Tit. S. Hierome considering well the place before named in the Acts saieth Quod magis mirum sit c. And that wee may the more maruaile we may once againe read this place of the Acts of the Apostles where wee finde that the Christian and Ecclesiastical discipline was euen then of wicked meÌ„ called Heresie Many others haue witnessed as much therefore since it is no new thing but the very custome of Satan euer I trust you see there is great cause not to be carried away with mens speaches whose eies be blinded by the god of this worlde but with true and sound proofes If they cannot shew that we haue fallen away from Christ nor from his Apostles nor from the prophets if we beleeue as surely we doe all that is written in them maintain nothing as necessarie to salvation but what may be plainely shewed to be taught vs by them how iniurious and shamfull yea fearefull a dealing it is neuerthelesse to call vs Heretiques good mother consider in your selfe Me thinkes in this place S. Austens speech somtimes to Petilian the Donatist is good who said thus contra Petil. 2. cap. 85. Vtrum nos schismatici sumus an vos nec ego nec tu sed Christus interrogetur vt indicet Ecclesiam suam Whether of vs be scismatiques or heretiques aske not of either of vs but let Christ be asked for vs both that he may shewe vs his owne Church that is let the scriptures bee searched and let them declare the trueth which they will doe M. Sonne for your first point that it is not safe to iudge of things by names because Gods truth hath bin called heresy as you haue shewed and I see it plainely I ioyne with you and take it for a good caveat hereafter to beware but for your second point that therefore you should not be counted heretiques because you say you holde nothing disagreeable to the scriprures I cannot approoue it because heretiques as I haue heard at al times haue boasted of scripture as you doe S. Good mother I am very glad you perceiue how truth hath bene slandered with the name of heresie Scripture and therefore how fit it is in matters of salvation not to be mooued by speches of men but euer to search seeke for due true proofe and for the second point I trust God shall make you see it also if it please you to goe along with me True it is which you say you haue heard that heretiques alleadge scripture and you knowe that the diuell himselfe who is as bad as any heretique 〈◊〉 4. alleadged scriptures but what then is not it therfore a safe way to cleaue to the scriptures and only vpon them to ground our faith yes surely which shall appeare euen by this practise of Satan being duly considered for such is the skill of that old subtill serpent that as he knoweth to fitte his temptations to the humour and disposition of them whome he tempteth so he vseth to set vpon men by those perswasions which he is most likely to seduce them by as to Eve in paradice he promised the knowledge of good and euill 〈◊〉 3. â—â—od 7. 〈◊〉 Chron. 18.11 to obstinate Pharaoh he presented lying wonders to wicked Ahab delighting in lies he came in the month and consent of many false prophets to the superstitious and hypocriticall Iewes he pretended the temple of the Lord â—er 7.4 â—ct 19.27 17. â—â— to the populous ancient heathen vniuersalitie and antiquity to our Sauiour the written word of God which he thought if any thing would preuaile with him So the diuell in alleadging onely scripture against our Sauiour turneth himselfe into an angell of light and would seeme to doe that which is most holy in it selfe most acceptable vnto god most comfortable to men most sure for their safegard and protection which doth not diâ—credit the triall of truth in points of faith by scripture only but rather countenance and confirme it because it argueth the disposition and setled affection of our blessed Sauiour towards these sacred writings that he made them the tower of his defence the rocke of his safegarde the foundation of his whole obedience accounted nothing a ground of faith and dutie but onely scripture and therefore that we likewise should cleaue fast to the written word of God turning neither to the right nor left hand but walking constantly in the obedience thereof Wherefore though this alleadging of scripture be a worke of darknesse both because he did misâ—alleadge it leaving out a principall part of the sentence and so corrupting it and also for that he did it as a lying spirit to deceiue Yet to alledge the scripture rightly with an vpright minde to a good ende shall euer be as the dutie of Gods people so the shield and buckler of their defence yea the crowne and glorie of the children of light whereby they shall resemble their head our blessed Saviour Christ Iesus who as you may see in the gospel gaue not ouer his holde because the deuill abused it but with scripture againe he answered him and so both iustified himselfe and confounded his aduersary which also hath beene the manner good mother of the church of God at all times As namely at the first most holy and vncorrupt Councell helde at Hierusalem by the Apostles themselues 〈◊〉 15. where the question debated was whether the beleeuing Gentiles could be saued onely by faith in Christ Iesus without circumcision and the obseruation of the lawe of Moses as Paul and Barnabas affirmed and preached against certaine who came from Iudea and taught the contrary For the deciding whereof in that most catholike and orthodoxall Councel S. Peter alleadged the testimony of God himselfe who sent him to the Gentiles Cornelius and his friendes to preach vnto them not the lawe of Moses but the word of the gospel that they might beleeue and blessed his ministerie with happy successe giuing vnto them the holy ghost and purifying their hearts by saith which he calleth Gods testimony God saith he bare witnesse vnto them giuing them the holy ghost c 〈◊〉 8. â— And S. Iames in his sentence alleadged the written word of God both to confirme that which S. Peter had deliuered and to ende the controuersie 〈◊〉 14. Symeon saith he hath declared howe god first visited the Gentiles tooke of them a people vnto his name and to this agree the wordes of the Prophets as it is written c. Likewise at the famous Counsell of Nice the worthy Emperour Constantine whome god raised vp to ende the persecutions of his Church and to giue it rest saide thus to the bishops assembled there Theod. lib. 1. cap. 7. Evangelicae Apostolicae literae c. the writings of the Evangelists and Apostles and the sayings of the olds Prophets doe clearely instruct vs what iudgement we ought to haue of the meaning and will of God Therefore laying
aside all contention let vs seeke out of those heauenly oracles the assoiling of our questions And of the Arrian herericks who in that counsel were ouerthrown another saith thus Explicantes sacras scripturas illâ—s euertimus Socr. l. 1. c. 6. by opening and expounding the holy scriptures we overthrowe them The like rule was followed at the counsell helde at Constantinople against the hereticke Macedonius that denied the divinitie of the holy ghost neuer mooue question hereof saith Athanasius ad Serapion but learne of the holy scriptures for the onely proofes that you shall there finde are sufficient And in another place the same father saith Scripturae sufficiunt adveritatis instructionem siue institutionem â—â—ra Genâ—es â—â—l Idola the scriptures are sufficient to instruct vs in the trueth Marke I pray you the word Sufficiunt In the other two Councels also of Ephesus and Chalcedon â—vagrius we read of the same course all things were concluded by the wordes of the Evangelists and Apostles The auncient father Origen saith Rom. lib. 10.16 Vnde quà m propè periculis illi sunt c. See and consider in what daunger they be that haue no care to read the holy scriptures for by the same scriptures onely the iudgement of this triall must be allowed ierom hom 1. And in another place Necesse est nobis scripturas sanctas in testimonium vocare sensus quippe nostri enarrationes sine iis testibus non habent fidem VVe must needes call to witnesse the holy scriptures for our iudgements and expositions without those witnesses carry no credit a notable saying if it please you to marke it And with him S. Austen fully agreeth when he saith 〈◊〉 Naâ— Grat. â— Solis Canonicis scipturis sine vlla recusatione consensum debeo Onely to the Canonicall scriptures do I owe my consent without gainsaying The same father againe when he disputed against Petilian the Donatist â—â—c Vnit. Ecâ—les c. 3. said Let not these vvordes be heard betweene vs I say or you say but let vs rather speake in this wise thus saith the Lord. Auferantur de medio chartae nostrae procedat in medium codex dei contra liâ— Pâ— l. 3 c. 6. Away with our bookes and let Gods booke come in place Siue enim de Christo siue de Ecclesia siue de quacunque aliâre quae pertinet adfidem vitamque nostram non dicamsi nos c. For whether it be of Christ or of his Church or of any thing els what soeuer pertaining either to our life or to our faith I will not say if I my selfe but if an angel from heauen shall teach vs otherwise then we haue receiued in the bookes of the law and in the gospel holde him accursed This is the proofe saith he againe quae nec falli nec fallere potest de peccat mâ—â— remist l. 1. c. 2â— which can neither deceiue nor be deceiued To the verie same effect speake all the fathers I assure you if it were needfull to repeat their wordes I beseech you saith S Chrisostom weigh not what this man or that thinketh in 2. Cor. hoâ—â—â— but touching all things search the scriptures S. Hierom saith Quod de scripturis autoritatem non habet eadem â—acilitate contemnitur qua probatur in 23. Mat. that which is not warranted by the scriptures may as easily be contemned as alleadged And so the rest of the fathers particularly euery one and therefore good Mother weigh it and note it that albeit both heretiques deuills abuse the scriptures by alleadging them to euill endes yet is it the true way and the onely way to be resolued by and to finde rest for our consciences in all matter of controuersie touching either faith or manners so taken so taught so held by Christ by his Apostles and by all the godly fathers and worthy approoued Councels in the world M. I must confesse that if the scriptures bee rightly applyed they are indeede the sure foundation that ought to be stood vpon but howe shall that appeare that you apply them rightly more then those whome you acknowledge heretiques which likewise haue alleadged them S. Good mother giue me leaue to make make much of that which I gaine from you in this conference and to recken it vp as deere vnto my verie soule for the duty I owe you and for the desire I haue that the trueth may be revealed vnto you This therefore now you see and confesse that although all the hereticks in the world and all the diuels in hell should alledge scripture and abuse it yet hath it not bin giuen of God in vaine but serueth as a sure ground of our faith and actions euery thing beeing alowable that is consonant vnto it and that alwaies faultie which is contrarie vnto it and therefore that we ought not to be beaten from it by any deuise of Satan but stedfastly to stick vnto it and euer to depend vpon it as the only sure ancher of our soules in like manner as all those worthy men and Councels before mentioned haue done For what quietnes to my minde like to this Thou Lord hast commanded me thus to beleeue and thus to doe therefore I so beleeve and so doe Interpretatioâ— of scripture Only you sticke nowe at the right application of them and aske howe shall you know that Surely mother you shall know it euen to your full contentment if you will doe as others before you godly and holy persons both men women haue done lib. 83. quaest 〈◊〉 Saint Austen saith Solet circumstantia Scripturarum illuminare sententiam The circumstance of the scriptures is vvout to giue light and open the meaning thereof in Esai c. 19 Saint Hierome saith Moris est scripturarum obscuris manifesta subnectere It s the manner of the scriptures after harde thinges to ioyne other things that be plaine Tertullian saith Opertet secundum plura intelligi pauciora The fewer things must be expounded by the moe Hil. de Trin. 9. S. Hilary saith Intelligentia dictorum ex causa dicendi fumenda est the vnderstanding of things spokeÌ„ must be taken froÌ„ the cause of speaking theÌ„ expraepositis consequeÌ„tibus by things going before and following after S Cyril saith Cyr. Thâ—s l. â— c. 2. whensoeuer we woulde vnderstande any place of scripture we must consider three things the time when it was written the person that writ and to whome or of whom and the matter it selfe Many such good rules haue the fathers which as you see greatly help in the thing you desire and which if we vse no doubt we shall finde as they found then haue we the gratious promise of gods holy spirit if we aske it and what a sure guide is that the performance of which promise see in the Gospell c. 24. then opened he their vnderstanding that they might vnderstand the scriptures See it in
that good woman Lydia the purple seller 〈◊〉 16. whose heart was also opened This blessed gift doth the Apostle think of when he wisheth to the Ephesians the spirit of wisdome and revelation that the eyes of their vnderstanding might be opened â—hes 1.17 lightned that they might knowe c. So to the Philippians and to the Colossians and of this speaketh Elihu in the booke of Iob â—lip 1.9 â—lost 1.9 There is a spirit in man but the inspiration of the almighty giueth vnderstanding Iob 32.8 This did king Dauid knowe and therefore asked this heauenly gift by earnest prayer often saying Teach me O Lord teach me thy statutes teach me thy waies open mine eyes that I may beholde the wonderfull things in thy lawe Origen saith Orandus est Deus vt aperiat librum obsignatum we must beseech God by prayer to open the booke that is sealed The Lord is no respect of persons but as he hath done he will doe and heare the desires of his children that wish to know his will This is the way mother this is the way that neuer failed any who vsed it neither will it faile you But you shall see by it the true and right applying of the scriptures howsoeuer others abuse and mis-construe them In a worde therefore marke I beseech you that we doe not affirme all cases of doubt to be by manifest and open wordes plainely expressed in scripture for so there should neede no exposition but we say and affirme that there is no case in religion necessarie to Gods worship or mans salvation so darke and doubtful but it may necessarily be either prooued or disprooued by true collection and conference in scripture M Sonne I marke your speech well and your words fall not to the ground yet I hope you will confesse that our men doe well in regarding the doctours as they doe S. Surely mother I doe confesse the doctours of the Church worthy of more regard then is giuen them sometimes by Romish Catholickes Doctoures And you see by my alleadging of them that I greatly regard them But seeing you haue mentioned this matter I doe hartely intreat you to marke a fewe things in that behalfe First that they are not Domini sedduces nostri Not our Lords but our leaders And therfore S. Augustin saith Other writers or fathers besides the holy scriptures I read in this sort that be their learning or holinesse neuer so great I wil not thinke it true because they haue thought so but because they are able to perswade me so either by Canonicall writers or els by some likely reason Likewise againe This kind of writings meaning the holy doctoures must be reade not with necessitie to beleeue each thing but with libertie to iudge each thing For we may not consent to the bishops notwithstanding they be Catholike â—nit Eccl. c. if they iudge contrarie to the holy Canonicall scriptures This is the right credit of holy fathers they are not the trueth of God it selfe but onely witnesses vnto the trueth no more haue they they theÌ„selues euer desired no lesse ought we euer to giue them Heare I pray you the words of the same father againe we receiue not the disputations or writings of any men be they neuer so Catholicke or praise-worthy Fortunat. â—â—t 111. as we receiue the Canonicall scriptures but that sauing their reuerence we may well reprooue or refuse some things in their writings if it happen we finde they haue otherwise though then the trueth may beare them out such am I in the writings of others and such would I wish others to be in mine He writeth to S. Hierom againe to the same effect Non puto frater ep 19. c. My brother I doe not thinke you would haue vs so to read your bookes as if they were written by the Apostles and Prophets To the like purpose writeth Tertullian of himselfe and the rest wherein their holy modestie is worthy great praise for euer they tooke not vpon them to be Lords but leaders and to that ende the Lord hath giuen theÌ„ as excellent lights to his church So of Counsels S. Austen telleth vs that the former are reiected by the later c. Likewise Panormitan saith vve ought to giue more credit to on lay man then to an whole councell and to the Pope if he bring better authority and more reason This is my first obseruatioÌ„ in this matter of the doctours My secoÌ„d is this which I humbly pray you to marke that as scriptures haue beene abused by heretiques so haue fathers and therefore if we must giue ouer the one for mis-applyings so must we the other also for the same reason The Arrian heretiques alleadged Origens bookes for their defence and safegard Socr. l. 4. c. Concil Ch act 2. p. 732 the heretique Eutiches saide I haue read the writings of the father Saint Cyprian as also of other holy writers and of the holy father Saint Athanasius Another of his sect cryed this is my faith according to the exposition of 318 fathers The Nestorian heretiques alleadged the Counsel of Nice p. â—â—7 and not to weary you with many Dioscorus the heretique cried out in the open Councell of Chalcedon 〈◊〉 1. p. 767. Ego habeo testimonia sanctorum patrum I haue the testimonies of the holy fathers Athanasius Gregory Cyrill I varie not from them in any point I am thrown forth and banished with the fathers I defend the fathers doctrine I haue their iudgement vttered not by chaunce or vnaduisedly but remaining expressed in their bookes Therefore you see good mother that heretiques haue cried as well fathers fathers as scriptures scriptures and yet neither the one nor the other for this cause to be reiected My third obseruation might be of counterfeit and young yesterday fathers alleadged by papists and of small credit or reuerence giuen to fathers by them that boast thus of fathers when they please whereof I assure you we haue notable examples with many things moe but that I feare to be troublesome vnto you M. Yet sonne seeing our faith was long before yours me thinks the fathers should rather make for vs then for you S. And why say you not so of the scriptures which were many yeares before any of the fathers Surely if your faith were before ours Old faith as well scriptures as fathers would giue on your side and indeed both would make for you New faith the fathers desiring to holde nothing but that they iudged agreeable to scripture which euer they make the rule and ground of faith and trueth and not their own writings as you haue seene But good Mother they abuse you and many moe that tell you your faith that is as nowe you meane the Romish faith was before ours for I assure you it is not so but very newe and younge in comparison of ours M. What our faith newe Sonne yours old Alas I see these
newe teachers haue possest you mightily you are so carried away with them that they are able to make you beleeue any thing Why tell me the crowe is white or the snowe is blacke S. Good Mother the Lord hath mooued your heart to heare me speake who am yours and of you If I speake amisse as you thinke and so as you cannot consent vnto me with me leaue we it both to the working power of a mighty God who in further time can giue further light and vnderstanding to his children that humbly craue it and are not lifted vp with an high hand to withstand his offered grace Onely according to this motherly loue that you haue began to shew me vouchsafe to here me still vpon what groundes I haue setled my selfe and with what proofe I am mooued to thinke as I doe M. Surely sonne I coulde not abide or indure to heare any other once speake of such a straunge thing as this but say you on what you list you are my childe S. I doe verely beleeue it seemeth most straunge to you and to many moe of your side to heare that your religion is newe and ours olde Yet I doubt not but to make it evidently apparent vnto you and all whosoeuer shall without preiudice duly consider my allegations and proofe But first I must interpret my selfe in a worde or two what I meane by your faith and religion I pray you therefore when I speake of your Romish religion thinke not that I meane the whole doctrine and all the articles of faith and religion taught and professed by the Papists but onely those points of doctrine wherein they differ from vs. For in generall they hold the doctrine of the lawe and tenne commandements as we doe sauing that they leaue out the second commandement which forbiddeth the worshipping of Idols and Images making two of the tenth they professe also the summe of the gospell at least in generalitie and in wordes to wit that Christ Iesus perfect God and perfect man hath wrought our full redemption and by the blood of his crosse and pretious death prrfect obedience hath deliuered vs from eternall death the fierch and euerlasting wrath of God the due desert of our transgressions and purchased for vs euerlasting peace and blisse they maintaine also and professe in wordes as we also doe the three creedes the Nicene the Athanasian and the Apostolike creede wherein is comprised the summe of our faith and the doctrine we professe they acknowledge that most excellent forme and paterne of prayer taught vs in the gospel by our Sauiour and vse it and many other good and godly prayers which we also vse euen all those vvelneere in our common liturgie except a very fevve for our most gratious Queene sauing that they vse theÌ„ in latin vve in english that all may vnderstand and say amen Wherefore vvhen I say that your religion is nevv meane not generally nor of the things before rehearsed but only in respect of certeÌ„ other articles and points of religion maintained by Romish catholikes as namely 1. that the traditioÌ„s of the church are of equall authority vviâ—h the vvorde of god to be embraced with like reuerence and deuotion 2. that the vulgar latin translation commonly called Hieromes is onely authenticall 3. that the imputation of Christs righteousnes and obedience to the faithfull is a fantasie without ground in Gods word 4. that the bread in the sacrament of the Eucharist transubstantiated into the body of Christ is to be adored 5. that the faithfull are able to keepe the whole lawe of God 6. that the Pope is Christs generall vicar vpon earth hauing absolute power to ratifie or disanull all manner of decrees and ordinances and to dispense with the expresse and moral precepts of God at his pleasure 7. That the whole Church without him can neither enact nor infringe any lawe ecclesiasticall nor interpret any scripture 8. that the holy scriptures ought not to be translated into any vulgar tongue or reade of the lay people 9. that the sacrament of the Lords supper is to be administred onely in bread and not in wine Quia sapor possit generate suspitionem quòd esset ibi â—inum least as the Sorbonists at Paris say the people should smell it to be wine and so doubt of transubstaÌ„tiatioÌ„ 10. that good works are meritorious and that by them we are iustified in the sight of God 11. that the soules of the faithfull dying before perfect repentance suffer the torments of purgatory 12. that prayers are to be made in an vnknowen tongue such like of al which and the rest wherein they disagree from vs I say they are newe and yesterday opinions in comparison of the faith which we hold consonant to the holy scriptures and those famous ancient creeds before mentioned And therefore now to proceede to the declaration of that which I haue vndertaken touching the noueltie of your faith Thus good Mother haue our men written at this day teach that it goeth not with Religion as it doth with the statutes of the realme iudgements at common law where the later is thought to be the better but in religion the first and eldest is best Therefore they euer remember that golden saying of Tertullian that is true which was first that is first which was from the beginning and that was from the beginning which was deliuered by the Apostles but our faith is that was deliuered by the Apostles yours is not therfore ours is froÌ„ the beginning and so first yours not and therefore later Now that ours is that which was deliuered by the Apostles they prooue it thus Another ancient father saith That which the Apostles preached and deliuered to the world by preaching Irenaeus they afterward by the will of God committed to writing that for euer it might be the foundation and ground of faith Wherevpon it followeth that which the Apostles preached is the old auncient Catholike and Apostolike saith but that which they haue written is that which they preached so saith this father therfore that which is written is the true auncient Catholike and Apostolike faith that is ours For as I haue saide we hold nothing as necessarie to salvation but that which is truly taught vs out of these written scriptures Therefore our faith is that which was deliuered by the Apostles your faith is not that which is written For your men wil not be tried by the scriptures onely as knowing that many things they hold haue no warrant there but haue deuised vnwritten traditions therefore yours is not that which was deliueeed by the Apostles and not the old faith but a late newe faith devised by men M VVhy that which was deliuered by tradition Tradition was deliuered by the Apostles as wel as that which they wrot S. True Mother if it could as soundly appeare vnto vs what they deliuered as it doth by their writings what they preached But
to the worldes ende Reade I beseech you the chapter your selfe and you shall see the fierce wrath of the Lord against them for this answere and for this doing He sweareth by his great name a dreadfull punishment that he will not vouchsafe to haue his name any more mentioned by them but he will watch ouer them for euill and not for good till they all be consumed by the sworde and by the famine with an vtter destruction This is the liking that God hath of following others before vs and of alleadging their examples without due care and consideration of their doings whether they were answerable to Gods word the rule of his liking and pleasure yea or no. By his Prophet Ezechiel againe he instructeth vs of his pleasure in this matter â— 20. v. 18. and deliuereth it for his absolute commandement In statutis patruÌ„ nolite ambulare vvalke ye not in the ordinances of your fathers neither obserue their manners meaning rashly vnadvisedly hand ouer head without examination howe these ordinances and manners pleased God For so saieth the prophet you may defile your selves either vvith Idols â— .19 or some other thing displeasing to God But if you vvill euer be sure and safe followe the true rule and the onely right vvay I am the Lord your God vvalke in my statutes keepe my commandements c. Which sound counsell the godly father had his eye vpon when he saide Non debemus attendere quid aliquis ante nos faciendum putauerit sedquid qui ante omnes est Christus prior fecerit vve may not regard what some before vs thought meete to be done but what he who vvas before all men Iesus Christ our deare Sauiour did that that is our rule in whatsoeuer we are to imitate him I cannot omit to remember Lactantius his wordes in this matter Deorum cultores libentèr errant stultitiae favent suae à quibus sirationem requiras per suasionis eius Institut l. 5. â— nulla possunt reddere sed ad maiorum iudicia confugiunt quòd illi sapientes fuerint The vvorshippers of many Gods saith he doe vvillingly erre and favour their owne folly of vvhome if you aske a reason of their perswasion and opinion they can giue none but straight flie to the iudgement of their forefathers saying they vvere wise men c. And is not this the verie answer of Romish Catholicks at this day Can they giue any reason a number of them but euen this now mentioned of heretickes and Idolatours I vvas borne and baptized in this faith and mine owne father and mother charged me vpon their blessing to be of this opinion c. they were as wise men and women as we and such like But how good these answers bee you see if you either regard scripture or fathers to be taught by them Lactantius nippeth this folly we see by his words and euer it shall be derided Our soules cost more then that should pinne them on any mens sleeues were they neuer so neere or deare vnto vs. Clemens Alexand hath the like good speach Alii dicuÌ„t im pium est si non colamus ea quae nobis tradita sunt à patribus nostris religionem praevaricamur à matoribus datam Hac ratione sicuius pater latro fuerit aut sicuius leno à patribus sibi traditam consuetudinem mutare no debet nec ad meliorem viam à paternis erroribus reuocari Others say it is a great wickednesse if we worship not those things which are by our forefathers deliuered vnto vs and we betray the religion of our fathers but by this reason if any mans father were a theife or a bawde he ought not to chaunge the custome deriued from his father nor be reduced to a better way from his fathers errour Thus derideth he againe this fonde kinde of argument My father did so and so his father before him again therefore I will doe so anâ vvill not bee persvvaded Yea assuredly thus haue euer all truely instructed derided it And it neuer was nor neuer shall be a fitte aunswere for a childe of God When I thinke of this matter sometimes I make a comparison betwixt the body and the soule and I aske of a Romish Catholicke whether if his father and diuers others of his auncestoures had a bodily disease whereof they died for want of skill to cure it he nowe hauing the same successiuely after them and the cure well knowen would yet wilfully die of his infirmity as his forefathers did rather then swarue from the example and be cured He will answere no. And yet in the matter of the soule which is farre aboue the bodie hath not grace to consider what an absurd answer it is to alleadge his father vnlesse he know by the rule of gods word that his father indeed was to be followed So you see deare mother both your questions answered and how it is no new matter but a very ancient subtiltie to entangle men and womens mindes with the examples of their forefathers because naturally we all reuerence and loue those of whome we are descended But it is no right way For we both may and ought sometimes to dissent from them and yet not sit in iudgement vpon them as though they were damned God beeing indeede able to saue them as we haue heard neither ought we thereby to take occasion of presumption to condemne the grace offered vs though denied to others as we ought not to refuse a bodily medicine to saue our life because our fathers know it not Surely if they had had the light that is vouchsafed vs they would haue excelled vs as farre as angels excell men M. I see sonne gods spirit bloweth where it listeth and happy is the man and woman whose eare he openneth To heare is good and either to stoppe our eaâ—e or to harden our heart with a premeditate opinion is most dangerous for as the Apostle perswadeth to hospitality because so men haue receiued angels into their houses so by hearing is god receiued who made the angels and by refusing to heare the doore is shut vpon him most dangerously and be excluded S. O deare Mother giue your owne flesh and blood leaue with knees of heart bowed before the Lord to reioyce for this your holy speech to praise the name of the most high whose mercy hath neither bottom nor measure and to beseech him for his sweete sonnes sake to goe forward in mercy and pitty towards his deceiued children that they may see their saluation in Iesus Christ embrace the trueth and be saued M. To this your prayer sonne I say with all mine heart amen But yet I haue not done with you I haue heard some say that if this way that you so dislike to follow the church of Rome and to beleeue as we are taught by the successours of Peter were to goe astraie why hath it not beene noted so till now of late yeares Can any of
vnto his feete and a light vnto his pathes So shall conscience be a sure guide and he reforme himselfe by true obedience both to God and man Otherwise as I haue saide what we call conscience is but a fancie a conceit and a false erroneous perswasion such as if we still will follow against God against prince against countrie and all that euer any gouernours or friendes can say vnto vs the daie will come when wee shall feele with woe the punishment of such obstinacy and true conscience shall witnesse the want of conscience in so proudly disobeying all good perswasions which God forbid in his great mercy and turne our hearts in time vnto his trueth M. But I take it there is a plaine scripture that who so doth a thing which in his heart he thinketh he should not doe committeth deadly sinne because he doth against his own conscience or against his owne pretensed knowledge S. Good mother the scripture you mean as I conceiue is written in the 14 chapter of the Epistle to the Romans where the blessed Apostle saith He that doubteth is condemned if he eate because he eateth not of faith and what soeuer is not of faith is sinne Which place little helpeth any popish ignorance or stubburne wilfullnesse but is greatly by Romish Catholickes abused and wrested as other scriptures to serue for their way wardnesse Concerning which text thus haue our men truely and godlily answered long agoe and often first that the Apostle speaketh there of a particular and certaine matter papists applying these wordes generally to whatsoeuer they doe contrary to their erroneous conscience or pretensed knowledge 2. that the particular matter which the Apostle speaketh of is a thing indiffereÌ„t wheras Papists apply the wordes to things simply good and simply euill saying the former may be left vndone if my erring conscience be against it the later done without sinne if my pretensed knowledge lead me to it 3. That the things which the Apostle speaketh of were such as God himselfe was author of in his lawe as distinction of meate and daies which whilst the Iewes wonne to the Gospel did in those daies retaine though they did it ignorantly not knowing the libertie of the Gospell yet till they might be fully perswaded therein by faith which is grounded on doctrine and on the word they were bound to keepe by the commandement of God himselfe 4. That the manner and end of the Apostles bearing is not to nourish errour or to harden such an one in his opinion and doing but by patience to drawe him to trueth in the ende which manner of tolerance the Apostle calleth edification vers 19. and chap. 15.2 Lastly the Apostle speaketh not of Gentiles infidels nor of stubburn Christians but of a brother a faithfull man and one that hath receiued and embraced the profession of the Gospell but is weake through ignorance of some one point pertaining to Christian liberty in the outward vse of Gods creatures wherein he is not throughly perswaded of instructed of bearing with such an one by those whome God hath called to more plentifull knowledge of his heauenly trueth speaketh he All which things duly considered the true sence of the place appeareth thus namely that the faithfull for his particular regard beeing in doubt or lacking the full perswasion of faith which is giuen by measure and hath his time of groweth and increasing cannot without danger and therefore ought not attempt to do that wherein he is not already by the word of God and faith fully and throughly resolued But mark this double caution first that his absteining from the outward action be without danger of offence and scandall secondly that he stand not stiffâ—ly in his owne opinion flattering himselfe therein but ready vpon further instruction and knowledge to grow forward and to profit yea desirous also of such instruction and whatsoeuer other meanes may help to the better informing of his conscieÌ„ce in that behalfe whereby he may both clearely see the thing doubted of to the good holy and lawfull do the same with all sincerity faithfullnes M. But what if without daÌ„ger of offending God and prince I caÌ„not abstaine from the outward action and yet doubt in my selfe S. Your obedience beeing due it lesse offendeth to commit one fault then two that is to doe what you ought though doubtingly then both do doubt and disobey The doubting is a fault the obedience is none Amend what is euill by better instruction withdraw not what is good and due by all right He is condemned saith the Apostle if he eate not because he eteth but because he eateth not of faith In a lawefull action therefore it is not the deed which offendeth but the doubting that is not the matter but the manner performe obedience with a single heart and God in meane shall blesse it with true resolution M. Doth not then an erroneous conscience binde S. It may be borne withall for a time in charitable regard of weakenesse and in hope of better instruction but God forbidde that it should still binde and bee a couer or excuse for wilfull waywarde and malitious disobedience 2. Thes 2. 1. Tim. 4. For then to bee giuen ouer to a strong delusion to beleeue lies is not such a iudgement as the Apostle maketh it neither yet to haue the conscience feared with an hotte iron 2. Tim. 1.19 It is not right which the Apostle teacheth that vpon the putting away of a good conscience their followeth any shipwracke of faith or that the wicked haue their very mindes and consciences defiled 1. Tit. 1. For if the colour of such a conscience binde excuse and saue harmeles how is it defiled can that which is defiled it selfe make cleane any action But ô miserable doctrine that false reason should be made a guide to will and we bound to followe so blinde a guide The very heathen philosophers were not so madde For they talke of recta ratio and of mens sana in corpore sano of right and true reason and of a sound minde in a sounde body c. A Iewe sinneth mortally say these Catholike teachers if coÌ„â—ratrary to his pretensed knowledge or against his erroneous conscience he acknowledge in Trinitie Iesus Christ the second person yea the Iewes had sinned mortally if they had not crucified Christ according to their erring consciences Againe to beleeue in Christ if false reason propound it as euill is euill yea to worship the deuill beeing deceiued by the same reason is not onely not a sinne but a good worke O Catholike doctrine Then for the second table if a man leauing his wife and going into another countrie marry another and after repenting himselfe would leaue her affirming his former wife to be aliue and the Church suffer him not beeing ignorant of the trueth of that his assertion although this latter marriage bee nought and the man consequently an adulterer Deare mother marke this stuffe the
woman being excused by ignorance yet compelled by the disciplinâ— of the Church his obedience excuseth him This is grosse and knowne adultery excused by these holy Catholicks false reason and erring conscience ruleth this kingdoÌ„e of darkenesse so shamefully If this be not libertinisme what is Alas why might not this fauour be shewed in Queene Maries daies that an erring conscience should excuse Why were men and women then compelled to doe contrary to their consciences which at worst must be granted to be erroneous consciences Nay see their partiality yet more for if one of their prelats command what a mans erring coÌ„science stardeth at then they say such a man ought to lay away that his conscience and obey his prelate And why not when God coÌ„mandeth should a man doe the like O blinde guides what doctrine is this if the commandement of an inferiour officer or magistrate bind not when the superiour as King or Emperour commandeth the contrary how may an erring conscience euer bind me against the Lord Gods booke is so farre from allowing this erring conscience and this preteÌ„sed knowledge that it onely alloweth good and suffereth not euill to be done that good may come of it M. Surely I see more harshnesse in the doctrine then I did before But on the other side to compell and force any body by lawes and penalty before the conscience be fully perswaded is it not as harsh and hard to S VVhere there is an honest plaine meaning to indeauour to be perswaded and resolued god forbidde but some time should bee graunted And I thinke it is so in all places But propound the matter thus whether a godly prince after a time giuen meanes graunted to be taught and instructed and after al gentlenes patience vsed his subjects refusing to be taught and contemning that gratious great fauour continuing still perveâ—sly and obstinately in Idolatrie and superstition whether I say then by lawes and punishments to compel theÌ„ to the true worship of God be so harde and harsh And then truth wil answer that it is not but iust godly and fit For not onely to maintaine publike peace is the sword giuen but also to see that God be serued according to his coÌ„mandements â—trieis cal â—amans â—â—tum that is both the tables are coÌ„mitted to him the breaches of both ought by him to be punished otherwise man should bee regarded more then God the lesser duties more then the greater In which holy and relious duty hath not the magistrate god for his patterne who after words of admonition giueÌ„ to his own elect deare children if they take no place coÌ„pelleth as it were by crosses rods of his fatherly loue to the bettering of their course leauing of euill Yea is not our own practise so with our own children if gentle admonition will not serue wherevpoÌ„ the saying spraÌ„ge he that spareth the rod hateth the child what shall we say to the Scriptures that are as plaine for the warraÌ„t of this matter as we need to desire did not Nabuchodonosor make a law that euery people nation and language which spak any blasphemy against the god of Sidrach c. should be drawn in peeces Dan. 3.29 their houses made a â—akes Darius also made another decree chap 6. In the book of Chronicles Asa destroieth Idolatry coÌ„mandeth his people to serue the true God 2. Chro. 14.14 yea he sweareth them and deposeth his mother for adulterie whose erroneous conscience was in all likelihood as stroÌ„g as any Papists for his popery In the book of Ezra we read that the king of Persia made a decree that the Iewes should build their temple that they should haue all things necessarie for their sacrifices that they might offer sweet odours vnto the God of heauen pray for the kings life the life of his sonns Also he made another law that whosoeuer should alter that sentence a penal statâ—â— the wood should be pulled down from his house and set vp and he hanged thereon his house made a dunghil for this Ezra 6.11 And the god that hath caused his name to dwell their saith that lawe destroy all kings and people that put their hand to alter and destroy this house of God which is in Hierusalem Idarius haue made a decree let it be done with speede After againe which I pray you good mother to marke authority is giuen to set iudges and arbiters which may iudge all the people that is beyond the riuer p. 7.25 euen al that knowe the lawe of God and to teach all that know it not and whosoeuer will not obey the law of God the kings lawe saith that statute let him haue iudgemeÌ„t without delay whether it be vnto death or punishment to confiscation of goodes or to imprisonment What lawe did euer any prince make more plaine without any regard to a pretended conscience wanting true grounde out of the law of god For if that might either then or nowe be allowed what lawe coulde holde against which he that list not to be reformed would not obiect his erroneous conscience VVhat gouernment could any prince in the world settle and establish Away therefore with this idle dreame of a pretended conscience and marke how neuer in any gouernment it was regarded after waies and meanes vsed for the reformation of it but euer subiected to the penaltie of the lawe beeing indeede an obstinacy both against god and prince worthy punishment In the newe testament is it not saide Luk. 14.23 Goe into the high vvaies anà compell to come in that my house my be full I forgotte to remember you of that lawe and penall statute made by the king of Ninive Ionah 3. which was so well liked of god but you may now thinke of it and adde it to the rest of the olde testament If we looke at practise Polonia Russia Lituania were forced at the commaundement of their rulers to forsake their auntient Idols Munst Cosm 4. p. 894.902 L. 3. p. 719.74 and to receiue baptisme Good princes also maintained long and sharpe warres to compell the Saxons and Vandals to the faith c. The lawes of this realme blessed be god force to nothing but what is directly prooued in scripture And the constraint is not outragious with fire and sword but tempered with mercy that is free from losse of life and limme such as the true Church of god neuer disliked and Christian princes alwaies vsed with great and good successe It is tempered also with good instruction to forsake error wherewith Christ is dishonoured and his trueth defaced Romish Catholicks revenge the smallest contempt of their idle ceremonies with vnsufferable torments Their prelats make it their occupation to persecute to death all sorts ages and Sexes which refuse their schoole-tricks or dregges of their Clementines or decretalls Howe then can they finde fault with any due compulsion full of mercy and profit to