Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	ghost_n	holy_a	inspire_v	2,844	5	10.2489	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78132	A defence of the lavvfulnesse of baptizing infants. As also of the present baptisme, as it hath continued in the severall ages of the world, from John Baptist the first beginner thereof. In way of answer to something written by Iohn Spilsberie against the same.	Barbon, Praisegod, 1596?-1679.	1645 (1645)	Wing B749; Thomason E270_12; ESTC R212355	60,304	74

matter and clean out in this first Notion Second Notion And for succession of truth truth of Ordinances you must understand It comes now by the promise of God and faith of his people whom he as aforesaid hath taken out of the world to the fellowship of the Gospel Answ Setting aside succession and in stead thereof putting in continuation What can be more right then this though not in J. S. his sense The truth of Ordinances continues by vertue of Gods promise made to his people they continuing to beleeve in him and not forgetting his name though many times greatly failing against him as of old yet the truth of Ordinances continue namely the Church and Baptisme now as the Church and Circumcision did of old and this by the promise of God J. S. hath no such sense as this but some inward familisticall sense of inward faith and Gods promise to such secret beleevers which he is never able to make out any such thing that the truth of Ordinances depends upon them in regard of continuation by vertee of the promise of God to them in such a secret way Third Notion To whom the Ordinances of Christ stand only by succession of faith What faith outward or inward and not of persons What faith severed from persons Answ I would fain know what any rationall man can make of this either in it self or as it hath relation to what is before declared Fourth Notion For the same power the Apostles had in former time for direction in godlinesse the Scriptures have in the hand of Christ as the head of the Church which make up but one body 1 Cor. 12. 12. Answ such power for direction in godlinesse the Scriptures had of old when the Apostles lived Some other things J. S. aimeth at but the truth prevaileth and the words he here useth will nothing avail namely of the Scriptures in the hand of Christ joyned with the Church It s worth observing how the Church is here couched just after the manner of the Babylonians that pretend their Church is inspired with the Holy Ghost and cannot erre for Christ the head is in Heaven and hath left his Word for direction in godlinesse for his Church to take heed unto Now the holy Apostles had authority to act Ordinances according to Christs command they were to preach pray break bread and baptize the Scriptures were not sent neither act they any thing as before So as in J. S. his sense it is utterly untrue that the Scriptures in the hand of Christ joyned with the body have the same power to act Ordinances as the Apostles had Notion fift and last So as what the Apostles and Church together might do in acting Ordinances you must understand the same may the head and body together with the Scriptures do now Reader observe how J. S. coucheth subtilly his unbaptized Church betwixt Christ and the Scriptures so as Christ being in heaven and the Scriptures only directive the whole matter for action will fall into the hands of the Church A contrivance as fine as the Papist found out when they were sore put to it by John Hus and the Bohemians and not able to defend themselves and their courses against the truth they invented and abetted this That holy Church could not erre Secondly observe how I. S. quitteth two of these three namely the head and body and concludeth laying all the stresse upon the Scriptures and so in effect saith nothing at all the Scriptures being only directive for saith he the Scriptures have the same whereas he should have said the head and body with the Scriptures have it Thirdly observe what a preposterous conjunction I. S. maketh of three in the matter of fact one of which to wit Christ the head is in Heaven who though he hath fulnesse of power acts not here below but in a providenciall and ministeriall way and the like The Church the second Christs wife is in all things to be obedient to Christ her husband his will and pleasure contained in the Scripture the Scriptures they act not but only direct where is I. S. now just where he was at the first and no further Fourthly this is utterly untrue which he concludeth that what the Church and the Apostles the Ministers of the Churches might do that the Scriptures he quitteth the head and body as before may do Now what might not the Church and the Apostles do in ordinances and administration orderly according to God what can the Scriptures act truly nothing at all their authority is only directive I suppose any one may see how far out I. S. is in these conceits In the close he is up again with revelation which happily if he did study and cleave unto would stand him in more stead then the Scriptures that are so helplesse to him in his cause CHAP. IV. Containing a defence of the opinion of them that hold no right or orderly Ministeriall Church without or before Baptisme I. S. Having ended his former matter against the Churches continuance and likewise the continuance of Baptisme under the popish defection proceeds saying And so we come to such as will have no Church before Baptisme and so make Baptisme the form of the Church Answ Who these such are that he intendeth I cannot tell they are either some of his own way or some other some of his own way do indeed so hold that Baptisme constitutes or is the form of the Church Did I think he intended them I should leave them to try it out and should not intermeddle with the strife I shall only as the matter relates to them shew my thoughts briefly namely that they will be too hard for J. S. in the tenent he himself being of their belief but that he is not true to his owne principle otherwise how should he without Schisme and being a Schismatick leave the reformed and separated Churches and set up another of his own as he hath done only he accounteth them no Churches of Christ and what is the reason he doth so nothing but his Baptisme is wanting so as that must be the form that gives being for otherwise They are companies of Saints professing faith in the righteousnesse of Christ and living accordingly that is in holynesse of life This he describeth to be the matter and the form he declareth to be their being united and knit together in one fellowship or orderly body and that is the Covenant of grace by which God becomes not visibly as he unawars saith but in an outward way of relation a God unto them and they become visibly his people Now what is there to hinder J. S. from being a Schismatick by his own ground for surely nothing hinders those Churches which he forsaketh and disclaimeth as no Churches of Christ by all or any thing that in his description of the matter or form of the Church by him set down can be found and let him take in his five Reasons to help him if he

fellowship c. this is onely true of the proceed of the Church as before but this joyning is to be of baptized matter as it was at the beginning which necessarily calleth either for a person from heaven as in the instance of John or the continuance of baptized persons in the world from John downward as is the case now though J. S. will not acknowledge the same The sum of the distinction he maketh to be this in the first sence the Church is not before the Scriptures In the last sense it is before Baptisme utterly untrue as before J. S. telleth us his distinction being observed we are not to deny a Church to be a Church though the Scriptures doe not so call it So the Scriptures of which he spake so great things in case of raising Baptisme lost are now become deficient and we may be wiser then they teach us and call a people a Church though they doe not so call them or teach us so to doe and we are not so ingaged to speak as the Word of God His reason of this strange divinity is the Church of the Old Testament and many of the new were Churches before they were so called But I say they were not rightly gathered Churches before they were baptized neither doth the Scriptures give that appellation to any in a relative way to Christ and we may not be wise above what is written Cornelius and his friends coming together were no right orderly gathered Church before Baptisme neither doth the Scripture so call them After all said that may be he demandeth why it may not be so that a Church may be a Church before Baptisme be administred why may not children be baptized I would aske him let him tell me that I will tell him why Againe he saith a Church is so a Church before Baptisme as that the end of her union is for communion J. S. at the last doth in effect in a modest way give up the cause A Church so a Church That is in another way then at the beginning it was when it was first instated Againe in another way then according to a right Constitution and orderly way of serving God Again is a Church so as a betrothed Virgin is a wife before the day of her Espouslas and playeth the Harlot in the mean time and so defileth the marriage bed So is an unbaptized Church a Church of Christ After this he is up with the substance of his five Reasons before alledged to prove that Baptisme was not the forme of the Church but the Covenant And what then for I will not meddle with his Reasons be they right or wrong A Church may be in Covenant and fellowship before Baptisme be administred so as Cornelius and his friends were But I say such a Church can never administer Baptisme according to God unlesse they had a man sent to them as Iohn was sent or as Peter was to Cornelius and his friends He is pleased to call such a Church whom the Scripture calleth not so But what he here setteth down he doth as formerly but say it and not prove it so as we need not much stand upon it A People are a Church by covenant he saith to which Ordinances are annexed But the matter of this Church is to be first outwardly sitted by Baptism An orderly way is necessary and that is by persons sent of God as was John here he deceiveth again affirming that of his so a Church which is onely true of a Church stated and on foot according to God in the world as was the Church of the new Testament baptized and so the matter outwardly sitted by John before the building was erected He quoteth Gen. 17. 11. Ezek. 16. 8. Act. 2. 41. Ephes 4. 5. and concludeth thus So here was a Church before Ordinances or before ever Baptisme was administred either by John the Baptist or the Apostles To which I answer in regard of those two places of the old Testament alledged in this matter in question It is at least as far off as the proving the baptizing of Infants from Circumcision or their being baptized of old to Moses in the cloud and sea which he 1 Cor. 10. accounteth nothing to the purpose as indeed this is little to the purpose They use to ask in the instance before when produced whether that Baptisme of the cloud c. was the Baptisme of the new Testament I in like manner ask him whether those were the ministeriall Churches of the new Testament Alas this matter is too far fetcht I could tell him of a Church and a great one too without faith or the profession of it namely that gathered by Demetrius and his fellow Crafts-men Act. 19. 25. 46. he happily will count it to no purpose truly so is his matter here As for those instances in the new Testament sure he was much over-seen in them and very inconsiderate Those Act. 2. 41. had broken bread and prayed and were baptized before they were a Church As for the Church of Ephesus no question but that was also baptized in like manner and he might from that place as well prove a Church to be before faith as before Baptisme by any thing I can perceive Certainly he had little aim in bringing such places of Scripture to prove a people to be a Church of the new Testament before Baptisme was administred to them at least that it should be so before Johns Baptisme that according to the Commission of God administred Baptisme to fit the matter of the Church before ever it was laid into form A further Objection he setteth down thus Some say from Act. 2. 41. they were added to the Church after they were baptized What is his Answer If it were so they should neither put on Christ nor yet be baptized into one body nor to the true profession of the Father Son and holy Ghost c. directly against these Scriptures Gal. 3. 27. 1 Cor. 12. 13. Matth. 28. 19. Answ I am very sorry to see such weaknesse in persons pretending to and promising much strength of knowledge For First all those that John Baptist baptized could neither put on Christ nor be baptized into one body nor into the true profession of the Father c. by his account and reckoning and so his practice of baptizing was contrary to those Scriptures by his reckoning Was not John Baptist to blame Secondly how appeareth it that if persons sent of God as was John of old as is necessary to raise Baptisme if it were lost out of the world as they hold baptizing according to their Commission that those they baptize cannot put on Christ nor be baptized into one body nor into the true profession of the Trinity onely because J. S. saith so without any shew of ground For Thirdly those Scriptures cited have no such thing in them certainly to the judgement of any rationall man neither can it be imagined that there is any let in regard of any of them why a person sent of God should not baptize before the Church be formed For that in Acts 2. 41. he saith It is onely declarative of the great increase of the Church through Gods goodnesse To which I answer That it declareth plainly that they were of and by that Church baptized that they were added unto in as much as the Church receiveth no unwashen ones If it were questioned whether the Church receive them before she baptize them or baptize them before she receive them I would give my thoughts that in strictnesse of concluding neither are first for these are so interwoven that they go together are unseparable As thus persons beleeving being unbaptized the Church openeth her arms to receive them but before she can fully imbrace them they must be washed and so made like the rest of the body There is a different case to be taken knowledge of First of the seed of the Church by generation I mean they are of the Church first and baptized for righteousnesse sake because they are of the Church and for the end before specified Secondly the case of converted Infidels their accesse to the Church and Ordinances is as before as it was in like manner of old in Israel the infants were circumcised because they were a part of Israel that they might answer the whole But the Converts of the Nations they were circumcised that they might be of the Church and have fellowship in the same The case I conceive to be even so now which I note in way of digression as a touch to be Exod. 12. 48. considered of though happily J. S. will think it to no purpose There is another Argument which he setteth down and maketh answer unto all the difference amounteth but to that of the circumstance of time and hath nothing in it substantiall I shall not make the difference greater but shall leave J. S. to his constituting causes of his unbaptized Church and shall forbear to trouble him or my self or the Reader any further but leave all to the judgement of the godly wise FINIS ERRATA PAg. 11. l. 20. for Infants r. Intents p. 13. l. 16. for shrine r. shrinke p. 14. l. 36. for and priviledge r. a priviledge p. 45. l. 34. for constitation r. constitution