Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	ghost_n	holy_a	inspiration_n	3,288	5	10.8693	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76258	Certamen religiosum or, a conference between His late Majestie Charles King of England, and Henry late Marquess and Earl of Worcester, concerning religion; at His Majesties being at Raglan Castle, 1646. Wherein the maine differences (now in controversie) between the Papists and the Protestants is no lesse briefly then accuratly discusss'd and bandied. Now published for the worlds satisfaction of His Majesties constant affection to the Protestant religion. By Tho: Baylie Doctor in Divinity and Sub-Deane of Wels.	Bayly, Thomas, d. 1657?; Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649.; Worcester, Henry Somerset, Marquis of, 1577-1646.	1649 (1649)	Wing B1506; Thomason E1355_1; ESTC R209153	85,962	251

I would faine see it and as faine confide in that of which I had reason to be confident Marq. Take Gidions three hundred men and let the rest begon King Your Lordship speaks mistically will it please you to be plaine a little Marq. Come I see I must come nearer to you Sir It is thus God expected a worke to be done by your hands but you have not answered his expectation nor his mercy towards you when your Enemies had more Cities and Garisons then you had private families to take your part when they had more Cannon then you had Muskets when the people crowded to heap treasures agaidst you whilst your Majesties friends were faine here and there to make a gathering for You when they had Navies at Sea whilst Your Majesty had not so much as a Boat upon the River whilst the odds in number against you was like a full crop against a gleaning then God wrought his miracle in making Your gleaning bigger then their vintage he put the power into your hand and made You able to declare Your self a true man to God and gratefull to Your friends but like the man whom the Prophet makes mention of who bestowed great cost and paines upon his vineyard and at last it brought forth nothing but wilde grapes so when God had done all these things for You and expected that You should have given his Church some respit to their oppressions I heard say You made vowes that if God blest You but that day with * Nazeby Fight Victory you would not leave a Catholike in Your Army for which I fear the Lord is so angry with You that I am afraid he will not give you another day wherein you may so much as trie your fortune Your Majesty had forgot the monies which came unto you from unknown hands and were brought unto you by unknown faces when yau promised you would never forsake your unknown friends you have forgotten the miracalous blessings of the Almighty upon those beginnings and how have you discountenanc'd distrusted dis-regarded I and disgraced the Catholiques all along and at last vowed an extirpation of them Doth not your Majesty see clearly how that in the two great Battailes the North and Nazeby God shewed signes of his displeasure when in the first your Enemies were even at your mercy confusion fell upon you and you lost the day like a man that should so wound his Enemies that he could scarce stand and afterwards his own sword should fly out of the hilt and leave the strong and skilfull to the mercy of his falling enemies and in the second and I fear me the last Battaile that e're you 'le fight whilst your men were crying victory as I hear they had reason so to do your sword broke in the aire which made you a fugitive to your flying enemies Sir I pray pardon my boldnesse for it is Gods cause that makes me so bold and no inclination of my own to be so and give me leave to tell you that God is angry with you and will never be pleased untill you have taken new resolutions concerning your Religion which I pray God direct you or else you 'le fall from nought to worse from thence to nothing King My Lord I cannot so much blame as pitty your zeal the soundnesse of Religion is not to be tried by dint of sword nor must we judge of her truthes by the prosperity of events for then of all men Christians would be most miserable we are not to be thought no followers of Christ by observations drawne from what is crosse or otherwise but by taking up our crosse and following Christ neither do I remember my Lord that I made any such vow before the Battaile of Nazeby concerning Catholiques but some satisfaction I did give my Protestant Subjects who on the other side were perswaded that God blest us the worse for having so many Papists in our Army Marq. The difference is not great I pray God forgive you who have most reason to aske it King I think not so my Lord. Narq Who shall be judge King I pray my Lord let us sit down and let reason take her seat Marq. Reason is no judge King But she may take her place Marq. Not above our Faith King But in our arguments Marq. I beseech your Majesty to give me a reason why you are so much offended with our Church King Truly my Lord I am much offended with your Church if you meane the Church of Rome if it were for no other reason but this for that she hath foisted into her legend so many ridiculous stories as are able to make as much as in them lies Christianitie it self a fable whereas if they had not done this wrong unto the tradition of the primative Church we then had left unto us such rare and unquestionable verities as would have adorned and not dawb'd the Gospel whereas now we know not what is true or false Marq. Sir if it be allowed to question what the Catholick Church holds out for truth because that which they hold forth unto us seemes ridiculous and to picke and chuse verities according to our own fancie and reject as novelties and forgeries what we please as impossibilities and fabulous The Scriptures themselves may as well suffer by this kind of tolleration for what more ridiculous then the Dialoge between Balaam and his Ass or that Sampsons strenght should be in his hair or that he should slay a thousand men with the Jaw-bone of an Ass The Disputation betweeen Saint Michael and the Devil about the body of Moses Philip's being taken up in the air and found at Aroties with a thousand the like strange and to our apprehension if we look upon them with carnall eyes vaine and ridiculous but being they are recorded in Scripture which Scripture we hold for truth we admire but never question them so the fault may not be in the tradition of the Church but in the libertie which men assume to themselves to question the tradition And I beseech Your Majestie to consider the streakes that are drawne over the Divine writ as so many delenda's by such bold hands as those the Testaments were not like the two Tables delivered into the hands of any Moses by the immediate hand of God neither by the Ministration of Angels but men inspired with the holy Ghost writ whose writings by the Church were approved to be by inspiration which inspirations were called Scripture which Scriptures most of them as they are now received into our hands were not received into the Cannon of the Church all within three hundred years after Christ why may not some bold spirits call all those scriptures which were afterwards acknowledged to be Scripture were not before forgeries Nay have not some such as blind as bold done it already Saint Hier was the first that ever pickt a hole in the Scriptures and cut out so many books out of the word of God with the

and whose opinions are most approved of by the Primitive times Fathers and what ground your late Divines have built their new opinions upon and then I shall give your Majesty an answer to the objection which you make against our Church viz. That she hath forsaken her first love and fallen from the principles which she held when she converted us to Christianity But first to the removall of those rubs in our way and then I shall shew as much reverence to the Scripture as any Protestant in the world and shall endeavour to shew your Majesty that the Sctiptures are the Basis or foundation upon which our Church is built Your Majesty was pleased to urge the errors of certain Fathers to the prejudice of their authority which I conceive would have been so had they been all Montanists Rebaptists all Anthropomorphists and all of them generally guilty of the faults where-with they were severally charged in the particulars seeing that when we produce a Father we doe not intend to produce a man in whose mouth was never found guile the infallibility being never artributed by us otherwise then unto the Church not unto particular Church-men as Your Majesty hath most excellenly observed in the failings of the holy Apostles who erred after they had received the holy Ghost in so ample manner but when they were all gathered together in Councell and could send about their edicts with these capitall letters in the front Visum est spiritui sancto nobis Acts 15. 28. then I hope your Majesty cannot say that it was possible for them to erre So though the Fathers might erre in particulars yet those particular errors would be swallowed up in a generall Councel and be no more considerable in respect of the whole then so many heat-drops of error can stand in competition with a cloud of witnesses to the divine truth be no more prejudiciall to their general determinations then so many exceptions are prejudicial to a general rule Neither is a particular defection in any man any exception against his testimony cept it be in the thing wherhin he is deficient for otherwise we should be of the nature of the flies who only prey upon corruption leaving all the rest of the body that is whole unregarded Secondly Your Majesty taxes generall Councels for committing errors If Your Majesty would be pleased to search into the times wherein those Councels were called Your Majesty shall find that the Church was then under persecution and how that Arrian Emperours rather made Assemblies of Divines then called any generall Councels and if we should suppose them to be generall and free Councels yet they could not be erroneous in any particular mans judgement untill a like generall Councel should have concluded the former to be erroneous except you wil allow particulars to condemn generals private men the whol Church all generall Councels from the first unto the last that ever were or shall be maks but one Church and though in their intervails there be no session of persons yet there is perpetuall virtue in their decretals to which every man ought to appeal for judgment in point of controversie Now as it is a maxim in our law Nullum tempus occurrit regi so it is a maxim in divinity Nullum tempus occurrit deo Vbi deus est as he promised I will be with you alwaies unto the end of the world that is with his Church in directing her chief Officers in all their consultations relating either to the truth of her doctrine or the manner of her discipline wherefore if it should be granted that the Church had at any time determined amiss the Church cannot be said to have erred because you must not take the particular time for the Catholick Church because the Church is as well Catholick for time as territory except that you will make rectification an error For as in civil affairs if that wee should take advantage of the Parliaments nulling former Acts and thereupon conclude that we will be no more regulated by its lawes we should breed confusion in the Common-wealth for as they alter their lawes upon experience of present inconveniences so the Councels cange their decrees according to that further knowledge which the holy writ assures us shall encrease in the latter daies provided that this knowledge he improved by means approved of and not by every enthusiastick that shall oppose himself against the whole Church If I recall my own words it is no error but an avoidance of error so where the same power rectifies it selfe though some things formerly have been decreed amiss yet that cannot render the decrees of generall Councels not binding or incident to error quoad ad no● though in themselves and protempore they may be so As to Your Majesties objecting the errors of the holy Apostles and pen-men of the holy Ghost and Your inference thereupon viz. That truth is no where to be found but in holy Scripture under Your Majesties correction I take this to be the greatest argument against the private spirit urged by your Majesty its leading us into all truth that could possibly be found out For if such men as they indued with the holy Ghost inabled with the power of working miracles so sanctyfied in their callings and enlightened in their understandings could erre how can any man lesse quallified assume to himself a freedome from not erring by the assistance of a private spirit Lastly as to Your Majesties quotations of so many Fathers for the Scriptures easines and plainnesse to be understood If the Scriptures themselves doe tell us that they are hard to be understood so that the unleaned and unstable wrest them to their own destruction 2 Peter 3. 16. and if the Scripture tells us that the Eunuch could not understand them except some man should guide him as Acts 8. 13. and if the Scripture tels us that Christs own Disciples could not understand them untill Christ himself expounds them unto them as Luke 24. 25. and if the Scriptures tell us how the Angel wept much because no man was able either in heaven or earth to open the Book sealed with seven seals nor to look upon it as Apoc. 5. 1. then certainly all these sayings of theirs are either to be set to the errata's that are be hind their books or else we must look out some other meaning of their words then what Your Majesty hath inferr'd from thence as thus they were easie id est in aliquibus but not in omnibus locis or thus they were easie as to the attainment of particular salvation but not as to the generall cognisance of all the divine mystery therein contained requisite for the Churches understanding and by her alone and her consultations and discusments guided by an extraordinary and promised assistance only to be found out of which as to every ordinary man this knowledge is not necessary so hereof he is not capable First we hold the reall presence

S. Jer S. Amb S. Aug S. Greg Euthem and Ven Beda give their verdict that it was a true History but suppose it were a parable yet every parable is either true in the persons named or else may be true in some others The Holy Ghost tels no lies nor fables nor speaks not to us in parables consisting either of impossibilities or things improbable Job 5. 1. Call now if there be any that will answer thee and to which of the Saints wilt thou turne It had been a frivolous thing in Eliphaz to have asked Job the question if invocation of Saints had not been the practise of that time The Fathers offirme the same S. Dony cap 7. S. Athan Ser de Annunt S. Basil Orat in 44. Mart. S. Chrys Hom 66. ad Popul S. Hier pray'd to S. Paula in Epitaph S. Paulae S. Maximus to S. Agnes Ser de S. Agnete S. Bern to our blessed Lady We hold Confirmation necessary you not we have Scripture for it Acts 8. 14. Peter and John prayed for them that they might receive the holy Ghost for as yet he was fallen upon none of them only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Then laid they their hands on them and they received the holy Ghost Where we see the holy Ghost was given in Confirmation which was not given in Baptism also Heb 6. 1. Therefore leaving the principles of the Doctrine of Christ let us go on unto perfection not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith towards God of Baptisme and of Laying on of hands The Fathers affirme the same Tert li de Resurect Carn S. Pacian lib de Bapt S Amb lib de Sac S. Hier Cont Lucif S. Cypr li 2. Ep 1. speaking both of Baptisme and Confirmation saith Then they may be sanctified and be the sons of God if they be borne in both Sacraments We hold it sufficient to communicate in one kind you not we have Scripture for it Joh. 6. 15. If any man eat of this bread he shall live for ever If everlasting life be sufficient then is it also sufficient to communicate under one kind So Acts 2. 42. And they continued stedfastly in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship or communion and in breaking of bread prayer where is no mention of the cup yet they remained stedfast in the Apostles doctrin Luk. 24. 30. 8. 35. where Christ communicated his two Disciples under one kind Saint Augustine and Theophilact lib de Consens Evang cap 25. expound this place of the blessed Sacrament S. Chrys Hom 17. oper imperfecti We hold that Christ offered up unto his Father in the Sacrifice of the Masse as an expiation for the sins of the people is a true and proper Sacifice this you deny this we prove by Scripture viz. Malach 1. 11. from the rising of the Sun unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles and in every place incense shall be offered to my name and a pure offering This could not be meant of the figurative offerings of the Jewes because it was spoken of the Gentiles neither can it be understood of the reall Sacrifice of Christ upon the Crosse because that was done but in one place and at one time and then and there not among the Gentiles neither which could be no other but the daily Sacrfice of the Masse which is and ever was from East to West a pure and daily Sacrifice Luke 22. 19. This is my body which is given for you not to you therefore a Sacrifice The Fathers are of this opinion S. Clem Apost Const li 6. cap. 23. who calleth it a reasonable unbloudy and misticall Sacrament S. Aug li 1. Cont adverse leg proph cap 18. 19. calleth it a singular and most excellent Sacrifice S. Chrys hom in Psa 95. calleth it a pure and unbloudy host a heavenly and most reverend Sacrifice S. Greg Nicen Orat 4. de Resurrect We say that the Sacrament of orders confers grace upon those on whom the hands of the Presbytery are imposed you both deny it to be a Sacrament notwithstanding the holy Ghost is given unto them thereby and also you deny that it confers any inferiour grace at all upon them we have Scripture for what we hold viz. 1 Tim 4. 14. Neglect not the gift that is in thee which was given thee by Prophesie and with the laying on the hands of the Presbytery So 1 Tim 1. 6. Stir up rhe gift of God which is in thee by the putting on my hands S. Aug li 4. Quaest super num S. Cyp Ep ad Magnum optatus Milevit the place beginneth ne quis miretur Tertul in prescript The place beginneth Edant Origines We hold that the Priest and other Religious persons who have vowed chastity to God may not marry afterwards you deny first that it is lawfull to make any such vowes and secondly That those who have made any such vowes are not bound to keep them we have Scripture for what we hold Deuteronomie 23. 22. When thou shalt vow a vow unto the Lord thy God thou shalt not slack to pay it for the Lord thy God will require it of thee So 1 Tim 5. 11 12. But the younger widdows refuse for when they have begun to wax wanton against the Lord they will marry having damnation because they have cast off their first faith What can be meant hereby but the vow of Chastity or by their first faith but some promise made to Christ in that behalfe otherwise Marriage could not be damnable so all the antient Fathers have expounded it Saint Aug li de bono viduit cap 9. Saint Athanas lib de Virginitat Saint Epiph Heres 48. Saint Hier Cont Jovin li 1. ca 7. We say Christ descended into Hell and delivered thence the Soules of the Fathers ye deny it we have Scripture for it viz. 1 Ephes 4. 8. When he ascended up on high he led captivity captive c. Descending first into the lower part of the Earth This lower part of the Earth could not be a Grave for that was the upper part nor could it have been the place of the damned for the Devils would have been brought again into heaven more clearly Acts 2. 27. Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell neither wilt thou suffer thy holy one to see corruption there is hell for his soul for a time and the grave for his body for a while plainer yet 1 Pet. 3. 18. 19. Being put to death in the flesh but quickned by the Spirit by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison this prison cannot be heaven nor hell as it is the place of the damned nor the grave as it is the place of rest therefore it must be as Saint Aug Epist 99. ad Evod. saith some third place which third place the Fathers have called Limbus patrum also Zachary 9. 11. As for thee also by the bloud of

Christ was first published by him i Luth. Ep. ad Argent An. 1525. and by all of you that he was the first reformer this is he who cals himself a more excellent Doctor then all those who are in the papacy k Epist ad Anonymum tom 5. This is he who thus brags of himselfe viz. Dr. Martin Luther wil have it so a Papist and an Asse are directly the same so is my will such is my command my will is my reason l Luth. tom 5. Germ. fol. from 141. to 144. This is he that tels you I will have you to know that I will not hereafter vouchsafe you the honour as that I will suffer either you or the very Angels of heaven to judge of my doctrine c. Nor will I have my doctrine judged by any no not by the Angels themselves for I being certain thereof will by it be judge both of you and the Angels m Luth. ad ves falso nomin Eccles stat prope init And lastly this is he that gave the alarme to all Christendome of the errors idolatries superstitions and prophannes of the Church of Rome but what Scriptures have you for it that you should not believe the Scriptures what Fathers have you that you should not believe the Church what custome have you that you should not believe the Fathers rather then any private interpretation the promised holy Ghost alwaies ruling in the Church rather then the presumed private Spirit in any particular man The Church of Geneva NOw for the Church of Geneva Calvin comming after him is not contented to stop himselfe at Luthers bounds but he goes further and detracts not only from the Scripture but from Christ and God himself For first He maintaines that three essences doe arise out of the holy Trinity a Tract theol p. 793. That the Sonne hath his substance distinct from the Father and that he is a distinct God from the Father b Act. Serv. p. 249 250. 871 872. He teacheth that the Father can neither wholly nor by parts communicate his nature to Christ but must withall be deprived thereof himself c Tract theol p. 771 772. He denies that the Sonne is begotten of the Father substance d 1 Instit ca 13. sect 23. 29. and essence affirming that he is God of himself not God of God d He saies that that dream of the absalute power of God which the School-men have brought in is execrable blasphemy e Calv. ad cap. 23. Ezech. gal script also Instit li. 3. c. 23. sect 2. He saith that where it is said that the Father is greater then I it hath been restrained to the humane nature of Christ but I do not doubt to extend it to him as God and man f Tract theol p. 794. see p. 792. 2. Instit ca. 14. sect 3. and ca. 17. Jo. v. 12. and ca. 22. Math. He severeth the person of the Mediator from Christs divine person maintaining with Nestorius 2 persons in Christ the one humane and the other divine g L. 1. Instit ca. 13. sect 9. 23 ' 24. That Christs soule was subject to ignorance and that this was the only difference betwixt us and him that our infirmities are of necessity and this was voluntary h In Ca. 2. Luke v. 40. That it is evident that ignorance was common to Christ with the Angels i In ca. 24 Mat. v. 36. And particulariseth wherein viz. that he knew not the day of Judgement k In ca. 24. Mat. v. 36. Nor that the Fig-tree was barren which he cursed till he came near it l In c. 21 Mat. v. 19. also ib. c. 9. v. 2. He is not afraid to censure certaine words of Christ to be but a weak confutation of what he sought to refute m In c. 12. Mat. v. 25. And saies Christ seemes here not to reason solidly n Id in c. 9. Mat. v. 5. He tels us that this similitude of Christ seemes to be harsh and farre fetch'd and a little after the similitude of sifting doth not hang together o Calv in c. 16. 22. Luk Where Christ inferred All things therefore whatsoever you will c. Calvin giveth it this glosse It is a supurfluous or vaine illation p In c. 7. Mat. v. 12. This metaphor of Christ is somewhat harsh q In c. 9. Mat. v. 49. He saith insomuch as Christ should promise from God a reward to fasting it was an improper speech r In Mat. c. 9. v. 16 17 18. He writeth of a saying of Christ that it seemes to be spoken improperly and absurdly in French sans raison s In c. 3. ●oan v. 21. He saith that Christ refused and denyed as much as lay in him to performe the office of a Mediator t In c. 26. Mat v. 39. That he manifested his own effeminateness by his shunning of death u Ca 12. Jo. v. 27. He saith that Theeves and malefactors hasten to death with obstinate resolution dispising it with haughty courage others mildly suffer it but what constancy stoutness or courage was there in the son of God who was astonished and in a manner striken dead with fear of death how shamefull a tendernesse was it to be so far tormented with fear of common death as to melt in bloudy sweat and not to be able to be comforted but by the fight of Angels w Li 2. Instit ca. 16. Ser 22. And that the same vehemency took him from the present memory of the heavenly decree so that he forgot at that instant that he was sent hither to be our redeemer a In c. 26. Mat v. 39. This prayer of Christ was not premeditate but the force and extremity of grief wringed from him this hasty speech to which a correction was presently added and a little before he chastiseth and recalleth that vow of his which he had let suddainly slip b Id 16. Thus do we see Christ to be on all sides so vexed as being over-whelmed with desperation he ceased to call upon God which was as much as to renounce his salvation and this saith he a little before was not fained or as a thing only acted upon a stage c In c. 27. Mat v. 46 47. That Christ in his soul suffered the terrible torments of a damned and for saken man d L. 2. Instit c. 16. Sect 10. In the death of Christ occurs a spectacle full of desperation e In c. 27. Mat v. 57. In this spectacle there was nothing but matter of extreame despaire f In c. 14. Joan v. 6. It is no marvell if it be said that Christ went down into Hell since he suffered that death wherewith God in wrath striketh wicked doers g L. 2. Instit ca 6. Sect 10. That Christ sitting at the right hand of his Father holds but a second degree with him in honour and