vnto them Nay were they not therefore wholy to be separated from and left to the iudgement of God Num. 16. which ouertooke them and all that ioyned vnto them Yet was their error onely in matters of order and outward gouernement of the Church This may suffize to conuince the aduersaries vntrue assertions in this place To that of Maister Cranmer and Ridley c. is answered before For conclusion therefore this we adde concerning this poinct That all such assemblies and people as holde professe and practise as doth the Church of England these abominations following They can not by the word of God be esteemed in such estate trulie to holde Christ their Prophet Priest and King Towit The confusion of all sortes of people though neuer so wicked and their seed in the body of the Church The offices and callings of other Archb. and Lordb. then Iesus Christ also of Archdeacons Chancellors Commissaries Officials Priestes halfe Priestes Parsons Vicars Vagrant and Mercinarie Preachers c. The entrance into the Ministerie by an other way and by other Lord then Iesus Christ The executing of it vnder those strange Lords leauing it at their pleasure The preaching of the word administration of the Sacramentes and gouerning of the Church by vertue of the offices and callings afore said according to the Popish Canons and constitutions The power of Excommunication in the Prelates alone and their Officialls The confounding of Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall offices and authoritie in the Ministers of the Church The forbidding of Mariage at certen seasons The imposing and vsing of stinted deuised Liturgies The English Portuis taken out of the Popes latine word for worde saue that a fewe of the grosest thinges are left out yet keeping the same frame and order of Collectes Psalmes Lessons Pater nosters Pistles Gospels Versicles Respondes c. Appointing holy dayes to all Sainctes and Angels to the Virgin Marie Iohn Baptist Marke Luke and twelue Apostles seuerallie togeather with Fastes on the Eaues and on Ember dayes Fridayes Satterdayes Lent Prescribing the Ministers to pray ouer the dead ouer the Corne and Grasse at some seasons of the yeere and ouer Women at their Courching or purification Ioyninge them also to marie with the Ring which they make a sacramentall signe And to Baptise likewise with the signe of the Crosse with Godfathers and Godmothers with questions demanded of the infant that can not speake nor vnderstande Giuing power to Women to baptise And ordeyning that the other Sacrament of the Lords Supper be celebrated kneeling as when they receyue their maker and with change of the wordes of Christes institution taking in steed of them the wordes of the Popes Masse booke translated into English c. Finallie the vpholding of these and all such amongst them onely by carnall weapons of imprisonment death confiscation of goods banishment and such like The assemblies I say and people which holde professe and practize as doeth this Church of Englande the abominations afore said concerning the outward order and gouernement of the Church what soeuer truethes they holde besides yet can they not by the word of God be deemed truely to hold the Lord Iesus their Prophet Priest and King in such constitution of a church Neither therefore can they in this estate by the word of God be accounted true Christians nor the true constituted churches of Christ this is the question betweene vs and our aduersaries 7. Lastlie let the godlie and indifferent Reader iudge whether it will not followe vppon this answere in this place First that the a Contrarie to 1. Tim. 3.15 2. Tim. 3.16 Deut. 12.32 1. Corin. 4.6 Reu. 22.18 19 Scriptures are not sufficient for the building vp and guidance of the Church here on earth Secondlie that the b Contrarie to the 2. Tim. 3.17 with 1. Tim. 3.15 Pro. 2.1.9 Psal 119.105.13 men of God can not by the Scriptures be made absolute and fullie furnished to euery good worke Thidlie that c Contrarie to Col. 2.3 Heb. 3.1 2 3. Esay 32.22 Ephe. 4.11.12.13 1. Cor. 11. and 12. and 14. Rom. 12.3 4 5 6 7 8. Mat. 28.20.1 Tim. 6.13 14. Christ him selfe in whom the treasures of wisedome and knowledge are hid yet was so foolishe carelesse and vnfaithfull as hauing an house and kingdome which is his Church he hath not in his word appointed vnto it anie offices lawes and orders for the due gouerning and ordering thereof Finallie That the d Contrarie to the 2. Cor. 6.14 15 16. Psal 94.20 119.21.113.128 Reu. 9.1 2 3 and 14.9 10 11. Hierarchie Worship Sacramentes Traditions Canons and whatsoeuer constitutions of Antichrist concerning the outward orders and gouernement of the church being appointed by the Church and Magistrate are to be accounted Christes owne ordinances O shameles impietie Doubtles this is that same strange passion and meere desperatnes wherewith afterwarde vniustlie they charge vs which we will not prosecute as it deserueth but exhort them onely to take heede least that woe come vppon them whiche is written Woe vnto them that speake good of euill and euill of good which put darknes for light and light for darknes that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter Woe vnto them that are wise in their owne eyes and prudent in their owne sight Esa 5.20.21 H. IACOB his 2. Reply to the 2. Except IN this your defence of your secōd Exception it pitieth me to see your extreame folly which is the more miserable because it appeareth to be not of weaknes but of wilfulnes You would know of vs if we hold Christ to be our Prophet Priest and King and if we professe to obey him in his own ordinances and in no other I answered we doe constantly prosesse so and as we professe so wee practise But to make our profession practize in this poinct more manifest I noted how our stare meaneth Christ to be our Prophet Priest and King and how hee is to be obeyed viz. That the written word ought of necessitie to shew vs our inward and meare spirituall beleif obedience As for the outward Church order our state holdeth that it is arbitrary to bee appoincted and abrogated againe at the liking of the Church and Magistrate And that the worde no where forbiddeth this libertie Where note in this explication two thinges First it is foule wrong to our Churches and to my wordes to say as you doe That they meane no outward orders at all be matters of faith or constant in the Scriptures Nay it was neuer doubted but to preach to pray to administer Sacraments c. though externall yet are perpetuall things and necessarie and vnchangable by the Scriptures My expresse wordes and our Churches meaning is That any reasonable kinde of Church gouernement and rites and orders are arbitrary and changeable no matters of faith nor written in the Scriptures And yet still Christ to be our only and absolute King Prophet neuerthelesse Whosoeuer doth
theirs did not And that I trust is sound Which thing also you might haue remembred if you had ben so charitable by that which I wrote in “ In the next treatise following of the cōparison of the Ministery with Mariage Ans to your first Reason another place Then in your first answer Pag. 14. Howe vainely doe yow aske vs for Scriptures to proue those orders seing I expresly called them errors The like in your Second wher you load vp Scriptures to disproue thē Also Thirdlie you charge an vnconscionable vntruth on mee if you meane this answere vnto me that I should graunt and cannot deny that all outward ceremonies and gouernement are arbitrary at mans pleasure I onelie said that our state holdeth that generall opinion Not that I my selfe held it If you meane them write to them and speake to them if you meane me you doe me foule iniurie Fourthly whether they are Popish shiftes or no let our state which mainteyneth these things answer you Your Fift is answered in the first poinct of my explication noted before pag. 19. To your Sixt in pag. 16. wee aunswered before in the Second poinct of my explication pag. 19. Your Seuenth in pag. 18. is also against the state of our Church and not against me Maister IOHNSONS 3. Exception against the former Assumption with Maister IACOBS Replies to the same EXCEPTION 3. THirdlie let them shew by the Scriptures howe the 36. Article of their doctrine booke alleadged agreeth with the Gospell of Christ and true Christianitie The words of the Article are these as followeth The Booke of consecrating of Archbishops and Bishops and ordering of Priestes and Deacons doth conteyne all thinges necessarie to such consecration and ordering neyther hath it any thing that of it selfe is superstitious or vngodly And therefore whosoeuer are consecrated or ordered according to the Rytes of that booke we decree all such to be rightly orderly and lawfully consecrated and ordered Moreouer how it agreeth with the Gospell and true Christianitie That Apocripha bookes and the booke of Homilies be read in the church by the Ministers diligentlie and distinctlie As is in Art 6. and 35. of that doctrine and booke aforesaid H. IACOB his 1. Reply to the 3. Excep YOur third Exception is this That the 36. Article of ordaining Bishops Priests and Deacons Also the reading of Apocripha bookes and Homelies in the Church agree not with true Christianitie Ergo the Assumption aboue is false that is the whole doctrine of that booke of Articles is not sufficient to make vs true Christians I answer you should haue said those poincts destroy vtterly true Christianity Ergo c. Else the Argument followeth not But then we deny flatly the Antecedent or first part of the reason But your Reason you will say shall goe as you haue put it Then marke these reasons euen as good as yours and all one An Ethiopian is white of his teeth therefore he is a white man A Swanne is black of his bill therefore a Swanne is black My brother hath an eye of glasse or he hath a wodden legge therfore my brother is no true man F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 3. Excep OVr third Exception was this Whereas they referred vs to their booke of Artieles 1562. were quired that they should shew by the Scriptures how the 36. Article there mentioned which is of the booke of consecrating Archbiships and Bishops and of ordeyning Priests and Deacons And howe also the 6. and 35. Articles of that booke enioyning the Apocripha bookes and Homilies to bee read in the Church by the Ministers distinctlie and diligentlie Howe these J say doe agree with the Gospell of Christ and true Christianitis Now I pray you haue they shewed vs these things by the Scriptures as we desired nothing lesse First therefore marke this heere and euerie where also in their reasons and answeres that though wee call neuer so much to them for proofe and euidence from the Scriptures yet they neuer bring it but labour to put it off with other shiftes deuices of their owne As if our consciences were to be built vpon their fancies and not vppon the written worde of God But what doe they say to our demaund First they tell vs These thinges doe not vtterly destroy true Christianitie Secondly they graunt notwithstanding that they agree with it as blacke doeth with white that is they are cleane contrarie vnto it For this their similitudes doe import Nowe whereas they alleadge That these thinges destroy not true Christianitie We answere That euen that Hyerarchie worship constitution and gouernement which they professe and practize as appeareth by those and other their Articles and iniunctions in our former answere alleadged to which yet we haue receyued no aunswere being directly Antichristian doe * Nota vtterlie destroy true Christianitie so as the people and Churches so professing and practizing can not in that estate by the worde of God be iudged true Christians or the true constituted Churches of Christ. And touchinge the similitudes here vsed besides that which we haue noted before we adde moreouer that they are not against vs but against them selues in asmuch as comparing the doctrines of the Gospell which they professe with the whitenes of an Aethiopians teeth And their Antichristian Ministerie Worshop courtes and confusion of people with the blackenes of an Aethiopians body This and such like similitudes doe fitlie declare their estate And the approouing of the black constitution of their church Assemblies by some white doctrines of the Gospell which they professe Is euen as if they should reason thus An Aethiopian is white of his teeth therefore he is a white man A blacke Rauen is white of his bill Therefore a blacke Rauen is a white bird H. IACOB his 2. Reply to the 3. Exception YOur Third Exception is That the 16. Article of cōsecrating Bishops Priests and the 6. and 35. Artic of Apocripha and Homelies doe not agree with the Gospel What then Ergo our Churches profession and practize differ Most false For our Churches doe professe that these things doe agree with Gospell well enough Also their practise is thereafter Or doe you conclude Ergo our Churches holde not Christ to saluation In deede so I tooke your purpose at the first but nowe in plaine categoricall termes you auouch it That these things being directlie Antichristian doe vtterlie destroy true Christianitie So then Cranmer Ridley Latimer c. were verie Antichristes and no true Christians As before also I trowe you affirmed Surely this grosse and wicked absurditie I could not open better then by this similitude This man hath a wodden legge an eye of glasse his nose deformed adde if you will both his armes not naturall but framed to him of wood or what you will Ergo this is no true man Yes Sir for all this he is a true man For as much as all this concernes not the verie life and being of a man though
of Mariage and of meates if they had done no worse doeth not make them departers from the faith that is not “ Or not fundamētally not simply which words I think fitter to bee here vsed as in my next Reply is further declared totally No more could their Hyerarchie and ceremonies simply Neither doe these thinges make vs the Protestants to be such The Papistes fall from Christ “ That is fundamentally simply see in the 2. Answer following wholy in other poincts namely 1. The Papall supreamacy 2. The sacrifice of the Masse 3. Iustification by workes Which blessed bee God wee are farre from Therfore the Apostle in saying They departed from the faith meaneth in * Viz. in abstayning from Mariage and meates these poincts they erred or departed from the faith but not absolutlie wholie 2. Further more touching your Proposition if you vnderstand Paul of Martion the Haeretike and Tatianus who did absolutly condemne Marriage and certen meates they euen therein might wholie fall from the faith I meane somewhat like to Balaam Iudas and those Apostate Israelites lately spoken of Pag. 49. 57. namely for hauing their cōsciences conuicted and seared with a whot iron And thus are they in no comparison with vs of England nor with the Papistes neither if they had erred in nothing else F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 7. Reason HEre the aduersarie being not able with any colour to denie the consequēt of our Reasō neither to iustifie their present Ministerie worship Cannons Articles Iniunctions c. which yet he must doe still we call for it if he will iustifie their present estate yet being desperate sure for els he would neuer haue done it he feareth not to gainesay the Assumption that is the very wordes and testimonie of the scripture it selfe 1. Tim. 4.1 2 3. The Apostle sayth that they which forbidde Mariage Meates are departers from the faith This man sayth no. Nowe whether of these shall we beleeue But what colour hath this man for his deniall Forsooth this That they which doe so doe not departe from the faith totally and that the Apostles meaning is that in these poincts they departe from the faith but not absolutely and wholy So by this mans conceite none may be accounted departers from the faith that depart only in some poinctes but they which doe it totally from all And thus then may no heretikes or Antichristes that euer haue bene or shal be in the worlde be iudged departers frō the faith because they departe from it but in some poinctes and not absolutely from all Thus in one word hath he iustified at once the Arians Nestorians Sabellians Papistes Familistes Anabaptistes and whom not because they departe but in some not wholy from all poinctes of faith Js it not great pitie that Antichrist hath so long wanted this stour Champion that can thus in one worde iustifie his forbidding of meates and mariage yea and his most detestable Hyerarchie and superstitions Nowe by this mans learning all the Martirs writers heretofore that by euidence of this scripture cōuicted the Synagogues of Antichrist to haue departed from the faith and therefore separated from them were vtterly deceyued Nay and the Apostles them selues were wholy mistaken when speaking of Antichristes church and Religion they call it a * 2. Thes 2.7 misterie of iniquitie “ 1. Tim. 4.2 speaking lies through hypocrisie “ 2. Pet. 2.1 priuely bringing in damnable heresies and hauing a * Tim. 3.4 shewe of godlines but denying the power thereof And Johns eyes also it seemeth were not matches when he saith †Reue. 17.5 he sawe in the whores forehead that is in Antichristes church and Religion a name written A mysterie great Babylon the mother of whoredomes and abhominations of the earth For we would knowe of this deepe Clerke howe Antichristes church and religion should iustlie be accounted a mysterie of iniquitie and truely be saide to speake Lies in hypocrisie also priuely to bring in Damnable heresies and to haue a Shew of godlines if they did absolutely wholy departe from the faith and not onely from some pointes thereof But ouer and aboue all it seemeth by this reason that not onely the Apostles were mistaken in giuing vs sure markes howe to knowe false teachers and false religions 1 Tim. 1.2 3. 2 Pet. 2.1 2 Thes 2.7 2 Tim. 3.4 Reuel 17.5 But also Christ him selfe when he saide “ Mat. 7.15 Beware of false Prophetes which come to you in sheepes clothing but inwardlie are rauening wolues And againe * Mat. 2.23.24 Jf any shall say vnto you Loe here is Christ or there beleue it not For there shall arise false christes and false prophets and shall shew great signes and wonders so that if it were possible they should deceyue the very elect Nowe if they should totally departe from the faith what sheepes clothing J pray you should they haue to come in Or howe should either them selues be said to come in the name of Christ affirming their Religion to be Christes and shewing signes and wonders to drawe men therevnto Or the elect to be in such vnspeakeable daunger to be deceyued by them This might suffice to shewe the falsehood and impietie of his answere But we will note a fewe things moe therein It being graunted him that the popish forbidding of mariage and meates if they were not worse doeth not make them departers from the faith totally yet let him tell vs if holding neuer so manie truthes besides “ See in Bales Votaries Acts and monumēts c. what abominable filthines the forbidding of mariage and what superstitiō the forbidding of meates hath wrought in the kingdome of Antichrist yet forbidding these they could by the word of God truely be saide in that estate * What man fearing God durst once opē his mouth for such Diuelilh doctrines and estate to holde the faith of Christ and to be true Christians If they could not as the Apostle testifieth then is this answere in this respect also nothing to the purpose but against him selfe both for the popish forbidding of meates and marriages and for the English Hyerarchie and other abominations amongst them receyued from the Papistes which vnder colour of this answere heere he would defend Againe where he saith That the Papistes fall frō Christ in other poinctes besides the aforesaid Namely 1 The Papall supremacie 2. The sacrifice of the Masse 3. Iustification by workes which Englande nowe is farre from Let him tell vs First whether in this sence the Papistes can for these be said to departe from the faith totally If they can not then what weight is there in this for defence of their estate that the Papistes could not also alleadge for them selues to witt that in these poinctes they departe from the faith but not absolutely and wholy Secondly let him tell vs whether there are not other poinctes but these three in the
and thus we practise and wee are perswaded no Scripture to be against all this but rather for it I speake now concerning our Ministers and Congregations generally that is our publike Church state If yow say but there are diuers amongest vs that thinke otherwise I answere But this is the generall estate both of our Ministers and Churches howsoeuer one or two amongest hundreths or thousands may thinke otherwise shew the contrary if you can And our Churches they certenly must bee deemed after their generall estate and constitution not as one or two men thinke If you say this generall opinion and practize is an error Therefore they obey not Christs ordinances in truth herein though they thinke they doe I answere let it be so it is now * An error though not foundamētall the error of their iudgment as it was in Maister Cranmer Ridley c. Not pregnaunt rebellion and disobedience to Christe not a conuicted or seared conscience so that their other “ 1. Cor. 3.12 15. truthes of the foundation are not frustrat nor Christ made to none effect in thē And this is all our questiō Whether they remaine Christians still for all these faultes yea or no. F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 2. Excep COncerning our Second Exception it was propounded by way of demaund requiring that they would shewe vs if they held Jesus Christ to be the Prophet Priest King of his Church to be obeyed in his own ordinances onely and in no other howe then their practize agreeth with this profession One would haue thought that here it had bene good and needfull if they could to haue cleared this poinct by the Scriptures and the Testament of Christ and from thence to haue manifested that their Ministerie worship ministration gouernement c. which are called in questiō are no other then the Lord Iesus Christ that Prophet Priest and King of his Church hath in his Testament giuen and appointed therevnto And haue they not done this Surely no. What then doe they say First they tell vs That touching this poinct their profession and practize nowe is so as before time it was with M. Cranmer Ridley Latimer and their Cogregations But what of this Can the persons or age of thes whom he nameth nay can anie person or ages preiudice the trueth Were not they subiect to error at all or must their errors binde vs Did not Iohn Hus that worthy champion of Christ and others also of the Martyrs in former times say and heare Masse euen to their dying day not seeing the abomin ations thereof And did not diuers of thē acknowledge some the Popes calling and Supremacie some 7. Sacramentes some Purgatorie some Auricular confession and such like greeuous errours c And yet notwithstanding dyed most constantly for the truethes which they sawe and testified some for one and some for another as God manifested the trueth vnto them As may be seene at large in their seueral Histories in the Actes and Monumentes whether wee referre the Reader But may we nowe so professe and practize in these things as they did Or if we should were their ignorance and errours a sufficient defence for vs yet thus would this man beare vs in hande But moreouer let him tell vs if Maister Latimer and others did not forsake the Prelacie and functions they had before-time receyued And Maister Ridley at his death repent that he had bene so earnest for the remnantes of Poperie in his time retayned Besides also who knoweth not that when Maister Cranmer Ridley Latimer c. dyed Martyrs for the trueth of Christ they neither had them selues nor ioyned in spirituall communion with such as had the Prelacie and Manisterie nowe pleaded for And not that onely but were also members of that persecuted church in Queene Maries dayes which was separated from the rest of the Lande as from the world and ioyned in couenaunt by voluntarie profession to obey the trueth of Christ and to witnes against the abominations of Antichrist As they also did euen vnto death in the trueth which they sawe though otherwise being but as it were in the twylight of the Gospell they had their wantes and errors Yet who is so blinde or besotted as not to see that their errours may not bee our rules neither can be our warrant but rather that we ought after their example faithfully to stand in and for what so euer trueth God reuealeth vnto vs by his word And that otherwise those holy Martyrs should rise in iudgement against all such as either withhould the trueth in vnrighteousnesse or in any respect refuse to walke therein Finally seeing GOD hath giuen vs his worde to be the light of our feete and rule of our liues and religion What meane these men to lead vs from it to the aberrations of any men whatsoeuer Should not all people enquire at God or would they haue vs goe from the liuing to the dead From God and his worde to men and their errours Doubtlesse this is that whervnto they would bring vs and whereby they mislead their followers as will yet further appeare by that which followeth For what say they next Secondly they tell vs and they wishe it to bee noted as wee also doe That Christes ordinances be of two sortes either written or vnwritten the first necessarie the second arbitrary the first touching doctrine that is touching faith and the inward opinion onely these say they are written the second touching outward orders in the Church and all outward gōuernement and ceremonies These they say are not written but arbitrary at the appointment of the Church and Magistrate Thus they say they hold and practise and thinke no Scripture is against it In answere whereof First we aske what scripture they haue for this Secondly we alleadge against it the scriptures “ 1 Tim. 3.10 15. 5. chap. 6.13.14 Tit. 1.5 c. Act. 1.3 2.40 c. 6. cap 14.23 15. cap. and 19.9 20.7.17.28 Rō 12.6.7.8 Ephe 4 11.12 1 Thes 5.12.13.14 Phil. 1.1.5 Heb. 3.1.2.3 13.17 Iam. 5.14 1 Pet. 5.1.2.3 1 Cor. 4.17 5. cap. 9. cap 11. cap. 12. cap. 14. cap. and 16.1.2 Gal. 6 1.6.2 Thes 3.6.12.14.15 Mat. 18 15.16 17. 28.18.19.20 quoted in the margent wherevnto manie other might be added Thirdlie let it be obserued that them selues here graunt and can not denie but all the outwarde gouernement and ceremonies of their Church are inuented and arbitrary at the pleasure of man and not written in the worde of God Wherevpon it followeth that they are none of Christes and therefore not to be ioyned vnto in the worship of God as afterwards more fully will appeare Fourthlie see howe neare they are driuen that are glad to runne backe into the Papistes tentes where yet they knowe there is no succour Before they pleaded possession time out of minde nowe they tell vs of ordinances vnwritten c. are not these meere
these be most vnnaturall additions and very manie The like doe I affirme of these externall corruptions in the Church Which my sentences you goe not about to refute but onelie with wordes with bare yea and nay and no more Mr Iohnsons I. REASON against the former Assumption with Mr Iacobs Replies to the same Hauing before noted 3. Exceptions out of their doctrine and booke alleadged we nowe proceede to shewe the weakenes of their Assumption aforesaid by these 9. Reasons following REASON I. THat which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather can not make a true Christian 2 Cor. 6.14 15 16. with Ezech. 43.8 and 2. Kings 17.33 34 40 41. Bvt that doth the doctrine and booke alleadged as may be seene by comparing the 35. and 36. Articles with the rest And furthermore it appeareth both by their profession which is to be seene in their booke of Cannons set foorth anno 1571. and in other their Articles Jniunctions Aduertisements c. published at other tymes and by their practize also which is to be seene in their Ministerie Worship and Church gouernement euen to this day Therefore c. H. IACOB his 1. Reply to the 1. Reason THis your first Reason is thus That which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather can not make a true Christian But that doth this Booke Ergo c. I say you must mende your vnproper speache that Christ and Antichrist is there ioyned togeather you meane Christ and some outward ceremonies and orders of Antichrist then so speake and say not Christ and Antichrist simply Which things yet we thinke to be Christes own as we * Pag. 12. 18. 19. shewed in the Second Exception before Therefore this reason is answered as the last Exception before The Swanne is blacke of his bill Ergo the Swan is blacke and my brother hath a wodden legge Therfore my brother is a wodden man So here this booke ioyneth Christ and some orders of Antichrist Therefore it ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather which are most fonde conclusions Furthermore the scriptures alleadged 2 Cor. 6. Ezek 43. 2. Kings 17. are wholy mismatched the ioyning there forbidden is vnto such idolatrie as can not stande by any meanes with Christian faith and breaketh most directlie the First commandment Our transgression your selues do iudge to be but against the Second and such as hath stood and may stand togeather with true faith as in Maister Cranmer c. * Namely the Idolaters in those places spoken of They did not so much as professe the written lawe to be their rule neither for outwarde orders nor their inward doctrines of faith But your selues knowe we professe and practise that namely so as is shewed before in the Seconde “ Pag. 11. 1. 18. Exception Therfore to applie those scriptures in this vnto vs is your great sinne euen against the third Commaundment which is your common custome as all doe see and pitie viz. To take the name of God in vaine by misusing his worde F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 1. Reason HIs answere here is First concerning the Proposition of this reason then concerning the Assumption Concerning the Proposition First he saith Our speach is vnproper that Christ and Antichrist is there amongst them ioyned togeather Secondly he taketh vpō him to expound our words and meaning to be thus Christ and some outward ceremonies and orders of Antichrist To this we answere First that it is meete that we not he expound our owne meaning whiche togeather with the proprietie of the speech will afterwards appeare in our defence of the Assumption against his answere thereto His answere therefore concerning the Assumption is this First That the things among them which we charg to be of Antichrist they thinke to be Christes owne For proofe whereof here ferreth vs to his answere to our Second exception going before whether also we referre the Reader for answere to him againe Secondly forgetting him selfe he graunteth that in deed they be orders of Antichrist yet that they are but as the blacknes of the Swannes bill to the rest of the body Well then by his owne confession they are of Antichrist and therefore not Christes owne as before he saide and laboured to prooue Thus at once both he contradicteth him selfe and ouerthroweth that which he answered * Pag. 1◠before to our Second exception This were sufficient to manifest their deceiptfull and euill dealing But that it may more fullie appeare specially seeing bee would dazell the peoples eyes with these mincing wordes of some outward ceremonies orders of Antichrist comparing them with the blacknes of the swans bill as if they were but a fewe and of small moment Therefore will we reckon vp some of their Antichristian enormities and abhominations for it vere infinite to nomber them all And then let the Reader iudge of his inswere and their estate whether it be not more like the blacke Rauen with a white bill then the white Swanne with a blacke Sorie we are that we should thus trouble the Reader or our selues specially considering that alreadie we haue mencioned diuers of the particulars following But seeing we are constreyned herevnto by their slie and colourable answere in this place therefore can we not but doe it for the clearer manifestation of the trueth better discouering of their deceiptfulnes In which respects we intreate the Reader also to take in good parte and duely to weigh the repetition and recapitulation following Antichristian abominations yet reteyned in England 1 The cōfusion of al sortes of people in the bodye of their Church euen the most polluted and their seede beeing members thereof 2 The offices and callinges of Arch L. Bishops 3 Lord Bishops 4 Suffragans 5 Prelates Chauncellours 6 Deanes 7 Subdeanes 8 Prebendaries 9 Cannons 10 Petty cannons 11 Chaunters 12 Virgerers 13 Pistlers 14 Gospellers 15 Queristers men and boyes 16 Organistes 17 Organ Flowers 18 Arch deacons 19 Subdeacons 20 Deacons or half priests 21 Priestes 22 Parsons 23 Vicars 24 Curates 25 Vagrant Mercinarie Preachers 26 Churchwardens 27 Clerkes and Sexions 28 Chaplaynes 29 Doctors of Diuinitie 30 Bachelours of Diuini 31 Doctors and 32 Proctors in the Prelates courtes 33 Commissaries 34 Officialls 35 Registers 36 Summoners with the rest of that Antichristian and viperous generation 37 Their Ministration of the word Sacramentes gouernment of their church by voriue of the offices aforesaid 38 The titles of Primate Metropolitane Lordes grace Lordship c. ascribed to the Prelates 39 The inferior Prelates swearing obedience to the Metropoliticall seas of Cāturburie York 40 The inferiour Ministers when they enter into the Ministerie promising obedience to the prelats their ordināces and when they are inducted to benefices confirminge it with their oath 41 The Deacons and Priests presentations to a Lorde Bishoppe by an Archdeacon 42 Their receyuing of orders of the Prelates or their Suffraganes 43 Their Pontificall or Booke of consecratinge Bishops and of ordering Priestes Deacons taken
out of the Popes Pōtificall where their abuse of scripture to that ende their Collects Pistles c. may be scone 44 Their making and being made Priestes with blasphemie the Prelates saying to them whom they make Priestes Receiue the Holie Ghoste whose sinnes ye forgiue they are forgiuen c. 45 Their confoundinge of Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall offices and authoritie in Ecclesiasticall persons 46 Their reteyning and vsing in their publike worshippe the Apocrypha Bookes whiche haue in them diuers errours vntruethes blasphemies contradiction to the canonicall scriptures 47 Their stinted prayers and Leitourgie taken out of the Popes Masse booke with the same order of Psalmes Lessons Collectes Pater Nosters Pistles Gospels Versicles Responds c. 48 The Crosse in Baptisme 49 The Hallowed Ponte Questions to the Infants at Baptisme 50 The Godfathers and Godmothers promisinge that the childe doeth beleeue forsake the Deuill and all his workes c. 51 Weomans baptizinge of children which main teyneth that heresie that the children are damned which dye vnbaptised 52 Their howselinge of the sicke and Ministring the communion to one alone 53 The Ministring it not with the wordes of Christes institution but with other taken out of the Popes Portuis 54 Their selling that Sacrament for two pence to all commers 55 The receyuing of it kneeling which maketh it an Idoll and nourisheth that heresie of receyuinge their maker of worshipping it c. 56 Their Ring in Mariadge making it a Sacrament all signe and Mariadge an Ecclesiasticall action thereby nourishinge the Popishe heresie that Matrimonie is a Sacrament 57 Their praying ouer the dead makinge it also a parte of the Ministers duetie and nourishinge the heresie of prayer for the dend 58 Their churching or purifying of Women then also abusing that Scripture The Sunne shall not burne them by day nor the Moone by night 59 Their Gang weeke and prayinge then ouer the corne and grasse 60 Their forbidding of mariage in Gang weeke in Aduent in Lent and on all the Ember dayes which the Apostle calleth a doctrine of Deuils 1 Tim. 4.1 2 3. 61 Their Sainctes Angells and Apostles dayes with their prescript seruice 62 Their fastes and abstayning from fleshe on their Eaues on Frydayes Saturdayes Ember dayes and all Lent through 63 Their dispensations from the Prelates courts of Faculties to eat fleshe at these tymes Which dispensations also haue this wholesome caluse in them sana conscientia that is with a safe conscience plainelie shewing that they make it a matter of conscience This is another doctrine of Deuills noted in the scripture before alleadged 1 Tim. 4. 64 Their Dispensations in like manner to marry in the tymes among thē forbidden which are noted before 65 Lycenses from the same authoritie to marrie in places exempt 66 Dispensations also from thence for Boyes and ignoraunt fooles to haue benefices 67 Dispensations likewise for Nonresidents 68 For hauing Two Three Foure or more benifices euen tor quot that is to saye as manie as a man will haue and can gette 69 Tollerations 70 Patronages of and presentatiō to benefices with buying and selling of aduousons 71 Their institutions into benefices by the Prelates their Inductions Proxes c. 72 Their suspensations absolutions degradations depriuations c. 73 The Prelates Chauncellours and Commissaries courtes hauing power to excommunicate alone to absolue 74 Their penance in a white sheete 75 Their commutation of penance and absoluing one man for another 76 The Prelates confirmation or Bishoping of children to assure thē of Gods fauour by a signe of mans deuising 77 The standing at the Gospell 78 The putting off the cap and making a legge when the worde Iesus is read 79 The ring of peales at burials 80 Beadmen at buriah hyred Mourners in mourning apparell 81 The hanging mourning of churches heerses with black at burials 82 Their absoluinge the dead dying excommunicate before they can haue as they say christia buriall 83 The Idoll Temles 84 The Popish vestiments as Rochet Horned cap Tippet the Surplise in parishe Churches Cope in cathedral churches 85 The visitations of their Lord Bishops and Archdeacans 86 The Prelates Lordlie dominion reuenues and retinew 87 The Priestes maintetenance by Tithes Chrismes offrings c. 88 The othes ex officio in their ecclesiasticall courts making men sweare to accuse them selues 89 The Church Wardens othe to present to the Prelates all the offences faultes and defaults committed in their Parishes against thir Articles and Iniunctions 90 The Prelates rulinge of the Church by the Popes cursed canon lawe 91 Finally their imprisonning banishing such as renounce and witnes against these abominations a foresaid and the rest yet retayned among them Thus being constreyned we haue repeated and reckoned vp diuers of the Antichristian enormities still remayning practised in their church By which the Reader may better see and iudge both of the sleightnes of their answere in this place and of the blacke constitution of their church As also comparing these and the booke by him alleadged togeather it may hence appeare that our speach is proper and fitlie declaring their estate when we saide they ioyne Christ and Antichrist togeather And therfore his answere in this place to be friuolous and of no weight Next he commeth to the proofe of our Proposition which was confirmed by these scriptures 2 Cor. 6.14 15 16. with Ezek. 43.8 2 King 17 33 34 40 41. The Proposition which we proued by these Scriptures was this That which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togither can not make a true Christian. Nowe let euen the aduersaries them selues iudge Whether these Scriptures doe not so euidentlie proue this Proposition as none can denie it but such as are Wilfully blinded and striue against the light of their owne cōsciences But what saith he of these scriptures here alleadged Forsooth That they are wholy mismatched And why so Because the ioyninge there forbidden is vnto such Idolatrie as can not stande by any meanes with Christian faith and breaketh most directlie the First commandement whereas their transgression is but against the Seconde and may stande with true faith as he supposeth in Cranmer c. First this answere of his concerneth our Assumption whereas those scriptures were the profe of the Proposition But to let this passe let vs consider the answere it selfe howe worthy and clerk like it is These scriptures he saith forbid ioyning to such Idolatrie as can not stande with Christian faith and breaketh most directlie the First commaundement 1. Jf this were so what then Doe they not therfore forbid ioyning to Antichristian idolatrie and that false worship which breaketh the second cōmaundement 2 Secondlie he can not denie but as we iudge of their way and estate so it is a transgression against the Second commaundement Nowe Samuell saith Rebellion is as the sinne of witchcraft and transgression is wickednes idolatry 1 Sam. 19. See then what advantage he getteth by his owne answere 3.
papistes religion which make them in their estate to be departers frō the faith and consequentlie false christians and false Churches If there be as he can not denie it then of what weight is his answer to defende the present constitution of these people and assemblies for whom he pleadeth seeing there are diuers other thinges besides these that doe and may cause that they may not be deemed true Christiās or true Churches in that estate Many a Seruetus Sabellius Arius the Anabaptistes c. heretikes heretofore haue and at this day doe reiect these three aforesaid are they therfore in their estate to be accounted true Christians or true Churches So then his manner of reasoning heere for their defence is as if the Adulterers to iustifie their course of life should alleadge thus We are noe 1. Blaspemers 2. no Persecutors 3. No Murtherers as such and such are therefore we departe not from the way of life but our estate and course of life is good and such as may be continued in But the scripture teacheth otherwise sayinge b Iam. 2.10.11 Whosoeuer shall keepe the whole Lawe and yet fayleth in one poincte is guiltie of all For he that sayed Thou shalt not commit adulterie saied also Thou shalt not kill Nowe though thou doest no adultery yet if thou killest thou art a transgressour of the Lawe and contrariwise So that what soeuer sinnes the Adulterer be farre from yet as c Pro. 6.32 Salomon saith Hee that committeth adulterie with a woman fayleth in heart and destroyeth his owne soule The same is the case of all spirituall Adulterers likewise who what so euer sinnes they be farre from yet in the worship of God runne a d Num. 15.39 whoring after their owne inuentions e Pro. 5.20 embracing the bosomes of strange women f Reuel 17.4 drinking of their cup of fornications Thirdly let him shewe vs sufficient warrant frō the scriptures why setting these three aside the other popish Hyerarchie and abominations receyued amongst them can not bee iudged to make them in such estate departers from the faith and therfore false Christians and false Churches whatsoeuer truthes they should hold beside If he cannot as who seeth not that it can not be donne then by this also it appeareth that his answer◠here is of no force for defence of their estate but against it as we haue declared before g Num. 16.12 c. Corah Dathan Abyram and their partakers were farre from the Abominations of the Heathen they helde also al the poinctes of faith that Moses and Aaron held differing onely from them and departing only from the faith in a matter concerning the Priesthood whereof also they h verse the. 3. shewed their reasons why they were so perswaded yet will he not denie we suppose but that they departed from the faith and were in this estate neither to be accounted true Israelits nor their assemblies true Churches with which communion might be kept If he should the scripture it selfe would witnesse against him herein Numb 16.26 Nowe compare case with case and tyme with tyme and the estate of these people and Assemblies of England wil bee found farre more grieuous as we haue already shewed both in the defence of our Second Exception before and in i In the answer to Master Hildersam and in the 9. Reasons concerning not hearing the Ministers of these assembties other Treatises to which yet we haue receiued no answer To conclude this poinct if their Abominations in England were farre fewer then they are yet so longe as they reteyne that poysonfull leauen of their Hyerarchie and worship wee must tell them as the Scripture saith and experience teacheth That “ 2. Kings 4.39.40 a litle poyson bringeth death vnto the whole pot of pottage A * 1. Cor. 5.6 litle leauen leaueneth the whole lump And a “ Eccle. 10.1 few dead flyes cause the oynctment of the Apothecarie to stinke and putrifie Although indeed their abominations are not a few but swarme in aboundance amongst them some whereof wee haue rehearsed before in the defence of our First Reason where the Reader may take a view of them Now in the next place fearing belike that the euidence of the scripture we alleadged could not by these shiftes of his be auoyded but that still the reason deducted from thence stood strong against them as we haue shewed it doeth therefore he would haue vs now passe by them and not apply this scripture to them Nota. or their mother Church of Rome but vnderstand it of Martion the heretike and Tatianus of whom he saith that they absolutelie condemning mariage and certen meates might indeed euen therin wholie fall from the faith somewhat like to Baalam Iudas and those Apostate Israelites lately spoken of namely for hauing their consciences conuicted and seared with an whote iron And thus sayth he are they in no comparison with them of England Well But first if his former answer were of any weight it might be asked why then the followers of Martion and Tatianus might not likewise haue defended them thus said that their departure from the faith was but in some poincts not wholy from all Secondly we answer that if this scripture was verified as he graunteth in Martion and Tatianus for their condemning of mariage and meates then we must needes also thinke it verified in the Romishe whoore and her apostate children whiche are falne into the verie sinnes that are heere mentioned Teh Apostle mentioneth Martion and Tatianus no more then he doeth the whoorish Babilon and the children of her Fornication but comprehendeth heere all such who so euer they be as shall fall into this Apostasie Nowe moreouer if the “ 1. Tim. 4.1 2 3. wordes of this scripture be duely weighed either other scriptures or the estate of the Romish Harlott and her children compared therewith it wil be founde as liuely to describe these as either Martion or any other that euer were in the world First when the Apostle sayeth that this shal be in the latter tymes who seeth not that it doeth most directly poinct at the Romish whoore though we doubt not but Martion also and Tatianus which liued twelue hundreth yeares since or thereabouts may also be comprehended therein Secondly when it is saide they shall departe from the faith thereby signifying that once they held the faith howe plaine is this of the Romish harlot which in the “ Rom. 1.7 Apostles time was the beloued spouse of God and since is falne into Apostacy and become the Mother of whoredomes and abominations of the earth as the * 2. Thes 2.3 and Reu. 17.1 2 3 4 5. scriptures in other places witnesseth Thirdly whē it is said they shall giue heede to spirits of errour and doctrines of Deuils how fitly agreeth this to the Romish Babilon which as the scripture els “ Reu. 18.2 where testifieth is become the habitation of Deuils
light of conscience nature togeather wherewith a liuely sauing faith cannot possibly stand Now the Papists in this do departe from the faith also but that is only in some sorte or in parte because they forbid these things not absolutly but vnto some sometimes They that departe thus from the faith may bee true Christians notwithstanding yea they are certenly if they be no worse in any thing els albeit you deny it here most fondly without all sence To which end you most vnlearnedly and vngodly apply those scriptures Scriptures abused A litle leauen leueneth the lump A few dead flyes make the oyntment to stincke and a little poyson bringeth death Will you haue no tainte of euell in a Christian but it quencheth the life of God in vs needes Is it not possible your selues might hold some such errors and yet remayne true Christians notwithstanding Then if Papists were no worse but in those errors only they might be true Christians notwithstanding But Martion and Tatianus doe wholy departe from the faith not but that they beleued some truthes but in that they “ The same did Corah Da than and Abyram likewise See before in answer to the 2. Exception the a Reply presumptuously quenched the instinct of nature conscience as I haue said Here then it appeareth how wicked a sclaunder it is that you say I runne into the Papistes tents and fight with their weapons doe iump with the Remists annotations on 1. Tim. 4.1 2 3. Iudge now by this that I haue said whether I doe or no. And note that I saye that they be either Apostates or departers from the faith not onely who fall totally as you sclaunder me that I saye but also who fall fundamentally that is eyther the first way or second as I haue afore saide And so doe these grosse Heretikes whom you mention 1 Arius Seruetus Papistes c. 2. Martion Tatianus Iudas Corah Balaam the Apostate Israelites c. Thus then your questions and demaundes about the Papistes and their errors I passe by as more vayne then pertinent Onely note withall if this reason of yours were good it maketh Maister Cranmer Ridley c. to be departers from the faith no true Christians Maister IOHNSONS VIII Reason against the former Assumption with Maister IACOBS Replies to the same REASON VIII IF the Apostle accoumpted them denyers of the faith and worse then infidels and consequently no true Christians who though they held other truthes of the Gospell yet prouide not for their household Then what will he accoumpt of them who though they professe some truthes of the Gospell yet are not true worshippers of God but execute or submit vnto a false ministerie worship and gouernment ecclesiasticall Which to be th' estate of the Ministerie and people of these assemblies appeareth as aforesaid But the first is true 1 Tim. 5.8 Therefore c. H. IACOB his 1. Reply to the 8. Reason THis your Eight Reason is thus much viz. Like as it is for a professor not to prouide for his houshold so is it to hold the Hierarchy c. But that is to deny the faith and to bee worse then an infidel Ergo so are we in England Those very answers to the last Reason doe fully and flatly satisfie this also Either against the Assumption namely that it is not meant simply of denying the faith nor * I meane Fundamentally as in the last Reason before I haue shewed wholy but in this poinct only Or els the propositiō as being meant of such as neglect their families against the light of their consciences and the manifest instinct of nature F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 8. Reason FOr answere of our said Eight Reason he referreth vs to those answers of his to the last Reason which he saith doth fully and flatly ' satisfie this also for the proposition and Assumption But this which he saith we haue in the defence of that Reason declared to be altogeather vntrue Therefore yet we haue receiued no answere either to that Reason or this That thus it standeth we referre the Reader for it vnto that which is said in defence of that Reason aforesaid wishing the Reader moreouer to obserue both there and here in his answer to the Reason following that the power of the truth so preuaileth against them as they cannot but graunt that they departe from and deny the faith in their ministerie worship and gouernement ecclesiasticall as appeareth in their Canons booke of Common prayer Articles Iniunctions persecutions c. All which beeing mentioned vnto them as proofes thereof in these seuerall reasons when now they should defend these particulers if they would maintaine their standing behold they are as mute as a fish therein and not that onely but in their aunswer to the next Reason following graunt vnto vs that in these things we may and ought to separate from them Which is directly to yeeld vs the cause Thus soundly they answer vs and dispute for themselues H. JACOB his 2. Reply to the 8. Reason TO this your Eight Reason and defence thereof I aunswer as before If you take the Apostle to meane such neglecters of their houshold as deny the faith not Fundamentally nor against the instinct of nature but only against conuenient Christian prouidence and no otherwise Then I deny your Assumption If the Apostle meane of such as neglect their families against the light of confcience natures instinct then I deny the Proposition This I say because the Apostle may very well meane both these but in a diuerse measure and proportion of sinne but then this concerneth not vs Euen so as I haue said to your former Reason Note also if this were a true Reason it maketh Maister Cranmer c. denyers of the faith and no true Christians also For maintenance where of you haue here not one poore word at all Touching that you say we cannot deny but graunt that wee departe from and deny the faith in our Ministerie I haue told you how in my answer to your 7. Reason Also see my Replies to your 2. Exception Maister IOHNSONS IX Reason against the former Assumption with Maister IACOBS Replies to the same REASON IX THey which teach othewise and consent not to the wholsome wordes of our Lord Iesus Christ and to the doctrine which is according to godlines are by the rule of the Apostle to be separated from and therefore cannot in that case by the word of God be deemed true Christians 1. Tim. 6.3.4 5. But that so it is with the ministers and people of these assembles in regarde of their ministerie worship and Church constitution appeareth by the Seauentene poincts of false doctrine c. which are already set down and by the proofes before alleadged out of their own cannons Articles Iniunctions c. Therefore the Ministers and people of these assemblies in regard of their ministerie worship and Church constitution are by the rule of the
vrge vpon our Churches further or on my wordes doth slaunder and cauill and malitionsly depraue them and nothing else Secondly note in my explication that I iustifie not this opinion of our stare but I say Thus to beleeue and practize simply destroyeth no mans saluation in Christ which you denying generally and vehemently in your sixt answer You deny directly Maister Cranmer c. to haue held the foundation or to bee saued wherein you openly professe and proclaime that second generall poinct which in the beginning I charged you with That all Churches and Christians here in Kinge Edwards time and namely Maister Cranmer Ridley Latimer Hooper Philpot Saunders Rogers Tayler c. held not Christ their Prophet Priest and King and so consequently they were lims of Antichrist for they bare his marke euen to their deaths and no true Christians Alas to see how malice and preiudice hath blinded you Is there not greater cause for vs to cry say against you O shamelesse mouth ô vnchristian heart which termes you vainely charge vpon me Is this you that white the Toombs of those Martirs and yet in fine condempne them for no true Christians nor their Assemblies for Churches You adde a clause They that professe and practize as doth the Church of England c. If you meane hereby to put a difference betwene those good mens holding this opinion and our Churches nowe Yea betwene your owne lately and ours now speake out what is it Yow can imagine none but this Those good men Maister Cranmer Ridley c. and your selfe of late held these very same errors of the outward Church order which wee doe But they and you did it seemeth of simplicity we malitiously they of ignorance wee of plaine obstinacie and hauing a conuicted and seared conscience whereby they you might be true Christians for all these errors but we now cannot be so If this be your meaning then you graunt vs our Assumption against which all your dispute here is bent You graunt it I say That the whole doctrine as it is by law in England is sufficient to make a perticuler man a true Christian Secondly wee now erre not in these poincts of simplicitie but of wilfulnes and malice Say you so Speake that plaine then Our whole assemblies all and euery of our assemblies of wilfulnes and of a conuicted conscience Are you sure of this Doe you knowe euery mans heart and conscience so well If you doe then you say somwhat indeed But you are then neere as wise as God himselfe to know mens hearts so perfectly whose faces you neuer saw You will say you know diuers whom you dare say are conuicted in coÌ„science That is much also to affirme But if you doe that serueth not your turne vnlesse all be so conuicted Christ knew a great many in the Church of the Iewes yea of the learnedst and chiefest in authoritie that were conuicted in conscience that he was the Christ who blaspheamed in denying him And yet the Assemblies then where not conuicted they still were true Churches Wherefore in this saying if you say to the purpose you then affirme the Third generall poinct that I noted in you at the beginning of this my last Reply That euery soule in England is conuicted in conscience But here I maruell that you say Maister Hus and others of the holy Martirs did heare and say Masse till their dying day Also that others did acknowledge the Popes supremacie I aske you doe you meane that they held and vsed the Popish Masse according to all the abominations that are in it If you thinke so then surely neither Hus nor any of the rest were holy Martirs For therin are founde errors plainely fundamental which of them selues abolish from Christ They are not to be compared to our publike errours now in England The like I say of the Popes supremacy If you thinke any of the Martirs acknowledged it in the large and ample meaning therof as the Popish Doctors doe set it down Then verily neither were they any Martirs The booke of Acts and Monuments whither you send vs affirmeth not that they held these errours in the largest and grossest sort It may be therefore they held manie and greuious errors of ignorance both in the Popish Masse and in the supremacy which might neuerthelesse stand with Christ crucifyed And so they might be were holy Martirs But I affirme that according to the damnable grossenes of the very Papists they neither did nor could hold them Therefore in these instances you say nothing to vs nor against the question in hand Further you said before in the beginning of your desence of this Exception * Pag. 13. That Master Cranmer Ridley Latimer and the rest of the Martirs then neither had them selues nor ioyned in spirituall communion with such as had the Prelacy and Ministery now pleaded for Now I see you make no conscience of vntruthes yea you are bold to auouch open and known falsehoods Did not Maister Cranmer hold himselfe for Archbishop still and that hee was by the Pope vniustly and vnsufficiently deposed and by Queene Mary forcibly restreyned from it Did he euer repent of holding that Office till his death Also did not Ridley stand vpon his right to the Bishoprick of London though ready to die Latimer though he renounced his Bishoprick yet he kept his Ministerie and neuer repented him of it Philpot neuer misliked hâ—s Arch-deaconry Yea when he refused bloudy Bonner Yer he appealed to his ordinary the Bishop of Winchester The like minde is to be seene in Bishop Farrar And generally whosoeuer were Ministers then of the Prelates ordination they neuer renounced it though they died Martirs Thus appeareth your bould vntruth in this behalfe Further in your Sixt answer Pag. 16. First you will not see what I meane in saying That these outward orders bee not of the foundation simply I meant not at all of the very * 1 Cor. 15.2 3 4. Rom. 4.25 1. Cor. 3.10 11 12 13 14. foundation neither are they Secondly you aske if our outward orders vnder Christ be not fundamentall aswell as the Iewes vnder the Law I answer neither were the Iewes outward orders of the very foundation without which they could not be saued Thirdly you aske how Corah c. differing from Moses and Aron only about the Priesthood and Ministerie were separated from and damned I answer not that the matter was fundamentall but the Manner was rebellious with consciences a thousand times conuicted and so donne with a high hand against God him selfe But now this considered How vainely doe you charge mee in your entrance into this Excep pa. 13. That I others of my minde goe about to iustifie these matters of order in controuersy by Cranmer Ridlies and Latimers example and their Congregations then For shame doe you not see the coÌ„trary that I call them errors I onely iustifie by their exaÌ„ple that these corruptions abolish vs not from Christ as