Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	church_n	word_n	write_a	3,648	5	10.7659	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88107	The nevv quere, and determination upon it, by Mr. Saltmarsh lately published, to retard the establishment of the Presbyteriall government, examined, and shewed to be unseasonable, unsound, and opposite to the principles of true religion, and state. Whereunto is annexed a censure of what he hath produced to the same purpose, in his other, and later booke, which he calleth The opening of Master Prinnes Vindication. And an apologeticall narrative of the late petition of the Common Councell and ministers of London to the Honourable Houses of Parliament, with a justification of them from the calumny of the weekly pamphleters. / By John Ley, one of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster.	Ley, John, 1583-1662.	1645 (1645)	Wing L1885; Thomason E311_24; ESTC R200462	96,520	124

their opinions and forward to engage in termes of contradiction and when they are once heated with a fond affection to their owne fancies which is the more blowne up by the breath of an opposite they are not masters of their owne words nor can they exercise any reasonable rule either upon their spirits or speeches and sometimes they second their precipitancie in both with such a pertinacie of will and stoutnesse of stomach that they choose rather to cast firebrands about to put Nations and Churches into a dangerous combustion then quietly to compose any personall quarrell of their owne though never so inconsiderately stirred up by them this is the extremitie of that malignant and mischievous practice which God professeth especially to hate Prov. 6.19 And for the opprobrious termes he complaineth of if he had the patience to beare them when he heard them and did not reciprocate one contumely for another as some say he did he should have had the prudence and to that should have advised him had I been of his counsell to have buried them in silence and not for that which was but whispered in the eare to propose it to publique view that every one may read the reproach of K. and F. put upon him in print SECT VIII The Argument against the speedy setting up of the Presbyteriall Government taken from Christs practise answered A Second exception reduced to the example of Christ in his practise is that * § 3. p. 4. Christ Iesus himselfe could as easily have setled his Government by miracle as any can now by Civill power if there had beene such a primary or morall necessitie of establishing it so soone upon a people scarce enlightened for any part of it But we see the contrary first in himselfe he taught long and Iohn before him and so the Disciples and the gifts for Government were not given till he ascended and the modell for Government was not brought forth but by degrees and as people fell in and were capable of the yoke and would mould more easily to the Commandements of Christ and whether then or no is yet a Question which some have sit the debates to though not with me who am fully perswaded of the power of order which the Apostle ioyed to behold though a power with as little dominion in government as tradition in worship Answer 1. The acts and times for the Divine providence towards his Church are various and the reasons of them many times reserved to God he could no doubt have governed his Church in the first age of the world by the scepter of his written word but there was no Scripture till God wrote his Decalogue or ten Commandements in Tables of stone Exod. 31.18 and if the Booke of Genesis were written before it was yet after the birth of Moses for he was the Penman of it who was not borne till the yeare of the world 2373. all this while God had his Church and no written Law for the government of it Yet when he brought the Israelites out of Egypt which was in the yeare 2454 the next yeare after he gave direction for the building of a Tabernacle and to the Morall Law forementioned added Lawes Ceremoniall and Iudiciall divers of which were not to be put in execution untill their coming into Canaan which was well neere fortie yeares afterward so farre was he before-hand with the government of his Church of the new edition 2. Whereas he saith that Iesus Christ could have as easily setled the government of his Church by miracle as any can now by Civill power we grant it yea and more that he could have done it without a miracle and yet more that he did so when he chose Apostles and gave them the keyes of the Kingdome of heaven Matth. 16.19 for remission and retaining of sinnes Ioh. 10.23 and set downe a rule of graduall proceeding with offenders Matt. 18.15 16 17. 3. If it be said that this was late in the Ministery of our Saviour and therefore we must take his example not onely for the thing it selfe but for the time this will make more for the Anabaptisticall delay of Baptisme then for delay in Discipline or Government for he was not baptized untill he was about thirty yeares of age Luk. 3.23 but he began to set up a government of his Church within the compasse of his publique Ministery which at the most lasted but foure yeares space and many learned men confine it to three yeares and an halfe or thereabouts As for Iohn Baptist his time was shorter for he was beheaded in the second of the foure yeares forementioned nor did it belong to his Office to set up a government in the Evangelicall Church but to prepare the way of the Lord by preaching repentance unto the people Matth. 3.3 Isa 40.3 4. Whereas he saith the gifts of government were not given till Christ ascended to that it may be answered 1. That he ascended fortie three dayes after the period of his publique Ministration which added to the yeares forementioned make but small difference as to the government in question 2. That though he gave them an increase of gifts for government as he did for preaching he put his Apostles upon neither of those offices without competent gifts and qualifications for them 5. For the model of government which he saith was brought forth by degrees as people fell in and were capable of the yoke I would know what model he meaneth if he meane any model of Christ or his Apostles as it appeareth he doth for saith he against Mr. Colemans opinion I am fully assured of a power of order which the Apostle reioyced to behold Col. 2.5 I aske whether this be given by tradition or contained in the Scripture I suppose he will say of Government as well as of Worship not by tradition but by the written word and if so though it were but young in the time of Christ or his Apostles it is very ancient to us for we have no part of the written word but it is fifteene hundred yeares of age at least why then should that which is so old in constitution be thought too soone to be put in execution at the present especially since besides the direction for it in the Scripture we have had these many yeares severall patterns of it in many reformed Churches in the Christian world Nor doe our brethren of Scotland though they assert it from Scripture to be the will of God expect that the Parliament should establish it Jure Divino * M. Gelaspi● his brotherly examination of M. Colemans Sermon p. 32 33. If they shall in a Parliamentary and Legislative way establish that thing which is really and in it selfe agreeable to the word of God though they doe not declare it to be the will of Iesus Christ they are satisfied If it be best as his words imply that the government be brought in by degrees so it is in the present reformation for it

reason and makes as much against the former Protestations of the Parliament and the late Covenant of three Kingdomes yea against all assurances of either kind as against the Government in question for there will be alwayes some that will be scrupled with any thing that is publiquely established Obiect But saith he * § 1. p. 3. The people are generally unt aught in the nature and grounds of this Church Government and therefore to put upon them the practice of that whereof it is impossible they can be fully perswaded in their minds is to put them upon a necessitie either of sinne or of misery To which The Answer is so easie and ready that it may be some matter of marvaile an ingenious man as Mr. Saltmarsh is should make such an Objection for 1. The Church Government desired is no other then for the chiefe parts of it hath good warrant from the word of God 2. For what is of lesse moment if it be not directly deduced out of Scripture it is not repugnant to the Scripture but agreeable to grounds of prudence and the example of the best reformed Churches 3. For the practice of Government it belongeth not to the peoples part as he puts the case to be active in it but to the Ministers and Elders and they are not to enter upon the exercise of their authoritie before they be sufficiently informed in it and thence it is that though there be an Order given for it they that should officiate in it make a pause and deliberate upon it before they set upon the practise of it 4. For the people so farre as concerneth their compliance or correspondence with the government they are to be instructed in it before they yeeld submission to it for that purpose the Government is proposed by parts and by degrees so as it may be best apprehended by all and the Preachers appointed to teach both the offices of the Gevernours and the duties of the people so as each may performe his part without scruple or doubting 5. If any after this information out of weaknesse remaine unsatisfied be is not as this Writer resolveth put upon such a dangerous Dilemma as either to make choyce of sin by obeying or of misery by refusall to obey for such as not out of wilfulnesse or faction but out of tendernesse of conscience cannot comply with the rule are not presently to be ruled with the rod 1 Cor. 4.21 but with meeknesse to be instructed though they be contrary minded 2 Ti●i 2.25 and with so much longsuffering and patience to be forborne as may not be injurious to the truth of God and prejudiciall to the peace of the Church 6. Whereas he would have the generall ignorance of the people touching government a roason to suspend the setting of it up it may rather be pleaded for expedition in the worke for if it be not set up the people cannot know it practically and while it is unknowne unto them it is impudently slandered by some and impotently yeelded by many others to be injurious and tyrannicall whereas if it had beene experimentally knowne as it is it would have beene before now both honourable and amiable in the eies of them who are not prepossessed with prejudice against it 7. For those two Texts which he alleadgeth for deferring the Government and if there be any weight in them as to that purpose they make against it not for a time onely but for ever I commend to his consideration and wish he would preach and presse to his people when the government is set up as I hope it shortly will be or rather before-hand to prepare them for it such Scriptures as these We beseech you brethren to know them which labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you and to esteeme them very highly in lo●e for their works sake 1 Thes 5.12 13. Let the Elders that rule well be accounted worthy of double honour especially they who labour in the word and doctrine 1 Tim. 5.17 Remember them which have the rule over you who have spoken to you the word of God Heb. 13.7 vers 17. Obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for they watch for your soules as they that must give account that they may doe it with i●y and not with griefe Thus much for his first Paragraph which may deserve the first place and a fuller answer then any of the rest because it brings more appearance of proofe both by Scripture and reason then any of the other SECT IIII. Reasons against the present setling of Government taken from Conscience answered THe next reason for adjourning or putting off the Government to a further time is taken from Conscience and that in two respects 1. In that the conscience hereby that is by a speedy setting up of government is mis-guided to a compliance with a * § 2. p. 3. Principle of Popery against the Nationall Covenant Answ It is very strange that any one who remembreth the Nationall Covenant as he taketh upon him to doe that citeth it wherein we are bound sincerely really and constantly to endevour the reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ireland in Discipline and Government in the first Article of it should from the same Covenant plead for delay in the establishment thereof and yet more strange that he should doe it under the title of Popery which in the next Article of the Covenant is disavowed which if his reasoning were right were such a contradiction as would argue the composers and penners of the Covenant to be men of most pitifull simplicitie But wherein appeareth this Popery Why in * § 2. p. 3. bringing the people under a Popish implicit obedience and he confirmes it by experience * § 2. ibid. We know it by e●eperience saith he that the people have beene ever devoted to any thing that the State sets up all the disputes or conscience of the common people ending in this Whether it be established by Law or no and going usually no higher or further then a Statute or Act of State for their Religion To which I answer 1. For that he saith of implicit Popish obedience it is very impertinently applied to the Discipline or Government in question since as I have shewed in what I said to his first reason it is so ordered already that therein instruction must preced or goe before observation nor shall any one be bound to act in that particular any further then according to his light 2. For his observation upon experience it maketh as much against matter of Doctrine as mattes of Discipline and more against the Authority of the Parliament then the authority of Ministers since They not Ministers make Statutes and establish Lawes and if the people be so apt to idolize a Statute or an Act of State but I beleeve they more often offend in defect then in exeesse of respect unto them it will be

of their Brethren at Westminster nor any distast at the rest of the Directory for any particular contained in it But yet for all this some are so unwilling to beleeve there will be peace especially in the point of Government of the Church that they faine the Parliament and the Assembly of Divines at irreconciliable difference about it the Divines requiring the stampe of Divine right to be set upon it and the Parliament resolute to yeeld no more authoritie for it then a meere Civill Sanction can give unto it Answer To this we answer 1. That the Divines doe not affirme the whole frame and fabrick of Church Government to be of Divine right for it is made up of particulars of different kinds viz. Substantials of Government which have their warrant either by ordinance in his word or direct inference from it as that there must be Church Officers Pastors and their Ordination Elders and Deacons and Church Offices both of preaching administration of the Sacraments and Government Church censures admonition suspension excommunication and accidentall or circumstantiall additions which are of prudentiall direction and consideration as for Pastors when and in what manner they shall be ordained whether a Preacher should treat on a Text or on some Theologicall Theme or Common place when and how oft and to how many at once the Sacraments should be administred how many assisting Elders should be in a Parish and whether they should be chosen and admitted to their office with imposition of hands and continue in it for a yeare or two or for terme of life in what forme of words admonition suspension or excommunication should be comprised and pronounced with divers others of like sort This distinction the Divines of the Assembly make of the contents of the Directory for the publique worship of God throughout the three Kingdomes and the same hath the like use in the Church Government desired their words in the last lease of the Preface of the Directory are these We have after earnest and frequent calling upon the Name of God and after much consultation not with flesh and blood but with the holy Word resolved to lay aside the former Leiturgy with the many rites and Ceremonies formerly used in the worship of God and have agreed upon this following Directory for all the parts of publique worship at ordinary and extraordinary times Wherein our care hath beene to hold forth such things as are of Divine Institution in every Ordinance and other things we have endevoured to set forth according to the rules of Christian prudence agreeable to the generall Rules of the Word of God 2. Though the Honourable Houses have not yet asserted the constitution of the Church Government as ordained in or derived from or as agreeable to the Word of God because as some render the reason it is not the manner of Law-makers to mingle matter of Religion with their Civill Sanction yet when they present it compleat in all the parts thereof it may be they will at least give intimation of the conformity of it to the Canonicall Scriptures according to the distinction of the parts before proposed and it is not so strange and unusuall as some pretend for Legislative authoritie to borrow a religious reputation for what they inact or ordaine from the Word of God for we find instance thereof in the Statutes (a) Concerning the Sacrament of the Lords Supper the words of Institution are set downe and 15. places of Scripture quoted in the Marginewith letters of reference in the Text. Poult Abridgm p. 826. of the first yeare of Edward the sixth c. 1. (b) The Statute of the first of Q. Mery c. 2. repealed as causing a decay of the honour of God and the discomsort of the professours of the truth of Christs Religion Ibid. p. 1005. In the first of Eliza. c. 2. (c) For as much as profane swearing and cursing is forbidden by the Word of God Ibid. p. 1403. In the 21. of K. James c. 20. (d) Nothing more acceptable to God then the true and sincere service and worship of him according to his holy will and that the holy keeping of the Lords Day is 2 principal part of the true service of God Ibid. p. 1427. In the first of K. Charles c. 1. (e) For as much as the Lords Day commonly called Sunday is much broken and profaned by Carryers c. to the great dishonour of God reproch of Religion c. Ibid. p. 1434. In the third of K. James c. 1. Lastly the present Parliament hath done the like already for some parts of the Reformation authorised as for the Ordination of Ministers which is a chiefe part of the Presbyteriall authoritie of which they say * So in the Ordinance for Ordination ordered to be printed October 2. 1644. p. 2. Whereas it is manifest by the Word of God that no man ought to take upon him the office of a Minister untill he be lawfully called and ordained thereunto and that the worke of Ordination that is to say an outward solemne setting apart of persons for the office of the Ministery in the Church by Preaching Presbyters is an Ordinance of Christ and is to be performed with all due care wisdome gravitie and solemnity It is ordained by the Lords and Commons c. And in their Ordinance for the Directory Jan. 3. 1644. They beginne with these words The Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament taking into serious consideration the manifold incenveniences that have risen by the Booke of Common Prayer in this Kingdome and resolving according to their Covenant to reforme Religion according to the Word of God and the example of the best Reformed Churches have consulted with the Reverend Pious and Learned Divines called together to that purpose and doe judge it necessary that the said Booke of Common Prayer be abolished and the Directorie for the publique worship of God herein after mentioned be established and observed in all the Churches within this Kingdome c. If it be said that Ordination and Worship are usually distinguished from Power and Government and that both of them have more expresse warrant from the word of God then can be found in Scripture for the Presbyteriall Government I Auswer 1. That the question is not now whether there be difference betwixt them but whether there be such difference betwixt a Civill Sanction and Divine ratification that the one may not well be brought in with the other 2. That though there were much use made of the distinction of the key of order and the key of power or of Iurisdiction in the time of the Prelates so that they confined that wholly to the Clergie principally to themselves while they sold or trusted out the key of power or of jurisdiction to Vicars generall Chancellours Archdeacons Commissaries and rurall Deanes yet is Ordination one of the principall parts of the Presbyteriall power and if it be as it is commonly taken matter

Elders or in any other part of Ecclesiasticall power but humbly wait for further warrant from the Parliament to proceed in the work while many of our dissenting Brethren of their owne accord and without the command or consent and against the Vote of the Civill State gather Churches or continue the Government of those they have gathered according to the modell of their owne choosing notwithstanding the joynt admonition of many eminent Ministers as well Independent as Presbyteriall to forbeare untill what was and yet is in part under deliberation came to accomplishment and * M. S. Eaton Teacher and Tim. Taylor Pastour of the Church of Duckenfield in Cheshire in their late defence of sundry positions and Scriptures to justifie the Congregationall way some take the boldnesse publikely and in print to avow themselves as Ministers under the name and office of Teachers and Pastors of new constituted Churches and publikely to assert their repugnant principles and practises in opposition to that which the Honourable Houses of Parliament have partly authorised already by their Civill Sanction and engaged themselves further to authorise throughout the Churches of both Kingdomes as God shall be pleased to make way for a thorow reformation by reducing the severall Countries under the command of the King and Parliament But I had rather then recriminate friendly and kindly close with my yet dissenting Brother and therefore heartily commend it to his Christian consideration to study the reconciliation and union of all the godly party as Mr. Burroughs hath lately done and not to proceed to discourses which tend to make or maintaine division or estrangement and alienation of affection betwixt them To that purpose I shall propose as a patterne of imitation to Mr. Saltm and to all others who partake with him in his present Opinion what he hath set downe in the seventh Chapter of his Irenicum in his owne words First Mr. Burroughs his Irenieum c. 7. p. 43 44 45. Those in the Congregationall way acknowledge that they 〈◊〉 bound in conscience to give account of their wayes to the Churches about them or to any other who shall require it this not in an arbitrary way but as a dutie that they owe to God and man Secondly They acknowledge that Synods of other Ministers and Elders about them are an Ordinance of Iesus Christ for the helping the Church against errours schismes and scandals Thirdly That these Synods may by the power they have from Christ admonish men or Churches in his Name when they see evils continuing in or growing upon the Church and their admonitions carry with them the anthoritie of Iesus Christ Fourthly As there shall be cause they may declare men or Churches to be subverters of the faith or otherwise according to the nature of the offence to shame them before all the Churches about them Fiftly They may by a solemne act in the Name of Iesus Christ refuse any further communion with them till they repent Sixthly They may declare and that also in the Name of Christ that these erring people or Churches are not to be received into fellowship with any of the Churches of Christ nor to have communion one with another in the Ordinances of Christ Now all this being done in Christs Name is this nothing to prevaile with conscience If you say private brethren may admonish and declare in the Name of Christ This is more then if any private Brethren should do the same thing for at Synod is a solemne Ordinance of Christ and the Elders are to be looked on as the officers of Iesus Christ But our Brethren say There is one meanes more in their way then the Congregation all way hath that is if the sixe former will not work then Synods may deliver to Satan In this very thing lies the very knot of the Controversie betweene these who are for the Presbyteriall and those who are for the Congregationall way in reference to the matter in hand namely the meanes to reducing from or keeping out errours and heresies from the Church in this lies the dividing businesse But I beseech you consider at what a punctum we divide here and judge whether the cause of division in this thing be so great as there can be no helpe and whether if an evill spirit prevaile not amongst us we may not joyne For First consider what is there in this delivering to Satan which is a seventh thing which our Brethren thinke may hopefully prevaile with mens consciences when the sixe former cannot Yes say they for by this they are put out of the Kingdome of Christ into the kingdome of Satan and this will terrifie This putting out of Christs Kingdome must be understood clave non errante if the Synod judges right not otherwise yes this is granted by all Then consider whether this be not done before and that with an authoritie of Christ by those former sixe things for bereticall Congregations or persons are judged and declared in a solemne Ordinance by the officers of Christ gathered together in his Name to be such as have no right to any Church Ordinance to have no communion with any of the Churches of Christ Now if this judgement be right are not such persons or Congregations put out of the Kingdome of Christ and put under the power of Satan consequently But thirdly If some brethren rise to a seventh degree and others stay at sixe which have yet such a power over conscience that if they prevaile not the seventh is no way likely to prevaile why should not the Apostles rule quiet us all Phil. 3.15 16. Whereto we have already attained let us walke by the same rule if in any thing you be otherwise minded God will reveale even this unto you if we have attained but to sixe and our Brethren have attained to seven let us walke together lovingly to the sixe if God shall after reveale the seventh we will promise to pray and study in the mean time we shall walke with them in that also why must it needs be now urged with violence so as to divide else and although we hold not the seventh yet there is an ingredient in the sixt that hath in it the strength of the seventh for wherein lies the strength of the seventh above the rest is it not in this that it is the last meanes Christ hath appointed in his Church to work upon the heart this consideration hath much terror it it Now those in the Congregationall way say that this is fully in the sixth wherefore that is as terrible to their consciences as the seventh can be to the consciences of our brethren and that upon the same ground If so what is the difference for this matter more then that which hath beene betwixt many godly and Orthodoxe Divines about the division of the Lords Prayer whether it containe 6. or 7. petitions when those that are for sixe have as much matter in those sixe as those that have seven and those that