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adver_v parm._n and_o most_o of_o all_o that_o great_a doctor_n s._n augustine_n 7._o augustine_n psal_n 2._o part_n don._n &_o ep_n 165._o &_o the_o util_a credend_a cap._n 7._o in_o several_a place_n and_o particular_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr utilitate_fw-la credenai_fw-la where_o write_n to_o his_o friend_n honoratus_n who_o he_o labour_v to_o draw_v from_o the_o manichaean_n heresy_n and_o put_v case_n that_o he_o do_v doubt_v what_o religion_n to_o follow_v he_o say_v without_o doubt_n he_o be_v to_o begin_v his_o enquiry_n from_o the_o catholic_a church_n proculdubio_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la catholica_fw-la sumendum_fw-la exordium_n for_o say_v he_o whereas_o there_o be_v among_o christian_n many_o heresy_n all_o which_o desire_v to_o seem_v catholic_n and_o call_v other_o haeretique_n there_o be_v one_o church_n as_o all_o grant_n if_o you_o regard_v the_o whole_a world_n refertior_fw-la multitudine_fw-la ut_fw-la autem_fw-la qui_fw-la noverunt_fw-la affirmant_fw-la 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and_o therefore_o all_o your_o labour_n be_v lose_v when_o by_o similitude_n you_o labour_v to_o prove_v that_o we_o be_v not_o to_o put_v you_o to_o the_o proof_n of_o our_o error_n by_o name_v the_o author_n time_n and_o place_n for_o upon_o these_o circumstance_n depend_v the_o knowledge_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o disease_n or_o no_o which_o be_v our_o question_n neither_o be_v that_o authority_n of_o s._n aug._n to_o your_o purpose_n for_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o man_n fall_v into_o a_o pit_n of_o who_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o he_o be_v fall_v into_o it_o and_o though_o you_o will_v have_v it_o so_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v fall_v into_o a_o error_n as_o it_o be_v into_o a_o pit_n we_o say_v otherwise_o and_o of_o this_o be_v the_o question_n and_o this_o we_o will_v have_v you_o prove_v by_o assingn_v the_o author_n time_n &_o place_n of_o this_o change_n for_o till_o you_o can_v show_v that_o we_o say_v according_a to_o s._n aug._n rule_n that_o whatsoever_o the_o 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be_v the_o true_a explication_n of_o this_o parable_n not_o according_a to_o my_o private_a sense_n but_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o holy_a father_n and_o our_o bless_a saviour_n himself_o who_o voutsafe_v to_o explicate_v this_o parable_n unto_o we_o wherein_o as_o you_o see_v the_o goodman_n seruamt_n mark_v the_o grow_a of_o the_o cockle_n so_o must_v you_o tell_v we_o what_o pastor_n or_o doctor_n do_v ever_o note_v any_o such_o thing_n in_o any_o point_n of_o our_o doctrine_n but_o here_o sir_n humphrey_n what_o be_v to_o be_v think_v of_o you_o that_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o interpret_v scripture_n at_o your_o own_o pleasure_n and_o for_o your_o own_o end_n even_o then_o where_o our_o b._n saviour_n himself_o do_v explicate_v his_o own_o parable_n and_o mean_v thereof_o what_o i_o say_v may_v man_n think_v by_o this_o that_o you_o will_v do_v else_o where_o &_o so_o your_o chief_a gap_n or_o evasion_n for_o not_o assign_v the_o person_n time_n &_o place_n when_o 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monastery_n etc._n etc._n you_o prove_v out_o of_o one_o joannes_n ferus_fw-la a_o friar_n a_o man_n much_o in_o your_o book_n and_o the_o book_n of_o all_o your_o minister_n but_o not_o in_o any_o of_o we_o but_o only_o the_o roman_a index_n of_o forbid_v book_n and_o therefore_o of_o no_o authority_n or_o account_n with_o us._n for_o the_o rest_n of_o these_o point_n we_o have_v nothing_o but_o your_o bare_a word_n &_o surmise_n which_o be_v but_o a_o bare_a proof_n &_o not_o worth_a the_o answer_n 9_o after_o this_o the_o knight_n think_v to_o come_v upon_o we_o another_o way_n say_v that_o our_o own_o author_n who_o have_v seek_v the_o time_n and_o beginner_n of_o our_o error_n as_o he_o be_v please_v to_o call_v they_o confess_v a_o alteration_n though_o they_o do_v not_o find_v when_o it_o begin_v for_o restraint_n of_o priest_n marriage_n he_o say_v that_o marius_n can_v find_v when_o it_o come_v in_o yet_o after_o he_o bring_v polidore_n virgil_n say_v that_o priest_n 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polydore_n virgil_n it_o be_v true_a he_o say_v as_o the_o knight_n tell_v we_o and_o eveâ—_o as_o much_o more_o beside_o as_o any_o haeretique_n can_v say_v of_o that_o matter_n but_o it_o boot_v not_o that_o work_n of_o his_o de_fw-la rerum_fw-la inurn_v â—oâ—â—â—â—_n be_v a_o forbid_a book_n 19_o conc._n nic._n can_v 3._o carthag_a 2._o can_n 2._o v._o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr cler_n cap._n 19_o and_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o say_v most_o evident_o false_a as_o appear_v by_o infinite_a testimony_n but_o particular_o by_o a_o canon_n of_o that_o great_a nicene_n council_n 800._o year_n before_o gregory_n the_o 7._o his_o tyme._n and_o the_o 2._o council_n of_o carthage_n which_o testify_v it_o as_o a_o thing_n teach_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o observe_v by_o antiquity_n the_o knight_n may_v find_v more_o in_o bellarmine_n for_o proof_n of_o this_o point_n here_o i_o only_o ask_v how_o he_o make_v his_o author_n hang_v together_o marius_n can_v find_v the_o beginning_n polydore_n find_v it_o and_o yet_o both_o for_o the_o knight_n purpose_n forsooth_o but_o for_o marius_n his_o authority_n it_o be_v nothing_o against_o we_o but_o for_o us._n for_o it_o follow_v by_o s._n augustine_n rule_n that_o because_o it_o be_v practise_v and_o teach_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n with_o out_o be_v know_v when_o it_o begin_v that_o therefore_o it_o be_v a_o apostolical_a tradition_n 10._o another_o error_n as_o he_o say_v be_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n wherein_o it_o be_v to_o be_v wonder_v say_v erasmus_n as_o the_o knight_n cit_v he_o how_o the_o church_n be_v alter_v but_o erasmus_n be_v no_o author_n for_o we_o to_o answer_n he_o be_v brand_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n neither_o need_v i_o say_v more_o of_o the_o matter_n itself_o in_o this_o place_n a_o three_o error_n of_o we_o as_o he_o pretend_v be_v communion_n in_o one_o kind_n for_o which_o he_o cit_v val._n twice_o once_o say_v it_o be_v not_o know_v when_o it_o first_o get_v foot_v in_o the_o church_n another_o time_n that_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n begin_v to_o be_v general_o receive_v but_o a_o little_a before_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n which_o i_o see_v not_o to_o what_o purpose_n they_o be_v if_o they_o be_v right_o cite_v as_o the_o former_a be_v not_o for_o val._n have_v thus_o much_o when_o that_o custom_n begin_v in_o some_o church_n 16._o val._n the_o leg_n usu_fw-la euch._n cap._n 16._o it_o appear_v not_o but_o that_o there_o have_v be_v some_o use_n of_o one_o kind_n ever_o from_o the_o beginning_n i_o show_v before_o so_o valencia_n what_o do_v this_o make_v for_o the_o knight_n nay_o do_v it_o not_o make_v against_o he_o why_o else_o shall_v he_o corrupt_v and_o mangle_v it_o do_v not_o valencia_n say_v he_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o this_o kind_n of_o communion_n be_v somewhat_o use_v from_o the_o beginning_n and_o that_o which_o he_o say_v of_o the_o not_o appear_v when_o it_o begin_v be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n but_o of_o some_o particular_a church_n beside_o for_o a_o final_a answer_n i_o say_v it_o be_v no_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n but_o practice_n the_o doctrine_n have_v ever_o be_v and_o be_v still_o the_o same_o of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n as_o the_o church_n shall_v ordain_v though_o upon_o good_a reason_n the_o practice_n have_v change_v according_a to_o the_o diversity_n and_o necessity_n of_o tyme._n with_o all_o therefore_o that_o ever_o he_o can_v do_v he_o can_v not_o refute_v that_o argument_n which_o we_o make_v against_o he_o and_o he_o that_o our_o doctrine_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tax_v of_o error_n so_o long_o as_o they_o can_v show_v when_o where_o and_o by_o who_o it_o begin_v as_o we_o can_v and_o do_v every_o day_n of_o
gentile_n do_v do_v not_o this_o answer_n you_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v you_o not_o here_o find_v a_o difference_n between_o that_o worship_n and_o we_o between_o idolatry_n and_o religion_n between_o their_o adore_v the_o creature_n of_o wood_n and_o colour_n in_o place_n of_o the_o creator_n and_o our_o adore_v the_o creator_n represent_v by_o the_o creature_n between_o their_o adoration_n of_o idolatrous_a damn_a philosopher_n and_o our_o worship_n of_o the_o bless_a saint_n and_o servant_n of_o god_n live_v with_o he_o in_o glory_n this_o be_v too_o too_o gross_a for_o such_o a_o subtle_a knight_n as_o you_o be_v now_o for_o proof_n of_o your_o doctrine_n by_o succession_n from_o the_o 2._o commandment_n it_o be_v ridiculous_a to_o call_v it_o succession_n though_o you_o take_v the_o place_n of_o scripture_n in_o the_o true_a sense_n as_o you_o do_v not_o for_o how_o do_v your_o doctrine_n succeed_v the_o commandment_n a_o man_n may_v prove_v his_o doctrine_n out_o of_o scripture_n but_o not_o derive_v the_o succession_n thereof_o out_o of_o that_o proof_n for_o this_o commandment_n it_o be_v neither_o the_o second_o but_o a_o explication_n of_o the_o first_o nor_o be_v it_o true_o translate_v for_o there_o be_v not_o the_o word_n image_n in_o that_o place_n of_o scripture_n 9_o a_o five_o point_n be_v communion_n in_o one_o kind_n which_o he_o say_v we_o have_v from_o the_o manichee_n and_o from_o the_o nazarite_n who_o it_o be_v not_o like_a as_o bellarmine_n say_v do_v drink_v of_o the_o chalice_n against_o their_o vow_n nor_o yet_o like_a that_o they_o do_v whole_o abstain_v from_o the_o communion_n out_o of_o which_o he_o gather_v that_o they_o do_v communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n only_o and_o here_o say_v the_o knight_n be_v their_o best_a succession_n from_o haeretique_n and_o a_o uncertain_a example_n of_o the_o nazarite_n whereas_o his_o doctrine_n he_o say_v be_v teach_v by_o christ_n himself_o drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o this_o be_v the_o knight_n discourse_n but_o to_o answer_v he_o i_o say_v that_o before_o ever_o there_o be_v manichee_n in_o the_o world_n the_o b._n sacrament_n be_v administer_v sometime_o in_o one_o kind_n sometime_o in_o both_o the_o manichee_n abstain_v indeed_o from_o receive_v the_o chalice_n out_o of_o one_o haeretical_a principle_n as_o now_o our_o haeretique_n stand_v to_o have_v it_o for_o another_o like_a principle_n against_o which_o as_o in_o that_o time_n the_o church_n forbid_v the_o use_n of_o one_o kind_n so_o now_o it_o forbid_v the_o use_n of_o both_o kind_n and_o may_v again_o give_v way_n when_o it_o shall_v seem_v convenient_a for_o the_o use_n of_o both_o kind_n the_o doctrine_n ever_o remain_v the_o same_o as_o upon_o another_o occasion_n i_o say_v before_o for_o that_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o from_o whence_o the_o knight_n draw_v the_o succession_n of_o his_o doctrine_n it_o be_v speak_v only_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o in_o they_o to_o priest_n not_o to_o the_o laity_n of_o which_o i_o shall_v have_v occasion_n to_o speak_v again_o afterward_o 10._o but_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o matter_n the_o knight_n draw_v our_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n from_o the_o angelici_fw-la our_o work_n of_o supererogation_n from_o the_o cathari_n our_o worship_n of_o the_o b._n virgin_n from_o the_o collyridian_n our_o forbid_v priest_n to_o marry_v from_o tatianus_n and_o the_o manichee_n who_o he_o say_v forbid_v it_o in_o their_o priest_n put_v down_o the_o latin_a word_n in_o sacerdotibus_fw-la as_o if_o those_o special_a word_n be_v in_o s._n epiphanius_n who_o he_o cit_v but_o this_o serve_v for_o nothing_o chron_n v._o gual_n chron_n but_o to_o show_v the_o man_n shamelessness_n more_o and_o more_o for_o the_o angelici_fw-la they_o be_v heretic_n swerve_v from_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n by_o excess_n that_o be_v honour_v angel_n more_o than_o their_o dew_n or_o more_o than_o creature_n as_o 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he_o show_v the_o cause_n for_o if_o he_o show_v cause_n why_o do_v you_o call_v for_o 〈◊〉_d as_o if_o there_o be_v none_o give_v if_o he_o do_v not_o why_o do_v you_o say_v he_o do_v but_o to_o let_v that_o pass_n with_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o non_fw-la sequitur_n you_o bring_v the_o two_o place_n of_o scripture_n before_o cite_v drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o and_o do_v this_o in_o remembrance_n of_o i_o which_o place_n you_o may_v see_v answer_v in_o bellarmine_n with_o all_o the_o enforcement_n and_o urge_v that_o luther_n caluin_n kemnitius_n melancthon_n 24._o bell._n de_fw-fr euch._n lib._n 4._o cap._n 24._o brentius_n and_o all_o the_o rabble_n of_o they_o can_v bring_v the_o answer_n in_o a_o word_n be_v this_o that_o the_o former_a word_n be_v speak_v only_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o in_o they_o to_o priest_n as_o appear_v more_o plain_o by_o s._n mark_v who_o show_v all_o which_o our_o saviour_n mean_v of_o 14.23_o mar._n 14.23_o when_o he_o say_v drink_v you_o all_o 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we_o will_v have_v grant_v you_o that_o without_o all_o that_o labour_n but_o what_o proveâ—â—_n out_o that_o that_o all_o must_v do_v so_o now_o you_o must_v first_o prove_v it_o a_o practice_n ground_v upon_o some_o divine_a precept_n indispensable_a or_o else_o it_o follow_v not_o but_o that_o it_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n to_o alter_v the_o practice_n in_o the_o use_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n as_o it_o be_v to_o change_v the_o sabbath_n into_o the_o sunday_n though_o the_o observe_n of_o the_o sabbath_n be_v a_o divine_a precept_n nay_o you_o must_v prove_v that_o it_o be_v general_a so_o as_o none_o do_v or_o may_v do_v otherwise_o but_o that_o you_o can_v do_v for_o bellarmine_n even_o in_o the_o place_n here_o cite_v by_o you_o teach_v that_o even_o than_o all_o do_v not_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n and_o here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o note_v two_o thing_n one_o be_v that_o whereas_o bell._n in_o the_o place_n here_o cite_v say_v he_o prove_v before_o that_o all_o do_v not_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n that_o of_o the_o prove_v you_o leave_v out_o putte_v a_o little_a line_n which_o may_v give_v a_o man_n some_o notice_n of_o something_o want_v which_o yet_o be_v a_o little_a better_a deal_n then_o common_o you_o use_v though_o not_o so_o good_a as_o you_o promise_v we_o at_o first_o another_o that_o whereas_o bell._n bring_v six_o main_a reason_n deduce_v out_o of_o scripture_n partly_o out_o of_o the_o figure_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o partly_o out_o of_o the_o doctrine_n and_o example_n of_o our_o saviour_n and_o his_o apostle_n in_o the_o new_a and_o in_o one_o of_o those_o reason_n which_o be_v deduce_v out_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n he_o bring_v six_o several_a rite_n or_o practice_n which_o our_o adversaries_n can_v deny_v evident_o convince_a the_o frequent_a use_n of_o one_o kind_n you_o in_o your_o 7._o sect._n here_o before_o bring_v but_o one_o coniectural_a place_n which_o i_o there_o promise_v to_o answer_n as_o if_o bellarmine_n have_v no_o more_o nor_o no_o better_a proof_n even_o which_o conjecture_v you_o neither_o do_v nor_o can_v impugn_v for_o it_o be_v ground_v upon_o two_o place_n of_o scripture_n thus_o bellarmine_n say_v it_o be_v a_o probable_a conjecture_n that_o the_o nazarite_n among_o the_o first_o christian_n in_o jerusalem_n do_v communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n 24._o bell._n lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr euch._n cap._n 24._o he_o prove_v it_o thus_o one_o scripture_n say_v of_o these_o first_o christian_n in_o jerusalem_n that_o they_o be_v all_o persevere_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o break_v of_o bread_n which_o be_v the_o receive_n of_o the_o eucharist_n as_o all_o agree_v among_o these_o there_o be_v many_o nazarite_n as_o it_o be_v most_o probable_a for_o there_o be_v many_o continual_o among_o the_o jew_n which_o be_v so_o there_o be_v another_o scripture_n that_o do_v forbid_v a_o nazarite_n to_o drink_v wine_n or_o even_o eat_v a_o grape_n raisin_n or_o so_o much_o as_o the_o stone_n it_o be_v not_o like_a than_o that_o they_o do_v receive_v in_o both_o kind_n for_o either_o they_o must_v make_v the_o former_a scripture_n false_a if_o they_o do_v not_o communicate_v at_o all_o or_o they_o must_v break_v the_o command_n of_o the_o late_a by_o communicate_v in_o both_o kind_n this_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o say_v be_v a_o convince_a proof_n for_o such_o he_o have_v a_o great_a many_o other_o but_o only_o probable_a and_o such_o no_o man_n can_v deny_v it_o to_o be_v why_o then_o shall_v you_o stand_v jeer_a at_o it_o without_o once_o say_v what_o be_v false_a or_o improbable_a 9_o touch_v the_o rest_n of_o your_o author_n which_o you_o bring_v for_o proof_n that_o it_o be_v the_o common_a practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o laity_n to_o communicate_v in_o both_o kind_n i_o allow_v of_o their_o authority_n they_o affirm_v only_o that_o it_o be_v the_o practice_n not_o any_o command_n but_o for_o as_o much_o as_o you_o bring_v one_o authority_n to_o prove_v the_o more_o conveniency_n of_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n quite_o contrary_a to_o the_o author_n meaning_n i_o mean_v here_o to_o have_v a_o say_n unto_o you_o for_o it_o this_o author_n be_v ruardus_n tapperus_n who_o you_o cite_v thus_o it_o be_v more_o convenient_a the_o communion_n be_v administer_v under_o both_o kind_n then_o under_o one_o alone_a for_o this_o be_v more_o agreeable_a to_o the_o institution_n and_o fullness_n thereof_o and_o to_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n 15._o râ—ar_n tapp_n 〈◊〉_d 15._o the_o latin_a be_v thus_o habito_fw-la respectu_fw-la ad_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la eiusque_fw-la perfectionem_fw-la magis_fw-la
conveniret_fw-la sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la fieri_fw-la communionem_fw-la quam_fw-la sub_fw-la altera_fw-la tantum_fw-la hoc_fw-la enim_fw-la magis_fw-la consonum_fw-la est_fw-la eius_fw-la institutioni_fw-la &_o integritati_fw-la &_o refectioni_fw-la corporali_fw-la &_o exemplo_fw-la christi_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v if_o we_o regard_v the_o sacrament_n and_o the_o perfection_n thereof_o it_o be_v more_o convenient_a to_o have_v the_o communion_n under_o both_o kind_n then_o under_o one_o for_o this_o be_v more_o agreeable_a to_o the_o institution_n thereof_o and_o the_o integrity_n and_o corporal_a resection_n and_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n etc._n etc._n where_o first_o you_o leave_v out_o in_o your_o english_a translation_n those_o word_n habito_fw-la respectu_fw-la ad_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la though_o you_o put_v they_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n which_o word_n be_v the_o life_n of_o the_o sentence_n and_o plain_o show_v that_o tapper_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o the_o conveniency_n absolute_o and_o all_o thing_n consider_v but_o in_o some_o respect_n to_o wit_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o sacrament_n or_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o signification_n of_o our_o sauiour_n passion_n which_o be_v more_o express_a in_o both_o kind_n then_o in_o one_o &_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o institution_n which_o be_v in_o both_o &_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o integrity_n because_o as_o the_o divine_n say_v both_o the_o species_n be_v part_n integrantes_fw-la as_o two_o piece_n of_o bread_n in_o one_o loaf_n though_o both_o together_o have_v no_o more_o essential_a perfection_n than_o one_o alone_a and_o in_o respect_n of_o corporal_a refection_n which_o as_o it_o require_v meat_n and_o drink_v so_o the_o spiritual_a refection_n be_v more_o express_o signify_v by_o both_o though_o no_o less_o effectual_o perform_v by_o one_o so_o that_o this_o while_n tapper_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o absolute_a conveniency_n but_o only_o in_o some_o respect_n wherein_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o reader_n whether_o you_o have_v keep_v your_o promise_n of_o not_o wilful_o or_o witting_o misciting_a or_o mistranslate_n any_o author_n for_o here_o it_o appear_v how_o you_o have_v mis-translated_n leave_v out_o as_o a_o man_n may_v say_v the_o principal_a verb_n which_o shall_v yet_o more_o appear_v by_o that_o which_o follow_v immediate_o in_o the_o same_o author_n which_o be_v this_o alia_fw-la tamen_fw-la consideratione_n reverentia_fw-la uz._n quae_fw-la huic_fw-la sacramento_n dbetur_fw-la utque_fw-la in_o eius_fw-la usu_fw-la vitemus_fw-la omneâ—â—â—reverentian_n minus_fw-la convenit_fw-la atque_fw-la etiam_fw-la malun_fw-la est_fw-la nulloque_fw-la modâ—_n expediens_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ut_fw-la populus_fw-la christianus_n sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la communicaret_fw-la bâ—â—_n in_o another_o consideration_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o reverence_n which_o be_v dew_n to_o this_o sacrament_n and_o to_o the_o end_n we_o may_v avoid_v all_o irreverence_n it_o be_v less_o convenient_a and_o even_o it_o be_v ill_a and_o no_o way_n expedient_a for_o the_o church_n that_o the_o christian_a people_n shall_v communicate_v under_o both_o kind_n loe_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v it_o honest_o do_v of_o you_o to_o leave_v out_o this_o be_v the_o other_o half_n of_o the_o sentence_n answer_v to_o the_o former_a which_o of_o itself_o be_v imperfect_a and_o which_o be_v the_o author_n absolute_a judgement_n and_o determination_n can_v any_o man_n ever_o give_v you_o credit_v more_o but_o because_o sir_n i_o will_v not_o leave_v any_o scruple_n in_o any_o man_n mind_n concern_v this_o author_n meaning_n and_o that_o by_o the_o perfection_n and_o integrity_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o former_a part_n of_o the_o sentence_n he_o do_v not_o mean_v the_o want_n of_o any_o spiritual_a fruit_n i_o will_v add_v one_o word_n more_o out_o of_o he_o which_o be_v this_o in_o omissione_n calicis_fw-la nullum_fw-la interuenit_fw-la peccatum_fw-la aut_fw-la periculum_fw-la nec_fw-la aliquod_fw-la gratiae_fw-la spiritualis_fw-la iactum_fw-la in_o the_o omit_v or_o leave_v of_o the_o chalice_n there_o be_v no_o sin_n or_o danger_n or_o loss_n of_o any_o spiritual_a grace_n what_o can_v he_o say_v or_o we_o desire_v more_o 10._o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o your_o conclusion_n which_o you_o draw_v out_o of_o that_o that_o because_o many_o father_n and_o learned_a man_n do_v agree_v in_o say_v that_o the_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n be_v most_o frequent_a in_o the_o primitive_a church_n therefore_o they_o give_v testimony_n of_o your_o doctrine_n it_o be_v most_o foolish_a for_o we_o also_o agree_v with_o they_o in_o the_o former_a and_o yet_o deny_v your_o doctrine_n which_o be_v that_o all_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n &_o consequent_o that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o receive_v it_o in_o one_o kind_n and_o that_o so_o to_o receive_v it_o be_v to_o receive_v but_o a_o half_a communion_n and_o such_o like_a absurditye_n this_o be_v your_o doctrine_n for_o proof_n whereof_o you_o have_v not_o bring_v one_o word_n out_o of_o any_o author_n but_o bring_v some_o that_o say_v absolute_o and_o express_o the_o contrary_a as_o val._n tapper_n bell._n etc._n etc._n nay_o what_o will_v you_o say_v if_o a_o man_n shall_v show_v you_o out_o of_o your_o own_o statute_n law_n make_v now_o in_o this_o your_o time_n of_o reformation_n some_o approbation_n or_o allowance_n of_o the_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n 1._o 1._o edw._n 6._o cap._n 1._o which_o be_v the_o thing_n you_o exclaim_v so_o against_o we_o for_o see_v in_o the_o law_n of_o k._n edw._n 6._o reviue_v and_o confirm_v by_o q._n elizabeth_n whether_o they_o do_v not_o say_v only_o that_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v common_o deliver_v &_o minister_v to_o the_o people_n under_o both_o kind_n 1._o 1._o eliz._n ca._n 1._o &_o with_o this_o exception_n also_o unless_o necessity_n otherwise_o require_v look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v it_o not_o here_o allow_v upon_o necessity_n though_o the_o necessity_n be_v not_o express_v what_o or_o how_o great_a it_o must_v be_v but_o hence_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o particular_a necessity_n may_v excuse_v in_o a_o particular_a case_n if_o the_o necessity_n shall_v prove_v great_a &_o universal_a it_o may_v be_v also_o sufficient_a for_o abstayn_v from_o one_o kind_n universal_o or_o general_o and_o howsoever_o it_o show_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n not_o to_o be_v so_o strict_o command_v by_o christ_n for_o if_o it_o be_v no_o necessity_n can_v excuse_v it_o in_o one_o kind_a 11._o and_o so_o this_o may_v serve_v for_o this_o matter_n but_o that_o i_o be_o loath_a to_o let_v pass_v a_o worthy_a say_n of_o you_o in_o the_o very_a end_n of_o this_o §_o which_o be_v this_o and_o as_o concern_v the_o half_a communion_n which_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o want_v antiquity_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n by_o their_o own_o confession_n so_o likewise_o it_o want_v a_o right_a foundation_n in_o the_o scripture_n which_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n ought_v to_o have_v thus_o you_o where_o with_o your_o worship_n good_a leave_n a_o man_n may_v tell_v you_o you_o have_v as_o many_o fault_n as_o word_n we_o teach_v all_o the_o contrary_a to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o half_a communion_n but_o that_o christ_n be_v receive_v whole_a and_o entire_a and_o a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o as_o much_o spiritual_a fruit_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n in_o one_o kind_a as_o both_o as_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n by_o your_o confession_n define_v we_o say_v it_o neither_o want_v antiquity_n nor_o consent_n of_o father_n as_o you_o may_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n and_o many_o other_o we_o say_v it_o do_v not_o want_v a_o right_a foundation_n in_o the_o scripture_n for_o as_o i_o say_v before_o we_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n 24._o v._o bell._n lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr euch._n cap._n 24._o 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luciferian_n haeretique_n out_o of_o
say_v mention_v the_o story_n there_o be_v not_o one_o that_o make_v any_o mention_n of_o change_v the_o church-office_n into_o latin_a upon_o it_o but_o only_o they_o allege_v it_o by_o occasion_n of_o the_o secret_a read_n of_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o mass_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n they_o have_v in_o hand_n 15._o now_o for_o the_o story_n itself_o you_o can_v but_o know_v that_o it_o be_v answer_v by_o bellarmine_n it_o be_v object_v former_o by_o kemnitius_n 12_o bell_n lib._n 2._o the_o miss_n cap._n 12_o his_o answer_n then_o be_v that_o there_o be_v such_o a_o story_n relate_v by_o good_a authority_n in_o pratum_fw-la spiritual_fw-la but_o there_o neither_o the_o bread_n nor_o wine_n be_v transubstantiate_v but_o consume_v by_o fire_n from_o heaven_n nor_o the_o shepherd_n strike_v dead_a but_o only_o lay_v for_o dead_a 24._o hour_n after_o which_o they_o come_v to_o themselves_o again_o which_o be_v neither_o impossible_a nor_o improbable_a now_o for_o these_o three_o author_n that_o you_o cite_v none_o of_o they_o do_v relate_v it_o out_o of_o any_o author_n or_o with_o any_o special_a credit_n but_o only_o out_o of_o a_o report_n which_o they_o express_v by_o the_o word_n fertur_fw-la and_o therefore_o some_o of_o they_o as_o honorius_n and_o belethus_n may_v be_v mistake_v in_o some_o of_o the_o circumstance_n though_o innocentius_n be_v not_o 1._o innoc._n 3_o lib._n 3._o de_fw-fr miss_n cap._n 1._o for_o he_o say_v no_o more_o of_o it_o but_o this_o that_o it_o be_v report_v that_o when_o certain_a shepherd_n do_v sing_v the_o word_n in_o the_o field_n they_o be_v strike_v from_o heaven_n which_o be_v true_a now_o this_o suppose_a as_o the_o story_n do_v not_o make_v any_o way_n against_o we_o for_o we_o grant_v that_o the_o word_n be_v ancient_o pronounce_v aloud_o in_o some_o place_n so_o it_o make_v against_o you_o who_o deny_v that_o any_o where_o they_o be_v speak_v soft_o for_o the_o author_n of_o this_o story_n give_v a_o reason_n how_o the_o boy_n come_v to_o learn_v the_o word_n say_v thus_o 196._o prat._n spirit_n cap._n 196._o quoniam_fw-la verò_fw-la quibusdam_fw-la in_o locis_fw-la alta_fw-la voce_fw-la consueverant_fw-la presbyteri_fw-la sancti_fw-la sacrificij_fw-la orationes_fw-la pronunciare_fw-la pveri_fw-la ut_fw-la propius_fw-la astantes_fw-la saepius_fw-la eas_fw-la audiendo_fw-la didicerant_fw-la because_o in_o some_o place_n the_o priest_n be_v wont_a to_o pronounce_v the_o prayer_n of_o the_o holy_a sacrifice_n with_o a_o loud_a voice_n the_o boy_n as_o stand_v near_o by_o often_o hear_v have_v learn_v they_o loe_o sir_n humphrey_n it_o be_v but_o in_o some_o place_n that_o they_o do_v say_v those_o prayer_n aloud_o so_o that_o withal_o this_o labour_n you_o have_v prove_v nothing_o but_o against_o yourself_o well_o then_o you_o have_v fail_v in_o the_o proof_n of_o your_o doctrine_n in_o this_o as_o in_o the_o rest_n withal_o the_o corruption_n and_o trick_n you_o can_v use_v let_v we_o see_v what_o you_o do_v in_o the_o next_o §._o 7._o worship_n of_o image_n 1._o this_o 7._o §_o of_o image-worshipp_a our_o knight_n begin_v after_o his_o ordinary_a manner_n with_o a_o article_n as_o he_o call_v it_o of_o our_o roman_a creed_n wherein_o we_o profess_v that_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n our_o lady_n and_o the_o saint_n be_v to_o be_v have_v and_o retain_v and_o that_o due_a honour_n and_o veneration_n be_v to_o be_v yield_v unto_o they_o and_o then_o bring_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n 25._o sess_n 25._o for_o the_o same_o point_n in_o these_o word_n we_o teach_v that_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n the_o virgin_n mother_n of_o god_n and_o other_o saint_n be_v chief_o in_o church_n to_o be_v have_v and_o retain_v and_o that_o due_a honour_n and_o worship_n be_v to_o be_v give_v they_o which_o decree_n he_o may_v have_v translate_v a_o little_a better_o and_o more_o clear_o by_o say_v that_o those_o image_n be_v to_o be_v have_v and_o retain_v especial_o in_o church_n the_o latin_a word_n be_v praesertim_fw-la and_o his_o translate_n thereof_o chief_o and_o place_v it_o so_o odd_o give_v cause_n to_o think_v he_o have_v a_o evil_a meaning_n therein_o as_o if_o he_o will_v have_v his_o reader_n think_v that_o the_o council_n teach_v that_o these_o image_n be_v the_o chief_a thing_n to_o be_v have_v in_o church_n which_o be_v not_o the_o council'_v meaning_n as_o be_v plain_a the_o word_n be_v very_o clear_a in_o latin_a but_o this_o be_v but_o a_o note_n by_o the_o way_n not_o as_o a_o thing_n that_o i_o stand_v upon_o 2._o this_o our_o doctrine_n of_o image-worship_n he_o do_v absolute_o deny_v and_o condemn_v as_o a_o wicked_a and_o blasphemous_a opinion_n first_o because_o it_o not_o only_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o say_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n ought_v to_o have_v but_o because_o the_o scripture_n do_v flat_o and_o plain_o forbid_v it_o and_o in_o the_o margin_n cit_v levit._n 26._o ex._n 20._o deut._n 4._o esay_n 40._o this_o censure_n be_v somewhat_o deep_a sir_n humphrey_n upon_o such_o sleight_n ground_n because_o forsooth_o we_o have_v no_o proof_n of_o scripture_n for_o though_o you_o think_v it_o necessary_a to_o have_v express_a proof_n of_o scripture_n to_o make_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o as_o i_o say_v before_o you_o be_v much_o mistake_v wherefore_o you_o ought_v not_o to_o stand_v still_o urge_v it_o in_o such_o manner_n as_o if_o it_o be_v a_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a principle_n yet_o this_o i_o grant_v you_o that_o though_o express_a scripture_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o make_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o if_o you_o have_v express_v scripture_n against_o it_o it_o be_v true_a it_o can_v be_v no_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o by_o your_o leave_n none_o of_o those_o place_n which_o you_o note_v make_v any_o mention_n of_o image-worship_n but_o idol-worship_n which_o you_o can_v but_o know_v to_o be_v a_o different_a thing_n have_v be_v so_o often_o tell_v it_o as_o you_o have_v be_v by_o we_o therefore_o your_o first_o proof_n fail_v all_o faill_v for_o though_o you_o put_v a_o first_o yet_o i_o see_v no_o second_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 3._o but_o because_o here_o have_v be_v a_o end_n too_o soon_o of_o so_o good_a a_o matter_n you_o tell_v we_o vazq_n say_v all_o image_n be_v forbid_v so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o be_v dedicate_v to_o adoration_n and_o cornelius_n agrippa_n say_v the_o jew_n do_v abhor_v nothing_o more_o than_o image_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n you_o allege_v philo_n the_o jew_n speak_v of_o the_o jew_n of_o those_o time_n and_o sir_n edwin_n sand_n of_o the_o jew_n that_o be_v now_o adays_o whereupon_o you_o conclude_v that_o it_o be_v agree_v upon_o on_o both_o side_n that_o the_o jew_n never_o allow_v adoration_n of_o image_n for_o 4000_o year_n and_o from_o thence_o you_o descend_v to_o the_o new_a testament_n wherein_o you_o say_v the_o same_o law_n remain_v because_o it_o be_v moral_a for_o though_o some_o catholic_n teach_v that_o it_o be_v a_o positive_a caeremonial_a law_n yet_o other_o say_v it_o be_v natural_a and_o for_o that_o you_o allege_v bellar._n wherefore_o the_o law_n be_v not_o abrogate_a you_o will_v have_v some_o example_n or_o precept_n in_o the_o gospel_n for_o adoration_n of_o which_o you_o say_v mr._n fisher_n acknowledge_v there_o be_v not_o any_o express_v but_o that_o there_o be_v principle_n which_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n suppose_v convince_v adoration_n to_o be_v lawful_a so_o as_o from_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n say_v you_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v declare_v well_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o in_o a_o word_n be_v but_o this_o the_o jew_n may_v not_o have_v nor_o adore_v image_n ergo_fw-la we_o may_v not_o for_o asweare_v whereof_o i_o may_v say_v in_o like_a sort_n the_o jew_n may_v not_o eat_v blood_n nor_o swine_n flesh_n nor_o many_o other_o thing_n ergo_fw-la we_o may_v not_o but_o because_o you_o may_v say_v these_o precept_n be_v caeremonial_a &_o therefore_o not_o now_o in_o force_n the_o other_o natural_a &_o therefore_o in_o force_n for_o the_o present_a i_o will_v only_o make_v this_o argument_n to_o show_v the_o connexion_n of_o your_o antecedent_n and_o consequent_a the_o jew_n may_v not_o make_v any_o similitude_n or_o likeness_n of_o any_o thing_n in_o heaven_n or_o earth_n to_o adore_v it_o for_o a_o god_n ergo_fw-la we_o may_v not_o make_v or_o have_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n and_o saint_n to_o reverence_n and_o honour_v they_o as_o the_o picture_n of_o saint_n only_o and_o not_o god_n be_v not_o here_o a_o good_a and_o a_o substantial_a argument_n trow_v you_o and_o yet_o it_o be_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n 4._o but_o say_v you_o there_o be_v such_o a_o command_n of_o
wind_n indulgence_n §._o 8._o 1._o we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o last_o §_o of_o this_o chapter_n which_o be_v indulgence_n which_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v after_o your_o wont_a manner_n with_o the_o ten_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n teach_v that_o christ_n have_v leave_v that_o power_n of_o grant_v indulgence_n in_o his_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n have_v use_v the_o same_o from_o most_o ancient_a time_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v retain_v in_o the_o church_n condemn_v also_o whosoever_o shall_v term_v they_o unprofitable_a or_o deny_v authority_n in_o the_o church_n to_o grant_v they_o which_o doctrine_n you_o allow_v not_o of_o as_o not_o be_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n institution_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n you_o confess_v indeed_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v a_o power_n in_o the_o bishop_n to_o remit_v or_o mitigate_v the_o severity_n of_o the_o punishment_n which_o by_o the_o canon_n man_n be_v to_o undergo_v for_o certain_a great_a crime_n which_o mitigation_n you_o allow_v to_o have_v be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o indulgence_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n you_o take_v that_o relaxation_n of_o the_o incestuous_a corithian_a by_o s_n paul_n thus_o far_o you_o go_v well_o with_o we_o but_o now_o you_o say_v the_o indulgence_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n &_o his_o saint_n term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n which_o treasure_n you_o say_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o leave_v to_o the_o discretion_n of_o every_o bishop_n in_o his_o diocese_n be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o this_o not_o only_o for_o some_o few_o year_n in_o this_o life_n but_o for_o many_o thousand_o in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n 2._o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o though_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v to_o be_v a_o very_a good_a and_o substantial_a one_o yet_o be_v it_o nothing_o so_o for_o first_o it_o neither_o prove_v any_o thing_n nor_o overthrow_v our_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n though_o that_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n of_o these_o time_n and_o those_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o use_n of_o those_o time_n be_v not_o our_o only_a ground_n for_o this_o point_n of_o doctrine_n but_o we_o have_v other_o both_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n &_o undoubted_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o above_o a_o thousand_o year_n at_o least_o and_o this_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n in_o relaxation_n of_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o penitential_a canon_n be_v not_o urge_v by_o we_o at_o lest_o by_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n as_o a_o evident_a convince_a proof_n but_o only_o as_o coniectural_a and_o probable_a q._n suar._n to_o 3._o in_o 3._o pars_fw-la disp_n 49_o sect_n 2._o n._n 4.5_o &_o sâ—_n q._n it_o be_v not_o then_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o you_o to_o stand_v so_o much_o urge_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o indulgence_n of_o our_o time_n and_o those_o of_o other_o former_a time_n as_o if_o by_o do_v that_o you_o have_v do_v all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v do_v 3._o but_o beside_o to_o answer_n second_o you_o have_v not_o do_v even_o that_o for_o you_o do_v but_o only_o make_v show_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v man_n think_v they_o be_v different_a without_o show_v wherein_o the_o difference_n consist_v nay_o even_o out_o of_o that_o which_o you_o grant_v of_o those_o ancient_a indulgence_n you_o may_v be_v disprove_v in_o what_o you_o deny_v of_o we_o for_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a word_n indulgence_n you_o grant_v it_o to_o have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v we_o be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o though_o allege_v as_o a_o difference_n yet_o do_v i_o not_o see_v wherein_o the_o difference_n be_v for_o they_o be_v a_o absolution_n because_o it_o be_v a_o unloose_n or_o untie_n for_o whereas_o by_o the_o canon_n for_o certain_a great_a crime_n man_n be_v bind_v or_o tie_v to_o undergo_v such_o penance_n for_o example_n to_o fast_o with_o bread_n and_o water_n so_o many_o day_n in_o a_o week_n for_o so_o many_o month_n or_o year_n not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n and_o the_o like_a by_o this_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n which_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v untie_v or_o loose_v from_o so_o much_o or_o so_o little_a as_o by_o that_o pardon_n they_o be_v free_v from_o and_o so_o be_v it_o in_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o in_o the_o absolution_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o lose_v or_o untie_n it_o can_v not_o be_v also_o in_o the_o guilt_n which_o must_v needs_o be_v remit_v in_o your_o indulgence_n as_o well_o as_o in_o we_o for_o a_o man_n be_v not_o free_a so_o long_o as_o he_o be_v guilty_a if_o then_o they_o be_v free_v by_o that_o pardon_n the_o guilt_n be_v take_v away_o thereby_o it_o be_v not_o likewise_o in_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n which_o be_v alike_o remit_v in_o the_o one_o and_o other_o for_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n or_o penance_n which_o man_n be_v free_v from_o in_o those_o time_n by_o indulgence_n and_o so_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n which_o we_o be_v now_o adays_o free_v from_o by_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o you_o mean_v sir_n humphrey_n when_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v a_o difference_n in_o this_o say_v that_o indulgence_n which_o be_v first_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n for_o what_o be_v not_o those_o indulgence_n give_v to_o private_a man_n for_o satisfaction_n or_o in_o lieu_n of_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o they_o be_v to_o make_v by_o the_o canon_n and_o be_v not_o we_o mitigation_n of_o the_o same_o unless_o you_o put_v the_o force_n in_o this_o that_o there_o the_o punishment_n be_v only_o mitigate_v or_o lessen_v &_o that_o in_o our_o indulgence_n all_o be_v take_v away_o which_o yet_o be_v false_a on_o both_o side_n for_o neither_o in_o we_o be_v all_o the_o punishment_n take_v always_o away_o and_o in_o those_o sometime_o all_o be_v take_v away_o as_o we_o see_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o corinthian_a who_o s._n paul_n do_v forgive_v without_o limitation_n beside_o this_o i_o do_v not_o imagine_v what_o you_o can_v mean_v in_o these_o word_n 4._o the_o difference_n also_o be_v not_o in_o the_o authority_n or_o power_n whereby_o this_o pardon_n be_v grant_v for_o than_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o the_o bishop_n and_o so_o it_o be_v also_o now_o for_o every_o bishop_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v this_o power_n but_o you_o will_v say_v humphrey_n not_o so_o much_o now_o as_o then_o be_v it_o so_o that_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o that_o be_v your_o complaint_n that_o it_o be_v more_o use_v now_o then_o in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v again_o the_o pope_n have_v more_o now_o than_o he_o have_v then_o and_o that_o all_o be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o late_a part_n be_v false_a all_o be_v not_o so_o whole_o transfer_v but_o that_o every_o bishop_n have_v his_o part_n of_o this_o power_n over_o his_o own_o subject_n though_o with_o some_o limitation_n and_o though_o the_o pope_n shall_v take_v it_o whole_o to_o himself_o and_o from_o other_o bishop_n what_o be_v this_o against_o indulgence_n do_v it_o alter_v the_o nature_n of_o they_o because_o the_o pope_n give_v they_o either_o more_o by_o himself_o or_o more_o liberal_o than_o he_o do_v heretofore_o by_o other_o the_o power_n be_v in_o many_o before_o now_o it_o be_v in_o one_o that_o one_o than_o have_v more_o power_n than_o he_o have_v before_o but_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o power_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n can_v consist_v in_o this_o but_o think_v not_o sir_n that_o i_o grant_v you_o the_o pope_n power_n to_o be_v more_o now_o then_o at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v nor_o less_o than_o they_o now_o it_o be_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o this_o power_n as_o of_o all_o other_o his_o power_n of_o bind_v &_o lose_v whereof_o this_o be_v one_o branch_n which_o do_v ever_o extend_v over_o the_o whole_a church_n over_o all_o pastor_n and_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o
most_o strong_a argument_n of_o antiquity_n that_o it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n time_n out_o of_o mind_n and_o of_o consent_n that_o no_o man_n be_v find_v to_o have_v speak_v against_o it_o but_o only_o know_v haeretique_n such_o as_o the_o waldense_n who_o be_v the_o first_o impugner_n of_o indulgence_n 1_o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr indulg_n cap._n 1_o therefore_o you_o be_v still_o out_o of_o your_o bias_n when_o you_o think_v to_o prove_v the_o novelty_n of_o our_o doctrine_n by_o our_o want_n of_o testimony_n of_o antiquity_n for_o though_o we_o have_v such_o testimony_n for_o superaboundant_a proof_n yet_o it_o be_v enough_o that_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v thaught_v and_o practise_v in_o catholic_a church_n without_o any_o memory_n when_o it_o begin_v for_o that_o be_v s._n augustine_n rule_n continual_o to_o prove_v a_o thing_n not_o only_o ancient_a but_o even_o apostolical_a 10._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o your_o author_n in_o particular_a 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name_n s._n ambrose_n s._n hilar._n s._n aug._n and_o s._n hierome_n only_o for_o example_n sake_n whereas_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o present_o after_o he_o name_v s._n greg._n and_o say_v of_o he_o that_o he_o do_v institute_v indulgence_n at_o the_o station_n in_o rome_n so_o as_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o speak_v only_o of_o those_o 4._o not_o of_o all_o the_o father_n in_o general_n and_o so_o much_o for_o durand_n 11._o as_o for_o alphonsus_n à _fw-fr castro_n another_o of_o your_o author_n he_o deni_v not_o all_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n as_o none_o of_o the_o rest_n do_v but_o only_o plain_a &_o express_v testimony_n and_o though_o he_o also_o confess_v the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n not_o to_o have_v be_v so_o much_o in_o those_o ancient_a time_n as_o since_o yet_o he_o allow_v of_o they_o so_o far_o as_o to_o condemn_v any_o man_n for_o a_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v deny_v they_o these_o be_v his_o word_n indulgent_a alph._n a_o castr_n de_fw-fr haeres_fw-la lib._n 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be_v worthy_o to_o be_v count_v a_o haeretique_n what_o think_v you_o now_o of_o yourself_o to_o be_v call_v haeretique_n out_o of_o your_o own_o mouth_n as_o it_o be_v that_o be_v out_o of_o your_o author_n mouth_n who_o you_o bring_v for_o you_o for_o castro_n his_o authority_n then_o though_o it_o have_v be_v more_o for_o you_o then_o it_o be_v in_o this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n yet_o you_o have_v be_v better_o have_v let_v it_o alone_o then_o to_o have_v it_o with_o such_o a_o condition_n the_o like_o a_o man_n may_v say_v of_o every_o author_n you_o bring_v here_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n but_o that_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o stand_v so_o long_o upon_o examine_v every_o one_o in_o particular_a 12._o now_o after_o such_o good_a authoritye_n as_o you_o bring_v against_o indulgence_n you_o think_v you_o may_v with_o authority_n prate_v very_o free_o of_o the_o pope_n sell_v of_o indulgence_n and_o bring_v money_n to_o his_o own_o coffer_n by_o they_o but_o to_o that_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v such_o
riff_o raff_o stuff_n as_o your_o minister_n be_v wont_a to_o eke_o out_o their_o book_n and_o sermon_n without_o be_v able_a to_o show_v any_o bull_n of_o pope_n or_o testimony_n of_o good_a author_n of_o any_o indulgence_n so_o grant_v which_o though_o you_o or_o they_o can_v yet_o be_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n no_o more_o than_o your_o profane_a jest_n out_o of_o guiciardin_n of_o play_v a_o game_n at_o table_n for_o a_o indulgence_n for_o what_o suppose_v that_o be_v true_a may_v not_o a_o man_n think_v you_o tell_v as_o good_a a_o tale_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o in_o their_o pot_n have_v make_v so_o bold_a with_o almighty_a god_n himself_o as_o to_o drink_v a_o health_n unto_o he_o and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o fine_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n beside_o guiciardin_n history_n translate_v by_o coelius_n secundus_fw-la curio_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o to_o cite_v for_o it_o be_v most_o like_o you_o be_v no_o italian_a be_v forbid_v in_o 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father_n but_o this_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v no_o more_o require_v to_o be_v by_o their_o express_a testimony_n in_o writing_n then_o in_o the_o scripture_n itself_o for_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o the_o holy_a father_n do_v know_v believe_v or_o practice_v no_o more_o but_o what_o they_o do_v write_v or_o that_o any_o one_o do_v write_v in_o particular_a all_o the_o whole_a belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o father_n do_v in_o their_o writing_n as_o the_o apostle_n do_v in_o they_o that_o be_v write_v of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a matter_n as_o the_o particular_a occasion_n of_o answer_v some_o haeretique_n or_o instruct_v some_o catholic_a do_v require_v and_o therefore_o mention_v no_o more_o than_o be_v needful_a for_o that_o end_n but_o the_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v most_o of_o all_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o the_o present_a time_n see_v that_o practice_n be_v without_o beginning_n can_v otherwise_o have_v 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it_o be_v so_o still_o for_o as_o hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a be_v then_o the_o most_o know_a tongue_n in_o which_o only_a the_o scripture_n be_v write_v and_o public_o read_v so_o the_o same_o language_n be_v still_o use_v partly_o because_o they_o be_v sacred_a and_o partly_o because_o they_o be_v most_o know_v what_o then_o make_v that_o against_o our_o latin_a mass_n or_o rather_o be_v it_o not_o a_o proof_n of_o our_o antiquity_n and_o disproof_n of_o his_o novelty_n against_o image-worship_n he_o talk_v of_o the_o 2._o commandment_n and_o the_o hate_n of_o the_o jew_n against_o image_n he_o bring_v the_o testimony_n of_o some_o haeretique_n against_o they_o and_o the_o say_n of_o some_o one_o divine_a of_o the_o manner_n of_o worship_n and_o the_o reprehension_n of_o other_o against_o the_o abuse_n commit_v in_o the_o adoration_n of_o they_o out_o of_o all_o which_o set_v the_o testimony_n of_o haeretique_n a_o part_n i_o ask_v what_o he_o will_v conclude_v or_o how_o he_o 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what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v shall_v move_v man_n much_o less_o angel_n to_o witness_v the_o antiquity_n or_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n nay_o do_v not_o his_o manner_n of_o proof_n rather_o show_v the_o sleightnes_n and_o novelty_n thereof_o together_o with_o the_o strange_a vanity_n of_o a_o brave_a knight_n that_o brag_v his_o church_n before_o luther_n be_v in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o father_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n praetend_v right_o to_o the_o father_n apostle_n and_o christ_n without_o show_v any_o shadow_n of_o succession_n that_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n which_o he_o be_v to_o have_v do_v here_o and_o indeed_o the_o only_a proper_a proof_n for_o a_o man_n that_o will_v profess_v right_a to_o such_o ancestor_n and_o this_o be_v indeed_o the_o proof_n which_o tertullian_n do_v exact_a at_o the_o hand_n of_o some_o haeretique_n who_o claim_v antiquity_n and_o will_v needs_o have_v their_o doctrine_n pass_v for_o 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clement_n ordain_v by_o peter_n &_o so_o other_o church_n show_v who_o they_o have_v have_v place_v bishop_n by_o the_o apostle_n as_o it_o be_v branch_n of_o the_o apostolical_a seed_n let_v the_o haeretique_n feign_v any_o such_o thing_n so_o he_o do_v you_o hear_v tertullian_n sir_n humphrey_n brag_v then_o if_o you_o think_v good_a still_o we_o give_v you_o leave_v that_o your_o church_n be_v ancient_o in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n father_n and_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n without_o show_v any_o such_o succession_n of_o bishop_n draw_v down_o from_o the_o apostle_n 7._o now_o than_o that_o you_o have_v speak_v so_o well_o of_o the_o certainty_n of_o your_o own_o belief_n let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o we_o wherewith_o you_o begin_v thus_o that_o for_o far_a proof_n of_o your_o cause_n you_o will_v give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n even_o of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n who_o without_o partiality_n will_v testify_v 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christ_n who_o have_v give_v the_o ecclesiastical_a power_n of_o such_o key_n to_o man_n so_o as_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o gerson_n hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n certain_a no_o less_o than_o durand_n &_o the_o whole_a school_n of_o divine_n &_o even_o the_o catholic_a church_n 13._o the_o four_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v of_o adoration_n of_o image_n to_o which_o you_o say_v we_o be_v uncertain_a what_o worship_n we_o may_v give_v for_o say_v you_o the_o 2._o nicene_n council_n allow_v a_o civil_a kind_n of_o worship_n without_o any_o corporal_a submission_n but_o many_o of_o our_o divine_n allow_v they_o a_o high_a kind_n of_o worship_n that_o be_v the_o very_a same_o which_o be_v give_v to_o their_o sampler_n which_o bellarmine_n you_o say_v be_v against_o and_o say_v it_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o preach_v that_o opinion_n to_o the_o people_n because_o it_o require_v such_o subtle_a distinction_n as_o the_o learned_a can_v well_o conceive_v much_o less_o the_o 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it_o be_v for_o you_o i_o can_v here_o omit_v to_o set_v down_o what_o it_o say_v of_o you_o and_o your_o doctrine_n for_o your_o comfort_n to_o those_o that_o use_v the_o word_n speak_v in_o scripture_n against_o idol_n against_o venerable_a image_n anathema_n or_o be_v they_o accurse_v to_o those_o that_o do_v not_o salut_v holy_a &_o venerable_a image_n anathema_n to_o those_o that_o call_v holy_a image_n idol_n anathema_n to_o those_o that_o say_v that_o christian_n come_v to_o image_n as_o to_o god_n anathema_n to_o those_o that_o say_v the_o catholic_a church_n have_v at_o some_o time_n receive_v idolatry_n anathema_n these_o be_v all_o the_o counsel_n word_n &_o curse_n of_o all_o which_o you_o can_v but_o confess_v yourself_o guilty_a &_o you_o can_v insinuate_v as_o if_o the_o council_n be_v rather_o for_o you_o then_o we_o will_v a_o man_n think_v it_o possible_a but_o beside_o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o council_n pretend_v nothing_o but_o a_o civil_a kind_n of_o embrace_v or_o kiss_v without_o any_o corporal_a submission_n unto_o the_o image_n i_o will_v know_v of_o you_o what_o it_o mean_v when_o speak_v of_o image_n it_o say_v they_o be_v to_o be_v worship_v so_o far_o ad_fw-la osculum_fw-la &_o ad_fw-la honorariam_fw-la his_fw-la adorationem_fw-la tribuendam_fw-la to_o give_v a_o kiss_n and_o honour_v adoration_n do_v not_o adoration_n include_v corporal_a submission_n and_o special_o honorary_a adoration_n neither_o do_v the_o council_n mean_v only_o a_o civil_a kind_n of_o embrace_v or_o kiss_v as_o you_o call_v it_o but_o a_o religious_a worship_n for_o it_o continual_o add_v some_o one_o or_o more_o of_o these_o epithet_n sancta_fw-la sacra_fw-la veneranda_fw-la or_o venerabilis_fw-la holy_a sacred_a venerable_a to_o the_o word_n imago_fw-la image_n when_o it_o speak_v of_o image_n but_o because_o you_o seem_v not_o to_o think_v corporal_a submission_n to_o be_v sufficient_o employ_v by_o the_o council_n either_o in_o those_o epithet_n or_o in_o the_o word_n colo_fw-la suscipio_fw-la veneror_fw-la &_o adoro_fw-la which_o go_v together_o for_o the_o most_o part_n in_o the_o subscription_n of_o the_o bishop_n in_o the_o council_n though_o among_o man_n it_o will_v be_v count_v a_o poor_a kind_n of_o worship_n or_o respect_v which_o shall_v want_v all_o corporal_a submission_n i_o will_v bring_v you_o most_o plain_a and_o express_v proof_n both_o of_o prostration_n and_o kneel_v by_o 2._o several_a relation_n or_o history_n one_o be_v this_o it_o be_v there_o relate_v how_o when_o the_o relic_n of_o s._n anastasius_n a_o monk_n &_o martyr_n be_v bring_v to_o caesarea_n the_o people_n receive_v they_o with_o great_a devotion_n &_o honour_n only_o one_o great_a lady_n will_v not_o but_o in_o her_o own_o hart_n slight_v they_o whereupon_o the_o saint_n appear_v to_o she_o in_o her_o sleep_n she_o be_v take_v with_o a_o very_a vehement_a pain_n in_o she_o back_o for_o 4._o day_n together_o till_o the_o same_o saint_n appear_v to_o she_o again_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n will_v she_o to_o go_v to_o s._n anastasius_n in_o such_o a_o place_n of_o the_o town_n where_o his_o relic_n &_o picture_n be_v keep_v she_o not_o know_v all_o this_o while_n who_o it_o be_v that_o appear_v unto_o she_o and_o so_o awake_v she_o be_v carry_v thither_o &_o as_o soon_o as_o she_o come_v in_o the_o sight_n of_o the_o picture_n she_o cry_v out_o that_o that_o be_v the_o man_n that_o in_o her_o sleep_n foretell_v she_o the_o misery_n which_o she_o be_v fall_v into_o and_o when_o she_o have_v prostrate_v herself_o upon_o the_o ground_n before_o his_o picture_n and_o weep_v and_o thereby_o appease_v the_o saint_n she_o be_v restore_v to_o her_o former_a health_n the_o other_o story_n be_v of_o s._n mary_n aegyptiaca_n her_o conversion_n &_o the_o occasion_n thereof_o and_o how_o she_o come_v into_o the_o church_n adore_v the_o cross_n &_o picture_n of_o our_o b._n lady_n whereof_o there_o be_v a_o large_a relation_n only_o this_o i_o 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you_o bring_v as_o if_o he_o do_v allow_v some_o idol-worship_n it_o be_v manifest_a by_o they_o that_o he_o do_v not_o allow_v any_o such_o but_o out_o of_o the_o word_n illicitis_fw-la simulachrorum_fw-la cultibus_fw-la in_o s._n peter_n take_v the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la in_o a_o good_a sense_n that_o be_v for_o the_o same_o as_o imago_fw-la as_o some_o ancient_a author_n do_v and_o withal_o explicate_v his_o meaning_n in_o the_o use_n thereof_o he_o say_v it_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v gather_v out_o of_o s._n peter_n determine_v the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la by_o the_o word_n illicitis_fw-la cultibus_fw-la that_o there_o be_v some_o good_a image-worshipp_a which_o argument_n be_v it_o good_a or_o bad_a or_o be_v his_o use_n of_o the_o word_n simulachra_fw-la for_o image_n good_a or_o bad_a it_o be_v all_o one_o for_o the_o matter_n as_o long_o as_o
section_n so_o be_v you_o not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o safe_a in_o this_o wherein_o notwitstanding_o we_o must_v hear_v a_o little_a what_o you_o say_v and_o first_o i_o wonder_v you_o talk_v still_o so_o much_o of_o prove_v the_o safety_n and_o comfort_n of_o your_o faith_n out_o of_o our_o author_n when_o you_o can_v name_v that_o man_n that_o say_v any_o such_o word_n for_o suppose_v you_o find_v one_o author_n or_o two_o of_o we_o that_o say_v something_o different_a from_o the_o common_a opinion_n in_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a point_n of_o doctrine_n do_v he_o present_o say_v the_o protestant_a faith_n be_v safe_a for_o example_n one_o say_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n of_o itself_o give_v more_o gtace_n do_v he_o therefore_o say_v your_o faith_n be_v safe_a noe_o very_o but_o the_o same_o man_n do_v condemn_v your_o doctrine_n for_o most_o unsafe_a and_o dangerous_a and_o lead_v to_o the_o very_a pit_n of_o hell_n for_o even_o those_o thing_n which_o of_o themselves_o may_v perhaps_o seem_v indifferent_a your_o disobedience_n and_o spirit_n of_o contradiction_n make_v they_o damnable_a to_o eat_v be_v a_o thing_n indifferent_a but_o yet_o to_o eat_v with_o offence_n of_o our_o neighbour_n be_v ill_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v 14.20_o rom_n 14.20_o malum_fw-la est_fw-la homini_fw-la qui_fw-la manducat_fw-la per_fw-la offendiculum_fw-la it_o be_v ill_a for_o a_o man_n that_o eat_v by_o give_v offence_n and_o if_o the_o offend_a and_o scandalize_a of_o one_o of_o the_o little_a one_o which_o our_o saviour_n show_v speak_v of_o this_o matter_n of_o scandal_n be_v able_a to_o make_v a_o thing_n indifferent_a to_o become_v so_o ill_o how_o much_o more_o be_v scandalize_a of_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o rebellious_a stiffness_n able_a to_o make_v a_o thing_n otherwise_o indifferent_a or_o perhaps_o in_o some_o respect_n good_a to_o become_v not_o only_o ill_a but_o damnable_a but_o leave_v that_o i_o come_v to_o the_o point_n 2._o you_o prove_v the_o safety_n of_o your_o doctrine_n above_o we_o because_o bellarmine_n say_v of_o the_o scripture_n that_o it_o be_v a_o most_o certain_a and_o safe_a rule_n of_o believe_v and_o so_o also_o say_v we_o but_o what_o then_o wherein_o be_v your_o faith_n more_o safe_a than_o we_o we_o rely_v upon_o the_o same_o ground_n of_o safety_n as_o much_o and_o more_o than_o you_o how_o then_o be_v we_o less_o safe_a you_o say_v we_o rely_v upon_o the_o pope_n and_o church_n which_o be_v but_o the_o authority_n of_o man._n well_o grant_v for_o disputation_n sake_n it_o be_v but_o the_o authority_n of_o man_n if_o it_o be_v so_o that_o we_o do_v leave_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n &_o stick_v only_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o church_n it_o be_v somewhat_o than_o you_o may_v with_o some_o colour_n at_o least_o say_v your_o way_n be_v more_o safe_a but_o now_o that_o we_o acknowledge_v and_o reverence_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n as_o much_o nay_o much_o more_o than_o you_o and_o join_v therewith_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o church_n for_o exposition_n of_o the_o same_o though_o it_o shall_v be_v but_o humane_a how_o do_v that_o diminish_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n or_o make_v it_o less_o safe_a a_o man_n in_o his_o right_a wit_n will_v think_v it_o will_v rather_o help_v then_o hinder_v but_o what_o if_o this_o authority_n be_v more_o than_o humane_a as_o indeed_o it_o be_v be_v we_o not_o then_o much_o more_o safe_a i_o say_v nothing_o of_o unwritten_a tradition_n which_o come_v not_o short_a for_o authority_n even_o of_o the_o write_a word_n itself_o and_o which_o in_o two_o resspect_n seem_v even_o to_o surpass_v it_o one_o respect_n be_v that_o tradition_n extend_v themselves_o to_o more_o thing_n than_o the_o write_a word_n and_o even_o to_o the_o authorise_a &_o expound_v of_o the_o same_o for_o by_o tradition_n we_o receive_v both_o the_o book_n of_o scripture_n &_o understand_v the_o sense_n thereof_o the_o other_o that_o they_o be_v less_o subject_n to_o the_o cut_a knife_n of_o haeretique_n which_o make_v they_o so_o mad_a at_o they_o for_o they_o can_v so_o corrupt_v they_o by_o put_v in_o and_o out_o at_o their_o pleasure_n as_o they_o can_v do_v the_o write_a word_n and_o this_o indeed_o seem_v the_o safe_a way_n in_o vincentius_n lerinensis_n his_o day_n for_o he_o be_v desirous_a to_o learn_v how_o he_o may_v discern_v catholic_a truth_n from_o haeretical_a falsehood_n receive_v this_o answer_n from_o every_o body_n as_o he_o say_v that_o if_o he_o will_v avoid_v the_o deceit_n and_o snare_n of_o haeretique_n and_o remain_v sound_a in_o faith_n he_o shall_v strengthen_v his_o faith_n two_o way_n to_o wit_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o divine_a law_n and_o then_o by_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n whereby_o you_o see_v the_o judgement_n of_o antiquity_n concern_v your_o safety_n and_o we_o 3._o again_o you_o say_v it_o be_v safe_a to_o adore_v christ_n sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o his_o father_n then_o to_o adore_v the_o sacramental_a bread_n i_o ask_v how_o you_o prove_v it_o for_o say_v i_o again_o it_o be_v as_o dangerous_a to_o deny_v adoration_n to_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n as_o to_o christ_n in_o heaven_n for_o he_o be_v as_o sure_o in_o the_o sacrament_n as_o in_o heaven_n the_o same_o catholic_a faith_n teach_v we_o both_o veritye_n and_o to_o make_v you_o study_v a_o little_a i_o may_v say_v in_o some_o sort_n more_o sure_a for_o a_o man_n that_o will_v be_v contentious_a may_v deny_v christ_n to_o sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o his_o father_n because_o his_o father_n have_v neither_o right_a nor_o left_a hand_n wherein_o for_o answer_v you_o must_v fall_v to_o expound_v the_o scripture_n and_o declare_v the_o meaning_n of_o that_o article_n which_o say_v it_o and_o therein_o you_o shall_v find_v as_o much_o to_o do_v as_o we_o do_v in_o expound_v the_o word_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_n meum_fw-la beside_o do_v not_o we_o adore_v he_o in_o heaven_n too_o as_o well_o as_o you_o how_o be_v you_o more_o safe_a than_o we_o yea_o but_o you_o will_v say_v that_o we_o adore_v he_o on_o the_o altar_n too_o it_o be_v true_a we_o do_v indeed_o and_o to_o suppose_v it_o doubtful_a for_o the_o present_a whether_o he_o be_v there_o or_o no_o i_o ask_v wherein_o be_v you_o more_o safe_a than_o we_o if_o he_o be_v not_o there_o we_o be_v in_o danger_n of_o adore_v he_o where_o he_o be_v not_o if_o he_o be_v there_o then_o be_v you_o in_o danger_n by_o not_o adore_v he_o where_o he_o be_v and_o it_o be_v as_o much_o danger_n not_o to_o adore_v he_o there_o if_o he_o be_v there_o as_o not_o to_o adore_v he_o in_o heaven_n wherein_o i_o say_v then_o be_v you_o more_o safe_a though_o there_o be_v no_o more_o certainty_n of_o belief_n on_o our_o side_n then_o you_o 4._o three_o you_o tell_v we_o out_o of_o s._n aug._n it_o be_v more_o safe_a to_o trust_v whole_o in_o god_n then_o partly_o in_o god_n partly_o in_o ourselves_o so_o we_o say_v also_o and_o so_o we_o do_v wherein_o then_o be_v you_o more_o or_o we_o less_o safe_a you_o say_v we_o trust_v in_o our_o good_a work_n it_o be_v true_a thus_o far_o that_o we_o teach_v that_o man_n by_o good_a work_n may_v cooperate_v to_o justification_n merit_v grace_n and_o glory_n but_o that_o be_v but_o conditional_o if_o a_o man_n do_v such_o good_a work_n but_o yet_o we_o be_v far_o from_o nourish_v your_o confidence_n which_o you_o speak_v of_o which_o be_v not_o ground_v so_o much_o in_o that_o general_a principle_n of_o good_a work_n as_o in_o the_o particular_a that_o i_o for_o example_n do_v these_o and_o these_o good_a work_n wherefore_o i_o say_v it_o be_v false_a in_o your_o sense_n for_o we_o do_v not_o teach_v any_o man_n to_o persuade_v himself_o that_o he_o be_v just_a and_o holy_a but_o teach_v he_o to_o fear_n and_o doubt_v himself_o continual_o and_o in_o all_o his_o work_n according_a to_o the_o example_n of_o job._n verebar_fw-la omne_fw-la opera_fw-la mea_fw-la i_o do_v fear_v all_o my_o work_n and_o if_o a_o man_n do_v good_a work_n we_o teach_v that_o he_o can_v be_v sure_a that_o they_o be_v good_a as_o they_o be_v do_v by_o he_o that_o be_v that_o he_o do_v they_o with_o such_o a_o right_a intention_n and_o by_o help_n of_o supernatural_a grace_n and_o that_o therefore_o no_o man_n can_v be_v sure_a of_o his_o own_o justification_n according_a to_o that_o alsoe_o of_o job._n 9.28_o job_n 9.28_o etsi_fw-la fuero_fw-la simplex_fw-la hoc_fw-la ipsum_fw-la ignorabit_fw-la anima_fw-la mea_fw-la although_o i_o shall_v be_v simple_a that_o be_v good_a the_o self_n same_o shall_v my_o soul_n be_v ignorant_a of_o 9.21_o job_n 9.21_o again_o we_o say_v
the_o doctrine_n of_o justification_n and_o doctrine_n of_o merit_n as_o they_o be_v deliver_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n every_o catholic_a be_v bind_v to_o give_v his_o life_n as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n whereas_o he_o ask_v whether_o any_o of_o these_o 33._o be_v canonize_v for_o it_o it_o be_v a_o idle_a question_n for_o man_n be_v canonize_v not_o for_o matter_n of_o belief_n only_o but_o for_o practice_v of_o faith_n hope_n charity_n and_o all_o virtue_n together_o which_o belong_v to_o a_o holy_a and_o christian_a life_n in_o general_a and_o to_o their_o own_o particular_a state_n and_o vocation_n and_o though_o there_o be_v no_o special_a mention_n of_o any_o of_o those_o 33._o their_o adoration_n of_o image_n yet_o define_v which_o before_o be_v not_o and_o which_o then_o man_n be_v not_o so_o certain_a of_o nor_o so_o bind_v to_o believe_v as_o after_o so_o consequent_o man_n may_v be_v less_o bind_v to_o suffer_v death_n for_o it_o then_o then_o afterward_o and_o yet_o be_v of_o the_o same_o faith_n with_o those_o that_o come_v after_o so_o long_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o church_n and_o live_v in_o the_o unity_n thereof_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o power_n and_o authority_n to_o determine_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v certain_a those_o ancient_a martyr_n do_v as_o appear_v both_o by_o their_o own_o writing_n yet_o extant_a and_o their_o deed_n record_v by_o other_o man_n in_o good_a authentical_a history_n these_o holy_a martyr_n therefore_o be_v true_o we_o which_o if_o this_o knight_n will_v disprove_v he_o must_v show_v which_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v otherwise_o that_o be_v against_o that_o uhich_v we_o now_o believe_v which_o till_o he_o can_v do_v we_o shall_v still_o be_v in_o possession_n of_o our_o martyr_n and_o of_o their_o faith_n our_o faith_n testify_v that_o we_o be_v their_o child_n and_o their_o blood_n give_v testimony_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o faith_n of_o the_o 17._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 17._o chap._n 17._o our_o adversary_n common_a objection_n draw_v from_o the_o charitable_a opinion_n of_o protestant_n touch_v the_o salvation_n of_o profess_a romanist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o their_o church_n answer_v chapter_n xvii_o 1._o this_o section_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o natural_a language_n and_o therefore_o will_v soon_o be_v answer_v he_o begin_v with_o a_o say_n of_o costerus_n that_o a_o man_n die_v a_o lutheran_n can_v be_v save_v whereupon_o he_o fall_v in_o to_o a_o great_a rage_n against_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v a_o woman_n a_o church_n a_o city_n which_o reign_v over_o the_o king_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o have_v multitude_n of_o nation_n at_o her_o command_n but_o he_o thank_v god_n his_o church_n be_v not_o such_o a_o one_o neither_o do_v protestans_fw-la as_o he_o say_v account_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o their_o church_n and_o from_o thence_o he_o fall_v to_o reckon_v up_o diverse_a particular_a point_n of_o his_o church_n doctrine_n as_o disclaim_v of_o merit_n communion_n in_o both_o kind_n read_v of_o scripture_n and_o bring_v a_o place_n of_o scripture_n for_o each_o of_o these_o he_o ask_v very_o rhetorical_o after_o every_o one_o whether_o they_o be_v accurse_v for_o hold_v they_o and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n ask_v whether_o we_o can_v be_v bless_v that_o forbid_v marriage_n &_o meat_n that_o have_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n adore_v image_n adore_v saint_n adore_v the_o element_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n we_o that_o add_v tradition_n to_o the_o scripture_n and_o detract_v from_o god_n commandment_n and_o christ_n institution_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o discourse_n of_o his_o be_v so_o foolish_a as_o it_o be_v a_o man_n may_v think_v it_o folly_n for_o i_o to_o stand_v answer_v particular_o therefore_o i_o answer_v brief_o and_o in_o general_a first_o that_o though_o it_o take_v up_o half_a his_o section_n yet_o it_o be_v whole_o from_o his_o purpose_n which_o he_o pretend_v by_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o objection_n second_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o he_o object_v unto_o we_o they_o be_v all_o answer_v before_o and_o prove_v some_o false_a for_o the_o thing_n wherewith_o he_o charge_v we_o all_o absurd_a if_o we_o consider_v the_o proof_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v for_o example_n he_o tell_v we_o we_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n both_o which_o be_v most_o gross_o false_a for_o how_o many_o catholic_n be_v there_o in_o england_n man_n and_o woman_n marry_v and_o what_o meat_n be_v there_o that_o catholic_n be_v forbid_v to_o eat_v in_o due_a time_n and_o season_n be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n to_o some_o man_n to_o wit_n such_o as_o have_v voluntary_o promise_v the_o contrary_a and_o some_o meat_n at_o some_o time_n all_o one_o i_o say_v as_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n neither_o marriage_n nor_o meat_n be_v forbid_v in_o these_o case_n as_o ill_o in_o themselves_o in_o which_o sense_n only_o saint_n paul_n term_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n but_o for_o high_a end_n but_o to_o make_v he_o yet_o a_o little_a more_o capable_a of_o this_o answer_n i_o will_v urge_v he_o with_o one_o ordinary_a instance_n which_o be_v this_o i_o presume_v his_o father_n have_v some_o apprentice_n bind_v not_o to_o marry_v during_o his_o apprenticeship_n i_o will_v then_o know_v of_o he_o whither_o his_o father_n in_o that_o case_n do_v forbid_v marriage_n and_o teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n 2._o against_o prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n he_o say_v it_o be_v write_v with_o man_n of_o other_o tongue_n and_o other_o lip_n will_v i_o speak_v unto_o this_o people_n and_o so_o they_o shall_v not_o hear_v i_o and_o in_o the_o margin_n say_v it_o be_v a_o curse_n at_o the_o build_n of_o babel_n for_o they_o that_o understand_v not_o what_o be_v speak_v but_o by_o this_o allege_v of_o scripture_n a_o man_n may_v see_v what_o a_o good_a thing_n it_o be_v to_o have_v it_o in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n for_o every_o man_n to_o read_v and_o abuse_v it_o at_o his_o pleasure_n when_o such_o a_o right_n learned_a man_n as_o this_o knight_n do_v so_o strange_o apply_v it_o he_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v esay_n the_o prophet_n speak_v against_o latin_a in_o this_o place_n but_o the_o man_n be_v quite_o wide_a of_o his_o mark_n but_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o he_o that_o there_o be_v mention_n of_o a_o strange_a tongue_n there_o for_o as_o for_o the_o sense_n he_o care_v not_o or_o rather_o his_o read_n reach_v not_o to_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o place_n which_o be_v but_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o people_n laugh_v at_o the_o prophet_n that_o come_v to_o they_o with_o command_n from_o god_n repeat_v their_o word_n scoff_o manda_fw-la remanda_fw-fr 28.11_o isa_n 28.11_o expecta_fw-la reexpecta_fw-la etc._n etc._n god_n send_v they_o word_n by_o the_o prophet_n that_o because_o they_o will_v not_o hear_v those_o word_n nor_o follow_v the_o good_a counsel_n which_o he_o give_v he_o will_v speak_v another_o word_n unto_o they_o that_o they_o shall_v fall_v &_o be_v catch_v crush_v and_o carry_v into_o captivity_n and_o there_o hear_v a_o language_n which_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v this_o be_v the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n of_o the_o prophet_n s._n paul_n indeed_o use_v it_o in_o another_o sense_n to_o persuade_v the_o corinthian_n that_o prophecy_n be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o tongue_n because_o as_o he_o say_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n be_v a_o sign_n for_o infidel_n that_o be_v to_o speak_v to_o infidel_n for_o their_o conversion_n but_o prophecy_n that_o be_v exhortation_n or_o interpretation_n be_v for_o the_o faithful_a or_o those_o that_o believe_v already_o wherein_o i_o will_v know_v according_a to_o either_o explication_n what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v against_o prayer_n in_o the_o latin_a tongue_n and_o for_o the_o tower_n of_o babel_n the_o knight_n sure_o speak_v by_o contrary_n for_o whereas_o at_o babel_n man_n fall_v from_o unity_n of_o language_n to_o speak_v every_o man_n a_o several_a language_n so_o as_o no_o one_o man_n understand_v one_o another_o &_o by_o that_o mean_v they_o be_v all_o disperse_v into_o several_a nation_n the_o catholic_a church_n do_v quite_o contrary_a draw_v several_a nation_n to_o unity_n of_o language_n make_v all_o to_o speak_v one_o and_o the_o sâ—me_a tongue_n whereas_o haeretique_n in_o several_a place_n by_o use_n of_o other_o language_n understand_v not_o one_o the_o other_o and_o therein_o most_o perfect_o resemble_v the_o babel-builder_n as_o well_o in_o the_o very_a diversity_n of_o tongue_n as_o in_o the_o diversity_n of_o
that_o 2._o ap._n suar._n 3._o p._n to_o 3._o disp_n 49._o sect._n 2._o non_fw-la est_fw-la attendendum_fw-la ad_fw-la naturam_fw-la eorum_fw-la quae_fw-la videntur_fw-la sed_fw-la credendum_fw-la mutationi_fw-la quae_fw-la hîc_fw-la fit_a ex_fw-la gratia_fw-la we_o must_v not_o consider_v the_o nature_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v see_v but_o believe_v the_o change_n which_o be_v here_o make_v by_o grace_n as_o also_o that_o other_o place_n where_o he_o note_v it_o for_o a_o haeresy_n spring_v up_o among_o the_o grecian_n of_o some_o that_o do_v deny_v the_o eucharist_n to_o be_v the_o flesh_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n eucharistiam_fw-la &_o oblationes_fw-la non_fw-la admittunt_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la confiteantur_fw-la eucharistiam_fw-la esse_fw-la carnem_fw-la saluatoris_fw-la nostri_fw-la jesv_n christi_fw-la but_o not_o to_o stand_v long_o upon_o it_o 1._o dialog_n 3._o ut_fw-la habeatur_fw-la ap_fw-mi suar._n 3._o p._n to_o 3._o disp_n 46._o sect_n 1._o here_o be_v enough_o i_o trow_v to_o make_v it_o evident_a that_o theodoret_n in_o this_o point_n agree_v with_o other_o father_n and_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n 30._o and_o so_o much_o for_o these_o two_o father_n s._n aug._n and_o theodoret_n which_o be_v the_o only_a ancient_a author_n it_o seem_v you_o can_v find_v of_o yourself_o but_o because_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n think_v there_o be_v more_o for_o you_o and_o that_o our_o author_n acknowledge_v so_o much_o i_o must_v examine_v what_o you_o say_v out_o of_o cusanus_fw-la for_o that_o purpose_n for_o he_o be_v the_o only_a author_n which_o you_o here_o bring_v thus_o than_o you_o say_v their_o learned_a cusanus_fw-la be_v not_o so_o reserve_v in_o his_o opinion_n of_o the_o father_n he_o speakeht_v plain_o and_o open_o that_o certain_a of_o the_o ancient_a divine_n be_v find_v of_o this_o mind_n that_o the_o bread_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o transubstantiate_v or_o change_v in_o nature_n but_o remain_v still_o and_o be_v clothe_v with_o another_o substance_n more_o noble_a than_o itself_o so_o cusanus_fw-la as_o you_o cite_v he_o whereby_o you_o will_v make_v it_o seem_v as_o if_o cusanus_fw-la teach_v the_o father_n to_o be_v against_o transubstantiation_n and_o even_o as_o if_o it_o be_v cusanus_fw-la his_o own_a opinion_n for_o though_o you_o do_v not_o say_v it_o express_o yet_o you_o allege_v he_o in_o such_o manner_n that_o any_o man_n will_v think_v it_o but_o in_o this_o you_o play_v your_o part_n as_o you_o be_v wont_a to_o do_v for_o first_o where_o do_v cusanus_fw-la speak_v one_o word_n of_o the_o father_n he_o speak_v indeed_o of_o some_o ancient_a divine_n but_o of_o father_n not_o a_o word_n this_o then_o be_v false_a which_o you_o say_v that_o cusanus_fw-la be_v not_o so_o reserve_v in_o his_o opinion_n of_o the_o father_n see_v he_o be_v so_o reserve_v as_o not_o once_o to_o name_v they_o second_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v of_o certain_a ancient_a divine_n it_o be_v true_a cusanus_fw-la have_v somewhat_o to_o that_o purpose_n but_o not_o just_a as_o you_o say_v for_o these_o be_v his_o word_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la intelligeret_fw-la panem_fw-la non_fw-la transubstantiari_fw-la sed_fw-la superuestiri_fw-la nobiliori_fw-la substantia_fw-la prout_fw-la quidam_fw-la veteres_fw-la theologi_fw-la intellexisse_fw-la reperiuntur_fw-la qui_fw-la dicebant_fw-la non_fw-la solum_fw-la panem_fw-la sed_fw-la &_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la esse_fw-la in_o sacramento_n etc._n etc._n if_o any_o man_n shall_v understand_v the_o bread_n not_o to_o be_v transubstantiate_v but_o to_o be_v overclothe_v with_o a_o more_o noble_a substance_n as_o some_o ancient_a divine_n be_v find_v to_o have_v understand_v who_o say_v that_o not_o only_a bread_n but_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n which_o last_o word_n of_o christ_n real_a presence_n in_o the_o sacrament_n you_o leave_v out_o because_o they_o make_v as_o much_o or_o more_o against_o yourself_o than_o the_o former_a of_o the_o remain_v of_o bread_n against_o us._n but_o for_o the_o ancient_a divine_n you_o need_v not_o have_v go_v so_o far_o as_o cusanus_fw-la you_o may_v have_v their_o name_n and_o error_n in_o our_o late_a schoolman_n 4._o suar._n disp_n 49._o sect_n 2_o 3_o 4._o three_o concern_v cusanus_fw-la his_fw-la own_o opinion_n there_o can_v be_v nothing_o more_o manifest_a than_o his_o true_a &_o constant_a belief_n of_o transubstantiation_n 446._o excit_fw-la lib._n 6._o edit_n basâ—â—_n 1565._o pag._n 522._o lib._n 4._o p._n 446._o in_o this_o very_a place_n he_o say_v ita_fw-la manent_fw-la accidentia_fw-la ut_fw-la prius_fw-la sed_fw-la substantia_fw-la conversa_fw-la est_fw-la the_o accident_n remain_v as_o before_o but_o the_o substance_n be_v change_v and_o in_o another_o place_n huius_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la institutio_fw-la ita_fw-la facta_fw-la est_fw-la per_fw-la christum_fw-la quod_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o vinum_fw-la in_o sanguinem_fw-la convertitur_fw-la pro_fw-la esca_fw-la spirituali_fw-la sub_fw-la speciebus_fw-la sensibilibus_fw-la the_o institution_n of_o this_o sacrament_n be_v so_o make_v by_o christ_n that_o the_o bread_n be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o wine_n into_o his_o blood_n for_o spiritual_a food_n under_o the_o sensible_a species_n or_o accident_n and_o there_o he_o go_v on_o with_o a_o large_a &_o excellent_a discourse_n express_v all_o thing_n now_o in_o controversy_n as_o transubstantiation_n i_o mean_v the_o very_a word_n concomitancy_n the_o efficacy_n of_o the_o very_a word_n christ_n manner_n of_o presence_n whole_a in_o the_o whole_a host_n &_o whole_a in_o every_o part_n thereof_o illustrate_v and_o prove_v all_o by_o reason_n and_o example_n of_o natural_a thing_n and_o this_o not_o brief_o or_o in_o one_o place_n only_o but_o so_o large_o &_o in_o so_o many_o place_n as_o a_o man_n by_o only_o open_v the_o book_n without_o a_o index_n may_v present_o find_v enough_o to_o show_v his_o catholic_a belief_n &_o confute_v your_o error_n what_o strange_a malice_n and_o boldness_n than_o be_v this_o sir_n humphrey_n so_o to_o lead_v your_o reader_n into_o tentation_n by_o make_v he_o believe_v cusanus_fw-la be_v for_o you_o i_o omit_v to_o note_v your_o ignorance_n in_o cite_v cusanus_fw-la his_o book_n exercit_fw-la that_o be_v either_o exercitiorum_fw-la or_o exercitationum_fw-la whereas_o he_o have_v no_o such_o work_n but_o excitationum_fw-la which_o by_o your_o great_a ignorance_n every_o where_o show_v i_o have_v good_a reason_n to_o think_v not_o to_o be_v the_o printer_n fault_n but_o you_o but_o here_o be_v a_o end_n with_o cusanus_fw-la in_o who_o you_o have_v no_o refuge_n more_o than_o you_o have_v in_o the_o father_n 31._o now_o then_o have_v do_v with_o scripture_n and_o father_n you_o come_v to_o the_o schoolman_n tell_v we_o that_o scotus_n teach_v that_o before_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n transubstantiation_n be_v not_o believe_v as_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n which_o bellarmine_n disallow_v in_o he_o &_o suarez_n say_v that_o the_o schoolman_n which_o teach_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o very_o ancient_a be_v to_o be_v correct_v such_o as_o scotus_n be_v of_o durand_n you_o say_v that_o in_o like_a manner_n he_o &_o some_o of_o his_o fellow_n schoolman_n after_o he_o profess_v open_o that_o the_o material_a part_n or_o substance_n of_o the_o sacramental_a bread_n be_v not_o convert_v but_o that_o bellarmine_n condemn_v this_o doctrine_n for_o heretical_a yet_o excuse_v durand_n from_o be_v a_o haeretique_n because_o he_o be_v ready_a to_o submit_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n then_o let_v pass_v wickliff_n and_o the_o waldense_n you_o say_v our_o own_o proctor_n osiensis_n and_o gaufridus_n tell_v you_o that_o there_o be_v other_o in_o those_o day_n who_o teach_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n do_v remain_v and_o this_o opinion_n say_v they_o as_o you_o cite_v they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v reject_v last_o to_o come_v to_o this_o last_o age_n you_o say_v tonstall_n think_v it_o have_v be_v better_a to_o leave_v every_o man_n to_o his_o own_o conjecture_n for_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n whether_o it_o be_v by_o transubstantiation_n or_o otherwise_o as_o it_o be_v before_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n and_o erasmus_n say_v it_o be_v define_v but_o of_o late_a by_o the_o church_n these_o be_v all_o your_o author_n and_o your_o whole_a discourse_n out_o of_o schoolman_n 32._o to_o which_o i_o say_v first_o for_o scotus_n that_o i_o have_v sufficient_o answer_v that_o of_o he_o before_o in_o answer_v the_o testimony_n of_o yribarre_v his_o scholar_n 24._o sup._n hoc_fw-la §._o n._n 24._o where_o i_o show_v that_o he_o mean_v not_o so_o much_o of_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o doctrine_n for_o he_o acknowledge_v the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n and_o blood_n as_o either_o of_o the_o
word_n transubstantiation_n or_o of_o the_o proof_n thereof_o by_o determine_v the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n and_o this_o it_o may_v be_v be_v it_o wherein_o tonstall_n also_o follow_v he_o if_o they_o mean_v otherwise_o the_o matter_n be_v not_o great_a for_o one_o single_a author_n or_o two_o contradict_v by_o other_o carry_v no_o credit_n with_o we_o in_o matter_n of_o belief_n though_o to_o say_v true_o tonstall_n be_v no_o schooleman_n but_o a_o canonist_n as_o cardinal_n pole_n answer_v he_o very_o well_o by_o letter_n upon_o another_o certain_a occasion_n wherein_o he_o do_v swerve_v from_o the_o rule_n of_o true_a divinity_n as_o i_o have_v see_v by_o the_o letter_n of_o both_o in_o both_o their_o own_o hand_n erasmus_n be_v no_o author_n to_o be_v answer_v nor_o name_v as_o you_o know_v i_o have_v often_o tell_v you_o 33._o for_o the_o waldense_n and_o wickliff_n you_o do_v well_o to_o let_v they_o pass_v but_o the_o very_a name_n of_o they_o show_v you_o have_v a_o good_a mind_n to_o fill_v out_o your_o number_n of_o schoolman_n with_o they_o though_o for_o the_o waldense_n i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o they_o agree_v with_o you_o much_o in_o this_o point_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n for_o they_o have_v mass_n but_o once_o a_o year_n &_o that_o upon_o maundy_n thursday_n neither_o will_v they_o use_v the_o word_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o 7._o pater_fw-la noster_n with_o a_o blessing_n over_o the_o bread_n whereas_o you_o may_v have_v your_o communion_n often_o and_o you_o use_v the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n not_o 7._o pater_n as_o they_o do_v but_o what_o need_v i_o say_v more_o of_o they_o or_o the_o wickliffist_n either_o be_v know_v condemn_v haeretique_n 34._o now_o for_o durand_n he_o be_v a_o schoolman_n indeed_o and_o a_o learned_a one_o but_o yet_o not_o whole_o free_a from_o error_n in_o some_o point_n and_o particular_o in_o this_o of_o the_o change_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n for_o he_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o change_n in_o this_o sacrament_n be_v no_o other_o than_o as_o the_o natural_a change_n of_o other_o substance_n one_o into_o another_o 3._o durand_n 4._o do_v 11._o q._n 3._o and_o that_o it_o be_v supernatural_a only_o for_o the_o manner_n because_o it_o be_v do_v in_o a_o instant_n and_o without_o the_o concurrence_n of_o natural_a cause_n and_o that_o as_o in_o these_o natural_a change_n of_o the_o element_n one_o into_o another_o or_o other_o mix_v body_n the_o form_n only_o be_v change_v the_o material_a part_n or_o subject_n as_o philosopher_n speak_v remain_v still_o the_o same_o so_o also_o that_o here_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n be_v change_v only_o the_o matter_n or_o material_a part_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n remain_v which_o yet_o he_o think_v to_o be_v sufficient_a to_o verify_v not_o only_o the_o realnes_n of_o christ_n presence_n but_o also_o the_o conversion_n of_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n for_o to_o that_o purpose_n he_o have_v these_o two_o express_a conclusion_n 1._o 4._o do_v 10._o q._n 1._o dicendum_fw-la say_v he_o quod_fw-la verum_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la natum_fw-la de_fw-fr virgin_n &_o passum_fw-la in_o cruse_n est_fw-la realiter_fw-la in_o hoc_fw-la sacramento_n i_o say_v that_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n and_o suffer_v on_o the_o cross_n be_v real_o in_o this_o sacrament_n the_o other_o conclusion_n be_v this_o dicendum_fw-la quod_fw-la substantia_fw-la panis_fw-la &_o vini_fw-la convertuntur_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la 1._o dur._n 4._o do_v 11._o q._n 1._o it_o be_v to_o be_v say_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n whereby_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o hold_v a_o true_a and_o real_a presence_n by_o a_o true_a and_o real_a conversion_n of_o the_o bread_n or_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n discover_v also_o therein_o your_o cunning_a and_o delude_a corruption_n whereby_o you_o will_v make_v it_o seem_v to_o your_o reader_n that_o these_o two_o be_v all_o one_o the_o material_a part_n of_o bread_n and_o substance_n of_o bread_n for_o so_o in_o the_o citation_n of_o durand_n sentence_n you_o gloss_n the_o word_n material_a part_n with_o this_o parenthesis_n of_o your_o own_o or_o substance_n whereas_o the_o material_a part_n of_o bread_n and_o substance_n of_o bread_n be_v two_o thing_n for_o the_o matter_n in_o every_o compound_n be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o substance_n and_o the_o absolute_a denomination_n of_o such_o a_o specifical_a substance_n do_v not_o belong_v even_o to_o the_o form_n itself_o alone_o though_o it_o be_v the_o more_o noble_a and_o more_o essential_a part_n much_o less_o to_o the_o matter_n or_o material_a part_n for_o we_o do_v not_o say_v the_o form_n of_o fire_n or_o water_n be_v fire_n or_o water_n but_o it_o be_v that_o which_o give_v the_o be_v of_o fire_n or_o water_n to_o the_o material_a part_n or_o matter_n which_o of_o itself_o be_v so_o far_o from_o have_v any_o such_o denomination_n as_o some_o philosopher_n do_v scarce_o give_v it_o any_o proper_a be_v of_o it_o own_o or_o even_o the_o common_a name_n of_o ens_fw-la and_o all_o agree_v that_o it_o have_v no_o quality_n no_o active_a power_n nor_o force_n of_o itself_o to_o do_v any_o thing_n as_o be_v but_o a_o mere_a passive_a power_n 35._o wherefore_o though_o the_o matter_n of_o bread_n shall_v remain_v in_o this_o conversion_n or_o change_n yet_o can_v not_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n be_v say_v to_o remain_v so_o long_o as_o the_o form_n be_v change_v no_o more_o than_o all_o the_o bread_n and_o meat_n which_o you_o eat_v may_v be_v say_v to_o remain_v because_o the_o material_a part_n of_o all_o the_o bread_n beef_n mutton_n capon_n pheazant_n and_o whatsoever_o else_o you_o eat_v remain_v unconuert_v which_o as_o it_o be_v a_o great_a absurdity_n in_o any_o man_n to_o affirm_v so_o be_v it_o as_o great_a a_o one_o in_o you_o to_o affirm_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n in_o this_o sacrament_n shall_v not_o be_v convert_v though_o the_o material_a part_n shall_v remain_v for_o as_o the_o only_a change_n of_o the_o form_n in_o all_o natural_a conversion_n be_v sufficient_a to_o verify_v that_o this_o thing_n be_v change_v into_o that_o for_o example_n fire_n into_o water_n so_o may_v it_o be_v in_o this_o for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o truth_n of_o that_o manner_n of_o speak_v which_o i_o only_o urge_v in_o durand_n defence_n not_o that_o i_o allow_v his_o doctrine_n for_o this_o be_v his_o very_a reason_n why_o he_o do_v hold_v that_o opinion_n because_o he_o think_v it_o sufficient_a to_o verify_v not_o only_o the_o real_a presence_n but_o even_a transubstantiation_n also_o which_o very_o word_n he_o use_v in_o another_o place_n for_o make_v answer_n to_o a_o certain_a objection_n draw_v out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o s._n john_n damascen_n wherein_o that_o father_n say_v that_o the_o nature_n of_o bread_n be_v assume_v by_o christ_n as_o if_o by_o that_o manner_n of_o speak_v he_o shall_v seem_v to_o insinuate_v that_o the_o bread_n remain_v the_o same_o in_o nature_n be_v hypostatical_o unite_v to_o christ_n durand_n say_v thus_o 1._o durand_n in_o 4._o do_v 10â—_o q._n 1._o sicut_fw-la in_o baptismate_fw-la aqua_fw-la assumitur_fw-la ut_fw-la materia_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la permanens_fw-la sic_fw-la panis_fw-la &_o vinum_fw-la assumuntur_fw-la ut_fw-la materia_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la tranfiens_fw-la quia_fw-la materia_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la convertitur_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o per_fw-la consequens_fw-la dicitur_fw-la aliquo_fw-la modo_fw-la uniri_fw-la divinitati_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la assumptionem_fw-la manente_fw-la natura_fw-la panis_fw-la aut_fw-la vini_fw-la sed_fw-la per_fw-la transubstantiationem_fw-la in_o humanitatem_fw-la priùs_fw-la assumptam_fw-la as_o in_o baptism_n water_n be_v assume_v as_o the_o permanent_a matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n so_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v assume_v as_o the_o transient_a or_o pass_a matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n because_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o by_o consequence_n be_v say_v in_o some_o sort_n to_o be_v unite_v to_o the_o divinity_n not_o by_o assumption_n or_o hypostatical_a union_n the_o nature_n of_o the_o bread_n or_o wine_n remain_v but_o by_o transubstantiation_n into_o the_o humanity_n before_o assumpt_v which_o word_n declare_v his_o opinion_n both_o full_o and_o plain_o of_o the_o change_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o this_o sacrament_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n by_o transubstantiation_n 36._o but_o howsoever_o he_o fail_v in_o declare_v this_o transubstantiation_n in_o that_o he_o take_v not_o the_o whole_a substance_n of_o the_o bread_n to_o