further of the aduenturing of your liues in comming and offering the same to vs at home with so vnequall conditions on your side as you haue done and dailie doe for the triall of trueth There is no daunger of life among vs in offering the triall of Spirites according to Saint Iohns rule but in seeking to auerte the Queenes subiects from their duetifull obedience vnto her Maiestie to make a waie for the execution of the Popes moste blasphemous and traiterous Bull and this hath procured moste iuste and necessarie execution of some fewe of you and not as you slaunder iustice that offering to trie the truth hath obtained nothing hitherto but offence accusations extreame rackings and cruell death Againe these inequall conditions these daily offers these manie petitions and supplications that you speake of whoe hath made to whome haue they bene offered when were they presented where were they seene or heard by whome were they refused except Campians ridiculous challenge be all in all with you But what will a Papist spare to affirme that he maie make falsehood haue some likly shape of truth yet being admitted that you offer trial it must be seene whoe doe offer best meanes of triall And here you will endeuour to shew that all meanes of triall which Master Charke and his fellowes will seeme to allow in worde For they offer none in deede are neither sure possible nor euident but meere shifts to auoide all triall and that your selues do offer all the best and surest waies of triall that euer weere vsedin the Church for discerning an hereticall spirit from a Catholike Your indeuour is great but your abilitie is small for you shall neuer be able to demonstrate either the one or the other howsoeuer with vaine sophistications and wrested authorities you seeke to dasell the eies of the simple Let vs heare therefore howe you beginne The onelie meanes of triall you say which Master Charke will seeme to allowe is the scripture But this is a shift common to all heretikes especiallie of our time First you slaunder Master Charke in saying that he alloweth the scripture to be the onelie meanes of triall of spirites whereof he speaketh not at all in this preface but of triall of spirites by the doctrine of Christ which is moste plainlie and certenlie set forth in the holie scriptures and therefore by the holie scriptures the doctrine maie best and moste certenlie be tried and iudged But that Master Charke by referring him selfe to the holie scriptures onelie as suffiââân and ââle to decide all controuersies of Religion doth denie or exclude all other meanes of ãâã whereby the true meaning of the scripture may be knowne it is impâdent he affirmed without either proofe or likelihood of truth as hereafter more plainlie will appeare Saint Augustine as though he were an enimie of conââââing heresies by the authoritie of the scriptures onelie is quoted in the margent de nupt Concup lib 2. cap. 31 whose words are these Non est miââam si Pelagiani dicta nostra in sensus ãâã volunt detoâquere conaâtur quando de scripturis sanctis non vbi obscurè
aliquid dictum est sed vbi clara ââaperta sune testimonia id facere consueuerunt more quiaââ haereâicorum etiam caetârorum It is no maruel if the Pelagians endeuor to wrest our sayings into what senses they will when they are accustomed to do the same by the holie scriptures not where any thing is spoken darkely but where the testimonies are cleere and manifest after the manner indeede of the rest of heretikes These wordes of Saint Augustine doe as aptelie agree to the Papists as though they had bene by name vttered against them as in that which followeth you shall see verified in this Papist whoe both wresteth out sayings to such sense as himselfe pleaseth and also the holie scriptures themselues where they are most plaine and euident against him a right pranek of olde herenkes Note also by the waie that the scripture by Saint Augustines iudgement containeth most cleere and euident testimonies which though they be neuer so much wrested of herenkes yet in the conscience of all that loue the truth they doe manifestlie deliuer true doctrine and confute false and therefore be not as a nose of wax or a leaden rule by which no certentie maie be found or anie sure triall had by them as the Papists doe blaspheme The next quotation l. 3. cont Donat. ca. 15. is vncertaine because of diuerse treatises that S. Augustine did write against the Donatists but I gesse he meaneth his booke de Baptismo contra Donatistas where yet is nothing to his purpose or to anie purpose in hand but that the scripture of the Gospell If it be wholl is the same although it be alleadged by innumerable heretikes according to the diversitie of euerie one of their opinions and so Baptisme ministred by heretikes according to the institution of Christ is the same what opinion soever the heretikes haue of the wordes by which it is consecrated and ministred He saith also that the snares of heretikes and schismatikes are therefore very pernicious to carnal men because their proâting in knowledge is shut from them their sentence of vanitie being confirmed against the Catholike trueth and their sentence of dissention being conâââmed agâinâ the catholike peace These things are true of obstinate heretikes and consequentlie of Papists but they make nothing against Master Chark or for the triall of spirits which is the question now debated betweene him his aduersarie But that the scriptures are sufficient to beate downe al heresies and to reach all trueth necessarie to saluation and the onelie sure and certaine triall whereby all doctrine is to be examined and adiudged the same Augustine doth plentifullie and in manie places of his workes declare and euen in that same worke de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. Cap. 2. de vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2 3. 16. de nup. conc lib. 2. cap. 29. de peccat merit remiss lib. 3. cap. 7. de natura gratia cap. 60. c. Three causes there be saith our answerer of appealing onelie to scripture The first to get credit with the people by naming of scripture to seeme to honor it more then their aduersaries doe by referring the wholl triall of matters vnto it To winne credit by cleauing to the authoritie of God expressed in his holie word written and to honor it by acknowledging the sufficiencie thereof for the triall of all matters of religion that maie comme in controuersie is no shift of heretikes or new teachers but the auncient practize of the best and most approoued Catholikes To pretend these things in shew and not to accomplish them in deed is the guise of hypocrites what religion soeuet they would seeme to mantaine The second cause saith he is by excluding Councells fathers and aunciters of the Church whoe from time to time haue declared the true sexse of scripture vnto vs to reserue vnto them selues libertie and authoritie to make what meaning of scripture they please and thereby to giue colour to euerie fansie they list to teach But Master Charke and his fellowes giuing the soueraigne authoritie to the onely scriptures do not at all exclude councells fathers and aunciters of the Church except it be in case where they teach contrarie to the manifest scriptures of god which doe either in expresse and plaine wordes or els by moste easie and necessarie conclusion deliuer vnto the Church all things needefull to be credited and knowne vnto eternall life as both the Apostle testifieth 2. Timoth. 3. and S. Augustine a worthie Father auncient of the Church consenteth Ep. III. Fortunatiano Neque enim quorumlibet disputationes quamuis CatholicoruÌ laudatorum hominum velut scripturas canonicas habere debemus vt nobis nonliceat salua honorificentia quae illis dcbetur hominibus aliquid in eorum scriptis improbare atque respuere si fortè inuenerimus quòdaliter senserint quà m veritas habet diuino adiutorio vel ab aliis intellecta vel à nobis Talis ego sum in scriptis aliorum tales volo esse intellectores meorum Denique in his omnibus quae de opusculis sanctorum atque doctorum commemoraui Ambrosij Hyeronimi Athanasij Gregorij siqua alioruÌ talia ita legere potui For we ought not to accompt the disputations of all men although they be catholike praise worthie as the Canonicall scriptures that it should not be lawful for vs sauing the reuerence which is due to these men to disalow and reiect something in their writings if perhaps we haue found out that they haue thought otherwise then the truth is of things by gods helpe either vnderstood of others or of our selues Such one am I in the writings of other men such would I haue other men to be vnderstanders of my writings Finallie in all these which I haue rehearsed out of the workes of holie and learned men Ambros Hicrott Athanasius Gregorie Andif I could so reade any like of other mens writings c. Also Ep. 112. Pauline ãâã scripturarum earum scilicet quae canonicae in Ecclesia nominantur perspicua firmatur authoritate fine vlla dubitatione credendum est Aliis verò testibus vel testimoniis quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi credere vel non credere liceat quantum meriti ea admonentem ad faciendam fidem vel habere vel non habere perpenderis What sceuer is confirmed by the plaine cleare authoritie of the holie scriptures of those truelie which are called in the Church canonicall without all doubt is to be beleeued But other witnesses or testimonies by which anie thing is counselled to be beleeued it is lawfull for thee to beleeue or not according as thou shale waigh what worthines he that counselleth those things hath to cause credit or els hath not Againe De doctrina christiana lib. 3. cap. 6. Magnificè salubriter spiritus sanctus ita scripturas sanctas modificauit vt locis apertioribus fami occurreret obscurioribus autem
fastidia detergeret Nihil enim fere de illis obscuritatibus eruitur quod non planissimè dictum alibi reperiatur The holie ghost hath magnifically and wholsomlie so tempered the holy scriptures that with euident places he might satisfie hunger and with more darke places might wipe awaie disdainfulnes For nothing almoste is found out of those obscurities which is not found els where most plainlie vttered It were no hard matter to heape vp manie testimonies of the auncient fathers to this purpose but that the va nitie of this answerer appeereth sufficientlie in all our bookes written against the papists in which not onely by the manifest places of the scriptures but also by most euident testimonies of the doctors of the church we confute them in the most and greatest matters of controuersie that ate betweene vs. But what saith our gallant answerer that the councels fathers and anciters of theChurch haue from time to timedeclared the true sense of the scriptures vnto vs hath none of these at any time erred in expounding the scriptures may we safely beleeue them whatsoeuer they say He wil I warrant you deny it except the Pope of Rome do alow their interpretations And therfore this flying from the only scriptures to the interpretation of Coun cels fathers ancetors of the Church is nothing els but an impudent shift to reserue vnto the Pope liberty authority to make what meaning of scripture they please thereby to giue colour to euery fansie they list to father it vpon the authority of the holie scriptures The third cause he affirmeth to be that by chalenging of onely scripture they maie deliuer themselues from all ordinan ces or doctrines left vnto vs by the first pillers of Christs Church though not expressely set down in the scripture c. In deede to deliuer our selues from the burthen of mens traditions the ordinances or doctrines of men we affirme the holie scriptures to be hable and sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation by faith in Iesus Christ as the Apostles and principall pillers of the Church haue taught vs who haue left no such ordinances or doctrines but they be either expressely set down in the holy scriptures or by plaine and necessarie collection to be gathered out of the same For how will our aduersaries prooue that anie thing is receaued from the Apostles which hath not testimonie out of the writings of the Apostles who can be a sufficient witnes of such de liuerie seeing manie things were of olde referred to the Apostles tradition which euen our aduersaries do not admit to be Apostolical seeing the most auncient and immediate successors of the Apostles as Polyearpus Anicetus can not agree about a ceremony receaued from the Apostles namelie the celebration of Easter what certentie can there be of anie other ordinances or doctines fathered vpon the Apostles without witnes of their writings yea and some times directlie contrarie and repugnant to their writings But hereof saith our aduersarie they assume authoritie of allowing or not allowing whatsoeuer liketh or serueth their turnes for the time and hereof he bringeth example First of the number of sacraments whereof some protestants haue written diuerslie because the name of sacrament is diuerslie taken sometimes largelie for euerie holie signe sometimes strictlie for such holie signes onely as being instituted of God are seales of the dispensation of his generall grace in the new teftament perteining to euerie member of the Church somtimes for al holy mysteries or secrets c. But what doth it serue anie protestants turne whether there be more or fewer signes in number that maie be called sacraments seeing all protestants agree about the things themselues that are set forth in the scriptures to be visible signes of grace inuisible and the name it selfe Sacrament in that sense we speake of when we saie there are 2. 3. 4. or 7. sacraments is not once vsed This diuersitie therefore is but of a terme and that not vsed in scripture therefore it ariseth not of anie interpretation or peruerse vnderstanding of the scripture as our answerer would haue it seeme to be But let vs heare his example Martin Luther saith he after he had denied all testimonie of man besides himselfe he beginneth thus about the number of sacraments Principiò neganda mihisunt septem sacramenta tantúm tria pro tempore ponenda First of all I must denie seauen sacraments and appoint three for the time Marie this time lasted not long for in the same place he saith that if he would speake according to the vse of onely scripture he hath but one sacrament for vs that is baptisme In this sentence how manie lies and slaunders be packed together First he saith Martin Luther denieth all testimonie of man which is false for he alloweth all testimonie of man that agreeth with the testimonie of God expressed in the scriptures and often citeth the testimonies of the auncient fathers for confirmation of the trueth which he taught indeede he alloweth man no authoritie to institute sacraments or to make articles of faith or lawes to binde the conscience of man and he would haue all mans testimonies to be examined and iudged according to the word of God but this is not to denie all testimonie of man but to distinguish true testimonies of man from false An other slaunder is where he saith that Luther in denying all mans testimonie excepteth him selfe which is altogether vntrue For he requireth none other credit to be giuen to his owne testimonie then he alloweth to the testimonie of other Neither doth he arrogate any authoritie to him selfe which he derogateth from other men And namelie in this booke of the captiuitie of Babilon he taketh not vpon him absolutelie to teach euerie point but so farr forth as he did for the present vnderstand of them promising after greater study more diligent inquirie to intreat of diuers of them more certenly euen in this verie place of the number of the sacraments he saith he will admit three onclie for the present time intending to be further a duised whether there be fewer or more to be entituled with that name Wherein our answerer offereth him the third iniurie in translating tria pro tempore ponenda I must appoint three for the time as though Luther had taken vpon him to appoint how manie sacraments the Church should haue or would challenge power to appoint more or Jesse at his pleasure where as his wordes if the answerer did not wilfullie corrupt them by false translation do import no such thing but onelie as farr as he did presentlie see there were no more but three of those that were commonlie called sacraments of the new testament which were rightlie to be called by that name The fourth slaunder is that Luther hath but one sacrament for vs which is Baptisme if he would speake according to the vse of onelie scripture yea this is a double slaunder for neither doth
Luther say that he hath but one sacrament for vs in that mea ning of the word sacrament in which he is charged by the cauiller to alter his opinion so shortlie but in an other meaning neither doth he saie that this one sacrament is haptisme in which I can but wonder at the impudency of this fellow that forgeth this last lie in his owne braine without all colour or shew of Luthers words as though Luther would allow no sacrament of the Church but Baptisme The wordes of Luther are these of the number of sacraments After he hath denied the number of seauen admitted for the present but three namely Baptisme penance the supper all which he affirmeth by the court of Rome to be brought into miserable captiuitie and the Church spoiled of all her libertie he addeth Quanquam si vsu scripturae loqui velim non nisi'vnum sacramentum habeam tria signa sacrament alia de quo latiùs suo tempore Although if I would speake after the vse of scripture I haue but one sacrament and three sacramentall signes whereof more at large in due time This one sacrament whereof he speaketh is the holie mysterie or secret of our redemption or saluation by Iesus Christ of which the other that are commonlie called sacraments are holie and mysticall signes so that herein he changeth no opinion of the thing but onelie speaketh of the diuerse taking of the worde Well yet will our a duersarie replie he alloweth three sacraments so doth the confession of Auspurge Melancthon fowre and Caluine two and all this by onelie scripture I haue shewed before sufficientlie that this question of the number of those signes that maie be called sacraments properlie or vnproperlie generallie or speciallie is not determinable by the holie scriptures because this name of sacrament is not found in them Those holie mysteries which by externall elements do testifie the inuisible grace of God workeing in vs vnto our saluation by regeneration and preseruation are plainlie set forth in the scripture Baptisme and the Lords supper without naming them sacraments which comprehend that whol mysterie of our saluation which Luther calleth the onelie sacrament by the vse of the scripture according to which explication of the word sacrament there are but two so rightlie properlie and speciallie to be termed according to the auncient vsage of the Latine Church and no more acknowledged by anie protestant of sound religion For Luther his enemies shall testifie which were appointed to gather out of his writings whatsoeuer they thought to be erroneous to be obiected against him this is their Censure Negat septem esse sacramenta sed tantùm tria pro tempore ponenda baptismum poenitentiam panem Immo non nisi vnum esse sacramentum tria figna sacramentalia Duo tamen in Ecclesia Dei esse sacramenta baptismum panem He denieth say the collectors that there are seauen sacraments but that three onelie for the time are to be admitted baptisme penance and the breade nay rather that there is but one sacrament and three sacramentall signes neuertheles there are two sacraments in the Church of God baptisme and the bread Luthers iudgement thus appearing by the confestion of his owne aduersaries that as baptisme and the supper are called sacraments there are no more that rightlie and properlie can beare that name The confession of Auspurge and Melancthon which as our answerer saith pretend and professe to follow Luther in all things can haue none other meaning in this matter of the number of the sacraments of the new testament And Melancthon expressely discoursing of the term sacrament sheweth how diuerslie it maie be taken to comprehend two three or fowre And in the last edition of his common places where he answereth the articles of the Bauaricall inquisition he holdeth but two properlie to be called sacraments as Luther before him in his Catechisme the greater and the lesser Wherefore this friuolous cauill is thus easilie discussed to the shame of the cauiller and to the attestation of our consent in the matter and substance of trueth The like brable of wordes he maketh of the title of heade of the Church which Caluine and the Magdeburgeans doe mislike and Caluine in King Henrie found to be Antichristian but Caluines folowers in England do finde by onelie scripure to be moste Christian. Where all the dissention is in the terme which being rightlie vnderstood as by law it hath bene confirmed vnto the Prince conteineth no other authoritie then Caluine and all other professors of the Gospell do acknowledge to pertaine vnto the Christian magistrate and is prooued to be moste Christian not onelie by scripture but also by testimonie of the moste auncient and Catholike Fathers of the Church as it were easie to shew but that it is here no place to decide these controuersies The title of supreme head of the Church graunted to King Henrie Caluine saieth was blaspheomus not as it was vnderstoode of the godlie at that time but as it was applied by Stephen Gardiner who in a conference at Ratisbone cared not much for the testimonies of the scripture but said it was in the Kings power to abrogate decrees and to institute new ceremonies as to appoint daies of fasting abstinence from flesh c. And not staying there he proceeded further to affirme that it was lawfull for the King to forbid mariage vnto Priests to forbid the laie people to drinke of the cup in the Lords supper and generallie to commaund or for bid in his kingdome what he would because he had soueraigne authoritie This authoritie or the title in this sense neither our princes do accept neither doth anie godlie man allow vnto them A third example he bringeth of burning of heretikes wherein he saith The Protestants a greate while by onelie scripture defended against the Catholikes that no heretikes might be burned or put to death whereof large bookes are written on both partes Now they haue found by euident scripture that they maie be burned As though there were not controuersies enow betweene the Papists and the Protestants this man will needes make more as this of putting blasphemous heretikes to death which was neuer denied the scripture of stoning blasphemers false Prophets and Idolaters being so manifest A. nabaptists indeede and such like sectaries are lothe that heretikes should be punished with death But there hath bone long bookes saith he written thereof on both partes If you aske him by whome he biddeth you in the margent looke Eckius in Encher and Luther contra Latom. de incendiariis Would you not thinke this follow had read these treatises for burning of heretikes pro contra whereunto he sendeth vs to iustifie his saying of large bookes written on both partes but in truth he either neuer saw the bookes or els he is the moste impudent forger that euer was heard of for Fckius in his litle booke called Encheridion loco 27. de hereticis Comburendis
which is but a short section or Chap er doth not charge Luther with this opinion of heretikes not to be burned but the Donatists whose fansie is renewed againe in the Anabaptists and Libertines As for Luther Contra Latomum deincendiariis handleth not this controuersie at all but onelie expostulateth with the deuines of Louane which burned his bookes without examination or Conuiction of them out of the word of God Manie men haue complained and that moste iustlie of the crueltie of the Papists in burning as heretikes the true saints martyrs and members of the Church whose faith and religion they were neuer hable to conuince of heresie by the authoritie of gods word But that no blasphemer or obstinate heretike maintaining blasphemie against the expresse and manifest trueth of God is to be punished by death I am persuaded he can bring no booke or author of any accompt that so holdeth Fourthlie he addeth that Luther by onelie scripture found the sacramentaries to be heretikes D. Fulk by the same scripture findeth that both parties are good Catholikes But as Luther erred in his opinion of the sacrament so he was ouer rash in condemning those whome he calleth sacramentaries neuerthelesse seing he erred of ignorance and inconsiderate zeale he hath found mercie with God and is not to be adiudged as a blasphemous heretike For neither the error he maintained is blasphemie in it selfe neither did he hold it contrarie to his knowledge but as he was ignorantlie persuaded with zeale of trueth though deceiued with error How Doctor Fulke prooueth this not onelie by scripture but also by example of auncient fathers erring in like cases and yet not to be condemned for heretikes you maie reade in the place by this answerer quoted and in his confutation of Popish quarrels His last example is of manie things which Master Whitgift doth defend against Thomas Cartwright to be lawfull by scripture as Bishops Dcanes Archdeacons officialls holy daies and an hundreth more which in Geneua are holden to be flat conirarie to the scripture There are manie things lawfull by scripture which yet are not necessarie to be vsed The forme of external gouernment and discipline of the Church is not so expreslie set downe in holie scriptures but that euetie particulare Church hath libertie and must of necessitie appoint manie things for order decencie and gouernment which are not in expresse termes conteined in the scriptures euen as god shall giue them grace to see what is moste expedient according to the difference of times places and persons for the building vp of the Church in trueth and loue Wherefore although the Church of Geneua in the forme of outward regiment rites and discipline differing from the Church of England do not vse the same things that we do yet it followeth not that they holde them to be flat contrarie to the scripture neither is our answerer hable soundlie to prooue that he doth so boldlie asseuere To proceede he telleth vs what aduantage herctikes haue by onelie scripture they make them-selues therebie iudges of Doctors Councels histories presidentes cusiomes prescriptions yea of the bookes of scripture sense it selfe reseruing al interpretation to them-selues But this is nothing so for howsoeuerheretikes take vppon them to control al things according to their fantasie yet haue they noe aduantage by onelie scripture but therebie maie be are confounded when they come to examination tri all And as for the professors of the Gospell which acknowledge the scriprure to be sufficiente to teach all thinges needful to be knownevnto saluation although they are by god him selfe made Iudges of the spirits of al men by exacting them vnto the trial of the word of god which is the onelie certaine rule of truth yet doe they not by priuate authoritie iudge of Councells doctors fathers customs c. But by that charge which is laide vpon them to iudge coÌdemne euen the Angels from heauen if they should bring anie other Gospell then that which the Apostles haue preached without al arrogancie or insolencie against the Angels Councels Doctors Fathers whatsoeuer but in giuing god the glorie to be onely true al men to be liers no Angel to be credited except they speake by the spirite of God of whose speach we haue no certaine demonstration but in the holie scriptures whatsoeuer is agreeable vnto them The discerning of the bookes of scripture of the true sense of them is also committed vnto the Church the faithful members thereof that doutful bookes be iudged by those that without doubt are indited by the holy ghost deliuered to the Church by faithfull witnesses instruments of the holy ghost to be of soueraigne and perpetual authority in the Church and so are knowne and taken of the true Church from time to time in such sorte that although the same truth maie be found in other bookes yet as Saint Augustine saith they are not of the same authoritie because there is not such certentie of trueth As for the sense and interpretation of the holie scriptures it must be taken out of the scriptures them-selues which are alwaies the best and surest interpretation of them-selues in all points necessarie to be knowne with the aide of the gift of tongues the gift of knowledge the gift of interpretation in them that haue labored in finding out the sense thereof according to the analogie of faith which is comprehended in the scriptures and that in places so plaine and euident as they neede no interpretation and therefore cannot be wrested by damnable heretikes without great impudencie and against their owne conscience for which cause Saint Paul willeth an heretike after the first second admonition to be auoided as one who though he will not acknowledge the truth yet he is condemned in his owne conscience and sinneth vnto eternall damnation Wherefore Councells Fathers Doctors customs examples are by vs admitted but not hand ouer head without distinction but such so farre forth as they be true and faithful interpreters of the scripture by matters and places plaine certenly knowne opening matters places obscure and vnknowne Which is the office of an expounder not to determine by his owne authority of anothers meaning whereof as among men euetie man is the best in terpreter of his owne so is the holy ghost of him-selfe in the scriptures by him inspired of whose meaning where they be hard to be vnderstood no man can be certaine but either by his own plaine wordes or by plaine necessary conclusion out of his plaine words Now touching the Papists whome our answerer saith to be restrained from chopping and changing affirming and denying at their pleasures because they binde them-selues to other things beside the scriptures to which they giue souereigne authoritie as to councells auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primatiue Church with the like the matter is farre otherwise For whatsoeuer they prate of the soueraigntie of
conscience of men to sanctifie them by their worke whome Christ by his onelie oblation hath made perfect for euer They that holde these points denie Christ to be a perfect Prophet King and Priest But these be deepe mysteries of puritanisme saith the answerer Christ is a Prophet alone a King alone a Priest alone the ouerthrow of all gouernment No sir no to acknowledge Christe to be our onelie Prophet king and priest ouerthroweth not but establisheth all power that is ordeined vnder him to teach gouerne and sanctifie The scripture in deede Eph. 4. Acts. 5. doth allowe Prophets and teachers in the Church but not authors of new doctrine no makers of new articles of faith no traditions beside the Gospell of Christ which is written that we might beleeue and beleeuing haue eternall life in his name The scripture alloweth Kinges and rulers 1. Pet. 2. Act. 2. but the scripture giueth no authoritie to any king or ruler to dispense against the lawes of God nor to any Prophet or priest to discharge subiects of their oth made to their lawfull Prince to binde the conscience of man with new constitutions as necessarie to saluation c. But whereas you aske whether Priests may not sanctifie by the word of god 2. Tim. 4. you are neare driuen for proofes For to omitte that the Chapter you quote hath neuer a word either of priests or sanctifying and to take your meaning to be of 1. Tim. 4. verse 5. the Apostle speaketh not of the Priest or ecclesiasticall ministers power of sanctifying but of euerie Christian man and woman to whome euerie creature of God in the right vse thereof is sanctified by the word of God and praier and against them that forbid thinges consecrated and allowed by God as matrimonie and meates sanctifyed by his worde that hath giuen them to be receiued with thankesgiuing and by the praier of the thankefull receiuer as a mean to obtaine sanctification from God whoe onelie is holie and therefore hath onelie power properlie to sanctifie and to inioyne as more holie by their owne making and not by Gods sanctification virginitie then matrimonie fish then flesh yca take vpon them to sanctifie Gods creatures in an other vse then God hath appointed them as water fire garments boughs flowers bread and such like for religion and sanctifying of Christian men Againe he asketh what doe the traditions of Christ and his Apostles for of those onelie they talke when they compare them with scripture impeach the teaching of Christ and his Apostles I answere there are no traditions of Christ and his Apostles pertaining to a Christian mans dutie to obtaine erernall life but those that be comprehended in the holie scriptures as the spirite of God in the scripture which cannot lie doth testifie And therefore they are the traditions of men and not of Christ and his Apostles that areso called vnder which title all heresies fansies may be brought in without testimonie of the written worde of God Wherefore such traditions doe greatlie impeach the office of Christes teaching reproouing his Apostles and Euangelists of imperfection if they haue not comprehended the summe of all that Christ taught and did for our saluation which Saint Luke in the beginning of his Gospell doth professe that he hath done and that verie exactlie And further it is false that our answerer saith they talke of the traditions of Christ and his Apostles onelie when they compare them with scripture For they compare the decrees of their Pope and of their generall councells allowed by him to be of equall authoritie with the holie scriptures as well as traditions Secondlie he asketh what doth the spiritual authorttie of the Pope vnder Christ diminish the Kinglie power and authoritie of Christ I answere the Pope hath no spirituall authoritie vnder Christ by anie graunt of Christ but he vsurpeth authoritie aboue Christ when he will controll the lawes and institutions of Christ as denying the cuppe of blessing vnto the laie people and in taking vpon him to make newe lawes and to inioyne men to obserue them in paine of damnation as be his lawes of abstinence from mariage and meates for religions sake which Christ hath left free for all men euen for Bishops Priests and Deacons of the Church and in an hundred matters beside Last of all he asketh How doth the priesthood of men as from Christ or the sacrifice of the altar instituted by Christ disgrace Christs priesthood or his sufficient sacrifice once for all offered on the crosse I answere the priesthood of reconciling by sacrifice doth not passe from Christ to anie man because he hath by one sacrifice made perfect for euer all that are sanctifyed and liueth for euer to make intercession for vs therefore hath as the Apostle saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã a priesthood that passeth not to any other in succession as Arons priesthood did whereby he is able to saue for euer those that come vnto God by hym Againe I denie that Christ did institute that sacrifice of the altar whereof there is no worde in all the scripture and therefore a new priesthood and a new sacrifice must needes be blaspemous against the eternal priesthood of Christ and that one sufficient sacrifice which he offered and therebie found eternall redemption The texts alledged by Master Charke Heb. 7. 9. he saith doe not impeach this dailie sacrifice of theirs because they graunt that sacrifice once offered c. in that manner as it was then done meaning bloodelie whereas they offer it vnbloodelie c. But the wholl discourse of the Aposile throughout the wholl epistle almoste excludeth all repetition of that sacrifice in any manner For therepetition of the same sacrifice should argue imperfection in it as it did in the Iewish sacrifices and without shedding of blood there is noremission of sinnes Is Christ shoulde be often offered he should often suffer All which being impossible it remaineth that as Christ offered himselfe but once and not often so no man hath authoritie or power to offer him anie more neither is there anie neede he should be more then once offered seing by that one oblation he hath made perfect for euer all that are sanctified and hath found eternall redemption for all that beleeue in him But for proofe that there must be such a daylie sacrifice in the Church vntill the end of the world he alledgeiu the prophecie of Daniell 12. Malachie 1. whereas Daniell speaketh of the dailie sacrifice of the Lawe which should cease in the persecution of Antiochus and be vtterly abolished by the death of Christ. And Malachic of the sacrifice of praise and thankesgeuing which by all nations is offered as a pure sacrifice and acceptable to him through Christ. The former exposition is allowed by S. Ierome to be verified of Antiochus in a type of Antichrist whoe shall forbid culium Dei the worship of God which doth not require any such
diuine contemplation by those praiers that are sent vp vnto him Thus much Eusebius of the sacrifice of Christians As for Theophylact in the place by him quoted wherein either his Printer or his note booke hath deceiued him hath nothing touching this matter in question but vpon the 10. Chapter he hath the verie words of Chrisostome which I haue sette downe at large before Suboritur hîc quaestio c. Here riseth a question whether we also do offer vnbloodie sacrifice whereto I answere that we do certainlie but we keepe a memorie of the Lords death and it is one sacrifice and not mante seeing he was offered vp once for all For we offer vp the same alwaies but rather we keepe the memorie of that oblation wherein he offered him felfe as if it were done euen now Thus none of the auncient writers to whome he doth referre the reader for defence of his Popish sacrifice do speake anie thing for it and some of them do write directlie against it And now the answerer thinketh he might haue ended his preface but that he promised to shew that they offer most reasonable meanes of triall and that we in deede admit none at all Of both these partes we haue spoken alreadie sufficientlie to the conscience of all reasonable men yet must we further answere to such matters as he can obiect against vs. And first he saith All the controuersie being not of the words but of the sense of the scriptures we admit no Iudge but our selues To this I answere first that all the controuersie is not about the sense onelie but some about the wordes also where we alledge the interpretation of them out of the originall tongues and they wil admit none but the vulgar translation which in manie places is false in some places also corrupted from the integritie in which it was first written Secondlie that we admit no Iudge of it but our selues it is false of vs and true of them For they admit no interpretation of the scripture but that which their Church alloweth which alloweth nothing but that the present Pope alloweth whome they make Iudge of all interpretation and to whose Iudgement they will all stand Conttariewise we take vpon vs no iudgement but that which is common to all men by reason and learning to waigh all thinges that are brought vnto vs the cheife Iudge or rule to Iudge by being the holie scriptures in places of them selues euident and confessed or to be confessed by right reason of all that acknowledge the authoritie of the scriptures by them to finde out the obscurities of such places as are hard and haue neede of interpretation But if they bring scripture saith he neuer so plaine yet will we shift it of with some impertinent interpretation whereof he bringeth two or three examples in which you shall plainlie see how like a Papist he handleth him-selfe in all kinde offalshood and treacherie The first example is this The moste of the auncient fathers write bookes in praise of virginitie aboue wedlock and vsed to prooue it by the saying of Christ There be Eunuches which haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen he that can take it let him take it Also by the words of Saint Paul he that ioyneth his virgine in mariage doth wel and he that ioyneth her not doth better Which words being alledged against M. Luther who preferred marriage yea though it were of a vowed Nunne before virginitie he answered it thus That Christ by his words terrified men from virginitie and continencie and Saint Paul by this speech did disswade them from the same Now what could be replied saith he in this case trow you He beginneth with a lie and so he holdeth on For the moste of the auncient fathers haue not written bookes in praise of virginity aboue wedlock neither is he able to prooue that the one halfe of them haue wri ten bookes of that argument although manie of them haue in their writings mentioned that comparison Secondlie in the state of the controuersie he offereth vs shamefull iniurie for we all confesse that in the respects named by our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles virginitie is better then marriage in such persons as haue the gist of continencie but not in all respects and namelie not in such respectes as the Papists do preferre it of merite for them-selues and others c. nor in persons that lack that rare gift of continencie For neither Christ nor Saint Paul do saie that virginitie meriteth more then mariage or the profession of virginitie in all men though they haue not the gift of continencie is better then a chaste life in holie matrimonie Wherefore that which we affirme against the Papists is against that which they affirme more then Christ or S. Paull spake and is more then by anie lawfull demonstration can be prooued out of their words Thirdlie in rehearsing the text against the plainnes whereof he bringeth Luthers interpretation he fraudulentlie leaueth out those wordes whereupon the exposition of Luther is grounded namely these words non omnes capiunt c. All men are not capable of this saying but they to whome it is giuen If you aske of what saying the text is plaine his disciples said vnto him If the cause of aman and his wife be so that he may not be diuorced but for adulterie it is not expedient to marrie but all men saith Christ doe not receiue or cannot take this saying For there be three kindes of Eunuches or gelded men the third onelie being voluntarie and for an excellent end is commendable so it be giuen vnto him that he maie take it He that can take it let him take it Is it not euident by this text that Christ terrifieth all such men from this high attempt to whome it is not giuen and exhorteth them onlie which haue the gift to vse it Now to come to Luthers interpretation First he saieth that Luther preferreth Marriage before virginitie yea though it were of a vowed Nunne This as it is simplie set downe is a lowd lie for Luther acknowledgeth the preferment of virginitie before mariage in persons hauing the gift and for the end and respects by Christ and Saint Paull named as by his owne wordes in diuerse places of his workes is manifest and most plainlie Exege ad Cap. 7. Ep. ad Cor. 1. Nam sicubi coniugium quis cum coelibatu conferat praestantius certè donum est coelibatus For if a man compare mariage with virginitie virginitie verilie is a better gift Concerning the mariage of a vowed Nunne if she haue the gift of continencie and will renounce the superstitious and blasphemous end for which she vowed virginitie and vse it to the glorie of God you shall heare Luthers iudgement Nec ideo caelibatum virginitatem reprobare mihi ãâã est nec inde quenquam ad iugale vinculum inuitare quisque pro dono suo diuinitus impartito vt potest feratur For
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and ãâã all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
them peaceablie she was declared to be iust or iustified in the sight of men Therefore there are two kindes of iustification the one by faith before god the other by works before men therefore a man is not iustified by faith only but by works also which saying of S. Iamesis not repugnant to that we holde that a man is iustified before god sola fide by faith alone or by faith without the workes of the lawe as S. Paule saieth which is alone which comprehendeth al good works as also the examples of Abraham and Dauid in the 4. Chapter to the Romanes doc plainelie declare where the Apostle speaketh expreslely of circumcisioÌ which was a worke of obedience following the faith of Abraham And Dauid pronounceth the blessednes of a man to whome the Lord imputeth righteousnes without workes which must needes be vnderstood euen of workes following faith because Dauid speaketh of himselfe and of all men generallie that shall obtaine blessednes by the grace of god without merite of workes For to him that worketh reward is not imputed according to grace but according to debt Againe the Apostle writing to the Galathians which were faithful speaketh generally It is manifest that by the lawe no man is iustified before god for the iust shal liue by faith By which texts many more the conclusion is moste necessarie that before God workes following faith doe not iuslifie but faith alone without workes yet not a dead but a liuing faith which worketh by loue Further he saith they haue expresselie for absolution whose sinnes ye forgiue are forgiuen whose sinnes ye retaine are retained Iohn 20. but we haue no where that Priests cannot forgiue or retaine sinnes in earth But the controuersie is not whether the Ministers of God haue power to forgiue or retaine sinnes for we beleeue that they haue such power but whether absolute power properlie to forgiue sinnes and how the same is to be exercised is the question For we beleeue that God onelie hath power absolutelie properlie to remit sinnes according to the scripture man by declaring Gods will pleasure Yet againe they haue expresselie The doers of the lawe shall be iustified Rom. 2. And we saie euen as much but because none is found a doer of the lawe we saie with the same Apostle that it is manifest that no man is iustified before God by the lawe But our answerer inferreth moreouer that we haue no where that the law required at Christians hands is impossible or that the doing therof iustifieth not Christians yes we haue it expressely That which was impossible of the law in as much as it was weake by the flesh God sending his sonne in the similitude of sinfull flesh c. If there had beene a lawe giuen that had bene able to giue life righteousnes in deede had bene of the lawe but the scripture hath concluded all vnder sinne that the promis by the faith of Iesus Christ might be giuen to them that belecue Againe by the workes of the lawe no flesh shal be iustified before him therefore no Christians by the workes of the lawe shal be iustified before him Moreouer we are saued by grace through faith not of workes Ergo Christians for none els are saued are iustified through faith without workes Yet againe they haue expresselie Psal. 75. Vowe ye and render your vowes we haut no where vowe ye not or if you haue vowed breake your vowes we confesse the Prophet willeth the people to vowe yet he meaneth onelie thinges lawfull and in their power to performe we bid no man to breake his vowe if it be lawful and possible but if he haue vowed to goe a pilgrimage which is Idolatrie or to liue vnmaried which is not able to liue continentlie we exhort him to repent of his wicked or vnaduised vowe to serue God as he hath appointed or to vse the remedie that God hath prouided They haue againe expreslie Keepe the traditions which ye haue learned either by worde or epistle 2. Thess. 2. we haue no where the Apostles left noe traditions to the Church vnwritten Saint Paull willeth the Thessalonians to keepe the traditions or doctrine which he had deliuered vnto them either by word of mouth or by his epistle This prooueth not that the Apostles left any traditions which are no where written in the holie scripture because they were not all written in the epistle of Saint Paul to the Thessalonians But we haue expresselie that the holie scriptures are able to make vs wise to saluation to make the man of God perfect and prepared to all good works which things seing we haue fufficientlie in the holie scriptures we neither regard nor receiue any other doctrine vnder name of tradition of the Apo stles or of Angels from heauen Still they haue expresselie If thou wilt enter into life keepe the commaundements and when he said he did that already if thou wilt be perfect go sel all thou hast giue to the poore follow me And we haue no where that either the commaundements of God cannot be kept or that we are not bound vnto them or that there is no degree of life one perfecter then another We graunt that who so by good deeds will seeke to enter into life as that yong man did must doe the deedes of the commaundements which if he can doe he shal liue by them but albeit he boasted that he had kept the commaundements yet it followeth not that he did keepe them indeede and as god required but was a blinde hipocrite and sought to iustifie him-selfe according to the heresie of the Pharisies That we are not bound to keepe the commaundements as neere as God will giue vs grace is no article of ours but a slaunder of his Finallie we denie that anie mortall mans life is perfect yet we graunt that some mens liues come neerer to perfection then other some Neither doth our Sauiours words include perfection in selling his goodes nor in giuing them to the poore for if a man bestowe all his goodes to feede the poore and haue not loue he is nothing but he addeth that he must followe Christ and take vp his crosse and so by Christs grace he shal attaine vnto perfection which he falselie imagined that he he had obtained by a pharizaical obseruation of the lawe this fauoreth not Monkes and friers more then hipocrites and liers Beside this They haue expresselie worke your owne saluation with feare and tremhling Phil. 2. we haue no where either that a man can worke nothing toward his owne saluation being holpen with the grace of God or that a man should make it of his beliefe that he shall be saued without all doubt or feare The saying of Saint Paull we acknowledge that men should worke out their owne saluation with feare and trembling together with the next verse following for it is God that worketh in
you both to wil and to be hable to do for his owne good pleasure whereupon we conclude that though a man is willed to worke his owne saluation by walking in that waie which god hath appointed for them that shal be saued yet he can doe nothing by his owne strength but all that he doth is of the grace of god for by grace you are saued through faith that not of your selues it is the gift of God To be short we make not the grace of God an helper onelie but a wholl doer and bringer to passe in vs of our saluation and of all thinges tending thereto For we are not apt of our selues as of our selues to thinke anie thing belonging thereto but our aptnes is of God Nor I saith Saint Paul but the grace of God which is with me Againe we haue infinit places of scripture to prooue that a man ought not to dout of his saluatioÌ in respect of the truth of Gods promises although we ought to feare trem ble at Gods iudgements and although we cannot be alwaies voide of feare in respect of our own weakenes Furthermore they haue expresselie doe ye the worthie fruites of penance Luc. 3. we haue no where that faith onelie is sufficient without all satisfaction and all other workes of penance on our partes The fruites worthie of repentance we acknowledge to be necessaire to declare vnfained repentance but not for satisfaction of Gods iustice which is blasphemous against the satisfaction of Christes death But that a faith which is fruitles or voide of the workes of repentance should be sufficient to saluation or Iustification we doe vtterlie deny as a thing contrary to the scriptures Yet againe they haue expresselie that euerie man shal be saued according to his workes Apo. 20. we haue no where that men shal be iudged onelie according to their faith We confesse as the text is that euerie man shal be iudged according to his workes and so perhaps he would haue saide if the corrector had done his part neither doe we affirme that men shal be iudged onelie according to their faith for triall of their faith shal be made by their workes Once againe they haue expresselie that there remaineth aretribution stipend and paie to euery good worke in heauen Marc. 9. 1. Cor. 3. Apoc. 22. Ps. 118. we haue as he saith no where that good workes done in Christ do merite nothing In the 3. text quoted out of the new testament is all one word ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã which signifieth a rewarde whether it be freelie giuen or deserued by laboure To him that worketh saith Saint Paule ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã rewarde is not accompted according to grace but according to debt But God is debter to no man Neither is there anie merit of good workes once named in the scriptures but against the merit of good workes Christ saith epxresselie when you haue done all thinges that are commaunded vnto you saie we are vnprofitable seruants and the paie wages stipend merite or desert of an vnprofitable seruant is shewed Matt. 25. 30. Cast out the vnprofitable seruant into vtter darkenesse there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth It is therfore the grace mercie and trueth of Gods promise whereby we claime rewarde and not the merites desert or debt of our good workes To that he saieth they haue expresselie praier and sacrifice for the dead in the second of the Maccaebees We answer that booke of Macabes to be no holie Scripture out of which he might haue expresselie a man commended for killing himselfe Whether Angels present good workes and almesdeedes before God and whether Saintes departed do praie for them that are aliue which he gathereth out of the Apocriphal bookes of Tobie and the Maccabes we make no question as of matters not reuealed in the canonicall scriptures But if they were graunted to be so yet it followeth not that men aliue must or may praie to Angels or Saintes departed Last of all out of the canonicall scripture he saieth they haue expresselie that the affliction which Daniell vsed vpon his bodie was acceptable in the sight of God Dan. 10. and we haue no where that such voluntarie corporall afflictions are in vaine But which of vs saith that such voluntarie corporall affliction as Daniell vsed and to such end as he did vse them are in vaine No man verilie You see therefore that while he boasteth of expresse words of scripture against vs he is driuen either to glose vpon the text or to faine some opinion vnto vs which we holde not at all and that all his bragges are but winde and wordes without matter as of one that-fcareth no shame because his heade is hidden The third waie of triall is necessarie collections made and inferred vpon the scriptures which we are willing to acknowledge and admitte to be of as great authoritie as the expresse words of the scripture But to discerne what is necessarie collection and what is not necessarie collection when there is no expresse wordes of scripture there is no certaine waie but the iudgement of Logicke for that onelie is necessarie collection which out of expresse words of scripture or articles of faith or other groundes confessed to be necessarilie gathered out of the holie scripture may be rightly concluded in a true and lawfull syllogisme whatsoeuer cannot be so concluded is no necessarie collection But our answerer saith we must referre our selues to the auncient primitiue Church for this meaning and his reason is For it is like they knew it best for that they liued nearer to the writers thereof then we doe who could well declare vnto them what was the meaning of the same we doe willinglie yeald to consult with the auncient primitiue Church to be holpen with their collections but to admit all their collections without examining them were to admit many errors that euen the Papists doe condemne for errors and which are reprooued by the scriptures them-selues Let one example serue in stead of manie S. Ierome collecteth out of this scripture It is good not to touch a woman that therefore it is euill to touch a woman Euerie man doth see that this is an vnnecessary collection and so are many other in the auncient fathers writings Wherefore we must vse the gift of knowledge of right gathering and concluding which God hath giuen not to be vnprofitable vnto his Church but to be both beneficiall and necessarie Againe marke the feeble reason vpon which our answerer groundeth his saying It is like they knew it best he cannot say it is necessarie that they knew it best then how prooueth he that it is like because they liued neerer to the writers then we doe who could well declare the meaning vnto them In deede if we had the writings of them that liued so neere vnto the Apostles that they might heare their meaning of their owne mouthes it were some likeliehood and yet no necessarie proofe
of necessarie collection For Logicke would stil iudge whether such meaning could be necessarilie gathered out of such wordes Seeing we are not bound to creditte any writings since the diuine inspired scriptures but so farre as they agree with the scriptures and receiue the light of trueth from them But those auncient writers to whome he would haue vs to referre our selues liued so many hun dred yeares after the Apostles and Euangelists the writers of the new testament as they could no more declare to them then to vs their meaning in their writings and therefore those auncient fathers which ground purgatorie prayer to saintes sacrifice of the altar vse of the crosse c. beside tradition vpon the scriptures as the answerer saith must shew the necessarie collection of them by the iudgement of demonstration seeing they neuer sawe the writers neuer heard them speake nor possiblie could liuing so long after them or els they can carie no credit of necessarie collection outof the expresse wordes of holy scripture As for tradition without scripture since God hath giuen the holie scripture is as good as the credit of men may be without a warrant from God A fourth waie of triall of spirites with him is Councells by which olde heretikes haue beene tried and they are content to referre themselues to all the Christian Councells that euer haue beene since Christ died We acknowledge Christian councells to be a godlie meane to exa mine and trie the spirites but according to the scriptures onelie for matters of faith as in the example of the first Councell of Christendome Act. 15. where the question was determined by authoritie of the scriptures But that the Papists dare abide the triall by al Councells it is false for they admit none but by the Popes consent they admitte nothing in them but that the present Pope doth allow Many Councells in Aphrica forbad appellations to Rome the general Councell of Chalcedon made the Bishop of Constantinople of equal dignitie with the Bishop of Rome the Bishop of Constantinople condemned and accursed a Pope sor an heretike the Pope of that time confirmed it yet now it is not holden for Catholike But I will spare examples vntill this lustie gallant dare aduenture the triall whereof he maketh the challenge But seeing there are many points of controuersies betweene vs and the Papists which in no auncient councell came in question he bobs vs with the last most learned Godlie and generall Councell of Trent which was gathered of purpose for triall of hercticall spirites whereunto all safe conduct being offered we refused to come for triall As though the Catholikes would haue come to the Councell of Nice if nothing might haue beene therein determined but that which pleased Arius or to the Councell of Constantinople if nothing might haue beene concluded but that Macedonius would allow Or to the Councells of Ephesus and Chalcedon if when all had beene saide that which liked Nestorius and Eutiches must haue bene holden for Catholike Such is our case we accuse the Pope to be an heritike yea and to be Antichrist the Pope will admit no councell but where he him selfe is iudge nor any to haue any voice determinatiue but onely such as are sworne to maintaine his heresies and ambition It is great pitie but the Protestants must come to such a councell Such were many councells holden of olde time by heretikes but for the most part not frequented by the Catholikes Some of our profession were at Trent but what entertainement had they euen such as their aduersaries could afforde them they were not permitted to haue any speach but as pleased their enemies wherefore when they saw noe equitie vsed as they could looke for no better before they came they left the heretikes to consult among them-selues by example of auncient fathers in like Chapters of heretikes The sift waie of triall is to referre the matter to the olde Doctors which liued before the controuersies began of which we haue spoken latelie and this we haue often vsed and still vse against the Papists in most controuersies although the authoritie of man is no certaine rule to trie which is the truth of God Augustine against Iulian vsed this waie rightlie first confuting the Pelagians by the authoritie of the holie scripture and then by the testimonie of the auncient fathers also Theodosius also in a case determined by the holie scripture did politikelie circumuent the heretikes after the aduise of Sisinius the Nouatian by the suggestion of Nectarius the Catholike to put them to a foile which had good successe because the others cause was naught But Epiphanius hath a hard saying against vs as our answerer thinketh It is enough to say against all heresies the catholike church hath not taught this the holy fathers haue not admitted this But I wene Epiphanius doth not meane that it is enough to saie so except men can prooue it to be so For els it is aseasy for heretikes to saie so against Catholikes as for Catholikes against heretikes And here out answerer voucheth Epiphanius quoting onelie lib. 2. contra haere but no Chapter of so long a booke wherebie knowing him to be a common foyster we maie well suspect his honestie in this voucher vntill he shew vs in what Chapter we shall finde it The sixtwaie of triall with him is to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersall Church or great multitude of Christians out of which the other part first departed But to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersal Church is no waie of triall but the matter to be tried And the description that he maketh of the Church is as vncerten the great multitud of Christians out of which the other part first departed For the Catholike Church is not alwaies the greatest multitude When the East Church was deuided from the West the one was as great a multitude as the other yea considering the number of prouinces of the East and the largenesse of them it was the greater And one heresie some times departeth out of another as the Rogatians from the Donatists the Eunomians from the Arrians the Iacobites from the Eutichians c. Neither doth Saint Augustine against the Manichecs make the consent of people and the name of Catholike of them-selues to be a sufficient waie of trial but among many thinges which altogether held him beside the authoritie of the holie scriptures he accounteth these which with the truth are a good confirmation but can be no preiudice against the manifest truth as he confesseth in the same place To the iudgement of Vincentius we will subscribe to holde that which euerie where which alwaies which of all hath beene beleeued so hath no point of Poperie Hoc est etenim verè proprièque Catholicum quòd ipsa vis nominis ratioque declarat quod omnia verè vniuersaliter comprehendit For that is truelie and properlie Catholike saith Vincentius which thing the verie force and reason of the name declareth
will so that she was among them baptized and tooke vpon her the forme of a Nunne whome her father would by force and stripes haue compelled to returne to the Catholike Church but he was forbidden by S. Augustine to vse such force if she would not come with a good will This maie touch Papistes also which haue and do professe nunnes monkes and Priestes yong vndiscret persons against the consent of their parentes but how it should be applied against vs I cannot see But here the notebooke was to blame to quote these places for such purposes the answerer I hope is not so impudent that if he had read the places him-selfe he would for shame haue noted them against vs or els haue added as he doth Finally he noteth it as heretical in the Arrians to appeall from traditions to onelie scripture lib. 1. Contra Maximinum In all which booke there is no such matter for neither doth Maximinus appeale from traditions neither is he noted for so doing by Saint Augustine In deede he often times boasteth of the authoritie of holie scriptures and in that conference he manie times calleth for testimonies of holie-scripture and professeth that he is wil be a disciple of the holie scriptures But for this he is not reproued of Saint Augustine but still pressed with the authoritie of holie scriptures whereof he falselie boasted and when he doth but once call to witnes the councell of Ariminum Saint Augustine in his answer telleth him plainlie that he ought not to alleadge with anie preiudice that Councell against him as neither him selfe the Councell of Nice against the Arrians but requireth that the matter be decyded by authority of the scriptures which are common to bothe partes But Irenaeus in deede doth note it as hereticall in the Valentinians to appeale from the holie scripture to traditions without the which they affirmed that the trueth could not be found in the scriptures which they accused to be diuerselie or doubtfullie written as the Papists do in comparing them to a nose of wax or a leaden rule So the contrarie to that he falselie saith was noted as hereticall by S. Augustine is in trueth noted as hereticall by S. Irenaee But Optatus before Saint Augustine saith he noted it as hereticall in the Donatistes to breake altars whereupon the bodie and blood of Christ were kept as the wordes of Optatus are You must vnderstand that these altars were communion tables made of wood and remooueable couered with a linnen cloth in the time of celebration of which in spite of Catholike Religion some they brake and some they seraped onelie for which follie they are derided by Optatus So plaied the Papistes with the communion tables in the beginning of Queene Maries raigne calling them in despite oister bordes and breaking them with as great furie and without lawfull authoritie as the Donatistes did The like parts they plaied with the communion cups of which he also complaineth as also challenging to them-selues the Church yeardes that the bodies of the Catholikes might not be buried in them So did the Papists in Queene Maries time But the wordes of Optatus are saith our answerer that the bodie and blood of Christ were kept vpon those altars He would haue vs thinke that the sacrament of the altar was kept in a pixe as among the Papistes But the wordes of Optatus are not so For albeit he calleth the communion table an altar as it was commonlie called at that time yet he saith not that the bodie and blood of Christ was kept vpon it his wordes are quid est enim altare nisi sedes corporis sanguinis Christi For what is the altar but the seat both of the bodie and blood of Christ And lest you should thinke that it was a permanent seat wherein the sacrament was kept as it is among the Papistes he saith further speaking of the breaking and scraping of these wooden altars Quid vos offenderat Christus cuius illic per certa momenta corpus sanguis habitabat what had Christ offended you whose bodie and blood at certaine moments of time did dwell there By which wordes he sheweth that the sacrament of the bodie and blood of Christ taried no longer there then vntil the time of the distribution of the same vnto the communicants As for breaking downe of Idolatrous altars and prophaning of all instrumentes belonging to them we haue the word of God as a sufficient warrant so that we cannot iustlie be likened to the Vandales that were Arrians or to Iulian the Apostata which defaced the Religion of the Christians so long as our Religion by the scriptures can not be conuinced of heresie or Apostasie For as heretikes and ethnikes destroied the Religion of Christ with the places and instruments vsed in the exercise thereof so did the Christians serue the Tempells of Idolls and all other monuments of gentilitie and heresie The Papists do no more spare our holie Bibles then we do their prophane bables They breake our tables and cuppes as we do their altars and challices they burne our bodies as we doe their Idolls Finallie it is the Religion that must iustifie or condemne these actions the actions are no sufficient trial of the trueth of Religon Here againe he appealeth to publike disputation or to any other indifferent waie of triall that we dare afford him As for publike disputation we dare if the Magistrates thinke it conuenient but a most in different waie of triall by writing their arguments in syllogismes Doctor Fulke offered for certaine yeares agoe before Campian crept forth with his seditious challenge the offer still remaineth take vp his gloue you Papists if ye dare As for the seditious commendation of Campian and Sherewyn condemned and executed for high treason where with he hath neuer done I will omitte That all heresie is beggerrie which he laboureth to prooue out of Saint Augustine and that the Maiestie of the Catholike cause is greater then heresie can oppresse we doe willinglie graunt Onely let not the maiestie of Christian religion be esteemed by the multitude or wordlie pow er of them which professe it wherein yet the Protestantes are not much inferiour to the Papists at this time but by the riches and glorie of Gods truth reuealed in his holie word wherein Poperie whensoeuer triall is made sheweth it selfe like a moste filthie roge and miserable beggar though she seeke cloakes of eloquence learning authoritie of men or any such like things to couer her And among all that in these times haue taken vpon them to defend her there is not a more beggerlie marchant then this proud answerer who hauing no reading of his owne nor any other good quality of a defender but a brasen face an heape of scornefull words is faine to scrape all his patches of learning out of some other mens notes or suggestions in which he is as voyde of knowledge as a beggar is of honor or riches The
some fault the other for sawe the seedes of superstition and Idolatrie then in sowing better then he yet are not Saint Paul Barnabas Ierome hereby noted for heretikes But for railing saie you and foule scurrilitie such as Protestants vse ordinarilie against vs and among them selues when they dissent I dare auow to be proper to them and their ancetora onelie All this while you tell vs not what you call railing and foule scurrilitie except you meane that the verie same odious termes which are lawfull or tollerable in you be railing and foule scurrilitie in vs onelie because you accompt vs heretikes and then we must accompt you to be trifling sophisters which to conuince vs of railing can bring none other arguments but that which is the wholl matter in contro uersie betweene vs namelie whether we or you be the heretikes and yet you dare auow railing foule scurrility such as Protestantes vse against you not onelie to agree to vs but also to be proper to vs our ancetors by whom you vn derstand none but heretiks Othe modesty of Papistes among whome no one person can be found that euer vsed railing or scurrilitie if this be true that you dare auow of the propertie of heretikes and of all them whome you take for such But it is good to examine your reason by which you would prooue railing to be proper vnto gospellers as you terme them and thereby easilie take a scantling of the diuersitie of their spirits from Popish Catholikes First the mouth speaketh according to the aboundance of the heart which is trew in such sense as it is spoken of by our Sauiour Christ for wickednesse is first bred in the heart before it breake forth of the mouth but it followeth not thereof that you conclude when you saie I meane a man maie be knowne by his speach for then the wickednes of euerie hypocrite might appeare by his talke which is vntrue But Saint Peter said vnto Simon Magus vpon his onelie speech saie you I see thee to be in the verie gall of bitternes c. yet was it no railing speech which Simon Magus vttered nor dissembled speech for he plainlie professed that he was desirous to buie the gift of the holie ghost and last of al it was not onelie speach for the text saith he offered mony for his march andise for otherwise his onelie words as they are reported by Saint Luke were not sufficient to discouer so great wickednes of his heart giue vnto me also this power that vpon whomsoeuer I laie my handes he maie receiue the holie ghost it might haue bene thought vpon this onelie speech that Simon latelie baptized was desirous to haue beene a Minister of the dispensation of the holie ghost to the benefit of gods Church by the graunt of the Apostles if he had not profered monie also by which his couetousnes and other wicked blasphemous opinions of the holie ghost were plainlie discouered You shew your selfe therefore to be a man mightie in the scriptures that can bring no better example or proofe that one by his onelie speech sometime maie be sufficientlie conuicted of the wickednes of his hart then this of Peter and Simon Magus where onelie speech was not vsed and the speech that was vsed was not of it selfe able to discouer the heart of him that spake In matters of greater controuersie betwixt vs perhaps you are better exercised or els we are like to finde feeble arguments on your behalfe To proceede you saie the scripture is plaine in this point what point that a man maie be knowne alwaies by his speech for that he maie sometime thereby be abundantlie conuinced we doubt not well what saith the scripture he that hath not the spirit of Christ appertaineth not to Christ. This is most true of the spirit of adoption which also sheweth it selfe in the fruites of mortification and renouation But hereof we maie not conclude thatall thinges in them that haue the spirit of Christ. are perfect so that they neuer offended no not in wordes or that in whomesoeuer appeereth anie thing which proceedeth not from the spirite of Christ as in the best there do manie things they are therefore to be iudged void of the spirit of Christ. And therefore we maie see what sound diuinitie you teach and how well you vnderstand the scriptures vpon which you conclude as followeth Now then if we consider the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ and of all godlie Christians from the beginning and the furious reprochfull and vnclean spirit of Sathan and all heretikes from time to time and do compare them with the writings of both partes at this daie we maie easilie take ascantling of the diuersitie of their spirites Verilie it shall be found as hard a matter as it was before you made this demonstration for notwithstanding we acknowledge the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ and Christians yet you confesse and the scripture is plentifull to prooue that Christ and his Apostles against the wicked and obstinate enemies of the trueth vsed most hott vehement and sharpe speeches and they which haue trueth on their side maie vse the like in like causes by their examples So that by vehemencie of speech the cause can not so easilie be discerned neither is your scantling right to be taken thereby Those kinde of speaches for the moste parte are to be accompted furious reprochfull and vncleane which are vttered of malice against the trueth when the same being spoken of zeale against falsehood maie wel stand with the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ. Yet are there also certaine vncleane reprochfull and scurrilous speaches which serue not so much to describe falsehood and sinne to the detestation thereof as they seeme of them-selues to bewraie the hatred and intemperate heate of them that vse them against the persons of other and these in no case are commendable but to be reprooued whether they be found in Papistes or Protestantes as neither of both perhapsmaie be cleerelie excused of this falt By this it may be gathered what railing is properlie not euery hot worde as you saie but such as are vsed in an euill cause against trueth iustice of malice commonlie sometime of immoderate zeale such as be offensiue in what cause soeuer or of what zeale soeuer they be vsed and such railing I dare auouch you shall not be able to prooue that it is proper to Protestantes no nor to heretikes For there be heretikes which not with railinges and reprochfull speeches make diuisions in the Church beside the Doctrine of Christ but with faire smooth flatering talke deceiue the harts of the simple therfore railing is not a proper and perpetuall note of heretikes Now as concerning your examples first you begin with Master Charke asking what more venemous wordes can be imagined then these of scorpions poysoned spiders and the like vsed by Master Charke against reuerend men Here except you can first
discharge your Iesuites of herisie and treason the wordes of scorpions and venemous spiders are no railing termes but apt to expresse their venemous and poisonous practises for they are vsed in scripture to describe the like mischeuous workes as Apocal. 9. Esa. 59. 5. The rest of his speaches haue either the same or the like phrases iustified in the scriptures against corrupters of Religion and enimies of publike peace as we shewe your Iesuites to be for the former and their practises to the confusion of some of them haue beene discouered for the latter With Master Hanmers termes I will not meddle who is to answer for him-selfe when you haue confuted his arguments or els when he shall see it conuenient Doctor Fulke the next man whom you condemne to be of a ruffianlike spirit because he saith shew me Allin if thou canst for thy guttes as though you raile not more of him in your ruffianlike terme then he in speaking of Allens guttes whatsoeuer the cause or affection were hath answered alreadie in his own behalfe in such sort as more shame redowndeth to you that haue gathered together his vehement and sharpe speaches vttered in manie bookes and to those whome you complaine by him to be abused while he giueth a reason of his speaches then all the eloquence you haue wil be able to wipe away in a larger treatise then your defense of the Censure as yet appeareth to be Confut of Topish quarrelles page 20. and so forth in 16. or 17 pages If it were no more but your marginall note Docter Fulkes talent in railing wherein you abuse an holie phrase of scripture like an Italian Atheist to mooue Sardonicall laughter it were much more able to conuince you of a ruffianlike spirit then anie terme that D. Fulke vseth seeing such vnreligious allusions vnto the termes and matters of holie scripture cannot be defended in anie man cause or manner The like you haue of Primitias spiritus and Luthers lying with a Nunne in the Lord all which argue a prophane spirite and a licentious intemperate and almoste blasphemous tongue or penne in anie that vse them or the like When you haue almoste done with Doctor Fulke you take vpon you to shew the like rayling in the Masters as you terme them that you haue done in the schollers and beginning with Iohn Caluin you saie that his ordinarie terme especially against Bishoppes and such like as are his superiours is to call them Nebulones knaues which beside the foull gall whence it proceedeth is vnseemelie For this you neither note nor quote anie one place where he vseth that terme in such sort as either his gall might thereby be espied or the same signfying light persons might not fitlie be applied vnto them vpon whome he bestowed the terme As for your popish Bishoppes are not his superiours but for the most part deserue sharper termes then Nebulones euen such as were fitte for Annas Caiphas Ananias and the rest of that race which were as great prelates as they Hauing nothing more against Caluin you passe ouer to Luther who in his booke against King Henrie the eight of England ministreth vnto you larger matter to triumph against him where in it maie be doubted whether you had greater pleasure in discouering of Lu ther 's intemper at stile then in displaying those odious and long since buried reproches against that noble Prince so great an enimie to your Romish Antichrist which as they were vnseemelie in respect of either of their persons him that did write the Prince against whom he did write so they were afterward misliked of Luther himselfe who in as great humilitie as before he did write in disdaine craued pardon at his handes not for the matter substance of his booke but for his vnreuerent handling of the same against a King of so great nobility of so good expectation the cause that mooued him to such destemper was for that he supposed that the booke was not endited by the King him selfe but by some enimie of his to procure his dishonour as he writeth in the same booke Crederes ab insigni hoste regis hunc librum editum in perpetuam regis ignominiam You would thinke that his booke was set forth by some notable enimie of the Kinges to the perpetuall shame of the King And in his Epistle of submission he declareth that he suspected cardinall Wolsey to be the author thereof which made him the bolder to write as he did against it And in the storie of Sir Thomas Moores life written by his sonne in lawe Master Roper which I haue seene it appeareth that Kinge Henrie tooke great displeasure against Sir Thomas Moore for the edition of that booke by which he receiued more dishonour then by anie thing in all his life Luther therfore writing against him that did abuse the name of the Kinge in defence of an euill cause thought he was not bound to spare him because of the Kinges title but that he might so much the rather be free to inueigh against him But this to saie the trueth might be some part of an excuse though not a sufficient defense of his doing neuerthelesse it followeth not here of that he could not be an elect vessell of God or that he had no part of Gods spirit or that he was herein worsse then anie russian or rakehell as our seuere Censurer saith without either malice or railing spirit I warrant you For Gods elect children they that haue a great part of his spirit do sometimes fal into far greater crimes then this and yet by his grace are brought to repentance as Luther was for this vntemperat stile and thereof made open confession in his epistle of submission againe he erred by immoderat zeale yet in defense of the truth which is not the cause that mooueth ruffians and rakehelles to rage Wherefore it is well with Luther that hath alreadie answered the matter before a more wise and merciful iudge and standeth not at the curtesie of our solemne Censurer But it is more to your purpose that you bring in Luther inueighing against the Caluinistes where he had not by our owne confession a good cause the Caluinistes againe as bitter against him a tast whereof though you refer the matter to another place you wil needes giue vs here by citing of one place in stead of all the rest and that is of the Church of Tygurine against Luther Tygur ãâã 3. contra supermam Lutherij confessionem whole wordes you promise to rehearse out of what edition I cannot tell for the edition of Tigure by Froshere 1545. of Gwalters translation reporteth their wordes somewhat otherwise and therefore I thinke in this place as in diuers other you are but a broaker of other mens ware to put forth that you neuer sawe your selfe but gather out of some other mans notebooke which reported not al thinges either with such diligence or faithfullnes as had beene requisite to be found in
furious deuil yea in the ende after they haue protested their hatred of the deuil al his waies they conclude Deus faxit ne Listhero iuxta domini verbum eueniat Ex abun dantia cordis os loquitur God graunt that it may not come to passe vnto Luther according to the Lords sayings Of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh Now whether these be shameles lyes that the Tygurynes do cal Luther an arch heretike a furious deuil let the readers iudge The second section intituled Of sects and sectaries FIrst you complaine that the answer is somewhat confuse and vnorderlie because Master Charke saith the examples of Elias Elizeus Daniell and Saint Iohn Baptist are no lesse wickedly then vnlearnedly alledged to auow the Iesuites order which hot entrance saie you is ioyned with a manifest cauil because these examples are not alledged to auow the Iesuites order absolutelie but in one point of differen life from the common sort which maketh them no sectaries But in deed Master Charke keepeth good order speaking first of the name of a sect then the definition of sectaries thirdlie to such reasons as are alledged to prooue the Iesuites to be no sectaries namelie these examples which without anie cauil as you surmise he denied to be sufficient to auow the order or companie of Iesuites to be no sectes so followeth the matter of confusion vntil the end of it And now we wil marke his reason as you bid vs. He demaundeth what you are able to bring out of the word of God why Elias should after more then two thousand yeares be brought in for a patron of friars you answer these examples are brought by the censurer to prooue that different apparell diet or straight order of life doe not make sectaries as Master Charke hath affirmed and now cannot defend and therefore hauing nothing els to say maketh these vaine and idle interrogations in steade of proofes Hear you not how confidentlie he speaketh what Master Chark hath affirmed how boldely he pronounceth that he is not able to defend that he hath affirmed and last of all how scornfullie he concludeth that he hath nothing but vaine idle interrogations in stead of proofes would ye not thinke that he which so latelie charged Master Charke with shamelesse lyes though he shewed none had a care that he himselfe should speake nothing but the trueth And which in the end of the former section was so busie with the conscience of Master Charke and Master Whitaker that he burdened them with open dissimulation and blinding of the people is it like that in the beginning of the next section he would make an open and moste impudent lie him selfe for beleue me reader if thou wilt or els read ouer Master Charkes answere to Campians seditious pamphlet thy selfe and thou shalt finde my wordes to be true that Master Charke doth no where affirme in all that booke that different apparell diet or straight order of life doe make sectaries I saie neither in this forme of wordes nor in any other to this effect or sense Then iudge according to thy conscience what a sincere Censurer this Papist is to Master Charke and what a doughtie defender he is of his owne Censure But now to returne to you sir defender whom I may not accuse of lying lest you charge me of rayling although I take you in a manifest vntruth was this the cause why ye found fault with M. Charkes method to iumble together thinges that were in good order that you might fumble out such an open slaunder be couered with the dust of disorder that you your selfe had raised you shew now of what spirit you are euen of his that was a lier and a false accuser from the beginning and the father of the same things But to that idle interrogation of Master Chark as you terme it what was there in Elias Elizeus or Daniel that maie liken them to Iesuites you answere there was to your purpose now in hand a different sort of life from the common sort which made them no sectaries as Master Charke would haue the Iesuits to be for that cause I haue said before for that cause onelie Master Charke would not haue them neither doth he therebie go about to prooue them to be sectaires although there is great difference in the singulare examples of those Prophets and in multitudes of men that seuer them-selues from the common sorte of true Christians and that for religions sake therefore those examples were idlelie brought in by the censurer to prooue that lesuites are no sectaries But to this you adde which is more then you neede as you saie and in deede more then is for your purpose to iustifie the Iesuites that dwell commonlie in the greatest cities That Saint Ierome proueth plainlie that Elias and Elizeus were the beginners captaines and patrones of Monkes and monasticall life whome he calleth for that cause Monkes of the olde testament ep 13 ad Paulinum ep 4. ad Rusticum For Saint Ierome in the former place prooueth not at all but onelie saith Noster Princeps Elias c. our prince is Elias ours is Elizeus our guides are the sonnes of the Prophets which dwelled in the fieldes and desert places and made them tabernacles neere the streames of Iordane The like he saith of the sonnes of Rechab which dranke no wine or strong drink and dwelled in tentes this he saith to approoue the dwelling of solitary men that were giueÌ to studie and contemplation in desert places by example of these holy men commended in the scripture which extendeth not to Popish Monkes or Iesuites which thrust in them selues especiallie into places of most frequencie of people In the epistle to Rusticus he speaketh neither of Elias nor Elizeus but exhorteth Rusticus likewise to leaue the citie and to get him into some solitarie place if he will be in deede that he professed him selfe to be called Monachus a solitarie man He bringeth in deede the example of Iohn Bap t ist and the sonnes of the Prophets Filij Prophetarum quos Monachos in veteri testamento legimus aedificabant sibi casulas propter fluenta Iordanis turbis vrbium derelictis polenta herbis agrestibus victitabant the sonnes of the Prophets whome wereade to haue beene Monkes or solitary men in the olde testament did build themselues litlecoteges neere to the streames of Iordan and hauing for saken the throng of cities liued with potage and wilde hearbs In the same epistle he saith mihi oppidum carcer and solitudo paradisus est quid desideramus vrbium frequentias qui de singularitate censemur vnto me the towne is prison and the solitarie place is a paradise what do we desire the frequencie of cities which haue our name of being solitarie These wordes of Saint Ierome do shew that in the principall point of profession there is great odds betwixt your Iesuites the solitarie men of the olde
the noble virgine Eustochium testified how litle he preuayled with such immoderate austerity to subdew the lust of his slesh vntil by importunitie of prayers he obteined rest of his vnquiet minde from Christ. Although his wordes be not as you haue set them downe that his skinne was as blacke as an Ethiopian but his deformed skinne was growen ouer with the hearines or scurffe of an Ethiopians flesh squalida cutis situm aethiopicae carnis obduxerat In the margent you note that we will saie Saint Hierome was noe Protestant I answere although we cannot allow Saint Hierome or any man that by hurting his bodelie health with immoderate rigour of austere life bringeth his natural life in daunger yet doe we imbrace S. Hierome as a member of the true Church of Christ whoe trusted not in any merite of such chaistisment but onelie in the mercie of God by Iesus Christ. The like we say of any examples of godlie men that are brought by Cassianus whoe is not altogether so olde as you make him Your rayling and seoffing at Peter Martyr I omitte as meete for such a Censurer but where you charge him to iest at Saint Basill and Saint Gregorie Nazianzen for hard handling of their owne bodies in cap. 16. lib. 3. Reg. your note boke deceiued you for in his comment vpon the Chapter he hath no such matter His iudgement els where may be to this effect That notwithstanding the examples of the auncient godlie fathers yet it is neither lawfull nor expedient for a man with such rigour to handle his bodie as it be not able to serue him in his calling For as chastisement of the bodie to bring it in subiection is sometime necessarie So weakening of the bodie to make it vnable to serue the spirit in such outward actions as require the vse of the bodie is neither wisedome nor godlines what examples soeuer be pretended For as it is not lawfull for a man vnder any pretense of mortifying his flesh to kill him selfe so it is not lawfull for any man to torment his bodie aboue the strength thereof wherby sicknes must needes follow and death may ensue For against all examples of godlie men that can be alledged to the contrary we will oppose the wisdome of the holy ghost in his elect vessel S. Paul whoe calleth Timothie from such austeritie wherebie his health was impaired vnto a moderate vse of gods creatures Drink no more water saith he butvse a litle wine because of thy stomach and often infirmities 1. Tim. 5. 23. According to the proportion of which rule if many of the examples before remembred were exacted they may perhapes declare a zeale in the persons but such as is not guided by knowledge of Gods will reuealed in the scriptures Where you saie If the Ministers of England would vse this cooling phisick there should be fewer Eatons and Hynches openlie punished or flie the countrie for incest rape you would insinuate that for lacke of chastisement of mens bodies so great enormites breake out and in part it may be true so you touch none but such as are guilty who when they be discouered by your owne confession are not winked at in our Church but openlie punished what discipline soeuer you vse when anie of your Iesuites are ouertaken with such offences The number God be thanked of such offenders among vs is not great how small chastisement soeuer you thinke the Ministers doe vse and therefore no cause why you should amplifie them in the plurall number as though for one Eaton or one Hynch there had beene ten of each sorte at the least Too manie we confesse of one but fewer then one there could not be except there had beene none Howbeit we praise God that so fewe haue geuen such offence in so long peace of the Church and praie God they be the last Yet are they a small matter for you to insult against vs if you looke homewarde where for two you may easilie finde two hundred and for two poore Ministers manie of your great prelates yea your Popes by confession of your owne historians haue not beene behind any examples of incontinencie and filthines But if we will not practise this remedie our selues for contristing or making sad the holie ghost within vs which you saie is our phrase yet you will vs not to impute it as schisme and heresie to them which vse it moderatlie as we maie imagine the Iesuites will being not fooles nor hauing iron bodies but sensible as ours are Hereto I answer that the remedie of incontinencie we learne out of the scriptures and haue no neede of your instruction for such matters if God geue vs grace to practise that which we learne out of his word The phrase whereat you scoffe is not ours but vsed by the holie Ghost him-selfe though in a farre other sense then you ascribe it to vs in which meaning you will sooner be hanged for a traitour then you are able to prooue that anie approoued Minister of ours hath euer vsed the same in speach or writing Among the familie of loue perhappes which are catercosins with you Papistes you may finde such blasphemous abusers of holie phrases of scripture The imputing to schisme or heresie ariseth of the Iesuites profession and practise which in such doinges pretend a greater merit and perfection then God requireth of Christians Otherwise we doubt not but many of the Iesuites can fauour them-selues wel enough in their voluntarie whipping especiallie those of our nation or of anie other except the Spaniardes among whome the reliques of the olde whipping heretikes haue continued so ranke in some that they haue beene seene in England to endure greeuous whipping for other mens sinnes that liked not to suffer such penannce in their owne persons The following of one mans rule you sate can make no diuision because it is but a particular direction of life and manners grounded one the seriptures and practise of the fathers and alowed by the superiours of the Church But here you assume more then wil be graunted for neither is the rule of Laiolas grounded one the scriptures neither haue the gouernours of the Church authoritie to allowe anie such rule and last of all it is so newe that it hath no practise of the auncient fathers to shadow it The first is prooued before the second dependeth vpon the first and the last of the newnes is manifest of it selfe But all this while you haue supposed that Master Charkes reportes of the Iesuites life and vocation were true which is false for there was neuer anie that tooke a vowe to whippe them-selues and much lesse to doe it after the example of a sect called by the name of whippers condemned long agoe Here beside a double cauill is nothing worthie the answering for Master Charke meaneth not that their vowe is to followe the condemned whippers but that this whipping is after the example of that condemned sect in that they wippe and torment
haue beene hither to frustrate and the strength of the Turke is increased by our warres The second is that vnder pretext of making warre against the Turke the Popehath vsed to rake mony to gether for their pardons And he concludeth that without repentance and the ouerthrow of the Popes tyrannie there is no hope to preuaile in warre against the Turkes because God is not on our side butiustlie incensed against vs. Quantòrectius saith he faceremus c. How much better should we do if first with our praiers yea rather by changeing the wholl course of our life we reconcile God vnto vs And then that the Emperours the princes would restraine that Idole of Roome from tyrannie deceit and destroying of souies For that I also maie once prophecie although I know I shall not be heard Except the Pope of Rome be brought vnder all Christendome is vndonne Let him flie as Christ hath taught into the mountaines he that can or with confidence let him offer his life to death vnto the Romish murtherers The Popedome can worke nothing but sinne and destruction what will you more But who shall subdue the Pope Christ by the brightnes of his comming and none other Lord who hath beleeued our preaching he that hath eares to heare let him heare and let him absteine from the Turgish warre while the name of the Pope preuaileth vnder heauen I haue said By this you maie see that Luther fauored not the empire of infidelitie but sheweth by what meanes it maie be resisted Againe he forbiddeth not defense against the Turke but inuasion of the Turke when we maie be at peace with him For that it is lawfull to fight against the Turke in our owne defense he sheweth his opinion in consut Rat. Latomianae where he derideth the follie of Latomus and the diuines of Louane which racked the decree of Pope Leo to this sense that it was needles to answer the aduersaties of religion which is as great wisedome of the schoole of Louane in proceeding against Luther as if when the Turke doth set vpon vs which is no waies lawfull for him and yet he will not be staid we should send the diuines of Louane embassadors vnto him which should saie vnto him It is not lawfull for thee to fight and if thou do we will condemne thee and so suffer him to raunge at his pleasure and yet boast that we haue gotten the victorie Nay saith he let vs laie aside praiers and all spirituall armour and cease to resist the deuill denouncing vnto him and saying It is not lauful for thee to trouble the Church of God So that Luther by these wordes declareth his iudgement that it is as lawfull for vs and as necessarie with bodelie armour to defend our selues against the Turke assailing vs as it is to fight against the deuill with spirituall armour and to confute enemies of the trueth by the word of God For a fourth example of impietie you adde when he reprehended the Pope for defining beside scripture that the soule is immortall and calleth it a monster of the dunghill of Rome what ground of impietie doth he not laie In deed if Luther should denie the immortalitie of the soule as Pope Iohn the 23. did and was therefore conuicted and condemned in the Counsell of Constance wee would accurse Luthers memorie as much as the Popes But if Luther reprehended the Pope for deliuering that vpon the creditte of his owne definition and authoritie which is manifestlie grounded vpon the authoritie of holie scriptures what a slaunderous penne haue you He was charged by the Collectors art 37. to haue saide thus Certum est in manu Ecclesiae c. It is certaine that it is not in the hand of the Church or of the Pope at all to decree articles of the faith nay nor yet lawes of manners and good workes To this article Luther answereth thus Probo hunc sic c. This article I prooue thus 1. Cor. 3. No man can lay any other foundation beside that which is alreadie laide which is Iesus Christ. Here thou hast the foundation laid by the Apostles but euerie article of faith is part of this foundation therefore none other article can be laid then is alreadie laid There may be builded vpon as the same Apostle saith And therefore the Pope ought to be laide and builded vpon the same foundation but not to lay any foundation for all things to be beleeued are fully set forth in the scriptures Yet I permit that the Pope may make articles of faith to them that beleeue in him such as these are That the bread and wine are transsubstantiated in the sacrament That the essence of god doth neither beget nor is begotton That the soul is the substantiall forme of the bodie That he him seife is the Emperour of the world King of heauen and an earthly God That the soull is immortall And all those infinite monsters in the Romish dunghill of decrees that such as his faith is such may be his Gospell such his beeleeuers such his Church and that like lippes may haue like lettice and the cup a couer meete for it But we which are Christians and not Papanes doe know that there is nothing pertaining either to faith or good manners which is not abundantlie set forth in the holie scriptures that there is neither authoritie nor place for men to decree any other thing These wordes declare that what doctrine is true and needefull to be knowne must be receiued from God by the holie scriptures not from the Popes decrees or from any mortall mans authoritie It is maruaile you doe not charge Luther with holding the pluralitie of Gods because here prehendeth the Pope for defining that the essence of god can neither beget nor be begotton as wel as with denying the immortality of the soul. both which articles are to be taken out of the holie scriptures not from the authoritie of the Popes definition For though the Pope define any thing which is true yet it must not be receiued vpon his creditte but vpon the authoritie of Gods worde And seeing the Popes decrees doe containe such a number of vntruethes the articles of faith from the Popes decrees may receiue discredit rather then authoritie But all thinges must be examined according to the worde of God writen which is the truth yea euen the scripture comming from the mouth of the deuill Againe I wish the reader to consider how truelie you saie that Luther calleth that opinion of the immortalitie of the soule a monster of the dunghill of Rome when he speaketh of the infinite monsters of falsehoode that are found in the dunghill of the Popes decrees where of he maketh no expresse mention in answere to this article The last example of impiety is when Luther affirmeth and mantaineth that neither man nor Angell on earth can laie any one lawe vpon any one Christian further then he will him-selfe What foundation say you
acceptus est quemadmodum paulò pòst dicemus omnibus sacrarum literarum candidatis qui adhue nonnihil propter parabolae obstacula haerebant omnem nebulam discussit c. There remained yet not the lest endeuour namelie that we should bring forth examples which wereioined with no parable Therefore we began to thinke of all that we could to vnfolde all that we could but yet none other example came to minde but that is set forth in our commentarie or els whatsoeuer came to minde was like vnto those examples But when the 13. daie drew neere I tell the trueth that so true that though I would conceale it my conscience compelleth me to vtter that which the Lord bestowed vpon me being not ignorant to how great reproches and scornes I lay forth my selfe when I say the 13. daie of Aprill drew neere me thought as I was a sleepe that with great tediousnes I was againe disputing with the scribe my aduersarie that my mouth was so stopped that my tongue denying her office I was not able to speake out that which I knew to be true which trouble as dreames are wont sometimes to mocke men in the deceitfull night for here I declare no higher matter then a dreame as coÌcerning my selfe although it is no light matter that I learned by this dreame thankes be to God to whose onelie glorie I vtter these thinges which vexation I saie seemed to trouble me vehementlie Then sodainlie there seemed an admonisher to be present with me whether he were blacke or white I do not at all remember for I tell a dreame which said why dost thou not thou coward answere him that which is written Exod. 12. For it is the paschall which is the passeouer of the Lord. Immediatlie as this sight appeered I awoke withall and leapt out of my bed And first I considered the place in the Seauentie Interpreters on euerie side and thereof before the wholl congregation I preached as well as I could Which sermon when it was heard as soone after we shall declare draue awaie all mist or want of vnderstanding from all those that were studentes in the holie Scriptures which vnto that time did somewhat doubt because of the obiection of the parable Thus farre Zuinglius by whose wordes you may easelie perceiue what proofes he receiued of his Doctrine of the Sacrament of a spirit by night as our defender saieth when he sheweth onelie that he was admonished by Gods prouidence in a dreame ofthat example Exod. 12. in which the trope or figure is manifest being also in the doctrine institution of a sacrament whereunto the Lords supper doth most properly answere which is vsed in the words of the Lords supper this is my body without anie such parable as was obiected vnto him in the other examples Where he saith that he remembreth not whether the aduertiser were white or blacke he meaneth no more as all men that know the prouerbe must confesse but that he remembreth not what he was whether knowne to him or vnknowne of whom he dreamed that he receiued that example The same prouerbe he vseth not long before in the same discourse of him that disputed against him who whether he was white or blacke that is what manner of man he was he would not describe Surius quarelleth against him that he would attribute so much to a dreame when otherwise he will admit nothing but holie scriptures whereas euerie reasonable man may see that he admitteth no Doctrine vpon the bare credit of a dreame or of the admonisher were he whit or blacke but is onelie put in minde by a dreame of a place of holie Scripture that serued to stoppe his aduersaries mouth and to remooue all doubt from them that were nouices in the studie of the scripture And this is a thing that manie times commeth to passe that a man which earnestlie studieth of anie matter shall in his dreame be admonished of some better waie then he could thinke of waking Which when he hath considered to be the best for anie good purpose he neede not to doubt but that it came vnto him by the prouidence of God without being afraide to follow it because he thought of it first in a dreame What Luther thought of Zuinglius it skilleth not seeing as he was stiffe in his error of the carnall manner of presence so he was apt both to thinke and speake worse then the trueth was of all them that held the contrarie The last two were Caluine and Beza of whome it is needles to saie anie more then hath alreadie beene setforth in their defense in print these two yeares with out replie of anie papist Although God be praised the Church of England dependeth neither vpon these not vpon other men further then they were faithfull interpreters of the worde of God according to which our faith is framed and not after the decrees of men Concerning the death of Martine Bucer welknown in England whome the papists abroad as they doe of the rest imagine to haue died a foule death our defender quarrelleth with Master Charke for belying of Lindan and charging him to saie that Lindan auoucheth it where he onelie reporteth as he hearde of certaine worshipfull Marchants of Colene But in trueth Master Charke saieth not that Lindan doth auouch it but onlie that by vttering his false reports he maketh Bucers death as horrible and monstrous as may be suspected Pontacus the popish historian vttereth a like report as the defender confesseth that he died a Iew denying the Messias Surius addeth another tale that he circumcised his sonne begotten of I know not what woman Thus these lying papists heape lies vpon lies and when they haue neither sufficient author nor probabilitie of trueth to beare them out then certaine worshipfull Marchauntes then a certaine graue and most excellent learned man then some of Bucers owne disciples are the reportes vnder which cloake it is an easie matter to forge anie slaunder and turne ouer the enuie of it to the man in the moone in the meane time to burthen men with suspicion of infamie among credulous persons where no proofe of their false accusations can be demaunded and obtained Touching Bucers inconstancie The defender out of Surius and other of that stampe gathereth manie thinges peruerting to vnstedfastnes of iudgement what soeuer Bucer did saie laboring to make vnitie betweene Luther and Zuinglius Charging him also to recant the article of the baptisme of infants to be vnnecessarie as he had written before vpon the third Chapter of Saint Mathewes Gospell and vpon the 26. of Mathew to aske pardon of God and of the Church for that he deceiued so manie with the heresie of Zuinglius as he calleth it Both which matters are meere forgeries for in those commentaries vpon that Gospell which we haue seene there is no such matter Finallie where he affirmeth that Caluine differed from Zuinglius which Master Fulke in all his writings most impudentlie denieth he
thinke you haue prepared this as a bumme carde to wine the game That S. Auustine saieth concupiscence in the regenerate is not sinne I graunt so you wil confesse that he saith also that it is sinne When he saieth it is not sin he meaneth either because the guilt is forgiuen ãâã because it is not actuall sinne as Saint Iames doth distinguish sinne from concupiscence But that it is of it selfe sinne and damnable if it be not remitted he affirmeth cont Iul. Pel. lib. 5. c. 3. lib. 6. cap. 5. he saith it is euill alwaies and cap. 3. he condemneth it as the Pelagians heresie that ãâã it is not to be blamed Where Master Charke chargeth you with alteration of the text when you translate omnis qui facit peccatum euerie one that sinneth where you should saie euerie one that doth sinne you make sporte afteryour manner and aske what difference whether a man saie your wife spinneth or your wife doth spin where you shew your selfe to be a verie good Grammarian that can make no difference in our tongue betweene the signe of the actiue mode doth and the Greeke worde ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã think that ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã differeth nothing in vehemency from ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã which M. Chark told you you should haue translated to expresse the force of the phrase in our tongue euerie one that committeth sinne But this you count smal game and I would it were the greatest that you haue committed in your censure You cannot afford M. Chark to say that he knoweth he serueth the Lord because he hath not that knowledge by Aristotles demonstrations you are sure which yet are the onelie meanes of certaine science properlie So that the doctrine of the scriptures the testimonies of the holie ghost are no meanes of certaine science properlie Yet without them and Aristotles demonstrations also you are sure that Master Charke hath no certaine knowledge that he serueth the Lorde Or if you suppose you can gather your surenes ãâã Aristotelicall demonstrations it maie please you to thinke that Master Charke may by the same kinde of demonstrations gather the certaintie of his knowledge hauing the maior in the holie scriptures and the testimonie of his conscience and of the holie spirit for the minor and conclusion The examples you obiect of Luther and Bucer altering their opinions are not like the matter in question For as men may ãâã so maie they be deceiued in their opinion of ãâã God yet it followeth not that no man maie be certaine that he serueth God trulie Where you saie that Luther had beene a protestant manie yeares when he saide he did knowe there was a purgatorie it is false sor at the same time he acknowledged the Popes authoritie ãâã humano by the lawe of men as in the time of the Canstans Councell it was the opinion of manie Papists The ninth section intituled Of Concupiscence Art 2. THe doctrine of the Iesuites as Gotuisus reporteth is that Concupiscence remayning in the regenerate although it be against the law of God yet is it not ãâã properlie in it selfe or of his owne nature Here you will not accept the excuse which layeth the addition of these wordes although it be against the law of God vpon ãâã because Master Charke might haue seene them wanting in Canisius As though he was bound to examine the reporte of Gotuisus which he promiseth to rehearse by Canisius But Master Charke telleth you the excuse is needeles because those words must of aecessity be vnderstood For the question isof none other concupiscence but that which is against the law Secondlie you slaunder him when you saie he doth assure his Reader that you doe vnder hand graunt concupiscence to be some kinde of sinne when you denie it to be mortall sinnes for his sentence is disiunctiue namelie either you graunt c. or els you loade and disguise your sentence with waste wordes which is true for to what purpose should you denie that to be deadlie sinne which you do not acknowledge to be anie sinne as if one should saie an Asse is not a wise man he should speake fondlie seing an Asse is no man That concupiscence by Saint Paul is called sin vnproperlie as S. Augustine saith because it is the cause of sinne Master Charke denieth yet without anie malepertnes as you charge him or contumelie neuer so litle vnto Saint Augustine but with that libertie which he himselfe graunteth to all men that shall reade or examine his writings Neither is Saint Augustines iudgement alwaies the exposition of the primitiue Church when both he diffenteth from others and from himselfe also now and then But now let vs see how you cauill at Master Charkes exposition of Saint Paul to the Romanes where he calleth concupiscence sinne First he saith though the Lawe stirrcth vs to sinne yet is it no sinne and that maketh for you for so you may conclude of concupiscence But then your conclusion shal be false and your reasoning weaker then that you reprehend in Master Charke as weake reasoning where he saith If the lawe that is holie doe come in question of sinne for that it prouoketh our corrupt nature to sinne how much more concupiscence which is vncleane of it selfe This prooueth nothing say you but from the place à disparatis where children and distracted men take their arguments I will enter no logicall disputation with you of what force the argument à disparatis is if it be rightlie vsed but I maruell you could not see the argument à comparatis from the lesse to the more If the holie lawe maie come in question of sinne much more the vncleane lust But you woulde haue men thinke that Master Charke meant by this comparison to conclude that lust is properlie sinne wheras he onelie prepareth a waie to that conclusion by this comparison But the antecedent you saie is false that the law stirreth vs to sinne or the lawe prouoketh our corrupt nature to sinne Which Master Charke saith not absolutelie but that through our rebellion the law giuing no occasion but the occasion beeing altogether taken by our corruption rebelling against the commaundement You replie that the lawe doth no waie stirre to sinne but by discouering as a glasse doth spottes and that Saint Paul hath no such meaning as Master Charke saith But the text is too plaine to be denied That sinne taking occasion through the commaundement hath wrought in me all concupiscence the commaundement comming sinne reuiued Sinne taking occasion thorough the commaundement hath deceiued me c. that sinne might be made exceedinglie sinnefull Now to prooue that Saint Paul meaneth voluntarie concupiscence whereunto consent or delectation is yelded where he saith he had not knowne concupiscence if the lawe had not saide thou shalt not lust you cite S. Augustine lib. 1. de nupt concup cap. 29. where he hath the cleane contrarie iudgement Multum boni facit qui facit quod
the workes of nature or will which are in vs but by the he lie ghoste which is geuen vnto vs which both helpeth our infirmitie and worketh with our health for that is the grace of God by Iesus Christ our Lord. to whome with the father and the holie ghoste be ascribed eternitie and goodnes for euer In this discourse of S. Augustine is declared that the commaundements of God are made possible and not heauie to be fulfilled by the grace of God nor by the strength of man either of nature or will and that by two meanes faith and loue Faith by which we craue obtaine forgiuenes of our imperfection and loue by which we cherefully endeuour to accomplish in work so much as we can which we can not do perfectly in this life in as much asno mans heart is pure in this life no mans loue is perfect in this world yet faith purifying our harts that by themselues are vnclean obtaineth as the same 's Augustine saith that which the law commaundeth But how far is this from the popish assertion to wit The law is not abooue our abtlitie to keepe it The cursse that you cite out of Augustine Serm. 191. and Ierorme explan Symb. ad Damasum is but a crack of a broken bladder in stead of a thunderbolte For both the sermon and the explanation are counterfeit stuffe being all one word forword except a litle ãâã flue in the beginning and the end and yet are most impudentlieascribed both to Augustine and Ierome But that ne ther of both is author of that sentence I wil prooue by ãâã of Saint Ierome who expresselie affirm ah that which the sermon and explanation accurseet We cursse the blasphemie of them saie the counterfeiters which saie that anie thing impossible is commaunded by God to man and that the commaundements of God cannot be kept of euerie one but of all in common Saint lerome dialog aduers. Pelag. lib. 1. saith Possibilia praecepit ãâã ego fateer Sed haec possibilia cuncta singuli habere non possumus non imbeciliitate naturae ne calumniam facias deo sed animilassitudine quae ãâã simul semper non potest habere virtutes God commaunded things possible and that I confesse But all these possible thinges euerie one of vs can not haue through weakenes of nature lest thou shouldest slaunder God but through wearines of minde which can not haue all vertues together and alwaies And his whole discourse in that dialogue is to prooue that no man can be without sinne the contrarie whereof is flat Pelagianisine He expoundeth also at large how the commaundements of God are possible and how vnpossible which maie be seene of anie man that will read his writings against the Pelagians and therfore it is very iniurious vnto him to make him a patrone of that sentence which he put posedlie and plentifullie impugneth To conclude Chrysostome and Basile meane not that a perfect obseruation of Gods law is possible in this life but that God geueth grace in some measure to keepe them to those that are borne ãâã in Christ in whome onelie is performed that which was impossible by the law as the A postle saith These fathers and diuerse other whose authority the Pelagians abused as you do to vpholde their heresie by such speeches meant to accuse the negligence and slothfulnes of men in keepeing Gods commaundements not to extoll the power and abilitie of mans free will to keepe them as Saint Augustine prooueth by manie testimonies taken out of their writinges in his treatises against the Pelagians The eleuenth section of de facing the scriptures and doctrines by tradition THe Iesuites you saie do not vse these termes of defacing that the scripture is imperfect maimed or lame and thereof I will not contend but the same in effect they holde as Master Charke saith when they affirme that all things necessarte to saluation are not contained in the scripture Your similitude of a marchant leauing his commaundements partelie in writings and partelie by word of mouth and referring the resolution of doubtes vnto his wife is not sufficient in this case For our Sauiour Christ liueth for euer whereas his seruants and the men of whome his Church which is his spouse consisteth are changed in euerie generation So that there can be no certaintie of his commaundements but onelie by his writings which if they containe not all thinges necessarie to saluation they are imperfect lame and maimed And where you saie that Saint Augustine prooueth the contrarie at large lib. 1. cont Cresc c. 32. it is vtterlie vntrue For he saith expresselie concerning the question of rebaptising them that were baptized by heretikes Sequimur sanè nos in hac re etiam Canonicarum authoritatem certissimam scripturarum We truelie doe follow in this matter also the most certaine authoritie of the Canonicall scriptures whereunto he adioineth the consent of the Catholike Church after some disceptation about the matter whose counsell agreeable to the holie scripture no man doubteth bur it is to be followed Theverie same doctrine you saie teacheth the said father lib. de side operibus cap. 9. and also ep 66. ad Don. In the former is no worde to the purpose he speaketh of the Eunuch whome Philip baptized whose confession of Christ being verie shorte some thought to be sufficient for anie man that should receaue baptisme whereas there is a more distinct knowledge and particuler explication of this faith in other places of scripture set downe that is to be required of them that are catechised and come to baptisme In the last quotation I thinke there is a faulte either in your Printer or in your notebooke which setteth downe ep 66. for ep 166. which is directed to the Donatistes whereas the other is to Maximus But in this epistle to the Donatistes there is nothing that prooueth this matter that the scriptures containe not all things necessarie to saluation Onelie he exhorteth the Donatistes to vnitie shewing that out of the same scriptures which teach Christ to be the head his bodie the Church is to be discerned and learned Touching the twelue pointes of doctrine set downe by the Censure as not conteined expresselie in the scripture and yet to be beleeued Master Charke answereth that seuen of them are in scripture the rest not necessarie to be beleeued But here you saie the question is of expresse scripture and not of any farre fet place that by interpretation may be applied to a controuersie If you meane by expresse scripture that which is expressed in so many wordes as the thing in coÌtrouersy we deny that we haue anysuch question with you For we holde that any thing which by necessary demonstration can be concluded out of the scripture is as true as necessary to be beleeued as that which is expressed in plaine wordes And so we meane when we saie all thinges necessarie to saluation are conteined in the holie scriptures And as for your
examples of inuocation of Saintes praier for the dead purgatorie and the like if you can winne them either by manifest wordes or by necessarie conclusion we are content you shall weare them and we also wilyeald vnto them otherwise you prate without proofe of expressed in the scripture trifling vppon the terme expressed which either we vse not in this question or els we meane therbie certainlie declared and taught in the scriptures either in expresse wordes or by necessarie conclusion But now let vs see how Master Chark is distressed in answering these twelue particulers For the first of the seauen which he acknowledgeth to be contained in the scripscripture which is that there is two natures and two wills in Christ he citeth these wordes Rom. 1. of his sonne which was made vnto him of the seede of Dauid according to the flesh Also Math. 26. not as I will but as thou wilt here you saie that the interpretation of the Church being set aside and the bare text onelie admitted these places cannot conuict an heretike yes verelie the onelie authoritie of the textis sufficient to confit me faith and to conuince an heretike For the former point thus The diuinitie and humanitie are two natures in Christ is diuinitie and humanitie ergo two natures The maior is manifest the minor is plaine by the text the sonne of God one nature the seede of Dauid an other nature For the fecond point The will of God and the will of man the one contradictorie to the other are two willes In Christ was the will of God contradictorie to the wil of man ergo two wills The minor is prooued out of the text not as I wil but as thou wilt seeing Christ was both God man That the Monothelits in the 6. Councill of Costantinople could not be conuinced out of the scriptures it is an intollerable slaunder of that reuerend assemblie for euen by this text and manie other their error was made manisest wherunto albeit the consent of the aun cient fathers was added yet is there no word in all that 4. action which you quote to prooue that they were not sufficientlie confuted out of the holie scriptures The second point is the proceeding of the holie ghost from the father and the sonne equallie for which Master Chark quoteth Ioh. 15. 26. When the holie ghoste shall come which I will send you from my father the spirit of trueth which proceedeth from the father c. Against this you cauill that it prooueth not the proceeding equallie and cite Cyril for your witnes in 15. Ioh. who out of this place prooueth that equally as wel as the proceeding seeing the heretikes might be ashamed to say that the spirit of the father was sent by the son as by a minister which also if they should saie he disprooueth for that if the sonn were as a minister he should be of an other substance then the father and the spirit proceeding from the father being of the same substance with the father should be greater in nature then the fonne whereas the sonne saith plainlie of the holy ghoste he shal glorifie me c. An other cauil you haue that this place telleth not whether he proceeded by generation or without generation from the father But it is sufficient that neither this place nor any other place of scripture teacheth that the holie ghoste is begotten therefore we beleeue without generation The third point is the vnion of the word vnto the nature of man and not to the person of man which because you did set downe obscurelie M. Charke did not rightlie vnderstand yet the text that the quoteth 1. ãâã 14. The word was made flesh includeth that assertion also seeing there was no person of the man when the vnion was made vnto the nature of man but the word in taking vpon him the nature of man did vnite him selfe to it in vniting tooke it as it is euident Luk. 1. 35. Mat. 1. 20. The fourth doctrine is the baptising of infants for which Master Charke quoteth Gen. 17. 12. the infant of eight daies shall be circumcised Against this you haue manie trifling cauills that baptisme is not expressed of the sexe of the eight daie Against which I oppose the authoritie of Saint Augustine which lib. 1. cont Crescon Grammat cap. 31. confuteth the rebaptization of such as were baptized by heretikes by example of them that were circumcised by the Samaritantes whose circumcision was not to be repeated to whome the like might be obiected But it is sufficient that wherein baptisme answereth to circumsion the reason is one in both Circumcision was the sacrament of regeneration as baptisme is the one giuen to infantes ergo the other The cerimonie of the eight day had an other reason not needefull to be obserued in baptisme The distinction of the sexe is taken awaie by Christ in whome there is neither male nor female That Beza was striken dumme with this question in the conference at Poyssie it is a slaunder of Cladius de Xanctes confuted by Beza him-selfe But you had rather followe Saint Augustine who contendeth and prooueth that baptizing of infantes is onelie a tradition of the Apostles and not left vs by anie written Scripture lib. 10. cap. 23. super Gen. ad lizeram So you write but I will set downe Saint Augustines wordes that the reader may see what contention and proofes he vseth hauing protested of his ignorance how the reasonable soule commeth into the bodie he concludeth that the baptisme of infantes fauoreth their opinion which thinke that soules are procreated of the parentes And of the baptisme of infantes thus he writeth Consuctudo tamen matris Ecclesiae in baptizandis paruulis nequaquam spernenda est neque vllo modo superflua de putanda nec omnino credenda nisi Apostolica esset traditio Habet enim illaparua aet as magnum testimonij pondus quae prima pro Christo meruit sanguineÌ fundere Yet the custome of our mother the Church in baptizing of infantes is not to be despised nor by any meanes to be thought superfluous nor to be credited at all if it were not an Apostolike tradition for euen that litle age hath greate weight of testimonie which first obteined to shed blood for Christ. You see that here is neither contention not profe that it is onelie a tradition not leftin writing for he alledgeth one testimonie out of Scripture of gods acceptation of that age to martirdome much rather to baptisme and manie other testimonies might be brought for the same purpose as Matt. 19. 14. 1. Cor. 7. 14. c. As for Origen he doth onelie make mention of the baptisme of infants according to the obseruance of the Church to prooue originall sinne But whether it stand onelie vpon tradition and not vpon the scripture he saith not one word The 5. Doctrine is the changeing of the Sabbath into Sondaie M. Charke quoteth Apo. 1. 10. I was in the spirit on
the Lordes daie Here you cauill that there is no mention of Saturdaie or sondaie much lesse of celebration of either and least of all of the changeing of the Sabbath into an other daie But if it please your Censurship are you ignorant what day of the weeke is called dies Dominicus the Lordsday whether saturdaie or sondaie if it be sondaie as al professors of Christes name confesse here is as much mention thereof as is needfull for the daie into which the change is made Or if that be not sufficient you maie haue further Act. 20. 7. 1. Cor. 16. 2. And whie is the first of the Sabbath called the Lordes daie but in respect of the celebration there of in honour of the redemption of the world by Christ For otherwise all daies of the weeke are the Lordes daies in respect of their creation Thirdlie seeing the Lordes daie was one daie in the weeke vsed for the assemblie of the Church for their spirituall exercises of Religion it is certaine that the change of the Iewish Sabbath was made into that daie except you would be so waywatd to saie there were two daies in euerie weeke appointed by God to be celebrated whereas the lawe of God requireth but one and giueth libertie of bodelie exercise in sixe daies So that the change of the Sabbath daie is sufficientlie prooued out of the Scripture into the Lordes daie The sixt point is about foure Gospells and the Epistle to the Romanes which Master Charke saith to be prooued out of the scripture but yet he quoteth no place of scripture where onelie he saith the inscription expresseth the names of the writers But what a mocker is this you saie Are the bare names of the Apostles sufficient to prooue that they were written by them who can prooue by scripture that these names are not counterfet as in the Epistle to the Laodiceans in the Gospells of Bartholomew and Thomas c. But abide you sir your question hath two branches the one that the 4. Go spells are true Gospells the other that the epistle to the Romanes was written by Saint Paul and not that to the Laodiceans To the former it is answered that they are prooued by other vndoubted bookes of the scripture both of the olde testament and the new secing they declare that to be fullfilled of Christ which was spoken in the lawe in the Prophetes and in the Psalmes To the other it is answered that admitting the Epistle to the Romanes to be scripture the inscription of his name is sufficient to prooue that it was written by Saint Paull And so of therest Although the name of the writer is not materiall vnto saluation when the booke is receiued to be Canonicall as diuers bookes of scripture are receiued whose writer is vnknowne That Epistle which is called to the Laodicians is not receiued and therefore the inscription is vnsufficient as the Gospelles of Bartholomew and Thomas and such like which are knowne to be countefet by the dissent they haue from the other canonicall scriptures Whereas you require one place of Scripture to prooue all the foure Gospelles to be canonicall you declare your wrangling and wayward spirit But name you anie one point of Doctrine writen in anie of those foure Gospells and the same shall be aduouched by other textes of scripture and so maie eucrie point conteined in them if neede were But you affirme that Origen saith he reiecteth the Gospell of Saint Thomas onelie for that the tradition of the Church receiued it not Which is false He saith he hath read the Gospell after Thomas after Mathias and manie other Sed in his omnibus nihil aliud probamus niss quod Ecclesia idest quatuor tantùm euangelia recipienda But in all these we allowe nothing els but that which the Church alloweth that is that onelie foure Gospells are to be receiued In these wordes he affirmeth that he approoueth the iudgment of the Church he saith not that the iudgement or traditions of the Church was the onelie cause whie he reiected those Gospells for he said before they were receiued of heretikes and wherefore but in maintenance of their heresie which is contrarie to the holie scriptures That all counterfet Go spells were reiected by the Church it is confessed but the Church had this iudgement of discretion confirmed by the canonical scriptures against which Epiphanius saith nothing But when Faustus the Manichie denied the Gospell of Saint Mathew saie you saith not S. Augustine Mathaei Euangelium probatum aduersus Faustum Manichaeum per traditionem The Gospell of Mathew was alleged against Faustus the Manichie by tradition August lib. 28. Cont. Faust. c. 2. If you aske me I saie no he hath no such wordes Yet doth he auouch the Gospell of Saint Mathew in that Chapter by testimonie of the Church from the Apostles by continuall succession euen vnto his time against the Maniches but in far other words then you haue set downe in steed of Saint Augustines wordes by which the reader maie once against perceiue how impudentlie and ignorantlie you ailedge whatsoeuer the note booke which was neuer of your own gatheriug because you vnderstood it not did minister vnto you For these are the wordes of the collector of your notes not of S. Augustine Maie not the papists haue great ioie of such a Cenfure defender Yet you triumph like a Iustie champion and aske what can be more euident then all this to prooue our opinion of the necessitie of tradition to confound the fonde madnes of this poore Minister Alas poore defender what waightie euidencethou hast brought to prooue the necessity of tradition which prooueth thee to be a blind beggerlie yet a bolde brocher of other mens notes which thou vnderstandest not thy selfe The seuenth doctrine which is required to be prooued out of the scripture is that God the father begat his sonne onelie by vnderstanding him-selfe Here Master Charke in steede of these darke wordes out of Thomas how the father begat the sonne wisheth cleare and perfect wordes in so high a mysterie which you saie are plaine and vsuall to those which haue studied any thing in diuinitie As though there were no diuinitie in the holie scriptures and so many of the auncient fathers which haue neither this question nor these wordes but that al diuinity were included in the brest of Thomas Aquinas and such doctors as he was That he quoteth a place or two of the scripture to prooue that Christ was the onelie begotten sonne of God you make smal account of seeing the question is of the maÌner how this generation maybe which the Church de fendeth against the aduersaries And here you insult against M. chark as ignorant in those high points of diuinitie whereas Catholiks know what the Church hath determined herein against heretikes and infidels as though either of both cared for the Churches determination if the one were not vanquished by scripture the other by right reason
Laodicea or from the Laodiceans which in sense maie be al one with the most vsuall reading that expresseth the preposition from Therefore it is true that Master Charke saith by both the editions and by the vulgar Latine text also that albeit manie make mention of an Epistle written by Saint Paull to the Laodiceans he him selfe maketh none The 12. section Of the Scriptures missalledged for the contrarie by M. Charke THe text is 2. Tim. 3. 16. 17. The wholl Scripture is inspired of God and is profitable c. The Censure had cauiled against his translation which it was nessarie for him to defend against which defence you haue nothing to replie and therefore begin with the first reason about profitable and sufficient Hetahis profitable sometimes shall import sufficient and not barelie profitable as for example when some reason is adioyned why it should be profitable nothing els applied or seruing to that effect as when the Apostle writeth that godlines is profitable to al things hauing the promises of this life and of the life to come where profitable importeth sufficient for the obtaining of all good thinges of both liues Against this you trifle First that it is but a slender argument to inferre one particular of an other But if your eies were matches your might see a particular inferred of an vniuersall Whersoeuer some reason is alledged whie a thing should be so prositable that nothing els is necessarie for the effect there profitable importeth sufficient as in that example godlines is profitable for all thinges c. But so it is in the text in question therefore in that text profitable importeth sufficient Neuertheles in your opinion M. Charke is vttrerlie deceiued in this example of godlines which by the ãâã of Saint Ambrose Saint Ierome and Saint Augustine importeth no more but that godlines hath her promises of reward in all actions whether they be about matters of this life or of the life to come So that the meaning is that pietie meriteth in all actions but is not sufficient to the obtaining of all good thinges of both liues First concerning Saint Ambrose reade him who will vpon this text and he shall finde the contrarie Pietati operam dandam commonet quia grandem habet presectum Qui enim misericordiae student senioribus ãâã reddentes parentibus in presenti vita auxilia Dei non ãâã in He admonisheth to labour in godlines because it hath greas profit For they that are mercifull ãâã their olde Parents loue they shall ãâã mant the helpe of God in this present life and in the world to come they shalhaue immortalitie with glorie Againe omnis enim ãâã discipline ãâã in misericus dia pietate est All the summe of our discipline is in ãâã and pietie Now pietie as you confesse comprehendeth charitie and the loue of God And therefore in the end Saint Ambrose after he hath shewed that bodelie exercise taken for fasting and abstinence without godlines shal haue ãâã punishment concludeth that fasting and abstinence of men that are spirituall being to the end of pietie is comprehended therein S. Ieromes wordes vpon this text are no more but these Et ãâã tempus in futurum nam ipsa vidua in presenti casta est merces eius manetinea Godlines is profitable c. both for the present time for the time to come For euen the widow her selfe is both chast in the present time her reward abideth in her What is here against the sufficiencie of pietie S. Augustine de morib Eccles. lib. 1. c. 33. hath onelie these wordes ãâã to this text speaking of the godlie life of Christians liuing vnder discipline in citties Ita pietatem sedulò exercent corporis verò exercitationem vt ait idem Apostolus ad exiguum tempus ãâã nouerunt So they exercise godlines diligentlie as for corporall exercise as the same Apostle saieth they knowe to pertaine but to a short time Where is here either the vnsufficiencie orthe merit of godlines for the promise of reward is of mercie not of merit This reason therefore of Master Charkes for the safficiencie of the Scripture standeth im mooueable seeing the Scripture is so profitable to all points of doctrine that nothing els is required to perfection The second reason you saie he frameth in these wordes That which is profitable to all the partes which maie be required to perfection cannot but be sufficient for the perfection of the wholl but that the Scripture is profitable in such manner the Apostle doth fullie declare in rehearsing all the particular partes which are necessarie and adding also after generallie that the man of God maie be perfect ãâã the Scripture is ãâã Here of your charitie you praie God to helpe Master Charke ãâã him that he is a simple one to take controuerfies in hand And then you aske what boie in Cambridge would haue reasoned thus And whie all this forsooth euery boie knoweth there is a cause sine qua non which is not onelie profitable but also necessarie to all partes whereof it is such a cause and yet it is not sufficient alone either to the partes or to the wholl as the head is ãâã for all the actions of this life as to sing weepe dispute yet is it not sufficient alone to performe these actions Therefore it followeth not that whatsoeuer is profitable to all particular partes should be sufficient to all Dij te Damasyppe ãâã verunrob consilium ãâã tonsore Or as we saie in English the vicar of fooles be your Ghosllie father Did you learne when you were a boic in Cambridge orOxford to repeate your aduersaries proposition by halfes then to confute as much there of as you list Looke backe you shall finde that his proposition is not what soeuer is profitable to all particular parts is sufficient for the wholl but whatsoeuer is profitable to all the partes which maie be required to perfection is sufficient for the perfection of the wholl or whatsoeuer is so profitable to euery part as maketh the wholl perfect is sufficient to the wholl Against these propositions if you haue anie thing to obiect perhappes we shall haue it in your next replie for hetherto you haue said nothing and his argument standeth still His third reason is taken of the wordes of S. Paull immediatlie before where he saieth vnto Timothie That the holie Scriptures which he had learned from his infancie were able to make him wise vnto saluation So the argument is this that which is able to make a man wise vnto saluation is sufficient the holy scriptures are of ability to make a man wise vnto saluation ergo they are sufficient But this you denie What I praie you for I hope the ãâã be rightlie framed In effect the minor which is the very wordes of Saint Paull For as though either you knew not or cared not for the originall text which saith ãâã ãâã ãâã
ãâã ãâã which are able to make thee wise you harpe onelie vpon the word of instructing which the vulgar interpreter vseth not sufficient to answere the greeke verb ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and yet if it be rightlie vnderstood as perhappes he meant it signifieth to furnish and not to teach properlie so the sense might be that the scripture is able to furnish thee with knowledge to saluation and that ãâã a sufficiencie Now to your pelting cauilles You aske if the Scriptures which can shew Timothie the waie to saluation and bring him also to it if he will follow them be sufficient for the wholl Church so that all Doctrine by tradition is superfluous I answere yea For there is but one waie to saluation for all the Church But you obiect that euerie Epistle of Saint Paull enstructeth a man to saluation yet it not sufficient for the wholl Church I answere that euerie Epistle of Saint Paull is not sufficient to instruct a man to saluation or to make him wise vnto saluation But that which Saint Paull spaketh is of the wholl scripture not of euery epistle For you might as well obiect that euery chapter and verse instructeth a man toward saluation rather then to saluation but not sufficientlie yet the wholl is able to make a man wise vnto saluation Your second obiection is that the Apostle speaketh principallie of the olde Testament and will Master Charke saie that the olde Testament is sufficient to Christian men for their saluation without anie other writt Yea I warrant you for there is no Doctrine in the new but it was taught in the olde Saint Paull affirmeth that he said nothing but that which the Prophetes and Moses had spoken of thinges to be performed The new Testament hath no other Doctrine then the olde onelie it testifieth the performance of those thinges in Christ which the olde Testament foreshewed to be performed Againe because you grate so much vpon the exclusion of other writt Saint Paull addeth by faith in Iesus Christ which containeth all that is written in the new Testament concerning the storie of performancet and seales of this faith And if the olde were sufficient how much more is the olde the new together a rich aboundant Doctrine The ãâã that you make against his translation of the wholl Scripture which you would referre to euerie Scripture is answered before the translation must be according to the circumstance of the place Euerie Scripture which is euerie seuerall booke or euerie seuerall Chapter or euerie seuerall verse is not able to make the man of God perfect and perfectlie prepared to euerie good worke but the wholl is therefore the translation must be the whole scriptures and not euerie scripture But now to your tow reasons In the first you saie that Saint Paull could not meane to Timothie of all the scriptures together which we now vse for that all was not then written To this you confesse that he answereth there was inough written then for the susficient saluation of men of that time and therest is not superfluous But this you saie is from the purpose Yea is how so I praie you you answere it was sufficient with the supplie by worde of ãâã vnwritten but that is contrarie to the purpose for Master Charke telleth you that from the time that any ãâã was written that scripture contanied sufficient ãâã to saluation without anie supply of anie other Doctrine that was not in that Scripture comprehended although preaching and other meanes were necessarie to reach men which is beside the purpose Before the scripture was written the same doctrine in substance was deliuered by reuelation that afterwarde was written The continuance thereof was not onelie by bare tradition but also in euerie age renewed by reuelation Againe the age of men was lo long that there remained alwaies faithfull and ceratine witnesses of the doctrine aliue so that it could not be corrúpted but it was easie by those witnesses to be refuted But when the age of man was drawne into the streights of 70. yeares or litle more as Moses sheweth the Doctrine of the Church was committed to writing euen as much at the first as was sufficient for the instruction of the people vnto saluation without anie supplie of traditions The ãâã of the Prophetes and Apostles writinges is a more full and plentifull declaration of thesame Doctrine of saluation not anie addition of anie new Doctrine or waie to saluation Your second reason is that ãâã partes of scripture be wanting now which were in Saint Pauls time But that you are not able to prooue For although there is mention in the olde testament of diuerse bookes written by Prophets which are not now extant yet it followeth not that those were extant in Saint Pauls time And if any were yet were they but explications and interpretations of the bookes of Moses which are extant euerie syllable and pricke and shall be to the ende of the world But Epiphanius affirmeth that all thinges cannot be taken from the scripture wherefore the Aposties ãâã somethings in writing and somethings in tradition To this I answere first that Saint Paul is greater then Epiphanius Secondlie that Epiphanius saith not that anie thing necessarie to saluation cannot be taken out of the scripture For he speaketh onelie of this opinion that it is sinne to marrie after virginitie decreed which neuertheles maie be taken out of the scripture if the vow were aduisedlie taken and no necessitie of incontinencie requiring mariage But of tradition we shall haue further to consider in the next section The thirteenth section intituled Of teaching traditions besides the scripture Art 5. GOtuisus reporteth the Iesuits to saic that the want of holie scriptures muste be supplied by peecing it out by traditions Cens. f. 220. Here you repeat your olde friuolous quarrel that the Iesuites haue no such vnreuerent words Master Chark chargeth you out of Hosius with a farre worseisaying that if traditions be reiected the verie Gospell it selfe seemeth to be reiected For what els are traditions then a certaine liuing Gospell But thereto you answere not one worde and the meaning of those words reported by Gotuisus you mainteine egerlie thorouhout this section as you did in parte in the 12. section that the scriptures are not sufficient and that there must be traditions receiued beside the scripture To what ende but to supplie the want and insufficiencie of the holie scriptures Nay saie you Though both parts of Gods worde that is both written and vnwritten be necessarie vnto Gods Church yet both of them do stand in their full perfection assigned them by God neither is the one a maime or impeachment to the other You meane they are as perfect as God made them not that the written word is sufficient to teach all trueth vnto the perfection of the man of God And so for all your vaine compasse of wordes the sense is all one The scripture is but a part or a
peece of Gods worde and traditions are an other peece and this peece must be added to that or els it is not a perfect or sufficient instruction of itselfe for Gods Church The comparison you make of ioyning S. Lukes Gospell to that of Saint Matthew or Saint Paules epistles to them both to resemble your patching of traditions to the written word of God is both odious and vnlike and without begging the wholl matter in question gaineth nothing For the adding of the writings of one Euangelist to another or of an Apostle to the Euangelistes is but the heaping of heauenlie treasure to the further inriching of the Church in all light of spirituall knowledge so the accession of the bookes of the new testament is as it were the vnfolding or laying open of the same diuine riches that was perfectlie contayned in the olde testament for the saluation of all Gods elect that liued vnder that discipline But your traditions as you maintaine them argue an insufficiencie of the holie scriptures which allso you confesse your selfe and are not a more plaine or plentifull application of the mysteries comprehended in them Therefore though you can for manners sake otherwhile forbeare odious speeches aginst the dignitie of holie scriptures yet euen that odious conclusion gathered by Gotuisus must needes follow of your doctrine concerning the insufficiencie of scriptures and the necessitie of traditions That your traditions are Gods word and of equall authoritie with the scriptures you promise to shew more largelie in the twelft article together with certaine meanes how to know and discerne the same Sed haec in dicm minitave Parmeno You haue taken a pretie pause of three yeares long since you were interrupted as you ãâã in the end by a writte de remouendo But the daie will come that shall paie for all Whether anie cause or matter hath beene ministred by you of odious speeches against the dignitie of holie scriptures Mastet Charke declareth by one example out of Hosius which with all the rest that he saith you omit to answer as trifling speech to litle purpose So whatsoeuer by anie colour of reason you can not auoid by your censorious authoritie you maie contemne and passe ouer But his conclusion seemeth worthie the answer which he maketh in these wordes To conclude it is a great iniquitie to adde traditions or your vnwritten verities to the written word of God whereunto no man maie adde because nothing is wanting from which no man maie take because nothing is superfluous But to him that addeth shall the curses written in the booke be added for euer Against this conclusioÌ you note in the margent great iniquitie to adde one veritie to another or to beleeue two verities together A fine ieste but a grosse begging of the wholl cause For who shal graunt that your vnwritten vereties be truth and not falsehood falselie by you termed verities vnwritten There is no veritie of matters necessarie to be knowne vnto saluation which is not written in the holie scriptures that are hable to make vs wise vnto saluation But good Lord what a sturre you keepe because M. Chatk noteth in the margent Apoc. 22. ask how this place is alledged against you c. As though that which is true of one booke yea of euery booke of the scripture maie not iustlie be verefied of the wholl bodie and boke of the the Bible Because adding to the word of god argueth imperfection in the word of god Your stale obiection of Saint Iohns Gospell written after the Reuelation is alreadie answered For al bookes of scripture that haue beene written since the fiue bookes of Moses are no addition to the word of God but a more cleere explication of the ãâã first com mitted to writing by inspiration of God Neither do they teach an other waie of saluation then Moses did but set forth the same more plainlie by demonstration by examples of Gods iustice and his mercie by threatenings by exhortations by explication of his promises by shewing the accomplishment and the manner of perfourmance of them in Christ and his Church And this they do moste absolutelie sufficiently and plentifully to the saluation of Gods people These things saith S. Iohn are written that you should beleeue that Iesus is Christ the sonne of God and that beleeuing you maie haue euerlasting life in his name Here you maie as well cauill that not onelie the Gospell of Saint Iohn or the miracles written in the same is necessarie to be beleeued vnto saluation but all the rest of the scripture also foolishlie opposing thinges that are no waie repugnant but the one including the other For the beleeuing of Saint Iohns Gospell doth not exclude but include all other bookes and partes of holie scripture which teach the same meane of saluation or any thing thereto pertaining But how holdeth this argument saie you no man maie adde to the booke of Apocalips ergo no man maie beleeue a tradition of Christ or his Apostles Maie we not as well saie ergo we maie not beleeue the actes of the Apostles No sir for we make our argument in this man ner No man maie adde to the booke of the Apocalips much lesse may anie man adde to the wholl Bible of the olde and new testament And consequentlie there are no traditions of Christ and his Apostles to be credited as needefull to saluation which are not contained in the holy scriptures Thus we alledge scriptures and thus we argue vppon them not as it pleaseth you to deseant vpon our allegations and to dissigure our arguments But it is lamentable you saie to see the ãâã dealings of these men in matters of such importance It is verie true vnderstanding you and your complices to be the men that vse such fleightes in ãâã waightie causes As for our doctrine is plaine without any seame that the scriptures are sufficient to saluation therfore al tradition besides them are ãâã to that purpose But let vs see who ãâã sleightes by your iudgement First you aske Master Charke what he ãâã by adding Who doth adde Or in what sense as though his meaning and sense of adding were not manifest as also his accusation that the I suites the Papistes do adde to the word of God their traditions a necessarie to saluation yet not expressed or contained in the word of God But if God saie you left anie doctrine by tradition vnto the Church and our ancetours haue deliuered the same vuto vs especiallie those of the ãâã Church what shall we do in this case Shall we refuse it It seemeth dangerous and I see no reason The question is not whether we should refuse anie thing that God hath left but whether God hath left anie such tradition to be beleeued vnto salua tion which is not contained in the holie scriptures But if our ancetours of the primitiue Church haue deliuered anie such tradition vnwritten as left by Christ what shall we doe you
Secondlie he speaketh of the fourth daies or Wednesdaies fast to be appointed by the tradition of the Apostles which yet neuerthelesse the Romish Church doth not obserue Thirdlie that the Pente cosse or fiftie daies by the tradition of Apostles are exempted from the Fridaie fast which tradition is not kept in the Popes Church except you will saie that Pentecost is taken for whitson weeke and then the custome of the PopishChurch is directlie contrarie to the tradition of the Apostles for Wednesdaie and Fridaie that weeke are ãâã daies And as for the Wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie Epiphanius is so earnest that he addeth further Deinde verò st non de eodem argumento quartarum Prosabbatorum ijdem Apostoli in constitutione dixissent etiamaliter vndique demonstrare possemus Attamen de hoc exactè scribunt Assumpsit autem ecclesta in toto mundo assensus factus est c. And moreouer if the same Apostles in their constitutions had not spoken of the same argument of wednesdaies Fridaies we could otherwise throughly make proofe of it But they write exactly ofit and the Church hath taken it vp assent hath bin geuen in al the world You see he alledgeth not onely a decree of the Apostles but also the consent of all the world for the wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie fast So that if the Apostles tradition beside the scripture be necessarie for lent whie is it not also for wednesdaies fast And if wednesdaies faste is not necessarie no more is lent fast Further you affirme that Dionystus and Tertullian saie that praiers and oblations for the dead are traditions of the Apostles De Eccles. hier c. 7. de corona milit but Dionystus al beit we do not acknowledge him for a man of such antiquitie as the papists would obtrude him yet hath not any mention of traditions of the Apostles in that Chap ter touching praier for the dead but either of tradition in scripture orels at large endeuoring to prooue that he saith by scripture Tertullian in the place quoted speaketh onelie of oblations for the dead in that yearelie day which maie signifie thanksgiuing as pro nataliliis for their birth doth in in the verie same clause Not denying yet but Tertullian when he forsooke the Church and became a Montanist yealed to praier for the dead as a thing reuealed by the spirit aud new prophecie of Montanus Last of all you saie Saint Basill teacheth that the consecration of the fant before baptisme the exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized their anointing with holie chrisme and diuerse like thinges are deliuered to vs by prescript of Christ and his Apostles lib. de spi. 5. cap. 27. Of consecration or blessing of the water to the holie vse of baptisme of those that are to be baptized there neede no tradition to be alledged the scripture is sufficient in the institution of baptisme whereby both the water and the perfon are dedicated to God aud his holie worke of regeneration The anointing with chrisme seemeth at the first to haue beene the signe of the giftes of the holie Ghost which were wont to be graunted with baptisme which though it had beene vfed by the Apostles in baptisme yet that particular grace being ceased which to signifie it was vsed it hath no longer anie profitable vse in the Church As for exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized Is is your owne addition for Saint Basill hath it not But where you saie he hath diuers like thinges as deliuered by traditian it is verie true and among them this sor example that it is necessarie for the children of the Church to praie standing on the Lords daie But this necessitie euen in the popish Church is notacknowledged therefore whatsoeuer he saieth is a tradition of the Apostles is necessarieto be kept of all Christians although all the Church in his time beleeued it as that which Epiphanius reporteth of the wednesdaies fast before spoken of You demaund vpon what ground you shall discredit or reiect these traditions deliuered by such fathers cheife Doctors and pillers of the Church Euen by the same ground that you giue ouer other traditions deliuered by the same persones either because they are not true traditions or els because they are not necessarie for the Church albelt they were deliuered as no doubt some ceremoniall matters were euen by the Apostles them selues Your other reasons are friuolous That they were neerer the Apostles then we For the neerest and moste immediat successours to the Apostles Policarpus and Anicetus could not agree vpon the tradition of the Apostles one of them building vpon Iohn the other vpon Peter as is testified by Eusebius out of Irenaeus in the place before cited An other reason is that they were honest men and would not deceiue vs willinglie And so much we acknowledge yet might they be deceiued in ascribing the common practise of their time to Apostolike tradition and so deceiue vs vnwittinglie nor be controlled because the custome generall acceptation of that ceremonie restreined men Which things considered it is a great iniquitie as Master Charke saieth to adde traditions to the written word of God as if of it selfe it were not sufficient to instruct the Church in all thinges necessarie to saluation That which followeth of Doctor Fulkes handling the olde Fathers about traditions is answered by himselfe in his confutation of popish quarrells from pag. 55. to pag 61. After this you cite foure seuer all Doctors in defence of traditions vnwritten whereunto as some of auncient writers were too much inclined so haue you not so sure ground out of them for your popish traditions as you purpose And to beginne with Basill who by Apostolike traditioÌ defendeth the custome of the Church which was to sing Glorie be to the Father and to the sonne with the holie Ghost whereas the heretikes would haue it in the holie Ghost and cauilled that the other forme was not in the scriptures Saint Basil mainteineth it as agreeable to the scriptures by authoritie of auncient tradition although it were not expressed in so manie wordes in the scriptures as manie other thinges are which haue like force vnto pietie with those that are dilinered in expresse wordes as for example he alledgeth the confession of the faith in the ãâã which no man doubteth to be sufficientlie tanght in the scriptures although the verie wordes of our creed are not expressed in such for me As we rehearse our creede I omit ãâã things saieth he the verie confession of faith in which we beleeue in the father the sonne the holie Ghost in what scripture haue we it Againe And if they doe reiect the manner of glorifying of god as not written let them bring forth demonstration in writing of the confession of faith of other things that we rehearse By which it is manifest that the traditions he speaketh of are of two sortes the one
the sense and true meaning of thinges them-selues And this is Chrisostomes meaning not of traditions altogether without the compasse of the scriptures and yet held necessarie to saluation For of the sufficiencie of the scri ptures he speaketh in diuers places and namelie vppon that cleere text 2. Tim. 3. Hom 9. of the scripiure he saith Siquid vel diseere velignorare opus sit illic addiscemus If anie thing be needefisli to know or not to know in the scriptures we shall learne But because you saie those wordes of Saint Paulare cleere 2. Thess. 2. for vnwritten tradititions I praie you what argument can you conclude out of them Saint Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians something by preaching and something by writing ergo he deliuered something that is not contained in the holie scriptures written either by himselfe or anie other of the holie men of God appointed for that purpose Who is so childish thinke you to graunt you this consequence therefore for anie thing you haue brought or can bring or anie thing that the fathers haue said or can saie the word of God writ ten is perfect and hable to make a man wise to saluation by faith in Iesus Christ which is to be had sufficientlie in the holie scriptures as Christ him-selfe doth witnes Iohn 5. 39. And so the former conclusion doth still stand It is great iniquitie to receiue traditions altogether beside the holie scripture as necessarie to saluation which must needes argue the holie scriptures of imperfection and vnsufficiencie Neither doth the consent of Antiquitie refute this assertion of Master Charke seeing the auncients as it is said spake either of doctrine not expressed in word but contained in deede in the scriptures or els of rites and ceremonies the perpetuall obseruation where of is not necessatie to eternall life as is prooued by the discussing of manie of them which the elder fathers do father vpon the tradition of the Apostles as much as anie other that they name And if you saie they were deceiued in such as are abolished how shall we know that ãâã not in such as are retained For in their ãâã they were all generallie receiued as ãâã ãâã as well such as are discontinued as those ãâã remaine ãâã if any man will aske you what be these Apostolicall ãâã in particuler you could alleadge him testimonies ãâã auncient fathers for a great number But you referr ãâã Saint Cyprian Serm. de ablut pedum Tertullian ãâã milit and Saint Hieron dialog contra Luciferianos ãâã say he shall finde store Belike your note booke ãâã you thither although you listed not to take so ãâã ãâã your selfe but turne it ouer to your ãâã Howbert he that is disposed to read the sermon ãâã Cyprian shall finde no store at all but of the necessitie of washing offcete which ceremonie was taken by the example of Christ yet is not thought necessarie in the Popish Church at this daie Tertullian in deede hath some prety store yet not to mantaine popish traditions so much as to ouerthrow them For he ãâã some things that are taken out of the scripture as to renounce the deuill in Baptisme c. some that are growne out of vse manie hundred yeares agoe as that the baptized should taste of milke and honie that they should abstaine from washing seauen daies after That men should signe their forheade at euerie steppe and proceeding going forth and comming home at putting on of apparell and at pulling on of shooes at washings at table at lighting of candells at beddes at stooles at all times and places Saint Hierome also in the person of the heretike rehearseth traditiones and among them such as Papistes do not obserue namelie the mixture of milke and honie geuen to them that are newlie baptized On the Lords daie and during the wholl time of Pentecoste neither to kneele in praiers nor to fast These are parte of those Apostolical traditions in particular which if they had beene necessary to saluation must haue beene perpetuallie continued If they were vntruelie ascribed to the Apostles what wartant can we haue of any other seeing the most auncient writers commend these as much as anie other for Apostolicall traditions Yet a few other examples you wil adde out of Saint Augustine whoe prooueth baptisme you sare by tradition of the Church lib. 10. de gen ad lit cap. 23. to this answere hath beene made sufficientlie in the 11. section that Saint Augustine doth not defend baptisme of infants onelie by the custome of the Church but also by the scriptures Likewise you saie he prooueth by the same tradions that we must not rebaptize those which are baptized of heretikes lib. 2. de bapt capt 7. lib. 1. cap. 23. lib. 4. cap. 6 It is true that he perwsadeth him selfe that this custome of not rebaptizing came from the Apostles tradition yet doth he by many arguments out of scripture prooue that such are not to be baptized againe which haue beene once baptized although by heretikes and therefore he saith of the same matter Hoc planè verum est quia ratio veritas consuetudini praeponenda est Sed cùm consuetudini veritas suffragatur nihil oportet firmius retineri This is plainlie true that reason and truth is to be preferred before custome but when truth consenteth with custome nothing ought more steadefastlie to be ãâã You see therefore that he buildeth not onelie vppon custome or tradition which is the matter in question but vppon trueth and reason which is founded by the holie scriptuers Your middle quotation de bap lib. 1. cap. 23. you may correct against your nextreplie for there are but 19. Chapters in that booke Againe you saie He prooueth by tradition the celebration of the Pentecost commonlie called Whitsontide ep 11 c. 1. If it were as you saie it is but a matter of ceremony not necessarie to saluation but in the power of the Church to alter as many like which are abrogated But in trueth he prooueth it not as you say by tradition For these are his wordes Illa autem quae non scripta c. But those thinges which are kept beeing not written but deliuered which are obserued thoroughout all the worlde it is giuen to be vnderstoode that they are retained as commended and decreed either by the Apostles them-selues or by generall Councells the authoritie of which is moste whollesome in the Church as that the passion of our Lord and his resurrection ascension into heauen and the comming of the holie ghoste from heauen are celebrated with yearelie solemnitie You see by his owne wordes that he is not certaine whether he should laie this ceremoniall celebration vpon deliuery of the Apostles or vpon decrees of general coun cells And whencesoeuer they came the matter is not great in such thinges as of their owne nature are indifferent and therefore alterable by discretion of the Church in all times Whether the Apostles were baptized which is
the next matter that you saie he prnoueth by tradition it is a question not so needefull to be decided although it may be prooued out of scripture that some of them which were Iohns disciples were baptized by him and so it is like were all the rest seeing Ierusalem and all Iurie and all the coast neere vnto Iordan were baptized by Iohn euen to the Pharisees and Saduces Publicans and souldiers it is not probable that the Apostles whoe before their calling by Christ were of honest and deuout conuersation did neglect that diuine institution which all men that would seeme to be religious made hast to receiue Furthermore you saie he prooueth by tradition the ceremonies of baptisme as deliuered by the Apostles lib. de fide Oper. cap. 9. The question is whether the Eunuch whome Philip baptized made such profession of his faith c. renouncing of the deuill as is required of them that are baptized when the scripture maketh mention onelie of a short confession that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God Where Saint Augustine sheweth that the holie ghost would haue vs to vnderstand that althinges were fulfilled in his baptisme which though they be not expressed in that scripture for breuities sake yet by order of the tradition we know that they are to be fulfilled Where tradition is not taken for that which is altogether beside the scripture but that which according to the scripture deliuereth what is to be obserued concerning the celebration of that sacrament which is the seale of mortification and regeneration That the Lordes supper should be receiued before other meates he thinketh of it as of other ceremontall matters that it came either from Apostolike tradition or from decrees of generall councell yet is it a thing not necessarie alwaies to be obserued for your selues doe housell sicke folkes at all times of the daie or night without respect whether they haue tasted any thing or no otherwise as a matter of order and decencie it is obserued of vs also to minister that sacrament before dinner and to them that be fasting if the case of necessity require not the contrarie Yet againe you saie he prooueth by tradition the exorcisme of such as should be baptized l. de nupt concu cap. 20. l. 6. cont Iulian. c. 2. But the truth is that by the ceremonie of exorcisme exsufflation and renunciation that is vsed in baptisme he goeth about to prooue that infantes before baptisme be in originall sinne and in the power of the deuill as is euident by both the places which prooue not exorcisme to haue beene receiued by tradition but by the end of that ceremonie vpon what beginning soeuer vsed in the Church at that time that infants are borne in originall sinne and subject to the power of Sathan before they be baptized The wordes of the former place are these In veritate itaque non in falsitate c. In truth therefore not in falsehoode the deuils power is exorcised in infants and they renounce him by the heartes and mouthes of their bearers because they cannot by their owne that beeing deliuered from the power of darke nes they may be translated into the kingdome of their Lorde Here is neuer a word of traditioÌ The second place hath these words Sedetsi nullaratione indagetur nullo sermone explicetur verum est tamen quòd antiquitas c. But although it originall sinne may be sought out by noe reason by no speach it may be expressed yet is it true that by true Catholike faith from auncient time is preached and beleeued thoroughout the wholl Church which would neither exorcise nor exsufflate the children of the faithfull if shee did not deliuer them from the power of darkenes and from the prince of death Here the auncient doctrine of original sinne is confirmed by the olde ceremonies of exorcisme and exsufflation which were vsed in baptisme to signifie that infants were by that sacrament deliuered from the guilt of originall sinne by which they were vnder the power of darkenes and death But that these ceremonies were Apostolike traditions he saith not or that they are of necessitie to ãâã vsed in baptisme when the one of them namelie ãâã is not vsed at this day for ought I know in the Popish forme of baptisme The Moscouites in place of it as it seemeth vse excreation For when the Godfathers and Godmothers answere that they renounce the deuil they spit out one the earth as it were in signe of detestation In Saint Augustines time they vsed to blow out In the last place you saie he prooueth by the same tradition that we must offer vp the sacrifice of the masse for the dead lib. de cura pro mort agenda cap. 1. 4. serm 32. de verbis Apostoli Of the sacrifice of the Masse Saint Augustine speaketh nothing but that praiers were offered for the dead at the celebration of the Lordes supper which he calleth sacrifice he saith it was by authoritie of the whol Church which was notable in that custome and that the wholl Church obserued it as deliuered from their fathers But seeing the elder Church for more then an hundred yeares after Christ had no such custome nor doctrine and especiallie seeing the same custome is against faith taught in the holie scriptures that the dead in the Lord are blessed that iudgement followeth immediatelie after death c. The authoritie of faith and trueth is to be preferred before the tradition and custome of men Neither is it to be thought to haue proceeded from the Apostles which is disprooued by the writings of the Apostles the onelie certaine witnes of the doctrine deliuered by them which is necessarie for vs to beeleeue and follow And therefore this new sir Censurer doth greatlie abuse the olde saints whome he would haue patrones of his vnwritten verities partely in charging them to referre vnto tradition many things that they doe not partlie in drawing to doctrine necessarie that which they speake of ceremonies mutable not the least in picking out one or two ouersightes to be pardoned vnder colour of them to maintaine all the grosse heresies of Poperie that are intollerable The fourteenth section Whether the Iesuites speake euil of scripture Art 6. intituled Nose of waxe IF you had ser downe Master Charkes replie betweene your Censure and your defense as reason would you should haue done for men to iudge indifferentlie betweene both you might haue spared more then two pages which you haue spent in charging him with a slaunder of the Iesuites where he reporteth that they saie the scripture is a nose of waxe when they saie it is as a nose of waxe For no reasonable man can make any other sense of those wordes the scripture is a nose of waxe but euen the same that you confesse to be the saying of the Iesuites the scripture is as a nose of waxe as Master Charke telleth you And moreouer that Paiua saith the fathers
of Colene in a moste apt similitude called the scripture a nose of waxe and Pighius the leaden rule of the Lesbian building But now concerning the matter it selfe You would shift it of by saying The Iesuites doe compare the hereticall wresting and detorting of scripture vnso the bowing of a nose of waxe vpon certaine circumstances which are these First not in respect of the scripture it selfe but in respect of heretikes and other that abuse it and that before the rude people that cannot iudge thirdlie to the ende to flatter Princes or the people in their vices Thus much was said before in the Censure But it was replied that Andradius confesseth the fathers of Colene doe saie that the holie scripture is as a nose of wax So doth Pighius and it is a thing more commonlie knowen then that it can be denied Therefore the wresting of the scripture is not compared by them to the bowing of a waxen nose but the scripture it selfe to a nose of wax as that which is as easie to be drawne into any sense as a nose of wax may be turned euerie waie The wordes of Pighius are plaine Sunt enim scripturae velut caereus quidam nasus qui sicut hor sum illor sumque facilè se trahi permittit quo traxeris haud inuitus sequitur ita illae se flecti duci atque etiam in diuer sam sententiam trahi accomodarique ad quid-uis patiuntur nist quis veram illam inflexibilemque earundem amussim nempe Ecclesiasticae traditionis authoritatem communemque sententiam ilsdem adhibeat For the holie scriptures are as it were a certaine nose of wax which as it easelie suffereth it selfe to be drawne this waie and that waie and whether soeuer you draw it is followeth not vnwillinglie so also they doe suffer them selues to be bowed to be led and also to be drawen into a contrarie meaning and to be applied vnto what you will except a man lay vnto them that true inflexible rule of them namelie the authoritie and common vnderstanding of the Churches tradition These wordes declare if the sense of all Papists be the same that the Iesuites do not onelie compare the scripture it selfe but also that they make this comparison in respect of the scripture it selfe which suffereth it selfe as easelie to be wrested and abused as a nose of wax abideth to be bowed nor before the rude and ignorant onelie nor to flatter Princes and people in their vices alone but before any persons or to any purpose whatsoeuer and that there is not in them a certaine and infallible sense to iudge of the Churches doctrine or to finde out the true Church from all false congregations by the trueth taught in the scriptures but that the authoritie and common vnderstanding of the Popish Churches tradition is the onelie true sense inflexible rule of the holy scriptures wherebie also it is manifest though you denie it neuer so stoutlie that you doe impute the wresting of the scriptures vnto the imperfection of Gods worde set forth in them and not onelie to the malice of the wrester For if the will of God be but as well expressed in them as the will of princes is in their written lawes and proclamations the one maie as well be found out by reading and weighing of the holie scriptures as the other may be out of prophane writings especially where the spirit of God graunted vnto the praiers of the elect openeth their vnderstanding not onelie to conceiue as the naturall man maie by studie and ordinarie helpes the true scope and purpose of God vttered in them but also to beleeue and embrace whatsoeuer the Lord their God hath propounded in them Therefore though the scripture may be wrested to the destruction of the vngodlie as Saint Peter sheweth yet Master Charke telleth you that it cannot so be wrested but that still it remaineth the light vnto our feet and the lanterne vnto our steppes and euerie parte thereof is like the arme of a great Oke which cannot be so wreste but that with great force it will returne into the right position to the shame and perill of the wrester which answere of his you doe so dissemble as though you had neuer seene it And you doe wiselie seeing otherwise then by silence you could not auoid it But howsoeuer Master Charke storme you will defend your blasphemie of the nose of waxe not onelie in a kingdome where the Ghospell is preached but also in the kingdome of vs ministers where the letter of the scripture is worsse wrested by vs to all errors and licentiousnes then euerie waxen nose was yet bended to diuerse fashions O ye senseles papists had you neuer a man of moderat iudgement to set forth against vs but this loosetongued Gentelman which so he maie raile with full mouth against vs hath no care how his slaunders maie be coloured Doe we peruert the scriptures to all errors then surelie we holde no trueth there neuer was anie heresie neither can there be anie heresie but that with manie errors it maintaineth and holdeth manie truethes Yea the Deuill him-selfe the father oflies beleeueth some truethes and for shame dare not professe the maintenance of all errors We thinke verie hardlie of Antichrist and his brood the papists yet we maie not saie that they wrest the scriptures to all errors and licentiousnes for if they so did they should not deceaue so manie by shew of trueth in errors except they did professe some articles of trueth in deede As for the wresting of the Scripture to all licentiousnes let God and all the world of reasonable and indifferent men iudge how iustlie we maie be charged therewith If we be licentious in our liues God will finde it out and let man where he findeth it punish vs. But if we wilfully peruert the scriptures to the maintenance of all licentiousnes the Lord reward vs according to our deedes and be not mercifull to them that sinne of malicious wickednes But it is no fault in the scriptures saie you that they may be abused For Christ him-selfe was called the rocke of offence and the stone of scandall not for anie faulte or imperfection in him but through the wickednes of such as abuse that benefit So if the Iesuites had said no more but that the scripture maie be abused no man could haue found fault with them And Christ is called a stone of offence or stumbling not altogether in respect of the wicked that abuse him for he is called a stone moste precious and necessarie to build vpon of stumbling to those that refuse to build vpon him which meeting with him must either stumble and fall or els if it fall vpon them they must be ground to pouder But the the scripture is compared to a nose os wax because it is in their imagination that vse the comparison as pliant to follow euerie waie and to yeald as probable a sence one waie as an other as
a nose of wax is easie to be turned and shaped on euerie side or sort which if it were so must needes be a great fault in the scripture it selfe A hundred positiue lawes and statutes in England are so well penned as all the sophistical heads in christendome cannot finde a starting hole in them by anie peruerse interpretations but thatall they which haue but a meane skill in the lawes will laugh them to scorne And tha I we think so vnreuerently of the holy scriptures giuen by inspiration of god that euerie foolish heretike maie turne them about like a nose of wax but rather that in his said attempt of turning his folly shal be made manifest to al men Pighius saith expressely the scriptures are dumbe iudges as though Godspake not in them and by them vnto vs whose prophane comparison of the holie scriptures with prophane lawes which require Magistrates and iudges to punish the offenders of them euerie Christian man may perceiue to tende to the derogation of the maiesty of them As also euerie childe that hath studied logike but halfe a yeare maie vnderstand his beggerlie petition of the principle when appealing from the iudgement of the scriptures he will be iudged by none but by papists in controuersies and questions that we haue against the papists As for the blacke Gospell and Inkie diuinitie babled by Eccius against the written Gospell If Iesuits can maintaine as Catholike surelie Christians can not heare it without horror of blasphemie If there be no fault or imperfection in the scriptures how saith Pighius that euery man may euidently know without the scriptures in what order the Church is appointed by her author Againe of what moment is the holy scripture if it be not necessarie to decide all doubtes and controuersies in the Church for thus saith Pighius If we receaue the authoritie of the Churches tradition quam si recipimus omnis facilè etiam sine scriptur is inter nos componetur concertatio controuersia cùm de singulis nonfuerit admodum operosum inuenire quid Catholica ab initio Ecclesia senserit Which if we receiue all strife and controuersie betweene vs may easilie be compounded euen without the scriptures Seeing it is no very hard worke to finde out what the Ca tholike Church from the beginning hath thought of euerie question Thus the Ecclesiasticall tradition is set a loft and the holie scriptures excluded as superfluous and vnnecessarie seeing all questions may easilie be decided without them But to giue a better colour to your nose of waxe you saie Saint Ierome doth call the scriptures alledged corruptlie by Marcion and Basilides the diuells Gospell because the Gospell consisteth not in the words of scripture but in the sense But so doth not Christ call the scripture when it was alledged by the deuill neither doth Saint Ierome so call the scripture but the false sense feined by heretikes His wordes are these Grande periculum est in Ecclesia loqui ne fortè interpretatione peruersa de Euangelio Christi hominis fiat Euangelium aut quod peius est Diaboli It is great perill to speake in the Church least perhappes by peruerse interpretation of the Gospell of Christ be made the Gospell of man or that which is worse of the deuill And it is true which he saith The Gospell is not in the wordes but in the sense of the scriptures Yet it is also true that the sense of the scriptures is expressed in those wordes of the scriptures and not included in the Popes breast as the Papists would haue vs thinke that al labour bestowed in seeking the sense of the scriptures is in vaine except we take the interpretation of the Popish Church which sthe iudgement of the Pope as the sure rule to guide vs by But Saint Augustine you saie calleth the scripture the bowe of heretikes Which is not so for he compareth their wresting of the scriptures to the bending of a bowe Ecce inquiunt peccatores tetenderunt arcum credo scriptur as quas illi carnaliter interpretando venenatas inde sententias emittunt Beholde say they the sinners haue bent the bowe the scriptures I beleeue which while they interpret carnallie they send forth poysoned meaninges from them Further you saie Irenaeus compareth it abused by heretikes to a Iewel stamped with the forme of a Dogge or Fox Irenaeus speaketh not of the bodie of the scriptures but of wordes sentences and parables of scripture rent not onelie from their sense but also from their place and patched together with olde wiues fables to make a shew for heresie which is all one as he saith as if a man should breake an excellent Image of a king and when he hath fashioned the peeces beeing pearles or precious stones into the shape of a Fox or Dogge he would yet be so impudent to saie this is that excellent Image of the king which was made by a not able workman This soundeth nothing like the nose of waxe Likewise you saie Gregorie Nazianzen compareth the scripture to a siluer scabberd with a leaden sworde in it The comparison you speake of is in his poemes which I verelie am perswaded that you neuer read but were mocked by your notebooke as many times before For Gregorie compareth not the scriptures as you slaunder him but an hipocrite a man that hath nothing but an externall shew of religion to a leaden sworde in a siluer scabberde his verses are these if you could haue construed them ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã To these that you might seeme bountifull though you be a verie begger of your owne reading you adde Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis of which the former you saie compareth the scripture to the deceitfull ornaments of harlottes the other to poysoned hearbs couered in the Apothecaries shops with faire titles Wherein you slaun der them both for they compare not the wholl scripture as you doe in your nose of waxe but the hereticall bragges of scripture which as they may abuse a peece for a shew so are they confounded by the wholl when the same is rightlie weighed Therefore the comparisons of these auncient Doctors are no more like to your nose of waxe then your nose of waxe is like to the holie scriptures Neither doth the example of Luther calling the scriptures the booke of heretikes expounding him selfe why he so calleth it namely because it is depraued by heretikes defend the Iesuites which to the deprauation of the scriptures vse that similitude as Luther did not in his albeit he might as well haue forborne that title as his rash iudgement against those whome you call sacramentaries for as the one was vnprofitable so the other was vniust But if the Iesuites saie you had reiected any one booke of the scripture as the Protestantes doe many we might iustlie accuse them It is as great a fault to adde to the worde of God as to take from it The Protestantes reiect no booke
of the canonicall scripture which was receiued by Christ and his Apostles and the primitiue Church long after them But the Papists adde of their owne authoritie to the holie canon and therefore as much are they subiect to gods curse as if they did take away Neither doth Luther discredit or deface the whol epistle of Saint Iames as you saie although in comparison of some other bookes of scripture by a similitude he maketh it farre inferior to them What Doctor Fulke and Master Whitaker haue written the one of the booke of Maccaebees the other of Tobie they haue sufficientlie maintained in their replies whereunto I remit the reader and for Master Charkes reuiling of Iudith to the reporte of the disputation in which your impudent slaunder is confuted Where you conclude that no man in the world euer spake more reuerentlie of holie scripture then Iesuites do you ouer reach very much as you do very often They which teach that the holyscripture is sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation speake more reuerently then the Iesuits whichdeny the sufficiency of the scripture for the instru ction of the Church Last of al the Censure ridiculously charged M. Charke with fraudulent translation of this worde Immaculata when he alledgeth this text psal 19. as oppo sit to your nose of waxe The law of the Lord is perfect out of the original tongue the best translations from which the greek in sense dessenteth not not out of the olde latine translation Now you trifle to no purpose about the Hebrew Greeke Latine termes which to those that are but me anelie learned are well enough knowne what they signifie And first if you should graunt al that M. Chark said you thinke he had gained nothing For you also confes that the law of the Lord is perfect but not in that sense wherein M. Chark vsech it to wit that because the law of the Lord is perfect therefore the scripture cannot be wrested And afterward when you haue tolde vs that these wordes vnde filed irreprehensible and perfect which answer the latine greeke and Hebrue wordes ãâã not much in sense for whatsoeuer is irreprehensible and vnspotted may also be called perfect you conclude that this doth not prooue the scriptures to be perfect in sense in such sort as it maie not be wrested or peruerted You say true but it is false that Master Chark maketh anie such illation as you charge him For thus he inferreth the lawe of God is perfect ergo it cannot be wrested as a nose of wax or as his owne wordes are the scripture is perfect and manteineth her perfection against all corruptions as a right line sheweth it selfe bewraieth that which is crooked The lawe of a wise man as hath beene said before may be so perfect as it cannot be wrested like a nose of waxe into anie sense that the wrester wil imagine but that his vaine cauillation shall be odious and ridiculous to al men Much rather is the lawe of God so perfect as though all the deuilles in hell should breake their braines to wrest and peruertit yet can they neuer wrest it like a nose of wax to euerie side or shape but that the perfect sense of the scripture remaineth ful constant and manifest to them that haue the spirit of God yea euen to them that will iudge but indifferentlie according to right reason By the waie you charge Master Charke with railing and inueighing against your olde translation and with running he careth not whether forging he careth not what and reprehending he careth not whome yet in all that discourse he hath no more wordes of it but these your olde translation doth goe alone In which wordes what rayling running forging reprehending inueihing may be conteined let ihe wiser sort iudge and fooles learne to be wiser But where he saith that the best translations differ from the olde translation you aske what best or better or other good latine translation hath he then the olde As though none might be good but your olde translation I perceaue you would not acknowledge any good of them that were set forth by Munster Leo Iude or anie other professed protestant yet what saie you to the translation of Vatablus a famous and learned reader of Paris How dare you condemne the translation of Pagnine of the olde testament and Erasmus of the new testament as naught which the Pope allowed as good Finallie what exceptions can you take to the translation of Isidorus Clarius censured and approoued by the deputies of the Councell of Trent maie none of these be good better or best but that your olde translation hath the prerogatiue in goodnes in all degrees that it leaueth all other behinde it as nought O waightie censure of a wise Papist But let vs see wherein the excellencie of the olde translation doth consist as you suppose First you saie it was in vse in Gods Church aboue 13. hundred yeares past as maie be seene by the citations of the fathers which liued then But euen those verie citations doe prooue the contrarie at the least that it was not in generall vse in the latine Church Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted for the bowe of heretikes where your translation hath in obscuro did reade in obscura luna and standeth much vpon exposition of the darke moone Yea throughout the wholl Psalter whosoeuer wil compare the text which Saint Augustine vsed with your olde translation shall finde great difference betweene them But this your olde translation you tell vs was afterward oueruewed and corrected by Saint Ierome we know verie well that Saint Ierome did oueruew and correct a certaine auncient translation of the septuaginta that was vfed in his time But how are you hable to prooue that this your vulgar translation is the same either corrected or vncorrected For it appeareth by the citations of diuerse of the latine Church which liued after Saint Ierome that they vsed an other text then this translation euen vntill the daies of Bernard When you saie that this your olde translati on was highlie commended by Saint Augustine you make such a shameles ãâã as you obiect without shame to M. Charke when he saith that the Septuaginta agree with the hebrue in signification of the word perfecte for they saie irreprehensible which must needes be perfect but so is not your latine ãâã vnspotted or vndefiled which you your selfe in your censure do egerlie contend to be differing from perfection You name the translation of Erasmus and Luther of which the one translated onelie the new testament which Leo. 10. and Clemens 7. did both allow the other translated not the Bible at all in latine except perhappes some partes vpon which he wrote commentaries Here your Printer will make vs beleeue that you were remooued with a writ de remouendo so as you could proceede no further but now there is a writ de renouando sued against you if you
of his godhead which is proper vnto it Andwhatsoeuer in holie scripture is read to be exercised of him through the might of Gods spirit by the vertue of his annointing by the finger of God by the sending of the Father by power receiued from aboue by Priesthood praiers or sacrifice by the Sonne of man of the head of the Church or iudge of the liuing and dead whatsoeuer is in this sort said to be done it is not otherwise lightlie meant but in respect of Christs humanitie by which and in which he worketh the same not as by the proper and naturall power or force thereof but as by iurisdiction receiued of the blessed Trinitie and imploied vpon the sonne of man for the procuring of saluation to his people whereof he is become in our very nature the head FVLKE This generall rule is so abridged with the exception lightlie that it is hard to bring anie instance against it but Allen would haue his starting hole in it Neuerthelesse seeing he concludeth the examples before remembred to be included within this rule we maie be bolde to charge him with a spice of Nestorianisme seeing those workes which are certaine to haue beene the workes of the Mediator God and man he ascribeth to the onelie humanitie by iurisdiction receiued from the blessed Trinitie whereby it should followe that the worke of Christe in this respect should not differ from the workes of Moses Elias Dauid or anie of the Prophets whoe receiued iurisdiction from the blessed Trinitie whereby they performed manie workes which the same blessed Trinitie had appointed for the procuring of saluation vnto his people ALLEN Therefore no Christian man maie doubt but as our Sauiour by the omnipotent power of his Godhead might and did forgiue sinnes to the penitent so likewise that as he was Priest the sonne of man he might by the right of his office vnction and ministerie in the vertue of the holie Ghost remitte sinnes also And for that cause principallie in the Prophet Esay it is said Spiritus Dominisuper me eò quòd vnxerit me ad annunciandum mansuetis misit me vt mederer contritis corde praedicarem captiuis indulgentiam clausis apertionem The Spirit of the Lord vopn me because he hath annointed me and sent me to signifie vnto the meeke that I should heal the contrite in heart to preach pardon to the prisoners and freedome to the closed The which place of the Prophet our Sauiour applied vnto him selfe in the Church of Nazareth and is to be vnderstanded onelie of preaching and pardoning by the holie vnction of the Spirit of God and his Fathers calling And therefore it must needes according to Saint Augustines iudgement concerne the shape of his seruice and manhood taken on him in which he preached so that yet it pleased him to affirme that his Doctrine was not his owne but his Fathers that sent him and healed the contrite in heart which is nothing els but to forgiue sinnes to the penitent after such a sort that it might well appeare to be receiued and practised by the vnction of the Spirit of God and sending of his Father whereby the Sonne of man might doe that as Gods minister in his manhood in earth which both he and his eternall Father with the holie Spirit of them both doe worke by their owne one and equall authoritie in heauen euerlastinglie FVLKE And seeing he willeth vs to note the ground of the cause which is that Christ as he was Priest and the sonne of man might remit sinnes by a ministeriereceiued by vnction of the holie Ghost it is not lightlie to be passed ouer That the sonne of man had power vpon earth to forgiue sinnes he him-selfe affirmeth Mat. 9. 6. but this was the power of his godhead which was not restreined nor abased by the shape of a seruant in which he appeered on earth That he was authorized by vnction of the holie Ghost to preach remission of sinnes vnto the penitent it pertaneth indeede vnto him in respect of his manhood although Saint Augustine in the place by Allen quoted saieth not so but citeth the place of Esaie to prooue that Christ in respct of his humanity was inferior to the holy Ghost but that this is all the power that Christ had vpon earth to remit sinnes it is not prooued by anie argument For this ministerie of reconciliation to remit sinnes by preaching of the Gospell doth remaine still with the Church the other that was proper to his Deitie no mortall man without Sacriledge can arrogate or vsurpe ALLEN And though God hath neuer ãâã mans fall vsed the meanes and seruice of man to his restore againe and to the reliefe of his lackes and therefore hath giuen authority by his holie spirite and vnction to diuerse of the olde law to offer sacrifice praier and procure remission to the people of all their offences and no lesse ãâã occasion serued and the matter required to correct their misdeedes by iudgement and iurisdiction giuen vnto them for which soueraigne calling they were called the annointed of God an externall ceremonie of anoyting being solemnelie annexed thereunto yet our Lord an Master whether you consider his high Priesthoode by which in moste ample manner through commission receiued he maie procure our pardone or his calling to be head of the Church by which he ruleth and keepeth all the bodie in due subiection and order or his ministerie of preaching whereby farre aboue all the Prophets and preachers of the olde law he openeth to his flock the Church the secret mysteries of Gods trueth Christ I saie in all these respectes being man is yet much more abundantlie blessed and anointed without comparison aboue all his fellowes and copartners as the holy Prophet Dauid doth testifie Vpon whose wordes touching that matter Saint Hilarie writeth thus Vnxit te Deus Deus tuus oleo exultationis prae participibus tuis non secundùm sacramentum aliud quà m secundùm dispensationem assumpti corporis Vnctio enim illa non beatae illi incorrupt in natura dei man enti natiuitati profecit sed sanctificationi hominis assumpti Nam in Actis ait Petrus vnxit illum Deus in spiritu sancto virtute Thus he meaneth in English God etien thy God hath anointed thee with the oile of ioy farre aboue thy copartners not in anie other meaning but according to the dispensation of a bodie receaued For that vnction could not be beneficiall to the holie vnspotted and euerlasting natiuitie in the nature of his Godhead but onelie it was agreeable to the mysterie of his manhood and flesh assumpted in his temporal natiuitie whereof Saint Peter speaketh in the Actes that God hath annointed him with the holie ghost and with power The holie Father also Saint Cyrill agreeth hereunto confessing that all this honour power and authoritie which the Prophets haue signified so long before by the annointing of the sonne of God came vnto Christ in consideration
or vnoccupied in the worke of our redemption yea that the godhead did not worke the principall and moste necessarie part thereof it is too too abominable and intollerable heresie Out of the like stinking puddle it proceedeth that you saie that the holie Trinitie being of infinit power to worke their will in all creatures yet would not repaire the world nor remit our sinnes anie otherwise but by the seruice of the sonne of man That the seruice of the sonne of man was necessarie to be vsed it is moste true but that authoritie of the sonne of God was not necessarie for so great a worke as wel as the seruise of the sonne of man it is such an impudent blasphemie as I thinke the Pope him-selfe would condemne it if his opinion without partialitie thereof might be knowne As for the worke of Christes humanitie ioyned in one person to his deitie and the commission graunted to his ministers to remit sinnes are nothing hindred by acknowledging that God onelie doth properlie and absolutelie forgiue sinnes euen when his ministers according to his commaundement doe forgiue sinnes as S. Ambrose saith and all antiquitie doth accord Here it is declared by the scripture that the same power of remitting sinnes which God the Father by commission gaue vnto his Sonne as he was man was also by Christ bestowed on the Apostles after his resurrection THE SECOND CHAP. ALLEN IN what high reputation man hath euer bene with god his maker it is not my purpose now to treat of neither will I make anie tediouse talke though it be somewhat more neere the matter how estimation is encreased by the honourable and most merueilous matching of Gods onelie sonne with our nature and kinde whereof whosoeuer hath anie conside ration he shall nothing wonder I warrant him at the soueraingtie of such as be placed in the seat of iudgement and gouernement for the rule of that comonwealth whereof Christ is the head These thinges though they be well worthie our labour and deepe remembrance and not verie far from our matter yet so will I charge my selfe with continuance in my cause that I will onelie seeke out the dignitie of priesthood touching the right that the order laimeth in remission and retaining of mans sinnes In all which cause I take this a grounde that our Masters messenger stood vpon when his disciples grudged that Christ had his followers and practized Baptisme no lesse then him selfe did which is That no man can rightlie receiue anie thing that is not giuen him from aboue Therefore if it may be sufficientlie declared that the order holdeth by good warrant this their preheminence of pardoning or punishing of the peoples offences and that by commission from him who without al controuersie is the head of the Church then the contrarie must learne to leaue their contentious reasoning and vniust contempt of that order which is honoured by power and prerogatiue proceeding from Christ Iesus FVLKE That God of his meere goodnes and mercie hath vouchsafed man of so great honour that of him selfe deserueth eternall shame it is more reason to wonder at Gods mercie then to insinuate anie peece of mans dignitie or worthines That it hath pleased god to aduaunce some men to the gouernment of his Church vpon earth we haue cause to magnifie his maiestie that disdaineth not our base condition but putteth his honour and authoritie vpon them driueth vs not from them by the excellencie of their nature aboue ours but familiarly inuiteth vs to obedience of his wil that we may attaine to his promis of eternal happines The title of this chapter That our sauiour Christ gaue vnto his Apostles the same power of remitting sinnes which God the father by commission gaue vnto his sonne as he was man we do all agree but that Christ did exercise a more soueraigne authoritie in forgiuing sinnes then he did bestow vpon his Apostles or their nature was capable to receiue it is prooued sufficientlie in the Chapter going before Neuerthelesse I will examin all partes of this chapter and if in anie thing I dissent from you I will shew that you dissent from the trueth And first where you professe onelie to seeke out the dignitie of Priesthood touching the right that the order claimeth in remission and retention of mans sinnes you should haue done better to haue sought and set out the duetie of such persons also to whome such dignity is committed lest as it falleth out in your bastarde Popish Priesthood the dignitie be onelie sought for the labour and duetie almost or altogether neglected The ground you take out of Saint Iohn is infallible and therefore your Popish priesthood doth blasphemouslie vsurpe a pretended power to offer vp our sauiour Christ vnto his father as a sacrifice propitiatorie for the sinnns of the quick and the dead for graunt of which power from aboue you can shew no warrant out of the written word of God the onelie true record of Gods graunt and sufficient euidence for so great an authoritie ALLEN And of two or three places in holie scripture pertaining to this purpose that shall be first proposed which with moste force driueth downe falsehood and most properlie pertaineth to the pith and principall state of the cause which we haue in hand Thus then we finde of Christes wordes will and behauiour concerning the commission graunted out to his holy Apostles for the remission and punishment of our sinnes in the 20. Chapter of the Gospell of Saint Iohn Where the Euangelist thus reporteth that Christ after his glorious resurrection came into a secret chamber where his disciples were together the dore being shut for feare of the Iewes and there after he had giuen them as his custome was his peace and his blessing and she wed him self to their infinite comfort that he was perfectlie risen againe in the same bodie that so latelie was buried he then straight afterwarde to make worthie entrance to so high a purpose gaue them this peace againe in manner of a solemne benediction and therewith said Sicut misit me Pater ego mitto vos Euen as the father hath sent me so I do send you And when he had so spoken he breathed on them and said Accipite spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata remittuntur eis quorum retinueritis retenta sunt Receaue you the holie ghoste whose sinnes soeuer you shall forgiue they are forgiuen them and whose sinnes you shall retaine they be retained This is the place lo in which the iudgement and rule of our soules with all authoritie in correcting our sinnes in moste expresse and effectuall termes and in moste ample manner is giuen to the Aposiles and their successours Christ him seife doth communicate vnto them the iurisdiction that he receiued of his Father he giueth them in a solemne ceremonie that same spirit of God by which in earth him-selfe did remitte sianes hemaketh them an assured promis that whatsoeuer they pardoned or corrected in mans
proofe on euerie side standeth not let the aduersaries tell me In the Apostles there can be no lack touching that officie for the execution whereof they receaued both Christes commission first and the holie spirit of God afterwarde In Christ there can be no default who was well able to giue and in deade did giue the holie ghost In the holie ghost there can be no let nor lacke whose power is infinie and his verie proprietie to remit sinnes All thinges then standing on so safe and sure groundes the giuer the gift and the receiuer competent and fullie answereable each to other on euerie side let the discontented ioyne in argument let him alledge why the Priests so authorized by Christ and so assured of the holie Ghost maie not either pardon or forgiue penance Neuer man auouched that he exercised the high action vpon his owne authoritie but that he maie not as a minister and seruant practize it vpon the warrant of Christ and present power of the holie Ghost that no faithfull person can affirme nor anie reasonable man stand in FVLKE The commission that our sauiour Christ receiued in his manhood to preach remission of sinnes was by him committed to his Apostles but in such ample manner as Christ had power to remit sinnes it is not prooued that Christ did communicate the same with his Apostles The visible signe of breathing by which our sauiour Christ testified that he did giue them the holie Ghost declareth that they were enabled with spirituall giftes to exercise their function the chiefe and principall end whereof was to pronounce in his name remission of sinnes to the beleeuers of the Gospell and condemnation to the contemners And this authoritie of the Apostles concerning the pardoning of our offences I know no man that denieth And therefore you spend vainlie the one halfe of your booke'in proouing that which no man doth denie namely that the Apostles and their lawful succesiours had and haue power by Christes graunt to remitte or to retaine sinnes The matters in question are these 1. Whither Popish Priestes be the lawful successours of the Apostles 2. What manner of power is this which is graunted and thirdly How it is to be exercised by Preaching the gospell or by Popish absolution and pardons For we denie your shauelings for the most part vnlearned to be the Priests or elders of the Church of god towhome this power is deriued from the Apostles we denie an absolute power to be graunted but a ministerie of testification and assurance of that which God onelie doth properlie and principallie Thirdly we deny that by Popish shrift absolution and pardons this power is to be exercised but by preaching of the Gospell whereunto are annexed the sacraments as seales of the doctrine These questions would haue beene directlie handled without such a tedious discourse to prooue confuselie the power that is graunted by Christ to his Apostles which is not denied but the kinde of power about which you wander vncertainly somtimes making it to be a meere ministery seruice vnder god the onelie worker therein sometime more then obscurelie insinuating that it is the verie same authoritie and none other but the same which Christ did exercise vpon earth and now hath committed it ouer or communicated it to Priestes as though he were bound to stand to their sentence in remitting or retaining sinnes or that they might remit as well as he and he must accept whatsoeuer they do in that case But seeing you wil not go directlie to worke we must follow you in your crooked path as well as we maie And for the first part of your conference where you are in good hope that no man wil deny but Christ gaue them the holy ghost for no other purpose so much as to remit sinnes I must say vnto you for my parte that forasmuch as remission of sinnes is the principall scope of preaching the Gospel they were indued with giftes of the holie ghost especially to call men to repentance forgiuenes of sinnes and to assure the repentant and beleeuers of the remission of sinnes by that authoritie and commission which they receaued of Christ. But if you meane that Christ gaue them the holie ghost for no other purpose so much as that they should heare mens shrift and giue them absolution in such forme of wordes as your Popish Priests do vse without preaching the gospell to them and setting forth the grace of god in Iesus Christ I denie that they receaued the holy ghost for any such purpose The other two partes I graunt but I know not what is your conclusion If you wil conclude that they haue power to remit sinnes I graunt it neither do I know anie man that denyeth it But if you meane to conclude thus because the holy Ghost which was giuen to the Apostles is of power by nature proprietie to forgiue sins therefore the Apostles did as properlie forgiue sins as god himselfe I denie your consequence And it seemeth you meane such a matter when you saie In the holie Ghost there can be no let nor lacke whose power is infinite and his verie propertie to remit sinnes which is verie true but yet it followeth not thereof that whosoeuer is endued with the holie Ghost hath infinite power and maie properlie remit sinnes For the holie Ghost is giuen in measure to all men not that his substance is diuisible that it maie be apportionated but that his gifts are distributed by him selfe in such measure as the wisdome of God seeth to be moste conuenient His essence is infinit and incomprehensible but he is said in Scripture to be present with them or in them on whome he bestoweth his graces and giftes Therefore I see not what consequence can be made of the holy ghostes infinit power and verie propertie to remit sins to conclude that the Apostles which receiued the holie Ghost rereiued infinite power or the verie propertie to remitre sinnes Where you will the discontented to ioyne in argument why the Priest so authorized by Christ and so assured of the holy Ghost may not either pardon or giue penance Thus I ioyne with you For remitting of sinnes I see authoritie but for giuing of penance none therefore I graunt the former and denie the latter For if by penance true repentance be vnderstood god onelie can giue repentance who onelie can turne the heart of man to feare him If you meane popish penance that is enioyning of satisfactorie works or punishment I denie that it is mentioned in the scriptures neither can it be contained in retaining of sinne Where you saie that neuer man aduouched that high action vpon his owne authoritie it is vntrue for Antichrist that lifteth him-selfe to be equall with God and Christ auoucheth vpon his owne authoritie although to cloke his manifest impietie that he might deceiue the simple he pretendeth the name authoritie of God Christ. But that the Apostles and their true successours by the
warrant of Christ his power receiued by the holy ghost maie as ministers seruants remit or retaine sins we do most willinglie consent and confesse But then they practise this power as seruants when they beinterpreters and declarers of the Lordes will and pleasure and require not that God should followe their sentence or attend how they be affected to forgiue or retaine and so to subscribe vnto their doing for that is an Antichristian vsurpation farre from the meaning of that power which Christ did graunt to his A postles ALLEN Some holie writers vpon this text of S. Iohn in which the order of Christes authorizing his Apostles for the remission of sinnes is described doe dispute of the difference of giuing the holie Ghost then to his Disciples and afterward on Whitsondaie some note the eternall ceremonie that our Master vsed when he gaue them the holie spirit which was by breathing on them that such outward actions might both be an euidence to them of that excellent gift which they inwardlie then receiued and should further be an euerlasting instruction to the Church that Gods grace and giftes be often ioyned to externall elements for the solace of our nature that delighteth to haue our outward man schooled as wel as the inward man nourished These and manie things moe be of profitable remembrance and consideration but not so much to our purpose Therefore let vs see whether the iudgement of the holie Fathers doe not wholie helpe our present cause prouing the Priests ministerie through the holie Ghostes authoritie that our declaration standing on the plaine wordes of scripture with their vndoubted sense maie obtaine inuincible force against the aduersaries worthie credit of the true beleeuers FVLKE If you had expressed what the writers are that thus dispute or discourse vpon this text we might better haue considred how pertinent or impertinent their opinions are to our matter in controuersie S. Chrysost. seemeth to allowe the opinion of some and Euthymius plainely affirmeth the same that the Apostles at this time did not presentlie receiue the holie ghost but onelie were prepared or made capable thereof which if it were true is contrarie to the title of your Chapter I like better of Cyrillus iudgement which thinketh they presentlie receiued the holie Ghost in some measure but not so plentifullie nor with such diuersitie of giftes as on the daie of Pentecost That the grace of God is testified assured and sealed vp vnto vs for the help of our infirmitie by outward signes and externall elementes ioined thereto we know confesse but as for the solace of our nature or delight to haue our outward man schooled I knowe not what they meane It is great mercie of God to beare with our weakenes but it agreeth not with the discipline of the Gospell that we should delight in outward thinges but rather to exercise our faith in spirituall and heauenlie meditations ALLEN We will make our entrance first with Saint Cyrill whoe debating with himselfe vppon the incomparable authoritie and power giuen to the Apostles for remission of sinnes standeth first as in contention with him selfe and with Christs words how it maie be that they being but men should forgiue the sinnes of our soules being sure of this that it is the propertie onelie of the true liuing god to assoile vs of our sinnes against whom onlie all sins be properlie committed And therfore being not of stomake as men be now a daies to denie that which Christes words so plainelie do import he made answere that the Apostles were in deed deified and made as you would saie partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world Qua igitur ratione saieth he diuinae naturae dignitatem ac potestatem discipulis suis saluator largitus est Quia certè absurdum non est peccata remitti posse ab illis qui Spiritum sanctum in seipsis habeant Nam cùm ipsi remmittunt aut detinent spiritus qui habitat in eis remittit detines By what meanes did our Sauiour giue vnto the Apostles the preheminence and power of Gods owne nature Surelie because it agreeth verie well that they should rimit mans sins that haue in themselues the holie Ghost For when they assoile or retaine sins it is the holie spirit that dwelleth in them which by their ministery doth remit or retaine sins Thus he I maruell not now whie this same father termeth the Apostles sometimes protectores curatores animarum corporum the protectors curers both of bodies soules it is not strange whie S. Ambrose should call the order of priestood Ordinem ãâã Neither that he should terme Officium Sacerdotis munus S. S. The Priests office to be the function of the holie Ghost No I doe not wonder at some of our forefathers that in the admiration of Gods Maiestic which they same to be so present in the execution of so high in office they did simplie and plainely terme the principall Pastours of the Church halfe Gods and not meere men not hauing respect to their persons which be compassed with infirmities as other the sinfull sort of people in the world be but casting eie vpward to the holie and excellent function which they practised by the spirit of God which dwelleth in them and deifieth their persons to make them of habilitie to exercise the workes of God FVLKE Saint Cyrill is farre from that blasphemie to saie that the Apostles were in deede deified and made partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world For ascribing to God that which is proper to him incommunicable to anie meere creature he maketh this obiection how our sauiour did graunt to his disciples the dignitie power of his diuine nature answereth that they were only made ministers instruments of the holy ghost to expresse his power in remitting sinnes by baptisme and repentance whereof S. Chrysostome also saieth vpon the same text that the Priest giueth onelie his tongue and his hand but the Father the sonne and the holie Ghost doth all things in this case I will rehearse the whole saying of Cyrillus that his iudgement maie more fullie appeare vpon this text Et certè solius veri Dei est c. And suerlie it pertaineth to the onelie true God that he is able to loose men from their sinnes For to what other person is it lawfull to deliuer the transgressors of the law from sinne but to the author of the law him-selfe for so in mennes affaires we see it to be done For no man without punishment doth reprooue the lawes of Kings but the Kinges them-selues in whome the crime of transgression hath no place For it is wiselie said that he is implous which shall saie to a King thou doest vniustlie By what meanes then did our Sauiour graunt to his disciples the dignitie and power of the diuine nature because trulie it is not absurde that sinnes may be remitted
vertue of the holie Ghost hath euer beene in it selfe bòth so plaine and so firme that the holie fathers haue vsed it as a ground to prooue against heretikes of Eunomius and Macedonius sectc the Godhheade of the holie Ghost the third person in Trinitie FVLKE You remember Saint Augustine but you can rehearse nothing that he saith touching this matter to confirme the deifying of your poeticall Popish halfe gods the Popish Faunes and Satyres saue onelie the generall argument of vniuersall consent and practize which if it be denyed you you are at a stale til you can prooue it You saide that priests as deified persons halfe Gods not meere men had abilitie to exercise the proper workes of God For otherwise the lawfull power and practize of remitting sinnes is so sufficientlie authorized by the words of the Gospel that it neede not be vnderproped with Saint Augustines generall argument wherein yet he neuer placed so great force as you affirme of him ALLEN S. Bernard is too young good man to name amongst these olde fathers of our new Church els perdie with the vertuous his wordes sound full sweetelie Thus saith he to prooue the equalitie of the holie Ghost with the Father and the sonne Sicut in nobis interpellas pro nobis ita a in patre delicta donatcum ipso Patre vt omnino scias quòd remissionem peccatorum spiritus sanctus operatur audi quod aliquando audierunt Apostoli Accipite Spiritum sanctum quorum remiserit is peccata remittuntur eis In English thus Like as in vs he maketh sute for vs so in the father he pardoneth sinnes with the father and that thou maiest vnderstande that the holy Ghost worketh remission of sinnes hear that which she Apostles once heard Receiue you the holie Ghost whose sins you doe forgiue they are forgiuen Thus he And Saint Ambrose his auncient to prooue the holie Ghost to be God alledgeth that he remitteth sins by the priests ministerie which he could not in any wise doe if he were not in all pointes equall and omnipotent God with the father and sonne Let vs see saith he Whether the holie Ghost doth pardon sinnes and he answereth him-selfe thus Sedhinc dubitari non potest cùm ipse Dominus dixerit Accipite spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata remittuntur ecce quia per spiritum sanctum peccata donantur homines autem in remissionem peccatoris ministerium suum exhibent non ius alicuius potestatis exercent It is thus much to saie There can be no doubt thereof seeing our Lord saide Receiue you the holie Ghost whose sinnes you doe forgiue they shal be forgiuen lookeye that by the holie Ghost sinnes be forgiuen men doe but exercise their seruice and ministerie and claime not the right of power and principalitie therein And Saine Basill vpon this assured ground frameth in full forme against Eunomius this argument Dominus sanctis Apostolis insufflans inquit Accipite spiritum sanctum quorumcunque dimittetis peccata dimittentur eis siergo nullius est peccata dimittere nisi solius Dei dimittit autem spiritus sanctus per Apostolos Deus ergo spiritus sanctus Our lord breathing on the Apostles said take ye the holy ghost for whose sinnes soeuer you shall pardon they be pardoned therefore if it be the onelie proprietie of God to forgiue sinnes and the holie Ghost so doth by the Apostles Ergo the holie Ghost is truelie God FVLKE Saint Bernarde is not to be despised for his youth where he agreeth with the most auncient and eternall truth reuealed in the holie scriptures His purpose is to prooue the equallity of the holy ghost with the father and the sonne and prooueth it by his effects because he forgiueth sinnes which is proper to God His saying Hom. de Pentecost 1. is mangled by you I know not for what purpose except you follow some Iesuites dictates more then your owne reading But in trueth there is nothing which can prooue the deification of priests but contrariwise that it is the holie Ghost that properlie remitteth sinnes of whose pleasure according to the holie scriptures the priestes are but interpreters and reporters As for the saying of Saint Ambrose is flat against you if you had not falsified it in translation For you traslate Exhibent ministerium non ius alicuius potestatis exercent They doe but exercise their seruice and ministerie and claime not the right of power and principallitie Where you should saie men doe exhibit or yeald their ministerie or seruise they exercise not the right of any power And he addeth a reason which you omit Neque enim in suo sed in patris filii SS nomine peccata dimittuntur Isti rogant diuinitas donat humanum enim obsequium sed munificentia supernae est potestatis For sins are not forgiuen in their name but in the name of the father and of the sonne of the holie Ghost These men do intreate the godhead doth graunt for the seruice is mans but the bowntiful gift is of the highest power Saint Basill also if his wholl saying were recited would appeare more manifest against you as he maketh vpon your owne report no shew at all for you His wordes are these against Eunomius Lib. 5. Cap. 3. ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. It is proper to God to forgiue sinnes he him-selfe affirming the same I am he which putteth away thy sinnes if your sinnes were as purple I will make them as white as snow and if they were as scarlet I will make them as white as woll Afterward when God the sonne of God Iesus forgiueth sinnes to the man sicke of the palsie saying sonne thy sinnes are forgiuen thee whereupon he was thought to blaspheme of the Iewes which knew not that he was God saying that this man blasphemeth for it perteineth to none to forgiue sinnes but to god alone But our Lord breathing vpon his holie Apostles said receiue the holie ghost whose sinnes you forgiue they are forgiuen to them If therfore it perteineth to none to forgiue sinnes as it doth not but onelie to God and the holy ghost by the Apostles forgiueth then the holy ghost is God and of the same efficacie and power with the father and the sonne In this saying of Saint Basil you haue not onelie omitted the former parte which ascribeth the power of forgiuing of sinnes as proper to God but also haue gelded out these wordes in that parte you alledge both in your latine and English translation ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã as in deede it is not of what purpose let the indifferent reader iudge ALLEN Thus you perceiue that the ground of this our faith and assertion was of olde accounted so sure that it was a singular aide and for tresse of faith against the vnfaithfull attemptes of most wicked persons in diuerse ages The onelie practize that priests vse by the Sacrament of penance to pardon sinnes was a full proofe that the
holie ghost was God by whose authoritie and proper power they did alwaies since Christs word was spoken remitte the same The which beeing true as it cannot be false that is so agreeable both to scriptures and to all our fathers faith the heresy of our time must needes directly impugne the vertue and power of Gods owne spirit For as the proofe of mans ministerie in this foresaid function induceth the true and euerlasting Godhead of the holy ghost by whome they practize that power so the denial thereof and robberie of priesthoode of this their moste iust claime doth directlie spoile God of his honour and of the euerlasting right that he hath in remission of sinnes So whiles these goodmen seeke to abase man vniustlie they blaspheme God highlie and together with mans ministerie they bring vnto vtter contempt Gods owne authoritie FVLKE Your deifying of popish priests doth altogether weaken the force of that argument which our fathers vsed against the auncient heretikes to prooue the diuinitie of the holie Ghost For it were an easie matter for Eunomius Macedonius or anie other heretike that was against his godhead to replie that by ministerie of God the holie Ghost might as properlie forgiue sinnes as Priestes do by the ministerie of Christ and of the holie ghost yea so farre forth as thereby they are made halfe Gods yea deified and made Gods in deede But you vtter repugnancie when you saie that by Gods authoritie and proper power Priestes do forgiue sinnes Where you make it not proper to God which is common to others with him Therefore you should speake more properlie to saie that God the holy ghost by his owne authoritie and power proper to the deitie doth forgiue sinnes in their ministery men thereto authorized do no more in proper speach and sense but testifie and declare what God doth for which declaration and testification seeing they are the embassadours and messengers of God vnto the world to declare his pleasure of reconciliation or condemnation they are said to forgiue sinnes or to retaine them which they do not properlie but pronounce the sentence of God concerning the remission or retention of mens sinnes And that this was the meaning of the Auncient fathers concerning the authoritie and power of Gods ministers it is moste manifest by this argument whereby they choke the enuier of the holie ghostes diuinitie from which you cutte of all the sinnewes and force it hath to prooue it when you communicate to men that which is proper to God and aduance men aboue the nature of meere men when you deifie their persons by meanes of the giftes of the holie Ghost giuen to them and make them of abilitie to exercise the proper workes of God As for the deniall and robberie that you ascribe I can not tell to what heretikes of this time we detest as much as ye not seeking to abase man beneath the nature and condition of man norseeking to extoll him by robbing God of his glorie and proper effects to magnifie menne to deifie the persoas of men as you do in plaine termes Whereby it is manifest we are as far from blaspheming god or making mans ministerie contemptible which he exerciseth in the name of God as you are from sobrietie thus to iudge if your meaning be of vs or thus to reason if you would defend the argument of the auncient fathers against the auncient heretikes ALLEN But for the readersease and more light of our cause I ioyne thus in argument with them againe vpon the second part of Christes owne wordes and action had in the authorizing of his Apostles Whatsoeuer the holie Ghost maie doe in this case by the proper power of his Godhead that may the Apostles and Priestcs do by seruice and ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost But the holie Ghost properlie and rightlie doth remit sinnes Therefore the Apostles doe rightlie remit sinnes by their ministerie in the said holie Ghost All partes of this conclusion stand vpright and feare no falsehood they be guarded on euerie side by Christes action by wordes of scripture by the Doctors plain warrant and by all reason With all which whosoeuer is not contented but will needes extinguere spiritum extinguish Gods spirit and violentlie take from the Church the greatest comfort of all mans life that in this infirmitie of our flesh standeth in moste hope by his gift in remission of sinnes for which especiall cause the said spirit was mercifullie breathed vpon the Apostles peculiarly before the mare common sending of the same from heauen aboue If all this reason and iust demonstration of trueth will not serue them I will charge them with this graue conclusion of S. Augustine vttered partlie against the Nouatians especallie against the desperate that would not seeke for Gods mercie by the Churches ministerie in the sacrament of penance To be briefe I will speake it in English Whosoeuer he be that beleeueth no mans sinnes to be remitted in Gods Church and therefore despiseth the bountifulnes of God inso mightie a worke if he in that obstinate minde continue til his liues end he is guiltie of sinne against the holie Ghost in which holy ghost Christ remitteth sinnes FVLKE I doe greatlie commend you that you haue such regard of the readers ease and it seemeth you haue good confidence of your cause that you flie not the light of Logicall iudgement by which the trueth shall more plainelie appeere to all sortes of men then by anie discourses at large vnder which many great errors may be often couered vnder sophistical cloudes ambiguity of words which in a briefe syllogisme is soone and easilie espied To answere your argument therefore First I distinguish of your Maior for if you meane by seruice and ministerie the expressing and declaring of the will and pleasure of the holy ghost wherunto they are authorized I acknowledge your Maior proposition to be true whatsoeuer the holie Ghost maie doe in this case by the proper power of his godhead that maie the Apostles and Priestes doe by seruice ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost But if you meane by seruice and ministerie that the proper power of God is communicated to men I denie your Maior as false and absurde For the Apostles and Priests maie not by seruice and ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost forgiue sinnes properlie which the holie ghost by proper power of his godhead may doe for this is a proper power not com municable vnto any creature but a declaration of the will of him that hath such power is the ministeriall authoritie by which men forgiue sinnes Secondlie I answere that your conclusion is deceitfull For your Minor Extreame or Assumption is not perfectlie ioyned with your Maior or Proposition in the conclusion For your Minor is that the holie ghost properly rightlie doth remit sinnes So your conclusion should be therefore the Apostles properlie and rightlie doe remit sinnes by their ministerie
in stead of which word properlie you craftelie conueigh in the worde truelie so your wholl syllogisme is a paralogisme and may lawfully be denied Notwithstanding your conclusion as it is we do graunt that the Apostles do rightlie and truely remit sinnes by their ministery in the holie ghost but as it should be inferred vpon your premises we denie it which cannot be gathered but vpon a false Maior Whatsoeuer the holie ghost may doe properlie in remitting sinnes the Apostles may do by ministerie as properlie As for the comfort of mans life taken away by denying sinnes to be properlie forgiuen by Priestes is a fond cauill and meere slaunder For we acknowledge it a singular comfort of mans life that God hath appointed men by their ministerie to assure vs of his fauour and reconciliation in the remission of oursins And we beleeue with Saint Augustine that sinnes are forgiuen in Gods Church vpon earth acknowledgeing the bountefullnes of God in so mightie a worke anathematizing and detesting the Nouatians and all other heretikes that obstinatelie and willfullie mainteine the contrarie The power to remit sinnes is further prooued to be giuen to the Apostles by these wordes of Christ Whose sinnes you do forgiue c. by the Doctors exposition of the same and by conference of other wordes of scripture of the like sense THE FOVRTH CHAP. ALLEN HOw the priestes of Christes Church haue defended this right and calling for remission of sinnes as wel by the commission that Christ first receiued of his father and afterward bestowed vpon them as by the assured receiuing of the spi rit of god from Christes blessed breath to the same and purpose I haue hitherto declared at large Now the third part of the place before alledged out of S. Iohns gospel concerneth the words of Christes promis and warrant made vnto his Apostles out of which wordes distinctly vttered we must see what force may be further added vnto our Catholike assertion for the pristes autho rity to remit and retaine sinnes And surely if none of the former wordes of commission nor any other mean or mention had beene made of the holy ghostes assistaunce herein these onlie woordes vpon the credit that faithful men owe to Christ had bin sufficient to haue assured the world of the authoritie of priesthood of the wholl cause that now is called in controuersie For what can be said either of god or man more properlie or more playnlie then this whose sinnes you shal forgiue they be forgiuen whose sinnes you shal retaine they be retained I must needes heree complaine of these vnfaithful and vnhappie times that in the continuall lothsome bragges of the scripture and Gods word in perpetuall tossing and tumbling of the booke of the Bible in endlesse contention and disputation of most high mysteries in them contained haue wholie conuerted the cleerest and onely vndoubted meaning of such places specially as moste touch the verie life and saluation of all mankinde and which be of all other thinges in termes of scripture most open and euident sull foolishlie and vnlearnedlie haue both the simple sort handled Gods word as in such grosse ignorance of al thinges they needes must and their new procured Masters also in not much more knowledge and farre passing pride can not otherwise do but whilest they plaie them selues in things of smaler importance they are to be laughed at rather then lamented but if the deuil driue them farther as he lightlie doth wherere he se quietlie possesseth and cause them to dallie and delude the places of scripture that principally concerne the state and saluation of vs al then we must with al force resist lest we leese the fruite and good of our Christianitie What can be of higher importance in the world or touch our soules and saluation so neere as the holie sacraments of Christ Church by which grace and mercy through gods appointment be procured yet these blessed fountains especiallie euen these waters springing euerlastingly to our life and comfort haue these men most infected FVLKE You fare as though we denied all power of remitting or retaining of sinnes whereas we do moste gladlie imbrace all such power as Christ hath giuen vs which we must so take as it be not dishonourable to the godhead that man should exercise that which is proper to God him-selfe The power therefore we graunt but what manner of power this is we must inquire whether an absolute power for priests at their pleasure as you speake afterward in this Chapter to forgiue sinnes properlie or a power to declare the same to be forgiuen according to the pleasure of God to them that repent and beleeue the Gospell and also whether this power is to be exercised by preaching the Ghospel or by auricular confession You spend manie words therefore in vaine to prooue the power and authoritie whereof we stand in no controuersie with you but what manner of power this is and by what meanes it is to be exercised As for the lothsome bragges of the scripture and Gods word in perpetuall tossing and tumbling of the bookes of the Bible doe argue that you complaine of sauoreth not of the spirit of Christ which willeth the scriptures to be searched as those which beare witnes of him To glory in the truth of Gods word contained in his holie scriptures is no vaine bragging but such as Christians ought moste of all to delight in The rest of your railing I passe ouer as vnworthie anie answere when whatsoeuer you prate in generall shal be founde false in speciall when you come to prooue the particulers ALLEN In the institution of Sacraments Christs wordes were euer plaine without colour or figure as wordes that worke with singular efficacie grace and vertue and therewith giue to the ministers iust authoritie for the execution of Christes meaning which could not be done in figuratiue speaches and parables without infinit error Did God speake parables when he instituted the solemnitie of so manie sacrifices in the olde lawe when he signified vnto Moses and Aaron euerie seuerall sorte of beast or creature with their sexe kind all the ceremonie thereunto belonging Did he speake parables when the sacrament of the lambe was to be instituted Did he speake by figure to Abraham when he commaunded him to circumcise the male of euerie of his people Did he speake by figure when he instituted the Sabbath Did he to be breefe euer in the olde lawe speake one thing and meane another when anie externall worke by the charge of his worde was to be practized for euer amongest the people In common speach in prophecying in preaching in similitudes in examples vttered for the declaration of manie thinges and for grace and varietie of talke to stirre vp mans industrie in searching the secretes of the trueth there figures of all sortes be vsed but where by externall wordes and actions force of inward grace must be procured or perpetuall vsages in the Church are
of Christ and his spouse the Church which you saie in no sauce we can abide as though wheresoeuer any mysterie is confessed to be there muste needes follow a Sacrament of the new testament ALLEN These fellowes therefore that dare be so bolde to disturbe all the orders and sacramentes of Gods Church and to mainteine their phantasies dare brust the sacred bandes of expresse scriptures in such pointes as doe directlie touch the wholl policie of our Christian common wealth and ordered waics of our saluation euen in those which Christ moste carefullie left to be practized for the vse of his louing slocke by the warrant of wordes moste plaine what shall we saie to such bold and impudent faces that thus dare doe and yet which I more mernaile at in this their vncurtesie and most vnhonest dealing will not sticke to crie and call vpon Gods worde as though they did that by scripture the contrarie whereof they expresslie finde in scripture And truelie where they be not holpen by the verte wordes vaine it shall be for them to stand with vs and with all our Fathers and with the practize of all nations and with the very expresse iudgement of the Church of God it shal not boote them I saie in their darke ignorance infinite pride to stand with vs hauing so many helpes for the true meaning and the expresse text of the worde for our selues and side FVLKE He must needes haue an impudent face and a wicked conscience that so shamefullie slaundereth vs to bereake the sacred bandes of the expresse scriptures wherunto we seeme to attribute al credit as though we denie any one word of expresse scripture do not affirme whatsoeuer the scripture doth affirme in expresse words or denie whatsoeuer the holy scripture in expresse words doth deny according to such sense and meaning as the scripture must haue as it is agreable to it selfe in all places The expresse wordes of scripture touching the Lords supper are these that it is the body blood of Christ we confesse and beleeue as much The expresse wordes of scripture concerning the Apostles authoritie in pardoning or reteining sinnes are as they haue beene often alledged we beleeue they and their successours of whome there is no expresse word haue power to remit or reteine sins The expresse words of scripture concerning the Lords supper are also The rocke was Christ we beleeue that the rocke was Christ. The cup is the new testament we beleeue that the cup is the new testament Also by expresse words to the Apostles there is graunted power to binde and to loose We confesse and beleeue that they haue power to binde and to loose And yet I trust we may be bolde to saie without breaking the sacred bondes of expresse scriptures The rocke was not Christ in nature of his humanitie and diuinitie but a sacrament of Christ. The cup is not the new couenant it selfe but that which is in the cup is an holie signe or seale thereof The Apostles had no power giuen them to binde men with chaines or coardes nor to loose the chaines coards of them that be bound by other but a spirituall authoritie to binde and loose spirituallie In like manner we doe not breake the sacred bandes of expresse scripture when we affirme that the Sacramentall bread and wine are not by transsbustantiation turned into the naturall bodie and bloode of Christ or the bodie and blood of Christ in the sacrament are not corporallie receiued but spirituallie For the contrarie of these we finde not expresselie in the scripture So when we saie the Apostles had not power to remit sinnes properlie which is peculiar onelie to God but to aslure men in Christes name whose embassadours they were of the forgiuenes of their sinnes by Christ we breake no bandes of expresse scriptures For we confesle the wordes according to their true meaning agreeable with other places of scripture that teach it to be peculiar to God to remit sinnes properlie An embassadour is said to make peace or warre when he declareth according to his commission his Princes determination of peace or warre The Kinges Liuetenant hauing such commission offereth or graun teth pardon to rebells or other offenders where he doth onelie declare the kinges pleasure in pardoning or releasing their offences As for the Popish bragge of all our fathers with the practize of all nations and the verie expresse iudgement of the Church of God to be for your assertion how vaine it is will easilie appeare when you come to cite fathers shew forth the practize of all nations declare the iudgement of Gods Church and when the contradictorie shall be manifestlie prooued and brough forth against you ALLEN Sometimes where it may appeare that the wordes and outwarde face of scripture serue not our assertions so plainlie as the holie traditions of Christes Church doe there they call vpon vs with infinite clamours to abide the iudgement of the word which they would be thought to esteeme aboue all mans meaning But whether would they now runne thinke you where all our sacraments stand vpon euident words more then words vpon the verie expresse notorious action of Christ him selfe al instituted sincerelie to be practized of the Church after his de parture hence all commended in knowne termes of greatest moste efficacie that could be not by way of preaching in which he vsed sometimes figures not at such time as he vsed other then common knowne speach but after his resurrection when he now vttered no more parables as he did before that such as faw should not see and such as were of vnderstanding might not vnderstand but did open vnto his dearest their senses that they might vnderstand scriptures and more carefullie expressed his meaning for the instruction of his holie Disciples to the better bearing of that charge which he meant to leaue them in after his departure whither will these men I saie where they see all thinges so enuironed with trueth whither will they flie The scriptures be plainlie ours the Doctors they dare not claime reason is against them there is then no waie to beare it out but with boldnes and exercised audacitie Yet here we wil assay by the notorious euidence of this one cause that we now haue in hand to breake their stonie heartes to the obedience of Christs Church word for whose faith if they haue seene great light force of argument allready shal yet see much more I trust they wil not stil with stand the knowen truth FVLKE We will runne no further for the vnderstanding of Christes wordes concerning the institution and practize of his holie sacramentes although we haue the consent of the moste auncient and approoued doctors of the primitiue Church as witnesses of the same That the sacraments are commended in knowne terms of greatest and most efficacie that could be we cofesse but therof it followeth not that they were not in some part commended by figuratiue speeches
to the proper power of God touching the release of the guiltinesse of sinnes although in executing of discipline they maie pardon the exercise of repentance that is appointed for triall of the parties true penitencie or some part thereof which as it is enioyned by the iudgement and discretion of men so they may by the same release it as vpon good cause they thinke conuenient Where you say that Priestes may pardon or retaine mans sinnes of al sortes as wel in the sarcrament of penance al that be confessed as in publike iudgement You thrust in diuerse matters whereof there is neither mention in the text nor anie necessarie collection to be made of them out of it as the sacrament of pennance whereof there is no outward element or signe instituted then your kinde of penance which includeth some peece of satisfaction for sinnes last of all your auricular and particuler confession as though genetall confession and acknowledging of mens sinnes before God might not obtaine remission of sinnes in his sight And as though if anie sinne be not remembred in shrift the priestes remission extendeth not vnto it or if it were remembred and be hypocriticallie concealed yet the remission were good auaileable for al other sinnes that are confessed Againe it is an insolent power you giue them in open Iudgement that they may at their pleasure where Iustice requireth correct the open offender For though you seeme to qualifie their pleasure by iustice yet to ascribe that to their pleasure which is laid vpon them of necessitie what warrant haue you for it For if they maie at their pleasure they neede not except it please them Finallie your argument holdeth not that as in exercising of discipline they maie chastice the offender by the censures of the Church so they may giue due punishment for sinnes ãâã in shrift Neither are those two endes you alledge true For the chastisement of sinnes pertaineth not to them but to God and the ciuill Magistrate and the iustice of God violated by sinne is satisfied by the obedience and suffering of our sauiour Christ. Wherebie also it should follow that the power of remitting of sinnes were made void and frustrate if men must endure due punishment which you call penance for the satisfying of Gods iustice by sinne violated AILEN The other text of holie scripture containing Christes wordes to Saint Peter seuerallie by certaine notable circumstances of the letter and by wordes of great graunt spoken singularlie to him giueth the chiefe of all his Apostles in more ample termes and beneficiall clauses this power and perogatiue also To him it was onelie said thou art Peter which is as much to saie as a rock for our Master gaue him that name new at his first calling in signification of further intent and purpose which he here vttered and vpon this rocke will I set my Church and hell gates shall not preuaile against it That so said he thus spake in plaine termes Et tibi dabo claues regni caelorum Et quodcunque ligaueris super terram erit ligatum in caelis quodcunque solueris super terram erit solutum in caelis And to thee wil I giue the Keies of the Kingdome of heauen and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde in earth it shall be bound in the heauens And what thou loosest in earth it shall be loosed in the heauens This promis made vnto Peter and performed no doubt after his resurrection when he committed to him the feeding and gouernement of all his deare flock both yong and olde doth exceedinglie import a wonderfull incomparable soueraigntie and-iurisdiction ouer mens soules For a mortall man to receiue the keies of Christes Kingdome and by them to binde loose to lock out and let in before our Master Christ who had the full iurisdiction therein it was neuer heard of And when the holie Prophets do meane to set out the great and passing power giuen by God the father to his onelie sonne in earth they vse to expresse the same often by the termes of keyes as when the Prophet Esaie saith I will laie the keies of the house of Dauid vpon his shoulder he shall shut and there can none be hable to open and he shall open so that none can shut agiane And Christ him-selfe speaking to his beloued Iohn in the Apocalips saith I am the first and the last I am aliue and was dead before and I haue the keies of death and hell The keies therefore euer signifying power andgouernment of the houshold was giuen to Christ as to whom being the principal and most excellent rectour of his owne Church that he bought so dearelie they moste duelie belong But he communicated vnto Peter as to his speciall stewarde the vse of the same for the gouernment of our soules with exceeding much preheminence both in binding and loosing Yet I do not remember that anie of the olde writers do put anie great difference betwixt the authorities of Peter and the rest of the Apostles concerning the remitting of sinnes which is a thing perteining indifferentlie to the wholl order of priesthood and therfore no more proper to the Pope or Peter then to Priestes and Apostles though Origen noted well that the iurisdiction of Peter seemed by these words to be enlarged aboue the residue by that our sauiour said to him that whatsoeuer he bound or loosed in earth it should be loosed or bound in the heauens where to the rest he spoke of heauen onelie in the singular number I speake onelie of this latter clause of binding and loosing with the keies thereunto belonging For there is no doubt but great preheminence of rule and iurisdiction is promised before in the sametext now recited and els where actuallie giuen vnto him more then to the rest of his breethren Neuerthelesse euen this power of binding and loosing common to all the holie order was in him first seuerally planted for the commendation of vnitie and order as Saint Cyprian sath and so the same authoritie giuen to other might yet after a sort be deriued from his fullnes of power and perogatiue as from a fountaine FVLKE The other text of scripture containing the wordes of our sauiour Christ to Peter seuerallie giueth to him as you saie this power and prerogatiue also As for the not able circumstances of the letter the wordes of great graunt spoken singularlie to him the more ample tearmes and beneficiall clauses let vs examine what they are and whether they be of force to make him chiefe of all his Apostles First to him it was onelie said thou art Peter which is as much to saie as a rock what then ergo he was chiefe of all the Apostles who is so madd to gtaunt the consequence To the sonnes of Zebede onelie it was said that they were Bonarges that is the Children of thunder ergo they had greater authoritie then the rest of the Apostles But of all the Apostles it was said
sttetch forth the Doctors meaning when you will be so impudent with their wordes The Apostles said In hoc credimus quia a Deo exîsti Quae rogo haec verbi huius admiratio est quod se exisse à Deo professus sit Tanta tam deo propria vos O Sancti beati viri ob fidei vestrae meritum claues regni caelorum sortitt ligandi atque soluendi in caelo in terraius adepti gestacsse per Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum Dei filium ãâã ad id quod à Deo exisse dixit nunc primùm vos veri intelligentiam assecutos protestamini In this we beleeue that thou art come out from God What admiration I praie you is this of this word that he professeth that he came out from God so great thinges and so proper to God O ye holie and blessed men which had obteined the keies of the kingdome of heauen for the worthinesse of your faith and haue obtained right of binding and loosing in heauen and earth had you seene done by our Lord Iesus Christ the sonne of God And doe you now first protest that you haue obtained the vnderstanding of the trueth as concerning that he said he came forth from God In these wordes it is apparant that all the Apostles haue the keies as well as Peter and right or authoritie of binding and loosing but that the whole right thereof is in them as though God had resigned his right to them or giuen them equall right with him-selfe S. Hilarie neuer said nor thought The latter sentence toucheth not the coÌtrouersy between vs. For we graunt the power of binding and loosing forgiuing and retaining to be ratified in heauen but that the wordes of Christ be of an absolute power properlie to doe that which is the office of God alone we cannot learne by this or anie other saying of Saint Hilarie ALLEN But I will adde S. Chrysostomes testimonie thereunto the rather because our aduersaries doe abuse his wordes sometimes against confession which necessarilie hangeth on the authority of Priesthood in remission and retaining sinnes as anon I shal declare That I be not ouer tediuose I will report his saying in English onelie Those saith he that dwelleth in earth and are conuersant amongst men haue receiued power and commission to dispose and dispense such thinges as be in heauen yea these men haue receieud power such as neither God either gaue to Angelles for it was neuer said to them whatsoeuer you bind in earth it shall be bound in heauen and whatsoeuer you loose in earth it shall be loosed in heauen Earthlie Princes in deed haue power to binde but that pertaineth to the bodies of their subiectes onelie but that which I now talke of that is proper to the Priests touching the verie soule it selfe and is so ample that it reacheth to the heauens aboue yea that so largelie that whatsoeuer the Priestes doe beneath the verie selfe same God wil allow and ratifie in heauen aboue and so the Lord will confirme the iudgement and sentence of the seruants Thus farre speaketh Chrysostome His words be so plaine that to stand long on them for farther proofe of my matter then the verrie face of the sentence doth importe it were vaine For man maie here rather maruell to see such strange power vpon Christes wordes giuen to the holie order and yet that to be so litle esteemed of wicked men and so litle regarded euen of the honester sort of simple folkes that few either seeke after their iudgement in cause of their soules or duelie honour that power in them which passeth all other prelacie that euer either man or Angell receiued in this great contempt I saie of most holie things wickednes is rather to be wondered at and lamented then by long reasoning to be confuted The sequele of true thinges is so plaine in it selfe the diuerse places of scripture so answere iustlie ech to other the fathers so consonantlie confirme the knowne meaning of the same and the verie tearmes of so many scriptures writen at diuerse times by sundrie of the Euangelists so fall vpon one vndoubted sense that we may rightly conclude the power to be in all cases giuen to the Apostles of remission of sinne FVLKE The wordes of Chrysostome are large enough of themselues although you had not augmented them with your additions and explications beside that you haue altered the number in the text of Mat 16. where in lieth a mysteric For Chrysostome by these wordes spoken in the singular number to Peter prooueth the authoritie that is common to all Priests What soeuer thou shalt binde whatsoeuer thou shalt loose The summe is that the power and dignitie of Priests is exceeding great which maketh a mortall man to come neere to the blessed and incorrupted nature of God as he saieth before But if an absolute and proper power of remitting sins were grauÌted to them they come not one ly neere but are translated in deede into the diuine na ture which is intollerable blasphemy That the Lord ratifieth in heauen confirmeth the sentence of his seruants giuen vpon earth it is to be vnderstoode that God approoueth the sentence which he before hath appointed them to pronounce As if the Queene in England should protest that shee is content to ratifie and confirme whatsoeuer her embassadour doth in France acding to his commission and the instructions receiued from her thee neither resigneth her authoritie to her embassadour neither giueth him equall power with her selfe but onelie maketh him the interpreter and declarer of her will and pleasure which shee is content to ratifie and not otherwise ALLEN And vpon such knowne termes I make this argument against the aduersaries They truelie and properlie doe remit sinnes vpon whose sentence in earth the pardon of God immediatelie ensueth in heauen but Gods pardon vndoubtedlie followeth the priests pardon in remission in earth Claue non errante Ergo they assuredlie remit sins The Maior is manifest the Minor hangeth vpon plaine scripture thrise tolde which first appointed man to loose in earth and then that God shall in the same instant forgiue in heauen God shall confirme the sentence of his seruants saith S. Chrysostome Mans iudgement saith Hilarie shall be as a sentence preiudiciall to God in heauen And thus farre for the wordes of Christ at this present and farther strength shal more and more be gathered vnto them by diuerse partes of all the processe following FVLKE You make such argumentes for your friendes and not against your aduersaries For what aduersarie would you choose vnto your selfe so simple that could not espie these grosse faults of your syllogisme For first your Maior is false which you saie is manifest But you haue not yet prooued that they doe properlie remit sinnes vpon whose sentence in earth the pardon of God immediately ensueth in heauen that is whose sentence on earth is ratified confirmed in heauen That they doe
For at this daie the Bishops that be throughout all Christendome how rose they to that roome The Church calleth them fathers and yet shee did beget them and she placed them in that roome of their fathers Non ergo reputes desertam quia non vides Petrum quòd non vides Paulum quòd non vides illos per quos nataes de prole tua tibi creuit paternitas pra patribus tuis natisunt tibi filij constitues eos principes super omnem terram Do not therefore think thy selfe desolate because thou hast not Paull because thou hast them not now present by whome thou wast borne of thy owne issue fatherhood is growne to thee and for thy fathers thou hast brought forth sonnes them shalt thou make the rulers ouer al the earth Thus much out of Saint Augustine By whome you maie perceaue the great prouidence of God that euerlastinglie vpholdeth the ordinance of his sonne Christ Iesus as well now by the children borne from time to time in the Churches lap as before in the spring of our faith by the Apostles sent and appointed in person by Christ him-selfe FVLKE I suppose the title of your booke will admonish you not to restraine this office onelie to Bishops which so often you haue made common to all priestes For Gregory also in the same homyly nameth often times all pastours of the Church to whome the power of binding and loosing doth appertaine which are many other beside Bishops Moreouer inueighing against the ignorance and vnworthines of them that occupied such places which take vpon them to loose where God doth binde and binde where God doth loose he concludeth that then the absolution of the gouernours of the Chuch is true when it followeth the will of the eternall Iudge By which saying and more to the like effect in that place he declareth his iudgement of the kinde of power or authoritie which the Church hath that it is not absolute but subiect vuto the will of God and is an expressing of Gods forgiuenes or retaining not a proper forgiuing or retaining The saying of Saint Augustine prooueth in deede a continuance of the ministery of the Apostles in the office of Bishops but hereof it followeth not that onelie Bishops as they are distinct from priestes haue this power for not onelie Bishops be the children of the Church but all faithfull men to whome the inheritance of the world is like wise appointed ALLEN And here you must know that not onelie Bishops who succeede the Apostles in all kinde of power and regiment but also all other inferiour Priestes to be compted with them as successors in ministring diuerse sacraments as baptisme penance the reuerend Sacrament of the Aultar and such like but looke what power either Apostle or Bishop hath in remission of sinnes in consecrating Christes bodie in baptizing the same hath the wholl order of holie Priesthood by the right of their order and maie practize the same vpon such as be subiect vnto them in all causes not exempted for reasonable causes by such as haue further iurisdiction ouer the people Wherof I will not now talke particularlie the learned of that order know the limits of their charge and commission better then I can instruct them and the simpler sort must seeke for knowledge of their duetie by the holie Canons of Councels and decrees of Bishops made for that purpose I can not now stand thereon meaning at this present onelie to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Chistes owne word giueth which in this contempt of vertue and religion is moste necessarie for all men to consider FVLKE There is no power or authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ to preach the word of God or to minister anie sacrament but the same is common to euerie one of the Pastoures of the Church and not onelie lawfull but also necessarie for them to exercise in their seuerall charges Wherefore that ministering of some sacraments is permitted to them and of other denied them it is beside the word of god Againe the word of god that giueth them general power whose sinnes soeuer whatsoeuer you shal bind or loose is directlie against al exempted cases which sauor of nothing but of Antichristian tyrannie As for the cannons of Counceles and decrees of Bishoppes whether you send the simple to learne the limites of their charge can not restraine that Christ hath enlarged and therefore if your meaning were as your wordes professe to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Christes owne worde geueth you would enueigh against the pride and ambition of the Pope other prelates that exempt anie cases from the Priests power and authoritie which the holie scripture and the expresse wordsof our sauiour Christ doth in such ample manner graunt vnto them ALLEN Therefore vpon our large discourses for this last point I now deduct the particulars to this summe which maie stand for a certaine marke as well for the good to discerne the trueth as for the aduersaries to shoote at whiles they liue Alpower and euery iurisdiction or right of Christs Church remaineth as amplie and in as full force and strength at this daie and shall till the worlds end so continue as they were by Christ graunted first in the persons of the Apostles or other instituted But the power of remission of sinnes was giuen properlie and in expresse termes to the Apostles Ergo the same remaineth still in Gods Church Whereupon it is so cleare that the Priestes at this day haue as ful power to forgiue sins as the Apostles had And this argument of the continuance of all offices and righte of the Church is the moste plainest and readiest waie not onelie to helpe our cause now taken in hand but vtterlie to improoue all false doctrines and detestable practises of heretikes For they must here be examined diligentlie what common wealth that is what Church that is in which Christ doth prescrue the gouernment giuen to the Apostles where it is that the power not onely os making but also of practizing al sacraments hath continued still what companie of Christian people that is wherein the Apostles Doctors preachers ministers through the perpetuall assistance of Gods spirit be continued for the building vp of Christes bodie which is the number of faithful people What Church that is which bringeth forth from time to time sonnes to occupy the romes of their fathers before them It is not good reader the pelting packe of Protestants It is not I saie and they knowe it is not their petie congregations that hath till this daie continued the succession of Blshoppes by whome the world as Saint Augustine saith is ruled as by the Apostles and first Fathers of Religion Surely our mother the Church hath hene long baren if for her Fathers the Apostles who died so long since she neuer brought forth children til now to occupie their roomes and
were by them Baptized it seemeth they take it of their Master Nouatus who because he had contemned he ceremonie vsed in that time of the Church him-selfe taught his schollers to doe the same left it should hawe beene reputed a want in him Although not the omission of the ceremonie but the contempt of the vsage of the Church being not impious in it selfe was chiefelie condemned in him For at such times as he was ordained Elder or Priest of the Church of ãâã it was thought by the Bishope a matter that might be remitted in him that for other respectes seemed meete for the office neither was it thought necessarie that he should receiue that cerimonie so by him omitted but not yet as it was thought in despight of the Church refused The Fathers oflater time as Theodoret writeth decreed that such as came from his heresie and would be incorporated into the Church should by receiuing that cerimonie which in time of their heresie they despised declare that they were truelie conuerted from it and willinghe submitted themselues to the Catholike Church and her Doctrine But of late daies when that ceremonie of anointing hath beene accounted a Sacrament yea and a greater Sacrament then Baptisme and thought necessary to eternall saluation whereas yet it hath no institution of Christ set forth in the holie Scriptures the reformed Churches haue iustlie abrogated that custome according to that libertie which the Church hath in all ceremonies not commaunded by God according to the example of the Church in former ages which hath abrogated manie ceremonies vsed of auncient times aswell as that of anointing with oile them that are Baptized ALLEN And first because generallie all the foresaid ioyne together against the trueth in this argument that it is dishonour to god and great presumption in a mortall man to claime the power so proper to God let the studious reader well consider that no function power ne dignitie be it neuer so peculiar to God him-selfe by naturaii excellencie but the same maie be occupied of man secondarilie as by the waie of seruice ministery or participation so that man challenge nor vsurpe it not as of him selfe or when it is not lawfuliie receaued nor orderlie giuen All the workes that extraordinarilie and miraculouslie were wrought either by Christ in his humanitie or by the Prophets or Apostles wordes or by their garments or by what other instrumeÌt so euer they were donne were the works of god no lesse then to remit sins yet al these things other the like brought to passe by man through the power of god that worketh by mans ministerie the same nothing derogateth to gods glorie but infinitelie augmenteth his honour euen so the power of pardoning mans sins being emploied by God the father vpon Christ his sonne by Christ vpon his Church ministers practized by them not of their owne might heades but in the ãâã of the holie ghost which by the sonne of god was ãâã vpon them this authoritie I saie is no derogation but an euident signe of his mightie power of saluation left for the faithfulls sake in the Church When the person that was lame from his birth begged of Peter and Iohn somewhat for his reliefe at the Temole dore as his manner was Peter answered him that golde and siluer he had none to giue but that which he had he would willinglie bestowe which was power to heale him of his incurable maladie for proofe whereof he bad him arise and walke and so he did at his word in the sight of all that there were gathered which being done and the people wondering thereat the Apostle thus instructed them Brethren faith he why wonder you at vs as though we had brought this strange worke to passe by our owne strength and power it is the God of Abraham Isaac Iacob that hath glorified his sonne Iesus whome you refused and betraied to Pontius Pilatus to be crucified in his name and faith this poore man is recouered Marcke well that the same thing which peter said him selfe had to giue quod habeo tibi do the same yet he professeth that he holdeth not as of his owne right or might but as of Christ Iesus in whose name he willed the lame to walke euen so the the power of pardoning sinner is truely and properly in the Priestes as the power of working miracles is properly in Peters hands neither the one noryet the other holden as of their owne might and power but both practized for the glory of God in the name of Iesus of Nazareth by their appointed ministery And as truly as Peter might saie to the feeble in body that which I haue I giue thee rise and walke in the name of iesos of Nazareth so surelie may the Priest saie to the sicke in souie that which I haue I giue thee in the name of Iesus thy Ennes my sonne be forgiuen thee No lesse is the one the peculiar worke of God then the other no more doth one dishonor god then the other FVLKE Nothing that is proper or peculiar to God can be communicated to man but it ceaseth to be proper to God For it is against the nature of properties to be made common to any other subiect then to that whereof they are proper adiuncts And yet I denie not but that which is proper to God he doth exercise often times by the seruice or ministery of men in which they are but instrumental causes he him selfe is the principal efficient otherwise man maie not occupie or execute secondly or thirdly or last of all by waie of participation that which is proper or peculiar to God So that it remaneth still an vndoubted truth that God onelie doth forgiue sinnes properlie and man doth not forgiue sinnes properlie but is the instrument of God to vtter and declare the good pleasure of God in forgiuing sinnes to all and euerie one that repent and beleeue the Gospe ll Your general negatiue that there is no function power nor dignitie be it neuer so peculiar to God by naturall excellencie but it maie be occupied of man secondly as by the waie of seruice ministery or participation if it were vrged against you would breed horrible absurdities To omit all other the power of creating thinges of nothing by what meanes maie man be partaker thereof occupie it or exercise it But let vs consider your induction All Miraculous workes worught by Christ in his humanitie the Prophets or Apostles were no lesse proper to God then the power to remit sinnes Yes verilie for manie miraculous workes that God did by Moses the inchaunters of Egipt did the like by the power of the deuill whereby it appeareth that although ail power be deriued from God as from the first cause thereof euen that power which the deuill hath yet it is otherwise communicated to creatures then the power of remission of sinnes is For that remaineth onelie in the hande of God and is not properlie
as sickenes might often take holde of men Yours is not extreame it may be repeated if it may not be repeated it is not the vnction that S. Iames speaketh of Of the sayings of Epiphanius and Lactantius we haue spoken before which it were needeles here to repeate That there was a ceremonie vsed in reconciling of publike penitents I denie not but that there was a sacrament of penance you haue hetherto brought no good euidence For your argument to prooue that they talke not of inward repentance but of an action solemnly exercised because we heare that the priest is minister is no good euidence for the priest is minister of the worde as well as of the sacraments ALLEN Which trueth Saint Cyrill vttereth most plainlie for our purpose treating thus vpon the words of institution of this sacrament Cùm ipsiremittunt aut detinent spiritus qui habitat in eis per ipsosremittit aut detinet fit autem id duobus modis primùm Baptisme deinde Poenitenita When the priestes remit sinnes or reteine them the holie ghost which which dwelleth in them doth remit or retein by them Which is done two manner of waies first in Baptisme and then afterward in penance Saint Cyprian also said that the holie ghost worketh remission of sinnes whether it be in baptisme or by other sacraments Whereby he cleerelie vttereth his meaning that there should be moe sacraments then one instituted by Christ for that purpose In all which congruitie of Gods holie working by diuerse sacraments the remission of sinnes we conclude against heresie that the priesis power herein derogateth no more to god nor our sauiour in the sacrament of penance then is doth before by baptisme or after by extreame vnction in none of al which as I haue prooued before Christ doth resigne his power and proper iurisdiction to the priestes but continuing euerlastinglie in like preheminence and power as before worketh his grace and remission of sinnes in all these Sacraments by the priests seruice and ministerie that it maybe yet as truelie as in his life time said and so shall be to the worlds ende Christ baptizeth Christ shriueth assoileth and anointeth sinners for remission of their offences Although Iesus doth none of these now nor much did in his life time but his disciples then and his disciples now doe the same holie actions in his name FVLKE There is nothing in Saint Cyrills wordes to prooue that there is a sacrament of repentance beside baptisme but that the holie ghost doth remit or reteine by his ministers by two waies namelie by baptisme by repentance after baptisme For if you will restraine the worde poenitentia to your pretended sacrament then this absurditie will follow that seeing there are but two waies by which the spirit remitteth sinnes they are not remitted without that sacrament neither by true contrition of heart without any sacrament not by receiuing the Lordes supper nor by your extreame vnction Therefore poenitentia in Saint Cyrill signifieth repentance and is necessarilie required in them that shall obteine remission of sinnes by participation of the Lordes supper or by faith without any sacrament That Cyprian maketh moe sacraments then one instituted by Christ to assure vs of remission of sinnes it is true For by the sacrament of the bodie and bloode of Christ worthelie receiued we haue this assurance also as well as by the sacrament of baptisme To conclude the power of Christ or of his ministers graunted by him we denie not but the institution of the sacrament of penance we require to be shewed out of the holie scriptures if you will haue vs to beleeue it ALLEN To conclude this matter I argue thus It is no dishonour to God for the priest to remit sinnes as well originall as actuall of all sortes and grauitie in the sacrament of Baptisme by the Protestantes owne confession nor by extreame vnction by the warrant both of scripture and Doctors Ergo remission of sinnes is not vnlawfull nor dishonourable to God to be giuen by the priest in the solemne sacrament of penance And further I ioyne with them thus The word of God is much more plaine and expresse for the priests warrant to remit sinnes in penance then in Baptisme but they may lawfullie doe it in Baptisme Ergo they may doe it no lesse lawfullie in penance Compare the wordes of institution of them both and iudge your selues of your indifferencie and sinceritie by what right you remooue the one and reteine the other I praie God you seeke not shortelie to baptize vs onely by your preaching as you now will onelie absolue vs by the same But truelie I thinke you be in the case that Saint Ambrose tooke Nouatus your forefather to haue bene in not onelie for that that he saieth Nouatus where he listed would admit power to priests of remission But where he listed not there the grace giuen to them must be dishonoured to God So that of thinges equallie commended by scripture and commaunded by God the good man must haue choise for his tooth not onelie in this point I now compare our choise men but much more in that which followeth in the saide Saint Ambrose of all Nouatians whome he trippeth pretelie with this terme delicati mei My delicate gentlemen saith he with their lustie lookes and swelling hartes can not abide in their brauerie to looke vpon a poore caitisse weeping for his sinnes abundantlie apparelled mourninglie in sad and sorowfull companie and so forth And this surelie is the disease of our daies which hath not onelie infected the vnfaithfull but also hath made these holie thinges lothsome euen to the better sorte of Gods people So much is mans will and pleasure pampered where Gods worde and writing should be onelie followed For the necessarie bearing with such frailtie euen of the good almost generallie the Church of God hath sought and allowed much more gentle remedies then the worlde had wont full gladlie to beare for their greeuous sinnes FVLKE We confesse that it is no dishonour to God that the minister lawfullie authorized should remit sinnes in such sorte as he hath commission namelie by declaring the wil of God that they are by him remitted and giuing the seales or sacraments of God for more full assurance of performance as euen the Master of the sentences teacheth out of S. Augustine and other Doctors whose words I wil set downe that the indifferent reader may see how you agree with your owne principal piller and post of Poperie who in this point seemeth to be more sound yet then you Cùm veraciter ad Deum conuerso peccata dimittuntur ab iis dimittuntur quibus ipse veraci conuersione coniungitur Spiritus sanctus ea dimittit qui datus est omnibus sanctis sibi charitare cohaer entibus siue se nouerint corporaliter siue non Similiter cum alicuius tenentur peccato ab eis tenentur quibus ille cordis prauitate disiungitur siue
tyrannical while you inforce men to confesse their secret sinnes to a popish Priest where of there is no commaundement in the holie scriptures and partlie it is an encouragement vnto securitie a pampering in sinne while the fraile and foolish man is persuaded that by the heard confession absolution receiued of the Priest he is cleerelie discharged of his sinnes and may be toti es quoties with a litle pretie penance enioyned him for satisfaction But it is a firme principle you saie that in all formes of penance the penitent had remission of his sinnes for which he did penance no otherwise but by the ministerie of the Priestes A heauie case where the Priestes were straight laced and would retaine sinnes where God was readie to forgiue What is this els but to restraine the mercie of God to the ministerie of vnskilfull men At what howre so euer the sinner doth truelie repent the Lord remitteth his sinnes But man can not allwaies see or by outward tokens iudge of true and inward repentance Therefore it is a firme principle that God often times forgaue sinnes to the penitent otherwise then by the ministerie of the Prieste Men maie erre in exercising outward discipline but Gods remission is not staied vpon mans error Where you conclude that as the diuerse vse of baptisme hindreth not but that in substance it is the same so the sacrament of penance notwithstanding the diuers formes and manners in which it hath or is now vsed Your comparison is nought For baptisme is a sacrament of Christes institution your popish penance can neuer be prooued to be a sacrament Therfore your argument à paribus is of no force Whether the Church did well to restraine baptisme to certaine solemne feastes I will not here dispute That remission of sinnes hath beene ioyned often both in the law of nature and Moses to some externall ceremonies and sacrifices whereof in the olde law Priestes were appointed ministers THE NINTH CHAP. LEt no man vpon consideration of these thinges either reprehend or maruatle at the counsel and ordinance of god that he being hable to gouerne his creatures and amend or correct pardon or punish euerie mans misdeedes by him-selfe without all helpe and seruice of anie other his subiect natures that it pleaseth his wisdome for all that to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministerie in sundrie sacramentes In sober consideration of these thinges mans reason maie well be satisfied if he can conceiue that it is the honour and estimation of our kinde with almightie God our maker that he gouerneth not our affaires onelie by him selfe in his owne person but also that we be ruled and led in the waies of Gods will by one an other that the maiestie of God which most appeareth in regiment and in remitting of sinnes in correcting of ãâã and iudgement might be cleerelie seene in our kinde amongst our selues to our comfort and Gods no disgracing nor dishonour at all And therefore Saint Augustine saith of the like doubt of some in his daies which would not be taught by man but by Gods owne spirit Abiecta esset humana conditio si per homines hominibus verbum suum Deus ministrare nolle videretur Quomodo enim verum esset quod dictum est Templum enim Dei sanctum est quod estis vos si de humano templo Deus responsa non redderet Mans state were too base if God would not that his word should be ministred by one man to another For how should this truelie be spoken the temple of God is holie the which temple you are if God gaue not answers by mans temple This is one great respect surelie especialle since the second person in Trinitie tooke vpon him our nature by whome the woorthines of mankinde is much increased and more fit then euer before to serue ech other as in the workes that be diuine and properlie by nature belonging to God himselfe An other respect why we should by externall sacraments and mans ministerie receiue grace and remission of sinnes is the singular respect had by God of our infirmitie as well of minde as bodie For the minde requireth in her assured deseruing of damnation some externall token by which she maie haue good cause to hope of mercie and grace For where I know and assure myselfe that originall sinne is remitted by baptisme when I haue once receiued the same then I am in no further doubt of my selfe nor anie damnation for that sinne which by the promis of God I haue learned shall be washed awaie thereby as by an externall instrument in which he conueigheth that benefit to my soule if my soule by indisposition and unaptnes do not hinder the assured fruit thereof So where after Baptisme mans life is often defiled by greeuons sinnes and God highlie displeased therefore what an infinite treaskre it is and how great a comfort to haue an assured helpe therof wrought so by mans ministery in a visible action that I maie know sauing for mine owne lack of connenient disposition my sinnes to be forgiuen and Gods mercie and fauour to be obteined againe We maie conceiue easily what a passing comfort it was to the parties that heard sensiblie by the outward wordes of Christes owne mouth thy sinnes be forgiuen thee The said persons beleeuing in Christ and lamenting for their sinnes past might haue had some hope of remission by Christ though he had said no such thing vnto them yet he that perceiueth not what comfort of conscience what inward ioy of minde what reioysing of the spirit they must needes haue that had Christes testimonie and blessing in plaine termes for the same purpose he seeth nothing at all FVLKE That God hath vsed in all ages to testifie and assure men of his grace and mercie to the forgiuenes of their sinnes by outward signes and sacraments and that for diuerse good causes we are allwaies readie to acknowledge But that it pleaseth his wisdome as you saie to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministery in sundry sacraments we do vtterlie denie For that were to tie the grace of God to the outward sacraments which is most free to worke either with them or without them The penitent publicane an example of persons that seeke iustification had his sinnes forgiuen him by the onelie grace and mercie of God taken holde of by faith without al external orders ioyned to mans ministerie in any sacrament For if we acknowledge our sins he is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all vnrighteousnes And Iesus Christ is our aduocate with the father to obtaine remission of sinnes And if anie man shal see his brother sinne a sinne not to death he shall ask he will giue life vnto him that sinneth not vnto death By all which testimonies and an hundreth more that are euery where to
be found in the scripture it is most cleere that God forgiueth our sinnes otherwise then by externall orders or sacramets Againe the sacrament of Baptisme is a seale and assurance vnto vs of the forgiuenes of our sinnes not onely such as are com mitted before baptisme receiued but euen vnto our liues end whensoeuer we are truelie penitent for the same Also the sacrament of the Lords supper in which we are spirituallie fed with the bodie of Christ which was giuen for vs and with his blood which was shed for the remission of our sinnes is a sure pledge token and seale of the remission of our sinnes committed after baptisme that we neede not the Popish sacrament of pennance for the same ALLEN As for my selfe good Christian Reader I am not so free from sinne wo is me therefore nor so void of mans affection but as often I heare in the sacrament of penance the Priest who to me then is Christ in full power of pardoning saying the wordes of absolution ouer me me think truelie I heare the sweete voice of Christ saying with authoritie thy sinnes be forgiuen thee Whereof no mortallman shall euer forbid me to take hope and singular trust of remission of sinnes with the passing comfort that thereon ensueth All these that are without Christes folde seeke not to heare his voice for all their load of sinne from the heauenlie and intire ioy whereof they be as farre as from the conceiuing of of the felicitie to come in heauen it selfe But let them assure themselues that Christ writeth with his holie finger all their sinnes though to Christ they will not now confesse them whiles they refuse the power ofremission that he both had aud hath in earth to the worldes end without which outward solemne act of penance man should either dispaire of Gods mercie and liue in feare intollerable of euerlasting perishing which often fall to timerous consciences or els which is now of daies more common men would liue in such passing presumption and vaine securitie of heauen that they should neuer till the very last breath of their euill time either be sorie for sinne or seke to do any good worke at al. This time shall testifie with me herein and the verie diuersitie that is betweene these our corrupt conditions and the holy studies and endeauours of our forefathers shalltestifie but the daies that yet are to come must need most feele the smart of it when these that now haue the direction of other mens steppes shall be gone by whome for olde discipline wherein they were brought vp Some signes and remnantes of vertue be continued in the world For when they be spent and our yonkers that neuer heard of the Churches discipline but haue had their full swinge in sinne with the instruction of a most wanton doctrine shall be the principall of the people if this diuision so long continue which God forbid into what terms shal trueth and vertue be then brought Me think I see before hand the lamentable state of things and in a manner beholde the fruit of our onelie faith of this bolde presumption of Gods mercie of remouing the discipline of penance of refusing the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes Euil are we now but a thousand partes worsse shal they be then which in long nouseling in this naughtie learning of libertie shall be in perpetuall wo and haue no feele nor sense thereof And all this must needs follow vpon the lack of these outward acts external waies of pardoning punishing offences and intended either for mans present comfort and solace or els to keepe in awe the wantons of the world by the rodde of outward discipline which in the Church hath euer especiallie beene obserued in the sacrament of penance FVLKE When we heare the authorized embassadours and messengers of reconciliation pronounce in the name of Christ according to the scriptures and promises of God that our sinnes are forgiuen vs whensoeuer we be hartilie sorie truely penitent for the same we haue sufficient warrant out of Gods word to assure our selues of remission of them with inestimable ioy comfort of conscience But for the sacrament of penance or the Priest to be Christ vnto vs in fullpower of pardoning or to haue anie wordes of absolution said ouer vs because we haue no ground in Gods word whatsoeuer imaginarie pleasure you haue therein we finde nothing that is of force to staie a weake conscience to comfort a troubled spirit or to heale a broken heart To confesse our sinnes to Christ who onelie knoweth whether our repentance be vnfained God forbid that we should refuse But to confesse them to a Popish Priest or anie lawfull minister if they be secret there is no law or commaundement of God to require vs. If our conscience be not satisfied about anie offence that we haue committed how we should declare our vnfained conuersion or repentance we maie vse the aduise of the Godlie and learned pastor who is able out of the word of god toresolue our doubts and quiet our conscience That the want of Popish pennance will driue all men either to desperation or securitie and presumption it is affirmed without anie proofe God be praised experience cryeth out of the contrarie side But rather the doctrine of poperie concerning the pretensed sacrament of penance is manifest occasion of securitie in them that are carnallie minded of desperation in them that haue a tender conscience For the one thinketh he hath an easy remedy for his sinnes to discharge them into a priestes eare the other considering the impossibilitie of confession and vnsufficiency of the satisfaction that be parts of this counterfet sacrament can finde smal comfort in the priests absolution Your blasphemous rayling at the doctrine of God iustifying by faith onely which you cal the instruction of a most wanton doctrine and the naughtie learning of libertie is sufficiently confuted by the examples of many thousands of Gods Saints who acknowledging that they are iustified in the sight of God by faith onelie in the merites of Christ are more fruitfull in good workes then all the popish hypocrites in the world Where you terme your popish penance to be the onely ordinance of god for remission of our mortall sinnes you vtter not onelie a grosse contradiction of the trueth taught in the holie scriptures but also directlie contrarie to the doctrine of all Papists and euen of your selfe For what saie you M. Allen were you wel aduised when you said that penance is the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortal sins If it be as you saie then the sacrifice of the masse is not the ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes as al Papists beside you do holde and mantaine and extreame vnction wherof you haue latelie affir med the contrarie is not the ordinance of God for the remission of our mortall sinnes The discipline of the Church wherby wantons are kept in
in renecessarilie rife for theie of all Christian people doth him confession of euerie of their mortall sinnes vnto h as the same is also prooued by the doctrine of the olie Fathers of Chistes Church THE TENTH CHAP. ALLEN ANd now I must aduertise my louing breethrenof the necessarie sequele hereof which to some I know seemeth so hard and vpleasant that the verie consideration thereof hath driuen manie that haue not felt the sweetenesse of Gods spirit by which euerie of his commaundements be they neuer so rough in apparance are made easie and delectable to the feare misliking and lothsomenes of the sacrament of penance Which as it is for other causes manie much abhorred of the wantons latelie departed out of the Church and of some worldlie Catholikes to that be not so zelouse in following trueth as they be desirous to know trueth so it is most lothed and feared for that in it there is required a distinct simple sincere and plaine confesfion to be made of euerie sinne that is knowne or suspected to be mortall vnto a Priest which is the lawfull minister of the same Sacrament with such diligent and exact examination of our consciences as a matter of such importance doth of reason require This is the great offence and staie that the weaklings of Christes Church do so earnestlie respect and so long they shall be vexed and molested in minde with the sower remembrance thereof as they do not prooue the sweete gratious and incomparable effect ensueing most assuredlie thereon so long shall they stumble at so small a straw as they do not feele the burden of sinne feare the paines of hell follow the quiet of conscience foresee the dreadfull daie of iudgement so long shall they be bashfull to submit them selues to one mans most close secret meeke and merciful iudgement as they feare not the infinite shame open horrible confusion and euerlasting rebuke before God Angell man and Deuill at the seat and sentence that shall be pronounced in the face of all creatures which must fall to them that close vp vnder couer and compas of their conscience such a number of manifold sinnes whereof in that daie both account and confession must be made to their vttermost confusion Finally so long shal mans will and corrupted nature disobey Gods ordinance heerein as he earnestlie and humbly seeketh not by praier at Christes handes the grace and gift of obedience and repentance Fot as the fulfilling of euerie of Gods commaundements cannot otherwise be had but by his speciall fauour so saith Saint Augustine or as some thinke rather Fulgentius Firmissime tene nullatenus dubites neminem hic posse hominem panitentiam agere nist quem Deus illuminauerit gratuita sua mis ratione conuertis Hold this for an assurance that no man can here do penance except he be illumined and conuerted theseunto by his singular mercie Neither doth this Doctour mean of anie otherway of repentance then is vsed for mortal sinnes after baptisme in the sacrament of the Church putting there in a manner by expresse wordes a double sacrament one for originall sinne that is in children onelie and that he calleth Sacramentum fidei that other for sinnes afterward committed which he tearmeth Poenitentiam Penance FVLKE That auricular confession or popish shrift is a necessarie sequele of the power that Christ hath giuen to the ministers of his Church to forgiue sinnes we must now see in what sorre you are able to prooue In which argument though most needfull for your purpose you haue verie litle to saie and that nothing to the purpose in deede either out of the scripture or out of the auncient fathers First you saie that shrift seemeth hard to them that haue not felt the sweetenes of Gods spirit by which euerie of his commaundements are made easie and delectable Here therefore were conuenient place for you to shew where in all the scriptures God hath commaunded men to confesse all their mortal sinnes committed in thought word or deede vnto a priest of your order But now you are as drie as a kixe and as barren of proofe as a pumisse stone of water There be many other causes then you alledge why popish shrift is so burthenous And the principall cause is because it is a tradition of man to clogge the conscience with intollerable seruitude And in stead of al the causes of the contempt thereof that you alledge so long shall euerie Christian man despise your auricular confession as any thing necessary required of him vntill you be able out of the holie scriptures inspired of God to prooue that it is such an ordinance of God as you in many wordes to no purpose doe bragge of before you bring forth the worde of God to prooue it The saying of Fulgentius is verie Godly and grounded vpon the holy scriptures but that he doth not meane of any other waie of repentance then is vsed in your popish Church what argument haue you to shew He putteth there you saie in a manner by expresse wordes a double sacrament calling the one sacramentum fidei and the other poenitentiam the sacrament of faith and repentance This is a strange manner of expresse wordes to prooue poenitentia to be a sacrament because baptisme is so yea it is manifest by his expresse words that he acknowledgeth no sacramentum poenitentiae but baptisine Cap. 30. Firmissimè tene nullatenus dubites exeptis illis qui pro nomine Christi suo sanguine baptizantur nullum hominem accepturum vitam aeternam qui non hîc à malis suis fuerit per penitentiam fidemque conuersus per sacramentum fidei penitentioe id est per baptismum liberatus maioribus quidem necessarium esse poenitentiam de malis suis agere fidem Catholicam secundùm regulam veritatis tenere sacramentum baptismatis accipere Paruulis verò qui nec propria voluntate credere nec poenitentiam pro peccato quod originaliter trahunt agere possunt sacramentum fidei quod est sanctum baptisma quamdiu rationis oetas eorum capax esse non potest sufficere ad salutem Holde thou most stedfastlie and nothing doubt that except those which for the name of Christ are baptized in their owne blood no man shall receiue life euerlasting which shall not be here conuerted from his euills by repentance and faith and by the sacrament of faith and repentance that is by baptisme be deliuered And for them that be of yeares truelie it is necessarie both to repent of their euills and to know the Catholike faith according to the rule of trueth and to receiue the sacrament of Baptisme But for infants which neither can beleeue by their owne will nor be penitent for the sinne which they draw originally the sacrament of faith which is baptisme is sufficient for them vnto saluation so long as their age cannot be ca pable of reason yea it semeth by this saying going imme diately before
they are not crowned if they be not didicated But if they be washed in their own blood this mans will pietie also hath washed him Againe he saith speaking in an Apostrophe to him Quis dabit tefrater fratrem mihi lactentem vbera matris meae hoc est non quicunque te sed Christus illuminabit gratia spirituali ille te baptizauit quia humana tibi officia defuerunt Who shall giue thee brother to be my brother sucking the papes of my mother that is not euerie one but Christ him selfe shall lighten thee with spirituall grace He hath baptized thee because the seruice of man was wanting to thee By all which wordes it is manifest that S. Ambrose vnderstood not those wordes of our sauiour Christ of externall baptisme as you doe when he refuseth not them that haue a purpose and will to be baptized and are preuented by necessity of time But where you proceed and dare be bolde to saie that neuer man was saued that either contemned or neglected confession if you meane popish auricular and as you after call it sacramentall confession I dare be bolde to saie you speake vntrulie because the word of God prescribeth no such confession as necessarie to saluation Confession of that we beleeue and of our sins before God I knowe to be necessarie to saluation Neither can you prooue that they which dispise popish shrift be contemners of Gods ordinance for the Minor of your syllogisme that followeth is a lowd lie that your popish sacrament of penance and confession made to the Priest is the appointed meanes that God vseth in his Church for remission of mortall sinnes for God hath appointed no such sacrament or confession as necessarie meanes without the which remission of sinnes may not be obtained Your similitude of baptisme will prooue nothing except you can first prooue your confession to be of Gods institution as necessarie for doing awaie sinnes committed after baptisme as baptisme is by Christs ordinance the seale of regeneration by which we are assured of the remissioÌ of our sins ALLEN And yet me thinke I heare alreadie the sounde of the deceitfull voices of our Preachers It is Christes bloode that remitteth sinnes Come to me all ye that are heauie loaden and I shall refresh you I am he saith the Lord that putteth awaie thy sinnes with a thousand such like as though Christes bloode did not stand with Christes ordinances and sacraments as though they came not to Christ that keepe the waie of his will and sacraments to come vnto him as though God did not remit those sinnes which in his name and in his sacraments and by his appointed minister be remitted Protestant saie plainlie will thou refuse baptisme because Christes bloode washeth awaie originall sinnes If thou darest not openlie so preach although couertly thou maie chaunce so intend how darest thou deceiue the people and draw them from penance and confession because Christes blood doth remit sinnes For if the one sacrament may stand with the honour of God and with all those places that thou bringest so deceitfullie out of the scripture why may not the other seeing both are prooued alike to be instituted of Christ For the same selfe sauiour which said Come to me ye that be loaden and I shall refresh you he and no other said except you be borne of water and the holie Ghost you cannot enter into the kingdome of heauen The same God that said I am he that putteth awaie thy sinnes saith now to the Apostles and Priestss whose sinnes you doe forgiue forgiuen be they The same Spirit of God that said in the Prophet Confesse your selues to the Lorde for he his good said now againe in the Apostle confesse your sinnes one to another that you maie be saued By which he meaneth not as Origen venerable Bede and other doe declare so much brotherly acknowledging sor counsellor other causes the greefe of minde ech man to his fellowe as he doth the order of sacramentall confession to be made vnto gods Priests as it may well appeere by the circumstance of the letter For there he had willed them to send for the Priestes of the Church to annoile them streight after addeth this alledged text of confession and praing ouer the sicke The which place the heretikes sawe to sounde so manie waies as well towardes the sacrament of extreame vnction as the sacrament of confession both which they haue vnworthilie abandoned that they thought it not amisse either to denie the Apostles authoritie and the wholl epistle as no peece of holie scripture as Luther and other did or else which was after thought more handsome conueiance to corrupt the text and write instead of send for the Priestes of the Church thus call the elders of the congregation For they thought it might sounde euill to haue in one sentence priestes Church confession remission of sinnes release of paines for sinne annoiling praying ouer the sicke and so forth FVLKE It is no deceitfull voice of our preachers to affirme by these and a thousand such like textes of scripture that it belongeth to God onelie to forgiue sins properlie satisfaction being made for them by the bloode of Christ. And yet we derogat nothing from Christes ordinances and sacraments by which he worketh effectuall assurance of the same We acknowledge the ministerie of the Apostles and their lawful successours for the remission and retaining of sinnes both by preaching and by ministering of the sacraments instituted by our sauiour Christ. But we denie and dare stand to the deniall with all the papists that hath beene are or shal be that popish penance and confession is anie sacrament of our sauiour Christes institution for he that said whose sinnes you forgiue forgiuen be they hath not said whosoeuer will haue his sinnes forgiuen by you must haue some penance by you inioyned for satisfaction of Gods iustice yea there is nothing more contrarie to forgiuenes then satisfaction made by the partie to whome sinnes should be forgiuen And he that said confesse your offences one to another and praie one for an other that you maie be healed saith no where confesse all your sinnes vnto a Priest that you may be saued but willeth a mutuall acknoledgeing and reconciliation of one Christian man to another where there hath bin anie trespasse of such offences as one man hath committed against another and a mutuall acknowledging of our sinfullnes one to another that we may be sturred vp to mutuall praier By which textre the Priest is asmuch bounde to shriue himselfe to his parishioner as the parishioner to the Priest But Origen and Bede are alledged to prooue that the Apostle meaneth not onlie of such acknowledgeing nor so much thereof as the order of sacramental confession Verilie when the wordes of the scripture are plaine the sense ãâã to be gathered of the plaine words we may not restin anie mans opinion that is contrary to the same The word ãâã ãâã
ãâã ãâã ãâã euerie man that hath but small knowledge in the tongue doth know to signifie and require a mutual confession aswell as a mutuall praier of one man for another But yet let vs examine what your authorities doe containe First Origen in the place by you cited speaketh not a word of this text confesse your offences one to another but only of the two verses going before For making seauen meanes of remitting of sinnes after his corrupt vnpure manner of teaching By baptisme by martyrdome by almes by forgiueing one another by conuerting of sinners by aboundance of charitie he addeth the seauenth in these wordes Est adhuc septima licet dura laboriosa perpaenitentiam remissio peccatorum cum lauat peccator in lachrimis stratum suum fiunt ei lachrima suae pánes die nocte Et cùm non erubescit sacerdoti Domini indicare peccatum suum quaerere medicinam secundùm eum qui ait Dixi pronunciabo aduersum me iniustitiam meam Domino tu remisisti impietatem cordis mei in quo impletur illud quod Apostolus dicit si quis autem insirmatur vocet Presbyteror Ecclesiae imponant ei manus vngentes eum oleo in nomine Domini oratio fidei saluabit ãâã si in peccatis fuerit remittentur ei There remaineth yet the seauenth kinde of remission of sins although it be verie harde and painfull by repentance When the sinner washeth his bed in teares and his teares are made vnto him breade daie and night and when he is not ashamed to declare his sinne to the Priest of the Lorde and to seeke medicine acording to him which saith I haue said I will pronounce against my selfe my owne vnrighteousnes vnto the Lord and thou hast forgiuen me the vngodlines of my heart In which also that is fullfilled which the Apostle saith if anie man be diseasedl et him call the Elders of the Church let them lay hands vpon him anoynting him with oile in the name of the Lord and the praier of faith shall saue the diseased and if he shal be in sinnes they shal be forgiuen vnto him Thus much writeth Origen Now it is to be vnderstood that after his manner he alligorizeth vpon the sacrifices of the lawe comparing these meanes of remission to them And lest you should thinke that by declaring of sinne to the Priest of the Lord he doth meane confession to a popish priest he himselfe expoundeth before whom he meaneth by this Priest In morali loco potest pontisex isse esse sensus pietatis religionis videri qui in nobis per orationem obsecrationes quas Deo fundimus velut quodam sacerdotio fungitur In morall place this high Priest may seeme to be the sense of godlines religion which within vs by praiers and supplications which we powre forth to God exerciseth as it were a certaine priesthood And so likewise he taketh the place of Saint Iames alligoricallie as his application of the seauenth waie of remission vnto the Iudaicall sacrifice doth declare Si autem in amaritudine fletus fueris luctu lachrimis lamentatione confect us si carnem tuam maceraueris ãâã ac multa abstinentia aridam feceris dixeris quia sicut frixorium confrixa sunt ossa mea tunc sacrificium similam à sartagine vel à craticula obiulisse te ãâã But if thou hast bene in the bitternes of weeping consumed with sorowe teares and lamentation if thou hast afflicted thy slesh and made it drie with fasting and much abstinence and said my bones are fried as a frying pane or a fire thing then knowe that thou hast offered in sacrifice flower of the frying panne or of the gredeyorn Origen therefore giueth a colour in words but no substance in matter vnto this popish confession Concerning the opinion and authoritie of Bede touching this matter I haue spoken before but by the circumstance of the letter you saie it may well appeere that the Apostle speaketh of sacramentall confession to be made to gods priests How so I praie you forsooth Because he had there willed them to send for the Priestes of the Church to anoynt them and streight after addeth this text of confession and praying ouer the sicke A simple reason god wot because priests were spoken of in an other matter therefore none but priests may be vnderstoode in that which followeth nay rather the circumstances make against auricular confession and popish anointing also For what needes more priests then one to be sent for to other of those popish purposes or what papist sendeth for more although there be neuer so manie priests in the Church But the companie of elders in the primitiue Church being chosen of the moste replenished with heauenly graces that were in the congregatioÌ both for the gift of healing for praier to be made ouer the sick man were most conuenient to be sent for But it is in vaine by couller of anie circumstances to restraine the confession to priestes when the verie wordes of the letter as you call the text doe make it generall and mutual and therefore here was no cause for Luther to denie the authoritie of the epistle or for anie other to corrupt the text But where you count it a corruption to writ in stead of send for the priestes of the Church this call for the Elders of the congregation you doe either abuse the ignorant of willfull malice to make them thinke the sounde of words being changed the sense is anie thing altered or else you ignorantlie quarell about the translation which is word for word out of the originall greeke into English as no man meanelie learned in that tongue can doubt It is not the sounde of the wordes you rehearse that troubleth vs for we both like and vse them in their right sense our selues but it sufficeth you to haue an accidentall sounde when you cannot sinde a substantiall reason of your popish ceremonies and sacraments in the holie scriptures ALLEN But that thou maiest see good Christian reader the necessity of confession the better and that it is not growne to such a generall practize and opinion of necessitie vpon anie charge giuen by man or positiue lawes marke well with me that it dependeth directlie vpon Christes owne wordes whose sinnes you doe forgiue they be forgiuen and whose sinnes you doe retaine they be retained And therefore sacramentall confession to be of Christes institution For if Christ gaue power to Priestes to forgiue or retaine mens sinnes then there must needes be some subiect to their power iudgement else in vaine were so long a confession of binding and lossing mens sinnes if the right of the power did not necessarilie charge all men that haue such sinnes to be subiect to their binding and loosing Therefore this is a cleare case that in the verie ãâã wordes that the power was deliuered vnto them the bond of obedience was also perscribed
not flowed vnto them Like as they make not the sacrament in vnleauened bread but in leauened 5. di 1. cap. si Therefore that saying of Iames confesse your sinnes one to an other was at the first but of counsel or els is should binde the Greekes notwithstanding the custome That which followeth in the glosse that confession in some case may be made to a laie man which also both Gratian Lumbard doe holde that which Bede writeth of confession of sins to euery man doth prooue that confessio to a priest is not of Christs institution by their iudgement For if it were it ought to be of all euery sin as wel as of those you cal mortall to a priest onelie For if Christ instituted a sacrament in these words whose sins you forgiue c. and ordeined a priest minister thereof by no other meanes but by hearing a sin ners particular confession as you seeme to holde what reason is there that a laie man should be a hearer of confession or an absoluer or that any sin be it neuer so small should not be confessed ALLEN And that is yet more euident by the second parte of Christes sentence where he saith whose sins you do reteine they be reteined The which worde retinere by Saint Hilarie signifieth non soluere or non remittere to reteinis as much as not to loose or not to forgiue Whercupon by Christes expresse wordes it ensueth that whose sinnes the priest doth not forgiue they be not forgiuen and therfore that euerie man beeing guiltie of deadelie sinne in his conscience is subiect to the priests iudgement by the plaine tearmes of Christs owne wordes Mary we must well note that the priest hath in other sacraments and namelie in Baptisme a right in remitting sinnes both originall and actuall but there in the graund pardon of all that is past he is not made a iudge or a corrector because the Church can not practize iudgement or exercise discipline vpon the penitents for any things done before they came iinto the householde and therfore can appoint the party no penance nor punishment nor binde him according to the diuersitie and number of his faultes nor can make search exactlie of all his secres sinnes by him committed that the sentence may proceede according to the parties desertes but onelie vpon his seeking that sacrament to minister it vnto him according to Christs institution whereupon without any sentence of remission giuen by the priest as I absolue thee or such like a pardon generall of all his sinnes committed if he come thether qualified most assuredlie ensueth But now in the other sacrament of penance not onelie pardon of sinnes but punishment for sinnes is put in the Apopostles and priests handes which can not be done without iudiciarie power and exact examination of the penitent because Christ would that if any did greeuouslie sinne after Baptisme he shold as it were be conuented before his iudgement seate in earth in which as in his roome he hath placed the Apostles priests as is alreadie prooued And therefore mens sinnes must in this case be knowne with diuersitie of their kindes and encrease by diuersitie of place time person number and intent For withoout this particular intelligence can neither the appointed iudges of our soules doe iustice nor the penitent receiue iustice for his offences Therefore it is euident that seeing this holie order is authorized not onelie to remit sinnes generallie as in Baptisme but also placed with all power ouer vs as the iudges of our sinnes we must needes by force of Christs institution be driuen to acknowledge and confesse all our sinnes to the Priest so sitting in iudgement vpon the examination of our conscience For no man euer tooke vpon him not in any ciuil causes to determine and giue senteÌce in the matter whereof he hath not by some meanes or other persit and particular instruction and in causes criminall much lesse because the importance of the matter is much more Then in Gods causes and cases of our conscience and in things belonging directlie to mans euerlasting wealth or woe which is the life or death perpctuall of our soules there if either negligence in the iudge in searching out of our sins or consempt in vs in declaration opening confessing or cleare vtterance of them doe hinder the righteousnes of Gods iudgement executed by the Priests office or driuing them to giue wrong sentence of deliuerie and remission there the perill is exceeding great and the daunger wel neare damnation perpetual FVLKE Although to reteine is somewhat more then not to loose or not to forgiue yet the conclusion is true that whose sinnes the minister of the Gospell doth not forgiue of them that heare the Gospell they are not forgiuen But herofit doth not follow that euerie man is bound to shriue himselfe to the priest If you meane that by being subiect to the priests iudgement the minister of the gospell denounceth damnation to all impenitent and obstinate sinners vnto this sentence he is subiect by the plain tearmes of Christs owne wordes that is such a one But if he be truelie penitent in the sight of God he is absolued by the sentence of the minister which pronounceth in the name of God forgiuenes to all them that be truelie conuerted vnto God Wherefore here is no place for the necessitie of auricular confession except you can draw it in by the wordes of demonstratiue syllogismes which I suppose to be impossible and you your selfe shall in conscience confesse no lesse whensoeuer you dare goe about it As touching the difference you shew betwixt the priests office in remitting sins by Baptisme and penance it standeth altogether vpon your owne surmise without any authoritie of the holie scriptures For the minister of the ghospelis made as much a iudge whome to admit and whome to refuse from the sacraments as he is to pronounce whose sins be forgiuen and whose reteined Other iudgement or correction he hath not in the one nor in the other neither is there any punishments put into the Apostles or priests handes for those sinnes that are to be pardoned nor pardon to those that are to be punished The punishment is no lesse then the sentence of eternall damnation vnder which all obstinate and vnrepentant sinners doe remaine so iong as they continue in their obstinacie and impenirencie And therefore the power iudiciarie and exact examination of the penitent and the conuention before Gods iudgement feare in earth which should be the priest is nothing but imaginary vanitie without all ground of authoritie out of Christs institution wherefore except you can prooue that Christ by giuing his Apostles authoritie to sorgiue or reteine sinnes did giue this inordinarie power that you speake of and set vp this iudgement on earth like to the courts in ciuill iudgement in canonicall causes whatsoeuer you saie without warrant of Gods worde is as easily by vs denied as by you it
is affirmed Where you quote Damascene I finde in him nothing for nor any thing sounding that waie in the place by you noted But in the tenth Chapter where he speaketh of eight kindes of baptisme the fifte he maketh Baptisme by the holie ghost and fire Which may be saith he ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã a punishing Baptisme because of the fire to come immediatelie followeth the sixth kinde of baptisme which is verie painfall by repentance and teares So that the one beeing distinct by the author from the other I know not by what learning you doe confound to make it seeme as both were one ALLEN Neither may we thinke that this authoritie and approoued power of priests concerneth onelie the open offences which by witnesse and proofe may be conuinced and deferred to the publike Magistrates of the Church as some Protestantes confounding all places of like wordes and tearmes in scripture doe Wherein they consider not that the perfectnesse of the Gospell teacheth man willinglie to accuse condemne and iudge himselfe that he be not iudged of our Lorde Neither doe they weigh that this iudgement of our sinnes though it be ministred by man is yet the seate and court of Christ to whome it no lesse perteineth to binde and loose our secret sinnes then our open offences And he without exception committed remission of all manner of sinnes vnto the Apostles and priestes saying Like as my father sent me so doe I send you But Christ was sent to heale the contrite and sorowfull of al sinnes priuate and publike therefore al manner of offences be they neuer so secret belong to the priests not onelie pardon but also correction and punishment whereof because they be men they cannot iustlie discerne or determine to remit or reteine giue pardon or giue penance except they be confessed by the parties penitent Christ him selfe perfectlie seeing all diseases both of bodie and soule the inwarde sorow and sute of euerie mans heart yet saied to the sicke man blinde Quid vis faciam ãâã what wouldest thou haue at my hands And shal the priest being a mortall man take vpon him to giue sentence of the diseases of our soules before he knowe them or pardoÌ him that wil not shew vnto him wherein for what sin he asketh a pardoÌ Furthermore the sins of mans cogitation that cannot be discerned by the priest with out the confession of the partie be often no lesse greeuous daÌnable before God then the open offences therefore there may be no doubt but Christ hath ordeined mercie as well for them as other that be actuallie committed and subiect to the sight of the world but yet no otherwise but by the sacrameÌt of penance in which without exception the priests haue power to remit or reteine sinnes as well priuate as publike Therefore the same secret sinnes beeing subiect to the Churches iudgement no lesse then the open they must needes be vttered and confessed or els they cannot be realesed much lesse haue any enioyned penance for them But it is mecre wrangling of our aduersaries in so plaine a case follie in all other to doubt whether secret offences euen committed in thought onelie against the last two commaundements forbiding vnlawfull coueting and desires of the minde be properly subiect to the Priests iudgement seeing they can by no otherwise be released but in the sacrament of penance sincere confession of them For here is practized a iudgement not of ciuile Magistrates which onelie punish by laws of all nations actually committed faultes against the weale publike but of soule and conscience which properly pertaine to the cure of Priestes as they properly occupie Christes owne roome to whose pardon and punishment not onelie open sinnes but also priuate offences either in deede or thought committed doe in like perteine For external penance or publike is rather vsed to satisfie the Church of her right in which sinnes can not openlie be committed but to the great offence of her children and therefore must in her by publike penance be corrected for the example of discipline and prouiso of the like sinnes to come FVLKE I knowe no Protestantes neither I suppose you can name anie writer of them that doth think that the authoritie of sorgiuing and retaining sinnes concerneth onelie open offences and not secret But it maie be that some protestantes haue written as all I think do holde and you your selfe in the end of this section do acknowledge that open confession is most conuenient fot the satisfaction of the Church which is offended where and by whome open and notorious sinnes haue beene committed But that secret confession made to a priest is necessarie for the discharge of secret sinnes all Protestants denie neither can anie Papistes prooue it For such reasons as you bring are verie weake and friuolous The perfectnes of the Gospell teacheth man willinglie to accuse condemne and iudge himselfe that he be not iudged of our Lord Ergo he is bound to shriue him-selfe to a Priest Nay contrariewise if he be made accuser condemner and iudge of himselfe he neede not seeke anie other externall iudge but in his owne conscience accuse examine condemne and iudge him-selfe before God And this court of conscience we acknowledge to be the seat and court of Christ where no priest or other mortal man hath authoritie to sit and iudge Neither doth anie correction punishment of our sins belong to priestes by reason that Christ sent the Apostles and their successours to Preach as he was sent by his father but they may remit or retaine sinnes without hearing the particuler confession of euerie sinner by declaring the mercie of God to all that repent and his iustice to all that continue in sinne without repentance But it is a maruetlous strong argument Iweene to prooue the necessitie of confession because our sauiour Christ caused the blinde man by vttering his request in particuler to declare his faith Nay if he had caused all them whose sinnes he pronounced to be forgiuen first to make particuler confession vnto him it had beene more coloure and yet no sufficient argument to prooue the necessity of confession to be made vnto other men much lesse that he would haue the blind maÌ acknowledge that he beleeued that he was able to giue him sight wherfore vpon a Principle shamefully begged that confession to a priest is necessary you go about to proue that confessioÌ of secret faults and cogitations of mans heart is also to be made to a priest you accuse your aduersaries of wrangling in so plaine a case and all men of follie that doubt whether such secret offences be subiect to the Priestes iudgement seeing they can not otherwise be released but in the sacrament of penance and sincere confession of them but which of your aduersaries will graunt that they can not otherwise be released or how will you satisfie them that doubt out of the holie scriptures of the institution of
euen in that sermon you quote requiring confession of secret faultes to be made onelie to God and not to men Sed confunderis erubescis peccata tua effari Atqui oportebat maximè apud homines ea dicere inuulgare Confusio enim est peccare non est confusio confiteri peccata nunc autem neque necessariùm presentibus testibus confusio confiteri Cogitatione fiat delictorum exquisitio absque teste sit hoc iudicium Solus te Deus confitentem videat Deus qui non exprobat peccata tua sed soluit peccata propter confusionem Nunquid sic grauaris retrocedis verùm ego scio quòd conscientia non sustinet sua delicta But thou art ashamed and abashed to vtter thy sinnes Yet thou oughtest moste of all to declare and publish them before men For it is ashame to sinne it is no shame to confesse thy sinnes But now it is neither necessarie to confesse in the presence of witnesses Let examination of thine offences be made in thought let this iudgement be without a witnesse let god only see thee making thy confession god which casteth not thy sinnes in thy teeth but too seth thy sinnes for thy shame what and arte thou greeued to doe so much and goest backe yet I know shy conscience caÌnot abide her owne offences These wordes a man would thinke should be plaine enough against the necessitie of auricular confession but that you haue found out a moste impudent interpretation of them to saie that by confessing to God he meaneth the close consistory of the priests iudgement who occupieth the seate of God and of this exposition the Master of the sentences should be author other schoolemen should be approouers Verelie whosoeuer inuented it or whosoeuer haue alowed it Chrysostome crieth out plainly that it is not his meaning which requireth the examination to be in thought alone and the iudgement without witnes which cannot be if the priest doe heare it And although he count it greater perfection to make open confession before men yet he denieth it to be necessarie Again in his commentarie vpon the Epistle to the Hebrews Cap. 12. Hom. 30. more plainlie after he hath exhorted men to count all their sinnes seuerally before God and to make an hartie confession of our vnworthines he addeth Non ãâã tibi vt te prodas in publicum neque vt te a pud alios accuses sed obedire te volo Prophetae dicenti reuela domino taunt viam Ante Deum ergo confitere peccata apud verum iudicem cum oratione delicta tua pronuncia non lingua sed conscientiae tuae memoria tunc demum spera misericordiam te posse consequt sihabueris in mente peccata tua contiuuò nunquam malum aduersus proximum in corde retinebis I say not to thee that thou oughtest to bewraie thy selfe abroad nor that thou shouldest accuse thy selfe before other men But I will haue thee obey the Prophet saying open thy wait before the Lorde Confesse thy sinnes therefore before God prononnce thy offences before the true iudge with praier not with thy tongue but with rememberance of thy conscience and then hope that thou maist obteine mercie if thou shalt haue thy sinnes in minde continuallie thou shalt neuer reieine euill in thy heart against thy neighbour We must confesse our selues before the consistorie of that true iudge where we neede not to pronounce with our tongue but in our constience our sinfull state which is not the close consistorie of popish shrift where without the tongue the priest can know nothing Yet again the same Doctor vpon the 50. Psal. Hom. 2. writeth moste plainlie Pecoata tua dictio vt deleas illa si confunderis elicui dicere quia peccasti dicito eaquotide in anima tuas non dico vt confiter ãâã seruo tuo vt exprobret dicito deo qui curateoe Haec enim si non dixeris ignorat ea Deus nunquid à te vultea ãâã Cùm faciehas ea practo erat cùm admitteres ãâã are non erubuisti confiteri erubescis dicito in ãâã vs in illa requiem habeas dicito ingemiscens lachrimans Declare thy sinnes that thou maiest ãâã them out if thou be ashamed to declare to any that thou hast sinned declare them dailie in thine owne soule I doe not saie that thou oughtest to confesse them to thy fellow seruent that he may cast thee in the teeth declare them to God which doth heale them For if thou shalt not declare them is God ignorant of them Or would he know them by thee when thou didest them he was present when thou didest commit them he knew Thou waste not ashamed to sinne and art thou ashamed to confesse declare thy sinnes in this life that thou maist haue rest in that life declare them groning and weeping With what conscience could the Master of the sentences first or any man after him wrest these words of Chrysostome to so contrarie a meaning But what durst they not doe which had giuen ouer them selues whollie to mainteine the corrupt customes of the Romish Church how concrarie soeuer they were either to the holie scriptures or to the testimonies of the auncient Doctors But you haue an inuincible argument to prooue plainlie that his onelie purpose was to bring men to confession and penance sacramentall you meane to Popish shrift For there he chargeth them saie you that they did not wcepe nor lament nor confesse their sinnes which he could not doe rightlie if those thinges were onelie inwardlie in cogitation and heart to be done For how could he knowthat they did not make confession Yes Master Allen beeing their pastour and ouerseer of their soules he might know by their outward sinfull and carelesse conuersation that they did not weepe nor lament nor confesse their sinnes before God For if they did dailie examine themselues as he chargeth them they would not haue bene so loose in life as they were and therefore you haue not so much as obscurelie prooued your purpose lest of al that it was Chrysostomes onelie purpose to driue his people to shrift which if it had beene a necessarie institution of Christ as you holde he would not haue beene so daintie for any offence of the weake as you make him to cal men vnto it vpon necessitie of saluation He that feared not openlie to reprehend the Empresse would he haue beene afraide of the peoples displeasure No no Master Allen Gods institution necessarie to saluation maie not be concealed though heauen and earth should runne together about the publishing thereof ALLEN But whosoeuer list see the moste assured and vndoubted meaning of this holie Father touching confession to apriest whereon I stand the longer because our aduersaries would picke quarells with Gods Church vpon certeine particles of his sentence let him read the second and third booke of the dignitie of priesthoode where he doth not onelie attribute more dignitie to that order then
such an impudent brag set vpon so false a matter wherein he seeth neither Christs institution by his word nor the example of antiquitie by anie credible report nor practise of any Christian people by any necessary ground nor ãâã by learned witnes nor reason by necessarie conclusions to vphold and maintaine it let him schoole his conscience according to the holie scriptures and nothing be mooued with the vaine glosing of such shameles boasters ALLEN For if vpon consideration of this practise so approoued by all meanes possible he can not charge him selfe with obedience to the trueth and the exercise of that in his lise and workes which he seeth to be moste sure and certaine as well by the Churches vsage as Gods owne writing and will moe words will not weigh with him nor the persuasion of man shall euer much mooue him to that which the continuall terrour of conscience alwaies acknowledging that truth in minde the practise wherof in outward fact he abhorreth can not effectualliie force him vnto Hard it seemeth I knowe to the wordlinges and to the weake and so hard that neuer man could haue brought it into the Church much lesse to haue continued it so long if it had not proceeded from the precept of Christes owne mouth to open the whole heart and minde to man And it can not but be ioyned with some naturall bashfullnes in this our frailtie to vtter that to an other which in it selfe of what sort of sinne so euer it be is moste filthie and lothsome But knowing and feeling vndoubtedlie that the continuall close keeping thereof in the court of our conscience is much more great and greeuose torment and therwith concerning Christes ordinance to be such that no consideration of our imbecillitle nor contrarie liking of our phantasie maie or ought to withdrawe vs from that thing which for vs all is accounttd moste conuenient and necessarie let vs neuer by our disobedient willes striue against Gods wisedome FVLKE When you can shewe Gods owne writing and will out of the same that popish shriftis so necessarie all good consciences will runne as faste vnto it as now they despise and abhorre it Such confession as the holie writinges of God doe require all Christians wil be readie to make But that confession of all our mortall sinnes as you tearme them is of necessitie to be made to any man we finde no scripture that doth charge our conscience with it And where you saie that no earthly power could haue established or begun any such burthenous thing as shrift is I agree with you yet it followeth not that the force of Christes institution hath driuen the worlde thereunto For the subtiltie of the Deuill hath more preuailed to deceiue the mindes of ignorant men then any earthlie power against knowledge could haue preuailed Yea God himselfe hath sent the efficacy of error into the worlde that Antichrist then whose tiranie nothing is more burthenous might preuaile to the deceiuing of the reprobate for punishment of their ãâã which haue not embraced the knowledge of the trueth to their saluation that they might beleeue lies to their condemnation Wherefore let no man maruell that Antichrist hath laied so many so heauie and intollerable burthens vpon mens consciences which no earthlie power could bring to passe for his comming is foreshewed to be according to the effectuall workeing of Satan in all power and signes and wonders of lies and in all deceitfullnes of vnrighteousnes in them that perish Neither let any man be blinded with this foolish Sophistrie and inconsequence of Allen Neuer any earthlie power could haue established or begunne anie such burthenous thing as Popish shrift is therefore it hath the force of Christes constitution and ordinances whereof there can no worde be brought out of the hol e scriptures ALLEN If the hurthen therefore of confession seeme to any man intollerable as in deede it is not but verie pleasant to all such as haue tasted how sweete Christ is let him ease it with earnest consideration that it is exceeding commodious to breake the pride of mans heart and to make him know himselfe And if that any burthen of shamefastenesse appeare in the vttering of his sinnes he may learne to take it gladlie as some worthie paine for his offences and some peece of recompence and satistisfaction for the same It pleased God at the first fall of our fathers to ioyne shame and confusion to sinne by which they were bashefull at the voice of God and of their owne nakednes Seeing that of his infinit wisedome it pleased him to make it the first punishment for sinne and to laie it vpon his owne sonnes moste innocent person in his contemptible death and manifolde rebukes suffered for our sinnes and sakes let vs not disdaine to beare some portion thereof in this sacrament of confession for the release of our sinnes That shamefastenes so much abhorred and so much respected shall often preserue man from further offending whereof he knoweth after he must againe so soone before God and his minister be rebuked FVLKE To all wise and Godlie men the burthen of Popish confession seemeth not onely intollerable but also impossible But to foolish hypocrites that would gladlie fall to a composition for their sinnes it seemeth easie enough especiallie since euerie man for a litle monie may choose his confessour according to his owne conceite into whose lappe he may vomit out the burthen of his seared conscience and be assured of absolution toties quoties Neither is pride much abated nor shame greatly regarded where one simple obnoxius person is made priuie of a mans faulte who also as it is holden is bounde to conceale the same for euer Neither were all the shame of the worlde sufficient to make satisfaction for the least of our sinnes which deserue eternall confusion paines for which the sonne of God and none but he was able to satisfie by temporall paine and shame much lesse the shame of confession before one priest and he commonlie an ignorant contemptible asse may be any peece of recompence and satisfaction for all our sinnes confessed to him Iesus Christ the righteous is the propitiation for our sinnes and his bloode purgeth vs from all our sinnes and therfore your Popish confession with this opinion of some peece of recompence satisfaction for our sinnes is iustlie abhorred of all true Christians who know that what peece soeuer of recompence or satisfaction for sinnes be ascribed to any other thing so much is detracted from the glorie of Christes redemption and the inestimable price of his bloode As for the preferuatiue from sinne that you imagine shrift should be is but a foolish fantasie for he that neuer feareth not shamerh to fall so often in the sight of the righteous God will haue but a small regarde to bewraie the same to sinnefull man ALLEN But what should we talke of sosmall a let where the comfort of opening our sores woundes to
man that by nature is a like sinner and by vse of hearing manie faultes can not much maruell at oures and by office there is moste secret and carefull ouer vs what should we talke of other impediments where this comfortable motion is so great What comforte can be more then to haue such a friende who for that I ioyne with him yea euen mine owne soule to his after the dearest manner and moste secret sorte must needes be to me a full staie of conscience a witnesse of my sorowfull heart an intercessour for my sinnes a suretie before God for my amending a minister in my reconciliation and one that vnder Christ as Saint Clement also saith shall both beare my sinnes vpon himselfe and take charge of me to saluation in which case me thinke surelie man is after a sorte set in maruelous quietnes and almost discharged euen of himselfe and his owne custodie whiles he giueth ouer his owne aduise and iudgement and whollie hangeth in earth vpon him whome God hath appointed to be his pastour and gouernour of his soule Therefore good reader call vpon Christ for encrease of faith and beleeue onelie this ordinance of God was of infinite wisedome and high prouidence prouided for thy sake and it can not be burdenous vnto thee Christ shal giue thee courage and heart to withstand the contrary temptations and to serue him though thou forsake thy selfe To vs therefore confusion of face for our sinnefull life and to him honour and glorie euerlasting Amen FVLKE You doe well to confesse that shame is but small ales where a man is brought into a fooles paradise of so easie remission of his sinnes for so light a confession before one man as sinfull and perhaps more sinfull then he and bounde as you saie by office to secrecie But the comforte you speake of is vaine and miserable though all confessors were learned and able to giue good counsel as not one among an hundereth of your hedge Priests fryers are For how can he be a suretie before God for an other mans amending when he cannot be surety for his owne reformation He may well beare other mens sinnes vpon himselfe and take charge of other mens saluation to his owne damnation when he preacheth not Christ the onely propitiation for our sinnes but will so be a minister of reconciliation that he will robbe Christ of his glorie and the people of their saluation In which case in deede you set men in a maruelous and mischeuous securitie and almoste discharge them euen of themselues as youre owne wordes are and of their owne custodie while you make them giue ouer their owne aduise and iudgement and wholly to hang in earth vpon you not vpon Christ whome God hath appointed to be the Pastour and gouernour of their soules euen ypon earth though he be in heauen and they vpon the earth Therefore good reader marke how blaspemoussie these Popish dogges would haue thee to hang thy selfe whollie vpon them in earth as the onelie Pastours and gouernours of their soules by which they exclude Christ altogether from any feeding or gouerning of our soules vpon earth and debar all Christians not onelie from depending whollie vpon Christ as they might and doe but from hanging any thing at all vpon him in earth seeing they will haue men to hang wholly vpon their coÌfessor on earth as though god had made any such pastors gouernours of mens soules as should put Christ out of office challenge the whole trust of mens saluation vnto themselues These be the right lims of Antichrist that chalenge the chiefe honour of God vnto themselues which is faith and hope of saluation to be reposed on them for what other thing is it that a man should quiet him selfe by be discharged of himselfe his owne custodie and wholy hang vpon his gostlie Father but to beleeue in him to put his whole faith hope confidence of saluation onelie vpon him while he is vpon earth And for this matter he is content to accept onelie faith because he hath no other argument to perswade thee but remember that faith commeth by hearing of the worde of God which abhorreth and accurseth al confidence reposed in man And therfore confusion of face be to al blasphemous papists not onelie for their sinnefull life but also for their abhominable heresies and to god be al glorie honour and dominion in Christ Iesus our Lord for euer euer Amen THE SECOND PARTE OF THE TREATISE CONCERning the Popes pardons The author by iust causes was mooued to beleeue the trueth of this doctrine of Pardons before he knew the meaning of them and afterward found them of greater importance then he toke them before to be THE FIRST CHAP. ALLEN OF the high power of remission and pardoning of sinnes giuen by Christ to his onelie spouse the Church in the Church in the persons of her holy Bishops and priests as a thing annexed to the wholl order and to be exercised in the sacrament of penance vpon all men that be of their seuerall iurisdictions and humblie shall submit themselues by confession of their faultes to their iudgements I haue alreadie spoken so much as may suffice for the satisfying of the sober and iust reproofe of the contentious And now because as well the course of my former matter as the speciall neede of these daies driueth me thereunto I will make further search and triall of the right of that challenge which as well the high priest as other principall Pastours and Bishops make by the force of their Prelacie and keye of iurisdiction ouer and aboue the power of orders touching Pardons and Indulgences Whereof whiles I doe intreate the more attention and heede I require of thee gentle reader because here all the lamentable tragedie and toile of this time first did begin and here haue al those that perished in the late contradiction of Core principallie fallen And in no article of Christian faith euer more offence hath bin receiued of all sortes almoste euen of the wise then in this one of the Popes pardons FVLKE WHen you haue heard what were these iust causes which he pretendeth you shall plainlie see that the authors faith was not grounded vpon Gods word but vpon humane presumption and therefore deserueth to be called rather a fansie then a faith Likewise when you shall haue read ouer the whol treatise to the ende you shall perceiue though you read no confutation that he hath not any warrant either out of the holie scriptures or out of the auncient fathers for any Popes pardons such as he should take vpon him to defende For that the Church of God and pastours therof haue power to release them that are bounde and vpon perswasion of their repentance to remit or pardon some part of the triall appointed for them it is no question betweene vs but of the popes pardons graunted vnder his Leaden Bulls for remission of sinnes but a poena culpa
but much be confirmed in my faith thereby And yet all this while though the matter of pardons seemed to me to be more and more sound in it selfe and as true as the Spirit of God is true who was the author thereof in the Church yet I did not then consider of it as a thing of anie great importance but I conceiued it to be a small matter subiect to a certaine iugling in reason such as wicked men lightlie make their close and craftie entrance by to more mischiefe and further attemptes against the common faith of the Church I could not then conceiue which I after ward so plainlie and now more and more by the better surueie of the cause do perceiue that in this one falsehood there was couertlie conteined the verie pith of falsehood and improofe of the greatest matters which life and faith doth stand vpon FVLKE Your first motiues to this faith of yours were not more feeble then your confutations in the same were fond and foolish You did reade the storie of the alteration in religion that hath fallen in our time But of whose writing I praie you euen of such as were proctors for the Popes pedlarie ware or pillers of his pretensed power which was none other but according to the prouerb before mentioned aske my fellow if I be a thiefe If you had read the storie written indifferentlie without partialitie to either partie you might haue iudged better of the wholle matter Some perhapes are liuing that can testifie of the things that were done publike monuments are extant totestifie the same so much more intollerable is your arrogancie to iudge vpon the onelie sinister report of the aduersaries of Luther of holie and blessed memorie with all true Christians that onelie contention and couetousnes mooued him to condemne that which himselfe in conscience knew to be true and lawfull Like boldnes you shew in affirming that Luther was the first in all mans memorie sauing one ãâã that despised pardons forgetting the Waldenses that were long before Wiclefe and the Bohemians that were after him before Luther who condemned popish pardons as much as Wiclife or Luther For they condemned the Pope to be Antichrist as much as these did But now let vs examine the storie as it is knowne to be moste true in Saxonie where Luther first found fault with pardons When Pope Leo. 10. had sent abroad his pardons which were preached by Terelius a Dominike frier in such impudent manner that they seemed to serue for no end but the Popes couetousnes and the licentiousnes of the people Luther at that time hauing a zeale of God but not according to knowledge did mildelie and modestlie admonish the people of the deceites and abuses of pardons and pardoners which long before his time were reprooued in the Councells of Latrean and Vienna he complained to the Archbishoppe of Ments to the Bishop of Branderburg to the prouinciall of the Augustine friers and to the Pope him selfe in all thinges submitting him selfe to the Pope and Church of Rome so it were not against the holie scriptures When he could finde no equity nor redresse of these abuses which euen Surius the papist confesseth to haue bene iustlie complained of by him and vniustlie manteined or dissembled by the prelates he proceeded farther as God gaue him knowledge and at length compelled by intollerable iniurie and neglect of manifest trueth and reformation of lise did cast of the Anrichristian yoke of the Popes obedience Now whereas you charge him with contention and couetousnes the world your iudge before maie gather whether Luther if against his conscience he would haue set forth the Popes pardons especiallie at such time as the Pope had great neede of monie for warre against the Turkes might not haue made a more easie waie for him selfe to honour and ri hes then by setting himselfe against them But howsoeuer it was your fault faith was thus confirmed and that to such blasphemous boldnes that without authoritie of the holie scriptures the matter of pardons seemed to you as true as the spirit of God is true and hauing none other arguments to perswade you but that Papistes called them selues the Catholike Church and condemned Luther of manie heresies and write in their stories that Luther was mooued by contention and couetousnes to oppose him selfe against them you nothing doubted but that the spirit of God was author of popes pardons in the Church Beeing now resolued of the substance you were not yet perswaded of the quantitie but thinkeing the matter at the first was but small at length you came to a perfect knowledge how great and weightie it is and how it draweth with it all other waight in so much that the verie pith of the greatest matters of popish life and faith doe stand vpon it If then the pith of the greatest matters of poperie doe stand in Popes pardons and this pith hath no ground either in the scriptures or the fathers of the Church for a thousand yeares after Christ we maie the more easily see that the plant of poperie whereof pardons is the pith is not of Gods owne planting and therefore shal be plucked vp by the rootes ALLEN Thou wouldest not thinke I dare saie into what a summe and abridgment heresie hath by the Deuilles deuise and Luthers seruice drawne her selfe into For by this one false conclusion and for maintenance thereof this man and his posteritie haue taken awaie all penance and satisfaction for sinne haue spoiled the Church of her iust and and moste necessarie discipline controlled Gods owne holie vsage incorrection of his children haue entered into his secrets of the next world and there abandoned the place of his iustice and iudgement for sinnes that be remitted but not enough to his wisdome and will corrected haue robbed the holie Saints of all their merites that is to saie Christ of his giftes and grace whereby onelie they besosoneraigne and satisfactorie haue imbarred the bodie mysticall of Christ of the benefit which the wholl and euerie member thereof should receiue by the satisfaction and holie workes of the common head which is Christ haue broken the communion of Saints and the sweet felowship of all the holie members of Gods Church and the benefit which riseth frometh to other by mutuall participation of their good works and desertes and to be short haue by this one falsehood preached against pardons done iniurie to Christ to his Church to his Saints and to his sacraments and haue mightelie shaken the whole frame of Christian religion and doctrine I doe not here riot in wordes to ouerrunne my aduersaries in talke or to make more of the matter then it is but assuredlie without destruction of all these so necessarie articles of our faith there can no man defend Luthers doctrine against Indulgences I knowe he fumbled at the beginning otherwise then his fellowes and followers to disgrace the same sometimes by holding the pardons to be lawfull but not
profitable other whiles to be deceites but yet inuented for holie purposes now by avouching they could not stand with Gods iustice if they shoulde remitte anie part of the appointed paine for sinnes and else when that there was no paine for remitted sinnes at all whereupon the indulgences should not be needfull but vaine and friuolous with such other inconstant stammering as lightlie is common to them that seeke to vp hold falshood against their owne skill and consciences But his followers as well of the Protestants as Zuinglians and Caluinistes to make the waie of wickednes more easie and plaine haue boldlie denied all penance and temporall paine for sinne remitted whether it be by Christs or the Churches enioyning haue taken awaie Purgatorie haue bereued Priesthood of all power and the Church of all her treasure of Christes copious and abundant redemption Whereupon I cannot otherwise iudge but that doctrine which else can not be refelled but by the waste of so manie vndoubted articles should stande exceeding fast and be grounded moste surelie vpon all these foresaide truthes without the destruction whereof it can not be of anie force ouerturned FVLKE As no man would thinke any such matter if you had not put it in their heades so no wise men can thinke otherwise of Pardons then he did before you tooke in hande their defence sauing that all reasonable men may thinke them so much the worsse because you are able to defend them no better And if all the principles of popery as you saie be contained in the matter of pardons as in a summe or abridgment the children of God maie behold the prouidence of god more clearelie in setting Luther first against them at such time as he knewe no such matter neither had anie purpose but to disswade the moste grosse abuses and palpable impostures which were that time mantained about them alowing the pardons still as good and lawful But for the mantainers of this conclusion you say he and his haue taken awaie all penance and satisfaction for sinne c. Naie they haue established and restored the true vse of repentance and shewed that the death of Christ is the onelie satisfaction for sinnes the discipline of the Church from a batbarous antichristian tyrannie they haue reduced within the limmites of the scriptures and the practize of the primatiue and pureit age of the Church the chastising that God vseth for correction of his children they haue taught out of the scriptures how it is to be taken patientlie as an admonition for amendement not an amends for our misdoing which sauoreth as much of pride as their doctrine doth of humility The secrets of the next world not reueiled in the scriptures they leaue vntil the time of the general reuelation of al secrets and therfore they presume not to allow purgatorie paines for the clensing of those sinnes which the scripture teacheth to be purged by the bloode of Christ in whome all our sinnes are thorowlie punished to the full satisfaction of the iustice and wisedome of God They haue left to the saints al their merits which is nothing els but the grace of God sufficient for their saluation not placing the workes of saints in the place of Christes passion which is onelie of it selfe soueraigne and satisfactorie for all men The mysticall bodie of Christ and the holie coÌmunion of saints they beleeue to receiue all vertue and power of life from Christ the head and euery member to exercise that office which by his grace is assigned vnto it therefore they haue done no iniurie to Christ his Church his saints sacraments or his holy Religion but their dutie in purging the doctrine ofChrist his Church his saints sacraments and Religion from error falsehood heresie and blasphemie You tell the reader that you doe not riot in wordes to ouerrunne your aduersarie but if he be wise he will remeÌber that a crafty orator doth sonest deceiue when he pretendeth moste plainenes What Luther thought and taught at the first of pardons his writings are extant in print to declare in which he confesseth that he did fight in the darke yet it pleased God by the importunitie of his aduersaries to sturre him vp to search the trueth out of the holie scriptures Neither hath Zuinglius or Caluine or anie of the Protestants taught otherwise of repentance satisfaction power of priesthood or the tresure of the Church then Luther did after God had reueiled the trueth vnto him and he openlie preached the same Seeing therefore the matter of pardons cannot stand but vpon the blasphemous heresies which the popish antichristian Church doth teach against the glorie of the onelie redemption of Iesus Christ our onelie and whole sauiour and reedemer it must needs be one of those pestilent poisons which Sathan after his loosing out of the bottomeles pit hath powred forth into the world the defacing of the glorie of Christ and the destruction of manie ignorant soules ALLEN Therefore least any man by making smaller accompt of so litle a braunch of the Churches faith then he should do fall further vnto the mistrusting of other many of knowen importance I thought it good to debate the question of Indulgences which be now commonly called the Popes Pardons though not onely he but also other Prelates of Christendome haue their seuerall right eche one according to the measure of the Churches graunt and his iurisdiction therein In which matter because most men of smaler trauail haue erred rather by misconstruing the case mistaking the state of the cause then for any lacke of sufficient proofe of the matter after it were wel vnderstanded I will studie first clearly to open the meaning of that whereon we stande and then to go through the whole question with as much light and breuitie as I can tempering my selfe as much as I maie from all such ãâã as the depth of so grounded a conclusion and the learned disputation of Schoolmen might driue me vnto Wherein I am content rather to followe the desire and contentation of the reader then to satisfie my owne appetite which I feele in my selfe to be somewhat more greedie of matter sometimes then the common people whome I studie moste to helpe can well beare and yet if they thinke it anie vantage to knowe trueth and the necessarie Doctrine of their faith they must learne to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of the cause and further I shall not charge them FVLKE You come to late after the vanitie treacherie and blasphemie of pardons hath beene so long set abroad and knowen to the world and bringing no better stuffe then you do to suppose that you shal be able to restore pardons into the auncient credit they had within these foure score yeares euen with the simplest papist in Europe You would make the matter more plausible by communicating the right of pardons to all prelates of christendome as wel as to the Pope whereas indeed your popish Church keeping no proportion aloweth none
from part of his sinne and bound in the other part but he that forgiueth the guilt and faulte of sinne which the Prophet calleth iniquitatem peccati he releaseth no daies or yeares but he forgiueth the verie fault it selfe Neither is there any eternall punishment which can be eased by any number of daies were they neuer so many Take you from an infinite and endlesse thing how much you list and it shal be eternall still Then it is onelie temporal punishment which before God and the world is limited by certaine proportion of the wickednes committed and of that satisfaction which gods iustice requireth at the partie penitent which can be released by daies or yeares in part or in whol And therefore the Popes or Bishops Pardons onelie forgiue temporall punishment enioyned or at the left due for answere of Gods righteousnes to be enioyned Wherein also the Magistrates of the Church haue such care and consideration that they remit not so much as any one daie of enioyned penance or deserued punishment but by recompence of the lacke of mans satisfying with some portion of Christes abundant desertes applied by the vse of their keies to the reliefe of such as doe lacke and for their zeale and deuotion are not worthie to receiue benefit by the singular treasure of the common wealth to helpe them in their priuate neede But for this matter looke for more toward the end of the booke FVLKE This first reason is verie feeble some pardons haue this clause de poenitentys iniunctis of penance inioyned therfore in al other pardons in which is expresse mention not onelie of penance inioyned but also of pardoning of sins either al or some part of them the temporall punishment onely is meant to be pardoned The second reason is as good Sinne is vndiuisible and so is the punishment for sinne and eternall therefore it is onelie temporall punishment which is released by daies and yeares But what saie you then to moste full pardons of all sinne and all punishments where there is no limitation of daies nor yeares what saie you to the release of the third part or the seuenth part of all sinnes beside many thousand yeares of punishment remitted as I haue shewed before in the Pardons of Alexander the fourth confirmed by Pope Leo the tenth within these eightie yeares The third argument is that the magistrates of the Church remit not so much as one daie of punishment due to Gods iustice for sinne but by recompensing the want of mans satisfaction with some portion of Christs abundant desertes applied by the vse of the keies c. But what intollerable blasphemie is this to applie the merites of Christ but onelie in defaulte of mans satisfaction whose bloode is the onelie purgation of our sinnes whose righteousnes is the wholl propitiation for our iniquities whose redemption by his death purchased is eternall for all them that are sanctified Againe what an horrible blasphemie is it to make a marchandise of the merites of Christ our sauiour as the Pope doth in the saile of his pardons And finallie what scripture giueth anie dispensation of Christes merites vnto anie mortall man and lest of all to the Pope the man of sin if it be lawful thus to imagine implie applie forge and faine without al ground of the holie scriptures religion shal be nothing but as it pleaseth men to make it as it is plaine in the Popish synagogue ALLEN And now vpon the fore said declaration let this be as it were agreed vpon and let the aduersaries well vnderstand this to be the meaning of the Catholike Church that an Indulgence or pardon is nothing els but a remission in parte or in whole of the bond of that punishment which is enioyned or deserued after the mortall sinnes be remitted Gods iustice being otherwise for the said sinnes recompensed by the common treasure of Christ and his Saints satisfaction which is applied vnto the parties vse by the keis of iurisdiction graunted to such as Christ made the Stewards of his household the disposers of his mysteries For the Church of God and her Pastours though they be mercifull inclining to remission rather then rigour yet they take not vpon them neither in the sacrament of penance to remit sinne and damnation neither out of the sacrament to release anie paine or parte of punishment enioyned without recompence thereof by Christes copious redemption and the communion of holie workes that is betwixt the head and members of this mysticali bodie of Christ. FVLKE So often as you repeat this vntrueth so often it must be tolde you that it is false that the popes pardon by the meaning of the giuer and receiuers is nothing els but a remission of punishment enioyned or deserued after mortall sinnes be remitted when it is expressed in the same that it is either for all sinnes at well as paines or els for some parte of the sinnes as well as some part of the vaines except you will accuse the Pope of manifest falsehoode and cosonage to promise that which he meaneth not to giue and wotteth well is not in his power to giue Againe where you saie that Gods iustice is otherwise recompensed we know his iustice is throughlie satisfied by the obedience and suffering of Christ as wel for al our sinnes as for the punishment due for the same therefore your Popes pardons are needles where God forgiueth our sinnes iustifieth vs freely for Christes sake But where you ioyne the satisfaction of saints vnto the common treasure of Christ it is exceeding blasphemous against the sufficiency of his satisfaction and the grace of Gods free iustification For all haue sinned and are destitute of the glorie of God beeing freelie iustisied by his grace through the redemption which is in Christ Iesus whome God hath set forth to be a propitiation by saith in his blood But admit all these lies and blasphemies hetherto aduouched were graunted who gaue the Pope authoritie to applie the same by the key of iurisdiction How prooue you the key of iurisdiction to extend so farre For the keies of the kingdome of heauen whatsoeuer they are be committed to the wholl Church and not to one person onelie as Cyprian Augustine Chrysostome Ierome and all the auncient Doctors agreablie to the scriptures do confesse And God hath made all the Pastors of the Church stewardes of his household and dispensers of his mysteries And if euerie Pastour ouer his charge be a steward and dispenser of Gods mysteries as you seem to graunt why hath he not authoritie to release the penance by him-selfe inioyned or the punishment due for sinne remitted as well as the Bishop or the Pope Why hath he not the key of iurisdiction ouer his parish in as large and ample manner as the Bishop hath ouer his dioces or the Pope ouer all men seeing the keies are not giuen to one but to the vnitie as the auncient fathers teach Whie should the Bishop
and the Pope haue two keies and they but one resolue vs these matters out of the holie scripture and you shall come somewhat nearer your purpose of pardons As for the communion of holie works which is betweene the heade and the members if you meane thereby the workes of men ioyned with the satisfaction or merites of Christ either shew vs where it is taught in the scriptures or giue vs le aue to denie it vntill you can prooue it ALLEN Perchaunce some Protestant will here call vs back and require proofe that there should be anie paine or tempor all correction remaining for those persons which hauetheir sinnes forgiuen by God in the sacrament of Penance or otherwise by the onelie faith of the partie penitent as he maie perhaps surmise If he list to be satisfied in this case let him turne backe and make a short view of the works of God since the beginning and there consider well whether God him-selfe hath not commonlie visited his children receiued to mercie with some correction answerable in respect of his iustice to the greeuousnes of the crime forgiuen Who is so froward or so rude but he may well discerne betwixt the sault of our first Father and the punishment of euerlasting damnation deserued thereby His sinne was one thing his deserued punishment an other thing his sinne was disobedience his punishment correspondent to that was euerlasting death Yet whensoeuer one of these two is forgiuen the other must needes be forgiuen also because he can neither be subiect to damnation whose sinne for which damnation was ordeined is forgiuen neither his fault be forgotten whose euerlasting punishing is pardoned which is the rewarde of sinne But now both these being once through Christ remitted to Adam as we read in the booke of wisedome who perceiueth not that he was for all that long afterward subiect to temporall death and manie other miseries both of this life and of the next beeing onelie punishments appointed by God for the ful satisfying euen of those sinnes which were forgiuen him FVLKE Out of all peraduenture we require proofe not onelie of this point but of manie more positions which you haue barelie affirmed to build your popish pardons vpon them And touching this point we do require proofe not onely that after sinnes and eternal paines remitted there are temporall paines remaining to satisfie Gods iustice but also if there were anie such remaining by what authoritie you should release them I know that often times after sinne remitted God sendeth or suffereth a temporal paine to remaine but that is not for satisfaction of his iustice but for a mercifull chastisement of his fatherlie discipline The punishment due to Gods iustice is eternall damnation for euery sinne as euen the glosse vpon the Extrauagant of Boneface the eight doth acknowledge And when God doth freelie remit the sinne he doth as freelie remit the punishment due for the same For what remaineth to be punished when the sinne is remitted Temporall paines therefore satisfie not his iustice but admonish his children of their ductie and make them carefull not to commit sinne which by his chastisment they are put in minde to be displeasing vnto him The temporall death and miseries that Adam was subiect vnto through his disobedience remained in him and his posteritie not as a satisfaction of Gods iustice for his sinne remitted and satisfied by Christ but as a monument and example of his iustice for sinne and therefore they remaine not onelie in the elect but in the reprobate for an admonition to beware of sinne vnto the Godlie and to take excuse awaie from the wicked of ignorance of Gods punishment for sinne yet are all those punishments vnto the Godie turned into blessings being either made his fatherlie chastisments for their amendment or els occasions of their eternall ãâã as aduersitie by humbling of them death by deliuering them into the possession of eternall life and therefore is blessednes pronounced both of the one and of the other But that Adam was subiect to anie miseries after this life or in this life as being onelie punishments appointed by God for the ãâã satisfying euen of those sinnes which were forgiuen him we denie vtterlie For the obedience of Christ was ãâã full satisfaction for the disobedience of Adam both for him and all Gods elect ofhis posteritie For if by the transgression of one manie haue died much more the grace of God and the free gift in grace which is of one man Iesus Christ hath abounded vnto manie For if through the transgression of one death hath raigned by one much more they which receaue the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousnes shall raigne in life by one Iesus Christ. For as by the disobedience of one man manie were made sinners so by the obidience of one man manie shall be made iust This and much more hath the Apostle to prooue that the redemption of Christ was more bountifull toward them which are iustified thorough faith then the transgression of Adam was rigorous to their condemnation which could not be if anie parte of Gods iustice remained to be satisfied by the punishment of the partie after his sinnes were remitted and he made iust by the redemption and iustification of Christ. Therefore the temporall paines whereto Gods children are subiect after their sinnes remitted are not left for the satisfiing of the iustice of God Or if you will needes contend that they are so left and that the Pope out of the treasure of the Church hath authority to pardon all such punishment or anie parte thereof let him make triall ofhis power in such corporal punishments as God laieth vpon his children for their corrections let him by his pardon release anie man of his sicknes age death if he can do none of these then either these are no punishments due to satisfie Gods iustice or els he hath no such power as is bragged of by dispensing of the treasure of Christes copious redemption to pardon men of all their punishment due to the iustice of God for sinne For if he had such power euerie sick man that receiueth a ple narie pardon à poena culpa should presentlie recouer of his disease yea I maruell how he should die if death be a penaltie due to the iustice of God for sinne which hath such a plentiful indulgence of all paines inioyned or deserued by sinne But if he cannot release one fit of an ague with all the pardons I maruell how he should release a man of all his paines of purgatorie yea spoile all purgatorie at once of all them that suffer paines therin except it be because he hath power onelie ouer that prison which is of his owne building and all that come therin but hath no power at all ouer them vpon whom God laieth any affliction either bodilie or spirituallie ALLEN Looke at the Prophet Dauid whether God corrected him not with temporall scourge after he
had expresselie forgiuen him by the warrant of the Prophet Nathan his greeuous sinnes Consider the case of all Gods elect people how sharpelie they were visited for sinne after it was in them pardoned Marke whether Marie Moises his sister was not punished and separated seuen daies as it were for penance after her brethren had procured her pardon at Gods handes Thus hath God of respect not onelie to mercie but also partlie to iustice so alwaies pardoned that he had consideration of iudgement and righteousnes Now whome should the Church follow in remitting of sinnes but him by whofe power and warrant she doth remit sinnes FVLKE We see that god did chastise the Prophet Dauid and his posterititie with a rodde of man and with a fatherlie correction but his mercie and louing kindnes he neuer tooke from them Neither punished them to satisfie his iustice for their sinne remitted but to make them and other by their example more carefull not to commit sinne in time to come The case of Gods elect people was somewhat otherwise Exod. 32. where although he receiued to mercie the wholl people that they should not be destroied from the face of the earth yet he might of his iustice punish a number of particular persons that were moste rebellious and authors of the defection and Idolatrie Marie the sister of Moses was also punished of God first to humble her and bring her to repentance and that punishment was continued on her for a few daies partlie to exercise her in earnest and hartie repentance partlie to admonish the people by her example to beware of murmuring against Gods ministers their lawfull magistrates not in respect of anie satisfaction of Gods iustice which can receiue none but a ful sufficient satisfaction in his beloued sonne Iesus Christ. Wherefore if the Church will follow God in remission of sinnes she must remit them freelie as God doth in Iesus Christ forgiue vs for so Saint Paull meaneth that men should forgiue one another their trespasses and not to remit the fault and retaine the paine except it be in case where men are appointed by God to execute paines as the Magistrates are or to practize discipline as the Church is in which case the Church may not think to satisfy Gods iustice but to seek reformation of the offender and to prouide for the example of others ALLEN Seeing God then him-selfe after he hath by his owne means and absolute power pardoned mans faultes and discharged him of the sentence of death and damnation had yet enioyned penance as when he said to Adam In the sweate of thy browes thou shalt prouide for thy liuing And to Eue. Thou shalt in paine bring forth thy Children And to them both that they should die the temporall death though they might escape by his mercie euerlasting miserie seeing this we neede not to doubt but temporall punishment often remaineth after the sinnes be remitted and that the Church of God doth imitate moste conuenientlie the saied mercie enioyned with iustice in all her most righteous practize of pardoning and punishing sinne in Christes behalfe by whose iurisdiction she herein holdeth But for the further proofe of the matter I haue saide much in the defense of Purgatotie and this question properlie of Purgatotie and this question properlie perteineth to ãâã place FVLKE That temporall punishment is laied vpon men often times although their sinnes be remitted it is no question but whether such punishment be a satisfaction to the iustice of God or a fatherlie discipline of his mercie that is the matter in controuersie The Church therefore in exercising the discipline of God vpon offendours may and ought to imitate the example of god but then shee must beware of two things the one that she laie no other burthen of punishment vpon the offendours then the worde of God will warrant therefore penance is not arbitrarie as the Canonists doe saie but to be directed by the worde of God Secondlie shee must take heede that shee release no more punishment then shee is able to laie on And therefore shee must be assured by the worde of God whether shee can eioyne penance to be suffered in Purgatorie before shee take vpon her to remit any such punishment touching which matter as you haue saied more in the defence of Purgatorie so haue I answered sufficientlie to the ouerthrow of Purgatorie and all that dependeth thereupon That Christ gaue by his expresse worde authoritie to the pastours of Gods Church to binde and loose not onely the sinnes themselues but also the temporall paine or penance remaining THE FOVRTH CHAP. ALLEN BVt now for the iurisdiction that Gods Church hath in releasing the same punishment which remaineth after the fault be forgiuen it standeth no doubt vpon that high commission which Christ receiued of his Father and did communicate moste amplie to the Apostles and by then to all Bishops for euer For the father did not onelie honour Christ his sonne according to his humanity with the power of priesthoode or with other soueraignitic for the institutious of sacraments or such like but with all regiment of that bodie whereof he is the heads as he is man By which keye of iurisdiction he corrected sinners with great Maiestie and pardoned them at his pleasure not onelie of sinne and euerlasting paine where the penitencie of the partie did so require but also of such correction as the law had prescribed for sinne or Gods iustice had enioyned for the same FVLKE That the Church hath any iurisdiction in releasing that punishment which remaineth after the faulte for giuen for a satisfaction of Gods iustice it hath not hetherto beene prooued nor euer shall be prooued by authoritie of the holie scriptures which teach the contrarie that Christ alone hath by his one sacrifice made perfect for euer those that are sanctified And therefore it is vnreasonable to seeke whereupon it standeth For neither did Christ receiue any such commission in his humanitie neither did he deliuer ouer any such iurisdiction vnto his Apostles to release temporall punishment due to Gods iustice vnsatisfied by his death and passion For by one oblation once offered by his eternall spirit he made perfect for euer those that are sanctified And the power of Priesthoode and soueraigne authoritie to institute sacraments and to be head of his Church he receiued not as man onelie but as our mediatour God and man The Lorde said vnto my Lorde saith Dauid sit thou on my right hand Thou art a Priest for euer c. Which offices authorities can not beseparated from his diuinity without Nestorian impiety Christ is head of his Church a Priest for euer as he is Dauids Lord but as he is Dauids Lord he is not onelie his sonne but his God therefore he is heade of his Church and a priest after the order of Melchisedeeh not as he is man onelie but as he is God man neither did he pardon any
man of sinne and euerlasting paine whome he also punished for the same sinne with temporal paine as a satisfaction to the iustice of God which none could satisfie in part or in wholl but he onelie by his obedience and suffering ALLEN And this iurisdiction and power of regiment he gaue to Peter principallie when he bestowed on him the keies of heauen vpon the rest of the Apostles with him the power of binding and loosing which is moste principallie and properlie meant of enioyning penance or punishing by sharpe discipline the sinners euill life either before they forgine his sinnes or afterward For as the place of the 20. of Saint Iohn properly concerneth the power of pardoning reteining or forgiuing penance for satisfaction in the sacrament by the right of Priesthoode receiued in their orders though it may somewhat concerne the iurisdiction of the high Magistrates also so the place of Saint Matthew rather perteineth to the chastisment of the wicked by the open discipline as they haue the regiment of al our affaires then it doth to the sacramentall remisstion or satisfaction enioyned For ligare there doth signifie some bond of punishment wherewith the partie is tied and charged for his correction and not onelie bonde of sinne wherewith the Church bindeth no man no more then God himselfe doth but euerie man onelie bindeth himselfe in his owne sinnes And the Church or her ministers doe properlie then binde when they punish by their iurisdiction the sinnes committed not for the damnation of them that did fall but for their correction and amendment And the plaine mention of excommunication which there is expressed to be giuen to the Apostles for the chastisment of such as by more gentle admonition will not amend nor obeie the Church doth prooue that to binde in that place namelie importeth power of punishment to be executed on the offenders which way of chastisment is an open exercise of discipline giuen to the Apostles to be vsed at their discretions for the edifiyng of Christs Church Therefore as to binde there is as well an act of the proper power of iurisdiction as it is a function of prie sthoode to be exercised in the sacrament of penance so to loose soluere in that place though it may signifie to remit sinnes in waie of sacramentall confession yet it is more aptlie correspondent so the words that went before of binding which was not sinne but the paine and punishment for sinne whereby it must needes fillow that as to binde doth fignifie to charge that penitent person with some temporall paine so to loose must also meane to dissolue the bande which before was laied on him for present correction FVLKE Christ gaue no more iurisdiction or power of regiment to Peter pricipallie when he bestowed the keies of the kingdome of heauen vpon him then vpon the rest of the Apostles vnto whome he gaue the like and equall power of binding and loosing of opening and shutting the kingdome of heauen as he did to Peter The same thing verilie saith Saint Cyprien were the rest of the Apostles that Peter was indued with the same fellowspip both of honour and of power That the power graunted in the 18. of Matthew pertaineth moste properlie and principallie to the chaistisment or reconcilement of open offendours by discipline the circumstance of place affordeth no lesse as the text Iohn the 20. ratifieth the effect of their message in them that imbrace or refuse the doctrine of the Gospell And that the gouernours of the Church haue power by excommunication to binde and by absolution to loose vpon good ground and cause in both cases you neede not halfe these wordes to prooue it for we doe acknowledge and practize no lesse in the Churches of Christ where we haue gouernement likewise that the Church hath authoritie for triall of the parties repentance to enioyne some exercise of humiliation and to release the same or part thereof beeing satisfied with the manifest signes of repentance and submission it is also out of controuersie But of your sacrament of penance or satisfaction for sinnes by either discipline established Matthew the eighteene or power of remission of sinnes graunted in the text Iohn the twentie we shall neuer be agreed vntill you can make plaine demonstration out of the holie scriptures that either God hath instituted the one or alloweth the other which you shall neuer be able to doe ALLEN For this is a rule moste certein that all the bandes which the Church laieth vpon any offender be medicinable if the partie list to take them and may be loosed by the same power of the Church by which they were bounde before And therefore euer as mention is made in scripture of binding or which is all one punishing of sinnes there is also mention of the like power of loosing for Christ would not giue power to the Church to binde or correct sinnes but much more he would haue the Church resemble himselfe being her head in mercie and therefore gaue her alwaies power to loose that kinde of punishment which shee by her ministers had bounde or inoyned before For these two actes beeing answerable in conference and contrarietie muste necessarilie follow ech other and properlie to the like power and prerogatiue Then the one beeing giuen to the Apostles euen out of the sacrament of penance the other muste needes also by the like right be receiued S. Ambrose rebuketh much the Nouatians because they would haue the Church enioyne penance but they liked not that he should mercifullie release the same againe nor the penitents sinnes neither Dominus saith he par ius soluendi esse ãâã ligandi qui vtrumque pari conditione permisit ergo qui soluendi ius non habet nec ligandi babes Our Lord would haue the right of losing binding to be like for equally he gaue the power of both Therfore whosoeuer hath not power to loose he hath no power to binde If anie man then list follow the Nouatians he maie holde at his pleasure that it preteineth to the Churches iurisdiction to binde that which she can not loose againe contrarie to Christes expresse graunt made vnto her first in the person of Peter and then in the right of all the Apostles to whome when he had promised as well the keies of order as iurisdiction he said vnto them whatsoeuer you shall binde in earth it shal be bound in heauen and whatsoeuer you loose in earth it shal be loosed in heauen first giuing them thereby authorititie to punish and then to pardon And therefore as the sacrament of penance wherein sinnes be released or retained was grounded vpon the wordes of Christ spoken to the Apostles after his resurrection whereof we talked so much in the former treatise so the power of giuing pardon or punishing out of the sacrament by the vertue of the iurisdiction as the Pope and other Bishoppes now doe and alwaies haue done is founded moste fast vpon this
not to recompence Gods iustice but to make satisfaction to the Church which is not to graunt remission in those cases but vpon good hope of the parties true conuersion and inwarde and vnfained repentance But as Augustine speaketh here of open satisfaction not to Gods iustice but to the Churches iudgement so you haue his authority or as good for secret satisfactioÌ which is now more vsed lest any man should feare that were not sufficieÌt to satisfy for the remnant of the debt due for mortall sinnes forgiuen I know not whether to impute it to ignorance or impudencie but most intollerable presumption it is to make that author whatsoeuer he was a faulter of your popish secret satis faction now vsed to be prescribed in your secret shrifts For this writer as I haue before declared aloweth no secret satisfaction for the loosing of mortal crimes but vpon a verie hard condition namely sed mutato priùs saeculari habitu c. but so that the secular habit be first changed and the studie of religion be confessed by correction of life and continuall and perpetuall sorow thorough the mercie of God but so onelie that he doe contrarie things to them for which he repenteth euery Sundaie humby and submmissiuelie vnto his death he receiue the Eucharist c. This is not to say pater noster in rememberance of the fiue wounds or to giue fiue pence grotes or shillings to fiue poore men or to fast fiue frydaies or such single satisfaction as your Popish priests in shirst doe enioyne Touching the worde satisfaction vsed by this Monkish Augustine it is neuer vsed by the right autentike Austine to graunt that the sufferings or doeings of man can satisfy the iustice of god who is satisfied by Christs obedience onelie and by none other meane the vertue of whose satisfaction is communicated vnto vs by the holie Ghost whereof we are assured by faith onelie but not by a solitarie faith as this heretike doth slaunder vs but by a faith accompanied fruiteful huelie effectuall and workeing by loue as the holie scripture teacheth vs whatsoeuer these blasphemous dogs barke against it ALLEN Now to this ende haue we saied al this that the faithful may vnderstand perfectlie what the Pope may by right remit thorugh his Pardon and Indulgence For looke what the officers of Gods Church may binde that without all doubt may they vpon good consideration release againe Therefore if they may enioyne penance for yeares and daies both openlie out of the sacrament and also in priuate satisfaction after Confession then may they release certaine daies and yeares of the same penance which was prescribed before For loosing and binding pertaine by reason law Christs owne graunt as to one act of iurisdiction that the one beeing lawfull the other must needes so be also If the Church be of right power and authoritie to prescribe penance of seuen yeares she hath the like right to remit vpon iust respect either all those yeares or some part of the same especiallie hauing meanes otherwise to supplie the lacke of fatisfaction of Gods iustice in the partie penitent FVLKE There is no faithfull man can perceiue by any thing that you haue saide what right the Pope hath to remit by his pardon and indulgence that which is enioyned by an other It is out of doubt that the officers of the Church vpon good consideration may release that which they binde except for in emissibie sins they binde with insoluble bandes And therefore they may release daies or yeares appointed for triall of the repentance if the Church can be satisfied in shorter time But for priuate satisfaction of Gods iustice or any satisfaction of his iustice they can neither binde nor loose enioyne nor release Therefore if the Church be of power to enioyne and prescribe penance for seauen yeares shee is of power also to release seuen yeares or part of the same but shee hath no meanes to supplie the satisfaction of Gods iustice which is fullie satisfied in Christ whose satisfaction is not to be disposed according to the iudgement of men but is applied to all the elect of God according to his will and pleasure Now whereas you speake of seauen yeares penance and the streightest Canons of Ancyre prescribe but 25. yeares for the greatest crime whereto serue so many thousand yeares of Pardon If therefore all that you haue saide tende to this ende that men may vnderstand that the Pope hath power to release times of penance enioyned seeing no councell euer enioyned a thousand yeares penance nor any penance beyonde the time of a mans life in so much that the Councell of Nice decreed that they which departe out of the world should be receiued into the communion although their time were not expired why doth the Pope take vpon him to graunt an hundred thousand yeares of pardon at a clap as I haue shewed before out of a pardon imprinted and confirmed by Leo 10 But if the Pope haue authoritie to graunt pardon for so many thousand yeares of penance enioyned by the right of binding and loosing which you saie by reason law and graunt of Christ pertaine to one act of iurisdiction that the one beeing lawfull the other must needs be so also Then may euerie priest enioyne an hundred 50. 40. 10. or 7. thousand yeares of penance to them that come to shrift as wel as the Pope giue pardon for so many thousand yeares for hundreds be but beggerly things to talke of where thousand be so rife If you answere that the Pope doth pardon not onelie yeares of penance enioyned but also of yeares due to be enioyned the difficultie is nothing auoided for if thousands of yeares be due the priest may enioyne thousands of yeares But then he shal exceede al the Canons penitential that euer were made in any councel and yet be forced to graunt pardon at the houre of death ALLEN And therefore I ioyne in argument and open reason with our aduersaries thus To giue pardon in moste common and Catholike sense of that worde is to release some part or all the enioyned penance for sinnes remitted But the Pope because he is the principall gouernour of Gods Church may release any penance enioyned vpon iust considerations Ergo the Pope may lawfullie giue Pardons The Minor wherein the aduersaries may perchance giue backe I prooue thus That which was bound by the Churches or Popes authoritie may be lawfullie loosed by the same authoritie againe because Christ himselfe ioyned in his graunt both these acts togetber and they are prooued to be proper to one iurisdiction But the Church by the Decrees of Bishops and Councells hath appointed such penance and so many yeares of correction for sundrie faults therefore the same Bishops or such as be of the like authoritie when they see occasion may remit the penance of the saied yeares or some part of it by limitation of daies or seasons as the state of the penitent requireth or the
time it selfe doth mooue them FVLKE These arguments I like well for they bewraie your infirmitie moste of al. And now for answere I saie that your Maior is false as weil as your Minor for the common Popish sense of pardons is as the wordes of them pretend that is to giue pardon not onelie of penance enioyned but also of sinnes Againe the gouernours of the Church as your Maior should haue beene framed but that you dare not come within the compasse of a lawfull syllogisme haue no power either to enioyne penance for sinnes remitted or to remit penance enioyned for sins remitted but of time of penance enioyned for satisfaction of the Church as we heard latelie out of Saint Augustine when the Church may be satisfied in shorter time Your Minor which you knew would not be admitted you take vpon you to prooue but you come nothing neere the matter for this is the point of your Minor which we denie that the Pope is the principall gouernour of Gods Church yea that he is any gouernour of Gods Church But if he were a Bishop of Rome as many were whose successour he claimeth to be he might be allowed in his Church of Rome to binde and loose enioyne and remit so farre as Christian discipline will beare but not to claime tiranie ouer all Churches as he doth Now you in your mishapen syllogisme in which you fumble diuerse matters together to deceiue the ignorant prooue that the Church and gouernours thereof haue power to release that which they haue power to enioyne which is not the matter in controuersie But whether they haue power to enioyne penance for sinnes remitted to answere Gods iustice or whether the Pope be a lawfull gouernour of the Church these and such like be matters of controuersie which you are neuer able to conclude in any lawfull and true syllogisme ALLEN And this argument shal be vnmooueable except they reiect with the Popes Pardons all manner of discipline as well of excommunication as other lesser satisfactions whereof we haue allreadie spoken as in deede to mainteine their falsehoode they must needes doe as also they shall be enforced to reprooue both the Councell of Nice all the holie Fathers and the generall practize of the Church and with them the expresse scriptures in which the worthie fruites of penance sharpe discipline iudging our selues obedience to our Prelates binding reteining of sinnes excommunicating and deliuering vp to Sathan be so often condemned It must needes be a miserabe doctrine of these Protestants which cannot be vpholden but by so shamefull shiftes and when we driue them into such straites in a matter where they thinke most may be saied for themselues and lest for our defence where shall they stand in our plaine causes in which almost our aduersaries confesse vs to haue the vantage of antiquitie and the preheminence of all ãâã Councells in the world But surelie I thinke falsehood hath so litle holde in all matters that it standeth onelie vpright whiles the contrarie is not seene or not vnderstanded which shee seeketh euer by all meanes shee may to couer and keepe close For the night shee loueth and in darkenes shee delighteth Doe but open the true sense of anie article by them impugned and it is more then halfe prooued and the enemies without argument vpon the sight of trueth in a manner discomfited So it fareth with them in our present cause which they haue long toyled and troubled in the mist of their phantasies and vpon false interpretation discharged amongst the simple sorte that that thing which in this sense as Gods Church that hath the ruling of the matter taketh it is so sure and so cleare in it selfe that I thinke they shall neuer be hable with honestie to speake against in any one parcell thereof FVLKE A boy that hath studied Logicke halfe a yeare may be ashamed to make such syllogismes and yet you are not ashamed to affirme before the worlde that this argument is vnmooueable except we reiect with the Popes pardons all manner of discipline And though it be manifest vnto the worlde that we practize all Godlie discipline which is according to the scriptures in requiring the worthie fruites of repentance iudgeing of our selues obedience to Christian Prelates practizing also the binding and reteining of sinnes excommunication and deliuering vp to Satan giuing that reuerence we ought to the holie Councell of Nice to all holie fathers and to the generall practize of the Church yet you blush not to write that we shall be enforced to reprooue all these It is not these beggerlie arguments M. Allen that shall enforce vs to these absurdities If you haue any better stuffe in store for Pardons bring it out for shame or ells talke no more of enforcement except it be in shrift where no man can controll you The rest to the ende of this Chapter conteining nothing but generall rayling and arrogant boasting after your accustomed manner I passe ouer as needelesse to be answered ãâã wise then it doth discouer it selfe in any wise mans iudgement That there be diuerse waies of temporall punishment remaining after sinnes be remitted euery of which waies may be in some cases released in parte or in wholl by the Pardons of Popes and Bishops THE SIXT CHAP. ALLEN ANd yet to giue more light to the matter and the greater ouerthrow to falsehood let vs driue the cause forward and weigh with our selues the wholl state of things in this order First that there be three waies of punishment of mans sinnes after they be released in the sacrament of Penance besides the fruites of repentance which man chargeth himselfe withall and besides the punishment appointed for offences by the ciuill or temporall lawes whereof I now speake not the first the easiest is that penaÌce which is in secret confessioÌ inioyned by our Confessor which is lightlie as these times be much lesse then the nature of the offence for which it was prescribed requireth Yet because it is taken obedientlie and by our iudges prescription and in a sacrament in which God alwaies worketh much more grace then he doth by the selfe same things without the sacrament and because the penitent is readie to take more if more had beene prescribed in all these respects it standeth often if it be any thing correspondent to the crimes for which it was inioyned for a ful satisfaction before god when it is accomplished FVLKE In the first Chapter of this booke you charged the reader to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of this cause but the methode you follow is such as becommeth your cause namelie the methode of deceitfulnes which is that you call the compasse of your cause For true methode requireth to proceede from things more better knowne to things lesse knowne as it were to build vpon a good foundation but your manner is to assume that which is the chiefe matter in controuersie and thereupon to builde as it were vpon an imaginarie
him for neither Saint Paull Saint Cyprian nor the councell of Nice graunted such pardons to such persons and for such causes as he doth therefore he followeth not their example but his owne presumption Yet let vs see how this argument is fortified First the paine prescribed by law he maie release because he is the principall executor of the law But who will allow him anie such principalitie in the Church that is no member of the same Secondlie he maie remit the pennance enioyned by the Priest because he is superiour to all piestes which is nothing but a miserable begging of that which is in controuersie The like is to be said of his changing of penance whereby he challengeth the like authority Although his changing of sharpe pe nance into easie paiment doth bewray what is the end of such permutation money is intended whatsoeuer is pretended Vrbanus the 2. in the councell of Claremounte exhorting men of al nations to the warre of Ierusalem began that release of penance for seruing in that cause which his successours afterward haue vsed as a gaie and gainfull pretense when they were disposed to enrich their coffers and mantaine their priuate quarrels ALLEN The like they do also often to set forward other workes of charitie to the benefit of Gods people as for the relieuing of Hospitals of Churches of high waies and such like Sometimes againe they extende their power which Christ gaue them to edifie his Church and increase religion and deuotion in the people as when thy giue pardon for so manie daies to such as shall receiue the blessed Sacrament faste and praie that heresie maie cease in the Church that the enemies of Christianitie maie not preuaile that infidels Iewes and heretikes maie be conuerted and Schismatikes knit them-selues obedientlie to the fellowship of Chistes folde So doth the Pope for the encrease of zelous deuotion and aduancing Gods honour giue daies of remission or full pardon to such as shall vsuallie haue meditations of Christes passion and death by certaine holie praiers appointed or by visiting places in which there be seene some liuelie sieppes memories and expresse tokens of Christe miraculous workes or his Saintes Thus to helpe vp the dulnesse of praying and seruing God in our daies he geueth grace and pardon to such as shall freauent the Churches at the times of their dedication or on certaine principall Feastes there either to be confessed and receiue the ãâã sacrament or els to ioyne in praier and deuotion with other the faithful people that thither at those daies haue principall recourse Hereof we haue example not onelie in the storie of the institution of the solemne Feast of Corpus Christi but also in the great generall councell holden at Laterane For this cause also and the like maintenance of holie praier by which the Church of God moste standeth hath he mercifully with singular wisdome giuen a pardon of certaine daies or years to such as should deuoutlie occupie such beades books or praiers in all which things orderlie giuen reuerentlie receiued I see not what can be reprehended of anie but such as are offended with all workes and waies of mercie charitie and deuotion The power and iurisdiction is prooued lawfull the causes why he should exercise his authoritie herein be verie vrgent Gods honour with the peoples commodite exceeding well respected all thinges here do edify and nothing at all destroy all things do stande by good reason nothing can be reprooued either with rea son or good religion FVLKE You tell vs what the Pope doth but neither by what authoritic of the holie scriptures nor by what example of the holie auncient Church He could neuer sit in the Temple of God boasting him-selfe to be God except he had some religious colour to blinde the eies of the world which submitteth vnto his antichiristan power And yet all the world knoweth that monie obtained for hospitalles Churches beades bookes and such baggage all the pardons in a manner that haue beene graunted As for the pretense of setting forward the workes of charitie fasting praing c. is not onelie hypocriticall but also wicked For neither men muste be hired to the workes of charitie and other Christian exercises by pardon of their punishments but exhorted and charged for the loue of God and vpon their duties neither should a sale be made of that which ought to be freelie graunted if the Church had such authoritie For freely saith he you haue receiued therefore freely you ought to giue Therefore though you cannot see in this filthy nundination what is to be reprehended we can see nothing that can be defended where neither the power is proued lawfull nor the causes reasonable nor the end godlie whatsoeuer is pretended nor meanes by the worde of God or example of the Pimitiue Church allowable That not onelie the penance enioyned in the sacrament otherwise by canonicall correction but also such paine as God him selfe prouideth for sinne may be released by the Popes Pardons and that Purgatorie paines may especiallie be preuented by the same remissions THE 7. CHAP. ALLEN BVt now because some may by course of our matter looke that I should declare whether the Popes Pardons may release any whit of that paine which God himselfe putteth the penttent vnto after his sinnes be forgiuen I must somewhat stand hereupon the cause is weightie and much misliked of our aduersaries and some other perchance to that see not so farre into the matter as they should doe before they giue anie iudgement thereof That the gouernours of the Church should remit Canonicall correction and priuse satisfaction with the bonde of penance either enioyned or els which by the lawes spirituall might be enioyned manie will confesse But that their power should reach to the remitting of that paine which Gods hand hath laied vpon the offender of temporall correction that they vnderstand not Truely for this they must be instructed first that the temporall punishment which God taketh on sinners that be penitent though it standeth by the law of nature aud was practized of the laws of nature and was practized of God himselfe before anie mans lawes were made for puuishment of sinnes yet now it riseth prin cipallie vpon lack of punishing of our selues or the accomplishing of such penance as the Church of God prescribeth For if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisficeth Gods righteousnesse and he will not punish bis in id ipsum twise for one fault or if man earnestlie and sufficientlie iudge him-selfe God hath promised by S. Paul that he will not iudge him also that is to saie that he will not correct him with more heauie discipline of this life or the life to come for that signifieth this word iudicare as the Apostle him-selfe doth interpret it Then it followeth that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him-selfe doth not now binde man otherwise then for the
Purgatory could not at al belong to the iurisdiction of the Church nor ãâã person therein yet in the life of the party some peece of the debt thereof oral may be released afore hand whiles the partie is in the power of the Church and her discipline ad so it must needs be at euerie time that the Church pardoneth the partie of all satisfaction or anic portion there of recompensing the same by application of Christes satisfaction and his saints For the bond of Purgatory riseth as I haue said vpon some satisfaction and penance to be fulfilled or done in this life the which ãâã bue either by our paines accomplished to the satisfying of Gods righteausnes or o therwise pardoned there is no debt or bond of purgatorie at all the which is so cancelled by thy Church our Mother that it can not be required of God our father FVLKE The Popish Church ãâã more sabtillie if shee take not vpon her at all either directlie or indirectlie to heale bodilie sicknes by pardons not because men can not iudge so well for what cause they are laid vpon the diseased but because shee knoweth right well that though shee may in the darke bregg of such a matter yet hath shee in deede no such power nor authoritie neither in the fortaken or reprobate nor in any of Gods elect But the bonde of Purgatorie where of there is neither argument nor experience shee may be bolde to deale with al at her pleasure either in preuenting or releasing Wherein I maruell you make the matter so deintie seeing it is holden on ãâã side that the Pope hath authoritie by his pardon ãâã onelie to release some out of the paines of purgatorie but also to spoile all Purgatorie and to leaue it ãâã Your example of the paines of hell that can not neither by God nor man be helped or released hath an instance in your owne schoole of the Emperour Traiane eased of hell paines at the praier of Saint Gregorie if the tole be true Beside Augustinus de Ancona disputeth earnestlie that the Pope hath power in hell to mitigate or release the paines of the damned or at the lest of some of them and that the Church praieth for that ende Wherfore you agree not with your fellowes nor with the Popish Church which praieth for the deade vt liberentur de ore Leonis de profundo lacu that they be deliuered from the mouth of the Lion and from the deepe lake But be it as you saie yet your argument of the similitude of hell and Purgatorie is of no force because we know certainlie by the scriptures that there is hell but Purgatorie we finde not in the holie scriptures as Saint Augustine saith of any third place But by the scripture we finde the ende wherefore Purgatorie is imagined to be forged false blasphemous against the sacrifice of Christ his death and satisfaction which was once perfectlie performed by himselfe and not committed to the application of any other man ALLEN And this mooued alwaies the Church of God diligentlie to prouide of her tender mercie toward her louing Children that they should neuer departe out of this life in any debt of penance knowing well that the residue not satisfied here should be required at their handes afore God in the next life And therefore though many yeares of penance were prescribed to all such as did notorious crimes yet there was made euer lightlie a prouiso that at the houre of their extremitie they should haue peace and pardon and the Churches blessing in the holie sacrament and so departe free from bond of the Churches discipline as far as in her laie might be also discharged of the temporall scourge in the next life as no doubt they were if their remained no other impediment in theÌselues So doth Nice Councell moste mercifullie prouide and so doth Ciprian and other fathers of the Primitiue Church that saw in their high wisedome the temporall paine to come much to hang on the parties satisfaction and the bond of the Churches enioyned penance And euen at this daie prouision is also made that no penance be giuen but vpon condition of his recouerie to any man that lieth at the extremitie of death lest he depart hence Ligatus bounde as Saint Augustine tearmeth it whereby the debt of his enioyned satisfaction might be required in Purgatory And nothing in the world prooueth more the Churches doctrine of purgatory Pardons then doth the continuall concorde and moste agreeable practize of these holie acts of binding and loosing vsed in her gouernement FVLKE The auncient Church in deede not acknowledging that shee had any authority to release any punishment to be suffered after this life determined alwaies the times of Canonicall penance with the ende of mens liues as I haue shewed before now you do acknowledge no lesse But if the Church had power after men were deade to release them of any paines shee needed not to haue beene so carefull in that point as shee was willing to comfort the penitent offenders at their depar ture as for the cancelling of all debt due for the satisfying of gods righteousnes which you did ascribe vnto the Church was the proper office of our sauiour Christ who performed that most necessarie worke to our eternal benefit once for all when he did put out the handwriting that was against vs in decrees and vtterlie abolished it nayling it to his crosse Finallie if nothing in the worlde prooueth more the Popish Churches doctrine of Purgatorie and pardons then the continuall practize of binding and loosing iustlie vsed in gouernement as you doe constantlie affirme it will easilie appeare that nothing in the world can prooue at all your blaspemous heresies of Purgatorie and pardons seeing the right vse of that power can be none other then according to the authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ of binding and loosing but neither purgatorie nor pardon out of that authoritie in any lawful forme of argument can euer be concluded howsoeuer in loose talke or scribling ignorant men may be caried awaie with the flow of wordes where there is no pitho argument How the practize of pardons of these late hundred veares differeth from the vsage of the primitiue Church and in what sense such great numbers of yeares and daies be remitted by the Popes pardons THE 8. CHAP. ALLEN BVt here we muste note some diuersitie in giuing Pardons and preuenting Purgatorie paines betwixt the primitiue Church of olde and ours of these latter hundred yeares which did moste iustlie rise vpon the alteration of ment manners state of things For in the primitiue Church enioyned penance was so large for euery mortal crime that it might seeme verie answerable vnto the nature of the faulte And doubtlesse it may not otherwise be thought but the spirit of God did limitate satisfaction by the Canons as agreeable in all pointes to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God
none can be bound or absolued but of his owneiudge we thinke that the foresaid remissions doe profit them onelie to whome that they might profit their owne iudges haue spirituallie or speciallie graunted Also the glosse vpon this decretall the author whereof liued after the Later an Councell saith that it was an olde complaint and yet in his daies verie doubtfull to what purpose these remissions or pardons were profitable remissiones ad quid valeant vetus est querela adhuc tamen satis dubia and rehearseth foure seuerall opinions concerning the validitie of them Some saie they auaile onelie towarde God but not toward the church Secondlie other saie that they auaile toward the Church but not toward God Thirdlie other saie that as they are giuen they auaile both toward God and toward the Church And the fourth saith that they auaile onclie to the remission of that penance which is negligentlie omitted To which the glosse addeth his opinson agreeing fullie with none of them all nor with the later Canonists Among which opinions you haue patched vp your wauering seÌtence of the validity or inualidity of pardons in this Chapter This diuersity of opinions among the Papists themselues argueth that the doctrine of pardons was verie raw and not halse digested in those daies The agreeablenes thereof with the worde of God and the practize of the primitiue Church when it shall be shewed we shal thinke better of them in the meane time you must bring better proofe out of the scriptures for them then you doe for Popish Bishops blessing out of the 10. of Saint Matthew or ells we shall haue litle cause to esteeme them more then it ALLEN Truelie that holypeace which Christ gaue to his Apostles at his comming into them at his departure from them and ells as ãâã entreth vpon any holie action signified nothing ells but an agreement and peace of mans soull with God and did no doubt purge them from their dailie infirmities which we call veniall sinnes and the bonde of all paine as it may be thought due for the same that in the presense of Gods maiestie sinne might cease and the parties appeere cleane afore his face that had nospot of sinne in himselfe at all as by the saied peace yet giuen to the worthie receiuers by holie Bishopps ministerie some like effect doth surelie ensue I vse this terme of peace when I speake of pardons not because they are preciselie meant in the action of giuing peace common to Christ his Apostles but because I see the olde fathers lightlie call that peace which we now call pardoning and perchance they did allude to that which Christ willed his Disciples to bestow on euerie householde for a kind of blessing Which no doubt was some great benefite and so great that our Master signified vnto them that many should be vnworthie of it and that the fruite thereof should redound to them-selues Which caused both Bishops of olde for Saint Augustine maketh mention therof to giue their blessings and euerie man humblie to require the same on their knees whereby surelie some spirituall grace was receiued and remission either of veniall trespaces or paine due vnto forÌmer sinnes giuen Let apish Camites here mocke and mow at their Mother as they customablie doe whiles the obedient children the discreete and deuout of Gods Church thinke it an high point of wisedome onelie to consider the maruelous direction of our fathers waies in the doctrine of discipline and awe of Gods relgion FVLKE That peace which Christ gaue to his Apostles was the quietnes of conscience reconciled to god and discharged of all sinnes and the paine due to satisfie gods righteousnes for them and the same peace did Christ send his Apostles to offer preach and wish to all them that would receiue it which if they refused became vnprofitable to them But the Popish Bishops blessing which consisteth in shaking his fingers and murmering some wordes perhapps not vnderstood of the people whome they neuer teach what the peace of conscience meaneth is no better then a vilde mockery of the peace that Christ gaue and willed his Apostles to offer where they became Whereas you alledge Saint Augustine for the antiquitie of the Bishops blessing it is a friuolous matter For he maketh no other mention but that after earnest praierhad bin made for patience and constancie of faith in one that was the next daie with daunger of his life to be cut for a fistula both by the partie himselfe a Bishop and many other Godlie persons then present that they arose from praier accepta ab episcopo benedictione discessimus and hauing receiued blessing of the Bishop we departed How can the superstitious blessing of Popish Bishops be resembled to this but onelie in the name of blessing For here is no requiring of it on knees nor any opinion of remission of sinnes by it but onely a Christian salutation or farewell by praier mentioned which all Godlie Bishops and elders doe in our Church vse euen at this daie speciallie in dimission of a Godlie congregation gathered to heare the preaching to praier or participation of the sacraments or such holie purposes which all Christians do esteeme as it becommeth them without making an Idoll of the minister or trusting in the ceremonie confirming their faith in God by the praior and blessing of his seruants in his name in whome is all their hope trust and ioye reposed That the Bishops beeing the highest ministers of Gods Church and namelie the Pope as the principall of the rest may onelie lawfullie giue Pardons and in what sense the soules depatted may be releiued by the same THE 11. CHAP. ALLEN OF the necessarie disposition of them that should effectuallie receiue benefit by the pardons of the Church and of the right intent of them that should giue the same wee haue already sufficiently spoken And now perchance some may thinke it necessarie that it should be opened brieflie in whome this authoritie of releasing the paines inioyned for sinne doth principallie consist Whereof I shall with better will bestow a few wordes because we shall haue occasion thereby to open the common sense of a wholl Councel both learned and godly touching the matter of Pardons in the iudgement whereof assuredlie proceeding from the holy ghost we may with safetie take our rest Of the lawfull minister therefore of these remissions the scripture in precise tearmes prescribeth nothing though the power of binding and loosing whereupon the matter standeth is prooued properlie to be an act of the keie namelie of iurisdiction and externall regiment which agreeth not to the simple Priestes hauing no further iurisdiction but in the secret court of mans conscience Wherupon as also by the vsage of all ages and by the prescription of the lawe it is prooued that Bishops onely or such as haue their authority for the execution of their office may lawfullie giue remission of satisfactions appointed for sinnes remitted Neither were it
yow saith he that can be are with no mans faultes but your owne did not subscribe to the crime as the law ordeineth to binde your selues to the punishment of the faults which you could not prooue against other Yes verelie either for the generall crime of heresies laide against Antichrist and his sinagogue or the particular crimes against the persons of many Papists the reachers of this learning which we professe and many professours also haue put to their names and subscribed with their owne handes And although they failed not of proofe if they had beene heard before indifferent iudges yet haue they beene cruellie tormented and put to death for the testimonie of the trueth whereas if Frarine should haue beene bounde to the ordinance of the law which he prescribeth to others if he had as many liues as Hydra is fained to haue heades his bodie would not haue sufficed to the execution which he hath deserued both for his particular slaunders against some men and for his last generall accusation of all Protestantes But yet more impudentlie you behaued your selues and more contrarie to all order and forme of lawfull proceeding for in this your monstrous iudgement of reformation you were accusers witnesses Iudges and hang men yourselues Howe much more rightlie might he haue vttered this against the Pope who beeing accused of heresie and blasphemie would be his owne iudge and tried by no witnes butof his owne allowing wheras the Protestantes neuer refused the arbitriment of a free and lawful councel the auncient remedie to decide the controuersies of the Church where the word of God should be the highest Iudge against which no conuocation of men haue power to define any thing But it maie be saith Frarine that your vow of chastitie which you were not suffred to break by mariage which he calleth bathing their bodies in the stinking pudle of carnall pleasures was the cause of your vprores How vnfitlie this quarrell of vowes is alledged against Caluine and Beza the principall teachers of the french nation who neuer made that vow all wise men maie laugh to consider Yet he followeth the matter verie whotlie and saith that faith and promise to a mortall enemie is to be kept much more made to almightie God I would this eloquent orator had beene aliue in the time of the councell of Constance that he might haue persuaded the Popish Church to haue kept the publike faith and safe conduite graunted to Hus and Hierome which was shamefullie violated vnder colour that faith was not to be kept with heretikes or in the time of the slaughter of Varni which drew with it the destruction of the noble realme of Hungarie that he might haue diswaded the pope from stirring vp the king of Hangary to breake the faith and league of peace made with the great Turke vpon pretence that faith is not to be kepte with infidels But as for vowes made to god except they be of things vnlawfull or which are not in our power to performe who doubteth but they are inuiolablie to be obserued The vow of chastitie in such as are not able to conteine is not kept by not marrying But rather dailie broken in burning The remedie whereof by the iudgement of Epiphanius and Saint Hierom and the Catholike Church of their times is mariage and not the common stewes and brothell houses light women maried and vnmaried and Nuns fallen from their profession which Frarine doth leaue vnto them as a lesse euell then mariage But where are those common stewes and brothel howses which he saith are open at all times and euerie where at mens pleasures Are there any to be shewed vnder such Christian Princes Magistrates as manteine the doctrine of the Gospell no verilie but where poperie reigneth where the Pope setreth himselfe at Rome No maruell though such grosse impietie be not onely suffered to be vnpunished but also by the Popes proctors to be desended as conuenient Yet some townes are so well ordered that votaries can not be suffered to haue a misteris Candida for a vessell of easement which he saith is Couerdales phrase yet sheweth no place where he demaundeth then whether that were a sufficient quarrell to bidde battaile to manteine the kingdom and Gospell of Venus in euerie place so chast religious his phrases be while he carpeth at Couerdales phrase whome perhappes he belieth in such sence as he meaneth I answer there was no such cause For if they had beene as greatlie addict to Ladie Lecherie as he faineth of them those well ordered townes are not so manie in Poperie but that they might with much more ease haue remooued to Cyties of greater licence then to haue taken in hand and indured so great and dangerous warres And if the satisfying of lust without regard of conscience had beene the marke they shot at they needed not so to haue bound themselues to one woman in mariage which bringeth manie cares and troubles with it when they might without controllement haue had their change and choice as you confesse by the common stewes euerie where euen to the cloying of carnall lust if they had continued still in Poperie But yet further searching out the cause of these warres taken in hand he obiecteth that some of our side suffered for the words sake for so saith he ye cal that cursed Gospel of yours Doubtles we cal the word of God and no Gospell of ours but the Gospell of Christ by that tearme which we finde vsed in the holie scriptures therefore are not afraid of it Nay but you suffered worthilie saieth he for barking at prelates Princes for working al means to wring the sword out of their hands for troubling and disordering the state of common weales for blaspheming the sacrament of the alter and therfore they were no Martyrs but rather Diuelles This lastcrime dependeth vpon that controuersie of doctrine whether that which he tearmeth a sacrament be not rather a sacriledge detestable Idole as it is vsed in poperie The other crimes are vtterlie false and manifestlie confuted by the quiet behauiour of those professors in all places where they be not assaulted with intollerable iniuries and by the florishing estate of those kingdomes common wealthes where this doctrine by publike autoritie hath long time bene receiued But was it meete saith he that because they could not freelie preach the worde therefore they should by and by laie hand on the sworde The Apostles were went to suffer and not to strike But O Master Ministers your word is verie hard you speake gunnestones you preach fire and powlder you ride to preach on barbed horses you put on your corpsiet not of faith but of iron Al your proceedings and teachings are contrarie to Christ and his doctrine What wise man may not laugh at this vaine rhetorike who hath sene or hard the modest and Christianlike behauiour of our preachers that I speake nothing of their doctrine yea Christ saith he was
content to ride on an Asse the Apostles to goe barefot in planting the Gospell But whereon ãâã the pope and how be his Cardinals feete surbaighted in going barefote to preach the Gospell Although I knowe not where he findeth in holie scripture that the Apostles went barefote in planting the Gospell Their trauell was great into all partes of the world though they had bene well shood yea booted and ridden on horsebacke But if the comparison be made between the ministers of the Gospell and Antichrist the Pope and his proud prelates whether in pacience humility and mildnes of behauiour be more like to Christ and his Apostels we doubt not our cause though the triall were before verie partiall iudges Well howsoeuer it were you should haue suffered Martyrdome rather then to haue resisted and murthered other but that you would not for you sought to liue licentiouslie and had no hope of eternall life after this Among so manie thousand as suffered martyrdome most quietlie without resistance when they were imprisoned tormented and condemned by those which had power to kil their bodies he can finde no examples of pacience and hope of eternall life except all the Protestants in the world will giue there throtes to be cut and suffer themselues to be murthered contrarie to lawe and liberties established by lawfull authoritie and that by priuat persones and bloodie Tirants as the poore Christians were by the Duke of Guyse at Vassi and so should all the rest in Fraunce haue beene if God had not stirred vp diuers Princes and noble men at the request of the Queene Mother to oppose themselues against the furious and trayterous attempts of that bloodie tyrant who abusing the minoritie of the King whome he toke captiue with his mother vsurped moste vnlawfull power against the King the Queene the estates and all the realme Frarine therefore fareth with vs as that seditious Ruffian of Rome who sued an action against his enemie whome he had wrongfullie wounded because he receiued not his weapon deepe enough to death Christ himselfe the paterne of patience saide to the seruant which moste iniuriouslie smote him when he stoode in iudgement before the high priest why smitest thou me if I haue spoken euill beare witnes of euill that is deale with me as order of iustice requireth And Saint Paule his faithfull disciple could not forbeare that painted wall Ananias who pretending to sit in iudgement according to the lawe did contrarie to the lawe commaund him to be smitten and should the Protestants in Fraunce hauing both authoritie and power to defend themselues suffer the Duke of Guyse a priuate man and a straunger with his complices to smite of all their heades as it were with one stroke and not rather to oppose themselues against his furie not onelie for defence of the gospell but also for the maintenance of the lawe and the libertie of their nation There resistance therefore was not treason rebellion crueltie as this declaimer raueth butobedience iustice and authoritie to withstand treason crueltie and rebellion Yet againe he repeateth that lack of libertie was no iust cause of these warres seing euerie where they might fill their paunches carrie a sister wife about with them toule Nuns out of cloysters filthilie abuse them still he speaketh as though none were Authors Captaines or Souldiers of these warres but such licentious ministers or as though so manie princes noble men gentlemen and valiant souldiers as serued in those warres had no other quarrell but to maintaine the gluttonie and lecherie of a fewe lewde ministers of which sort yet he is not able to name one Neuertheles he saith that moste commonlie euerie Apostate Monke had his Nun at his toile and holie Kate hir holie mate Although the worlde knoweth that this might better be verefied of Clauster all Monkes and Nunnes of limiting friers and their holie sisters But srier Luthers pleasure was if we beleeue this man that his Ladie Venus court should be franke and free if the wife saith he will not doe it let the maide supplie her place The will of God commaundeth and necessetie bindeth as well to haue carnall copulation as to eate and drinke See how malice draweth all wordes to the worste meaning Luther in his booke of Babilonicall captiuitie speaking in the person of Assuerus taking Hester his maide to wife when Vasti refused to come to him hath some such wordes as he reporteth If the wife will not let the maide come and possesse her place meaning nothing els but the diuorcing of Vasti and the marrying of Hester but nothing as the Papists cauill that a man hauing a wife maie abuse his maide The other saying of the necessitie of carnall copulation is spoken onelie of them that haue not the gift of continencie for whome marriage is the lawfull and necessarie remedie ordained by God to auoide sinne To conclude this first part he saith it was neither religion nor gospell nor Gods quarrell they meant to further but malice against the pope as Luther in an epistle ad argentin confesseth But Luther neuer confessed any such matter he might well acknowledge his iust hatred against the Pope as the enemie of Christ and so doe all true Christians And if the estates of France had raised warre for malice against the Pope they would haue sent a power into Italie to haue annoyed him or his possessions there as Charles the 5. and Philip his Catholike sonnes haue done for the loue they bare to the Pope As for the restitution of Christian faith wel neere worne out there was no neede he saieth to laboure For the Church of God the seat and piller of truth had alwaies without force battaile kept that most recurently Then it followeth the Church of Rome was not the Church of God for which Christ praied Ihon. 17. To which he promiseth the holie Ghost Ihon. 14. In which are fouÌd so few sparkes of true faith which mainteineth so many grosse errours eontrarie to the expresse wordes of God conteined in the holie scriptures as often and moste cleare demonstrations hath beene made To be short if the cause of these warrs taken in hand be demaunded which he calleth Tragicall and cruell doinges you shall haue a short answear saith he with Mum Budget except they will alleadge perhappes the ambition auarice boldenes wantones of certaine loose Friers as though he could be ignorant of the publike protestation of the Prince of Condy and a great part of the nobilitie of Fraunce set forth when they beganne the first warres In which they neither alledge the fond surmised causes by Frarine nor mumble them ouer in Mum Budget but plainlie declare the reasonable sufficient and necessarie causes which mooued them to that attempt The copie whereof is yet extant in storie to be seene and read Now is he come to the second part wherein he will prooue that as without iust cause so without authoritie and commission they haue made warres And
first he saith though Kinges for light or no iust causes making warres are greatlie in fault yet the soldiours are excusable because they obeie lawfull authority But in these warres where no Magistrate biddeth them strike all are priuate men or rather all ãâã ãâã and most cruel murtherers so with many needles words he runneth out into the common place of treasoÌ rebellioÌ in which whatsoeuer cause be pre tended the war is vnlawful because it wanteth lawfull authority But such was not the cause of the protestaÌts warres in France where the King being vnder age and brought into captiuitie against his wil by a traitor by whoÌe also the edict made by the authority of the three estates of the Realme was violated witha moste barborous and cruel slaughter ofinnocent men being in exercise of their Religion as it was lawfull for them to doe by the Princes of his bloode and other nobles called also thereunto by the often letters of the Queene his mother to deliuer him and her from captiuitie was sought to be set at libertie his lawes to be obserued and the publike quiet of the realme to be restored and so Frarines question is answered whence came you who sent you by what authoritie doe you all these things The princes and noble men that ioyned in leagu to withstand the tirannie of the Guisians haue declared their commission in a publike instrument set forth to the vew of the world the copie of the Queene mothers letters are set forth in storie for euerie man to reede The originalles remaine with the prince of Condyes heires and haue beene seene of manie But what shall Guise answer if he be called to shew his commission by what authority he slew the poore people at Vassie by what authoritie he seased vpon the persons of the King and the Quene his mother against their willes as was manifest by the Queenes great pro testation against the violence and iniurie and the yong Kings teares By what authoritie he remooued them from the pallace of Fountaine de Bleu first vnto the prison of Melun castle and afterward to Paris a place indeed more meere for a King if the violence of the enemy had not made that also a prison For not somuch the place as the restraint of libertie maketh a prisoner It is certaine that Guyse had no commission no authoritie no lawfull power to doe these thinges nor whatsoeuer he did afterward abusing the name of the captiue King and the authoritie of the King of Nauarre contrarie to the edict and true meaning of them that laide gouernment vpon him As for Beza and the ministers of the reformed Church whome he faineth to haue beene dombe when they were demaunded by the Cardinall of Lorraine in the assemblie at Poysie answered for their vocation first to the Sorbonist Espensius who proponed those questions that they were lawfullie called and approoued in the Churches where they serued And the next daie more at large to the shame and confusion of the Popish cleargie and their vnlawfull and simoniacall vocation contrarie both to the olde Canons of the Church and to the authoritie of the holie scriptures declaring also that as the ceremonie of imposition of handes by the ordinaries as they call them is not allwaies needfull in an extraordinarie calling So miracles are not alwaies necessarie to approoue an extraordinary vocation as the examples of Esay Zacharie Amos and others of the Prophets declareth But Martin Luther whome Frarine maketh our chiefe Apostle and patriarch he taketh vpon him to know verie well what he was whence he came and what authoritie he had First his name was not Luther but Luder which signifieth a slaue or knaue but that for shame he changed that filthie name of his He would make vs beleeue that he was driuen to do the same that Pope Os porci or Hogges snowte did which turned his name to Sergius of whome all Popes since saue one haue taken the custome to chaunge there names which thing if Luther had done he had done no worse theÌ the pope had giueÌ him example to do It is a folish quarrel that is picked against a mans name which he hath receiued of his elders although the name of Luther being of honest signification needed no such change for who will thinke that Luther knewe not his owne name as well as Frarine But it it is a greater matter that he was begotten of a spirit Incubus as the common report goeth saith Frarine For that he was borne at Islebium in Saxonie I trust it is no reproch to him more theÌ for Frarine to be borne at Antwerpe in Brabant But is Frarine such a great philosopher to beleeue the common report of Luthers conception by a spirit Incubus which is impossible And whoe should be the authors of such a report But such impudent wretches as shewed more malice then wit in deuising such a monstrous lie as neuer was nor euer could be And yet what papist is there of any acount which fauoreth not this foolish fable which although in their conscience they know it neither was nor can be true yet are not onelie content that it runne among fooles as a currant argument but also offer it in their writinges to the ignorant as a matter sufficient to discredit Luther and all his teaching But to proceed that he studied the ciuill law when he was yong that he was mooued to become an Augustine frier by terror of his companione slaine with thunder or lightning if it were neuer so true what needed it to be rehearsed seeing it maketh nothing to the lawfullnes of his calling or to the discredit of his doctrine But at last saith he he was made Doctor with shame enough for he came to that degree with the monie that was bequethed vnto an other man whom with the helpe of his prior he be guiled If Luther were not sufficientlie knowne to the world to haue beene excellentlie well learned he would insinuate thathe were like a doctor Bullatus which bought his doctorshippe of the Pope for mony But seeing for the solemnitie of that degree in schooles their is vsuall some expences he chargeth Luther at the least to haue come by that monie wrongfullie and as it were by theft They that write the storie of his life affirme that the Prince his soueraigne did beare the charges of his coÌmencement And this slaunder of Frarine as it is void of profe so hath it not so much as anie likelie hood of truth For Luther being at that time a frier could possesse nothing in proper no more could anie other frier possesse anie monie that was bequeathed vnto them Now if the prior of the house did defraie the charges of Luthers commencement with the legacie that was giuen to anie other of his bretheren it was all one as if he had done it out of there common boxe for friers possesse nothing in proper but in coÌmon the dispositioÌ wherof pertaineth to
the head of the house But if he will saie this other man was no frier then he must shewe what he was whoe was the testator what fraude Luther and his Prior vsed to deceiue him and bring good proofe thereof or els who is bound to beleeue him But to goe forward other estate or degree or Apostleshippe he knoweth not that Luther had anie what then was not this sufficient calling for him that was a Doctor of the Popish Church to preach against the abuses and errors thereof and when his doctrine and conclusions were vndoubtedly agreeable to the holie scriptures might he not iustlie affirme that they were from heauen And that he was sent from heauen to teach the Germanes the trueth of the Gospell which of long time had beene hidden from them For that he was their first Apostle or that before his daies they neuer had any true religion or Christian doctrine he neuer said Neither did he make more account of himselfe then of Saint Augustine and all other Fathers of the Church although in the booke quoted by Frarine he preferreth that doctrine which is agreeable to the holie scriptures before the iudgement of Augustine and all men that euer were As for the familiar conference and talke with the Deuill which Frarine affirmeth that he reporieth of himselfe And that Cocleus and al his enemies doe gnaw so much vpon to prooue that he was set on by the Deuil to gainesaie the masse Is nothing but a ridiculous cauill For Luther speaketh of a spirituall conflict that he had with Sathan for saying masse so long which at length he acknowledged to be blasphemous against the death of Christ. Not of any bodelie appeerance of the Deuill or familiar talke with him as the malice of the Papists doe expound him Next Luther our Orator will examine Caluins vocation Caluine saith he was borne at Nouiodunum in Picardie What of that He was banished from his countrie for his wicked behauiour That is false For he liued in his countrie in good credit both of learning and honestie till the crueltie of the Papists caused him to seeke the libertie and profession of religion abroad which he could not haue at home That he was the veriest vnthrist naughtiest varlet of all his companions when he was in his countrie is an impudent slaunder for at Orleans he red the lawe lecture oftentimes in the place of Petrus Stella the publike reader and was so well accounted both for his learning and vertue that the degree of Doctorship in that facultie with full consent of all the teachers was offered him without anie expences as one that had verie well deserued of the vniuersitie Afterward at Paris he set forth that notable commentary of his of Seneca de Clementia He was of great familiaritie with Nicolaus Copus Rector of the vniuersitie of Paris and in good credit with the Queene of Nauarre sister vnto King Frauncis He had conference with Iacobus Faber Stapulensis in Aquitanes and after he had set forth that worthie booke of his called Psychopanuchia at Orleans against them which taught that the soules departed doe sleepe vntill the resurrection without sense of good or euill he came to the Citie of Basill This course of his life as it is written in his storie with much more to this effect doth witnes that he was euen from his youth a man indued with singuler modestie temperance and godlines whatsoeuer his aduersaries without all proofe or shewe of truth are not ashamed to inuent and brute against him When he was at Basill he did not hide his head as the slaunderer saieth but desired in deed to be priuate that he might better applie his studies and especiallie the Hebrew tongue But such was his excellencie that he could not be hid from the principall learned men of that vniuersitie and so litle was he hid that there he first set forth his Institution dedicated to King Frauncis Our declaimer saith that from Basile he passed to Strasburg and there began to shew his head and preach to the Runnagats But that is false for from Basill he went into Italie to visit the Duchesse of Ferrara from whence he returned into Fraunce where hauing set all his affaires in order he brought away his onely brother AntonieCaluine intending to settle him selfe either at Basill or at Strasburg But al other passages being stopt he was forced to trauaile thorough Sauoye and comming to Geneua onely to visite Farellus and Viretus by whose zealous earnest labours Popery being banished and the Church there reformed he was staied by the terrible obtestation of Farellus and by the Presbyterie and Magistrates chosen to be a teacher and intepreter of the Scriptures in that Church But that he put out the deputie of the citie expelled the Bishops and Popish cleargie reigned there like a conquerour by the law of ireason and force of armes as Frarine saieth it is a moste impudent lie though an hundred Lindanes had sworne that it was true For the Bishoppe with his Popish cleargie was departed out of the citie and the Religion reformed by publike authoritie receiued long time before Caluines first arriuall thether Of like trueth it is that Beza in his baudie and filthie epigrames as it pleaseth Frarine to call them farre passeth the wanton Pagan Poetes Martiall and Tibullus For in the moste licentious of these epigrames first condemned by Beza himselfe there is not one word of obscenitie although they were made in a fained argument after the immitation of those Poets And if they had bin as full of baudie tearmes and matters as Martiall himselfe Yet so long as Beza coÌtinued in popery where they were freely printed selde they were catholike enough What should I speake saith he of Bernardinus Ochinus the preacher of Polygamie Verelie there is no cause why he should speake of him seeing both the man and the doctrine are detested in our Churches and by our writings confuted He nameth also Bernard Rotman and Iohn of Leyd authors of the Anabaptisticall sedition at Monster as though wee had any thing to doe with them Yes saith he they conquered the field against the Lutheranes by pretence of scripture onelie as Rotman before vanquished the Papists The storie is written who list to reade wherein may be found they vsed other craftes beside force of armes then pretence of scripture onelie to compasse their diuelish attempts And what if they had vsed the pretence of scripture onelie as the diuel did in tempting our sauiour Christ was the scripture onelie of lesse force to confute their false pretence then when it was vsed by our Sauiour Christ against the Deuill He telleth vs of Hosiander reprooued of vs for heresie of Carolostadius who thorough folly madnes became a ploughnian The names also of Peter Martyr Illiricus Musculus Farellus Viretus and Bucer a gainst whom he hath nothing to say besides I know not what Marote Malote And that these should vsurpe
of their handes as euen at this present that vile Antichrist ceaseth not to practise against the moste lawfull and Christian Queene of England But by what scriptures saith Frarine did you conspire at Geneua like villaines traitorous to murther king Frauncis and the scottish Queene his wife his mother brethren and all the nobles and Catholike osficers of Fraunce Surelie I know not what conspiracy he meaneth I remember not that I haue hard of anie in the time of Frauncis but that wherof ensued the tumult of Amboyse neuer allowed at Geneua as the letters of Caluine to his friendes doe testifie nor heard of vntill it was on foote and suppressed The beginning where of was at Nantes in Britanie The purpose was to remooue the Guisians from gouernment The articles of which diuers were these That nothing should be done against the King the Princes of his blood and the state of the realme That their dignitie and the liberty of their country should be defended as much as might be froÌ the violence of straungers But if you aske Frarine how he knoweth all this he answereth by a book set out in print vnder the kings priuiledge intituled Defence Reg Relig. As though all must needes be as true as the Gospell which is printed with priuiledge where it were more reason that he should giue credit to the kings owne edict of pacificatioÌ signed with his hand printed with priuiledge and proclamied with sound of trumpet in all cities of his realme in which he cleareth the princes and them that tooke armes for his libertie against the Guisians and the mantainance of the edict of Iaunarie of all crime of treason and sedition and acknowledgeth that they did all thinges in his seruice and to his honour But Frarine being at Orleans in the time of that warre did see with his eies a seditious sibell printed in the name of all Hugonites wherein was nothing but impudent bouldnes threatning and weason Neuerthelesse he confesseth that this libell was not allowed of the Prince and states when he saieth the printer was kept and feasted a few daies with the officers of that towne within their houser instead of a prison Belike the libell was not so harnous as Frarire affirmeth else it is not to be thought but that the printer should haue had greater punishment CoÌcerning Goodmans booke being of the same argument and ume with that of Knoxe before mentioned shall need no other answer then I set downe before But a greater accusation is behinde When the Emperour Charles was entangled at Oenipont the great Turk was requested to make warre in defence of there Gospell and the Bassa of Bude to set vpon his brother Ferdinande in Hungarie Who affirmeth this Staphilus the runnegate which neuer lied or rather which seldome spake the truth tush saith Frarine the letters of that conspiracie were taken their treason by no coloure can be cloked Whose letters Frarine by whome were they taken by whom were they sent to whome were they directed If you answere nothing we saie it is as easie for you or Staphilus to faine the taking of letters as the conspiracie with the Turk The next complaint is of abolishing the laws of the Imperial chamber that all things may be decided with fire sword as Brunus saith which is an impudent slaunder For Germanie was neuer in greater peace quieines since the reformatioÌ of the vnreasonable customes of that court more then thirtie yeares agoe As for the abro gating of the ciuill lawes and making of a new policie of their owne deuise which he saith appeareth by manie bookes libelles is a foolish slaunder not worthie of any answer seeing he nameth no author of those bookes by which it might appeare that the Protestants had such fantastical coies in their heades Vnto the last place he reserued the weightiest matter of all and that is their contempt of the councell of Trent in railing at all the Prelates Princes in refusing to come thether vnder sufficient safe conduct As for Princes which are no part of the councel it is false that they contemned them but Antichrist and his rable of Idolatrous Priestes and prelates deserue a worse thing then contempt that they refuse to come to the Chapter of Trent among manie reasons they haue two most euident to defend theÌ For the tragedie of Constance councell doth admonish them that no safe conduct can be sufficient among papistes And where he which is chiefly accused of heresy Idolatry wil be the only iudge of al coÌtrouersies what should it auaill them to be heard in such a councell in which is an hundreth times lesse equitie then was shewed in anie hereticall councell of Arrianes Nestorianes Eutichianes or anie other auncient heretikes And now he is come to the third and last section of his circle to declare how cruellie they haue behaued themselues in their wars what hurth ath come by them in which part after much vain babling general accusing of all faith religion iustice chastitie deuotion learning nurture goodnes godlines banishea from many places persons planting of Turkish hethenish Iewish vnsensible blindnes at last he touch eth particulares that Lu ther by that verse of his Host is eraÌ ãâã moriens tua mors ero Papa Thine enimie I was liuing and thy death O Pope I wil be dying attempted the vtter ouerthrow both of the spiritualtie and of the Empire by what reason I know not for I see no consequence but as the rising of the Pope was by the decaie of the Empire so the falling of the pope whose enimy Luther threatned to be quick and dead would be the establishing and aduancement of the Empire After this he reckoneth the expences trauayles and care of minde that Charles the fifth was put vnto by fighting against them For answere whereof it maie be said that Charles the fift with more gaine les labour thought of minde first and last might haue suffered them to inioie their religion according to the libertie of Germanie and not to haue made such cruell warre vpon them for no iust cause as he did Further our Orator czieth out how manie cities castler Abbies Hospitalles schooles colledges Pallaces gentelmens houses and cloisters hath this gospelish rebellion quite ouerthrowen and sacked All which damages who seeth not are to to be ascribed to their fault who were authores of vniust warres and not of the Protestants whoe were either defenders of their liberty or reuengers of intollerable iniarie It is a pleasant iest with Frarine when he saith their gospel is both negatiue destructiue of al goodnes As if it were not as easy for vs to say that papistrie is both affirmatiue extructtiue of al wickednes God be thanked we affirme al that the holy scripture affirmeth the rest we are bolde to denie we are willing to build both spiritually and bodilie whatsoeuer appertaineth to the glorie of God and the pro