taught his holy Prophets and seruants to vtter in their prayers and that this is the reason why there be so many prayers prescribed in the booke of the Psalmes and in other bookes of the Scriptures that whatsoeuer thing befall a man wherein he is in the feruent affection of his heart to pray vnto the Lord if he haue in memorie the spéeches which holy men in such distresse vttered it is a great help vnto him if not he may help his memory with a booke To this you reply that touching the vse of sentences and phrases of scripture you could easily consent but that ye perceiue I would not agrée with ye in certaine points the first that this is required only at the hands of Gods children with promise to be heard and accepted I wonder with what eyes ye can sée that I would not agrée with ye in this thing I put ye out of doubt I hold assuredly that none haue promise to be heard and accepted but Gods children though they vse neuer so much the sentences of Scripture in their prayers The first hinderance of your consent is remoued The second is that ye sée I would not agrée with ye that the same spirit doth now teach Gods childrē to pray which taught the Prophets holy men in other ages I professe vnto ye that I hold it a wicked opinion to deny that the same spirit doth nowe teach Gods children to pray which taught the Prophets c. and so the second let is remoued In déede héere you and I dissent that I hold that as our faith is wrought by the word of God so is it nourished and quickned vnto prayer and euery good work by the same and that the holy Ghost hath not only taught matters by the Prophets Apostles but also spéeches and phrases sit for to vtter y e same And you hold that because the same spirit now teacheth to pray which taught the Prophets Apostles that either we may not or we néede not vse their spéeches The third stop remaineth which is that I take it God should be delighted with words and sentences You greatly mistake it and do but cauill for I shewed my minde not that God would regard words sentences but we should be holpen and comforted by them Thus the third and last hinderance is also remoued and now you may consent that in our prayers we may vse the prescript formes sentences and phrases of the word of God To my next wordes where I sayd the reason why there be so many prayers prescribed in the booke of the Psalmes is that whatsoeuer distresse befall a man c. you reply yée thinke I halt greatly that our question being about Idolatrous leiturgies I séeke to shrowd my selfe vnder the vse of Canonicall scripture Indéed this would be a learned question whether idolatrous leiturgies be idolatrie or whether it be not idolatry to pray an idolatrous praier who would looke for so childish a shift you know our question is about the reading of a praier when one prayeth And if it be not idolatry to vse the praiers of the scriptures euen in their prescript forme then all read praier offred to God as a sacrifice is not idolatrie I reason thus it is not idolatry to pray the Lords praier or any other prescript forme deliuered in the Canonicall scriptures therefore it is no idolatry to vse a prescript forme of praier which is framed after the rules of true praier as to aske of God alone through the onely mediation of his sonne and for no matters but such as he hath promised to giue Yée say it is not true doctrine that those Psalmes and Scriptures were written that we should vse in our praiers the words there set downe Your reason is because there be other vses I doo confesse there be other vses but that might yet be a speciall reason why there be so many praiers prescribed Then yée say yée do not disalow the speaking according to the word of God but that we might not affect so much the phrases of spéech as the true féeling of our wants He that hath not the féeling of his wants in praier but affecteth phrases is but an hypocrite But ye are in a vaine opinion if ye thinke the vse of the phrases and sentences of scripture being fitly applied is any hinderance either to the féeling or opening our wants because where skill or memorie faileth I would haue them vse the helpe of a booke I am you feare papistically affected vnto words and sentences I haue already shewed that this is not to affect the words and sentences but the instruction the support and quickning which our faith receiueth by those words sentences And this doctrine is not as you charge it disagréeing from the counsell of the Holy ghost which willeth vs to continue in praier to striue in praier nor contrarie to Dauid which said O my soule c nor to Paul who teacheth that the spirit helpeth our infirmities and maketh request for vs. But your doctrine which saith we must continue in prayer therfore we may not vse such helps the spirit dooth helpe our infirmities and maketh request for vs therefore we may not be holpen by the praiers or by the words of the holy scripture is phantasticall for the Holy ghost doth helpe our infirmities and teach vs to pray by the written word You thinke it were hypocriticall worshipping of God to take helpe by a booke when we know not what to aske If a man know not what to aske he shall be able to vnderstand little by the booke But a man may know what he should aske and yet not so well able to expresse the same without helpe both for memory and feruencie Stinted praiers yée say are as Cushions for idle papists hypocrites and Atheists I graunt that such people doo abuse all the best things shall the godly therefore be debarred from the vse I doo teach that whether a man of himselfe pray without a booke or vpon a booke if he pray not in spirit with faith he dooth but offer the sacrifice of fooles his praier is abhominable Therfore it is but your lauish spéech when ye say I giue libertie to the lame sacrifices on the contrary if a man pray in faith vpon a booke or without a booke it is true praier and such as God heareth God will haue no strange fire put vpon his Altar say you I graunt it is so but praiers framed by the rules of scripture and offered vp in faith are not strange fire Yée wish all men to take héed of this craftie doctrine and I wish all men not to be to hastie in receiuing new phantasticall opinions Your answer vnto those two Psalmes which I noted were giuen as a prescript forme of praier to be vsed of the Church and the forme of blessing prescribed to the Préests to blesse the people withall Num. 6 is more then friuolous For touching the first which is 92 appointed for the
ouercome Then yée turne your selues to those poore soules as yée terme thē whom we like miserable Physicians séeke to cure and your Counsell you giue them I doo allow it for it is the same in effect if you could sée that I gaue them before I would to God the people did follow it we should not then haue one Brownist The Deuill counterfaiting Christs voice in hereticall schismatikes should not be able to allure and call away the shéepe from their shéepeheards Now remaineth the last point onely that I shew some reason to prooue our Ministery to be of Christ The ministery of the Gospell which bringeth the worde of faith and reconciliation betwéene God and the worlde is the true ministerie of Christ for the Deuil and Antichrist ordeine no such ministerie Nowe the ministerie of the Church of England doth bring no word nor doctrine but the sacred scriptures It preacheth faith in God through Christ and the doctrine of repentance deliuering the holy sacraments as seales to confirme the same Let all the schismatikes in the world barke against it and say we haue no word nor Sacraments yet this is the holy word God so loued the world that hee gaue his onely begotten sonne that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting It may be sayde that many ministers in England doo not nor cannot preach the Gospell how then is their ministery the ministery of reconciliation Héere note that as we must distinguish betwéene the ministery and the man himselfe which is the minister for the man may be of the Deuill and yet his ministery of God so must we also distinguish betwéene the function it selfe and the execution of the same For when one is called to bee a minister of the Gospell which is able and dooth not preach the defect is not in the function but in his negligence about the execution Likewise when the office or function is layd vpō him that cannot preach the function it selfe is entyre the defect is in the execution thereof through his disabilitie I say therfore that the Ministerie of England is the Ministerie of the Gospell though some doo not and some cannot Preach Then further such as haue the calling and ordination of the Church haue the Ministerie of Christ for it is giuen to the Church to haue power to call and ordeine Ministers Now if the Church doo falt and breake either by error or negligence in some rules which are to be obserued about this calling and ordinatiō yet the power is not disanulled nor the function destroyed vnlesse we will hold that where there is transgression either of ignorance or otherwise the whole is ouerthrowne and so conclude that there is no praier nor worship of God nor any true seruice doone vnto him vnder heauen because all is with errors and faults In England the Ministers haue their calling and ordination by the Church of God For that people which hath forsaken heresies and false worship and imbraced the doctrine of the Gospell hath in it the true Church which hath the power And the Ministers intrude not themselues but haue the power giuen them by the hands of the Bishops who doo it not by their owne authoritie nor by any authoritie from Antichrist but as committed to their trust by publike authoritie Moreouer that is the Ministerie of God which is to bring men to the faith and to build vp the body of Christ The Ministerie of England is to none other end For the whole drift the whole scope and burthen laid vpon them is to féede with wholsome doctrine and to guide in the waye of godlinesse the shéepe of Christ walking before them in godlye conuersation The Brownist will not take himselfe héere conuinced but will say these causes are but pretended and are not in truth I will therefore now reason from the effect together with that which is properly adioyned to the Ministerie of Christ That Ministerie with the execution whereof there is ioyned the effectuall grace power blessing and operation of the Holy-ghost to the true conuersion of mens soules is not a Ministerie of the Deuill nor of Antichtist nor commeth not in the life and power of the beast but is indeed the true Ministerie of Christ I thinke the Brownists will not be so beastly as to affyrme that the grace and operation of the holy Ghost to the conuersion of mens soules is ioyned to that and worketh by that which is of the Deuill and commeth in the life and power of Antichrist Then it remayneth only to shewe that there hath béene and is this grace and worke in the execution of our function If the Brownists will deny that euer they felt that maiestie and power in the preaching which can not be in the words of man but only in that word which is sharper then any two edged sword and pierceth so déepe as to be a discerner of the thoughts and secret intents Or if they will denie that euer they haue béene driuen by it vnto hatred sorrowe and remorse for sinne and raysed vp with comfort and hope of forgiuenesse and with the promises of eternall glorie Yet vnto many other which by it are conuerted vnto the Lord in déede which vnto feare and trembling doo féele the power and swéetnesse of the liuely word it may be sayd as S. Paule speaketh to the Corinths for when his aduersaries did denie him to be an Apostle the Corinths by his Ministerie were begotten in Christ wherevpon he sayth If I be not an Apostle vnto others yet am I vnto you for you are the seale of mine Apostleship in the Lord 1. Cor. 9. ver 2. Euen so if the Ministery of Englād be not the Ministery of Christ vnto others yet you can not doubt of it your faith your repentance your ioy in the Lord are the seale of it You can not but sée and knowe that they be vile blasphemous wretches which beare ye in hand that it is not the word of God nor the grace of his spirit which worketh in ye but the power of the Deuill and the spirit of Antichrist You knowe it is the direct way which the Deuill taketh by his ministers to bring in flat Atheisme to disgrace and throwe downe the credite of the ministerie But doth it not make against the Ministerie of England that many of the Brownists confesse they haue béene greatly moued at sometimes with the power of the preaching and at the administration of the Sacraments for may it not bée sayd héerevpon that it is but a deceyuable shewe of grace and power for if it had béene in truth it would haue continued I answer it is sufficient to proue the Ministerie and that the power of the holy Ghost goeth with it when men haue bin so moued although they do not continue séeing the reprobate do féele the power and taste the swéetnes of the word for a time Hebr. 6. He that hath therefore felt the power of God in his soule by the
generally stande in England and come after vnto those former articles which conteine your association wherein ye conioyne your selues and enter into couenant with God as ye say to set vp all the ordinances of Christ for I take this to bee the fittest order Your syxt article which now must be first being expressed in these words And now that our forsaking and vtter abandoning these disordered assemblies as they generally stand in England may not seeme strange or offensiue to anye man that will iudge or be iudged by the word of God we alledge and affirme them heinouslie faultie and wilfullie obstinate in these foure principall transgressions To this I answered That Elias did sée outward idolatrie practised and saw none which did mislike and therefore complained of all It was an error but whereas Gods word is imbraced and multitudes abhorre Idolatrie and labour with sorrowfull teares to bee purged from their sinnes it is an intollerable pride and presumption of men to set themselues in Gods iudgement seat and to condemne all of wilfull obstinacie Let it be shewed where euer any led by Gods spirit haue dealt in this sort and especially in charging them most falslie as shall appeare The Brownists HEre you verye vehemently charge vs with vntollerable pride presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgment seate to be voide of Gods spirite to charge and condemne you most falsely as you say shall appeare How iustly you charge vs with these crimes or discharge your selfe and your assemblies of these present transgessions vpon the scanne of your answeres shall appeare c. G. G. All such as take vpon them to iudge and condemne whole assemblies that professe the Gospell and that with slanderous accusations as you do may right well be charged with intollerable pride presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgement seate séeing the Scriptures do cleerely warrant it For he that iudgeth one man to be no true Christian which holdeth the place of a brother and laboureth to please God professing the faith soundly in all fundamentall points either for some errors in iudgement or frailties committed in life proudlye aduanceth himselfe into Gods office who alone searcheth the heart and trieth the raines of the children of men What shall we say then of those which condemne whole multitudes amongst whom there be many vnspotted with grose errors and offenses But the ground of your dooing is from hence that such as commit principall transgressions and be wilfullye obstinate in the same the word of God dooth condemne them And then yée say that the assemblies in England be heinously faulty and wilfully obstinate in foure principall transgressions Ye boldly alledge and affirme but ye make proofe neither of the transgressions nor of the wilfull obstinacie Touching the transgressions what meane ye by principall If yée vnderstand great faults and grosse errors and holde withall that there is no faith nor regeneration among those which erre grosely commit great faults ye maintaine heresie which is conuinced by infinit places and examples of the Scriptures The best that euer were did know but in part 1. Cor. 13. The godliest were regenerate but in part Rom. 7. Of the strongest it was said who can tell his errors Psal 19. and in manye things we sinne all Iam. 3. If Noah Abraham Lot Dauid Solomon Samson and other holy men greatly replenished with the holy Ghost and with faithe did sometime fall into great sinnes howe many will be the errors the diuisions the frailties and offenses among the multitude in the church where with the stronger and such as haue the greater knowledge and godlinesse there are heaped vp together multitudes of weake and such as be carnall and but babes in Christ besides hipocrites and countersait brethren If by principall transgressions ye meane onely such as be fundamentall then ye doo most falsely accuse the Church of England which holdeth not any heresie or blasphemie against any one ground or principle of the holy Christian faith Yée must then either mainteine this heresie which is that where the true faith is there can breake foorth no great faults errors and abuses or this absurd manner of spéech which afterward yée vse that all errors and deformities in religion be heresies blasphemies and abhominations or els confesse that with intollerable pride presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgement seate yée haue taken vpon yée to iudge and condemne whole assemblies which professe the faith of Christ sincerely in all fundamentall points among whom there be many particular persons which study earnestly to please God mourning for their owne sinnes and are like iust Lot 2. Pet. ◠vexed and tormented to behold the wickednesse of others And now touching wilfull obstinacie how will yée prooue that to be in all the assemblies and in all members of the assemblies of England If ye say there be apparant transgressions in which they continue and therefore they be wilfully obstinate and so to be vtterly abandoned I answer that your conclusion doth not follow because the continuance in all sorts of errors and offenses in such as professe the faith doth not warrant men vtterly to cast them out as Heathen but where after admonition and conuiction the censure of the Church is despised The rule of discipline giuen by our Sauiour Christ maketh this verye cléere If thy brother sinne against thée tell him of it betwéene him and thée alone If he heare thée thou hast wunne thy brother if he heare thée not take one or two with thee that by the mouth of two or thrée witnesses euery word may be confirmed If he heare not them tell it to the Church if he heare not the Church let him be as an Heathen or as a Publican Math. 18. We sée that priuate members may not vtterly abandon and cast foorth any one brother that is one which professeth the true faith and for his profession hath the place and dignitie of a Christian nor iudge him so wilfully obstinate that he must be accounted as an Heathen vntill the Church haue so iudged and cast him foorth The same orderly course and rule of discipline is to be obserued in admonishing accusing conuincing condemning and vtter abandoning any particuler assembly which hath the dignity of a Christian church and doth offend so gréeuously and shew such obstinacie that it deserueth so heauy a censure In a particular Church there be errors and sinnes I will not saye in many but in all in as much as euery one hath his blindnesse and corruption erreth and sinneth continuallye one waye or other From hence it commeth that of necessitie there be alwaies in the Church diuersities of opinions discord diuision and dissention with many corruptions and abuses For if it be most manifest that the learnedest and godliest that liueth doth carrie with him his errors defects and corruptions what shal we looke for where the multitude is of learned vnlearned strong and weake altogether how innumerable will the frailties and corruptions now among all be
Brownists of necessitie if your spéeches be weighed séeing all Churches haue and doo things which you affirme to be most detestable idolatry but let the matter come into question to be debated among the Churches and you will be found Anabaptists for imagining such a Christian libertie and fréedome in the Church that nothing is to be receyued which is imposed by commaundement Then ye say that it breaketh our libertie S. Paul proueth most plainely to the Galathians and Colossians I pray ye then that we may sée such plaine proofe which as yet none but your selues can espy note the sentences that will prooue the matter You take it there is no warrant to set foorth any prescript forme of prayer because Christ hath prescribed a forme Ye thinke I might more safely reason thus Christ hath prescribed a forme of prayer therefore neyther Pope Byshop or Prelate ought to impose any other vpon Gods children vntill they can shewe some warrant from Gods word so to do I am fully of your minde that none ought to impose any other forme vntill they can shewe warrant from Gods word But nowe marke how the Argument will followe Moyses the Prophets and our Lord Iesus gaue prescript formes of prayer and praysing God to be vsed by the Church therefore the reading of a prescript forme of prayer when one prayeth or offreth vp the sacrifice of prayse to God doth not change the worke of the Spirit into an idoll nor is not a breaking Christian libertie nor idolatrie for the holie Scripture is farre from appointing any idolatrous thing Then I reason further that if the Prophets and our Sauiour gaue prescript formes to be vsed the Church may take order to sée them vsed And from hence it doth followe that the Church may impose prescript forme of godlie prayers which are framed aright If any thinke this a strange consequence let them consider that the Lords prayer in generall conteyneth in it matter touching the substance and summe of all prayers which haue béene made or are to be made aright The Psalmes and other prayers in the Scriptures doo expresse particulars with sundrie sentences and phrases most fitte to expresse the same Nowe the Church hath power and authoritie not onely to expound these prayers but also to applye them vnto euerie seuerall vse and necessitye This I adde withall that the Church hath no authoritye to bring in any one thing in prayer which is not conteyned in those prayers of Gods word but when the prayers be composed and framed of nothing but the doctrine of the Scriptures and after the rules of true prayer nothing is brought in which God hath not commaunded Lay aside therefore all your shiftes touching Apocrypha mens writings and inequalitie with Canonicall Scriptures and bring your Arguments against the prescript forme and the reading to prooue that they make a prayer holie in it selfe to become abhominable and contrarie vnto spirituall prayer That yee say our Sauiour neuer vsed the words of the Lords prayer when he prayed neyther commaunded his Disciples to say ouer these words neyther doo we reade that the Apostles did euer vse or enforced others to vse certayne words c. ye speake vntruly for the Disciples desired him to teach them to pray as Iohn taught his disciples to pray and he commaundeth when yée pray say thus Our Father which art in heauen hallowed be thy name c. Luke 11. and S. Mathew an Apostle with S. Luke the Euangelist hath deliuered the same to the whole Church if we reade not any where that they did vse the Lords prayer or commaunded others to vse it Will ye reason thus we do not reade that the Apostles or the Church in their time did baptize Infants therefore Infants were not baptized or will ye reason thus we neuer read that the Apostles did pray eyther before or after they preached therefore they did not your argument is the very same with these two former yet from hence ye will néeds conclude y t we will impose vpon whole Churches certaine words euen our own words stinting the spirit of God I haue alreadie shewed that the Church hath not authoritie to bring any forme of prayer into the assemblies but such as is agréeable to the rules appointed for prayer by the word of God And where ye call it a stinting of the Spirit I aunswere that the Spirit of God is not stinted but some men are furthered by prescript formes their infirmities requiring such an eye as I haue shewed before Argum. 4. Because true prayer must be of faith vttered with heart and liuely voyce it is presumptuous ignorance to bring a booke to speake for vs c. Argum. 5. To worship the true God after an other manner then he hath taught is Idolatrie But he hath commaunded vs to come vnto him heauie laden with contrite hearts c. How dare we then bring a dead letter vnto God to stand reading of the same in stead of faithfull petitions quenching the spirit Argum. 6. We must striue in prayer with continuance c. therefore not vpon a booke These thrée I ioyned together as hauing no waight Ye say I answere by playne contradiction without Scripture or proofe In déede you quote Scripture to prooue those things which are not doubted of as that true prayer must be of faith vttered with hart that to worship God after an other manner then he hath taught is idolatrie that we must striue in prayer with continuance But what scripture do ye bring to prooue that it is presumptuous ignorance to vse the help of a booke that those which reade vpon a booke come not with faith and contrite hearts c. but stand reading a dead letter which quencheth the Spirit and that a booke is no helpe for continuance in prayer what Scripture I say bring yee to prooue any of these is not my bare denyall as good as your bare affirmation and in this farre better that I haue before proued the vse of reading by y e word of God Dauid say you would prayse the Lord with hart and doyce therefore not vpon a booke S. Paule would pray with the spirit and with vnderstanding therefore not vpon a booke Dauid and Paule had not so much néed of the booke as other men But whē they will other to sing prayses to God as in Psalmes Himnes and spirituall songs did they not send them to the booke or to the prescript formes wherein others might praise God together with them although they binde not men alwaies to the booke Then yée adde a reason why praier read cannot be true praier which is that in reading we fetch the matter from the booke which mooueth the heart In true praier we fetch the matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake as I beléeued and therefore I spake This is a most ridiculous vanitie for tell me this when we bring foorth in true praier matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake