Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	church_n	word_n	write_a	3,648	5	10.7659	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93581	The divine right of Presbyterie, asserted by the present Assembly, and petitioned for accordingly to the Honourable House of Commons in Parliament. With reasons discussing this pretended divine right; and yet with tendernesse to the brethren of the Presbyterial way. Pleading for a liberty of conscience for them in this their opinion, as for others of their dissenting brethren, and equally for both. With inferences upon their late petition. / By John Saltmarsh, preacher of the gospel.	Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647.	1646 (1646)	Wing S478; Thomason E330_29; ESTC R200732	10,981	27

the Magistrate is not for their Eldership and Presbytery are to be accountable to the Civill power for their miscarriages and how at the same time they should subject their Churches in their mal Administrations to the Magistrates power of judging and yet chalenge such an entire sole supream and Ecclesiasticall Judicature is a mystery becoming the learning of that same Assembly to reveale which first begun it Principles against the Divine Right of their present Presbytery extracted from the Reasons 1. THey are no such Presbyters of Jesus Christ as the first were because ordained by an Antichristian power of Bishops nor were Bishops true Presbyters nor those who joyned with them in their Ordination who were made by them nor is there any succession of Ordination but it implies both a Perpetuall Visible Church and a true Church Ministery and Ordinances under Antichrist which are all to be proved by them 2. If there were any such true Church invisible under Antichrist to which they succeed in their Ministery then it must appeare that they succeed that very invisible Church and that that very invisible Church had a true Ministery or Presbytery in it for men may be Saints or good men yet not good Presbyters or Ministerially sent 3. As they now in their practice will not account any for true Presbyters but such who can prove to them their personall Ordination from them so we demand of these Presbyters an account of their personall succession accordingly which personall succession if it be false and interrupted anywhere in the Line must needs be all false from such a point where the first interruption was made 4. Though Christs promise is enough to ground a perpetuity of Church and Christs presence yet not of his promise made good to such particular men or to their pretended succession 5. They that challenge a Divine Right to the power they act by must act by a gift as divine and infallible as their right and power and thus did the primitive Presbyters and Elders therefore the gift now being but mixt their right or power is but mixt accordingly and not Divine 6. They who were Elders or Presbyters in the first Churches as Ierusalem c. were gifted by a spirit which taught the very infallible Word which is now written or Scripture and so they then did constitute advise counsell in the place of this written Word and all Scripture Formes and Institutions were then in the gift and persons but no such thing can be said of any Eldership or Presbytery of men now 7. They who set up an Eldership or Presbytery now of Divine Right to constitute ordain counsell c. doe joyn to the Word written or infallible Scripture a Power lesse infallibly gifted who by such a Divine Right and Power pretended shall controll the Word of Truth by Interpretations of that word lesse then truth which is not consistent with the glory of the Word 8. There is no Eldership or Presbytery in Scripture but either the Churches Act did precede it act it or accompany it by precept or practice which makes the Divine Right of the Presbytery questionable uncertaine unsafe because of a contrary Scripture and precept 9. The Eldership and Presbytery which are brought for instances are questionable first for the Persons who were not such very Presbyters as they would imply but Apostles Evangelists c. or otherwise ordained either by Apostles or Church or otherwise gifted by speciall unction or else an Eldership of eminency not of Office 10. They hold this Divine Right is in the first subject in the Congregationall Presbytery and yet they set up a Classicall Provinciall Nationall Presbytery to compleat and controll this of the Congregationall and how this their Divine Right can be subjected thus to a right lesse Divine is unreasonable and unscripturall to imagine 11. Suppose such a power as a Nationall Presbytery collected from all parts of the Kingdome every Congregation having an Interest or part there and this Presbytery so Nationall and Collective inforformed by a Divine Right for judging sins c. shall not this Nationall Presbytery take cognizance of States if sinning Ecclesiastically as well as others and if so what proceeding what censures will follow from such a body as universall as the body of that State of as much interest in the Kingdom as they of more interest by how much more Divine a Right they act by and by how much neerer they are seated to the conscience and how Kingdomes have been embroyled by such an Ecclesiasticall Interest Histories will tell yee 12. So as in this strait when Parliament is perswaded of no Divine Right Assembly of a Divine Right and the Dissenting Brethren of another Divine Right is not the way this to let the Parliament have their Liberty of Conscience to settle no Divine Right by a Power and the Assembly to use their Liberty in a Divine Right with all that will peaceably joyn with them in the Kingdome under that Power and not to trouble the Magistrate further and the other Brethren as peaceably to enjoy their other Divine Right as the Brethren of the Presbyteriall way theirs and all alike under the same Civill Power and neither of them with it and all other Reformed Kingdoms in unity of the spirit and love to one another Principles destructive to their present Petition extracted from the Inferences 1. The Presbytery now not so distinct in gifts and office but the Magistrate may rule with them THe Eldership and Presbytery in the Primitive Churches had a spirit anointing them to such Administrations but now as the anointing is not so nor is the Office pure peculiar and distinct the Magistrates and Parliament have gifts as spirituall as there are any now in the pretended Presbytery and may therefore as well put forth a Power in their Churches or Congregations as they unlesse their Churches Officers and Gifts were more Christs then they are 2. The Magistrate may better rule then the Eldership or present Presbytery The Magistrate is unquestionably a Power of God and the present Presbyterie are Officers questionable in their Offices Gifts c. therefore the Magistrate may more lawfully put forth a Power coercive to sinne then they 3. Vniformity in the Word of God is the Vniformity of Churches They that presse the Covenant for Vniformity so penally as they doe make it a snare of compulsion not in the Word of it but in their Interpretation of that Word unity in the spirit makes up the want of Vniformity in the letter Kingdomes are to be no more compelled to uniformity in Lawes Ecclesiasticall then in Civill but may walk together as Believers so far as they have attained that clause according to the Word of God makes roome for the severall statures of Christ and measures of light in the Covenant and they that agree in that are truly Vniforme for it is the uniformity with the Word not with one another but so far as we are

because of the mixture of their anointing and gifts if they will needs have such a Government set up for Christ's which is not all Christs and most of that all very questionable whether of Christ or no For all their proofs alleadged from Scripture for the Presbytery by Divine Right or of such Presbyters as were ordained either by Christ himself as the Apostles or by a power from the Apostles or from such who in that power received from the Apostles did ordain or by a power in the Church or Congregation preceding such a power and accompanying such a power Now this present Presbytery can neither make it self appear to be so purely ordained nor have they the Church or Congregational power so preceding or accompanying such an Ordination nor is that act of Imposition of hands by which their present Presbyters stand Ministers a meer signe of setting apart or meerly significative but an Institution for gifts to be conferred under the Law it was an empty and bare Rite but under the Gospel it cannot be proved to be such an empty Rite Gospel-signes being but few full and ministerial to the Spirit not meerly significatively-visible as the Institutions and Rites under the Law were So as all being thus questionable still in this present Presbytery how can they so Apostolically chalenge such a Divine Right their present constitutions being mixt questionable fallible not one and the same with that primitive pure certain constitutions and practices Whereas it appears in their Scripture-proofs that both in Jerusalem Ephesus Crete c. the Prebyters and Elders did constitute c. and were most consulted with and advised and therefore they assume the same power and so force out rather then prove out their frame of their present Presbytery from such practices I desire the Brethren to tell us whether the Word of the Gospel was then wholly in Scripture or writing but partly in the Spirit and gifts or teaching and therefore the Eldership of the Churches then were so gifted as to direct constitute advise and from the ministration of gifts in the Eldership c. the Institutions forms and Rules were given out into Scripture or writing which Scripture or written Word is now in the place of that infallible Primitive Eldership and therefore for any Presbytery or Eldership to assume now such a power as the first did they do not onely without warrant substitute themselves to such a Presbytery or Eldership which stood by another anointing or spirit of gifts then themselves do but they sit down in the throne with the very Scripture or written Word of God casting a shadow upon the glory and infallibility of that Word by that present authority and power which they now chalenge in the interpretation of that Word in their Presbytery because by such a sure and certain power as Divine Right allows them they having not a sure and infallible Spirit for Church-censures or the execution of such a power may put forth a certain sure executive power by an uncertain unsure and fallible spirit And so how proportionable a power of Divine Right is with a spirit not purely Divine and how proportionable a power of Church-censures acted by a gift not purely the Spirit's but rather the Universities and Schools and to joyn such an Eldership so with the infallible Word or Scripture which for want of that primitive or pure anointing by gifts shall control the pure Word of Truth by an Interpretation lesse then truth I leave to all the world of believers to judge How such a visible power and Judge as a National Assembly of such a Presbytery can be set up which must judge all the Churches and Congregations of Christ all the Magistracy and State-power in the Kingdom they assuming to themselves a spirit of judging and discerning of sins And whether by this power the Parliament of England shall not fall under the cognisance interpretation and censure of such an Assembly for some sins which they as a Civil power may commit especially dealing in Ecclesiastical causes And then how far such a National Assembly may manage such crimes to the heightening of their own interest and to the troubling the interest of the State amongst the people I let all judge who know how the same visible Ecclesiastical Judge is condemned by all the Reformed Kingdoms under another notion viz. of the Antichrist and Pope and Councels And how that Antichristian power and Judge in Ecclesiasticals hath troubled this and other Kingdoms to the embroiling them by excommunications into Wars and commotions as in our Histories c. and hath at length taken up other weapons then the Word to make good their Ecclesiastical censures interests And whether this visible power under the form of Classical Provincial National Oecumenical be any other then the like Papal Episcopal power differing onely in form in Consistorial Provincial National Oecumenical Counsels and Synods the like spirit of Dominion ruling conventing excommunicating in each Objection But how will you do to satisfie Parliament Presbyterials and other dissenting Brethren Answ Not that I will determine but propound for the Parliament It appears that the State-conscience according to the present corrupt constitution both of Ministers and Elders and People of this Kingdom cannot yeeld a Divine Right to a Presbytery so constituted and therefore they are not to be forced to the judgement of the present Assembly no more then the Assembly do desire to be forced themselves to their judgement and therefore each is to enjoy their liberty in the Lord as they are perswaded The State is to enjoy their liberty in their judgement of no Divine Right in this present Presbytery The Assembly may enjoy theirs in their judgement of a pretended Divine Right of Presbytery in all Congregations which will conscienciously practice with them not seeking to make the State subservient to them by their Civil power which no Scripture-practice will warrant from any Eldership or Presbytery there and thus the French Churches enjoy the Presbytery at this day having no Civil power to help them And the other dissenting Brethren may enjoy their Divine Right too being as fully perswaded from Scripture of theirs as the other are of theirs and equally live under the same liberty and not trouble the State with any thing but their prayers and obedience Objection But the Brethren of the Assembly expect the Parliament should joyn with their results Answ I know not why they should expect that for they are no more infallibly gifted then their Brethren that they should expect more from the State then they Their Ministery is as questionable Their Interests are more in the world then the Interests of the first Presbyters were as in their maintenance by Tythes and in their power of Classical Provincial National the Kingdom being thus corrupted and in that subserviency and power of compulsion they demand of the Magistrate and Princes of the world And why our dissenting Brethren may not with as much

all alike in that Word which is the very Vniformity of the Kingdom of Christ 4. The Magistrate as they now make him is Ecclesiasticall as well as they They that ascribe a Power to any to compleat and actuate them in their Ministration do acknowledge that very Power by which they are informed to be in those that so informe and compleat them so as the very Petitioning a State for Power and qualification for Eldership and Presbytery doth imply a Presbyterall and Ecclesiasticall Power in that State and if so the Magistrate may as well govern in that Church as any Ruling Officer they have 5. The present Presbytery in mystery both over and under the Magistrate They that are a Magistracy neither over nor under the Presbytery tell me in what spheare or where rule they for over it they are not Commissioners they say are contrary to the word and under it they are not for their Presbytery is accountable as they say unto it so as they who are so much in the dark with their Government doe with Magistracy they know not what and would place it they know not where The Position being a safer way for the Magistrate then the Erastian and how the Presbyteriall Brethren cannot justly exclude him from ruling with them according to the present constitution both of the pretended Church and Presbytery That the Magistrate or Parliament cannot be excluded from Government in this present Presbytery as the present Assembly would exclude them because this Kingdom of England is not a Church in Gospel order but a Kingdome of Beleevers in generall and because their present Presbyters and Elders are no true Presbyters of Jesus Christ according to Gospel-order and till both this Nationall Church and Officers bee that very Kingdome of Christ and those very Officers of Christ the Magistrate may as lawfully yea more lawfully rule then any other pretended Officer Minister or Elder amongst them for Magistrates have the whole Kingdome of the world allowed from God for their place of Government And this Kingdom of England being but a Kingdom or world of Beleevers not a Church they may as they are powers of God rule amongst them Iesus Christ being only King and head in that Church or Kingdom which is more his own and the Magistrates Kings for him in that Kingdom which is the world or lesse his owne so as the Presbyteriall Brethren cannot exclude the Civill power from governing with them according to the unsound constitution of their Church Ministers and Elders nor till they have proved the truth both of their very Church Ministery and Eldership for all Scripture proofes of Eldership and Presbytery is respective to the true Presbytery and Eldership according to truth not to every pretended Presbytery and Eldership of the Nations so as till the very Constituting Principles of Presbytery be proved true no Scripture either alledged for Presbytery belongs to them nor any other by which they would exclude the Magistrate as from the Church of Christ Conclusion These few things I have writ to draw forth the strength of others in a thing of this Nature which is of as high concernment in the things of Gospel-order as any point now abroad for surely it is not a Vniversity a●Cambridge or Oxford a Pulpit and Black gowne or Cloak makes one a true Minister of Iesus Christ though these are the best things in the composition of some the Mystery of Iniquity hath deceived the world with a False and Artificiall unction for that true one of the Spirit and the Ministery hath been so cloathed with Art and Habit that if the Apostles should live again and preach in that plainnesse they came they would be as despised for we wonder after the Wise the Scribe and the Disputer of this World FINIS See Ordin. Jun. 12. 1043. p. 4. 2 Pet. 1. 17. See their Humble Advice See in their Humble Advice c. to the Parl. Manuscr Pag. 4. See the Humble Advice c. of the Assembly in Manu See in their last Petition See Petition