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scripture_n david_n psalm_n sing_v 2,543 5 9.4001 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A69535 The grand debate between the most reverend bishops and the Presbyterian divines appointed by His Sacred Majesty as commissioners for the review and alteration of the Book of common prayer, &c. : being an exact account of their whole proceedings : the most perfect copy. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Commission for the Review and Alteration of the Book of Common Prayer. 1661 (1661) Wing B1278A; Wing E3841; ESTC R7198 132,164 165

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of_o affair_n or_o if_o you_o will_v not_o hear_v we_o we_o beseech_v you_o hear_v the_o many_o minister_n in_o england_n that_o never_o meddle_v against_o the_o liturgy_n and_o the_o many_o moderate_a episcopal_a divine_n that_o have_v use_v it_o and_o can_v do_v still_o and_o yet_o will_v earnest_o entreat_v you_o to_o alter_v it_o partly_o because_o of_o what_o in_o it_o need_v alteration_n and_o partly_o in_o respect_n to_o the_o commodity_n of_o other_o or_o at_o least_o we_o beseech_v you_o recant_v and_o obliterate_v such_o passage_n as_o will_v hinder_v all_o yourselves_o from_o any_o act_n of_o reformation_n hereabout_o that_o if_o any_o man_n among_o you_o will_v find_v fault_n with_o some_o of_o the_o grosser_n thing_n which_o we_o lay_v open_a to_o you_o tender_o and_o spire_o and_o will_v reform_v they_o he_o may_v not_o present_o forfeit_v the_o reputation_n of_o be_v a_o protestant_n and_o last_o we_o beseech_v you_o deny_v not_o again_o the_o name_n of_o protestant_n 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be_v ancient_a so_o there_o want_v not_o a_o bign_n bellarm._n etc._n etc._n to_o tell_v we_o of_o s._n james_n his_o liturgy_n that_o mention_n the_o confessor_n the_o deiparam_fw-la the_o anchoret_n etc._n etc._n which_o make_v bellarm._n himself_o say_v de_fw-fr liturgia_fw-la jacobi_n sic_fw-la sentio_fw-la eam_fw-la aut_fw-la non_fw-la esse_fw-la ejus_fw-la aut_fw-la multa_fw-la à_fw-la posterioribus_fw-la eidem_fw-la addita_fw-la sunt_fw-la and_o must_v we_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o liturgy_n by_o this_o or_o try_v we_o by_o it_o there_o want_v not_o a_o sainctetius_n a_o bellarm._n a_o valentia_n a_o peresius_n to_o predicate_v the_o liturgy_n of_o s._n basil_n as_o bear_v witness_n to_o transubstantiation_n for_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n for_o pray_v to_o saint_n etc._n etc._n when_o yet_o the_o exceed_a disagreement_n of_o copy_n the_o difference_n of_o some_o form_n from_o basils_n ordinary_a form_n the_o prayer_n for_o the_o most_o pious_a and_o faithful_a emperor_n show_v it_o unlikely_a to_o have_v be_v basil_n many_o predicate_v chrysostom_n mass_n or_o liturgy_n as_o make_v for_o pray_v to_o the_o dead_a and_o for_o they_o the_o propitiatory_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n etc._n etc._n when_o in_o one_o edition_n chrysostom_n be_v pray_v to_o in_o it_o say_v cook_n in_o another_o nicolaus_n and_o alexius_n that_o live_v 1080_o be_v mention_v in_o another_o doctrine_n be_v contain_v as_o the_o contaminata_fw-la maria_fw-la etc._n etc._n clean_o contrary_a to_o chrysostoms_n doctrine_n must_v we_o now_o conclude_v that_o all_o be_v ancient_a that_o be_v orthodox_n when_o one_o copy_n be_v scarce_o like_o another_o or_o can_v we_o try_v our_o liturgy_n by_o such_o as_o this_o the_o shred_n cite_v by_o you_o prove_v a_o liturgy_n indeed_o such_o as_o we_o have_v use_v while_o the_o common_a prayer-book_n be_v not_o use_v where_o the_o psalm_n the_o word_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n commemoration_n and_o delivery_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o many_o other_o be_v use_v in_o a_o constant_a form_n when_o other_o part_n be_v use_v as_o the_o minister_n find_v most_o meet_v so_o sursum_fw-la corda_n be_v but_o a_o warn_n before_o or_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o devotion_n such_o as_o our_o let_v us_o pray_v and_o will_v no_o more_o prove_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o prayer_n be_v not_o leave_v to_o the_o minister_n present_n or_o prepare_a conception_n than_o item_fw-la missa_fw-la est_fw-la will_v prove_v it_o the_o gloria_fw-la patri_fw-la bellarm._n himself_o say_v according_a to_o the_o common_a opinion_n be_v form_v in_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a which_o be_v in_o the_o four_o century_n and_o even_o then_o such_o a_o particular_a testimony_n against_o the_o arrian_n might_n well_o stand_v with_o a_o body_n of_o unimposed_a prayer_n and_o rather_o show_v that_o in_o other_o thing_n they_o be_v leave_v at_o liberty_n if_o the_o benedicite_fw-la the_o hymn_n or_o other_o passage_n here_o mention_v will_v prove_v such_o a_o liturgy_n as_o please_v you_o we_o pray_v you_o bear_v with_o our_o way_n of_o worship_n which_o have_v more_o of_o hymn_n and_o other_o form_n then_o these_o come_v to_o that_o these_o liturgy_n have_v no_o original_n from_o general_a council_n add_v nothing_o with_o we_o to_o their_o authority_n but_o show_v that_o they_o have_v a_o arbitrary_a original_n and_o all_o set_v together_o show_v that_o then_o they_o have_v many_o liturgy_n in_o one_o prince_n dominion_n and_o those_o alterable_a and_o not_o force_v and_o that_o they_o take_v not_o one_o liturgy_n to_o be_v any_o necessary_a mean_n to_o the_o church_n unity_n or_o peace_n but_o bear_v with_o those_o that_o use_v various_a at_o discretion_n we_o well_o remember_v that_o tertull_n tell_v the_o heathen_n that_o christian_n show_v by_o their_o conceive_a hymn_n that_o they_o be_v sober_a at_o their_o religious_a feast_n it_o be_v their_o custom_n ut_fw-la cuique_fw-la de_fw-la scripture_n sanctis_fw-la vel_fw-la de_fw-la proprio_fw-la ingenio_fw-la potest_fw-la provocetur_fw-la in_o medium_n deo_fw-la canere_fw-la apol._n cap._n 39_o note_v here_o 1._o that_o though_o there_o be_v more_o need_n of_o form_n for_o sing_v then_o for_o pray_v yet_o even_o in_o this_o the_o christian_n in_o public_a have_v then_o a_o liberty_n of_o do_v it_o the_o proprio_fw-la ingenio_fw-la and_o by_o their_o own_o wit_n or_o part_n 2._o that_o those_o that_o do_v not_o the_o proprio_fw-la ingenio_fw-la do_v it_o the_o scripture_n sanctis_fw-la and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o any_o other_o liturgy_n from_o which_o they_o fetch_v so_o much_o as_o their_o hymn_n and_o the_o same_o tertul._n apol._n cap._n 30._o describe_v the_o christian_n public_a prayer_n say_v sine_fw-la monitore_fw-la quia_fw-la de_fw-la pectore_fw-la oramus_fw-la we_o pray_v without_o a_o monitor_n or_o promptor_n because_o we_o do_v it_o from_o the_o heart_n or_o from_o our_o own_o breast_n and_o before_o he_o just_o mart._n ap._n 2._o p._n 77._o say_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d but_o if_o all_o these_o word_n seem_v not_o plain_a enough_o to_o some_o it_o be_v no_o wonder_n when_o they_o rest_v not_o in_o the_o great_a plainness_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n where_o prayer_n be_v so_o frequent_o mention_v as_o much_o of_o the_o employment_n of_o believer_n and_o so_o many_o direction_n encouragement_n and_o exhortation_n give_v about_o it_o and_o yet_o no_o liturgy_n or_o stint_a form_n except_o the_o lord_n prayer_n be_v prescribe_v to_o they_o or_o once_o make_v mention_n of_o no_o man_n direct_v here_o to_o use_v such_o no_o man_n exhort_v to_o get_v he_o a_o prayer-book_n or_o to_o read_v or_o learn_v it_o or_o to_o beware_v that_o he_o add_v or_o diminish_v not_o whereas_o the_o holy_a scripture_n that_o be_v then_o give_v to_o the_o church_n man_n be_v exhort_v to_o read_v and_o study_v and_o meditate_v in_o and_o discourse_n of_o and_o make_v it_o their_o continual_a delight_n and_o it_o be_v a_o wonder_n that_o david_n that_o mention_n it_o so_o oft_o in_o the_o 119._o psalm_n do_v never_o mention_v the_o liturgy_n or_o common-prayer-book_n if_o they_o have_v any_o and_o that_o solomon_n when_o he_o dedicate_v the_o house_n of_o prayer_n without_o a_o prayer-book_n will_v only_o beg_v of_o god_n to_o hear_v what_o prayer_n or_o what_o supplication_n soever_o shall_v be_v make_v of_o any_o man_n or_o of_o all_o the_o people_n of_o israel_n when_o every_o one_o shall_v know_v his_o own_o sore_n and_o his_o own_o grief_n and_o shall_v spread_v forth_o his_o hand_n in_o that_o house_n two_o chron._n 6._o 29._o and_o that_o he_o give_v no_o hint_n of_o any_o liturgy_n or_o form_n so_o much_o as_o in_o those_o common_a calamity_n and_o talk_v of_o no_o other_o book_n than_o the_o knowledge_n of_o their_o own_o sore_n and_o their_o own_o grief_n and_o in_o the_o case_n of_o psalm_n or_o sing_v unto_o god_n where_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o they_o have_v a_o liturgy_n or_o form_n as_o we_o have_v they_o be_v careful_o collect_v preserve_v and_o deliver_v to_o we_o as_o a_o choice_n part_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o will_v it_o not_o have_v be_v so_o with_o the_o prayer_n or_o will_v they_o have_v be_v altogether_o unmentioned_a if_o they_o also_o have_v be_v there_o prescribe_v to_o and_o use_v by_o the_o church_n as_o the_o psalm_n be_v will_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n even_o where_o they_o be_v purposely_o give_v rule_n for_o prayer_n and_o correct_v its_o abuse_n as_o matth._n 6._o 1_o cor._n 14._o etc._n etc._n have_v never_o mention_v any_o form_n but_o the_o lord_n prayer_n if_o they_o have_v appoint_v such_o or_o desire_v such_o to_o be_v impose_v and_o observe_v these_o thing_n be_v incredible_a to_o we_o when_o we_o most_o impartial_o consider_v they_o for_o our_o own_o part_n as_o we_o think_v it_o uncharitable_a to_o forbid_v the_o use_n of_o spectacle_n to_o they_o that_o have_v weak_a eye_n or_o of_o crutch_n to_o they_o that_o have_v weak_a limb_n and_o as_o uncharitable_a to_o undo_v all_o that_o will_v not_o use_v they_o whether_o they_o need_v they_o or_o not_o so_o we_o can_v think_v no_o better_o of_o they_o that_o will_v suffer_v none_o to_o use_v such_o form_n that_o need_v they_o or_o that_o will_v suffer_v none_o to_o pray_v but_o in_o the_o word_n of_o other_o man_n prescribe_v though_o they_o be_v at_o least_o as_o able_a as_o the_o prescriber_n and_o to_o conclude_v we_o humble_o crave_v that_o ancient_a custom_n may_v not_o be_v use_v against_o themselves_o and_o we_o and_o that_o you_o will_v not_o innovate_v under_o the_o shelter_n of_o the_o name_n of_o antiquity_n let_v those_o thing_n be_v free_o use_v among_o we_o that_o be_v so_o use_v in_o the_o pure_a primitive_a time_n let_v unity_n and_o peace_n be_v lay_v on_o nothing_o on_o which_o they_o lay_v they_o not_o let_v
the_o land_n of_o our_o nativity_n as_o maris_n tell_v julian_n he_o thank_v god_n that_o have_v deprive_v he_o of_o his_o sight_n that_o he_o may_v not_o see_v the_o face_n of_o such_o a_o man_n socrat._v hist_n l._n 3._o c._n 10._o so_o we_o shall_v take_v it_o as_o a_o little_a abatement_n of_o our_o affliction_n that_o we_o see_v not_o the_o sin_n and_o calamity_n of_o the_o people_n who_o peace_n and_o welfare_n we_o so_o much_o desire_v having_n take_v this_o opportunity_n here_o to_o conclude_v this_o part_n with_o these_o request_n and_o warning_n we_o now_o proceed_v to_o the_o second_o part_n contain_v the_o particular_n of_o our_o exception_n and_o your_o answer_n concern_v morning_n and_o evening_n prayer_n sect._n 1_o rubr._fw-la 1_o we_o think_v it_o fit_a that_o the_o rubric_n stand_v as_o it_o be_v and_o all_o to_o be_v leave_v to_o the_o discretion_n of_o the_o ordinary_a reply_n we_o think_v the_o end_n and_o use_v more_o considerable_a than_o custom_n and_o that_o the_o ordinary_a himself_o shall_v be_v under_o the_o rule_n of_o do_v to_o edification_n sect._n 2._o rub._n for_o the_o reason_n give_v in_o our_o answer_n to_o the_o 18_o general_n whither_o you_o refer_v we_o we_o think_v it_o fit_a that_o the_o rubric_n continue_v as_o it_o be_v reply_n we_o have_v give_v you_o reason_n enough_o against_o the_o imposition_n of_o the_o usual_a ceremony_n and_o will_v you_o draw_v forth_o those_o absolute_a one_o to_o increase_v the_o burden_n sect._n 3_o lord_n pr._n deliver_v we_o from_o evil_a these_o word_n for_o thou_o be_v the_o kingdom_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o in_o s._n luke_n nor_o in_o the_o ancient_a copy_n of_o st._n matth._n never_o mention_v in_o the_o ancient_a comment_n nor_o use_v in_o the_o latin_a church_n and_o therefore_o question_v whether_o they_o be_v part_n of_o the_o gospel_n there_o be_v no_o reason_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v always_o use_v reply_n we_o shall_v not_o be_v so_o over-credulous_a as_o to_o believe_v you_o that_o these_o word_n be_v not_o in_o the_o ancient_a copy_n it_o be_v enough_o that_o we_o believe_v that_o some_o few_o ancient_a copy_n have_v they_o not_o but_o that_o the_o most_o even_o the_o generality_n except_o those_o few_o have_v they_o the_o judgement_n of_o our_o english_a translator_n and_o almost_o all_o other_o translator_n of_o matth._n and_o of_o the_o reverend_a b_o of_o chester_n among_o yourselves_o put_v the_o copy_n that_o have_v it_o in_o his_o bible_n as_o that_o which_o be_v most_o receive_v and_o approve_v by_o the_o church_n do_v show_v on_o which_o side_n be_v the_o chief_a authority_n if_o the_o few_o copy_n that_o want_v it_o have_v be_v think_v more_o arthentick_a and_o credible_a the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o most_o other_o church_n will_v not_o have_v prefer_v the_o copy_n that_o have_v this_o doxology_n and_o why_o will_v you_o in_o this_o contradict_v the_o late_a judgement_n of_o the_o church_n express_v in_o the_o translation_n allow_v and_o impose_v the_o syriack_n ethiopick_n and_o persian_a translation_n also_o have_v it_o and_o if_o the_o syriack_n be_v as_o ancient_a as_o you_o yourselves_o even_o now_o assert_v than_o the_o antiquity_n of_o doxology_n be_v there_o evident_a and_o it_o be_v not_o altogether_o to_o be_v neglect_v which_o by_o chemnitius_n and_o other_o be_v conjecture_v that_o paul_n word_n in_o tim._n 4._o 18._o be_v speak_v as_o in_o reference_n to_o this_o doxology_n and_o as_o pareus_n and_o other_o protestant_n conclude_v it_o be_v more_o probable_a the_o latrine_n neglect_v than_o that_o the_o greek_n insert_v of_o their_o own_o head_n this_o sentence_n the_o socinian_o and_o arrian_n have_v as_o fair_a pretence_n for_o their_o exception_n a_o ainst_a 1_o john_n 5_o 6_o 7._o masculus_fw-la say_v non_fw-la cogitant_fw-la vero_fw-la similius_fw-la esse_fw-la ut_fw-la graecorum_n ecclesia_fw-la magis_fw-la quam_fw-la latina_n quod_fw-la ab_fw-la evangelistis_fw-la graece_fw-la scriptum_fw-la est_fw-la integrum_fw-la seruârit_fw-la nihilque_fw-la de_fw-la svo_fw-la adjecerit_fw-la quid_fw-la de_fw-la graeca_n ecclesia_fw-la dico_fw-la vidi_fw-la ipse_fw-la vetustissimum_fw-la evangelium_fw-la secundum_fw-la matth._n codicem_fw-la chaldaeis_n &_o elementis_fw-la &_o verbis_fw-la conscriptum_fw-la in_fw-la quo_fw-la coronis_n ista_fw-la perinde_v atque_fw-la in_o graecis_fw-la legebatur_fw-la nec_fw-la chaldaei_n solum_fw-la sed_fw-la &_o drab_n christiani_n paciformiter_fw-la cum_fw-la graecis_fw-la orant_fw-la &_o exemplar_n hebraeum_n à_fw-fr docto_fw-la &_o celebri_fw-la d._n sebast_n munstero_n vulgatum_fw-la hanc_fw-la ipsam_fw-la coronidem_fw-la habet_fw-la cum_fw-la ergo_fw-la consentiunt_fw-la hâc_fw-la in_o re_fw-la hebraeorum_n chaldaeorum_n arabum_n &_o graecorum_n ecolesiae_fw-la contra_fw-la omnes_fw-la reliquas_fw-la tantum_fw-la tribuitur_fw-la authoritatis_fw-la ut_fw-la quod_fw-la s●la_fw-la diversum_fw-la legit_fw-la ab_fw-la evangelitis_n traditum_fw-la esse_fw-la credatur_fw-la quod_fw-la vero_fw-la reliquae_fw-la omnes_fw-la concorditer_fw-la habent_fw-la &_o orant_fw-la pro_fw-la addititio_fw-la &_o peregrino_fw-la habeatur_fw-la and_o that_o luke_n have_v it_o not_o will_v no_o more_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o part_n of_o the_o lord_n prayer_n than_o all_o other_o omission_n of_o one_o evangelist_n will_v prove_v that_o such_o word_n be_v corruption_n in_o the_o other_o that_o have_v they_o all_o set_v together_o give_v we_o the_o gospel_n full_o and_o from_o all_o we_o must_v gather_v it_o sect._n 4._o lord_n pr●often_v use_v it_o be_v use_v but_o twice_o in_o the_o morning_n and_o twice_o in_o the_o evening_n service_n and_o twice_o can_v be_v call_v often_o much_o less_o so_o often_o for_o the_o litany_n communion_n baptism_n etc._n etc._n they_o be_v office_n distinct_a from_o morning_n and_o evening_n prayer_n and_o it_o be_v not_o sit_v that_o any_o of_o they_o shall_v want_v the_o lord_n prayer_n reply_n we_o may_v better_o say_v we_o be_v require_v to_o use_v it_o six_o time_n every_o morning_n than_o but_o twice_o for_o it_o be_v twice_o in_o the_o common_a morning_n prayer_n and_o once_o in_o the_o litany_n &_o once_o in_o the_o communion_n service_n &_o once_o at_o baptism_n which_o in_o great_a parish_n be_v usual_a every_o day_n and_o once_o to_o be_v use_v by_o the_o preacher_n in_o the_o pulpit_n and_o if_o you_o call_v these_o distinct_a office_n that_o make_v not_o the_o lord_n prayer_n the_o seldomer_n use_v sure_o we_o be_v the_o apostle_n think_v it_o fit_a that_o many_o of_o their_o prayer_n shall_v be_v without_o the_o lord_n prayer_n sect._n 5._o glor._n patri_fw-la this_o doxology_n be_v a_o solemn_a confession_n of_o the_o bless_a trinity_n shall_v not_o be_v think_v a_o burden_n to_o any_o christian_a liturgy_n especial_o be_v so_o short_a as_o it_o be_v neither_o be_v the_o repetition_n of_o it_o to_o be_v think_v a_o vain_a repetition_n more_o than_o his_o mercy_n endure_v for_o ever_o so_o often_o repeat_v psal_n 136._o we_o can_v give_v god_n too_o much_o glory_n that_o be_v the_o end_n of_o our_o creation_n and_o shall_v be_v the_o end_n of_o all_o our_o service_n reply_n though_o we_o can_v give_v god_n too_o much_o glory_n we_o may_v too_o often_o repeat_v a_o form_n of_o word_n wherein_o his_o name_n and_o glory_n be_v mention_v there_o be_v great_a difference_n between_o a_o psalm_n of_o praise_n and_o the_o praise_n in_o our_o ordinary_a prayer_n more_o liberty_n of_o repetition_n may_v be_v take_v in_o psalm_n and_o be_v a_o ornament_n and_o there_o be_v difference_n between_o that_o which_o be_v unusual_a in_o one_o psalm_n of_o 150._o and_o that_o which_o be_v our_o daily_a course_n of_o worship_n when_o you_o have_v well_o prove_v that_o christ_n prohibition_n of_o battology_n extend_v not_o to_o this_o matth._n 6._o we_o shall_v acquiesce_v sect._n 6._o p._n 15._o ru._n 2._o in_o such_o place_n where_o they_o do_v sing_v etc._n etc._n the_o rubr._n direct_v only_o such_o sing_n as_o be_v after_o the_o manner_n of_o distinct_a read_n and_o we_o never_o hear_v of_o any_o inconvenience_n thereby_o and_o therefore_o conceive_v this_o demand_n to_o be_v needless_a reply_n it_o tempt_v man_n to_o think_v they_o shall_v read_v in_o a_o sing_a tone_n and_o to_o turn_v read_v scripture_n into_o sing_v have_v the_o inconvenience_n of_o turn_v the_o edify_a simplicity_n and_o plainness_n of_o god_n service_n into_o such_o affect_a unnatural_a strain_n and_o tone_n as_o be_v use_v by_o the_o mimical_a and_o ludicious_a or_o such_o as_o feign_v themselves_o in_o rapture_n and_o the_o high_a thing_n such_o as_o word_n and_o mode_n that_o signify_v rapture_n be_v most_o loathsome_a when_o force_v feign_a and_o hypocritical_o affect_v and_o therefore_o not_o fit_a for_o congregation_n that_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v in_o such_o rapture_n this_o we_o apply_v also_o to_o the_o sententious_a mode_n of_o prayer_n sect._n 7._o benedicite_fw-la this_o hymn_n be_v use_v all_o the_o church_n over_o conc._n tolet._n can._n