orphanorum Tu leuamen oppressorum Medicamen infirmorum Omnibus es omnia That is to say Thou blessed Virgin Marie art the infallible l DVR Saint Paul calleth the Thessalonians his hope 1. Thess 2.19 WHIT. pag. 796. But hee neuer put his trust in nor called vpon them as you doe the Virgin Marie hee called them his hope because he receiued great hope and ioy by his labours in their conuersion You make the Virgin an instrument of our saluation and therefore you trust in her but the Scriptures teach euery where to trust in God and Christ only As Psal 71.3 Ier. 17.5.7 1. Tim. 1.1 and 1. Pet. 1.21 hope of such as are in miserie the true mother of Orphanes Thou art the consolation of such as be oppressed the medicine of such as bee diseased Thou art all m DVR The sentence of the Catholike Church hath no vvhere alloued this but if it had it might be conueniently defended WHIT pag. 797. Duraeus can conueniently expound that which most absurdly taketh the office of reâ—eÌ„ption froÌ„ Christ and giueth it to the Virgin Mary in all to all men or in all necessities and other such like abominable speeches and full of strange blasphemie If happily you thinke our reproouing of these things be but some fighting with a shadow then doe you no more respect the glorie of God than the shadow of an Asse The second error in disputation wherewith you charge vs Logomachia is that wee often vse Logomachia which is when the sense is neglected and men contend about the word I vnderstand it well but which bee those our faults committed in this kinde Can you finde vs say they the Masse or Purgatorie in the Scriptures And is not this our demaund reasonable For where should these be found rather than in the Scriptures There was nothing wont to be accounted more holy than the Masse and there could nothing be inuented more gainfull than Purgatorie that neither of these now at last should be found in the Scriptures certainly it may well seeme a very strange and vnreasonable thing Belike then say you Trinitas the Trinitie Homousios coessentiall Persona a person are no where in the Bible because these very termes are not to be found there Neither say we so Campian nor will it follow at all hereupon and these things be altogether vnequally compared For albeit these very termes are not in Scriptures Epiphan contra Semiarian l. 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet the matter it selfe and the sense as Epiphanius writeth commeth to hand in all places and is easily euery where to bee found But your n DVR Did you neuer reade these vvords of Christ in his last Supper this is my body WHIT. pag. 799. Yea but Christ ordeined then a SacrameÌ„t not a sacrifice he offered himselfe a sacrifice only once vpon the Crosse Heb 9 10. not in his last Supper except you will say he died then also vvhich he must haue done to make it a sacrifice but he was then aliue it were most absurd to say he was aliue and dead at one time which he needs must be both then and in al your Masses if there be any sacrifice in the Masse at all Againe externall sacrifices as you say your Masse is are subiect to the sight outward senses but no man euer saw Christ to be sacrificed either in the Supper or in the Masse Therefore there is none neither in the one nor in the other DVR Jt vvas a sacrifice for Christ vvas really conteined vnder those former of bread and vvine and so the Masse is novv an vnbloodie sacrifice WHIT. pag. 801. You cannot prooue him to be so present there as you teach by no Scripture and if he were yet that was not therefore a sacrifice except you will haue his reall being in the Virgins wombe also to be a sacrifice in which he was conteined As for your vnbloody propitiatorie sacrifice first it is absurd for to sacrifice killeth a bodie but your Transubstantiation maketh a bodie secondly it hath no word of God for it thirdly it is needlesse Christs sacrifice being perfect fourthly Christ ordained that supper in memorie of his sacrifice not to be it selfe a sacrifice WHIT. pag. â—03 DVR Many of the Fathers call the Eucharist by the name of sacrifice WHIT. pag 805. Not because it is that same which Christ offered as you teach but because it is a memoriall and Sacrament of it DVR Purgatorie is most plainely prooued by the fact of Iudas Machabaeus in the second booke and 12. chapter WHIT. pag. 806. Those bookes are not Canonicall Scripture neither doth that act prooue a Purgatorie by your owne doctrine who say those that die in deadly sinne as those did there mentioned goe to hell and not to Purgatorie Masse and Purgatorie are not in this manner in the Scriptures seeing neither the names nor the things themselues any where do appeare yea they are plainly against the Scriptures For what else is either the Masse than as * Bustum coenae Dominica an empty sepulchre where is onely the title of the Lords Supper or what is Purgatorie more than a shamelesse merchandise of soules and an intolerable contempt against the blood of Christ Wherefore this is not a trisling contention about words but a most waightie one about matters of moment except peraduenture you make account of the Masse and Purgatorie not to bee matters of moment but words of Arte only As for the name o DVR The office of a Presbyter or Elder in the Gospell is the same that the Priests office vvas in the Lavve WHIT. pag. 807. It is not so for if the office did remaine why should the name be changed for Elders are neuer called Priests in the new Testament And there be ruling Elders in the Church which labour not in the Ministerie of the word and Sacraments as the Priests did Presbyter and Sacrament it is appropriated from the common signification to some certaine and particular things as likewise many other names are to wit Ecclesia the Church Episcopus a Bishop Apostolus an Apostle Diaâ—onus a Deacon and these names wee willingly vse but so that wee carefully shunne their impertinent significations Neither was that indeede sufficient cause why you should register Matrimonie in the catalogue of Sacraments because S. Paul wrote thus Sacramentum hoc magnum Eph. 5. This is a great mysterie For in that place Sacramentum is vsed in a large signification for any mysterie not for that ceremony which may properly be called a Sacrament As for that counsell of Thomas Aquinas we doe very well approue it The third head Homonymia or kinde of deceitfull disputation which you say we vsually erre in is Homonymia equiuocation or a mistaking the sense of words whereof you propound two examples For say you we both confound the order of Priests because S. Iohn hath tearmed vs all Priests and also abolish choice of
great a good that the Apostle Peter what time he would not haue had it done is termed Satan by him who was willing to be slaine And elsewhere God saith he hardened Pharao by iust iudgement De Grat. lib. arbit cap. 23. and Pharao hardened himselfe by his owne free will And that you may plainely perceiue there is nothing taught by vs touching the will of God but that which the Church of Christ long since hath taught I will annexe some other sentences which the same Augustine hath written in another place Great are saith he the works of the Lord distinguished into all his wils Enchirid. ad Laurent cap. 100. so as after a wonderfull and vnutterable manner that is not done without his will which also is not done against his will because it should not be done if he did not suffer it neither certainely doth he suffer it vnwilling but willing And againe God worketh in the hearts of men to incline their wils whither so euer hee will De Grat. lib. arbit ca. 21. whether to good according to his mercie or vnto euill according to their merits And that certainely in his iudgement sometime open sometime secret but alwaies iust I can vse infinite testimonies in this matter but I thinke not very needfull I will raise vp out of your owne schoole Hugo de Sancto victore who shall most clearely approue our opinion with his owne words For thus he writeth De Sacra part 2. c. 14. His will is neuer idle so as that is not done which he willeth neither in a word can any thing bee done at any time which hee willeth not And a little after Cap. 15. The will of God is euer fulfilled and wicked men are not therefore excused because the will of God is performed in them and by them for that they are not directed by their owne will to fulfill the will of God but by his secret prouidence Doe you perceiue at length Campian that no new paradoxe is defended in our Churches which was not both receiued in times past in the Churches of Christ and is also defended as the truth it selfe For that which you adde As the calling of Paul so also Dauids adulterie and Iudas his treacherie were the proper worke of God from whence you drew these positions I know not These works of God not one of our writers doe so compare together as that wee should say that God wrought alike in Dauid and Iudas to the committing of hainous offences as he did in Paul for his effectuall conuersion Indeed the Lord wrought both in this and in them but not after one and the like manner he did inspire inwardly the heart of Paul by his spirit and endued his minde with true faith which he lacked before but to Dauid and Iudas hee did cast in no new kinde of impietie or inclination of will nor did hee stirre vp new motions vnto sinning God forbid that any ChristiaÌ„ should so much as thinke it but they running of their owne accord and stirred vp by and of themselues be did so hold and bend that they vnwitting to themselues and not imagining any such thing did execute Gods decree For by this adulterie of Dauid the Lord did both chastice Dauid in that he did punish sinne with sinne as hee is wont and also hee made a way open for his purposes in time succeeding Like hereunto is that of Absalom he defiled Dauids Concubines 2. Sam. 17.22 the hâ—inousnes of which offence cannot bee vttered yet this way the Lord had decreed to take punishment of Dauid But the treacherie of Iudas if you respect the couetousnes and perfidiousnes of the man did so displease God that neuer any thing did offend him more and yet the Lord vsed both Iudas treacherie and the Priests crueltie for the finishing of that worke of our sâ—luation and he would haue these wretched instruments to effect that diuine worke Therefore the Apostles doe testifie that all these did nothing else but those things which the hand and counsaile of the Lord did decree to bee done Act. 4.28 And yet there is not here any monstrous thing wherof either Philip Melanchton or any other ought to bee ashamed vnlesse perhaps the holy doctrine of the Scripture seeme monstrous to you As for that that you demaund with what minde Luther did take away this verse from the Church prayers O holy Trinitie one God haue mercie vpon vs certeinly you are too suspitious If Luther did think erroneously touching the Trinitie conuince him his bookes are in mens hands and they are read by you as it seemeth very diligently Alleage if you can any one word iniurious either to the Trinitie or Vnitie For if out of all his writings which are innumerable you can draw no probable inkling of this suspition why doe you make question about one verse taken away from the Church prayers which whether it bee taken away or no I know not and though it bee taken away yet how appeares it that it was taken away by him But Luthers condition is very hard who must stand vnto both what hee hath written and what hee hath not written And these are those our paradoxes concerning God which you could carpe at in the bookes of all our writers which haue come foorth in a manner infinitely The matter is safe and sound the aduersarie hath viewed ouer all of them and yet hath found nothing By and by you proceede to the person of Christ Of Christ. and you demand what these words of Caluin meane Christ iâ— the sonne of God God of God God of himselfe What reprooue you here Campian what that hee said Christ is the Sonne of God or for that hee termed him God of God or else that he affirmeth him to be God of himselfe But which of these assertions is it that is not holy not granted not agreeable to the Catholike faith which if you deny you doe not conuince any Paradox of ours but you bewray your owne heresie But this is the point vnlesse I be deceiued wherin you haue found I know not what knot as it were in a rush The Nicene Fathers doe professe Christ to bee God of God to the end they may teach that the Son is of the same substance with the Father This saying some afterward catcht at so as that they did maintaine that Christ is not God by himselfe and of himselfe but that hee receiued it of his Father wherein they quite tooke away the Diuinity of Christ For vnlesse he be God of himselfe he cannot be God at all For that hee may be God hee must needs be God of himselfe Wherefore howsoeuer those Fathers did say that Christ is God of God yes Calain maintaineth that it is most firmely to be beleeued that Christ hath this to be God of himself vnlesse we will rob Christ of his Diuinity To be the Sonne he receiued that indeed of the Father for he is the Son
me to vtter in preaching And knowing the necessitie of preaching and feeling the greatnes of the burthen as S. Paul said Who is sufficient for these things 1. Cor. 2.16 I finde all my priuate studies little enough for my publike Ministerie that the more I attaine vnto the more I may communicate to others As the Preacher saith Eccles 12.9 The more wise the Preacher was the more he taught the people knowledge and caused them to heare and searched foorth and prepared many parables I am not of their mindes who think that a man may gather Manna enough vpon the day before the Sabbath to serue his familie or charge vpon the Sabbath it self And though I know mē haue their seuerall gifts some men able to do that in an houre which another cannot doe in three yet I know and acknowledge my owne strength and abilitie to bee such as that I must haue much more time than many others which both hath made me vnwilling and will so make me still to distract my self or intangle my minde with any other thing than with my ordinarie Ministerie I haue often thought of Augustines obseruation that our Sauiour Christ preached much De consens◠Euangelist lib. 1. cap. 7. but wrote nothing and thence haue imputed it a fault to those who haue the roome of Christ which are giuen to write much and preach little specially when their places in the Church requires preaching more than writing I know well that writing is and hath bin very profitable to the Church yet I find a corruption in our times that maketh it lesse profitable because I see men buy bookes more for the Author than the matter and delite more to haue such a booke in their houses than by diligent reading to haue it either in their heads or hearts by which they are neither able to instruct in the truth and informe in their duties such as belong to them neither to defend the truth of God when they come in places where they meet with such as resist the truth as Iannes and Iambres did Moses 2. Tim. 3.8 Atheists and Papists I meane and such like men of corrupt mindes reprobate concerning the faith And so their bookes are a iudgement to condemne them for vaine foolish men according to that of Salomon Prou. 17.16 Wherefore is there a price in the hand of the foole to get wisedome and he hath no heart But beloued let it not be so with you or so no more the times are dangerous there are many deceiuers abroad and many daily deceiued for that they haue had a price and opportunitie all these golden and happie daies of the Gospell to haue got wisedome but haue no hearts but only for wealth honour pleasure and such like And if you haue neglected the opportunitie with them thinke it high time to lay hold of it lest it be too late when the fit occasion is altogether past and labour and pray for hearts to seeke Wisedome while she cries in the streetes and seekes for you lest you seek her when she will not bee found And the rather because when there is no loue of truth 2. Thess 2.11.12 God sends strong delusions that men should beleeue lies That all they might be damned that beleeue not the truth but haue pleasure in vnrighteousnes It is the wisdome of men when they heare that many false coyners are abroad to looke well what siluer or gold they receiue and if they haue not either the scales and weights or the touchstone of the Goldsmith or the skill to vse them to trie that they receiue they will aske and being men that haue much to receiue and their state stands vpon it they will both haue them and learne the skill to vse them Should it not bee so with you shall these be wiser in their generation than the children of light or will you bee wiser for the world than for heauen If you loue heauen I say not as you ought but euen in any sort as you loue the world and haue in any measure the like care for your spirituall estate as you haue for the temporall in these dangerous times get to you the ballance of the Sanctuarie not to haue it in your houses only but in your hearts and memories The exhortation of Chrysostome is not so necessarie for these times Commentar in Coloss 3.16 Prouide for your selues Bibles for most haue them in their hands and houses But that hee saith in another place is fitter for our times Hom. 3. de Laza. When you are at home giue your selues to a continuall reading of the holy Scriptures A thing verely much neglected of most in our times to whom his complaint will well agree Which of our people goe about any thing worthie the name of a Christian Hom. 13. in Joan. who searcheth out the sense of the Scriptures vndoubtedly none but the Chesse-board and dice-play we finde often and euery where but their bookes are seldome in hand For your bookes are seldome in hand but when you goe to Church they lie in your houses couered with dust and as it were spread ouer with spiders webbes as if it seemed you durst not touch them when the Tables are kept cleane with vse and Cards worne blacke with continuall play But beloued these things should not be so if either you regard the commandement of Christ Iob. 5.39 Search the Scriptures which is as absolute and generall as that Commandement Thou shalt not commit adulterie or steale or if you reuerence the counsell of the Apostle which is as much as a commandement Let the word of God dwell plentifully in you in all wisedome Coloss 3.16 As good schollers therefore in the schoole of Christ giue obedience to these things and vse a continuall and constant reading of the word at least euery day some part of it which because it is obscure not in it selfe but by the weaknes of mans vnderstanding as men doe to weake eyes applie some holesome salue not to make the light more perspicuous but the eyes more able so vse the helpe of some other writers by which you may more profitably reade it and enable your selues the better to conceiue of it and to know how to applie to euery occurrence the things which are there set downe in their most excellent and wise order though somewhat hidden and infolded to those who haue not their senses as they ought exercised therein And if any desire some direction for himselfe in studying both the Scriptures and other bookes which may helpe for the vnderstanding of them and their better instruction in the matters of saluation I woul intreate them first to heare the ancient and worthie Father and Elder of the ancient Romish Church when as though not without some blemishes Note that it is neither new nor hereticall nor dangerous for the common people to read the scripture and that by the iudgement of the Church of Rome in
her purer times Hieron ad Laetam de institut siliae epist. 7. it held the foundation which now it hath quite ouerthrowne Hierome I meane whose counsell I would make the ground of my aduice fitting our times He directing Lata for the education of her daughter for this point aduiseth thus Let her first reade the Psalmes that by such heauenly hymnes she may withdraw her selfe from vaine delites Then the Prouerbes of Salomon that thence she may haue excellent instructions for the gouernment of her life Then Ecclesiastes that by it she may learne to conteÌ„ne al worldly things After these the booke of Iob that she may follow the examples of vertue and patience let her proceed to the Gospels and neuer lay them out of her hands the Acts and the Epistles of the Apostles let her studiously reade and make them the delite of her heart And when she hath furnished the storehouse of her soule with these riches let her heedfully reade the Prophets the fiue bookes of Moses the bookes of the Kings and Chronicles and the small volumes of Ezra and Hester And in the last place the Song of Songs lest if she reade it first of all she may happily be wounded while she is not able to vnderstand the spirituall marriage Song set out vnder carnall words But let her take heed of all the bookes of Apocrypha and if at any time she will reade them not for the truth of doctrine but for the reuerent resemblance they may seeme to haue with the holy Scriptures let her take this instruction withal that they were not written by those whose names they carrie and that in them also there are many corrupt things scattered here and there and therefore it is a speciall point of wisedome to cull out the gold from the drosse Let her haue with her the bookes of Cyprian let her runne ouer the Epistles of Athanasius and bookes of Hilarie without feare of error Let her delite in their writings and â—its in whose books is deliuered the sound doctrine of faith Other mens workes let her so reade that she may rather censure them than be tied to follow them Thus farre Hierome Which direction of his as touching the forepart of it the Scriptures and Apocrypha if any think they could better aduise let them for me enioy their conceit vnder their correction I will subscribe fully to it In the latter part because he speaketh of Authors not in our naturall tongue in stead of them I would commend these vnto you written originally in our owne tongue For matter of controuersie Doctor Bilson now Lord Bishop of Winchester his true defence betweene Christian subiection and vnchristian rebellion against the Iesuites Doctor Fulke his answere to the Rhemist Testament and diuers other of his workes and Doctor Willets Synopsis For matter of conscience the Workes of Master Greenham and Master Rogers For matter both of conscience and soundnes of faith the Workes of Master Perkins Many other particular Treatises of speciall things there are written by good and learned men which you may reade as occasion may offer it and the aduice of discreete men may encourage you Now with the bookes of the first kinde would I commend this particular book which at the commanding request of an honorable person I haue both reduced into one booke written by seuerall Authors in seuerall Treatises and translated into English for your benefit In which the greatest part of the controuersies betwixt vs and the Church of Rome you shall finde in some part touched The state of the question plainly laid downe and some manifest short and pithie answere or resolution of it Two Papists are the opponents Campian an Englishman and Duraeus a Scot one Englishman and a famous light of our Church hath answered them both The answere to the first was more sparing because the aduersaries obiections were either slender or sleightly vrged But there is so full a supplie made thereof by the answere to the second that he had little stomacke or abilitie to make a reioynder The whole worke I assure you if you dare take my iudgement will be very profitable if so be you will be attentiue diligent readers For besides that good which is in it self it will be a notable introduction to all other Treatises of controuersies that with more ease and facilitie you may reade them and with more profit be conuersant in them The text as I may so call it is Campians and Doctor Whitakers the marginall notes are composed of Duraeus his obiections in defence of Campian and the Romish errors and the replie of Doctor Whitakers in defence of the truth and his owne answere Duraeus is noted thus DVR Doctor Whitakers thus WHIT. I haue as fitly as I could placed euery obiection with his answere neere vnto that which is excepted against and if any thing happen by the ouersight of the Printer or length of the note to bee not so aptly placed take a little paines to looke ouer the precedent and subsequent pages I confesse I haue in Duraeus omitted many things because they either were not pertinent for the defence of Campian or but the multiplication of many testimonies out of the Fathers which haue their full answere in the generall or answered in some other place before The number in euery answere noteth the page where it is to be found in Doctor Whitakers his replie that any man may turne and reade the answere at large if he vnderstand the tongue and receiue more contentment Yet this know there are seueral impressions of the bookes which also differ that which I followed was imprinted anno 1583. For the most part I haue onely in quotations set downe the booke chapter and verse both of the Scriptures and Fathers and seldome recited the whole words because the margent would not beare it but when the substance of the answere consisted in theÌ„ and therfore you must both helpe me your selues in vsing your Bibles to peruse the places The superiours directing you to what place euery note belongs are the letters of the Alphabet If there be sometimes a note and no superiour you must conceiue it belongs vnto the former note where the superiour is And if the number be somtimes omitted you must so vnderstand that the answere is in the second page where the former is noted The obiection you shall often finde to haue diuers parts and particulars in it and so also the answere semblably Therefore you must take paines for your profit to compare one thing with another and one part with another If you follow these directions you shall reade the whole with no small fruit to your selues And yet to make it more profitable vnto you I haue in reading the sheetes ouer as they were printed gathered the summe of euery answere and the chiefe matter in it not in any order I coÌ„fesse which had bin a thing impossible because no method is in it not from any error of the Answerer
but because he was forced to follow a fellow that rode a wilde goose chase The benefit of which epitomie may be this If you reade the summe of euery answere before you reade each particular answer it will well prepare you to conceiue of the answere it selfe if after which I could wish also you would doe then it will present to you the whole as it were in a mappe When you haue read both and the whole booke if at any time you remember some thing you would see more particularly and can but tell or make some nie coniecture in what answere it is laid downe with reading of one page you may finde in what 〈◊〉 of the 〈…〉 be found Finally let it incourage you the â—â—ther to reade this Treatise because you shall finde in it whatsoeuer is by our late Papists in their Pâ—â—phlets and Treatises which they haue audaciously sent abroad in these few last yeeres when the lawes haue been laid asleepe and the iust seueritie of them greatly qualified I say whatsoeuer is in them either obiected against our Church and doctrine or spoken in their owne defence is here to be found and a solid answere giuen vnto them if any thing would giue them satisfaction If you bee but well exercised in this one booke out of it you may gather some smooth stones as out of a brooke by which though you should not be enabled to hold any long warre with a cunning Papist yet you may smite him in the forehead and fell him groueling to the earth 1. Sam. 17. as Dauid did the vncircumcised Philistine The Apostle exhorts that we earnestly contend for the maintenance of the faith Jude vers 3. which was once giuen vnto the Saints A naked and vnarmed man may well contend but shall neuer be able to maintaine any thing committed to him but it will soone be taken from him so may I say for the truth it is not words but weapons and weight of diuine reason that must defend it therefore must euery Christian souldier that thinkes to haue the crowne take to him such armour as Gods Armourie will affoord him Now those weapons if so be you cannot fetch so readily in the word of truth it selfe because of your infirmitie they are here brought to your hand and you withall are led by the hand to the particular places where they are in the word it selfe Now the Lord of hosts strengthen you in the truth and arme you with his grace that you may be able to stand against all the enemies of your saluation 2. Tim. 4.7.8 and that you may fight a good fight and finish your course and keepe the faith that you may obtaine the crowne of righteousnes which the Lord the righteous Iudge will giue at the last day vnto all those that loue his appearing Yours euer in the Lord Richard Stock The summe of the answere to the first Reason which is holy Scripture 1 PApiste account themselues disarmed if they must fight onely with the scriptures Page 24. nota 2 Of the number of the Canonicall scriptures that Luther and Caluine and their followers haue put out none which antiquitie and the purest Churches haue receiued Page 26 3 Campian was an Apostata not Luther Page 26 4 Luther onely thought not basely of the Epistle of S. Iames but antiquitie also Page 27 5 All Protestants highly reuerence this Epistle of S. Iames. Page 28. 30 6 Luther neuer writ so contempteously of the Epistle of Saint Iames as Campian affirmes Page 29 7 S. Paul and the Fathers haue taught iustification by faith alone Page 30 8 The place of S. Iames expounded and prooued not to be contrary to the doctrine of iustification by faith onely Page 31 9 Not Protestants of late but the Fathers of old haue put out of the Canon Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of Machabees and diuers other bookes Page 32. 33 10 The Papists cannot defend the Articles of their religion by the Canonicall scriptures but are forced to flye to the Apochrypha Page 34 11 Duraeus contrary to the Councell of Trent denieth traditions to be of equall authority with the scripture Page 34 12 Protestants haue denied no one booke or word of any booke of Canonicall scriptures Page 35 13 Angels do defend the elect but their hirarchy and degrees are without warrant of the word and their worship flat against the word Page 35. 36 14 Man hath no frâ—â—will by nature Page 37 15 The bookes of the Machabees are reiected by diuers Fathers and the Laodicene Councell ibid. 16 Neither prayers to the dead nor for the dead are lawfull Page 38 17 Seâ—â—en bookes of the Apochrypha were put out of the Canon by Hierome a thousand yeares before Caluine was borne Page 39 18 The 3. and 4. bookes of Esdra sometime were highly accounted by the church of Rome Page 39 19 Protestants haue not cut out of the Canon sixe epistles of the new Testament but honour them much neither haue the Lutherans Page 40 20 Augustine and Hierome in their difference for the number of the Canonicall bookes reconciled Page 41. 42 21 Meliâ—o Bishop of Sardis though he put the booke of Wisdome in the Canon yet he excludeth all the rest Page 43 22 The Laodicene Councell forbiddeth the reading of those bookes which are without the Canon and alloweth only the reading of thâ—se which we put in the Canon of the old and new Testament 43.44 The Councell of Carthage allowed them only for manners nota for three hundred yeares these bookes were not in the Canon so confesseth Duraeus nota Page 43 23 The Councell of Carthage denied the Pope to be vniuersall Bishop Page 43 24 The Papists crueltie farre surpasseth the Protestants iust seueritie Page 45 25 The scriptures haue in themselues many proofes that they are the word of God but the certaine infallible and sauing assurance is from the spirit of God Page 46. 47 26 Campian scorneth the iudgement of the spirit in respect of the iudgement of the Church as if they were contrary Page 46. 48 27 The Church can make no writing Canonicall neither doth the authority of it depend on the Church It hath in it selfe his owne authority Page 48 28 Without the spirit a man may haue some knowledge of the scripture but no faith The testiments of the spirit as not 〈◊〉 confute others but confirms our selues Page 45. nota 29 The Lutherans did not onely surde somewhat lacking in the Apocalyps but ouen antiquitie receiued it not you reâ—ected it Page 50 30 Luther preferreth the Gospell of S. Iohn and Paules Epistles before the other Gospels and why Page 50. 51 31 What a Gospell is and who especially is an Euangelist Page 51 32 Campian slandereth Luther as touching S. Lukes Gospell Page 52 33 Beza hath no more offended in charging S. Luke with a solecisme then Hierome did in charging S. Paul Page 53 34 The words of institution in the Supper of the Lord a little examined
we our selues do giue all diligence we can to attaine true sauing health to which seeing there is but one way and that plainely laid downe in the Scriptures we againe beseech you that renouncing all humane inuentions and forsaking those innumerable fictions of Poperie wherto for these few yeares past you haue bin addicted you would also with vs labour for that eternall saluation which the Scripture hath propounded to all Christians and to as many as are desirous of eternall life For what profiteth it to wish for saluation and miserablie to erre in the search of it Wherfore Campian we pray and beseech you to returne from these your wanderings and errors tending to death into the plaine and straight way of saluation For this know so long as you remaine a Iesuite you neither can be saued nor indeede can desire it And heere you say you are the briefer because you will deale with vs in a Treatise following Therefore now let vs heare your discourse REASONS OF CAMPIANS CHALLENGE RENDRED AND GIVEN TO THE Students of the English Vniuersities EDMVND CAMPIAN My principall reasons are ten 1. Holy Scriptures 2. True meaning of the holie Scriptures 3. Nature of the Church 4. Generall Councels 5. Fathers 6. Sure ground of the Fathers 7. Historie 8. Paradoxes of the Aduersaries 9. Sophismes of the Aduersaries 10. All manner of witnesses The first reason which is holy Scriptures WHereas there are many things which euidently open the Aduersaries mistrust in the cause yet nothing so much as the maiestie of Gods bookes by them most filthilie * It is false for we haue corrupted no part of the Bible corrupted For they who after that they haue reiected the voyces and testimonies of all other witnesses and are neuerthelesse driuen to so narrow shifts that they cannot defend their cause to be good except they lay violent hands vpon the holy Scriptures also assuredly shew themselues to be in great distresse and all other helps failing and fainting must now trie the last and vttermost shift What cause had the Manachies to cancel a Aug. lib. 28. contra Faust cap. 2 de vtilit cre c. 3. S. Matthewes Gospell and the Acts of the Apostles Desperation for they were tormented with these bookes both because they had denied Christ to be b Matth. 1. borne of a Virgin and also had falsely affirmed that then the holy c Act. 2. Ghost came first downe from heauen amongst Christians when their d Manes Paraclete that most wicked Persian leapt out What made the e Jren. lib. 1. cap. 26. Ebionits to abandon all S. Paules Epistles Deâ—peration for so long as these kept their authoritie Circumcision is abolished which they had brought backe againe What enforced f Praefat in Epist Iac. vide etiam lib. de capt Babyl centur 2. Luther that most wicked Apostata to call the Epistle of S. Iames * This is most false for Luther greatly approueth of this Epistle neither euer did he call it a contentious swelling barren or strawne Epistle contentious proud barren rushy and iudge it to be vnworthy an Apostolike spirit Desperation g Iaco. ca. 2. For by this Epistle that miserable caitife affirming our iustification to be by faith * This is false for the place maketh nothing at all against Iustification by faith only only is vtterly confuted coÌ„founded what incensed h Bibl. Geneu Luthers whelpes on a suddaine to put out of the * It is false thâ—se bookes were neuer accounted part of the true Canon true Canon of Scripture Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of the Macchabees in despight of them many other i Of the old Testament bookes vnto which they picked the like quarrell Desperation for by these heauenly k Tob. 12. Eccles 15. 1. Macha 12 1. Machab. 15. Oracles they be expresly conuinced as often as they dispute against the defence of Angels as often as they dispute against Free-will as often as they dispute against praying for the dead as often as they dispute against praying to Saints Is it so indeed Is there such frowardnes is there such presumption amongst meÌ„ when they had trodden vnder foot the authority of the Churches CouÌ„cels * Seas Fathers Martyrs Emperours People Lawes Vniuersities Histories all Monuments of Antiquitie holines had openly proclamed that they would haue all controuersies decided by the written word of God only would they then haue dismembred the very same word which only remained by cutting out of the whole body so many so good and so excellent partes therof For the Caluinists haue cut out of the old Testament l Baruch Tob. Iudith Sapient Eccles Macha dâ—o seauen whole bookes besides certaine other small peeces which I let passe vnspoken of The Lutherans likewise haue cut off S. Iames Epist for spight of it m Epistol ad Hebr. Epist Jud. Epist 2. Pet. Ep. 2 3. Iohannis it a censent Luth. in praefat Mag. Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap 4. Kem. in exam con Tri. Ses 4. De doct chr lib. 2. cap. 8. Ses 4. vide Mel. Can. lib. 2. de Loc. Theol. cap. 9.10.11 de praedest Sanct. cap. 14. fiue others which some where els also were once called in questioÌ„ To these also do the late Geneuans adde the booke of Hester a great part of the third chapter al the two last chapters of Daniel which the Anabaptists their school-fellowes had a little before coÌ„demned laughed to scorne But how much more modest lie delt S. Austine who making a Catologue of the books of holy Scriptures tooke for his rule neither the Hebrew Alphabet as the Iewes do nor yet his owne priuate spirit as Heretikes vse to do but that spirit wherewith Christ quickneth the whole body of his Church which Church being not Lady as Heretickes do cauil but only keeper of this gage hath by old * This is false for the Laodicene Councel doth so number the bookes of the Scriptures as we do and not as the Councell of Trent doth auncient Councels openly challenged this whole and entire treasure of the bookes of Scripture which the late CouÌ„cell of Trent also hath embraced The self-same S. Augustine intreating particularly of one parcell of Scripture could not perswade himselfe that the booke of Wisdome should by any mans rashnes or secret false suggestion be thrust out of the Canon of Scripture which euen in his time by iudgement of the Church processe of time testimonie af auncient writers and instruction of faithfull men had kept his authoritie as a sound and Canonicall booke what would he say if he were now liuing vpon the earth againe and should see the Lutherans and Caluinists to be Bible makers who with their sine and smooth stile haue raced both the old and new Testament and put out of the Canon of holy Scriptures not only the booke of Wisdome but many bookes more also so that
that which shall not be vttered out of their shops must by their brain-sicke decree be reiected as a thing most rude and loath some They that are driuen to this horrible and detestable shift though their Armes be blazed neuer so farre abroad by their owne disciples though they buy and selâ— benefices though in their Sermons they cry out against Catholikes though they procure them the sword racke and gallowes yet are they ouercome naught set by horrible in mens sight and quite ouerthrowne For as much as the taking vpon them the authoritie of Censorors and sitting as honorable Iudges do dash out at their pleasure such holy Scriptures as they found would not serue their turne is there any body though neuer so simple which can feare these subâ—tle sleights of the Aduersaries who assoone as they should enter within your assemiblie that are learned men and flie vnto such their vsuall snifts as it were vnto their familiar spirit should though not with reproach full words yet at the least with trampling of your feet be thrust out of your schooles I would demaund of them for example sake bâ— what authoritie they mayme and robbe the corpes of the Bible They answere they doe not cut out any true Canonicall Scriptures but cull out only such as are not Canonicall that haue been forsted into the Bible and are indeed but counterfeits Who shall be iudge the * Campian refuseth the holy Ghost as Iudge holy Ghost for this very answere doth o 1. Lib. Inst. cap. 7. Caluin giue thereby to escape the iudgement of the Church by whose authoritie all spirits are tried why then do some of you cut off certaine bookes and others of your crew allow the same seeing you all vaunt of the self-same spirit The Caeluinists spirit alloweth of six Epistles which the Lutheran spirit doth dâ—sallow and yet both of you as you say haue the holie spirit The p Xistus Sen. lib. 7. Anabaptists doe call the historie of Iob a fable interlaced with tragicall and Comicall meeters how know they that by the spirit that instructeth them q Praefat. in Cant. Castalio that lecherous varlet made no more account of that mysticall booke of Salomon commonly called Cantica canticorum which the Catholikes do as highly esteeme as a Paradise of the soul as that heauenly food Manna which was laid vp and kept in the tabernacle and as delicate dainties in Christ then he did of a * This is falsoe for Castalio in his preface hath no such word baudie song and ribaudous taâ—be of a Courtly wayting mayd with her louer where had he this of the spirit In the Apocalyps of r Epist. ad Paul S. Iohn euery little title whereof S. Hierome affirmeth to containe some high and notable mysterie yet neuertheles these Å¿ Praef. in Apoc. seuere Iudges Luther Brentius and Kemnitius find I know not what lacking shooting all at this marke that the booke might be defaced and be of no authoritie whom did they aske the spirit * This is most false reade the answere to it Luther vpon a prepostorous zeale casteth a bone amongst the g Praefat. in nouum Test. foure Euangelists and preferring S. Paules Epistles farre before the three former Gospels in the end concludeth that the one only Gospell of S. Iohn is from henceforth to be taken for the gay for the true and the principall Gospell as one that asmuch as in him lay would gladly haue made the Apostles also partakers of his brawling in religious matters who was his Tutor the spirit Besides this that peeuish u Ser. de Pharis Publican Fryer was so malapert as to endeuor to make * This is false for Luther neuer spake saucily of S. Luke S. Lukes Gospell to be suspected to be written in a wanton style because therein good workes are often commended vnto vs whom hath he consulted with the spirit Theodorus Beza was so bold as to reprehend that mysticall word taken out of the 22. Chapter x Luc. C. 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of S. Luke Hic est Calix nouum Testamentum in sanguine meo qui calix pro vobis fundetur This is the Cup of the new Testament in my blood which Cup shall be shâ—dde for you as very corrupt and euilly placed there because this sentence cannot admit any interpretation but of the * This is false for by no meanes can he endure thiâ— exposition wine of the Cup changed into the very true blood of Christ where learned he that of the spirit Finally when euery man committeth euery thing to his priuate spirit they belie the name of the holy Ghost most blasphemously Do not these fellowes which deale thus bewray themselues and shew what they are are they not easily confuted are they not in the assemblie of such men as you of both the Vniuersities be quickly perceiued and soone represt Ought I to feare disputations with these in defence of the Catholike faith who with much falshood haue handled the very word not of man but of God himselfe Here I passe ouer such things as they haue depraued in their false translations though there be intolerable matters wherewith I may well charge them I am very loath to take away any part of the matter either from my old Colledge fellow Master Gregory Martin a man of excellent great knowledge in the three tongues y Latin Greeke and Hebrew which will handle this matter farre more learnedly and copiously then I can or from some others which as I vnderstand haue already vndertaken this matter The matter that I now write of is farre more heynous and horrible There were lately discouered certaine pettie Doctors that vpon a drunken pange laid violent hands vpon the diuine Scriptures and haue condemned them as corrupted as maymed as falsified as craftily foisted in in sundrie places some parts thereof they haue corrected some they haue raced and some they haue quite pulled out And lastly they haue changed as the fortresse of this authenticall writing of Gods owne hand wherewith before it was fenced vnto certaine Lutherane spirits as though it were into vaine bulwarkes of their owne imaginations or into bare painted walles least peraduenture they should haue bin mum for want of matter when they should stumble at such places of Scripture as are plaine against their heresies Of which neuerthelesse they could no sooner shift their hands then suppe vp hot coales or eate hard stones Then this first reason seemed to me vrgent and iust which when it had euidently laid before mine eyes that the Aduersaries side was but counterfeited and feeble truely it incouraged me much being both a Christian and also somewhat beaten in this kind of studie in defence of the euerlasting Kings Charter to encounter with the remnaunts of these discomfited enemies WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the first Reason THat Campian which made you most cheerefull in the cause you haue vndertaken and
boulder then a Iesuite being newlie come out of your den or cabbine where you haue lurked these diuers yeeres to proclame warre against vs all and challenge to the combate the most valiant of vs that you saie was the euident apprehension of our distrust and diffidence in our cause But what manhood is this for so valourous a man as you make shew to be to prouoke and with sharpe warre to pursue so timerous aduersaries who are readie to betake themselues to their heeles not daring to stand to it but distrusting their owne strength But tell vs in what things our distrust hath bin so sensible There are many things say you which euidently bewray the aduersaries mistrust in the cause Verelie if boldnes in oppugning and withstanding Religion were of as great force as vsually it is in making of warre and scaling the enemies walles and racing his townes we might well feare your furious and desperate attempts for whatsoeuer could be compassed by rage furie and crueltie that hath not in this combate and contention been wanting But such weapons cannot dare religion and truth neither can they displace it Let it be graunted we haue not been so cheerefull and readie in the defence of a good cause as we ought and as the cause it selfe well deserued neither haue we put to flight your forces so soone as we ought to haue vanquished theÌ„ yet we neuer gaue ground we neuer turned our backs vpon you neither euer sled out of the field a DVR You boats much of your valour but vvhether thinke you is he valorous or fearefull vvho dare not othervvise buckle vvith his aduersarie but vpon condition he may forbid him what weapons he list and choose for himselfe vvhat he list Now here is your valour you forbid vs the vveapons of the Church Councels Fathers You only leaue vs the weapons of the Scriptures WH Pag. 4. He that will ouercome in this cause must onely vse those weapons which are allowed in this kind of sight For it is not lawfull heere as in warre to take any weapon by which you can wound your enemie But weapons must be fetched out of the armorie of the Scriptures and the spirit of God or else there vvill be no foyling of an aduersary And this is that which the Scriptures doe warrant and Constantine commanded the Fathers of the Nicene Councel to vse against the Arrians and to end controuersies the bookes of the Euangelists and Apostles and the oracles of the old Prophets Theodoret. lib. 2. cap. 6. And the like teacheth Hillarie de Trinit lib. 7. August Epist. 3. and contr liter Petil. Donat. lib. 3. cap. 6. and in diuers other places Why doe you then repoue this thing in vs Tell me vvhose cause thinke you is best vvhether ours vvho are content vvith the Sâ—riptures alone and being armed vvith them can defend our ovvne and refel others or yours vvhich in no case can be safe if the cause must be tried by the Scripture only Therefore at the fiâ—st you are forced to confesse that you must come into the field vnarmed and naked if no vveapons vvill be afforded you besides the Scriptures For tell vs Campian if you can and remember the bypast times Did we euer cuÌ„ningly auoid any disputation did we euer refuse any combate did we euer shift off any of your offers and challenges But how often haue we publikely entred the combate with you how often haue we refuted your oft iterated Sophistications what writing of yours is yet vnanswered by vs or what course of disputation haue we not yeelded to Are not all those disputations held at Wittenberge Ratesbone Augusta Spire Wormes Bearne Possia London Cambridge Oxford most plentifull and pregnant witnesses with what spirits with what learning with what truth we defended our Religion what shew or signe of feare or diffidence found you amongst vs nay rather how true and singular confidence did there appeare in vs you it is and not we when it comes to a trial indeed that begins to sweat chaunge countenance tremble euery ioynt of you and bewray your deepe distrust and the naughtines of your cause Wherefore Campian take it from me if you thinke our distrustfulnes will helpe you any thing you much deceiue your selfe for if we haue with courage stood against your predecessors so far surpassing you we will not yeeld a haire to you nor feare your manner of conflict being so childish in the iudgement of all men But this diffidence you so cast in our dish tell vs what it is and how it appeares so clearely Forsooth we distrust our hold in the Scriptures and the maiestie of Gods bookes we haue most filthilie corrupted This indeed is a very great crimination you obiect to vs and an vndoubted proofe of our distrust for they who are not able to maintaine the Religion they professe vnlesse they lay violent hands vpon the Scriptures and impeach the sacred authoritie of those heauenly bookes the cause on their side must be very naught and desperate indeed Therfore I graunt vnto you that it was very fearefull desperation which made the Manachies renounce the old Testament wholy and cancell part of the new the same also made Ebion reiect all Paules Epistles and other heretikes to do so too for there was nothing fitter for them to vphold those their monstrous opinions then by denying those bookes of holy Scripture But I pray you Campian let vs see how these things make for your purpose or what it is wherein we are so like those forenamed Heretikes Me thinkes it little beseemeth your learning and eloquence to slaunder vs and to pinne vpon our sleeues such odious crimes of auncient heretikes so vndeseruedly If we haue shaken hands with the Manachees if with the Ebionits tell vs wherein But if we are culpable of no such thing the Lord shall iudge your outragious and bold slaunders and maintaine our vprightnes and innocency For who euer thought and spoke more honorably reuerently and with more due regard of the Scriptures then we who haue receiued and imbraced all Scripture giuen by inspiration as the very voice of God himself holding it for the only mysterie of our faith and religion and so resting in it as that we desire no other helpe as necessary to saluation which if we had not with more diligence and deuotion defended then you euer did long ere this the glorie of it had perished and it had bin counted as a dead letter For what haue we done for these many yeeres with more endeuour and diligence then maintaine the maiesty and excellencie of the Scriptures which you haue so vnworthily violated And yet you blush not to match vs with the Manachees and Ebionits who haue violently laid most impure and villanous hands vpon those sacred bookes But say you Luther that most wicked Apostata called the Epistle of S. Iames a contentious swelling barren and strawen Epistle and iudged it vnworthy the spirit of an Apostle still
Therefore you see there is no reason why for this cause Luther should either find fault with or feare the Epistle of S. Iames. And thus Augustine hath reconciled these two Apostles Iames and Paul that you may see that we are not broachers of any Noueltie Wherefore saith m DVR Augustine maketh nothing for you but against you WHIT. pag. 50. Augustinâ— affirmâ—th directly that S. Iames speaketh of a vaine and fayned faith which is as much as we here produce him for Augustine Aug. quaesâ— 85 quaeâ—t 76. the iudgements of the two Apostles S. Paul S. Iames are not contrarie each to other when the one saith a man is iustified by faith without workes and the other saith that it is a vaine faith which is without workes because S. Paul speakâ—th of workes which goe before faith Saint Iames of workes which follow faith at S. Paul himselfe sheweth in many places Therefore the Apostle S. Iames would not neither ought to detract any thing from the doctrine of iustification which Luther learned from S. Paul Yea all Papists and Iesuits shall sooner be torne asunder then this iudgement of Luther touching faith alone shall either quaile or be ouerthrowne From Luther you turne the edge of your speech to the whelpes of Luther for so you as an vncleane dogge terme men famous and flourishing with all good qualities But why you should so call them I well conceiue not vnlesse it be for that they neuer cease barking against your Bishops and Monkes and other Church robbers like your selfe But let vs heare what heynous thing those whelpes haue committed They haue on a suddaine put out of the true Canon of the Scripture Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of the Macchabees and many other bookes Say you of a suddaine Campian Is it true indeed that you are such a stranger in the writings of the auncient Fathers that you know not that long agoe these bookes were raced out of the Canon Looke I pray you into Hierome and out of him call to mind what antiquitie hath done That we may know saith n DVR Hierome saith that the former Churches did not receiue these bookes for Canonicall but denies them not to be Canonicall WHIT. pag. 52. Hicrome affirmeth not only that these bookes were not receiued of the fore-going Churches for Canonical but himself oâ—ten times denies them to be such and plainely cals them Apochâ—ypha bookes which he wâ—uld neuer haue done if the Church then had taken them for Canonicall yea and as Duraeus confesseth they were not so taken vntill â—lmoâ—t 70â— yeâ—res afâ—er Christ Hierome Hieron iâ— Prologo Galiato Whatsoeuer bookes are more then these they are to be accouÌ„ted among the Apochrypha Therefore Wisdome which commonly is called the Wisdome of Salomon and the booke of Iesus the sonne of Syrach and Iudith and Tobias and Pastor are not in the Canon Will you that are but a Frier put these bookes in the Canon which Hierome following the iudgement of the auncient Church and the truth it selfe denieth to be in the Canon marke well his owne words They are not in the Canon You say that we haue dashed them out and why should we not so doe For saith Hierome they are not in the Canon Desire you any further testimonies Epiphanius saith as much as Hierome who after he had recited diuers bookes which you say we haue put out of the Canon he thus writeth as Cornarius renders his words out of the Greeke These bookes verily are profitable and helpefull Epiphan in lib. de mensur Ponder but they are not reckoned in the number of those which are receiued Therefore they are not to be found in Aaron neither in the arke of the Couenant But see out of Hierome more manifest and pregnant things Hieron praefat in lib. Solomon As therfore the Church readeth the bookes of Iudith Tobias and Macchabees but accounteth them not Canonicall Scripture so also these two bookes he meaneth Wisdome and Ecclesiasticus it reades for edification of the common sort not for confirmation of any doctrine of the Church If Campian you be ignorant of these auncient testimonies you are but a young souldier in that kind of fight where you would be thought a well experienced Captaine but if you know them you are too vniust and iniurious vnto vs to obiect to vs I know not what desporation because wee admit not those bookes in the Canon of the Scripture which Antiquitie tels vs directly were neuer admitted neither are to be admitted Caietan in cap 24. Mattb. And verily Cardinall Caietan feares not to auouch that he that writ the booke of the Macchabees in a certeine prophesie of Daniels was a lyer but the holy Ghost was neuer wont to be deceiued in the interpreting of the Scripture Now wheras you imagine that we are conuinced by those Oracles as often as we dispute against the defence of Angels as often as we dispute against freewill as often as we dispute against praying to Saints You must fiâ—st before you can conuince vs proue that an argument will conclude necessarily out of those bookes to confirme the doctrine of the Church which Hierome demeth and you shall neuer be able to proue though you call all the Iesuits to a consultation And seeing you obiect desperation to vs see hoâ— you bewray your owne miserable â—esperation who cannot establish the Articles of your faith by the Canonicall Scriptures but you she to the Apocâ—ypha whose authority hath bin and for euer shall be doubted of in the Church The Lord hath commited his Will and Woâ—d to writing and commended it to his Church Those writings with all diligence and piety we receiue and reuerence we are content with them and we maintaine theiâ— sufficiency let goe then these questionable obscure and Apochrypha bookes and out of these contend with vs about religion But your religion long agoe hath passed beyond the bounds of the sacred Scripture and hath broken forth into many superstitions And hence it is that you doe the thing than which nothing can be more malapert and intolerable that is make of like authoritie with holy Scripture not only the Apochrypha bookes but euery o DVR Pag. 5â— â—â—e do not affâ—me Traditions to be of the same authority with the holy Scriptures WHIT. pag. 59 Though Duraeus heere denieth it yet the Councell of â—rent doth with the like holy affection and reuerence receiue and honor them as it doth the bookes oâ— the old and new Testamâ—nt See Decâ—et 1. Sess 4. vnwritten Tradition whersoeuer you come by them at the second or third hand But what do I telling you of these things who shamefully haue aduentured long since to violate and infâ—inge all the lawes both of God and man Take this from me if you can demonstrate that we haue condemned or reiected any one booke or any p DVR Pag. 64. You haue raced out these words out of S. Iohn Euery spirit
â—hich diuideth Christis not of God â—nd the historie of the adulterous woman Iohn 8.3 WHIT. pag. 65. We haue not raced it out of the â—cripture for it is not to be found in the moâ—t auncient Greek copies but as we read it 1. Ioh. 4.3 Cyprian also l. b. 2. cap. 8. testim contra Iudaeos so reads it and Augustine also ad Poâ—â—ent lib. 2. cap. 7. reads bo h. The history of the woman taken in adultery we race not out though some of the auncient haue done and Beza though he demurred about it veâ— neuer dashed it out part and portion of any booke which appeareth to haue bin written and confirmed by diuine authoritie I will neuer contend any longer but yeeld you the day and giue vp our weapons to you But if we haue euer most faithfully kept the whole corpes of the Scriptures and haue seuered the true bookes from false and haue defended the heauenly truth of God and preserued it vncorrupt why doe you poore silly Fâ—ier cry out of our desperation when your selfe is so farre plunged in desperation it selfe that there is no certainty of your saluatioÌ„ but by the deprauation and corruption of the holy Scriptures Now in that you affirme we are conuinced by those oracles As often as we dispute of the defence of Angels of freewill of praying for the dead and of praying to Saints they are thing which we haue discussed a thousand times and haue exactly determined them out of the true oracles of God The defence of Angels is taught vs in the Scripture where we are taught that God hath set his Angels ouer certaine people Dan. 10. 12. â—sal 91.11 places and men and of this in general we nothing doubt but that Angels haue that commission from the Lord that they must prouide for mens safety and saluation So that we deny them not some kind of ministration yea we attribute as much to them as the Lord hath taught vs we should And as for your q DVR Denys â—as S Pauls disciple and he hath manifested such mâ—â—teries WHIT. pag 68. Why did not S. Paul who waâ— rapt vp into the third heauen and saw such great things declare vnto vs the hierarchy of Angels did he burâ—e it in silence and his disciple tell it abroad But Denys was not the disciple of S. Paul as shall in another place be proued Hierarchie and manifold degrees of Angels we are willingly ignorant of them and no whit enuy your knowledge who haue had the reuelation of such great mysteries from your Denys who hath that I may vse the words of S. Paul aduaunced himselfe in those things whic he neuer saw But it is another patronage of Angels which you defend and hold that we ought to worship them and call vpon them which the Scripture in plaine words forbiddeth for r DVR Saint Paul forbids onely the offering vp of sacrifice to Angels and making of them nevv mediatâ—rs WHIT pag. 70. S. Paul foâ—bids all worshipping of them and so prayers a swell as sacrificeâ— they being a part of worship pag 71. Chrysost in Coloss 2. hom 7. in these words Occumen in Coloss 2. whom you alledge do not interpret them for you but for our opinion and as the truth is S. Paul condemnes Worshipping of Angels Coloss 2.18 And the Angell once and againe called S. Iohn from this kind of worship Å¿ DVR Saint Iohn did nâ—t worship the Angell but tooke the person of those who held that Angels were to be worshipped with sacrifices that he being forbidden they might be reproued in him WHIT. pag. 72. John did not as you say for neither offered he any sacrificeâ— neither affirmeth he that he dissembled but saith directly I fell downe to worship before him You on the coÌ„trary say he fell not downe to worship And your Thomas vpon Apoc. 19. saith S. John intended to worship with Dulia And vpon Apocal. 22. with Latria See thou doest it not Apoc. 19.10 22 9. Tob. 12. I am thy fellow seruant and one of thy brethren worship God As for Raphael in t DVR The auncient Fathers haue cited the booke of Toby aâ— Irene Cyprian Hâ—la WHIT. pag. 73. Then will it follovv thâ—t out of what booke soeuer the Fathers haue alledged any testimony it must be of the Canon â—o the 3 4. bookes of Esdra for Augustine Cyprian Ambrose cite them yet your Church reiecteth them DVR Hierome putteth them out of the Iewish Canon not of the Canon of the Church WHIT. pag. 74. It is strange those Fathers should make them Canonicall when iâ— Hieromes time long after them they were not no they were neither in the Canons of the Church nor of the Ievves Canon Hieron in Prasat in lib. Salom. DVR Your English Synagogues reade Toby very much WHIT. pag. 76. And other Apochryphaeâ— but accounteth them not in the Canon Tobie we passe not greatly neither do acknowledge those seauen Angels of whom he speaketh All that which was spoken of Raphael or which he speaketh of himself iâ— far differing from the holy Scriptures and it sauoureth strongly of superstition The place of Ecclesiasticus doth not much trouble me neither should I the sooner beleeue u DVR pag. 76. If you deâ—y free wilâ— to man by nature aâ—d that be cannot but sinne you establish the Fate of the Sâ—â—ickes WHIT. pag. 77. No more then vvhen vve say Angells necessarily doe good and diuels euer euill Againe vve deny not mans freewill to naturall and ciuill actions but to the duties of faith because till the sonne hath made him free he must needs be a seruant of sinne free will though he an hundred times should repeate that sentence Ecclesiast 15.17 Gen. 6.5 before man is life and death seeing that the x DVR The Scripture doth not teach that men haue lost free will by nature WHIT. p. 78. What then meaneth it 1. Cor. 2.14 If man cannot vnderstand the things of God and eternall life how can hee will them or doe them Phil. 2.13 The will and deede is wrought in vs by God Gen. 6.5 If hee can thinke nothing but euill where is free will Scripture teacheth that man lost his freedome by sinne the same thing teach the y DVR The Fathers doe not deny free vvill WHIT. pag. 79. August Enchirid cap. 30. Ambrose de vocat gent. cap. 9. Bernard de libr. arbâ—t doe deny it Fathers also and euery mans owne experience howsoeuer these words may be vnderstood of mankind as he was sometime in Adam For thus he writeth a little before Ecelesiâ—it 15. vers 14. He made man from the beginning and left him in the hand of his owne counsaile if he speake of the first condition and state of man and of his perfect and vncorrupt nature wherein he was created of the Lord he speaketh very true but if he made it now free for vs as we are naturall men to chuse or
light and euidence of the storie hath wrung this from you But tel vs who made question of them Did heretikes onely Then account Eusebius Hierome amongst heretikes who haue reported to vs their owne iudgement of these Epistles with the iudgement of the Church Can you prooue that they were accounted heretikes in the first and pure ages of the Church who tooke out of the Canon these Epistles For the Epistle of Saint Iames I haue answered sufficiently we neither reiect that nor any of the other Epistles which you falsely accuse the Lutherans to haue cut out this is no fauit of ours whom you knowe to be farre from Lutheranisme quarrell then with them as for vs we neuer cunningly shifted off the testimonies and allegations of those Epistles Can you in equitie require any more of vs At length then forbeare to vpbraide vs with I knowe not what desperation frowardnes and presumption wee willingly admit receiue and allow of your owne bookes which your selfe make vse of in disputation to their iudgment will we stand if you can conuince vs by these you winne the field That which you adde of the booke of Ester and of almost three whole chapters of Daniel is nothing but cauilling The booke of Ester we account Canonicall as much as by Gods authoritie is written in b DVR As if the Hebrevv tongue were the rule of the Canon and of diuine authority WHIT. pag. 90. No booke is a part of the new Testament which is vvritten in Latin yet is not Greeke the rule of the Canon Hebrew but those fragments which commonly are annexed to that holy history of Ester we cannot so highly account of as for those three chapters they are none of Daniels of which read if you please c DVR Hicrome to Ruffinus seemeth to approue those three chapters of Daniel WHIT. pag. 92. Erasmus noted that Hierome delt craftely hauing in his preface shevved he thought othervvise Hieromes preface vpon Daniel And there you shall find that not the Anabaptists only but the auncient Iewes haue reiected and derided them But Campian why doe you trifle thus were you wont to build much vpon the authority of those bookes did you in these lay the foundations of your faith why then do you seeke to make vs odious by these bookes which if they were neuer so Canonical would further your cause neuer a whit the more Now you much commend Augustines modestie VVho August de doctrin Christ. lib. 2. cap. 8. say you hath made a Catalogue of the bookes of holy Scripture farre better then either the Iewes or Sectaries I could wish you Iesuits had a little more modestie that ye might be more like Augustine for all men speake and cry out of your male pertnes and insolency But Augustine counted those bookes Canouicall which we do not true I deny it not but what of that is not Augustine opposite to Hierome for Hierome expressely denies those bookes to be nuÌ„bred in the Canon And Augustine setting downe the whole Canon of the Scripture doth annex these to it It seemeth there is a great difference in their iudgements for those which Hierome denies Augustine affirmeth to be Canonicall both famous men and such as haue deserued well of the Church of God how then may we satisfie Augustine whom Campian obiecteth vnto vs No otherwise then as the truth is The termes of Apochrypha and Canonicall Hierome vseth in one sense and Augustine in another Hierome accounted all these bookes Apochrypha which were not written in Hebrew Augustine though in deed and in truth he differed not yet he gaue this name especially to those bookes which were not fraught with fables and lies such as those times afforded very many For so he writeth lib. 15. cap. 23. de ciuit Dei Though there be some truth found in the Apochrypha bookes yet they haue no Canonicall authoritie there being so many lies in them Therefore he names in the Canon the booke of Iudith and Toby and Ecclesiasticus other of that sort because there was more truth and sinceritie in them then in those common and diuulged fables Therefore Augustine vseth the terme of Canonicall Scripture more largely then Hierome and of Apochrypha more strictly vnlesse happily we will suppose that of set purpose Augustine would differ from Hierome in a thing of that moment Besides the Romish Cardinal Caietan in fine comenta in histor veter Testameuti of whom we spake before writeth that certeine Councels with Augustine accounted these bookes Canonicall because they were rules for manners not for faith and doctrine And what reason Augustine had to plead for the booke of Wisdome De predest Sanct. c. 24. least it should be turned out of the Canon let him looke to it himselfe this very booke Hierom whom you Iesuits vsually preferre before Augustine hath by name excluded and from the selfe-same place where Augustine confirmeth the authority of this booke euery man may gather that it was not commonly receiued in the Canon for when Augustine cited a testimony out of that booke He was taken away Wisd 4.11 least wickednes should alter his vnderstanding many of the brethren who were present cried out It was not alledged out of a Canonicall booke d DVR But you reuiue not Augustines ansvvere and hovv he obiected against them the consent of all Bishops faithfâ—ll Laitie c. WHIT. pag. 97. Augustine doth not accuse them of impudency or sacriledge for denying it nor reprouâ—s them much only he saith it is better then other treatises vvhich I acknovvledge And the consents of the former he alledged to proue that a sentence of this booke is not lightly to be reiected seeing many Churches did reade it though all did not receiue it as himselfe saith de ciuit Dei lib. 27. cap. 20. Now it is like they neuer would haue reiected the argument and testimony of this speech if the authoritie of that booke had been Canonicall in the Church And yet I denie not but that Antiquitie might thinke more reuerently of this booke then of other of the bookes of Apochryphaes For I obserue in Eusebius that c DVR Melito affirmeth this booke to be Canonicall WHIT. pag. 98. Be it so yet he reiectes all your other and what haue you got by it But by the name of Wisdome some thinke he meaneth the Prouerbs of Salomon Melita the Bishop of Sardis in a certeine Epistle written to Onesimus wherin he setteth downe exactly the number of the sacred bookes of the old Testament and accounteth this booke as one of the Canon yet he mentioneth not one of the others which we call Apochrypha neither Toby nor Iudith nor the Macchabees nor Ecclesiasticus nor yet any of the rest for which you striue so much yet he affirmeth that he tooke great paines to know exactly those auncient bookes and professeth that he fully attained his end Eusebius lib. 4. cap. 26. After saith he I had learned exactly what
cannot long continue But you now begin to presse your aduersaries somewhat more forceably and you demaund of them for example sake by what authority they maime and robbe the corpes of the Bible I answere we offer no violence to this body neâ—ther do we cut off any which doe appertain to the substance and perfection of it we dash out no part of it we pull away no member For to vse your owne words we do not cut out any true Canonicall Scriptures but cull out such as are not Canonical but foisted in and counterfeit But you would know who shal be iudge you make Caluin to answere for vs the holy Ghost and you suggesting that he giueth this answere to escape the iudgement of the Church if you enquire how we know these writings which we call Scriptures to be heauenly and giuen by the inspiration of God that is by what testimony we are perswaded that those writings are holy Scripture which are so called I would aske you with as much reason another question how know you the sonne is the sonne or how ye come not to doubt that God is God for we verely haue as much certeinty that thâ—se bookes are the sacred Scripture commended of the Lord to the Church written by the Prophets and Apostles proceeding from diuine authoritie as that the Moone is the Moone yea as wee are sure of any thing else which by vndoubted knowledge we are full assured of this answere Caluin also hath giuen you Iustit lib. 1. cap. 7. sect 4. cap. 8. toto writing that many things might be produced which would easily proue that if there be a God in heauen the Law the Prophets and the Gospell came from him yea and with many words at large he vrgeth it with most strong arguments such as may satisfie any reasonable man touching the authoritie and credit of the Scriptures There are in the bookes themselues proofes enough both certeine and perspicuous which will proue and demonstrate the credit of the Scriptures that no man need boubt of them But because the sense and reason of man is often times weake and easily distracted into diuers and doubtfull cogitations the inward and hidden testimony of the spirit must be had that men may firmely rest in the Scriptures For though outward testimonies will so conuince vs that for shame we cannot deny the Scriptures to be the word of God yet then only do we attaine a certeine and sauing ful assurance when the same spirit which writ and published them doth perswade our harts of the credit of them And this is that spirit which the Lord hath promised to his Church and which dwelleth in the harts of the faithfull and is as a seale vnto them he that hath not this spirit shall euer in himselfe be vncerteine and doubtfull though he heare the Church a thousand times What is the fault then you find Campian Caluin say you doth make the spirit Iudge thereby to escape the iudgement of the Church by whose authoritie all spirits are tried The iudgement of the Church ought not to differ from the iudgement of the spirit the same spirit gouerneth the whole h DVR What an absurd thing is this that you contemne the voice of the Church and allow your common people to iudge rather of the Scriptâ—res and giue all to the spirit when the Fathers haue obiected the Church against heretikes WHIT. pag. 109. We contemne not the voice of the first Church wherein these were written and from theÌ„ commended to succeeding Churches But pag. 108. we much regard not the voice of your Romish Church for as we know there is a God though it tell vs not so much so that the Scriptures are the word of God though it be silent and by the same grounds that your Church knoweth the Scriptures to be the Scriptures by the same proofes may euery priuate Christian know them pag. 111. If you know not that the grace of the spirit is necessary to discerne the Scriptures then reade these places John 14 26. 1. Iohn 2 26 27. 1 Cor. 2 14 10. Esay 51 16. Now the same spirit who wâ—it them seales them vp to vs without which some knowledge may be had of them bâ—t no faith we may acknowledge them but not certeinly beleeue them without the spirit And if the Fathers haue obiected the Church against heretikes in the like case we will do the same For the testimony of the spirit is not of validity to confute others but to confirme our selues Church and euery particular beleeuer But your Church knoweth not this spirit no maruell then if it dislike the iudgement of the spirit yet I would haue you take this for an answere once for all that the authority of the Scriptures doth not depend vpon the iudgement of the Church for let the Church iudge what it will yet can it neuer by all the authority it hath make the Canonicall bookes to be no Canonicall and that those which are not Canonicall should be had in reputation as Canonical The Scripture hath it owne proper authority in it selfe not borrowed froÌ„ another And as little can the Church add authority to the Scripture as it can to God the authour of it But say you how commeth it to passe that the Caluinists spirit alloweth six Epistles which the Lutheran spirit doth disallow you go in a ring making only the repetition of the same things without any proceeding Those Epistles the Lutherans i DVR That the Lutheâ—anâ— do not like these Epiâ—iles tâ—ey of Magdeburg Centur. 1. lib. 2. cap. 4. tell vs plainely WHIT. pag. 117. What is that to vs who thinke as honorablie of them as you do but if they by the example of auncient â—hurches haue spokeÌ„ somewhat hardly of those Epistles is there heere any such difference of â—pirits All things are not reueâ—led to all a like all haue not the like measure of the spirit If any be otherwise minded God will in his time reueâ—le â—t to him doe not reiect nor dash them out of the new Testament yea they acknowledge them they make vse of them in vnfoulding of controuersies they expound them in their schooles and churches and they reade them both priuately and publikely vpon many of them Luther hath written k DVR By the same reason if Luther should comment vpon certeine of Aesops fables and Illyricus vpon al then by their spirit they are certeinly receiued into the Canon WHIT. pag. 117. And why may not Aesops fables be in the Canon if your Church please seeing your VVolfangus Hermannus affirme the Scriptures are of no more authority then those fables without the authority of your Church But I adde if you would haue seene it that they vsed them in preaching in expounding Scriptures in deciding controuersies and did interpret them both priuately and publikely Commentaries Illyricus vpon all That of the authority of those Epistles in times past the Catholike Church made some doubt they
Luther whom you say doubted not to taxe S. Lukes Gospell Serm. de Pharis Publi as if it were written in a wanton stile because therein good workes are often recommended vnto vs. Was there euer read or heard of the like impudencie audaciousnes and treacherous dealing in any man The place you note in the margent I haue very diligently and heedfully obserued that I might discerne wherin Luther hath shewed such male pertnes but I haue not found one vnholy nor dishonorable terme vnfit to be giuen to S. Luke as being an heauenly Euangelist For that which Luther propounds to himselfe is to take out of mens minds a scruple which S. Lukes often mention of workes might moue in them lest any happilie might thinke that S. Luke by often speaking of works should detract somewhat from faith or place our iustification in our workes And this is as you affirme saucilie to giue S. Luke a wipe if you can tel me of any greater matter I will no waies defend or excuse Luthers malepertnes But what malepertnes is this of yours Campian whom neither the feare of God nor the reuerence of men can restraine froÌ„ writing or diuulging of those things which your owne conscience tels you are most false and you cannot passe by Beza neither without the like Calumnious censure Who say you was so bould as to reprehend that mysticall word Hic est calix nâ—uâ—m Testameâ—tum in sâ—â—guine meo qui calix pro vobis fundetur This is the cup of the new Testament in my blood which cup shall be shedde for you aâ— corrupted and depraued I see well where your error is in following that corrupt and adulterous vulgar translation for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you thus translate a DVR I confesse there is a Metonymy in the cup the cup being put for the blood WHIT. pag. 130. Then this cup is as much as this blood Then see what a sentence you haue made This blood is the new Testament in my blood which is shed for you As if Christ had said This blood is the new Testament in my blood And so heere are two bloods and the one in the other Hic est calix nouum Testamentum This is the cup of the new Testament when the words are rather thus to be placed Hic calix est nouum Testamentum This cup is the new Testament and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being a participle of the present tence you translate by a verbe of the future tence Qui fundetur shall be shed for you for Qui funditur is shedde for you But you dare not goe a haires breadth from the vulgar translation for feare of incurring that curse of the Councell of Trent But heere Theodor Beza apparantly is caught in a haynous crime for he writeth that Luke hath committed a Solecisme what then I pray you a very foule fact and very intolerable Is it so indeed how shall we then defend Hierome who writeth that Paul committed such solecismes in his words that by no good ordering any good sense could be made of them In cap. 3. Epist. ad Ephes If S. Paul might commit Solecismes in his words why may we not thinke S. Luke may doe as much and if Hierome without sinne might accuse S. Paul not to speake properly or scholer-like why might not Beza note some want of propriety of speech in S. Luke for you are wide Campian if you thinke this any thing diminisheth the authoritie dignity of the Scriptures for Hierâ—me construeth it quite contrarie Let vs looke therefore vpon the place of the Euangelist that we may iudge where this fault is The words runne thus This cup is the new Testament in my blood which is shedde for you If you change nothing in the words and exclude all incongruitie then these last words Which is shed for you must be referred to the first This cup. And so this should be the meaning This cup is shed for you But not the cup but the blood of Christ was shed for vs. But you will say the cup is put for the wine in the cup. So that whether you will or no you must acknowledge that in these words there is a trope or figure though you Papists vsually deny the same and vehemently cry out none of them is to be taken figuratiuely But you your selues in these words make two figures first you take the cuppe for the wine in it then the wine for the blood of Christ which in no hand you can do without a figure therefore heereafter stand not vpon words for if you will now stand to the words you must either graunt that the cup was shed for vs or you must admit a solecisme and vnproper speech If we will read them as Basill doth Basil in Eth. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Which blood is shed for you the meaning wil be plaine when these words which is shedde for you are referred to the blood of Christ These are Campians collectioÌ„s of such things wherein our men haue offended against the authoritie and dignity of the Scripture These he crieth out do euidently open our diffidence and desperation these are those things he propoundeth vnto you that are most learned of the Vniuersity Whose iudgement I am therefore also wel contented to stand vnto because I well know your learning and wisdome together with your studious endeuours in the best authors to be such that this sillie foolish sophister with all his slaunders and lies shall neuer be able to remoue or corrupt you for what matter hath he brought or what inuention which may seeme to sauour either of deepe learning much reading or witty conceit Therefore you shall do wel to set light by the threats of this Philistine and to cleaue with constancy to that holy religion which you haue learned out of the holy Scriptures as also proceed in that course of vertue and learning you haue begun that the Iesuits with all their inchauntments may lose all their labour in seeking to seduce you Hitherto Campian hath busied himself in discoursing vnto vs what he could concerning the holy bookes being desirous also to deliuer vnto vs such things as we haue depraued in our false translations saue that as he saith he reserues this labour for his old Colledge fellow Gregory Martin some others whom he well knoweth will performe it farre more learnedly and copiously then himselfe Therefore if you thinke good we will expect this Martin of whom you speake and whom I shall easily conceiue to be a man of more learning then your selfe vnlesse he be a very doult indeed And I doubt not but we shall be able to maintaine our translations both Latin and English against your Martin and all your Colleagnes And as for those petty Doctors whom you lastly reproach I neither know them nor the nature of their offence But when once your friend Martin shall come abroad who now perhaps is hammering some speciall peece of worke we shall
be graunted you yet it followeth not that they brought in a new Gospell because they differed from that sense for the sense is not to be sought for among the multitude but we must looke to the Scriptures and to God speaking in them as the men of Berea did not take the sense of the most but searched the Scriptures whether Paul taught things agreeing vnto it The Gospell is not in the words of the Scripture but in the sense They then haue the best end of the staffe and are the best patrons of Religion and truth who find out and keepe the true and natural meaning of the Scripture For the letter or word is plaine all controuersies depend vpon the meaning of the Word The state of the question is then thus whether of vs twaine haue attained the true and naturall meaning of the Scripture whether you Iesuits falsely called Catholikes or we who oppose your opinion and iudgment First therefore in generall and in few words we will see what is your opinion and iudgement then we will answere to your cauils Now it is most cleere that you make both the Scripture it selfe and the interpretation of it to depend vpon the authority of the b DVR Js it some haynous offence to require the iudgement of the Church in interpreting the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 142. We contemne not the iudgement of the Church but highly esteeme it as profitable to the well interpreting of the Scriptures But we contemne the iudgment of your Church which hath not any thing which a true Church should haue DVR Whither then should we goe to finde the sense WHIT. Euen whether Christ biddeth vs go search the Scriptures Iohn 5.39 And this vse they haue saith S. Paul 2. Tim. 3.15.16 Church And the Church you call not the whole multitude of Christians and faithfull men but you restraine both the name and nature of the Church vnto your c DVR You reprooue vs that vvee giue the interpretation of the Scriptures to Bishops they verily ought to deliver the true sense they haue receiued from their predecessors to the people WHIT. pag. 144. S. Paul alloweth all Ministers of the Gospell this power to interpret the Scriptures 1. Cor. 14.29.30 who ought aswell to deliuer the true sense as Bishops Besides you must know that the knowledge of tâ—â— Scriptures and the gifts of the spirit are not hereditarie or to be deliuered from hand to hand Bishops But your Bishops may differ touching the sense of the Scriptures so shall we be vncerteine and shall not resolue which of them to beleeue But you can helpe this generall d DVR Great and many controuersies haue been decided by Councels WHIT. pag. 145. It followeth not hereupon that the interpreting of the Scriptures is to be sought for of theÌ„ or if good Councels by the true interpretation of the Scriptures haue taken away some errors and heresies that thereâ—ore all interpretation is theirs or that we must looke for the same from impâ—ous and vnlearned Councels Councels must decide and determine all questions and controuersies Shall we then rest in them no more then in the other for the e DVR And why not seeing no Councell is of any authoritie which was not confirmed by the Pope WHIT. pag. 146. This is false for the sixt African Councell and the Calcedon Councell haue their authority without him And Emperors Patriaâ—kes and Bishops haue confinued Councels And the Councell of Constantinople by letters desired the confirmation of the decrees from Theodosius the Emperor DVR .. God set ouer the Iewes one High Priest Deut. 17.11 Then would Christ neuer neglect his Spouse but leaue her a chiefe iudge vpon the earth WHIT. pag. 151. Yet that iudge was to determine according to the Law Deut. 17.11 But the Pope maketh interpretations not out of the word written but out of his owne braine Againe it followeth not if ouer one little nation God set one chiefe iudge Christ must set but one ouer the whole world Besides the Iewish iudge was a type of Christ Lastly it followeth not that Chriâ—â— hath left his Church no iudge iâ— he haue not leâ—t it one only for euery Church haâ—h her Pastor to teach her and to dâ—â—ermine questions in her Pope must be iudge ouer the Councels So in the conclusion the whole interpretation of holy Scriptures is transferred to the Pope and must be fetched out of his brest yea and as a proper right he so challengeth the power of interpreting of the Scripture that whatsoeuer he thinketh that must be accounted the sense and meaning of them This is your constant and perpetuall propertie and disposition in interpreting the Scriptures full of dotage error and falshood void of aduise knowledge and wisdome For what an absurd and horrible thing is it that the sense and meaning of the holy Scripture should depend vpon one mans iudgement and voice specially being such a one as commonly the Bishops of Rome haue been vnlearned wicked hereticall And hence haue proceeded all those goodly interpretations Take Eate that is you Priests say priuate Masses Dist. 31. Tenere Drinke yee all of this that is only the Priests must drinke Be yee holy for I am holy f DVR Which oâ— the Popes or what Catholike â—riter euer collected this out of that place WHIT. pag. 159. Pope Syricius did first of all so collect and after him Pope Innocent as you may reade in Graâ—â—an Dist. 31. cap. Tenâ—re Dist. 82. cap. propâ—suisti cap. plurimos therfore it is vnlawful for the Minister of the Word to marry a wife Giue yee not holy things to dogges therefore the people must be forbidden to reade the Scriptures What should I number vp innumerable moe of your interpretations by which you doe nothing but peruert and wrest the Scriptures Is this indeed Campian the right interpreting of Scripture or must all Christians receiue this exposition as the oracle of God But what should I speake of the constant tenour you keepe in the interpretation of Scripture for you make the sense of Scriptures so changeable so diuerse and inconstant like to a nose of waxe and a leaden rule Pighius that at all assaies it may euer serue your turne So writeth g DVR Cusanus hath written very rightly for there are diuers senses of the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 162. What rule then can be more vncerteine then the Scriptures or what can be spoken more vilely of the Scripture how then is the Scripture one rule Phil. 3.16 how is iâ— firme induring for euer 1. Pet. 1.25 how no deceitfull ballance Augusâ— dâ— Baptis cont Don. lib. 2. cap. 6. Nicholas Cusanus a Cardinall of Rome Nicol. Cusan Epist. 2. Epist. 7. to the Bohemians This vnderstand that the Scriptures are fitted to the time and diuersely to be vnderstood so that at one time they may be expounded according to the common customable course but change that and the sense is
prepared and offered to all the godly But those heauenly and holy banquets whereby our soules are nourished vp to eternall life you make prophane and common when you imagine that Christ may be receiued and eaten like other meates aswell of the r DVR Not vve but the Scripture the Fathers and reason it selfe doth affirme it but speciallie S. Paul 1. Cor. 11.27 Whosoeuer eateth this bread WHIT. pag 195. None of these affirme it and least of all S. Paul for he saith not vvhosoeuer eateth the body of Christ but vvhosoeuer eateth this bread wicked as of the most deuout men in the world which is an horrible opinion senselesse and vnsound For that you adde of flesh body and blood I confesse for being the Sacraments of these things they haue their names giuen vnto them for signes of things saith Augustine are said to be the things of which they are signes But say you heere is nothing figuratiue nothing obscure by doubtfull speeches True it is there is neuer a riddle in the words no obscuritie For the obscurity that is is not in the words but in your interpretation of them which ten Apolloes cannot so vnfold and open that things might agree and answere fitly one to another What resteth yet is it not that at length wee find out some certeine and true sense of these words I hope say you Antiquitie may be heard I verily in this controuersie will reiect no Antiquitie no Councell no auncient Father neither will I refuse any monument of true Antiquitie For that same reuerend hoarie head of Fathers which you speake of could neuer come to the knowledge of this new doctrine of Transubstantiation lately hatched If those holy Fathers and reuerend Elders did now liue they would neuer acknowledge this moÌ„ster nor indure the sight of it but iudge it worthy to be abandoned into the vtmost parts of the world Whereas then you say They cannot away with that They say then they are betrayed You trifle and say nothing to the purpose for we can away well with this triall and feare no treachery in it But will call you very willingly to this reuerend Antiquitie as to a barre of triall Therefore if you please we will demaund of those reuerend Fathers what they iudge to be the meaning of those words which you haue produced for example sake And seeing there is no necessity to collect all their sayings some few of them shall speake to giue vs a tast of the rest Å¿ DVR Tertullian speaketh not of that bread vvhich Christ in his last supper made his body but of another bread vvhich vvas the figure of his body vndâ—r the lavv WHIT. pag. 2â—0 The plaâ—e sheweth very plainly that he speaketh of no other bread then of thaâ— which Christ had said this is my body and which in the night he vvas betrayed he tooke brake and gaue to his disciples Tell vs where vnder the law Christ euer said thus or did thus with any bread DVR Bread wine in the old Testament vvere Figures of Christs body blood therfore in the nevv Testament of the bread must the true body of Christ be made of the vâ—ine his blood WHIT. pag. 202. It will well follow froÌ„ this that Christ must haue in the new Testament a true body true blood but it cannot be inforced hereupoÌ„ that it must be made of bread wine As if because their Sacramenâ—s were figures theâ—fore ours must be traÌ„substantiated into the things themselues Then will it follow that because the flood the â—edsea the cloud were types of our Bapâ—isme therefore it should not be a figure or a signe but be turned into thâ— very blood of Christ Tertullian saith Tertul. lib. 4 contra Marc. Christ professed his desire to eate the Passâ—ouer as his owne and hauing taken bread and distributed it to his disciples hee made it his bodie by saying this is my body that is the figure or signe of my body You acknowledge both Tertullians words and his meaning t DVR Augustine signifieth the SacrameÌ„t by the name of figure WHIT pag 204. It is true Christ gaue the SacrameÌ„t to his diâ—ciâ—les but Augustine vseth not the word Sacrament but figure to shew that as no figuâ—e or signe is the thing wherof it is a fi uâ—e so the bread is not properly the body nor the wâ—ne the blood of Christ Augustine saith August in Psal 3. Christ admitted Iudas to that banquet in which he commended to his disciples the figure of his body and blood In another place also u DVR Augustine disputeth in this pâ—ace against the Maâ—â—chees carpâ—ng at Moses vvords The blood is the soule of the beast And saith it is so spoke as the SacrameÌ„t of the body of Christ is called his body the blood is called the soule because it is as the signe of the soule which lieth hid in the blood as the Sacramet is the signe of the body of Christ vvhich is conteined in it WH T pag. 206. Nay I infer the coÌ„trary as the soule is not the blood wheÌ„ it is oâ—â— of the vaines may be eaten so Christ is not in the Sacrament And as the blood is the signe of the soule which is not in it so is the Sacrament of the bodie which is not conteined in it The Lord verily doubted not to speake thus Contra. Adimant cap. 12. This is my body when he gaue the signe of his body And that you may vnderstand that this was Augustines perpetuall tenor in interpreting of these words and that he determined farre diuerse to you touching the eating of Christs flesh heare what he saith in his bookes of Christian Instruction where he giueth diuers precepts for the vnderstanding of the phrase of the Scriptures If saith he any sentence there seeme to coÌ„maund any impious act De doctr Christ. lib. 3. cap. 16. or to forbid any duty tending to the profit or good of others it is a figuratiue speech vnlesse saith Christ you eate the flesh of the Son of man and drinke his blood you haue no life in you It seemeth to inioyne an * DVR Augustine did not thinke that it vvas an heynous thing to eate the flesh of Christ but to cate 〈◊〉 as the Capernites thought that is torne and rent in peeces WHIT. pag. 209. You answere somewhat as touching the fact but nothing for the figure But Augustine saith there is a figure which cannot be if the flesh of Christ be either eaten as you say whole or chopt in peeces as the Capernites affirme And if it be an horrible fact to eate the smale parts of Christs boâ—ie is it not a more beastly bloody thing to deuoure the whole body of Christ at one morâ—elâ— DVR It is no more heynous for a Christian to eate the flesh of Christ whole then it was for the blessed Virgin to conceiue to nourish it in her wombe WHIT. pag. 211. What is this
but as if you had said It is no heynous thing to conceiue and bring forth an Infant Therfore it is none to deuoure it after it is borne heynous act It is therefore a figuratiue speech commanding vs to communicate in the Passion of the Lord. Doe you thinke this reuerend old man dotes or hath he not giuen a iudicious interpretation wel agreeing vnto the iudgement of the auncient I thinke matters yet goe worse on your side then they did before but perhaps you will say these are too auncieÌ„t to serue your turne heare then some of latter times Theod. Theodoret a Gretian and a learned man writeth thus in his Dialogueâ— x DVR Theodorets meaning is that the signes haue not lost their naturall properties though their nature be changed WHIT. pag. 214. If the naturall properties remaine then certeinly their natures must for esseâ—tâ—all properties can neuer be separated from â—heir natures yea in the words follow ng in this very place Theodoret affirmeth that the nature remaineth The mysticall bread saith he remaineth in the nature it first had in the figure and in the forme Mysticall signes doe not lose their proper nature This very speech quite ouerthroweth your Transubstantiation for if their proper nature remaine without doubt nothing can be Transubstantiated or changed Now the bread keepeth his proper and old nature therefore there can be no Transubstantiation but I will ioyne to Theodoret Marcarius whose homilies Morelius had out of the Kings Librarie and hath published them in Greeke and I suppose that you being a Frier will not reiect the testimony of so auncient a Monke he writeth thus In the Church saith he Marcar homil is offered bread and wine y DVR An antitype or resemblance of the type is not the type or figure but the substance signified by that type or figure WHIT. pag. 217. An antitype is neuer properly the substance of the type though sometime it be another type answering to it and both of them are but similitudes figures of the substance And sometimes a type and an antitype are both one and the same as Heb. 9.24 The Tabernacle is called an antitype of heaueÌ„ being the substance signified by the Tabernacle and no answering type to the Tabernacle And in this sense doe diuers of the Fathers vse the word Antitype as Basil Nazianzen Theodoret Chrysost antitypes or resemblances of his body and blood What saith he bread and wine but bread is already turned into flesh and wine into blood Ought a Monke to speake after this manner giue you them so slender a name as similitudes Pardon mee Campian this Monke was neuer vsed to speake after your manner neither was your Transubstantiation as yet come abroad what say you now are you pleased with this reuerend hoare head of the Fathers If you rest not heere it shall be free for you to appeale to any one of the whole reuerend company of the holy Fathers not one of them no not any one of them do I except against For I make no doubt but if they may be iudges you shall euer haue the worst From henceforth therefore do not cast any such calumniâ—â—ions vpon vs and boast your selfe of the bare names of the Fathers for the Fathers both in this controuersie and in many others are firme on our side As for the Fathers of whom you name many but I beleeue haue read but a few I thus answere you We are not the seruants of the Fathers but the sonnes When they prescribe vs any thing out of the Law and diuine authoritie we obey them as our parents If they inioyne any thing against the voyce of the heauenly truth we haue learned not to harken to them but to God You as Vassals and base seruants receiue whatsoeuer the Fathers saie without iudgement or reason being affraid as I think either of the whippe or the halter if euery thing they speake be not Gospell with you In few words say you this is their drift vnlesse thou wilt stand to their owne iudgement that are guilty there is no iudgement to be had Verily this fits you a great deale better then vs for you will receiue no iudgement but the iudgement of the Pope and Church of Rome which Church and Pope wee haue proued long agoe to be guilty of most heynous crimes and there hath been a perpetuall variance betwixt him and vs. Is there any equity then in your demaunds that we should stand to his iudgement who 〈◊〉 both a person guilty and an aduersarie to vs And well should we deserue to lose the cause if we would be so witlesse contenders Much truer speaketh Augustine Let one matter encounter with another Contra Maxim lib. 3. c. 14. one cause with another one reason with another by the authoritie of the holy Scriptures which are not proper to either side but common z DVR How foolishly do you alledge Augustine who maketh the Scripture a witnes of the truth not a iudge as you would haue it WHIT. pag. 243. If the Scripture be the witnes where shall we find a iudge answerable to this witnes Is it the Church Then must it be of more authority then the Scripture which heere you affirme not neither may it be graÌ„ted for the Scripture is the word of God therefore he that is the iudge of it must be the iudge of God himselfe To deny the Scriptures then the preheminence in iudging is to thrust God out of his throne Therefore as God so the Scripture the word of God hath the authoritie both of a witnesse and a iudge DVR Augustine euer thought that the Popes iudgement was the highest tribunall â—pon earth where all controuersies must be decided WHIT. pag. 244. Augustine neuer thought so but writ the contrary De ciuitat Dei lib. 15. â—ap 3. The Lord saith he hath penned the Scripture which is callâ—d Canonicall because it is of highest authoritie yea hee neuer once pressed the Arrians either with the authoritie of the Pope or of the Councell which vndoubtedly he would haue done neither could he haue done better if the highest iudgement had been in the Church witnesses for both And to their iudgements would we haue you to stand not ours As for other things you speake of I passe them ouer for you will reserue them for vs till another place and wheras you say you haue cited many and worthy places of Scripture we haue weighed those places in their ballances and haue found them to light to proue what you proposed And it is your vse indeed rather to take them by number then by weight But you charged vs with scorning at this and shifting them off we did nothing lesse all we did was to free them from your cauils We haue say you alledged the interpretations of the Greeke and Latin Churches I confesse it but we haue wrung all those weapons from you and haue by them battered all your holds But say you what say they
WHIT. pag 272. It the Arrians or any other heretike can proue the doctrine of their Churches out of the holy Scriptures they may answere the same which we doe for euery Church which holdeth the Apostles doctrine may professe that all cities village◠〈◊〉 which were religous were seasoned with their doctrine for in the Apostles time all Churches all cities all townes euery family embraced the same faith and religion which we now professe After that by little and little the purity of doctrine n DVR Tell me then from whom and in what age any doctrine of our profession was brought into the Church WHIT. pag. 277. The motion of the Sunne is so very swift that we may see it hath moued though we cannot discerne the mouing of it so such is the mystery of your iniquity that I well perceiue by the Scriptures your doctrines are not Apostolicall but the time when and the manner how they were brought in is not much to our purpose And it were too long to tell all yet heare some Your Romish Bishop a long time together was but equall to other Bishops thâ—ugh much was giuen to him for the excellency of that Church After the Christian world was diuided into foure Prouinces when he became the chiefe of the Patriarkes after this he began to challenge authority ouer other Churches and for that purpose counterfeited the Councell of Nice but he was repressed by the African Councell Then Gregory the great greatly inueyed against Iohn of Constantinople because he sought the name of vniuersall Bishop and for that ambition called him the forerunner of Antichrist Lastly Boniface the eight with a great summe obtained that honor of Phocas the Parricide And since that hee grew to that height that hee made not only Churches and Kings but the Christian Emperour himselfe to kisse his feete But see another example Time was when there were no images in Churches As that of Epiphanius proueth who rent a vaile in peeces because there was in it an image of Christ or of some Saint But in time they were receiued into the Church but no honor giuen them yet after that good Bishops brake them and cast them out againe as Gregory writeth that Serenus the Bishop of Massilia did whom he thus checketh for it In that you forbad them to be worshipped wee commend you but that you brake them we reprehend you Gregor regist lib. 7. Epist. 9. Lastly the second Nicene Councell decreed that they were not to be broken yea that they were religiously to be worshipped And thus hath it succeeded in other things as S. Paul did foretellâ—e saying The mysterie of iniquitie doth alreadie worke 2. Thess 2.7 began to be corrupted and diuers superstitions spread far and neare though the holy Fathers did as much as they could resist 2. Thess 2.7 vntill that mystery of iniquitie which tooke rooting in the very Apostles time spread it selfe o DVR VVhat can be spoken or imagined more wicked and impious WHIT. pag. 278. Then prophesied S. Paul impiously when he did so â—â—â—ell of a departing and that Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God Is this any other then that the mysterie of iniquitie should spread it selfe ouer the Church by all the parts of the Church and at length possessed it wholy Yet Antichrist that man of sinne could neuer preuaile so farre but a great multitude of the Saints remained and those whose names were written in the booke of life did vtterly abhorre all those filthie and wicked superstitions of Antichrist For in the Church of Rome it selfe euen in the worth times of it yet many were euer found who worshipped the God of their Fathers and kept themselues vnpolluted with that horrible Idolatrie And this can histories of all times witnesse which I could now recite if it were needful and reckon vp to you many houses villages townes cities and countries where Christ had many and populous Churches The p DVR This is very false for in the FloreÌ„tine Councell the Emperour Paleolus together with the Grecians and Armenians freely acknowledged the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ and imbraced the Romane faith yea and at this day they dissent from vs in few things as Icremy the Patriarke of Constantinople hath plainly written WHIT pag. 279. Why are they then of you accounted Schismatickes or vvhy obey they not the Pope why came they not to the Councell of Trent the Pope by al meanes hath sought to haue theÌ„ subiect to him but they stil coÌ„temne him to his no small griefe It is true the Emperour the Patriarke and a multitude of Bishops came to the FloreÌ„tine CouÌ„cel They agreed vvith theÌ„ in many things â—â—â—hers they dissented your TraÌ„substantiation they vtterly renouÌ„ced At that time Iesaphus their Patriarke suddenly died Eugenius the Pope instantly vrged a nevv election They denied to make any till they came to Constantinople See you not hovv vvell they agree I haue a booke of yours not of Ieremies neither vvill a small thing make me beleeue it is his for both the Grecianâ— and particularly he hath giuer great approbation of our Churches as vve find it in his vvorkes published both in Greeke and Latin Greeke Church could neuer yet be brought to ioyne it self to your Church and it is 〈◊〉 opposite to you as euer our Church was And yet you so forge these things as if the Pope of Rome long agoe had had the whole world vnder his subiection Vntill that vnhappy Monke as you say by his incestâ—â—â—â— marriage had defloured a Nunne dedicated to God by 〈◊〉 soleâ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 or vntill that quarrelling Swâ—â—â— had câ—â—spired against his country or that infamous â—â—â—â—gate had vndertaken an vsurped authority in Geâ—â—â—â— So Campian go on to raile and reuile euery good man powre out the gall of your bitternes seeing you haue vndertaken to spend all your venemous darts vpon them Luthers name is written in the book of life and his memory shal euer be sacred among all good men and your reproaches shall not be able to pearce or wound him It is a true saying that a false repreach pierceth not the skinne you call him Monke your selfe is but a Frier now Monkes were euer accounted more honest then Friers But he by incestuous marriage deâ—â—oured 〈◊〉 Nomâ—â—â— dedicated to God by solemne vow q DVR But you goe against S. Paul who directly denounced damnation to those who will marry hauing broken their first saith which is vnderstood by all the Fathers of violating the vow of single life by incestuous marriages WHIT. pag. 281. But how proue you that the Apostle vnderstaÌ„deth by that faith the vow of virginity Nay the scope of the place sheweth vs the contrary for he forbiddeth that younger widdowes whom he perswadeth to marry should be taken into that office only such as were threescore yeares old who may well abstaine from marriages follow this calling Now if they be not of this age he sheweth
true faith lay hold on the Gospell These though they may bee seene as long as they liue amongst men seeing they are men as others bee yet because neither their faith nor Gods loue which maketh them members of the Church is visible we affirme that this Church consisting of holy and faithfull men is altogether inuisible Christ is the head of this Church to this only the elect caâ— ioyne themselues wee then acknowledge another Church besides that which coÌ„teineth only Saints for so should there be no visible Church at all but what company of men soeuer vpon the earth doth professe the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets we professe that to be the true Church of Christ though many wicked men be found in it Neither are we the first who did inuent and deuise these things as you say of vs but are ready to proue theÌ„ both by the holy scripture and by authority of Antiquity Comfort then your selfe Campian as much as you can with the wits of our Vniuersity men and promise to your selfe great things from vs but see you bring more dexterity of wit or else without doubt you can neuer deceiue vs with this shallow conceit If you should propound these foolish and childish things in the populous assemblies of our Vniuersity men I perswade my selfe they would not only teare to pieces these your childish shifts but do as much by you too for abusing so shamefully their learned conceites EDMVND CAMPIAN The fourth Reason which is generall Councels AGreat controuersie for the keeping of the ceremonies of the old law which in the Primitiue Church much moued the minds of faithfull people was by a Councell gathered together of the Apostles and some elders decided Children then beleeued their Parents and sheepe their Sheepheards charging them in this sort a Act. 15 It hath pleased the holy Ghost and vs after this there were holden foure generall Councels of auncient Fathers for the rooting out of heresie which budded vp aboundantly in euery age which were of such authoritie aboue b Greg. li. 1. epist. 24. 1000. yeeres agoe that * Gregorie made the foure Councels equall to the Euangelists great honour was attributed vnto them as though it had been vnto the foure Gospels I will seeke no further euen here in our owne Countrey by an c Anno 1. Elizab. acte of Parliament the selfe same Councels doe retaine still their former force and pure authoritie which said acte I will heere alleadge And call thee thy selfe O England my most louing Countrey to witnesse If thou reuerence as thou pretendest those Councels Nic. Can. 6. Chal. act 4. 16. Constan c. 5. Eph. conc in epist. ad Nestorium Nic. con 14 Chal. act 11 Nic. conc apud Soc. lib. 1 cap. 8. Vide Chalc. can 4.15.23 then wilt thou yeeld vp the supremacie to the Bishop of the chiefe sea that is to Saint Peter Then wilt thou acknowledge vpon the altar the vnbloodie sacrifice of the bodie and blood of Christ. Then wilt thou pray the blessed Martyrs and all the Saints in Heauen to make intercession to Christ for thee Then wilt thou restraine these leacherous Apostataes from their filthie carnall copulation and open incest Then wilt thou build vp many things which now thou pullest downe and wish many things vndone which now thou doest Moreouer I promise and vndertake as occasion and time shall serue to proue that the * Campian makes all Synods equall with the Gospell Councels holden at other times and namely the Councell of Trent haue been of equall authoritie and credit with the foure first Councels Wherefore then should I not come to this place of triall securely and couragiously to marke into what corner my enemie will creepe seeing I am * This is false ancient Councels doe not confirme the Romish faith ayded with the valiant and piked garrison of all the Councels For I will alleadge both most manifest matter which he shall not be able to wrest aside and also most substantially prooued which he dare not contemptuously reiect He will perhaps goe about to trifle out the time with multiplying of many words but if you be the men that I haue alwaies taken you for you will take so good heed vnto him that he shall neither rob you of your eares nor eyes If there shall be any at all so mad as to oppose himselfe against the sages of all Christendome and those such men as for holines of life learning and antiquitie are too great to be challenged I would willingly behold that brazen face the which when I shall shâ—w you I will leaue the rest to your imaginations In the meane while I will giue you this caueat that whosoeuer affirmeth that a generall Councell * The Councell of Trent was neither a full Councell nor lawfully held And so both the Emperor and the French King haue iudged Sleidan anno 1551. lib. 33. The assemblie of certaine men duly and orderly kept and finished is of no force or authoritie the same man seemeth to me to be one of no iudgement nor of any wit and not onely an asse in diuinitie but also voide of discretion in worldly policie If euer the spirit of God illuminated the Church surely then that time is most fit to send downe the holy Ghost when the religion perfection knowledge wisdome and honour of all Churches dispersed throughout all Christendome are assembled together into one Citie and vsing all meanes both diuine and humane whereby the truth may be searched out Matth 18. they call vpon the holy Ghost promised e Joh. 14. by God vnto them that by his assistance they may establish godly lawes for the safe and wise gouernement of the Church Now let there some pettie peart hereticall Doctor leape out let him looke vp stately let him scorne and mocke let him lay all shame aside let him saucily giue iudgement of his owne iudges what game what pastime shall he make we haue spied out such a one euen Martin f Lib. de capt Bab. Luther who saith that he more esteemeth of the voices of two honest and learned men ye may well imagine his owne and Philip Melancthons if they come together in Christs name then he did of all generall Councels O worthy companie We haue found out also another of the same crue to wit g Martini Kemnitij examen Conc. Tridentini Kemnitius who hath vndertaken to examine the Councell of Trent by his owne vnreasonable giddie braine what hath he gained an euill name so that he except he preuent it by recanting shall be buried for an heriticke with Arrius whereas the Councell of Trent the elder it waxeth by so much more it shall flourish daily and continually * The famous praises of the Councell of Trent O good Lord with what diuersitie of people out of all countries with what choice of Bishops throughout all Christendome with what excellencie of Kings and Common-weales with what
profound diuines with what * Two Bishops were taken in adulterie and put to death Illyric deuotion with what lamentations with what abstinence and fasting with what flowers of Vniuersities with what knowledge of strange tongues with what sharpe wits with what studie with what endlesse reading with what store of vertues and exercises was that sacred place replenished I heard with my owne eares Bishops reioyce being men of great birth and very well learned of which one was Anthony Archbishop of Prage who created me Priest for that they had been brought vp certaine yeeres in that famous Schoole so that they acknowledged no benefite that euer the Emperour Ferdinando bestowed on them to whom otherwise also they thought themselues no little beholding to be more princely and bountifull then this was that by him being sent in Embassage from Pannonia they sate in the Councell of Trent together with the rest of the Fathers there present This thing the Emperour full well perceiued who greeted them in this sort at their returne We haue maintained you in an exceeding good Schoole why made the aduersaries no hast hither being promised to goe and come safe that they might openly haue confuted them against whom they croke like Toads out of their hoales They haue broken promise say they with Husse and Hierome who the heads of the Councell of Constance That is a lye Ioh. Huss for they made them no promise And yet Husse had not been put to death if that he false and treacherous villaine as he was not only by an escape which the Emperour Sigismundus had forbidden him vpon paine of death and being taken was brought backe againe but also by * This is false for he broke no conditions breaking certaine couenants which he had made in writing with the Emperor had not lost the benefit of that safe conduct Husse was hedged in for his hastie knauerie for whereas at his countrie in Bohem he had stirred vp barbarous tumults and was therfore commanded to appeare before the generall Councel at Constance he contemned the prerogatiue of the Councell and made suite for a safe conduct to the Emperor The * Note Emperour sealed him one all Christendome which is greater then the Emperour vnsealed it again the arch heretike would not recant and therfore he was burnt Hierome of Prage As for Hierome of Prage he came priuately without any safe conduct at all to the Councell of Constance and being apprehended did appeare and had libertie to say what he could and was verie curteously intreated and suffered to goe abroad at his pleasure Hee was cured of his disease and abiured his heresie hee fell againe and therefore was burnt But wherefore do they so often inculcate and call to memorie this one example amongst sixe hundred Anno 1518 Let them peruse their chronicles Martin Luther one hated both of God and man personallie appeared at Augusta before the Cardinall Caietane and did he not belche forth of his venemouse gorge what poysoned speeches he could and at length being protected with the Emperour Maximilians safe conduct went he not safe away Anno 1521 The same Martin Luther being sent for to come to Wormes though hee had both the Emperour and almost all the Princes of the Empire his Enemies did hee not vpon the Emperours word come and goe safe Finally did not the ring-leaders of the Lutherans and Zuinglians in the presence of Charles the fifth the open enemie to all heretikes Conqueror and soueraigne vpon a truce graunted them exhibit at an assemblie at Augusta August confess Vide acta Conc. Trid. the confession of their faith which before they had so often altered and went they not without hurt away Likewise the councell of Trent prouided for the aduersarie most large warrants to come and goe safe but he would not vse the same He beasteth forsooth of himselfe in corners where when he can vtter three greeke words he may seeme to bee a great learned man He flies from the light which would make a slender scholler to bee accounted learned and so aduance him to seates of great dignitie Let them purchase for vs English Catholikes if they loue their soules health * There is not the same reason such a safe conduct in writing wee will not alleadge Husse for our excuse but make our speedie repaire to the court putting our whole trust in the Queenes Maiesties word But that I may returne thither from whence I digressed All generall Councels are on my side the first the last the rest these shal be my weapons Let the aduersarie expect a well headed dart which he shall neuer be able to shake off God graunt that Satan in him may be quite ouerthrowne and Christ reuined WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the fourth Reason THE next place is concerning Councels not much differing from the former for what is a Councell but the flower and as it were a little modell of the whole Church And therefore whatsoeuer may be said of CouÌ„cels it appertaineth to the nature of the Church but when as these for more plainnes sake are sometimes distinguished I doe easily permit you to propound them distinctly a DVR But you coutemne the authority of the holy Ghost speaking by Councels which al the auncient Fathers haue had in singular respect WHIT. pag. 290. You accuse vs falsely for howsoeuer we assent not with you who make them shoulder the Scriptures with equall authority because we know that both they might and also haue grossely erred in many things as the Fathers haue confessed and yee your selues cannot deny yet wherein they are consonant with the Scriptures we embrace their authority and haue them in singular respect and estination And in preferring the Scripture before them we follow but the example of the Fathers August de Baptis contra Donat. lib. 2. cap. 3. idem contra Maxim lib. 3 cap. 14. de vnitat Eccle. cap. 16. Hieron in Galatas Ambros Epist. 32. Now the name of Councels is honorable their credit singular and their authority of great esteeme and you doe neuer more insolently bragge then in this place for when you doe but name Councels you thinke that you haue sufficiently confuted your aduersaries and promise vnto your selfe assured victory Neither will I go about to extenuate the dignity of Councels woÌ„dering that b DVR Nazianzene dâ—d not iudge inturiously nor writetâ— bitterly of Councels as you suppose but only aâ—fiâ—med that the fraud and malice of the heretikes of those times hindred the assembling of lawfull Councels WHIT. pag. 264. It seemeth you haue not read his Epistle or but very sleâ—gtly â—eeing he therein plainly setâ—eth downe two reasons why he absented himselfe from the Councell when he was called fâ—â—st the weaknes of his body and secondly his iudgment concerning Councels which was that he thought such assemblies were to be auoided because he had seene no good of any Synode and that hereby occasions
of euils were rather increased then taken away DVR Yea but he hath shened his contrary iudgment vvriting his Cledonius WHIT. Nothing lesse but only hee affirmeth that he vvould subscribe to the Apollinarian heretikes if they could proue that they vvere receiued of the vvest Councell vvhich hee knevv they could not Nazianzene Nazianz. Epist. 4â— ad Procop. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should so vniustly iudge and so iniuriously write of them For he saith that he had deliberated with himselfe and fully resolued to auoid Episcopall Conuocations because he had neuer seene a good issue of any Synode Which howsoeuer it hath bin true of many which by reason of the ambition and busie medling of some haue not taken away auncient controuersies but rather haue sowed the seed of new contentions yet many Councels haue been approued and commended by their most wished euent Whereas therefore you appeale to Councels we will follow you in many in their most weighty censures and decrees for in all neither do you your selues iudge it necessary But let vs now heare you discoursing concerning Councels A waighty question say you concerning lawfull cereâ—â—â—ies was cleared in a Councell of the Apostles and Fldâ—rs assembled together The children beleeued their Parents and the Sheepe their Shephâ—ard commaunding in this forme of speech It bath pleased the holy Ghost and vs. Where you make mention of a Councell most excellent and aboue all exceptions in which nothing was done rashly peruersely and factiously as sometimes in other Councels it hath been accustomed but al things diuinely and by the authority of the holy Ghost himself and therfore if we did not beleeue this Councell we were vnworthy of the name either of children or of sheep This Councel resolued that important question concerning ceremonies and freed the neckes of Christians from that most grieuous yoke of Mosaicall rites whereby the greater cause of griefe is offered vs by you who haue imposed vpon the Church contrarie to the expresse commandement of this Councell another yoke much more intolerable then that of Moses For this is cleare and manifest that the ceremonies brought into the Church by you and imposed vpon the consciences of men are twice as many as those which in time past Moses by Gods expresse commaundement inioyned vnto the people of Israell August ad Ianuar. And this is that of which c DVR Angustine vvhen he vvrit this did not after your manner carpe at Ecclesiasticall ceremonies but shevveth that be vvould not haue them instituted at euery mans pleasure For in his first Epistle to Ianuariuâ— he thus vvriteth If the vvhole Church vse any of these it iâ— insolent madnes to dispute vvhether such a thing is to be done or no WHIT. pag. 296. Augustine condemneth the multitude of ceremonies in his time and vvould haue vs rest contented vvith those few ceremonies vvhich are commended vnto vs in the Scriptures Ad Ianuar. Epist 118. cap. 1. Epist. 119.19 His vvords vvhich you alleage I vvillinglie embrace for vve vse and esteeme those ceremonies vvhich all Churches haue receiued as necessary for order and comelinesse But of this kind yours are not neither can you vvrest those speeches concerning the ceremonies of the Church to approue your Traditions seeing the Church of Rome long since ceased to be the Church of Christ Augustine long agone complained namely that by the multitudes of ceremonies the state of Christians was become worse then the state of the Iewes themselues which if Augustine spake of the ceremonies of his time how much more would he haue thus complained had he seene the great multitudes which were afterwards added to them But if the Apostles and Elders according to the meaning iudgment of the holy Ghost did determine that those ceremonies which the Lord himselfe had ordeined were to be abolished how intolerable is your boldnes who contrary to the decree of this spirit and Councell haue obtruded vpon Christians your innumerable traditions and needles ceremonies Did the Lord therfore abolish his owne ceremonies that he might establish yours did he abrogaâ—â— a few that he might bring in a multitude did he ease vs of lighter that he might impose heauier Whereby it appeareth that the diuine institution of this Councel which as it was before all other in time so aboue all other in excellency is most wickedly by you violated And is it to be thought possible that you who haue demeaned your selues so impiously towards these Parents and Pastors will be more respectiue towards others Nay there is not any Councell which you haue not long ago trodden vnder feete so that euery one of you are infoulded in a thousand excoÌ„munications And dare you Campian notwithstanding make mention of Councels which if they were in any force surely you should no more be tolerated in the Church then Publicans and Pagans There followeth this say you for the rooting out of heresie the foure general Councels of the auncient Fathers which were of such strength and authority that a thousand yeares since they were had in singular account euen as Gods word it selfe And we likewise doe freely confesse that the authority of those foure Councels was good and profitable Luthe de Concil Reade what learned Luther hath writ of those foure generall Councels and so also you may know our iudgement of them Notwithstanding there is no reason why we should assent vnto Gregorie Gregor lib. 1. Epist 24. who professeth that he doth imbrace and reuerence these foure Councels as the foure bookes of the holy Gospell For this were rather to violate the Gospell then to reuerence the Councels Although as I take it Gregories meaning was that what was decreed and concluded in these foure Councels out of Gods word against Arriuâ— Euâ—â—onius Macedonius Nostorius Eutyches and Dioscâ—ruâ— that he firmely embraced and would not suffer these decreet which are approued by the Euangelicall writings and in which this impious heresie is condemned to be reuoked and repealed no more then the Gospell it selfe neither can I imagine that it was Gregories purpose to affirme this of all these Councels that the Councell of Nice Constantinâ—ple Ephesus and Chalcedâ—n were fully equall vnto the holy Gospell in authority and dignity And so we our selues do not doubt that those things which these Fathers haue determined against those heretikes before named concerning the consubstantiall subsistence of the Father and the Sonne of the diuinity of the holy Ghost of the one person of Christ in two natures are as true as the Gospel it selfe not because these Councels so iudged and concluded but because in the Gospell the selfe same doctrine of faith is deliuered Further you say That also iâ—â—â—r owne country by our Parliaments the same Councels retaine their auncient right It is true indeed that in these and all other things which they propound if they be consonant to the holy Scriptures they doe still retaine their auncient right and dignity But lest you should
suppose that we did euer attribute thus much to these Councels that we iudge all that to be necessarily embraced whatsoeuer they haue decreed heare you now what our Church hath thought and ordained of these generall Councels Councels not only may erre but also sometimes haue erred In the Artic of Religion Artic. 21. and that in these things which belong to the rule of piety and therfore whatsoeuer by them is decreed as necessary to saluation hath no vertus nor authority vnlesse it may be shewed that it is taken ouâ— of the holy Scriptures Cite you now these words and then contest as you call it your sweet couÌ„try And in like maÌ„ner this your most deare countrie in which you were borne brought vp and graced doth contest intreat and beseech you by all those things which are vnto you most sweeâ—e and best esteemed that you desist any more in this bâ—dde cause to be troublesome vnto her that you will noâ— corrupt her children with an impious and strange religion that you will make more preciouâ— account of her dignity then of a forraine enemie and that you would at length returne thither from whence you haue straâ—ed And surely you would not contemne this speech of your country if you could euen for a litle space lay aside that preiudicate opinion which you haue sucked from Rome and brought with you hither into England But let vs heare what is this your contestation If say you you will reâ—erence these fourâ— Councels you will chiefely honâ—r the Bishop of the chiefâ— Sâ—â— that is Peter And so do we ascribe great honour vnto Peter and that worthily neither doe we contend with you about him but this affirme that those things which were proper vnto Peter cannot in any wise appertaine to your Pope who was neuer like either Peter or Paul And in truth what madnes is this so insolently to bragge of Peters great vertues when in the meane time you cannot proue that your Popes are indued with any such Do you suppose that any man that is in his right wits will thinke that Peters faith piety and all the rest of his vertues haue bin deriued to your Pope by a lineall descent from so many other Popes of whom a great number were not men but monsters This doubtlesse is a grosse dotage and fit to be taken away Quouis helleboro dignum with the mad mans purge and as one saith for those diseases reprehension is the best maâ—â—â—r of cure Should I entitle your Gregoriâ— the 13. who now gouerneth at Rome with the name of Peter doth he teach doth he feed Christs sheepe surely he cannot Doth he performe the duty of an Apostle or of a Bishop nothing lesse How therfore doth he demeane himselfe Sitting in the Vatican he prouoketh to warre moueth seditions armeth subiects against their Princes and filleth the whole world with vproâ—â—â—â— Did Peter thus behaue himselfe is this to be Peter can you deny that these things be true and shall I then yeeld vnto him the like honor that is due to Peter being so vnlike him in conditions But let vs further examine your words You will say you chiefely honor the Bishop of the chiefe Sea that is Peter but by what Councell doe you proue that necessary you alleage the Councell of Nice Can. 6. In which there is not so much as any mention of the Bishop of the chiefe Sea or of Peter neither in truth could any thing be produced of greater force against your Bishop then that decree of Nicene Synode for it matcheth all Metropolitanes and Patriarkes in an equall ranke of honor with the Bishop of Rome neither doth it attribute any more to him then vnto the Metropolitanes of Antioch Alexandria and the rest of the other Prouinces If you please you shall heare the words of the Councell Concil Nicen Can. 6. d DVR This cause by you alleadged maketh much for establishing the authority of the Romane Sea ouer all Churches For vvhen as the Fathers to proue the authority of the Bishop of Alexandria alleage the custome of the Church of Rome they shew hereby that Alexandria dependeth vpon Rome as the mother Church froÌ„ which she hath all her authority And that this was their mind appeareth by the words of Paschasmus the Popes Legat in the Councell of Chalcedon is also proued by the 39. Canon translated out of Arabicke into Latin The same Fathers likevvise assembled at Sardis approued the Supremacy of the Romane Sea WHIT. pag. 299. Nothing could be alleadged more direct against the Romish Supremacy then this Canon wherin their own proper limits of iurisdiction are assigned to euery Metropolitane For if the Pope should rule ouer the whole Church it had bin absur'd to limit euery one their owne borders wherein they should haue supreame authority according to the custome of the Church of Rome Neither doth this proue the supremacy of the Romish Church because they alleadge her custome and example as you ignorantly inferre seeing an example may be taken aswell from an equall or inferiour as from a superious It is no maruell if Paschasinus being the Popes Legate spake for the supremacy of the Romane Sea neither is his testimony to be regarded being a party Your Arabicke Canon is meerely Arabicke and not Nicene for of this Councel there were only 20. Canons written in Greek and not in the Arabian tongue The Canon of the Councell of Sardis helpeth you not seeing the Councell of Africke testifieth that iâ— was counterfeite Let the ancient custome be in force which was in Aegypt Libya and Pentapolis that the Bishop of Alexandria haue the chiefe dignity ouer all these things because also this was the custome of the Bishop of Rome and in like manner at Antioch and in the rest of the Prouinces let the Primacy and authority be receiued vnto the Churches You see Campian I suppose that no extraordinary prerogatiue hath been giuen to the Bishop of Rome and that his Prouince and Iurisdiction hath been circumscribed within determined bounds and borders Ruffin lib. Decimâ— And after this same manner doth Ruffinus if you do not credit vs interpret this Canon This Auncient custome is obserued at Alexandria and in the citie of Rome that the Bishop of Alexandria take the charges of Aegypt and the Bishop of Rome of the Churches of the cities neire adioyning And therefore let the Bishop of Rome take care of the bordering Churches of the neighbour cities with which the Nicene Synode hath enioyned him to rest satisfied and hereafter let him not trouble himselfe with the care of our Churches which appertaine not vnto his charge And so you see that if you had been well aduised you would neuer haue mentioned this Councell Act. 4.16 But you adioyne also vnto this the Councell of e DVR The Councell of Chalcedon standeth so directly for the supremacy of the Romane Sea that you ca with no shifts auoid it For therein
be quenched But you are alwaies harping vpon this string that they are bound by the lawes of a vowe Cyprian lib. 1. Epist. 1. 1. Pet. 1. therefore let Cyprian make you answere Å¿ DVR The words of Cyprian are not to be vnderstood of Virgins already consecrated vnto God but he willeth those who will not perseuere in virginitie that they doe not consecrate themselues to Christ but rather marry WHIT. pag. 343. Cyprian speaketh plainly of such Virgins as vvere alreadie consecrated for hee reprehendeth such as hauing consecrated themselues to Christ did liue incontinently and vvilleth them if they vvill not perseuere in chastitie to marrie lib. 1. Epistol 11. And Erasmus thought thus as appeareth by a marginall note of his Here marriages are permitted to holy Virgins If they haue by their vowe consecrated themselues to Christ 1. Pet. 1. let them perseuere honestly and chastely without any feined deuises But if they will not or cannot perseâ—ere their best course is to marrie And would Cyprian thinke you Campian haue giuen this counsell to Virgins if he had iudged such marriages wicked or no better than publike incest as you in your intemperate stile tearme it And indeed how much more honest course were it for you Monkes and Friers to auoid your too too publike and notoriously wicked fornication by imbracing chaste marriage for so it might come to passe Plus secund as your olde Pope Pius was wont to say That many of you might be saued in marriage which are now damned in single life But he that is filthie let him goe forward in his filthines vnto his olde age and let him that is holy â—lie vncleanenesse and prefer sanctimonie of life before vice and wickednes And these are the maine matters which you haue deliuered vnto vs in that your graue contestation and haue laboured to perswade by interposing the authoritie of Councels But you might haue considered Campian that the counterfeit names of Councels ought to be of farre lesse authoritie with vs then the most vndoubted truth of Gods word And whereas you further affirme that The Synods of other times and namely that of Trent are of equall authoritie and credit with those first Councels I must tell you I beleeue you not although you promise and take vpon you to proue it when need requires You promise indeed much but performe nothing But here I intreate the godly Reader and beseech all Christians that they would attentiuely marke what Campian here auoucheth to wit that all Synodes and namely that of Trent are equall to the foure generall Councels which foure Councels are by t DVR Gregorie doth not match the foure Councels in equall authoritie vvith the foure Gospels but onely saith that as hee doth vndoubtedly and certainely beleeue the scriptures so also the foure Councels WHIT. pag. 348. Gregorie saith that he doth imbrace and reuerence the foure Councels as the foure bookes of the Gospell Epist libr. 1. Epist. 24. And what is this but to make them equall For if there bee any inequalitie wo cannot imbrace and reuerence them both alike Gregory whom Campian citeth marched in equall authoritie with the foure Gospels from whence it necessarily followeth that all Councels of other times are of the same authoritie and credit with the foure Euangelists I will not vrge this poynt further neither will I now shake you vp as you vsually doe Master Luther but rather leaue you to bee beaten with the rod of mens silent iudgements After this you being shadowed with this impenitrable shield of Councels enter the lists and obserue whether your aduersarie conuaieth himselfe for so great a warrier you are such a skilfull Champion and so fierce in fight that assoone as you but shew your selfe forthwith all your enemies betake them to their heeles and eftsoones you declare how you meane to behaue your selfe in this fight and what a great slaughter you intend to make But take heede Campian least that may worthilie be applied to you which is spoken in the Prouerbes He that is rashly confident before the conflict is commonly a coward in the combate You speake much of the dignitie of Councels which we also acknowledge to be very great but neuerthelesse the holy Ghost is not bound to multitudes of men to stately preparations nor to sumptuous pompe And we may often obserue that in Councels there is much contending amongst contrarie factions and sometimes the greater part preuaileth against the better You say that Luther durst presume to affirme that hee preferred the iudgement and suffrages of two good and learned men before the Councels And in truth why might he not preferre them and who could iustly finde fault with that speech Seeing Gerson the Moderator of the Councell of Constance doubted not to preferre the iudgement of one man before the whole Councell u DVR Gerson did neuer preferre the iudgement of one man before a vvhole Councell WHIT. pag. 349. It is vntrue for he thus writeth We ought rather to bâ—leeue in a point of â—octrine a simple man not authorised but yet excellently learned in the scriptures theÌ„ the Pope Againe a man thus learned ought to oppose himselfe against a generall Councell if he perceiue that the greater part incline to that which is contrary to the Gospel either through malice or ignorance Gers de exam doctr 1. par Considerat 5. We are saith he to giue more credit vnto a man learned in the holy Scriptures alleaging catholike authority then to a generall Councell Tit. de elect can signifiâ—â—sti which also Paâ—ormitan hath confirmed writing in this manner We ought saith he rather to beleeue a simple lay man alleaging the Scripture than the whole Councell together You say further That Kemnisius dared to peise the Councell of Trent in the ballance of his owne giddie braine But Kemnisius did not examine that Councell by his owne square but by the rule of Gods holy word And what gained he say you and answering your selfe in your owne question you say nothing but infamie If Kemnisius haue not your good word it is no great wonder for he hath atchieued that by his learning vertue and industrie that he may seeme worthie of enuie and hatred from such as you are But if true and deserued praise be due to good deeds he hath obtained an honourable reward euen the euerlasting glorie of a good name Yea say you if he take not heede he shall be buried with Arrius But it behooued you Campian to trouble your head rather about your owne then Kemnisius his funerals and take you heede least for your euill deedes there be a sepulchre prouided for you amongst the damned Now here againe you begin more highly to extoll the Councell of Trent as though we knew not the notable carriage and behauiour of that famous and goodly Synode But for my part I easilie allow you to be so farre in loue with it neither in truth will I become your riuall
370. When did I euer grant Campian so much I should certeinly doe the Fathers great iniury if I should adiudge them for Campian who are so farre different from him And for your kindred with them it is but as the Iewes were Abrahams children for if you were the children of the Fathers you would hold the faith of the Fathers For the Scribes and Pharisies were not the children of Moses because they sate in Moses chaire Neither are they the children of the Saints who hold the places of the Saints as Hierome Neither haue they the inheritance of Peter which haue not the faith of Peter as Ambrose neither ought faith to be tried by persons but persons by saith as Tertullian hath written We verily loue and duly reuerence the Fathers yet wee acknowledge but one Father in heauen and one teacher which is Christ And if you acknowledge them wholy your Fathers why doe you forsake many of their opinions therefore are these Fathers wholie on your side what is this else but dotage and to speake without witte or feare Some body said that Ambrose was bewitched by the diuell Ambrose whether any euer said it or no I neuer knew neither is it greatly materiall the best most righteous men may sometimes be so farre bewitched as they doe not in some things perceiue the truth and you doe too openly bewray your malice by labouring to raise an euill opinion of him and to make vs infamous for such speeches as may haue a good construction though at the first they seeme odious Certeinly I haue read many Papists and heard of some all passing shamelesse and malepere but more impudent then your selfe in all my life did I neuer know any There is no end of your lying you feare no mens censure there is neither faith nor truth in any thing you speake Euen now you set vpon Beza with a fresh lye He you say hath written that Hierome is as surely damned as the diuell because he was iniurious to the Apostles a blasphemous a wicked and an vngodly man That Beza affirmeth not these things I protest and aâ—ow let any man that will see the place if it be otherwise let me be accounted very infamous For as for those first words that Hierome was damned aswell aâ— the diuell either they are by malicious cauelling fetched out of some other place as all the rest are or altogether forged as the most In the place alledged there is no such thing Concerning that he saith of Iniury and Blasphemy I will set downe Beza his owne words that all men may know your impudency Euen Hierome Beza in annot noui Testam in Act. Apost cap. 23. saith Beza if it be true that Erasmus vpon this place saith of him is not only iniurious to the Apostle in that hee findeth want of moderation in this speech wherin rather appeareth his Diuine courage but also is openly blasphemous in that euen in Christ himselfe he hath found some signe of imperfection Thus far Beza the matter of his complaint is about S. Paules sharpe answere vnto the high Priest in which Hierome as Erasmus testifieth in his Dialogues against Pelagius findeth some want of moderatioÌ„ not only so but euen in Christ himself he looketh for some imperfection of piety which reports of Hierome if it be true as Erasmus affirmeth why might not Beza iustly esteeme him in the one iniurious to the Apostle in the other so blasphemous against Christ For what can bee deuised more vnworthy the Apostle then that in his answere to the high Priest he should shew too much spleene or what could be spoken more blasphemous against Christ theÌ„ that the grace wherewith he was indued was imperfect But Beza further reprehendeth Hieromes exceeding boldnes in wresting the Scriptures wherein he hath most iust cause of complaint for either Hierome wrested the Scriptures or they are so weake and easie of themselues as they may be any way turned And truly he must be very desperate that should defend Hieromes interpretations Gregorius Massonius esteemeth more of Caluin then of a thousand Augustines Luther is not moued though a thousand Austens Cyprians Churches be against him The answere is ready whosoeuer speaketh truth in that respect is more to be esteemed then a great multitude that could not discerne the truth They therfore that haue obserued the errors of the Fathers either those you haue named or the rest which heere also you recken vp Optatus Athanasius Hilarie Cyrill Epiphanius Basil Vincentius Fulgentius Lee and Gregory of Rome and haue admonished the Readers of them are so farre from malepertnes herein as that coÌ„trary they haue performed a work for the Church needfull profitable and acceptable to all good and godly men For as the true expositions of Scriptures are to bee expounded to the Churches so are the contrary to bee reiected Hierom. Paul August Hierome saith well it is the worst kind of teaching to depraue sentences of Scripture and to draw them perforce to serue our turnes Wherefore we professe with Augustine All writers and their sayings must bee i DVR That trial must not be made by Apostate Monks but by lawfull Pastors and doctors WHIT. pag. 372. And why not I pray you is it because they are Monkes I thinke not or because they haue departed froÌ„ you That is the matter as it none might touch reade examine the scriptures but those who haue plight their troth to you neuer to assent to the Scriptures though they directly coÌ„tradict popish doctrin we would willingly harkeÌ„ to lawfull Pastors examining interpreting the Scriptures such as you haue none Because with you examinatioÌ„s must not be made by the rule of the scriptures but after the wil of the Pope and all your Pastors haue tyed theÌ„selues to the iudgemeÌ„t of the Romish Antichrist that that which they see they wil not see if it displease the Pope by whose spirit they are guided iudged according to the holy Scriptures the authority wherof is more excellent then the whole nature of man is able to conceiue not that I disallow the opinions of the most worthy Fathers but I follow those that come nearest vnto the Scriptures and when the Scripture it selfe is manifest I embrace it before them all Whereas then we consider the sayings of the Fathers and examine them by the light of Scriptures we do here nothing vnwonted nothing boldly or arrogantly but you haue alwaies been fliers of the light of Scriptures as Tertullian speaketh Tertul. de Resurrect and therefore do so diligently prouide for lurking holes in the Fathers that you may alwaies haue some place of refuge For seeing Scriptures faile you what remaineth but that you seeke aide from any euen the meanest But you tell vs why we do so much anoid the Fathers I had rather you would tell vs why you doe so carefully auoide the Scriptures For say you they that cannot away with set times of Fasting must needs be
the Iewes â—innikeâ— and Idolaters but out of the schooles of Christians which may not be polluted with Images the schoole of the holy Ghost nor found y DVR You shevv your ignorance or impudency vvhen you knovv not or deny that vvhich is euery vvhereto be read among the Fathers as in Theodoret Domasen Augustine Gregory Nissen Metaphrastes Athanasius and others WHIT. pag. 399. These testimonies do rather shew your rashnes desire to deceiue for they are partly faired as that of Gregory Nissen and Athanasius partly not to the purpose by them I vnderstand that Images were made but they proue not that they were placed in the churches worshipped Your reason concludeth not There were Images among the ChristiaÌ„s before the times of Gregory therfore they placed them in their churches to teach the people and to be worshipped of them with holy worship it in the books of the Fathers that were before him and thus at length haue you finished this longe catalogue of the Fathers The reason I would faine know that moued you to go thorough them on this manner For what are you so blockish your selfe to thinke or hope you that any others will like of this kind of reasoning viz. Luther Caluin and their confederates doe write that Irenaus Tertullian Cyprian Chrysostome Augustine Hierome Ambrose Gregory Basil and Naziâ—â—zen do otherwiles erre in some questions in this or that booke and they saw not the true meaning of some Scripture but were sometimes deceiued that is they were men therefore they banish reiect and condemne all these Fathers Is this your meaning Campian why then do you your selues being verie often by plaine authorities of the Fathers coÌ„uinced deny flatly that you are tyed to the authority of any father and from them you appeale to the iudgment of the Church Would you not thinke your self hardly dealt withal if hence I should inferre that you disallow the Fathers whole volumes But this is the issue of your disputation and the marke whereat all this your discourse aymeth namely that because we dislike some things in the Fathers which in their writings cannot be defended therefore we violate all we offer great wrong and reproach to the Fathers we commit a hainous and vnhard-of wickednes Thinke not Campian our Vniuersitie to be so childish that they cannot discerne the indifferencie of our proceeding herein from your vniust calumniation The Fathers wee esteeme highly wee peruse them daily we commend them to the reading of all such as exactly and diligently studie Diuinitie By this meanes we encrease our knowledge and are better furnished with armour of defence against you You are afraide to want time and therefore you omit many things Epistles Sermons Homilies Orations Works Disputations of Fathers by which the Catholikes opinions are confirmed Some fragments perhaps say you throwne in corners which without much paines and wearines you could not collect yet your fellowes of late yeares haue diligently sought out and published Whilest they say you are to be solde at the Stationers so long our mens bookes are in vaine prohibited we are sorry you should write such things as we must of necessitie restraine your bookes are such as it behooueth vs to stoppe their passage vnlesse we would suffer the State to be stirred to sedition the Church in danger of heresie and mens minds filled with cursed opinions For if Magistrates ought carefully to preuent lest the infection of the plague be from other places brought into their cities much more care is to be had that pestilent and pernicious bookes bee nor openly spread abroad out of which simple and vnlearned men doe sucke poyson of deadly error Neither are we the first that haue taken this course You may remember in Queene Maries time that they proceeded by marshall law against all those with whom any of our bookes were found If this were in vs a matter worthie of death so that we were by and by drawne to punishment as men guiltie of high treason and that without any iudâ—â—â—al proceedings small reason haue you to looke that your bookes now should haue such free libertie to bee euery where publikelie solde We take order that the bookes of the holy Fathers are brought vnto vs from euery matte we buie them we haue them in our priuate studies and publike Liberarie a woâ— place them in open view that they be knowns nor onely by face but by dailie familiaricie Where you affirme that neither Sanders nor Harding nor Allen nor Stapleton nor Bristol doe more â—â—gerly inneigh against those dreames then the Fatherd before mentioned you haue added this saying as an ouerplus to the things that went before These your old souldiers haue imployed in this case whatsoeuer either reading or leysure or cunning or wit or diligence or malice could supply vnto them and for all this haue gained nothing and hope you that are not worthy to be compared with these to performe that wherein they haue failed yet you said that thinking of these things your courage increased and you desired the combate I bewaile Campian your rashnes and foolish hardines which will needs take vpon you the patronage of a desperate cause with the vndoubted losse of your credit and safety and I wish that the day may once come wherin you may make triall of your strength in the combate which you desire Iohn Iewel say you challenged the Catholikes when you were a young student calling vpon and desiring the helpe of the Fathers as many as flourished 600. yeares after Christ That worthy man did that he knew himselfe able to performe he had read ouer all the Fathers with speciall iudgement and diligence hee saw how you deceiued the ignorant he had a care to preserue his countrimen from your dangerous error And hereupon without any boasting as you would haue it but trusting only in the power of God and the truth of the cause he calleth forth all the generation of Papists vnto this triall viz. if they could confirme their opinions by the holy Scriptures or by the witnes of Fathers and Councels they should ouercome if they failed they should confesse themselues were vanquished Certeine renowmed men say you liuing as Exiles as Loâ—ane entertaine thâ— offer and allow of the condition Harding was the captaine of these he aduentured himselfe hand to hand in this combate but how worthily performed he the condition Iâ—wel calleth for Fathers Harding produceth certeine Clements Abdies Martials Hippolyes Amphilochytes and others of this rancke Fathers of worshipfull antiquitie If all the auncient Fathers of the Church be as you bragge of your side why should Harding turne his backe so cowardly bringing in for witnesses in a most waighty cause wherin we demaunded the iudgement of antiquitie a company of vpstart bastards I know not fromwhence whom no man before had saluted seene or heard of passing by of purpose the knowne and truly noble Fathers Is this the reuerend antiquity you talke of must wee haue these
fellowes digged out of their graues to helpe you in your desperate cause heare me Campian that which Iewel then said most truly and confidently challenging you to the triall of sixe hundred yeares antiquity offering also to yeeld you the victory if you brought one plaine and manifest authority out of any Father or Councell that same we do all professe and promise and will surely performe it Twentie yeares are expired and not one of you hitherto could performe the condition if you perswade your selfe to haue more sufficiency hereunto then your masters before haue had why stay you why sit you still why discontinue you the defence of so good a cause But alas you are no body you haue read nothing you haue no strength answerable to such an endeuor The learned Humphrey did not taxe Iewel as if he had too liberally vndertaken for the Fathers or performed lesse then he promised but only that he had yeelded further vnto you then he needed and called backe the cause which was already determined by the Scriptures to the authorities of the Fathers which yet he did not as though he distrusted any thing the triall of Scriptures for hee knew that they were sufficient to refute all popish errors but that hereby he might beate downe that their insolent and most false bragge of antiquitie which preuailed with many You say further that you haue conferred sometimes familiarly with Toâ—y Matthew and wâ—â—led him to answere freely whether hee that read the Fathers diligently could bee of that part which â—e fauoured Although in priuate and familiar conference wee say many things which we would not haue further reported or dispersed yet I doubt not but the worthy Mathew gaue you such an answere as was both agreeable to the truth and fit for his iudgement and wisdome Wee must not in all things beleeue the Fathers nor doth our faith depend vpon their word Sometimes they haue erred and been the occasion of errors vnto others yet may we reade them by their truthes be more learned by the contrary more wary And this also thinketh Matthew Hutton that famous man whom you surmise to bee the only man amongst vs conuersant in the Fathers And this also is all our opinions After you haue thus finished your discourse you will now as you say without feare come into the battell and fight with vs. You are still telling vs of armies skirmishes warres campes and of your battailes but you should remember that the triall of warre is common to both sides and the issues of battailes vncerteine The and of warre lieth in the strength of armes not in the stoutnes of words EDMVND CAMPIAN The sixt Reason which is the foundation of the Fathers IF euer that saying a Iob. 5. search the Scriptures was loued and liked of by any which was greatly regarded and ought to be amongst vs the holy Fathers assuredly herein excelled and exceeded for by their labour and cost were the Bibles copied out and conueyed to so many countries and nations of strange languages by their great perils and torments were they deliuered from burning by the enemies and from destruction by their paines and teachings haue they been throughout expounded most faithfully they spent whole daies and nights in the study of holy Scriptures they preached out of euery Pulpit the holy Scriptures they enriched long volumes with holy Scriptures with most faithful Commentaries they explained the holy Scriptures they seasoned as well their feasting as their fasting with holy Scriptures And finally they exercised themselues euen vntill crooked old age crept vpon them in holy Scriptures And although they grounded their reasons also vpon the authority of their Auncestors vppon the common practise of the Church vpon the succession of Bishops vpon generall Councels vpon Traditions of the Apostles vpon the bloodshedding of Martyrs vpon the decrees of Preâ—â—â—s vpon strange signes and marnâ—â—â—â—us â—â—â—racles yet their greatest desire was especially to fill their treatises with store of testimonies out of the holy Scriptures These they vrge vpon these they make their habitation to these Scriptures as vnto the coate b Cant. 4. armor of valiant souldiers they worthily yeeld the highest and most honorable place like noble captaines daily desending the Catholike Church which is the citie of God by them kept in good repaire against all mischeeuous assaults of her enemie the which thing maketh me the more to maruell at that proud and foolish exception of the aduersarie who like one that seeketh for water in the running riuer complaineth for the scarsity of Scriptures where greatest store of Scriptures are alleadged So long he saith he is content to be iudged by the Fathers as they swarue not from the Scriptures Doth he speake as he thinketh I will see then that these most famous writers most auncient Fathers and most holy men Saint Denys S. Cyprian S. Athanasius S. Basil S. Gregory Nazianzen S. Ambrose S. Hierome S. Chrysostome S. Augustine and S. Gregory the great shall come forth wel armed and vpholden with Christ with the Prophets with the Apostles and with the whole furniture of the Bible Grant good Lord that that religion may * And at this day the same faith flourisheth in England which those Fathers did had and defended raigne in England I say good Christ grant that that religion may raigne in England that these Fathers that embrace the Scriptures so louingly haue builded vp out of the Scriptures Looke what Scriptures they bring wee will bring the same looke what Scriptures they conferre we will conferre the same looke what Scriptures they alleadge we will alleadge the same Art thou also contented with this cough out Sir a Gods name and tell me plainly what you thinke I like them not thou wilt say except they interpret the said Scriptures rightly what meanest thou by saying rightly ô now I know after thy owne fancy Art thou not ashamed of this blind intreate dealing Then for as much as I am in good hope that in the foresaid Vniuersities that most freshly flourish there will ioyne together a great number of such as will looke into these controuersies not grosely but with sharpe iudgement and wil weigh these mens trifling answere not partially but in equall ballance I will therefore with a chearefull courage expect this day of battell as one that mindeth to march forward with the nobility force of Christs Church against a monkesâ— multitude of ragged Rogues WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the sixth Reason which is the foundation of the Fathers I Cannot wel coÌ„iecture Campion what these new foundations of the fathers may bee which you propound vnto vs. As touching the fathers we haue giuen you your answere and haue plainely prooued that they affoord no foundation for you to build your cause vpoÌ„ And it is probable that you thought so your self therefore you iudged it not safe for you to rest in them vnlesse you brought foorth certaine foundations by which you might strengthen the
fathers themselues For after you had said what you could remember touching the fathers that you might shew you esteemed their sayings as diuine Oracles because you saw that was too slender and that no man would iumpe with you in that point you now indeuour by certaine foundations to fortifie and strengthen the authoritie of the Fathers Now the strength and as it were the bond and sinewes of this disputation is this a DVR Campian doth not dispute so but say he do what reproue you for he speaketh not of one Father but of the consent of all vvho flourished in one age whom Saint Paul saith Christ hath made Pastors and teachers of his Church Eph. 4.11 WHIT. pag. 408. Then as you confesse I swarued not much from his sense But thinke you the reason is of force The auncient Fathers haue diligently read and searched the Scriptures therefore they neuer erred in their interpretation If iâ— hold in the Fathers why not in others vvhich do search the Scriptures as vvell as they vvhich if you once grant you ouerturne your owne cause And though they were Pastors of the Church yet vvere there many other Pastors and teachers of the Church vvho either vvrit nothing at all or their vvritings are perished so that vvhat they deliuered vve possibly cannot knovv vvhat a vaine thing is it then to bragge of the consent of all vvhen you can hardly name tvventy in the most flourishing age that euer vvas vvhose bookes came to our hands Besides the consent of all in one age in no controuersie can you bring against vs except it vvere in the most corrupt ages Lastly the Pastors Christ gaue to his Church vvere men such as might erre and vvho had no promise to be kept from error if at any time they turned aside from the Scriptures The Fathers haue searched the Scriptures most diligently they haue heaped vp store of testimonies out of the holy Scriptures they haue attributed the chiefe place to these therefore wee ought to bee content with their exposition of Scriptures and without sinne wee may desire no better This either is the sense of this place or else there is no sense in it And verely I professe you haue laid these things downe so faintlie and looselie that I can hardlie discerne their scope for what I pray you can bee spoken more loosely The fathers haue diligently laboured to vnderstand the Scriptures therefore in their exposition of them they haue neuer erred But we find many strange differing and dissenting expositions in the Fathers which all may well be false but more then one of them cannot be true I will giue you one example for a thousand b DVR VVe confesse euery Father may errâ— but we deny that all the Fathers of one age did euer fall into any error which vvas contrary to faith WHIT. pag. 412. As if this vvere not a matter of faith vvhether S. Paul lyed or vvhether he ingenuously reproued S. Peter as he professed he did For if S. Paul did it dissemblingly then may it be lavvfull for vs to dissemble and after confirme it vvith a lye both vvhich are contrary to sound doctrine But particular dissentions you stand not vpon you desire to see some generall vvhen you grant euery particular may erre vvill it not follovv that all may But see an example In the Councell of Constantinople held vnder Leo the Pope the Fathers there decreed to abolish Images out of Churches But the Nicene Councell vnder Iren. condemned this Canon yea and by a third Councell held in Germany this decree vvas againe condemned One of these certeinly must needs be deceiued Againe haue you forgotten that Augustine vvith Innocent the Bishop of Rome other Bishops of the Church did thinke it necessary that the Eucharist should be giuen to Infants vvhich error continued a long time in the Church Thinke you these are not points of faith S. Paul writeth Gala. 2.11 that at Antioch hee withstood Peter to his face what a kinde of opposition this was you would know but cannot of your selfe find it out You wonder that Paul would oppose Peter one Apostle another and happely you suspect some mystery may be hid in it you goe to the fathers you enquire of Hierome August Hieron in Epistol and of Augustine two very famous lights of the Latine Church What do they tell you Augustine thinke that S. Paul spoke ingenuously and as he thoughte Hierome that he spoke fainedly If you approue the one you must needs reiect the other for you cannot consent with both Sixe hundred of this kind I could propound vnto you I know how sayth Hierome otherwise to account of the Apostles then of other writers Hieron in Epist. ad Theophilis They euer spâ—â—kâ— the trâ—â—â— these as man haue erred in some things Yet they read the Scriptures they were conuersant in them and spent themselues wholly in meditating vpon them From these you may discerne how your accusation is most vniust and our defence most equall and iust I desire not to diminish the fathers due and worthy commendations so you will confesse they are men extoll them with all the prayses you can to the very heauens where they are now free Denizens I could wish that that which they constantly did either you would do search the Scripture or suffer vs to do then I doubt not but this fight would haue a good issue But the Scriptures which Christ ratified with his owne voice and commended to our diligent search you flie from and abhorre as theeues doe the gallowes you abandon them out of mens sight and yet you haue neuer done searching for you compasse sea and land to find out old traditions and customes long ago dead and buried mens inuentions decrees of Popes the corruptions of Churches fained and forged bookes diriges scrappes dreames and fables but the holy Scripture you touch not at all lest as I suppose they would make against you At length for shame cast away those your trifles which you so busily hunt after and search the Scriptures c DVR VVe allow all to read the Scriptures as many as can vvell and safely do it And then vve account the search good and sound vvhen men are able to interpret them not out of their ovvne heads but by the authority of the auncient Fathers WHIT pag. 415. You shew your good nature that you will not reproue that which is well done But may none else reade the Scriptures but men qualified as you write then very few must spend their labour in them But Christ commanded to search the Scriptures not the opinions and exposition of the Fathers yea and he commaunded all whosoeuer to seeke eternall life and desire to know Christ Joh. 5.39 and not the learned only as Christ hath commaunded Origen in Isas hom 1. and the ancient fathers haue done And would to God as Origen writeth we all would doe that which is written Search the
and authoritie with him and forbids all appeales to the Bishop of Rome Therefore he must needes deest your Pope who preferreth himselfe both in dignity authority before all other Bishops from all parts drawes vnto his courts all appeales i DVR Cyprian in this place speaketh not at all touching any appeale WHIT. pag. 434. If you consider the place well you shall find that he inueigheth against certaine false Bishops who being condemned by the voices and censures of the Bishops of Afrike for iust causes vvould haue the causes pleaded againe at Rome before Cornelius the Bishop And in his discourse 1. He shevved that causes ought to be heard vvhere the crimes are committed And so not things done in Afrike at Rome 2. He affirmeth that euery Bishop hath his portion of the flocke for which he must giue an account Then not the Bishop of Rome the vvhole nor the administration of all causes finally he calleth them desperate and forlorne men vvho thought the authority of the Bishops of Afrike to bee lesse then of the Bishops of other countries and so vvith reproach hee reiecteth the supreame authoritie of the Bishop of Rome Is there heere any thing lesse then vve haue affirmed Lactantius writeth that it is a thing without questioÌ„ Lactan. 2. cap. 19. k DVR Lactantius speaketh not of the Images of Christians but of the Idols of the Heathen vvhich he condemneth because they are made of the earth besides the Ieves had their Cherubins WHIT. pag. 436. He nameth not Idols but Images such as your Church is full of and so can there be no religion in it Besides your Images are no more heauenly then theirs but made of the earth as theirs who pretended for themselues as he vvriteth lib. 2. cap. 2. as you do that they vvorshipped not the Images but the God expressed by them Further for the Cherubins they were placed in the most holy place into vvhich the people might not enter not yet looke in and shevv vs particular precepts for yours as they had for theirs and vve haue done But he that commanded theirs forbiddeth euery vvhere all others There can be no religion wheresoeuer there is an image If hee now liued and saw your Churches full of images would he acknowledge any signe of true Religion Athanasius affirmeth Athanas conts a Gentas That the holy Scriptures giuen by inspiration are sufficient to instruct men in all trueth wherein with one word hee hath put to slight the whole armies of your l DVR VVill not all your Vniuersity men account you a cosener vvhen Athanasius ioyneth the bookes of the Fathers with the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 438. If Athanasius say asmuch as I affirme The Scriptures are sufficient of themselues vvhy do you reptoach me but he addeth the bookes of the Fathers he doth but not as traditions differing from the Scriptures but as Commentaries vpon them For saith he by reading of them a man may in some measure vnderstand the sense of the Scripture These vvords make not for you neither against vs therefore I vsed neither cosening nor disceite traditions Epiphanius sharply reprooueth certaine foolish women Epipham lib. 3. Haeres 79. who worshipped the virgine Mary with a certaine new kind of worship and condemneth all that superstition m DVR Epiphanius speaketh nothing of the adoring of the Saints but reproueth â—omen for offering vp sacrifices to the Virgin Mary aâ— to a Gâ—â—ldâ—â—â—e WHIT. pag. 440. Nay he speaketh against the adoration and honoring of Saints and not of sacrificing only his vvords are plaine â—et none of the Saints be adored The vvord he vseth signifieth to bovv and prostrate our selues and to vvorship one vvith Diuine honor vvhich being proper to God you impiously giue to the Virgin Mary and to other innumerable Saints Let none saith he worship the Virgine Mary What would he say if hee now saw not onely foolish women but also men and all mortall wights n DVR No Câ—tâ—oâ—ike doth offer vp sacrifice or performe vowes to the Virgin Mary WHIT. Yet you confesse you do such things to the honor of the Virgin and other Saints I pray you what may be the meaning of this you offer vp sacrifices and vowes to God in honor of the Saints let me demaund of you as Epiphanius of these women what Scriputre â—peaketh any thing of this matter Then answere your Masses are they offered to the Virgin Mary or for her whether soeuer Epiphanius saith It is foolish strange and that vvhich proceeded from the spirit of Diuels Againe who knoweth not that you offer vp prayers and intercessions to the Virgin Mary and all Saints And no man is found either so greatly couetous or so little superstâ—tious but he voweth somewhat to some Saint specially to the Virgin Mary offering vp sacrifices and vowes to the Virgine Mary Basil in Epist ad Cleric Neocaesariae Basil is the author that in his dayes there was a o DVR Basil doth not say it was the custome of all Churches WHIT. pag. 442. It seemeth you haue not read Basil reade the place and you shall find these words there The câ—â—ome we now keepe is consonant and agreeable to all the Churches of God And he reckoneth the Churches of Aegypt Afrike Thebes Palestine and all who vse singing of Psalmes custome in all Churches that the people repeated the Psalmes in the holy assemblies But in your Churches the people can p DVR As if the publike prayers of the Church did not profit the people vnlesse they vnderstand the 〈◊〉 what a foolish dreame is this WHIT. pag. 443. We had rather dreame with the Apostle then watch with you for thus S. Paul speaketh 1. Cor. 14 4.5.6 He that speaketh a strange tongue speaketh not vnto men but vnto God vers 6. If I come vnto you speaking diuers tongues what shall I profit you Strange tongues then profit not vnlesse your tongues haue some more Diuine power then the Apostles tongue had neither heare nor vnderstand those things which are read but are onely deluded with ridiculous gestures and pompous shewes q DVR Gregorie neuer thought so but in the same place he commendeth the solitary life as more excellent then any humane condition neither speaketh he of the common life of Christians but of that vvhich is spent in the duties of charity WHIT. pag. 444. I proue it easily out of his words Hierome the Philosopher saith he proposed vnto himselfe to know whether of our liues vvas more to be vvished for and more profitable to the end he might make choice of it And when he knew that euery man was not borne for himselfe only but for all others who beare the same nature with him he embraced this common life rather then that solitary life Doth he not now preferre this life and from the praise he giueth the other he hath somewhat detracted when he sheweth that it is only for themselues and so lesse
of the Father To be God he hath that of f DVR If the Sonne of God haue not his essence from the Father surely be is not the Sonne of the Father WHIT. pag. 542. And vvhy so did Caluin euer deny that the Son hath his essence from the Father he and vve all teach that the Sonne vvas begotten of the Fathers essence and that the Sonne hath the vvhole essence of the Father and that not by decision or propagation as the wicked Pritheâ—â—s dreame but by coÌ„munication And yet hâ—â—e you multiply Scriptures and Fathers needlesly This vve say Christ is God of himselfe but in this sense that that essence vvhich is in the Sonne is not from any other essence but of and from himselfe seeing that the essence of the Father and the Sonne is one and the same For essence as Basil truly vvriteth against Eunomius cannot be generated and pag. 543. vvherefore Christ so farre forth as he is God is of himselfe and so farre forth as he is the Sonne is of the Father for he cannot be God vvhose essence is not of and from it selfe so Basil and Augustine himselfe because he is God by himselfe What say you now Campian God of God is with Caluin God of himselfe and say you so indeed hath not Caluin admonished you of this that the name of God is to be taken for the Father when as Christ is termed the Sonne of God That therefore which the Nicene Fathers deliuer that Christ is God of God that is so to be vnderstood that we should confesse the Sonne to be begotten of the Father and not that we should attribute the name of God only to the Father for we must looke to it that wee doe not so determine the Sonne to bee of the Father as that wee should deny him to be God of himselfe And these things Caluin hath interpreted most diligently and most holily nor hath he set forth any one word at all different from the faith of the Scriptures and of the Catholike Church Remember that sentence of Augustine Christ in respect of himself is termed God Hom. de Temp. 38. but in respect of the Father he is termed the Sonne wherein you may acknowledge the opinion of the auncient Church Now you set vpon Beza for like to the fashion of mad dogges you stand not in one place but flie hither and thither and vpon whomsoeuer you light you bite him shrewdly with your venomous teeth Beza saith as you say he is not begotten of the essence of the Father Why are you angrie with Beza if he say the same things which are wont to be said maintained by your owne selues For you cannot be ignorant what your Lombard teacheth touching the oslence of God which both he and the schoole men that haue followed him do affirme neither to get nor to be begotten For that essence is not begotten by essence but person by person If Beza would imitate these in saying that Christ was begotten not of the essence but of the person of the Father why doe you reproue him and yet we may not imagine that the essence is separated from the person as if the essence of the Sonne were another from the essence of the Father for there is but one simple essence of the Deity but for asmuch as person is distinguished froÌ„ essence albeit not in the thing yet by rolation and sith tho Ancient were wont to speake after this manner that they said Christ was begotten of the person of the Father rather then of his essence it is no maruel that the same forme of speech did like Beza best whose iudgement it was euer that we ought to set downe determinations touching the highest mysteries very warily and with great consideration Now that the essence is not begotten the whole auncient Church held as Basil writeth expresly Câ—ntr Euâ—â—m lib. 1. God is not begotten either of himselfe 〈◊〉 of any other Albeit I do not very wel know whether these be Bezaâ— words which you recite surely I remember not that I haue euer read them in Beza nor can I find them in this place which you quote But those that follow are very malitious Beza said once that there be two personall vnions in Christ as you say the one of the soule with the body the other of the Godhead with the manhood Which speech of his Iames Andreas reproued and indeed not without cause albeit this doth not follow out of that speech that there are two persons in Christ though there bee two personall vnions but that because it was written ambiguously Beza professeth that he would willingly mend it And what can you desire more if he haue erred yet he persisted not in his error but hath amended his fault with what face therefore can you vpbraide him with that which fell from him but once ere he was aware seeing he corrected it after And touching the person of Christ Beza euery where teacheth those things than which nothing can be more true and sincere nor is there any of vs that is wont to affirme or defend that which you obiect concerning those two personall vnions For we confesse but one person constituted of the two natures as also we acknowledge but one personall vnion for although Christ did assume both body and an humane soule yet these parts are not so personally ioyned together in Christ as that they do make any person separate from his Godhead lest we should imagine that Christ consisteth of two persons Now againe you make recourse to Caluin whom I thought you had quite giuen ouer before Caluin denieth that the place of Iohn I and my Father are one doth shew that Christ is God of the same substance with the Father What then Campian was it so hainous an offence to dissent from the auncient Fathers in the exposition of one place Did he euer deny that Christ is of the same substance with the Father you cannot maintaine it For hee alwaies taught it most constantly and confuted the Arrians by other innumerable texts of holy Scripture For what doe you thinke that he cannot be of the same substance with the Father vnlesse this place teach it he that heedfully readeth ouer that dispute of Christ with the Iewes which Iohn in that chapter setteth downe Ioh. 10. shal easily perceiue that rather g DVR What is this that you say Iohn signified the vnion of power will and not of essence are you so rude as that you are ignorant that in God povver and essence are the same WHIT. pag. 546. I am not so rude but that I well vnderstand that the power of God is the essence of God but doth it follow if Christ being endowed and enuironed with the power of God could not be ouercome but that God also should be ouercome that the essentiall power of God and Christ is the same an vnity of will and power then of essence is signified Christ affirmeth that no man
if charity be truly in vs vve haue true iustice and vvell said Augustine Charitie begun is iustice begun charitie encreased is iustice encreased great charity is great iustice perfect charitie is perfect iustice WHIT. pag. 583. All is true you say touching charitie Loue your neighbour as the law requireth and you haue fulfilled the second Fable but this you cannot doe therefore be not brag in the opinion of your charitie which if it were as great as euer any man had yet it should be farre short of that the Law requireth neither can it make you iust As for Augustine wee confesse as much as hee saith but this is not the iustice which freâ—th vs from the wrath of God for that neuer increaseth or groweth but is euer most absolute and perfect that is Christ his obedience imputed vnto vs by faith Of charitie August Epist 29. writeth thus As long as charity may be encreased that verily vvhich is lesse is faulty by that vvhich is faulty there is none iust vpon earth goodwill and fauour whereby the Lord embraceth vs in Christ and forgiueth vs our sinnes and receiueth vs into fauour we place it in God but the effects of this Grace are in vs which effects are these that we do by the holy Ghost perceiue that wee are loued of God that we beleeue in God and repose al hope of saluation in that mercy of God We do not therefore take away all grace from man and place it only in Gods fauour but that first grace wherby he hath reconciled vs to himselfe in Christ and wherin our saluation is contained that alone wee place in God which being felt by vs faith hope and charity and other vertues do follow it which are ours and resident in vs. But we deny that position of yours of infused grace whereby you defend that the grace whereby we are iustified is a certaine habite situate in our minds within and we acknowledge no other iustifying y DVR Why do you not then freely confesse that you doe place all grace only in the fauour of God vvithout vs vvhich fauour doth neither amend the wicked nor purge nor illuminate nor enrich them but only dissemble their old remaining stinking chanell God winking at it WHIT. pag. 584. You cease not to trouble vs with your ignorance for doth it follow that wee remoue all grace from vs because wee place iustifying grace which is the mercy of God in Christ not in vs but in God only for beside this grace there is another grace communicated to all the Saints wherby their soules â—re purged and renewed This consisteth in faith and in the fruits of faith which they coÌ„monly cal Grace infused therfore that chanell of sin doth remaine not within them that haue attained true righteousnes as you slander vs to teach but by the power of the holy Ghost it is daily purged out yet so that as loÌ„g as we liue there remaine some reliques of sin old Adam For if that chanel were so purged that no blots of sinne did remaine in vs neither would S. Paul complaine of the law of his members and the body of death Rom. 7.23.24 Neither should wee neede the renuing of the spirit 2. Cor. 4.16 grace but the great and free mercy of God whereby hee did elect and predestinate vs in Christ before all eternitie vnto life euerlasting and hath called vs in time and iustified vs. z DVR But vvhat place of Scripture doth distinguish iustification from sanctification S. Paul doth not 1. Cor. 6.11 Rom. 6.13 That also is a strange thing that faith should iustifie vs and not sanctifie vs but more strange that Christ should impute his righteousnes to vs that vve may be iust and yet not holy and sanctified WHIT. pag 586. Who can reade the Scripture specially the Epistle to the Romanes and not find these two distinguished for in the first part of it he treateth of iustification in the latter of sanctification vvhat is more manifest then that he vvriteth Rom 8.30 vvhom he hath called those hee hath iustified vvhom hee hath iustisted those hee hath glorified Now this glorification signifieth the glorious renouation which is begun heere and perfected in another life as your Thomas vpon this place hath obserued Againe 1. Cor. 1.30 Is not heere iustification and sanctification distinguished iustification and sanctification are inseparable yet must they be distinguished which because you do not you place iustification in sanctification Your place out of the Epistle to the Corinthes doth plainly distinguish them Your second place sheweth that a kind of iustificatioÌ„ is in sanctification but it is not that perpect iustice by which we are iustified before God but only an imperfect one As for your wondeâ—s and strange things they come from your ignorance for we haue neuer sepaâ—ated these two but affirme that he who is by faith partaker of Christ his righteouâ—nes must needs haue the old man crucified and the body of sinne destroyed in him that he may no longer serue sinne For grace infused wherein regeneration and sanctification consisteth and which the Scriptures call the new man is not strong enough to iustifie vs a DVR Grace infused and our inherent righteousnes though it be not perfect yet it is true iustice and doth iustifie vs. WHIT. pag. 58â— By this you ouerthrow your doctrine of iustification for that iustice which doth reconcile vs to God ought to be most perfect that such as neither the law nor God himselfe can require a more perfect That which is not perfect is in it kind corrupt If then â—n imperfect iustice can please God then a corrupt thing will please him and so should he not be perfectly iust but being most iust that only pleaseth him which is according to the prescription of the law most perfect Luk. 10.27.28 Leuit. 18.5 because it neuer satisfieth the law of God in this life and ought euery day to be restored and aspire to greater perfection For so Paul saith 2. Cor. 4.16 Although our outward man perish yet our inward man is renewed daily which place Augustine hath very often vsed in this cause You see therfore both what grace we place in God and what we confesse to be infused into our hearts For as for that you say wee barke out that grace is not strong enough for the resisting of sinne therein you goe about thorough our sides to wound Paul himself vppon whoÌ„ this your reproch reboundeth Rom. 7.18.19.21.23 For though he were indued with infused grace as much as any other yet he denieth that he could attaine to perfect that which is good b DVR S. Paul saith only that hee vvas assayed and tempted by those motions but seeing it is not sinne vvhere the consent of the vvill is not bee saith it vvas not hee that did it but the flesh for hee doubted not but grace vvas sufficient for him vvhereby be might ouercome all these seeing he had the
void of good workes but it is of that nature that it worketh by loue It is therefore faith alone which iustifieth that is which embraceth Christs obedience wherin our righteousnes consisteth but yet this faith which iustifieth is neuer alone for it is euer accompanied with hope and charity and doth not suffer it selfe to be disioyned from it For as the heate alone of the fire doth set the wood on fire and yet this heate is not alone but continually ioyned with the light so faith alone of it self doth iustifie albeit it can neuer be quite alone Now seeing that all our righteousnes and happines do consist in the pardon of sinnes we also teach that this ought to be most certainly perswaded to vs and knowne of vs so as our soules may rest therin as in a most safe and quiet hauen For being iustified by faith wee haue peace toward God through our Lord Iesus Christ. Now what could this peace be it we were alwaies distracted with a doubtful hope thoughts and tossed as it were with waues hither and thither about our saluation Albeit therefore our consciences are set vpon oftentimes by many terrors so as they cannot be so secure in this life as if wee did alreadie enioy the endlesse ioy of heauen yet we say that this faith ought to depend most certainly and strongly vpon the promises of God so as wee may expell all doubting about the grace of God our adoption and saluation For true faith cannot agree with vnbeliefe It is the propertie of this to distrust Gods promises but the property of that is to ouercome and driue away all doubting as much as may be But if faith be full of doubting wherein doth it go beyond vnbeliefe let vs beleeue the Apostle who both knew very well and hath described exactly the nature of true faith He propoundeth Abraham vnto vn in whom wee may behold a most notable image of true faith What did he did he stagger was hee in suspense with himselfe did he doubt nay in him al things were contrary Rom. 4 1◠he against hope did beleeue vnder hope he was not weake in the faith hee did not discourse against the promise of God through vnbeliefe he was strengthned in the faith hee was fully perswaded that God which had promised could performe it And this faith was imputed to him for righteousnes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This was Abrahams faith shal ours bee vnlike it but he is our Father wee his children and children should bee like their father The conclusion is made now against you Campian that by faith wee are i DVR You can neuer shew out of Gods word that forgiuenes of all sinnes is giuen to them vvho apprehend the righteousnes of Christ by saith WHIT. pag. 618. This that you deny to be shewed in the Scriptures is most plainly taught in them as Ioh. 3.16 Act. 10.43 Act. 13.39 DVR But vve know not vvhether vve be endued vvith true faith WHIT. pag. 620. Indeed it cannot be denied that many are deceiued with a fained faith but they who are indued vvith true faith they do know that they haue true faith so did Paul 2. Tim. 1.12 know for himself in 2. Cor. 13.5 he biddeth other learne to know it So a Christiā may know that he hath true faith that by the spirit that he hath giuen vs as 1. Ioh. 3.24 made certaine of our saluation and that your variable and suspicious faith is liker to infidelity than to faith Basil in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 k DVR That which you bring out of Basil and the Tridentime Catechisme doth ouerthrow your selfe what certaintie can a man haue of his iustification vvhen as S. Paul saith 1. Cor. 4.4 I knovv nothing by my selfe yet am I not thereby iustified And the like hath Iob. cap. 9.15.20 WHIT pag. 622. If they attribute to faith a most certaine persvvasion without doubting as they do do they not cōfirme our doctrine that a man may be certaine of his saluation For those temptations which come frō the flesh though they may shake it yet they cannot ouerthrow it As for S. Paul doth hee denie himself to be iustified doth he doubt of his saluatiō Reade the end of the eight to the Romans and you shall find him so certaine of his iustification and saluation as that you Papists are glad to ansvvere that he had it by an extraordinary reuelation of the spirit And do you novv make him doubting of his saluation But you vnderstand not Saint Paul in the place you alleadge for he doth not not deny that he is iustified but he saith that thereby he is not iustified because he knovveth nothing by himselfe Iob also though he dare not trust to his owne workes and innocency yet he shevveth himselfe to be certaine of his ovvne saluation Iob 19.26 Basil saith excellently What is the propertie of faith a full or certaine perswasion void of all doubting But what meane I to conuince you by testimonies of the auncient whom the very Catechisme of Trent doth confute Catechis Trid. in 1. art Symb. The word beliefe saith it as the holy Scriptures teach hath the force of most certaine consent Wherefore he beleeueth to whom any thing is certaine and assured without doubting Now we beleeue euerlasting life therefore it ought to be most certaine assured to vs without any doubting I require now nothing more the Catechisme of the Councell of Trent ratified by the authoritie of the Pope and Councell teacheth me that a man ought to be certaine of his saluation But are you not yet quiet but stil question farther for say you how can a man be sure l DVR VVho could euer be certaine of his ovvne perseuerance to the end vvithout the peculiar reuelatiō of God WHIT. pag. 626. In this speech you cut in sunder the sinevves of Gods euerlasting decree For seeing Gods predestination is certaine and vnchangeable it doth cause our calling iustifying and glorifying to be as certaine as it selfe For is it in your povver to dissolue and breake in sunder that golden chaine of the Apostle Rom. 8.30 and to vvhom can his owne perseuerance be doubtfull seeing God testifieth his perpetual good wil towards vs as these scriptures fully teach Ier. 32 40. Ioh. 13. 1. Luc 22.32 Iob. 17.20.21 Matth. 21.22 Rom. 8.9 Ioh. 14.16 Ioh. 10.28 Phil. 2.6 Rom. 11.29 1. Ioh. 3.9 Matth. 24.24 of his future perseuerance That may be certaine Campian by faith which if it be true cannot vtterly decay Heb. 11.1 The Apostle termeth faith the m DVR No man euer doubted but that all those things which vve beleeue are most certaine But you ought to shevv that euery ode ought to beleeue that he shall perseuere in that faith to his end Saint Paul she vveth that certaine had made shipvvracke of faith 1. Tim. 1.19 WHIT. pag. 627. The question is not vvhether things beleeued be certaine or no for
pluck in peeces the authority of the Magistrates which he did alwaies defend most diligently against the Anabaptists a DVR It they be bound to obey hovv are their consciences free from the religion of them Jf vvas a humane lavv Act. 15.20 touching strangled and blood And Rom. 13.2.5 and 1. Pet. 2.13.13 WHIT. pag. 730. To the first I answere that some things may be done vvhereunto vve are not bound in conscience vve must â—bey humane and politike lavves because they are necessary for peace and publike tranquillitie Yet vve must distinguish humane lavves from Diuine For the Lawes of God must simplie bee obeyed without any difference of time place and circumstance but the lawes of men as he circumstances require For example he that is a Romane and liueth at Rome must obey the Romane lavves If hee goe into Persia he is not bound to keepe there the Romane lavvea vpon any necessitie Then they bind not the conscience for then should they in all places bind alike 2. That Law of the Apostles did not simplie binde the conscience but in respect of the weake brother lest he should be offended vvhom the lavv of God bindeth not to offend Againe this was the law not of meÌ„ but of the spirit of God 3. For the places of S. Paul and S. Peter I answere the Apostles doth not insnare the conscience vvith euery particular precept of the Magistrate but they speake of his authoritie which is sacred and holy and cannot with any good conscience bee contemned It is the commandement of God that we obey Magistrates and this doth bind the conscience in generall therefore he is to be obeyed for conscience sake but his particular lawes do not bind the conscience Againe when we obserue their particular lawes wee doe not so stand vpon the precepts as if doing of them would quiet the conscience and satisfie it but wee looke to the end that is the will of God vvhich commandeth obedience to honest and iust lavves Christians are free not that they may obey no lawes and liue only to themselues but that they may vnderstand that their consciences and minds are freed from making the lawes of men to be religion The Pope of Rome hath bound the consciences of Christian men with his Decrees and Canons and thereby hath laid such a snare vpon their minds as that they might thinke they are no lesse bound by the Popes Canons then by Christs precepts Therfore Luther freeth Christian liberty from those euill opinions wherein it had bene infolded and bringeth it into that state in which Christ would haue it to be that we should acknowledge him only to be the Lord of our conscience and that we should obey the lawes of men with a free conscience We are now at length come to the bottome of this puddle which although you haue stirred with all your diligence yet you haue not found so much as one paradoxe or a peece of a paradoxe of ours But now if I would but a little make search into the most filthy puddles of your writers as to recken vp what they haue affirmed of God of the Prouidence of God of Predestination of the Person and Offices of Christ of Originall sin of the Law of Righteousnes of the Sacraments of Purgatory of the Pope of Rome and of the rest of the greatest controuersies in Religion how many Carts should I fill with paradoxes horrible to be spoken or thought But it is better not at this time to stirre this common Sewre and otherwhere I hope occasion will be giuen to speake hereof Now in that you would ioine the Lutherans and Zwinglians together therein surely you haue not offended vs for we both reuerence Luther as a father and we embrace them as very deere brethren in Christ And verily we hope it will come to passe that this controuersie which is betweene vs being compounded we shall all with ioint minds and studies set vpon the common enemie As for that you say touching your selfe I am easily perswaded to thinke it to be true whether it be that you speake it hartily or sainedly For what I beseech you haue you alledged for which wee should not rather thinke you to be some Rhetoricall Actor vpon a Stage then a learned and experienced Diuine Campian if you be wise be quiet for beleeue me you cannot indure the force and violence of this combate Let those choise and old souldiers put themselues into the camp who are if not more bold to prouoke yet more wary to auoid blowes and much more skilfull in all discipline of warre To enter combate with these both the Vniuersities haue many worthie men and I trust there will neuer want excellent Diuines to wage perpetuall warre with the broken bands of Antichrist EDMVND CAMPIAN The ninth Reason which is the Aduersaries Sophismes IT is an auncient Prouerb that a pore-blinde man may be a King amongst the blinde Amongst the ignorant sort of people many times a coloured argument taketh place the which the Philosophers schoole doth hisse at The * This is false you can produce none of our sophismes and those you speake of are yours not ours Aduersarie herein much offendeth but namely in foure kinds of fallaces he is well practised which I had rather disclose in the Vniuersitie schooles then in the common streets whither only rude people do resort The first fault is called Schiamachia Schiamachia which is a forcible striking of the ayer and beating of shadowes on this sort against those that are single and haue * Those oathes and vovves are taken and made against the scriptures sworne and solemnely vowed to liue in Chastity because Marriage is good but Virginitie is better They bring scriptures that speake very * Marriage is honorable in all conditions of men therefore in Ministers honorably of Matrimony 1. Cor. 7. Whom do they pierce with their darts Against the * All he can do are his duties therefore there can be no merits merits of a Christian man dipped in Christes bloud without the which there is no merit at all They recite testimonies which commaund vs to put our affiance neither in nature nor in the lawe but in the bloud of Christ whom do they confute Against those that honor Saints as the most acceptable seruants of Christ there are vouched whole pages of scripture which prohibit the * They vvho vvorship many Saints vvorship many Gods Papists vvorship many Saints ergo worshipping of many gods Such Arguments as these which I see swarme amongst the Aduersaries cannot hurt vs well may they be loathsome vnto you The second fault is Logomachia Logomachia which is a leaning of the matter it selfe and contentiously to striue about a bare word Find if thou canst say they this word Missa 1. Masse or Purgatorium 1. Purgatorie in the scripture What if I cannot Is there not a * A most foolish and vniust comparison Trinity a consubstantiality or
the person of God to be proued out of the Bible because these words Trinitas 1. a trinity Homoousios 1. of the same substāce Persona 1. a person be not there found Of great alliance to this fault is Literarum aucupium when neglecting the common vsage and true meaning of the speakers which is the very life of the word they cauill against the bare letters For thus they argue Presbyter 1. a Priest is nothing else in Greeke but Senior 1. an Elder Sacramentum 1. a Sacrament signifieth all kind of mysterie But S. Thomas herein as in all other matters saith most wisely that in words we must marke not so much from whence as to what purpose they are spoken The third fault is Homonymia Homonymia which they most commōly vse as whē they say to what purpose was the order of * Heere is no Homonymy for there are now no Priests in a Christian Church Priesthood instituted seeing that S. Iohn hath called vs all Priests Esay 48. So hath he also added this We are all Kings and shall raigne vpon the earth Wherefore then were Kings ordained Againe they say the Prophet biddeth vs obserue a spirituall feast that is that we should refraine from our old sinnes Farewell all * Campian placeth fasting in the choise of meates and obseruation of daies vvhich in meere Iudaisme change of meates and prescript times of fasting Is the matter so indeed Then Moyses Dauid Helias S. Iohn Baptist and the Apostles were starke fooles who ended their fasting from vsuall food after two dayes three dayes and certaine weekes whereas their fast from sinne should haue endured so long as they liued What this fallacy is you haue now seene I hast forward The fourth fault added to this Circulatio is Circulatio a going about the bush in this manner Tell me I say to one of them the true marks of the Church He answereth the word of God and the purest ministring of the Sacraments Are these marks to be found amongst you say I who doubteth of that saith he I vtterly deny it Then quoth he peruse the word of God I * If you had consulted with the vvord of God you should easily haue perceiued that it vvas so but you consult vvith the Church of Rome and not with the word haue already perused it and I thinke worse of your side then I did before Tush saith he for all that the matter is most plaine proue me that say I because saith he we swarue not a finger breadth from the word of God Where is thy sharp wit thou braggest of Wilt thou still for thy proofe inferre that which is in controuersie How often haue I blamed thee for this Wilt thou not awake out of thy dreames Must thou haue a torch lighted that thou maist see to speake I tell thee once againe that thou doest malitiously miscōstrue the word of God I haue for my witnesses fifteene hundred yeares Stand to the iudgement neither thine nor mine but of these 1500. yeares I will stand saith he to the iudgemēt of the word of God Job 3. The spirit doth breath where he listeth Behold what roundabouts he fetcheth what round rings he treadeth I know not to whom this iester and coyner of so many waste words and foolish fallaces may be a terror troublesome peraduenture he will be may it please your wisedomes to tollerate his troublesomnesse as for the feare the cause it selfe hath alreadie quite taken away WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the ninth Reason which is the Aduersaries Sophismes IT is a goodly thing that Sophisters complaine of fallacies and that you who your selues are altogether compact of fraud lies and impostures do vpbraid vs with Sophistrie All your Diuinitie which ought to be honest and sincere without deceipt and fraud hath of late degenerated into a subtle fleight of disputing like Schoole-boyes and Sophisters for after that you had abandoned true Diuinitie out of the Churches and as it were exiled the light from mens eyes then you began at last to put forth curious questions in the Schooles and so as pore blind men to be admired of those who saw nothing Hence arose that innumerable army of Sophisters who confounded themselues with their refined idle disputes as with mutuall wounds in so much as who so could best skill of counterfet and captious trifling conclusions he should be reputed as some King or petie God ouer those blind and squint-eyed smatterers in Diuinitie And this hope of domineering amongst so many blind ones hath egged on you Iesuites thus diligently to dwell vpon this craft and to put downe all the ancient Sophisters for deceipt and fraude your selues being yet but vpstarts For if there were euer any kingdome of pore-blind men ouer the starck blind questionlesse it is now wholly descended vnto you to whom the ancienter orders of Monks and Friers do willingly yeeld the garland because they thinke you see something Play your prizes now you noble Sophisters and execute with all diligence the Sophisticall dominion which you haue gotten lest some hereafter happily sleely dispossesse you of this honor for shortly some one or other new family and sect of Sophisters will gather strength which if you looke not well about you will at last shoulder and shuffle you violently out of place and enter vpon this soueraigntie ouer the schoole of Sophistrie which now for some yeares you haue possessed For out of doubt kingdomes themselues entitled vpon pety sleights and deceiptfull conueiances of words cannot long continue Seeing therefore this your whole shew of new learning consists in furbushing vp of vntruths and refining the former Sophistrie verily I make no question but as it is of yesterdayes building so it will shortly fall to ruine But for as much as you mention certain Sophismes as ours and perswade your fauorites that we vse very much sophistrie before I answere to these your falshoods which you lay to our charge I will giue the reader a tast of your owne most notorious false-grounded a DVR Our Auncestors otherwise most wise men hauing not alvvaies to deale with wilfull spirits did not strictly stand vpon exact forme of teaching WHIT. pag. 734. The cause is the more desperate whē such wise mē could find no better arguments to maintaine it but such as euen your self confesse to be but weake and both their hearers were then too credulous to beleeue and you are now ridiculous to defend such loose arguments disputations and deceiptfull Elenches that so Pvralogismis Elenchis whether you or we be more truly to be tearmed Sophisters the Schoole and Vniuersitie it selfe may determine betwixt vs where you desire rather these things should be discussed then amongst the vulgar I for my part do appeale vnto this schoole of Philosophers and Vniuersitie of Diuines and I earnestly beseech all men who haue vnderstanding in the principles either of Diuinitie or Logick and as many as euer tasted of
also happily at thy commaund though not to be drawne with thy hand speaking to the Pope WHIT. pag. 747. Duraeus is ashamed of this sophisme buâ— yet he fathereth it vpon Bernard which also Iohannes a Capistrano of the Pope and Councels p 77. and others of them haue handled and Pope Boniniface girt himselfe with a sword in signe hereof but this place speaketh nothing at all for any such power Pope must beare both swords The seruant is not aboue his master therefore i DVR What Catholike euer taught or wrote thus howbeit the Fathers of the Sinuessan Councell said The chiefe seate is iudged of no man WHIT. pag. 749. Thus you will make the Pope no Catholike who saith Dist 40. si Pâ—pa The Pope may bee reproued of no mortall man though he leade with him innumerable people vnto hell And who knoweth not these two pillers of Popery the Church of Rome cannot erre whatsoeuer it teacheth and the Pope may not be accused whatsoeuer â—e doth The Bishops of the Sinuessan Synode spake to Marcellinus the Pope who had denied Christ and committed Idolatrie and might bee accused by the Popes owne lawes so that in citing that authoritie you contradict both your selfe and your lawes it is lawfull for no man to accuse or reproue the Pope Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile him k DVR Christ made Peter his Vicar on earth and by his prayer obtained that his Vicars faith might not faile by force vvherof the Pope cannot erre as Augustine and Cyprian also perceiued WHIT pag. 750. It is not true that Christ made Peter his Vicar nor doth it follow Peters faith failed not therefore no Popes faith hath failed who are his successors for Popes haue done and may fall into heresies as you will confesse and may erre in faith saith Pope Boniface Dâ—st 40. Papa which he could not do it this argument of yours vvere true Further Christ prayed for all his Apostles and the whole Church shal we say Christs prayer was lesse effectuall for the rest then for Peter If it be not then none of their successors could erre no more then Peters which I suppose you will not affirme And Augustine and Cyprian neuer reasoned as you do you abuse their names therefore the Pope cannot erre The vulgar people commeth seldome and negligently to the Lords Supper l DVR If you beleeued the Prophet Malachie or the Masse you vvould confesse this argument to be good WHIT pag. 753. You can neuer proue your Masse by the Prophet Malachie who speaketh of the prayers of the godly as Tertullian Eusebius and Jerome expound him and if the Masse were a sacrifice indeed as you call it the peoples negligence is no sufficient cause to make it priuate and yet to profit the people yea though they be absent you may aswel abuse the Word it selfe so and say it is inough when it is in publike it the Priest handle it and heare it and beleeue it alone yet the people being absent and not dreaming of any such thing may be saued by it therefore the Priest may celebrate priuate Masse Christ admitted onlie his Apostles to Suppe therefore Priests alone must m DVR The people also receiue the vvhole Sacrament vnder one kind WHIT pag. 754. It is childish dotage to say so as though one part of a thing were the vvhole or as if Christ appointing both bread and wine ordained more then a whole Sacrament that Pope was wiser vvhich said of certaine heretikes that refrained from the Cup as you doâ— De concil dist 2. cap. Comperimus Let them either receiue the vvhole Sacrament or refuse all DVR Christs vvords Drinke yee all of this proue nâ—t that all Christians must doe so WHIT. pag. 755. They doe proue it as those vvords take eate doe proue that all must eate and you may as vvell keepe both the elements from the people as one contrarie to S. Paul 1. Cor. 11.23 DVR The Passeouer might be eaten vvithout vvine WHIT. pag. 756. It might because God had not commaunded vvine but Christ himselfe commaundeth it in his Supper 1. Cor. 11.45 DVR The common people are aâ—t bound to drinke of the Cap for S. Paul saith As oft as ye drinke it to signifie they were not commanded so to doe WHIT. So he saith of the bread also As of as yee eate 1. Cor. 11.26 so that by your argument neither is the bread commanded them receiue the Sacrament the people ought to bee contented only with one part The title which Pilate fastned vpon the Crosse was written in Hebrew Greeke Latine therfore n DVR No Catholike doth so reason we say that title had in it a mysterie and Augustine proueth by it that the vvord coessentâ—all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be vsed in the Creede WHIT. pag. 757. Papists often reason thus as all men knovve which read their writings though you bee ashamed of it Tell vs what mysterie you meane if it bee worth the labour as for Augustine hee speakes no word that makes here for your cause yet you blush not to quote him prayers must bee read in the Churches in no language but either Hebrew or Greeke or Latine Harding That which is holy must not be giuen to dogges o DVR VVe say not that all but that some of the people may not haue the Scriptures committed to them WHIT. pag. 758. Who doubteth but that vvisedome is to be vsed in teaching the people and that they vvhich shevv themselues dogges and hogges must be barred from the Scriptures but this is nothing to the present question vvhether this reason be good vvhich Papists sometimes vse and vvhich here you should haue spoken to and not thus vvander therfore the vulgar people must be forbidden to reade the Scriptures This is my bodie therefore the p DVR Christ said it vvay his bodie WHIT. pag. 759. Christ by an vsuall phrase of Scripture called the thing signifying by the name of the thing signified because of the sacramentall ioint receiuing of both to vvit of the bread vvith the mouth and of his bodie by faith Againe if that vvhich vvas in Christs hands vvere his reall body vvhen he said so then vvas transubstantiation before vvhich you deny and then he had tvvo bodies but if it vvere bread then is there a metonymie in his vvords as vvee truly say bread is turned into Christs bodie Fall downe before his footestoole q DVR Ambrose and Augustine reasoned so from this Scripture WHIT p. 761. That is false they teach onely that vve must vvorship Christ in the mysteries and Sacrament not the myâ—teries and Sacrament themselues therefore the Sacrament must be worshipped God is no respecter of persons Pighius r DVR That vvas Pighius his error but the iudgement of Catholike Vniuersities is that foreseeing of merits is no cause of Predestination WHIT. pag. 762. Thus you fall from your champion Pighius in vvords
manifest by this fire but your Purgatory fire is obscure and neuer sheweth such light 4. The word fire is vsed by S. Paul Metaphorically as also are gold siluer hay wood c. but you say your Purgatory fire is true fire The fire which S. Paul heerâ— meaneth is the holy Ghost who proueth all doctrines and seuereth the false from the true Ambrose on Psal 118. saith This fire is the vvord of Christ Angustine indeed spake doubtfully of Purgatory saying Enchiridion cap. 69. it may be that there is some such thing but whether yea or no it is a question and in his booke of the Citie of God he saith perhaps it is true many others of the Fathers thought this purging should bee at Christs comming to iudgement vvhich much differeth from your Purgatorie Chrysostome in his Preface on Esay saith God at one instant abolisheth sin freeth from punishment and giueth righteousnes Tertullian in his booke of Baptisme saith Guilt and punishment are taken away togither Hierome saith vpon the 31. Psalme the sin which is couered is not seene that vvhich is not seene is not imputed that which is not imputed shall not be punished so that nothing is left for your Purgatorie by these mens iudgements therefore men passe thorow the fire of Purgatorie to life eternall To what purpose should I rehearse innumerable others your disputations like these Now Campian let vs heare a few of your owne Augustine wrote three bookes of free will therefore Augustine approued that man hath free will Christ was ignorant of some thing therefore Christ was not without sinne The Fathers diligently searched the Scriptures therefore it is neuer lawfull to dissent from the Fathers These your argumentations I haue thus briefely collected which what goodly ones they be our Vniuersitie students easilie perceiue Doe you acknowledge them to be your owne Campian so sophisticall so inconsequent so full of deceite and falsehoods You were in a great straite if you could not denie it but if you confesse it you are quite ouerthrowne for all these are very vnlearnedly concluded either by mistaking words of double signification or by wresting phrases figuratiuely spoken or without any consequent or from ignorance of the Elenche or to conclude altogethe trifling It sufficeth that I haue touched these but lightly now I come to those which you obiect against vs. There be foure chiefe heads of deceitfull disputing Sciamachia wherein you say our sophistrie chiefely consisteth to wit Sciamachia a fighting with a shadow Logomachia a contention about words Homonymia a mistaking of the sense of words and Circulatio a going about the bush Let vs see how grossely wee vse to erre in them Sciamachia or a fighting with ones shadow you first define then you produce examples of our supposed practise I dislike not the definition and hasten to those examples Against those that haue vowed single life say you they alleage Scriptures which speake honourably of mariage whom smite they with such weapons Whom but your selfe Campian and those so worthy Prelates on your side which first imposed the vowe of perpetuall virginitie vpon Ministers of the Gospell For if the Scriptures doe indeed speake honourably of wedlocke then Pope Syricius and Innocent the second of that name and such others your stoute maintainers of single life can by no meanes be defended who as is well knowne haue spoken many things basely a DVR This is your impudencie for vve say matrimony is so holie that it is euen a Sacrament yet not equall vvith Virginitie WHIT. pag. 778. All men know what Syricius and Jnnocentius wrote of Matrimony By the Scriptures it appeareth to be equally holy with virginity if not why bring you no testimony to the contrarie And it is very absurd that you account virginity more holy and yet wil needs haue matrimony to be a Sacrament virginity should rather be a Sacrament seeing by your opinion it is the more holy despitefully and wickedly of matrimonie Consider well those speeches which euen now I produced taken out of your law deny if you can for shame that they be dishonest in themselues and egregiouslie iniurious to wedlocke Certainely if these Scriptures doe indeed wound the auncient heretikes Saturninus Seuerus b DVR VVhat Catholike euer esteemed marriage to be no better than pollution as those heretikes did WHIT. pag. 779. Pope Innocent in effect in that he disswaded Deacons from it because they must be holy and haue nothing to do with pollutioÌ„s and bed-pleasures than which Tatianus himselfe could say nothing against mariage more impious Tatianus the Encratites and the Archontici needs must they also most sharpely touch you to the quicke which commonly are woont to iudge and speake no whit more honourably of wedlocke than they haue done For shew me Campian if you can wherein those reprochfull speeches may any whit more touch the marriage of Ministers than of other men Thus then both you your selues haue apparantly fled to the heretikes holdes and also these Scriptures which doe speake so honourably of wedlocke doe disproue your heresie and giue you a very deadly wound For thus I presse our argument more effectually than you If wedlocke be honourable in euery degree of men and the bed vndefiled then in no degree ought they to be esteemed dishonest or impure but the antecedent is c DVR By this argument you may as well coÌ„demne Saint Paul for marriage is honorable eueÌ„ in those widowes who yet haue damnation saith he because they will marry WHIT. pag. 779. S. Paul disalloweth such widowes not because they vvould marry but because they vvould reiect their faith Christian professioÌ„ by waxing wanton marrying with Infidels true therefore the consequent is necessarily true also Hebr. 13.4 What can you here disproue or why hath it not the force of a necessarie conclusion out of which you shall neuer be able to winde your selfe As for your sleight euasion because of a former vowe I haue already confuted it Let vs now proceede vnto your other examples Against the merits of a Christian man dipped in Christs blood say you they recite testimonies which commaunde vs to put our affiance neither in nature nor in the Law but in the blood of Christ whom doe they confute with these testimonies Those arguments which are vrged by our side against mens merits doe most clearely confute you and strike you dead Mans nature is corrupt Gen. 6.5 â—â— Rom. 4.15 and the Law sheweth the disease but doth not cure it therefore all our hope of saluation consisteth in Christs blood But you haue deuised vs a kinde of merit forsooth dipped in the blood of Christ which may auaile much to deserue saluation For so you maintaine that saluation doth not wholy consist in the blood of Christ but that it much what dependeth vpon your owne merites yet so as that they be dipped with Christs blood lest you might bee thought downe right Pelagians To speake more plainely
meates and prescribed obseruation of daies Apoc. 5. because the Prophet highly commendeth a spirituall fast Esay 48. I wil speake a few words both of the one and other that I may cleerly quit vs of this crime of Homonymie Saint Iohn alone hath not named all p DVR By this argument you may as well proue the Iewes had no Priests properly so called WHIT. pag. 809. Not so for the Lord ordained such a Priesthood amongst them which he hath not amongst Christians Christians Priests 1. Pet. 2.5.9 but S. Peter also hath tearmed them a holy and a royall Priesthood and this name is in no place of the new Testament q DVR So the name Sacrament is neuer giuen to Baptisme nor to the Eucharist in the New testament WHIT. pag. 810. But the substance of it agreeth to them both and is there whereas the name Sacerdos a Priest is not in the nevv Testament nor doth the thing it selfe properly belong to any but Christ since his death DVR Yea Christ instituted a sacrifice in his Supper and where a sacrifice is there is a Priest also WHIT. pag. 810. Christ ordeined theÌ„ no sacrifice but only a Sacrament of a sacrifice DVR Esay calleth the Mâ—nisters of the Gospell Priests cap. 6â— 6 66.21 WHIT. Esay in the first place speaketh of all Christians and in the second of Ministers in the phrase of that time vvhence also you may as well say Deacons are Leuites vvhich you vvill not say they are propeâ—ly DVR Ministers are needlesse except they be Priects and as mediators betwixt God and men vnto saluation and your Ministers are but Lay-men WHIT. pag. 810. â—15 They must preach the Word and administer the Sacraments but not offer sacrifice of mediation betwixt God and men as you say you do in the Masse to do these we haue a calling ordeined of Christ for your sacrifice you haue none DVR The Apostles name them not Priests because they are not of the order of Aaron but the Fathers call them Priests who knevv the Apostles mâ—aâ—ing and you call them Priests in English WHIT pag. 812. Christ only is a Priest after the order of Melchisedecke Heb. 7.3 so then there be no Priests at all you confesse the Fathers call them so by custome but not properly the Apostles of purpose abstaining froÌ„ the name of Priests might teach vs hereafter better vvisdome to do so also properly applied to the Ministers of the Gospell For Christ being made an high Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedech hath no copartners of this r DVR True for it is Christ that presenteth himselfe in the sacrifiâ—e vve onely are as ministers WHIT. p. 814. If you be Ministers only then are you not properly Priests why then will you be so called DVR Yet vve as truely sacrifice as baptise WHIT. Thus you will be Ministers only and no Priests nor be copaâ—tners in Christs sacrifice yet you will bâ— tearmed Priests and truly sacrifice these be contraries and cannot stand together yea meere madnes and dotages Priesthood therefore Christ hath left vnto his Churches a Ministerie and not a new Priesthood Neither doth there remaine to vs Å¿ DVR Thus you strippe the Gospell of all sacrifice and â—eligion WHIT. pag. 816. 817. All your religion by this your doctrine is in your Masse which we willingly haue not but notwithstanding we haue the sacrifice of Christ which is perpetuall and inchangeable Heb. 7 2â— 28 and 10.14 your inuisible sacrifice the Scripture knoweth not any such sacrifice for the administration whereof some speciall Priests must needs be authorised For that sacrifice of praise and doing good Hebr. 13.15.16 which the Apostle mentioneth and which now remaineth onely that I say appertaineth indifferently to all Christians Notwithstanding we permit none to execute the administration of this ministery which Christ would haue to be perpetuall in his Church but them whom it concerneth and who are by due order t DVR VVho called Luther Caluin Beza c. your Ministers WHIT. pag. 820. Luther Zuinglius Bucer c. were Priests of your owne and so had a calling except your order of Priesthood be no calling and might call others by your law Againe God is not tied so to order but that he may for the good of the Church call Ministers extraordinarily And the Churches haue lavvfull povver to chuse Ministers so that we need not to call any from you that seruice as saith Cyprian Epist. 68. Thus were Caluiâ— and Beza chosen called thereunto Albeit then Christ haue made vs all both Kings that we might be able to subdue our sinnes and Priests that we might offer him spirituall sacrifices notwithstanding as it is not lawfull for euery man to dreame of a kingdome so it is a thing detestable for any man to enter vpon the holy Ministery who hath not that function committed vnto him by diuine authoritie Wherefore I see not at all why you should charge vs with any such Homonymy or falshood from ambiguous signification in this word As for your maner of fasting that indeed is wholly in shew and hath nothing in it of a Christian fast but the very name For to make choyce of meates as a thing more religious and to prescribe certaine and perpetuall set dayes wherein we must necessarily fast the u DVR This sauoureth of Luthers spirit but Pope Leo saith that the holy Ghost taught the Apostles the disciplâ—ne of fasting for one of the chiefe Sacraments of heauenly doctrine WHIT. pag. 8â—1 c. Wee allow Christian fasting but vvhat spirit taught Leo to say so of your solemne superstitious fasts the Scriptures speake no such thing which wee preferie before all mens iudgements one is witlesse the other superstitious For what man which is not depriued of iudgement and all sense will thinke that he fasteth who so that he abstaine x DVR No Catholike euer said that the force of fasting consisteth in only abstinence from flesh WHIT. pag. 822. All men know that you call your abstinence from flesh in Lent in the Ember daies the Saint Eues c. fasting and that he who then eateth â—â—sh and other meate in abundance in not said amongst you to violate his fast but if one doe but tast flesh you esteeme him a grieeuous malefactor DVR But Elisha Daniel Iohn Baptist made religious choise of meates vvhich you thus call madnes yea Daniel absteined from flesh and vvine to apprease Gods anger vvhose example teacheth vs also to absteine from daintier meates in time of fasting as the Church hath long accustomed WHIT. pag. 823. These holy men did not fast as you doe and teach for Elisha fed the Prophets with wild and bitter herbes not for religion sake but in time of fâ—â—mine for want of other victuall 2. King 4.39 and Daniel absteined not from some only but from all desireable meates Dan. 10.3 not to appease Gods anger as you say
but that he might vvith more liuely sense of his brethrens miserie humble himselfe to God as for John Baptists coÌ„tinuall diet it vvas locusts and vvild hony nothing like your fasting It is meere dorage and superstation to call abstinence only from some delicate meates fasting though other as delicate be eaten as you doe no Prophets nor auncient Christians in the Church euer fasted thus froÌ„ flesh may at his pleasure glut himselfe with all maner of dainties Or who can suppose that the Fridayes fast is holier then the Wednesdayes fast but he must too much sauour of Iudaisme If S. Paul reproued the Galathians Gal. 4.10 because they did obserue dayes and y DVR This is an auncient cauill of heretiks long since ansevered by Ierome and Augustine that vve obserue not the same dayes that Ievves and Gentiles did WHIT. pag. 824. The Church in thâ—ir time did not bind mens consciences to the obseruation of daies as you doe and as did the Galathians iudging it necessarie for Christians to fast at your set times which if it had done yet the authoritie of men must not preuaile more than Scripâ—ures moneths and times is it likely he would endure our Papists which erre more grossely and shamefully If he forewarned the Colossians that they would not be intangled with their superstition Colos 2.21 which thought that some certaine meates were not to be z DVR Saint Paul reprooueth there the practise of Ievvish ceremonies WHIT. pag. 8â—6 True and all other like them which are mans ordinances and doctrines as he saith plamely verse 22. of which sort yours are else shew vs Scripture for them touched not to be tasted not to be handled would he allow the papisticall choice of meates If he determined long since 1. Tim. 4.2.3 that it was diuelish and a DVR You sight against vs vvith the Manichees vveapoâ—s vvhom Augustine aâ—svvered against Faust lib. 30. cap. 5. That true Christians abstaine from certaine meates and fruites more or lesse as they please and are able to tame the bodie and humble the soule against sinne not as though thâ—se creatures vvere vncâ—â—â—e WHIT. pag. 817. Thus you make Saint Paul a Manichee but indeed he there condemneth them and all that forbid to cate meates vnder paine of damnation which you doe and that place of Augustine plainely sheweth how your fasts differ from the Christian fasts in his time first they were to tame and humble men yours doe not so secondly they thought no meates vncleane you say men are polluted by eating some forbidden thirdly they abstained from sith and fruites as from flesh in their fasts you doe not so fourthly they fasted as they thought good and could but you make generall lawes of fastings to binde men thereto hypocriticall to absteine from certaine meates if he were now liuing would he change his doctrine and command this abstinence to a Christian We truely for our parts do alwayes and very highly commend a true fast whether it be priuate or publike neither do we commend them only but also we vse them as this yeare last past may most plentifullie witnesse for vs during which publike fasts were most religiously obserued in very many places As for those fasts of Moses and Dauid Helias and Iohn Baptist and the Apostles wherein were they any whit like vnto yours for if fasting do consist in choyce of meates and in appointing set dayes as you resolutely iudge it doth informe me if you can that they either at any time b DVR The auncient obseruation of Lent of VVednesday and Fridates fast and of the Ember daies might haue informed you hereof WHIT. p. 828. 829. You play the Sophister here in graine for Moses Elias Dauid â—ohn Baptist and the Apostles nouerkept those fasts neither did they nor any of the auncient Fathers preferre fish before flesh in theirâ— fastings as you doe DVR Aeriuâ— vvas counted an heretike vvho taught the same doctrine of fasting vvhich you do Epiphan haerel 75. WHIT. pag. 829. 830. The auncient Church disliked Euslathius his eagernes against Aerius in this point as witnesseth Socrates l. 2. c. 43. Sozomen l. 3. c. 13. Aerius might be an Arrian and so an heretike but of fasting he taught the same with Augustine Epist. 86. that there were no certaine times of fasting appointed by the Apostles Tertullian contra Psychicoâ— witnesseth that in the auncient ChristiaÌ„ church meÌ„ vsed to fast voluÌ„tarily freely not by CanoÌ„ or precept Epiphanius defeÌ„ded Eustathius against the churches iudgmeÌ„t in this point touching Aerius preferred fish before flesh or vsed inioyned and yearely set fasts For Iohn Baptist vsed continually to fast in his manner and the others fasted as the times and present occasions required in which their fasts they absteined as well from fish as from flesh Therefore in one word to wipe away your imputation of Homonymie I denie that we vse any For in that that we require the spirituall fast we dislike not the externall 〈◊〉 Tim. 4.8 howsoeuer this outward fast be nothing profitable without the spirituall But this deceitfull argumentation if there were any such here is rather by inferring a weake consequeÌ„t then by Homonymie or equiuocation how beit what the truth is we haue sufficiently ciscussed You haste forward and ioyne vnto these a fourth manner of deceiptfull disputation Circulatio named Circulation which is when one after a few words to no purpose returneth againe to the same and beggeth the question I acknowledge it to be a grosse and vnsauorie kind of sophistry so to do but shew me an example of our so doing You propound one example namely about the true notes of the Church for heere you say we alwayes make circuits and rounds and vse that very same thing for an argument wherein the question lieth But how prooue you that forsooth because we say the notes of the Church be the word of God and the Sacraments And so we say truly for they who haue these haue a Church of Christ but they who altogether want these are vtterly without both the Church and Christ Let vs contend about these notes that it may be discerned whether you or we haue them Tell me in what Court shall we try this title before what Commissioner before what Iudge shall we commence our plea I suppose the word of God must be consulted with But you say you haue alreadie consulted with it and you now fauour our cause lesse then you did before But I say Campian we rest vpon the word of God and not on your iudgement Yea but say you prooue vnto me that this is the word of God nay it were more meete that you should proue it is not And I also require of you that you will do the same thing which you commaund me to do namely that you will proue your word and Sacraments to be the very same which Christ hath commended vnto his Church Wherefore this
is no more our fault then yours the controuersie is about the word of God You contend that you haue it I contrariwise defend that we haue it if you like not my iudgement why may not I dislike yours But you say we expound the word c DVR You doe so for you proue the sense of Scripture vvhich you alleage neither by authoritie of Fathers nor by decrees of Councels nor by the rule of faith that is the common vse and custome of Christians WHIT. pag. 831. The meaning of the Scriptures in matters necessarie to saluation is plainely taught in the Scriptures as the Fathers themselues confesse and may bee found out by religious conferring of easier and harder places and such like meanes and so we proue the true sense of them The Fathers expositions often erre and varie one from another as their writings witnesse and you vvill confesse the auncient Councels expound little of the Scriptures as for the vse and customs of the people it is no rule of faith at all nor must vvee expound the Scriptures thereby amisse I againe auouch that it is false which you say Whither are you now come at last go one foote further forward if you can Why say you I haue the testimonie of fifteene hundred yeeres This is nought else but a friuolous a foolish and an insolent bragge You haue not I say you haue not Campian You are euer heere deceiued and turne round againe as it were into a circle and are faultie in that same very thing for which you reprooue vs. Touching the Fathers I haue answered you alreadie In the questions of greatest waight they are wholly on our d DVR Jf it vvere so you vvould not extenuate their authoritie nor refuse to stand to their iudgement as you doe WHIT. pag. 833. We giue the Fathers their due but rely more vpon the Scriptures which are infallibly true you are driuen from the Scriptures and rake vp euen out of the Fathers ouersights whatsoeuer seemeth to fauour your errors neither doth it follow that the Fathers are not on our side in many and the greatest controuersies because wee say with Augustine that all controuersies of religion must not bee determined out of the Fathers but onely by the Scriptures side in those of smaller moment their iudgemeÌ„ts are diuers and they make for you in very few and those of least importance How much better would it stand with wisedome that as Augustine sometime wrote of Councels neither you should obiect Ierome against me nor I Augustine against you Aug. contra Maximian lib. 3. cap. 14 thereby to preiudice each side but that matter might be tried with matter cause with cause and reason with reason by the authority of the Scriptures Aug. Epist 111. ad Fortunatian For indeed as the same Augustine hath elsewhere taught vs we must not haue any mens disputations howsoeuer otherwise they be meÌ„ of sound iudgement and worthie praise in like estimation as the e DVR No Catholike euer esteemed any mans vvittings to be compared vvith the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 834. But Papists not onely compare them with but also preferre them before the Scriptures for they vvill not haue controuersies tried by the Scriptures but by the Fathers and they sooner allovv a sentence of one Father than many Scriptures so did not Angustine nor Thomas Aquinas Canonicall Scriptures Such an vnderstander saith he am I in reading other mens writings such would I haue other men to be of mine And because you haue mentioned Thomas Aquinas The. Aquinas 1. p. 1. q. 2. Art learne of him what manner argumeÌ„ts may be taken out of the Fathers writings Diuinity or holy learning saith he vseth authorities of Canonicall Scripture to proue or disproue a thing necessarily but it vseth the authorities of other f DVR VVe say not that the iudgement of one or tvvo of the Fathers but that the common consent of the Pasters and Doctors of the Church is the strongest argument to confute you WHIT. 833.835 Augustine and Thomas spake also of all men opposing onely Scriptures vnto them so that apparantly they taught that the consent of all Fathers and Doctors could bee but a probable reason and that the Scriptures onely yeeld necessarie arguments vvhich no consent of men though neuer so learned Doctors and Pastors can confute Further I say pag. 854. that you haue the common consent of all the Fathers in no one cause against vs yea that all the auncient Fathers doe together with vs vvith one voyce condemne your halfe Communion Transubstantiation reall presence sole Communion bread-vvorshipping externall reall sacrifice seruice in strange language your Popes absolute iurisdiction and many other such like Doctors of the Church to dispute of a thing probably These forsooth ô you truly learned Vniuersitie students are those so notorious sophisticall errors which Campian could finde worthie his censure in our mens writings I could wish you might haue this so famons a Sophister to canuas awhile at home in your Schooles then verily would it easily appeare how much truth excelleth falshood and how farre sound learning preuaileth against vaine bragging words for I know well such Sophisters as this is can neither any whit affright nor greatly perplex you EDMVND CAMPIAN The tenth Reason which is all manner of Witnesses THis shall be to you a direct path so that the simplest that bee neede not wander out of it For who is Esay 35. though he be but of the meaner sort of common people so senselesse so that he haue an eye vnto his soules health that cannot see if he looke but a little about him the path of the Church so plainely trodden that cannot keepe it if he dislike of by-wayes that lead him through brambles and ragged roches and places that cannot be passed These things shall be well knowne euen of those that be ignorant as Esay hath prophecied and therefore most manifest vnto you If you will * Campian bringeth nothing in this place but a continuall begging of the question let vs take a view of all things that are any where to be seene let vs trauerse ouer euery thing wheresoeuer it be All things do minister matter fit for our purpose Let vs ascend into heauen by imagination there may we finde such as through martyrdome Coelites are as ruddie as the red a August Serm. 37. de Sanct. rose and also such as for their innocencie while they liued do glister as beautifully as the white Lilly There may we see I say those * Of which not one was a Papist three and thirty Bishops of b Dam. in vit Poâ—â— Rom. Rome which for their faith were immediatlie murthered one after another There may we see such Pastors as throughout all nations vpon the earth shed their blood for the testimony of Christs name There may we see the stock of faithfull people that tread the steps of their Pastors There may wee see