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A00637 A counter-poyson modestly written for the time, to make aunswere to the obiections and reproches, wherewith the aunswerer to the Abstract, would disgrace the holy discipline of Christ. Fenner, Dudley, 1558?-1587, attributed name.; Stoughton, William, fl. 1584, attributed name.; Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624, attributed name. 1584 (1584) STC 10770; ESTC S101936 77,534 204

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forme of Ecclesiasticall Gouernment prescribed by the Word of God and perpetuall for all ages FOR as much as the purpose of this treatise is with all modesty and peace to giue cleare euidence to the trueth it was thought fittest for the cause and most profitable for the Christian Reader to set downe vnder certaine heades the seuerall assertions and reasons which are here and there scatteringly inforced by the answere to the Abstract against the seuerall braunches of the holye gouernement which Christ Jesus hath asigned for the ordinarie policie of his Church Amongest which that requireth the firste place which is the grounde of all the rest concerning the certaine forme of gouernement which he hath prescribed for his Church His wordes be these I doe therefore say and offer in the name of the learned to him or other to consider of that it is taken by vs for an vndoubted trueth the contrary whereof by no proofe we doe assure our selues can bee shewed that there are not set downe in perticuler by Scripture or by necessarie collection to be gathered all circumstaunces of pollicie gouernement Discipline and ceremonies necessary and vniformally to bee vsed in euery seuerall Church and that the Christian Magistrates and gouernours are not in the sayd former points wherof somthing is touched in Scripture of necessitie tyed to that precise forme that is there set downe but to the generall Doctrine concerning them to wit that al be done to edifying orderlye comely and such like page 33. And againe asking whether all reformed Churches are disciplinated alike he sayth Nay they neyther are can be nor yet neede so to be seeing it cannot be prooued that any set exact perticuler forme thereof is recommended to vs by the Worde of God pag. 58. And againe pag. 60. To the former assertion he addeth this reason For else how could the Primitiue Church without any prescript word I doe not onely say haue brought in a newe ceremonie but haue altered the Sabboth day by God appoynted at the first and being our Satterday to the first day of the week in the Scripture twise or thrise called the Lordes day and with vs Sunday or yet the time of receiuing the Sacrament of the Eucharist being according to the institution vsually receiued after Supper to haue it receiued as it is in the morning fasting In which assertions there is so little plaine dealing and so much vntruth as of y ● one side they sauour of subtletie so on the other side they haue very smale taste of sound diuinitie For first when as the Question was of Discipline to be administred as the Lorde commaunded that is of the substantiall forme of Christes gouernement he carieth it to the ceremonies and circumstances of Discipline as if when the Apostle commaundeth to keepe the forme of wholesome doctrine one should aunswere it is not certaine because the circumstances rites times of it are variable Which also casteth a strong sent of the Romishe practize who to make a way to their additions and detractions in the matter of the Sacrament and otherwise flie vnto the circumstances of time number persons and such like Test Rem in annot John 6. verse 58. the which they say the Church may alter and chaunge The second subtletie is that when the state of the question is propoūded as that which is the difference betweene vs the verye poynt of it is so obscurely and doubtfully set down as one can hardly attaine vnto his meaning For when he saith the Magistrates are not in y e sayde former points tyed to the precise forme c. He leaueth it doubtfull whether by points are ment the particular circumstaunces of policy gouernment discipline and ceremonies which if they be he commeth no nearer the questions then thinges variable to thinges certaine and vnchangeable or whether he meaneth the thinges themselues to wit policie gouernment discipline which if he do then he is become an ouerturner of all the assertions of former diuines whatsoeuer For then if the Magistrate think it for order and comelines Ecclesiasticall censure shall be administred by ciuill persons layemen as he speaketh men may be excommunicated before they be summoned in a priuate corner not in the Congregation then the Magistrat may cause the Deacons forme to become the forme of the Bishop and the Biships forme the form of a Deacon Finally then the seuerall members of Christes bodye their formes and specificall differences maye be altered and changed as seemeth good vnto men then Princes maye ordayne Bishops as Bishoppes sometimes annoynt Princes Finally then the soueraigne Magistrates may them selues become Ecclesiasticall officers and Church-ministers which at once vndermineth not onelye the Church-discipline of God which we require to bee exact according to God his worde but also euen the formall destinction of offices censures and matters Ecclesiasticall which all other Churches and euen ours haue established are made arbitrarie and changeable seeing they are not tyed to the precise forme of these things It is palpable darknesse also which hee sayth that all Churches are not disciplinated alike because anye set and exact particuler forme thereof is not commended vnto vs in God his worde Which if he meane of the set forme of ecclesiastical gouernment all reformed churches acknowledge it either haue it or seek it and distinguish it in al their writings from the variable ceremonies or circumstances of the same as appeareth by y e places quoted in the margent if he meane it of circūstances of places times numbers and such like he calleth that to question which none euer made doubt of Nowe besides this confusion in propounding the Question the reasons of the assertion are full of vntrueth First the allegation of y e alteration of y ● Saboth borowed from y ● Jesuits annot Apo. 1. 10 sauing y ● thei haue for shame limitted that which he left at large saying they did it w tout al cōmā-dement of Christ which they read of is not as he setteth downe iustifiable by y e Scriptures namely y ● they did it without prescript cōmandement frō Christ For seeing the Apostles hauing by God his commaundement kept the Jewes Saboth for the weeke gone afore when the time of the alteration of the ceremony of that particuler day was come did for obseruation of the morall commaundement of celebrating one day in seuen ordaine and keepe the next day for the weeke following calling it and making it the Lordes day as the other was the Lordes Saboth it is manifest that when this cannot be altered without breache of the morall proportion of one in seuen that therein they had direction from Christe according to those words Teaching them to keepe what soeuer I commaund you Mat. 28. 20. If it be asked where in the Gospell this is commanded and prescribed of Christ let him shew the like of those which the Apostle speaketh of 1. Cor. 11 2. cap. 14. 37. Concerning the
to conuince any errour And page 3. For the issue ought to haue beene to this effect whether it be simplie vnlawfull that one shold be admitted to minister the Sacramentes which is not sufficiently inabled Orthotomein that is to deuide the Worde of God aright and is also Didacticos Kai elegticos able to teach the truth and conuince errours and to correct sinne to instruct to vertue and good life and to comfort the weake or else whether it be expedient that all the parishes in Englande either not able to susteine such a learned Minister or for the scarsitye of such so wel qualified not able to procure one shoulde be destitute of publique prayer and administration of Sacramentes tyll such a Preacher be procured vnto thē or no And the like page 14. where a little before he hath these wordes If he reply that the Bishop should not then haue made him Minister I reioyne that peraduenture he was none of his making it maye be also that he was fitte for the cure he was appoynted vnto though not so fitte for some other populous Congregation or troublesome people Lastly that if none should be assumed to the ministry but with those especiall indowmentes surely all the learned of all professions in England if they were in the ministery woulde scarce be able thus to supply one tēth part of the parishes Item page 25. Neither are such of them thogh they be no Preachers to bee accounted dumbe and silent who in their Churches do exhort dehort rebuke comfort and also in some degree instruct their parishioners as their ability serueth occasion is offered Which I know they may as profitablye doe as some who of as meane gyfes but of more audacity then they dare take vpon them to expound deuide the Scripture by preaching vppon some text vnto which they in their whole discourse do come iust as neere as Iarmans lippes are sayd to come togeather Page 34. Further if they haue ordayned some of mean ability it hath been in respect of their slender portions of liuing allotted out in moste places for the finding of Ministers which places otherwise should be destitute wholly whereby the people wold be in short tyme become as heathen Painims or be as sauage as the wilde Irish to the great daunger of their soules and hazard of this state Againe page 45. But he is angry also with their bare reading and very peremptorily assureth vs that they shall neuer be instrumentes of the holye Ghoste to woorke fayth in the hearers but he limiteth it with this word ordinarily which he seeketh to establishe by that of Sainct Paule And how shall they heare without a Preacher Truely as it must needes be confessed that the plaine resolution and vnfolding of the Worde in Scripture called Orthotomia the right cutting thereof and the grauing of the due and fitte allotment in season which is perfourmed by discreete and pithie preaching is an ordinarye and the moste excellent meanes to ingender fayth So is it a great errour in diuinitye to thinke that God neuer blesseth the reading or the hearing of his Worde read but extraordinarily for then why is it commaunded that the law of God shoulde be rehearsed continually to our children that we should talke of the commaundementes in oure houses c. That we should meditate therein daye and night that all the daye long our studie should be in his law that we shold search the scriptures Also why was Moses reade in the Synagogues euerye Sabboth day and they of Thessalonica commended for their reading of Scripture conferring it with that they heard shall we saye that so many thousands as in late tyme of persecution were conuerted from idolatry by reading of Scriptures and diuine treatizes obtayned not fayth by ordinarye meanes or that without especiall miracle and by extraordinary working none are saued in this Church of England where the Minister is no publique Preacher and is not the declaring and publishing the Worde in the Mother tongue wherein as Augustine sayeth in those thinges that are playnely set downe is sufficient for fayth and conuersation a kinde of declaration and preaching the Lordes will vnto vs. Page 70. Neither in vaine is preaching spoken off at the firste ordering both to put them in minde what ought to bee their principall indeuour and to giue vs to know that meere laye-men be not inabled to this office so is it not conuenient that a licence to preach be giuen to anye but to such as beeing in some function Ecclesiasticall haue addicted them-selues to serue the Church according to their abilities in all their functions incident to that calling And page 63. and the 4. iniunction addeth here-vnto That if he be lisenced herevnto he shal preach in his owne person at the least euerye quarter of a yeare one Sermon for the which ende the Ordinaries in most places doe requyre of such as be not fitte to be licensed to preach that they procure such dutye to be done by an other which is able to perfourme the same c. Where he asketh whether the meaning of the Parliament were to haue the Bishops Iudge the reading of Homilies to bee preaching it maye bee sayde that reading of Homilies in a strickt signification can not bee accounted preaching yet they serue to edifying and are a kinde of publishing the Lordes will euen as well as a Sermon beeing penned is and vttered foorth to the people Page 121. Truly I wish vnfaynedly that the gifts of Gods spirit were doubled and redoubled vppon all that function yea that all the Lordes people could prophesie Yet can I not without intollerable vnthankfulnes to God great touch of her Maiesties gratious care for the instructing of her people so debase al Ministers abilities which be no Preachers as to say they know not either for what they ought to praye or that the worde of God is the only food to the soul of man Or shal we say that none knoweth any thing nor is able to catechise or to exhort dehort in any resonable measure but he that is a Preacher publikly licēsed seeing it is notorious that euē in the reformed churches of Frāce according to which our men that haue their heades so full of Church-plots would seeme to haue squired out all their frame there be certaine Congregations tollerated where they haue no publike sermons but praiers and certaine exhortations It hath been the hope of al the godlye minded that after the cleare light had shined so gloriously both by zealous preaching and learned writings of many worthy men to the manifest discouery of the vnlawfulnesse of an vnpreaching Ministery so that not onely most of sound religion but also euen the very impugners of this haue after a sort been driuen to an open confession of the same that no man indued with any true care of religion or minding to defend a cause worthy of anye account would once haue aduentured eyther colourably
woorke vvhich tendeth to no other end but that the truth being found we might al ioin togeather in godly peace an holy vnion to serue him ioifully together frō generation to generation The reasons which specially did cause this mater to be taken in hand are either in respect of the substaunce of seuerall points in question or of the time wherin they are brought in question For first considering that the question is not as the aunswerer would beare the world in hād as in publike sermons it is euery day vncharitably vpbraided about trifles things of no vvaight as of variable ceremonies matters of circumstances which yet are to be squared by the sacred Canons of holy Scripture but about matters of no small importance euen of the great and waighty cause of Christes kingdome by vvhat lavves and offices his heritage is to be gouerned protected that is of the whole Discipline of the Church of Christ whether it be to be ordered by the vncertayne and deceiueable waights of humane constitutions or by the infallible Oracles of Gods most holy testimonies And that the aunswerer doth very confidentlye challenge as thogh not only by vs but byal churches reformed in manye writinges verye well knowne he vvere not already aunsvvered that by the worde of God vve vvoulde prooue a certaine gouernement of the Church vnder the time of the Gospell and that this he doth very closlye and colourablie at his pleasure adding to and detracting from the question as in the treatise shall appeare and vvith smooth vvordes and artificial euasions though sometimes vvith more gaule then comelynes and more scoffing then substaunce labouring to cast a myst before the eyes of the Reader and to beare dovvn the cause with svvelling vvordes of vain ostentation And concerning the time seeing that novv by the meanes of the vnaduised stirre vvhich by the reuerende Fathers is made in this Church of England al the faythfull seruauntes of Christe Iesus are in some sort called to beare vvitnesse vnto the truth and that vvithout verye good grounde it vvere not meet that any reasonable thing shoulde be refused of such men as vve be not onely to satisfie the expectation of all men desirous to knovve the truth but also to discharge our dutie to our Lord and Master Iesus Christ and to her gracious maiesty and all her good subiectes vve coulde not keep the pen from paper but vvere as it were inforced to beare this necessary vvitnes to a truth not so much by the reason of man impugned and resisted as by manifest and plaine places of scripture to be approoued and confirmed and for the dayly profite of the Church most behoosefull of euery man to be rightly vnderstood and in euery Congregation vvith all reuerence and diligence to be practised and religiously obserued For what man indovved vvith the feare of God and a reuerent loue of his Prince continually beholding the diligent hand of the seditious papists to waxe stronger and stronger through the stopping of the mouths of the sincere ministers and so many I might say innumerable soules for whome Christe Iesus shed his moste precious bloude to remaine in miserable captiuity and bondage of blindnesse and ignoraunce the very chaine of darknesse and iniquity for lacke of teaching and instruction and these non-residents and blinde guides which in some sort make a pray of God his heritage to bee so cunningly vnder-propped and maintained and so many thinges of so euil nature in themselues so pernicious to the church of God so dangerous to the state of this commō wealth so offensiue and burdenous to all people of any conscience and knowledge to be so mightily backed and defended what man I say hearing and seeing the daily and pitiful complaints of the poore people for lack of good pastors and of the reioycings of vvicked euill men in the trouble of the faithfull Ministers to the great dishonour of almighty God and contempt of many most wholsome Lawes by her most excellent Maiesty set foorth and established can be so carelesse and vndutifull as not to applye him-selfe in some sort or other that these great enormities may be detected and remooued Accept therfore gentle reader the godly labours which were employed in setting foorth this little Treatise thinke it not straunge that it commeth foorth so soone or so sodenly but take it as a stay an help vnto thee till some more larger discourse shalbe aduētured wherin the holy scripture is made the onely iudge of this cōtrouersy so much as cōcerneth the reasons of the lavves of this land is nothing at al touched as wel because the purpose of this reply vvas to instruct the cōscience by the proper means thervnto ordayned of God as because the shortnes of time could not suffer any more the pen vvhich vvrote this is of an other profession vveigh vvell and examine the reasons here inserted vvith the iust and euen ballaunce of God his holy sanctuary and let thine eye be single in iudging and no doubt but thorovv God his grace though peraduenture the stile may be somevvhat harsh and euery point not so finely adorned with the flovvers of mans eloquence yet the plaine simple euidence of the truth euen in her nakednesse and proper beauty shal so shine and cast her bright beames into thy conscience that if thou reape not so much profite as vvere to be vvished at the least vvyse this cause may receiue more fauourable interpretation and be esteemed as a thing vvorthy of due consideration Thus hoping of the blessing of God tovvardes thee and of thy charitable receiuing of the labours vvhich were enterprised to do thee good I cease anye further to hold thine eyes from the vvorke it selfe moste humbly beseeching God euen the father of our Lord ●esus Christ to be mercifull vnto this land to giue vs speedy and vnfayned repentaunce to turne his plagues from vs to ouerturne and confound the diuilish and blouddy treacheries of all seditious popish and other traiterous vndermyners of the state to plant true and godly loue among vs and to set vp the kingdome of his sonne according to his vvorde to the prosperous continuance of the most honourable and peaceable estate of the Queenes highnes to the reioycing of all faithfull and true hearted subiectes and to the glorie of his moste holye name for euer Amen Faults escaped Page 32. line 12. for Nicodemia read Nicomedia pa. 43. lin 5. for would read should pa. 56. lin 6. for rotted read rotten pa. 80. l. 11. for from read after p. 91. l. 11. for by read of pa. 92. li. 1. after God read doth pa. 120. li. 7. for he read they pa. 105. li. 6. after vpon read vs. pa. 128 line 10. read exercise ceasing pa. 131. li. 20. for commit read commute pa. 133. li. 3. for railing read calling pa. 146. li. 1. for hast read his own heart pag. 157 li. 13. for trueth read fruite ❧ Of the certaine