Where the first person in trinitie is pointed vnto Then it is sayd this is my beloued sonne There the second person is at Thirdly it is sayd that the spirit of God descended and lighted vpon him like a done Which plainlie noteth out the third person which is the holy Ghost and thus you see how y e scriptures doe auouch a plaine distinction of persons as wee say a trinitie in vnitie a vnitie in trinitie Father Yet I cannot by any reason discerne but if euery person be God then there must needs be three Gods Child We must not in this case consult with reason but simply beléeue the Scriptures though wee cannot comprehend by humane reason the manner or rather mistery of this matter For it far excéedeth all humane reach and capacitie Father Is not one person in trinitie greater then an other as the Father greater then the Sonne and the Sonne greater then the holy Ghost Child No for the persons be coequall coeternall and coessentiall Father How vnderstand you that worde coessentiall which the learned call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Child The persons in trinitie are called coessentiall not because they are only of like essence as wée sée the particulars of the same kind to be in naturall things as in thrée apples growing together in one and such like but because they are indéede one and the selfe same simple essence Therefore the persons of the deitie cannot without blasphemie be said to be onely coherent together in substance or onely of like substance Father Is it not necessarie that Christians should be well grounded in the knowledge of this vnitie of the Godhead and the distinction of the persons Child Yes verely For many errours and heresies haue growen in the world about these points Father Doe you not beleeue that the euerlasting God hath made heauen and earth and the sea all things in them contained Child Yes they are all the works of his hands Father How did he make them Child By his word As it is written Through faith wée vnderstand that the world was ordained by the word of God Father Whereof did hee make the world and all things in it Child Of nothing As it is written The thinges which wée sée are not made of things which did appeare Father To what end did God create heauen and earth Child To set forth his glorie Father Hath not God as greate a care for the conseruation of the world and all particular creatures in it as euer he had to create them Child Gods care is no lesse for the conseruation of the creature then first it was for the creation For as in great wisedome he made them all So in as great wisedome hée doth preserue thē al He is not as a carpenter which hauing built a house afterward taketh no more care of it Father Do you not thinke that God also created the Angels Child Yes they also are the workes of his fingers Father When did he create them Child In the beginning when he made all other creatures Father In which of the sixe dayes were the Angels created Child That is a curious question and I can giue you no certaine answere vnto it but it is most likely and probable that it was in the sixt and last day when man was created after Gods owne image For the Angels carry the greatest Image of God in them Father What is an Angell Child An inuisible spirit Father Our Lord Iesus saith that God is a spirit What difference then make you betwixt God and an Angell Child The difference is excéeding great For God is an infinite spirit the Angels are but finite GOD is the creator the Angels be but creatures and although they bée very glorious creatures yet God doth infinitly excéede them in glory Father Do not the Angels of all other creatures come nearest vnto the nature of GOD and furthest excell the nature of man Child The angelicall nature doth exist as a meane betwixt God mā although far nearer the lower then the vpper extreame Participating somewhat of each nature hauing had a béeginning as man and yet being immortall with God consisting of matter and forme as doth a man yet voyde of all mixture as God Subsisting in some matter subiect as a man yet being incorporeall as God Ignorant of some things as a man yet of wonderfull capacitie and knowledge as God and in a word being euery way finit as a man yet perfect in all respects as God Father As you haue shewed me the proper attributes of God so also shew the proper attributes of the Angels that so wee may more clearely discerne their glorious nature Child The Angels haue essentiall attributes proportionable though not comparable to those in God For Gods absolute vbiquitie they haue successiue vbiquity for the eternity of God they haue immortalitie for his most simple nature they haue a most thin subtile essence for his omnipotency they haue great power and might Father How proue you that the Angels haue so great power and might Child Out of the Psalme Where it is said Praise the Lord ye his Angels which excell in strength And againe out of the Booke of the Kings Where wée read that one Angell in one night did destroy the whole army of Synacherib Kinge of Assiria being an hundred fourescore and fiue thousand Father What thinke you of the agilitie and swiftnesse of Angels Child I thinke by reason of their agile and thinne substance being far more subtile and thin then the ayre it selfe that they glide thorow the ayre with vnconcernable swiftnesse and can bée any where in a moment as God is alwayes euery where Father What is your reason Child My reason is this we sée by daily experience that the sun being a visible body doth fetch the whole compas of the heauens in foure twenty houres and it is well knowne to all y e learned that the circle or circumference of the sun doth by many degrées excéede the circle or globe of y e whole earth néeds therefore must the Sunne bée caried in an vnspeakeable swift motion farre passing the musket shotte for else how could it goe through his whole spheare in 24. houres as we sée it doth then consequently it followeth that the motion of Angels must néedes bée much swifter then that of the Sunne because they are of a more thin agile aiery and inuisible nature Father Can an Angell be in many places at once Child No but in a minute of time they can be any where as I said before Father What say you to the knowledge and vnderstanding of Angels Child I say that it is excéeding great in all things far passing all knowledge of men though neuer so learned skilful Father Doe the Angels know all things Child No they are ignorant of some things as of mēs particular thoughts of some things to come of the last day and of the essence of God Father What
A PASTIME for Parents OR A recreation to passe away the time contayning the most principall grounds of Christian Religion By Arthur Dent preacher of the word of God at South-Shoobery in Essex LONDON Printed by T. E. for Thomas Man 1606. A PASTIME for Parents to bee vsed with their children for recreation to passe away the time containing the most principall grounds of Christian religion Father VVHat is God Child An infinite perfection whose being is of himselfe Father Where is God Child Alwaies euery where as the aire Father Whether is the Godhead a thing onely imaginarie or no Child The Godhead is not a thing which onely may bée conceiued in thought but indéed is a most pure and infinite selfebeing Father How then doe you conceiue of the essence and being of the Godhead Child That the substance or essence of the dietie is of all things most simple and single and is neither diuided multiplyed nor compact of any elementarie qualitie Father Expresse your minde morefully Child This I meane that the diuine nature is one simple vniforme immateriall impassible immutable illocall eternall omnipotent omniscient infinite void of al mixture cōposition combinatiō diuision or dissimilitude Father Which be the proper and essentiall attributes of God Child The proper attributes of God are vbiquitie eternitie vnitie simplicitie omnipotency for these do spring from his essence and forme as naturally necessarily and directly as the beames light heat issue from the Sunne as the streames from a fountaine of water Father Can these essentiall attributes of God increase or decrease Child Nothing that is in GOD can bée augmented or diminished or anie way altered For as hée is once at any time so is hée alwaies at all times Father What may we learne out of this Child To feare and tremble so often as wée thinke or speake of this infinite Maiestie Father What are we especially to consider in God for our comfort and instruction Child His wisedome prouidence iustice and mercie Father Are not all these in God as accidents or accidentall qualities Child No For there are no accidents or accidentall qualities in God that is nothing seperable or mutable but all these are in God as essentiall and inseperable properties or if you will of the very essence of God Father Are not these forenamed qualities of wisedome prouidence iustice and mercie accidentall and seperable both in men and Angels Child Yes verely for they are no part of their nature or essence nor yet essentiall properties for they may bée remooued and seperated from their subiects Father You said before that God is alwaies euery where that is in all places at once but how can that bee sith the opinion is that God is onely in heauen Child God as touching his essence is no more in heauen then in this inferior world but he is said to be in heauen because his glory and maiestie doth there most clearely shine out Father Sith God is in all places at once tell me also whether he doth know all things at once Child God doth know all mens thoughts words and déeds at once all that euer haue béene are and shall be For there is nothing past or to come with God but all things are alwayes present and it is as easie a matter for God to comprehend all things past present and to come at once as it is for vs to tell one two thrée Father Is it not daungerous then to haue any base thoughts of God or carnally or basely to imagine that God is like a man or any other creature Child Yes assuredly For it is high treason to haue any such thoughts or vile conceits of God for God is like no thing as the Prophet saith to whom will ye liken God Father Is not the sinne of the Papists verie great which make Images and similitudes of God and set them vp in their Churches to breed carnall thoughts and imaginations of God in the hearts of the people Child It is a very high degrée of blasphemie for the Prophet saith What similitude will you set vp vnto him and another Prophet saith that the Image is a teacher of lies Father What shall we say then to our common swearers which daily blaspheme this great maiesty of God and take his most holy and sacred name in vaine for euery trifle Child They shall one day know and féele to their euerlasting woe what it is to blaspheme such an infinite maiestie Father What vse are the people of God to make of all this Child This to haue so great a maiestie alwayes in singular admiration and reuerence And the rather because in these corrupt times men grow so fast towards atheisme and prophainnesse that there is no more any common deuotion amongest them or any Reuerence of a Godhead Father What yet further doe you consider in God Child That he is one in substance thrée in persons I meane that in this most simple and single essence the three seuerall persons doe subsist Father Doe you meane that the Godhead is distinguished or diuided into three persons Child No for the essence of the Godhead is so simple and single as I said that it can neither bée distinguished deuided or multiplyed no not when the Sonne is sayd to bée GOD of God Father Are not the persons in the Godhead distinguished Child Yes the persons are distinguished each from other by their proper and incommunicable proprieties that is their diuers manner of being which they haue in the Godhead As the Father by creation the Sonne by redemption the holy Ghost by sanctification Father Expresse your meaning yet more fully Child My meaning is this that although the substance of the deity being most simple and single cannot be deuided or distinguished nor the same essence seperated yet I say the persons are so distinguished in office not in essēce as the one of them cannot possibly be the other Father What call you the persons in the trinitie Child I call a person a subsistence in the essence of God which hauing relation to others is distinguished by his incommunicable propriety Father Is not euery person the whole and the same substance of the deitie Child Yes for euery person is by himselfe God Father Are there not then three Gods Child No for the Scripture teacheth plainely that there is but one God and thrée persons As 1. Iohn saith there are thrée which beare record in heauen the father the word and the holy Ghost and these thrée are one that is one in substance and thrée in persons and there bée many other places of scriptures which proue the distinction of the persons As where it is sayd goe and teach all nations baptising them in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost And againe in the third chapter of the Gospel of Saint Mathew ve 16. 17. Where first mention is made of a voice from heauen which was the voice of the Father
afterward be left to our selues but sufficiently armed with spirituall strength from aboue to outstand all temptations whatsoeuer that so all prayse may redound to him which worketh all in all Father As you haue shewed me the matter and circumstances of prayer so shew me the effects of prayer Child It were an endlesse labour to enter into that sith the scriptures do plentifully teach that all hard admirable things haue béene compassed effected by prayer both for the turning away of euill and the purchasing of good Father Then tell me what things are especially to be obserued of vs in prayer Child There be nine speciall things to be obserued of vs in prayer Father Which be they Child Repentance meditation humiliation faith loue zeale thanksgiuing watchfulnesse obedience Wherof the first thrée goe before prayer the next thrée are in the action of prayer The last thrée follow after prayer Father Open your meaning more plainly Child My meaning is this that our prayers can neuer bée currant and good in the sight of God except before prayer first wée come with great sorrow for sin strong purposes of amendment Secondly except wée muse meditate very déeply of y t great and manifolde dangers wée goe in euery day both within vs without vs Thirdly except wée bée throughly humbled with the cōscience of our former transgressions Moreouer in y t actiō of praier ther is nothing sound acceptable to god except faith be present y t is a full assurance to be heard for Christ for the promises made in him Secondly except loue toward our brethrē be there also without enuy wrath all vncharitable affectiōs Thirdly except zeale that is pure earnest affectiōs beare the chiefe sway in this action for god abhorreth coldnes Lastly except there be heartie thanksgiuing for fauours obtained watchfullnes ouer our affections afterward and speciall care of bettering our obedience in all time to come Father Doth not our Lord Iesus in the preface of his prayer teach vs all these things concerning the manner of prayer Child Yes our Lord Iesus in his preface doth in general termes teach all these things for hée teacheth vs to pray in faith feare loue In faith and assurance because God is our Father in feare reuerēce because he is in heauen In loue because hée is our father that is a common father to vs all Father If we pray according to these rules are we not sure to be heard Child Yes certainly As the scriptures do abundantly teach vs and as it may appeare by this reason that in prayer there is the mutuall and ioynt worke of the whole trinitie the holy Ghost moouing and quickning the Son mediating the father hearing and graciously returning an answere Father But yet wee see by experience that God doth not alwayes grant the petitions and requests of his owne children Shew me therefore some reasons why God somtimes denieth the requests of those whom he loueth most dearely Child There bée foure reasons hereof first because God hath otherwise decréed with himselfe Secondly because they know not oftentimes what to aske Thirdly because hée in his déepe wisedome séeth it not good for them Lastly because God will try their faith loue patience and constancy Father Hauing thus farre spoken of prayer as one speciall meanes whereby our faith is increased Let vs now further proceede to speake of the Sacraments as of an other speciall helpe and first of all tell me what is a Sacrament Child A Sacrament is an holy signe or seale ordained of God to confirme our faith to testifie our obedience to his maiesty and our loue and fellowship one with another Father How many Sacraments be there Child There are but two Sacraments of the new couenant namely baptisme and the supper of the Lord for those onely are Sacraments of the newe testament which are ceremonies instituted of Christ for the common vse of the whole Church hauing the promise of grace annexed vnto them which excludeth fiue of the popish sacraments Father Why are the sacraments called signes Child Because they represent to our selues spirituall things and set forth Christ his benefits to the outward sences of all Father Why are they called seales Child Béecause they seale vnto our consciences the assurance of the forgiuenesse of sinne and because they doe effectually apply to the faithful the truth and fruit of Christs death Father Are our sacraments but bare signes and figures as the papists charge vs Child Oursacraments are not bare signes and figures but figures ioyned with their truth and substance and such as not onely represent but exhibite vnto vs the bodie blood of Christ Father Make this more plaine Child The Sacraments are signes to represent seales to confirme and instruments to conuey Christ and all his benefits to the beléeuers they represent béecause wée are dull to conceiue and remember they seale because wée are full of vnbeléefe they conuey Christ vnto vs béecause otherwise wée doe hardly apprehend him Father The Papists charge vs that we affirme an imaginary figuratiue and spirituall body of Christ to be present in the sacrament and not his essentiall body What say you to that Child They doe falsely so charge vs for wée hold that the Godly receiue the true and naturall body of Christ and are partakers of his very substance to make vs grow into one life with him for wée can haue no benefit by Christ vntill wée bée partakers of Christ himselfe and that in such sort that we become flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone that is one with him and he with vs Howbeit not corporally but in such sort as is agréeable to a Sacrament that is to say spiritually and mistically Father Lay open this point more at large Child Our coniunction with Christ is not in imagination conceit onely but is reall substantiall though secret and hard to be comprehended and therefore the Apostle calleth it a great mistery For we are tied to Christ by his spirit as the naturall members to the head by ioynts and sinewes in a most secret and admirable manner For wée may not carnally conceiue of this our coniunction with Christ as though there were any mingling of his body and ours his substance and ours or his person ours for all things that are vnited one to another are not straight wayes mingled for although the light is ioyned with the ayre and the Sunshine with the windowes yet can we not therefore say they are mingled together The coniunction in couenant betwixt man wife maketh them two one flesh so néere is it yet for all that they cease not to be diuers persons and sundry substance although by couenāt they are one flesh Such is the coniunction and vnion betwixt Christ and vs for we are indeede vnited with the flesh of Christ and are flesh of his flesh and bones of his bones yet is
or at least that haue knowledge in this present action and such as haue faith repentance and loue Father How shall a man know that hee hath these things Child Thrée wayes First by his setled purpose desire to obey God according to al the commandements of the law Secondly by his loue to the word of god Thirdly by his daily fruits towards God and men Father Who are to be reiected and put back from the communion Child Thrée sorts of men Father Which be they Child First strangers that is such as are vnknowen to the Pastor are not to bée admitted as it is written A stranger shall not eate thereof Secondly Ideots children mad men and fooles are not to be admitted for they cannot examine themselues according to the Apostles rules Thirdly notorious euill liuers by whom the congregation is offended for it is written Giue not that which is holy vnto dogs Againe It is forbidden in the law that any man being circūcised should be admitted to the communicating of the passouer because they were polluted by touching a dead corps and being at a buriall God gaue often charges and commaundements in the law that if any man had vnwittingly defiled himselfe by any legall pollution he might not enter into his owne house much lesse approch vnto the Passouer till he was purified and cleansed by offring vp a Sacrifice Now all these Scriptures do plainely prooue that no prophane or filthy persons as whooremongers drunkards blasphemers riotters and scoffers at religion and such like may be admitted to the holy communion Father What say you to such as shew no loue nor desire to this holy ordinance of God nor once so much as offer themselues vnto it except sometimes at Easter a little for fashion and law sake Child Such do shew themselues to bée little better then miscreants and atheists for they do contemptuously refuse the grace of God which hée offreth in this supper and doubtlesse to abstaine of set purpose is no lesse sinne then to receiue vnworthily For that patient which is daungerously sicke and yet maketh no account of the Phisitions receit and order deserueth no lesse blame then hée which abuseth the same receit that is doth not vse it according to that diet and order that was prescribed him Father If some very bad persons chaunce to creepe in or thrust in themselues to bee partakers of this holy institution is therfore the whole action defiled Child God forbid for wée read throughout the scriptures that good bad haue béene mingled together in matters of Gods worship and seruice both word prayer sacraments and sacifices and sure it is that the wickednes of the wicked cannot defile or pollute either the Sacrament it selfe or any of the godly communicants but onely themselues Father Are all to be admited to the sacrament of the Lords supper which professe saith and repentance either in truth or in shew Child Yes Vnlesse there bée some speciall exceptions taken against them For it is written al the cōgregation of Israel shal obserue it through their generations that is to say all the members of the visible Church which are within the outward couenant Father How ought ministers to deale with many ignorant simple men seely soules which are able to yeeld small reason of their faith are they all to be admitted to the communion or all to be reiected Child As ministers ought not rashly to accept of all that offer themselues without examination and conference so ought they not lightly to shut out any from that which should seale vp their remission of sinnes For albeit they be somewhat ignorant and simple yet finding in them any séeds of religion and sparks of the feare of God shewing it selfe in some tractablenesse to know God and in loue to the word they are to admit them with encouraging and exhorting them to go forward But if with ignorance and blindnesse be ioyned either froward contempt of meanes or méere carelesnesse or open wicked behauiour or profane dissolutenes without remorse when they be dealt withall Then they are with all mildnesse to be shut out All glory be giuen to God FINIS Iob. 11. 7. Psal 139. Exod. 3. Esay 40. Verse 18. Esay 40. Abac. 2. 18 Iohn 1. 7. Mat. 28. ver 19. Act. 4. 24. Heb. 11 3. Heb. 11. 3. Psal 19. Psal 104. ver 27. 28. Col. 1. 16. Col. 1. 16 Ioh. 4. 24. Psal 103. ver 20. Psal 34. 7. Mat. 18. 10. Psa 1. 91. 11 Mat. 18. 10. Esay 9. 2. Iohn 8. 44 2. Pet. 2. 4. Iud. ver 6. Mark 9. Mat. 26. 13 Mat. 12. 26 Eph. 6. 12. Eph. 1. 7. Eph. 6. 12. Iob. 1. 7. 1. Pet. ca. 8. Mat. 8. 29. 2. Pet. 2. 4. Iud. ver 6. Gen. 1. 26. Gen. 3. Rom. 5. Iam. 1. 14. Rom. 7. 15 1. Cor. 2. 14 Heb. 6. 4. Rom. 8. 8. Tit. 1. 15. Iohn 3. 3 Iame. 1. 18 Eph. 1. 13. Rom. 3. 20. Exod. 19. Exod. 19. Rom. 2. 2. Rom. 7. Rom. 7. Rom. 6. 14. Gal. 5. 13. 2. Cor. 3. 8. Heb. 1. 1. Rom. 6. 23. Iam. 2. 10. Gal. 3. 13. 2. Cor. 1. 21. Col. 1. 20. Col. 1. 14. Eph. 2. 13. Heb. 9. 12. Eph. 2. 14. Col. 1. 21. 2. Cor 5. 19 Ioh. 3. 15. Iohn 5. 24 1. Cor. 1. 30 Act. 4. 12. Act. 10. 43. Eph. 2. 3. Esay 64. 6. Iame. c. 13 1. Tim. 2. 8 Ioh. 15. 7. 1. Ioh. 3. 22 1. Ioh. 5 14. Eze. 14. 14 Mat. 20. 22 2. Cor. 12. 9 Luk. 18. 7. Lament 3 8. Eph. 5. 1. Cor. 10. 2 Gen. 15. 9. Iud. 6. 37. 2. Reg. 20. ◠Gen. 17. 7. 1. Cor. 7. 14 Act. 2. 39. Luk. 18. 16. 1. Cor. 11. Exo. 12. 45. 1. Cor. 11. 28 Mat. 7. 6. Exo. 12. 41. Num. 9. 6. Leuit. 13. Leuit. 14. Leuit. 15. Exo. 12. 47.
reason can you yeelde that Angels know not the essence of God Child This the essence of God is infinit therefore no Angell can know it or comprehend it For that which is finit cannot cōprehend that which is infinit but the Angels are finite therefore they cannot comprehend y e essence of God being infinit for the essence of God is verely knowen to himselfe he knoweth his owne essence and therefore hée is infinit For whatsoeuer knoweth comprehendeth that which is infinit must néeds it selfe be infinit Father Where be the holy and elect Angels of God Child Then bée both in heauen earth and the aire And wheresoeuer any people of God bée there be they also Father What is the speciall office of the good Angels Child To preserue the children of God to gard them to minister vnto them and to kéepe them in all their wayes Father What is the reason that the Angels are discribed with six wings a peece in the Scriptures Child They haue two winges to couer their face because they are not able to indure the brightnesse of Gods glory they haue two wings to couer their féet because man is not able to abide the brightnes y t is in them they haue two to fly withal to signifie their readines prompt obedience to all the commandements of God Father What vse are wee to make of all this that God is so infinite in himselfe and so glorious in all his creatures specially in the Angels Sunne Moone and Starres c. Child We are not onely to feare dread and reuerence so great a maiestie but also to loue him worshippe him and obey him with all our hearts with all our spirit and with all our strength and with all our thoughts Father Did not the blessed Angels fall from that excellent estate wherein they were first created Child Many of them fell from their first estate became diuels as appeareth in the Scriptures Father What was the cause or chiefe motiue of the fall Child They fell of themselues that is to say through their owne motion will disposition without any instigation of any other or any former motiue whatsoeuer which thing caused God to cast them downe without all hope of recouery but man falling by the first motiue and by instigation of others hath left vnto him an assured hope of recouery Father Is not the number of the Angels that fell from their first estate and became diuels very great Child Yes excéeding great for the diuell being demanded by our Lord Iesus what was his name answered My name is Legion for saith hée wée are many which plainely prooueth that there be many diuels Father What doe you call a Legion Child A Legion according to the account of the Romans was sixe thousand footmen Our Lord Iesus said to Peter Put vp thy sword for doest thou not thinke that I can now pray to my father and he will giue me more then twelue Legions of Angels So then it appeareth by the scriptures that there bée very many both good Angels and bad Father If there bee so many diuels why doth the Scripture speake of the diuell in the singular number as if there were but one Child There bée multitudes of infernall Spirits but yet they doe so ioyne together in one that they bée called the diuell in the singuler number because there is a kingdome of them and a vnited societie vnder one head prince or principall diuell and they doe all ioyne to vphold their societie and kingdome as Christ teacheth Father Did the diuels by their fall loose that great power and strength which they had by nature and creation Child No They doe still retaine their first power and strength as experiance teacheth and the Scriptures doe call as well the Diuels as the good angels principalities powers Father Haue the diuels by their fall lost that great wisedome and vnderstanding which they had in their first estate Child No But they haue corrupted and depraued it and turned it from wisedome into déepe craft and subtiltie the like may be sayd for their swiftnesse and agilitie Father Where are the diuels what place do they keepe in Child Their principall aboad is in the ayre through the which they glide too and fro with vnspeakable swiftnesse and therefore the Apostle calleth the diuell the Prince of the ayre and the diuels are said to be in y e high places Father The common opinion is that the diuels be shut vp in hell as it were in a dungeon of darknesse and that they neuer come out except they be forced and raised vp by coniurers Child That is an ignorant false and fantasticate opinion quite contrary to the Scriptures which teach that the diuels are in places héere below Father Is it not a true and warrantable speech to say that the diuels are in hell Child Yes If you take hell metaphorically for the torments they are in and not for any circumscript place for it may be very probably coniectured that the aboad of the diuels is in the ayre and not in any other circumscript place as yet but after the great iudgement they shall goe to their owne place euen that depth or gulfe mentioned Luke 8. vers 3. which they doe quake and tremble to thinke off as appeareth in the Gospell Father What is the estate and condition of diuels in the meane time Child In the meane time they are in chaines of darknesse as Saint Peter saith that is in a most miserable condition of life full of terrible horrour euen as grieuous malefactours hauing receiued the sentence of death are yet for a time retained in a stinking prison vntill they bée drawen out to their full and last execution for S. Iude saith expresly that they are reserued in euerlasting chaines vnder darkenesse vnto the iudgement of the great day Father Hauing thus farre spoken of God and of the Angels and their fall Let vs now proceed to speake of man and first of all tell me In what estate man was first created Child In a most pure and excellent estate frée from sinne and corruption being made after the very image of God in respect of knowledge wisedome and righteousnesse hauing fréedome of will and Lordship ouer the earth Father How then fell he from this so glorious and perfect estate Child The woman being beguiled by the suggestion of Sathan in the likenesse of a serpent did entise Adam her husband to eate of the forbidden fruit in the middest of the garden and so presently both lost all their former excellency and also wrapped themselues and their whole posterity in perpetuall thraldome and misery and thus sinne first entred into the world and together with sin came death and the curse of God vpon all mankind Father Now since the fall of Adam wherein doth our misery especially consist Child In this that wée are wholly corrupted
with Christ for they doe continually groane vnder this corruption as vnder a most heauie burthen and fetch many a sorrowfull sigh to thinke of it and are euer complaining of it as of a most deadly enemie of theirs And all this wée many clearely sée as it were in a glasse in the example of the Apostle Paule himselfe that most rare and excellent Seruant of God Who taketh vp most pittifull and lamentable complaintes of this poysoned and infected nature I know sayth hée That in mee that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing I allow not that which I doe for what I would that I doe not but what I hate that I doe I doe not the good thing which I would but the euill which I would not that doe I. Now if I doe that I would not it is no more I that doe it but the sinne that dwelleth in mee I finde then that when I would doe good I am thus yoaked that euill is present with mee For I delite in the Law of God concerning the inner man but I see an other Law in my members rebelling against the law of my mind and leading me captiue vnto the Law of sinne which is in my members And in the end hée breaketh out into an out-cry saying O wretched man that I am who shall deliuer me from the body of this death Father Doe not Vngodly and vnregenerate men likewise mourne vnder this corruption and complaine much of it Child No you shall seldome or neuer heare them cōplaine of it or mourne vnder it For they walke after the foolish and fulfill the lusts thereof with all delight and gréedines being wholly caried after the swing and sway of their owne corrupt affections and desires Father What is the cause hereof Child Because they are forsaken of God and giuen ouer to a great blindnesse of heart and hardnesse of affections so that though their miserie is excéeding great yet they haue little sight and lesse féeling of it Father Doe you not thinke that a man in the state of nature cannot so feele his misery Child Sure it is that a méere naturall man can haue no true sight or liuely féeling of his misery or any sounde desire to come out of it but doth greatly please himselfe in it and is loath to come out of it for the Apostle sayth plainely that the naturall man perceiueth not the thinges of the spirit of God For they are foolishnesse vnto him neither can hée know them béecause they are spiritually discerned Father But may not a naturall and vnregenerate man haue the knowledge of God and the vnderstanding of his wil and so consequently a sight of heauenly things Child Yes a naturall man hath a kinde of knowledge and vnderstanding of God and of his will but it is onely a confused and braine knowledge and a literall vnderstanding of the Scriptures for hée cannot possibly haue the liuely and sauing knowledge which is ioyned with quickening grace Nor that sound vnderstanding and sight which doth lineally descend from the spirit of sanctification Father May not man in the state of nature haue feeling also of God and of heauenly things Child The Scriptures doe teach that a reprobate may haue a kinde both of sight and féeling of heauenly things for hée may bée lightened and tast of the heauenly gift and of the powers of the world to come and also tast of the good woord of God and bée made partaker of the holy Ghost But his sight and tast and féeling can neuer bée sound and good before regeneration So then all the cunning is to know whether the worke of grace in a mans soule bée sounde and currant or no for vnregenerate men are much deceiued with a false light for they doe blindly Imagine y t because they haue some kind of sight and féeling of heauenly things therefore they haue all and the same that is in euery elect Father What difference then doe you make betwixt the knowledge of the elect the reprobate Child The knowledge of the reprobate doth puffe vp The knowledge of the elect doth humble The knowledge of the reprobate is generall and confused The knowledge of the elect is particular and certaine The knowledge of the reprobates is onely literall and historicall The knowledge of the elect is spirituall and experimentall The knowledge of the reprobate is speculatiue The knowledge of the elect is practiue that is ioyned with obedience For howsoeuer a naturall and vnregenerate man may know much yet hath hée not nor can haue any power to doe I meane chearfully and aright till his heart bée enlarged by Christ his will renued by grace The knowledge of the reprobate is like y e knowledge which a mathematicall geographer hath of the earth and all places in it which is but a generall notion and speculatiue comprehension of them But the knowledge of the elect is like the knowledge of a traueller which can speake of experience and féeling and hath béene there and séene and knowen the particulars Father Now tell me further what difference you make betwixt the feeling of the elect and the reprobate Child The reprobate hath a kinde of naturall féeling of sinne but it is without the true hatred of it for in his heart hée loueth it The elect doth so féele his sin that hée hateth it taketh councell against it and praieth against it The féeling of the reprobate is from naturall faculties for hée is not as a blocke without all sence The féeling of the elect is from the spirit of sanctification The féeling of the reprobate ariseth from naturall feare diffidence for man naturally féeleth and feareth dangers so the reprobates féele and feare the wrath of God the accusations of their consciences the punishment of sinne hell fire c. But haue no true féeling of Gods loue towardes them But the elect haue a liuely féeling of Gods loue towards them The reprobate hath sometimes at starts a féeling of spiritual ioy but it vanisheth incontinently The féeling of the ioy of the spirit in the elect is more lasting and often Father As you haue told me much of mans misery in nature so tell mee yet one poynt further whether a man in the state of nature can do any thing that pleaseth God Child A méere naturall man cannot please GOD in any thing he doth but euen his best actions are turned into sinne For the Apostle sayth They which are in the flesh cannot please GOD. And againe hée saith To them that are defiled and vnbéeléeuing is nothing pure but euer their mindes and consciences are defiled Father How long doth a man continue in this wofull and cursed estate wherein he was borne Child Till hée bée regenerate and borne againe For our Lord Jesus affirmeth that except a man bée borne againe hée cannot sée the kingdome of God Father By what meanes doth a man come to be regenerate and borne againe Child By the outward
to say in the manner of vtterance and measure of reuelation for otherwise in substance Euangelicall couenant hath alwayes béene one and the same first made to Adam in Paradise afterward renued to Abraham his séed shadowed in the law spoken of by the prophets and preached vnto vs euer since Christ was actually exhibited to the world Father You seeme to say this that the couenant of Grace with the old people of the Iewes and vs differeth only in maner not in matter that is that Christ and all the promises of remission of sinnes and eternall life in him were dimly reuealed and darkely vttered vnto them in Types and shadowes but vnto vs the same are more fully clearely opened and reuealed Child I meane so indéed Father Expresse your meaning more at large in this point Child When a new impression of any booke commeth forth in a fayre letter good print distinctly versed well bound and guilt which béefore was ill printed in a darke letter ill bound couered wée say it is a new booke yet in substance it is the same with the former the difference is onely in the forme and outward qualitie Likewise when a Paynter draweth a darke draught of any kinde of Picture in obscure lineaments and colours and afterward flourisheth it ouer with more liuely fresh and orient colours héere is the same thing in substance but altered in qualitie And thus it fareth béetwixt the Couenant of Grace made with our forefathers and vs. For the oulde people which liued vnder the minoritie and wardshippe of the Church had a darke draught of Christ and all the promises made in him But wée haue them more clearely and liuely set out And as the Apostle sayth We are not as Moises which put a vaile vpon his face c. But wee all beehold as a mirrour the glory of the Lord with open face c. And againe in diuers manners God spake in the olde time to our forefathers by the Prophets but in these last dayes hée hath spoken vnto vs by his Sonne most cléerely and manifestly Father You told me euen now that no man is able to keepe the Law Now therefore tell me what daunger lyeth vppon it If a man breake the Law of God Child Eternall death and damnation for it is written The wages of sinne is death Father Is eternall death and damnation due to vs for euery little sin though it were but in thought onely Child Yea for the least sinne of thought If God should deale with vs according vnto Justice for it is written Whosoeuer keepeth the whole Law and yet faileth in one point is guiltie of all Father How then shall we escape this eternall death and damnation Child Onely by Christ For hée hath redéemed vs from the curse of the Law being made a curse for vs. For it is written Cursed is euery one that hangeth on a tree And againe Hee that knew no sinne was made sinne for vs that wee might bee made the righteousnesse of God in him Father How and by what meanes hath Christ redeemed vs from the curse of the Law and death eternall Child By the shedding of his blood vpon the Crosse for the Scripture sayth That hee hath made vp a generall peace betwixt his father and all the elect by the blood of his Crosse And againe Wee haue redemption throught his bloud that is the forgiuenesse of sinne And in another place Wee which vvere farre off are made neere by the bloold of Christ And the author to the Hebrews saith That neither by the blood of Goates and calues but by his owne blood entred he once into the holy place and obtained eternall redemption for vs. Father Haue we no further good by Christ but onely a freedome from death and a deliuerance from hell damnation Child Yes For through him we are reconciled to God the Father as the Scripture teacheth and through him we haue remission of sinnes eternall life and all good things for the Apostle sayth He is made of God for vs wisdome righteousnes sanctification and redemption Father Is there no other way nor meanes whereby we may obtaine remission of sin eternall life but onely by Christ Child No For the holy Ghost saith There is no saluation in any other for among men there is giuen no other name vnder heauen whereby we must be saued And againe To him doe all the Prophets witnesse that through his name onely all that beleeue shall receiue remission of sinne Father What say you then to Popes pardons Indulgences Masses Trentales Dirges and such like May not a man by them obtaine remission of sinnes and eternall life Child Nothing lesse For the Scripture knoweth no such meanes or wayes to eternall life but doth vitterly reiect them as most abhominable deuises of them Father But may not a man be saued by his good works Child No For the Apostle sayth By grace are yee saued through faith and that not of your selues nor of workes least any man should boast himselfe And sure it is that euen in our best actions there is some remedy of corruption as wée doe them for the which God in iustice may condemne both vs and our actions for the Scripture sayth That our very righteousnesse is as a defiled cloath or filthy cloute If then our best workes bée stained how can wée bée saued by works Father If wee cannot bee saued by works then wherefore should wee doe them as good play for naught as worke for naught Child Not so for although wée can not bée iustified in the sight of God by our good works yet they haue their necessary vse and serue to great purpose As first to glorifie God Secondly to publish our Faith to the world Thirdly to bring peace and comfort to our consciences in the discharge of our duties And lastly to winne others Father What doe you call a good worke Child No worke of man is sound and currant indéede except the same bée commaunded of God to bée done and that of our part it bée done in such sort and manner as hée requireth that is from a carefull heart and sanctified mind otherwise whatsoeuer wée do in the worship and seruice of God it is abhominable Father If a man cannot bee saued by his works but by Christ only then tel me whether al men shal be saued by Christ or no Child None shalbée saued by Christ but onely such as beléeue in Christ that is such as doe particularly apply Christ and all the promises made in him to themselues beeing fully perswaded in themselues that Christ with all his merits is theirs Father Are you fully perswaded that Christ with all his righteousnes is yours that you haue speciall interest in him and that he dyed for you particularly and by name Child I am fully so perswaded indéede without all doubting Father How know you certainly that you haue
speciall interest in Christ that you shall be saued by his merits sith thousands shal perish which will say as much as you and in words make great brags that they hope to bee saued as well as the best of them all Child I doe certainely know it by the worke of grace in my soule I doe certainely know it because I féele it for this I am sure of that I féele that wrought in me from aboue which cannot bée in any but those whom God will saue Father What is that I pray you Child A liuely féeling of his grace a féeling of his loue a féeling of his mercie assured faith in the promises a féeling of the spirit of adoption a chaunge of my heart an alteration of my wayes an vnfained hatred of all euill and a syncere loue of all righteousnesse Father May not a wicked man haue all this Child No He may haue certaine shewes and shadowes of these things but in déed and in truth these things can be in none but the very elect Father Cannot the wicked and vnregenerate man be fully perswaded that Christ is his and that he shall be saued Child He cannot whatsoeuer he saith because hée cannot possibly receiue the spirit of adoption whereby this inward assurance full perswasion is wrought whereby also the merits of Christs death are sealed to euery particular conscience Father What other reason haue you Child Because none of the wicked haue that liuely and iustifying faith which maketh Christ and all his righteousnesse ours Father But there is none so wicked but he will say he hath faith and for the most part they thinke that they haue all the faith in the world and that there is no want in their faith Child Alas poore soules In these matters of GOD they say and thinke they know not what For Faith is a mystrrie and all heauenly things are such mysteries as they men of this world cannot vnderstand they are hid from their eyes Father Tell me then what is the heauenly and iustifying faith Child A full perwasion and inward assurance of Gods particular loue to vs in Christ with a sence and féeling of the same in our hearts Father May not this be in the wicked Child No It is not possible Father How farre then may a wicked man goe in faith Child A wicked man may goe thus farre to haue knowledge of the truth An assent to the same a ioy both in hearing and speaking of it and an outward profession of it for a time but the inward assurance of Gods loue and sensible féeling of it in their heart they can neuer haue which is indéede the very life of faith Father Is not this knowledge and assent sufficient If a man know the word of God and consent to the truth of it in his heart is not this faith Child No For the diuels may goe so farre and further too For the diuels doe beléeue the Scriptures to bée true They beléeue all the articles of the faith They haue excéeding great knowledge of the will of God and of the whole Scripture they beléeue that there is a God and that there is a reward for the righteous and torments to come for the wicked and as Saint Iames saith The diuels beleeue tremble and yet I hope no man will say the diuels shall bée saued Therefore wée must séeke a difference béetwixt their faith and ours or esse our faith is no better then the faith of diuels Father If this be true then Lord haue mercy vpon vs For out of doubt thousands are deceiued in this matter of faith and most men content themselues with a shadow of it stead of faith indeed And assuredly the faith of many carnal protestants is little better then the faith of diuels Child It is true the more is the pittie for the faith that now a dayes goeth for currant in the world is but an idle dead barren fruitlesse and fantasticall faith or rather an opinion conceit and mathematicall Imagination of the braine Father Hovv many parts be there of the true and liuely faith Child Two Father Which be they Child Iustification and sanctification Father What is iustification Child A setting of vs frée from the guilt of sinne by the blood of Christ Father What is sanctification Child A clensing renuing of our nature by the spirit of God Father How many parts be there of iustification Child Two That is to say remission of sinne and the imputation of Christs righteousnesse for when our sinnes are forgiuen Christs righteousnesse imputed to vs then are wée truly and indéed iustified Father How many parts be there of sanctification Child Two Father Which be they Child Mortification and viuification Father What is mortification Child A dying to sinne Father What is viuification Child A liuing to righteousnesse Father How many parts be there of viuification Child Two Father Which be they Child Regeneration and repentance Father What is regeneration Child A repairing of our nature which was corrupted by Adams fall Father What is repentance Child An inward change of the soule and a conuersion of the whole man vnto God Father Cannot a wicked man haue this repentance which is in the change of the soule and the conuersion of the whole man vnto God Child This is neuer wrought in y e wicked Father How far then may the vvicked goe in repentance Child The wicked may goe thus farre to haue a sight of sin and a féeling of it a confession of it a sorrow for it A great pensiuenesse and terrour after some horrible fact for feare of shame Law punishment hell fire c. as had Iudas Cain Saule Esau Ahab and such like They may haue also a resolution for the time to sinne noe more But that part of repentance which hath the promise of mercy annexed vnto it that is the conuersation of the whole man vnto God they can neuer haue Father How many parts be there of repentance Child Thrée Father Which be they Child Inward sorrow confession new obedience Father Whether is faith before repentance or repentance before faith Child If we respect time then they goe together for so soone as there is fire ther is heat so soone as a man hath faith so soone hée repents but in the order of nature faith goeth before repentāce before all other graces because it is the roote of all things that please God But if we respect the outward manifestation then repentance goeth béefore faith and regeneration and all other vertues Because it first of all appeareth outwardly For Faith is like the sappe of a trée that lyeth hid within the barke But repentance is like the bud that spéedily sheweth it selfe before either blossome fruit or leafe appeare Faith is like the fire and repentance like the smooke for though fire bée béefore smooke yet the smooke sheweth it selfe before the fire Father You defined repentance to bee an inward change of the soule how vnderstand you