is one part but still he is unhappy whilst he speaks of lying for how can Calvin conclude me to be a lyar with those words which he never spake And what he cites out of Calvin is not to be found in him but in Calvin upon that place I mean on Eph. 2.20 these words are to be found Quâ—â— fundamentum hic pro doctrina sumatur minime dubium est that the word foundation in this place is to be taken for doctrine that is for the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets is not at all to be doubted of for which he gives his reason before mentioned and then concludes Itaque docet Paulus fidem ecclesiae in hac doctrina debere esse fundatam therefore Paul teacheth that the faith of the Church ought to be founded in this doctrine But suppose some other interpreter speak the words that he puts upon Calvin the matter is soon answered for Christ is the foundation witnessed the word of the Prophets and Apostles is the foundation witnessing or the fundamental doctrine giving testimony of Jesus Christ W.T. There 's a double foundation 1 personal or real that 's Christ 2. doctrinal or declarative that 's the Scripture T. S. If the Scripture be no real foundation it is then imaginary Pag. 22 for that which is not real is imaginary W. T. A. His silence had been better then his sophistry Is the story of a thing the whole story of Scripture nothing but an imagination because it is not the thing acted Had he had as much mind to understand as he had to cavil he might have seen that I did not oppose real to imaginary but to declarative and that my plain meaning was that Christ is the person or the thing whereupon we build our selves but the word whereupon we build our faith that we may build our selves upon that thing or person is the doctrine and declaration of Scripture T. S. You go on to distinguish between Gods testimony and Gods truth Pag. 23 Is not his testimony his truth W. T. A. Its true I make a distinction but he falsly cries out that I creat an opposition and then runs on to poure out his pulpit-hatred he cares not how I onely ask him this question When he receives letters from France or Spain is there no difference between the things themselves whereof the letters speak and the letters and lines that testifie of those things T. S. But the ground of faith you say may be corrupted nay pag. 22 you say further that faith may be lost Is faith bottomed on a corruptible foundation W. T. I did not say the ground of faith may be corrupted but only that if the Scriptures be corrupted they must be purged And yet if any man say that the Scriptures which are the ground of faith may be corrupted it doth not follow thence that the faith of the Elect is bottomed on a corruptible foundation for their faith is not bottomed on Scripture as corrupted but as pure and clear and as it is that word of God that endureâ— for ever having no dross in it though men seek to mix their dross with it which the Elect of God that build upon it do both detect and detest It s worse then this that he reports me to say that faith may bâ— lost when the words of my letter were that if the Scriptures could be 〈◊〉 â—here would quickâ—y be found a loss in faith And hath not he wit to distinguish between a loss in it and a loss of it between less and nothing T. S. You confess that the Scriptures were not the ground of Abeâ—â— Enockâ— and Noahs faith and if they were not the ground of their faith then neither were they the ground of any of the Saints faith since them for that they and all the Saints since have the same foundation and are built on the same Rock which can never be removed nor corrupted as you do most absurdly assert VV. T. A. The name Scripture denotes and contains two thâ—ngs in it 1. The revealed will of God 2. The written will of God The revealed will of God is the foundation of Saints faith from the beginning to the end of the world but in a different manner viz. as delivered by God without writing in the first times but in writing since and being now delivered in writing that written word is now the ground of Saints faith 2. Unto this argument a I answer That all Saints former and later have the same foundation in regard of the substance but not in regard of the manner of communication The ground of the faith of the first Saints was the revealed will of God unwritten since the same will of God revealed and setting forth the object of our faith in and by writing that is the doctrine contained in the old and new Testament about which two things are considerable 1. something inward and that is the immutable truth of God 2. Something outward and that is in the writing by which it is exactly presented unto the Churches view when we say the Scripture is the ground of faith we put both together and say it is the word ofâ—God as writter and communicating unto us in that way the doctrine of our salvation 3. I never asserted nor ever thought to say that the Rock whereon our persons are built can be removed yet it may be granted that the Scripture on which our faith is founded may be corrupted though our faith be not grounded on corrupted Scripture T. S. Did ever any of those called Quakers say that the Word of God was not the ground of Abrahams faith and still is of the faith of all Saints VV. T. In that book which was the occasion of writing my first letter called The fiery darts of the dâ—vil quenched * there are these words a This again I affirm as before I did that the Scriptures is not the Saints Rule but the Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures we walk as Abel Noah c. by the immediate Spirit of God which was before those Scriptures were wâ—itten Here I observe two things 1. That this Quaker saith the Scripture is not the Saints Rule which is all one as to say the Word of God is not the Saints Rule for the Scriptures are the Word of God Christ calls the written Law of Moses the Word of God which the Pharises made of none effect by their traditions Maâ—k 7.10 13. The Scripture speaks Rom. 4.3 and whose words doth it speak but the words of God Rom. 10.17 2. I observe here that though he do not say The word of God is not the Saints Rule but onely that the Scripture is not yet the same reason why he holds the Scripture not to be the Saints Rule to wit because we must walk by the immediate spirit of God excludes the word of God also for the Word and Spirit are different things Isa. 59.21 T. S. Pag. 24 Because Christ saith to the
A VINDICATION OF Scripture and Ministery In a Rejoynder to a Reply not long since published by Thomas Speed formerly but unsutably Merchant in the City of Bristol and Preacher lately but more sadly Merchant and QVAKER Wherein sundry Scriptures are explained divers Questions relating to these times discussed and the truth asserted against the exceptions of PAPISTS and QVAKERS Whereunto is adjoyned a Postscript reflecting upon and returning Answer to divers passages in Thomas Speed his last Pamphlet By William Thomas Minister of the Gospel at Ubley Isa. 8.20 To the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them Ephes. 4.11 12 13. He gave some Pastours and Teachers For the perfecting of the Saints the work of the Ministery for the edifying of the body of Christ Till we all come in the unity of the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God unto a perfect man unto the measure of the age of the fulness of Christ Ignat. Epist. ad Ephes. Si autem ii qui humanas domos corrumpunt morte plectuntur quanto graviores poenas dabunt qui moliuntur Christi doctrinam adulterare pro quâ crucem mortem sustinuit Dominus Jesus unicus Dei Filius London Printed for Edward Thomas and are to be sold at his house in Green-Arbour 1657. The several Heads of this Rejoynder 1. QUakers Quaking detected and refuted 2. That the Scriptures are the Saints rule is proved 3. Ministers taking of Tithes justified 4. A general Scripture command for Infant-Baptism asserted 5. That the Scriptures are the ground of faith is more largely maintained 6. That life is to be had in Scripture is manifested 7. A brief account of the word Sacrament 8. The Ministery the Calling of Ministers together with Imposition of Hands in Ordination Vindicated and more fully spoken to 9. Calling to the Civil Magistrate for punishing the open enemies of Religion declared from Scripture 10. The point of Conscience-liberty discussed 11. Something concerning inward and common light observed and opened 12. Our Justification is declared to be by a righteousness without us not by a righteousness within us The Epistle to the Christian and considerate READER READER COncerning the rise of the present business between my self and Thomas Speed be pleased to receive this relation About two years ago or more I did upon importunity give way to Mr. Speeds Preaching in my charge I confess it was not without reluctancy because he had been so long a publick Teacher and yet no Minister that is not called to that office in the way of Christ yet I knew not but that he might in a further time be so called he being in such a tendency to that Office but while there were hopes of him that he might do some good service in the Church of Christ there comes newes that he had joyned himself to those whom they call Quakers The report at first was very strange but when it was found to be so indeed it troubled me much that I should be induced to admit one to Preach in my place so poorly principled and of so inconstant a spirit as to close with such a company and be wafted over suddenly to so senseless a Sect. Hereupon after many debates with my self I resolved to write unto him about the Quakers way for I had not reason then to think him to be a Scorner but rather hoped that some good might have been done upon him and that he was not so far gone and hampered in Satans snare but that possibly he might by a milde admonition be recovered out of it at least I did not know but that there might be so much ingenuity left as to return unto a calm and friendly Letter a fair and civill Answer But how far he was from any such humane frame his rough and Quaker-like Reply to my first Letter did more then sufficiently manifest Yet because in that his first return amongst a great deal of rudeness there was something that looked like reason I wrote my second Letter in way of Answer to his first but that high spirit of his that could not receive an admonition in my first Letter could not bear an answer in my second but must needs tumultuate in Print and by this means our Contestation is come into publick view In which regard it might have been satisfactory to have published the Letters that passed between us but being that they were so large as that it would be tedious to print and peruse them and his Reply together with this Rejoynder will present in good part the substance of them therefore I have resolved to publish no more but only my first brief Letter whereby it will appear I think how little cause this angry Antagonist had to fall into so hot a combate For this was the Letter Mr. Speed THough my acquaintance with you hath not been much yet since by providence there hath been some and that also a Pulpit-acquaintance by your Preaching not long since in my place and charge I presume you will not take it ill if I shall a little more then ordinarily impart my self unto you upon the report that I have heard from divers who know you and are like to know your way of your closing though how far I know not with those that own the name of Quakers I have read but one of their Books viz. The fierie Darts of the Devill quenched but therein I find enough to make it strange that any that hath known and owned much more that hath held forth Gods Scripture way should have any correspondence with them in theirs 1. For the Scriptures though they do not professedly reject them yet really they do whilest they hold and witness 1. That they are not the rule of Saints contrary to these Scriptures Gal. 6.16 Jam. 2.8 Deut. 5.32 33. 2 Pet. 1.19 2. That they are not the ground of faith contrary to Joh. 20.31 Rom. 16.26 Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God Rom. 10.17 So that the word of God was ever the ground of Faith even before it was written as now it is for though it were not written yet it was revealed And now it is written Christ directs us to look for life in the Scriptures because they testifie of him to wit as the person on whom our faith should rest for salvation Joh. 5.39 -46 47. 2. For the Sacrament of the Lords Supper They acknowledge a command of Christ for it to stand for a time and no more when Christ tels us his death is to be shewed therein till he come 1 Cor. 11.26 3. For the Ministery As they deny there was any true Church since the Apostles dayes which is as though they should say Christ hath had no body upon earth since the Apostles dayes for the Church is his body So they deny any Ministers unlesse called as the Apostles were when we finde Titus ordaining Elders in an ordinary
but they do procure our happiness neither will any wise man rest upon them for the obtaining of salvation Gal. 5.2 Isa. 64.6 3. It's wonder he should own such a Religion as saith nothing of faith when that is a chief lesson that the Gospel teacheth for a sinners salvation Mark 16.16 1 Tim. 1.16 This is an old Popish trick to make much of the doctrine of St. James in a mistaken interpretation and to lay aside the doctrine of St. Paul in its true sense Rom. 3.28 when they should join both together and ascribe to â—aith the justification of men as sinners and to works their justification as believers Jam. 2.22 4. Whereas he saith Christ is the â—ight of the world which I own as the fouâ—dation of my Religion who is within me The question is whether he build his Religion and salvation on that Christ who is within or on Christ as he is within that is on that of Christ which is within I grant that Christ is in us except we be Reprobates but its true also that Christ doth not save us as within us nor by any thing he hath put within us as if that were the cause of our salvation or Christ by that for how can that save us which is imperfect which needs a Saviour It is therefore Christ without us that saves us that by what he wrought without us that is by dying for our sins and rising again for our justification nor doth grace reign to eternal life any other way then through Christs righteousness made ours by faith Rom. 5.21 which clearly appears in converted Paul within whom Christ was abundantly he feared God and wrought righteousness and yet he desires to be found not having his own righteousness which is of the Law but that which is through the fâ—iâ—h of Christ the righteousness which is of God by faith Phil. 3.9 T. S. That you may know my Religion will bear the trial I do hereby declare my self free and willing Pag. 28 upon seasonable notice to appear in the midst of your Congregation or in the presence of the whole County to have my principles tried by the Scriptures of truth VV. T. A. 1. It seems he thinks now the Scripture is the touchstone or Rule to try things by whether they be of God or no 2. He hath been in my Congregation once already which considering his sad Apostacy since I am sorry for and shall not have to do with him there again nor by way of dispute anywhere else I have not been used to tumultuous things nor is it like his conference will be better then his writing and then let others judge whether it be fit a Congregation especially a whole County should be called together to hear it I began with him in writing and shall walk with him no other way nor long in that but shall leave him as a man whom no conference or writing is like to do good upon unless the Lord be pleased to change his heart which I should be most glad to see T. S. Can â—ny man be said to own the Spirit that breathed fâ—rth the Scripture and living the life of Christ and yet disown the Scripture which is the testimony of that Spirit and that Christ a W. T. A. I grant that they that truly own the spirit breathed forth the Scripture and live the life of Christ will also own the Scripture yet are these two distinct things though they meet together and agree in the same person But I answer further that a man may own the Sgirit in profession that breathed forth the Scripture and yet not own the Scripture as we see in Zâ—dekia that owned and arrogated the Spirit of the Lord and yet disowned and detested what Michaias spake by that Spirit 1 King 22.24 28. 2 Thes. 2.2 so quakers talk much of the Spirit and yet instead of owning the Scripture their design is found to be to depend upon an unwritten word immediatly dictated to them within themselves proceeding from him who is as they say the word from the beginning and is the life and is manifested as they give out within them as to the Apostles â—am. Eatonâ— answer to the quakers 19. queries pag. 20. Yea they do little less then deride the Text of Scripture calling Ministers in contempt preachers of the letter when as they preach those spiritual truths that be contained in it yea one of them makes this out-crie All people cease from their outside lights and return to the light of Christ in you and this light is not a chapter without you in a book c. Perfect Pharisee p. 20. out of James Nayler in a book called The glory of the Lord shining out of the north Of the word Sacrament T S. Pag. 30 SAcrament principally signifieth the Oath by which Souldiers of old bound themselves to be faithful to their Captains and is there such affinity between this word and the word sign seal Antitype and example W. T. A. Its true that the word Sacrament among profane Authors signifies a military oath which because it was accounted of all things the most sacred yea and went under the name also of a most holy mystery a hence use was made of the same word in the Churches of God to set forth the holy things instituted therein of God wherein there was a secret and mysterious signification and in special the two New Testament Seals of the Covenant of grace I deny not therefore that notion and acception of the word Sacrament which he and many others mention it being very fit to set forth these Seals as they represent the covenant of grace in which regard as on the 〈◊〉 side they assure us of the benefit of the Covenant on Gods part so on the other side we are therein consecrated unto God and bound as Souldiers were that took that military Oath to perform the Covenant on our part But this being granted it no way crosseth the ordinary description of a Sacrament which is that it is an outward and visible signe of a spiriâ—ual and invisibâ—e Grace Now to set two things one against another which being rightly taken do very well stand together is a poor quarrel And so is the whole contestation about the word Sacrament it being not made any matter or necessary appurtenance of our faith but used only as a convenient and received expression of that thing which is found in Scripture Whereas he questioneth further what affinity there is between the words sigâ—e and seaâ— and the word Sacrament as it relates to the aforesaid Military Oath I answer the words signe and seal expresse what we have from God to wit the benefits of the Covenant of Grace represented and sealed in that Ordinance The word Sacramen in that sense wherein he takes it shews what God is to have from us As for his cavilling about my forbearing to answer his quâ—râ—es I shall only say this Pag. 32 That though questions may
to examine what we say and to see whether God in his Word do not say it also and according as it agreeth or disagreeth with that Word so to receive it or lay it aside But withal two things may be considered 1. That it is no untruth nor immodesty to say That the Ministers of this Nation be as infallible as other Teachers are so that the matter will be brought to this issue Either there must be no Teaching and that 's against Scripture which declareth Teaching to be a perpetual Ordinance Matt. 28.19 20. and as it were the Churches Inheritance d Isa. 59.21 or else there mast be found in these dayes infallible Teachers and that 's against experience none pretending to infallibility but the Pope or they that are like him or else we must be taught and that 's the truth by men that are fallible But secondly Notwithstanding this we affirmâ— that what we collect by sound natural and necessary inference from Scripture that 's infallible though we be not Is it not an infallible truth that there be three Heavens though we do not read in Scripture that I remember of a first and second Heaven I mean in expresse words if there be a third Heaven which the Scripture expresly assureth us of 2 Cor. 12.2 then there must needs be two more though the Scripture name them not T.S. Take six of you that esteem your selves the most able Doctors and a portion of Scripture being given you to interpret Pag. 7 shut your selves up in six several Rooms and after some time give your interpretations thereof to one that shall receive them from each of you apart from the rest and perhaps not two of the six shall agree in the same interpretation and would you have poor people adventure their souls on the truth of such mens deductions from Scripture who dwell in such vast confusion and difference in their deductions W. T. Here 's the old Popish Argument against the Protestant Religion whereby the Franciscan Fryers may observe them to be pretty well prepared for the Pope for Papists declare we must needs want unity because we do not acknowledge one chief Pastor to wit the Successor of Saint Peter and wholly submit to his definitive Sentence In this declaration of the want of Unity the quakers join with them how hopeful therefore is the invitation Come from those dissenting men that are call'd Ministers unto us for we have one infallible proponent of Truth the Successor of Peter in whom we are all perfectly united But how well the Papists agree hath been shewed to their shame And suppose they did agree in that which is evil they are thereby in greater danger as they may understand from one that was a Pope himself but of a far better minde then his Successors who tells us and the Quakers if they please may hear it that e As it is very hurtful if Unity be wanting to the good so it is pernicious if it be not wanting to the evil who are so much the more incorrigible by how much they are the more unanimous Greg. Moral in Job Lib. 33 c. 33 But to come neerer to the matter 1. I shall relate what one hath answered them already which is this They speak of Unity but it is young dayes as yet they are but learners and imitators yet they branch themselves to walking singing naked and Virgiâ—-quakers f 2. I answer more particularly and it is that which is plain to those that be not partial that though the faithful Ministers of this Nation be not onely shut up in several Rooms that is confined to several stations but also live many of them in parts far distant one from another yet people hear the same things from them all in their several places I mean as to the substance and saving Truth of Religion If in some lesse things we differ God having not given to all the like light Phi. 3.16 or if the distemper and loosnesse of the times have more then ordinarily diversified us yet there is enough of that wherein we generally agree to guide the feet of the Christians into the way of Peace 3. It is not yet resolv'd that the Quakers do agree in all things among themselves for consider how high and how horrid their expressions are One said that he was equal with God Another that himself was as holy just and good as God Another she-quaker in hold at Reding being convented and asked her Name answered I am that I am and stood to it These and many more the like you finde with the proofs in the Sober Answer of the Ministers of Redding to the Epistle prefixed to this Book to which I adde what is published in answer to Mr. Nyâ— Mr. Goodwiâ— c. which is this That Christ is God and man in one person is a lye Another of the quakers said that it is alike for to take a Sentence out of their Letters that is the quakers Letters and to preach from it as to take a Sentence out of Pauls Epistles See this in the Faithful Discovery of a Treacherous Designe pag. 33. Now if this Writer and his fellow-quakers be all of this minde and close with those other of their way in the fore-recited things then there 's a good company of them if they do not then they also want Unity The Truth is It 's incident to all to agree in Error the Devil and corrupt nature furthering that conjunction it is of the Grace of God that they that are right hold together Yet that Protestant Ministers and Churches do so let the Harmony of Confessions witnesse And that the publike Teachers in this and the Neighbor-Nation do agree let the late Confession of Faith framed and concurr'd upon by the Assembly of Divines testifie T.S. Next you urge that Scripture Deut. 5.32 33. viz. You shall not turn aside to the right hand or the left c. Pag. 7 Could Moses intend this in relation to Scripture the greatest part of which was not then written W.T. Answ. Though the greatest part of Scripture was written after yet the ten Commandments in reference whereunto Moses spake those words were written then Deut. 5 22. Exod. 24.3 4. Now by the same reason whereby the Scripture written then was a Rule then by the same the Scripture written since is a Rule since to wit because it is the word of God after which our steps ought to be ordered Psal. 119.133 But the Reader may observe that he leaves out the Explication of that Scripture Deut. 5.31 32 33. whereby I shewed it to be a Rule to wit because Ye shall not turn to the right hand or the left is equivalent to this Make your Rule exactly to walk by and then asks Doth this Scripture say that the Scripture is the Saints Rule To which I answer That it saith so to his reason and conscience if he have any if not in Sillables yet in Sense T.S. Because the word Rule
is expressed Gal. 6.16 Is therefore the Scripture the Saints Rule Pag. 7 W.T. Answ. Here he puts down a word or two of what I spake leaving out the rest and then makes as if I had spoken that which I never spake for I never said that because the word Rule was there therefore the Scripture is the Saints Rule but the force of the Argument lies in this That the very word Rule is expressed there for the end and purpose to declare hold forth the Scripture to be a Rule For here 's an happy end Peace and Mercy a walk prescribed for the attaining of that end a Rule revealed to guide that walk to wit that Word of God which is written in the two verses immediately going before viz. v. 14 15. wherein all men are directed to glory in the Cross of Christ v. 14. and that so as to become new Creatures v. 14 15. that is they are guided to faith accompanied with holinesse as the sure way to happinesse For the further opening and confirming whereof let it be observ'd that the Apostle doth in the close of this Epistle knit up the Doctrine of the whole Epistle yea of the whole Gospel yea of the whole Bible whereupon this is justly extended by Divines to the whole Canonical Scripture and the Doctrine is this That we are to look for Justification and life not in the works of the Law either without Christ or with Christ but in Christ crucified alone apprehended by Faith and yet that faith is not alone but appears in the novation of our nature within and in working by love without in the keeping of all Gods Commandments This is apparent by v. 14. where Paul professeth his glorying in the Crosse of Christ alone that is his contentful and triumphant confidence in Christ crucified the rather for the blessed effect thereof which he found in himself to wit The worlds being crucified to him as he was to the world that is whereby he was made a new creature which is a thing so considerable that if we reckon of things as Christ doth all outward priviledges and preheminences are nothing v. 15. Hereupon it follows v. 16. As many as walk according to this Rule that is this Scripture-Doctrine which teacheth men by faith to rest on and rejoyce in Jesus Christ crucified and crucifying that is so working on and in them by their believing in him as that they are crucified with him and become new creatures Peace shall be upon them Rom. 5.1 and mercy 1 Tim. 1.14 whether they be Jews or Gentiles when otherwise nothing will avail either the one or the other for peace and life Now if any shall say as this Writer doth who gives forth a meaning himself when he cries out upon other men for doing the like that the Rule is the new Creature meaning thereby the Law and Direction of the Spirit in the heart of a person regenerated this falls in with the former for the Spirit suggesteth no other Rule to the heart then that which it expresseth in the Word But the Apostle sufficiently decides this matter and interprets himself Ch. 5. v. 5 6. where handling the same Argument viz. Resting on Christ by faith for righteousness and life and bringing in the very same reason that he doth here he doth a little vary the words and instead of the new Creature named here puts Faith working by love So that the Rule is plainly this To look for salvation by Faith in Christ Jesus working by love which is the character of a new creature who first is in Christ by Faith 2 Cor. 5.17 and then that Faith worketh by love and in holinesse because the new creature is Gods workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works Eph. 2.10 W.T. Saints must walk by one Rule or another I ask then what is the Rule if Scripture be not the Rule T.S. I know no new Rule nor own none but the same that Abel Pag. 8 Enoch Noah Abraham Moses David Paul and the rest of the holy men of God walked by And by the same touchstone that those holy men proved the Light they walked by whether it were of God or no the same and no other do I own still W.T. Abel Enoch Noah Abraham had the Word of God for their Rule delivered to them as God pleased in those times Moses David and Paul had the same thing for their Rule that is the Word of God but committed to Writing for the Churches use in their times To that Word new I answer That the Rule is the same still that is the revealed will of God there 's nothing new but the Writing and that 's now old But what 's this to my question which was If the Scripture be not the Rule what is the Rule Hereunto he gives a crafty but no clear Answer he seems to say That 's the Rule which the holy men of God whose Names he puts down walked by I ask him again But what was that Rule which they walked by If he think it to be the Word of God whether revealed without writing as at first or written as afterward why doth he not say so and so yeild that the word written is now our Rule If he think the inward Light which Quakers dream of to be the Rule then I ask him again How shall we trye whether that pretended Light be a Rule to walk by For he 's a fool that beleeves every thing Now this he huddles up and speaks something to no purpose generally and guilefully but nothing determinately All he sayes is this That by the same Touchstâ—ne that those holy men proved the Light they walked by the same and no other do I own a Here I shall not examine whether this Author that is so exact in Grammer in the latter part of his Book speak so good sense as he should do I leave that to the Reader But since he speaks of Holy Mens Touchstone I shall propound unto him the approved Example of the Bereans who proved Pauls Doctrine as Paul was willing they should prove it to wit by searching the Scripture Let him prove his Light by the same Touchstone that these holy and noble persons did and it shall suffice If he say Paul proved not his own Light so I reply 1. That there is a great difference between 〈◊〉 that received his Light immediately from Christ and himself and Quakers who too much manifest that they have not received their Light from him either immediately or mediately 2. It is enough that the Spirit of God commends that way of proving Pauls Light by others that were his hearers for thence it will follow either that that Scripture-search is the way to prove every mans Light that professeth he receiveth it from Christ or else the commendation of the Bereans for doing so is not a sufficient approbation of the wisdom of that course and so we shall come to question the spirit of God speaking to their
to be tolerated but yet till discipline have passed upon them unto Excommunication they are called Brethren But when I say such are Gods people I mean onely that they are his calâ—eâ— people and a corrupt part of the body of the Church they do not yet shew themselves his chosen people for many are called few choseâ— Mat 22.14 and therefore I grant what he saith viz. that continuing such they shall be shut out of the kingdom of God hereafter and are to be shut out of the Church here 2. I adde that though it be far from my purpose to speak any thing in favour of profane people whom our Ministry doth still testifie against yet it behoves him and his company to consider whether such men as are opposers of the truth of God and run themselves out of all right religion be not as guilty by the sentence of Scripture a as they that order not their conversation according to the Rules of Scripture and yet we dare not say they are none of Gods people but wish their conformity to that holy calling and truth of God whereof they are made partakers But let the Reader mark that he that pretends to be a replier to what I set before him doth not so much as mention the intire proof which I brought that Baptism is an Infants due It s the most compendious way to brand that with folly which a man cannot answer with reason I shall therefore my self for the Readers sake transcribe in the close the whole argument as it was in my letter Christ by the Apostle Pâ—ul commands saying Render to all thâ—iâ— dâ—e But Baptism is an Infants due Which I prove thus If the Infant of a believing Parent be as soon as it is born a holy child and hath a right to the Covenant then the initiating seal of the Covenant is due to him also This sequel I prove because he that is an holy child to wit by federal holiness ought to be declared so to be by putting that mark upon him by which Gods holy people are outwardly distinguished from Heathens And he that hath a right to the Covenant should be possessed of his right that is be taken in Gods way into the number of Gods Covenant-people I assume But the Infant of a believing Parent is as soon as it is born an holy child 1 Cor. 7.14 And hath a right to the Covenant for this is the tenour of it To be a God to thee and thy seed after thee Gen. 17.7 therefore the initiating seal of the Covenant which declares him to be one of Gods and solemnly puts him into the number of Gods people is due to him also Upon this ground of the everlasting Covenant besides divers other reasons we administer Baptism to Infants as their due and as our duty by vertue of this general command Render to all their dues It comes now to be examined whether the Scriptures be the ground of faith T.S. EIther it is written that the Scriptures are the ground of faith or it is not if it be written why had you not quoted the particular Scripture in which it is wâ—itten Pag. 19 W. T. A. I told him it was necessarily deduced from Scripture and for that cited divers Texts I therefore demand of him The Scriptures brought by me to prove themselves the ground of faith either do prove it or do not If they do not why doth not he shew wherein they fail but onely make out-cries If they do why doth he not acknowledge the truth T. S. How wretchedly do you abuse that place 1 John 5.10 saying Pag. 19 That the record there spoken of is the Scripture when as the very Scripture it self giveth you the lye saying That the record and witness there spoken of is within the Saints which record the very next vâ—rse there expresseth to be eternal life which God hath given to the Saints and is paper and ink within the Saints or are they eternal life W. T. A. Its wonder he should talk of lying to another who whilst he is doing it tels three untruths himself For 1. I did not say The record there spoken of is the Scripture but in the Scripture is â—aid up the record which God hath given â—f his Son And that the Scripture I put in the margin John 5.39 plainly proves for Christ saith there the Scriptures testifie of him 2. It is a worse falshood and of an higher nature to say the Scripture gives any man the lye when there is no such matter that is to abuse him and Scripture too and so it is here for what if this Scripture say that a Beâ—iever hatâ— this witness within himself doth that give him the lye who saith it is without may not the same thing be both without and within us in divers respects and in different wayes a Is not Christ now without us that is ascended far above all heavenâ— Eph. 4.10 Acts 3.21 and yet within us i dwelling in our hearts by faitâ— Eph. 3.17 so is the witness of Jesus Christ laid up and held forth in Scripture â—saiah 53.1 John 5.39 but yet it is within the Believer also that is received into his heart by faith Luke 8.15 and is firmly imprinted upon his renewed soul and conscience by the holy Ghost 1 Cor. 3.3 3. He saith that this very Text expresseth this record to be eternal life and that 's false too for the Apostle doth not say This record is eternal lâ—fe but This is the record that God hath given to us eternal life b But his last words may not be lightly passed over wherein he saith Is paper and ink within the Saints or aâ—e they eteâ—nal life This is the right but the sad language of the blaspheming quakers for hath it not reference to those first words to wit that the recoâ—d spoken of 1 John 5.10 is the Scripture This he refutes after his fashion because it is within and because it is eternal life And then addes Is paper and ink i Is the Scripture within the Saints or Is that eternal life In the page before this he is highly displeased because some of his Informers told him that I suggested he denied Scripture to which I have spoken before in answer to his Epistle But But here the Reader may see he doth not deny Scripture for he acknowledgeth it to be ink and paper Now I grant that heavenly truths are written with ink in paper as John 3. v. 13. but for all that there 's a Spiritual and saving sense and meaning in them A Malefactors pardon is written with pen ink and paper but his life is laid up in it which yet ink and paper could never help him to Have we not all cause to tremble that there is a generation of men risen up amongst us who do so vilifie that word of God which is quick and powerful and sharper then any two edged sword Heb. 4.12 which David hid within his heart and
be asked profitably when they be asked sincerely yet these are the times wherein many men frame querieâ— to pick quarrels and in that respect better some silence then more strife If therefore I had answered none of his queries he had no reason to be querulous yet some I answered briefly because that was sooner done and by that all men may see how willing the wayward questionist is to be informed T.S. Did noâ— Paul and other Saints witness Jesus Christ to come whenas he lived in them Pag. 32 and was in them their hope of glory strength life peace W.T. A. Christ is come already in the flesh to us in the Spirit into us but is not come yet nor till the last day is to come in his power and glory Matt. 24.30 Of the Ministry and calling of Ministers T.S. I Judge those Ministers of Christ Pag. 32 who run not before they are sent of him and do abide in the Doctrine of Christ who have received that gift not by expence of money in a University but freely from the Lord by which they are made able Ministers of the New-Testament not of the Letter but the Spirit who preach him in words and own him by their works W.T. A. Thanks be to God that there are so many publike Teachers in this Nation to which this description may be justly applyed they having received a gift to be able Ministers of the New-Testament freely from the Lord though there were money expended in the University that they might receive it freely â—n God waâ— that is in the obedient serving of free grace and doing their own endeavor in reading meditating studying to shew thâ—mseâ—vâ—s 〈…〉 as Timothy was charged to do who had that gift freely from God 1 Tim. 4.13 14 15 16. 2 Tim. 2.15 But how true his profession is that such men are precious in his eyes let his precious Epistle â—o â—ll the publike Teachers in this Nation shew As for the coâ—trary sort whom he describeth and judgeth not to be Ministers if his meaning were only to shew a dislike of men vitious in the Ministry there be Ministers enough that would join with him in that who yet cannot consent with him in saying such are no Ministers becaus even among men unquestionably call'd as te Priests and Levites were there hath still been a corrupt mixture But that any tell the people as he saith they do p. 33. that a heap of stones is the Churcâ— is I think his tale yet may the place where the Congregation meets which is not an heap of stones but is or should be a decent house be as properly called the Church as that place is called the Court where Tenants do at times meet together to wait upon their Lord when it is said that the Centurion built the Jews a Synagogue a Here this Writer comes and complains That the Elders of the Jews call an heap of Stones a Congregation for that the word Synagogue * signifies But he that complains without reason must go home again without relief T.S. Where is it written that one was made a Minister by ordinary call mother by extraordinary W.T. A. The thing is written Gal. 1.1 Act. 14.23 T.S. Is there so much as mention made iâ— either of those Scriptures of a Call ordinary or extraordinary and have you yet the confidence positively to assert that it is so written in these Scriptures Must your dreams and drâ—wsie meanings passe for Scripture W.T. A. Its wonder that this quick-sighted youth that speaks so much here and otherwhere of dreaming and drowsinesse should be so dull and obtuse himself as not to see that I said The thing is written and not the words are written Why doth he not awake himself and prove that those two Scriptures do not in their true sense and meaning lay before us a Calling of two sorts one from Christ immediately and so Paul was called himself which we call extraordinary because it was but of certain persons and but for a certain time and accompanied with extraordinary miraculous gifts this the first Scripture shews Gal. 1.1 The other from Christ mediately by the Ministry of men and so Elders were ordained by Paul and Barnabas as the other Scripture shews â—ct 14.23 this we call ordinary as being common to all Ministers and to continue in all ages of the Church Nor doth this make two doors into the Sheepfold as this caviller would collect but two ways of entring in by the same door T. S You say This distinction hath ever â—een us'd in the Churches of God Pag. 34 wâ—en it was never us'd among any of the Churches mentioned in the Scripturâ—â— W.T. A. I said so in an usual way of speaking yet not meaning to extend it to all that time wherein God hath had a Church which hath been from the beginning of the world but to declare only that it hath been of long and continual use in the Churches of God and so the word ver is ordinarily used viz. to signifie a long and yet limited term of time as 1 Sam. 27.12 Exod. 12.24 21.6 Besides that in the Scripture-Churches there was as hath been shewed this distinction in the ground and thing it self though not in the form of words W.T. Our gifts abilities and fitnesse for the Ministry which are Gods inward call were first tryed Pag. 35 and testimonials of our carriage were given T.S. Doth the Scripture anywhere say That gifts abilities and fitness for the Ministry are Gods inward call or that any of the Saints sought Testimonials in order to their being made Ministers or did Pauâ— Peter keep any Chaplains to try men W.T. A. 1. Is it anywhere said in Scripture that faith love and holy desires are inward Graces Is there not enough therefore in Scripture to gather that they are so when as we find there that such vertues are placed in the iâ—ner and hidden man of the heart that in opposition to outward and bodily things Ro. 7.22 10.10 1 Peâ—. 3.3 4.2 Coâ— 4.16 So it is in this case Paul describes the qualities of those that are to be made Ministers which are inward and whereunto are opposed other qualifications which are outward These qualities namely abilities for and strong desires to the Work of the Ministry are a Call because God plants them in the heart as pointing to putting them into a capacity for and as it were leading unto that Calling and they are an inward Call because they are seated in the inner man 2. Whatever Paul and Peter did in their own persons we are sure that Paul requires of Tâ—mothy to see that the Deacons be proved and for the same reason the Bishops and Presbyters also before they could use that Office 1 Tâ—m 3.10 why are the things required in Ministers so fully and distinctly prescribed Why is such a precise commandment given to lay hands suddâ—nly upon no man but that diligent search was to be made into those that were
to be made Ministers for which no doubt there were able and faithful Instruments and Agents employed As for his Expression of keeping Chaplains that 's but to make himself his company merry who had more need to be made wise T.S. But who are those that tryed you were they not such as are like unto your self Pag. 35 could they try your gifts who had not the gift themselves Could those that were enemies to the cross of Christ try who were fit to be made Ministers of Christ c. W.T. A. 1. If they were as he saith like my self I leave it to others to speak and judge whether they were such as he describes afterward nor would he speak so of former-Ordainers without any exception or discretion if he were as careful to speak the Truth as he is vvilling to speak the vvorst 2. Though Tryars be very blamable in regard of their personal carriage yet having abilities in themselves and rules to walk by in their examination they might make a true discovery in the capacity of Tryars An Artificer may be a dissolute man in his life and yet being skilfull in his calling may be fitter than a man of better carriage to try those that pretend to that Calling And as for grace and goodness besides that many that were Examiners and Ordainers formerly were godly men even he that we cannot say is possest with true grace himself yet may be so farre acquianted wiâ—h it as to be able to enquire into the probable evidences of it Whereof on the other side the holiest man that is is not able to give an infalible character in another man W.T. And that there might be an outward calling we were Ordained by Bishops that were Presbyters and other Presbyters that were not Bishops who were to be and werâ— joyned with them in our Ordination T. S. You have well derived your Succession and very learnedly acknowledge your self and your Brethren to be Romes Emissaries brats of Babylon c. W.T. A. 1. He must have leave to say any thing and it must be true because he saies so who in all his Book shewes himself a man of a deceitfull tongue But were those Bishops and Presbyters Antichristian that for the testimony of Jesus were buried in Antichristian flames Or divers others that have imployed themselves from time to time since that time in the opposing of Antichrist and his antichristian doctrines renouncing also in their practice his waies of worship 2. If he say they were Antichristian because their Ordination and call to the Ministry came from Antichrist although I doubt not they that fear God sufficiently see the Lords approbation of our Ministry by the effect they have found it to have on their hearts and souls yet for their further satisfaction this being a thing that is still urged by those of all sorts that are adversaries to the Ministry I shall give this more particular account of it First as ordinary Ministers that is Pastors and Teachers are from Christ Ephes. 4.11 and the ordinary way of their ordination also is from Christ Tit. 1.5 so the ordaining of publick Teachers in that way was not from but long before Antichrist for we find it in Scripture Acts 14.23 1 Tim. 4.14 If the Ministry be said to have been under Antichrist it is not denyed but that amounts to no more but that it passed through Antichrist as the Scriptures also did and the ordinance of Baptism which it is confessed are not therefore to be rejected Now though it be granted that our Ministry came through Antichrist yet that doth not prove that it came from him but that it came not from him for how could that come from him that was before him and onely passed through him as an Army through an enemies countrey Nor is it denyed that this and other Ordinances were defiled in the passage but its one thing to be made â—oul another thing to be made null and to loose their nature and substance It is observed that Priests and School doctors ordained in popish Churches and Schools were by Oath solemnly bound to confute errour and to maintain the antient Apostolick Faith I am saith Luther a baptized Christian and withall a sworn Doctor of the holy Scripture and a daily preacher whom it concerns in regard of my name condition oath and office to abâ—lish perverse false seducing impious doctrines or at least to hinder them And this reason he gives of his burning of popish and poisoning b Books As this on the one side addes little to the reputation of the Church of Rome who though they had the things of God yet have managed them for the devils use no more than it added to Belshashers honour and happiness that he had in his custody the Golden vessels that were taken out of the Temple of the house of God to drink and quaff in Dan. 5.3 So on the other side it cannot be justly reckoned a disparagement to our Ministry received from Christ and his Apostles and the Primitive Churches that it hath passed through and been polluted by the Romish Channel no more than it was a dishonour to those holy Vessels or them that bare them and ministred with them Isa 52.11 that they were abused to the praise of Idol gods in Babilon Dan. 5.4 when after they came to be used according to the minde and to the honour of the true God in Sion Secondly I answer That if there had been no lawfull Call to the Ministry in the Church of Rome no not for substance yet our first Reformers and noble Predecessors might be surely said to be lawfully called because they being men of extraordinary abilities spirits and zeal for God and so inwardly and eminently qualified and called were also accepted chosen and clos'd with and outwardly called by the Church of God that is by those Christians that were lovers of the truth and wayes of God in those corrupt times whereby they might be truely said as things then stood to be sufficiently set apart for the ministerial work Obj. But you say Ministers are to be Ordained by Ministers and to be set apart by the Presbytery c Answ. True regularly and in settled times and when it may be had for Paul doth not send to the Christians of Creâ—e to Ordain Elders themselvâ—s but he leaves Titus to do it But many things may be done lawfully in a confused time and when Churches are in constituting and reforming that are not to be allowed when they are once formed and settled When a town is on fire every one that hath a Bucket that hath strength and means to do it is called to quench it The world was all on a flame as it were by the popish fire This fire was to be quenched that it might not devoure all The first Reformers had Buckets that is gifts and abilities to draw water out of the wells of salvation to prevent the consumption of all right
Ministry which all gooâ— men that had an hâ—nd in removing of Bishops abhor than the taking away of Bishops had been absolutely the Devils work For as God is his Ministers best friend so is the Devill their greatest Enemy and other opposites are but his Ministers 2 Cor. 11.15 That lying Spirit it was that opposed Michaiah in the Prophets of Ahabâ— 1 King 22.22 that encountred Paul in Elymas the Sorcerer Act. 13.10 That hindred the same Paul once and again in his holy intentions 1 Thes. 2.18 It s he that casts as many as he can of them into prison and where Anâ—ipas is slain there Satan dwels Revel. 2.10 13. A lamentable thing it is that this Opponent and that Adversary should be so unanimous anâ— that this lâ—te Preacher should be a brazen faced Professor of his longings to have the Ministry abolished For these aâ—e his words What is the designs I must feare and tremble to act Is it to endeavour the rooting out of your Ministry And why fear and tremble at it Is your Ministry so precious a thing that it may not be pluck'd up under the same penalty as was in eating the forbidden fruit c. It may make other men tremble to see that a man living under the light of the Gospel should have so little knowledge grace and fear of God as to utter such words when those persons or Nations that seek to throw down the Lords Ministers which Ministers are in this Nation or in no Nation in the world as they do Giant like oppose themselves against heaven and Gods expresse ordinance Ephes 4 11 c. So they take the next and most effectuall course to ruine themselves 2 Chron 36.15.16 17. T. S. I shall note two things with which you falsly accuse me The first is that I inveigh against humane learning If a man say a tilestone is not fit to make a foundation must it presently be concluded he denies the use of tilestones W. T A I say he inveighs against it because he speaks contemptuously of it and of Vniversities in reference to Ministerial assistance as if it were ridiculous to say that a Minister hath any help for his work in that way when all that know any thing rightly know that humane learning in the hand of grace is a great help for the better understanding of heavenly things I granted to him though he runs on as if he had heard nothing of it that learning cannot make any a spiritual man but yet it makes a spiritual man a better servant But Quakers might be glad if there were no learning nor wisdom in the world for as long as there is any their folly will be made to appear to all men what he saies of tilestones shews that he never knew what it was to be a grounded schollar For though learning be not the ground-work of Religion yet it supplies many grounds which wisemen use to call grounds of learning whereof an holy mind makes good use for the justification of the things of God against the subtilties of ungodly men T.S. 2. You accuse me with seeking to justifie absurd Tenents To which I shall onely say that I seek to justifie no Tenents but such as the scripture doth justifie W.T. These are good words and shew that the scripture is more than Paper and Ink because it doth justifie Tenents But since he refers himself to that it seems as a Rule to judge things by let him shew where the scripture doth justifie these Tenents viz. That the Scripture is not the Rule of Saints that it is not the ground of Faith that the Infants of believing Parents are not to be baptized c. T.S. Whether doth not the Scripture testifie that Christ is the true light that enlighteneth every man that comes into the world and also that he that followeth that light shall not walk in darknes but shall have the light of life W.T. A. This is spoken to at large in my Answer to his Epistle already published and namely to the first Article of his charge against the Ministers of the Nation For present I answer thus Christ enlightens men more wayes than one to wit 1 By natural light Jâ—h. 1.4 and so onely he lighteth every man that commeth into the world Now he that hath that light and no more cannot in an ordinary way have life because he is without Christ Ephes. 2.12 From whom alone life is to be had 1 Joh. 5.11.12 2. By Gospel-light Now whosoever doth by the spirit of grace follow that light or follow Christ so enlightening him he shall have life Joh. 10.27 But this will do him little pleasure whose pleading is fix'd not on a light which comes from the word but which enlightens every man that comes into the world T.S. Whereas you coat Rom. 10.14 How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard You might have found an answer if you had lookd a little further viz. in the 18. v. where it is written But I say have they not heard yes verily their sound went into all the earth and their words unto the ends of the world W.T. A. 1. The Apostle shews in that Chapter that the time was now come wherein both Jews and Gentiles believing should be saved Rom. 10 11 12. But for this belief he declâ—reth hearing to be necessary v. 14. whereupon it might be objected How can this salvation be extended to all when this hearing is not extended to all This Objection is answered in the v. 18. wherein the Apostle shews that at the same time wherein God appointed to receive the Nations of the world together with the Jews into a saving state he ordained also the means and that the word of Salvation should be heard and received of them so that as the Sun in the Firmament yea the whole frame of heaven spoken of Psal. 19 1. Shines and in a sort speaks to all so the Sun of righteousnesse in the New Testament did by the Apostles shine and preach to all the world that is as it is expressed v. 12. to Jews and Greeks And so the word World is taken in the New Testament Matth. 13.38 1 John 2.2 viz. as opposed to that confinement that there was of the ordinances of God to the Jewish Church in the Old Testament-times the sound of the Gospel therefore went into all the earth or all the world that is all Nations of the world Rom. 16.26 generally yea it was to be preached to every creature a indifferently but that will not prove that it reacheth to every place particularly much lesse to every person individually 2. If this sound went into all the earth that is to Gentiles as well as Jews by the Apostles preaching that so men might believe and be saved then it follows that either that preaching and sounding forth of the Gospel was unnecessary or else they could not believe nor be saved any other way and if they could not