use of that element ordained by Christ our Lord and joyned with a true faith because the defect of faith doth prejudice the integritie of the Sacrament 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that Baptism is a Sacrament instituted by the Lord which unless a man hath received he hath not coÌ„munion with Christ from whose death buriall and glorious Resurrection the whole vertue and efficacy of Baptism doth proceed Therefore in the same forme wherein our LORD hath coÌ„manded in the Gospel we are certain that to those who be Baptized both Original and Actual sins are pardoned so that whosoever have been washed In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost are regenerate cleansed justified But concerning the repetitioÌ„ of it we have no coÌ„mand to be Re-baptised therfore we must abstaine from this incoÌ„venience 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We beleeve that the other Sacrament was ordained of the Lord which we call the Eucharist For in the night wherein he was betrayed taking bâ—ead and blessing it he said to his Apostles Take ye â—at this is my Body and when he had taken the Cup he gave thanks and said Drinke ye all of this this is my Blood which was shed for many do this in remâ—mbâ—ance of me And Paul addeth for as often as ye shall eat of this Bread and drinke of this Cup ye do shew the Lords death this is the pure and lawful institution of this wonderful Sacrament in administration whereof we confess and profess a true and real presence of Christ our Lord but yet such â—â— one as Faith offereth â—o us not such as devised Transubstantiation teacheth For we belive the faithful do eat the Body of Christ in the supper of the Lord not by breaking it with the teeth of the Body but by perceiving it with the sense feeling of the Soul sith the Body of Christ is not that which is visible in the Sacrament but that which Faith spiritually apprehendeth and offereth to us from whence it is true that if we believe we do eat and partake if we do not believe we are destitute of all the fruit of it We believe consequently that to drink the Cup in the Sacrament is to be partaker of the true Blood of our Lord Iesus Christ in the same manner as we affirmed of the Body for as the Authour of it commanded concerning his Body so he did concerning his Blood which commandment ought neither to be dismembred nor maymed according to the fancy of mans arbitrement yea rather the institution ought to be kept as it was delivered to us When therefore we have been partakers of the Body and Blood of Christ worthily and have communicated intirely we acknowledge our selves to be reconciled united to our head of the same Body with certaine hope to be coheires in the Kingdome to come 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the Souls of the dead are either in blessedness or in damnation according as every one hath done for as soon as they remove out of the Body they passe either to Christ or into hell for as a man is found at his death so he is judged and after this life there iâ— neither power nor opportunity to repent In this life there is a time of Grace they therefore who be justified here shal suffer no punishment hereafter but they who being not justified do dye are appointed for everlasting punishments By which it is evident that the fiction of Pargatory is not to be admitted but in the truth it is determined that every one ought to repent in this life and to obtaine remission of his sins by our Lord Iesus Christ if he will be saved And let this be the end 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. This compendious and brief Confession of us we conjectur will be a contradiction to them who are pleased to slander maliciously accuse us and unjustly persecute us But we trust in our Lord Jesus Christ and hope that he will not relinquish the cause of his faithful ones nor let the rod of wickednessly upon the lot of the righteous Daâ—id in Constantinople in the Moneth of March 1629. CYRILL Patriarch of Constantinople Courteous Reader thy favour is desired in some escapes of the Press these which are but literal not altering the sense pardon and pass by these which are more gross amend as followeth In Epist Ded. Page 5. Line 10. Read callida l â—0 for way hold Read waxe bold In the Epistle to the Reader p. 8. l. 2 for Church r. Christ p. 16. l. ult for the r. theâ—e p. 18. l. 12. for calumnies r. calamities page 19. line 27. for perswaded read disswaded page 21. line 17. for δ◠r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 26. l. 5. for 17 r. 14. In the Debate p 8. l. 13. for although all r. Apocryphal p 19. l antep del lay p. 33 l. ult r. proceed p. 34. l. 17 for Paliner r. Parmen p 37. l. 21 for a r. the. p. 46 l. antep r. Praxeam p. 48 l. 6. r. conjuncta p. 69. l. 25. for tradition r. citation p. 88. l. 23. r. lament p. 103. l 20. del Thirdly p. 107. l. â— r mortalitate p 121. l. 13. r. were made p. 129. l. 18. r. breasts p. 130. l. 19. for of r. in p. 138 l. 19. r. statue p. 160. l. 9. for according to r. accordingly p 161 l. penulâ— r. non continentur p. 175. from l. 10. to 17. read all that period in p. 177. l. 1. for that r. not p. 234. l. 20 adde or as some 23. p. 268. l 23. r. let them testifie p. 270 l. 25. r. comminations p. 284. l. 17. r in company p. 284. l 5. r. none can In some copies though but in few there will be found these errours in Ep. Ded. p. 2 Peope for Pope p. 3. l. 9. Sacraments for Sacrament l. 20. modestly and humbly for modestie humilitie p. 4. l. 17. underminding for undermining l. 18. teares for tares in pres of the Greek Confession twise δ for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If any testimonies be repeated that is to be imputed to the Impunger not to the Defender A DIALOGUE Betwixt a Papist and a reformed PROFESSOUR who protesteth against the Errours of Popery written for information of the Simple who love the truth that they be not ensnared by the temptations of the time PAPIST QUESTION I SEEing this Age is so controversall how shall it be discerned who hath the Truth PROTE ¦ STANT Answer A By the Scriptures The written word of God is the only infallible determiner of faith and manners It hath livine Authoâ—ity heavenly Majesty to a right discerner it maketh spirituall impressâ—ons on the soâ—l to it as chief judge on Earth all â—â—â—eals should be made Is 8. 20. To the â—â—w and the Testimony Papists Reply To this Answere a Papist replyeth that it is not satisfying and rendereth five reasons why the Scipture cannot be
alleadge for this that the books of Scripture like the Sun shew themselves to be such to him who hath the spirit But I would ask at such why the Rev. St. James Epistle the second of St. Peter and two of St. John did not shew themselves to be Scripture to Luther that spiritual man and the Protestants very first Apostle in the work of reformation in the end you say Let any judge whither it be safest that the revealed will of God be your rule and determiner or the dictats of self contradicting creatures Where you seem to rubbe on Catholicks But Sir this toucheth not them at all for they profess not to believe self-contradicting creatures but the unanimous consent of Councils and fathers or the Catholick Church known to be the only Church established by Christ and his Apostles and by the continued succession of Popes Bishops and Pastors the unity universality and gifts of miracles in all ages c. Which Christ hath called the ground and pillar of truth 1. Tim. 3. 15. and against which he assureth us the gates of hell shal not prevail Math. 16. 18. and which he hath commanded us to hear otherwise to be holden as heathens and publicans Math. 18. 17. so you see that the written word maketh the Church our judge which we should obey and that ye who make so much of the written word do not believe it when ye do not obey her And here I remarke that Protestant Ministers and preachers deceive the people in that they ground their faith on the written word only and Roman Catholicks say they on humane tradition and their Churches authority which being composed of men is subject to errour Whereas the contrar is true for Roman Catholicks believe nothing which the written word believing both the tradition of the Church and Apostles doth not expresly warrand As for the Church what is more expresly said then what I have cited both to prove that we are bound to hear her Mat. 18. 18. and hold her authority infallible Math. 16. 18 and the house of God which is the pillar and ground of truth 1. Tim. 3. 15. Neither doth it avail you to say this is not said of the Roman Church which is not the universal Church but a particular one a strumpet c. For we speak not of any particular Church when we say that the Church is infallible nor when we say the Roman the Catholick do we understand the particular Church at Rome But that Church which professeth constantly the Romans faith spread in saint Pauls time through all the world As we call yet the Roman Empire that which hath its seat in Vien of Austria Yea Protestants calling their own the reformed Church cannot say but we have one Church on earth which Christ commanded us to hear constantly And if the reformed Church be the true Church then she must have taken the place from that church which was deformed and had fallen into an errour and so deserved no more to be called the pillar and ground of truth or to be heard Moreover the very pillars of the Protestant Religion grant all the world to be in an errour before themselves and so against the express written Word must deny the infallibility of any Church whatever For Calv. Instit lib. 4. cap. 18. saith they made all the Kings and People of the earth drunk from the first to the last and Hospinian epist 41. saith Luthers separation was from all the world White in his defence chap. 37. saith Popery was a leprosie breeding so universally in the church that there was no visible company of men free from it Jewel in his Sermon on Luke 11. The whole world Princes and people were overwhelmed by ignorance and bound by oath to the Pope which if it be true that the Church in former ages did erre the reformed Church may erre that themselves do not deny Thence it followeth clearly that the Protestant Church is not the house of GOD called the pillar and ground of truth that she is not Christs Church against which the gates of hell shal not prevail that none are bound to hear her in matters of faith being subject to errour And so Protestants may well desire men to read the Scripture and believe what they found there but not urge any man to follow their doctrine but in so far as they find it conforme to Scripture which all Roman Catholicks protest they do not As for traditions are we not commanded to hold them in the clear written Word 2. Thess 2. 15. Hold the traditions which ye have learned whither by word or our epistle Protestants read documents but documents by word and traditions are the same thing on which place Chrysost saith It is evident that the Apostle did not deliver all things by writ but many things by word which are worthy of credit as wel as the other That is Christs word as well as his writ therefore we call them divine and Apostolical traditions Aug. lib. 5. de Trinit cap. 23. speaking of rebaptization The Apostle saith he commanded nothing of it but that customâ— which is believed to proceed from the Apostle is opposed against Cyprian in it as many things are which the whole Church holdeth and therefore are believed to be commanded by the Apostles though not written Aâ—d in the first age saint Dennis chap. 1. speaking of the Ecclesiastick hierarchy saith These our chief captains of Priestly function did deliver to us the chiefest and supersubstantial points partly in written partly in unwritten institutions Epiph. Haeres 61. is of the same minde we must hold traditions saith he for the Scripture hâ—th not all things and Tertullian de praescrip grounds his faith on the authority of the Church and what tradition I believe saith he I received from the present Church the present Church from the primitive that from the Apostles the Apostles from Christ Here I hope you see you must either admit traditions as necessar in themselves and infallible in their authority or else disclaim both Scripture and Fathers All that Protestants can say either against the authority of the Church in general Councils or Apostolick traditions delivered by her is that all her decisions and traditions flow from men and so are not infallible But I answer neither were the Prophets Apostles Evangelists who penned the Scripture but men yet I hope their writtings are not fallible or subject to errour Because they were inspired directly and assisted by the Spirit of God The Fathers of the Church have to this day that promise verified to them Math. 28. 20. which was made as well to their successours as to themselves As for that some Protestante speak of an invisible Church composed of the Elect it is but a shift to delude the ignorant for as it is a Maxime of law Idem est non esse non apparere i. e. it is the same not to be and not to appear to be in the matter of any
hoâ—ny or milk â—o the Sacrament of the Supper Neither is it reason to â—rgue from tâ—e name to the thing Wâ— call it Baptiâ—m with the Scripture And seeing his implyeth washing with water â—â— is grâ—â—â— superstition to do this without a warrand which hath â—o relation to washing 〈◊〉 would have mâ— râ—semblance with that then salt The name Sacrament is acknowledge I not to be a Scripture word But what Logick is thâ—â— The seals of the Covenant are named Sacraments by the Church Ergo we may adde materials to the work without a warrand The practise of the Baptist objected by me seemeth unanswerable for you fail by it as by a rock which is not candid dealing Yet it is your ordinar manner to pass with silence material arguments Seventhly Ye adde to the Bible humane § 7. Inst traditions which ye equalize and in a sort preferre to it This is point blank contrar to the Word Deut. 4. 2. Rev. 22. 18. If any man adde to these things GOD shal adde to him the plagues written in this book so ye have â—o fear a plague in due time Reply These are open calumnies made Papists Reply to deceive the people in Pulpits as I have shewed reflecting on your sixt answer And prove againe summarily by this Syllogism what is expresly contained in Scripture is not contrar to it But this is expresly commanded 2. Thess 2. 1. Hold fast the traditions which ye have received Neither are your citations of Deut. or Rev. to any purpose For when it is said there If any man shal adde to these things GOD shal adde to him the plagues written in the book Of necessity it must be understood of these books only adding any thing as a part of them otherwise it will exclude all other Scripture as well as tradition But it may be you think the Revelation the last written book of Scripture and that St. John there did speak of all the Bible But this is a conceit out of ignorance seeing Chemnitius your great Gun sayes his Gospel was written after the Revelation And some say so of his Epistles in the very last of which and last verse he sayes I have many things to writ unto you but not with pen and ink but I trust to come unto you and speak face to face But ye would not have believed him speaking face to face who will believe nothing but that which is written Answer You again defend traditions by your old argument A genere ad speciem affirmative Prote ∣ stants Duply which is none concludent as I have proved fully already upon the sixth question to which I referre the Reader And your answer to the 4. Deut. and Rev. 22. confuteth your self For you grant that it is not lawful to adde any thing as a part of these books Then say I it is as unlawful to adde traditions as a part of the Bible and make an entire object of faith with both which is your doctrine If the Pirrat was faulty for taking a ship Alexander was more faulty by taking of Nations We will put nothing to the Scripture that way For then we might make a new Bible and nothing into our Creed but what was written by the Penneâ—s of it You make me ignorant of the time when the Revelation was written and goes about to father that on me which came not into my mind How far and wherein we hold traditions Vide supra on Quest sixth I have no delight to make repetitions Eightly Ye mis-regard the Lords-day and § 8. Inst celebrate dayes of your own devysing contrar to and without any warrand from the Word see Gal. 4. 10. You reply that these are calumnies for we Papists Reply are taught to keep the Lords-day most religiously and with it the holy dayes of Christs-Birth Circumsion adoration by the Kings presentation in the Temple the feasts of the Mother of GOD of the twelve Apostles of some Martyrs and other Saints upon the same ground of Apostolick tradition and ordinance of the Church which the Scripture commandeth us to hear hold fast so what we do in this is neither contrar to Scripture nor without warrand from the written Word And your citation may be as well applyed against your observation of dayes of humiliation and thanks-giving For that place forbiddeth only Heathenish or Jewish days or dismal days superstitiously keeped on frivolous remarkes See Hierom on the place Aug. cont Argenant cap. 16. and in his epist 118. cap. 7. and hear the same Aug. speaking of all our holy dayes in express terms which Protestants taking away what St. Aug. saith may creep in both ungrateful forgetting of Christs mysteries and unkind oblivion of his Saints You call this Argument a Calumnie but it in too well known how small regard is had Prote ∣ stants Duply to the Lords day throughout the Popes Dominions And how farre other dayes of humane institution are by you preferred to them And for Aug. whom you cite as the main patron of them he was so far from approving the trash of his time brought in by the devices of men in the worship of God that in his 119. ep he sayeth If they continue they will become Heathnish and Judaize in many things So according to Hieroms exposition on the text Gal. 4. 10. concerneth you for some of your stust is Judaicall some Paganish Polyd. Virgil de invent lib. 4. in proaemio sayeth That a verie world of Jewish and Heathnish ceremonies pestereth the Lords field Agrippa de Vanit cap. 6. sayeth That Christians now are more oppressed with ceremonies then the Jewes were The Jewish holy dayes were but few in respect of the Romish for they had but their Passover Pentecost feast of Tabernacles of Trumpets Reconciliation New-Moons Purim and Dedication the most of which were of divine institution These have holy dayes for every Saint All saints all soules for the Cross Corpus Christi two dayeâ— every week Lent fast c. without any warrand from scripture or pure antiquitie For Aug. sayeth ep 86. against Urbicus we are indeed commanded to fast but I find not the dayes prescribed in the Evangelicall or Apostolicall writtings The same saith Socrates that it was left by the Apostles to every mans free choise lib. 5. cap. 22. and Erasmus on the 11. of Matth. complaineth that in Hieroms time there were few holy dayes beside the Lords day but now they were unreasonable and burdensome because of their multitude Thus you see neither Hierom nor Aug. savour your holy dayes unless it be in yoâ—r Utopian tractate contra Argentinant for there is non-such among his workes You might easily perceive that Gal. 4. 10. doth not militate as much against our dayes of humiliation or thanksgiving as your holy dayes if you woâ—ld consider First We have more regarde to he Lords-day nor any of these this we desiderar mâ—inly in you for as ye preferre humane traditions to the Scripture so do you these your dayes
We are bound as Christians not only to bear the scourge of tongues but more also for the Gospels sake when called to it Augustin said to Petilian his tongue was not the fan I am a man in the floore of Christ and if good grain will be laid up in the Garner blow the wind as it will So we may say to such râ—ilers yea if the adversarie would write not only pasquils but a book of this kind we may bind it to our shoulders and wear it as our crown For the Lord will in due time wipe of the rebuke of his people Is 25. 8 which they bear for his Name That saying of Bernard is sweet Cimbae me comitto in tanto discrimine confidens in Domine qui pro illo recte lâ—quentibus pro illo laborautibus dicit Adsum 〈◊〉 run the reaâ—k trusting in the Lord who hath promised presence to all who speak and act rightlie for him And heroickly Luther to the same purpose if truth be on my side quidni pro viribus agam why should â—â—ot do my uttermost sim homicida sim adulter â—â—â—do silentii non arguar dum Christus patitur Let them call me what they wil if I be not guilty of sinful silence when Christ suffereth in his truth It is a very smal matter upon this account to be judged of men 1. Cor. 4. 3. these things are light and heavy as we ordinarily take them If this strain of reproaching did siste at us it were not so much but they reproach the written word of GOD and sentence it boldly of imperfection contrar to Psalm 19. 7. 2. Tim. 3. 15. 17. and of obscuritie as if it were not a light and lantherue to our paths Psalm 119. 105. Yea they shamelesly averre that the authority of the Church and Pope of Rome is greater to us nor Scripture Is it not lamentable that men called Christians for pompous selfish interests should laboriously studie to cast aspersions upon the unâ—ported word of GOD and depretiate it so in the world May not this render Popery suspicious to any knowing man that the abettors thereof decline the written word of GOD to be the sole umpire of faith and manners and endeavour to discredit it before the Nations which is the touch-stone of truth and best fence we have against Satan and all his complices such non sunt audiendi saith holy Aug. Confes lib. 6. cap. 5. they should not in this be heard far less obeyed Their second device when they are pressed with the truth is to coin evil grounded distinctions and with this ley money to make merchandise of poor simple souls Needle headed men have strangely acted their inventions herein and cruÌ„bled Gospel truths thus that he is now thought the best and most learned Papist who can findout subtile subterfugies and receptacles against plain Scripture verities So that the Romanists are the great foxes which eat up the tender vines Other Sectaries who separat themselves from the Church builded on the foundation Eph. 2. 20. and deface the doctrine which is according to Godliness are of lesser magnitude That ye may know what sort of proppes uphold their rotten building take these five instances First When we prove that the Scripture is the rule of faith this they grant in part but say they it is a partial not the total rule they must sowder somewhat of their own tradition to it erre they acknowledge it for a rule This is a reasonless shift If the rule be not total and perfect in its own kinde for its own ends it is no rule at all but a semi-rule regula nec appositionem nec ablationem admittit saith Theophilact on the 3. chap. to the Philip. Nothing can be added to or taken from a rule the law of nature the law of reason are sufficient for their own ends so is the written word of GOD for salvation When we say Secondly that the word of GOD cannot have authority from men therefore the Scripture is judge of the Church and not the Church of the Scripture They answer by a leaden distinction that it hath authority from the Church in respect of us but not in respect of it self This is a reasonless evasion for all authority is an act quoad extra and relative to us The Scriptures have excellency and dignity internal but all its authority is external and relative to men So that distinction is null If the Scripture hath its authority from the testimony of their Church then their faith must be ultimatly resolved into their Church testimony as more authoritative nor the word of GOD. Propter quod unumquodque est tale illud ipsum est magis tale Therefore Popish faith by this maxime is not divine but ecclesiastick and humane Now the Church and faith of Believers should be builded immediatly upon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles Iesus Christ himself being the chief corner-stone Eph. 2. 20. Therefore the Pope with his traditions cannot found the Church nor the faith of Christians other foundation can no man lay then that which is laid 1. Cor. 3. 11. To this they returne a distinction that Iesus Christ is the principal and the Pope the secondary foundation seeing it was said to Peter upon this rock I will build my Church This subterfuge in like the rest if this was said to Peter personally as Tertul. de praescrip thinketh then not to his successours suppose the Pope were the man a personal individual prerogative is incoÌ„municable If it was not personal but to him and his successours then if the Apostle Paul were living the Pope behoved to be above him in dignity and Church prerogative by reason Peter was above him and he succeedeth to his superioritie This to any discerner may appear absurd Beside the Church is builded on the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles Eph. 2. 20. then not upon one Apostle take the words as ye will The true meaning of these words upon this rock I will build my Church is this the confession of Peter concerning Iesus Church the Son of the living GOD was a â—ock on which the Church was builded This interpretation is authorized by Augustin who interpreteth the words thus Tract ult in Iohan. serm 13. de verbis Apost he giveth also strong reason for it lib. 1. retract cap. 21. non enim dictum est Petro tu es petra sed tu es Petrus which reason Valentia challengeth in vain disp 1. to 3. quaest 1. punc 7. Further there câ—nnot be two foundations if we speak properly If no man can lay another as the Scripture speaketh why should it be asserted Christ Iesus alone set forth in the doctrine of Prophets and Apostles is that solid foundation on which we build all our salvation he is that sure foundation laid in Zion and no wayes can this without blasphemie be applyed to the Pope seeing the Apostle Peter maketh application of it to Christ only 1. Peter 2. 6. Thirdly When we
Ghost proceedeth from the Father and the Son is clear in Scripture Io. 14. 16. 17. Ioh. 15. 26. Io. 16. 7. Gal. 4. 6. Fourthly That there be two Natures in Christ is clear Io. 1. 14. The Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us And Augustin who refuteth Rebaptization mantained by Donatists maketh no use of unwritten Traditions against that errour but of that Scripture Eph. 4. 5. One Lord one Faith one Baptism for he sayeth reâ—urrantus ad fontem viz. Scripturas let us return to the Scriptures which are the fountain then citeh that text mentioned Tom. 7. lib. 5. cap. 26. and Ordination is expressed in that Tense which by vertue of the word excludeth Reiteration It being a matter of Order if it be once done according to the rule 1. Tim. 4. 14. it is enough neither should this be debated here for all that we assert is that all points necessar to salvation are comprehended in Scripture either expresly or cosequentially by general or particular precepts Perinde sunt ea quae ex Scriptuâ—is Colliguntur atque ea quae scribuntur saith Nazianzen †Naz. de Theol. orat 5. i. e. These things which by necessary consequence are deduced from Scripture are of the same force with these which are written in it Let the Reader judge whither Popery be a safe way which buildeth our main foundations upon humane testimonie and derogats so much from the Scriptures of GOD. Yea ere they will give them their due rather will they strengthen Anti-Trinitarians Arrians Anti-Sacramentarians Anti-Sabbatarians Donatists and Separatists The Lord grant repentance to such who leaving the truth have a massed a body of errors Thirdly For that amongst many Versions Pa. Red. 3 yea and corruptions of Scripture which all do acknowledge and each sect imputeth to its adversaries it seemeth very hard to discern authentick Scripture many of the originals being lost and the extract comming to the hands of very few and few understand the Hebrew and Greek tongues wherein they are written and yet of this first of all we must be understood and assured if we will not waver in matters of fâ—â—th Answer first This is a digression to another Pro. An. 1 question concerning the Version for I would ask if there be any right Version at all this will not be denyed for the old Latine translation is acknowledged by you then it is the rule of faith and no humane testimony What doth this arguing prove against the point there be some corrupted Versions Ergo the Original rightly translated must not determine my faith some men are evil cloathed therefore a man should not be well cloathed against the cold there is no consequence there Further this objection maketh the word of God useles to men Now is it like that all should be commanded to go to the Law and Testimony to search the Scriptures if they could not be had by any Yea this Objection spoileth Providence of its rent of praise which hath appeared so visibly in the preservation of the Scriptures And we bless his Name for it that we have the Originals in Hebrew and Greek and so pure a translaon that if any will compare them they wil find great faithfulnes and skill in the translators But to answer this impertinent Objection An. 2. more fully we say that the Version is a Commentary be way of interpretation and we make neither the translatioÌ„ of the 70. nor of the vulgar Latine authentick but wheÌ„ we find errours in either we go ad judicem incorâ—uptum hoc est primaevam linguam to the uncorrupted Judge that is the first language so much speaketh your Acosta lib. 2. cap. 10. and in this rightly But yee Romanists have preferred the vulgar Latine to the Hebrew and Greek whereas it is a corrupt translation as some of your own testifie and corrupteth the doctrine witness that one text for many Gen. 3. 15. Ipsa conteret caput tuum She shal break thy head which is contrar to the Hebrew hu to the 70 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and putteth the Virgin Mary for Christ so overturneth a foundation Pagâ—â—n in his Preface to the Hebrew Grammar saith Optarem ut ostenderent mihi Germanam translationem quae enim pâ—ssim legitur non est Hieronymi incorrupta translatio i. e. I wish they would shew me the Genuin translation for that which is coÌ„monly received is not Hieroms pure translation and Sixtus Senensis Bib. lib. 8. sub finem sayeth Multa ibi sunt parum accommodate versa There are many things in it not fitly rendered so that our Version will be found as good as any And we are not hindered to run to the fountains in case of doubting we make use of these streams as helps and the Version is an humane instrument leading us to the well-head of the Original tongues Dei verbum non est linguased doctrina The word of GOD is not the language but the doctrine saith Rivet in his Isag cap. 1. and we need Grammar more then Tradition for understanding thereof Reason fourth Many cannot read Scripture and more as yet do not understand it the Pa. Rea. 4 Scripture then or written word cannot be the Rule of Faith to these poor ignorants but their Churches or Pastors authority And so it seemeth the Scripture cannot be the rule of faith to all persons or in all points or of any point contained in it self untill I be first assured of some infallible rule that this translation I rely upon is conform to the original in all points and this Bible I am reading is the authentick word of God Answer First This maketh nothing against Pro. An. 1 our assertion wherein it is only said that the Scripture is the rule of faith to a right discerner which is granted by the Arguer in the next reason It is Regula regulativa to all apt and meet to decide all controversies if men have ears to hear what the Spirit saith to the Churches if it be not Regula regulans to some who are ignorant and unstable Vitium ost in Organo the fault is in the Organ It is ill argued to say the Sun shineth not because blind men see it not Secondly They who cannot read the Scriptures An. 2. can hear them read and it is more easie for dark ignorant ones to hear the word read and explained in their own language then to travel from Scotland to Rome to hear the sentence of the Pope for they could not understand the language in which it is delivered they cannot travel through their decretals and acts They know not if it be a lawful Pope who pronounceth the sentence And by their Confessours here they may be and are deceived Thirdly It is the priviledge and promise An. 3. of God to open the heart to enlighten the eyes by the word read and preached but no where hath the word of man this prerogative See Is 32. 3. 4. and Is 35. 5. 6. 7. 8. These are Gospel
prophecies The Roman Trash may well make seeing men blind but will never make blind men see the right way Fourthly We do not deny ministeriall An. 4. helps to unlettered people for such are commanded Heb. 13. 7. and 17. provided alwayes their faith be resolved into the word of God at least interpretative virtualiter What ever means be used this milk of the Word is the authentick instrument which begetteth faith and it must be received not as the word of man albeit the treasure be in earthen vessels and the milk in a wooden pape The difference of assent betwixt the learned and the unlearned is only accidental and modal the one being more express then the other we Catechise and instruct the ignorant and require them to hear the Church and follow their guides so far as they follow Christ 1. Cor. 11. 1. we hold forth coâ—munia fidei motiva interna 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 inward testimonies the common motives of faith reasons and testimonies of old and late and what ever may help their edification but we dare not lead them from the Scripture to men neither will the interpretation of the Scripture permit us to admit of an other determiner And it may be wel enough known by them who understand these languages that these Greek and Hebrew words do thus signifie as they are translated without the help of an infallible decree of Pope or Council thereanent Without this also GODS word can discover it self to be from GOD as hath been shewed already Reason 5. Reading of the Scripture with the privat spirit and taking it up as every one Pa. Rea. 5 thinketh maketh all the controversies in Christendom daily multiplying both Heresies and sects Luther no sooner swerved from the Church and denyed her authority but as soon he broached this principle That every man might take the Bible follow that interpretation which after due diligence used he thought best whereupon preseÌ„tly did spring up an incredible number of different sects Antimonâ—ans Osiandrians Majorists Synergists c. Now hear what Luther himself said of Calvins heresie Tom. 7. fol. 380. I scarce ever read saith he of a more deformed heresie which presently in the beginning was divided into such variety of sects as so many Toads and such disagreement of opinions not one like to another You see then how the word cannot be the determiner of faith which all these sects take with you for their rule yet alone will never agree â—hem As for that you say the scripture hath Divine authority Heavenly majestie and maketh Spiritual impressions on the soul all this I grant if once a man know or believe it to be the word of GOD. Answer First All this is answered to the fourth or fifth question and should not be Pro. An. 1 brought in here yet passing the digression and informality which I hope the Reader cannot impute to me the Defender I answer to the 5. Reason the Scriptures in the Primitive Church were published â—o all this your own Azâ—â—iâ—s confesseth Iust mor. p. 1. lib 8. c. 26. â—he Scriptures in the Primitive Church were to be published throughout all Nations and therefore made common in the most famouâ— languages In Hierom and Chrysostoms dayes the ley people were exercised in reading the Scriptures Espencaeus saith Comment on Tit. 3. 2. it is manifest by the Apostles doctrine Col. 3. 16. and by the practise of the Church that the publies use of reading the scriptures was then permitted to the people The Council of Nice decreed saith Agrippa that no Chriâ—tian shoulâ—â—e without a Bible Augustin alloweth de Doct. Christi the use of scriptures to all for he saith they are not so hard but every one by his use making of them may attain to so much knowledge of them as may further him in his salvation Chrysost hom 3. de Lizaro exhorts all men and women yea Tradsmen to get Bibles Now I pray you to what purpose if they dare not search for the sense of them Secondly It is denyed that when privat Pro. An. 2 men search the Scriptures this is an act of a privat spirit †It may be privat respectupersonae which is publick rationâ— modi medii è contra for such may pray and have the spirit of grace and supplication poured forth on them according to the promise Zach. 12. 10. and none call that a privat spirit so they may interpret Scripture by Scripture and have the gift of it Hear your own Gerson primâ— part de ex doct Si aliquis non authorizatus sit excellenter in sacra scriptura eruditus plus credendum est ejus assertioni quam Papae declarationi i. e. If any not ordained be well instructed in the holy Scriptures his assertion is more to be believed then the Popes declaration Secondly Our Divines distinguish well three sorts of interpreters the first is extraordinar and miraculous 1. Cor. 12. 30. The second is ordinar and ministerial 1. Cor. 14. 32. The spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets The third is of privat persons who are commanded to â—ry the spirits and are commended for so â—â—ing Aâ—t 8. 28. 29. Aâ—t 17. 11. The first kynd of interpretation is gone the two next are in use as yet but the one is subservient to the other Thirdly â—he different sects that lay claim to Scripture cannot deprive us of the priviledge to search it and make use of it Will any man approve this argument Meat and drink is abused by some therefore none should eat or drink If the matter be indifferent and subject to abuse then we are to restrain our selves of liberty in the use of that in different thing Vâ—tandum estlicituÌ„ non necessâ—riuÌ„ propter vicinitatem illiâ—â—ti Aug. de câ—v Dei lib. 15. But when it is necessar necessitate precepti medii by necessity of precept and mean who can forbid the use of a necessar mean Now it is most necessar to improve the Scriptures by reading understanding application meditation and blessed is he who doth so day and night sitting or standing Deâ—t 6. 6. It is absurd to say â—lbeit Luther and Calvin did differ in some points that he fathered the sects of Germany on Calvin who was as free of Munster malady as the man unborn and was malleus haereticorum as his learned writtings testifie aboundantly In that place cited he speaketh of the swarms of sects which were indeed monstrous like at that time but never imputed it to the use making of Scripture for then he would not have understood himself nor could he blame Calvin for it upon that account seeing it was his own tenet Now Reader stay and impartially consider the weaknes and impertinency of these 5 reasons why our faith should not be resolved into the Scriptures and determined by them For the sume of all is thus concluded The word of GOD is not wel understood by some is evil translated by others and
but Aristocratical Under the New Testament the Lord appointed no visible Monarch on earth to be an officer in his church for our last appeal in dubious cases is regulated by that well known Scripture Matth. 18. 17. If he will See Bish Laud. againstâ— Fisher not hear the church let him be to thee as a publican Now it is absurd to say that this should be the sense of it tell the Pope for in no language the word Church can signifie a visible Monarch Secondly The council of Jerusalem maketh not for this for not only proceed they upon Scripture grounds but although they were infallible men yet none of them took the Papal way and the government was not Monarchical It seemed good to the holy Ghost and us Thirdly Church power is Ministerial Matth. 20. 25. 26. 2. Cor. 1. 24. 1. Pet. 5. 3. but Monarchy is Magisterial therefore it agreeth not with church power And when Papists reason for the power of the church and mention councils the argument may be thus propounded church officers councils have been appointed to rule and order the affairs of the house of God Ergo they may do what they will and who can say unto them what dost thou I deny the consequence Ergo the Pope is one of these officers it is absolutly refused And this is summa totalis of the prolix answer to the fourth question which may be taken away with a word Ergo if the word make not for them theâ— they may betake themselves to their own traditions and rule by them That is denyed also by us And suppose they should give the Law to their own Vassals will it therefore follow that they empire it over the whole Christian-church And seeing all churches are bound to a rule can any be infallible which have need of a rule When you make the Pope your church do ye not build your faith on him Is this like the foundation Eph. 2. 20. What is this but to make your faith humane And is it not absurd to say that Alexander the siâ—â—h Pope Iohn 22. in the cathedra were infallible as the Prophets and Apostles in dyting Scripture they cannot blush who speak so Fifthly As for the fifth particular viz. That place of Augustin cont ep fund cap. 5. I would not have believed the Scripture Pro. An. 5 unless the authority of the church had moved me Our Divines have answered fully long ago so it is a threed bare argument for he speaketh not there concerning the formal reason why Scripture is believed but concerning the mean and motive by which intrants are brought at first to the knowledge of the Scripture I mean the consused knowledge of the Scripture as when a man delivereth a letter he may tell from whom it is but the faith of it is from the subscription So here then by the church he understandeth not the church or Pope of Rome but the Primitive-church of the faithful which did hear see Christ and his Apostles So saith Durand †Dur lib. dist 24. qu. 1. he had to do with the Manichees who would make him believe their Gospel No saith he the testimony of those who did see with their eyes hear with their ears and handle the word of life is to be preferred to your assertion and this is a motive which made me at first quite Manichism and close with the Gospel of Christ so speaketh Melchior Canus lib. 2. de loc cap. 8. therefore it maketh nothing for the imperious supremacie of the Pope or Church in matters of faith fot there is a difference between coÌ„muma motivafidei and formalis ratio credendi See learned and perspicuous Dr. Barron against Turnebul Tract 4. pag. 188. Who hath unanswerably demonstrated this truth and so interpreteth these words of Augustin The testimony of the church is a principle inductive and a motive to new intrants to read hear and consider the holy Scriptures and it produceth only an humane faith the inward testimony of the holy Spirit is the principle effective of divine faith and the Scriptures themselves are the formal reason and terminative principle whereinto divine faith is resolved as a building upon its foundation Eph. 2. 20. To conclude this answer We judge that the pure Gospel Church is and should be the pronouncer of divine sentence from the Scripture that the authority of Councils should be inrerposed for making men willing and obedient to the divine law so should the Magistrat concurre in his station for that effect But the church of Rome is not pure nor like that which once it was in the Apostle Paul his time and at no time could she be called the Universal church far less now Albeit then her faith was spoken of throughout all the world Is this a good argument the faith of the Church of Brittain is mentioned throughout all the reformed churches of Transylvania Hungaria Polland Germany Bohaemia Flanders France and Helveâ—ia therefore it is the Universal-church no we claim no more but to be a Sister church to these in the confession of faith according to the Scriptures †Alb. Pighius lib. 6. Eccl. hierarc cap. 3. and all together make up the Universal-church And any one of these is preferable to the church at Rome as it is now corrupted and apostatized Will ye hear Albertus Pighius Quis unquam per Romanam Ecclesiam intellexit universalem who ever did by the Roman Church understand the Church universal Why do ye then speak so and ambitiously empire it over all the world Question fifth Seeing no Scripture is of Pa. Qu. 5 privat interpretation 2. Pet. 1. 20. should privat men take upon them to interpret the same Answer The sense of that text is no scripture Pro. An. is the indytment of a privat spirit but proceedeth from the holy Ghost for it followeth holy men of GOD spake as they were moved by the holie Ghost and it came not of old by the will of men Therefore it is no ways to be thought that privat men should be barred from searching the Scripture seeing Christ Jesus commanded the contrar Io. 5. 39. This was spoken to a whole multitude of persecuting Jews The word is the sword of the spirit Eph. 6. 17. should any privat man be disarmed amongst his foes And blessed is he whither privat or publict who meditateth in the law of the Lord day and night Ps 1. Reply In your fifth answer you grant with the Apostle that no prophecie of the Scripture Pa. Rep. is of any privat interpretation so should you grant also that the Scriptures cannot be rightly expounded of every privat spirit and fancie of the vulgar Reader but by the same spirit wherewith they were writren which resolveth in the Church And I am very confident no learned or wise Protestant will allow any privat man to expound scripture against the common consent of the whole Catholick Church wherein they were immediatly before But you insist that it is
not to be thought that privat mâ—n should be barred from searching the scripture seeing it is contrar to that text John 5. 39. where if by searching the Scripture you mean the reading and interpretation of it that cannot be the sense of it For the Apostle Paul saith 1. Cor. 12. GOD hath set in the Church Prophets Apostles Doctors c. Then he addeth are all Apostles are all Prophets are all Doctors do all interpret Then this doth not belong to every man to read and interpret Scripture but to search the deep meaning and sense thereof from the Doctors of the Church For the Jews did search the scripture reading and hearing it read in their Synagogues and yet did deny Christ to be the Messiah which scripture doth clearly testifie Even as Protestants do read Scripture and in it the real presence the power to forgive sins granted to men justification by faith and good works anointing the sick virginity preferred to marriage and yet deny all this Wherefore as Christ exhorteth the Jews to do it with greater reflection and attention not superficially turning and shuffling it over as Protestants do so do I exhort them The word is the sword of the spirit upon which you inferre should any privat man be disarmed amongst his soes So let me tell you that the Apostle calling it a sword sheweth that it should not be put into a mad mans hand or in the hand of a fool i. e. Poor ignorants who as Peter saith wrest it to their own destruction and yet this is your consequence if it should be granted to all privat men Children and fools get not arms amongst their foes wherewith they might rather wrong themselves then their enemies but are under the protection of their Paedagogues and attendants And so the ignorant should not easily handle the sword of the word being ignorant and only capable of the letter but should receive the sense thereof from the Church and her Pastors that it may be to them an arme of defence Pro. Duply 1 Answer first All this is answered fully in the return of the first question to which place I referre the Reader lest I make idle repetition If the rule of right reasoning had been observed nothing of this ought to have come in formerly but here in its own proper place I distinguished betwixt privat men and privat interpretations then betwixt the extraordinar gift of interpreting and the ordinar Thirdly Betwixt the priviledge and the exercise Privat men have the priviledge to search the Scriptures you say it should be by no other then doctors if that be true then the Lord Jesus did not direct the people who heard him to use prayer and meditation for knowing the Scriptures but to go to their rulers Scribes and Pharisees who did what they could to make the Scriptures testifie against him and all his I appeal to the conscience or reason of any if this exposition on the place can hold water Or if an indvidual act such as this being performed by another is an obedience to a command If this exposition be good then when the Lord pronounceth the man blessed who meditats in the Law day and night the sense of it must be if his Pastors do it for him it is enough Who will admit this But the one is as true as the other Secondly You contradict your self for once you say that privat men should not interpret Pro. An. 2 Scripture but take it from the mouth of the church then immediatly you exhort them to do it not superficially but with attention and we exhort to no more Thirdly You make all the people who are Pro. An. 3 privat men mad fools and Children by your coÌ„parison in whose hand the word of GOD should not be put then it must be taken from them and how agreeth this with the former exhortation What if this were told to the Kings and Queens who are Popâ—sh By the testimony of your doctors ye are all de clared unfit to rule others for mad men fools children caÌ„not govern In effect ye guide theÌ„ as such in divine matters for ye muzle and blindfold the people all this passeth under the notion of Paedagogy But sad is the case of such pupils â—f they knew what belonged to their peace Let ignorants be catechised and trained in the ways of GOD this may make them more discerning of the sense and meaning of the word of God Seneca telleth Coenant nobiscum quidam quia sunt docti alii ut sint doâ—li Some men suppe with us because they are learned others that they may be learned The testimonies of the Lord make wise the simple should they then be deprived of them Question sixth Ye agree not about the Pa. Qu. 6 rule for some cast at the Epistle of James others receive it Answer None of the pure reformed do Pro. Qu. so it was only rejected by some Lutherians in which we do not owne them Secondly The number of Scripture books is not the question but whither these mantained by all be the rule of saith Seeing all men are murable creatures and at their best state vanity Popes clash with Popes Councils with Councils Pulpits with Pulpits let any judge whither it be safest that the revealed will of God be our rule or the dictats of self contradicting men Reply You say none of these pure reformed Pa. Reply reject the Epistle of James and you disclaime the Lutherians who do so and they you for I am confident they will acknowledge none for pure reformers who take an Epistle for scripture which they hold to be none Then you say the number of Scripture books is not the question Sir you move questions as you please but hear Mr. Hooker one of your most learned Protestants lib. 1. Eccl. pol. Sect. 14. pag. 36. of these things necessar saith he the very chief is to know what books we esteem holy which is impossible for it self to teach Apply this to your only determiner of faith in your first answer And truely I think this should be the first question of all to the pure reformed according to the pure word of God as you cal them which are the books of the pure word of GOD Now if you answer these are mantained by all which you make the rule of faith how few books of Scripture shal be this rule if any at all For there be few or none whereof some have not doubted or flatly denyed Saint Augustin contra Faustum Manichaeum and lib. de mor. Eccl. cap. 1. Saith the Manichees did deny Moses and the Prophets the Jews did deny the New Testament What books of Scripture are mantained by all For by that you make the consent of all judge of canonical Scripture how then can you disclaim tradition and say immediatly after men are mutable creatures and at their best state vanity Seeing upon the consent of men ye take up your rule of faith and number of Scripture books I know other Protestants
pâ—â—loineth honour from the Lord and giveth it to others beside him as adultery giveth conjugal benevolence to others beside the husband or wife Idolum saith Isiodorus in suis Origin lib. 8. cap. 11. Est simulachrum quod humana effigie factum consecratum est That is an Idol which is made like a man and consecrated for worship So the exhibition of Religious worship to that is Idolatrie according to him Aug. epist. 119. ad Jan. saith in primo praecepto prohibetur coli aliqua in sigmentis hominum DEI similitudo quia nulla imago ejus coli debet nisi illa quae hoc est quod ipse nec pro illo aut cum illo In the first Command where he taketh in the second to us every similitude of GOD is forbidden to be worshiped because nothing should be woâ—shiped with him or for him but He himself alone Then according to him worship given to any Image made with hands not being God is Idolatrie Then it will follow first that the Gentiles did not alwayes worship a false GOD as ye shal afterwards hear And next that the Images representing â—he true God worshiped by them were Idols So that worship must be Idolatrie wâ—erever it is The Adulterie of a Pagan and a Christian are one So the Idolatrie of the one and the other cannot be diverse whatever difference may be otherwise amongst them Gerson sayeth Varietas imaginum plurimâ—s ad idololatriam pervertit Thereby implying that statue worship as practised by Romanists was Idolatrie Josephus a Jew con Appio saith it is abominable to place any Image in the temple of God and declaimeth against Pilat for intending the like It is known how averse the Jewes after the captivitie were from this way whatever pollutions formerly they committed Religious worship rendered to Images was detested by them and reckoned Idolatrous Varro a heathen as he is cited by Aug. lib. 4. de civit Dei sayeth that at Rome in the beginning fuit purior Dei cultus sine simulachris centum septuaginta annis Then by the twilight of Pagans the worship is polluted which is by Images And in Pagan Rome it was free of that 170. years Afterwards they took in Images and multiplyed their Gods so were they given up as the Apostle telleth Rom. 1. 23. By all these it is evident that Idolatrie is religious worship given to that which is not GOD. Idolatry Superstition and Will-worship may be thus distinguished Superstition is according to the Etymolygie of the word supra statutum and may be in many cases where there be no worship at all As when men are afraid of the signs in Heaven Jer. 10. 1. 2. If they meet such a foot in the morning if people be affrighted with dreams vain divinations as the falling of salt c. And be charmed from dependance by faith on the word of GOD. That is superstition which ordinarily prophecieth according to their sentiments all the fears they imagine The Papists would willingly take with superstition if we make Scripture the sole rule of faith and manners In this they are not unlike some Witches who will acknowledge when pannelled gross crims such as adultery drunkenness swearing Sabbath breaking that they may be thought the more ingenuous in denying Witch-chraft Bell. lib. 2. de Imag. cap. 8. saith no less Non est tam certum an imagines DEI sanctae Trinitatis sint faciendae in Ecclesia It is not so certain whither the Images of GOD and the holy Trinity should be made in the Church And he thinketh that worship given to these to be founded only upon opinion Therefore he must acknowledge it at least to be superstition Will worship is where there is no statute terminating it As the worshipping of Angels Col. 2. and they go away from it with this return who hath required it at your hands Thus all Idolatrie is superstition and Will-worship For the Apostle Acts 17. calleth the Athenian worship such and maketh use of a general smooth word to dispose them the more for hearing or because it may be there was no Image there but an Altar to the unknown God Yet all superstition and will-worship is not Idolatrie although all of them are damnable Ezek. 43. 8. and religious worship should not be ex arbitrio humano sed imperio divino †Tertull de Jejunio cap. 13. in vain do they worship me Matth. 15. 9. saith our Lord who do so There be no difference in scripture betwixt a consecrated Image and an Idol If an image terminat worship make it the brazen Serpent it is an Idol And that sculptile forbidden in the second Command the Hebrew word signifying it is Pesel which is ordinarily rendered by the 70. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Deut. 4. 16. and in the 4. of the Judges the word is twice rendered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is a name giveÌ„ to paga idols Rom. 1 2 3 the image of the beast Re. 13. 14 is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the worship whereof no Christian can deny to be idolatrie Image in Latine is quasi imitago and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is ordinarily tendered simulachrum imago Hippocrates Aph. 18. calleth the body of a man without the soul Idolum The truth of this causeth Lorinus confess that apud profanos authâ—res i. e. Criticks and Humanists 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aeque late patent si latinitate utraque daretur eadem est significatio idoli iconis Sed apud Ecclesiasticos i. e. Popish writters it is not So now let any reasonable man judge whither byassed Papists or learned Criticks not involved in the controversie can give the soundest sense of these words And seeing the Hebrew signifying both is one if it be safe to hazard Salvation upon a distinction meerly nominal without a sure ground of Scripture or reason 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in scripture and amongst Humanists are promiscuously taken for the Hebrew word Gnabad is indifferently taken and signifieth service wâ—ich is rendered by the 70. interpreters sometimes by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sometimes by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For instance Daniel 6. 20. the speach of the King Darius to Daniel is thus tendered by the 70. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Daniel servant of the living GOD is the Lord whom thou servest constantly able to deliver thee from the Lyons In one verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are taken for one And it is ordinar in the Old Testament to render the word Gnabad by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yea more in it self the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 coming from dal signifieth the most submisse service so it is absurd to say it belongeth to Saints and not to GOD whom we should most humbly serve And in the New Testament in more then 40. several places as Pasor proveth fully these
all must say Enter not into judgement with thy servant for in thy sight no flesh living â—â—n be justified Psalm 143. 2. And the Church must confess that all her righteousness is ragged and as a menstruous cloath Reply In your thirteenth Section you denying Papists Reply that we are justified by faith and works do both contradict scripture and your self It in the Epistle of St. James chap. 2. verse 20. 24. You see then how by works a man is justified and not by faith only No wonder after this ye contradict your self when you grant that faith is justifying or made justified by works For what is it to say that works justify faith But that faith without works is not justifying And so that faith justifyeth not all or no other way then as it is decompanied with good workes as two conjunct causes For as the Philosopher saith causa causae est causa causati But what needeth any reasoning if this place be not clear to a Minister what it clear to ignorants in all the scripture Wherefore ye had done better to reject the Epistle of James with Luther then to acknowledge it for scripture to deny that we are justified by faith and works the two parts of Christian dutie being belief and life Yet to shew that the place of St. James is not to be taken according to the letter you cite three passagâ—â— excluding workes of the written law from justifying but not excluding workes of grace and the Gospel The first whereof expoundeth the rest and St. Augustin them all de fide operib cap. 14. saying St. Paul speaketh of the workes of Abraham in so much as they proceed from the law excluding the spirit and grace of Christ Then you say neither can any good work be wrought by us till we are justified for how can an evil tree bring forth good fruit To which Question I answer with our Saviour in the Gospel asking how a good tree can bring forth evil fruit as David committing adulterie For if you understood the one you may easilie understand the other Which if you do not go to the school and learn the distinction betwixt simpliciter and secundum quid betwixt good and evil simplie and in part For as there be few so good but they do some evil so there be few so bad but they do some good being assisted by GODS actual grace albeit they want sanctifying grace Yea very good actions may be done with some little imperfection which maketh the Prophet compare our righteousness to a menstruous cloath Duply You are like to your self all along in this reflection for I cannot call it a return Prote ∣ stants Duply seeing you have a flourish of fectless words for catching women and children but do not touch the arguments proposed for justification by faith without the workes of the law My first argument was this That the Apostle Paul saith we are justified by faith without the workes of law therefore not by them You say he meaneth not of workes of grace What then Of sinful workes before Coversion And is it indeed like that sinful workes can be called by the Apostle workeâ— of the law seeing these are transgressions of the law Or that the justitiaries amongst the Romans in the dayes of the Apostle were so gross as to assert that sinful workes justifie a man which condemn him Secondly you say that justification by faith contradicteth scripture James 2. 24. which place I explained and reconciled with the 4. of the Romanes and all you say to that is that I contradict my self I said workes justifie faith for my faith is known by my works to my self and others But that will nor say that workes and faith justifie the man So I clash not with my self here And for your Maxime causa causae est causa causati If I understand this you contradict your self in the application of it for faith being the cause of workes and justifying the man workes are the effect of justificatâ—on not the cause of it Hence the Apostle James saith shew me thy faith by thy workes O man For it cannot be showen without workes v. 18. Albeit we say that faith alone justifieth yet that Fides sola in approhendendo non est solitaria My next argument was that a man must be justified before he can work well therefore workes are not the cause of justification I hope you will not say that the effect is antecedent to its cause if you have read Ramus Logick And that a man must be justified before he can work well I prove thus He must be sanctified Ergo c. a corrupt tret cannot bring forth good fruit Matth. 7. 18. Ere you have not something to say to this you close with Pelagius for a defence and speak non-sense For you say that you answer with our Saviour by a distinction of that which is simply such and secundum quid In what part of the Gospel is this Logick to be found For it is clear from the verse above cited that our Saviour denyeth simply the thing so he granteth it not secundum quid Some good acts you say may be done by evil men being assisted by actual grace I would know if actual grace can be in exercise where habitual grace is not at all then if men habitually evil in an unconverted state can do any thing well That something materially good may be done by them as well as sin may be committed by the regenerated I doubt not but that they can do ought upon a good principle for a good end by a good morive I deny it simply Now if they be not such they cannot justifie a mâ—n For nullum agens potest agere extra Spharâ—m suae activitatis Till he be sanctified he cannot be be such till he be justified he cannot be sanctified Workes justifie no more the man then the fruit maketh the tree good My third Reason you leave untouched which was this that the present time requireth all our work Ergo it cannot justifie us for bygones or the future What is now debituns cannot pay my bygone debt nor free me for the time to come And you grant all I have said in the fourth that our best workes are unperfect and so cannot hold water before the Tribunal of GOD. I am glade to hear you grant so much for then where will workes of supererogation and merit appear For further clearing of our Doctrine of Justification take notice the Papists and we thus differ First They say there is a two fold justification one whereby a mâ—n unjust is made just for attaining this there must be previous dispositions by the acts of faith fear hope love whch fit the man for his justification some of them terme this Meritum congrui others say tâ—at this is the free gift of GOD not deserved by workes The second Justification is that whereby â— man being just is made more just this they say is merited by their workes and proceedeth
à DEO arbitrio simul both from free will and GOD. So Molina Here they confound justification and sanctification And by this way we are not compleetly justified till we die ere the work of sanctification be perfected fully we must be Saints in light Secondly That free gift of grace is parted betwixt GOD and free-will if this Doctrine hold For Bellarmin saith we co-operat with GOD in justification it self and the beginning of faith So by it that emphatick place Rom. 8. 34. cannot be interpreted aright it is GOD who justifieth If man had no part nor hand in the Creation how can he have it in the first Conversion seeing that is a new Creation Thirdly They make the formal cause of justification inherent righteousness which is ragged by their own confession as appeareth from this reflecter Then it is no fit covering for our nakedness for it self needeth a covering Can it satisfie divine justice being so imperfect Augustin telleth the contrar on Psalm 42. Whosoever liveth here albeit he live righteously if that righteousness be strictly judged wo to hâ—m Fourthly It is not safe nor comfortable for ourselves That same Father telleth us again de bono perseverantiae cap. 6. â—e live more safely when we attribute all to God wholly then when we commit our selves partly to GOD partly to our selves Now this inherent righteousness as put on in the second justification is the birâ—h of merits and free-will say all Papists then positively and mostly thy own The merits of Christ are a far off cause causa formalis immediata is thy own righteousness the consideration of this made Bellarmin confess de justif lib. 5. cap. 7. tutissimum est in sola DEI misericordia conquiescere It is safest to repose on the mercy of GOD not on thy own righteousness A dying Christian seriouâ— about salvation will indeed find it safest and surest We again mantain that a converted man is under previous law work of conviction contrition humiliation and the fallow ground of the heart is thus prepared and broken up by the plowing of the Word but a man may come this length and go no further the dispositions have not alwayes a necessar connexion with that new birth Nor is the seed of faith still sown in such as are under the spirit of bondage He who â—asteth of these powers may fall away There be a relative difference between these acts in the Elect and others Secondly When faith the free gift of GOD Phil. 1. 29. is sown into the heaâ—t and planted there as it is native to the child to seek the breasts so it leaueth and leadeth the man in its first motion to the righteousness of Jesus a Mediator who is The Lord our righteousness Jer. 23. 6. and he maketh mention of his righteousness even of his only The Lord hath so appointed it he is made of GOD to us righteousness 1. Cor. 130. faith apprehendeth that as the ship-broken man doth a plank whereby he commeth to land by that we are justified before GOD. Inherent graces cannot satisfie the justice of GOD nor make perfect obedience to the law nor pay the penalty which it requireth But Mediatory righteousness can do all this So the causes of justification are these the final cause is the glory of GOD and mans salvation The efficient the favour mercy and good will of GOD. The meritorious the obedience of Jesus Christ The formal the imputed righteousness of that blessed Mediator The instrumental cause or condition as some word it is faith Rom. 3. 24. 25. so we are justified by faith alone as Abraham was before GOD and this giveth glory to GOD Rom. 4. dethroneth the boasting of men and is the sure safe scripture way Now when we say that faith alone justifieth by laying hold on his righteousnes and applying it we still hold that faith which justifieth to be pregnant with good workes such as love heart-cleansing new obedience patience zeal and other fruits of the spirit This adversaries deny not to us Bellarmin doth us this much right for he acknowledgeth that we hold good workes to be necessar to the justified Non necessitate efficientiae sed prasentiae So they justifie our faith to ourselves and others but faith justifieth the man and workes have no place in that act We do not deny that good workes have room and are necessarie for working out of our salvation they are via regâ—â— but in the point of Justification they are excluded Our justification is the Lords act of gracious absolution tendred to us through Christ When we receive the sentence faith the hand of the soul layeth only hold of it And it is not said in Scripture love in his blood or patience or real in it but faith in his blood by which we are justified cloathed and covered Remission and righteousness commeth in this way This animateth all our graces and we hold justification and salvation of free grace Ephes 2. 8. 9. Fourteenthly You set up free will in faln man almost as it was under the Covenant of § 14. Iust workes in the state of innocencie and do attribute Election partly to that Idol More that without Christ we may merit congruously and naturally dispose our souls for grace But the Scripture saith Rom. 11. 6. Election is meerly of grace and if by grace then it is no more of workes otherwise grace were no more grace but if it be of workes then it is no more grace otherwise workes were no more workes Nay We cannot of our selves as of our selves think a good thought 2. Cor. 3. 5. and without Christ we can do nothing Iohn 15. 5. being by nature children of wrath dead in sins and trespasses Ye say we set up free will in faln man as it was in the state of Innocencie wheâ—eas we Papist Reply put great distinction betwixt free will in these two states as you may see in our School Divines yet Christ by his grace hath so set it up that with the same grace a man may choose to do good and refuse to do evil Both Scripture and Fathers are clear for this Scripture Deut. 30. 19. I have set before you life and death blessing and cursing therefore choose life that both thou and thy seed may live And 1. Cor. 7. 37. He who hath determined in his heart not having necessitie but having power of his own will to keep his Virgin Is not here free will asserted necessitie clearly excluded How then can you call it an Idol or if a man have not free will wherefore sorveth preaching and exhortation to perswade a man to that which is not in his power Protestants say there is no good action in the power of a man Why then do they perswade Roman-Cathâ—licks to turn Protestant seeing Conversion being a most holy and good work is nor in our power or free-will Or how could it stand with GODS wisdom to command men what they could not do Or with his justice to condemn
and without Christ can do nothing Iohn 15 5. If you say more speak it out for it will be plain Pelagianism Exhorrations and communications are means to make us willing and obedient It is not in our power to think a good thought as of our selves dare you deny this Why then fall you fondly on us speaking with the Scripture Luke 17. 10. By grace we are saved freely through faith and eternal life is the gift of GOD the reward is a free remuneration and may be without our merits we grant free-will in Augustins sense and Jansenius proveth that this is true liberty by arguments which were never yet answered But we do disclaim Jesuitical indifferencie because it taketh away divire providence the power of grace and setteâ—h up anti-providences from the will of man Because we sin willingly who can deny that we are punished justly Neither take we the Scripture Catalogue from the Iewes but make use of reason testimonies from old Writters universal consent to be a porch for eâ—trie to the knowledge of the numerick controversie and how can you say so of our Catalogue seeing we mantain no book to be Scripture but such as ye allow And are ye not helped by the Jewes herein as wel as we Only we lay that the authority of the Scripture dependeth not on humane testimonie as upon its principal foundation nor yet upon unwritten tradition because divine faith must be begotten by a divine testimonie And we believe the Scriptures authority and truth side lâ—â—ina because the Lord hath spoken it In this true faith must be finally resolved else it is not divine It is a calumny to say we patch the Word seeing we make Scripture the only rule of our faith There be none in the Christian Church who adde such patches to the word of GOD as ye Our Reformation had authority both from Heaven and men on earth The Lawes of the Land can restifie this which are yet in vigor for it and against you And there may be new light in time of darkness which was formerly dimmed or put out which light is the good old light proceeding from the Father of lights If ye condemned this the world should have still continued Arrian when it was over-clouded with it and all Reformation even the Scripture one is unlawful see you not your absurdity here Yea it was prophesied Dan. 12. 4. that in the latter times knowledge should encrease and light also be extended but light without verity deserveth not the name Privat men have the liberty of discerning allowed to them Acts 17. 11. 1. Io. 4. 1. Yea such may have publict spirits and be called to publict employments But what you mean by this I conceive not For the Gospel worship which we mantain hath the consent of all the Scriptures Churches and primitive Fathers as is formerly proved to the full We wish the hearts of all our Pastors may be established by grace that they may be subjected to him who hath the government on his shoulder and by their faith working by love glorifie the chief Shepheard of the stock We will not recriminat ralling for railing but it were easie to shew Ye have a Church composed state-wayes Your policie devouâ—eth all pâ—â—ty Your superstitious vowes against marraâ—ge all chastity Your impeaching of the Scriptures all divine verity Your blind allegiance to the Pope all loyalty Your superstitious buskings all puritie Your worship in an unknown tongue all fervencie Your addition to the one Sacrament and mutitation of the other all sincerity Your universal infallible supremacie all primitive antiquity It is not long since this Reply came to my hand at the first view whereof I intended to take in and discuss arguments proposed by Dr. Vane in that Pamphlet entituled The lost sheep found And these contained in another of the same kind called Presbytries tryall And to survey the other two entituled The Touchstone and Fâ—at lux But finding the substance of all these in this reflecter and that he hath little of his own but maketh malt for the most of their barley by answering this all the foure are macerially answered which a discerning Reader will find to be true Now to close I obtest all who read this Vindication of the reformed Religion to consider the cause seriously without partialitie pride passion prejudice Remember that Iames 2. 1. Have not the faith of our Lord Iesus with respect of persons And the spirit of truth lead you into all truth The spirit of errour and lies be rebuked and resisted by the Lord That a pure offering may be offered to Him from the rising of the Sun to the going down thereof FINIS A POSTSCRIPT Containing an Advertisement and Advice to the Merchants of DVNDIE who travell abroad that they be not ensnared with the fopperies of Poperie AFter the writting of this VINDICATION I judged it expedient to give this word of Advertisement and Advice to such as be called by their affairs to negotiaâ— in Countreys where the Popish worship is only professed and mantained Because many travellers return home from these places as that French fool came back from Rome who passing through Ravenna least he should return empty to his friends gathered in that Forrest a multitude of bees and flees which being closed into a cloath bagge he poured forth amongst his relatives to their prejudice and offence And all they gained by his voyage was made up of stings and buzings So when travellerâ— return from forrain Nations either Neutral Nullisidians or leavened with Popish saperstition what is their purchase Nothing that can edifie any Will ever practical Atheism Gallioeâ— temper or tampering betwixt truth and errour advantage a man at the long runne Not at all These will sting like a serpent more then themselves a wound and dishonour may they have by it but nothing else The hazard which some Travellers tunne cannot be unknown to you For the man who in this City hath become Popish and stingeth some is thought by all that know him to have received the first dye thereof abroad when he travelled thither And although the flecks of that pestiferous malady broke nor forth immediatly after his return till the Carduns Maledictus of prejudice against some fellow Citizens made them appear yet there probably he was first infected Now if he who was gifted above many Merchants catched so sore a back-ward fall abroad that he hath now turned his back on that Church wherein he was born and iostered Have ye not reason with full purpose of heart to cleave to the truth of GOD which can only set you free It is not for nought that our Saviour said to his Disciples Luke 17. 32. Remember Lots wife It is certain that the Church of SCOTLAND is a great eye-sore to Papists and they craftily lay snareâ— to seduce her members at home and abroad Their hooks are feathered with variety of colours and the Convent at Rome de Propagan fide furnisheth many Emissaries who
prophecie it vvill make against the Pope of Rome vvho giveth himself out for sole Bishop and all under him his Vicars onlie This is clear from the historie of the Trent Council lib. 7. pag. 599. Father Simon the Florentine there speaketh after the same tenour When it is demanded whither any Bishop be Jure Divino One must answer affirmativelie One onlie the Successour of Peter And thus the famous saying of Cyprian must be expounded there is but one Bishoprick and every Bishop holdeth a part thereof in solidum otherwise it cannot bâ—e defended that the government of the Church is the most perfect of all that is Monarchical but must necessarlie â—all into an Oligarchie All the Popes Prelats did speak then the same language will not this make him solus Episcopus so that in Estius sense he must be concluded to be Rex superbiae because he is sole universal Bishop The primitive Fathers studied modestie charitie humilitie But Head of the whole Church Prince of Priests infallible universal Monarch were names unknown to them Yet this is the Popes motto summarei the great foundation sine qua corruit Ecclesia saith Bellarmin in the forecited place Further worship in an unknown tongue was not heard in the Church till it was commanded by Witalianus in the 7. Cent. saith Platina and Aquinas on the 1. Cor. 14. telleth that the worship in the primitive Church was performed in the vulgar language The mutilation of the Sacrament of the Supper by withholding the cup froÌ„ the people was unknown to ant quitie For Valentia de legitimo usâ— Eucharistiae cap. 10. saith that the receiving of the Sacrament under one kind came into the Church by no decree but by the custom of the people not long before the Council of Constance at which time the custom was made a law The with-holding Scripture from people was detested in the primitive Church Was it not decreed in the Council of Nice saith Agrippa that no Christian should be without a Bible espcially if he could read in Augustin Chrysostom and Hieroms days the people are required to search the Scriptures according to the rule Iohn 5 39. Tutius ambulatur per Scripturas saith Aug. lib. 3. de doct Chri. cap. 28 nor by humane traditions or glosses Some names of things occurring in antiquitie are preserved in the Roman Church but it will be found that the Fathers understood them not in that sense nor made use of them as they do The nature of things new in Poperie is unanswerable to the old names as snal afterward appear By this we may perceive that Popery was not from the beginning The mysterie of iniquitie encreasing vain men set their posts beside the Lords posts their thresholds beside his Ezek. 43. 8. And making up a bodie of superstitious inventions have placed Religion in these which they hold forth to the world as eldest and have so falne out with Scripture truths that they are not ashamed to accuse them and their professours of noveltie heresie c. But be it known to all that we wil have no Religion to be called ours younger nor the Apostles and primitive Christians It shal eitheâ— be sixteen hundred years old it shal be founded on the Scripture sensed by pute antiquitie or else not outs Beside this their foistery that which is foisted poysoneth souls and filleth them with the East-wind For by their merits and mediatours they derogat from the honour of Christ and from the faith of Christians seeing he is is so precious to them who believe 1. Pet. 2. 7. It is not strange that contrar to Scripture they will deny the imputation of the righteousness of Christ Iesus to the blessed Elect and that imputed righteousness of Saints is affirmed by them to profit others and relieve them from temporal punishment As if the death and merits of the Mediatour were not of sufficient value to save us frâ—m all evil They say that no man can have certaintie of SalvatioÌ„ by faith and yet without any revelation they will canonize others as Saints Can any be more certain of the salvation of another nor his own Their doctrine concerning the Priests intention taketh away all certaintie of faith if the Priest do not seriously intend what he professeth to do there is no Sacrament no consecration no ordination And who but the Lord searcheth the heart and knoweth human intentions By making the Body of Christ now in Heaven to be corporally present in the Sacrament of the Supper when it is administred they deny many articles of the Christian Creed they strengthen the heresie of the Valentinians who said that his Bodie was phantastical not real they contradict the Scripture which calleth it the fruit of the vine after consecration Luke 22. 18. And Aug. tract 5. in Iohn who saith that the bread remaineth bread after the consecration and the Body of Christ a real Body after the Resurrection By their doctrine of Free-will they make free Grace to stand at the beck of the wil whither it shal be operative or not Yea they make providence in its acting dependent on the will For this is their tener GOD worketh because the will consenteth not e contra see Bellar de gratia libero arbitrio lib. 4. cap. 15. Will it not follow then that we should thank our will for our Conversion and intreat it to make grace efficacious and providence effectual Seeing it hath a negative voice in all these matters And what is more prejudicial to the providence and worship of GOD or to the efficacie of grace nor this tener which Aug refuteh well in his Enchrid cap 32. By invocation of Saints the worship of Reliques and the whole house of their imagerie they give the glory of the Lord to another and are reproved Is 42. 8. Yea there be many whom they invocat of whom they are not certain if either they were Saints or lived in the world Cassander who lived in communion with Rome acknowledgeth that much superstition is sostered by this way Consult â—1 Is it not then soul-damning By their distinction of mortal and venial sins by Purgatory by prayer for the dead by their absolution under so bare a degree of contrition they make people sin securely for under the name of vâ—nial sins they comprehend grievous crimes as sivearing by the wounds of Christ Per Membra Christi est venialis irreverentia si reverenter juretur nullâ—â—s videtur esse peccatum saith Valentia tom 3. disp 6. quast 7. punct 3. Legerdemaine in vendition ubi quantuns quale mutatur may be venial si materia sit levis saith Tolet. de 7. pecc cap. 49. whereas diverse measures without exception are declared abomination Pro. 20. 10. All these remedies which they apply after death make men less diligent in dutie while they live And if Purgatory be the Popes peculiar as they call it he must have little love to Souls and too much to his own gain who will not
the determiner of faith and manners First Because the chief and greatest Controversie is about scripture it â—â—lf viz What 〈…〉 scripture what not Now if it be the determiner of faith as you speak in 〈…〉 is the Catalogue of Canonical bookes 〈◊〉 How may it be proved against Luthâ—â— that St. Iames his Epistle is Canonical 〈…〉 against others that Nicodemus and S. Thomas Gospells are not Or if you reject Tobias Judith the bookes of Wisdom Ecclesiasticus and the Maccabees because the Synagogue of the Jewes did so why â—o â—ou not also deny Christ to be the Messias with them Answer This return is rather an evasion then solid reply and is satisfied in the resolution Protest Duply of the sixt Question to which in reason it ought to be referred yet seing tumultuously diverse things are here heaped together I shall sort and discuss them thus First There is no Christian Church which maketh it a Controversie at all whether scripture be the word of God so this is not the chiefest and greatest Controvesie for it is supposed amongst the principles of Christianity and if the Precognita of other science have ex terminis their own notoreiety We should not argument contra negantes principia against them who deny known principles how can this be denyed to Theology seing if we rest not on some principles we must run our selves out of breath and not know where to sist Basil †Basil on Psal 115. telleth 〈…〉 as in every science there be unqueâ—â—â—able principles which are beleeved withoâ—â—â—â—rther demonstration so in the science of 〈◊〉 Theology This is amongst 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 scripture is the word of God if any 〈◊〉 this controversall he is an Antiscripturiâ—â— and Paganish Secondly There be no Controversie betwixt us and the Papists in that wherein we are agreed but both are agreed that all the bookes which we receive for Canonicall scripture are the word of God Ergo this is no Controversie If all the bookes of scripture which we mantaine be the word of God our Adversaries being judges then iâ— must determine faith and manners or else our faith is humane for Bellarmine †Bel. de verbo Dei lib. 1. â— 2. sayeth that Scriptura est regula credendi tutissima certissima the written word is a most sure and certaine rule of beleeving So sayeth Aquinas †Aquinas in Tim. 6. This is sufficient for confirming the first Answere and refuting the first Exceptionâ— Yet to follow your impertineut digression from the power of the scripture-bench to the number of the books I Answere Secondly that the doctrine concerning the number of the scripture books or the names of all them who penned these if comparatively considered that is if you compare the present number with that of the Jewish and ancient Church in pâ—â—mitive times of Christianity is not expliâ—â—â— known and beleeved by all Fide divin◠〈◊〉 first but we come to the knowledge of â—â—e number which the primitive Church mantained as we doe to the names and number of other bookes seing the Catalogue of Canonicall bookes is not set down in scripture All this we attaine without the aid of Romish Councills For the Jewes to whom were committed the oracles of God Rom. 3. 1. 2. whom holy Augustin on Ps 40. calleth Capsarios librarios Christianorum these who keeped the bookes of the old Testament for Christians and fulfilled as he saith that word in part The elder shall serve the younger divide the bookes of the old Testament according to the letters of their Alphabet into two and twenty sometimes into foure and twenty as Eusebius sheweth yet never added to nor Lib. 3. cap. 10. altered a book of the Canon only they would suÌ„me up now and then the book of Ruth with the Judges the book of the Lamentations with the Prophecies of Jeremy and at other times againe reckon them by themselves So they sometimes made but one book of Samuel one of the Kings one of the Chronicles in some editions the whole Minor Prophets were reckoned but one book by them As the scription and writting of the bible is and hath been diverse yet the doctrine contained therein is stil the rule under every character so the Canon of the old Testament finished by the Prophet Malachy was ever the same in the Jewish Church what ever way they calculated the number of these bookes Hierom translated the books of the old TestameÌ„t from the Hebrew and he did admit all the books admitted by us So did the Greek and Latine Church neither for ought we can learn from Authors was there any alteration or addâ—tion till the third Council of Carthage then Can. 47. they recoÌ„mended other books as profitable to be read which are Apocryphal The Canon of the New Testament was finished by Iohn the Evangelist who out lived the rest of the Apostles and the number we have not disclaimed In universa ecclesia Christiana sayeth Hierom ad Dardanum And according to the Councill of Laodiâ—â—a Can. 59. these books were numbered is Canonick only and appointed to be read in all the Churches of Syrla this Councill was holden Annno Dom. 364. Although Luther cast at the Epistle of James we receive it Secondly Luther by some Learned is said to have made a retractation of that errour Thirdly In his Preface to his works he desireth that men would read his books with some commiseration and remember that once he was a Monk Fourthly Your own Cajetan said as much against the Epistle of James as Sirtus Senensis telleth us Biblioth lib. 6. will it therefore follow that ye have no Canon Fifthly Stapleton saith Princ. doct lib. 9. cap. 14. in Defens Ecc. Author that it is not as yet peremptorily defined by your Church whither ye may adde moe books to the present number but we of the reformed Church are agreed in this that these books of the Old and New Testament number them who wil were the Canon received read and exponed in the Primitive Church and none can adde to or alter the doctrine therein contained under the pain of Anathema Rev. 22. 19. It is an admirable providence that the Jews such enemies to Christianity keeped these Prophesies of the Scripture uncorrupted So saith holy Augustin lib. de Consensu Evang. cap. 26. yet you deride that as if the Lord could not keep that holy Canon in the Jews hand which is a witness against them and testifies of him to their confusion Jo. 5. 39. so your consequence â—s bad and impertinent Answer Third Although the numbering or penning of the Scripture books comparatively considered be not simply necessary to be known or believed fide Divina But we come to the knowledge of these as to the number or penner of other books yet absolutly considered to any discerner the books of Scripture father themselves Lege in facie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Divina read in the face of them divine approbation as in the
Firmament we may see the singer of GOD so here †See Barron against Turnbul tract 9. p. 643. we may behold divine Majestie Heavenly efficacie the consent and harmonie of parts the fulfilling of Prophesies see August lib. 6. Confes cap. 5. Persuasisti mihi non qui crederent libros tuos quos tanta in omnibus fere gentibus authoritate fundasti sed qui non crederent esse culpandos nec audiendos esse si qui forte mihi dicerent unde scis illos libros unius veri Dei spiritu esse humano generi administratos id ipsum maxime credendum erat The Scripture it self then testifieth whose it is holy men of GOD did so speak and writ that ye may know the certainty of these things Luk 1. 4. and believe them Jo. 19. 35. this is taken from the very Scripture and not from any distinct Tradition from iâ— Beside all this we have miracles wonderful providences sealing this word the testimonie of adversaries Jews and Gentiles to the doctrine therein contained the testimonie of old and late writters to our whole Canon And seeing the Lord hath sealed it and it is called his Testament none should adde to it or alter any point contained therein This is expresly forbidden Deut. 4. 2. 12. 32. Pro. 3. 6. how grosly Papists make void the Testament of the Lord by new datives and in that are like the Pharisees Matth. 15. 3. 6. shal appear hereafter Answer fourth Although all books †The Papists reject some of these Apocriphal books from the Canon of Scripture aâ— Esdras the book of Baruch c. are not rejected by us upon this account only because the Iews did so but for many other good reasons for self-murder is commended in Razis there contrar to the 6. Command c. The authours crave pardon for that which is spoken amiss whereby it is acknowledged that they had not the spirit of infallibility in all ages exceptions were made against them as is well proved by our Divines S. Thomas and Nicodemus Gospels have approbation of none so need no refutation Now I referre it to any Reader whither this first reason be sufficiently refuted or if this reflecter understandeth Logick or himself who thus reasoneth The number of Scripture bâ—oks is controverted therefore that which on all hands betwixt PROTESTANTS and Papists is acknowledged to be Scripture is not the determiner of faith Who will not perceive here a mis-stated question and gross non-consequence Yet no greater not that concerning the Messias which deserveth no answer being so absurd and bordering with blasphemie The second Reason Why Scripture cannot Pa. Rea. 2 be the rule of faith is because PROTESTANTS believe many things whereof the Scripture maketh no mention at all as the keeping holy the Sunday for the Sabbath or Saturday the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Father and the Son the Trinity of Persons in God that there is one person although two natures in Christ for the Scripture maketh no more mention of Persons then of Papish-tran substantiation that Baptism of Hereticks is not to be reiterat against the Donatists that Ordination of lawful Ministers should not be reiterâ—t against Marcion that Baptism and the Lords Supper are Sacraments which are the very fundamentals of your Religion I answer to this that errour is broodie for ere it be confessed by some men they will Pro. An. 1 broach absurd Tenets and shake foundations which appeareth evidently here For this man deâ—yeth the Articles of our Creed to be grounded on Scripture which is most abominable to utter What is not the Trinity the Sacrament of Baptism and the Supper scriptural truths Let not this be heard in Gath. This giveth the Council of †Sess 7 Can. 1. de Sacr. in gen Trent the lie so the author is anathematized by them Let Papists read such as writ positive Divinity these points are aboundantly proved by them from Scripture Catechists will teach them to speak better and it they be not founded there why do your own writters prove them thence Secondly The mysterie of the Trinity is directly in Scripture 1. Io. 5. 7. there are An. 2. three which bear record in Heaven the Father the Word and the Spirit these three are one The Word Person is in Scripture Heb. 1. 3. we indeed make use of words in the doctrine of the Trinity which are not Scripture words but all the things are there otherwise our foundations would soon dissolve This is Augustins answer against the Arrians Contra Max. lib. 3. cap. 5. and Naz. Orat. 5. de Theol. yea your own Bellarmin lib. 2. de Christo cap 2. saith Quadam verba sunt utilia ad explicanda mysteria Scripturae quae licet in Scripturis non habeantur eorum tamen aequivalentia semina ibi habentur i. e. Some words are necessar for explaining the mysteries of Scripture which though they be not contained in the Scriptures yet their parallels and seeds are contained there This he proveth by instances cha 3. 4. 5 which I need not to translate So that the Tenets which we mantaine concerning the Trinity and the two Sacraments being Scripture truths it is gross to say we have no Scripture warrand for these seeing we may make use of words for explaining divine truths any may behold the weakness of this Reply The name Trinity and Sacrament is not in Scripture therefore the thing is not there As for the Sabbath we once prove from Scripture that Saturday is no Sabbath to us Col. 2. 16. 17. then from Scripture that one day of seven behoved to be observed by reason of the fourth Command which is Moral Secondly That the seventh in number â—â— Moral the seventh day in order only ceremonial Thirdly That the Lords-day by right succeedeth †See Palmer Candrey about the Sabbath as is here made out And what day can be more sit then that on which Christ Jesus arose and put an end to the work of Redemption Then our Lord came in amongst the midst of his Disciples Io. 20. 26. which Mâ—ldoâ—at on the place confesseth to be some proof to shew that the Lords-day hath its origen from the will of Christ Acts 20 7. The Disciples conveened to the worship and the breaking of bread that day and 1. Cor. 16 they had their collections that day Hierom contra Vigilantium sayeth that per unaâ— Sabbati is understood the Lords-day And Rev. 1. 10. There is express mention of the Lords day on which place Ribera the Iesuit remarketh that in the Apostles times the solemnity of the Sabbath was changed to the Lords-day and consecrated by the Lords Resurrection Esthius on Gal. 4. v. 10. refuteth you fully by saying Diei Dominicae observationem Apostolicam esse constat ex Scriptura i. e. It is clear from Scripture that the Apostles observed the Lords day How then can you say that we have no Scripture for it Thirdly That the holy
seem to me against our oath of supremacie not to acknowledge any other judge in matters of controversie then scripture Seeing there his Majestie is said to be and we sworn to acknowledge him supream judge in all cases as well Civil as Eclesiastick and I pray God that Preachers and Ministers to whom only you ascribe the power of herauldry had not taken on the coat of arms these years bygon to publish any other sentence then that which did proceed from the mouth of that supream judge Answer first The Scripture we call a rule Pro. An. because it maketh the man of GOD perfect 2. Tim. 3. 16. as a rule doth a line and the Duply 1. doctrine therein is termed a judge Metonymically properly a judge is a person because it is the voice of a supreame judge who is our law-giver This we speak with the Scripture Io. 12. 48. Io. 7. 51. and Heb. 4. 13. It is the descerner of the thoughts of the heart Where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is given to it You grant here that it is our law book Ergo Metonymically our judge and determiner it must be for we appeal to the law for judgement To this the Apostle Paul appealeth Act. 26. 22. Then there be many cases incident to a Christian in his spiritual exercise which none on earth can judge The spiritual one is judged of no mam 1. Cor. 2. 15. yet this will discern the thoughts of his heart The divine doctrine now written is the only impartial infallible determiner he who heareth not Moses the Prophets and the Apostles will not hear one risen from the dead Conscience is a rule Rom. 2. 14. a witness Rom. 2. 15. and a judge 1. Io. 3. 20. 21. It is to be considered that there is a difference betwixt humane Courts and this work the one concerneth temporals wherein we may be ruled by reason but here in matters of salvation we must have an infallible rule by revelation albeit in humane Courts the rule the witness and the judge are different for guarding against corruption to which fallen man is subject yet in foro divino in the court of GOD one may be witness judge rule accuser such is the scripture The Spirit of GOD speaketh there Is it not the law the testimony the canon or rule Gal. 6. 16. is it not a witnesser a warner Ps 19. 11. doth it not speak to men Rom. 9. 17. and will it not judge us hereafter The word which I speak to you will judge you in the last day Io. 12. 48. if then why now is it not our judge Further the judgement of discretion is but a discretive faculty no proper bench and liker a watch then a judge for it hath no authority over others the Ministerial authority is subordinâ—t and more like the office of a steward nor of a proper judge 2. Cor. 1. 24. Only the written word is the determiner and the Lord speaking there is absolute supreame judge from whom there is no appealing Answer second If the second be as good as the first it is well for notwithstanding of all Pro. An. 2 your weapon-shews you yeeld in the end what I said that we should go to the law and testimony with all our cases and that the scripture to any believer and right discerner hath divine authority Heavenly majestie and maketh spiritual impressions on the soul If it have divine authority is it not judge was there any more asserted in the first answer we hold the same similitude the King is head of Council and Session the law ratified by King and Parliament is the rule and the officers of Council and Session are administrators So our Lord Jesus is the head of his Church the written Word is the law and the Ministers of the Gospel are administrators by whom the people are directed and instructed But if the officers go contrar to the will of the King and his law the subjects may appeal from their administration to the acts of Parliament and hear the Kings pleasure when subjects wrong their inferiours and neighbours See Ps 85. 8. Hear what the Lord will say and who hath ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit sayeth to the Churches Answer third Ministers of the Gospel are called Messengers Rev. 2. 2. Cor. 8. 23. So Pro. An. 3 were they termed under the law Mal. 2. 7. and doth not the Greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 oft used for Preacher in the N. T. signify a cryer or herauld Why then do you scoff at Scripture As for your prayer it seemeth you pray all by the book and here you are beside it present or future things are the object of prayer but that factum should be infectum to pray that a thing done should be undone is an unwarrantable petition what hath been wrong in us heretofore should be regrated what is or hath been right is the object of praise but your prayer is unwarrantable and impossible Answer fourth Albeit our Soveraign Lord Pro. An. 4 the Kings Majestie be supream magistrat according to the Scripture 1. Pet. 2. 13. and ex officio a nursing father to the Church Is 49. 23. to whom every man civil or Ecclesiastick doth owe subjection Rom. 13. 1. Yet it will not follow that the word of GOD is not the supream determiner of all controversies in Religion Whatsoever primitive Fathers gave to Constantine the great Theodosius elder and younger c. that we give to our Soveraign Lord the King And there be no Church on earth which by their confessions of faith honour the Magistrat more then we Yet notwithstanding of this prerogative asserted and mantained against Papists by our †Viz. Bp. Bilson de Subject Usher Dr. Strang. Divines Our Soveraigne Lord the Kings Majestie will not deny that the scripture is the determiner of all the Articles of our faith seeing he mantaineth the 39. Articles of the Church of England whereof this is one Answer fifth How cometh it to pass that Pro. An. 5 you own the oath of supremacie By calling it ours seeing the main scop of that oath was to renounce the Pope his jurisdiction in the Kings dominions you must either have a dispensation for this that you here subscribe a renunciation of the Popes supremacie or else you will be declared apostar at Rome And no Papist keeping his principles can averre that wich is here set down under your hand Question third If the Scripture be judge why be there so many controversies undecyded Pa. Qu. Answer The perverseness of men is to blame for this Unstable unlearned ones wrest the Scripture to their own perdition Pro. An. 2. Pet. 3. 16. and make difficulties where there be none As much as containeth the way to salvation is plain in Scripture so that he who runneth may read and learn Reply In your third answer you please me Pap. Reply well and it confirmeth all I have said but refuteth your former answer to the full For if the
unlearned as well as the unstable wrest the scripture to their own destruction then Scripture can neither be the determiner of faith nor the judge of controversies to them and so they must have another both to instruct the ignorant and settle the unstable as we must all have some infallible judge to know who wrest the Scripture who not otherwise we may well agree in the letter but we will never agree in the sense and meaning thereof But as much say you as containeth the way to salvation is plain so that he may runne who readeth it Sir doth it not belong to salvation that there be three persons in God one in Christ that Baptism is a Sacrament c. Now where find you this in Scripture either running or siting Or if Scripture be so plaine clear as ye make it why be there so many Comments on it among your own men and so different Why is there amongst Protestants 200. expositions upon these four words This is my Body As Cusaâ—us in his holy court observeth Answer first I am glade that the written Pro. An. 1 word of GOD pleaseth you so who have all this time spent words to throw all power out of its hand and hang it at the Popes foot But you say it refuteth what was said formerly This cannot be made good for still I said it was the rule of faith to right discerners and sometime you grant this as in the latter part of your fifth Reason whereby indeed you refute all you have said and yeelds the cause fully Now what contradiction can be here The scripture is the rule to all right discerners and as many as walk according to this rule peace shal be on them but men who wrest the word unlearned unstable soules fall into perdiâ—ion for abuse of the word and destroy themselves hence proceedeth many controversies Is it not a strange consequence to inferre thence that these unlearned unstable soules should have another rule and another judge In the 19. of Luke v. 27. it is said by our Lord that his enemies who would not have him to reign over them should be brought forth and slain before him will it therefore follow that he should not reign over them Or that they Jure should have another King The case is just alike here It is granted that many have their consciences seared 1. Tim. 4. 2. are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Tim. 3. 8. self-condemned Tit. 3. 11. under stronge delusions 2. Thess 2. 11. Is the Scripture to blame for this You have many faults to that which you like not Hear Optatus Milevitanus adversus Paliner Donatistam Vos dicitis licet nos non licet inter licet vestrum non licet nostrum nutant animi populorum If you seek a judge saith he a Pagan cannot do it nor a Jew they are enemies Christians by their discerning faculty cannot they being impeded studio partium Then upon earth there can be no judge shal we go to Heaven for one Quorsum cum hic habemus iâ— Evangelio testamentum i. e. To what purpâ—se seeing we have the Testament here in the Gospel If there be a contention among brethren saith he quaritur Testamentum the Testament is sought So we must decide our controversies by the Old and New Testament etenim praesentia quae modo facitis futura conspexerat Christus i. e. For Christ did foresee these things as future which ye make to be now present and hath he foreseen it and will he not provide a remedie for it Secondly These unlearned unstable ones Pro. An. 2 who are to be destroyed will not hear understand nor obey his word then is it like that they will understand the voluminous decrees of the Pope May they not wrest his sentence and sense more easily then Scripture words Or dare any say that humane ordinanceâ— will sooner compesâ—e command or regulat them then the word of GOD Thirdly We do not deny Mâ—nisterial Pro. An 3 helps for instructing and seâ—ling the ignorant and unstable nor judicial sentences subaltern and subordinat â—o the law But that there is an infallible man 〈◊〉 to whose sentence I must implicitly submiâ—â—â— is â—â—â—culous to averie it and the broaching of that errour hath occasioned more controversies then were formerly in the Church so far is it from composing differences If ye were more in catechising the unlearned and leâ—s in regal commands the law of GOD would be both better understood and obeyed Fourthly Albeit some places be hard to Pro. An. 4 be understood by the unlearned 1. Pet. 3. 16. other places are not so difficult In the scripture an Elephant may swime and a Lamb may wade And the same particulars you again object are clearly holden forth in scripture as is formerly proved in the vindication of my answer to your 1. Qu. in answer to Rea. 2. Yea the way to salvation is fair and patent there and if we perish our destruction is of our selves seeing that book is not sealed to us Commentaries Church-canons Ecclesiastick sentences are helps and means for edification but scripture is the authentick instrument and all the authority is originally from it And different expositions according to the analogy of faith may be and will be so long as there be diversity of gifts But I ask why ye make use of Commentars Seeing ye resolve all into the sentence of the Pope And why do your Commentators differ so amongst themselves If this hinder not your Ecclesiastick supremacie why should it be brought to weaken scripture authority It is hard to find where you are for sometimes ye would have a judge to authorize scripture to you sometimes you would have only one for the sense of scripture then at last you are for one only to the unlearned and unstable such is your instability in this matter that I wish the word of God may determine you aright in the point Question fourth Were it not better to establish Pa. Qu. 4 a man or an assembly of men judge of Controveâ—sies seeing the Church is the pillar of truth 1. Tim 3. 15. aâ—d hath the promise of presence Matth. 28. 20. then th◠〈◊〉 Sect should be laying claim to the Scripture and yet taking sundry wayes Answer The promulgation of the law is Pro. An. not denyed to the pure Gospel Church truth is mantained and preserved there as the law was keeped in the Ark thus it is called the pillar of it But the Church of Rome is not such being a very strumpet and making the Kings of the earth drunk with the cup of her fornications Rev. 17. 2. thaâ— promise of presence is made to the universal Church but no particular Church such as Rome can claim the measure or duration of it who of these can say that they shal last to the end of the world Albeit Sects lay claim to Scripture yet their abuse cannot take away our lawful use of it To this a Papist replyeth That the question Pap. Reply is not
directly answered by me whither on man or many should be judge of controversies To this he saith I dare not answer because I will not grant the power either to the high Bishop or general council nevertheless he findeth this to have been the constant practise of the Church both in the Old and New Testament established by the express word of God and received by the Fathers in all ages for in the Old Testament from Deut. 17. from 8. to 13. we read that GOD did command the people in matters of controversie to go to the Priests Levits and judge who should be in those days appointed by him for that end saying and thou shalt do according to the sense of the law which they shal teach thee and according to the judgement which they shal tell thee Remark he saith not according to the sense of the law which thou shalt read but which they shal teach thee not taken according to the privat judgement and spirit but according to the judgmeÌ„t which they shal tel thee where God promiseth out of their mouth judicii veritateÌ„ truth and verity in judgement or as you turn it sentence of judgement See for this also 2. Chr. 19. 8. where Jehosophat established what was first instituted Viz. a council of Levits Priests and chief fathers of Israel to judge not only between brethren and brethren blood and blood but also betwixt law and coÌ„mandments statutes and judgements Not leaving law and commandments to the peoples privat reading and interpretation as you do in your rule of faith In the 11. verse he concludeth thus Amaziah is over you in all matters of the Lord where it is evident that the council and chief Priest is established judge of controversie and not the written Word as every one readeth and expoundeth In the New Testament again you have this practise clearly set down Acts. 15. Where Paul and Barnabas though Apostles themselves go up to Jerusalem about the question of circumcising the Gentiles converted to the faith And there was holden the first council in which this is decided not out of Scripture but by the authority of the Council it self It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and us said they having the assured promise of the assistance of the Holy Ghost as the Church hath at all time Wherefore after the Apostles councils have decided with the same authority and upon the same infallible ground of the Holy Ghosts assistance promised to the Church Many controversies are acknowledged by Protestants for points of faith without express passage of Scripture Marcion teaching that Baptism should be conferred more then once and Donatists that Baptism conferred by Hereticks should be reiterated as invalid are condemned in the council holden at Rome under Melchiadâ—s Pope in the year 313. now what passage of Scripture I pray you is for this Sâ—bellius putting one person only in the God-head is câ—ndemned in the council of Alexandria under Pope Cornelius in the year 319. but scripture maketh no mention of persons Nestorius putting two persons in Christ is condemned in the Generall Council holden at Ephesus under Pope Caelestin the year 434. Yet neither doth the Scripture speak of thâ—â— The Monotheliâ—s giving to Christ one will in two Natures are condemned in the third general Câ—uncil holden at Constantinople under Pope Agathon the year 679. albeit there be no formal scripture for this So you see it belongeth both in the Old and New Testament to the high Priest and general Council to decide controversie either by Scripture if there be any passage clear for that point or without Scripture by Apostolick tradition conserved in the Church which scripture it self warranteth 2. Thess 2. 15. Hold fast the traditions which ye have learned either by word or our epistle but it seemeth you care not who be condemned or by whom if you take away all power on earth to condemne your selves Every Protestant will be condemned by none but Scripture and yet will make none judge of the Canon Version and sense of Scripture but himself All your answer is that we grant the Promulgation of the law to the pure Gospel Church but you shew not what is this pure Gospel Church neither can you infallibly prove the purity of the Gospel it self or that there is a Gospel or the true sense of the Gospel but by the Catholick Church her authority Hear Aug. contta Ep. fund cap. 5. Where he saith I my self would not have believed the Gospel were it not that the authority of the Church moved me to it Now the Catholick Church is that whose faith is spread through all the world in the Apostle Paul his time which maketh her to be justlie called the Catholick Roman Church and whose faith hath been in all ages since Christ which all the records of the Protestant writters witness of the Roman Church wherein the succession of Popes Bishops Councils is made conspicuous to all who have written Chronology or Church history in every age none whereof make mention of your Church or of men professing your tenets before Luther and Calvin from whom ye dissent in many things Answer first This is a prolix reply the Pro. Du. 1 substance of which might have been taken up in seven or eight lines As it is spacious so it is an impertinent rapsodie and like a beggers cloak clouted here and there with divers parcells without any method or cohesion It seemeth to have been taken out of some Index and cast in here to fill the page For the answer was That the promulgation of the law is not denyed to the pure Gospell-Church which is not the Roman-Church for it is impure Is not this a direct answer You prove that there hath been a Ministerial-Church in the old and new Testament which we doe not deny but this is the point did they so pronounce sentence and decide Controversies that all discretive judgement was taken from people or called they themselves infallible whether they had scripture warrand or not Or wil the promise of presence to the Apostles Prophets and penners of Scripture in measure and duration agree to any Church Officers now on Earth Or should promises made to the Universal-Church agree to any particular Church such as Rome Or will promises made to the collective body of the Church agree to the representative unless these be proved you fight with your own shadow For we are much for the authority of Christs Church and think that her judgment of old and late should sway privat men unless they can prove by scripture or sound reason that she erreth We are much for the authority of all lawful Councils and we give them all reverence in regard of the authority of their constitution but if they depart from the scriptures we owe them not active obedience Well speaketh our learned Camero tom 1. tract de infallibilitate ecclesiae So oft as any thing is decreed by a Council or assembly of men appointed by lawfull autharity
pretended right so in the matter of doctrine an invisible Church and no Church is the same For if I cannot see nor know the Elect as being invisible to the eye of man so I cannot know that the Church composed of them speaketh to me or that this Doctrine I hear of any man is infallible more then that he is one of the Elect. Answer I am weary transseribing a number Protest Duply of wordâ— without weight that is a compleet rapsodie and no return to the former question If such digressions were heard in the School the Writter behoved to be sore censured The question was how the Scripture could be the square Seeing all agree not about the number of the books some cast at the Epistle of James as the Lutherans And the answer I gave was that although some Lutherans differre from us about the authority of that epistle yet we both agree here that uncontroverted scripture is the determiner And for the numerick question it was sufficiently answered in the second answer to the first querie so we needed not this tauâ—oligie to make the Reader nauseat If I had to do with a Lutheran then I could prove the divine authority of that Epistle but you do not deny it therefore to what purpose should I insist on that subject against you Mr. Hooker whom you cite maketh nothing against us as is alledged for that which he sayes is first that the light of reason rightly managed is a requâ—sit mean for the knowledge of scripture books and what sayeth that against us seeing we suppose the Readers of Scripture to be â—ational men that reason in its own line may be helpful to them for understanding scripture Secondly Mr. Hooker directly disclaimeth your traditions page 86. and affirmeth that they who betake themselves to that testimonie as divine have not the truth but are in an errour Thus he condemneth you as erronious so it had been your advantage to have spared this tradition neither was it needful to tell us that the Manichees denyed Moses and the Jews the New Testament We have to do with Papists who hold all the books of the Old and New Testament which we hold for Canonick At lest what some others make disputable as Melchior Canus telleth us you put it out of dispute so you are not in bona fide to reason about their number with us seeing ye question none which we mantaine albeit we justly call in question Apocryphal writtings which ye put into the Canon Is it not safer to regulate our faith by these uncontroverted Scriptures then by the dictats of mutable self-contradicting Popes When Church Rulers have been fully corrupted Believers have continued orthodoxe as in the time of the Arrian persecution The Fathers who lived the first 300. year believed without either Pope or General Council as propounders of their faith For then there was no such pretending to infallible supremacy They had no infallible testimony from the Church they acknowledged not her testimony to be such And for ought I can learn theâ—e be no testimony of your Church nor statute enacting her testimony to be infallible If so it is nor according to you de fide however ye make a great noise amongst people with it And if all the faith you have depend upon the testimony of the present Church which is your doctrine your faith is not one with Abrahams faith for the word of God did beget his faith but it is the testimony statute of the Trent Council that begettâ—th yours and I would gladly hear from you whither there was universal consent there or not Such clashing and pocket orders as the author of that history telleth to the world will not permit you to say without a blush that the Council was unanimous and Gospel-like in their way Therefore unless it be against us all their otheracts are made up of ambiguous stuffe like the Delphian responses this is purposely coÌ„trived to cover debates with general termes And if their testimony make the word of GOD Scripture to me living under Popery what rule had they for their faith who made these conclusions Their own testimony could not be the cause of their own belief if you say that the testimonie of the ancient Church was their rule then ye go contrar to your own Doctors who declare that the present Church of Rome is above all former councils and their authority dependeth on her testimony See Bell. lib. de Eccl. cap. 10. Valentia Tom. 3. disp 1. quest 1. Further that the supream power of judging is not in the Council but in the Pope that he is above a general Council that he cannot be subject to it See Bell. lib. 2. de Concil cap. 17. Valentia tom 3. disp 1. Suarez disp 5. de fide and your own Vives in his comment on Augustins 20. book de civit Dei cap. 26. telleth us how little ye make of Councils or of the ancient Church when they militat against you Illa demum videntur iis Concilia quo in rem suam faeiunt reliqua non pluris estimantur quam commenta mulierum in textrina aut thermis i. e. These appear to be Councils to them which make for them the rest are no more esteemed by them then the sables of old women in the weavers shop or sloves Brisâ—â—erius writting against Collag a Jansenist as he is cited by learned Dalleus †See Dâ—lleus de usu Patrum saith Councils are literae mortuae nisi animentur à praesenti Ecclesia i. e. They are dead letters if they be not animated by the present Church This appeareth to be true from experience for ye agree not with the primitive either in doctrine worship or government The ancients thought that Images should not be in the Church See Epiph. epist ad Iohannem Hierosolymitanum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cum vidissem Imaginem penderâ— in Ecclesia contra authoritatem Scripturae i. e. When I saw an Image hang in the Church contrar to the authority of Scripture how grieved was I. But the Council of Trent appointed them to be had in houses and Churches and that debitus honor reverentia Sess 25. eis impertiatur i. e. Due honor and worship be given to them The Fathers thought that the Virgin Marie was conceived in sin so saith Ambrose Augustin Chrysostom as Melchior Canus de loc Theol. lib. 7. telleth The Council of Trent Sess 5. will not conclude heâ— under Original sin The Fathers excluded Tobias Judith Wisdom Ecclesiasticus and both the books of the Maccabees out of the canon of Scripture So did Hierom in his prologue ad libros Solomonis Epiph. lib. de Pond mens cap. 2. pag. 162. Gregorie Nazianzen câ—rm 3. Athanasius epist fest But the Council of Trent anathematizeth them who exclude these books out of the Canon Sess 4 Baptism was delayed till Pasch and Pentecost in the primitive Church it is not so with you The 4. Council of Carthage did forbide women
about matters of faith Secondly If so they be no where written in Scripture Thirdly That if they be not written they be the same which ye deliver to the people and by what authority ye press and writ them But to take this text wholly from your mis-interpretation hear Theodoret who saith that the Apostle spake not of diverse doctrines but of the same diversely delivered For first he preached to the Thessalonians and then did writ the substance of it But as where ever ye find fire in the Scripture ye make it Purgatory so where ye find tradition ye make it pari ratione yours Will ye listen to Bell. lib. 4. de verbo Dei cap. 10. and he will put all out of doubt for he granteth that all in substance were written by the Apostles which they preached to the people or were necessar to salvation Cyprian in his epist ad Pompeium admitteth not any traditions but such as may be perceived to be in the Evangels in the Epistles or Acts of the holy Apostles Therefore it is a perfect rule to all discerners say I and no more was at first asserted Your Maxime Idem est non esse non apparere holdeth in law but not in divinity For the soul is not visible yet who can deny the being of it What is more in the Reply I judge not worthy the noticeing and I am forced to make digression because of an impertinent return Is it not strange that when I called men mutable creatures and at their best state vanitie subject to clashing contradiction and that the written Word is the only infallible rule for direction that upon this tradition universal consent should be so prolixely commented on without any connexion They who follow this reflecter must resolve to deviat from tho high way Question seventh Your Church which ye Papists Quest. 7 call reformed is but of yesterday where was it before Luther Answer It is as old in its doctrinals as Prote ∣ stants Answer the Scripture therefore not of yesterday See what societie from the beginning professed the doctrine mantained there that was out Church The Romans Corinthians Ephesians Philippians Thessalonians as taught by the Apostle Paul are our Church of old so it is not new Secondly In all ages there have been and are eminent professours of that doctrine which we mantaine as is abundantly proved by Flaccus Illyricus in his Catalogue Testium veritatis and learned Dr. Usher in successione Ecclesiae reform which testimonies no Popish shaveling of what ever ordour yet could answer Thirdly where was the church of Rome as now constituted before the council of Trent Nay more was the Popes supremacy and infallibility heard of the 600 year after Christ Is not all Popish faith as such resolved into a lie viz. the infallibility of the Pope or Council which though errand untruths are the key of the Popish Religion Fourthly All the positives of the reformed Religion were mantained substantially in the Primitive church the first 300. years I speake not of changeable circumstances nor integrals but essentials and the negatives could not be there because the controversies were not then started But ye Papists have amassed a body of humane inventions gross errours contrare to scripture obtruding them under Anathema to be the established doctrine of the Church And because we of the reformed Profession will not own these and call that which is new old ye excommunicat us as Hereticks Reply In your seventh Answere you say Papists Reply your doctrine is as old as scripture and your Church as the Apostles and this is common to you with all sectaries to claime the scripture and the Church in the time of the Apostles And like to that answer of the common people we are all come of Adam and Eve But I shall let you presently see how contrar your doctrine is to that scripture and how unlike your Church is to that of the Apostles the first 300 year In the second part ye pretend that Illyricus and Doctor Usher have sufficiently shewed that there have been eminent men of your Profession in all ages and that without a Reply of any Popish shaveling of whatever ordour But Sir I am sorrie that you who are a Nazarian and not a shaveling shoule be so ill versed in books of controversie as not to have seen so many Catholick writters who demonstrat clearly that of all these eminent men before Calvin you pretend to be yours there is not one hath holden all the same tenets with you and no more For it is enough for you that they dissent from the Church of Rome and sling at the Popes authority what ever tenets they hold in matters of belief to call them yours Which hath made Dr. Vane Chaplain to our late King judiciously compare them to Sampsons foxes which were all bound together by the tails although their heads went diverse wayes So that when you call the Luthereans Valdenses Albigenses Hussites Catharists Wicklessians Graecians Egyptians yours you may as well call the Turks and Tartars yours if we trust all records which speake of their tenets And as for the Fathers hear if they were yours in the opinion of the most learnea Protestants Dudithius apud Bezam ep 1. If that be true which Papists say the Fathers with mutual consent are altogether on their side Pet. Martyr 2. de verbo col 1539. as long as we stand to Councils and fathers we shal alwayes remain in the same errours And fully confesseth that Hierom Ambrose and Augustin held the invocation of Saints Chemnitius in ex concil trid art 3. pag. 100. did not disput but avouch that most of the Fathers said the souls of the Martyrs heard the petition of those that prayed to them they went to monuments and invocated Martyrs by name Whitgift in his defence pag. 473. all the Bishops and writters of the Greek and Latine Church too who no doubt were the Fathers for the most part were spotted with the doctrine of Free-will Merit Invocation of Saints Judge then Sir if they were pure In the third part you ask where was the Church of Rome before the council of Trent I answer you even where she is now except in Jappony India China and some parts of America where by their Christian labours and by the blessing of GOD she hath been established since Neither can you instance that she is not constantly the same in all points Nay more say you was the Popes infallible universal supremacie heard of the first 600. years Where it seems you must be very deaf who hear not the voice of 1200. Fathers speaking only in the four first general Councils He who holdeth the See of Rome is chief and head of all Patriarchs saith right seeing he is the first as Peter to whom all power is given over all Christian Princes and all their people and who ever contradicteth this is excommunicated Can. 29. Concil Nicaeni anno 325. Where 316 Bishops were conveened Secondly
Of 150. Bishops in the first Council of Constantinople anno 381. Where the Bishop of Constantinople is decreed to be the chief next the Bishop of Rome Thirdly Of 200. Bishops in the first council of Ephesus anno 431. where in the third action it is defined that saint Peter was the head and prince of the Apostles and that the power of binding and loosing is granted to him who in his successours liveth and exerciseth judgement unto this very day Fourthly Of 600. Bishops in the Chalcedon council in the year 451. where in the third action also Pope Leo is called universal Bishop Patriarch of old Rome and sentence is pronounced against Dioscorus in the name of Leo and sunt Peter to acknowledge Leo Peters successour The Fathers in particular I do not cite for their citations in this would make a volumn Only I engage that of a 100. there be 90. clear for this And not one against it Is not Popish faith resolved into a lie say you viz. the infallibility of Pope or Council You should have said Pope and Council putting tâ—em together as the head and chief members which represent the whole body of the Church As the Parliament doth the whole Kingdome and then if you doubt of their infallibility you deny the express words of Scripture which calleth the Church the ground and pillar of truth 1. Tim. 3. and which assureth us that the gates of hell shal not prevail against her Math. 16. 18. Yea you take away all possible means to know infalliblie what is true Scripture what is the true sense thereof which is to make us doubt of all and leave us no sufficient ground to believe undoubtedlie any thing You take away Christs promise to be with the Church to the end of the world Matth. 28. 20. Yea you take away an Article out of the Creed I believe in the holy Catholick Church and leaving men either to the dead letter of Scripture which killeth many or the privat spirit which deceiveth more or natural reason which can be a motive of faith to none you cast loose all Religion every one reâ—ecting or receiving Scripture as he pleaseth Expounding Scripture as he pleaseth and following in both no infallible rule or guide but his own opinion fancie imaginatioÌ„ In the fourth part you say that all the positives of the reformed Religion were mantained in the primitive Church the first 300. years But if this were true it would be made good no otherwise but by the Fathers writtings in the first three ages after Christ Now if they had all your positive tenets why do your learnedest writters openly disclaime them as I have shewed formerly Why saith Luther your Apostle lib. deserv arbitrio cap. 2. the authority of the Fathers is not to be reguarded and in his Collâ—q cap. de patribus In the writtings of Hierom there is not aword of true faith of Chrysostom I make no account Basil is of no worth he is wholly a Monk Cyprian is a weak Divine But I must not insist on this because you may in some measure deny the greatest parts of controverted points betwixt you and us to be positive tenets Albeit there be none of them but justly may be called so For you not only deny for example the real presence invocation of Saints use of Images that a man is justified by faith and works c. But ye positively believe that Christs Body and Blood is not reallie present in the Sacrament that to invocat the Saints is to give Gods worship to creatures that to make use of Images is idolatrie that a man is not justified by faith only Therefore I instance only two upon which all your visible reformation is grounded First That the whole visible Church may erre Secondly That we should believe nothing but what is in the written Word Now I have made it appear reflecting on your sixt answer that both these positive tenets are against the express wordes of Scripture and Fathers How then did the Church in the first 300. years hold all the positives and what you affirme As for your negatives and what you deny you grant they cannot be there because the controversies were not then stated But this is a bold and open calumnie for not one point is denyed by you but the Fathers in the first 300. years have clearlâ—e asserted And so the controversie betwixt you and us was sufficientlie stated even then You deny real presence and transubstantiation but in the second age Justin Martyr Apol. 2. ad Antonium saies as Jesus Christ incarnat had flesh and blood for our redemption so are we taught that the Eucharist is the flesh and blood of the same Jesus incarnat And in the third age Cyprian serm de coena Domini saith the bread which the Lord gave to his Disciples being changed not in shape but in nature by the omnipotencie of the Word is made flesh Secondlie Ye deny the sacrifice of the Masse asserted in the first age by St. Andrew in the book of his passion written by his Disciples I daily saith he sacrifice the immaculat Lamb to Almightie GOD who when he is truelie sacrificed and his flesh eaten remaineth intire and alive And in the third age by Origen hom 13. on Exod. Ye think your self guiltie and worthilie if any part of the consecrated Hoste be lost by your negligence Thirdlie Ye deny Purgatory asserted in the second age by Tertullian lib. de anima cap. 58 seeing we understand Matthews prison which the Apostle demonstrats to be places below and the least farthing is every smal fault delayed to be paied till the resurrection none will doubt but the soul will recompence something in places below And in the third Age It is one thing being cast into prison not to go out thence till he pay the uttermost farthing another presently to receive the reward of faith One thing to be affected with long pains for sins to be amended and have all sins purged with suffering sayeth Cyprian ep 52. ad Antonium Fourthly ye deny Prayer for the dead allowed in the first Age by S. Clemens ep 1. de sancto Petro where he saith Peter there taught to give almes and pray for the dead And in the same age by Tertul. lib. de cor militis we make yearly oblations for the dead Fifthly ye deny invocation of Saints and Angells recommended in the secong Age by S. Dennis Eccl. hierarch part 3. cap. 3. saying I constantly affirm with the divine scripture that the prayers of the saints are profitable for us in this life after this manner when a man is inflamed with a desire to invocat the saints and distrusting his own weakness betakes himself to any saint beseeching him to be the helper and petitioner to God for him he shall obtaine by that mean very great assistance And in the third Age Origen on the Lambent sayeth I le begin to fall on my knees and pray to all the saints to succour me
and baptize all Nations To ordain Pastours for edifying the body whose power and calling it is to preach the Word purely to administrat the Sacraments of Baptism and the Supper of the Lord as it was first delivered to rule their flocks as they that watch for souls and should stand and feed in the strength of the Lord to administer discipline according to the word of GOD and to do every thing commanded there which may bring men near GOD and help them forward in their journey to Heaven That Magistrats should be obeyed in the Lord. Parents honoured and husband and wife dwel together according to knowledge as heirs of the grace of life That Masters should remember they have a Master in Heaven and Servants be subject to their Masters for the Lords sake That the Lord to whom we owe all should be loved with the whole heart and have the flower of our affection and that we love our neighbour as our self That we should rather suffer then sin and glorify GOD in every station wherein he placeth us This is the summe of the positives which we mantaine he who will deny that all this is contained in Scripture and consented to by the Fathers hath no understanding either of Scripture or antiquity The negatives of our Religion are points of Popery denyed by us and condemned in the Scripture contrar to all antiquity Such as these That the Pope of Rome is supream infallible Monarch of the Christian Church That he and these who follow him cannot erre in matters of faith That he hath preheminence above the scripture and may dispence with the law of GOD concerning incest murder perjury c. That he may depose Kings Their service in an unknown tongue is contrary to all pure antiquitity so much is confessed by Thomas Cajetan and Lyranus writting on 1. Cor. 14. Their praying on beads a late invention Polid Virgil lib. 5. invent cap. 9. Their carrying of the Hoste by a pompous procession is praeter veterem morem saith Cassander consult art 22. not according to antiquity That Christ is bodily present there and should be worshâ—pped and that bread and wine is no longer there after consecration is not older then the Lateran Council That the cup should be holden from the People is of one age with the council of Constance That the Mass iâ— a proper propitiatory sacrifice for the sinnes of dead and living was unknown to Peter Lombard who saith from Augustin lib. 4. disp â—â— that which is offered is called a sacrifice because it is a commemoration and representation of the true sacrifice made on the altar of the Cross Augustin lib. 20. cap. 21. against Faustus the Manichaean the flesh and blood of Christ before his comming into the world was promised by the similitude of the legâ—l sacrifices in the suffering of Christ 〈◊〉 his flesh and blood was in the veritie and antitype it self exhibited after the asâ—â—â—tion of Christ it is celebrated in the Sacrament of commemoration That none should communicaâ— except such as make aâ—ticulat consession to a Priest was not known in the ancient Church saith Maldon sum qu. â—â— art 11. Where there was only publick confession That Images should be set up in Churches and worshipped was abominated till the second council of Nice The like may be said of Purgatorie worshipping Saints and Angels with-holding the Bible from people c. So the Romish Religion is new and ours the good old way quod primum verum saith Tertul. lib. 4. contra Marc. cap. 5. It is true that the enemy did sow tares quickly in the Church and the mysterie of iniquity did encrease by degrees Yet these were not holden to be de side and made articles of the Christian Creed under the paine of Anathema till the council of Trent then indeed in stead of reformation which occasioned that convention the Trent Doctors oâ— at least the plurality of them gathered the crotchets of some Fathers the disputable opinions of some School-men and making a bundle of all together did obtrude them to be believed by all Christians under the pain of excommunication So that the church of Rome as new dogmatized is no older then the council of Trent and ours is as old as Scripture sensed by the purest antiquity For further clearing beside all I have said formerly you may hear this more how Suarez telleth us that the council of Florence did at first insinuat that there were seven Sacraments but it was no article of faith till the council of Trent the like may be said of the rest So Popery is a superstitious superstructure like an ulcer on the body which was long in growing at last did break out and stain the garments of many in a world When our Lord Jesus dyed he left a Testamen behind him which being opened directeth all his subjects how to carry Papists not content with this rule for ordering his legacâ—e upon a pompous design have formed a dative which they make equal to his Testament which we disclaim and honestly adhere to the first Testament here is the rule of our Negatives It is â—â—â—rasonick bragge for you to say That of an 100. Fathers ye have 99. for your tenets and as untrue that the four first general Councils were for the Popes universal supremacie The Fathers though the mystery of iniquitie was then in the cradle being taken up with other controversies did not purposely fall on these tares which scarcely were come to the blade then For instance the Fathers in the first 300. years whose books are extaÌ„t were Iust Mar. who did writ 150. year after Christ an Apology for the vindication of Christians to the Senat of Rome after another of the samekind to Antonius the Emperor a Dialogue concerning the verity of Christian Religion called Tryphon and some other letters exhorting to moral duties holding forth the Roligion of Christians against Jews and Gentiles but that which is Poperie the source of controversies in the Christian Church was unknown to him The next is Ironaeus who lived about the year of Christ 178. He did write five books against the heresies of his time as the Valentinians Gnosticks Ophites the heresie of Simon Magus Menander Basilides So Popery is not to be found in them unless some of these heresies be found in their skirts The â—hird is Clemens Alexandrinus who flourished in the year of Christ 196. who was a Presbyter of Alexandria the subject he handleth is in three parcels an exhortation to the Gentiles to renounce their Idols a Paedagogy to the Christians instructing them about their carriage and his Stromara which is a Miscellany work against the followers of Basilides Gnosticks c. Origen lived about the same time whose writtings are so imperfect and vitiated that we scarce know what to make of them as Erasmus witnesseth in his edition Tertullian did writ about the same time several books as concerning Patience the Resurrection against the Jews against Marcion Hermogenes
any other Papist Reply Reply In your twelfth Sect you make us teach that lawful Magistrats may be deposed by the Pope and that we canonize such Where citing Rom. 13. and 1. Pet. 2. you sight with your own shaddow and make up tenets contrar to Scripture which Catholick detest and abhorre But this is proper to Heresie and particularly yours to cause rebellin from lawful Princes and Magistrats as it did every where even in its first beginning witness the revolting of the Princes of Germany against the Emperour The bloody warre of the subjects in France 20. years against their King Holland against Spain to this day the Suitzers amongst themselves SCOTLAND first against Queen Mary and then our late gracious King Nevertheless Ministers are so bold as to speak this who can neither be subject to Kings Magistrats nor Bishops if they oppose their whimsyes in the least Every one of them taking greater power to himself then Catholicks gives to St. Peter Duply Any one may here perceive a Prote ∣ stants Answer studied shift by way of recrimination Because ye date not declare your selves herein And do you indeed detest the Doctrine of the whole Canonists the whole Jesuits that the Pope may depose a lawful King If it be so I am glade you renounce this point of Poperie But because you say I fight with my own shaddow herein to shew how ignorant and impudent you are in this denyal Let any read either the bull of Gregory the seventh against Henry the fourth the Emperor or of Sixtus the 5 against Henry the third King of France or of Pius the fifth against Elizabeth Queen of England and there ye will find this tennor Nos in supremo justitia throne collocati supremam in omnes Reges Principes Terrae universae cunctosque populos gentes Nationes non humana sed divina institutione obtinentes nobis traditam potestatem declaramus praecipimus jubemâ—s c. Viz. That none of their subjects should owne oâ— acknowledge them For your better information in this particular know that the power of the Pope in this particular is one way explained by the Canonists and another way by the Jesuits For the Canonists say that the Pope hath jura omnia caelestis terrestris imperii sibi à Deo concessa The Jesuits that Pontifex ut Pontifex non habet directe ullum temporalem potestatâ—m sed solum spiritualem tamen indirecte ratione spiritualis habet potestatem quandam eaâ—â—que summam disponendi de temporalibus rebus omnium Christianorum See more of this in Dr. Barclay de potestate Papae in Principes Christianos They hold it beyond doubt that in ordine ad spiritualia which is a broad charter the Pope may depose any King and loose their subjects from all allegiance to him cum subest causa rationalis †Anno 1654. When it was Printed at Naples by authority that the Pope should not exercise jurisdiction civil in the territories of Spain without the Kings leave this was condemned at Rome by Innocent the tenth Secondly They hold that Bishops may omnem moverâ— lapâ—dem and that is a broad word ne degant sub Haeretico Principe Baron anno 438. Sect. 89. Thirdly When the knowledge of the fault is evident Subjects may lawfully if they have sufficient strength exeem themselves from subjection to their Prince Baniâ—s on Thomas quastion 12. and that ante judicis sententiam declaratoriam Lastly Privat persons may kill an Heretical King after sentence is given against him Suarez defens fidei Cathol lib. 6. cap. 4. only their tenderness appeareth in this that the King be not constrained wittingly or willinglie to be the cause of his own death the sense is thiâ— if you can poyson him by his gloves garment or saddle you may do it But by meat or drink you may not for then he taketh his own poyson So John Mariana de Reg. instit lib. 1. cap. 7. Is it not then true that by principles of doctrine no Papist adhering to the Pope can be a loyal subject to the King As for our Reformations ye look on all such with an evil eye But our doctrine in the reformed Church concerning the Magistrat is such that no Christians on earth give him more then we do Witness out Confession of Faith to which we will adhere while we live what ever the scripture and pure antiquitie giveth to Kings that we willingly tender for conscience sake All sound Protestants do abhorre and detest the murther of our late Soveraign Lord the King and we in this Nation did protest and declare against it for which our Commissioners were committed close prisoners and sent with a guard to the border As for the Reformation abroad I desire that famous Mr. Baxter his Key for Catholicks and disswasive from Popery may be read by you who hath written so well on this point that I hope all men satissiable may be satisfied with his reasons which I need not here transcribe See also the testimonie of the Ministers at London against that horride murther to which testimonie we do still adhere and then adbered But Quis tulerit Gracchos de seditione c. †See Bilson of Subjection page 382. Doth not your great Cardinal Allen write an Apologie for Stanles treason against Queen Elizabeth Doth not Bellarmin shew lib. 5. de Pontif. cap. 8. in how many respects Kings may be deposed by their subjects Did not Pope Sixtus the fifth make an Oration at Rome in commendation of the Friar who murthered Henry the third King of France Was not Tyrones treason commenced and commended by your Party who then did take on the coâ—â— of Armes and sound the trumpet of rebellion When the Popes Bull roared in England against Queen Elizabeth how many treasons were hatched and evil humours bred in the people Thirteenthly Ye say we are justified partlie by faith partlie by workes but the § 13. Inst Scripture saith that we are justified by faith without the works of the law and that the man is justified to whom the Lord imputeth faith without workes Rom. 4. 6. and that we are saved by grace through faith not of workes lest any man should boast Neither can any good workes be wrought by us till we be justified and sanctified how can an evil tree bring forth good fruit Nor can we understand any good work which the law doth not require seeing it was tendered under the Covenant of grace Beside our best worksare leavened with many imperfections and debt for the present so these cannot absolve us for bygones or the time to come And whereas the Apostle James chapter 2. speaketh of Justification by workes his purpose there is onlie to declare what justifieth faith Now justifying faith must be a lively working faith and if it be dead it availeth not and if he hint at personal justification which verse 29. implyeth it is before men and that before the Tribunal of GOD there
lamentable that ye resolve your faith into humane testimony yea into that which is a very lie the Popes infallibility Were it not safer to make Scripture your ground then to build upon this sandie foundation and so river your selves incurably into errour Reply You runne out upon the Popes titles till in the end you make him a Demi-God Papist Reply imputing this as that by way of calumny to us Whereas all the Apostles were equal in power and dignity say you Matth. 20. 26. Where brist only forbiddeth spiritual Superiours to exercise that power with pride and tyrrany as did the Princes of the Gentiles but with humility and meekness as himself did Yet he there expresseth a greater and a lesser a superiour and inferiour amongst them as he saith more clearly in Luke 22. 26. he that is amongst you greatest let him be as the lesser and he who is chief as he who would serve them You cite Cyprian saying the Apostles were equal in dignity but suppresing the following words that Christ disposed the order of unity beginning with Peter whom in his epist ad Julianum he calleth both head and root of his Church All that followeth is that Moses spoke unadvisedly the Propher Elisha was ignorant of some things the Prophet Nathan made a retractation and St. Peter controuled the Heavenly vision To shew the Prophets and Apostles were not infallible save in penning the Scripture and so that the Pope is not such This is but a vain rapsodie to colour your own unsetled belief and contradiction in doctrine but nothing against us For suppose they had erred in these things that concerned not their doctrine all that you can inferre by comparison is that the Pope may erre in the like But as in penning the word of GOD they were infallible were they not also in preaching of it Or is not the high Bishop in all Councils as in the representative Church infallible in subscribing approving and confirming her decrees If the same decrees of the Council be infallible So that when you deny the Pope as head with the Bishops in general Councils as chief men to be infallible you deny the infallibility of the Church which I have sufficiently shewed reflecting on your sixth Answer Duply You labour to prove imparity amongst Prote ∣ stants Duply the Apostles from Luke 22. 26. and would have us to believe that the Papal Monarchy is there which is like the consequence of Mr. Vaux in his Catechism proving Image worship from the second Command For it is clear from verse 30. that albeit Kingly government was in the state yet it should not be so in the Church And that tyrranie is not the only thing forbidden here appeareth from this that somewhat is interdicted to Church-men which is granted to others but tyrrany is licensed to none Compare Matth. 20. 25. with Luke 22. 25. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the one place is expressed by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the other Then it is not only inhibited here Beside the 20. Matth. which you call unclear is most clear he that will be greatest seeking to exalt himself shal be least for he shal be abased And be who is called greatest in Luke 22. is opposed to the youngest the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the verse So by this opposition the greatest is the eldest or the greatest in gifts who should be humble self-denyed Ministers as if they were not so priviledged See 1. Peter 5. 3. To the place of Cyprian cited ye answer nothing Only you alleage that I suppress what followeth in stead of the citation you take your self to another place ad Julianum where he caâ—leth Peter first in order and this we do not deny But what will that make for his visible Monarchy For sure I am dic Ecclesiae Matth. 18. will resure that to the worldâ— end This is confirmed by Cyprians own practise for saith he Cyprian epist. 6. ad Clerum de cura Paup Ab initio Episcopatus mei nihil statui agere sine consensis cleri plebis See Cyprian epist 52. al Antonium and there you will perceive that your Pope is not like Cornelius of whom he speaketh for he was chosen Clericorum omnium testimonio plebis qui adfuit suffragio The faithful Martyr was much for peace unity and order and being infested with the Novatians he saith inde sunt nata schismata quod sacerdoti DEI non obtemperatur and telleth that by way of regrate But when he writteth to Cornelius he calleth him frater and no more Where then was your Popedom But ye equal your Pope to the Prophets and Apostles who penned the Scripture which is an odious comparison not worthy of an answer But forgetting your self you say the Pope in the Council then it is not the Pope alone of whose Monarchy we are here speaking and ridiculously you subjoyn if the Council be infallible what language is this The Pope is infallible in subscribing the decree of a counsel if the Council be infallible I say neither of them is infallible so your faith is resolved into a lie You would seem to hang the Popes infallibilitie on the sentence of a council if it be so the Pope sealing their decrees is infallible accidentally and relatively not in himself Others hang the infallibility of the Council on the Pope so a fallible council may consequently be infallible and if he ratifie the sentence of a Session it is all one with an Oecumenick-council All these crotcheâ—s are the pillars of your faith which are worm-eaten proppes to which I have spoken formerly in answer to your mentioned reflection 20. Ye make Christ as many Bodies aâ— their be administrations of the Supper § 20 Inst. by that your Transubstantiation Whereas Scripture giveth him but one natural Body which the Heaven must contain till the restitution of all things Act. 3. 21. And we believe in our Creed that he ascended to Heaven from thence he will come to judge quick and dead Ye break not the Bread contrar to the Scripture 1. Cor. 10. 16. Yea ye deny that Bread is there after the consecration contrar both to sense and reason And whereas Christ entered within the Vail not that he should offer himself often An unbloody sacrifice expiatory of sin under the Gospel is contrar to Scripture Heb. 9. 22. Heb. 9. 25. And by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified Heb. 10. 14. Ye make as many bodily offerings of Jesus Christ both for dead and living as there be Masses Reply You have many false accusations Papists Reply as formerly but no witness or warrand It is to be altogether ignorant of our terms to say that we give Jesus Christ as many Bodies as there be administrations of the Sacrament of the Supper For as we teach one and the same Body is given in every one of our administrations So we believe that he ascended to Heaven that the Heaven containeth
him and from thence he shal come to judge the quick and the dead But we believe also that he is really present in the Sacrament in as many places as it is given in Which you nor any man else cannot shew to imply contradiction and yet ye delude the people as if there were an impossibilitie in this When you say we break not the bread it seemeth you know not how either the bread is broken or given If we for greater decencie prepare the bread in a just greatness for one man before it be given so did ye of old cutting it in pieces albeit now ye break and bite about What you say in end of his once offering himself in a bloody way on the Cross it is true but if you understand it in an unbloodie manner on the Altar it is false Otherwise Christ should not be a Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedeck Psalm 110. Sir for all these passages of Scripture which you have cited in thiâ— your eight Answer which you see make nothing either against us or for you look to the Touch-stone of the reformed Gospel and you will see the Scripture altogether ours Duply You pass over all the scriptures Prote ∣ stants Duply which I have cited against Christs corporall presence or bodily offering with a strong denyall calling it a calumnie Sir is this right reasoning think you Sure I am if whole Christ be corporally present in every sacrament then when it is administred at Rome Millan c. there be as many bodies there as sacraments And by this tenet doe not the words of consecration make Christ on the altar as wel as by the holy Ghost he was coÌ„ceived in the womb of the Virgin And doth nor his corporall presence take away his ascension sitting at the right hand of God and his return because he is bodily already here He is a Priest for ever by the infinit vertue of his once offering which needeth not be repeated as the Apostle reasoneth well seeing it is not imperfect but only applyed by faith and this is all our salvation As for the distinction of a bloody and unbloody offering it is a device like the rest of your humane inventions Shew me scripture for iâ— if you can This you are bound to do at the least seeing now we are on scripture arguments and I brought scripture to the contrar You call it real presence only I am for real presence spiritualities are realities Your tenet if you understand it is corporal presence See Bell. de Ench. lib. 1. c. 2. 5. the body of Christ is in the sacrament with the whole magnitude thereof and that same body which is in heaven is on the altar either then he must have many bodies or els one body having magnitude and dimensions must be in many places at once in heaven and earth both which is impossible seeing it implyeth contradiction Theodoret. dial 2. against the Eutichian heresie telleth us that the sacramentall signes change nor their nature but remaine in their own substance and shape It is said Iohn 6. 56. He who eateth my flesh shall live by me And ye interpret this place of sacramentall eating ergo all who take the sacrament shall live according to your glosse Although Christ had a spiritual body after his resurrection yet he had a true body because he said to his disciples feel and see saith Aug. ad Dardanum ep 57. Now then he hath true dimensions and when he appeared to the Apostle Paul going to Damascus Aquinas thinketh that for the time he left heaven Summa q. 57. And when he came in amongst the Disciples the doors being shut Theodoret saith that they made passage for him as their Creator And the ancient Hierom speaketh with the scripture that the Angel removed the stone from the grave Although his risen body be glorified yet it is a real body and they who are for transubstantiation make it phantastick without any warrand from the word For Bellarmin acknowledgeth in the forecited place that this tenet of corporall presence cannot be clearly proven from scripture and lib. 3. de Euch. cap. 19. Tollitur verborum Domini obscuritas per patrum consensum And Andradius de caena Domini Licet transubstantiatio ex scriptura probari nequâ—t tamen furor est non credere ecclesiae hac inâ—e And Scotus lib. 4 dist 11. uoÌ„ extat ullus locus scripturae cogens nos admitte e transubstantiationem sine ecclesiae declaratione And addeth that ante Lateran concilium non fuit dâ—gma fidei Further this taketh away the sutableness betwixt the sign and thing signified If transubstantiation be the bread and wine nourish not the body How can accidents nowrish the body How can they be without a subject How Capernaitan like can reprobats ear the body of Christ You referre me to the Touchstone I wish rather you had touched pertinently scripture or reason in your answers then that you should shift satisfaction to the Reader with a reference to a book which possibly he cannot find I have seen that alreadie and an answere toâ—r printed twelve years ago by Dr. Guild who is now at his rest and his answer is yet unanswered if you have time it may be worth the while to peruse it for your conviction Now I beseech you to lay aside interest prejudice passion and weigh again these twenty scripture-arguments it may please the Lord to discover how Antiscriptural your way is who knowes what the Lord may do by weak instruments when his word and truth is on their side Question ninth But seeing we mantaine Papists quest 9 the Apostles Creed why did ye separat from us Answer first The Apostles creed commonly Prote ∣ stants Ans 1 so called is a notable confession to which we owe all respect and do make constant use of it Yet your own Lessius de vera fide in his appendix page 17. sayeth that symbolum Apostolicum is not sufficient test for knowing a pure Church Ye know Socinians will say it who are scarce Christians It mentioneth nothing to be believed concerning the fall of man the worke of conversion the two sacraments which are sealing Ordinances So it is the whole scripture which tryeth best Christians and Churches We did separate because of Idolatrous superstitious worship by setting up Imagerie which the Lord hateth Deut. 16. 22. Secondly We separat only from these Ans 2. errours and cleave to the Scriptures and primitive pure antiquity Thirdly We were persecuted fugati fuimus Ans 3. non fugâ—mus what fire faggot bell book and candle could do that we endured before we break off Fourthly when the light of the Gospel Ans 4. broke up we had a clear call for separation Rev. 18. 4. Reply In your ninth Answer you say you did cleave to Scripture and pure antiquitie Papists Reply and only left our errours You had said better that you had left Scripture and pure antiquitie by so doing
other differences we are not for one GOD one Faith one Baptism it is absurd to speak so Question thirteenth May there not as yet Papists qu. 13 be an accommodation and union betwixt you and us Answer Will ye be like the Church at Rome to which the Apostle Paul did wâ—ite Prote ∣ stants Ans 1 his Epistle we will presently accord with any prosessing that faith and not destroying it by contradicting consequences and practices But ye are no more like that Church of Rome except in name then a strumpet is like to a Virgin The Epistle to the Romans is now against the Romans witness the point of Justification and subjection to the higher powers Secondly Will ye take the Scripture for the only rule of faith worship and manners We differ from none such But ye regard not the Scripture so much as your own traditions For ye fainzie that it is imperfect obscure must have an authoritie from your word otherwise that it is not to be believed Thirdly Those who have intended that work have lost their labour and thanks at all hands as Cassander Antonius de Dominis Barnesius Forbesius What agreemeÌ„t can the Temple of God have with Idols 2. Cor. â— 14. Reply In your 13. Section you answer to a Papists Reply Question which no Catholick would have made if ye understand by an accommodation betwixt you and us such as are in Scottish Trysts We granting something to you and ye something to us For as to gain the whole world a man should not lose his own soul so neither can be quyt one article of his faith without which it is impossible to please God But your way being better asking only two conditions to make this so much desired agreement The first is if ye will be like that Church of Rome to which the Apostle Paul did write his Epistle And the second is that we will take scripture for a rule We most willingly grant you both not taking scripture as every bungler who wresteth it but according to the exposition of the Church and the unanimous consent of the fathers Appoint the meeting where ye please on these terms He challenge no moe calumnies on this Question seeing now we are in terms of agreement having sufficiently confuted them before Duply You say no Catholick would have moved the question Are ye nâ—â— for unitie in the Lord amongst all Christians where is Prote ∣ stants Duply 1 your charitie now I remember you said once nothing here was mentioned by me but what was mentioned by others but now you graunt this hath nor come to your ears formerly this is strange Have you not seen Grotius and de Sancta Clara who move the same wheel At first you seem to be against all accommodation asmuch as against all reformation You cannot quite on article not unum jot a saith Bellarmin otherwise your Church might be declared fallible therefore such as hanker after reconciliation with you unless they mind to come up your length will prove fools in the end and lose all their labour Yet on a sudden you forget your self accepting of these terms offered but in repetition you embezle them unfaithfully For first will ye be like that Church to which the Apostle Paul did writ in point of justification by faith and subjection to the Magistrat These two you leave out being conscious that ye are contrar to divine direction in both these And how cometh it to pass that when the Apostle chap. 16. saluteth so many Saints at Rome he omitteth the Pope If he was then head of the Church and maketh no mention of his supremacie nor of their subjectioÌ„ to him which is summa rei one of your fundamentals seeing chap. 13. he ordained them for conscience sake to be subject to Nero. The world may see that the Apostle Paul hath been no Papist Secondly When you propound the second condition it is propounded lame barely you say that ye hold the Scripture for a ruleâ— but I said for the only rule of faith worship and manners Hold that then ye renounce traditians in matters of faith for the law of the Lord is perfect Ps 19. The Popes infallibility and univeâ—sal supremacie your latine worship communion under one kind prayers to Saints and for the dead Purgatory all which are clearly confuted by Scripture So if ye do not adhere to these conditions the meeting will be to smal purpose where ever it be appointed Justin Martyr Expos recta fidei saith Amongst the children of the Church matters divine must not be ordered and directed according to mens reason and thoughts but our speach and interpretation of them should be sitted to the sense and will of the Spirit of GOD. Basil in Exercit. de Fide It is a manifest defection from the faith and a clear evidence of pride either to reject any of these things which the Scripture contain or to bring in as a point of faith any thing which is not written in the word and he citeth that of our blessed Lord Iohn 10. 5. My sheep hear my voice a stranger they will not hear but flee from him Hilar. lib. 1. de Trinit when we speak of divine matters let us give to GOD the knowledge of himself and let us with all veneration follow his sayings for he is a meâ—t witness to himself who is not known but by himself Aug. lib. 6. Conf. cap. 5. Thou hast perswâ—ded me O GOD that not these men who believe these books which thou in all Ages hast founded upon thy authority are to be blamed but such as believe them not neither are they to be heard If any perchance should say to me whence knowest thou these books to have been ministred to man-kind by the Spirit of the one and most true GOD even that very same thing was mostly to be believed Aug. lib. 2. de Baptismo contra Donatist as Let us not bring false ballanceâ— wherein we may weigh what we will and as we will according to our own arbitriment saying this is heavy that is light but let us bring the divine ballance out of the holy Scriptures as the Lords treasurie and let us weigh in it what is more heavy and weighty Yea let us not weigh only but also acknowledge scriptuval truths to be weighed and determined alreadie by the Lord. Si Scriptura habeat controversiam ex eadem Scriptura adhibitis ejus testibus terminâ—tur Aug. de doctr Chr. lib. 3. cap. 28. Papists Quest. 14 Question fourteenth We are still gaiâ—ing Proselyts from you but few turne off from us and become members of your Church Answere Your pelf and policie is greater Prote ∣ stants Ans 1 then ours hereby simple soules are ensnared Secondly Ye give indulgencies for looseness this catcheth prophaine ones who love to live at random but without some such carnall design or prejudice we hear not that any turn off from us Thirdly Have not sundrie left Rome in the integrity of their heart and closed
uncleanness which would make chaste ears to â—ingle And that men who in hainously are not bound to repent imediatly as it is fully proved by Reverend Learned Mr. MENZIES in his Papismus Lucifugus pag. 158. to 169. And when it is defended that minus probabile may be chosen although it have no ground in scripture contrar to more probable grounds and the stream of Doctors doth not this open a door to make the may of Christianity broad whereas the scripture calleth it strait and narrow Thus ye gaine proselites And it is observable that manâ— loose livers in the land who are adversarieâ— to the power and puritie of Religion hate to be reformed do encline to Popery And to me it is not minus probabile that it is only upon this account We are not against fasting chastity mortification Nor do we say that men sin not willingly or that good workes are impossible yea we hold them necessar to salvation Only we deny that faln man can be justified by the workes of the law otherwise we needed not a Saviour not a Gospell-remedy It is your ordinar way to mistate questions and then intend a skirmish which is easie work this is a sinfull and shallow evasion Thirdly You fall out with bauling expressions which rational men cannot value much and scoâ—fe at these worthies who did take their lives in their hands and closed with persecuted truth neither for gaine nor for honor but for conscience sake Was not this a commendable duty If self denyall be not a chief ingredient in Christian performances I know not the Gospell You assert that it was blindness not integrity I averse it was integrity and not blindness Who art thou that judgest another mans servant remember thou shalt be judged You talk much concerning the authority and unity which is amongst you but some who were at Rome and have come not long ago from you to us againe tell what sort of integritie puritie and chastitie is amongst you So it is no wonder albeit many tongues and pennâ— be employed to pull down that whorish Babell which ye call Zion Fourthly You imply that none can be saved but such as are subject to the Pope Therefore our run-awayes must nor be apostats with you for they are Prodigals returned and lost sheep found When I pray you went they from you to us Were they not baptized in our Church and partakers of all ordinances with us till of late Then I pose you and them again whither ye damn all who are not Popish and judge them unconverted If they be Hereticks in your sense this must follow Yet you have nor the confidence to speak it directly And sure I am Scripture requireth not subjection to the Pope as an article of the Creed If without this â— man cannot be saved albeit he believe and live like the Gospel the Apostle Paul was no chosen Vessel which is contrar to Scripture there was no Pope in his dayes nor long after that Your Church hath been visible by bell book and candle fire faggot pomp policie Your Pastours are more for the fleece then the flock Ye are superstitiouâ— by addition substractioÌ„ multiplication without any warrand Your Ceremonies are partly Paganish partly Jewish and for the most Schismatick so not religious nor venerable Your miracles woÌ„ders are such that it is good for you to have them wrought in America and told in Europe Like are ye to him who cometh with lies and wonderâ— 2. Thess 2. 9. Your conscience can witness what Leger-demain is in these And it is our way to try miracles by the Scripture I wish Infidels were converted to the Christian faith and not to a faction By the Scripture noâ— by fopperies and military Compulsators Stephen the Apostles and some primitive Fathers were Martyrs but they died not in the Romish Faith as it is now mantained And how can your Church be called Catholick which is a particular one wherein be many dissenters It is not strange to us albeit ye indulge them who runne away and Apostatize from us but it is strange why they have done so and what hath sascinated them to burst all bonds and swallow on a sudden the whole bulk of Popery It requireth an Ostrich stomach to digest such iron Where in did Gospel-truths Gospel-worship or their mother and nurse weary them testifie against her if they can Fifthly You say we have Faith without unity then you grant us faith and our unity in fundamentals is more then your own A Church without a head We acknowledge no Pope head of our Church Christ is our head and the visible Government of the Church is Aristocratical not Monarchical the mystical Members of his Body are united in him so we are not a body without united members Neither want we a Judge in controversal matters It is known that many points of Christianity cannot be judged by râ—en because the Kingdom of Grace is within us and consisteth not in meat or drink but righteousness peace and joy in the holy Ghost Rom. 14. 17. Who will say that the hidden man in the heart can be cognosced by any external living judge on earth The spiritual man â—udgeth all things but he himself is judged of no man 1. Cor. 2. 15. The written word is the rule of this and other such cases For other matters we have Councils and Church Ruleâ—s appointed by the supream Judge who are bound to discern according to Scripture and all are appointed to obey them in the Lord so we have not a Law without a Judge The golden Altur is our Altar we have sacrifices of Prayer and Praises and one living sacrifice is better then many carcases that is reasonable service Rom. 12. 1. Then we have order and decencie and such positives as set forth the worship in a Gospel way without pâ—mpous observation therefore we lack not an Altar Sacrifices and Ceremonies in such manner as Gospel-work under the New Testament requireth Our Sacraments are instruments to seal and sanctifie our rule is infallible for it is Scripture the grounds of our faith are such as will not make us ashamed for we have his revealed will and word for it Therefore it is a calumny to say we have Sacraments which do not sanctifie Doctrine without infallibility and Belief without a ground If our Preachers had runne unsent the Lord had not sealed their Ministrie with such success Ier. 23. 32. It may be spoken without vanity to the praise of free-grace that there be many real sincere serious solid Christians in BRITTAIN Blessed be the Lord we go not without our CoÌ„verts who can speak with any adversary in the gate And they will and do bless our Ministry upon the brink of eternity which hath been the power of GOD to their Salvation So our Ministry is not without a call we say not that any divine command is in it self impossible to be keeped but that fallen man through his own fault is imperfect in obedience