manner these men argue except say they the Presbyters by the imposition of their hands upon their Disciples can inable them on a sudden to speake with strange tongues to foretell things to come and heal the sicke c. we will not acknowledge them to be true Elders but let them do all these things by the imposition of their hands and then wee will acknowledge them for a true Presbytery See the vanity of these men and the instability of their faith by their own confession miracles will make them believe any thing if we may credit their own words though never so contrary to their judgement and to the faith once delivered to the Saints It is well known to the Learned that the Apostles and those Primitive christians had extraordinary and wonderfull gifts that ravisht the world then into admiration and it is confest also by all understanding Christians that those wonder-working miracles were but temporary as the miraculous feeding of the people with Manna in the Wildernesse where they were fellow-commoners with the Angels and continued but till they came into the Land that flowed with Milk and Honey So those miracles of the Primitive christians continued but for a time till the Gospell and the truth of the Christian faith and doctrine was confirmed and established which being once done and the holy Scriptures which were to be the rule of faith to the end of the world being left to posterity and to which we are tyed and commanded not to be wise above that which is written 1 Cor. 4. 6. and forbid in Gal. 1. 8 9. to believe otherwise then we have been taught though the Apostles or an Angell from heaven should teach otherwise after I say the Doctrine of the Christian Faith and Religion was confirmed the ordinary working of Miracles ceased And it is said of Antichrist in 2 Thess chap. 2. That he shall come with strong delusions and lying wonders and with all deceiveableness in them that perish because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved So that I cannot sufficiently wonder to see the dealing of these men who in these dayes expect and look for miracles to confirme their faith when notwithstanding we are forwarned to take heed of all false delusions and commanded to the contrary Shew us some miracles say they and then we will believe you are true Presbyters So dealt the Jewes with Christ What signe shewest thou that wee may beleeve in thee But when Christ had shewed them signe upon signe and miracle upon miracle were they ever the more convinced Did those miracles create beliefe in them No surely but rather hardned them and made them blaspheme When he cast out Devils they say he did it by the Prince of Devils So without doubt if the Presbyters had those gifts of miracles that they could gratifie these men with daily prodigies and workes of wonder they would then say they came with lying wonders and with the working of Satan and they would make the world abhor them the more There is an old saying that hee must rise early and never goe to bed that will please all men and truly it would be not onely difficult but an impossible thing for any State or great Councell were it never so wise to please all the people under them God himselfe nor Moses nor Aaron his servants could please the Israelites though they saw never such wonders continually before their eyes to confirme their authority yea they told Moses and Aaron to their faces that they tooke too much upon them And afterwards they cast off Gods own government God himselfe as the Lord complains to Samuel in 1 Samuel and would set up a governement after the modell of their owne braine as it is at large set downe in that Booke And not long after they changed the manner of Gods worship in Ieroboams time and taught the feare of God as the Lord complaineth Isay 29. after the precepts of men and rejected Gods commandements as Christ saith Matth. 15. and Marke 7. So that what they thought best in their owne eyes that was ever best pleasing unto them They would not content themselves with the Written Word though they were never so often by Moses and all the rest of the Prophets commanded to cleave unto it saying to the Law and to the Testimony Isay 8. Even so it is now in these dayes they content not themselves with that Ordinance that is set downe in the Written Word but say Come shew us some miracles and then wee will beleeve you are a right Presbyterie Our Saviour speaking to the Jewes concerning Saint Iohn the Baptist and Himselfe Iohn saith hee came neither eating nor drinking and ye say behold hee hath a Devill the Sonne of Man came both eating and drinking and ye say hee is a Wine-bibber a friend of Publicans and Sinners So that whatsoever method or way God used to convert them they cavil'd against it and were never satisfied alwayes resisting the Spirit of God as Stephen told them in Act. 7. So now in these our times they looke for miracles and a new way of teaching But all good Christians are forbid to listen after or to give heed to miracles and are sent unto Moses and the Prophets Luke 16. and are commanded to search the Scripture John 5. Yea our Saviour himselfe in the person of Abraham Luke 16. saith That if men will not beleeve Moses and the Prophets they will not be perswaded by miracles and I am confident that could the Presbyters doe all those miracles these men desire they would the more reproach them and exclaime against them and affirme they wrought by the Devill as the Jews told our Saviour he did I must confesse I am of a contrary opinion to these men not only in the matter of miracles but in all external performances for I am instructed in the holy scriptures that the Devill can transforme himselfe into an Angell of light and that the Deceivers and false Teachers shall come forth in sheeps clothing and for outward appearance shalequalize if not exceed the faithfullest truest Pastors and Ministers of Christ and therefore we are in speciall commanded to take heed of such and for my particular if any men whatsoever of never such seeming sanctity sufficient abilities unblameable life should come forth and teach any other Doctrine of Faith Manners or Government then that I have been taught in the holy Scripture and should confirme this their Doctrine with never so many miracles I will still continue stedfast in the Doctrine of the Apostles and cleave unto the written Word and will never beleeve contrary to that though I should undergoe the greatest misery or be exposed to the greatest want by it that any man ever saw for I know that all these momentary trials and afflictions are not worthy that exceeding weight of glory that shall be revealed And for this very point of the Presbytery in that sense I take
doctrine to prove this their opinion to be legitimate So that in this point of their beliefe the Papists and the Independents agree against all the current and the whole Schooles of all the most Orthodoxe Protestant Divines who hold they were Christians Secondly they agree in this also that both of them hold that the forme of a church must ever be visible and apparent So that were their never so many Assemblies of Christians in a city or country and all beleevers if they be not cast into such and such a mold and forme then theyare not churches properly so called but in their dialect they are either Heritickes or no Christians but proclaimed enemies of Iesus Christ and his Kingdom So that according to the Papists doctrine all those Christians that are not within the limits compasse and bounds that they have circumscribed their church with and are not under that visible forme of government they have appointed they accompt them all Heritickes and no churches as all men know And in the same manner do the Independents unchurch all churches in the world but such as in their opinion are cast into a church mould according to the New Testament forme and have their distinct Officers and Members united into one body respectively That is to say speaking in their owne language all such congregations and assembles as are fluid and are not joyned and united together by an explcite particular Covenant fixed in their officers and Members having a Presbytery of their own with absolute Soverainty and power within themselves Independent they are no churches and all those Christians that are not within the compasse and limits of this their new mould or modell they proclaime them enemies of Iesus Christ and his kingdome and accompte of them as a company of infidels and affirme that they are no true churches nor churches properly so called So that we see that both the Papists and Independents agree in this that they bound and limit all churches to such and such an externall forme so that wheresoever that is wanting according to their dialect though otherwise they have the preaching of the Gospel the right administration of the Sacraments and the true invocation of God they are no churches properly so called And both of them farther accorde and agree in this that the forme of their churches consists in the distinction of their Officers and members and the uniting of them into one body respectively they must not be fluid as they speake but they must be fixed in their Officers and Members and having a Presbytery of their owne with absolute soverainty and jurisdiction within themselves Independent But in this the Papists deale far more honestly then the Independents for they have in many large volumes fully set downe the modell of their government and what it is and shew how they are fixed in their Officers and Members and for their chiefe Officers they say they are the Pope and his Presbytery at Rome the Cardinals Patriarchs Primates Metropolitans Archbishops c. and we know where to finde them and what their modell and government is to a hare But what the Independents modell is or will be no man could yet ever learne but by conjecture which I must confesse seemes a wonderfull thing to me that they should thus at pleasure unchurch and unchristian all churches and Christians as not formed into a church mould after the New Testament forme and yet never declare what that forme and mold is And yet this is their daily wicked practice So that all men may see if they will not put out their eyes that in this and many other of their tenents and opinions the Independents are but a company of Mungrell Papists and would have all men belieeve with an implicit faith as their Churches believe and take all they speake as Oracles though it be never so groundlesse But we have learned Christ better then so who is the Prophet and King of his Church and who hath commanded us to heare him Matth. 17. and to obey his voyce Iohn 10. and not to give eare unto strangers And from his blessed Word we have learned these two lessons the first that wheresoever the Gospel of the Kingdome of Iesus Christ is faithfully and truly Preached by Ministers sent by him and where this Everlasting Gospell is imbraced and believed and yeelded obedience unto by the people and where there is the right Administration of the holy Sacraments and the true invocation of God they are a true church or churches although they be fluid and be not fixed in their Officers and members and have not that externall forme either the Papists or the Independents speake of and for this our faith we have warrant from Gods holy Word Secondly we are taught out of the holy Scriptures also that there may be a true church or churhes in many nations and kingdomes where they injoy not all the Ordinances in a publicke manner nor where their very meetings together are not allowed unto them by authority for all such as confine a church or churches to these externall formes they speak of they confound the essence and substance of a church with the adjuncts and Accideuts of it whereas churches may be true churches and yet want the externall forme of Government as may by innumerable places of holy Scripture be proved as for instances In Israel where God had set up his owne worship and established a forme of Government and commanded that it should punctually be observed yet we read in the 2 of the Chron. chap. 15. ver the 3. these words Now for a long season Israel was without the true God and without a teaching Priest and without law So that from this place we may gather that their did not then appeare any externall forme of a church no not in Israel when the true God was not publickly known amongst them and yet notwithstanding God had there his true church amongst them yea in the greatest height of Idolatry when all the Prophets were persecuted and lay hid in Caves yet at that time also God had seven thousand that never bowed knee to Baal So that it is evident that it is not the externall forme that is absolutely required for the making of a true church but it may be a true church without that externall appearance they speak of For a church is one thing and the outward forme and discipline is another And truly if a man will not suffer himselfe willingly to be deluded with appearances and naked shaddowes for the truth it selfe and will but consider the great variety and change of the church in respect of the outward alteration of the government of it in all ages after God himself had set it up in Abrahams Family and consider it in all its peregrinations and pilgrimages and that after God had given unto Abraham and his seed such directions for the setting up of his worship wheresoever he and his posterity should come and
speaking there to his Disciples saith I have chosen you and ordained you that you should go and bring forth fruite and that your fruite should remaine that is I have chose you to preach the Gospell and convert men which is the fruite of preaching the Word and causeth the multiplication of Beleevers for Faith commeth by hearing Romans 10. Now this Scripture is here fulfilled for it is said that the Word of God grew and multiplyed that is it brought forth the great fruite and increase of multitudes of Beleevers and converted many notwithstanding all the persecutions that were raised against it and the Church So that the conclusion must necessarily follow from the premises and it is most apparent that there were many Congregations of Beleevers in Jerusalem after the Persecution But in the 21 Chapter 20 Verse there is a place that putteth an end to this Controversie and with the which I will conclude my first assertion In these words Thou seest Brother saith Saint James and the Presbyters of Jerusalem to Saint Paul how many ten thousands for so it is in the Originall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Jewes there are which beleeve and they are all zealous of the Law In this place the Evangelist speakes of the Inhabitants of Ierusalem that were Beleevers and had their abode there and not of strangers as our Brethren suppose and such as they conceive were come up to Jerusalem at that time to the feast of Pentecost at which they thinke Paul then was which opinion of theirs might be confuted with many reasons if it were necessary some of the which I shall briefly set downe As first it is well knowne that the feast of Pentecost lasted but one day and that in the time of Wheat-harvest when ordinarily but few came to Jerusalem Besides none of the Jewes that lived out of the Countrey of Judaea and the confines of Israel were enjoyned to come to that feast or any other of the feasts so farre as I remember neither indeed could they dwelling in such remote countryes except they spent all their time in running about So that as I conceive is was arbitrary in the Iewes that dwelt in other countries whether they would come or no to all those severall Feasts though I have this opinion of some of the most zealous of them and best ablest and richest of them and that had time and leasure that they would spare neither paines nor costs so they might enjoy the Ordinances and the society of their Brethren Besides we reade but of very few strangers that were at Ierusalem at this time when Paul was there and they were them of Asia which were persecutors rather then believers as the story relateth verse 27 28. Now the multitude of which there is mention made in this place in the 22. verse they were all Believers and were inhabitants and such as were well knowne to Saint Iames and the Presbyters and were all strangers to Paul and such as had onely heard that Paul taught all the Jewes that were among the Gentiles to forsake Moses c. And therefore none of these many ten thousands were of the believing Iewes amongst the Gentiles for they are clearly distinguished from them for it is said that those Myriads of believing Iewes were informed that Paul taught all the Iewes among the Gentiles c. They then were informed that Paul had taught others The Iewes among the Gentiles were they who Paul had so taught and how could they be in the number of them that were informed Had they neede to be informed by others what Saint Paul had taught themselves Therefore they must needs be the believing Iewes of Jerusalem and the inhabitants and dwellers there So that out of the Text I thus argue Many ten thousands of Believers could not all meet at any one time or in any one place or congregation to enjoy all the Ordinances to edification but of necessity must be distributed into diverse and sundry congregations and assemblies if they would partakes in all acts of worship and be edified But in the Church of Jerusalem after all the persecutions there were many ten thousands believers Ergo they could not all meet together at any one time or in any one place or congregation for the enjoying of all acts of worship to edification but of necessity must be distributed into diverse and sundry congregations and assemblies they would partake in all the Ordinances and be edified For the Major all reason will assent unto it for the Minor the text it selfe confirmes it neither doth the word Myrias or Myriades ever expresse lesse then ten thousand as might out of many places of Scripture be proved and divers authors And truly to any man but of an ordinary understanding it would seem strange yea an incredible thing that Jerusalem the Theater of so many miracles and where there were twelve Apostles and the most of them for the most part resident and so many famous Preachers and Presbyters and who at the first beginning of their Ministry after they had received the gifts of the holy Ghost by their powerfull preaching and a few miracles had in a short time converted above eight thousand people besides great multitudes both of men and women besides Priests and who preached dayly in the Temple and from house to house and that for above twenty yeares together as moâ—t of the Apostles did without interruption that in all this time of the Gospells spring and that in so populous and numerous a city that all these famous Ministers and Teachers should convert no more to the faith then might all meet in one Congregation I say all this will seem strange to any rationall man And as it is against all reason so it is against the expresse words of the holy Scriptures as hath out of many places in the foregoing discourse bin sufficiently made appear and out of the place last cited which doth affirme That there were many ten thousand beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem after all the persecutions all which could not meet in any one place to enjoy all Acts of Worship no not in a few Whether therfore it hath not by this and the many other testimonies of holy Scripture and the arguments out of both been sufficiently proved That there were many Congregations in the Church of Ierusalem I report my selfe to any that have not the pearle of prejudice in the eye of their judgement And this shall suffice to have spoke for the proof of my first assertion But as in all their former discourse I faithfully set down what Mr Knollys and I. S. had to say by way of answer and confutation to those severall Arguments they opposed so I shall now in the same manner truly relate what Mr Knollys hath to reply by way of refutation to this my last Argument and then I will come to what my brother Burton hath to gainsay and reply to him in order Master Knollys his words in way of answer
of these baptized persons were of the Church of Ierusalem and for ought I know saith he or the Doctor either many of those baptized persons might be in the other Churches of Iudaea yea the most of them and but few in Ierusalem it may be no more but those hundred and twenty mentioned Acts 1. 13 14 15. to whom were added about three thousand soules And in the ninth page he saith the text well considered onely holds forth that the number of men was made up five thousand Thus he So that in the reckoning of my brother Burton and Master Knollys the whole number of beleevers in Ierusalem at first and last was but five thousand in all Now I refer my selfe unto the judicious and godly Reader whether these men have not made false Musters or no to use some of I. S. his language and whether or no my brother Burton and Master Knollys have not with-held the truth from the people in unrighteousnesse Rom. 1. And whether they have not done most sacrilegiously unjustly and wickedly in thus robbing the Church at Ierusalem of so many thousand Members For first they subduct and cut off all those that were baptized by Iohn the Baptist and Christs disciples and all those devout men and true worshippers in Ierusalem spake of in the second chapter and take no notice of them Secondly whereas it is related in the second chapter verse 47. that besides those three thousand soules that were converted by Peters Sermon that the Lord added daily unto the Church such as should be saved they subduct and cut off those likewise and make no mention of them And whereas in the fourth chapter the number of those that were converted by the second miracle and sermon is related to be about five thousand men they cut off three thousand of these also and whereas in the fifth chapter it is said that Beleevers were more added to the Lord multitudes both of men and women that is to say many more great Assemblies and Congregations then were before all those in like manner they subduct and pare off and whereas in the sixth chapter it is related that the word of God increased and the number of the disciples multiplyed in Jerusalem greatly and a great company of the Priests were obedient to the faith all those likewise they defalcate with all the other increases of multitudes the Scripture speaks of with the many ten thousands recorded in the 21. chapter neither doe they make any mention of them or take any notice of them but casting up the whole summe they bring in the totall reckoning and number of all the Beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem at first and last to be but five thousand in all and all this they have done out of their perverse wilfull and obstinate wickednesse to the end they may deceive the ignorant and simple people which is a most horrid sinne and wickednesse in them thus to juggle who they could not delude if they were indeed truly informed and did not they and their complices with-hold the truth from them in unrighteousnesse for were the people truly informed that in the Church of Jerusalem there were many ten thousands al intelligible yea but ordinary understanding men and women yea very children would conclude That they could not then all possibly meet in one congregation or a few to partake in all acts of worship and therefore of necessity they must be distributed into divers congregations and assemblies all which notwithstanding made still but one Church and therefore they would gather that they must necessarily be combined under one Presbyterie and be dependent upon it This I affirme every rationall creature would from grounded reason be able to gather if they were rightly instructed whether therefore it be not the highest point of dishonesty both in my brother Burton Master Knollys and all those Teachers of the congregationall way thus to abuse the people and whether this be not in them all to with-hold the truth in unrighteousnesse I leave it to the judgement of all the truly godly and such as make conscience of their wayes and dealings And now I come to what I. S. that Groll hath to say to my second Proposition for hee must be answered also or else he will exceedingly triumph In the 11. page of his Flagelli hee hath these words by way of answer I am not saith hee satisfied by any thing that hath beene alleaged by the Doctor that the Church of Jerusalem consisted of many congregations and assemblies and that upon the scruples before instanced Thus I. S. expresseth his non-satisfaction in that place and in the tenth page for farther answer hee thus declareth himself First saith he you say the brethren themselves acknowledge that all the Beleevers in Ierusalem were all Members of that Church If you meane that Church spake of Acts the 15. 4. J deny and say it is a grosse presumption and begging of the question to say that wee acknowledge all the Beleevers in Ierusalem to be Members of that one ministring Church especially if you reckon all Iohns Disciples and converts to those Beleevers for as there was a good space of time after there were multitudes of Beleevers ere there was such a Church so for any thing hath yet beene brought to the contrary it is probable enough that the true Beleevers which were not so many after you have cut off Iohns converts I meane those that did sticke in Iohns Baptisme which were multitudes and temporary Beleevers which ceased to walke with Christ which were not a few and strangers which did afterwards disperse themselves into severall countries those that did remaine at Ierusalem did gradually grâ—w up unto Church fellowship and it amounts to no lesse then to the former begging and presumption that which sollowes viz. that this Proposition is manifest out of the Scripture viz. that they that were converted are said to be added to the Church For what saith I. S. if that be to be understood of the Church Catholick and not a particular church It may not be denied that the word Church is often so used in the New Testament and it is suspicious that the three thousand converted at once were not so soone instructed in church fellowship as converted c. Thus worshipfull Sir I. S. disputeth whose words are a very farrago of errors and vanity by which hee sufficiently declareth unto the world that hee is in the number of those Masters Saint Paul speaketh of 1 Tim. chap. 1. verse 7. who desiring to be Teachers of the Law understand neither what they say nor whereof they affirme and confident I am that there was never a more arrogant and a more presumptuoas sot that ever put pen to paper then this I. S. and whose words are guilty of more ignorance and fuller of the emptinesse of selfe conceitednesse and more lyable to exception for hee is not only a stranger to the Independent doctrine and to the Church of Jerusalem hee
Presbyters or in common councell with them those actions I say were done and acted by men which were Apostles but not as they were Apostles exclusively so as they might not act them under another notion neither will our brethren affirme it for if the Apostles did preach take the trust of the goods of the Church ordaine Officers as Apostles exclusively and in an extraordinary way and as by a priviledge peculiar to themselves it would follow from thence that none may doe any of those things but Apostles which the Brethren will not assent unto as for some instances In that ordination of Deacons in the sixth of the Acts the Apostles there acted partly as Apostles and partly as Presbyters for in constituting an Office in the Church which was not before they acted their Apostolicall authority but in ordaining men to that office which the Church had chosen they did act as Presbyters and there is no doubt but the Brethren will yeeld to this for if they will not grant that the Apostles did herein act partly as Apostles partly as Presbyters they must then accord that they acted either onely as Presbyters or onely as Apostles If onely as Presbyters thence it will follow that all Presbyters have power not onely to ordaine men but to erect a new office in the Church If onely as Apostles then hence is no warrant for Presbyters so much as to ordaine men into any office nor for so much as to meet together to consult about acts of government either in a Presbyterian or in a Synodicall way and by this meanes all Church government would speedily be overthrowne Neither is it a difficult thing in our Brethren or any other man to distinguish betweene these two for looke by what infallible rule they make some thing in the practise of the Apostles to bee not onely a patterne and president for imitation but even a proofe of institution yet decline other things practised by the same Apostles as things not onely by institution not commanded to us but not permitted to bee imitated by us By the same rule they may infallibly distinguish betweene what they acted as Apostles and what they acted as Presbyters and as ordinary Counsellors Iudges and Governours and withall they may infer and conclude that what they acted as Presbyters and by joynt and common consent it was to give a patterne and president to all Presbyters and Synods in all succeeding ages and as the taking in of the consent of the Church in the choice of Deacons Act. 6. was to give a patterne for the sufferage and voice of the people in all Churches to the end of the world in chosing of their Deacons so for another instance as there were many Congregations in the Church of Ierusalem and divers Assemblies and all these congregations made but one Church and the Apostles and Presbyters who were Officers governed that joyntly and by a common Councell as our Brethren acknowledge Here likewise they left a patterne and president to all ages for severall Congregations and Assemblies in a Citie or vicinity to unite into one Church and for the Officers and Presbyters of these Congregations to governe that Church joyntly in a Colledge and Presbytery And for a third instance as the Apostles and Presbyters meet together in a Synodicall way and the Apostles in that Assembly acted not by an Apostolicall and infallible spirit no more then the Presbyters did as when they were writing of Scripture but stating the Question and debating it from Scripture in an ordinary way as it is at large discussed in Acts 15. which wee never reade they did when they writ the Scripture and having by disputing arguing and searching the Scripture found what was the good and acceptable will of God thereupon they determined the question saying it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and us as the Assembly now of Divines or any other for ought I know upon like assurance of Scripture warrant may doe In this action also and their so doing the Apostles and Presbyters left an example and president to all the Presbyters in all succeeding ages what they should doe upon the like occasions for the deciding of controversies and differences of opinions in Religion viz. To congregate and meet together in some one place to state the questions and to debate from Scripture and to follow the written Word as their rule in all things and whatsoever they doe to doe it by joynt consent and the the Common-councell of them all or by the most voices but in all these their proceedings they must ever cleave to the rule of the Word of God or warrantable authority and evidence of reason deduced from thence as then the Apostles and Presbyters did yea the very name of the Presbyters in Jerusalem signifieth the Iudges Counsellors Magistrates and Rulers of that Church who had the Keyes committed unto them as well as the Apostles and by their place were more peculiarly overseers of that Church as they were tyed unto it then the Apostles as the Presbyters of Ephesus were in that Church and were assigned in their severall places to execute their office and to looke to their particular charges in the government so that whether the Apostles were present or absent the Presbyters had the government laid upon their shoulders and if the Apostles themselves had taught contrary to this Constitution or an Angel from Heaven Gal. 1. I am confident the Presbyters would not have obeyed them nor have relinquished their authority neither ought they but would still have kept that rule power and authority which God had put in their hands so that for my owne particular I looke upon the Apostles in all these severall actions and in all those acts of government joyned and met together with the Presbyters as I looke upon Counsellors and Iudges in the great Councell of both Kingdoms where all the Iudges have equall power and authority in decisive voting and doe verily beleeve that the Presbyters sitting at any time in councel with any one or more of the Apostles did act as authoritatively as the Apostles themselves and I am ever able to prove it and make it good against any man that the Presbyters might as well conclude It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us as well as the Apostles and may say we have written and concluded as well as the Apostles As any two or three of the Parliament whether of the Lords or Commons may as well say wee have made such an Ordinance as any twenty of them or the whole Councell and that without disparagement or impeaching the dignity of any when they joyned with them in that worke and assented to it and in this very notion I looke upon the Presbyters in Ierusalem joyned with the Apostles and consider them as in my contemplations I looke upon the Lords and Commons now sitting in the great Councell as the grand civill Presbytery of the Kingdome where all binding Ordinances are to bee
Independent Governments are such they are their own inventions and that government only of the Presbyters is Gods Ordinance as having both precept and Presidents for it in Gods Word upon which they depend and this is my opinion and not that which Master Knollys would grollishly put upon me and this shall suffice for answer to that peece of non-sense of his And now I come to the last branch of his answer and that which I undertooke to make Good and prove viz. that the people and congregation in any Church have not power to judge their Ministers which Master Knollys affirmeth they have and for instance produceth the Church of Corinth and that of Colosse understanding by Church the people who he saith had power over the members miserably mistaking himself and abusing the ignorant and simple soules by it as will by and by appeare to those that can discerne things that differ or are but a little acquainted in matters of government either Ecclesiasticall or civill For if men do once but rightly understand what a Church is according to the discription of a Church as it is laid down in the New-Testament and consider withall of the parts and members of that Church which by Saint Paul is compared to the body of a man they will easily perceive that the governors and rulers are compared unto the head and all the noble parts of the body as to the eyes eares hands c. which are to guide and governe all the other members in the body and that all the other members under them are to be ordered and ruled by the head and other more noble parts and are to follow their direction so that it is in the Church of God as it is in the body of man some are to rule and others to be ruled in it and whose place it is ever to obey For none of the members of the body leave their stations unlesse they by violence be cut off as all rationall creatures do very well know For the head is ever the head the eye is ever the eye the eare is ever the eare and the hand is ever the hand c. For Saint Paul saith 1 Cor. 12. vers 27. Now yee are the body of Christ and members in particular And God hath set some in the Church first Apostles secondly Prophets thirdly Teachers after that miracles then gifts of healing helps in Government diversities of tongues are all Apostles are all Prophets are all Teachers c intimating that the Apostles and Prophets and Teachers and helps in Government in the Church every of them keepes their stations to wit they that are once Apostles Teachers or Governors doe continue in the Church in their severall places ever so to be and never lose their places but alwayes to the day of their death remaine and continue still to be Apostles Prophets Teachers and Rulers according to that in the fourth of the Ephesians vers 11. Where Saint Paul saith He gave some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the perfecting of the Saints and for the worke of the Ministry and the edifying of the body of Christ till we come all into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the sonne of God unto a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of Christ We finde not in all the holy Scripture that any of those true Ministers were at any time degraded or lost any thing either of their Titles or of their authority but as God had put the rule and Government of the Church into their hands and had given them the power of the Keyes and made them Stewards in the Church which is his body so they were ever to be the head eyes eares and hands for the governing and well ordering of the Church We finde likewise that in every severall Church of the New-Testament there was a Presbytery ordayned as Acts the 14. c. and that the Presbyters had the Government of those severall Churches put into their hands that the people and members of those Churches were commanded to obey their Presbyters as their guides whom God had set over them Heb. 13. as Master Knollys and all the learnedst of the Independents do acknowledge We finde likewise by the practise of the Church of Jerusalem the President of all other Churches that the people there for the redressing of any abuse amongst themselves assumed not the power into their own hands but applied themselves and made their addresses and appeales to the Presbytery and that they ordered every thing according as they thought good and that the people willingly submitted themselves to the order We finde further that for all acts of government as questioning any offendoâ—s for the censuring and punishing of them for ordination of Officers and excommunication it was done either by the sole power and authority of the Apostles or by the Presbyteries of the Church and those that were in office and not by the multitude as is manifest by that in the 2. of the Cor. chap. 2. ver 6. a place so much abused by the Independents sufficient saith the Apostle to such a man is the censure which was inflicted of many So that it was not inflicted by all the people but by such only in whose hands the power lay which was the Presbytery and therfore the Apostle saith by many or of many And truly if we would but duly reade the Epistles of Saint Paul to Timothy and Titus which were writ to them and in them to all the Ministers of the New-testament in all ages to come and observe the rules set downe in them which are to continue to the ende of the World we shall finde that for all Acts of government and for the well ordering of the Church it is only committed into the hands of the Ministers and presbyters of the severall Churches through all Nations and that to them only belonged the managing of the Goverment as the rulers and Stewards of the same and that all power and authority of Government peculiarly belonged unto them and that the people had nothing to do with it but to obey Again if we look but into the seven Churches of Asia Revel 2. 2. We shall finde that all the Epistles Christ writes unto them are directed to the Angels and Ministers of those severall Churches as upon whom the Government of those Churches lay and who had both the praise of well doing and blame of any evill either committed or tolerated by them for seeing they were appointed by Christ himselfe to be the Stewards and Guides of those Churches and to be the Governours of the same all the blame of the malversation of any of the members in them is imputed unto them as if they themselves had been the cause of it as not using their Authority for the redressing of those abuses So that it is apparently evident through the whole New Testament That the Ministers and Presbyters
out of the third of Matthew where Iohn saith I baptize you with water but there comes one after me who shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire this is nothing to his purpose nor nothing against my opinion For as I said before it was never my beliefe that the baptisme of Christ and Iohns baptisme was all one seeing Saint Iohn the Baptist hath taught the contrary as in the words alledged it is sufficiently declared But I demand of I. S. whether the Apostles all whose names were written in heaven were not as good Christians and Beleevers in Jesus Christ by Iohns baptisme before they had received the gifts of the Holy Ghost and were baptized with fire which we read of Act. the 2. as they were after the cloven tongues appeared unto them ver 3. If either he or any of his fraternity shall deny it then they must deny the sixteenth chapter of Matthew and the sixt of Saint Iohn where we finde that honourable confession of all the Apostles where they testifie their faith in Christ into whom they had been baptized before that yea they must deny the whole Scriptures of the New Testament which affirme the contrary And if the baptizing of any with the Holy Ghost and with fire be that thing onely that makes men Christians and Beleevers then none that were not so baptized were good christians for the gifts of the Holy Ghost as the diversity of tongues and working of miracles were not promiscuous and given to all as Saint Paul doth sufficiently declare 1 Cor. 12. 30. Have all the gifts of healing Do all speak with tongues So that all the people were not baptized with the Holy Ghost and therefore by I. S. his learning were no christians Neither was that the worke of the Apostles but it was Christs work onely who first breathed the spirit upon the Apostles and after his ascenâ—ion first poured down those gifts upon them Acts the 2. and after that at many other times through the prayer of the Apostles and putting on of their hands upon the Beleevers Christ for the confirmation of their Ministry and to manifest to all those that were converted by them that they were sent by him shed down those miraculous graces upon many but gave them not to all and it is also declared that they first believed and then they were baptized with the Holy Ghost and wee have but one President that I remember in the holy Scripture that any received the gifts of the Holy Ghost before they were baptized with water and that is those of Cornelius his house but all the rest were baptized with water before And therefore those gifts made them not Christians but declared them to be beleevers and were the effects of their faith which notwithstanding were not conferred by the Apostles but were immediately given by the spirit of Christ So that those visible gifts were not essentiall for the making of any Christians and Beleevers for they were alwayes Beleevers before they received them and if those gifts had been essentiall and absolutely necessary for the making of any Christians then all that had received them should have been saved which they were not besides then many hundred thousands of the primitive Christians should not have been true Beleevers and Christians indeed for all men generally received them not as I proved before and all the Christians for ought I know since the Primitive times and all that now live should be no good Christians for they were not and now are not baptized with the holy Ghost with fire So that al men may see with how little reason this I. S. speaketh in these his argumentaâ—ions and how vain and impious he is in all his cavills this shall suffice to have spoke concerning his second answer And now I come to his third which is as good as the two former His words are these 3. Therefore now saith I. S. by Iohns baptisme they were not all made Christians no more then the body of the Iewes before John were turned Christians by being baptized in the red Sea c. For they were baptized into Christ by their baptisme 1 Cor. 10. 3. I deny not but this baptisme of John was to prepare men for Christ and did beare a more immediate relation to such a worke then any Ordinance before but it did not make them absolute Christians It did not absolve and perfect the new Church I mean not so far as that Ordinance of baptisme was to do afterwards Thus I. S. blasphemeth rather then disputeth For that he saith is impious in the highest degree for it is an apparent giving of the spirit of truth the lye and a confuting of Christ himselfe and Saint Paul and an opposing of the generality of all the Independents as every understanding man will easily gather for the Scripture everywhere and all the orthodox Divines yea and all the Independents that ever I talked with or read of before I. S. and my Brother Burton acknowledge that those that were baptized by the Baptist and Christs Disciples before Christs death were Christians and Beleevers for otherwise they could not have been baptized Notwithstanding I. S. out of his learning denyeth not onely that they were Christians but affirmeth also that those that were baptized by Moses in the red Sea were no Christians whether therefore this be not to beat up the quarters of Iohn the Baptist Christ himselfe and the quarters of Moses the servant of the Lord and of all the Independents and to pull down the very pillars of the holy Scriptures and be not a horrid blasphemy in I. S. I leave to the judgement of the learned Our saviour saith Luk. the 7. v. 29. 30. And all the people that heard him the Publicans justified God being baptized with the baptisme of John but the Pharisees and Lawyers rejected the Councel of God against themselves being not baptized of him Here we have Christs testimony who asserteth that the Lawyers and Pharisees only excepted all that heard Iohn of which innumerable multitudes of them came from Jerusalem for all Ierusalem went out to him did justifie God and did not reject his Councell that is to say they were Believers for the councel of God in the ministry of Saint Iohn to all the people was that they should repent and believe in the Messiah and in token of their faith that they should be baptized now this sweet councell for the obtaining of free grace and favour offered unto them by God in the ministry of Iohn did the Pharisees and Lawyers reject to their own perdition for they would not bring forth fruits meet for repentance that is they would neither believe in the Messiah nor repent nor be baptized and therefore as a company of Infidels and unbeleevers they despised the councell of God and his grace and favour but all the other that heard Iohn saith Christ justified God and did not reject his councell that is they acknowledged that
God was just faithfull mercifull and gracious and therefore beleeved his promises and repented and were baptized and were all as good Christians and Beleevers as any were if any credit may be given to Christs words Whether therefore we ought rather to beleeve the words of Christ and his testimony or I. S. his language I refer it to the judgement of the advised reader Christ declareth they were Beleevers and Christians for they justified God and rejected not his councel but imbraced his grace and favour and free mercy I. S. saith the contrary It is true that the name of Christian was not given to beleevers till they were called so at Antioch yet to beleeve in Christ and to be baptized into Christ made them as well Christians before his suffering as after for otherwise Abel Enoch Noah Moses Abraham David and all those Martyrs spoke of Hebrewes the eleventh and all those baptized by the Apostles before Christs death should not have bin Christians which were wickednesse to think when the Scripture affirmeth that they not only lived by faith but did all those wonders by vertue of their faith in Christ and that they all injoyed the promises and therefore it must necessarily follow they were Christians as all beleeving in Christ and living and dying in that faith So that howsoever they had not the name of christians and were not so called which makes nothing against the reality of the thing for we contend not about words yet they were all true christians they being all built upon that Corner stone and upon the foundation Jesus Christ and differing nothing for the essence and substance or object of their faith from any that did succeed them in all ages to come And therefore I. S. affirming that by the baptisme of Iohn the beleevers then were not made Christians and that the Israelits Baptised by Moses in the cloude were no Christians overthrowes the holy Scriptures and gives Christ the lye and confutes Paul himself who in the 10. of the 1 of the Cor. ver 1. 2. 3. affirmes that our fathers were under the cloude and all passed through the Sea and were all baptised by Moses in the cloude and in the Sea and all eate the same spirituall meate and did all drink the same spirituall drinke for they all drank of the same spiritual Rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ by the which testimony of the Apostle they were as good Christians as the Corinthians for he comparing them together sheweth that they were equall to them in priviledges and were as good Christians as they according to that of Peter Acts the 15. vers 9. and put no difference between us and them purifying their hearts by faith as he had proved that the Israelits were equall in Priviledges with the Corinthians and all other Christians so he declareth likewise if the Corinthians and all other Christians did offend against God as the Israelites did they should likewise be equall to them in punishments For God was no respector of persons but as inevery nation he that feareth God worketh righteousnesse is accepted of him Acts 10. ver 35 so whatsoever Christians of what Nation so ever whether Iewer or Gentiles shall offend as the Israelites did they shall be equally punished So that by the witnesse and testimony of Paul in this tenth chapter of the 1 of the Cor. and the 11. of the Hebrewes and from the above cited Scriptures all our fathers under the cloude and all the Patriarkes and all those Martyrs and all those that were baptised by the Baptist and Christ Disciples were all as good Christians as any Baptized after Christs death or now by those of the Congregationall way or any Christians in the world and all that I here say is most true if any beliefe may be given to the holy Word of God And therefore I. S. affirming the contrary blasphemeth And now I come to his fourth Argument Which is this The learned and judicious know saith he that Iohn was but the Messenger before Christ Mal. 3. ver 1. And his baptisme was but as the streaming of light in the Heavens before the day and he did only bring and restore all things to their legall perfection by water the element of the law but Christ Iesus he comes and Baptizes with fire consummats all things with this transforming powerfull element even his spirit Thus I. S. speaketh To examine all the errors in these words would take up much time and require a large discourse but I study brevity As for the first part of this his answer where he saith the learned and Iudicious know that Iohn was but the Messenger before Christ c. it is a peece of vanity in him to produce the testimony of men to prove that Iohn was a Messenger of Christ when the holy Scripture in many places assertsit and when Christ himself hath declared that Iohn the Baptist was that Elias that was foretold should prepare the way before the Lord and make his pathes straight but this I may truly say of I. S. that he is a meere stranger in all good learning and as ignorant in all Divinity and in the holy Word of God as those judicious he speakes of were singularly excellent and mighty in the Scriptures and all sound theologie whose works and godly solid writings if ever he had read with understanding he could never have bin so prodigiously blasphemous as he is in all his discourse and chiefly in these his answers for there is not any one of them in which there is not great impiety to be discovered as in this to accuse Iohns Baptisme and Ministry of imperfection and to say they were but as the streamingsoflight in the Heavens before the day when notwithstanding Christ himself hath often given so many honourable testimonies of Iohn and his Ministry saying in the 5. of Iohn 32. that he bare witnesse of him and that his witnesse was true and in the 35. ver in expresse words affirming that he was a burning and shining light and that the Iews for a season did rejoyce in his light And yet I. S. boldly and peremptorily affirmeth that the Baptisme of Iohn was but as the streamings of light and that they were not consummate Christians that were baptised by him Who shall we beleeve I. S. or Iesus Christ Christ saith Iohn was a burning and shining light I. S. sayeth he was but as the streaming of light if this be not to give Christ the lye I know not what it is Christ in the seventh chapter of Luke and the 28. verse sayth That Iohn the Baptist was the greatest Prophet that was ever borne of women Then he was inferior in his Ministry to none of them no not to Moses himself of whom the author to the Hebrewes chap. 3. vers 5. saith with a verily that he was faithfull in all the house of God as a servant for a testimony of those things that were to be spoken
only true worshippers who saith that Salvation was of the Iews and that the Samaritans worshipped they knew not what Now to the Church of the Iewes those true worshippers those that were converted by Iohn the Baptist and Christs Disciples and baptized into Christ were added and therfore they were worthy to have been taken notice of by my brother Burton as formed into a Church or Churches if believing in Christ repenting and being baptized in his name and by his authority be sufficient to make men members of a Church for as the Catholicke visible Church consists of many Nationall Provinciall and Presbyterian Churches so did the Nationall church of the Iews of many citie Countries Churches which were in their Dialect called Synagogues which is the same with our Churches both in cities and countries as all the learned well know for in all those Synagogues they partaked daily in the morall worship and had the Preaching of the law and the Keyes of Heaven Now then when those multitudes that I enumerated in my arguments baptized by Iohn and the blessed Apostles and the seventy Disciples were all gathered into Christs fold and made his sheepe and true believers and that by the Preaching of the Gospell and hearing of the voyce of their Pastors and had amongst them all those sealing and discriminating Ordinances that were sufficient not only to forme them into a church or churches but to difference them from Pagans and Infidels as who were Israelites to whom pertained the adoption and the glory the Covenants and the giving of the Law and the Service of God and the promises as Saint Paul speaketh Rom. 9. vers 4. all which I conceive were sufficent and avaylable to make any then living members of Christs Church I say when they had circumcision and the Passoever baptisme and the Law and the Gospell and that worship of God that he had established amongst them and were his peculiar people of whom Christ had given this testimony that they were his true worshippers and when they were also gathered in according to Gods own appointment by the sound of the Gospell and by the preaching of Faith and Repentance and by the Ministry of the Word as all the Prophets had formerly gathered Churches then those that were Baptized by Iohn who was a Prophet sent of God Luke the 3. and sent to baptize Iohn the 1. 33. and those that were baptized by the Disciples who were sent from Christ as he was from his Father who said Go teach all nations baptising them c. all they I say ought by my brother Burton and all the Independents to be taken notice of as formed into a Church or Churches what so ever he and I. S. say to the contrary who in this agree that those that were baptized by John and by Christs Disciples were no Christians much lesse cast into a Church mould according to the New-Testament forme and lest of all that they were members of one Christian Church at Ierusalem These are J. S. his formall words pag. 9. So that whiles these men vvill dispute against the truth they blaspheme and give the Spirit of God the lye for Christ hath said that they that heare his Disciples heare him and that they that heare his voyce are his sheepe novv vvhen all those that vvere converted by their Ministry and vvere in token of their faith and obedience baptized and had given up their names unto Christ they were all incorporated into his fold which is his church his Mysticall body and were moulded into a church or churches and so they are set down to us in the holy Scriptures as believers and true members of Christs church and therefore formed into a church or churches for there is but one Shepherd and one sheep-fold and Christ had then no other church on earth that we reade of but that of the Iewes and which is yet more it was a reformed church for Christ had cast out all the Buyers and Sellers John 2. out of the Temple and cals it his Fathers house and the house of prayer so that it was now a pure church and clensed from all pollutions and in the which all Christs Ordinances were in their purity here was the Preaching of the Gospell the Teaching of the Law and all the sealing Ordinances both old and new here was Circumcision the Passeover Sacrifices and Ceremonies here was Baptisme and the Lords Supper or breaking of bread here was the true Invocation or calling on the name of God and that in the house of Prayer where all Supplications were heard and that before Christs death Here we have all the materialls for the making or forming of a church or churches or casting of Christians into a church mould according to the new-testament forme to speak a little in the Independents dialect for here we have visible Saints in multitudes devoute men and true worshippers from out of all the Nations under heaven Acts 2 here we have Christ and his twelve Apostles and his seventy Disciples Elders and Teachers in abundance besides many Women that followed him and ministred unto him here was no want of Ministers and Officers and Members of all sorts besides innumerable multitudes of believers and cryers Hosanna and all this before Christs death as well as after and all these Christian believers and such as did partake of all sealing and saving Ordinances sufficient to cast them into a church mould and to forme them into a church or churches as well as after Christs ascension and therefore my indefinite enumeration of those that were baptized by Iohn and Christs Disciples ought by my brother Burton and I. S. and all the Independents to have been taken notice of as formed into a church or churches without Christ and his blessed Apostles who partaked in all Ordinances be not in their esteeme reputed Christians and formed into a church or cast into a church mould which were blasphemy in any to thinke and therefore is much more the height of wickednesse in my brother Burton and I. S. to affirme and Print for I. S. his expressions I produced them often before I will now set downe my brother Burtons formall words which I cannot but reiterate For your indefinite enumeration saith he of those mulititudes baptized by Iohn and by Christs Disciples we take no notice of them unlesse formed into a church or churches but following the expresse Scripture the first formed church we finde is in Acts 2. These are his words and that in the name of all the Independents saying we take no notice of them So that by this all men may gather that in the Independents language and in their Divinity Iohn Baptist and all Christs Disciples with Christ himself and all Christian believers in Christs time and all that by baptisme were received into Christs fold and church and such as had given up their names to Christ were not worthy to be taken notice of by the Independent brethren who esteeme of
and pleasure of God in them and accordingly determined that difference and question by the written Word and from thence commanded that the Decrees of that Councell should be observed in all Churches After the very same manner in this their so doing the church of Ierusalem is a paterne to all other churches upon the like occasions it any difference of opinion rise amongst the churches or if any new heresies spring up tending to the subversion of the soules of the people how holy and godly so ever they seeme to be that broach them and what pretence so ever they make that they have them from divine Authority I say upon the like occasions in Imitation of the Apostles and Elders in the church at Ierusalem Kings and Princes and Christian Magistrates and those that are in Authority may call a councell or Synod of Divines together and as the Apostles and Elders there debated things by dispute and reason and by searching the holy Scripture found out the truth and determined the question and sent their Decrees which were binding to all other churches so I affirme also in this their so doing that church is a paterne of imitation to all churches in all Nations and Countries and Christian churches in them that Ministers out of severall Presbyteries in a representative body may meet together by the appointment of their Magistrates and dispute those questions by reasoning and discourse and finding by searching of the Word of God what his good will and pleasure is may determine the question accordingly and give out their decrees grouned upon the written Word with authority to be observed by all those churches under their severall Jurisdictions and as the people then did patiently wait till the determining of that difference without making of any rents schismes or separations one from another and did then yeild obedience to those decrees without any reluctation but observed them all willingly after the debate so ought all people in imitation of them and following their example with patience to wait without making any rents and divisions till things are fully discussed and determined in any such Synode or councell and then willingly and cheerfully submit themselves and yeild obedience to them and in their so doing they have the church at Ierusalem for a paterne and the Apostles and Elders of that church and the other churches for an example of imitation so long as they injoyne nothing contrary to the Word of God For this way of governing the church by Synods and Councells upon differing and dissenting opinions betweene church and church and upon occasion of any new Heresies sprung up in Christian Countries or any old ones revived as it hath its paterne from the church at Ierusalem and that of Antioch which is left for our imitation that all churches upon the like occasion should follow it So this way of ruling is grounded upon most excellent reason as most agreeable both to the Law of God and nature and the practise of all Nations and Kingdomes of which we have many presidents in the holy Scriptures besides this councell at Ierusalem and some others For as all Nations and Kingdoms have been ever governed by generall councells and have ever had their severall appeales from inferior Courts and councells to Superior upon either publicke grievances or upon any differences betweene Province and Province and County and County or betweene Corporation and Corporation or City and City or upon any Pressures or oppressions or impeachments or incroachments of each on the others liberties or through injustice or injuries done to each of them from some that are in power and authority So the church of Iesus Christ which is his Kingdome is inferior to no other Kingdome upon earth but in that also the severall Corporations that are under it which are so many Presbyterian churches have in like manner the liberty of their appeales upon any of the aforesaid or above named occasions And although they all injoy equall priviledges amongst themselves as the severall Provinces Counties Corporations and Cities in any kingdome do so as they cannot severally and by themselves considered give a Law each to other yet as in a generall councell in Kingdomes and Common-wealths when the Knights and Barons and Burgesses of each of them are all met together in their representative bodies in a Parliament or Diet may being so Assembled together not only redresse any abuses and punish Delâ—nquents but also for the better government of those severall Doâ—inâ—ons for the future give Lawes to each Province County City and Corporation yea and unto the whole Country And enact penall Statutes both to them and to the whole Countries under them according to the fundamentall Lawes of the Kingdomes and Countries In the same manner it is in the visible Catholicke church which is Christs Kingdome although in it the severall Presbyteries and churches considered by themselves and as having equall Authority amongst themselves cannot give Lawes to each other severally and by themselves considered as the Church of Corinth and that of Antioch and Ephesus and the other could not prescribe to each other a rule or Law to walke by with Authority but only in an examplary way by well doing yet all these severall churches ioyning together in a generall councell as they did at Jerusalem Acts the 15. and having from each of them deligated and sent their Presbyters and Ministers as so many Burgesses of their severall cities and Corporations and they being all met together upon any grievances and having by debating of the matters and differences in question by dispute and by disquisition found What is the good will of God and what is his pleasure in his good Word and in the holy Scriptures which are the Fundamentall Lawes of his Kingdom may in any Christian councell so called and ordering their businesse as the councell and Synod of Ierusalem did give out their Decrees and those binding ones to all those severall churches that are under their jurisdictions and all these severall churches ought to yeild obedience to them And in this their so doing they have the church of Ierusalem and the other churches a president and a paterne For I say in all these respects the church at Ierusalem is a paterne to all other churches And as in the church at Ierusalem Corinth Philippi Samaria Ephesus c. the Apostles Evangelists and the Presbyters in every one of those churches had the charge of each of those churches committed to them in common as is manifest from all the places above quoted and through the holy Scripture and as they fed them all and governed them all in common so in that also both the church at Ierusalem and all the other churches according to my brother Burtons doctrine who saith they must all come in for the making up of a compleat platforme I say as all the Presbyters and Ministers fed those severall churches in common so they are a paterne to all churches in all
possessions and goods and parted them to all men as every man had need and that they continued daily with one accord in the Temple and that they brake bread from house to house and did eate their meat with Gladnesse and singlenesse of heart Thus the Holy Ghost describeth those three thousand converts unto us as not onely skilfull in the theory of church-fellowship but also exceedingly well verst in the practicall part of it whether therefore in this particular also in that J. S. saith it is suspicious that the three thousand converted at once were not so soone instructed in Church fellowship as converted when the Scripture reporteth the contrary it be not to give the Spirit of God the lye I leave it to the judgement of all the godly and impartiall Râ—aders who I am confident will give their verdict against I. S. For certainly there is no act of church fellowship that was omitted by them and although I love not such as will groundlessly be suspicious as I. S. is here and those of his Fraternity yet I am confident the Independnnts will never be induced to imitate the example of those three thousand and I have very good reason to make mee continue in this beliefe for what I already know in their daily practises and therefore they are rather to be suspected that they are not well instructed in church fellowship they make notwithstanding so great a noys about therefore whether this be not a great temerity in these men thus upon all occasions not onely to censure their christian brethren that live harmelessely by them but to suspect all those that were converted by the Baptist and the Apostles themselves before Christs death yea and to suspect even those three thousand also that were converted by Peter after Christs ascension and to adjudge both Pastors and people to bee all ignorant what church government and church fellowship was I leave it likewise to the judgement of the prudent advised Reader And yet this is the daily practise of al the Ill dependents thus to speake of them all as if they had not learned their lesson as well as the congregationall Predicants and their disciples and knew not how to cast them into a church mold after the New Testament forme and to instruct them concerning church fellowship when not withstanding it is recorded of those Ministers that they revealed the whole counsell of God and whatsoever was needfull to be knowne or practised by all christians to the end of the world Acts the 20. and therefore could bee ignorant of nothing that tended to edification and the building up of beleevers in their most holy faith But yet notwithstanding I. S. and his brethren are still full of suspicions and yet never satisfied in any thing that can be produced out of the holy Scripture to confute their erroneous novelties for although I had sufficiently confirmed my first proposition and proved by both Scripture and reasons that all those that were baptized by John and Christs Disciples were good Christians and true Believers and that there were many Congregations of Beleevers in the Church at Jerusalem yet I. S. page 11. sayes He is not satisfied by any thing that hath been alledged by me that the Church of Ierusalem consisted of many Congregations and Assemblies and that upon the scruples before instanced And Mr Knollys in his 11. page affirmeth the same So that it is certain these men are resolved never to be satisfied though things be never so evidently proved unto them And it is no wonder that there is at this day such a brood of creatures in the world for there has ever been a generation of such men in all ages that will never be satisfied Christ the great Doctor of his Church with all his blessed Apostles and faithfull Ministers could never satisfie the Jewes but they ever resisted his spirit Acts 7. Neither can the holy Scriptures now satisfie all gainsayers but they will still be doubting amongst the which Sir I. S. and Saint Hanserdo with many of their fraternity may well be numbred But for all such Christians as whom the god of this world hath not blinded their eyes that they should not see the glorious light of the Gospel of truth I am confident they will be satisfied that I have sufficiently proved that there were many Congregations and several Assemblies of beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem from that satisfaction they will learn to abhor the errors of all the sectaries and straglers of our times and to decline shun their company and fellowship And for all such as they are that will receive the good seed of the word into good and honest hearts I desire ever to satisfie them and not those that are resolved to be ever scepticall and ever learning yet never attaining or coming to knowledge or at least withhold the truth from others in unrighteousnesse And for all such I shall not much study to give them satisfaction as being a company of unreasonable men from whom we ought daily to pray to be delivered for all such the Lord hath given over to strong delusions that they should beleeve a lye because they received not the love of the truth that they may be saved 2 Thess 2. Notwithstanding I say I have very little hope ever to satisfie any such and therefore may be thought to go about an impossible worke if I should indeavour it yet that all men may sâ—e my fairer dealing with I. S. because he saith that he hath not been satisfied with any thing alledged by me that the Church of Jerusalem consisted of many Congregations and Assemblies I will therefore adde a few reasons more or at least call some of the former briefly to his minde which I am most assured if there were no other in the whole book would perswade any rationall man that there were many Assemblies and Congregations of beleevers in the Church of Jerusalem which if they cannot yet satisfie him I am confident they will satisfie and content others And to the reasons I shall produce I will also adde some testimonies of those of his own party for his farther satisfaction or conviction at least All such as have read I. S. his learned works know that he hath not only cut of all those that were baptized by Iohn and Christs Disciples before Christs passion and ascension from the Church of Ierusalem but razed them out of the Kalender and Roule of the Saints absolutely denying them so much as the very name of Christians all this I say those that have read his scruples very well know They know likewise that he granteth there were three thousand converted by the first Miracle and Sermon of Saint Peter though he uncharitably saith That it is suspicious that they were not so soon instructed in Church fellowship as converted So that here by his own confession we have a very ample Congregation consisting of three thousand and six score persons And in the same
the most uncivilized people living they usually railing of me to my face and such of them as I know not nor never to my remembrance saw before their assaulting of me and they that carry themselves fairest towards me either puffe in my face as they passe by me thinking to provoke me or else make odd faces at me or stare on me as I passe by them like a hare in a forme and they have often professed unto many that they had as leive meet the devill as me and said that I was a devill and that I looked like the devill and like Cain and a thousand more such expressions they have upon all occasions in their mouthes concerning me besides whatsoever they have published in their Pamphlets and besides all their filthy and infamous language they dayly use to the defaming of me and mine But this is not my condition alone but so they deal with all those faithfull and godly Presbyterian Ministers all which confirms me in my opinion calling them ugly fellows and bland asses and Presbytyrants and loading them with all manner of reproaches so that they have made them all through the Kingdome so hatefull and infamous as they cannot dwell safely in their houses where there is any increase of them and all that I now write can sufficiently be proved by many witnesses which passages of theirs towards all corroborates me in my perswasion So that by these barbarous practices of all the Sectaries and by these their uncouth sounds they have so scared and terrified the people that now the name of a Presbyterian is formidable to many and it is enough to hinder any from preferment that they can but blast with the name of a Presbyterian and this also hath been generally observed that there is scarse a man found to have been familiar at any time with any of the Sectaries that if he once come to declare himself to stand for the Presbytery that ever they could endure after whatsoever love they seemed to shew towards him before that time yea it is farther observed that scarse ever any man of what rank or fashion soever he were that familiarly conversed amongst them that they have not afterwards betrayed or blasted their in honor and reputation yea I could tell many a sad story to the deterring of any Presbyterian for ever being familiar with any of that brood and I shall ever be able to prove that when some of them that were poor unlearned and obscure men yet for their seeming holiness have by great Parsonages been entertained in their families and whom they made their principall companions these most ungratefull and treacherous fellows have made use of this their noble courtesie and humanity but to find how they stood affected to Independency and when they perceived that they were not for their purpose though otherwise they were very moderate men yet they raised many infamous reports of them yea they so blasted them in their honours as they could never after recover their reputation So that it is a wonder to me that any cordiall reall and solid Presbyterian will familiarly converse with them when they have dayly so many sad presidents of their treachery before their eyes And for my part I wonder how any truly godly people dare come in their company much lesse hear them preach especially when they pray they may not be led into temptation and when they have a speciall command to take heed of all seducers and are so frequently in holy Scripture forewarned to decline all society with them which they according to Gods command ever ought to avoyd For Saint Paul speaking of false teachers in the fifth of the Galatians wishes that they were cut off and in the first chapter of the same Epistle v. 8. 9. he faith there that if an Angel from heaven should preach unto them otherwise then he had taught them that they should account him accursed therefore surely he would not have any of Christs Disciples and Scholers familiar with false teachers and such as teach the people otherwise then Paul had taught them which all the Sectaries do and much more ought all those that know the doctrines and practices of the Sectaries of our times how dangerous a generation of men they are in all respects and how many have bin utterly ruined undone in their souls and in their estates and reputations by their familiarity with them to shun them Surely it is a great provoking of God when they know his blessed Will who hath said Matth. 15. 7. Beware of false Prophets which come to you in sheeps clothing but inwardly are ravening wolves that yet they will not take heed of them but run after their preachments for this is indeed to thrust themselves into temptation and put themselves upon needlesse danger to the ruining of their own souls and the souls of those that are commitâ—ed to their charg in their families whom they are by Gods command to bring up in the nurture and fear of the Lord and to instruct in the way of truth and righteousnesse which the Sectaries do not walk in as I have sufficiently proved both in my Epistle to the Reader and through my whole Book and therfore ought to be shunned and declined whatsoever seeming holinesse and sanctimony they pretend to the World Without doubt the deceivers in Pauls times were as seemingly holy as any of our Itinerary and Independent Praedicants for he saith of them that like the devill they transformed themselves into angels of light and appeared like the Ministers of righteousnesse and the Pharisees in Christs time seemed very glorious outwardly as our Saviour speaketh of them and yet he commanded all his followers to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the leaven of Herod he would have none of his Disciples famâ—liar with them but injoyns them all to take heed of their doctrines And Saint Paul 2 Tim. 3. 1 2 3 4. saith that the last times wil be perillous and dangerous times in regard of the false teachers that should then arise and after he had made a description of them that they might know them which in every thing agrees with the Sectaries of our times he saith of those seducers that they shal be lovers of themselvs covetous boasters proud blasphemers disobedient to Parents unthankful unholy without naturall affection covenant breakers false accusers that is in the Originall devils incontinent fierce despisers of those that are good treacherous heady high minded lovers of pleasures more then lovers of God having a form of godlinesse but denying the power thereof Now after he hath deciphered them he gives all men a speciall command to avoyd their society saying from such turn away he injoynes all men not so much as to hear them And compares them to Jannes and Jambres those sorcerers who withstood Moses and says of those seducers that they also like them would resist the truth they being men of corrupt minds and reprobate concerning the faith
Truly if ever the Scripture were fulfilled in any age of the world it is now fulfilled in these our times there being not any part in this whole description of those dangerous seducers that doth not in every branch of it agree with the Seducers and Sectaries of ours the most dangerous times in that regard that ever were in the world And therefore it concerns all men that desire the peace of Zion and the welfare of their own souls to take heed of them all least they be found fighters against God for we have precept upon precept to this very end given by all his holy Prophets Christ and his blessed Apostles to shun them and Saint John in his second Epistle v. 10 11. saith there speaking to all Christians If there come any unto you that bring not the doctrine of Christ entertain him not into your house neither bid him God speed for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds Now we know the Sectaries of our times teach such doctrines as were never taught by Christ nor any of his blessed Apostles how then dare any that have the name of Christians be familiar with such and entertain them in their houses especially when Saint Paul saith 2 Tim. chapter 2. verse 19. Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity or evill And what greater iniquity and evil can there be then to live in the open violation of Gods Commands for in the very same chapter hee exhorted them ver 16. 17. to shun prophane and vaine bablings which is the practice of the Sectaries saying they would increase to more ungodlinesse and that their words will eate as doth a canker of whom is Hymeneus and Philetus who concerning the truth have erred saying that the Resurrection is past already and overthrow the faith of some he nameth some of the Sectaries there Now here also we are commanded againe to avoid all evill whether it be the evill of Doctrine or manners or evill company and especially to avoid and shun all false Teachers whose doctrines eat as a Gangrene such as are the new Doctrines of our times which are inferior to none for evill impiety and wickednesse that were ever yet taught in the world as yee may see in Learned Master Edward's Gangrena and therefore it concernes all to shun the evill of all Sectaries company and fellowship and in the 6 chapter of his 1. Epistle to Tim. verse 3. as if hee could never have given caution enough hee saith there If any man teach otherwise then he and Christ had instructed Timothy to teach and consent not to wholesome words even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and to the doctrine which is according to Godlinesse from such with draw thy selfe If Timothy which was a well grounded Christian an Evangelist by his place if he were againe and again by the Holy Apostle commanded to shun and decline the company and familiarity of all false Teachers and Seducers how much more ought all other Christians that are so much inferiour to Timothy in all respects to take heed of all Sectaries especially when we by our daily experience find how many they have misled and seduced Truly it hath been the great Rebellion of both Ministers and people in these our times contrary to the command of God to follow them and to lend them not only their eares but their Pulpits and Churches to preach in and doubtlesse whatsoever they may thinke they have both of them much to answer for before God as being the principall causes of the ruine and misleading of so many soules and if the State doe not speedily take order for the suppressing of all those wicked Deceivers the times will grow more dangerous and perilous not only in regard of the precious soules of many but in respect also of the peace and quiet of the Land for all things will speedily run to confusion and the Sectaries will bring downe Gods judgements upon the Land by their damnable and desperate Doctrines and ruine upon the very Parliament and the States of the Kingdome and there will one Iack Straw or other or one Wat Tylâ—r or some worshipfull Knipper or other be raysed up to be a deliverer of their Soveraigne Lord the people out of the hands of all Prerogative and King-creatures and out of the hands of their owne creature the Parliament The Lord awaken the Parliament the Lords and Peeres of the Kingdome and all the Governours through the same to stand now all upon their Guards they having had so many Warning-Peeces both in the Army and in the Citie both in Pulpits and Pamphlets what the Independents and Sectaries intend to doe Were there no other Books but Iohn Lilburns who knows the mind of his brethren and the great concourse of people that follow him and countenance him in his wicked practices it were enough to awaken the whole Kingdom But when wee daily heare and reade what Peters Salt-marsh Dell c. those worthy Saints both preach and print and what gallant Fellowes they have now with the sword in their hands and what priviledges they clayme unto themselves it is a matter of wonder and astonishment to me that they are not all of them timely looked unto and it stranges me most of all that there should be any of those Sectaries permitted through the Kingdome to beare any office of charge committed unto them or to have any other weapon offensive or defensive in their hands then a bodkin or a thimble which were the only iron many of them wore before these times for it is well known that all the Sectaries in the Kingdome within these six years were as much afraid of the Artillery Guarden and of the Military Yard as they were afraid of a Cathedrall Church and the roaring of the Ordnance and Canons and the noyse of a volley of shot the sound of a Trumpet and the beating of a Drum were as formidable Musick in their eares as the noyse of a paire of Organs or Sackbuts or the singing of the Choristers in Pauls Westminster-Abbâ—y or in the Kings Chappell and yet now they can begin to talke of the sword in their hands It is not good that such children as these are should be suffered to have such dangerous weapons in their fingers It was not thought fit by our Fore-fathers who were commended for their wisdome that any Papists should sit in the Parliament and our ever to be honoured Worthies now sitting in that great Conncell did not thinke it for the Kingdoms safety that any Papist should bee of the Kings Councell and at the first sitting of the Parliament no Monopolists or Gatherers of Ship-money or Pattentees or any such creatures though they were lawfully chosen by the people were suffered to sit in Parliament but were thrust out as being suspected they would prove bad instruments to the State and therfore I say notwithstanding the peoples election they were immediatly dismissed the great
whiles with their scriblings they trouble the world in making rents and schismes in church and state But heare yet how hee cavilleth the church of Ierusalem saith hee cannot bee a paterne to all churches for then all Churches must have seven Deacons and must bee all subject to some one Church because things in question were there debated and determined and sent to other Churches to be observed and in regard also that that Church was infallibly guided by the Holy Ghost in which respect the resolution of that Church was with authority it pleased the Holy Ghost and us which no particular Church since can ever say In these respects saith hee it followes then that the Church of Ierusalem remaines not in all things a patterne for other Churches for a paterne must bee in all things imitable and perfect Thus my Brother Burton makes a noyse to little purpose contradicting all those of his owne party that I ever yet read or talked with who all acknowledge that the Church of Ierusalem was a paterne to all churches and from the example of that church as they pretend they forme and governe all their churches and labour to reduce all to that paterne and ground all their proceedings upon the Plat-forme of that church and doe all as they affirme in imitation of that holding Synods to bee one of Gods ordinances and ground it upon the meeting of the Apostles and Elders in the 15. of the Acts and yet my Brother Burton here maintaineth the contrary as his words sufficiently declare for which his grollery I beleeve all those of his Fraternity will give him little thankes and blame him for his so great haste in answering mee who in his wise Epistle to the Reader saith I hasted at last as fast as before I was slow if possible to recover our brother so that it seemes hee made more haste then good speed according to the Proverbe Canis festinans caecos parit catulos and will have cause at leisure to repent for hee hath by this his jugling and conjuring quite rased the foundation and overthrowne the whole Fabrick of the new Bable of Independency which his brethren had beene so busie and diligent to lay erect maintaine and uphold and that from the example of the Church of Ierusalem But it will not be amisse to examine his trifling reasons of this his gain-saying and denyall that the Church of Ierusalem cannot be a paterne to other churches for then saith he every Church must have seven Deacons and all Churches must be subject to one Church and to the Decrees of that Church which they cannot be there being none now infallibly guided Thus my Brother Burton out of the acumen of his wit disputes at randoun after the very same manner did the Prelates in their generation dispute against the godly people they termed Puritans when they alleaged the example of Christ and the blessed Apostles in receiving of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper as that they all received it either sitting or using a Table-gesture and therefore that all Christians and Christs Disciples were bound to imitate and to follow his and the Apostles examples rather then Antichrists as a paterne set downe to them of receiving the Holy Communion to the end of the world To which the Prelates and those of that faction replyed that if the Puritans would make Christ and his Apostles in receiving the Lords Supper a paterne for their imitation then they must always celebrate it in an evening and that after supper and in an upper roome and in a private house and not in publick and then they must never exceed twelve or thirteene communicants and they must be all men and no women and an hundred such other toyes they brought to prove that the example of our blessed Saviour and his holy Apostles was not to be a paterne of imitation for the receiving of the Lords Supper to all Christians in succeeding ages and after the same manner doth my brother Burton now trifle to no purpose For as the example of Christ and the blessed Apostles was a paterne in respect of substance and not in every circumstance which was never required so was the church of Ierusalem in respect of substance and not in every circumstance to be a paterne to all churches for their imitating to the end of the world As for instance The church at Ierusalem had liberty given them by the Apostles to nominate and make choyce of Deacons when there was a necessitie of such Officers to nominate and make choyce of as many as they thought sufficient for their occasions And in this it was a paterne to all churches in succeeding ages that they likewise if they had need of Deacons might make choyce of holy and godly men and of approved integrity and of as many as they had need of whether fewer or more and as often as their occasions required no church being limited for the number and as the Apostles onely in that church ordained the Deacons and not the people so the Ministers and Presbyters only in all churches should doe the same And as upon any difference amongst the brethren that are joyned together in church Fellowship as it hapned then betweene the Grecians and the Hebrewes Acts 6. about their widowes who they thought were neglected in the daily Administration they made their appeales to the Apostles for redresse so in this the church at Ierusalem is a patern to all other churches upon any occasions of such or the like difference to appeale unto their severall Presbyteries and as they willingly submitted themselves to their determination so when the Presbyters command or appoint any thing in the Lord and according to his word the people are to yeeld willing subjection obedience to their order and in their so doing to make the church of Ierusalem their paterne and as in the church of Ierusalem there were many congregations and churches and all these were combined together and subordinate to one Presbyterie in this also the church of Ierusalem is to be a paterne to all churches in succeeding ages that they may doe the like in imitation of that church which is for ever to be a paterne to them and as upon occasion then certaine men went downe from Iudaea to Antioch Acts 15. 1. and troubled the people there and in other churches with words subverting their soules saying that they must be circumcised and keepe the Law vers 24. pretending they came from the Apostles and had a command from them of their so doing so that upon this the churches sent unto the Apostles and the Elders at Ierusalem for the determination of this busines in debate waited patiently for their resolution without making any rents or schismes in the church and as the Apostles and Elders of that church and of other churches called a councell and Synode and there disputed and debated the matter with arguments and reasons searching the holy Scriptures What was the good will